20VC: How Startups Should React To Today's Funding Environment & Why Big Markets Are More Forgiving with Jenny Lefcourt, Partner @ Freestyle.vc

Jenny Lefcourt is a Partner @ Freestyle where she invests in early stage tech companies. Prior to Freestyle, Jenny was the Founder of Weddingchannel.com and Bella Pictures which were both acquired. During this time, Jenny raised funds from titans of VC including Kleiner Perkins, Trinity Ventures, Amazon and more. Jenny has also angel invested and advised some incredible entrepreneurs with the likes of Minted and Style Seat. In Today’s Episode You Will Learn: 1.) How did Jenny made his way into VC from founding and exiting 2 startups? 2.) What were the differences in raising money as a founder and as a VC? What learnings as a founder did Jenny have that have helped her move into VC? 3.) How have the large macro-economic changes affected Jenny's investing style? Has she seen a change in her investment cadence? Does Jenny place more emphasis on burn reduction now? 4.) Why does Freestyle not invest with a thesis? What are the benefits of this? How does Jenny make investment decisions going forward without a thesis? 5.) What does Jenny mean when she says that VCs suffer from duck syndrome? What can VCs do to make them the best and their founders life easier? Items Mentioned In Today’s Episode: Jenny’s Fave Book: Dreamland, Blinkist (Harry's Suggestion) Jenny’s Most Recent Investment: CREXi As always you can follow The Twenty Minute VC, Harry and Jenny on Twitter here! If you would like to see a more colourful side to Harry with many a mojito session, you can follow him on Instagram here! The Twenty Minute VC is brought to you by Leesa, the Warby Parker or TOMS shoes of the mattress industry. Lees have done away with the terrible mattress showroom buying experience by creating a luxury premium foam mattress that is order completely online and ships for free to your doorstep. The 10 inch mattress comes in all sizes and is engineered with 3 unique foam layers for a universal, adaptive feel, including 2 inches of memory foam and 2 inches of a really cool latex foam called Avena, design to keep you cool. All Leesa mattresses are 100% US or UK made and for every 10 mattresses they sell, they donate one to a shelter. Go to Leesa.com/VC and enter the promo code VC75 to get $75 off!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Harry Stebbings?

  Welcome back to the 20 minute VC with your host Harry Stebbings and if you've not already followed me on Snapchat then you can do that by adding H Stebbings. Now today's guest is so awesome. We initially scheduled a 45 minute call and in an hour and 45 minutes we were still there. I'm thrilled to welcome Jenny Lefcourt, partner at Freestyle where she invests in early-stage tech companies. And prior to Freestyle Jenny founded Weddingchannel.com and Bella Pictures which were both acquired and she's raised funds from the likes of Kleiner Perkins, Trinity Ventures, Amazon and more. She's also invested and advised incredible entrepreneurs at the likes of Minted and StyleSeat and I'd like to say a huge thank you to Arteez and Arab Shahi at Carlin Ventures for making the intro. But first it's the 18th day and that

• 0:44Harry Stebbings?

  means it is 12 days to go until the incredible Sunrise Conference by Blackbird Ventures. And why do I say incredible? Well, because it's unlike many other conferences. It's simply the best founders and CEOs from the likes of Atlassian, Canva and Planet Labs to name a few, sharing their stories, challenges and how they got to where they are today. So if you're in Oz on 30th or believe like me it's worth the trip, then check out thesunrise.co and enter the promo code HSTEBBINGS for a fantastic 20% off. And from sunrise to sunset, what better way to enjoy sunset than in a Lisa mattress? But did you know in Tromso in Norway, it is light for 24 hours a day for two months of the year? But not even this

• 1:26Harry Stebbings?

  could stop you sleeping if you had a Lisa mattress, as they're perfectly crafted of three layers, one of memory foam and one of latex light foam designed to keep you cool at night. Maybe not so relevant if you're in Tromso in the Arctic Circle, but for everyone else, hey, winning. They also have a real social impact mission and for every 10 they sell, they give one to a shelter and they deliver to the UK, US and Canada and the entire experience is a painless one. And you can check it out at leesa.com/vc and enter the promo code VC75 for a wicked $75 off. But now it is time to welcome the lady of the hour Jenny Lefkour, partner at Freestyle.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  You have now arrived at your destination.

• 2:15Harry Stebbings?

  Jenny, it's so awesome to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's great to be here.

• 2:22Harry Stebbings?

  Now, I really want to discuss how you made the entrance into VC and how you came to be where you are today at Freestyle.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  I've known Josh, so I think you know that my partners are Dave Samuel and Josh Felster, and I've known Josh for probably over 15 years. We have friends in common. We actually started our, both started our first startups around the same time. And then after my family moved to Marin, our families became friends. And so when I was doing angel investing and advising, Josh would call me if he was doing due diligence on a deal that he thought I could help on. So we were sort of lightly working with each other, but I would say it was more of a social friendship. But then in the fall of 2013, I was fundraising for my third startup. My partner and I pitched Josh and Dave, and we didn't just pitch them once. We had a lot of back and forth. So we had the opportunity to kind of see each other in action.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  Two great things happened. One, we got to see each other in action. And then two is, as an entrepreneur at that time, I got to really understand the power of the freestyle brand. In a way, I'm not sure I would have otherwise. And entrepreneurs talk to entrepreneurs about who you're talking to and getting the skinny on all the VCs. And it was very clear from entrepreneurs, if you can get Freestyle to invest, like you take that money. They're amazing. They're different than everyone else. So I really felt like I understood the freestyle brand a lot more after having that experience with them. So then my partner and I went on. We raised our $2 million. We were about to launch the site and we were not meant to be partners.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  As Gwyneth would say, we had a conscious decoupling, which was wonderful. It actually was super civilized and the right thing to do. And Josh was, I would say, the first person I reached out to to say, hey, you know, I'm done with this and I'm thinking about my next move. And he instantly said, come on in. And we were all pretty smart about it in that we understood that we hadn't worked together enough and that you really need to know each other well in a partnership. There's trust, respect, having fun together that needed to exist. So I started part-time. That went really well. So I would say a month or two later, it became full-time.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  And then that worked really well. I got to lead a number of investments and even more so the foundation was built with both of those guys. And so probably, I forget the amount of times, six, eight months later, I became then a partner for Fund, in Fund Three.

• 4:51Harry Stebbings?

  So I want to start with you there and third start up you mentioned. So having raised money then as a founder and now having deployed it, as you said, and led investments as a VC, I have to ask, what were the differences in the founder versus being a VC? What were the learnings for you from those differing hats?

• 5:10Speaker 02

  Oh, God. I mean, I could take a hell of a lot more than 20 minutes just on that question alone. So I'll have to think about keeping it tight. I would say first off, VC, a lot of VCs, we talk amongst ourselves, how busy we are, frantic we are, sometimes things get stressful. And those of us that have been entrepreneurs know that this is a cakewalk compared to that of being an entrepreneur. That being an entrepreneur is so intense. It's amazing, but it is intense. And so as a VC, the highs are not as high, but also the lows are not as low. And I would say that is like the first, I would say the biggest difference between those two experiences. The second one is the focus. As a founder,

• 5:52Speaker 02

  you know, my various times being a founder, raising money from VCs, I was, I had the luxury, I would say, of being maniacally focused. I knew what mattered and that's all I cared about. I'd let everything else go. And as a VC, you have to be able to bounce from subject matter to subject matter, portfolio company to new pitch meeting. And it's a very different experience. I often joke that my lack of ADD may be hurting me in this role. A lot of VCs, I would argue, have ADD and whether they were born with it or it got created because of the nature of our job, I do not know. But it's interesting.

• 6:29Harry Stebbings?

  Well, this is it. I mean, so many VCs I've interviewed do often state that kind of massive desire to flip between different topics and subjects and portfolio companies. So not having ADD is a very interesting thing. And so then in terms of kind of spreading yourself across the portfolio, how does that affect you?

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I mean, it's interesting. I, every day, I know exactly what I'm going to, what my goals are for that day. So I am one of those people that has a to-do list. And I try to make sure that I'm really focused and I look at my calendar and I try to make sure that that aligns with what I'm trying to achieve, but I'd be lying to you if I said, you know, that that's done a hundred percent of the time. It's just harder to do that because a lot of times you're sitting at meetings for three weeks from now. You know, I guess I say that VCs have what I call duck syndrome. It looks serene and calm. They glide on top of the water, but underneath they're paddling frantically. And I think that's honestly what's going on. I am working really hard, and I think

• 7:27Speaker 02

  most VCs are, to add as much value as we can to our portfolio companies, to be meeting great entrepreneurs that we would consider investing in in the future, to network, to help our portfolio companies build out great teams, and then reading a crazy amount, not just understand where the market is today, but where it's headed. And so how do I sort of balance all those things? It's impossible. So you just have to kind of understand, depending on what phase you're in, depending on what's going down, which of those you prioritize.

• 7:59Harry Stebbings?

  And then, and then I want to go back to the duck syndrome there. But I do have to touch on quickly. You said you're an angel alongside the founding of your companies. So I have to ask then, how's the decision making different in terms of the investment side when angel investing compared to VC investing? Are you kind of, you know, a lot more careful when you're VC investing? Does the DD take much longer? What is it for you?

• 8:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. So when I was an angel investor, I, my due diligence was very, very different. I knew who was leading and a lot of, I would basically make sure that I liked the entrepreneurs I was backing, that I had conviction in what they were building, but didn't do due diligence. I sort of trusted, like one of my angel investments is Main Street Hub. That was led by Michael Deering. I trusted that he probably did all the DD needed, or just, I just trusted that he was leading it. And that's turned out to be a wonderful investment. Now at Freestyle, I'm leading, right? And so even if I'm co-leading, I my I'm writing such bigger checks.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  And I'll probably lead, call it four or five investments a year. And so I have to beyond have conviction in a gut level. I for me, I have to have checked all the boxes, right? I have to really feel that I've turned over every rock and have belief beyond, I would say, of what I needed as an angel investor.

• 9:24Harry Stebbings?

  Because it's your brand and it's your responsibility.

• 9:27Speaker 02

  It's my, I mean, this is LP's money, right? That we are now putting to work versus my own personal money. And leading is a very different role than writing a follow-on check. In general, I would say the leads are usually doing a lot of due diligence, or at least enough due diligence work. And the follow-on checks are are not. And so that is one of the biggest differences, I think, between being a lead and being a follow-on. And so my angel checks that I wrote were typical follow-ons.

• 9:56Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. And you you mentioned the duck paddling desperately under the surface. And it's, you know, I want to move then to the broader assessment of the environment now, which which could be the reason for the paddling desperately. Because we have seen huge amounts of changes in the market in recent years. You know, a lot more capital in the seed stage, a lot lower costs of starting a company. So how's this impacted your investing? And is this in line with its impact on your fellow seed investing community?

• 10:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so so first off, going back to the duck syndrome for one moment, I would just say, when I talk about it paddling frantically, I just mean that VCs are doing a lot, a lot more than that met my eye when I was a founder, right? I worked with incredible VCs in all my companies. And they would come in and they would join meetings and they would drop wisdom. And they were calm and they were they were just so wise. And then they would leave to their next meeting. And I didn't realize how much work was happening underneath to make that the case. So I don't mean to say everyone's frantic in a in a negative way. I just mean to say there's a lot of work that's happening that you don't necessarily see as a founder.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  As a founder, they made my VCs made it look easy, like they were gliding on top of the water. So so I don't mean to say frantic in the negative way. So now, switching back to your question. I feel that right now it feels like a calmer, more realistic time, at least for me. And I would argue my, you know, the other seed investors than it did two years ago when I joined Freestyle. When I joined Freestyle, deals were going so fast and furious. And I would also argue that I saw a lot of stupid stuff happening, things that I could recognize because I was here in 2001 and I was here in 2008, right?

• 11:44Speaker 02

  And so I've seen the downturns and I saw things that I knew we were not in a sustainable market. So I opted out of that frenetic pace. The first investment I made was in a company that many VCs had passed over. And that allowed me to really do my due diligence, get to know the founder, have full conviction. And I believe that entrepreneurs sort of are owed the right that their investors have that conviction and that relationship with them. And so that allowed me to do things at a different pace. Now, I would say that that pace has calmed down and we're probably all at that pace. Meaning that you're not meeting a company and giving them a term sheet the next day,

• 12:25Speaker 02

  but you're making sure that you really have a good relationship with this team, that you've done your diligence. You've, you know, sort of dotted your i's before you lead around.

• 12:34Harry Stebbings?

  I'd love to discuss then, kind of talking of that and the speed and rapidity of it, in terms of just the cadence of investing and what you like to go for. And does the cadence remain consistent in downturns and boom times?

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, we haven't seen a change in our cadence. And speaking with the other seed investors, I've not heard of a change in their cadence. So I think that we're all acutely aware of what the next phase looks like, right? That the bar is higher now to get your Series A. So the same sort of discipline that we applied in our past. We're applying to our current, and I would say if anything, and more so. And we're making sure that whatever, whatever companies we invest in today have enough cash to make it through this storm. And in the past, the, you know, the, call it what you want. Is it a storm? Is it a chilly fall? Pick your favorite name.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  But this new market, which I would just call it a back to reality market personally. But how long will this last? And so, you know, in the past, it's been about 18 months. So I know if I wrote a check today, I want to make sure that that team has enough cash to make it at least 18 months, ideally two years.

• 13:49Harry Stebbings?

  So you go, that's interesting because we're always kind of, you know, the 18 month is a staple. All everyone's recommended 18 months and then six months prior to end of runway. You go out fundraising again. So you would recommend now potentially 24, would you? With the potential chilly freeze or whatever we're calling it.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  I, I, I would, I, um, it's not a must have. But the thing that I think matters the most in startups of getting from sort of seed stage to A is time. I've never met an entrepreneur who doesn't say, God, if I just had another six months, right? Because time's the thing that kind of bites you in the ass every single time. Because you know, if you had more time, you could prove more, you could show more, you could do more. And so if you have the luxury of being able to make your cash last longer so that you can prove more for when you then start those next conversations, you're going to be in a much better position.

• 14:42Harry Stebbings?

  And do you think that's why then we've seen a growth of the seed rounds enormously? I mean, you know, we used to have series As that were three to five million. And now I quite often see seeds that are three to five million. Do you think that's why?

• 14:54Speaker 02

  I actually believe that's just a, a change in names, right? I mean, so in the past, I raised, you know, if I go back 20 years ago, I raised my series A and it was a million dollars, right? So it's, I think it's a change of title. But I think that the funding itself of how much you raise in milestones is pretty similar to how it's always been. I just think what used to be called series A is now called seed. And so I, it's, you know, people are calling it seed, seed prime, low A. But it's all the same. And I almost think the names confuse people, at least I think they confuse entrepreneurs. And so it's just a matter of, so how much are you raising? And what milestones are you going to hit?

• 15:37Speaker 02

  It would that raise and so you know when you're starting out of the gate, your valuation is low, you may want to raise a little, I don't know, call it 500 K and prove something out to then go and raise your next round of financing. What is that called? Is it seed? Is it A? Hard to say, but if you're raising 5 million, you get to call it either one.

• 15:55Harry Stebbings?

  I I'm really intrigued that we spoke about lengthening the runway and I'd love to discuss now kind of burn and you know, often we were told, you know, maybe be as cost effective as possible and try and minimize burn as low as you can. But then how does that contrast with the growth at all costs analysis that many have gone for in the past? What's the kind of growth versus burn maintenance ratio for you?

• 16:20Speaker 02

  So I think that every company is different and you have to look and say, what are our main objectives? Like I work with all our portfolio company, or at least my portfolio company is on OKRs, objectives and key results, right? What are the three critical things, critical objectives that you're going to work on in the next period of time? And you need to just be focused on those and you need serious growth in those, right? And and so you need to make your burn as little as possible. And I think you do that by trying to do fewer objectives versus sort of hitting mediocre numbers on your key objectives. Does that make sense?

• 17:02Harry Stebbings?

  Yeah, no, absolutely. To kind of focus down and do something and do it well. Yeah.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Right, exactly.

• 17:07Harry Stebbings?

  And and we we spoke earlier about the ADD and not being scattered across industries. But at Freestyle, you don't impose a specific vertical focus, am I right?

• 17:17Speaker 02

  That is right.

• 17:18Harry Stebbings?

  Okay, so so with that in mind, I'd love to hear then what really drives your your thesis in terms of verticals and investment thesis and and focus as an investor going forward.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so the reason that I am not thesis driven is I have a thesis that there are these great entrepreneurs who are so smart, who will understand a vertical way better than I ever will. So that's one of the reasons that I'm not thesis driven. I think that would sort of close the doors to a lot of great opportunities. Then, the second part of my thesis and my non-thesis is that if you look at my portfolio, it may be hard to connect the dots, but there are three things that they all have in common, and I would hope that all my future ones would as well. The first one is, I like a very big market, really big. I find that big markets are much more forgiving.

• 18:10Harry Stebbings?

  This sounds so annoying. Quantifiably, what is a big market? Is that a billion dollar? Is that 10 billion dollar?

• 18:16Speaker 02

  It's funny, because I even annoy myself with not having an answer to that. And a lot of it depends on what's the size of the market, and then what are you actually addressing tomorrow? Usually you have a short-term product and then a long-term product roadmap, and so those are very different markets. Overall, you know, I get excited, like, one of my most recent investments is in commercial real estate, and you're talking about, I forget the exact number, but like, 270 billion dollars in the US. Like, okay, they don't have access, that whole thing is not addressable, but that is a really big market, and to make a big change in that market is a very valuable place to be. When I get pitched things where it's,

• 18:57Speaker 02

  you know, 3 or 4 billion is the true market size, I find that, well, one could argue that's plenty big, I find that to be a little bit smaller than I would care for. So where's the magic? I mean, I've also, the first investment I made, you couldn't size the market, because it didn't exist yet. It has to be something that I believe is either currently big, or will be really big, and, you know, is that north of 10 billion? I don't know. I've never actually put a sort of stake in the ground on where that is, but I do know the smaller, that sort of the 3 billion, 4 billion, that people could argue is big enough. For me, I prefer them bigger, just because they're more forgiving, not to say you can't be successful in them.

• 19:38Harry Stebbings?

  That does, that does really intrigue me, because you know, for, for many listeners of the show who might have read Pete Thiel's Zero to One, he very much focuses on, on narrow niche markets at the beginning, you know, Facebook was obviously Harvard only at the beginning, and says, you know, start small and build out from there. So how does that kind of compete with your market analysis?

• 20:00Speaker 02

  That actually completely jives with my market analysis, which is that it's understood, so there are two parts. One is where are you beginning today? And I'm okay if that is not huge, but I have to be able to see an honest path to something that does then enable, put you uniquely positioned to tap a much larger market. So like I said, the first investment that I made at, at Freestyle, which is a company called Narvar, there was no market. And their initial product is one that you would never claim would be a big enough business in and of itself. But I'm a believer in sort of the short-term product roadmap, meaning you have a product today that solves pain, that people will pay for, but it then puts you in a position for your long-term product roadmap, and that's where

• 20:45Speaker 02

  things get really interesting. And that's, you know, been the, the case for Narvar, and I'm sure lots of other companies. So I actually, I agree with Peter. You have to start with that way. Oftentimes, I'll call it a wedge product. But if, if there's not a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, that, even if you kind of make it over the rainbow, it's not as interesting to me. So I need to know that if successful, and I'm talking about if successful for the long-term vision, not the today product, if successful, that, that it will be valuable. Yeah. So, so one is big market. The second is that the experience of the product that's being built. Is so much significantly better than the status quo.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  So not like, oh yeah, that's better, but like, holy shit, that is like, that is a game changer for that industry. So you know, some people call it 10x better. And so I'm in that state of mind. And then I like to look at the team. First and foremost, CEO has to be awesome CEO, right? Great leadership, evangelist, you know, all that, everything that you would expect in sort of great CEO, but that I believe this team has an unfair advantage. There's a reason why this team will win versus other teams that would try to create the same company. And so a lot of people call that founder market fit. I call it unfair advantage, but it's kind of going after the same thing, that this team either has the insights, the experience,

• 22:10Speaker 02

  the network to make this successful, more so than the average team that would try to make this happen.

• 22:16Harry Stebbings?

  I'm intrigued there, obviously with the 10x better product. Sarah Tavel at Greylock says that products need to be 10x better and cheaper to really dominate the market. Is that something you prescribe to you? Is the element of financial kind of savings important to your decision making too?

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Well, for, not necessarily. It's not that I disagree with Sarah. I read that piece and I thought it was excellent, but she's consumer facing, or you know, she's consumer focused when she writes that. And that is probably true for consumers. But I'm dealing sometimes with companies, like for example, I'm an investor in a company called Crexie, commercial real estate transaction platform. And the experience, you know, technology is being applied to this huge market that has not had technology applied to it in a way where everyone in the ecosystem does better. They're more efficient, they can buy and sell better. So nothing about it is cheaper, but that doesn't matter because that's not sort of the name of the game that they're in. So I think it depends what market you're

• 23:19Speaker 02

  in. And I would argue in the consumer market, it does have to be 10x better and cheaper.

• 23:23Harry Stebbings?

  Okay, fantastic. And I'd love to dive into a quick fire round then with you, where I say a short statement and you hit me with your immediate thoughts.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:31Harry Stebbings?

  So, so let's start with who's been the biggest mentor to you in your career?

• 23:35Speaker 02

  So I've had a number of mentors, but there are two that really stand out. One is Jim Willenborg, who was the founder of the software company that I was a part of when I first came out to the Valley. He believed in me and the more I wanted to do, the more he'd let me do. And he's still a part of my life today, like I'm the trustee for his kids' trust and he's just been incredible throughout. I've written about him because when I, when my partner and I were going to Kleiner Perkins for our big partner meeting back in 1998, he came down and coached us on fundraising. And then another one is Jerry Held and Jerry I met while at Kleiner. He was, um, not an EIR, but he was, he was, uh, um, I guess the CEO in residence at Kleiner when Kleiner backed us.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  And he's been a big part of my career ever since.

• 24:23Harry Stebbings?

  Fantastic. And then what would your advice be for people wanting to enter VC?

• 24:28Speaker 02

  I guess my advice would be that have good operational experience, right? I would argue if you're going to be a seed state investor, there's nothing like having founded a company, right? Walked a million miles in their shoes. Or if you're maybe even going later stage, I would say just operate and, and operate well and take those learnings to becoming a venture capitalist. And then when you do kind of come to this side, just talk with everyone. Go to the people that you think have done the best work and they'll be happy to share their wisdom with you and the mistakes that they made and the learnings that they've had. That was really powerful for me when I got started.

• 25:04Harry Stebbings?

  And then I want to hear, what's your favorite book and why?

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Oh, I cannot answer favorite book because I am, I am a voracious reader. My favorite book is always the book I'm either in or just finishing. So I just finished a book called Dreamland. It's nonfiction, it's about how America got basically addicted to opiates and, uh, black tar heroin. Fascinating and disturbing, so I love that book. And my latest thing that I'm doing is that I'm an avid. Reader of business books, but they don't have enough time. So I'm now addicted to buying them on Audible and then just listening whenever I can on the go.

• 25:41Harry Stebbings?

  No Jenny, Jenny, I'm saving you time here. You'll love me for this. Use, okay, and this, this isn't an advert, uh, use Blinkist, okay, it's, it's like.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Blinking?

• 25:50Harry Stebbings?

  Blinkist, B L I N K I S T. Blink with your eyes and then it's, and it does exactly what Audible does. But it does it um in summarized versions. So, so they read, so, so I read Hard Thing About Hard Things.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Cliff Notes? I get the Cliff Notes of my books?

• 26:08Harry Stebbings?

  It's genius and you can highlight, you can send to people. I didn't read Hard Thing About Hard Things in like eighteen minutes last night. It was so like.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  I love you. That's like the best thing ever. I said to my partners, I'm gonna, cause I just finished Who. I don't know if you know the book Who, it's the A method of hiring. And I basically gave the Cliff Notes to one of my CEOs. She then read the whole book. She sent it to her whole team and I was thinking, I should almost do the Cliff Notes for these books. And you're telling me that's done.

• 26:36Harry Stebbings?

  Oh, it's done and it's, and they, and they also have it so you can listen to it.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Perfect.

• 26:40Harry Stebbings?

  Seriously, that's been a winner for me in terms of reading.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  That's the best. Thank you.

• 26:45Harry Stebbings?

  Uh, and, and okay, and then, and then moving, moving away from something that wasn't an advert, which. But let's finish on your most recent investment and why you said yes.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  So, well, I actually already discussed it in that my, um, the most recent launch, um, cause a few of mine are still a little in stealth mode. But it was Crexxy and that's the commercial real estate transaction platform. And I said, yes, because it fit my criteria and then some. You're talking about a massive market. The way that business is, is happening in that market is the same way it was literally thirty years ago. Total inefficiency um all around. And so the way that they've designed the experience and the product. Makes everyone in the ecosystem a winner, the brokers and the buyers, the sellers. And this team is. Total unfair advantage. They they come out of auction.com. So what they did at auction

• 27:37Speaker 02

  for distressed properties, they're now doing for non distressed properties. And then that combined with top tech talent, tech talent that came out of actually a company that then got bought by Apple.

• 27:49Harry Stebbings?

  Well, Jenny, thank you so much for sharing your journey today. It's been absolutely fantastic to have you on the show. Huge thank you to Artean for introducing us, Artean Arab Shahi. But seriously, it's been absolutely wonderful.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Thank you. It's been fun talking to you.

• 28:05Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely phenomenal to have Jenny on the show and you can hear that we had a great time filming it. So grateful to her for giving up her time today. As always, if you are enjoying the show, then you can add me on Snapchat at H Stebbings, or you can sign up for the newsletter on the twenty minute vc.com. So you never have to miss an episode or an update from us. But before we leave you today, do not forget to check out the sunrise.co. This is the conference to go to brought to you by Blackbird Ventures on the 30th of May. Really is going to be an exceptional event with some of the best operators in the world from the likes of Atlassian, Planet Labs and Canva, all revealing their inspirational journeys, challenges and plans for world domination. So fly there, swim there, cycle there. I don't

• 28:47Harry Stebbings?

  care how you get there, but be there in Oars for May the 30th to the sunrise conference. It's an absolute must. So head over to the sunrise.co and enter the promo code H Stebbings for a whopping 20% off the ticket price. And if you do take one of the suggested methods just there to get to Australia, you'll definitely need a good night's sleep at the end of it. And the only way to guarantee that is with a Lisa mattress. So how do they guarantee such a great sleep? Well, they have three unique layers, one of memory foam, and then one of latex light foam, which makes the perfect combination. Plus, the price will not keep you up at night either, as they have no retail stores. So they really do pass on the savings to you and I, the consumer. It also gave me great comfort to know that I had a 100 day trial, so I can ensure the mattress was perfect for me. I'm also very

• 29:32Harry Stebbings?

  proud to say that for every 10 mattresses they sell, they give one to charity. Absolutely phenomenal. And you can check them out by going to leesa.com forward slash vc and entering the promo code vc75 at checkout to get an astounding $75 off. As always, I'm so grateful for your support and always love to hear your feedback. So do email me harry at the twenty minute vc.com. Thank you so much, and I look forward to bringing you Friday's episode.