Pod Insights True Crime All The Time The Ortiz Family Murders About this episode Dixie and Lloyd Ortiz, and their son Steven, were murdered inside their home during the early morning hours of Father’s Day 2011. Over a year into the investigation, authorities received a tip from an inmate that would help solve the case.
Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murders of the Ortiz family. The family had an excellent reputation in their community and seemed like good, hard-working people. Lloyd and Dixie adopted and were caring for their son, Steven, who was partially paralyzed. They also had two adult daughters. And it was one of these daughters who found Lloyd, Dixie, and Steven murdered inside their home on June 19th, 2011. The immediate question was who would want to kill the Ortiz family and why? When the suspects were eventually apprehended, people were shocked by who they turned out to be.
You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime
Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information
An Emash Digital production
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript 0:39 Speaker 00 Hello everyone and welcome to episode 484 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
0:49 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm doing good, man. How about you?
0:50 Speaker 00 I'm doing excellent.
0:51 Speaker 01 You are excellent.
0:52 Speaker 00 It's like 75 degrees here today. It was nice, sunny.
0:56 Speaker 01 I pulled up, you had your shirt off, working outside.
0:59 Speaker 00 That is not gonna happen. Nobody's going to appreciate that in the neighborhood. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Sally Smith.
1:09 Speaker 01 What's going on Sally?
1:10 Speaker 00 Pepper Kepper.
1:11 Speaker 01 Well, okay. Keep that Pepper Kepper.
1:15 Speaker 00 Denise.
1:15 Speaker 01 What's going on Denise?
1:17 Speaker 00 I want to have Gibby's babies.
1:19 Speaker 01 Well, I do make cute babies.
1:21 Speaker 00 I feel like somebody just put that in because I would have to say that.
1:24 Speaker 01 I think that's exactly why they put that in there.
1:27 Speaker 00 We had Demon Juice.
1:28 Speaker 01 Oh, there's some demon juice.
1:30 Speaker 00 Delilah Burke.
1:32 Speaker 01 Hey, Delilah.
1:33 Speaker 00 Vanessa Kujus.
1:35 Speaker 01 Ah, Kujus.
1:36 Speaker 00 Yep. Elizabeth Martin.
1:37 Speaker 01 Hey, Martin.
1:38 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Rob Thunderhide.
1:41 Speaker 01 That's like strong, like Thunderhide.
1:43 Speaker 00 Oh, very strong. Yeah. Then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Kristen Lewis.
1:50 Speaker 01 Hey, thanks, Kristen.
1:51 Speaker 00 Yeah, we appreciate all the support we get. So we have a ton out right now. We just dropped a new Patreon episode Saturday night on Derek Medina, who the media called the Facebook killer. So check that out if you're on Patreon. If you're not, now's a great time to sign up.
2:08 Speaker 01 Why did I, first thing in my mind came funky cold Medina?
2:11 Speaker 00 Yeah. Because that's how your mind works.
2:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:15 Speaker 00 And on Unsolved, we have an episode out right now that's on Georgia Moses. She was last seen in 1997, walking with a friend to a gas station where she left with an unidentified man. And then on Thursday, our TCAT episode is on Linda Slaton, who was murdered inside her apartment while her sons slept in another room. And that's a fascinating case.
2:40 Speaker 01 It really is. It's just disturbing.
2:43 Speaker 00 Yeah, it is. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?
2:47 Speaker 01 I am ready.
2:48 Speaker 00 We're talking about the Ortiz family murders. Dixie and Lloyd Ortiz and their son Steven were murdered inside their home during the early morning hours of Father's Day 2011. Over a year into the investigation, authorities received a tip from an inmate that would help solve the case.
3:06 Speaker 01 I mean, I know there's always those tips that come from inmates. But as you know, I mean, how good are those tips?
3:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, obviously, this one is must be good because it helps solve the case. But, you know, we've talked about a lot of inmates who, you know, they're wanting something, right? Whether it's early release, time off their sentence, ramen noodles, you know, whatever it is. And they're willing to roll the dice on information that, you know, may not have any validity whatsoever.
3:41 Speaker 01 Some tit for tat.
3:42 Speaker 00 Okay.
3:43 Speaker 01 Whatever that really means. I really don't know what that really means.
3:46 Speaker 00 Yeah.
3:46 Speaker 01 At the end of the day, how that came about.
3:47 Speaker 00 I have a feeling you do know what that means. Dixie and Lloyd Ortiz were a married couple who lived in El Rancho, New Mexico. You ever been to New Mexico?
3:57 Speaker 01 I have. I've been through New Mexico.
3:58 Speaker 00 Albuquerque is one of my favorite cities.
4:01 Speaker 01 Beautiful town.
4:02 Speaker 00 It is gorgeous. To stand in Albuquerque and look up and see snow on the mountains, that is so cool. And you're like in shorts and stuff.
4:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:10 Speaker 00 That's amazing to me.
4:12 Speaker 01 You're in shorts pretty much 95% of the time anyway.
4:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, because it's climate controlled here in the basement.
4:19 Speaker 01 That's true.
4:21 Speaker 00 So they owned a business called Ortiz Tile Contractors for many years. Although Lloyd often suffered from back and knee pain, he continued working to support his family.
4:33 Speaker 01 Well, that's a tough business to be in if you have back and knee pain.
4:37 Speaker 00 Yeah, tile work, carpet work. You ever lay carpet? And use those kickers and have to hit them with your knees? I did that one time. I was laid up for like a week.
4:48 Speaker 01 So you probably felt that for a while.
4:49 Speaker 00 And I was young. I think I was like twen- in my early twenties and it was brutal.
4:54 Speaker 01 They make it look so easy.
4:55 Speaker 00 They do.
4:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:57 Speaker 00 Dixie managed the finances for the company and also worked with elderly and disabled patients in a local nursing home. So, you know, the one thing that you'd have to say is that they were driven.
5:12 Speaker 01 Right.
5:12 Speaker 00 You know, Lloyd owned his own business. Dixie managed the business and then also, you know, worked at a nursing home. Dixie and Lloyd had two adult daughters, Angela Spanx and Sherry Ortiz Rios. And they had an adopted son, Steven, who was only 21 years old when he was killed.
5:32 Speaker 01 Ah, that's rough.
5:33 Speaker 00 Dixie and Lloyd cared for eight foster children before they adopted Steven, who suffered from shaken baby syndrome in his early years before he was adopted. And you and I on a recent episode, we're talking about foster parents.
5:49 Speaker 01 We were.
5:49 Speaker 00 I think it was on the Erica Green episode. Really, you know, I have to give it up to good foster parents. There have been some bad ones, right? There are some people who do it just for the money and don't care for the, the children the way they, they should. But I think the majority of people go, go into it out of the goodness of their heart, right? They want to help kids out.
6:13 Speaker 01 And that's not going to be an easy thing to take on, but it's needed.
6:17 Speaker 00 Yeah, it is needed. So it's amazing that there are people out there willing to step up and do that. Steven was loved by his older sisters. When he first came to live with the family, they were told that he had a 95% chance of dying in his sleep. Because of this, Sherry would bring him into her room at night to watch over him.
6:38 Speaker 01 Man, that would be, uh. Tough.
6:41 Speaker 00 Be scary.
6:42 Speaker 01 It would be. I, you know, I remember when my kids were born, I was nervous and I would, you know, go sneak in there at nighttime a few times, just to like
6:51 Speaker 00 Check on them.
6:52 Speaker 01 Check on them, you know, put my hand over their mouth or put, you know, make sure I
6:57 Speaker 00 Okay, that sounds nefarious.
6:59 Speaker 01 Like, like hover over, not on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:02 Speaker 00 Doing like a breathing check or something.
7:05 Speaker 01 You know, if you couldn't tell, I was like, is everything okay? Cause you didn't want to wake them up cause then that meant, you know.
7:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, they would cry, but I don't think you're supposed to hold your hands over babies' mouths either.
7:14 Speaker 01 Well, you know, I had to do what I had to do.
7:17 Speaker 00 Steven was partially paralyzed, but he still enjoyed playing the drums, riding around on his ATV or working on cars. Steven was in his school's special education program and he graduated high school in 2008. Dixie and Lloyd were active in their community. Although Dixie worked 12 to 14 hours a day, she still found time to volunteer. The couple and their business had a positive reputation in El Rancho. So, I mean, I think that even says more about Dixie.
7:49 Speaker 01 It does.
7:50 Speaker 00 You're working essentially two jobs in some capacity and then you're going to, in your quote unquote off time, volunteer while you're fostering children, you're, you've adopted at a certain point, you know, a child with special needs.
8:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:11 Speaker 00 It says a lot about them.
8:12 Speaker 01 I feel like I got some similar things, you know, cause I have the day job. I do the podcast and then I volunteer at the senior place, you know.
8:22 Speaker 00 Are you calling that volunteering?
8:23 Speaker 01 Well, I don't really get paid a lot.
8:25 Speaker 00 Just ones.
8:26 Speaker 01 You know, so I, I, I'll just throw volunteering into that mix. Uh, that's about it.
8:33 Speaker 00 You do bring a lot of joy though, from what I've heard.
8:35 Speaker 01 Well, there's to that one or two people out there. Yeah, they're, one of them at least are happy.
8:41 Speaker 00 Unfortunately, the EMTs are called, uh, sometimes have to be called.
8:45 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, the, the crowds used to be bigger. Yeah.
8:48 Speaker 00 Sherry Ortiz Rios, who lived in a house on her parents' property with her husband and kids, was the one who found her parents' bodies. On the evening of June 19th, 2011, Sherry and her husband Jesse Rios spent the day cleaning a doctor's office, wetting the stucco of a building Jesse worked on the previous week. They got home around 3:30 PM and Sherry got started on a Father's Day dinner that they planned to bring over to her parents' house. Around 7:15 PM, Sherry sent her teenage son over to tell Lloyd that dinner was almost ready. Her son returned a few minutes later and said the doors were locked. Sherry went over to check herself. She saw that the newspaper was still at the front door,
9:32 Speaker 00 which was bolted from the inside. She used a spare key to get into the house. Her parents' dogs came running up to her. And you know, there's a situation like this in many of the cases that we talk about where, you know, when someone is found by the family, there is a scenario where, for whatever reason, they make the decision. They have to go over and check on this person.
9:57 Speaker 01 Right.
9:57 Speaker 00 And most of the time it's because they didn't show up to work or they got a call from somebody that said they haven't seen them. This is a little different. I mean, they live right next to each other, basically on the same property. I think they're supposed to come over for dinner, but when Sherry's son goes over, there's no answer. My thought is that this wouldn't be, right? Five alarm time. You're using your key because you think, I don't know, they're asleep, they're watching TV, they can't hear. I don't know what you're thinking, but I can't imagine that the mind immediately goes to something horrible.
10:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, I can't either. I think you're just thinking, maybe they forgot about the plans and maybe they just can't hear.
10:44 Speaker 00 Or maybe they went somewhere. They forgot about it and they went somewhere.
10:46 Speaker 01 And that's true too.
10:48 Speaker 00 But she gets in, right? And like I said, her parents' dogs came running up to her, which I'm sure they, they knew her well. So there's not going to be, you know, too much of a fuss there. But Sherri found her mother in her bedroom, clutching a pillow. Sherri recalled to the Santa Fe New Mexican, as I started getting closer, I saw dried blood on her face. She saw another body that she thought was her father, lying face down on the kitchen floor. And that's when she ran out of the house. But it was actually Steven's body in the kitchen. Lloyd was in the backyard with several injuries to his upper head and torso. Dixie had trauma to her right temple.
11:30 Speaker 00 And Steven had injuries on his head and shoulders. So, I mean, this is undoubtedly a very gruesome scene.
11:39 Speaker 01 I mean, it would be very hard to stomach to see your brother, your mom, your dad.
11:46 Speaker 00 Dad in this condition. Yeah. I mean, it would be tough to see somebody you didn't even know in this type of condition. But obviously, it makes it much worse that it's your immediate family.
11:58 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
11:59 Speaker 00 Investigators initially thought the family members were shot, but they didn't identify this as the official cause of death, because the autopsies hadn't been done. On June 21st, police announced that the initial reports about the family being shot were incorrect. The autopsy determined the family died from blunt force trauma and stab wounds. The deaths were reclassified from suspicious to a triple homicide. And I wonder if the suspicious comes from, you know, was there an initial thought that maybe it was a murder-suicide?
12:39 Speaker 01 Maybe.
12:40 Speaker 00 Now, to be that, there would have to be a gun by them, right? Because if not, I feel like you gotta rule that out pretty quickly.
12:48 Speaker 01 I would think so.
12:50 Speaker 00 On June 23rd, State Police Sergeant Tim Johnson said he couldn't confirm any details and noted that a suspect had not been identified. A source familiar with the investigation told the Santa Fe New Mexican that the family was bludgeoned to death with a pickaxe. Steven was hit 17 times.
13:10 Speaker 01 Wow.
13:10 Speaker 00 Lloyd seven times and Dixie twice.
13:14 Speaker 01 Makes you wonder why so many times on Steven.
13:17 Speaker 00 Yes.
13:17 Speaker 01 Because he was a bigger threat? Or was there more anger towards Steven?
13:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. You know, to me, the, the number does jump out at you. Dixie only twice, Lloyd seven, Steven 17. And here's a, you know, a young male, he's 21 years old, but like we said, he's partially paralyzed. So is he that big of a threat? I, I don't know.
13:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:47 Speaker 00 Or is somebody really upset with him? And he's kind of the main focus. According to the source, when police arrived at the home, there was nothing apparent to debunk the shooting theory because the puncture wounds from the pickaxe appeared to be bullet entry wounds.
14:05 Speaker 01 I get it, a pickaxe can resemble a bullet hole.
14:08 Speaker 00 If it would create a, a, a pretty serious nasty wound.
14:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:13 Speaker 00 But I still go back to, you know, how is it not a homicide? If there's no gun laying next to any of the victims, what else could it be?
14:24 Speaker 01 I mean.
14:25 Speaker 00 Can't be an accident.
14:26 Speaker 01 Right.
14:27 Speaker 00 And it's a little tough to say murder suicide when there's no gun found.
14:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, someone would have to, as they're falling down, throw the gun very far.
14:37 Speaker 00 To a place where nobody could find it, right? After the autopsy changed the cause of death ruling, police conducted another search around the home and found a pickaxe in a field near the house. After the murders, the Santa Fe New Mexican reported that 17 marijuana plants were found inside the family home. Two close friends said the marijuana was for medicinal use by Steven, who had a prescription. Now, I don't know if 17 marijuana plants is a lot or not. I've never, you know, grown my own marijuana, so I don't know. It seems like a lot to me, but.
15:14 Speaker 01 But what's behind that door over there?
15:16 Speaker 00 Well, we don't talk about that.
15:17 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
15:18 Speaker 00 You mean where the black light is emanating from underneath? We don't talk about that.
15:22 Speaker 01 Oh, okay. I just, I mean, I saw those water pipes going in there too, so I wasn't sure. I would think 17 is probably more than the average person would need.
15:32 Speaker 00 Mm hmm. I thought there were some states that had a rule about how many plants you could have legally. And I thought in some states, it's as little as like four. And I could be wrong about that, but.
15:45 Speaker 01 I think in our state, it's limited to no more than six, I think.
15:48 Speaker 00 Is it? Police sources confirmed the marijuana plants were among many leads pursued as possible motives for the murders. And I would think they'd have to be, right? Anytime that there are drugs involved, and technically marijuana is a drug, right? You have to factor that into the equation as a possible motive. One friend told the Santa Fe New Mexican, family and close friends have known about the plants. And who knows who else may have known about them. But it was not for recreational use and they definitely weren't selling. The stories didn't say that they were drug dealers, but that's what people think now.
16:30 Speaker 00 If police knew that wasn't the case and that the plants were for medicinal use, but never tried to clear that up before the media got hold of it, that only adds to our anger here in El Rancho right now. And I could understand that, right? We talked about these people. They seem to be stand up individuals, right? So if you're a close friend of them and it's seems like they're being painted as drug dealers, that would upset you.
16:59 Speaker 01 Absolutely. You know, if they're a. Pillars of the community, now you're throwing some shade on them for what? Because they grew marijuana plants in their home, most likely for their son?
17:13 Speaker 00 Months passed with no arrests and no information released to the public. A year after the murders, state police chief Robert Schilling held a news conference and said investigators had conducted over 120 interviews, collected over 50 pieces of evidence, executed 10 search warrants, and run 30 impact operations in El Rancho, but they hadn't arrested anyone and were calling on citizens to come forward with information. So I think you look at the numbers and you'd have to say, well, I mean, they're working on it for sure.
17:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's just not sitting idle.
17:50 Speaker 00 But you'd also have to say they really don't have anything or nothing has come from all of that work. Cherie Ortiz Rios did a series of interviews with the Santa Fe New Mexican, expressing her frustration with how the investigation was handled. She also revealed that she and her husband Jesse Rios had not been officially eliminated as suspects. And does that surprise you?
18:17 Speaker 01 No, it doesn't. I mean, they had access to the house. They were very close, obviously, to the family. And maybe there was, you could say there could have been a reason that they wanted this to happen.
18:32 Speaker 00 Well, I'm sure their most likely would have been a financial benefit.
18:38 Speaker 01 Right.
18:38 Speaker 00 To them, being the, you know, the daughter and son-in-law. Cherie recalled that approximately 14 hours after the bodies were found, after police had searched the house, a representative of the office of the medical investigator gave Cherie a card with the names of three crime scene cleanup companies on it. She called one of the companies because she didn't want her kids or her sister to be exposed to the crime scene. The crew arrived the Monday after the murders and returned the following morning. They were present when state police returned to look for the murder weapon after the autopsy results came in. By this point, several items were already in a biohazard bag.
19:23 Speaker 00 Cherie's husband Jesse said he believed the house should have been sealed for three days until the weapon was found.
19:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, I kind of understand what he's trying to say. It's like, maybe you shouldn't have gave us that direction to call the cleanup team in so soon. And the house should have been sealed up until you had everything you needed to have out of that home and made sure you did your, you know, two, three, four additional checks for whatever you, you know, thought might be in the house around the house before we went in and cleaned it all up.
20:01 Speaker 00 Well, obviously, they released the house to them.
20:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:04 Speaker 00 So they, the police must have thought that they had done everything they needed to do. Now, whether they did, that's, that's another question. State police had still not publicized theories about the motive. Sherri revealed that Lloyd's wallet, which contained some cash, was still on the kitchen counter, two safes, one that contained $4,000 and another that contained $80,000 were undisturbed. Now, you know, you can make of that what you will. I don't know that every person is going to want to try to grapple with a safe.
20:42 Speaker 01 Right.
20:42 Speaker 00 I don't know what kind of safes these were. Maybe they were easy to get into, maybe they weren't, but depending on what type they were, I don't know how to crack a safe. I, I know you, as a Jason Bourne type person, probably can do it. Actually, I think you're more Shirley Theron than Jason Bourne, but, you know, she was a safe cracker in that one movie.
21:05 Speaker 01 Italian Job?
21:06 Speaker 00 The Italian Job.
21:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, I can open up a lot of safes.
21:09 Speaker 00 And that's also if the person even knew how much money was in there.
21:14 Speaker 01 Exactly. They would have to know that.
21:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, 80 grand's a lot of money.
21:18 Speaker 01 It is.
21:19 Speaker 00 Now, is it worth taking a chance of still being in the house and being discovered for 4,000? Now, maybe not to somebody, but what does it mean when there's a wallet laying in open sight, plain sight? Because to me... What are you there for?
21:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:39 Speaker 00 Are you there to rob? Or are you there to just kill these people? And that's a big question, right? Motive is a huge question.
21:48 Speaker 01 And it seems like it wasn't a robbery because they didn't take the wallet. And they, you know, it sounds like they didn't touch the safe. So like you said, you don't know how big the safes are. Were they one of those safes that are a thousand pounds or 2,000 pounds? Or are they one of those floor ones that might be, you know, 200 pounds?
22:07 Speaker 00 Or a little one that you can carry around like a little fire rated safe.
22:13 Speaker 00 And then my other thought is if you knew how much money was there, you don't have to break in. You could have forced one of the occupants of the home to open the safe up.
22:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:26 Speaker 00 Before they were ultimately killed. That didn't happen either. So I think you have to take all of that into consideration. And then obviously not checking the, the wallet for money. It seems like robbery was not the motive for these killings whatsoever.
22:43 Speaker 01 In any house I walk in, I see a wallet on the table. I check for money.
22:46 Speaker 00 Yeah. And you're not even there to commit a crime. You just see a wallet.
22:49 Speaker 01 I'm just nosey. By the way, your wallet doesn't have any cash in it right now.
22:54 Speaker 00 I know that's not true because the whole family has a code gibby. On the nights that you come over, we take all of our valuables and we lock them in the safe.
23:06 Speaker 00 Cause we know you're going to be here. According to the Santa Fe New Mexican, a police report documented an interview with an unnamed female who said, someone mentioned that Steven was killed over $5,000 of methamphetamines, which were unpaid for. However, this same report noted that the source changed her story. Other reports claim that the Ortiz family sold drugs out of their house. Sherry denied that her brother was involved with illegal drugs. So here's this drug talk, right? That one family member was so upset about, you know, there, there does seem to have been quite a bit of it. I'm sure it was, um, you know, in some of the papers. One of the thoughts that I had was,
23:51 Speaker 00 You know, if they're selling drugs and making quite a bit of money from it, then why is Dixie working 12, 14 hours a day at multiple jobs?
24:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
24:01 Speaker 00 No. I mean, could it be a cover? I guess. I don't know. But I mean, we said it, right? Lloyd owned his own business. Dixie was working. She was volunteering. And they're taking care of Steven, who's partially paralyzed. It doesn't seem like the type of family that would be selling drugs, but that doesn't really mean anything.
24:27 Speaker 01 No, I mean, look at Walter. I mean, he was working at the high school.
24:31 Speaker 00 Teaching chemistry.
24:32 Speaker 01 Yeah. And then working at the car wash and, you know, also dabbing a little bit in that RV out in the desert.
24:38 Speaker 00 It's a very apt comparison. Police reports also referred to a 16 year old boy who lived with the family for a period of time before he was kicked out after being accused of stealing marijuana. In an interview, the teenager, who was allegedly affiliated with a gang, said he lost contact with Steven and his family after he was blamed for things he didn't do. So you got a possible gang-related component here.
25:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:07 Speaker 00 A month before the murders, the boy was in the area and heard Steven playing loud music. He jumped the fence and entered the backyard. He hid behind a bush when he heard Lloyd and someone else come outside, then jumped up and roared. Lloyd seemed angry and asked what he was doing in his backyard.
25:25 Speaker 01 I could get that. I'd be like, what the hell's wrong with you?
25:28 Speaker 00 Yeah.
25:29 Speaker 01 What are you, one, what are you doing back here? And why are you roaring at me?
25:32 Speaker 00 And jumping out and trying to scare me?
25:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:35 Speaker 00 In her interview, Sheri explained that she was trying to keep her parents' house, but she needed proceeds from the life insurance policy to do so, which she couldn't get because the underwriter required a written statement from police, stipulating that the beneficiaries were not suspects.
25:53 Speaker 01 I mean, that's typical for an insurance policy, right? They don't want to pay somebody out.
26:01 Speaker 00 Who is acquiring the money through murder?
26:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:03 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, I mean, let's face it, they don't really want to pay the money out for anything.
26:08 Speaker 01 Period. Yeah.
26:09 Speaker 00 If they can find any reason, they're going to. According to Sherri, they've told us that we're no longer suspects. They've released us as suspects, but they won't send that documentation to the life insurance company. And I think it's a sticky situation here, right? The police obviously have to look at the family because there are kind of inherent motives for family members to kill each other when it comes to life insurance, if you're a beneficiary. But at the same time, if you didn't have anything to do with it, you know, like if you're Sherri and her husband and Sherri's sister too, it's gotta be really tough for you because number one, you got this kind of cloud hanging over you.
26:53 Speaker 00 And then number two, you don't want your parents' house to go into foreclosure, but you can't do anything about it unless you have the life insurance proceeds.
27:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, but you can't get those because like you said, the police department's not going to write that letter yet unless they absolutely have zeroed out that it's you. They're not going to write that letter.
27:17 Speaker 00 Sherri recalled that the last time she saw her parents and brother was the Friday before Father's Day. She and her husband went to a casino on Saturday night and returned early Sunday. Her son was on a camping trip that night and her daughter was at a sleepover. Sherri also said that when officers arrived at the house, an agent approached her. And according to her, asked me what I did with the gun used to kill my mom, my dad and my brother. And apparently her husband was asked the same question.
27:50 Speaker 01 Kind of offensive.
27:51 Speaker 00 Well, and you know, we said it, right? Originally, they were under the impression that all three members of the family were killed from gunshots.
28:03 Speaker 00 So, yeah, I mean, in the wake of finding out what happened, to be asked that question is, I'm sure, a gut punch, if you didn't have anything to do with it. Sheri's sister, Angela Spinks, attended a public session with a psychic who was visiting Albuquerque and asked who killed her family in front of a crowd of people. The psychic accused Jesse Rios. Sheri and Jesse also claimed that they asked to come to the recent state police news conference, but they were told not to. State Police Chief Robert Schilling denied this. And we've talked about psychics for years, right? I know some people really believe in them. I never really have.
28:46 Speaker 00 I still like, you know, like the Conjuring movies and stuff like that. I just don't really believe in much of that.
28:52 Speaker 01 Okay.
28:53 Speaker 00 But I love the movies.
28:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, you do. I know you like that, uh, character in The Conjuring, the one that has the psychic abilities, the wife.
29:01 Speaker 00 Oh, the wife, yeah.
29:03 Speaker 01 Yeah. Lorraine?
29:04 Speaker 00 Lorraine Warren.
29:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:06 Speaker 00 Played by Vera Farmiga, I believe.
29:09 Speaker 01 Very good, yeah.
29:11 Speaker 00 I told you, I've seen them a bunch.
29:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, you have.
29:13 Speaker 00 I do like them. But I never have really believed in ghosts and the supernatural and things like that, mainly because I've never experienced it. I think people who have experienced something or believe they've experienced something, yeah, obviously may believe in it.
29:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:32 Speaker 00 I find it hard to believe in things that I just haven't experienced.
29:37 Speaker 01 You have to experience it to believe it. You're a non-believer until you experience it, then you are a believer.
29:44 Speaker 00 I would say that's probably true.
29:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:46 Speaker 00 But you have this psychic telling Angela that it was Jesse Rios, her sister's husband, her brother-in-law, who killed their, their fam- her family. Now, what are the chances that this psychic watched the news, read the newspaper, knew who Jesse was, knew that maybe the police had thoughts that they had something to do with it? I mean, does that sound plausible?
30:16 Speaker 01 Possible.
30:17 Speaker 00 Or is it more likely that she just knows who the killer is? I don't want to shake your, your belief in psychics, but I'm kind of leaning towards the, you know, saw it in the paper type of dude.
30:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm leaning towards that way.
30:33 Speaker 00 Over three years after the murders, on February 12th, 2015, police arrested 20-year-old Nicholas Ortiz. Nicholas, who has no relation to the Ortiz family, was charged with three counts of murder, as well as evidence tampering and bribery or intimidation of a witness. It had been years since state police offered any information on the investigation. Nicholas's name hadn't even been made public prior to his arrest. A court affidavit filed on February 16th stated that a scheme to steal money from a safe inside the house led to the murders.
31:15 Speaker 01 Well, if you're gonna scheme to take money from the safe, you should probably do that before the murders.
31:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I'm sure we're gonna talk about it, but you know, what if somebody doesn't cooperate? Right? What if Lloyd says, "No, I'm not opening the safe." At some point, you know, whether you're wearing a mask, you're not wearing a mask, especially if you're not wearing a mask, does somebody make the decision that "This ain't gonna happen, but I can't just leave here."
31:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, I was just wondering how you hold three people at bay with a pickaxe?
31:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't know that you do it by yourself.
31:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:56 Speaker 00 A state police investigator wrote that at various times in recent years, he interviewed cousins Jose and Ashley Robal, who told him they were with Nicholas on the night of the murders. Both witnesses said Nicholas told them he killed the family. The investigator wrote that Nicholas, who was only 16 at the time of the murders, was very familiar with the residents and had stayed with the victims on previous occasions. So I think, you know, that right there explains how he would know about the saves.
32:28 Speaker 01 Right.
32:28 Speaker 00 He might even have an inkling of how much money is kept in the saves on a regular basis. But you know what struck me was the thought that a 16-year-old
32:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:41 Speaker 00 could kill three individuals with a pickaxe, the way that these three were killed. These were very horrific murders.
32:49 Speaker 01 They were. Definitely had to be a troubled teen.
32:52 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think you'd have to say that. According to the affidavit, Ashley Robal was incarcerated on an unrelated charge in October 2012, when she contacted the investigator and said she wanted to provide information about the murders. Her account of events, as well as information provided by Jose Robal during a September 2014 interview, provided the narrative of the plot to steal cash and marijuana from the Ortiz household. So this is where, as we talked about in the very beginning, right? The tip from an inmate comes in that leads them in the direction of the killer.
33:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:33 Speaker 00 But why does it come in? It's because she's picked up on a separate charge.
33:38 Speaker 01 Yep.
33:39 Speaker 00 And probably doesn't want to be held responsible for that charge. And so she's going to roll over on Nicholas, most likely in the hopes of leniency on whatever she's facing right now.
33:54 Speaker 01 Time to make a deal.
33:55 Speaker 00 And that's a deal you know that authorities would easily make.
33:59 Speaker 01 Oh, for sure.
34:00 Speaker 00 Because I don't know what the exact charge was. I'm assuming it's not murder. You know, so can they make whatever that was go away in exchange for getting a murder conviction or three murder convictions? Yeah, I would say that's a deal that most people would make.
34:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:20 Speaker 00 Ashley told a state police investigator that she drove Nicholas and Jose, who at that time was only 15 years old, to the crime scene on the night of the murders. Jose said that as he and Nicholas approached the house, he changed his mind because he didn't want to kill the family and he started walking back. Nicholas said he would kill the family himself and had a pickaxe that Ashley allegedly gave him to use as a weapon. Nicholas later told the Robal cousins that after he knocked on the back door. Lloyd came out into the backyard and he hit him with the pickaxe. He killed Dixie in bed and killed Steven in the kitchen.
35:01 Speaker 00 The affidavit stated, according to Jose, Nicholas said, when Steven looked at him, it was the hardest part. Nicholas kept swinging at him and after he killed them, he panicked and ran out of the house. I mean, you know, this is a 16 year old kid. It sounds to me, Gibbs, like he had an idea of what he was going to do, but he didn't really have a plan. And when he got there, all hell kind of broke loose. And whatever plan he might've thought about just kind of evaporated. And he's like, I gotta get out of here.
35:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, didn't even get what he wanted. He just reacted, killed three people, freaked out and ran off.
35:46 Speaker 00 Ashley said that when she picked Nicholas up that night, he had blood on his clothing and had plastic bags over his shoes and socks over his hands. She drove Nicholas to her grandparents' house where he told her and Jose that he killed the family and didn't get the money. After he showered, she gave him fresh clothing and drove him home. He cried the entire way.
36:10 Speaker 01 Sure, it really was impactful at that moment.
36:12 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it was for a 16 year old kid. And this other kid was only 15 years old. He had the good sense at least to back out of the plan, get out of the car and walk away. But he, he's still implicated in some ways, right?
36:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:30 Speaker 00 He was involved in the planning. And then you have Ashley, who allegedly provided the, the murder weapon and drove them to and from.
36:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:41 Speaker 00 The crime scene. So she's obviously implicated in the murders too, but she's the one who's cutting the deal. And what do you always say?
36:50 Speaker 01 First one cuts the deal wins.
36:53 Speaker 00 Gets the cheese.
36:54 Speaker 01 That's right.
36:54 Speaker 00 Or is it the first one to cut the cheese? I forget. I know there's a saying in there somewhere.
37:00 Speaker 00 Nicholas called her the next day and mentioned his intent was to rob the family of $20,000 that he knew was in a safe in the closet. He admitted, I killed them and warned her not to say anything. $20,000.
37:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:16 Speaker 00 For three lives. Now, I get it. To a 16 year old, $20,000 is a lot of money. It's a lot of money to most people.
37:26 Speaker 01 Sure.
37:27 Speaker 00 Unless you're a really rich person, but you know, juxtaposed with the lives of three people, it seems so inconsequential. It's ridiculous.
37:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, I just don't think they think that far.
37:41 Speaker 00 No.
37:42 Speaker 01 About this.
37:43 Speaker 00 No, people, yeah, people who do this, they, they don't think that far ahead. It's like, they want what they want.
37:50 Speaker 01 Yep.
37:51 Speaker 00 And if people get hurt in the process, well, so be it. The affidavit also indicated that just a few days after the murders, a resident of El Rancho told state police that Nicholas told him the day after the murders, that he killed them, but didn't specify who. And that's kind of shocking that the state police were made aware of this and they don't connect it to murders that happened just a few days prior.
38:18 Speaker 01 It could be fairly easy to connect those dots.
38:20 Speaker 00 Yeah.
38:21 Speaker 01 This always bugs me, you know, when these people kill other people, that they're so loose with their lips.
38:28 Speaker 00 Well, again, this is not a criminal mastermind.
38:32 Speaker 01 No.
38:32 Speaker 00 Right? This is a 16 year old kid who is probably scared to death and is going to either let it slip accidentally, or maybe not accidentally because they're just worried about it and they're, they're talking to people. I don't know. An ex-girlfriend told an investigator in July 2013 that she was dating Jose Robo at the time of the murders. And he told her that night over the phone, that he and Nicholas planned to burglarize the Ortiz home and take their marijuana. So it's kind of shocking that all of these people kind of knew, right? There were a number of people who knew about this.
39:15 Speaker 00 One person even went to the state police very early on, but somehow they didn't put it together?
39:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think that's disturbing to me.
39:25 Speaker 00 It is.
39:25 Speaker 01 That piece there.
39:26 Speaker 00 Now, I understand if the ex-girlfriend doesn't, you know, actually go to the police, then they wouldn't know about that. But on August 3rd, 2015, Ashley Roball pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit burglary and tampering with evidence. She also pleaded guilty to burglary, conspiracy, and evidence tampering in a different case. So apparently, she was a burglar, a conspirer, and a evidence tamperer.
39:55 Speaker 01 At the very, at a very young age.
39:58 Speaker 00 Jose revealed in court that he was offered immunity in exchange for his testimony. He testified that he and Nicholas talked about burglarizing the Ortiz home to get money and marijuana plants. According to Jose, after they realized the family was home that night, Ashley suggested they kill them. She gave him and Nicholas socks to put over their hands, as well as tissue paper and plastic bags to cover their shoes, and drove them to the residence. Jose changed his mind and agreed to wait outside while Nicholas killed the family and to help carry items from the house. But instead, he ran home.
40:39 Speaker 01 Well, Ashley sounds like the little mastermind.
40:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, like much more of a mastermind than what she initially said.
40:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:50 Speaker 00 And it's strange because she is the one that kickstarted this whole thing.
40:54 Speaker 01 Right.
40:55 Speaker 00 Right, with her tip. But it turns out that Jose is the one that gets the immunity to testify against Nicholas, most likely because he didn't participate. He did decide to walk away. Now, he's culpable because he planned it, he went there. But easier, I think, to let him get immunity than certainly Nicholas, who did the killings.
41:23 Speaker 01 Right.
41:24 Speaker 00 But maybe even Ashley, because it sounds like she was very, much more involved than what she initially let on. Jose testified that Nicholas knew the house well because he'd lived with the family. Jose and his mother also once helped Nicholas steal money from the home before the killings. His mother was unaware what was going on when they dropped Nicholas off. They later picked him up and loaded a five gallon jug filled with cash and coins into the vehicle. So it sounds like Nicholas had a very good understanding of the home, what was in there, the marijuana plants that the, you know, they kept cash.
42:06 Speaker 01 I'm just curious if you went and picked up your kid at somebody's house and they load a five gallon bucket of coins and bills. Are you just gonna be like, hey, hey, honey, how'd your day go? You're not gonna be like, hey, what is that?
42:23 Speaker 00 Well, even if I didn't know what was in it, bringing a five gallon bucket that you didn't take with you is going to garner a bunch of questions. I'm gonna wanna see it. I'm gonna wanna know what's there. And then, once I see it, I'm gonna have even more questions.
42:39 Speaker 01 And it's not gonna be something you can easily just carry with one arm, right?
42:43 Speaker 00 No, coins are heavy.
42:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, five gallons of coins?
42:47 Speaker 00 Cash doesn't weigh anything, but coins, you know, they can get really heavy. Jose admitted under cross-examination that he had burglarized homes and lied to federal agents who first questioned him. So no doubt, I mean, he wasn't a Boy Scout either in this whole thing. But my thought is they needed his cooperation. They needed his testimony to get the conviction against Nicholas, which is why he was granted immunity. Ashley Robal denied that she ever suggested to Nicholas and Jose that they should kill the Ortiz family. She knew they intended to burglarize the house and admitted to driving them there.
43:28 Speaker 00 She picked Nicholas up 20 minutes later and gave him clean clothes and a trash bag to dispose of his bloody garments. She denied giving them socks to put on their hands. So, you know, we've got an argument here or conflicting information, right? Who's telling the truth? But even the stuff that Ashley does admit to is pretty damning. She knew about it ahead of time.
43:51 Speaker 01 She did.
43:52 Speaker 00 She drove them there. She helped Nicholas clean up, right? Gave him clean clothes, helped him dispose of his bloody clothes. All of that is extremely criminal.
44:04 Speaker 01 It is. She's very involved.
44:07 Speaker 00 She admitted that she lied to state police because she was afraid someone would find out. She talked to investigators and harmed her grandparents whom she lived with. She was afraid of both Jose and Nicholas. Nicholas had warned her not to say anything and she knew what he was capable of. And that might be true. It also might be true that she didn't want anybody to know the role she played.
44:32 Speaker 01 I definitely think she didn't want anybody to know the role she played.
44:36 Speaker 00 Ashley said she came forward a year later because of her guilty conscience and because she had already been helping the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office identify suspect in area burglaries at the time. So, did she come forward because of her guilty conscience? Or because she got picked up on another charge and she thought she could, you know, use this information to get out of that?
45:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's the latter.
45:03 Speaker 00 I'm not buying the guilty conscience. I'm really not. The court also heard from Sherri Ortiz and her son, Robert. Nicholas was good friends with Robert and came over every day after school, often stayed for dinner and sometimes stayed overnight. Sherri testified that Nicholas stayed with them for several months and was welcomed into her parents' home. Robert said Nicholas felt at home with his family and they sometimes spent evenings at his grandparents' house, visiting and smoking marijuana with them and Steven. So, how much of an additional shock and kind of gut punch is it to find out that the perpetrator
45:48 Speaker 00 is someone that, you know, you welcomed into your home with open arms?
45:53 Speaker 01 Oh, I think it's a huge gut punch.
45:54 Speaker 00 You made them dinner. They stayed overnight. They were friends with your child.
45:59 Speaker 01 You smoked a joint or a bowl with them. Come on.
46:01 Speaker 00 There's a bond there.
46:03 Speaker 01 Absolutely, there's a bond.
46:04 Speaker 00 One night, the family discovered Nicholas hiding in their yard. Nicholas jumped up and scared him. His grandparents scolded Nicholas before they left to get dinner. Nicholas started acting strangely and said he had to leave. He then turned to Robert and said, just hit me in the face, dude. Just hit me right now. Okay, it's kind of a weird thought process.
46:25 Speaker 01 It is.
46:26 Speaker 00 Also, what is with all these people hiding and jumping out and scaring, you know, these people? Now, they maybe were smoking quite a bit of marijuana. I don't know if that played into it or not. Robert didn't hit him and Nicholas walked away into a field. Robert never saw him again until after the murders.
46:46 Speaker 01 Bizarre.
46:47 Speaker 00 Well, it sounds like, you know, this event either, you know, had a profound impact on Nicholas. It definitely must have either put a strain on their relationship or Nicholas just didn't want to be around them because he was embarrassed. He was upset. I don't know what.
47:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's strange that he just walked out in the field and disappeared. I remember that happened to me. I was young. I was at my grandparents' farm.
47:16 Speaker 00 Was it after you guys made that baseball field?
47:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:18 Speaker 00 In the corn?
47:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, yep, you know, I mean, we built it.
47:22 Speaker 00 And they, they came?
47:23 Speaker 01 They came, so, yeah.
47:26 Speaker 00 On August 5th, the judge bound Nicholas over for trial. His trial started on May 17th, 2016. Prosecutors noted that the murders occurred weeks after the Ortiz family kicked Nicholas out of their house for stealing marijuana. The jury heard testimony from key witnesses, Jose and Ashley Robal, who gave differing stories.
47:48 Speaker 01 I guess differing stories to protect each other.
47:53 Speaker 00 No, I think to protect themselves.
47:54 Speaker 01 I mean themselves.
47:55 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's not forget, Jose's got immunity. So he can tell the absolute truth.
48:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, he has nothing to lose.
48:02 Speaker 00 Ashley, on the other hand, I'm not sure can tell the absolute truth because...
48:10 Speaker 00 She's facing a number of charges.
48:13 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, Jose could not tell the truth because he's upset with somebody. But I think probably on her own, that's going to be unlikely.
48:21 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, he's not gonna want to take the chance of messing up his immunity deal.
48:25 Speaker 01 Exactly.
48:27 Speaker 00 In opening statements, defense attorney Dan Marlowe argued that the two witnesses couldn't be telling the truth. Jose testified that at first, he and Nicholas planned to steal from the family because they needed money. Ashley pushed them to kill the family and provided the murder weapon. He and Nicholas both refused at first, but Ashley was being persistent, trying to convince us to do it. And, you know, that doesn't sound like the most believable thing in the world to me. I get it. She might have said, hey, just kill him.
49:00 Speaker 01 Right.
49:01 Speaker 00 But being persistent, trying to convince us to do it is, you know, a far cry from we had no choice but to do it.
49:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, exactly.
49:13 Speaker 00 I mean, you could have just said no, very easily. Jose eventually agreed to wait outside while Nicholas killed the family. And he would go in and help him remove valuables from the home. He changed his mind, though, once they arrived at the house. During cross-examination, Jose said he had a written statement promising he wouldn't be charged if he testified truthfully. The defense claimed prosecutors never provided such a document and asked for a mistrial. The judge asked both sides to file written arguments on the mistrial motion, which was denied the next day. Ashley denied Jose's version of events and said the boys planned the robbery on their own.
49:54 Speaker 00 She only agreed to give them a ride in exchange for a share of the stolen goods. She was surprised when news spread about the murders. She recanted her earlier statements that Nicholas was drenched in blood when she picked him up, but said she did see several blood stains on his pants.
50:13 Speaker 01 Okay, then why did you say originally he was drenched in blood?
50:17 Speaker 00 And again, she had already admitted that. Number one, she gave him a change of clothes and number two, she helped him dispose of the bloody clothes he was wearing. The jury also heard that state police interviewed Nicholas less than a week after the murders. Each time they talked to him, he denied any involvement and said he had no reason to kill the family. So we mentioned that there was a tip that came in very early on.
50:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:45 Speaker 00 Like within a few days about Nicholas, it does sound as though they interviewed him multiple times, but they couldn't get him to admit anything, even when told by police in 2013 that the row balls had talked to investigators and that cell records placed him near the home. He continued to deny his role and claimed he was with his parents and sisters that night. Prosecutors presented cell records showing phone and text interactions between Nicholas, Jose and Ashley. They didn't present the content of those texts or calls, nor any physical evidence placing Nicholas at the scene.
51:27 Speaker 01 Just show that they were communicating.
51:29 Speaker 00 Which I thought was a little strange because if they're all friends and, and you know, two of them are related, why would they not be communicating?
51:37 Speaker 01 Exactly.
51:38 Speaker 00 So to me, what are you actually showing? Now, if, if you got cell records that are putting them at the home that night, that's, that's different, but just records of phone and text interactions without the actual content.
51:57 Speaker 01 Right.
51:58 Speaker 00 Of those, I don't know what that means.
52:00 Speaker 01 If you had that, it changes everything.
52:04 Speaker 00 Nicholas's parents both testified he was home that night, but their stories didn't match.
52:10 Speaker 01 It, it's going to be tough to believe parents of a suspect, let alone.
52:18 Speaker 01 Suspect at 16 years old because I kind of believe that you're probably really concerned.
52:24 Speaker 00 As a parent?
52:25 Speaker 01 As a parent.
52:25 Speaker 00 And, and you would do anything to try to protect your kids, maybe even lie for them. Yeah, I, I get that. I think though, when your stories don't match, it kind of gives it away.
52:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:37 Speaker 00 They also testified that Nicholas didn't spend extended periods away from the home, except for when he stayed with an aunt in the fall. Nicholas told police he spent the day of the murders with the row balls, but went home at 10:00 PM and went to bed. However, his father Leonard testified that the family ate dinner together and watched movies until everyone went to sleep. Desiree Ortiz testified the entire family walked on the track at the local wellness center before they went to the store to get groceries, then went home to eat dinner and watch movies. She couldn't say for sure if Nicholas was there all night because she was working the night shift and left at 9:30 PM.
53:19 Speaker 01 I feel like the family should have got together.
53:21 Speaker 00 And said, here's our story. Everybody get in line with it. Leonard testified that Nicholas came into his room after midnight to wish him a happy Father's Day. On June 1st, 2016, the jury announced they were unable to reach a verdict. They were deadlocked eight to four in favor of guilt on the murder charges. So the judge declared a mistrial. Nicholas's retrial started on November 29th, 2016. The prosecution described Nicholas as a calculated killer who destroyed a family, while the defense pointed out the same weaknesses from the original trial. Lack of physical evidence and inconsistent witness statement.
54:04 Speaker 00 Then I get why possibly that the first jury could have been deadlocked. You've got, you know, the, the row balls up there telling, you know, contrasting stories.
54:16 Speaker 01 Yes.
54:17 Speaker 00 And differing versions of events.
54:20 Speaker 01 And you're thinking. Why are their stories not matching?
54:24 Speaker 00 And it doesn't sound like there's this mountain of evidence, right? Physical evidence, putting him at the scene, or, you know, eyewitnesses, or really anything like that. But they went through the trial, didn't take long, because on December 9th, 2016, Nicholas Ortiz was found guilty of three counts of murder, aggravated burglary, and conspiracy to commit aggravated burglary. On June 14th, 2018, Ashley was sentenced to 20 years in prison, with six years suspended for conspiracy to commit aggravated burglary and tampering with evidence.
55:04 Speaker 00 So it was almost two years after Nicholas was found guilty on the second trial that she was sentenced. But 20 years, no joke.
55:12 Speaker 01 No, it's not.
55:14 Speaker 00 In March 2019, the state Supreme Court reversed a district court ruling that would have granted Nicholas a third trial. On October 28th of that year, Nicholas received three concurrent 25-year sentences for murder.
55:30 Speaker 01 Good.
55:31 Speaker 00 It is good, but they're concurrent.
55:33 Speaker 01 I don't like when they do that, though.
55:35 Speaker 00 So it's basically 25 years?
55:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:38 Speaker 00 Now granted, he was only 16 years old. But to me, you know, with the heinousness of the murders, you would think that he could be tried as an adult. I mean, these were adult-like murders, killing three people with a pickaxe.
55:55 Speaker 01 And maybe the, the jury looked at him as a kid when it came to this.
56:02 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's possible. The family had asked for life without parole, and prosecutors wanted a 72-year sentence. So, you know, three 25-year sentences that are concurrent, that's a far cry from what the family and even the prosecutors wanted. Nicholas spoke at the sentencing hearing, telling the court, "He took a wrong turn early in life, but his sins found God and changed." He said, "I've come a long way from the child I was at 16, to the man I am at 24 today. I know I made some mistakes early on. I'm very sorry for the heartbreak everyone has had to endure. I did not do what I'm facing my life because of today."
56:46 Speaker 00 I was a little shocked that it took like eight years for him to be sentenced.
56:51 Speaker 01 That's a long time.
56:52 Speaker 00 The sentencing occurred almost three years after he was convicted. Now, I know there was appeals and, and things like that, but I'm, I'm still shocked that the sentencing took that long. On August 2nd, 2021, the New Mexico Supreme Court upheld Nicholas's conviction and sentence. According to court documents, before sentencing, the defense argued that Nicholas should be given an amenable hearing afforded to juvenile defendants to determine how likely it is he could be rehabilitated and whether he should be sentenced as an adult. The state argued that such hearings are only granted to defendants between the ages of 14 and 18,
57:33 Speaker 00 convicted of secondary murder or lesser crimes, or defendants 14 and younger convicted of first degree murder. Nicholas was 16 at the time of his arrest and was convicted of felony first degree murder.
57:47 Speaker 01 That's why he wasn't eligible.
57:49 Speaker 00 The judge held a hearing, but adjourned the proceedings without making a ruling. Nicholas's defense argued that the denial of an amenable hearing violated his rights, but the Supreme Court found that the sentencing procedure applied to this case and didn't violate his rights.
58:06 Speaker 01 I mean, look, I think he got lucky.
58:08 Speaker 00 With sentencing?
58:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:10 Speaker 00 I think so too. Now, losing 25 years of your life is, is never good, but for killing three people? That is a pretty light sentence. I get it. He was only 16 years old. But most 16 year olds that are convicted of a triple homicide in the manner that these occurred, I think would get more than 25 years in, in most instances. So I'm with you. I, I think he got pretty lucky as far as the amount of time that he's going to have to serve. The New Mexico Corrections Department offender search indicates that Ashley is out on probation.
58:52 Speaker 00 According to KRQE, Nicholas Ortiz has been in custody since his 2015 arrest and will receive credit for time served. He'll be required to serve 85% of his sentence and he'll be eligible for parole in late 2036 or early 2037.
59:11 Speaker 01 Got 10 more years.
59:13 Speaker 00 Yeah. And I think if you're the family, you're just not thrilled about that. You just don't think that 25 years or 85% of 25 years is anywhere close to paying for the crime that occurred and what was taken away from you. You know, a mother, a father, a brother.
59:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
59:35 Speaker 00 That's a lot to lose.
59:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't think you can be happy with the way it turned out.
59:40 Speaker 00 No, and you're not going to be happy when he gets out in about 10 years.
59:43 Speaker 01 No.
59:44 Speaker 00 But I don't know that there's really much that can be done about it. But that's it for our episode on the Ortiz family murders. We got some voicemails, Gibbs, you want to check those out?
59:54 Speaker 01 Let's hear it.
59:55 Speaker 02 Hi, guys. Love your show. I'm in the middle of listening to the Erica Green case and it's got me shaking out. Thank you for bringing the attention to all these cases. Oh, this was a rough one. Anyhow, I love your show. I listen to it every day when I'm driving, delivering mail. It helps pass the time. So I appreciate you guys and yeah, keep your own time ticking. Thanks.
1:00:24 Speaker 00 I appreciate the voicemail. You can hear the emotion there.
1:00:27 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
1:00:28 Speaker 00 And it was a tough case.
1:00:29 Speaker 01 It was.
1:00:30 Speaker 00 It was a tough case to research. It was a tough case to cover, to talk about. But some, you know, some of these cases, they need to be talked about.
1:00:39 Speaker 01 They do.
1:00:40 Speaker 00 I think Erica deserved.
1:00:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:43 Speaker 00 To have her story told, but no doubt, very tough one.
1:00:47 Speaker 01 Very tough.
1:00:48 Speaker 03 Hey, Gibby and Mike, it's Rick Smith on Patreon. We're Holly and Rick Smith. Been following you for a long time. My wife introduced me to you guys in 2017 and you got me through a long stretch of working out of state. Have not called you yet, but today Iowa State Cyclones kick the crap out of your Kentucky Wildcats. So I just had to say, keep your head on a swivel and go Cyclones.
1:01:13 Speaker 00 Boy, did they ever. And man, I was really hoping someone would come, would call in and remind me of that.
1:01:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:20 Speaker 00 No, they really did. They took it to my Wildcats and they were just so much better.
1:01:25 Speaker 01 They were, man. So much better.
1:01:28 Speaker 00 I thought we had a chance in the first half, but the second half wasn't even close.
1:01:32 Speaker 01 You had no chance.
1:01:32 Speaker 00 Had no chance.
1:01:33 Speaker 01 Cyclones kicked their butts.
1:01:35 Speaker 00 You have no idea what he's even talking about. You didn't watch the game. You're just parroting what he said. But we appreciate the support and the call very much.
1:01:46 Speaker 01 We do.
1:01:46 Speaker 00 We did have some mailbag. Tori Rasmussen sent in some Harley chips from the great state of Utah.
1:01:52 Speaker 01 Awesome.
1:01:53 Speaker 00 So we appreciate that very much. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike.
1:02:00 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
1:02:00 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
Previous Pearl Bruns Next Linda Slaten Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated