Episode 383 - Reddit Horror Stories with Morgan Absher & Kaelyn Moore

This week Sabrina is joined by Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore (Clues, Two Hot Takes & Heart Starts Pounding), for a Reddit horror story swap that's creepy, chaotic, and hilarious. We trade some of the internet's most unsettling stories from Appalachian legends, cryptids, and Bigfoot, to spooky situations that prove humans are scarier than ghosts. We also learn about the time Kaelyn got stuck at the Scientology Center for nine hours, Sabrina’s Edinburgh haunting and Morgan’s old Hollywood ghost. Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited and produced by Jaimi Ryan. Original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone. This is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbor says,

• 0:44Speaker 00

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• 1:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome to Two Girls, One Ghost. Two girls, one ghost. And if that felt weird, it felt weird for me, too. So you're not alone. It's very weird doing this without Corinne. As you'll see the sign off at the end of this episode, also felt very, very weird. I have a couple of things I want to say in the beginning of this episode. And then I have a really, really exciting episode ahead for you that I think you will all love. I'll start with the sad news, and then I'll give the good news. And the sad news is, and some of you have probably seen this on social media, but I'm going to talk about it briefly because I will probably cry if I talk about it for very long.

• 2:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My sweet little girl, Lea, my cat of 13 years, did sadly pass away on July 4. So many of you have shown so much love for her, for me, for her over the years. And just she's, she's been a part of this podcast, and it's been so special sharing life with her. And I really thought I would have more time with her. Unfortunately, she had some pretty severe cancer that, by the time we caught it, it was beyond fixing or helping her. And it was really, really sad. But this leads into the good news is, as I was saying goodbye to her, it was before Corinne had her baby, which is the good news.

• 3:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I asked Lea to go be Baby Mendu, our newest member of the family. I asked Lea to go be a guardian on his team. So yeah, the good news is that Corinne had her baby, Teddy. He was born July 7, and everyone's healthy and doing well. Corinne is home and recovering with Teddy. Noah has met his baby brother, and we're very, very excited. And I really do hope and I believe that Lea is looking out for Teddy, is on his team, and that she will always be here. And truly, she will always be a part of the podcast because she let herself be heard.

• 3:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But yeah, we're so excited. Teddy was born July 7. Corinne does not want to share photos or anything, so please respect that choice and her privacy in that matter. But yes, everyone is healthy, everyone is happy, and we're so excited to have another creepy little kid as a part of Two Girls, One Ghost family. That also means that Corinne is on maternity leave, which we pre-recorded so many episodes, like basically all the way through the end of October, so that you, as our listener, don't notice anything strange. We are running as per usual. It will just seem like Corinne has the gestation period of an elephant. But yeah, we pre-recorded all of our episodes except for a couple.

• 4:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And this is one of those episodes that we left unrecorded, and I got to bring on some special guests for the episode. And you'll probably recognize them because they're fantastic, they're great friends of ours, and also amazing podcasters who we have so much respect for. But today, I was joined by Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore, who together are a duo who host the podcast Clues, which if you have not listened to it, highly recommend. It's an amazing, very well researched, in-depth true crime podcast. And then individually, Kaelyn Moore, you will recognize because we've had her as a guest on the podcast before. She hosts Heart Starts Pounding. And then Morgan Absher has two hot takes.

• 5:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They are two incredible women, and it was really, really fun to record with them. I know you will enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed recording it. We love you all. Thank you for being a part of our community, our family. It truly is a family. You have been here with us through so many ups and downs of life. And here's another big one. Thanks for being here. Enjoy the episode. Hey.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 5:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hi. I'm so excited to have you both here.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm so glad that we were all able to do this.

• 5:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. Me, too. Corinne's here in spirit.

• 5:57Speaker 03

  I miss Corinne.

• 5:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. She's with baby boy. Chunky, chunky Teddy.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Really, really chunky.

• 6:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But in honor of having both of you here, I figure we do something that you both do on the regular, is share some creepy, scary Reddit stories.

• 6:14Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 6:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. And I just said that the prompt was your scariest Reddit story, and that was all I gave you. So should I start? Actually, you know what? Here's what I want to start with before we get into Reddit stories. Morgan, I don't know this about you.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 6:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Do you believe in ghosts?

• 6:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  100%.

• 6:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, yeah, we talked about it.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  There's a ghost that is in her house. Yeah, I do have a ghost, maybe two now, because I brought in a couple of pieces of furniture from an old celebrity, Janice Page, I believe, right?

• 6:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Computer.

• 6:47Speaker 03

  I think it was Janice Page something.

• 6:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She's like a journalist, it says.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Nope, wrong one.

• 6:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  So I'm going to look it up.

• 6:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  But I bought a bunch of her furniture, and they forgot to take out like her needlepoint and stuff. And since then, my hauntings have increased.

• 7:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting. What are the hauntings that you're experiencing?

• 7:04Speaker 03

  My cameras in my house will spot someone walking down the hall, and they'll like follow it, but there's no one there.

• 7:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That is so cool. It's creepy, but.

• 7:13Speaker 03

  It's really.

• 7:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Especially because it sounds kind of benign.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's very harmless. We, one night, I got a little drunk and put on movies from the other celebrity that passed in my home. And I'm chatting with her, and after that, her activity decreased.

• 7:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, wow.

• 7:29Speaker 03

  So.

• 7:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, my gosh, that's actually really beautiful.

• 7:30Speaker 03

  I'm big on the woo woo.

• 7:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love the woo woo.

• 7:32Speaker 03

  I love the woo woo.

• 7:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So happy to hear that. And then Kaelyn, obviously, I know.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  We love ghosts. I want to go to Morgan's house and see the ghosts.

• 7:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We should do an investigation.

• 7:41Speaker 03

  Oh, wait, we should. Do you have any of your equipment with you?

• 7:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No. But ghost tube's on your phone.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I still have it on my phone. I still like open it sometimes. Yeah, because I downloaded it for the investigation that we did when we went to Salem.

• 7:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, see, I want to do a haunted place that I can leave. I don't know if I want to open the door bigger at my house.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  That's fair.

• 7:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? Yeah, you don't want to crack a portal in your own home.

• 8:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But Kaelyn and I have talked about the TB Hospital in Kentucky. That's really crazy.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Waverly.

• 8:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Waverly Hills.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I want to go so bad.

• 8:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, because that's the one place Corinne and I have talked about. It's simultaneously the place we're the most scared of.

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But the most drawn to.

• 8:16Speaker 03

  Yes, us too.

• 8:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So let's go. Girls' trip.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  Let's do it. I'm so down for that.

• 8:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, great. We'll plan it once Corinne's back from maternity leave.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  That's so fun. Oh, my God. Yeah, we have to. I wonder, because Corinne has her son, well, now her two sons, like kids can see ghosts, too. So I want to like, once my boy is a little bit older, I'm like, I want to bring him to these places, too, and be like, where are the ghosts?

• 8:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What do you see?

• 8:39Speaker 03

  What do you see?

• 8:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, my gosh, you guys are wild.

• 8:43Speaker 03

  Listen.

• 8:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's your ghost hunting tool.

• 8:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, truly.

• 8:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That he just let the kid run off.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  The most effective one.

• 8:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like, who needs a Ouija board when you have a baby?

• 8:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Creepy kid who then brings the ghost back to your house with them.

• 8:57Speaker 04

  Okay, wait, I found a little bit more on, I figured out. So she was one of the last surviving stars from the golden age of Hollywood, it says. And she actually passed away in 2024 at 101 years old.

• 9:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 04

  Wow, that's amazing.

• 9:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I got her dresser, some bedside tables and some needlepoint.

• 9:16Speaker 04

  Was it an estate sale? Like, did you go to, wow, where did she live?

• 9:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I didn't go to her house, my auction company that I get emails from.

• 9:23Speaker 04

  Oh, that's such a good find.

• 9:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They did her stuff.

• 9:25Speaker 04

  That's really cool.

• 9:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, all of her jewelry, scripts, I mean, they sold everything, her passports.

• 9:31Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 9:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, the family sold everything. I don't think she had any heirs.

• 9:34Speaker 04

  Maybe, okay, okay.

• 9:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 9:37Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 9:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It is wild to think about how much stuff and like real important like life items that people collect over the course of their lives. Just like either goes into a landfill or ends up in antique shops and then into someone else's home. I know. It's actually made me be like, okay, I don't need so much stuff.

• 9:56Speaker 04

  Right.

• 9:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Because especially you go to an estate sale and you see the like culmination of someone's entire life. And people are just, and racing around trying to like beat other people to get it. And I'm just like, ah.

• 10:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's kind of sad.

• 10:11Speaker 04

  It is kind of sad.

• 10:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's nice it doesn't go to a landfill, but then it's like, okay, like my kids, their kids didn't want anything.

• 10:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or my family didn't want anything.

• 10:18Speaker 04

  Do you just have stuff that no one wants? But then I know some people that have like their great grandmother's big chest of drawers. Like, that is so cool to me, like the old, original, like really masterfully crafted, like wood pieces.

• 10:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 10:31Speaker 04

  So it's just, I don't know. I think about that too, of like having nice things in my home so that they kind of like stand the test of time.

• 10:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're sentimental. I feel like you're probably sentimental too. Like, we appreciate an heirloom.

• 10:41Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 10:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So hopefully we, I do have a family that will appreciate our stuff.

• 10:46Speaker 04

  I agree, I agree.

• 10:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's a lot of stuff though in my mom's home that I feel like I would be like, wow, we don't need this.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  No, my mom's.

• 10:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because my mom collects so much.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  Oh my god, wait, can I tell you about what my mom, the video my mom sent me? She went and visited my grandma and, because my mom just had to move my grandma out of, she has Alzheimer's. So like from one home into the other.

• 11:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 11:04Speaker 04

  She sends me this video, not even joking, like 200 pieces of, from the eighties, like pitchers and glasses and plates, but they're all like shaped like fruit. So it's like a grape pitcher and a strawberry plate.

• 11:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No way.

• 11:18Speaker 04

  There's so many of these and I'm like, they're kind of like tacky enough to be cool now.

• 11:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was gonna say like anthropology for sure is making those.

• 11:25Speaker 04

  It's the stuff that they have in like anthropology home goods. So my mom was like, I don't know what to do with it. She's like sending me this video and I was like, I'm gonna take some of this stuff.

• 11:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 04

  Hold on to it.

• 11:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What's the word that everyone started that, chugi? Is it chugi?

• 11:39Speaker 04

  No, because chugi is more cringe, right? Isn't it?

• 11:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I feel old. I thought chugi was like really cool.

• 11:45Speaker 04

  Is it? What does chugi mean?

• 11:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Where's this computa mean from?

• 11:50Speaker 04

  Describes people that are out of style, basic or trying too hard to be trying to, you have been using it wrong more than.

• 11:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What word am I thinking of?

• 11:56Speaker 04

  Have you been like calling people chugi?

• 11:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I don't use it, thank god. But no, hmm, I'm gonna think about that. I'm gonna pull out my dictionary later.

• 12:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know. I can't keep up with, there's just like too many words on the internet now that I just don't know what anything means ever.

• 12:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Now I can't stop thinking about a grape pitcher. Like, that sounds really cute.

• 12:14Speaker 04

  I'll show you the video after so you can see everything. Cause like, I'm not kidding, there's 200 pieces, you should take something.

• 12:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I love that. I like fruit. Me too. Um, okay, should we get into stories?

• 12:23Speaker 04

  Let's do it.

• 12:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, I'll start. And I picked this one in honor of Corinne and also myself because it's Appalachia and I like Appalachia.

• 12:30Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 12:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so this is posted three years ago by, I just have to read the name because it's hilarious, Fireball in my ass.

• 12:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. But it's called, I had a terrifying encounter in the Appalachia Mountains and I'm looking for answers. Let me start by saying I have lived in the Appalachia Mountains my entire life and have experienced a lot of strange things. My family was Irish and settled in West Virginia, but I currently live in the North Carolina portion of these wonderful mountains. That being said, I have learned a lot about what really lurks in these dark woods, but this was like nothing I had ever experienced before. It all began with my golden retriever, Ozzy, growling. He literally never growls, so that already had me uncomfortable. But this growl was bone chilling. It was like he was getting ready to have a fight for his life or something. So I took him and my other dog out around 11:00 PM and Ozzy wouldn't leave my side.

• 13:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I noticed that my workshop door was open, so I walked down to close it and lock it up. And the entire time Ozzy was glued to my side. He also kept trying to get in between my legs, still growling, all of his hair sticking straight up like a feral animal. The second I closed the workshop door, all hell broke loose in the woods. It sounded like 50 full grown men had broken out into a full sprint, tearing through the woods. Trees were shaking, branches were falling. Truly in my life, I have never been that scared. We sprinted back to the house. I barely made it without shitting my pants. I got my pistol and mag light to figure out what the hell was out there.

• 14:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And when the dog and I got back outside, we were surrounded by what sounded like people mumbling. It was everywhere. I shined the light all over the woods and I couldn't see anything, but the sound was coming from all around. It truly sounded as if you got into a full gym of people and then everyone was mumbling. You could almost make out words, which is why I don't think it was an animal. But I also had this like sick to my stomach feeling, like a mix of a panic attack and the full on flu. Back inside the house, all night, it sounded like people were walking around, windows were creaking. You could clearly hear the sound of shoes on the gravel outside the house and that mumbling never stopped.

• 14:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Every time I got up to check the house, my feet would touch the floor and it would go dead silent. Like you couldn't hear birds, crickets, frogs, nothing. I was terrified and I didn't sleep a wink. I'm looking for any answers as to what this could be. Like this wasn't the normal spooky stories my grandma and great uncles used to tell me.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  That's insane. You know what it reminds me of? Because we, when we did our scary Reddit story episode, there was the one, or maybe it was listener tales and it came from a listener. But it was in Wisconsin and there was the chanting coming from the woods.

• 15:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 15:16Speaker 04

  And I was just reading another story where that was happening, like people hearing more like singing and chanting and rhythmic drums in the woods, which is just, what kind of, this kind of reminded me of.

• 15:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The branches breaking. It's almost like they were in the trees for branches to break and like be falling.

• 15:30Speaker 04

  Something up there.

• 15:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because this is like such a combination of things.

• 15:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, it feels like that.

• 15:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 15:35Speaker 04

  But then it feels like, what do we have Bigfoot up in the tree?

• 15:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 15:37Speaker 04

  What are we, like, what are we working with up there that then the dog is having such a visceral reaction?

• 15:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hair on end. Yeah.

• 15:44Speaker 04

  Oh, I literally, mm.

• 15:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I wish dogs can speak English. I say this all the time. I'm always like, what are you growling at to my dog now?

• 15:50Speaker 04

  I want the collar from up to become a thing.

• 15:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, yeah, and it'll just tell you what they're saying.

• 15:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. Because like my dog too, like it is really interesting. We live in a building, so he'll all of a sudden be at full attention. And I won't even hear that like the UPS guy came up and left, but like the dog does. And it's just, yeah, so I'm like, what are you hearing? Or like, how far away is something? Or how big is it?

• 16:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, and the way that they were moving too, like they're up in the trees and then they're down making gravel crunching noises in the driveway.

• 16:21Speaker 04

  But then also the second that this Reddit poster looks outside or does anything, like the sound and whatever's there, you can't see.

• 16:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. What do you think it is? Like in your experience with the woo?

• 16:34Speaker 04

  It's Appalachia, so you know it's just like something wild that you're not supposed to know about.

• 16:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  All of the cryptids in Appalachia, they were like, let's all meet in this middle of the woods. It's like when you went in high school, you were like, oh, we're gonna go meet in the woods and have a party, but all the cryptids in Appalachia decided this location.

• 16:51Speaker 04

  We had gravel pit parties.

• 16:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  Okay, you know what I just had? This is like a side tangent, but still Appalachia, but I just did an episode on the Wampus cat in Appalachia. Have you heard about like the black cats in Appalachia?

• 17:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No.

• 17:02Speaker 04

  So there's so many, I went on such a deep dive. I don't even know if this episode is like interesting to people because it's just my like.

• 17:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, anything in Appalachia is interesting.

• 17:11Speaker 04

  At 2:00 in the morning. There's all these Reddit threads on reddit.com where people are like, I saw this giant black cat in my backyard. And I went and like in Appalachia and I told people about it and they're like, no, you didn't. And then this one girl, like literally, so I started talking about that in the episode and all the comments are people being like, wait. At my job, I told my supervisor that there was a big black cat, like a panther in our parking lot and they went outside and said it was a turkey.

• 17:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What? Wait, so it's shape shifting?

• 17:40Speaker 04

  And so the like Bureau of Land Management out there or something like Fish and Game came forward and they were like, everyone who thinks you see big black cats in Appalachia, no, you don't. We don't have any, like they have mountain lions, but there's no big black cats in Appalachia. And they, and all the people keep being like, yes, there are. We are seeing these things everywhere. But no one will admit that. So like people, it was crazy to see like the comment section on that video because everyone was like, I feel like I'm going insane. Like I keep seeing these cats and people tell me that I'm not saying that.

• 18:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's insane.

• 18:09Speaker 04

  But there's also just so many entities that it could be like, I think, and I'm only gonna say this word once, people get mad at me, but skinwalkers.

• 18:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, they'll, yeah.

• 18:16Speaker 04

  And like.

• 18:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Flesh pedestrians.

• 18:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, flesh pedestrians is the, we can, the approved word to say.

• 18:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But we don't understand the rules that they follow.

• 18:25Speaker 04

  Well, it's the idea of like, if you saw something, no, you didn't.

• 18:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, you didn't.

• 18:28Speaker 04

  And it's like, just kind of extends to so many different things.

• 18:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In this situation, it's happening all night. Like you're, it doesn't even feel like you can be safe inside your house.

• 18:37Speaker 04

  No, I know.

• 18:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But so a lot of people in the comments were thinking Bigfoot. Okay, so one person said, this sounds similar to stories I hear on Sasquatch Chronicles, the human sounding words, the sound of walking around at night, the loud crashing through the woods, dead silence. And your dog's extreme fear all lend to these stories. And this is why I picked this for Corinne because she loves Bigfoot famously.

• 18:58Speaker 04

  I'm a Bigfoot believer. Me and my mom, we talk about it constantly. I think there's some of those legends that are just like, have been corroborated so many different times and places and locations.

• 19:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 19:08Speaker 04

  There has to be, it has to be real.

• 19:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it shows up in so many different cultures too, around the world.

• 19:14Speaker 04

  I want to believe in Bigfoot. I just, I think it's wild to be able to just like disappear, which is why I'm like, if it exists, it has to be an interdimensional being.

• 19:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, that's what they say, right?

• 19:24Speaker 04

  Oh, the time.

• 19:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interdimensional thing.

• 19:26Speaker 04

  Do you think the caves are the portals?

• 19:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Why not?

• 19:29Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh yeah, they were saying, oh, because we were just reading about like Mount Shasta, right? Which is supposed to be a portal in California. And there's like people or something that lives in like the tunnels.

• 19:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't want to go hiking anymore. I know, it does make you scared.

• 19:42Speaker 04

  Keep me out of the parks.

• 19:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Same with the camping. And I feel like the more time I spend on Reddit, the more terrified I am of camping.

• 19:48Speaker 04

  I literally was just talking, I'm like, I'm gonna stay in a tent in August. Not anymore.

• 19:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When you are, what are you doing in August?

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Just gonna go camp.

• 19:57Speaker 04

  I don't think I'll do anymore.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  So this is something my sibling told me the other day.

• 20:00Speaker 04

  Along the shores of Lake Superior in northern Minnesota.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  Okay, so you're gonna like hear really scary stuff in the woods.

• 20:05Speaker 04

  Bigfoot's definitely up there.

• 20:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 04

  And like, dog loons is up there too.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  I love a loon.

• 20:09Speaker 04

  The other day, my sibling was like, oh, I think I'm gonna go camping at this like abandoned city on the outskirts of LA. There's like a off the grid community that lives there.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  Like the Charles Manson community?

• 20:20Speaker 04

  Literally. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, you're not. And they're like, yeah, it's like you have to like barter for your like food and stuff.

• 20:27Speaker 03

  Just go to Burning Man.

• 20:28Speaker 04

  It's like Burning Man, but I was like, I really, and I looked up this place and there was like some sort of like

• 20:34Speaker 03

  Are there Google reviews?

• 20:35Speaker 04

  hepatitis outbreak happening or something. It doesn't seem safe. I don't know why this is so appealing to you. And Leo was like, yeah, I'm just gonna go. I'm gonna, I'll come back and tell you about it. I think it was fine, but it's just like a community of people that do, yeah. It's um, it's outside of Slab City. It's not

• 20:51Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 20:51Speaker 04

  It's like around Slab City. I don't know if anyone's camped there, but apparently it's like a whole thing.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  This is the thing is sometimes things that people like humans do is a little bit more uh unknown to me than the paranormal.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:04Speaker 03

  Okay, there was one other theory that was interesting. Someone said it sounded like you might be dealing with an upset forest spirit. It sounds more metaphysical, which would explain why it left you alone. But forests, mountains, rivers, all places like this have spirits who call at home. And places with more powerful spirits are considered sacred. And that's something about Appalachia that everyone talks about. It's like, there's this ancient energy

• 21:28Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:28Speaker 03

  at work that we don't understand. And that's why like the native tribes are all like, you respect the land. And if someone, even if the original poster didn't disrespect the land, but someone around there did.

• 21:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, right, right, right.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  Did it trigger?

• 21:43Speaker 04

  Have you both been?

• 21:44Speaker 03

  I've been through it, but I don't think I've spent a prolonged period intentionally in the Appalachia region.

• 21:50Speaker 04

  I would just love to go. And like, I just wanna, I don't know, I wanna just feel that energy.

• 21:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:55Speaker 04

  I wanna go. So my grandfather's from Taft, um Tennessee, like a one stoplight town. And he, I talk about this in one of the Heartland episodes, but he like lived on the edge of these woods in Appalachia. And he, it was just him and his mom growing up and his grandparents. And his mom told him like, there's a witch in the woods behind the house. Like, you can't go back there.

• 22:17Speaker 03

  I want to be that witch in the woods.

• 22:18Speaker 04

  And he, and his friend would, they would dare each other to go in the woods. And they'd run up to the tree line and they'd always hear like a scream, like a guttural scream when they get to the tree line and they'd have to run back.

• 22:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:32Speaker 04

  And what they ultimately found out was

• 22:35Speaker 03

  Bobcat?

• 22:35Speaker 04

  witch or not, no. So it was, they had a neighbor who like intentionally would, they had like a clothing line and like a big bow that they would like

• 22:44Speaker 03

  What?

• 22:45Speaker 04

  play like a violin. So it would make this like screaming sound to get the kids to not go in the woods. Cause they were like also trying to warn the kids to not go in the woods.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  Well, okay, that's like protective. That's great.

• 22:53Speaker 04

  Which is protective. And so the, what they, when he grew up, he was like, I bet there was some sort of like moonshine oper, like operation in the woods. And you know, moonshiners will kill people if they come upon, cause it's illegal. And so

• 23:05Speaker 03

  Wait, I feel like, did you tell us this story?

• 23:07Speaker 04

  I probably told you this. Yeah.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  I'm like, why is it so familiar?

• 23:10Speaker 04

  No, I love it.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  I'm like, did I read something like this on Reddit? Like, I feel like there are similar stories like this. Yeah.

• 23:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, but it, it's one of those things too, where he always felt like there was something spooky back there. And he was like, I guess it was maybe moonshiners, but like everyone had stories about witches in Appalachia all around him.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  I mean

• 23:26Speaker 04

  So fun.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  So much of like modern traditions descended from like paganism, I know. And it's like, not that pagans are witches, but like, there's so much folklore that like has transcended and like gone, you know, generation to generation. So it's like, honestly, there could have been someone that like haunts all and gretted kids out in the woods. And like, it's, those stories just

• 23:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  like, they continue.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  Right.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  I don't know. Maybe it's like part of our trip. We go to Waverly Hills, stop, it's close to Appalachia.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  I'm down.

• 23:57Speaker 04

  Cause you guys, you never did tours in there? Cause you've toured your shows.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't think, no.

• 24:02Speaker 04

  Never stop in there.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  I don't think we went, maybe we were tangentially like close by, but

• 24:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  I'm not. I'm really bad at geography, so I'm gonna Google. Well, Appalachia goes, it's like very vast.

• 24:12Speaker 04

  And the, the trail goes up to Canada too. So it's just like

• 24:15Speaker 03

  Cause even up in Massachusetts, like where Corinne and I live, it's

• 24:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's where the trail is.

• 24:20Speaker 03

  It's pretty close. Yeah. And there's a lot that happens in the New Hampshire region.

• 24:25Speaker 04

  I think I've been, I mean, I've spent time in like everywhere outside, like Kentucky, Louisville, outside of it, Nashville, Tennessee, outside of it. I did go to, I think it was Virginia though, not West Virginia. So I, no, I honestly haven't spent time in Ohio really. No.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  Wow. Okay, we're going.

• 24:45Speaker 04

  We're going.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:46Speaker 04

  One night camping trip.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:48Speaker 04

  On the trail.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  What do we have? Do we have like an emergency beacon just in case?

• 24:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  Like a satellite radio?

• 24:54Speaker 04

  You'll have to bring like hairspray and yeah, all this, all this stuff.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  I know how to make a flamethrower out of hairspray.

• 24:59Speaker 04

  What?

• 25:00Speaker 03

  Oh, with like a lighter and you do it?

• 25:02Speaker 04

  That's a good idea.

• 25:02Speaker 03

  They showed me in China when they took my hairspray.

• 25:04Speaker 04

  I love this.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:05Speaker 04

  They showed you?

• 25:06Speaker 03

  Someone like took your hairspray and made a flamethrower?

• 25:08Speaker 04

  That's an interesting choice of them to

• 25:09Speaker 03

  It was um very aggressive in, you know, from my perspective. But yeah, I went through Shanghai and the TSA equivalent guy was like, you can't have this. I was like, that's okay. You can, you can take it. Like, I don't need it.

• 25:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  And it was just like a tiny travel size hairspray. And he goes, see, this is why. Literally right next to the X-ray machine, starts spraying my hairspray, lights it up and creates a flamethrower. And I'm like

• 25:34Speaker 04

  I feel like in the airport?

• 25:36Speaker 03

  Also like, don't

• 25:36Speaker 04

  Sir.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  tell you how to do it.

• 25:38Speaker 04

  Uh, he showed me.

• 25:39Speaker 03

  Oh, right.

• 25:39Speaker 04

  I go, you just gave me ideas.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  You can't even say the word bomb in an airport in the United States without going to airport jail. So it's crazy that he was able to

• 25:46Speaker 04

  Oh yeah, my mom works at the airport. If you make a joke, she's throwing you in airport jail.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  I would hope so.

• 25:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:52Speaker 04

  But how do you tell the difference between a joke and

• 25:54Speaker 03

  I know.

• 25:54Speaker 04

  No, but I was honestly envisioning just like the airports being so mic'd up now with like all the flock cameras that like, I'm like, bomb. And they just swarm me.

• 26:02Speaker 03

  Just immediately gone.

• 26:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  Which honestly is like the only time I think it's cool to use flock cameras is cause I'm so interested when I'm

• 26:09Speaker 04

  Just at the airport.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  We can be fully surveilled in an airport. That's really fine with me.

• 26:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:16Speaker 05

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces. So I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 26:45Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey everyone, this is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say,

• 27:27Speaker 00

  this is what I believe, while your neighbor says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours and theirs are theirs.

• 27:47Speaker 03

  All right, who wants to go next?

• 27:48Speaker 04

  Uh, I have one pulled up.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  Okay, great. Let's do it.

• 27:50Speaker 04

  Okay, so this one, I think we're gonna have a lot of thoughts about.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Oh, fantastic.

• 27:55Speaker 04

  I'm excited for the conversation on this one. So I did read this on an episode, but I want to hear your thoughts.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Okay, great.

• 28:02Speaker 04

  It did bring up a lot of conversation. So this one is called, Man Tried to Lure Me to a Place That Didn't Exist.

• 28:07Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 28:09Speaker 04

  And it starts, when I was around 25 years old, I was working at a tiny restaurant that served desserts. It was a pretty hidden and quiet location, so I was there alone on the mornings. On one occasion, a man walked in and I recognized him from the night before. He had been there with his wife and his grown children. The only other time I had ever seen him, this time he was alone and he began to talk to me. Everything seemed like the typical small talk, but he kept commenting that I looked 19 and saying that he could help me. That he could get me a job that paid seven more dollars an hour than what I was making at the time. I was intrigued at first, so I asked for the name of the company, getting kind of excited. But then he would just keep talking and he would never tell me the name.

• 28:52Speaker 04

  Then he began talking about how he's had all these affairs and that his wife knows about them and is okay with it. Mentioning that he had an affair once with someone who was nineteen.

• 29:02Speaker 03

  Oh, ew.

• 29:02Speaker 04

  Oh, now that girl was happily married and to this day she thanks him.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  Okay, good luck, Chuck.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  He taught her.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  I hate him.

• 29:10Speaker 04

  No, ick. At this point, I started getting creeped out, but he would not stop talking.

• 29:15Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 29:16Speaker 04

  He would not stop pestering me about this job, telling me that I should apply, but still not giving me the name. He would tell me the overall area where the company was, which was by the outskirts of a city, but avoided the name. Kept telling me to follow him after work so that he could get me in, probably to be hired on the spot. I told him my car was getting fixed, so my sister would be picking me up anyways, so I couldn't that day. But since he wouldn't take no for an answer, I eventually decided to tell him that I would, just so he would leave. But as soon as I did, he changed the goal. And now he was telling me that I should just go in his car with him and that way they would see me arrive with him and would hire me right away.

• 29:56Speaker 03

  There's so many red flags to this.

• 29:57Speaker 04

  Uh huh. In between all of this, he randomly shows me a white paper that was supposedly his license to carry. Very random. He also finally gave me the name of the company. Eventually I told him I would go with him and he should come back at the end of the day when I was off. I did this just so he would leave.

• 30:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 04

  I went to the back and I looked at the name of the supposed job and there was nothing. I used Google Maps to search the area that he mentioned and no, not a factory, not anything. Once my time to leave arrived, my sister picked me up from the side of the building and as we drove away, he had indeed come back and he was parked near the location around the corner. I never saw him again. I was recently telling the story to a friend of mine and I do deeply regret not reporting this. I had issues with dissociation due to past life experiences and although I was twenty five at the time, I was much more naive than a lot of twenty five year olds. You never know what people are about, especially with him showing me his license to carry. I hope that me not reporting it did not get anyone else hurt.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Okay, my biggest takeaway here though is like you can't blame yourself and also unfortunately in this situation, like the legal system's not set up to do anything.

• 31:06Speaker 04

  No. Yeah, they're gonna come and be like, oh, well, he didn't commit a crime.

• 31:09Speaker 03

  And he didn't do anything.

• 31:09Speaker 04

  Want us to do.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:11Speaker 03

  But he for sure was trying to either traffic her or kidnap, I mean, something.

• 31:16Speaker 04

  One day it's gonna work on someone, you know, so someone else is gonna be a victim of whatever he was trying to do.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  And if the sister wouldn't have picked them up.

• 31:23Speaker 04

  I know.

• 31:24Speaker 03

  He's there watching, what is he gonna do, just swoop her into the car, like? You can't blame yourself at all because unfortunately, like these people, if they're bad people, they're gonna find a way.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:34Speaker 03

  Like it's, they're gonna find a way.

• 31:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:37Speaker 03

  And you have to protect yourself.

• 31:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 31:39Speaker 04

  And sometimes protecting yourself is just doing whatever in the moment to survive and not worrying about like the larger implications of stuff.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:45Speaker 04

  Hundred percent.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  No, I've really gone into like the responses of like, you know, fight, flight, fawn or freeze.

• 31:53Speaker 04

  What do you think you guys are?

• 31:54Speaker 03

  I think I would be a fawn-er. I like, I think I would be a fawn-er and I don't know what it is, but like, I think I try in situations that really make me uncomfortable. I just like try to placate and play along to hopefully like get through it quicker.

• 32:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  And I, I think that's kind of what that was. It was like a fawn.

• 32:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, even saying like, you can come back later and I'll come, like that's fawning.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  It's smart though.

• 32:17Speaker 04

  Let me just get out of the situation now and I'll figure it out, but the like, I mean, never go to a second location with a person. That was absolutely right just to get him to leave and not go somewhere with him, because that's when you're really in trouble.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  Just like how he just kept going, like, you look nineteen, you look nineteen. I slept with someone that was nineteen and she got married and still thanks me and.

• 32:37Speaker 04

  That's how you know for sure it was like ill intent.

• 32:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:42Speaker 03

  Like you're implying we're gonna sleep.

• 32:43Speaker 04

  And she's so happy, everything I taught her.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:47Speaker 04

  No, that's never how it works out.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  No.

• 32:49Speaker 04

  Why are you like, why are you saying this?

• 32:51Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 32:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  Highly doubt that. Oh, and also the fact that he's married with kids, like they came in the night before. Also scares me because it's like, does the wife know who she's married to? And probably not, because people like that are really good.

• 33:07Speaker 04

  No, this comes up so much, like I think in the Gilgo Beach Killer, like Rex, like did the wife really not know? I know, yeah, I always, always ask that because we like, on clues too, we read all these stories where like, the husband had this weird door in the basement that he always told the wife, if you ever go in there, I'll kill you. And the wife never asked any questions and you're like, is that really, like, did she really have no idea? Or did she just not feel safe, so she didn't say anything?

• 33:33Speaker 03

  Well, and there was something too, I think, in that, those cases, like it was either her belt or the daughter's belt that got used in one of the murders and it's like, people were like, was she involved in any way then? Like, oh, she happened to be out of town every single time.

• 33:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  But it's just like, I think sometimes, yeah, you truly don't know that you're married or you're with a monster.

• 33:57Speaker 04

  A monster.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  Well, and also you kind of want to believe and look for the best, especially in someone that's like your life partner.

• 34:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  That you probably, it's not until like maybe years later, until like the truth comes out that you're like, oh, wait, now that I look back, yeah, there was a lot of things. And this goes for even like unhealthy, toxic relationships that aren't, you're not like married to a murderer.

• 34:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  I know, but I, I wonder too if it's then like the, like frog in a pot of boiling water where like it's the first little lie.

• 34:27Speaker 04

  And you're like, I can excuse that. And then the lies just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And then by the time you're excusing this type of behavior or like you think that there's something going on in the basement, like you, you don't even know how you got there.

• 34:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:39Speaker 04

  Like that to me is really scary is like being in a house with someone or like living with someone who is just like that manipulative and can like slowly creep up the level of what they're doing where you don't notice.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  They're good at it. I know.

• 34:50Speaker 04

  They're so good at it.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  And a lot of times it doesn't change until you're locked in.

• 34:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Married.

• 34:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 34:56Speaker 03

  And then once you're pregnant, that's oftentimes when the switch will really flip.

• 35:01Speaker 04

  I feel like that comes up a lot on your show.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  Oh, it does, because you're in such a vulnerable position and they have so much control and leverage. And you're by that point, you might be disconnected from family and friends. It's just, it's so crazy.

• 35:14Speaker 04

  Again, goes back to like me not trusting humans more than, more than the paranormal.

• 35:20Speaker 03

  I know.

• 35:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:21Speaker 04

  So I'll take Waverly Hills and Appalachia camping.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh. Like maybe I'll move in there. Oh, my gosh.

• 35:29Speaker 04

  I'm gonna marry Bigfoot. Okay, wait, there's, let me read a couple of comments. Just we have like also what the internet thinks.

• 35:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 35:35Speaker 04

  Because sometimes we're totally off base.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  True.

• 35:37Speaker 04

  Sometimes we're wrong.

• 35:38Speaker 03

  Let me hear what they say.

• 35:39Speaker 04

  The top comment is he was either a creep who was up to no good, or he was trying to hook you for his MLM downline. He did kind of have hun energy. We, you don't owe anyone your time or attention. It's fine to say you're not interested and must get back to work. That was like the top comment.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  It does sound like that she tried to kind of say that or end conversation multiple times.

• 35:58Speaker 04

  He was way more persistent.

• 35:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:00Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 36:00Speaker 03

  Also like server, right?

• 36:02Speaker 04

  Or like behind the counter.

• 36:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 04

  And she was alone too.

• 36:05Speaker 03

  Oh, it's just like, what do you do?

• 36:07Speaker 04

  Ask a boss or someone else to help.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  Way more sinister.

• 36:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. Although I will say the most pressured I've ever felt to do anything is when an MLM downline person is talking to me and trying to get me like buy their energy drink.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  That's why they have that job. They're really good at it.

• 36:21Speaker 04

  I know.

• 36:22Speaker 03

  Kaelyn has really bad luck. Like she's ended up in Scientology like courses.

• 36:27Speaker 04

  Before you start telling people, I ended up in Scientology on a podcast that people are gonna listen to. I ended up in the building, I ended up in the building and I wouldn't leave because I was being very nice to them and they kept me there for nine hours until I was crying.

• 36:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:40Speaker 04

  And then they let me leave. Yes, okay, so this is, yeah, when I, whenever I'm like.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Nine hours.

• 36:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was really, and they stole fifty dollars from me too.

• 36:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, they took our money too.

• 36:51Speaker 04

  Did you give it to them and then they never gave it back?

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Maybe by definition.

• 36:56Speaker 04

  I gave them my credit card and then I went home and I canceled my credit card and they found out.

• 37:00Speaker 03

  Why'd you give them your credit card?

• 37:00Speaker 04

  Because I, they told me I could leave if I gave them my credit card.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Okay, you have to.

• 37:04Speaker 04

  She fawned.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  I fawned.

• 37:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  She fawned.

• 37:06Speaker 04

  I, I went into the Scientology building because I thought I was meeting with my friend for lunch. Turns out she was in Scientology. She's like planning the whole thing to just like introduce me to the religion and like see if I wanted to join. But they use these tactics to be like, well, why won't you just take the auditing thing? So next thing I know, or next thing you know, I'm like holding the sticks and being like audited on the thing. And they're like, oh.

• 37:26Speaker 03

  What's the sticks? The spirit, the little spirit, the metal things, the rods?

• 37:30Speaker 04

  The metal things.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Dowsing rods?

• 37:31Speaker 04

  What do they call them?

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Water? Don't they use them to find water?

• 37:34Speaker 04

  Isn't it dowsing rods? No, there's, in Scientology, it's a very specific name. It's, it is auditing. That's what they call auditing. So you hold them and they're connected to a thing that's like reading your energy. So they'll ask you to remember like a traumatic memory and the little lever starts going crazy because they're like, oh, it's upsetting you.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  They start with that.

• 37:50Speaker 04

  They start with that. So they're like, remember?

• 37:52Speaker 03

  How can, how can people say they're not a cult? That's literally the.

• 37:55Speaker 04

  Literally who says they're not a cult, ever like.

• 37:58Speaker 03

  I guess Scientologists say they're not a cult.

• 38:00Speaker 04

  They're the ones saying that. But so then they make you remember this traumatic experience until the lever stops going crazy and kind of comes down and then they're like, oh, you've worked through that memory, like you're healed.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  Thanks to us.

• 38:13Speaker 04

  Because that's how it works. And so then I'm like that, and but they're looking at this lever and they're like, oh no, it's worse than we thought. We think you need to do this next thing. Like we think you need to come take our little quiz.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  Okay, now I understand why it works on people.

• 38:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, so then I kept going, but then it got.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Probably get me.

• 38:26Speaker 04

  It got to a scary point where they're like, we want the, we're gonna have the president come down and he knew where I worked. And he said that he had friends at my job and he said that they would be really disappointed if Monday morning I went in.

• 38:38Speaker 03

  How old were you? How did they find that info that quick though?

• 38:40Speaker 04

  And I just started at a job because they Googled me. They knew who I, like, they must have like looked up my LinkedIn or something.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  You were meeting a friend.

• 38:47Speaker 04

  And I was meeting a friend, so she must have told them.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:49Speaker 04

  So then it got scary and that's when they were like, now give us fifty dollars.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  Oh, I would have given them way more.

• 38:54Speaker 04

  So then I, well, they, they did ask for three fifty and I like was able to like, I, I, I don't even think I had that much money in my bank. So I think they were just like, we'll just take whatever you have. They took my credit card, then they made me sign up for a class and then they were like, actually, the class starts right now. And then they put me in the classroom and then I had to take the class. I ended up being able to finally.

• 39:11Speaker 03

  Oh, thank God.

• 39:12Speaker 04

  And then they called me for so long. Do you want to hear the voicemail? Was it you still?

• 39:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 39:17Speaker 04

  I'm gonna get in trouble with them.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  You still have them?

• 39:20Speaker 04

  You got, of course I still have them.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  To know too much. Yeah, no, I honestly, I have a couple of listeners on my podcast, who takes that are in the church of Scientology. One of which used to be a part of C org. So when I read a story, I read a story that was like this girl who was like, I went to go meet my boyfriend's family and like turns out they're in Scientology and they had C org members working the property. And literally I had people reach out to me and be like, C org's not bad. And I'm like.

• 39:50Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  Okay, bye. Oh, my gosh.

• 39:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. Want to hear these voicemails?

• 39:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:56Speaker 06

  Um, hello Caitlin, this is again, I'm sorry if there was something upsetting that happened to you when you were here. Or whatever, but the best way to handle anything is by fur- further communication, not less. So it's one of the things that we learn here in Scientology. So I'm calling you back with the hope that you um will uh.

• 40:24Speaker 04

  And I guess it ends there, but.

• 40:26Speaker 03

  Hope that you will.

• 40:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was a lot of them calling me being like, if you're mad, like you need to talk to us.

• 40:31Speaker 03

  Or whatever.

• 40:32Speaker 04

  Or whatever.

• 40:33Speaker 03

  If you were upset or whatever.

• 40:35Speaker 04

  Yeah. It sounds like that it even has like an evil undertone in the way that.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  It's like, you better call me back or else.

• 40:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, yeah, the in the reverse psychology too of like.

• 40:46Speaker 04

  I don't know if like something upset you here, but you need to communicate more.

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Garvo.

• 40:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm so.

• 40:53Speaker 04

  Scary.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 40:55Speaker 04

  I also imagine that there's people because like in my mind, I'm like, wow, I kind of want to go infiltrate. But then I feel like, are there people who have tried to infiltrate and then they get sucked in and then they just get lost, you know?

• 41:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:06Speaker 04

  I would say to anyone who's interested in going, just don't bring a credit, don't bring any form of ID and don't bring any cash.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  Or maybe just don't.

• 41:12Speaker 04

  Don't go.

• 41:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, or don't go, but if you are really curious, you can probably do it and be fine, like let someone know you're going and then just don't bring anything that they could like.

• 41:20Speaker 04

  Take.

• 41:21Speaker 03

  It wasn't you or my friend Lauren, so I'm getting everything confused, but I think it was my friend Lauren who in college had to do. A class where each person in the class picked a religion and then they went to that.

• 41:33Speaker 04

  I had to do that too in college.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  Interesting. And so one of the people in the class did Scientology and came back absolutely traumatized. Yeah.

• 41:41Speaker 04

  Oh no.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, and like the teacher like, I was like, okay, whoa, why, why'd you go there? So I don't know, I feel like there's enough docs.

• 41:50Speaker 04

  You know, one kid like, I went to a mosque and it was so lovely.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  It was beautiful.

• 41:54Speaker 04

  To church and then the Scientology person just like.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  Just shoveled hair.

• 41:58Speaker 04

  How to drop out of school.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, like came back traumatized.

• 42:02Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  All right.

• 42:05Speaker 04

  Any other, any other comments? Oh, let me see, someone else said, okay, and I liked this comment, I think it's important to say that for me, you did good. We never know how we're going to react in these situations until we face them. You did what you could to be safe, pretending to be a little interested in the job may have saved you from physical violence. We really don't know what a dude in a desert area might do to us. Don't worry about reporting or not reporting him, you did your best and now that you're older, you can help someone if you see them in a similar situation.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  I love when someone on Reddit is kind and empathetic.

• 42:36Speaker 04

  You know, yeah, exactly.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:38Speaker 04

  Because I think that is the main takeaway. It's like.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 42:41Speaker 04

  Don't worry about what you had to do to survive.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:44Speaker 04

  You survived.

• 42:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 42:45Speaker 04

  And that just matters.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  There's so many weirdos out there. I just saw a video from um Reb Maisel, she's a lawyer.

• 42:53Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  Um, and she was breaking down this video or this case that just kind of came out of this funeral director or like someone. Who kept taking body parts as trophies. And it's just like, there's, there's just so many people or medical examiner, he was like the state's medical examiner.

• 43:09Speaker 04

  Why does that happen? That happens too much.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  And it's in a state where you actually don't need a medical degree to be the medical examiner.

• 43:15Speaker 04

  There was a whole documentary about that.

• 43:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, Colorado.

• 43:18Speaker 04

  Maybe they changed it, but like, that's why all the weird.

• 43:21Speaker 03

  Like there was that one guy who was like franking, like franking bodying corpses.

• 43:25Speaker 04

  What's that one?

• 43:27Speaker 03

  This happened like maybe like five years ago, yeah, like a similar situation where like you don't need a, like go to get a medical license at all. He was doing like forensics on bodies and like cutting them up and like re- attaching pieces to, yeah.

• 43:43Speaker 04

  This is insane. So it is Illinois and the, the examiner was Wesley Highland. And so there was like a murder case and he was the examiner on this murder case and he kept her skull. And so when he just passed away, he just passed away like somewhat recently and the family's going through all of his stuff and found at least three skulls. And so they just returned the skull of this girl that was murdered to the family. And the family tried to sue and they, they can't because you can't sue legally and it's just like, it's such a mess.

• 44:18Speaker 03

  But so sad.

• 44:19Speaker 04

  To say like, there's so many just sickos out there. And it's just like, how do you stop them? Like it just, stuff like this keeps happening.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:28Speaker 04

  And so there's only so much you can do.

• 44:30Speaker 03

  Because like, yeah, how do you stop someone like that especially?

• 44:33Speaker 04

  Because you're not in the room with them.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  When people ask me why I would want to be abducted by aliens, I should just be like, listen to this episode.

• 44:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  Take me away.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  Beat me up.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:43Speaker 04

  So true.

• 44:45Speaker 03

  What do you think about aliens?

• 44:47Speaker 04

  I think they're out there.

• 44:48Speaker 03

  Would you like to be abducted? Is that a part of, is that third part of our girl's trip?

• 44:52Speaker 04

  It depends on what it looks like. If it looks like Asgard, you know, like Thorville. Out there with like a little rainbow bridge and.

• 45:00Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 45:01Speaker 04

  You know, yeah.

• 45:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:03Speaker 04

  But if we're thinking like traditional aliens, green, you know, probing, no.

• 45:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:08Speaker 04

  I was watching um Independence Day on the 4th of July.

• 45:11Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 45:11Speaker 04

  Patriotic, yeah. And as I was watching it, I was like, oh, what is, I guess scientifically speaking, like agreed upon by science, like the closest we've come to. Determining that there is life out there and it was actually something that was found just this past fall.

• 45:26Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 45:26Speaker 04

  There was a rock found on Mars that had like, I guess there is a chance that it was something organic that, or not organic, but just like some sort of. Physiological thing that happened with like gas on the planet, but like they opened this rock apparently and it looked like there had been life there.

• 45:40Speaker 03

  Like a fossil.

• 45:41Speaker 04

  Not really a fossil, but something about like the air bubbles. It was like something that like a living thing would have made. So that technically is like the closest.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 45:50Speaker 04

  Aside from like all those farmers out there that are like, I was abducted.

• 45:52Speaker 03

  And like Area 51.

• 45:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:55Speaker 03

  How do you explain crop circles though?

• 45:57Speaker 04

  Do you think someone's going out there late at night doing it?

• 45:59Speaker 03

  No, I, well, I think some of them.

• 46:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, I agree.

• 46:02Speaker 03

  There's some people that are like, I want in on this and they're like doing it to their own, but I don't know.

• 46:08Speaker 04

  Like some of those crop circles are pretty intense.

• 46:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, they are gorgeous. That's a good way to put it. It's art.

• 46:14Speaker 04

  It is art.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 04

  I don't know, what, what to you like is the most, like that you've heard is the, oh, there's aliens and they've been here.

• 46:24Speaker 03

  I don't know. I, I feel like for me, I look at legends, like the lost city of Atlantis. And I'm like, where to go? Did it really just sink under and we can't find it? I feel like aliens have been here previously.

• 46:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:39Speaker 03

  And I feel like they're just, they're like, yeah, they're not worthy right now. Like I feel like genuinely, I think Earth is like a Truman Show.

• 46:45Speaker 04

  I do believe that.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  We're the reality TV.

• 46:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:48Speaker 03

  Okay, so then there was like another theory that aliens.

• 46:51Speaker 04

  She's weird.

• 46:52Speaker 03

  No, but that's true. I feel the same way. No, I mean, you're joined, you're in the right space. You're talking to listeners who hear us talk about conspiracy theories on a regular basis. But there was a theory that we heard where it was like, what if aliens are actually, because what is time, right? It's a construct that we've made up. What if aliens are actually humans from the future coming back? Because who's more interested in humans than humans?

• 47:19Speaker 04

  Hmm. Yeah, I definitely believe in some sort of like alternate dimensions where there are things out there that interact with time differently than us and can probably come back and forth.

• 47:29Speaker 03

  I do believe in like a multiverse, like there's so many different dimensions where it's like you, you probably exist in other planes.

• 47:36Speaker 04

  I think so.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, infinite universes.

• 47:39Speaker 04

  I do believe in that. That's where it starts getting really.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  I know, when you spend too much time.

• 47:43Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, I heard about this thing the other day about, so astronauts, when they go to space and they look at Earth, you know how like it's supposed to make people better people, you like see it and you're like, oh my gosh.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Like Katy Perry?

• 47:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, like Katy Perry sees it. There is, did you know there's like a reverse thing that happens when you look the other way? When you look out, they call it something like space sickness or like there's a word for it, but it's like.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  Give me anxiety.

• 48:03Speaker 04

  The deep sense of like existential dread you feel when you look out at the rest of space and realize how big and scary and empty it is. Like that would send me into a coma.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, like the fact that our universe is literally endless.

• 48:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that's what's like so upsetting to me if we're going to talk about like global climate change real fast, like. I think the Artemis astronauts, like the entire time they were up there, they were just praising how beautiful and special Earth is. And to me, I look at it and I'm like, we have all these like people with a lot of money billionaires doing this insane space race and we're like. Harvesting all the Earth's minerals and stuff and it's like, but to get where? Yeah, right.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  We can't, we don't have like light speed travel yet.

• 48:44Speaker 04

  No.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  How far can you really get? And at our planet's, like this beautiful little thing's sake?

• 48:52Speaker 04

  I just started watching Paradise. Have you guys seen that? It's on Hulu.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  No.

• 48:56Speaker 04

  But it's like, you know, in the show, the president and like these ultra-rich people know that they're always going to be okay and they've like built this underground city.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  Doomsday prep.

• 49:06Speaker 04

  So it's like, they almost just don't care, or I don't, I don't know. So Billie Eilish is, I love Billie Eilish, but she won some award for like how much she donates and like how much she gives back.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:19Speaker 04

  And like in her speech, she was like, it's so dumb.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:23Speaker 04

  That billionaires exist. You don't need that much fucking money.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remember everyone getting mad at her.

• 49:28Speaker 04

  But I love that. Like, yeah, it's true. Billionaires used to be cool. Like Carnegie, they would build halls.

• 49:34Speaker 03

  I don't think they were as cool as you think.

• 49:35Speaker 04

  No, no, no. Still not cool.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  Kaelyn, we're trying to make them give money away. They were so sick back in the day. Carnegie building those halls.

• 49:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:47Speaker 03

  Come on.

• 49:48Speaker 04

  No, there was, actually someone did say that about how like,

• 49:50Speaker 03

  Libraries.

• 49:51Speaker 04

  It used to be when you were a billionaire, there were like all of these buildings that you had donated to and your name was on everything because you were like contributing to museums.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  You're actually doing.

• 49:59Speaker 04

  Oh, I was just watching a thing on Getty too. Obviously, we have the two Getty centers out here and it's like, you just don't have that anymore.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  No, that's, that's why I'm not like, not cool.

• 50:06Speaker 04

  I get it, I get it, I get it.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  Like, just donate money, guys. Come on.

• 50:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a rabbit hole, though. I really went down the, like, I think New Zealand. They're all like buying property and building bunkers.

• 50:18Speaker 04

  All the billionaires. There's two types of people in America that doomsday prep. And it's like conspiracy theorists, people who like live in like the middle of nowhere and like hoard weapons, and billionaires. And like, those are the two that are doomsday preppers.

• 50:30Speaker 03

  I am, I'm, I'm curious to hear your perspectives, but if it were the end of the world today and someone was like, hey, I'll give you a spot in a bunker, I think I'd say no. Because I just don't want to be a part of, one, especially if I can't be with like my loved ones and stuff. I'm like, what's the point?

• 50:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:48Speaker 03

  I don't think I'm important enough to restart the world.

• 50:52Speaker 04

  No.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  And that just, I don't know, I'd just rather die with everyone else.

• 50:57Speaker 04

  Depends on how the world's ending, though. What if it was like, oh, the world's gonna like burn up? I'd be like, ooh, that sounds really scary. But if it was like, you're all just getting vaporized immediately.

• 51:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're in LA, we're in a blast zone, so we're probably going pretty quick.

• 51:09Speaker 04

  And also what's after? Like, the world's ending, it's nuclear winter.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  I don't want to fight people over a candy.

• 51:15Speaker 04

  Like learn how to farm, I'm not doing that.

• 51:17Speaker 03

  No. I will say, Costco just had a really great deal on like the military meals. So I do have a year's supply of military meals in my garage.

• 51:27Speaker 04

  So it's like, people that all know we're billionaires.

• 51:28Speaker 03

  Going to Morgan's.

• 51:31Speaker 03

  I have horses in my backyard, so if we can't find gas, we will ride the horses out of town.

• 51:36Speaker 04

  I love it.

• 51:36Speaker 03

  This is great.

• 51:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay.

• 51:38Speaker 03

  You can all come over.

• 51:39Speaker 04

  If, if we find ourselves still alive.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:43Speaker 04

  We will head to your house.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  We'll meet at Morgan's and then we'll come up with a plan.

• 51:46Speaker 04

  We'll rendezvous and then figure out where we're going.

• 51:50Speaker 05

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces. So I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece, and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 52:20Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone, this is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe.

• 53:03Speaker 00

  While your neighbor says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  Okay, my turn, I suppose. Okay, this one is coming from AITAH. It's basically an Am I the Asshole sub? And it's titled, "Am I the Asshole for being angry that my roommate was sleeping under my bed for months without telling me?"

• 53:38Speaker 04

  What the fuck?

• 53:39Speaker 03

  What? Okay. "I, 24 male, have lived with my roommate Carl, 24 male, for two years. A few months in a rooming with him, he told me he was pansexual. I said, okay, cool. I'm not interested in that personal information, nor am I judgmental. I just said, all right. A few times over the last year, he asked me if I have ever considered experimenting with other men. I said, nope. Also, I said, I didn't feel comfortable with him asking me such personal questions. It's not like we are close friends. We are only roommates by happenstance, basically. Anyways, every time I said this, he basically said, we'll see."

• 54:19Speaker 04

  Ugh.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  Ugh. I was like, what? Anyways, last night, I had a horrifying experience. I heard a noise under my bed. It was movement. At first, I thought I was imagining things, but then I heard it again. I thought, oh, God, is it a mouse or a rat or some shit? This was like 3:00 AM, so I got out of bed and I looked under with my phone flashlight. Now, this here was the most startling moment of my life. I guess I am lucky because I have never before this moment felt true terror and fear

• 55:01Speaker 03

  as a physical sensation, but I was completely jolted. There, under my bed, was my roommate staring wide-eyed at me.

• 55:12Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  And he screeched when I looked under the bed.

• 55:16Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 55:16Speaker 03

  Oh. I literally thought I was having a heart attack. I then just started hearing, quote, "Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry." My roommate crawled out from under the bed, crying, apologizing over and over. I was so creeped out and afraid that I ran out of the apartment in my pajamas. There was a Dunkin' Donut that was open 24/7, a few blocks away.

• 55:40Speaker 04

  Thank God for Dunkin'.

• 55:41Speaker 03

  Dunkin' to the rescue. So I just sat in there with a decaf and a breakfast sandwich with my heart thundering away. My roommate kept texting me, asking to talk. I ignored it. In the text, he found a way to horrify me even further.

• 55:58Speaker 04

  Oh, no.

• 55:59Speaker 03

  He confessed that he had been sleeping under my bed a few nights a week for, quote, "three to four months."

• 56:08Speaker 04

  Why confess to that?

• 56:11Speaker 03

  I know. And that he was doing it to get closer to me and physically saturate each other.

• 56:22Speaker 04

  What the hell does that mean? This reminds me of the story my science teacher told me in high school where like her pet snake was like measuring itself next to her in bed, like, to see if it was big enough to eat her. Like, this feels like that.

• 56:38Speaker 03

  OP literally says, "The fuck?"

• 56:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:41Speaker 03

  "I waited for him to go to work and I ran into the apartment, got my essentials, and left. I'm currently crashing with a buddy. Our lease is up in one month. My intention is to simply not renew. This dude is blowing up my phone, though, and I'm getting texts from other people. Some friends of mine and some bozos who are friends with him. He is going around telling people that I shamed him and that I am rejecting his apologies. Some people are claiming that I'm overreacting and I'm invalidating his feelings.

• 57:16Speaker 04

  Nope.

• 57:17Speaker 03

  Most people agree he was improper, but think that I should work it out with him and give a second chance because he's sensitive. I feel like I'm losing my mind, and I'm seriously 20% convinced I'm experiencing a long, lucid dream of some sort and wondering if I'm going to wake up or I'm in a coma or something, because this shit is so insane to me. Like, not really, but maybe really? I mean, what the fuck? So, am I the asshole or is everyone around me a fucking nut?"

• 57:49Speaker 04

  Everyone's a nut.

• 57:50Speaker 03

  I think everyone might be a nut.

• 57:52Speaker 04

  I think you're underreacting.

• 57:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, actually.

• 57:55Speaker 04

  Restraining order would be like, out of the lease, restraining order, block the number, done.

• 58:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And the fact that this guy won't stop and is getting everyone else involved.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  That, the flying monkeys of it all.

• 58:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, because it's one thing to be like, okay, listen, he's not gonna accept my apology, I'm just gonna leave it at that. But it's, there's like an obsession.

• 58:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:16Speaker 03

  What does it mean to physically saturate each other?

• 58:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If you think about that.

• 58:22Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 58:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think like mind meld in a way.

• 58:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think that's, it must be.

• 58:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, if it's something weird of like, oh, when you're asleep and I'm under you, like, we're both getting each other's energy. It just feels so violating.

• 58:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so violating.

• 58:35Speaker 03

  I'm trying to steal your essence, I'm trying to merge with you.

• 58:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or like make you become obsessed with me by being close to you.

• 58:42Speaker 03

  Where's the voodoo doll? Are we under there with a voodoo doll too? I just literally, I was like, what are you doing under there? You, then my head goes down really bad.

• 58:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  I'm like, what are you doing under that bed?

• 58:52Speaker 04

  Well, what's annoying is when, because the roommate texted the friend saying like, he's trying to shame me.

• 58:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:58Speaker 04

  And it's like, I mean, as a society, we have, there's some kinks we have to kink shame.

• 59:02Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 59:03Speaker 04

  It reminds me of this one story I read on Reddit that was like, it's the most Reddit story ever, but it was like, it was literally like an, am I the asshole? Like, my husband has this kink, like, am I the asshole for shaming him for it? And it was, his kink was literally, he would go to dinner, like with her family, like a family dinner, and he would stand up in the middle of the dinner.

• 59:20Speaker 03

  And pee.

• 59:21Speaker 04

  Oh, I seem to have peed myself. And he'd be soaking his own pee. And that was like his thing, but it had to be in front of people.

• 59:29Speaker 03

  It was an embarrassment kink.

• 59:30Speaker 04

  Like if it's something that other people are not consenting to, and now you've done it to them, no.

• 59:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's what I was gonna say is, I think a kink can be shamed when you are putting someone else in a situation that is deeply uncomfortable for them and they did not consent to.

• 59:43Speaker 03

  Yes, 100%. Consent is always needed.

• 59:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If you're looking at feet, and like, that's fine.

• 59:48Speaker 03

  Have fun.

• 59:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 59:49Speaker 03

  If it doesn't hurt anyone and everyone's consenting, like, yeah. No, I covered another one that's even worse than that, where this woman's partner was jerking off into jars. Sleeping with other men and having those other men jerk off into the jars and kept the jars under the sink. And when he would make her breakfast, he would put it in her food.

• 1:00:11Speaker 04

  I'm like actually gonna like, no, my gag reflex is so bad.

• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  I'm so sorry, everyone, I'm so, so, so sorry.

• 1:00:18Speaker 04

  I'm gonna have to breathe through my nose.

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  I mean, I really.

• 1:00:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Take a breath, take a pause.

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  The whole emphasis.

• 1:00:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Rainbows, butterflies.

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This whole episode is just emphasizing the fact that human beings are way worse than anything.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  I'm so sorry, this whole episode's like a trauma dump.

• 1:00:31Speaker 04

  No, I love it.

• 1:00:32Speaker 03

  Bears don't fill up jars like that, you know?

• 1:00:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Good point.

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  There's the title, bears don't fill up jars.

• 1:00:40Speaker 04

  With their semen, like.

• 1:00:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, neither does Bigfoot.

• 1:00:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, Bigfoot would never.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  Bigfoot would never.

• 1:00:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bigfoot would never.

• 1:00:48Speaker 03

  But I mean, how do you, like, you can't proceed forward, obviously this person's not overreacting.

• 1:00:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, not at all.

• 1:00:55Speaker 04

  Like, no, and not only like not proceeding forward, but there has to be, like, you can get out of the lease for that, surely. You know, like, there has to be some way you can separate from this person.

• 1:01:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or like get them removed from that.

• 1:01:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, whatever, yeah.

• 1:01:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I also would want to move out immediately because they know where you live.

• 1:01:11Speaker 04

  I, yes, yes.

• 1:01:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But that would make me feel so unsafe, like moving, like the trauma that you get from that. Every night I went to bed, even if you had a lock on your bedroom door and all your windows were closed, I would feel so unsafe going to bed.

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  My mattress would be on the ground.

• 1:01:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:01:26Speaker 03

  Like, I, it would be really difficult to come back from this trauma and like, yeah. And it's like, how is he getting in there so sneakily and quietly and three to four months or whatever? I'm like, no, we've been living together for two years, you've definitely been doing it longer.

• 1:01:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Longer.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  Way longer.

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  I know, that, I guess they didn't have a lock on the door, they weren't locking the door.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  Or that person had a key.

• 1:01:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or they know how to pick a lock.

• 1:01:49Speaker 04

  I think they pick a lock.

• 1:01:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But also like, when I had roommates, I didn't lock my door. I don't know.

• 1:01:55Speaker 04

  No, I don't think I ever had, it wasn't common to have locks on your doors, I guess, in rented places.

• 1:02:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My ex did put a lock on his door in college because his roommate was like a klepto.

• 1:02:05Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh. Yeah.

• 1:02:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But that's the only time I've ever been in a situation where I know someone who has roommates who locks their door.

• 1:02:10Speaker 03

  I did put a lock on my door because I came home early from like a trip once and there were like men sleeping in my bed.

• 1:02:18Speaker 04

  What?

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:19Speaker 04

  Was it like your roommate had people over?

• 1:02:20Speaker 03

  My roommate had people over, like, and she let her boyfriend's friends sleep in my bed.

• 1:02:24Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:02:25Speaker 03

  I literally found like, ugh, it was bad.

• 1:02:27Speaker 04

  Gross.

• 1:02:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. No, so then I added a lock.

• 1:02:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And that's fair, yeah.

• 1:02:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, then you have to.

• 1:02:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's like, it's usually prompted by something making you want to put a lock.

• 1:02:35Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:02:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  Top comment on this one, 17K votes, dude is not mentally stable and you need to get out of there. Sounds like he would end up wearing your skin or some shit to physically saturate with you.

• 1:02:50Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:02:50Speaker 03

  The snake, that, why was the snake in her bed?

• 1:02:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It just kept breaking out of its cage. And she like asked the vet, she's like, why do, why do I keep waking up with my snake breaking out of its cage and it's in bed with me? And the vet was like, oh yeah, it's measuring to see if it's long enough to eat you.

• 1:03:06Speaker 03

  Oh no, that snake's going to a rescue.

• 1:03:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, multiple times it broke out of the cage and she didn't bring it to a rescue, but like, what it does.

• 1:03:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Snake rescue, snake sanctuary.

• 1:03:14Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:03:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No thanks. Not that I would ever get a snake before that, but like that, like if I ever have a child who wants a pet snake, I, no, not happening.

• 1:03:23Speaker 04

  Not if it's big enough to measure itself against you.

• 1:03:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:03:27Speaker 04

  How big are we talking? That's wild.

• 1:03:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Scary.

• 1:03:29Speaker 03

  That's insane.

• 1:03:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Wow, these were great.

• 1:03:33Speaker 04

  I'm really gonna think about that last one for like a long time and not in a good way.

• 1:03:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The physically saturate.

• 1:03:40Speaker 04

  Is that a thing, wait, I'm gonna look that up real quick, is that like a spiritual thing people do?

• 1:03:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That story also reminds me of the scary stories told in the dark, the, um, people can lick too.

• 1:03:50Speaker 04

  What?

• 1:03:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Have you never heard the story?

• 1:03:52Speaker 03

  I've read those books, but I don't remember this one.

• 1:03:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's the one where, and I'm just gonna like truncate it and probably butcher it, but basically every night, this girl would sleep with her dog next to the side of her bed. And she would, like, the dog would like lick her hand occasionally. But one night she's like scared and she keeps hearing like this dripping noise. And she like keeps like putting her hand down to check on her dog. And she get, like, is getting licked. And then in the morning she like wakes up and finds the dog dead in the shower and in its blood it said, people can lick too.

• 1:04:26Speaker 03

  Sickos. How were we allowed to read those as kids?

• 1:04:29Speaker 04

  I know, those are like made for third graders.

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  I'm pretty sure a librarian read a couple of stories out of it when I was in like second or third grade.

• 1:04:37Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh, I remember reading Coraline when I was in the third grade and being like, I don't think I'm okay after this.

• 1:04:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, that's why, there's a whole generation of us doing creepy podcasts.

• 1:04:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's so true.

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  God, that's insane. I mean, I think that's one thing that really scares me and I'm, knock on wood, that like I'm thankful for is like the sleep paralysis demon of it all. Like, so much stuff happens when you're sleeping and you're just, you're so vulnerable.

• 1:05:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So vulnerable.

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  That like, the paranormal stories around like, I was in my bed, woke up, saw someone, like, oh, that stuff really gets me.

• 1:05:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's a whole like Facebook group about sleep paralysis that I joined and that's like, it's a terrifying.

• 1:05:17Speaker 03

  Do you have it?

• 1:05:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I've had it one time.

• 1:05:19Speaker 04

  Will you add me to that group?

• 1:05:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I'll add you to it, yeah.

• 1:05:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I had it one time recently, actually, because I was in Edinburgh, Scotland, and I went to Bloody Mackenzie's tombstone on, or his like mausoleum on a tour. And the tour guy was like, who wants to play a game? And I have done the paranormal, I've done this podcast for nine years, but for some reason, I'm there by myself, I go, I do?

• 1:05:47Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:05:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then I had committed, I had said it out loud, there's a group of strangers being like, okay, this girl's playing a game, I, I have to do it. So I go up and she's like, okay, you have to repeat after me. And I basically played essentially a Bloody Mary, but the Bloody Mackenzie version where you're calling him forth. Like, the whole thing is taunting him, being like, come out, I dare you. The whole time in my head, I'm like, I'm joking, ha ha, I don't actually mean it, intention means something, I don't want this, I don't want this.

• 1:06:13Speaker 04

  Nope.

• 1:06:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Nothing happens in that moment and I go home that night, I'm staying at a hotel, I'm by myself, I like FaceTime my nieces to like, you know, just like get rid of whatever bad juju I had just actually invited. And then that night I fell asleep and I had a terrifying nightmare that I'm walking through the streets of Edinburgh. And I'm walking down one of those little like alleys, the closes, and all the people start moving away. And I can feel there's someone at the end of the close staring at me. And it's like, I start to feel pure evil and dread. And I look and there's this entity with like melty features. And I woke up and I was like, I don't like that, it felt very real, like it felt like, oh, something's like letting me know it's around.

• 1:06:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I said, you're not welcome here, no thank you, like, not doing that. And I like felt fine enough to go back to sleep. I flip over onto my stomach and truly immediately, my entire body was frozen. And I feel what feels like hands on my ankles slowly start to move my legs apart. And I'm.

• 1:07:20Speaker 03

  What the fuck?

• 1:07:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fully awake, like, it's not like, oh, I flipped over and started falling back to sleep.

• 1:07:25Speaker 03

  No, that's fully awake.

• 1:07:26Speaker 04

  I think that was a visitation.

• 1:07:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I was paralyzed and I was like screaming, stop, no, no, no. And it probably only lasted 30 seconds, if that.

• 1:07:37Speaker 03

  But 30 seconds, that feels like a lifetime in something like that.

• 1:07:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I slammed my legs back together, finally was able to like say no, like out loud, and at that second, I was able to close my legs. And I like flipped over, I turned lights off, I said, no, you're not allowed here, like, get the hell out of here. And didn't have anything after that, but I 100% believe it's because I taunted.

• 1:07:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Even if it wasn't Bloody Mackenzie.

• 1:07:59Speaker 03

  They were sending a message, like, you think you're gonna be funny, we'll show you funny.

• 1:08:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:03Speaker 03

  That was, I like, I hear that and full blown chills and I'm like, that was a spirit visiting you.

• 1:08:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  100%.

• 1:08:10Speaker 03

  That's not, I don't even think that's sleep paralysis, I, I genuinely think that is fully real.

• 1:08:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:15Speaker 03

  And even like sleep paralysis, I'm like, why does everyone see a similar figure? I think it is a haunting.

• 1:08:19Speaker 04

  It's like something in there that like is going into Oliver's subconscious or something, I don't know.

• 1:08:24Speaker 03

  I need to watch the Care Bears before bed.

• 1:08:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh my god.

• 1:08:28Speaker 04

  Is that your feel-good show?

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  Care Bears, I have not put that on for quite some time, but after this.

• 1:08:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Are you watching Widows Bay? It's spooky, but in like such a heartfelt way.

• 1:08:39Speaker 03

  No, I've been on my Bright Creatures and voicemails for Isabel. And I watched Hamnet, I've been in my feels and crying a lot.

• 1:08:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, I can't do Hamnet.

• 1:08:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Are you guys Love Island fans?

• 1:08:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, UK though.

• 1:08:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  UK, okay, I'm a UK.

• 1:08:54Speaker 03

  I gotta catch up.

• 1:08:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:56Speaker 04

  Everyone tells me to watch it, it feels like a commitment.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  It's too late for you now.

• 1:08:59Speaker 04

  Episodes, I know.

• 1:09:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If you start in the beginning with the seasons, it's easier to stay on top of it.

• 1:09:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or if you have to clean.

• 1:09:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:09:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If you want like a background show, just keep it rolling, because you don't need to really pay attention to everything.

• 1:09:11Speaker 04

  Got it, okay.

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:09:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:12Speaker 04

  I'll try.

• 1:09:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, thank you both so much for joining.

• 1:09:15Speaker 03

  Thanks for having us.

• 1:09:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thanks for stepping in while Corinne is on maternity leave.

• 1:09:19Speaker 03

  We love you Corinne, we miss you.

• 1:09:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We miss Corinne, obviously, but it was nice to have you both on the show.

• 1:09:23Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:09:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, do you want to do the sign off? Haylin, you've done it before, but okay, so it's also weird because usually Corinne does part of it. We will see you on the other side. Also weird for me because I usually whisper it and Corinne usually says it.

• 1:09:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bye.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

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