Samuel Hochstetler

18-year-old Amish teenager Samuel Hochstetler was accused of killing 28-year-old Rosanna Kinsinger in an Amish community near Rutland, Ohio. Rosanna was found dead in her trailer on March 13, 2025, after being last seen the previous day. Her death was ruled positional asphyxia, and investigators determined she had been raped and murdered. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Samuel Hochstetler. This case became complicated by questions about Hochstetler’s understanding of his Miranda rights. His attorneys argued that his Amish upbringing, limited formal education, and language barriers prevented him from understanding the consequences of speaking with investigators. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 1:18Speaker 01

  525?

• 1:19Speaker 00

  Of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

• 1:25Speaker 01

  I'm doing good. How about you?

• 1:27Speaker 00

  I'm doing great, man. Having a good week. We just talked on our, well, would have been last week by the time this one comes out.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  True.

• 1:36Speaker 00

  But we talked about on our Patreon, I've just been in a YouTube phase. I found a new channel, and once I find a new channel, man, there's so much to binge. I get in the YouTube mindset.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  You're a YouTuber.

• 1:50Speaker 00

  I like it.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like it. You do. So I kind of like MeTube, you know?

• 1:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  I, you know, I don't really, or the iTunes. I don't really do a lot of YouTube.

• 2:04Speaker 00

  There's a lot of discount things that you subscribe to.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, sometimes I'll do WeTube. It just depends.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. All right, buddy, you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time? Uh, we're, this is a case from our home state of Ohio.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  It is.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  We're talking about Samuel Hoshdettler. He's an Amish teenager who was recently sentenced to 25 years to life for aggravated murder. Prosecutors argued that he killed Rosanna Kinzinger during a non-consensual sexual encounter, while his defense argued that her death was accidental. 28-year-old Rosanna Kinzinger lived in an Amish, Amish?

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Community near Rutland, Ohio. Our state has one of the largest Amish populations in the world.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  It do. A lot of people like to go vacation there.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. And what you call Amish country?

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, up there and get some of those meat pies and, and, you know, all those handmade things that they make.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08Speaker 00

  They're big on baskets.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Baskets, blankets.

• 3:11Speaker 00

  All kinds of different things.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  And it might be, you know, strange for people from other parts of the country or, you know, people outside of this country. But it's not unusual to be driving down the road and see someone, an Amish person, driving a horse and buggy.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Oh, I know.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  They may, traffic may be piled up for a mile.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:35Speaker 00

  Behind them.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  You can't get around it. You're just going to have to wait.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a few up in my neck of the woods, you know, because I'm out in the.

• 3:42Speaker 00

  More so up towards you.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  Than where I am. I don't see a lot of that here, but you travel up north and then more to the, like, the center of the state. There's a lot more communities.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Always feel bad when I zoom past them, you know, doing 70, 80 miles an hour, you know?

• 4:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, you know, when you flipping the bird, I think that's rude. I don't think there's any call for that.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Find it funny when their hat blows off, you know?

• 4:09Speaker 00

  Because of your jet engine?

• 4:11Speaker 01

  My jet engine, yes.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  In your traverse?

• 4:15Speaker 00

  You act like you got a Hellcat or something?

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  So this community consisted of about 10 families who lived and worked on a farm operated by a man named Moses Troyer. Rosanna had her own trailer. So not a big community if you're just talking about 10 families.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Sources reported that she had moved to the area from Missouri to be a school teacher. She was also making soap and other products from goat's milk.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  That's good soap right there from goat's milk.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  It is, and it's kind of like what you were talking about, right? The Amish make a ton of different things.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  They do.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  Some of it is sought after, and people drive to Amish country to, to purchase some of those things. Rosanna was last seen alive on March 12, 2025. At the time, she was helping her friends build a greenhouse. Her friends would later report that 18-year-old Samuel Hoshdettler, who worked at the community sawmill, was flirting with Rosanna.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  The old sawmills. Remember those days? Probably not.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  I don't. I don't think I'm old enough for that. I don't even know if you are that much to have worked in a sawmill.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Well, you know, so I had some buddies, a family, great people. They had a bunch of kids, Waltons, and they operate this sawmill. And, you know, I'd go down there and hang out with them, and we cut some, cut some logs and, you know, get some boards out of it, you know? And called it a day, you know? And it was a good family. Always spent the night, they were always big about saying goodnight to you. It was really, really strange, but.

• 5:53Speaker 00

  They sound wonderful.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Almost too good to be true.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Almost.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  Almost like a television script.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Kind of sounds like it, you know?

• 6:00Speaker 00

  Like an idyllic family.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  I, I don't know how much you know about the Amish. I don't know anyone who's Amish or anything like that. What I do remember from my childhood was a movie called Witness. Did you ever see that with Harrison Ford?

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  That's a great movie.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  And the girl from Top Gun.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Kelly.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  McGinnis.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  McGillis?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  I think McGillis.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  McGillis, yeah, one of those. That is a great movie.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  It was.

• 6:31Speaker 00

  And I remember watching it when I was young, probably too young.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:36Speaker 00

  To be watching that movie. I don't remember what it was rated. The rating system back then was a little strange.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  It was.

• 6:42Speaker 00

  It was like, okay. But anyway, so, you know, what I know of the Amish community really comes from movies or television shows or documentaries or things like that. It's kind of hard to know much about that type of community unless you're in it.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  I mean, they're obviously pretty quiet, right? They're, they're not advertising what they do and how they operate. I mean, but you learn things from like seeing that show.

• 7:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Or there were some reality TV at one point with the Amish family, which was strange in its own, that they even allowed that to happen.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  But then you have one where they leave and go out and then come back.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, around that 16-year-old timeframe, right? They get the chance to go and get crazy and either stick with it or come back and it's out of your system. I forget, they have a special name for it.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  I'm sure they do. Are you going to remember it?

• 7:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  I'm sure you are not.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  So Rosanna and Samuel, they weren't courting, and they also didn't have any sort of casual relationship with each other. Does sound like he was flirting with her.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  The following day, March 13, a group of neighbors went looking for Rosanna after they realized no one had seen her all day. And I think, you know, is that going to be more evident in this very small community consisting of 10 families? And I would argue, yeah, absolutely.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree with you.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  It's, you know, a lot of the cases that we talk about, people are thought to, you know, something is wrong because a loved one calls, can't get a hold of them or something like that. But it's not because they live in this very small community, and they're probably seen every day, right, by a bunch of different people. So this group goes looking for her. They saw that the back door to her trailer was left open. Moses Troyer was the one who entered the trailer, and he found Rosanna's body in the bed. She was found nude, face down, and bent over the bed. Her goat was inside near her body.

• 8:59Speaker 00

  Authorities believe the animal just kind of wandered inside the trailer through the open back door.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  So, you know, we talk a lot about animals, you know, especially dogs. Dogs are thought to be extremely loyal. And in many stories, they will sit by their, their owner.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:21Speaker 00

  Even while that person is dead, uh, there's some really tragic, but also kind of heartwarming stories like that. But it's not just dogs, right? There are other animals who, you know, are loyal and, and maybe that's what we're talking about here. After finding the body, the group stood outside and discussed who they should call. Moses Troyer called 911. They also decided to send a group to Rosanna's parents' home two miles away.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Good decisions.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, all, all good decisions, but you know, if you're Amish, do you have to have a discussion about some of these things? First of all, does everybody have a phone? Because I know sometimes Amish people don't.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  No, I don't think, most of them, I think they have to go to a place where there is a phone.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. I, I can't imagine many Amish people have cell phones, right? I mean, those are some of the things that they just don't have.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:22Speaker 00

  But, um, somehow he called 911. Maybe he did have to go, you know, somewhere and call. We don't know. But part of this group that was sent to Rosanna's parents' home was Samuel Hochstetler. He was the one to break the news to Rosanna's parents.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Which is really weird when you realize he was involved.

• 10:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. Cause this is different, right? We, we're not holding back who the perpetrator is in this one. We sometimes do. The Meigs County Coroner's Office immediately declared Rosanna's death suspicious. Her body was taken to the coroner's office for an autopsy, but the preliminary results were inconclusive. And I don't know how you couldn't rule that death suspicious. I, I, I don't need to be a coroner to say, hey, there's something not right about this.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  You know, she's found nude.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 11:21Speaker 00

  Face down, bent over the bed.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Could somebody have had a heart attack? Yeah, maybe. This is a very young person though. So it's, it's suspicious to me all day long. Ultimately, her cause of death was determined to be positional asphyxia. And Vescar has determined Rosanna had been raped and murdered. And we've talked about asphyxia a lot of times in different episodes. I don't think I've ever heard the term positional asphyxia.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Nor have I.

• 11:57Speaker 00

  Really? Through all your Mensa training, you're not aware of this?

• 12:01Speaker 01

  I'm not aware of this and this application. No.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  All right. Gotcha. So a devastating loss, right?

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  For the community in the aftermath, they came together to support Rosanna's parents. And that's something that you, you often see.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  And, you know, it can be amazing. It can be very heartwarming to see all these people come together and kind of rally around a grieving family. Now, this is a close knit community, so you would expect that, but it happens a lot of times in other situations. Sometimes, uh, including people who didn't even know the victim. And that's always, you know, kind of amazing to me.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I think that's, you know, an awesome thing that human nature does, right? I mean, that they find a reason to come together, help people out. Like you said, even if they don't know, they can understand how those people might feel.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  And they want to try to do something to help that out.

• 13:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. Whether they, they're volunteering for the search or in this case, um, you know, her body does, was discovered pretty quickly.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  And they're just maybe there for their candlelight vigil, or they're there to support the family or whatever it is. It's always amazing to me. Samuel Hochstetler volunteered to go to their farm to help with chores and prepare the barn for Rosanna's funeral. The Kinzingers welcomed him as a guest in their home for the entire weekend.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  How crazy is that though? When you think about, eventually they're going to find out.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  That to them, it's, it's like letting the devil into their life, their house, right? I mean, this is a guy that took their daughter's life.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. But like you said, they don't know at the time.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  And my first thought is they, they probably couldn't even imagine that it was someone within the community.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Why would you?

• 14:08Speaker 00

  They had to have believed this was a stranger, somebody from the outside, because nobody within their community would have done this. And so they're treating everybody as, as though, um, you know, they're not a suspect, probably the family is. He's also being very helpful.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:27Speaker 00

  Right? He notified them about the death. He's offering to, to do chores and help out around their farm.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  And don't forget, he's also a pretty young guy, right? 18?

• 14:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Over the following weeks, detectives followed up on tips, leads and rumors. They ultimately identified Samuel as a person of interest. And I could see how that could happen. Number one, we are talking about probably a pretty limited pool here of people who knew her. He was thought to have been flirting with her. Okay. That, those are the types of things that are probably going to land you on the person of interest list.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  Right? You're not technically the boyfriend or the ex, but if you were flirting with her and people knew it or saw it, and that comes to the attention of the police, all right, they're going to want to maybe put a little bit of extra emphasis on you.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. They're going to take a dive into that.

• 15:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, definitely. Samuel was detained for an interview on May 5th, 2025. During this recorded interview, Samuel admitted to killing Rosanna, but he claimed it was an accident. He said he knocked on Rosanna's door and she welcomed him inside. He admitted to placing a blanket over her head while he had sex with her. And afterward, realizing she was dead.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:00Speaker 00

  Hmm. So number one, he admitted this very quickly.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  This wasn't a holdout situation, which is what we see most often, right? People deny, deny, deny. They change their story. They're confronted with evidence. And then, and maybe ultimately they confess. Now, he's admitting to being there. He's admitting to having sex with her, but he's saying that he didn't intentionally kill her.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:34Speaker 00

  But what's the strange part here? The fact that they're having sex? No, let's face it. A lot of people do. I mean.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 16:41Speaker 00

  I don't know how that's looked upon in the Amish, probably not favorably, I'm assuming.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Probably not if you're not married, you know?

• 16:49Speaker 00

  But in this scenario, not to get too graphic, but while they're having sex, he's placing a blanket over her head?

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Why is that? Does he not want to see her? Is it, is it something that he feels like it's the right thing to do? Because they're not married, so if we don't, if we don't look at each other.

• 17:09Speaker 00

  If we can't see each other, it's okay. I.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  But she's not making any vocal.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  Protests or anything like that? It just seems very strange.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Right? And I think police thought it was as well because they arrested him. They charged him with murder. Meigs County Sheriff Scott Fitch said in a news release announcing the charges, "This case was such a tragedy to those who knew Rosanna. She was a beloved individual in her community. Detectives have worked around the clock, searching for answers and were able to get those answers. Hopefully this investigation helps bring some closure to the victim's family. And on behalf of the sheriff's office, we offer our deepest condolences." Well, let's talk about closure, right? Some people think that's a terrible word. There really is no closure.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  And I get that, but how can this really change a lot at this point in time? Yeah, we know who was involved, but he's saying it was an accident. Prosecutors, investigators are saying it was a murder. So there's not a lot of like real definitive closure here.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:24Speaker 00

  Cause we're still in flux.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Well, sure. Yeah.

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• 20:24Speaker 00

  Speaking with reporters with WASAZ, community member Moses Troyer explained that Samuel came from an Amish community in Kentucky and had been living with him for the past few months. Okay, I think if you're this Moses Troyer guy, you're probably going to feel a little bad about that.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  I think there's some guilt that's going to sit in a little bit, like should I have not allowed him to join our community and...

• 20:53Speaker 00

  Right. Yeah. No, there's no way he could have known that that's what was going to happen. But still, I think that that guilt is going to set in. There's just no way around it. Troyer said it was scary when Rosanna died in March, and disturbing to think that for weeks, he'd been living with the person who was charged with her murder. He wished he could ask Samuel why.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  And again, I think a lot of scary things here, right? He was caught weeks after the murder. What happened in in those few weeks, he stayed at her parents' house.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, eating dinner with them.

• 21:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was treated like a guest. Yeah, he was helping out around the farm and things like that. But then he's also living with this guy who had seemingly no idea that, you know, he was involved in this in any way. I think when all of this comes out, this admission by him, even though he didn't admit to killing her,

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  it's got to be completely shocking to everybody. Number one, he's a member of the community.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  And I think that's shocking for them probably on its own. And then, number two, this idea that this was an accidental death while the two of them were having a sexual encounter, that's got to be shocking in an Amish community, I would think as well.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I get it, you know, I'm trying to think it, think about it from his point of view. You know, he's saying, look, I did something, we did something taboo in the community. It was an accident. But why would you not want to come clean when the police are involved? Why would you continue the charade up to that point? You know, that's where I have a problem believing.

• 22:43Speaker 00

  Well, and I always think that, right? If something really is an accident, I get it, people might get scared, but you would think most people would come forward.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 00

  Call the police and say, this happened.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:00Speaker 00

  You know, it was an accident. You're getting out in front of it that way.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 23:05Speaker 00

  And if you're telling the truth, hopefully it goes your way. Now, you may not want to do that if you're not telling the truth.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 23:14Speaker 00

  And that's what I always believe. It's like the, it's an accident, or here's what happened. When it doesn't fit the the facts really all that much, that just comes about after somebody's caught.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:27Speaker 00

  You know, and I tend not to believe it. And I think that most people don't believe it either. On May 22, 2025, Samuel was indicted on charges of aggravated murder, two counts of murder, rape, two counts of kidnapping, and strangulation. The grand jury also returned specifications of sexual motivation and sexually violent predator.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  So, I mean, about as serious of charges as you can get.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 24:01Speaker 00

  In the fall of 2025, a judge heard arguments about whether Samuel's recorded confession should be allowed at trial. His attorneys argued he didn't understand his Miranda rights. Defense attorney Kirk McVeigh noted that Samuel had limited formal education, and his primary language is Pennsylvania Dutch. He was confused about his constitutional rights when he confessed to killing Rosanna during what he described as a consensual sexual encounter. Samuel's Amish upbringing and language barriers prevented him from fully grasping the legal implications of waiving his rights.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  Well, that can actually happen, because if I remember right, I think the Amish, they quit sending their kids to any type of schooling, like 12 or something like that? And then their job is to work in the farm, or, you know, whatever trade is to, you do whatever family trade there is.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  And that could be in some communities. I'm sure it differs, right?

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  In different communities. My thinking is, okay, formal education is one thing. I don't remember learning about Miranda rights in high school.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  My thought is, if you're not getting to watch like television shows and movies, you may have no idea what Miranda rights are. I mean, most of us learned about that probably first in on television or in movies.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Or like your case, when you got arrested.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  You know, that time, you're like, oh.

• 25:41Speaker 00

  That's what that is?

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:42Speaker 00

  But you, we do learn a lot, right, from, or did.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  You know, nowadays, people learn a lot from social media, TikTok, places like that. If you don't watch any of that, if you're not allowed to, if it's kind of against your religion, and you don't even own a television, let alone have cable or

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Electric.

• 26:04Speaker 00

  Electric or whatever, you may not know some of those things, because you've never been arrested. You've never been, you know, exposed to that. Now, the the language thing, I don't know. I don't know. Pennsylvania Dutch, I get it. But it seemed like he spoke pretty, pretty good English to me, so. But I understand, you know, the defense wanting to make those arguments. The confession came after he was brought in for DNA collection. During questioning, he initially denied being inside Rosanna's trailer, but eventually admitted to the killing

• 26:45Speaker 00

  after being read his rights twice. So it sounds like they went above and beyond. They didn't read them just once, they read them twice.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  I also think he had to know. Let's just say, there's a language barrier, and say, maybe you don't know what Miranda rights are, but you still know what's right and wrong, right? I mean, he had to know what was right and what was wrong.

• 27:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, but what's that got to do with Miranda rights?

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Well, that's true.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  Because, yeah, with Miranda, we're really talking about, hey, you don't have to talk. You have the right to have an attorney present. You have the right to stop answering questions at any time. I get what you're saying. Did he understand right from wrong? I'm sure he did. But also, you know, he's able to give this confession without, I'm assuming, a translator.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 00

  I think the English is there, but...

• 27:40Speaker 00

  He described entering Rosanna's trailer. She went to the bedroom, laid down and closed her eyes. He covered her head with a blanket. He also said he didn't understand the word sex and referred to the act as breeding. Okay. And maybe that's, you know, a religious angle. They only have sex, as we would call it, for the act of procreation. I know that that is thought of in some circles. But again, how much of this is real? This, it's no different than any other

• 28:19Speaker 00

  case, right? The fact that he's Amish doesn't change that fact. It's how much of this is real? And how much of this is being said or a way to kind of cover his ass?

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  Is my thought.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, let me, I'm gonna say it this way. I'm gonna say this happened because of being Amish.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and some of that's just gonna be up to the jury at some point to try to figure out, right? Who's telling the truth? Who's lying? How much of this is the truth? Those types of things. Although Samuel claimed Rosanna didn't resist or say no. Prosecutors argued the autopsy evidence contradicted his account and showed that the sex was non-consensual. I mean, even his story, to me, sounds very strange, right? She laid down on the bed and

• 29:18Speaker 00

  closed her eyes. So he walks up behind her and puts the blanket over her head and what? Just begins having sex with her?

• 29:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:32Speaker 00

  So the first thing that goes through my mind is, I mean, is she already naked? She has to be, right? When, when she goes down to lay on the bed, face first?

• 29:42Speaker 01

  If you believe what he's saying. I mean, maybe he, maybe somehow he does something to drug her, takes her clothes off, lays her down like that.

• 29:54Speaker 00

  Oh, I think.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  And feels guilty.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Covers her head so he doesn't have to look at her eyes.

• 29:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of things that really happen. I'm talking about his version.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 00

  And does it make sense? And, and to me, it just, it doesn't.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Doesn't pass that test.

• 30:11Speaker 00

  I'm not saying that she couldn't have wanted to engage with him in that manner. It just, from his story and the autopsy, does not seem as though that's the way this went down.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Yes, it's not adding up.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  No, not, not to me at all. A detective testified that Samuel understood his rights. During the interview, he asked clarifying questions and seemed to comprehend the proceedings. He appeared relieved after confessing, and his demeanor suggested that he wanted to tell the truth. And that's kind of what I was talking about earlier, right? Obviously, your English is good enough. You're asking clarifying questions. You're having a conversation with the detectives. It's not like they had a translator in there. So I think that the English is not your first

• 31:05Speaker 00

  language argument is a little tough. Now, the formal, formal education and, and the, the lack of understanding the Miranda rights through like television or social media, I think you could make that argument.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, you could.

• 31:25Speaker 00

  Probably much easier than you could be, than you could, English isn't your, your first language. Samuel initially suggested another man named Homer might have been involved and then admitted to the crime himself.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  I mean, when you go that route, again, it's not helping your case, right?

• 31:46Speaker 00

  No.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  If you're trying to mix in somebody else, well, Homer was here too. And, you know, Homer was the one that actually did this and that and.

• 31:55Speaker 00

  Well, you're saying two, as though he implicated himself in the beginning.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:00Speaker 00

  I don't think he did. I think he's saying,

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Homer.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  Hey, this Homer guy might have been involved.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  But then at some point, he says, well, this was a sexual encounter and then an accident occurred. A little less likely to believe that when you just tried to blame it on some other guy.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  So, yeah. I mean, that's just another thing, right? That a jury would have to look at. The prosecutor noted that Samuel was able to articulate his thoughts and participate in complex discussions about Amish dating practices and religious beliefs. He explained Amish courtship to detectives. He described how potential couples have to go through their parents and meet with family present. Doors must remain open during visits because of temptation. He also said he didn't understand what rape meant, leading detectives to use his term for

• 33:00Speaker 00

  sexual activity when discussing the incident. And again, I go back to the same argument I made before. Is it inconceivable that he doesn't understand what that word means? And I would argue no. You know, if you're not taught that in school, your parents probably, I'm sure, are not talking about it.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:22Speaker 00

  Have never brought that word up. And you haven't watched movies or television shows. Where would that word ever come up?

• 33:32Speaker 01

  That's true. Yeah, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know about it.

• 33:34Speaker 00

  But to me, that doesn't change the fact that he would have known that it wouldn't be right to force himself on some way. Now, even if he doesn't know what the word is.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  The action he knows is not.

• 33:50Speaker 00

  He has to.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 00

  He has to know because he's describing all of these religious beliefs and they're so far removed from that. You're not even supposed to be behind closed doors.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  So obviously, that part would go far beyond anything. So even though you might not know the word for it, you have to know it's wrong.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:17Speaker 00

  If I'm a juror, all of these things are just swimming, right? In my brain, and I'm thinking, okay, this doesn't make sense. This doesn't make sense. You know, I get it. There's always a defense. Some of them make a lot more sense than others.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 34:34Speaker 00

  But let's face it, sometimes defense attorneys have a lot more to work with than other.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:41Speaker 00

  It seems like the less they have to work with, the more outlandish they have to.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  It's like they're pulling out of their, uh.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  Arse. Yeah, absolutely. Because they got nowhere else to pull it out from.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  In January 2026, prosecutors asked the judge to reconsider her ruling suppressing Samuel's incriminating statements in a written decision following the fall hearing. Judge Linda Warner ruled that statements Samuel made would be inadmissible because he didn't understand his rights. And I'm looking at that as a pretty big blow to the prosecution.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it definitely hurts their case.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. So when you think about a defense or, you know, the defense, making a motion, well, they were right to, right? Because it worked out for them. I didn't fully believe it. I still don't believe it, that that was the case, but the judge ruled that, you know, his statements would be inadmissible. According to the ruling, deputies spoke to Samuel during and after transport to the sheriff's office about Rosanna's death, his relationship to her, and his thoughts on what happened. These circumstances did not amount to a custodial

• 36:03Speaker 00

  interrogation, but officers failed to ensure he understood what was going on when they read his Miranda rights. And I think I've talked about it before, but, you know, I do watch a lot of body cam videos, police body cam videos on YouTube. And, you know, when police decide to actually read the Miranda rights, it's pretty interesting. You know, they can talk to people about a lot of different things.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:35Speaker 00

  Without reading Miranda. If they're not talking about the crime at all, Miranda doesn't mean anything.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 00

  But there are times when the conversation kind of veers that way and they haven't read Miranda. Things get a little gray. So.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Dicey.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, a lot of times, some of the people that review these body cams are often police officers or ex-police officers. And they said, you know, why not just read it upfront? You know, if you're putting somebody in handcuffs.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:09Speaker 00

  Just read it. That way, no matter what happens. Now, this is a little different situation. They're saying they read or gave him his Miranda rights, but they didn't ensure that he fully understood them.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  That could be a difficult thing to ascertain, right?

• 37:29Speaker 00

  It can be, because a lot of times you're reading them and you're asking a question.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  Do you understand the rights that I've just read? And if someone says yes, okay.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Are you supposed to stop him halfway into?

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Are you sure?

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, are you sure? Because you're telling me right now that you did this and this. Are you sure you understand your rights? I mean, that's going to get them to stop, maybe.

• 37:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 37:56Speaker 00

  Well, obviously, if someone says no, then you've got to take a different tact. But if they say yes, do you have to go the extra mile? Now, does it change because you know they're Amish? And I think that might be what they're saying here.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:12Speaker 00

  If this was a person who wasn't Amish, had access to television and all that, maybe they don't have to worry about it.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:23Speaker 00

  But this person was Amish. They knew he was Amish. And maybe the judge is saying, you didn't do enough.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, you should have did a little bit more on this one, guys.

• 38:32Speaker 00

  That's, that's what I'm taking from it.

• 38:36Speaker 00

  Judge Warner wrote, "In our Amish community, Amish typically do not watch television, read secular or English materials, have dealings with government officials, the criminal justice system, or attorneys, lawyers." This puts this defendant in a somewhat different position than the average English suspect.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  It's a good way to look at it, because it does.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  And I don't think she's wrong, right? At all. I don't think the judge is wrong. But I do think, well, you are really putting police in a tough spot there.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:15Speaker 00

  If they ask the person, "Do you understand the rights?" And they say, "Yeah." And again, I don't know the exact, how the exact conversation went down, but I'm assuming at some point, he must have said he did understand them.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  But maybe not really.

• 39:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, what else are they supposed to do?

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:35Speaker 00

  You know, how, to what length are they supposed to go to?

• 39:38Speaker 01

  Well, that's true. I mean, how are they supposed to know? He said yes, so do I not take his yes as a, you know, that he does, and I have to revisit it to make sure?

• 39:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's a tough spot, right? And I think it's part of what makes this case stand out to people. It fascinates people because you have a person who's part of a community that a lot of us know very little about and have little to no experience with. So it's harder for us to put ourselves in their position because we've never been, you know, in anything like that. She went on to say that Samuel is proficient in English, but failed to grasp concepts such as court of law and attorney, which are critical to understanding Miranda rights. And that's actually something I didn't take into account.

• 40:33Speaker 00

  You know, part of that, as we talked about, right, is, you know, this can be used against you in a court of law.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:42Speaker 00

  Okay. Well, if you don't know what a court of law is, then does it, do you really understand it? And then you have the right to an attorney. If you don't fully grasp the concept of what an attorney is, okay.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  It's a problem.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  I guess. But I'm still back to that point. If somebody says they understand, what do you do as a police officer?

• 41:02Speaker 01

  I get it. I mean, there's a lot of people proficient in English, right? I'm proficient in English.

• 41:06Speaker 00

  Oh, very.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  I knew, you know, I know you doubt that sometimes, and I just say.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  But, you know, the judge is saying this, right? Samuel is proficient in English, but his defense attorney tried to make a big deal out of it being his second language.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:23Speaker 00

  Officers apparently tried to explain these concepts to him by telling Samuel that the right to an attorney was akin to having the church bishop go forward with him in front of the church and God to ask for and anticipate receiving forgiveness.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  That's the same.

• 41:45Speaker 00

  That seems like a strange analogy to me, but the judge said, "Thus, the defendant's testimony that he believed confession would lead to judicial forgiveness suggests he fundamentally misunderstood that his statements would be used against him in an adversarial proceeding." So the more that comes out, the more you kind of understand the judge's take on this.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:17Speaker 00

  Now, you find out that, you know, the police told him that it was similar to having the bishop go forward with him when he asked for forgiveness. Does it make sense that maybe he thought he would be forgiven?

• 42:33Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  Maybe, maybe not, but you can understand where the judge is coming from.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  In a motion urging the judge to reconsider. The prosecution argued that because the court found Samuel was not in custody at the time of the interview, reading his Miranda rights was unnecessary. And again, I, this is where the Miranda gets very strange to me.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:03Speaker 00

  You know, you're detained, you're not detained, you're in custody, you're not in custody, you're asking questions, but you're not under arrest. It's a very kind of, I don't want to say it's gray, because it does seem to be pretty black and white, but I think there's confusion about it sometimes.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  I'm confused by it.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, that doesn't surprise me. You're confused by a lot of things.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 43:29Speaker 00

  No, but to be honest with you, I am too.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 00

  You know, neither one of us are legal scholars.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  Not anymore.

• 43:36Speaker 00

  No matter what you say, you're not a legal scholar.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Not ever since that diploma, piece of paper thing I got from internet fell off my wall.

• 43:44Speaker 00

  Was struck down.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:46Speaker 00

  As not being worth the paper it was written on.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  On July 24th, 2026, now 19-year-old Samuel Hochstetler pleaded guilty to aggravated murder in connection with the death of Rosanna Kinzinger. And one of the reasons why I've found this case is so fascinating, number one, it's from Ohio.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 44:11Speaker 00

  Not that far from us. But number two, it's very, very current.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:15Speaker 00

  It's an extremely current case. With his guilty plea, he admitted that he purposely caused Rosanna's death while committing rape.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:27Speaker 00

  So full circle, right? Really, he's come full circle.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:32Speaker 00

  Well, I won't say full circle. He initially said, you know, this was consensual, it was accidental, because I put the blanket or whatever it was over her head.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  To now, I killed her while raping her. And, you know, at this point, he obviously knows what all of those different things mean, if he didn't really know them before.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  Because he's had a lot of time with his attorney, a lot of counsel, and they must have advised him that, hey, you're better off pleading guilty, and this is exactly what all this means. And he said, "Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do." It was said that he made a plea deal just days before his trial, which was scheduled to start on July 27.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  That's just around the corner there.

• 45:26Speaker 00

  Around the corner? Or like about three weeks ago, as we sit here and record?

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  It's not around the corner, but.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  It was behind, around the corner.

• 45:35Speaker 00

  I don't know what around the corner means.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  It was back down the alley.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  You use that all the time in relation to time, around the corner.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:44Speaker 00

  To me, that's like a more of a distance thing.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  But you seem to use it a lot with time.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  That was like back two blocks ago and to the left.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  And turn left, and that's where it was. But it, you know, it's, it's such a fascinating story.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:02Speaker 00

  And it's not over, but just to kind of recap, because you have this Amish guy who I think played it up that, or at least his defense team did, you know, this guy doesn't know anything. He barely speaks English, right? English is his second language. He doesn't understand anything you're telling him. Well, I think he did.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 00

  And I think he knew what he did was wrong. I think he tried to get out from under it by confessing to some things, but not the murder.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:39Speaker 00

  And making it seem as though this was more consensual, and then there was an accident.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Trying to manipulate the situation.

• 46:46Speaker 00

  And minimize his role.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  In it. But at a certain point, I think he realized his attorneys must have told him, "Hey, buddy, you ain't getting out of this."

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  So your best course of action is probably going to be to plead guilty, and that's exactly what he did. The prosecutor's office moved to dismiss additional charges and specifications as a result of the plea. And I'm sure that came. With his defense attorney's recommendation.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:19Speaker 00

  You can either move forward trial and they're going to go after you for all of these things.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  Or you can plead guilty and they're going to drop a bunch of different things. Samuel will serve 25 years to life in prison and will have to register as a tier three sex offender, the most severe classification in Ohio. And let's face it, 25 years to life, it's, it's not a slap on the wrist. That's a very serious sentence. My thought is though, without the plea agreement and without them dropping the other charges, this could have been life.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, just straight life.

• 47:58Speaker 00

  With no parole.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:00Speaker 00

  For all I know. In court prosecutor, James Stanley described how Rosanna went missing on March 12th, 2025. Friends testified that she didn't particularly like Samuel. The defendant and Rosanna were not courting. They weren't dating. They weren't together. They were not seeing each other. They were not engaged in a casual sexual relationship. Those who last saw the pair said they saw Samuel acting in a manner that was showing off toward Rosanna or attempting to flirt with her. After her body was found, Samuel took it upon himself to be the one to tell Rosanna's father that Rosanna had died.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  And that's so strange.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  It's really strange.

• 48:48Speaker 00

  It's not like somebody said, hey, Samuel, can you do this for us? He took it upon himself to be the one to go tell them.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Was that out of guilt or was that out of, uh, he was just thought that high of himself?

• 49:02Speaker 00

  Or some morbid thing? I don't know. The prosecutor said his next actions were cruel. According to Stanley, the state thinks that aside from raping and murdering Rosanna, perhaps the most cruel thing that he did happened next. When he volunteered to go to the Kinzinger farm to help them with their chores and to prepare the barn for the funeral. He not only helped, but he was welcomed, as we said, as a guest in their home.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:34Speaker 00

  And he wasn't just a guest during the day. He was a guest during the night and he spent the next Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday night there after he killed Rosanna.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  He, he's the one that killed her, yet he's with the mom and dad when they're grieving. And that's just messed up.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Right? Cause everything that they went through, that private moment of.

• 49:59Speaker 00

  He was there.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  He was there. So can you ever get that back?

• 50:03Speaker 00

  No, and you're never going to forget it either.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:07Speaker 00

  Rosanna's parents and siblings had no idea that they had welcomed her murderer into their home. And he was right there with them the entire time. They mourned her loss. And like you said, it's, I mean, that's a very vulnerable time.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:27Speaker 00

  And who do you want around you, right? Close family, friends. You certainly don't want to learn later on that you shared those experiences with the person who murdered your daughter.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:45Speaker 00

  That's like adding insult to injury somehow. Prosecutors believe the encounter between Rosanna and Samuel was non-consensual. According to Stanley, we believe the evidence would show that the defendant either held her face in the blankets or covered her face with the blankets with such force that he dislodged her lower dentures.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 51:10Speaker 00

  He also pressed on her torso and she could not breathe. The defense agreed that Samuel killed Rosanna, but said her death was a result of his lack of experience. And that is a very strange phrase to use.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  I think so too.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  His attorney said, in speaking with him, he has a great amount of remorse and sorrow. But what took place on March 12th, 2025 was never his intention. So, I mean, what wasn't his intention? To rape this woman or for her to die during the course of the rape?

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 00

  Either way.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  It's not great.

• 51:54Speaker 00

  If you kill a person during the commission of a crime.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  Now, I, I get it. That could be a difference between first degree and second degree and, and things like that. But the fact that you didn't intend to do it, even if that was the case, and I'm not saying that was the case, doesn't excuse it, right? But let's go back to this statement made by the defense. Her death was a result of his lack of experience. His lack of experience in what?

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Sex.

• 52:28Speaker 00

  Sex. It, it wasn't consensual sex.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  So his lack of experience in rape? I'm, I'm very confused by this statement.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Like they're saying like, don't blame him because he didn't know what he did would cause.

• 52:43Speaker 00

  Her to die?

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  I'm telling you, man, if I'm a juror, I'm not buying that statement at all. Samuel also expressed remorse while speaking in court, saying, I'm sorry for everything I did. I wish I could go back to those days and make a different life. I don't know how to fully express how sorry I am for all this. Now, some of that I think is probably true. I think people are sorry for what they did, but it's because of what the position they're in.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're caught now.

• 53:14Speaker 00

  They're caught. They know they're going to spend a very long time in prison, if not the, the rest of their life. So there is a lot of sorrow.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  But is it, but is it for the victim? Or is it for their situation? And I often tend to think it's for their situation.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  So do I.

• 53:32Speaker 00

  I really do. Prosecutor James Stanley said in court that he believed the state's case was strong. But part of their decision to offer a plea deal was because of the ruling regarding the confession. He said, the state is hedging its bets as far as what could possibly happen at trial. That's why we're making this offer for him to plead guilty. And I understand that. I mean, they don't have the confession anymore.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Right. It was tossed.

• 54:02Speaker 00

  Right. It can't be used. I think that that's a, a probably a reason why you would make a, a plea deal. Megs County Sheriff Scott Fitch said in a news release after the guilty plea, while no court outcome can erase the loss experienced by the victim's family and loved ones, we hope today's guilty plea provides them with a measure of justice and brings them one step closer to healing. And as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, I think ultimately it's really only Samuel Hoshdeller who knows exactly what happened on March 12th, 2025.

• 54:45Speaker 00

  Prosecutors argued that the crime was sexually motivated in that Rosanna was asphyxiated as she was raped, while Samuel and his defense claimed it was an accident. But I just don't know. I try to, in these cases, I try to put myself in the, in the position of a juror. And I get it. We don't have every fact. We don't have every piece of testimony, every piece of evidence. But from what we do know, I would have a very hard time siding with the defense.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:19Speaker 00

  In any kind of accidental scenario. I, I just don't understand it. This was not a consensual sexual encounter.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 55:32Speaker 00

  I think that's very plain. He went there, he raped this woman. Now he's saying she died accidentally while this was happening?

• 55:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Why they were, originally you were saying why they were breeding.

• 55:48Speaker 00

  Yes, but I think he's, he's come around to admitting to the, the rape.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:53Speaker 00

  By this point, but he's still maintaining that it was an accident.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  How can it be an accident if you're in the process of rape?

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Can't.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  I, I don't see how it, it can.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  No.

• 56:08Speaker 00

  Now you can say, that's not what I went there to do.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  But you did it.

• 56:13Speaker 00

  But it happened as, as a part of a, a criminal action. So you're responsible for it.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  If he says, well, I, I put too much pressure on her, you know, abdomen while we, while I was raping her.

• 56:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Again.

• 56:27Speaker 00

  You shouldn't have been doing that.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  You weren't raping her, that wouldn't have happened.

• 56:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  You'd still be alive.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  So to me, all of that's, uh, again, I don't think they had a lot of way, uh, in, in the way of a defense.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:39Speaker 00

  I think they were trying to pull out of a hat, whatever they could. And he's probably lucky that the judge ruled that his confession was inadmissible because.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  I think that's probably the only reason they agreed to the plea deal. They, they would have went forward with trial and he would have gotten an even stiffer sentence.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 57:02Speaker 00

  But that's it for our episode on Samuel Hoshdeller. It's just fascinating, you know, number one, because he's Amish. And there's kind of a, an element there that a lot of us are not familiar with.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Different lifestyle.

• 57:20Speaker 00

  It's a different lifestyle than what most of us are used to. And so then there was the whole thing around the Miranda rights and, and all of that. But there's no doubt, you know, he committed a terrible, terrible act. And he's now paying the price, which he should be.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 57:39Speaker 00

  But that's it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  And Gabby.

• 57:44Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.