Episode 393 - Ghostwatch | the BBC’s 1992 Live Paranormal Investigation

What happens when the BBC turns a haunted house into a live Halloween investigation watched by 11 million people? We’re diving into Ghostwatch, the infamous 1992 broadcast of a family being terrorized by a poltergeist named Pipes. With unexplained knocking, cold spots, scratches, disappearing figures caught on camera, and one family member going into a trance on live TV. The live paranormal investigation spirals completely out of control as the reporters are terrorized, lights explode in the BBC studio and viewers call in to report paranormal events in their own homes during the broadcast. Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited and produced by Jaimi Ryan. Original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone. This is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbor says,

• 0:44Speaker 00

  I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy to layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 1:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I've got mail.

• 1:54Corinne Vien?

  You've got mail?

• 1:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I've got a package for you. It's in my pants.

• 2:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I put a mustache on and I've become a gross man.

• 2:04Corinne Vien?

  It's so funny. I can't like stop staring at your mustache because why did you take me through the decision to get the curly one?

• 2:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I'll take you through the whole decision. Also, hi, everyone.

• 2:13Corinne Vien?

  This is Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 2:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two girls, one ghost.

• 2:16Corinne Vien?

  And it's Halloween.

• 2:21Corinne Vien?

  It's October, and we are your hosts.

• 2:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, yeah. That's Corinne. I'm Sabrina. Did I whisper Two Girls, One Ghost?

• 2:28Corinne Vien?

  I don't know. This is Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 2:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two girls, one ghost. Listen, we've got costumes on. We're entirely different people. We have new personalities.

• 2:36Corinne Vien?

  And then it was made, we were made aware, or you made me aware that we forgot to do the costume contest last year. So this is our formal announcement that it will be happening again this year. And I will still be calling it the annual competition when the trophies are sent and we'll pretend last year didn't happen.

• 2:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's annual. It still happens. We, in our minds, gave out awards last year, so it still exists.

• 3:01Corinne Vien?

  Are you sure we didn't do it?

• 3:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm positive. Yep. But that's okay.

• 3:04Corinne Vien?

  I'm shocked I screwed up on that one.

• 3:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But, um, yeah, so Corinne, you are a Puritan.

• 3:10Corinne Vien?

  1962 Salem Puritan.

• 3:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Are you an accuser or accused?

• 3:15Corinne Vien?

  I thought about it. At first I was going to be an accused, and then I was like, still feels wrong dressing up as a victim, even if it's 400 years later. But I'm also pregnant, so I can't be an accuser. I can't be a 12 year old girl. I also don't want to be that. So I'm just a member of the community.

• 3:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You just watched it all happen and didn't say anything?

• 3:37Corinne Vien?

  I am trying to save myself. I've run off to Danvers, Massachusetts, hiding away.

• 3:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There you go. And I'm the mailman.

• 3:47Corinne Vien?

  We chose historical figures as our theme and you showed up as a mailman.

• 3:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, here's the thing.

• 3:53Corinne Vien?

  I was like, wait, is the theme historical figures or heroes?

• 3:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Historical heroes. Listen, they've been around for a very long time.

• 4:00Corinne Vien?

  That's true.

• 4:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And here's the thing, I have to give a shout out because on Campfire Stories, literally this week, I was like, I still don't really know what I'm doing for this. I have another costume that could have worked for this.

• 4:10Corinne Vien?

  Was it like the last 15 minutes that I missed?

• 4:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 4:12Corinne Vien?

  You guys secretly convened about a costume?

• 4:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The second you left, I said, hey, can people help me figure out my costume in the chat only so that I don't, in case Corinne goes back and watches that you wouldn't see it. But yeah, Morgan said, be a postal worker. And I said, that's genius. How did I not think about that? And then as I was picking my costume, I decided I wanted to be a male postal worker and be a man for the day. And I'm gonna manspread the entire episode.

• 4:38Corinne Vien?

  Good. I'm doing the same thing. But I also can't get my legs together at the current moment.

• 4:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is this manspreading?

• 4:45Corinne Vien?

  That is more flexibility than I think postmen have in their hips, so.

• 4:52Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, that looks good.

• 4:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What's up?

• 4:54Corinne Vien?

  You remind me so much, like dressed with this mustache, of some comedian, like some actor, but I cannot.

• 5:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's my doppelganger.

• 5:03Corinne Vien?

  Someone else. Let us know.

• 5:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My giving. But yeah, postal workers forever will be my one true love and admiration.

• 5:12Corinne Vien?

  Oh, shoot. I thought it beeped.

• 5:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It does. I think we just have to set it up. And now Noah has a new toy.

• 5:20Corinne Vien?

  He's gonna love this.

• 5:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You can't wait.

• 5:22Corinne Vien?

  Whip it around.

• 5:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I rode it for a little bit.

• 5:24Corinne Vien?

  You were sitting on it as I walked in.

• 5:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But hi, everyone.

• 5:28Corinne Vien?

  Hello.

• 5:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So our costumes might not be very scary. And I actually don't know. Is your topic scary?

• 5:35Corinne Vien?

  It can feel pretty scary at moments.

• 5:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hold on to your butts.

• 5:39Corinne Vien?

  We're going to be transported back to Halloween night, October 31st, 1992, the year before. We were cooking.

• 5:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I wasn't cooking yet. You were probably cooking.

• 5:48Corinne Vien?

  Oh, wait.

• 5:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I started cooking November 27th. I don't know. I was a Thanksgiving baby. I don't know the exact date, but I was around Thanksgiving.

• 5:57Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so then I must have been.

• 5:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, you might be right after.

• 6:01Corinne Vien?

  I think I must have been in November conception. Anyway.

• 6:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anyway.

• 6:04Corinne Vien?

  We were thought maybe in our parents' minds. It's Halloween night. We are in Britain. Families are settling in for the evening. Kids are coming down from their sugar highs. And BBC, the most trusted broadcaster in the country, is about to do something that has never been done before. 11 million people turned on their televisions expecting, I don't know, some little spooky treat, some little fun segment from BBC. But instead, what they got was 90 minutes that would haunt them for the rest of their lives. And the BBC would spend the next decade trying to bury it.

• 6:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 6:44Corinne Vien?

  I like already have chills. It's so wild. Okay, so this case is going to begin with the early family. Pam, she's a single mom, and she has two daughters Suzanne and Kim. And Suzanne, I'll probably refer to her as Suzie because in the segment, which I watched, she's always Suzie.

• 7:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  With subtitles.

• 7:03Corinne Vien?

  I told Sabrina, I rented it because you can re-watch it. And I rented it on Amazon Prime and the audio didn't work, so I had to watch the whole thing with just subtitles, which is hard to watch a spooky segment with no sound. But I will say, the last 15 minutes, like just with subtitles, my heart was racing. I was scared.

• 7:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, you said they're trying to bury it, so is it purposefully without sound?

• 7:28Corinne Vien?

  I don't know, but like why let it even be available to rent it this time?

• 7:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Good question.

• 7:33Corinne Vien?

  Anyway, okay, so the whole segment is about the early family. Pam, single mom. Suzie and Kim are her daughters. She's like more recently widowed.

• 7:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 7:43Corinne Vien?

  They live in an ordinary house on an ordinary street in Nort Holt. Pam works, the girls go to school, they eat dinner at the kitchen table, normal people, normal life, except for the ghost in their house.

• 7:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Could be normal for some.

• 7:58Corinne Vien?

  Could be. But this activity is like pretty, it gets pretty extreme and it's pretty constant. So there's knocking on walls, there's cold spots that appear for no reason, and there's weird sounds coming from the pipes. That's like basically how it started. And the mom, Pam, had said something about like, oh, it's just the pipes. And so then the girls started calling the entity Pipes. So now when something happens, they just call it Pipes. Yeah, it's Pipes. Pipes is coming for us. Pipes is here.

• 8:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, when you put it like Pipes is coming for us, that's horrifying.

• 8:28Corinne Vien?

  So for a while, the early family was experiencing these hauntings by themselves. But on October 31st, 1992, the BBC sent a crew to the early family home to conduct a 90-minute broadcast. A live paranormal investigation on the nation's most trusted station.

• 8:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  How do we do that today? We'll host a live investigation with the news.

• 8:53Corinne Vien?

  About it and that being an idea. And I'll tell you later on in the segment what their budget was. And you're gonna say, oh, never mind.

• 9:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, we've already said, oh, never mind because of how expensive it is.

• 9:04Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, the budget that we had in mind is not the budget that it takes to do something like this.

• 9:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  1992, too.

• 9:09Corinne Vien?

  This is 1992. Okay, so now the BBC is bringing in cameras and 11 million viewers are walking into the home that is basically slated as the most haunted house in Britain. And what unfolded on live television, that Halloween night would be one of the most disturbing documented hauntings, all witnessed by people like you and me, just sitting there on Halloween night, trying to like enjoy a little spooky segment, curious to see what would happen from the comfort of our own homes. And this would be BBC's Ghost Watch.

• 9:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ghost Watch. What a good name.

• 9:39Corinne Vien?

  Right? Okay, so let me tell you a little bit about the haunted house and why the early family was chosen for this investigation by the BBC. So Nort Holt is a suburb of the London borough of early Ealing. I don't know what I'm saying, but that's what the internet told me. I've never been to the UK.

• 9:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, that's surprising, actually. I think you've traveled too much.

• 10:01Corinne Vien?

  No, I haven't. I've only been to Ireland. Which is not a part of the UK, right?

• 10:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not anymore, I don't think.

• 10:07Corinne Vien?

  It's Scotland, Northern Ireland, England, Wales. Don't quiz us.

• 10:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm from 1692.

• 10:14Corinne Vien?

  We hardly know.

• 10:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know anything.

• 10:16Corinne Vien?

  We hardly know American geography.

• 10:20Corinne Vien?

  My bread might be poisoned. Okay. But I'll just say that this is like a very normal place. There's normal houses, normal neighborhoods. It's not the place that you would see a house and be like, oh, that's a spooky house. That's the haunted house on the street. Like, it's very ordinary. Anyone could live there. So already, people are seeing themselves in this family and in this home when presented on TV. So it's like, anyone could be the next haunted house, right? So the early family, they had been living in this home for years when the phenomena started.

• 10:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I am curious, because you said she was recently widowed. Like, did it, the timeline line up to when they lost the dad and husband?

• 10:58Corinne Vien?

  You know what? I'm not sure.

• 10:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 10:59Corinne Vien?

  I don't think they, like, specifically said anything about that. And they didn't say how long ago he had passed. But the kids are, like, younger.

• 11:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 11:09Corinne Vien?

  So I assumed it was more recent.

• 11:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 11:11Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so they're in this house for a few years before they start noticing the strange sounds. There's knocking in the walls. It's very rhythmic. It's very persistent. And it's also impossible to locate, which is why she said it's the pipes and the kids named the entity, the pipes.

• 11:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Pipes is coming for us.

• 11:26Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. It's an old home. It happens. There's, like, weird sounds. She doesn't jump. Pam, the mom, does not jump to the conclusion that it's ghosts.

• 11:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But definitely weird if you've lived there for many years. It's not like, oh, this is a new house. These are like quirks about the house. This is like, we've lived here a long time. What's all of a sudden-

• 11:41Corinne Vien?

  Like, it's a water heater shot? Like, do we need a new water heater or something? There's weird noises.

• 11:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is also horrifying.

• 11:47Corinne Vien?

  That's true. So Suzie, who's the older of the two daughters, Suzie starts to witness some strange activity in the home. And it's largely when she's alone. So at first, it's like, objects are starting to move on their own. And nothing is thrown at her or harming her, but it's just, like, unsettling and spooky, right? Like, she's getting scared. And both of the kids, whenever something happens, they're, they're not just, like, sitting there witnessing it. Like, they get up screaming and, like, run for their mom. So Pam is very aware that things are starting to pick up.

• 12:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 12:16Corinne Vien?

  Soon, Suzie notices some cold spots in the house as well. And things are happening more frequently. And she is, basically, Suzie's, like, mostly the witness in the early days, though everyone comes to have some reactions. The mom, Pam, would find Suzie every once in a while, just, like, having these sort of trances. Like, almost like, the way it was described, I was like, this sounds like an absent seizure if you had never-

• 12:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 12:43Corinne Vien?

  -known the context of all of the other, like, hauntings leading up to it. But basically, like, she would find Suzie, just, like, staring blankly, unable to be, like, changed or moved for thirty, sixty seconds at a time.

• 12:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That reminds me kind of of the Hinsdale house. And the one daughter who also would, like, go into trances and-

• 13:00Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 13:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  -not remember anything.

• 13:02Corinne Vien?

  No. There's a lot of connections and similarities between, I feel like, a lot of the big poltergeist cases and this one.

• 13:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because there's, they all follow a very similar pattern.

• 13:12Corinne Vien?

  They do. I actually can't remember if I even wrote this in here, but Suzie was also getting scratched. The younger daughter, Kim, didn't necessarily go through all the things that her older sister did, but she was definitely creeped out. She could feel the energy of the home. She was really spooked. She didn't want to go into certain rooms. She never wanted to be upstairs alone at night. The two girls shared a bedroom, so at least they had that. But like, there were still a bunch of, like, creepy, creepy things. She told her mom that she felt like she was always being watched in the home, which she was. She was being watched. So Pam was not sure what to do at this time. So she actually reached out to a local paranormal investigator group.

• 13:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Also another, check the box of things that happen.

• 13:50Corinne Vien?

  Exactly. And she gets a response back. And they're like, okay, we're happy to come, set up sometime in the house. We'll document anything that goes on. And that is exactly what happened. So they brought equipment, they took notes, and they declared, yeah, there is something unexplainable happening here. Like, we don't understand how this, like, energy is manifesting and what's going on. So I don't think they, like, put a stamp that said, this is a ghost, but-

• 14:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But they basically were like, there's no rational reason we can find.

• 14:16Corinne Vien?

  Totally. Okay, so somewhat of a relief now for the family to know that, like, other people are agreeing with them, that something's happening. But what do you do? Like, how do you get help? The investigators aren't changing things. They're not fixing things or getting rid of this poltergeist. In fact, the opposite happened. Because the group had come in, another, like, check the box. The spirit got riled up and things got worse. Things intensified once that group left. And this is pretty concerning, because fifteen years earlier was the case of the Enfield poltergeist, which was a very famous case.

• 14:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which I covered, I think it was at a live show.

• 14:53Corinne Vien?

  Oh, did you do it at a live show?

• 14:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think so.

• 14:55Corinne Vien?

  You should re-cover it again.

• 14:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I think we ended up releasing that live show recording.

• 15:00Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 15:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 15:01Corinne Vien?

  But still, it would be like a shortened version of the story-

• 15:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's true.

• 15:04Corinne Vien?

  -for the live show.

• 15:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Could we do it?

• 15:06Corinne Vien?

  But yeah, so this was like a huge case in British history. And it had a lot of similarities in terms of, like, a single mom. Because I think the Enfield poltergeist case, I think it was a single mom with four kids. But it was like, the same sort of thing. So this is on, like, the back of people's minds.

• 15:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They were nervous.

• 15:20Corinne Vien?

  The back of Pam's mind, right? So she's like, I don't know what to do here. So around this time is actually when the BBC, somehow, the people who are in charge of, like, booking cases and booking interesting people or whatever, they catch wind of what's going on with the early family. And they approach Pam about her family being the subject of this live broadcast. Like, can they use their home for this special that they've never done before? It could be super interesting. It's gonna be on Halloween night. There's gonna be a bunch of people there. Like, everyone will be safe. And she's like, yeah, I want answers. I want this to be documented. I want people to know what's happening. I want to be believed. I'm scared.

• 15:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 15:56Corinne Vien?

  Come in, sure. So the BBC books the early family, and that is what they do on Halloween night. BBC sent, well, they didn't send four people, but like, four of the regulars from BBC were a part of this investigation.

• 16:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like journalists?

• 16:11Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The news reporters?

• 16:13Corinne Vien?

  Exactly. So like, the personalities that people were familiar with. Michael Parkinson was one of the most respected journalists and presenters in Britain, and he was the anchor. So he was sitting in the studio. And it is really interesting, because when I was watching the segment, like, the beginning of it, they, they clip so quickly between, like, because they're setting everything up. So it's like an interview with the family, and then it's another person on the street, and it's, it's like-

• 16:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, they also only have ninety minutes. They've gotta get to the investigation.

• 16:39Corinne Vien?

  Exactly. So he's the one that's kind of, like, running the show in the studio and introducing people and, like, being like, okay, now let's jump to here. Let's see what's happening back at the house. Let's go to the streets. Let's, we have a caller or whatever.

• 16:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's the conductor.

• 16:51Corinne Vien?

  He's the conductor. Sarah Green, she's a beloved presenter. She was on a, a children's show, Blue Peter.

• 16:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's what I call my package.

• 17:03Corinne Vien?

  We are so sorry, US Postal Service. Thank you for your service.

• 17:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Listen, I love, I love my post office workers. I love my, I literally love the USPS so much.

• 17:13Corinne Vien?

  You do.

• 17:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's just, when I get a costume on it, something happens. And I am no longer me, and I become-

• 17:20Corinne Vien?

  You say whatever comes to mind.

• 17:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I become-

• 17:22Corinne Vien?

  Unsolicited.

• 17:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A Blue Peter, I don't know.

• 17:24Corinne Vien?

  Become my Blue Peter. Oh. Okay, but Sarah Green, so she said that she, oh, God, I'm trying to remember her story. It was like, she had had an encounter before, or like, had some sort of weird paranormal thing happen to her, where she was eager to basically volunteer for this. So like, not the normal personality that you would have thought was slated for this.

• 17:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 17:44Corinne Vien?

  But she was like, no, no, no, I love the paranormal. I'm a huge believer in ghosts. I've had my own paranormal experience before. Like, I want to be the one on the ground in the house.

• 17:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That there's so many of us out there.

• 17:54Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, she's part of the children's programming.

• 17:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Least suspecting people are also-

• 17:58Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 17:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fans of the ghosts.

• 17:59Corinne Vien?

  I also feel like she was a good person to send, because there were two young-

• 18:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  True.

• 18:02Corinne Vien?

  -girls there. So like, she has experience making kids feel comfortable.

• 18:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 18:07Corinne Vien?

  And she's got a really warm energy. Okay, and then there's Mike Smith, who's a well-known BBC radio presenter. And he's managing the phone lines, because the BBC's set up a phone line for people to call into the switchboard with their own ghost stories or with comments about what's happening.

• 18:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Amazing.

• 18:22Corinne Vien?

  It's so cool. So like, they have, it's in the first, like, five minutes, they have the number on the bottom of the screen for people to call.

• 18:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 18:29Corinne Vien?

  So he's manning, manning those calls. Well, I think there's a shit ton of people making calls, but he's, he's presenting the ones that are being pushed forward. And then finally, Craig Charles, he's very, like, apparently, he's from, like, some science fiction comedy called Red Dwarf or something. So I think he was like an actor.

• 18:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 18:49Corinne Vien?

  But he was very enthusiastic the whole time and seemingly unaware of the projection of events.

• 18:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 18:55Corinne Vien?

  Like, how things, or projection, progression of events.

• 18:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay. He's just happy to be there.

• 19:01Corinne Vien?

  Happy to be there.

• 19:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's a personality hire.

• 19:02Corinne Vien?

  He's sent, yes, he's the personality hire, which makes sense, because he's sent to the street. He's interviewing the family at first, and then he interviews, like, bystanders and people who are just, like, gathered around to, like, watch. Because it's kind of a commotion, having the BBC-

• 19:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Totally.

• 19:18Corinne Vien?

  -post it up at someone's house on Halloween night. So these are big names sent out by the BBC, all taking part of this investigation. So this was not just some little fun Halloween night treat. This was the BBC taking things seriously, or so everyone believed.

• 19:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fall feels like the perfect time for a reset, new routines, better habits. If your hair needs a reset, like mine does and like Corinne's postpartum does, let me tell you about Nutriful. Nutriful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand, and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. And now the Nutriful Women's Formula has been upgraded to its most advanced version yet. It's 100% vegan, biotin free, and comes in smaller capsule size to make your daily routine easier. What's great is they have multiple different formulas. They also have a men's formula. So whether you're just starting your hair health journey or you've been taking Nutriful for years, this update means you can now get their most advanced support yet.

• 20:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months. Right now, Nutriful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit nutriful.com and enter promo code TGOG. That's nutriful.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code TGOG. Therapy has been such a life-changing experience for me, and I just really advocate for it. I think everyone should have access to mental health. And I know that it's not always easy, and sometimes it feels overwhelming or it just feels too expensive, which is why I really love Rula. Because finding a therapist is hard enough, then finding one who takes your insurance is even harder. But Rula does things differently.

• 20:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They partner with over 100 insurance plans, making the average co-pay just $15 per session from real licensed professionals at a price that actually makes sense. Plus, they partner with a network of over 15,000 therapists and psychiatrists nationwide, which helps you find your personalized solution and the right therapist for you. Rula makes it really easy, and appointments are available as soon as tomorrow. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com/tgog to get started. That's R-U-L-A dot com slash T-G-O-G. You deserve mental health care that works with you and not against your budget.

• 21:41Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone, this is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced, government-sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe,

• 22:24Speaker 00

  while your neighbor says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

• 22:42Corinne Vien?

  So it is now 9:25 PM on Halloween night, 1992, and the broadcast began. Michael Parkinson welcomed viewers, explained the setup, and the BBC crew was live inside a reportedly haunted house north of London. Phone lines were open. Viewers could call in with their own experiences and their own questions. And it certainly had the look and feel of like BBC news coverage. And I feel like it's in part because of who was anchoring it. He had a lot of like seriousness about him.

• 23:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Very real immersive, feels like you're there.

• 23:12Corinne Vien?

  Totally.

• 23:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  On the scene.

• 23:14Corinne Vien?

  Yes, they go inside the house. And I'll say, the entire investigation, all of the lights are on in the house.

• 23:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is wild that it's that spooky.

• 23:24Corinne Vien?

  It becomes so scary, but all of the lights are on.

• 23:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I do appreciate that.

• 23:29Corinne Vien?

  And as they're like moving about, you can see how long the cords are from the cameras trying to like trail and follow them room to room. So it is a pretty wild setup, and it's like very impressive that it even was able to be set up. So inside the house, Sarah Green introduces viewers to the early family. She walks through the layout of the house, shows them equipment that could be used. And they pan to someone from the, what is it? It's like the Society of Psychical Research. Yeah, someone from there had brought in equipment. And they're walking through the paranormal equipment that they're gonna use. And one of the items that he takes her through is the infrared camera, which will come up later.

• 24:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 24:12Corinne Vien?

  In kind of a scary way.

• 24:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Are we gonna see Pipes coming for them?

• 24:15Corinne Vien?

  Kinda, maybe. But all to say, like, there was some science, like they were explaining kind of like the science and like how things work behind the equipment, and that this was being taken seriously. Every time they cut to Craig Charles out on the street, people are keeping it light, chatty, normal. So it's kind of like a nice reprieve every time it gets cut over there. So Sarah Green talks to the family a little bit more about what's going on. And one of the daughters, Kim, explains that Pipes lives under the closet.

• 24:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Poor Kim.

• 24:44Corinne Vien?

  Or like in the closet under the stairs. And he looks really disgusting. And she's like, well, how do you know? She's like, well, I looked in a crack and I, like the crack of that, because there's, so the closet, when they go down to like see the closet, there's a board across it where the mom has nailed it shut.

• 25:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because of what she's seen through that slit.

• 25:02Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but there's tiny little slit, like a sliver. And Kim says that she looked in it one time, like squinted in and saw Pipes standing in there, looking right back at her.

• 25:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So they're very disturbed.

• 25:14Corinne Vien?

  And she's like, oh, wait, I drew a picture of what I saw. I can show you.

• 25:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Kim?

• 25:18Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, Kim.

• 25:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 25:19Corinne Vien?

  And I don't know the ages. I would guess Kim is like eight.

• 25:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 25:24Corinne Vien?

  And Suzie's maybe like 10.

• 25:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So they're young.

• 25:27Corinne Vien?

  They're young. So she brings, she like walks over to like the living room or something and opens up a cabinet and pulls out a drawing that she made. And it's very much a child's drawing, but like it's this dark figure that has a lot of like blood around it and on it. So it's very, very creepy.

• 25:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yikes.

• 25:45Corinne Vien?

  And then there's the, a notebook from the older daughter, Suzie, that Pam discusses how like she was very concerned looking through the notebook because there was a lot of things scribbled in it, like die, baby, and like darker.

• 26:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like things a 10-year-old shouldn't be thinking about, let alone writing in their journal.

• 26:04Corinne Vien?

  And Suzie didn't really have an explanation for what she was writing or why.

• 26:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which could also be like a 10-year-old not wanting to admit it and like feeling like they're being punished.

• 26:14Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 26:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And questioned for something that like they're clearly, they're saying it's a weird thing that she did.

• 26:19Corinne Vien?

  True, totally. But there's a lot that has happened to everyone in the family now where they're like, okay, something is definitely happening. So like, part of the reason that the closet was covered was not just because the youngest daughter, Kim, saw something. It's because one night Pam, the mom, was going into the closet. So like when her husband had been alive, I think he had done a lot in the closet and kind of used it like for tools or like different things. So he spent a lot of time under there. They never did, but after he passed, she started keeping different like documents and things that were important to the family in the closet beneath the stairs. And she goes in there one night to grab something, and the door slams behind her and locks her in. And her daughters are screaming that Pipes is here, Pipes has come for us. And she said that she-

• 27:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's horrifying. That is out of a horror movie.

• 27:05Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, oh, it's very like Sixth Sense, too. But she says she could feel the presence of some male entity and like feel it breathing on her. And I'm trying to remember how she described its breath, but it was like a really terrible odor had filled the air.

• 27:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, it's really unsettling.

• 27:24Corinne Vien?

  She was super freaked.

• 27:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Super freaked.

• 27:26Corinne Vien?

  This is the-

• 27:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She's some freak guy.

• 27:29Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Okay. I had to finish it. I couldn't not, yeah.

• 27:37Corinne Vien?

  This is the setup. They have 90 minutes of airtime to see if something might happen in this house. The early family was experiencing hauntings constantly. So you would think that other viewers might be lucky enough to catch something. And the answer is yes, things started happening. And at first, it starts a little bit slowly. It's like comments about watches failing or like temperature changes, like things like that.

• 28:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it's people who are doing the investigation saying that they're experiencing these things?

• 28:05Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 28:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, okay. So there's nothing like visible yet? It's a kind of like just talking about what's happening?

• 28:10Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And like things were pretty light in the house at first. Like they're bobbing for apples, they're playing board games, they're like doing things with the kids. It is a Halloween celebration with Sarah and the family there. And then as soon as something might happen, they're like, quick, like let's run and like try to capture the noise or whatever. And so I would say like the better first half of this segment is a lot of the presenter back in the studio presenting the calls that are coming in with people's own ghost stories. And also there is a, I think she's like a psychic medium or like some sort of expert. I wrote it down, we'll get to it.

• 28:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 28:45Corinne Vien?

  But she's providing a lot of commentary as like what could potentially be happening. And is someone who I think had worked with the family before, prior to this.

• 28:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 28:54Corinne Vien?

  So one of the calls that they get in the studio is from a man who said that he has intel on the history of the house, something that they hadn't discussed on the BBC, and he was wondering if they knew about this. He says he knows a man had died in this house. This man was named Raymond Tunstall, and he lived alone in the home for years. And his behavior became increasingly erratic. He isolated himself, he ended up killing cats, like just all of this stuff before he himself died in the house. And it took quite some time for anyone to discover that he had passed.

• 29:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting, okay.

• 29:27Corinne Vien?

  People who are watching are starting to wonder like if this could be the spirit, if this is Pipes, like this guy who lived there? Or if there's something dark that has always been stalking people?

• 29:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Haunted that guy and made him go kind of crazy.

• 29:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 29:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 29:41Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my God, I forgot to say one of the craziest parts of the whole thing.

• 29:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 29:45Corinne Vien?

  In the first five minutes, they pull a clip from one of the investigations that had filmed the kids sleeping. And you see the little girls like get into their bed and like say goodnight and turn off their light. And as the light turns off and like the cameras start to adjust, you see the figure of a man standing in front of the curtain by the window. And like this is the first five minutes and they present this, but you don't actually notice it at first because you're just like watching this clip of like, oh, yeah, investigators have been in there before, like here's a clip of whatever. And I think it was because there were some like noises or something. And so the girls woke up later and were like screaming for their mom. And multiple viewers called into the phone line and were like, did you guys see?

• 30:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The man.

• 30:28Corinne Vien?

  The man that you just like showed 10 minutes earlier in that clip? And then they like pull the clip back up and they're replaying it and then at first you see it and then they rewind to play it again and you can't see it anymore. When they replay it. So already things were like creepy from the, from the get go. I can't believe I forgot to like.

• 30:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is that not, it's, is it footage of the BBC filmed or is it footage that another investigative group filmed?

• 30:51Corinne Vien?

  Investigative group had filmed it.

• 30:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's weird that it existed then it didn't.

• 30:55Corinne Vien?

  I like can't really remember because also I watched with subtitles.

• 30:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. No sound.

• 30:59Corinne Vien?

  A little bit tough. Another call reports in that there was this like serial killer, this woman who would like drown babies that lived near, not in the early house, but like near the early house back in the day.

• 31:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it's also hard because these people are calling in live. There's no real way to go fact check house records and see any of these things.

• 31:21Corinne Vien?

  Two.

• 31:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Are correct.

• 31:22Corinne Vien?

  There's a lot of lore, but it's adding to the atmosphere that people are like really freaked out.

• 31:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Making for great TV.

• 31:28Corinne Vien?

  Yes. So theories are growing, activity is ramping up. And by the time the BBC's broadcast is halfway into their investigation, viewers are no longer passively watching. They are super engaged. This is not what they were expecting, but like things are happening live. There's a phone number to call and so the phone lines are now overwhelmed.

• 31:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Be listening to our podcast. I think more people would like it.

• 31:49Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Yeah. 11 million people watched this.

• 31:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow.

• 31:53Corinne Vien?

  In one country. So people are calling from all over Britain. Some people wanted to share their own experiences. Some people were worried about the safety of the early family and the BBC presenters and people who were on site. Some people were, were reporting that now as they were watching, things started happening in their own homes. They started hearing knockings, like the pipes were starting to go crazy.

• 32:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Pipes is coming for you.

• 32:15Corinne Vien?

  So yeah, it seems like it was affecting people through their screens and in their own homes. Like they were opening themselves up to something. And then Suzie suddenly goes into a trance.

• 32:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Live.

• 32:26Corinne Vien?

  Yep. She's like in her room under the covers and her little sister goes running down and screaming like, what's wrong with Suzie? What's wrong with Suzie? So everyone runs up concerned. And they pull back the covers and she has scratch marks all over her face and she's just completely still and they're like zooming in on her face and she's just like not blinking, just totally in a trance.

• 32:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Man, poor girl.

• 32:47Corinne Vien?

  I know.

• 32:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I can't believe this is like a real thing that existed. We've never heard of it.

• 32:51Corinne Vien?

  There's so many cases like that where I feel like.

• 32:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Even last week.

• 32:54Corinne Vien?

  And Pam is kind of scaring people because she's also like, this is not the normal trance that I, I'm used to what saying like, things seem to be getting worse and escalating. So things are getting scary. The investigators in the room are pretty shaken. Sarah Green from BBC who's inside the house is visibly frightened. And we're now an hour into this 90 minute segment. So a lot has happened. People's eyes are glued onto the, the live stream of this.

• 33:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm glued into this episode. Yeah.

• 33:18Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And activity continues to amplify. The parapsychology expert who's in the studio begins to raise concerns that they were actually witnessing not just a ghost hunt, but unknowingly, given the amount of energy everyone was putting towards it and all the viewers, people calling in, people just like zeroing in and focusing, that they had accidentally created the largest seance in history. That like we were all participating in a seance in that moment, which freaked people out even more.

• 33:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Uh, but I'm, it's not wrong. And also like everyone giving this spirit more energy.

• 33:58Corinne Vien?

  Right. Everyone's channeling their energy.

• 34:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And wanting to watch something happen.

• 34:02Corinne Vien?

  Exactly. They're like riling, riling it up.

• 34:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That was the demon's best day ever.

• 34:07Corinne Vien?

  Seriously. Yeah. So perhaps the BBC inadvertently created the largest seance in history. Maybe.

• 34:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Maybe.

• 34:13Corinne Vien?

  And pipes is feeding on it and pipes is growing stronger. Michael Parkinson's, who was back in the studio, pushed back and was like, okay, let's keep our composure. Like, I'm not sure about that. We're not trying to host a seance here. This is just an investigation. Let's cut back to the early's. Let's see what's happening in the house. So now the cameras are at the early house and they are capturing something off. Things are like escalating and becoming quite freaky. They can't find Suzie. Suzie is screaming that something is wrong, that it's here, that he's hurting her, he's attacking her. They are running through the house trying to find her. The cameras cut because there's like a, kind of like an aerial camera in every single, like in the corner of every single room. And they keep cutting like to all of these different rooms looking for her. You see Sarah like running and trying to look underneath

• 34:56Corinne Vien?

  all of the beds and everything for Suzie. Finally they locate.

• 35:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Didn't they have her at first? She just disappeared?

• 35:03Corinne Vien?

  They were, she like eventually, well, I don't know, because it's like the segment between like when she was in a trance and then.

• 35:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh my gosh.

• 35:09Corinne Vien?

  So you don't, you're not getting the full like minute by minute live stream. It's just like, you get what happens when it cuts back to see what's happening in the house. So people are frantically looking for her. Finally they find her. She's locked inside of that.

• 35:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Closet?

• 35:24Corinne Vien?

  Closet.

• 35:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Under the stairs? Nope.

• 35:26Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And she's screaming that it's hurting her, that pipes is there with her. And they're like Suzie, Suzie, like we're, we're going to get you out. You're going to be okay. And you can kind of see like everyone's frantic. So the cameraman too.

• 35:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 35:36Corinne Vien?

  The cameraman actually, it's like kind of unclear what happens because it seems like he's dropping his.

• 35:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is very Blair Witch Project.

• 35:45Corinne Vien?

  It is. There's like a bunch of commotion. You can kind of see Sarah's legs. You see the door open. It seems like there's a figure slumped in the door. And then all of a sudden the cameraman is injured. Like he has blood coming from his head. And Sarah runs over and is like, you're okay, you're okay. And they're trying to get him out. Back in the studio, they're wa- watching this. And I'm pretty sure it's the guy who's in charge of the phone lines. It's like, oh my God, they call 911. He rushes over too. Because now someone's injured from their crew.

• 36:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is so dramatic.

• 36:11Corinne Vien?

  It's so dramatic. And then it like cuts. It's like, there's no, there's like no signal. Yeah. And then they come back on and you're like in the studio and they're all freaked out, but they're trying to be super calm. And like not show that something is going horribly wrong. And so they're trying to like walk through other things and like la di da, and this happens and this happens. And then eventually they get the signal back at the house again. It shows the two kids and.

• 36:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I feel like something bad is going to come like, or I feel like there's something that's going to be revealed to me and it's going to make me really upset.

• 36:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. It's, it shows the two early daughters and Sarah sitting around the table playing board games. So you're like, wait, what just happened in the five minutes?

• 36:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This guy was just bleeding?

• 36:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Well, you do, you get, do get from like the street view. At some point you can see him being cared for and like taken off.

• 37:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then like.

• 37:07Corinne Vien?

  And the guy that's like, oh, the street reporter's like, wait, what's supposed to be happening? Yeah. So that's why it's so weird. Cause then it cuts to, and then the presenter in the studio is like, oh, well, it looks like everyone's safe and having fun. We're not really sure what that was. And then the, um, parapsychologist or whoever was like brought in is like, that's a clip from earlier. That's not the live broadcast. And then I can't.

• 37:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, I have chills.

• 37:28Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I can't remember exactly. Cause so this is like the last 15 minutes and so much is happening. And I can't remember exactly how they cut to again, but I think like they're trying to get the live feedback. And they realized they can't get the live feedback from the actual cameras, but they get it from the infrared camera. The infrared camera is hooked up and it's the only one that's still connecting. So they tune into it and as they do, it's so freaky because.

• 37:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Getting chills.

• 37:53Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 37:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thinking about it. I have like full.

• 37:55Corinne Vien?

  Because the infrared is already scary enough and it looks like the house is pitch black and you just see the shape of Sarah walking and like calling out for one of the cameramen who has the infrared camera. And she's like reaching out and they're reaching for each other in the darkness, like trying to locate each other, which is so freaky. They grab onto each other and they're like, okay, good. Like we have each other. And then they keep moving through the house and eventually like the infrared kind of like flips off. And you see all of the strings that have the like apples or like donuts or whatever hanging from their game before are swinging in the house. And then you hear Suzie again because she's still in the closet.

• 38:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What? Why? How is she still in the closet?

• 38:32Corinne Vien?

  The commotion, like, I don't know, the commotion of everything that happened when the cameraman was injured and blah, blah, blah, whatever. The door shut again. She's screaming out, they go to get Suzie. Sarah gets the door open and she starts.

• 38:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two figures?

• 38:45Corinne Vien?

  She starts crawling inside.

• 38:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 38:47Corinne Vien?

  And say, I got you, I got you. You're okay. You're safe. And all of a sudden just gets, yeah. And the cameraman's holding on to her too. Cause he's scared. So like, they're still like holding hands, basically.

• 38:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is this infrared still?

• 38:58Corinne Vien?

  No, it's like flipped, it's flipped off now that they're, I think they were like in the basement or something, like when they found each other. It's like flipped off. So you're seeing her, but it's like still grainy and the coloration is weird. And she's crawling and the cameraman's holding her. And then all of a sudden she's yanked and he can't keep hold of her. She gets released and the door slam shut behind her so aggressively. And then everything goes black again. You can hear everyone screaming in the studio. Lights are bursting overhead in the studio and people are running. Like things are falling off of the tables. It is absolute commotion.

• 39:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I need to watch this.

• 39:32Corinne Vien?

  The presenter who, why can't I remember his name? Like Michael or whatever his name is. He's trying to be like the calm one. He's like, okay, things are happening in the studio. Lights are, are blasting. We're getting some surge of energy. We're not really sure what's happening. People seem to be leaving.

• 39:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. People seem to be leaving as they're like screaming, running away.

• 39:50Corinne Vien?

  Literally. And then he starts walking around and he's like, I'm not really sure what to do because I don't even know if any of these cameras are still on. All the cameramen have left, like everyone's gone and he's just kind of roaming around. You see like parts of his body because you're just getting like certain views because he doesn't know where to look.

• 40:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 40:06Corinne Vien?

  And then all of a sudden he goes up to the camera and he is possessed. And you only know that he's possessed because he starts speaking in these weird riddles and saying these strange things, which you had seen one time before in the broadcast, which was presented very early on when they were showing footage from previous investigations where they thought Suzie had been possessed and was like speaking and saying weird things.

• 40:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And so he's saying the exact same thing.

• 40:37Corinne Vien?

  And now he's saying the same things and he's just standing in front of the camera. You don't even see his full face. It's just like his mouth there and he's speaking in these creepy ass riddles. And then 90 minutes are over. Next segment begins. So people are fucking losing it, right? Like they're.

• 40:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm biting my tongue. I'm going to wait until, I'm going to wait to say what I want to say.

• 40:56Corinne Vien?

  Viewers are at home horrified, traumatized. Children had been watching this. Within one hour, the BBC's switchboard received 30,000 calls, concerned calls about what was going on. Cause they were like, what the hell did we just witness? Are people okay?

• 41:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  BBC's ratings were like through the roof that night.

• 41:13Corinne Vien?

  Oh my God. Yeah. Every newspaper in Britain covered it the next morning. The entire nation was in shock. 11 million people focused their collective attention and fear on a single point on Halloween night of 1992 for 90 minutes, possibly creating the largest seance in history and watched as their beloved BBC personalities were tormented live on television.

• 41:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then possessed and then there's no answer.

• 41:35Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 41:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Left wondering.

• 41:36Corinne Vien?

  And people were experiencing things in their own homes. And now everyone's like, oh my God, it's the Poltergeist on the loose. Did it just escape and break through? It clearly got into the studio.

• 41:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Where are the Ghostbusters when you need them?

• 41:45Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 41:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If you have a dog, chances are you're obsessed with your dog. And if anyone gets being dog obsessed, it's Ollie. Ollie delivers fresh, human-grade food in five drool-worthy flavors. Ollie's fresh recipes are developed by real chefs with gut-friendly ingredients that support better digestion, energy, skin health, and poops. With flavors like fresh beef with sweet potatoes or fresh turkey with blueberries. And my brother's dog, Jackson, is a very, very picky eater. But with Ollie, he is a clean bull pup. And it's amazing because from the moment you start your subscription with Ollie, everything is tailored to your dog. Their meals are perfectly proportioned. Plus, Ollie offers health tracking in their app so you can keep up with your pup's health and see the difference the food is making in their life. They also have on-demand vet expert support for everyday questions.

• 42:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to Ollie.com slash T G O G. Tell them all about your dog and use code T G O G to get 70% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus, it's risk-free with their obsession guarantee. That's O L L I E dot com slash T G O G and enter code T G O G to get 70% off your first box. Ollie, feed the obsession.

• 43:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone, this is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced, government-sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe,

• 43:43Speaker 00

  while your neighbor says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at AU dot org slash Getting Better. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

• 44:01Speaker 04

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces. So I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece, and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 44:31Corinne Vien?

  But here's what viewers did not know. None of this was real.

• 44:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I had a feeling, and I'm so upset by it. But also, I really appreciate the drama.

• 44:41Corinne Vien?

  I will say-

• 44:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  None of it, not a single thing was real.

• 44:43Corinne Vien?

  No. The first 15 minutes of the segment, you're like, well, of course, this isn't real. Like, the way that they cut, there's no lag time, like, it's very- But then towards the end, because of how chaotic it is and how confusing it is and how communication breaks down between, like, where things are supposed to go, it becomes believable. So you get lost. The early family did not exist. While the exterior of the house existed, a lot of this was a set.

• 45:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it wasn't, like, pre-filmed?

• 45:10Corinne Vien?

  Uh huh. Yep.

• 45:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What great children actors.

• 45:14Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 45:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Give them an Oscar.

• 45:16Corinne Vien?

  I'm actually curious if they were related to one another because there was a scene where the youngest daughter is sitting on the bed and her mom is behind her. And it was just the way that she was kind of, like, spacing out and not really thinking about anything. And then she, like, leans back and just, like, leans into her mom. I was thinking, like, that feels like such a realistic relationship between a child-

• 45:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow, I want to watch this so badly.

• 45:37Corinne Vien?

  Well, you're gonna have to watch the subtitles because they have some-

• 45:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or I'll find it with volume.

• 45:43Corinne Vien?

  But yeah, Pam Early, Susie, Kim, all actors. The trance, the possession of Michael Parkinson, all scripted, all rehearsed.

• 45:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So when did they, when did they reveal that it was all fake?

• 45:54Corinne Vien?

  So this is where I'm confused because apparently, in the very beginning, if you were sitting down for the first 15 seconds, there was, like, a flash on the screen saying, insinuating that it was fake.

• 46:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So if you tuned in in the middle, you would have thought it was real.

• 46:07Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Or if you were just, like, going and getting a glass of water or your popcorn or candy bar or whatever, like, or you're not really paying attention.

• 46:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 46:14Corinne Vien?

  When I rented it, I did not see that warning that, like, some of the articles said was in the beginning.

• 46:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 46:21Corinne Vien?

  Instead, you're just immediately brought into it where the presenter, Michael Parkinson, is basically saying, like, this is a live broadcast. We're doing something that we've never done before. We're entering a haunted home. Like, the setup makes it seem so real.

• 46:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I appreciate it so much from a storytelling, creative aspect. Like, I would want to create something like that, where you kind of are, like, nodding that it's fake, but you want people to believe it's real.

• 46:45Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 46:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then after the fact, you reveal it's fake.

• 46:48Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, and you trick 11 million people.

• 46:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's crazy.

• 46:50Corinne Vien?

  So BBC had just created, like, a massive hoax, but they didn't mean to.

• 46:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But people were actually experiencing hauntings-

• 46:56Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 46:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  -from watching it, which is similar to our podcast. Like, we haunt people-

• 47:00Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 47:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  -accidentally.

• 47:01Corinne Vien?

  Well, and too, as soon as the broadcast ends, it, the very first thing that comes up says, written by Stephen Volk. But you're not, you're not thinking about it because you're so horrified by what you just experienced. But basically, this is how it all went down.

• 47:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then also documentaries have, like, a written by and directed by situation-

• 47:17Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 47:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  -because they do string the story together.

• 47:20Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, things, yeah. So Stephen Volk, he was a writer, and he had this idea for a show called Ghost Watch, inspired by Orson Welles' radio broadcast in America decades before, where they basically broadcast, like, an alien abduction. And so many people had, like-

• 47:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Believed it was real.

• 47:36Corinne Vien?

  Believed it was real, it caused mass panic.

• 47:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So cool.

• 47:39Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, he was a writer, and he was like, oh, my gosh, this would be so cool. He pitched to BBC that they create six episodes, like, mini-series of this sort of, like, fictionalized but feels real drama.

• 47:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like the black tapes?

• 47:51Corinne Vien?

  Yes, where every single week, a new one comes out, and it ends with a live broadcast on Halloween night. That was what he pitched. He was like, oh, it would be so great to kind of, like, blur the lines between what's scripted and what's real because we'll use a real journalist, we'll use real ghost-hunting equipment, we'll use the real news formatting and blend these two concepts. And the BBC is like, oh, my gosh, that is a great idea. How interesting is that? Let's do it. However, we're not gonna scrap the six episodes leading up, and we are just gonna do the live investigation. So there's really, like, very little indication for people that this is-

• 48:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, there's no buildup, nothing. It's literally just climax.

• 48:26Corinne Vien?

  They had a budget of 900,000 pounds to create this. They recorded it over weeks and then cut together the footage to make it look like it was live. They gave a real phone number for a switchboard.

• 48:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So they were getting calls.

• 48:39Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but those weren't the calls that were actually-

• 48:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And also, like, if so many calls are coming in, yeah, no one's gonna know that-

• 48:45Corinne Vien?

  The actual calls that are presented on the segment-

• 48:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Were pre-recorded.

• 48:48Corinne Vien?

  Are pre-recorded and fake and scripted.

• 48:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ah, wow.

• 48:52Corinne Vien?

  Some people, a very, very small amount of people, knew that it was not real. Those were only the people who read the TV Guide.

• 49:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, because, like, in the TV Guide, it said it was not real?

• 49:03Corinne Vien?

  Uh huh, in the TV Guide.

• 49:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Do you remember reading the TV Guide?

• 49:05Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 49:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't, like-

• 49:07Corinne Vien?

  I feel like my grandparents still get the TV Guide.

• 49:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Do they?

• 49:09Corinne Vien?

  I think they do. I feel like I still see it sometimes when I'm there.

• 49:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's so many things that, like, you don't think about until you hear about it again.

• 49:15Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 49:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, I haven't thought about the TV Guide since I saw a TV Guide.

• 49:19Corinne Vien?

  Right. So, yeah, in the TV Guide, which I think the publication was owned by the BBC, they had, or something like that.

• 49:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 49:26Corinne Vien?

  But they had basically, like, said, tune in for, like, a special scripted whatever. So very few people, most of the 11 million viewers had no clue.

• 49:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I also imagine, like, say I was watching it, and I started it in the beginning, but I missed that thing, and it's so crazy, and I call you, and I'm like, you have to turn on the TV, and you tune in 15 minutes later, and then you call your friend, and, like, everyone starts joining in. How would you know?

• 49:55Corinne Vien?

  How would you? And, like, this is 1992. It's not like something like this has happened before.

• 49:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 50:00Corinne Vien?

  And also, I'll say, I think it was like-

• 50:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No one's tweeting about it as it's happening.

• 50:03Corinne Vien?

  2015 or, no, 2011? I don't know, some 15 years ago, The Animal Planet put out a mermaid documentary, and it was, like, skirting on the line of mockumentary versus real. And it tricked a lot of people, and I was definitely one of them that was, like, pretty confused. So I think Animal Planet owes me an apology. And BBC definitely was encouraged to apologize to a lot of people because they were a very trusted news source. And in one night, basically, undid all of the trust that they had built for decades.

• 50:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See, it makes me trust them more. I'm like, I like you even more. You have my sense of-

• 50:43Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 50:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  -the world.

• 50:45Corinne Vien?

  Okay, but this is gonna make you feel bad. Because even though it was, like, a late-night program, there were a lot of kids who were watching.

• 50:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Were they getting nightmares?

• 50:53Corinne Vien?

  And they were very affected. Children couldn't sleep, they no longer could walk around their homes alone. Grown men had actually, like, soiled themselves watching the program, like, people were freaked.

• 51:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't think that's hilarious.

• 51:03Corinne Vien?

  It was, like, very Blair Witch, you know?

• 51:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 51:06Corinne Vien?

  14 months after the broadcast, the British Medical Journal published an article that documented the first known case in medical history of post-traumatic stress disorder in children caused by a television program. So kids, like, had real PTSD from this.

• 51:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This makes me think about how when Psycho came out, like, that was the first time there'd ever been something so graphic on screen, like, the stabbing scene and the blood. But we've become so desensitized as a society that it is shocking that this caused so much trauma. But I get it, like-

• 51:38Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 51:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When it's the first time being exposed to things like this, it's very, very intense.

• 51:43Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, the study looked at children between the ages of 10 and 14 and found a lot of intrusive thoughts, nightmares, flashbacks to scenes that they had seen on screen, hypervigilance, self-harm, all from watching the 90 minutes of the segment on TV. And one person was truly harmed. There was an 18-year-old named Martin Denham. He lived with his parents, and he had watched Ghost Watch on Halloween night and became deeply affected and obsessed with it. He was so terrified to be in his own home, even though he had lived in this home for years and years and years, and there were, like, sounds from the heating system and the pipes. Now, every time the same sounds happened, he was freaked out and transported back to what he saw on that broadcast. And five days after the broadcast, he ended up leaving this world.

• 52:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's really sad.

• 52:29Corinne Vien?

  He left a note that said, if there are ghosts, I will always be with you as a ghost. And so his parents actually, like, had attempted to sue over this, but were found. The BBC was not found responsible for his death.

• 52:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. There's also, like, such worse things on the internet and, or, like, I mean, on television-

• 52:48Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 52:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  -in addition to that, like-

• 52:49Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 52:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And they did give a warning, so I guess-

• 52:52Corinne Vien?

  They did, it's just, yeah, they, like, very clearly were trying to bury the warning-

• 52:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 52:56Corinne Vien?

  -and make it so that most people did not understand what they were saying. So the Broadcasting Standards Commission did convene and hold formal hearings about this broadcast. And nearly three years after the broadcast, they issued their ruling, and the BBC-

• 53:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not your, you're exposing your hair!

• 53:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Now you would be accused. Now you look like a baker.

• 53:19Corinne Vien?

  It was the devil.

• 53:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Now you're Russian.

• 53:25Corinne Vien?

  I'm just pretending that I came over from England. Okay, so the BBC, they concluded, the board concluded, had deliberately set out to quote, cultivate a sense of menace.

• 53:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is my motto right now in life. I'm trying to cultivate a sense of menace.

• 53:40Corinne Vien?

  And that they had a duty to do more than simply hint at deception when presenting something like this to an audience. And so to that, I say to Animal Planet, did you learn nothing from what happened to BBC?

• 53:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You did this whole episode just to call out Animal Planet. You're like, I need an apology.

• 54:00Corinne Vien?

  Literally, what the hell? I'm so pissed. So the BBC had removed Ghost Watch from its catalog, discouraged employees from ever talking about it, basically tried to pretend like this never happened, forget about it for years. But for me, while Ghost Watch was fiction, the terror was very real.

• 54:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn.

• 54:20Corinne Vien?

  And that is the story of BBC's Ghost Watch, a Halloween night hoax.

• 54:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I am sad that none of it was real. Like.

• 54:27Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Okay, well, they got a ton of inspiration from the Enfield Poltergeist case.

• 54:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, because there's so many similarities.

• 54:35Corinne Vien?

  So many similarities.

• 54:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn, that's wild. I'm very impressed by the acting.

• 54:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That is something else.

• 54:42Corinne Vien?

  And there's so many more things because I feel like I was kind of stumbling my way through some of this because I'm trying to remember like what all came up because it was such a quick hit. It's like 90 minutes where they had the segment to.

• 54:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And they had to like set it up in the beginning, like give you context. Here's the thing is you and I could do this because we're not creating a fake scenario. We, we don't need $900,000 to film in a studio for weeks in advance. We are going to do a live investigation from somewhere.

• 55:06Corinne Vien?

  And just see what happens.

• 55:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And just see what happens.

• 55:08Corinne Vien?

  It would be so cruel of the paranormal world to not let anything happen, given that every time we've done an investigation, a lot has happened. It would feel like they're, they're con on us.

• 55:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Well, remember when Meredith and I stayed at the Reed House Hotel in Chattanooga? And her and I did like our own little investigation. We recorded an episode after and nothing had happened when it was just her and I. But then we had campfire stories and so much happened. And then like, it was like the, the room and the spirits needed to warm up to us.

• 55:38Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 55:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. You never really know.

• 55:40Corinne Vien?

  You never know.

• 55:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's unpredictable.

• 55:42Corinne Vien?

  I remember, I feel like Ghost Adventures did like a 12 hour Ghostathon or like eight hour Ghostathon. I remember me and my friend Ben were like glued to my TV in my living room, watching it for hours and nothing happened.

• 55:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's fun. The excitement is it's live, so you don't want to not watch.

• 56:01Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 56:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Live because you don't want to miss something when it does happen. Yeah.

• 56:05Corinne Vien?

  What if something happens during the commercial break?

• 56:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Exactly.

• 56:08Corinne Vien?

  But I guess like this was kind of, I think this lended to the terror. Where when they're cutting back to other people in other segments and then cutting back to the house and you're kind of already disoriented because you don't know what you missed and you're kind of like thrown into something.

• 56:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Especially the moment when they're like all of a sudden playing a video or playing board games after the cameraman was bleeding out of his head.

• 56:30Corinne Vien?

  The infrared scene was really scary.

• 56:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I thought you were going to say that like an extra body was going to show up on the infrared.

• 56:36Corinne Vien?

  No, but it felt like that because she was reaching and like they're in the dark reaching for each other.

• 56:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, now I really want to watch it.

• 56:43Corinne Vien?

  You should.

• 56:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm sad that it's fake, but I'm also, I am glad it's fake in the sense that like how horrible for, if they were really experiencing this, how horrible for them to have to then experience it and then have no answers. So I guess it's better that it's fake, but.

• 56:57Corinne Vien?

  And still articles come out. Like I, I read quite a few articles in addition to watching it because people will be like, it's a 10 year anniversary for when BBC, or 10 year, it's the 20 year anniversary for when BBC fucked you up as a child or whatever.

• 57:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn BBC. Well, I didn't know how to pick a story for this. So I just, because it's October, went possession.

• 57:17Corinne Vien?

  Great. That's basically what happened to a couple of people in this story.

• 57:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Also, men who have mustaches who are listening, are they itchy? Or is this just because I have it glued to my face?

• 57:27Corinne Vien?

  It's just super sweaty.

• 57:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, instead of pipes, we have a spirit named Albert from our listener Liv. It's called Albert, my not so friendly entity. Trigger warning, possession, Ouija, scratching, and more.

• 57:40Corinne Vien?

  Great. Lovely.

• 57:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hello, lovely ladies.

• 57:42Corinne Vien?

  Hello.

• 57:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's me, Liv. In my previous email, I mentioned my not so friendly entity and I figured you guys would appreciate hearing about it. We would. You figured correctly. So buckle up because this guy and I have a lot of lore. So as some context, here's the floor plan of my childhood home. You walk in through the front door to the living room and directly across is the sliding door that goes to the backyard. To the left is a hallway with three bedrooms and to the right is a kitchen. Around the corner in the kitchen, there's a little hallway that has a bathroom, laundry room, and a door to the garage at the end. My oldest sister had just moved out of the house and I took her bedroom. And this bedroom was the last one in the hallway. And it's always been the worst. It's colder than most rooms in the house and everyone's shared reoccurring

• 58:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  nightmares that started in this room. Weird noises happen outside the window and on the door, et cetera. You get the idea. Why would you move into it?

• 58:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like, you didn't have to.

• 58:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Maybe it's bigger. I don't know.

• 58:36Corinne Vien?

  Blaming you already.

• 58:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  For starters, I have always been terrified of the dark and I'm nearly 25 and I still am. So it was my first night in the new bedroom. I'm eight years old and this is when I met Albert. Because of my crippling fear, I always slept with the bedroom door wide open and the hall light on so that my bedroom was very well lit at night. And on top of that, I had a nightlight. So at some point during the night, I woke up to a pitch black silhouette, standing over six feet, six inches tall in the hallway. It is staring into my room. I know that it was at least six foot six because my dad is six five and he comfortably fits in the door frames. But this thing was taller than the door frame. I stared at it,

• 59:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  petrified in fear, until I truly fell back asleep in fear. I told my parents about it the next morning and because they are pro paranormal, they told me, oh, it's probably your great uncle Albert, who was six foot eight and had apparently six fingers.

• 59:34Corinne Vien?

  Whoa. Wait, this is kind of fun. A family, like just a family of giants.

• 59:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, turns out Uncle Albert never existed.

• 59:43Corinne Vien?

  Oh, what the heck?

• 59:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's just what they told me to soothe my mind.

• 59:46Corinne Vien?

  I believed them.

• 59:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But homeboy got stuck with the name Albert because of this story. So over the years, I saw Albert here and there, in the hallway, in mirrors behind me, in the corner of my eye, but it never did anything. It just watched until my first boyfriend. Now, my first boyfriend was super shitty and I won't get into the nitty gritty, but all you need to know is he was a POS, piece of shit. He was also very into the paranormal and knew all about Albert. More often than not, growing up, we would smell cigarettes. And my mom smoked, but it smelled like someone was smoking in the house, which my mom did not do. One time, my first boyfriend was over for dinner and randomly doubled over in pain. When I asked what was wrong, he said he felt like he was just burnt. He pulled

• 1:00:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  his pants down and in his pelvic bone, there was a perfect, fresh circular burn, like as if someone had put out a cigarette in him.

• 1:00:38Corinne Vien?

  That is very disturbing.

• 1:00:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He then felt like there was burning on his back. And when he took his shirt off, there were three long, bright red scratches going down his entire back.

• 1:00:48Corinne Vien?

  I cannot remember when we read a story like this, but we definitely have another encounter from someone of like being burned by a cigarette or like a cigar from.

• 1:00:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. Liv says, keep in mind, this is also in front of my family. So how funny, my boyfriend is just pulling off his pants and shirt in front of my entire family, but.

• 1:01:07Corinne Vien?

  If you're being attacked and you're burning, like, yeah, strip down.

• 1:01:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He was never burnt again because I openly said out loud to Albert, that's fucked up. You're not allowed to do that. But this boyfriend did get scratched anytime he came over. One time, this boyfriend spent the night in our spare room. And at the same time, around 3:30 AM, we both woke up and both walked out into the hallway. So they were sleeping in separate rooms. Both woke up at 3:30 AM, walked into the hallway, hearing heavy stomping around the house, like someone was walking around in work boots. This was a new experience for me in this house. My boyfriend grabbed his baseball bat. I grabbed a knife and he and I walked around, thinking there was truly an intruder in the home.

• 1:01:48Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 1:01:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  During this check.

• 1:01:50Corinne Vien?

  That's so scary.

• 1:01:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Terrifying. During this check, we also heard knocking on the garage door, which was very common. Sure enough, no one was in the house. But when we checked the kitchen, I looked down the hallway, the one with the laundry room, bathroom and garage door, and we saw the light in the laundry room flicking on and off. I could also hear the light switch flipping up and down. So I put my knife down. I walked over. I stood in the doorway and said, dude, it's 3 AM. We're trying to sleep. Shut the fuck up. Keep in mind, the lights were still flickering on and off in front of me and I'm 16 years old. My boyfriend was horrified, but the second I spoke those words, the lights turned off. So I turned and went to go back to bed and my boyfriend asked, can I please stay in your room tonight? Obviously, yeah. After that, he did. So we're going to bed and my boyfriend literally passes out across the bed,

• 1:02:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  like laying all over the bed. And I'm like, dude, lay normally. I also want to go to sleep. But this is when something happens. He's passed out. Now I look back and I'm like, wow, he passed out in a very weird manner. Too quickly. And he starts to talk to me. He tells me to fuck off in a voice that is dark and menacing. And mind you, yeah, this guy is a piece of shit for other reasons, but he never talked to me like that. So this is the conversation that happened. I go, who the fuck do you think you are sleeping in my bed, talking to me like that? Him, super cold, emotionless. I don't know. Who am I?

• 1:03:11Corinne Vien?

  Ew.

• 1:03:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I said, excuse me? He goes, seriously? Who am I? I call his name. Are you okay? He goes, it's not. And I don't know the boyfriend's name, so I'll call him Ben. It's not Ben. I'm leaving. I said, excuse me? And he passes out again and then wakes up terrified, asks

• 1:03:32Corinne Vien?

  I'm leaving.

• 1:03:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Who he is, like the entity is saying, I'm leaving. Basically, something possessed him. It's not Ben. Like he's admitting, the spirit is saying, it's not your boyfriend.

• 1:03:41Corinne Vien?

  Is like, okay, well, I guess I'll just go then, since you're looking for Ben.

• 1:03:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:03:45Corinne Vien?

  It just seems a little too calm. Like you just got to possess someone. You don't want to stay a little longer?

• 1:03:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, he passes out, wakes up terrified, asks who he is again. And I tell him, your name is Ben. And then he looks at me with a blank stare and goes, I'm, and I don't know the name that he said, I'm so and so. I died on this property seven years ago.

• 1:04:04Corinne Vien?

  Only seven years?

• 1:04:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And keep in mind, this boyfriend did not know about this dead guy, let alone his full name. And I knew the spirit was in my house, but he'd always been docile and nice, putting lost items out, basic shadows, stuff like that. World's best ghost, basically. And here my boyfriend is profoundly apologizing, naming some specific paranormal events that I've literally never told him or anyone else because they weren't particularly entertaining. And this went on for five full minutes. Like I was yapping with this ghost who was very emotional and kind of confused. So it was like an accidental possession.

• 1:04:36Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:04:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Then my boyfriend passes out again and wakes up again, but this time he's normal. He always has refused to talk about that night. So I don't know what he went through. I don't know what he remembers, if he remembers anything. And he never asked me about it, so he doesn't know what I experienced either.

• 1:04:52Corinne Vien?

  Dang. I'm picturing, I know that this isn't how it is, but I'm picturing in the show Ghosts, when the ghosts get to possess someone, how like they're all like

• 1:05:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:01Corinne Vien?

  Just like a dramatic like switch.

• 1:05:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it sounds like the spirit was confused.

• 1:05:05Corinne Vien?

  Like it didn't understand.

• 1:05:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Why am I in a body again? Like what's happening?

• 1:05:09Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I'm curious what, what that person did in his spirit form to end up there.

• 1:05:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. Side note, when I was speaking to this spirit in my boyfriend's body, I didn't ask about the afterlife because I feel like that's disrespectful and not our place to know until we are there. Like it felt like the ghost was having a panic attack most of the time. He was apologizing for scaring me, thanking me for housing him, telling me how he missed his family.

• 1:05:33Corinne Vien?

  Oh, this makes me so sad.

• 1:05:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. He was pretty calm towards the end of our convo and I didn't have any, obviously him, interactions after that. So I think maybe he moved on after that night. But I 100% believe the first entity that possessed my boyfriend was Albert. The one who said, I'm not him, I'm leaving.

• 1:05:50Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The ghosts in my house all have different attitudes, personalities and presentations. And while Albert does listen to me, he does not present in any certain way or vibe, except for aggressive. And the first possession definitely wasn't my boyfriend, but wasn't really a person either. It was just this lifeless energy with aggression. And that's Albert's vibe. They're like, fuck you. And like that energy. So yeah, that boyfriend never spent the night again at my house. During our relationship, I was filled with dread and my reoccurring nightmares were amped up. When we broke up, the dread went away and the nightmares died down. There was part of me though, like if he really was a piece of shit, was Albert burning him and scratching him because he like didn't want him in the house.

• 1:06:28Corinne Vien?

  Oh, maybe.

• 1:06:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A couple of months after we broke up, I had a bunch of friends over, but both guys and girls between the ages of 14 and 19. And all of these people knew about my house and they had had experiences themselves. It was super late. I'm guessing around 2:00 AM when someone brought out a Ouija board. And in my living room, we have two mirrors on opposite walls that face each other. So yeah, my living room is a portal. And we decided that's the best place to play with the Ouija board, right in the middle of this portal. We never got in contact with anything, but the planchette did move, although one of the guys admitted to pushing it later. However, what occurred while playing the Ouija board was entirely unexpected. The planchette was moving and all of our fear and adrenaline and whatever is through the roof, were asking basic questions and doing the thing.

• 1:07:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then the guy who said he moved the planchette winces and casually said, what the fuck? Ow, my back hurts. Now I know what Albert has done.

• 1:07:20Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so Albert.

• 1:07:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I knew exactly what had happened. Albert does this all the time. So I tell this kid to take his shirt off and sure enough, he has three scratches down his back. So I poke fun and I say, you pissed Albert off. What did you do? And then I out loud say, Albert, can you not fuck with my friends? About half of us were looking at this kid's back and our backs were turned away from the sliding glass door. The other half that was facing towards the sliding glass door all screamed, got up in a panic and start yelling at the sliding glass door. We all ask, what's wrong? What happened? And the others who had been looking at the sliding glass door, proceed to tell us how they saw a massive, tall, skinny, pitch black silhouette sprint behind them from the bedrooms to the kitchen in the reflection of the door. I just casually said, oh yeah, that's Albert.

• 1:08:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then Albert starts banging aggressively on the garage door.

• 1:08:12Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:08:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Man was messing with us big bad. I will give it to him that he has amazing theatrics and timing. So my friends put the Ouija board away and all of us bundled up in the living room and we just stayed up all night watching movies. Occasionally the garage door would continue to bang, but like I said, that's just Albert. That's what he does. Yeah, I've seen him here and there. So has my sister and nephew. The lights will switch on and off every now and then, but nothing really significant has happened since that night with a Ouija board. Hope you enjoyed, Albert. It's something for sure, but I kind of like it. I think it's funny. Much love. Thank you, ghouls. Live.

• 1:08:47Corinne Vien?

  I have conflicted feelings about him too. Cause it's like, he is harming people. But he does harm one bad person.

• 1:08:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. But he does seem scary. But maybe he can't help what he looks like. He's just really tall.

• 1:09:00Corinne Vien?

  The whole possession, like you had an opportunity and then you're like, oh, well, I'm not him. I'm leaving.

• 1:09:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, it feels like they had no control of it. Like it's like they all accidentally

• 1:09:08Corinne Vien?

  Got sucked in.

• 1:09:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Like what's up with boyfriend's energy?

• 1:09:13Corinne Vien?

  Exactly what I was just thinking. I'm like, why is he sucking all the spirits in to possess him? That's so strange.

• 1:09:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Does that give an indication of what kind of spirit he is going to be when like he's on the other side? Is he going to be like a very throw energy everywhere situation?

• 1:09:26Corinne Vien?

  Or did he like accidentally, actual project unknowingly? And then his open vessel just

• 1:09:33Corinne Vien?

  absorbed whatever was closest?

• 1:09:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like you need to have energy inside of you?

• 1:09:37Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The way that I'm imagining it just kind of gives me ick.

• 1:09:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like slurping in a soul?

• 1:09:42Corinne Vien?

  Ew.

• 1:09:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Isn't that kind of gross?

• 1:09:44Corinne Vien?

  You use the word slurp.

• 1:09:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, you slurped when you that's slurping. You slurped.

• 1:09:51Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Okay. Well, boyfriend bad.

• 1:09:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Boyfriend bad, Albert?

• 1:09:54Corinne Vien?

  Probably bad.

• 1:09:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Big bad, funny, honey?

• 1:09:57Corinne Vien?

  Big bad, funny, honey.

• 1:09:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And tall.

• 1:09:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:02Corinne Vien?

  I don't know how I feel about him. It's so, I'm, I'm so back and forth.

• 1:10:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, and also the nightmares that everyone gets in that bedroom, I'm curious about. And as long as Albert's not

• 1:10:10Corinne Vien?

  Olivia hasn't been harmed.

• 1:10:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, she just had nightmares and been scared, but otherwise, and and chose to move into that bedroom.

• 1:10:17Corinne Vien?

  Mentally terrified, emotionally disturbed.

• 1:10:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, um, this is a great episode. I enjoyed, even though it was all a hoax, I enjoyed the ride you took me on.

• 1:10:27Corinne Vien?

  As the very first one in October, because it's like, it leads in

• 1:10:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:31Corinne Vien?

  to some actual, real terrifying cases.

• 1:10:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Lined up.

• 1:10:35Corinne Vien?

  Every once in a while, there's people out there that try to

• 1:10:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:38Corinne Vien?

  say they've captured Bigfoot and haven't tried to do a live investigation and it's not live.

• 1:10:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's not live. But everything you see here on Two Girls One Ghost, it's real. We're the most real. We are real. We're, we're getting real.

• 1:10:52Corinne Vien?

  We don't need to fake anything.

• 1:10:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No. But uh, thank your postal workers. Tell them I love them. Tell them Sabrina from Two Girls One Ghost loves them.

• 1:11:02Corinne Vien?

  Or 19, the 1690 Salem community.

• 1:11:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, we don't, no, no, no.

• 1:11:07Corinne Vien?

  But the postal workers.

• 1:11:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We thank them. Respect. They'll go down in history.

• 1:11:11Corinne Vien?

  They will.

• 1:11:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's why historical figure.

• 1:11:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We love you all. If you want to uh, send us your paranormal experiences, please email them to us at [email protected]. If you want episodes one week early and ad free, you can join us on Patreon or there's YouTube subscription and Apple Plus and whatnot. But Patreon, you get so many other bonuses like campfire stories, witch class, book club, a free sticker. Yeah, lots of things.

• 1:11:37Corinne Vien?

  Lots of things. Shout out to Jamie Ryan, who edits and produces this podcast. Thank you, Jamie. Also, we will be doing the Halloween costume competition.

• 1:11:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Just send us your costumes. We'll do a couple of categories.

• 1:11:48Corinne Vien?

  You just, you just tag them.

• 1:11:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:50Corinne Vien?

  Or tag us on Instagram.

• 1:11:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:51Corinne Vien?

  That's how it works. Follow us on Instagram. You'll see the rules there.

• 1:11:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Great. Love you all.

• 1:11:56Corinne Vien?

  Cool. And we will

• 1:11:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See you on the other side. This is really itchy.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy to layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.