Pod Insights The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch 20VC: Why Founders Should Not Always Be Raising, How To Build Relationships with VCs In A Condensed Timeframe, Why The Founder To VC Relationship Is Not Like A Marriage with Dave Vasen, Founder & CEO @ Brightwheel About this episode Dave Vasen is the Founder & CEO @ Brightwheel, the child management software solution you need and now the #1 platform for early education. To date, with Brightwheel, Dave has raised over $33m in funding from some of the best in the business including Bessemer, GGV Capital, Lowercase Capital, Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, our friends at Eniac Ventures and then the likes of Mark Cuban and Chris Sacca. As for Dave, prior to Brightwheel, he was a VP of Product @ AltSchool and before that spent 3 years at Amazon in numerous different roles including Head of K-12 Education on Kindle and developed and launched the “Made for Kindle” licensing program – both domestic and global. In Today’s Episode You Will Learn: 1.) How Dave made his way into the world of edtech and startups from being a consultant at Bain and product manager at Amazon? 2.) Why does Dave fundamentally disagree that founders should always be raising? What is the right way that founders should approach the fundraise? How can founders turn down investor meetings politely when requested and they are not raising? What is the right way to think about capital as a weapon today and the effective allocation of it? 3.) Why does Dave disagree with many elements that the Founder/VC relationship is a marriage? What one element, other than capital, does Dave most look for in a potential investor? What can founders do to really compress the fundraise timeline? How can founders build relationships with VCs under these compressed conditions? 4.) In the valley there is a large amount of glorification around the scaling and founding of companies, how does Dave feel personally about this glorification? How would Dave like to see this mindset fundamentally change? In terms of mindsets, why does Dave push back against the suggestion of VC "pattern recognition"? How has being an older founder and father changed the way he thinks about building Brightwheel today? 5.) How does Dave interpret the meaning of focus today with regards to company building? How does Dave determine the elements to really double down on? How does Dave think about saying no to opportunities? What framework does he use? What have been some of Dave's biggest learnings on culture and being prescriptive around it? Items Mentioned In Today’s Show: Dave’s Fave Book: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable As always you can follow Harry, The Twenty Minute VC and Dave on Twitter here! Likewise, you can follow Harry on Instagram here for mojito madness and all things 20VC.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Harry Stebbings? We are back for one of our final weeks before the Christmas break here on the 20 minute VC and Founders Friday with me, Harry Stebbings. And I would love to welcome you behind the scenes to my Christmas break and the festivities there. And you can do that on Instagram at H Stebbings 1996 with two Bs. But to the show today, and I have to say, this one was so much fun to record and just a truly phenomenal entrepreneur. And so I'm thrilled to welcome Dave Vasen to the Hot Seat today. Now, Dave is the founder and CEO at Brightwheel, the child management software solution you need, and now the number one platform for early education. To date with Brightwheel, Dave has raised over $33 million in funding from some of the very best in the business, including Bessemer, GGV, Lowercase, the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, our friends at Eniac, and then the likes of Mark Cuban and Chris Sacca, just to name a few.
0:45 Harry Stebbings? As for Dave, though, prior to Brightwheel, he was a VP of Product at Alt School. And before that, spent three years at Amazon in numerous different roles, including Head of K12 Education on Kindle, and developed and launched the Made for Kindle Licensing Program, both domestically and globally. And I do also want to say a huge thank you to the wonderful Mr. Matt Mazzio and the teams at Eniac, Bessemer, and GGV for providing such fantastic question suggestions today. I really do so appreciate that. But before we dive into the show today, as a VC, making new investments and working with founders is your top priority. So instead of worrying about scaling your back office, you need a fund administration partner. Much like how Carter changed how private companies manage their cap tables and 409A valuations, Carter are now doing the same for Fund Admin.
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2:50 Harry Stebbings? investors. And you can check them out today at startengine.com/20vc to invest before the IPO. But without further ado, I'm now very delighted to welcome Dave Vaston, founder and CEO at Brightwheel.
3:08 Speaker 01 You have now arrived at your destination.
3:11 Harry Stebbings? Well, Dave, it is such a pleasure to have you on the show today. I've heard so many great things from so many teams being Eniac, lowercase, Bessemer. So thank you so much for joining me today, Dave.
3:20 Speaker 02 Thank you, Harry. I'm a fan. I appreciate the chance to be here. To be honest, it'll be a new experience to not be listening to you on double speed, but I'm looking forward to the conversation.
3:27 Harry Stebbings? Well, that is very kind and what a start to any episode. But I want to start today with a little about you. So tell me, how did you make your way into the world of startups? And did you always dream of reinventing the software platforms for preschools with Brightwheel? And what was that aha moment for you?
3:41 Speaker 02 Yeah, so I'll go way back and just say I'm a first generation American. My parents came to the US with very little. And so, education was their bedrock and thereby was my bedrock. And in many ways, has been a focus of my career. So, I started my career doing online learning with Cisco. I did strategy work with Teach for America. I built the K-12 education team for Kindle within Amazon. And for me, it's always been about where technology can transform the daily experience for teachers, for parents, and ultimately for students. And so, most of that time in my career was spent in K-12, the kindergarten through high school, as we call it in the US. You fast forward a little bit, and just about five years ago now, my first child, our daughter Serena, was born. And I have also This little human being in my hand and it's funny as it sounds in hindsight like I didn't
4:24 Speaker 02 fully appreciate that when a kid shows up for kindergarten at age six that they've had five years of development before that and you know preschool with daycare after school programs it's all these really really influential years of early education that now most studies say that like those five years of life are perhaps the most impactful of any five year span after that when it comes to growth and development and so it is a must certainly for for young kids and for development it's also frankly a must for working families who rely on various forms of childcare to be able to go to work every day and these are things that I just didn't appreciate until I was a parent and as I got deeper into the space I think you know the the obvious thing from the parent's side is that it's really hard to find childcare to get into childcare and then once you're in you have no connection to your child for most of the day you
5:06 Speaker 02 know I personally can be connected to anybody on slack I can be connected to extended family across the globe but I'm not connected to my own child like that that just felt strange going back five years and that was the I think the first insight is just how broken the experience is on the parent's side I would say the insight of the aha moment was really just in spending time with them with the providers the folks on the ground and the key difference for early education versus the other areas is it's all private and so these folks are not just running a school and a classroom but they're also running a business and in doing so it just means that they're having to Band-Aid together a bunch of different systems when you think about enrollment and billing and communication and payroll all of these different things that they're having to do on the ground every single day and so in spending time with them and seeing what they were using a lot of
5:49 Speaker 02 spreadsheets a lot of paper I was thinking of why can't this all be in one place why can't it be easy to use why can't it be in the cloud and you know that in many ways is the origination of Brightwheels is just listening to folks and spending a lot of time with them and you know fast forward and just very fortunate to say that we are now the largest network of early education providers across the globe.
6:06 Harry Stebbings? No absolutely and it's been an incredible journey to see actually one of my favorite quotes you mentioned there about holding Serena in your arms was Finn Barnes at First Round who said on the show never before have you cared about something so much but known so little about how to care for it which I thought was rather an apt statement but I do want to dive into a couple of different elements today with you Dave starting on the core elements of building a company then moving to what often allows that to take. Place being the the funding, so to speak, and then finishing on the ecosystem that it's maybe takes place in very frequently being the valley. Does that sound good to you?
6:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, no, it sounds great. I'm just excited to dive in.
6:39 Harry Stebbings? So starting on company building, when we chatted before, you said to me that when scaling, two elements matter more than any other. Focus and hiring and culture. Taking these one by one, we often hear the importance of focus. How do you interpret the meaning of focus specifically towards company scaling?
6:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think, you know, startups can move incredibly quickly and that's it's usually a strength and and it's a desire, I think, to to bite off maybe more all the time. And so while that can be great, it also can be a problem. And I think it's just critical to know where to focus and where to put that energy. You know, I think companies really early on in particular, but every stage need to be able to define their customer to understand the the problem that they're solving for that customer. And then focus relentlessly on that. And you know, that may change as you learn more. It's it's not to say that you you have one focus and it never adjusts. But I think you have to first of all, know what you're focusing on to know if you're on the wrong path or if you're on the right path. And so I always advise folks to just really understand and define that upfront and, you know, be willing to be wrong, but to focus in on that.
7:36 Speaker 02 And I think when you dive in deeper, then what you have to be willing to do and be able to do is to actually say no. And I think there has to be a framework and a language within a company around no. And so, you know, I tell the team here every week to feel comfortable saying it, to practice it. And frankly, saying no is much, much harder than saying yes.
7:51 Harry Stebbings? Can I ask, before we before we touch on the saying no, which I really need your help on, and we will touch on it. Is the element of where to focus, how do you know that the area that you're focusing on is the right area? Are there leading indicators? Are there signs? Is there a time commit that you should give to knowing how long to give it? What's the thought process around knowing the right focus?
8:10 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think, I mean, part of that is, you know, the magic of of the early stage to some degree of you're thinking about and probably focusing on something that people haven't thought about yet or haven't thought about in the way that you are. So there is some gamble to that. I think it's then figuring out what measurement, what milestone, in what way you're going to be able to measure your progress and go against that. And I I think you can work against the problem, it could be for months, it could be for much, much longer. But being able to understand your core insight around that and then how you're actually going to be able to track it if you are able to solve it and able to address it in a unique way. That then spurs a really, really great learning process.
8:42 Harry Stebbings? Yeah, no, I agree with you there, but you also touched on the element of saying no. Now, this is one that I've been told that I'm really bad at because I tend to say yes to a lot of things and then either cancel or don't show up, which is terrible. So I need your help. I'm always troubled. How to turn down opportunities politely and retaining a relationship? How do you think about this? And what would your advice be to me and to the wider team and to people listening?
9:03 Speaker 02 Well, first I'll say I've gotten much, much better at it and as part of this experience and just having so little time. I think for me, it's always about being direct and being transparent. And so if I'm saying no to somebody, hopefully usually I have some good reason. And so if I can offer advice, it would be just to help the other side understand that. And I think it can be frankly uncomfortable because we have this inherent need to want to please. And I think what you see that transpire into often is like a soft yes, or let's talk about it later. I see it happen within teams. I see it certainly happen with investors who aren't willing to give a firm no. When I look back at my own experience, I think it's always better and the other side is always going to appreciate more having the understanding. And frankly, even the learning from a direct no. And so I think just getting used to it, getting the practice in place is super important.
9:46 Harry Stebbings? Well, I intend to take you up on it and I might even BCC you in on a couple of emails. That would be wonderful. But in terms of the culture and the hiring that we mentioned, going to that second element of the scaling, it's forever a process and an education, really. But what have been some of your biggest learnings on culture with the scaling of Brightwheel?
10:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, when I started the company, I thought culture had to be organic, a mixture of all the best things that the early employees would bring from their prior companies. And I was wrong. I think, you know, one of the biggest lessons that I've learned is that need to actually be prescriptive about culture. You know, these are the values and these are the behaviors that make your company unique, that make it tick. And I actually think it's important to define that and instrument it then throughout the company and hiring and reviews and team meetings. To really acknowledge it and be able to look at it and measure it and put it into action. Now, this doesn't mean building a wall and shutting out diverse perspectives. It simply means working from a foundation with a solid understanding. Well, let me say this. I once heard Reid Hoffman say, you want to build culture, not protect it.
10:44 Speaker 02 And I really like that. I think culture can evolve. It should be challenged, but you have to know where you're starting from.
10:49 Harry Stebbings? I mean, I love that knowing where you're starting from. So if we have that mindset, when we're hiring, we know the culture fit that we're hiring for. I'm super passionate about interview questions. Are there any interview questions which maybe determine or reveal more character about that candidate with regards to whether they are a potential culture fit?
11:07 Speaker 02 Personally, I learned this the hard way by not investing enough in incorporating into our hiring. And it is for stepping back and understanding what makes you unique on a values perspective and a behaviors perspective. And so, you know, for us at Brightwheel, our culture of really open and direct communication. We are very big on collaboration. We borrow from Amazon and we use docs, for example, to facilitate decision making and writing down narratives. And if someone is going to struggle or hate working in that type of environment, I think it's better for all of us to figure that out at the outset. And so, these are things now that more recently I have put into our actual scorecard. And so, when folks come through for interviews, we have the scorecard that we are rating against, and we have specific areas to focus on specific questions against that. And that's in the hiring process. I'd say we also just try to instrument it in other parts of the company. Like every week, we give an award
11:50 Speaker 02 for people who body our culture. You know, not everyone is going to be successful at Brightwheel, just as they may not be a fit for Google or for Airbnb or for some other company. And I think for us, it's just wanting to find the right people that will embrace Brightwheel forward strengths, will be part of building our culture and ultimately thrive here.
12:05 Harry Stebbings? No, I love that in terms of the thriving within the organization. But I do have to ask, in terms of the scaling, it's often enabled by the elements of fundraising, a constant topic in the valley, and probably propagated by terrible people like me. But I have to ask, given your recent raise, huge congrats for that, by the way.
12:22 Speaker 02 I appreciate it, Harry. And I'm excited and humbled to bring Besmer on board. I can say without hesitation that our investors from Indiak, from GGV, now Besmer, have just added a ton of value. And, you know, they really dug in to help. So it was exciting to get to share that. And I think more importantly, just exciting to bring them on board.
12:38 Harry Stebbings? For sure. But with the fundraising in mind, and with your being in the epicenter of the valley, how do you analyze the current sentiment and approach to fundraising today?
12:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think I'm somewhat outside of this on a regular basis, on a daily basis. But I think from when I pull up and look at it or try to help advise other founders, it feels like every few years, we look back and we're always saying that there's more money now and higher value. And it tends to be what I'm hearing and just more capital available in general. Often funds willing to bet on companies perhaps with less proven than might have been required a few years ago. And so I think in many ways it may be a good time to be a founder. But I also try to encourage founders to think through the implications of a raise, the timing of it, the size of it, and even the necessity of it because of what the expectations will be coming out of it. You know, for us, we just raised. I think what was interesting for the team to wrap their head around is that we're actually not going to change overnight. And we're not going to turn around and spend that money tomorrow.
13:30 Speaker 02 And I've actually asked the team essentially to operate as business as usual for the remainder of 2018.
13:35 Harry Stebbings? Can I ask, how do you think about that, especially with maybe more growth hungry VCs? How can founders maybe project that more reasonable spend, more reasonable burn approach without annoyance towards maybe a more growth hungry aggressive VC looking for continuous up rounds?
13:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think what I try to share my perspective with the team is I've now been in this area for a long time and I've seen a lot of fantastic companies die. And it's usually because they ran out of cash. You know, the other scenario is scaling up really, really fast and then rapidly scaling back and cutting folks back. And so Brightwheel is a generational company and I feel quite strong about that. And we're quite proud about the traction that we're making against that. And ultimately get there, we have to earn it. We have to spend like a series B company as we are today. We have to deploy capital that's going to get us return and be thoughtful about what it means to be the series A or B company versus a C or D or later on. And I think it can become very addictive. It can be frankly easier to fuel growth with cash. And I think it's pretty damn appealing in some ways.
14:33 Speaker 02 But if the unit economics don't work, you really haven't built much more than a way to actually just spend venture dollars. So if you step back, I guess I fundamentally believe that resource constraints are a good thing. They force creativity, they force teams to prioritize, they force tough decisions. Thinking through how we're going to spend that capital and keeping constraints on us in light of that and looking longer term. It's just, it's something that we have really open and frank discussions about internally.
14:56 Harry Stebbings? No, absolutely. But we chatted before and you said that approaching the end of 2018, you have the same as before the cash was wired from the raise. I'm super interested then to hear, given that and the thoughtful approach to burn and scaling, how do you think about when is the right time to really put the pedal to the metal and spend?
15:13 Speaker 02 Yeah, for me, it's having an idea, first of all, how you're going to spend it. You know, we're not raising for the sake of raising, but we're raising as an instrument of growth. And then it's looking for opportunities to place bets, first of all, and evaluate and understand those. And when they're working, being willing and able to invest and double down on them. It can be tough because a lot of that money is going to go into people and it takes time to hire people. And so you gotta be able to think ahead and plan ahead. But ultimately, it's following our strategy and sticking to it as opposed to letting the funding be the guide.
15:42 Harry Stebbings? Yeah, I mean, in terms of kind of funding being the guide, there's often quite a few quotes or mottos related to fundraising and funding successfully. And we touched on yours slightly there. I'd love to discuss two very common statements that I've heard many, many times on the show. One of them is that founders should always be raising. So Dave, tell me, what are your thoughts on this perceived wisdom?
16:02 Speaker 02 I'll be very honest, I really dislike that. I think fundraising is a tactical component of building a company. It's one part of the founder's job. It's important, it's absolutely important, and it's been a big part of my job. But it also takes us away from the product and from the business for frankly extended amounts of time. And so while my approach may be different from others and some may disagree, what I try to do is condense it as much as possible. So this requires planning ahead, knowing what future fundraising is going to be in terms of our plan, ensuring that we know the milestones we have to hit to get to that funding, but focus on hitting those at that time. And then when it comes to the actual time to fundraise, I actually just time box it as much as possible. I try to get it done, get it wired, and then go back to building the business. And I think to me, that phrase of always be raising just suggests
16:45 Speaker 02 that fundraising actually is the number one thing that a CEO needs to do and where a CEO adds value. And I just disagree. I think I would imagine that VCs coin that phrase and that makes sense. I think their job is to always be funding, to always be getting funded. And where financing there is a core part of the job all the time. I just don't think that's the case for the CEO. And so, you know, for a CEO, I would probably change it to something like always be building. Put your time where it matters most at that moment. And fundraising is a component of that. But on a day-to-day basis, week-to-week basis, there's a lot of other areas that I think will be more important, have a bigger return in terms of a founder's time.
17:19 Harry Stebbings? Can I ask, with that in mind, VCs are a proactive and hungry bunch. What would you say then, advice wise, to a founder who says, you know, I get inbound from VCs. What should I respond to them when I'm not raising? Should they do the coffee? How would you respond in terms of your advice to this kind of proactive approach from the VC?
17:36 Speaker 02 I think it's hard because you want to build relationships, you want to be respectful. And I do admire a lot of folks out there and would love to spend the time. I just don't have it. And I think if I have an extra half hour, an hour, I'm going to put that into the business. I'm going to put that into hiring. I'm going to put that into the thing that I should have been doing yesterday. And so what, you know, what I try to convey is, and what I advise is just the limitations on time and what that means and be able to give a future window potentially when that may change and it's time to check back in again and just be polite certainly about it. I'll be clear about it, but it is challenging because I think it is the time and sense structures are just a little bit different on each side.
18:11 Harry Stebbings? But the other element I do want to ask Dave is often stated again is the VC to founder relationship. It's a marriage. What are your thoughts on this analogy, Dave?
18:21 Speaker 02 I think it's fair in some ways and I'd say that the relationship is super important. Your investors are people you're going to lean on, that you're going to rely on. They're going to have a major influence in the trajectory of the company. They're going to be supporting along the way and they need to be aligned with the long-term vision of the company and the values and what the board dynamics will look like. And those are all things that you do need to uncover, that do take time to do that. In many ways, you know, would suggest the kind of the intimacy and importance of a marriage. And while I'm trying to clearly thread the needle here, I will stand by my original statement and say, I just think you can condense it more when it comes to an investing relationship, maybe more than a personal relationship. I think when it's time to fundraise, then you spend the time, you do your diligence, you back channel and you think through what are the ways that I can get more data and more information here.
19:03 Speaker 02 And so I think it would appear to me to be more straightforward to do that in a business setting rather quickly, just because there is enough information out there to get to an informed decision. And there's scenarios and concrete things that you can talk through with an investor about what the future could look like and making sure that that alignment is there. I would say it's probably less true when it comes to a spouse. I never quite hear back channeling on our relationships when it comes to getting to know your spouse.
19:26 Harry Stebbings? I've never been married, but I think reference checking your potential fiance would be helpful. Probably be a bad thing.
19:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's what I figured. I think it's fair in a lot of ways. I think it is a really close, important relationship. But I think, you know, the analogy breaks down when it comes to the actual way that you get to know somebody and the time that they put in upfront.
19:42 Harry Stebbings? Okay, question for you. In that compressed timeframe, how can founders really get to know VCs and build that real relationship? And vice versa, in a condensed and tightened timeframe?
19:53 Speaker 02 The biggest advice that I get is time, time, time. And so like when it, when it comes time to do it, then clear your calendar and put in that time and get to know them is the biggest one. And I'd say both formally, looking at a pitch deck and talking through it and talking through the numbers, but also informally and going out for a coffee or just getting to know folks on a more personal level. And then backchilling is really important. And I think everyone, just like when you're hiring, everyone's going to offer their own references. But being able to go about finding out other folks who have worked with that VC, you know, the firm in particular, the partner, and get to ask tough questions. And I think the easy thing is when something goes really well, when there's a great outcome and everybody's happy. The situations that I think are very telling is when it doesn't go well, when there's not come that folks weren't happy about or things turned in the wrong direction.
20:35 Speaker 02 How people act in those situations, I think, is really telling. I've been able to do that diligence on the folks that have come on board on Brightwheel and, you know, feel really strong, I think, about the character of the people that we have around the table.
20:46 Harry Stebbings? No, absolutely. And so you should. A phenomenal set of people. I do, I do want to kind of extrapolate ourselves one level further from the funding itself to the ecosystem where a lot of the hard funding largely rests today, being the Valley. Similar to funding, there's a huge amount of glorification around the process of founding and scaling companies. I'm interested, though, for you, Dave, being at the epicenter every day with Brightwheel. How do you feel about this maybe glorification, maybe more personally?
21:11 Speaker 02 Yeah, I really appreciate this question here. I think the VC and startup world, it feels like, as you're saying, tend to kind of glorify, you know, the founding, the scaling of a company, the big milestones. It feels like to me like we never hear about the challenges and the reality, which is that it is really hard. It's really, really hard. It takes a toll on family, on friendships, on health. I personally have had to let go of a lot of things that I care about, relationships, things that I enjoyed, in order to do this, in order to make the time available to build this company. And so I think you have to be able to find that motivation when things are really hard. You have to. Want to fulfill the mission and be genuinely excited about the problems you're going to tackle and the people that are in the trenches with you. And you have to then know also that it's not always going to be peachy. It sometimes it may seem externally. And so I think it just feels like a miss that we don't talk more about the failures.
21:53 Speaker 02 If you scroll TechCrunch or Twitter, it's kind of all about the big wins, the funding acquisitions, a ton of IPOs. And personally, maybe it's my own experience, but I would just much rather read about the product launch that didn't work, you know, the startup that didn't make it, or even just the day to day tactical misses. And I think startups are, in my opinion, much more about the climb than the peaks. And so there's just so much learning that's ball up right now because we shower praise and attention and time on the wins that are clearly visible.
22:19 Harry Stebbings? Speaking of kind of the wins that are clearly visible, often VCs attribute them to the brilliant term that is pattern recognition. I share Finn Barnes's view here. Finn Barnes said on the show the other day that pattern recognition is just another term for intellectual laziness. When you think of yourself, how do you think about the term pattern recognition? And what are the kind of immediate thoughts that come to mind?
22:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, so I heard that episode and caught myself nodding. I would tend to agree with Finn. I think, I would say it can really work and I imagine it can, it can help lead to success in many situations, but I also think it can tend to introduce biases. And as Finn said, I think some level of laziness. And, you know, as I look at my own experience, there are no doubt like brands on my resume that helped me a lot, but there also were times when I had to kind of work against that pattern recognition. And I can't tell you how many people dismissed me early on because they couldn't grok the word childcare. It just, it didn't feel big to them. You know, I started the company in my mid 30s at the same time, starting a family, like our three and our daughter was four months old, not the best time. What was really interesting is when I came back to Silicon Valley after being in Seattle for a couple of years is there's this knock against MBAs. And like, well, if you look at my work in class alone, like the founders of Warby Parker,
23:24 Speaker 02 Harry's, Allbirds, all came out of that single class. And so I think it tends to be that people want to kind of create these patterns. I mean, even, even to the extent of like, when I came back, I had a PC and folks would, would give you a look or say some comment because it wasn't a Mac. And so I just think it's, it's crazy how folks look for certain things and put judgment on that. And I think they don't even realize it often when they're doing it. And so if I look at things right now, I'm glad to see there's more emphasis on diversity, inclusion. I just think we have a long, long way to go, especially when it comes. To you know, to women, to minorities, to diversity of thought. I'd say at Brightwheel, we watch this closely. We want to hold ourselves to a high bar in terms of who we hire, how we operate. And we're not there yet, but but we do prioritize it. And I think it's just important to be willing to go outside of the things that you know and the things that you've seen.
24:05 Harry Stebbings? No, I absolutely agree. It's super encouraging to see the progress being made, but still a lot to be made. You mentioned the element that that I have to pick up on. I'm always fascinated by. You mentioned the element of starting Brightwheel just as you were becoming a father. I think Serena was four months old. Tell me, being slightly older and other than tech stereotypes, how do you think about being an older founder and a father? And actually, interesting one here. How has being a father maybe changed how you think about growing and scaling a business?
24:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, no, I like the the older term. I hadn't thought of myself that way, but there's pros and cons. I think ultimately, for me, I think it just means I'm going to be more stringent on my time because I have more demands on it. And so I am going to, as we talked about a little bit earlier, I'm just going to find chances and opportunities to say no and kind of put myself and my values first in some ways. And so it can be, you know, not taking that meeting or even just leaving the office in order to put Serena and Mia to bed each night, which which is something that's super important to me. And so I think it just it forces more strict prioritization. It also frankly just helps after potentially a tough day is always really humbling, I think, to come back and just kind of be around your kids and the simple joys that comes with that.
25:11 Harry Stebbings? Yeah, no, I do get you. When I come home, I look at a 3D statue of myself and it just fills me with comfort and warmth. I actually do. It was from Saster. Jason sent it to me. It's terrible. I do want to finish today. Dave, on the quickfire round. So as you know, I say a short statement and then you give me your immediate thoughts. How does that sound?
25:29 Speaker 02 It sounds great, Harry.
25:30 Harry Stebbings? Okay, so I'm flying to the West Coast. What book must I be reading and why?
25:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's funny because I listened to this question on your podcast and I always think about my honest answer, which is I just barely do any reading right now because there's just so little time, I think, as a founder, husband and dad. I will tell you the last one I read, which has been a while, but you know, one book I would recommend is called The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. It's just a really good framework, I think, to evaluate the health of any team, particular kind of executive team. It's super practical, really easy to read, but just gives a sense of. Some of the dimensions to kind of evaluate yourself and how things are operating.
26:03 Harry Stebbings? Listen, I am so glad I'm not the only one who struggles to find reading time. So that's brilliant to hear. And tell me, tips to running distributed teams successfully?
26:10 Speaker 02 Yeah, and I, well, first of all, I love some. I mean, honestly, we're kind of in the early days of this. But I do think that companies, especially in the valley, have to embrace it. We have an office in Denver. We have team members across eight different states right now. For us, it's first of all, it's just about investing in it. So we're hiring ahead of people to help ensure a great experience for everyone, no matter where they happen to have a desk and to be mindful about in our growth. And so we're investing a lot in things like video conferencing and travel and just ensuring that the things that originated with Brightwheel in our, in our first office and our small group, that the culture that we talked about, that we are instrumenting it throughout, ensuring that you can feel it and experience it and it can be part of your day, wherever you happen to be.
26:45 Harry Stebbings? Tell me, what motto or quote do you frequently revert back to?
26:48 Speaker 02 Yeah, so I applied the, I don't know if you heard about it, but the Jeff Bezos regret minimization framework to start the company. I think that, that I kind of often lean on at times, but I'd say actually more frequently now. I guess maybe he was to catch myself saying, so it goes. It's a Kurt Vonnegut phrase from Slaughterhouse-Five. I think it's just, it's a really simple phrase. I think it helps to get perspective. I think sometimes things are hard or insurmountable. Frankly, like the shit just piles on. And so, you know, that phrase, so it goes. It's just a really good, I think, verbal cue to kind of let it go.
27:16 Harry Stebbings? Tell me, what moment in your life has served maybe as an inflection point and changed the way you think?
27:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, maybe I'll split it into kind of two different phases. Early on in life, I did a bunch of backpacking on my own internationally, even climbed a few mountains. And I think pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone and then even frankly, your physical limits for me was really, really important to get to that point and know that you can then dig in and keep going. But I often look back on that experience. Now, I guess more recently, later in life, I would have to say, you know, marrying my wife, certainly. And not the meeting, but the actual committing, you know, she's been my rock in many ways through this experience. And then we talked a little about my two girls, just how grounding they are, how simple joy can be with them and how they have, you know, changed things in many ways.
27:57 Harry Stebbings? For sure. No, absolutely. Tell me, when I say success, who's the first person that comes to your mind?
28:02 Speaker 02 I mean, that's easy for me. It's the Bezos. I spent several years at Amazon. Expectations are super high. The results are high. It's for hiring, it's for innovation. It's for the customer experience and the teams continually find a way to hit that. And so I just really admire what they have built. And, you know, by the way, he's also investing around two billion in early education in our space. So that one's easy.
28:21 Harry Stebbings? If an investor can provide one value to you, what is it other than capital that is?
28:26 Speaker 02 Yeah, I'd say thought partner. And I would say our investors have been super strong on this dimension. And it's different than another kind of relationship that you could have. It's just, it's constructive. You're working together towards the same goals and you may have different approaches and perspectives, but you're treating each other really as collaborators.
28:42 Harry Stebbings? Tell me, final one, the next five years for you and for Brightwheel, what's that exciting time ahead?
28:47 Speaker 02 So, you know, Brightwheel, as we view it, is the brand of early education. We're the, we're the biggest network of early education centers across the globe today, with millions of interactions on a daily basis. We're the most trusted and most loved brand in this industry, and that's today. And so I think, you know, when you project out then five years, it means that we get to build on that really strong foundation. And we get to serve schools and parents in all kinds of new ways and ultimately help revolutionize this industry.
29:09 Harry Stebbings? Dave, as I said, I had so many great things from so many of your investors. So thank you so much for joining me today and it's been such a pleasure.
29:15 Speaker 02 Thank you. I appreciate it. I really enjoyed it and appreciate the conversation.
29:20 Harry Stebbings? I don't know about you, but just listening to that, Dave is just such a lovely, nice, grounded guy. It makes it very inspiring to work at Brightwheel, I'm sure. And I do want to say a huge thank you to him for giving up the time today to be on the show. If you'd like to see more from Dave, you can find him on Twitter at Dave Vasen. Likewise, I'd love to welcome you behind the scenes here for all things Christmas at the 20 Minute VC. You can do that on Instagram at H Stebbings 1996 with two Bs. It'd be great to see you there. But before we leave you today, as a VC, making new investments and working with founders is your top priority. So instead of worrying about scaling your back office, you need a fund administration partner. Much like how Carter changed how private companies manage their cap tables and 409A evaluations, Carter are now doing the same for Fund Admin. With Carter's new, modern Fund Admin software and services,
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31:33 Harry Stebbings? and I can't wait to bring you another set of exceptional episodes next week.
Previous 20VC: Top 3 Considerations When Evaluating Consumer Businesses Today | 700 Meetings, 70 LPs, 2 Years, What It Takes To Raise a First Time Fund| The Power of The Female Network In Action Today with Anu Duggal, Founding Partner @ Female Founders Fund Next 20VC: A Framework For Approaching Risk and How It Affects Portfolio Construction | Lessons and Advice From Working with Dropbox's Drew Houston | Why Being A Learning Animal Is The Most Important Factor For Success with Ted Wang, Partner @ Cowboy Ventures Page updated October 26, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
