The Clear Lake Murders

In July 2003, four friends were gunned down inside a home in the Clear Lake area of Houston. The community was shocked and devastated that four young lives were brutally cut short. The fact that police could not identify the perpetrators only added to the pain and confusion that the victims’ families and friends experienced. Three years later, a Crimestoppers tip led to the identification of a surprising suspect. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murders of 18-year-old Rachael Koloroutis, 18-year-old Tiffany Rowell, 19-year-old Marcus Precella, and 21-year-old Adelbert Sanchez. Witnesses said they saw a man and a woman enter the home. But for years, the police had no idea who it was. The Crimestoppers tip revealed a suspect that no one would have thought capable of committing these horrible crimes. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:39Speaker 00

  Hello everyone and welcome to episode 486 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Yo, what's up? What's happening?

• 0:50Speaker 00

  All right. I like, I like the intro. You're always thinking of interesting things to say.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  Or interesting in your mind.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Well, it's always very interesting or captivating.

• 1:01Speaker 00

  You never know how it's gonna play.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Probably not good.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, sometimes good, sometimes not so good.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  We really like when Gibby just sticks to how he normally opens up the show, please.

• 1:09Speaker 00

  No, I think they like it when you go out on a limb.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12Speaker 00

  Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Penny.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Hey, Penae.

• 1:16Speaker 00

  Karaz SC.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Well, let's see, what's SC like soccer club or?

• 1:21Speaker 00

  South Carolina? I don't know.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24Speaker 00

  Kira Godomsky.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Hey, Godomsky.

• 1:27Speaker 00

  Jacqueline.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  What's going on Jacqueline?

• 1:29Speaker 00

  Matt Hendershot.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Hey, Matt.

• 1:31Speaker 00

  Bill Knox.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Appreciate that Knox.

• 1:33Speaker 00

  Todd Byrd.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Well, I wonder if everybody, anybody, anybody ever gives him the bird.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  They might.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  The bird, bird.

• 1:40Speaker 00

  Kirsten Vanderzat.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Well, that's a mouthful Vanderjock.

• 1:46Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Vander.

• 1:47Speaker 00

  I mean, you might be saying it correctly. You're not saying what I said, but.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Vanderjock.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  You might be saying it right. Annalise Larranga.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Hey, Annalise.

• 1:56Speaker 00

  And last but not least, Lucia Figueres jumped out of her highest love.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Oh, Figueres.

• 2:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then if we go back into the vault.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  This week, we selected Molly Hildebrand.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, good golly, Miss Molly.

• 2:11Speaker 00

  So, we appreciate the new support, the continued support. We've got a great lineup out right now.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  On Unsolved, which is out already.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20Speaker 00

  We're talking about 23-year-old David Grubbs, who was murdered along a popular bike path in Oregon in 2011, while he was heading home from work. So, you know, we're, what, 15 years later?

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36Speaker 00

  And despite police naming a person of interest, which is always fascinating to me in unsolved cases.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  His murder remains unsolved.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  And it's all, are you gone?

• 2:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, according to you. And the episode for TCAT Thursday is one that I just found fascinating. Nobody gets murdered, yet we're still talking about murder and mayhem. And, and it all revolves around this guy named Bob Ennis, who kind of benignly purchased a domain named rentahitman.com.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  And soon discovered that he had a whole bunch of people trying to hire hitmen.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  It's a serious, uh, episode, but I couldn't help but, uh, laugh.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  There were some humorous parts to it, even though you're talking about someone trying to end the life of other people. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?

• 3:33Speaker 01

  I am.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  We're talking about the Clear Lake murders. In July 2003, four friends were gunned down inside a home in the Clear Lake area of Houston. The community was shocked and devastated that four young lives were brutally cut short. The fact that police couldn't identify the perpetrators only added to the pain and confusion that the victims' families and friends experienced. Three years later, though, a Crime Stoppers tip led to the identification of a surprising suspect.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Always like surprises.

• 4:08Speaker 00

  Well, you know, we have changed up how we do True Crime All the Time a little bit. We've added some mystery, which people have asked us to do.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 4:16Speaker 00

  And I kind of like the way it works.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  You don't know all the time, right from the beginning, who done it.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Who did it?

• 4:25Speaker 00

  I like to say whodunit.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  Cause they call it a whodunit.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  What is a whodunit?

• 4:29Speaker 00

  The victims of the Clear Lake murders were 18 year old Rachel Colorado's, 18 year old Tiffany Rau, 19 year old Marcus Priscilla, and 20 year old Adelbert Sanchez. On July 18, 2003, police responded to Tiffany Rau's home in the 3700 block of Millbridge in the quiet Brook Forest subdivision of Clear Lake. Tiffany grew up in this home. Her mother died of cancer in 1998. Her father Chester remarried and moved to his wife's home in Manville, Texas, but Tiffany remained at the Clear Lake house. So that she wouldn't have to change schools her senior year.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Oh, that makes sense.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  It does, and a lot of people do that, right? They get it, something changes in the family dynamic, but who really going into their senior year wants to have to change school?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Well, and I think it's important, especially if you're in your last year or two, to stay as stable as possible.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know what kids like a lot? Stability.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  Now, they don't always get it, but they like it.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  I think most people like stability.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  I would say everybody does, really. For the past three years, Tiffany had been dating Marcus Priscilla, a graduate of Clear Lake High. Friends said that they seemed happy together. Tiffany was described as someone who was friendly, lovable, and always had a smile on her face. She was a talented actress and wanted to be a social worker. She was best friends with Rachel Colorado's, who enjoyed art and creative writing. Rachel was undecided on which college she wanted to attend and was considering joining the military. Then, you know, at that age, Gibbs, when you're in your senior year, you're getting ready to graduate, man, there are so many options to think about.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  There really are.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  Now, some people take the route of going to college. Some people decide, hey, college is not for me. Maybe they want to go into the trades or they want to join the military. But really, there are limitless options for people.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, possibilities.

• 6:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  It's always good to have those.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  Rachel and Tiffany were some of the most popular girls at Clear Lake High. They had just graduated in May 2003, only two months before they died. That summer, Tiffany and Rachel got jobs bartending and waiting tables at Club Exotica, a topless bar on the Gulf Freeway. Rachel spent a lot of time at Tiffany's house and moved in with her just two weeks before the murders. The Houston Chronicle reported that Rachel ran away from her parents' home and they were looking for her at the time of her death.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, so she was missing.

• 7:19Speaker 00

  But not surprising, right, that Rachel would go to Tiffany's house. Tiffany's living in this big house all by herself and the two had been friends, best friends for a long time.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Just makes sense.

• 7:31Speaker 00

  Marcus Priscilla was attending San Jacinto College and finishing up coursework for an automotive technology certificate. He decided to enroll in fall classes to pursue a business degree while working part-time as a waiter at a seafood restaurant. Marcus loved working on his car and spending time with his family and Tiffany. His family knew Tiffany well and they thought highly of her. Like Rachel, Marcus also spent a lot of time at Tiffany's home in Clear Lake.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Sounds like it was the house to be at.

• 8:04Speaker 00

  Well, you're 18, 19 years old and you got a house? Okay, that's a pretty big deal.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  It is a big deal.

• 8:15Speaker 00

  Marcus's cousin, Adelbert Sanchez, loved rap music and sang with the local group. He planned to go to college and study computer technology. He lived at home in North Houston until the week he was killed. He decided to go and stay with Marcus for a while and the whole group ended up staying at Tiffany's home. And again, right, why not? She's living in this house, however big it is, she's there by herself.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:43Speaker 00

  I'm sure quite a number of people could have stayed there and it sounds like they did. But to me, it's also about decisions, fateful decisions, right? Not bad decisions per se, but in the case of, you know, Adelbert, he decides to go see his cousin. And it would ultimately turn out to be fateful for him. Friends said that they were having the time of their lives. The night before the murders, Marcus and Adelbert went to a party. Two of those party guests returned with them to Tiffany's house, but left well before the murders. Those guests were interviewed and cleared by police.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Consider them lucky.

• 9:25Speaker 00

  Well, you know, they're going to be talked to and have to be cleared. And in this case, they were. Tiffany and Rachel worked the night of July 17th and returned to the house early in the morning of July 18th, 2003, when they were killed later that afternoon. The four victims had just woken up and were in the living room watching TV. Around 2:30 PM, two people were seen going to the house. They were described as a man and a woman, both young and both wearing all black, despite the hot summer day. The man was blonde and the woman had her hair covered by a cap and was carrying a large bag.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Okay. I mean, it is suspicious. I mean, you're in Texas, a hot summer day and you're on, and you're wearing all black.

• 10:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, it gets very hot in Houston in the summer.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  And it would be weird to see somebody dressed in all black or two people.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:22Speaker 00

  Even more strange.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Unless they were named Johnny.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  Cash.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Police believe the victims were killed between 3:00 and 3:30 PM, when neighbors reported hearing noises that could have been gunfire. And it's interesting, Gibbs, because you and I talk about this a lot. You know, people hearing something, let's say from, you know, down the road, another house, a neighboring house. They think it could be gunfire, could be a car backfiring. They don't know exactly what it is.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  So what do you do? Do you pick up the phone and say, hey, police, I think I hear gunshots? I know where I live, people don't do that.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Because there are gunshots. I hear them all the time.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  I don't think that many people actually call into the police anymore.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  And I think there's a reason for it. Probably first and foremost, people don't want to be wrong. You don't want to waste the police's time when it turns out to be nothing. And let's face it, most of the time, it probably is nothing.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  The problem is when it's something, well, then the police get involved later than what they could have. But it's hard to make that argument that somebody, you know, made a serious error in not calling. Unless they were for sure it was gunshots and.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  That's different.

• 11:48Speaker 00

  That would be different. Unless you live in a more rural area like I do, there's, there's plenty of land around me and people do shoot guns. I hear them.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Surely, yeah, I do when I leave here.

• 11:59Speaker 00

  There have been times where it's come through the episode and I've had to edit it out.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 12:07Speaker 00

  At 6:30 PM, friends who stopped by the home ran outside screaming that people had been shot. Neighbors entered the home and recalled to the Houston Chronicle that they initially thought the man and woman on the couch were just watching TV until they saw bullet holes in their heads and blood throughout the living room.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  It's almost like one of those, uh, movies by that really good director.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  Tarantino?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  That's where I figured you were going.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  It's like a scene from one of his movies, you know, you're walking in and they look like they're just watching TV until you see all the way through their head, the light.

• 12:44Speaker 00

  But no doubt, this would be a very scary thing, right, to have happen. I'm sure these neighbors were concerned, I guess, maybe because of what they had heard, which is weird because I just said, well, they didn't call the police, but at some point, they must have figured, hey, we should go over and check on them.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Just make sure, you know, peek in, see what we can see.

• 13:07Speaker 00

  The victims were sitting up with their heads bowed as if they were asleep. The house was silent except for the TV. On the floor was a young woman laying face down in a pool of blood. A man was behind the couch. There were no signs of forced entry. Police couldn't tell if anything had been stolen.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Well, just because there wasn't forced entry doesn't mean like the door, I mean, the door could just been unlocked.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  Could have been, or they could have let their killers in.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  I mean, that, that is a direct possibility. The, the forced entry is always interesting because obviously if you have forced entry, if the, the door frame is busted, as though someone kicked it in, well, that tells you something. But the absence of forced entry, I don't know that it tells you as much. The victims were killed in a swift and unprovoked attack, as reported by the Houston Chronicle. Adelbert and Tiffany weren't able to get off the couch before they were killed. Tiffany was shot seven times throughout her body, including the head and face.

• 14:17Speaker 00

  Adelbert was shot six times in the head, neck, torso, arm, and shoulder. Marcus died from wounds to the head, abdomen, and right arm. He also had blunt force head injuries. Rachel died from blunt force to the head and had gunshots to her lower abdomen and lower extremities. I mean, just picture this, this is an absolutely brutal crime scene.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it sounds like a kill squad went in there.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  Earlier that day, Rachel's parents drove to the Brook Forest area and went past Tiffany's house. They heard from one of Rachel's friends that she might be staying in the house and had driven through the subdivision hoping for a glimpse of her. And we said it, right? Her parents weren't sure where Rachel was in the week kind of leading up to her death. I did think about it though, with her and Tiffany being such good friends, her parents probably had to know that Tiffany was living there by herself, that her dad had moved, and they had to have at least a sneaking suspicion that maybe Rachel was there.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  I would think so.

• 15:26Speaker 00

  In the days after the murders, there was talk among the victims' friends that the deaths were drug related. Witnesses told investigators that Adelbert and Marcus were allegedly drug dealers and people came to the house to buy from them. Police acknowledged that drugs were used, bought and sold among the four friends and others, but maintained that the motive was unknown. And I think anytime you have drugs. That has to be a possible motive. If you add in the fact that there's even the possibility that someone was selling drugs. Well, then I think that motive gets a little bit more, you know, higher on the, the possibility

• 16:08Speaker 00

  list because when you're selling drugs, then there's money involved and more motive.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you get, you have to worry about that. You know, if they're selling drugs, you also have to worry about, are they pushing into somebody else's territory, taking money away from, uh, from that dealer?

• 16:26Speaker 00

  Somebody who maybe is way bigger than them and more ruthless.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  That's a real possibility. But a year passed with no answers. The Houston Chronicle reported that police had followed many fruitless leads. Talking about the murders was too painful for the families to do in-person interviews, but they agreed to answer questions from the Chronicle via email. Adelbert Sanchez's stepmother, who helped raise him, wrote, "I don't know how to explain our pain and suffering. It has broken our hearts." Rachel's father, George, wrote, "This pain can't be handled. It's the worst pain life has to offer." And I cannot even imagine, Gibbs, losing a child.

• 17:11Speaker 00

  I, I just can't, especially in this type of horrific fashion.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it would definitely be rough.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Investigators noted that they were still seeking the two people who visited the home on the afternoon of the murders. They also wanted to hear from a caller who contacted Crime Stoppers in early May 2004 with a tip that may have referred to the two visitors. So police know about these two individuals. They have to be at the top or near the top, right, of the, the people that they want to identify and talk to. Hard not to believe that there's a real strong chance that they were either somehow involved or were the perpetrators.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  So you gotta follow through.

• 17:58Speaker 00

  But they don't know who they are. Houston Police Sergeant Wayman Allen said at a press conference in June 2004 that any potential motives were of little importance without suspects. And that's an interesting statement because a lot of times you talk about motives leading to suspects. And here he's saying, well, people are throwing around motives, but we don't have any suspects, so.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Can't tie them together.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  Doesn't really do us much good. He noted that the victims were all very young, very immature and on their own. But he said, while they may have exercised bad judgment, they didn't deserve what happened to them.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  I mean, to be, what, 18, 19, living in a big house in Clear Lake, probably living it up. You know, not really thinking a lot about the consequences of life.

• 18:53Speaker 00

  Or, or what could go wrong.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  But you and I have been pretty honest, sometimes brutally honest about, you know, some of the decisions we made when we were 18, 19. And I'm sure a lot of people listening would say, oh my gosh, I made some horrible decisions and did some things that I surely wouldn't do today. And then they would say, well, don't call me Shirley, but you know, who's not immature at 18, 19? Now, not everybody, but to some degree, most of us were in, in some ways.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  I'm sure there's probably somebody listening that had to go on to a, an ankle monitor system.

• 19:36Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. When they were young.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:38Speaker 00

  And then again, when they were in their 30s.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, potentially.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  Allegedly.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 00

  The victims' families never stopped searching for answers. Rachel's father, George Coloratus, printed and handed out flyers to local residents and he put up multiple billboards along the Houston highway to raise awareness about the case. He offered a $100,000 reward for information. And that's amazing work. Now, you have to be able to do that. You have to have the resources to be able to do that. And not every family member does. But if you do, there's probably not many of us that wouldn't go to that extent.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's amazing that he did.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  Rachel's mom and Colorado said about her husband's effort per 2020. He was able to think with his head when all I wanted to do was think with my heart. But George never gave up.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  I mean, he sounds like he was kind of like the glue, you know, trying to keep the family together through this tragic time.

• 20:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would agree with that, but you know, the other thing is I'm sure he was emotional, but he was also able to kind of continue to plow forward with, you know, a lot of critical thought.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  And some people just aren't able to do that. The emotions kind of overwhelm them.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  I think it'd be hard to keep a level head, but like you said, there are people that in events like this, they find a way to keep that, you know, level head.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  George said, I thought that would have a really meaningful and loud impact on the community. And it would make these killers come out from hiding. And, and we've talked about rewards a lot, especially the amount of rewards.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  In Australian cases, we often see very, very high rewards. Now here in the U.S., by and large, in comparison, most rewards, unless the family is well off and they're putting it up themselves, most rewards are pretty small.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 00

  5,000, maybe 10,000. Very rarely do you see rewards go into the triple digits, right? Hundreds of thousands of dollars. And why does that make a difference?

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I think the more you offer, the more potential people will come out of the bushes.

• 22:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think the higher reward, the greater the chance that someone is willing to come forward and maybe roll on over somebody else.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, because there's some risk there, right? If you're gonna, you know, tell on somebody, you're going to want to make sure that you have, you're compensated for it.

• 22:37Speaker 00

  Three years after the murders in July 2006, a man called Crime Stoppers with a promising tip. He provided details only known to investigators such as how Rachel tried to crawl away after she was shot. And the fact that a phone was found near her hand. So I'm assuming that, you know, these were details that were not publicized at all. Right. We talk about what do police keep back? What do they hold back from the public? And this is one of the reasons why.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, makes confirming some of these stories a lot easier.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  The tipster named two perpetrators, a man and a woman. He thought the man's name was Chris, but he was certain about the woman's identity. She was Christine Paleya, a former classmate of Rachel and Tiffany at Clear Lake High. They were shot by Christine's boyfriend at the time in a drug deal gone wrong. And Christine Paleya was only 17 years old at the time of the murders. She was a grade below Rachel and Tiffany.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Just a kid.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  Crystal had a difficult childhood. Her father died in a construction job site accident when she was a child. And her mother Lori struggled with drug abuse. Growing up, Christine was bullied because she has alopecia and had to wear wigs to school. And we talk about bullying all the time. I, I know it, it does still happen. I think as a whole, our society has worked very hard to kind of tamp it down.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  But when you and I were in school, bullying was rampant.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  It was, and it wasn't bullying you from the couch on a social media app, which is terrible today. I get it.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  It is. It is terrible.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  This was like the bullies were in your face.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. And they would pick on people for just about anything.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that would be rough as a, as a, you know, boy or girl, but as a girl to have your hair. Coming out?

• 24:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  It would be tough.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  It would be very hard. She was a reserved person, Christine, and struggled during her first few years of high school. She was insecure about her appearance because of her alopecia. Rachel and Tiffany befriended Krista and took her under their wing for the first time. It seemed like Christine was liked and widely accepted by her peers. And we said it, right? Rachel and Tiffany were two of the most popular kids at their school.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's kind of like that show with Rachel McAdams and.

• 25:27Speaker 00

  Mean Girls?

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Mean Girls.

• 25:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. In 2003, her classmates voted Christine Miss Irresistible. Christine's mother told 2020, they did it because they felt that she was the person who they just loved because of the way she was, the person she was. And so, I mean, that's, it's a feel-good story, that part of it. You know, here's a girl who's really struggling because of this condition she has. These two very popular girls take her under her wing. And from that point on, she seems to do well in school and she's liked and all of that. But now it's thought that she killed these two people, or at least had a hand in it.

• 26:13Speaker 00

  And investigators were faced with the question, why would Christine want to harm the girls who were kind to her during that difficult time in her life?

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, because it wasn't like how it was for you in school when you were voted Mr. Resistible. You know, she was voted Ms. Irresistible by her friends.

• 26:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was actually very resistible for quite a time there.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Still are.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you very much. But it's a real dilemma, right? It doesn't seem like she would be the first person to pop off the list or off the page as someone who wanted to do harm to these two people.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  It's not adding up right now.

• 26:59Speaker 00

  Investigators soon identified their second suspect as Christine's ex-boyfriend, Christopher Snyder, who was 21 years old in 2003. Investigators believe that Christine and Christopher came to Tiffany's house to buy drugs from Adelbert and Marcus, but something went wrong that led to the shooting. After receiving the tip, police secured a warrant for Christine's arrest in San Antonio, where she had been staying in a hotel with her husband Stanley Justin Rock. So this is kind of, you know, interesting from this standpoint in that, you know, three years have gone by, right? Certain people have gone on with their lives.

• 27:43Speaker 00

  Christie has gotten married to a different guy, not the guy who was her boyfriend back in 2003.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess it, you know, if you don't have a conscience, you can do that. You can move on with your life.

• 27:58Speaker 00

  Well, even if you do, I guess short of giving yourself up, what else can you do? Now, it might haunt you. It might eat at you every day. I, I think to a lot of criminals it doesn't, but I don't know about Christine. Stanley met Christine at a drug treatment center in November 2004. They got married four months later. It was later revealed that Stanley was the one who called Crime Stoppers.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  At the end of the day, he had to do the right thing.

• 28:30Speaker 00

  Which is amazing. It always is because it's one thing to do the right thing when it's easy. How easy is it though, to do the right thing and report a crime that your wife was involved in before you met her?

• 28:46Speaker 01

  I mean, it changes. How you view that person?

• 28:52Speaker 00

  I know it would for me.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I fell in love with what I thought was this person, but you're this person. And if I would have known that ahead of time, I would have never been over here with you and married you.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  So Christine vaguely told Stanley about an incident with her former boyfriend that resulted in the deaths of four people. On a later occasion, she elaborated that she and Christopher went to Tiffany's house in Clear Lake. Just before entering, Christopher handed her a gun that she carried in her purse. The intention was to take drugs and money, not hurt anyone. She claimed Christopher was the shooter. After fleeing the house, Christine told Christopher that she needed to make sure everyone was really dead. She returned to find Rachel choking on her own blood. She admitted to beating Rachel with her gun until she died.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  I mean, why not just shoot her?

• 29:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know. Maybe she wasn't familiar with firearms. Maybe she didn't want to shoot a gun. I have no idea. But imagine being Stanley and your wife telling you this story. And the story is not just, hey, my ex boyfriend killed some people. That's not the story. This is a plan. We went in there to do this, this, and this. Now, according to her, it got out of hand. They didn't mean to hurt anybody. But she admits to him that although she didn't shoot anybody, she beat Rachel until she was dead.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think unless you've got a lot of skeletons in your closet, too, you gotta say, hey, I'm out.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  I'm telling you, man, that's going to be a tough one to look past.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:41Speaker 00

  I know they say love is blind and all of that. Now, if you'd been married for 30 years, I don't know, maybe it changes things, maybe it doesn't. I think if you're just a few years into the relationship, this is a real bombshell. Actually, 30 years in might be a bigger bombshell, but you've developed a much stronger bond theoretically.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:05Speaker 00

  I don't know. I don't know if, I don't know if you could handle it at any point. I really don't. Christine was arrested on July 19th, 2006. When officers entered the room, they saw that she and Stanley had been using heroin. There were hundreds of used syringes in the room. Christine was wearing a bloodstained t-shirt and had needle marks on her body.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  So it sounds like the drug treatment didn't go well.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  No, no, that's where they met, but apparently they continued to do drugs. That fact, though, is it even more amazing that Stanley made the phone call? Cause you mentioned it, right? If you don't have a lot of skeletons in your closet, or you do. I think he had some. He had some not skeletons in his closet. They were doing criminal stuff right then and there.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think maybe for him too. You know, when you come out of rehab, you need stability. And you know what's not stable? Is when you find out that the woman you married committed multiple murders. That's gonna mess with you.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I think it would be tough in any situation, but maybe more so in that one. But this sounds like just a horrible situation. Right there in this room, hundreds of used syringes. And she's wearing a bloodstained t-shirt with needle marks all up and down her body.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Well, when you're doing drugs like that, you just, I mean, you just have no care. You know, about your appearance and things around you and.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can only imagine. Christine agreed to a videotaped interview. In this first interview, she admitted to driving Christopher to Tiffany's home. They went there to buy drugs, but they made a return trip. When Christopher complained about forgetting something. Christine insisted that Christopher went into the house by himself on both occasions, while she remained in the car. When he returned the second time, she saw him running with a gun in his hands. She denied hearing any gunshots. The questioning ended, but Christine remained alone in the room with the recorder still going. She began to deteriorate and appeared weak and sick.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  The recording ended when she requested to see a nurse.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  She probably started thinking about that that day and what she had done and seen.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  And there's also the effects of the heroin use and all that. But you know, what I want to talk about is her side of the story. Right. Cause it's always fascinating to hear two sides of a story. When you have multiple people involved or three sides, or however many people there are to have sides. Cause it's going to be interesting to what Christopher has to say because she's basically putting it all on him. And to investigate her, she's not admitting to even going inside the house.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  Let alone beating Rachel to death after she had been shot.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  She's kind of acting like she's a victim too.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. Christine was transported to the hospital where she reported that she was experiencing heroin withdrawal. She told doctors she was accustomed to taking heroin every 10 to 15 minutes. And her last injection was at 10 a.m.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  There you go with a hundred plus needles and around her. So that would make sense.

• 34:46Speaker 00

  I had no idea that that was even a possibility. I remember, you know, in the days where people smoked a lot.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  You know, very common for someone to light one up as soon as they put the, the one out. Or at the very least, every 10 to 15 minutes, right? Have a cigarette, but heroin is a, you know, that's a different animal. I'm not saying cigarettes are good for you by any means, but heroin every 10 to 15 minutes.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  It's a high level addiction.

• 35:19Speaker 00

  It is. Number one, the fact that you have to use the needle on yourself that often. But number two, let's talk about the, the cost of that much heroin. That, that daily habit, where are you getting that money?

• 35:37Speaker 01

  You're selling things or you're selling yourself or you're robbing.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Or you're robbing. At 5:30, she was given a dose of morphine and methadone. Christine was questioned again that evening at the hospital. Once again, she denied ever entering the home, but said there was a fight inside and Christopher admitted to shooting all four victims. Christine was flown to Houston later that evening after she was discharged from the hospital. She had an unrecorded interview on the afternoon of July 20th and asked to see a doctor. She was taken to the hospital and again treated for heroin withdrawal. She was discharged late that evening and taken back to police headquarters. She had a final videotaped interrogation at 11:38 PM.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  During this interview, she claimed Christopher forced her to go inside with him. When they returned to the house, he made her hold one of his guns. She denied aiming at anyone, but said Christopher put his hand over hers and pulled the trigger a number of times while she held the gun in her hand. So here we have the changing story, which always has to be analyzed.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Sure it does.

• 36:53Speaker 00

  We start off with, I was never even inside the home to, I was inside the home, but Christopher made me go. He even went as far as forcing me to hold the gun in his hand while he wrapped his hand around it and pulled the trigger.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, before that, she said, he went in and he killed all four people. Now they're both in there and he's forcing his hand on her hand and making her pull the trigger. But you know, the problem I see with this is that there's four people. And unless you're like, super experienced.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  And a really quick shot.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and a good shot.

• 37:34Speaker 00

  And a good shot.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  I don't think you're going to get all four people by yourself.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  And let's not forget, it was said that some of these people never even got off the couch.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like they didn't even have the opportunity to move.

• 37:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it does make you question whether one person could have done all that in the way that it's thought that it went down.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  I mean, unless they were all, and I think it would have been in the reports, you know, from the police, unless they were all on heroin and they couldn't move.

• 38:06Speaker 00

  And that's a possibility. We don't know. On July 21st, 2006, the Houston Police Department announced that capital murder charges had been filed against Christine Paoli and Christopher Snyder. But Christopher was still a large. He was on parole for a robbery conviction in Kentucky, but authorities determined he fled to Greenville, South Carolina. A body believed to be that of Christopher Snyder was found in Greenville, South Carolina on August 5th, 2006. He had been in Greenville for about three weeks and was living with a 36-year-old woman he met on MySpace.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  The old MySpace.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was never, you know me, I've never been a huge social media person.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:53Speaker 00

  I never had a MySpace page. So I have no idea what it was even. I know it was kind of like a Facebook or something like that.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  Kind of.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  But it was said that Christopher was last seen on July 20th. Authorities believe a relative warned him there was a warrant out for his arrest in connection with the murders. That day, Christopher fought with his girlfriend about the warrants in Texas. He told her he was wanted for homicide and took several bottles of painkillers before he left her house on foot, wearing only a shirt and shorts. Jerry Reed, the woman's friend, told The Chronicle, she didn't have a clue. He was a suspect in the murders. The woman told him she met Christopher months earlier, and he briefly visited her from Texas several weeks ago. She also visited Texas before Christopher decided to move.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  Okay, so this is someone that, you know, you started talking to on MySpace. You hit it off. You've met in person a couple of times. Now, he's in South Carolina, living with you, and all of a sudden, you find out that he's wanted for murder. It's gonna change some things. It also goes back to that old question. Do you really know who you're talking to online? For that matter, do you really know anybody? Well, that's a good point. When a relationship first starts, if you're meeting them out of the blue for the, you know, it's not like you went to school with them your whole life. You've worked with them for years and years and years.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  If you just meet somebody at a bar randomly, what do you really know about that person? Well, we all have a history. Yeah, and we've probably all been in that situation in the past. Yeah. Where you meet someone, you hit it off, maybe even go home and, you know, have a few Coca Colas and a little rumpus room action, but... Wake up in handcuffs and is that where you were going? And only your boxers and your wallet and clothes are gone. Yeah. And you're handcuffed to the bed. But, you know, what are the chances that you're taking home or you're going home with a killer? That's a scary thought, but you know what? We don't think about that when we're 20. No, we don't.

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Or 21 or whatever. We're just happy someone wants to take us home. Absolutely. Christopher's body was found in a wooded area across the street from his girlfriend's house. A K-9 team searched the area after Houston police learned from a family member that Christopher made comments in the past that would suggest suicide as an option. Police suspected Christopher may have overdosed on the pills he took from his girlfriend. So, I mean, it does sound to me like he was made aware that police were looking for him. They had tied him to these murders and he made the decision that he was gonna end his life.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, didn't want to have to go through. Whatever was about to come. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it seems like to me. In July 2007, Stanley Rod did an interview with the Houston Chronicle and shared previously unpublicized details of her confession. He said that as part of his 12-step recovery program, he had to do what was right, which meant sharing what he knew. He also said that Christine's story gave him nightmares.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  I bet it did.

• 42:24Speaker 00

  Especially if you're sleeping next to the person who told you the story. Christine and Stanley married in March 2005. He didn't recall the exact date. She told him what happened, but it happened while they were living in a hotel in San Antonio between the fall of 2005 and the spring of 2006. So that would have been after they got married.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:47Speaker 00

  Which is important.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  I mean, if he would have married her after that, okay, I gotta pause a little bit there.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  She probably felt comfortable like, hey, we're married now. I'm gonna tell you something.

• 43:01Speaker 00

  He can't testify against me, maybe.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe she thought that.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  He told the Chronicle, when she mentioned it to me, it was so overwhelming. I couldn't believe she was the person I married. I didn't understand it. It was so much of a shock and I was in denial. And I think anybody whose wife or husband, right, spouse, came at them all of a sudden and said, hey, I want to tell you this story that involves the murder of four people. And I was there and to some degree involved. Now, she minimized her involvement. I think shock is an understanding.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:38Speaker 00

  I don't even know what the word or feeling would be. Christine told him that she and Christopher went to Tiffany's house on the afternoon of July 18, 2003. Instead of parking in the driveway, they parked at the end of the street. They were let in because Christine knew the victims. According to Stanley, their intention was to hang out and do drugs. Once inside, Christine went to another part of the house with Rachel, while the rest of the group sat in the living room. When the girls returned, Christopher was holding a gun on Marcus, Adelbert, and Tiffany, who were sitting on a couch. Christine claims she didn't know what happened that led Christopher to draw the gun.

• 44:20Speaker 00

  They were pleading for their lives, telling Christopher he could take what he wanted and asking him to leave. They didn't try to fight him verbally or physically. Christine pulled a gun from her purse, which Christopher gave her before they went inside. Christopher fired the first shot. He killed Marcus and Adelbert, and then Christine shot the girls. They left the home with a bag of drugs.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  All that for a bag of drugs.

• 44:51Speaker 00

  So, you know, let's break down this story that Stanley is relaying, and compare it to the story that Christine told investigators. It is very much different.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  It is.

• 45:06Speaker 00

  I mean, this has her equally culpable as Christopher, right? Christopher killed the two men. Christine killed the two girls. They knew that three of the victims were dead, but Christine mentioned that they needed to go back and make sure everyone was dead. According to Stanley, Rachel was on the floor, choking on her own blood. She was dying. That's what bothers me the most. Christine saw Rachel like that, and she beat Rachel to death. Christine cried while doing it. I don't know if she felt she had to do it. She beat her friend to death. I mean, this is powerful stuff, if true.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  And I think if you're weighing the truthfulness on a scale, and you have Stanley on one side and you have Christine on the other, I mean, who do you feel is more likely to be telling the truth?

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Stanley doesn't have a reason to lie.

• 46:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, he doesn't really have to cover his ass, right? The way that Christine does.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  I still don't get why she had to beat poor Rachel at that time. I mean, she beat her with a gun. Why didn't you just go ahead and? Shoot her and have it be over so she didn't continue to suffer.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  Or maybe pick up the phone and call 911 right before you leave.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  That would have been nice, but.

• 46:28Speaker 00

  Maybe she could have been saved. Now, there's no guarantee. She might have been to the point where nobody could have saved her life. The Chronicle reported that Rachel tried to call 911 on her cellphone at 3:12 PM. Christine clocked into work shortly before 4:00 PM that afternoon. And to me, that's amazing. You could shoot two of your friends and beat one of them to death while she was dying. And then within an hour, you're clocked in at work like nothing happened.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  I still gotta work. I gotta get there.

• 47:08Speaker 00

  The Chronicle noted that Stanley's account differed from what Christine told police. Stanley also talked about his and Christine's drug use. He said they were spending about $10,000 on drugs. That money was part of Christine's inheritance she received after her father died. So we asked the question, right? How much would that cost? How do you pay for all those drugs? Well, now we're getting the answer.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was just going through her inheritance.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Stanley was on probation at the time of his interview for failure to appear. He was not charged with heroin possession. So, I mean, you know, I just said, who do you believe? I think we do have to take into account that, all right, Stanley wasn't quite walking the straight and narrow.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:57Speaker 00

  But I guess what would be his motive for lying? Unless it was to try to get out of some charge. And I guess that is a possibility.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  I mean, it is a possibility, but I think kind of unlikely.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Opening statements in Christine Paley's Capitol murder trial began on September 30th, 2008. Prosecutors said Christine and her then boyfriend Christopher Snyder gunned down the four victims on July 18th, 2003, after Christine shot Rachel, who was supposed to be her best friend. She returned to the home and beat her to death with her gun as she was crawling to the phone to call 911. Testimony would show that Rachel asked Christine, "Why are you doing this to me?" before she was beaten to death. And that's heartbreaking. I mean, this is a person that you thought was your friend. I mean, we mentioned it, right? These two girls had gone out of their

• 48:58Speaker 00

  way to take Christine under their wing.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, they befriended her, made her a popular girl at their school.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  The defense disputed the allegations and said Christine was befriended by Rachel and Tiffany, but was influenced by bad guys who became her boyfriends. Christine's attorney described her as a lost, sad little girl, alone in the world, per the Houston Chronicle.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, that can't happen.

• 49:28Speaker 00

  It can happen. I think the other thing that really jumps out to me here is that, you know, Christopher Snyder is no longer alive, so he can't tell his side of the story. And we don't know what he would have said. According to the defense, Christopher Snyder tricked Marcus Purcella out of drugs and then took Christine back to the house to show her he wasn't scared. When they arrived, Christopher opened fire with a 9mm semi-automatic pistol with 16 bullets. He jammed a 38 caliber revolver into Christine's stomach to try to force her to help. And that

• 50:09Speaker 00

  goes back to my statement. The defense can say pretty much anything about Christopher because he can't be questioned.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  They can't dispute it.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  So he can't deny. Nor can he corroborate anything. The defense also suggested that Christine's husband reported her to claim the reward money and further alleged that Stanley made a deal with the state to testify falsely against Christine, so he would not be prosecuted on drug charges. And I think whether it's true or not, that's a really good defense to make because I did ask the question, right? What is his motive for turning Christine in?

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, what's his gain?

• 50:53Speaker 00

  He was addicted to heroin.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:55Speaker 00

  So you could argue that maybe the inheritance money was running out or had run out and he could get a bunch of money.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Hundred thousand.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  In reward money. Or you could argue that, okay, they're found with a bunch of drugs in the hotel room. And the reason why he wasn't prosecuted or charged with the heroin is because he rolled over on Christine?

• 51:22Speaker 01

  And it could have helped his case with all the drugs in the room. You know, he did come forward what he knew and they could have said, you know what? We're not going to charge you with this. Like, we know that they didn't charge him.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  Now, the, the counter argument to that for me is that he called the Crime Stoppers number before that.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:43Speaker 00

  So I think if you're the prosecution, right? You gotta, you gotta play that angle up. Retired Police Sergeant Tom Lad testified that by looking at the position of Rachel's body and other evidence, he thought she opened the door to the killers and tried to run away from them. He said, she saw something that scared her and she broke and ran. He described it as a gory scene, saying all of the victims had suffered multiple gunshot wounds. Sanchez and Rao appeared not to have been able to get off the couch they were sitting on. Two eyewitnesses placed Christine at the scene of the crime. Michelle and Craig Lackner live next door to Tiffany.

• 52:27Speaker 00

  They testified that on the day of the shooting, they both saw a young man and woman casually walk down the street and approach Tiffany's house. In court, they identified Christine as the woman. They denied seeing her with a gun, but she was carrying a purse. They also picked Christopher out of a photo lineup. Christine's husband Stanley was a key prosecution witness. He testified about Christine's confession and calling Crime Stoppers to turn her in. Kim Downs, the state firearms examiner testified that bullets from two guns were found at the scene and found in the bodies of Tiffany and Marcus.

• 53:07Speaker 00

  These bullets were traced to two handguns found in Louisville, Kentucky, in a safe inside the home of Christopher Snyder's stepfather.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  It always amazes me that people keep the guns that were used in a murder.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, it does me too, because guns, like we said before, are fairly easy to dispose of.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  You know, there's large bodies of water. There's the Godfather II route, where you just take the gun apart and put bits and pieces down chimneys as you run across the rooftops. But yeah, I just, I don't know, they must think, well, they're never going to connect me, and so there's no reason to get rid of it. But what does that do? Yeah, the guns were found in a safe that belonged to his stepfather. But it's also confirmed that two guns were used at the scene. Now, how many perpetrators use two different guns? I don't think many.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  No, pretty rare.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think if you have two people at the scene, it's pretty reasonable to conclude that each one of those persons fired a separate gun. Defense psychiatrist Dr. George Glass testified that Christine was going through heroin withdrawals. When she gave statements to police, she would have told investigators anything, as long as she thought it would help her get drugs to relieve her pain. Hospital records he reviewed stated that Christine was addicted to heroin. In her videotaped statements, she appeared to be having withdrawal symptoms.

• 54:46Speaker 00

  Glass also said that Christine had a poor self-image. Both Christine and her mother told him that she lost her hair as a child and was teased at school for wearing wigs. Jurors viewed Christine's statement in which she told police that Christopher was responsible. She accompanied him to the house to buy drugs and the shootings took place when they returned. She claimed she didn't know he intended to shoot the victim. She did not go inside. When Christopher went to the house the first time to buy drugs from Marcus, they returned to the home later that afternoon, but this time they parked down the street and Christopher gave her a gun. They were led into the house and Christopher and Marcus started arguing.

• 55:30Speaker 00

  Christine said, per the Houston Chronicle, "I was holding the gun down. I didn't want to point it at anybody. I'd never even touched a gun before. I heard the first gunshot. I didn't think it hit anyone. She was crouched behind a pillar." Christine recalled, "I felt so scared, I heard another one go off. The girl started screaming. It felt like I could hear bubble wrap pop. It was pop, pop, pop, pop." The gunfire continued and Christopher summoned her to the living room. She said, "He took my gun and held it in my hand. He had my hand on the handle. The gun went off." And according to Christine, she said, "It felt like a million times."

• 56:13Speaker 00

  She ran out of the house and Christopher followed. They drove around Clear Lake before she went to work at 4:00 PM. She later started freaking out after finding specks of blood on her hand. So, you know, the one thing I did want to talk about is, you know, her heroin addiction, the withdrawals. At one point, it did say that they had given her both morphine and methadone. And I just wonder, you know, was she kind of high when she was being interviewed? And, and how does that play? I think it can make a difference in how you are interviewed. Or if she's just going through withdrawals and is not on those drugs.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  Either way, you know, how does that affect the statements that she made? I think it could be a factor.

• 57:04Speaker 00

  So basically what it came down to Gibbs in large part, right? Is that the jury would have to compare the differences between her statement and the testimony of her husband. And let's face it, a lot of trials come down to this. Maybe it's not husband versus wife, but it could be the state's expert versus the defense's expert. Who does the jury believe is telling the truth? In closing arguments, defense attorney Mike DeGaren suggested that Christopher was solely responsible. He killed the victims while Christine hit.

• 57:44Speaker 00

  He forced her into the living area and held her hand on the gun handle as it fired. The defense once again referred to the alleged plea deal with Stanley, but the prosecution objected and the court sustained that objection. Prosecutor Rob Fryer said Christopher was not the only one to blame. He asked the jurors, could this horrible event have happened without Christine? He said, of course not. And, and it's a good point to make, right? Even though there are differing versions on who shot who and who pulled the trigger and, and all of that.

• 58:24Speaker 00

  The one version that everybody did kind of stick with was that the reason why they got into the house in the first place was because of Christine. Yeah. Now, her argument was that she didn't know that he was going to kill her. I think if you're a juror, maybe one question you're asking is if that's the truth, why are you putting a, a gun in your purse? Why do you even need it? It's a good point. On October 13th, 2008, Christine Pealea was found guilty of capital murder. She received an automatic life sentence. Christine avoided a potential death sentence because she was only 17 years old at the time of the murder.

• 59:10Speaker 00

  And you almost forget about that because of how brutal these murders were and what she is said to have done. Right? If she shot these two girls, which were reportedly her friends, and then beat Rachel to death as she was dying, that would be rough for anyone to do.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  But then you think about a 17 year old doing it. That's brutal. One juror revealed that he was among four who initially voted for acquittal, but his questions were answered during discussions. He noted, "There was a lot of contradiction or stories in the three interviews she gave to police." And there were, right? There's no doubt about it. She changed her stories multiple times.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  That's always a problem.

• 1:00:00Speaker 00

  And I think as a juror, you have to take that into consideration, right? If your third version is the truth, why wasn't that your first version?

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, I get it. You know, she can argue, "Well, I was going through heroin withdrawal, or I was on, uh, you know, methadone and morphine, so I wasn't myself." But why three times then?

• 1:00:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a question that has to be asked. The families of the victims told the Houston Chronicle that the verdict would allow them to move forward with their lives. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, Christine is now 40 years old. She's still incarcerated in Texas, and she's not eligible for parole until 2046.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  I mean, you say something interesting here. You know, the families of the victims, you know, were finally able to move forward with their lives. It took a while.

• 1:00:57Speaker 00

  It did.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  You know, and they had to relive this and go through this and, and I'm sure it wasn't easy. And, you know, they were robbed of what their, uh, family members might have done later in life.

• 1:01:13Speaker 00

  And just the opportunity to be with them.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  You know, that's, that's something you can never forget because once that's gone, it's gone. You can't get that back. It's never coming back. I mean, this is a case like, like many are. It's not one of those that's cut and dry, right? There is no... One piece of evidence that conclusively you would say just absolutely points to, well, it happened this way. So then you have to take all the evidence into account.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:47Speaker 00

  As I'm sure jurors did. I thought it was interesting that four of them voted to acquit right off the bat. And then slowly during discussions, some of the questions that they had were, they said, answered. And they eventually got to the guilty verdict. That just shows you right there. There was no slam dunk.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  No. I mean, I can see where you might at first seem sympathetic towards her. But as you learn more, then you kind of distance yourself from that.

• 1:02:20Speaker 00

  Well, and it's just, who do you believe more? Do you believe her and her three different stories? Or do you believe what the way that the evidence points? And do you believe Stanley?

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Speaker 00

  And his story?

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Speaker 00

  Because I think his story does line up a little more with the evidence, right? Four people shot, and it's all done by Christopher? I'm not saying it couldn't happen.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  It's just more unlikely that it would.

• 1:02:52Speaker 00

  I think it is. Be much easier to control four people if two people both had guns out. And then you look at some of the ballistics and all of that. Obviously, we don't get to hear or see all the evidence. But I think as a juror, I would be leaning towards, you know, Christine not being all that truthful in her statement. And the fact that you have to tell three different ones does not help me.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:20Speaker 00

  That's it for our episode on the Clear Lake murders. We got a couple of voicemails. Gibbs, you want to check those out?

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Let's hear them.

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  Hey, guys. This is Paul from Las Vegas, Nevada. Man, I love the podcast, but you guys pander to women so hard. You are some real bitches when it comes to that. But yeah, anyways, Team Gibby. Fuck you, Mike.

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  I'm not gonna lie, that made me laugh when I first heard it.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  It did.

• 1:03:52Speaker 00

  And I thought, okay, I could go one of two ways. I cannot put it on, but no, I'm going to because I feel like all of the voicemails that we have are complimentary. It's very rare that somebody calls in and, and says something even somewhat negative. Now that I get emails all the time with negative stuff.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  Sure you do.

• 1:04:15Speaker 00

  But I, I thought it was interesting because he said, I love the podcast.

• 1:04:20Speaker 00

  But let me tell you this and this, and then, oh, by the way, F you, Mike.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Well, hey, nothing wrong with someone wanting to give us their opinion.

• 1:04:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, we don't have to agree with it.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Maybe you'll be out in Vegas and stop by.

• 1:04:33Speaker 00

  Maybe. Yeah. Come see us.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:36Speaker 03

  Hey guys, this is Dana Schwartz from Houston, Texas. Um, I just wanted to let you guys know that I am four and a half years sober, actually this month. And true crime all the time on sound and true crime all the time. Has actually really helped me with my sobriety and uh, just thought you guys should know, uh, keep your own time ticking. Keep your head on a swivel and I'm both y'all's team. I put both y'all in my pocket. Y'all take care now. For the love.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  He said we're in his pocket?

• 1:05:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. He said he would put both of us in there.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Oh, put both of us in the pocket.

• 1:05:18Speaker 00

  Had to be two different pockets because I'm not going in the same pocket with you.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  No, no way.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  But seriously, what I will say is congrats, man. That is awesome. You know, anytime I think, you know, someone can say, I've been sober for X.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:34Speaker 00

  That's a milestone. And then it becomes another milestone when you say that it's longer, right? However, you celebrate it in months, six months, years, at some point, you know, it's probably years, but congrats to you, man, because I think it's a huge achievement.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's such a struggle and you know, to get that, get through that day by day.

• 1:05:57Speaker 00

  It is. And it never goes away.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Keep fighting.

• 1:06:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. Props to you, man. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike. And Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.