Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Melanie McGuire About this episode Melanie and Bill McGuire closed on their first home on April 28th, 2004. Two days later, Melanie filed a restraining order against her husband, claiming Bill hit her before leaving the house. Bill was missing for several days until his dismembered remains were found in three suitcases in the Chesapeake Bay. Melanie soon became the main suspect.
Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Melanie McGuire. The spouse is one of the first people that police have to rule out in a homicide case. They were unable to rule Melanie out. The more details the police learned, the more Melanie's story changed. And very little of what she had to say made sense.
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1:47 Speaker 00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 437 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
1:57 Speaker 01 I'm good. How about you?
1:58 Speaker 00 I'm doing great.
1:58 Speaker 01 Yeah?
1:59 Speaker 00 Did you have a good Memorial Weekend?
2:01 Speaker 01 I had a good weekend, yeah.
2:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, I did, too. The kids came up and they actually stayed for like five days. They stayed till Wednesday.
2:08 Speaker 01 Wow.
2:09 Speaker 00 Which was awesome.
2:10 Speaker 01 That is good.
2:10 Speaker 00 So we got to spend a lot of time with them.
2:12 Speaker 01 I got to, my boy came in town from LA, so I got to see him. And then MME went over and hung out with my daughter and my son-in-law and that was good, too.
2:22 Speaker 00 Yeah, good time, good time. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout-outs. We had Merritt Anderson.
2:26 Speaker 01 Hey, Merritt.
2:27 Speaker 00 Aaron Kane.
2:28 Speaker 01 I think it's A-Ron.
2:30 Speaker 00 A-Aron. Diane Dreyer.
2:32 Speaker 01 Hey, Diane.
2:33 Speaker 00 Angie West.
2:34 Speaker 01 What's going on, Angie?
2:35 Speaker 00 Rachel Drew.
2:36 Speaker 01 Thanks, Rachel.
2:37 Speaker 00 Crystal Strattkamp.
2:38 Speaker 01 Ah, there's Crystal.
2:39 Speaker 00 Veronica Goff.
2:40 Speaker 01 Ah, Veronica.
2:42 Speaker 00 Tasha Volk.
2:43 Speaker 01 Well, hey, Tasha.
2:44 Speaker 00 Lori Pousak.
2:46 Speaker 01 Ah, Pousak.
2:48 Speaker 00 Which you said in a very strange way on Patreon. We had Kristen Graves.
2:55 Speaker 01 Hey, Kristen.
2:56 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Jade Ryan.
2:58 Speaker 01 Hey, Jade.
2:59 Speaker 00 Then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Melissa Karuth.
3:04 Speaker 01 Karuth is in the house.
3:06 Speaker 00 Yep, appreciate all the support. Speaking of Patreon, we dropped a new Patreon episode on Saturday night. It's on Joseph Vilani and Raquel Gerajow. And these two kind of plotted the murder of a marijuana dealer. They wanted to take his stash, his money, his car, his watch. But it's really, you know, the stories they told and then what was proven out by their text messages and their digital footprint.
3:36 Speaker 01 Just not good storytellers.
3:37 Speaker 00 No, no, absolutely not. We also have a new episode out on True Crime All Time Unsolved where we're talking about 14-year-old Tristan Dilly, who was found dead in her bedroom in 2017. Phone records led to a 19-year-old named Paul Adams, who had been secretly communicating with Tristan for weeks. So this is a very interesting episode in that I think most people would call it more unresolved than unsolved.
4:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, so for the ones that don't typically like listening to unsolved cases, go out and listen to this.
4:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, this one is. Not solved, but you know, pretty much so. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All The Time?
4:25 Speaker 01 I am.
4:26 Speaker 00 We're talking about Melanie McGuire. Melanie and Bill McGuire closed on their first home on April 28, 2004. Two days later, Melanie filed a restraining order against her husband, claiming Bill hit her before leaving the house. Bill was missing for several days until his dismembered remains were found in three suitcases in the Chesapeake Bay. And it didn't take long for Melanie to become the main suspect.
4:56 Speaker 01 That's a lot of things happening right there.
4:58 Speaker 00 It's also quite a number of suitcases. Bill McGuire grew up in New Jersey in a troubled household. According to the Morristown Daily Record, he and his sisters left the home as teenagers. Bill moved in with his friend Lynn Polsky and later married Lynn's sister Marcy Polk.
5:18 Speaker 01 Do you have any friends that left home early?
5:22 Speaker 00 No, but I had a friend whose sister left home as a pretty young teenager.
5:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:29 Speaker 00 And struck out on her own, which we always thought was strange.
5:34 Speaker 01 You had a couple of friends in that same
5:36 Speaker 00 vein?
5:37 Speaker 01 Vein, yeah. And I always wonder why. You know, you wonder why. I mean, no one ever tells you why.
5:43 Speaker 00 Well, and you also don't know what's going on in the house, probably. Like we always say, nobody really knows what goes on behind closed doors. You know, how bad is it? What are they trying to get away from? Bill graduated high school and joined the Navy in 1982. He worked as a computer specialist for the military. He married Marcy in 1986. After she graduated high school, Bill was discharged in 1990 and the couple moved to Edison, New Jersey.
6:12 Speaker 01 Trying to think what a computer specialist would have been back then, you know?
6:16 Speaker 00 Well, obviously they had computers in the early 80s, but they were nothing like what we're used to today. Marcy told the Daily Record that Bill was physically and emotionally abusive and their marriage eventually came to an end. During their separation, Marcy went to Bill's apartment and met Melanie Slate, whom he was having an affair with. And, okay, if you have a person who is both physically and emotionally abusive, that's going to be a bad marriage. It's gonna be tough.
6:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:52 Speaker 00 But then if that person is also cheating at the same time, okay, very tough to keep a marriage together, or even keep a happy relationship with all those things.
7:05 Speaker 01 I mean, you're already struggling over the abuse and then you have to worry about the cheating. Yeah. But I'm guessing, you know, Bill probably learned this from his childhood home.
7:18 Speaker 00 It could be, right? We don't have all the details, but it did say it was a troubled household. Marcy told the Daily Record, she was young and naive, like I once was. I know it sounds awful, but he probably got what he deserved. And obviously, she's talking about what is going to happen to Bill later on. And yeah, it does sound awful. But Gibbs, I think this was a woman who was not happy with this guy.
7:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:49 Speaker 00 He was abusive towards her. He cheated on her. It wasn't like she had a soft spot in her heart for him.
7:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, like, oh, he was such a great guy. She's not gonna say that.
8:01 Speaker 00 Sources didn't provide much information on Melanie's early life. However, her mother, Linda Caparrera, told 48 Hours that Melanie was every mother's dream. She never got in trouble and was a good student.
8:16 Speaker 01 I think that's what moms would say about me, too.
8:20 Speaker 00 Like, all moms or your mom?
8:21 Speaker 01 All moms.
8:22 Speaker 00 Okay. You're just like, all moms around the world would say this about me.
8:29 Speaker 00 Melanie and Bill married in June 1999. Their first son was born less than a year later. The Maguires lived in an apartment in Woodbridge, New Jersey. Melanie worked as a nurse at a fertility clinic. Bill was a computer program analyst for the New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark. So we said, right, he was a computer specialist in the military. He got out and continued to work in that field. Now Melanie was a nurse at a fertility clinic. And I know you have a lot of experience with being handed a cup and a magazine. For what reason, I don't know. I mean, sometimes I feel like you just go into these places for
9:14 Speaker 01 recreational.
9:14 Speaker 00 The material, which does not seem right at all.
9:19 Speaker 01 Sometimes I'm just, you know,
9:20 Speaker 00 bored.
9:21 Speaker 01 Nothing to do that day. I'm gonna go down to the, to the lab.
9:26 Speaker 00 By the time their second son was born, Bill and Melanie had grown apart. Melanie said that this was partially due to Bill's trips to Atlantic City, where he gambled often. She told 48 Hours in a 2007 interview, that Bill became volatile. He once called her after getting a speeding ticket and was furious. She hung up on him and he called back and cursed at her. He threatened to kill her if she was home when he returned. She didn't believe him, but she was still scared.
9:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't know how that would come across like, if you're still home, I'm gonna kill you.
10:04 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't think it would be something that, you know, most spouses would want to hear. But he's mad because he got a speeding ticket.
10:13 Speaker 01 Slow down or don't complain about it if you get a ticket, you know, it's not her fault.
10:18 Speaker 00 In 2002, Melanie began having an affair with Dr. Bradley Miller, one of the partners at the fertility clinic. Like Melanie, Dr. Miller was married with young children. Miller would later testify that they talked about getting married, buying a house together and having kids, but neither of them had plans to divorce their spouses anytime soon.
10:40 Speaker 01 Sounds like a Hallmark show or maybe Hallmark always has a happy ending, doesn't it?
10:46 Speaker 00 Yes, I don't think a lot of the Hallmark movies are about, you know, cheating and
10:53 Speaker 00 Emotionally and physically abusive husbands and stuff like that.
10:57 Speaker 01 More like a life, lifetime show.
11:01 Speaker 00 Yes, you'd probably find that on Lifetime as opposed to Hallmark. Melanie said about the affair is quoted by 48 Hours. I was looking for attention, affection, understanding, and I found it there. And I am deeply, deeply ashamed of that.
11:18 Speaker 01 But I get it. She was looking for the opposite of what she was getting at home. And like she said, she found that, but it wasn't the right way to do it. So she's ashamed of it, but at the time, it sounds like it fit the need.
11:33 Speaker 00 Melanie told Dr. Miller that Bill once threatened to take their sons and disappeared if she ever filed for divorce. One of Melanie's coworkers testified that she discussed the high cost of her own divorce with Melanie in the months leading up to the murder. So there's a couple of things there. Threats against Melanie if she were to file for divorce. And then the money aspect, right? You start hearing about, you know, one of your friends, one of your coworkers divorce and how much it costs. Does that play a factor in what is to come?
12:12 Speaker 01 I think it does.
12:13 Speaker 00 Both of those things.
12:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:15 Speaker 00 According to State versus McGuire, Melanie regretted her marriage and didn't want to purchase a house with Bill. But on April 24th, 2004, the couple closed on their first home. They purchased a half a million dollar home in the Asbury section of Franklin Township. 48 Hours asked Melanie why she would agree to buy a house. If she was having marriage problems and wanted a divorce. Melanie said she did it for their children because they weren't going to end the marriage anytime soon.
12:47 Speaker 01 Well, we do do a lot of things for our kids.
12:49 Speaker 00 Yeah, we do. I mean, you also, I think, have to take some of the stuff that Melanie says with a grain of salt.
12:57 Speaker 01 For sure.
12:58 Speaker 00 You know, some of it I'm sure is true. Some of it is sprinkled with truth and some of it could be an outright lie. In a future complaint against Bill, Melanie wrote that he was obsessed with purchasing their home, adding, "He would go through periods of not sleeping for 48 hours, literally spending every minute that he was not at work, looking at real estate listings." I don't think that's healthy.
13:23 Speaker 01 I don't think it's healthy at all. Missing out on sleep.
13:27 Speaker 00 The couple returned to their apartment after closing. Bill called the gas company at 5:37 PM to transfer their account to their new address. At 5:44 and 5:59, Bill called two friends to tell them about the new house. So it does seem like Bill was a guy who was really fixated on this house.
13:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, really happy about, you know, finally buying it.
13:51 Speaker 00 Later that evening, Bill did not return a call from the seller, which he had done promptly on other occasions. There's no evidence that Bill spoke to anyone. After 6:10 PM, according to State versus McGuire, "The lack of activity was unusual because Bill was active on his phone and his BlackBerry."
14:12 Speaker 01 So one, he wanted this house really bad. So I find it strange that he didn't call the seller back. And then two, BlackBerry, I had a BlackBerry. Those were cool back in the day.
14:24 Speaker 00 Never liked them.
14:25 Speaker 01 Really?
14:26 Speaker 00 Not a fan, especially once the iPhone came out.
14:30 Speaker 01 Well, after that iPhone, yeah, yeah.
14:32 Speaker 00 And that was like 2004. So you were probably still rocking a BlackBerry while the rest of us had iPhones.
14:39 Speaker 01 I was a little late to the iPhone party.
14:41 Speaker 00 But you're right. I mean, this is a guy who, the minute they get back from the closing, he's on the, the phone with the gas company. That's how excited he is about this new house. He's calling friends and he doesn't return a call from the seller? Okay, that that seems odd. On April 29th, Melanie told friends, family and Dr. Miller that Bill attacked her early that morning before storming out of their apartment. She said this was the first time he had ever hit her. Melanie claimed that they got into an argument over a dryer sheet. She told 48 Hours, he hated them and I always left them in the pile of laundry.
15:25 Speaker 00 And from there, the fight progresses to me getting slammed up against the doorway and getting the dryer sheet shoved in my mouth and slapped across the face. At this point, one of the kids is there and I grab him, scoop him up and lock myself in the bathroom. Now, there are a lot of reasons why, you know, couples get into arguments. I don't know how many people argue over dryer sheets. Yeah, can they stick to your clothes? Yeah, they do all the time. I'll, I'll go to put on a pair of pants and a dryer sheet will pop out the bottom of the I hate that. The pants legs. Yeah. But do I immediately turn and start cussing out my wife?
16:10 Speaker 00 No, it's a dryer sheet. It's going to end up somewhere. You don't want static? You don't want, uh? Softness, the, the smell of the Downy. I love all that. Yeah. If you don't like it, bounce it out of there. See what I did? Bounce it out of there. I got you. But if what Melanie said was true, this is a very serious case of domestic violence. Sure it is. In front of your kid too. Yeah. Yeah, makes it even worse. I mean, getting slammed up against the doorway, getting slapped across the face. Bill threatened to take the boys and she would never see them again. He packed his things and drove off.
16:52 Speaker 00 That same day, Melanie spoke to attorneys about filing for divorce and went to the courthouse to get a domestic violence restraining order. She did not go through with the restraining order because the court was crowded that day. The following day, Melanie went to family court to get a restraining order against Bill. Now, I just wonder how many people are listening and thinking, I don't care how crowded the court is. If I'm in, you know, this terrible situation, I need to get this thing.
17:25 Speaker 01 That's what I'm thinking, you know?
17:27 Speaker 00 But it could be that, you know, she had to get back to whoever was watching her kids. You just never know in some of these situations, but could you read into it that, well, maybe she didn't need it that badly?
17:43 Speaker 01 Maybe. I mean, she didn't have an issue telling her friends, family and doctor what happened that day. And I think anybody in that family of hers that would have heard that would have said, hey, I watched the kids, go do what you have to do.
17:57 Speaker 00 And take as long as you need.
17:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:59 Speaker 00 As time passed with no word from Bill, his sister questioned why Melanie didn't report him missing. Melanie explained in 48 hours, it wasn't unusual for Bill to have a tantrum and leave. But I get it, right? If you're someone's sister and that person is missing, I think you're going to have questions of the spouse, you know? Why have you not reported the person missing?
18:23 Speaker 01 Right.
18:24 Speaker 00 On May 5th, 2004, a fisherman in Virginia's Chesapeake Bay found a suitcase floating in the water. An officer opened it and found human legs dismembered from the knees down. Okay? That is going to be a bad day for all involved.
18:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's not going to get home early that night.
18:45 Speaker 00 On May 11th, another suitcase washed up on the shore of Fisherman's Island. Inside was a man's torso severed at the waist with the head and arms still attached. And all of this would be bad. I have to imagine that would be even tougher than finding the human legs.
19:06 Speaker 01 I would think so. And the fact that it's seven days later than the first suitcase. So that means more.
19:15 Speaker 00 Decomposition, more smell, but, but you also have a face, a head. A fisherman and his wife found a third suitcase on May 16th that contained additional dismembered remains.
19:28 Speaker 01 I think at that point, if you're out there and you're finding a suitcase, I feel like maybe like, let's just turn around.
19:38 Speaker 00 Well, I don't know if all these people open them. I would think by the time the third suitcase is found, you're like immediately calling the police, you know, we're not touching this, we're not opening this. I don't want to see what's inside this. Also, I'm thinking, I gotta find myself a different place to fish.
19:57 Speaker 01 For sure.
19:57 Speaker 00 Because there's too many suitcases with body parts floating around here. The body had been drained of blood, wrapped in garbage bags and packed into three matching suitcases. The medical examiner found two 38 caliber bullets in the torso and entrance and exit wounds in the head and chest. Okay, this is giving me some Dexter type vibes.
20:22 Speaker 01 Sure.
20:23 Speaker 00 Now, the draining of the blood, the wrapping in, you know, garbage bags and things like that. And he didn't put them in suitcases. He didn't shoot people. He was more of a stabber. But the draining of the, the blood, and I took that to mean that that had been done before the dismemberment.
20:46 Speaker 01 Right.
20:47 Speaker 00 You're talking about some, some macabre stuff here.
20:51 Speaker 01 But if you're gonna do something like that, it kind of benefits you to drain the blood.
20:56 Speaker 00 Yeah, I would think easier done with the body drained of blood is as sick as that, that is. On May 21st, the police released an artist sketch of the victim. Within days, an anonymous caller contacted the police suggesting it was Bill McGuire. The Daily Record reported that the caller was Susan Rice, whose husband Jonathan served in the Navy with Bill and remained friends with him. A fingerprint check confirmed the body was Bill McGuire. So it must've been a pretty good sketch for this woman to say, oh, that looks like Bill.
21:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
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24:02 Speaker 00 Melanie had filed for divorce on May 25th, 2004. Four weeks after her husband disappeared, the police notified her that his body had been found. She had her first interview with a Virginia Beach detective on June 2nd, 2004. She described how Bill attacked her on April 29th and said she heard him rummaging around before he left. He said she would never see him again. She reluctantly admitted that the three suitcases belonged to her and Bill. Melanie mentioned that Bill had a habit of saying things that angered people and he often gambled in Atlantic City.
24:43 Speaker 00 She suggested the police could find Bill or his vehicle there.
24:48 Speaker 01 So he's a gambler. Maybe he's hooked up with the wrong people in Atlantic City.
24:54 Speaker 00 Maybe he owes somebody some money. I mean, when you have a habit of saying things that anger people, could somebody want to do you harm? Yeah, obviously. But to me, the big thing here is her admitting that the three suitcases are theirs.
25:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:12 Speaker 00 So what does that mean? That Bill left and took the suitcases with him? Somebody killed him and used his own suitcases to pack up his remains?
25:23 Speaker 01 It's strange for a guy to take a suitcase, let alone three, right?
25:28 Speaker 00 Three suitcases? I don't even know if I own enough to, to fill three suitcases. She was asked if Bill used EZ-Pats, an automatic toll collection system that is pretty common on the East Coast. Melanie told the detective that Bill had an account, but didn't always use it. Two days after the interview, Bill's car was found at a tow yard in Atlantic City. It had been abandoned at a motel. So the car is found in Atlantic City. She mentioned to police that he often gambled there.
26:01 Speaker 01 Right.
26:02 Speaker 00 And that, well, maybe you'll find his vehicle there. And that's where it was found.
26:06 Speaker 01 Conveniently.
26:08 Speaker 00 Only Bill's fingerprints were found in the vehicle. His cell phone and pamphlets for hotels in Atlantic City and Virginia Beach were also found in the car. In the glove compartment, police found a syringe and a vial of chloral hydrate, a sedative.
26:24 Speaker 01 Really? Chloral hydrate? You ever injected yourself with that?
26:29 Speaker 00 No, no, but I think you're playing it off as that you, as if you don't know exactly what chloral hydrate is and you don't have your own stash, which I think is pretty funny. The prescription was made out to a patient of Dr. Bradley Miller. It was filled on the morning of April 28, 2004, at a Walgreens in Edison, New Jersey. And I didn't even know you could get a prescription for a sedative that came in a syringe. Like you're literally poking yourself with a sedative?
27:07 Speaker 01 Well.
27:08 Speaker 00 That's been prescribed?
27:10 Speaker 01 And I guess, I mean, how do you monitor the dosage?
27:13 Speaker 00 I have no idea.
27:14 Speaker 01 I mean, really trusting the patient to not exceed?
27:18 Speaker 00 The recommended dose, but the key here is obviously, right, that it's Dr. Bradley Miller.
27:24 Speaker 01 Right.
27:25 Speaker 00 According to State versus McGuire, records show that Melanie dropped her boys off at daycare about 12 minutes before the prescription was filled. And the Walgreens in Edison is about one and a half miles from the daycare, about an eight minute drive.
27:43 Speaker 01 So pretty suspicious.
27:44 Speaker 00 Very, I would say very. There's the, the Dr. Bradley Miller tie. There's her in the area of the Walgreens.
27:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:55 Speaker 00 At the time that the prescription was filled. The prescription was ordered by Dr. Miller on his prescription pad, but he denied writing the prescription. And a handwriting expert later determined the writing was not his. The expert couldn't definitively say Melanie wrote the prescription, but she couldn't be excluded either.
28:18 Speaker 01 Well, she was the nurse at his office and she was sleeping with him. So she could have got her hands on that prescription pad.
28:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think it's safe to say, you know, when you're sleeping with someone, you might have a little more access to things than you would just in your normal course of business, you know, at the clinic.
28:37 Speaker 01 Yeah. A little more free, free range.
28:42 Speaker 00 Free range. I mean, you know, when people are taking their clothes off, okay, there's the ability to maybe get into somebody's pocket. Maybe he wore his lab coat over. I don't know. I'm just, maybe they were role playing. I don't know.
29:00 Speaker 01 Maybe she was the doctor who wore the lab coat.
29:02 Speaker 00 I have no idea. This thing could have gone a myriad of different ways.
29:07 Speaker 01 It really could have.
29:08 Speaker 00 The managing partner at the clinic later testified that he and other doctors were unlikely to prescribe chloral hydrate for their patients. He said nurses were allowed to sign prescriptions and it was not unusual for Melanie to sign Dr. Miller's name. So the first part doesn't surprise me. Like I said, I was kind of flabbergasted that, you know, they're prescribing this kind of sedative in a syringe for patients to use at home. What does surprise me is that nurses were signing prescriptions and maybe that happens more often than I, I think it does. But for her to be signing his name, that has to be out of the ordinary, right?
29:53 Speaker 00 And against some code.
29:55 Speaker 01 I think DEA's probably came down pretty hard on that kind of stuff. I don't think you can do that.
30:03 Speaker 00 Dr. Miller's patient later testified that she had appointments with him in March and April 2004, but he never prescribed her chloral hydrate and she had never been to the Walgreens in Edison. Soon after Bill's car was found, media outlets reported that the police had surveillance video of the person who parked it at the motel. And I think if you are the person who parked the car upon hearing that you're going to need a change of underwear.
30:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think you shit yourself.
30:34 Speaker 00 Yes, because it has to feel like the bomb is about ready to be dropped.
30:41 Speaker 01 Kind of reminds me of our Patreon episode where the individual had to keep changing their story because certain things were dropped on them. I think it's going to happen in this story.
30:52 Speaker 00 Well, it does for sure, a little bit, because after these reports came out, Melanie told Dr. Miller, she drove to Atlantic City on April 29th to search for Bill and his car. She claimed she found the car in the parking lot of the Taj Mahal Casino. And to spite Bill, she moved his car to the Flamingo Motel, one and a half miles away. She then took a cab back to Woodbridge because she was tired. She napped during the ride, so she decided to take another cab back to Atlantic City to get her own car.
31:29 Speaker 01 Well, I'd be pissed if someone took me from the Taj over to
31:33 Speaker 00 To the Flamingo.
31:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, what the hell?
31:36 Speaker 00 One and a half miles away. But, you know, like you said, right? Okay, some information comes out. She's not talking to the police.
31:45 Speaker 01 Right.
31:46 Speaker 00 She's talking to her lover and, and kind of trying to explain things to him. State versus McGuire also reported that before traveling to Atlantic City. Melanie drove to a motel in Edison and paid cash for her room. Melanie claimed she made two additional trips to Atlantic City on May 2nd and May 18th to look for Bill and check on the car. So first of all, she doesn't give a rat's ass about Bill and where he's gone. And now suddenly, she's worried and she's making multiple trips to Atlantic City to check on him. Although at one point, she does move his car a mile and a half away out of spite.
32:30 Speaker 01 But she wants to check on it, make sure it's okay, because it's over at the Flamingo and, you know, you never know what's going to happen over there at the Flamingo.
32:36 Speaker 00 This is at the Taj, be much safer.
32:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, I guess, yeah.
32:40 Speaker 00 A detective later looked into her statements and found no record of taxi fare to Atlantic City in the early hours of April 30th, 2004. So Melanie had been caught in a major lie. On April 30th, she went to the courthouse to testify in order to get a restraining order. She claimed she didn't know where Bill could be found despite moving his car hours earlier. Yeah, that's a, that's a big lie to be caught in. New Jersey authorities took over the case in October 2004. Based on the theory that Bill was killed in his home state, Melanie was identified as the prime suspect. And I don't
33:21 Speaker 00 know how she couldn't be. I mean, number one, she's the spouse. So you've got to eliminate the spouse as one of the first people. But then also, you know, once you get caught in a lie, and especially in the lies that she was caught in, okay, that's going to rocket you up the suspect. Oh, yeah. New Jersey police soon learned that Melanie purchased a 38 caliber handgun in Pennsylvania on April 26, 2004, just two days before Bill went missing. However, this weapon could not be found. But he was shot with a 38 caliber. So that for sure is not going to lessen the focus on you. Right.
34:04 Speaker 00 If anything, it's just going to intensify it. You purchased a gun a couple of days before Bill goes missing. For some reason, you go to Pennsylvania to buy it. And then after, it turns out that it's the exact same caliber as the gunshots that are found in Bill's remains. And then you don't know where the gun is. Mysteriously, it's gone. Yeah. After the murder was discovered, Melanie told Dr. Miller and other friends that Bill asked her to buy a gun for him because he couldn't purchase one himself. Due to a felony driving conviction, Bill had a poor driving record in New Jersey and had 33 suspensions,
34:49 Speaker 00 per the daily record. In 1997, he was sentenced to three years of probation and fines for false tampering with a witness. Regarding the circumstances surrounding a traffic stop. Thirty-three suspensions is
35:04 Speaker 01 Pretty hefty.
35:04 Speaker 00 Quite a number.
35:06 Speaker 01 But it still doesn't look good. You went and bought this gun. You can say you bought it for him, but you bought it two days before he was killed with a similar caliber weapon.
35:17 Speaker 00 But it's just so interesting, right? How everything she says is to try to kind of circumvent or explain what police are finding out.
35:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:30 Speaker 00 Everything.
35:31 Speaker 01 It's like, hey, baby. I know this doesn't look good. You're talking to the doctor, right?
35:36 Speaker 00 Right.
35:37 Speaker 01 Doesn't look good, but let me tell you, this is what happened. This is why I did it. And it's, it's not what you think.
35:43 Speaker 00 Yeah. Or when she's talking to the police.
35:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:46 Speaker 00 Right? She doesn't say beforehand that she bought a gun.
35:51 Speaker 01 No.
35:52 Speaker 00 Or that Bill wanted her to buy a gun. That comes after they learned that she purchased one. In her application for the restraining order, Melanie answered no to a question about whether Bill had a gun or if there were guns in her house.
36:07 Speaker 01 And you would think if you really want that restraining order, that would be a yes if you knew that he had a gun and you knew that he had a gun because you just said you went and bought him a gun.
36:17 Speaker 00 Right. So, you know, just again, things don't add up. Why do they not add up? It's because people lie. She told Dr. Miller and others that she believed Bill locked the gun in a box, which she put away in storage. During the investigation, the police searched the storage area with Melanie's permission and found a locked box that contained batteries, but not a gun. I mean, you always want to keep your batteries in a, in a locked box because they're so precious.
36:48 Speaker 01 And you want to be able to find them like three years later and they have all that, you know, corrosion coming out of them.
36:53 Speaker 00 Acid.
36:54 Speaker 01 Acid.
36:54 Speaker 00 Like battery acid. The police started working with James Finn, who attended nursing school with Melanie. Finn later testified that he had a romantic interest in Melanie that she did not return. They remained friends and kept in contact with each other over the years. In mid-April 2004, Melanie wrote to him about her marriage problems and made a joke about him owning a gun. She said Bill was acting strange and had started drinking more and she feared for her safety. In his response, Finn spoke to her about the requirements for purchasing a gun in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Melanie purchased a revolver and ammunition at a gun store in Palmer Township, Pennsylvania.
37:39 Speaker 00 She used her Pennsylvania-issued driver's license that had her aunt's address on it. She continued emailing James Finn after making this purchase, but she didn't tell him about it. And gives the one thing that kind of stuck out to me was, okay, you're emailing back and forth with this guy. You're talking about your husband, your marriage problems, and you're making a joke that this guy owns a gun.
38:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:07 Speaker 00 Meaning what? You could take care of my problems for me?
38:11 Speaker 01 It may be.
38:12 Speaker 00 Is that a joke that is somehow a test to see if the other person bites? Could be.
38:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, maybe trying to drop it out there and see what she gets back in return.
38:24 Speaker 00 Without, without coming out and asking, hey, will you kill my husband? A year after the murder, Finn allowed the police to record his phone conversation with Melanie. She told Finn that Bill asked her to buy a gun for protection in their new home. Prosecutors didn't buy Melanie's story, that Bill was involved with shady figures due to his gambling in Atlantic City. As there was no evidence of this, they tapped Melanie's phones and put her and her parents under surveillance. It was during this period that investigators discovered Melanie's affair with her boss.
38:58 Speaker 01 Oh, so the affair was going on. Even after all this.
39:02 Speaker 00 Yeah, before and after. And we talked about her being a focus of the investigation. Finding out that she bought the gun, finding out that she made these multiple trips to Atlantic City, that she moved his car. Then you have this stuff with James Finn. And now they find out that she's having an affair with her boss. The police believe this could be a potential motive and secure Dr. Miller's cooperation. Investigators recorded their conversations in which Melanie swore she did not kill her husband. And I'm just wondering, at what point did he have to come out and tell his wife that that he had an affair with this woman?
39:47 Speaker 01 I think when the police were.
39:49 Speaker 00 At your house?
39:51 Speaker 01 Probably had to say something by then.
39:53 Speaker 00 Or at some point, I'm sure he had to tell her. A state police computer expert found suspicious Google searches on the Maguire's personal computer between April 11th and April 26th. The searches included the following topics listed in State versus Maguire. Undetectable poisons, state gun laws, instant poison, gun laws in Pennsylvania, toxic insulin levels, fatal insulin doses, fatal de jackson doses, instant undetectable poison, how to commit suicide, how to commit murder, how to purchase hunting rifles in New Jersey, pesticide as poison,
40:39 Speaker 00 insulin as a poison, morphine poisoning, how to find chloroform, insulin shock, neuromuscular blocking agents, sedatives, tranquilizers, barbiturates, nimbutal, pharmacy, chloral hydrate, chloral and side effects, and Walgreens.
41:00 Speaker 01 That's a library of information right there.
41:04 Speaker 00 Or Gibby on a.
41:07 Speaker 01 It's normal Tuesday night.
41:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, a couple nights ago. Yeah, I had some pretty good searches.
41:13 Speaker 01 But I mean, clearly, whoever searched on the computer really wants to do harm to somebody.
41:22 Speaker 00 Well, and how many of these searches kind of fit with what we already know, right? Gun laws in Pennsylvania. Did she go to Pennsylvania because it's easier to buy a gun in Pennsylvania than it is in New Jersey?
41:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, chloral hydrate. What did she find out when she searched that?
41:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I think that was a big one, right, that stood out to investigators because the drug was found in Bill's car. And obviously, we know there was a prescription. We know it was picked up at Walgreens. You have Walgreens in the searches.
41:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:59 Speaker 00 With the help of Melanie's friends, investigators eventually learned about her trip to Atlantic City on April 29th and her admission that she found and moved Bill's car. And all of this was enough to charge her with murder. Melanie was arrested on June 2nd, 2005. Not looking good for Melanie McGuire at this point.
42:22 Speaker 01 Not looking good at all.
42:24 Speaker 00 After she was released on bail, law enforcement received anonymous communication directing them to persons other than Melanie. In August 2005, copies of a four-page letter were sent to a newspaper. Melanie's former attorney and others, the letter was addressed to the Attorney General and written by someone who was concerned about the children being left without a mother. The writer claimed to have killed Billy Mack because he was unreliable and greedy.
42:57 Speaker 01 Oh, wait, so the person wrote a letter because they killed him? And they wanted to make sure that the police and the public knew they were concerned for the kids and didn't want the mom to be in trouble for something they did?
43:13 Speaker 00 Yes.
43:13 Speaker 01 Okay.
43:14 Speaker 00 Makes total sense.
43:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:16 Speaker 00 Because.
43:18 Speaker 00 You know how concerned most killers are with other people being accused of their crimes? Now, there have been killers who have been mad because they want the credit.
43:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:30 Speaker 00 For their crimes.
43:31 Speaker 01 Your Zodiac, didn't he write a letter?
43:33 Speaker 00 Yeah, but I don't know how many hardcore killers are worried that, you know, seeing these kids are going to be left without their mother.
43:39 Speaker 01 Right.
43:41 Speaker 00 The writer provided three facts about the murder and dismemberment that were not public knowledge. The letter also contained detailed information about Bill's thoughts and his mistreatment of Melanie. Okay, so you have facts that are not known to the public. And that often lends credence, right? That you were involved in the murder.
44:06 Speaker 01 It's also a very big risk if they find out if she wrote that letter. Because now you just put things in the letter that only the killer can know.
44:15 Speaker 00 Yeah, but I think it's the second part, you know, information about Bill's thoughts, his mistreatment of Melanie.
44:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:24 Speaker 00 How does the killer know that?
44:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think it'd be a hard thing for the killer to know.
44:29 Speaker 00 Unless the killer was someone really close, you know, family, a family friend? Or Melanie herself?
44:39 Speaker 01 Sure.
44:42 Speaker 00 On October 11, 2005, Melanie was indicted on four charges. First degree murder, second degree possession of a weapon for unlawful purpose, second degree desecration of human remains, and third degree perjury. I, I gotta be honest with you, Gibbs, I really don't understand the different degrees of perjury.
45:03 Speaker 01 I was just thinking the same thing.
45:05 Speaker 00 You either lied or you didn't lie.
45:06 Speaker 01 Is it just, I thought it was just perjury, you know? I didn't know there was like different degrees.
45:11 Speaker 00 Well, you know.
45:11 Speaker 01 Really bad perjury right there.
45:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, this is just a white lie, so it's only third degree.
45:17 Speaker 01 Yeah. Next time I'm caught lying, I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Is it a third degree lie?
45:22 Speaker 00 Or first degree?
45:23 Speaker 01 Or second degree? You know, I mean, if I'm going to take heat for it, let's label it so I can determine what type of heat I should take.
45:30 Speaker 00 That day, the prosecutor received a package that contained a letter supposedly from a coworker of Bill's sister, Cindy Ligash. The writer enclosed items that were allegedly found in the trash at Cindy's office building, including Bill's ring and bracelet, an empty ammunition box, a key to his car, a key to a lockbox at a storage facility, rubber gloves, prescription medications, and marijuana wrapped in tin foil. The package also contained sheets of paper with writing that the sender claimed was Cindy Ligash's.
46:07 Speaker 01 What does that even mean?
46:08 Speaker 00 I don't know. I feel like someone is trying to cast suspicion in different directions. Right? Is it Bill's sister that killed him? Was it this person who somehow has a soft spot for children and doesn't want their mother to be framed for this?
46:33 Speaker 01 It does seem suspicious, but not for the suspicious reasons you would think.
46:37 Speaker 00 Yeah. The return address was a Realtor's office in Franklin Lakes, New Jersey. However, the address was incorrect and the wrong number was listed. The shipping charge for the package was paid with an American Express gift card purchased on October 9th at a Rite Aid in Passaic. Surveillance showed a woman walking into the pharmacy, but Melanie could not be definitively identified. A forensic linguist pointed out similarities between known samples of Melanie's handwriting and the letter addressed to the Attorney General. On October 26, 2006, Melanie was indicted for the anonymous communications sent a year earlier.
47:22 Speaker 00 Not good for her. No, because as you said, right, there were facts disclosed in that letter that only the killer could know. So if it's proven that she wrote and sent that letter, it's very damaging. Melanie McGuire's murder trial started on March 5, 2007. The prosecution set out to prove that the murder was calculated. In April 2004, Melanie did research online about buying a gun, poisons, and sedative drugs. On April 28, 2004, she drugged Bill with chloral hydrate and shot him while he was unconscious. No chloral hydrate was
48:05 Speaker 00 found in Bill's body, but the state said that that was because he was found too late to detect the drug. Melanie then tried to make it seem like Bill abandoned his family. On April 29, she sent an email to his supervisor stating, "I will be out sick today." His phone was found in his car. It turned out that one of his emails was sent to the incorrect address, which would be unusual for Bill. Prosecutor said that Melanie also used Bill's phone to call his best friend in Virginia, but the friend claimed he did not receive a call from Bill. They argued that Melanie made the call and hung up quickly as part
48:46 Speaker 00 of her efforts to make it seem like Bill was still alive. And I get it, right? The prosecution is laying their case out. They're, they're kind of putting their, their theories forth. The one thing I will say is that, you know, if all this stuff is true, this woman went to great lengths.
49:06 Speaker 00 To try to make it seem as though Bill just up and left and was still alive.
49:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, she really put some planning behind this.
49:14 Speaker 00 And some effort.
49:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
49:16 Speaker 00 Now, all of it didn't work out, I'm sure, the way that she thought it would. The court heard that Melanie took a second trip to Atlantic City on May 1st through the 2nd, allegedly with her stepfather, Michael Caparrero, to check on Bill's car and create additional false evidence suggesting he was still alive. Prosecutors alleged that Michael helped get rid of Bill's car and said that Melanie's close friend, Celine Traviesas, unknowingly helped clean the apartment crime scene. No charges were filed against Caparrero or Traviesas.
49:56 Speaker 00 And I could see somebody, you know, being asked to help or offering to help, not realizing that they were actually cleaning up a crime scene.
50:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, you're thinking, oh, I'm just helping them clean up the apartment before they move into the house and just going to get all this cleaned up. And this looks like blood, but I guess it's just dirty.
50:15 Speaker 00 Well, I'm assuming that she didn't drain Bill's blood in the middle of the apartment all over the place.
50:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm thinking she probably didn't. She seems to be somewhat educated.
50:26 Speaker 00 I think she was smarter than a lot of criminals.
50:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:30 Speaker 00 I mean, again, she went through great efforts. Doesn't mean that you're not going to get caught. According to the prosecution, Melanie dismembered Bill's body over the next three days, likely with the help of an accomplice using a reciprocating saw and a knife. She wrapped the body in garbage bags and put it in suitcases. And I just want to know who this accomplice is that is helping you cut up a body.
51:00 Speaker 01 Well, it'd have to be somebody that really liked you a lot.
51:05 Speaker 00 You mean like someone you were having an affair with?
51:07 Speaker 01 Maybe because now you are part of the murder, right?
51:11 Speaker 00 After the fact.
51:12 Speaker 01 After the fact, yeah.
51:13 Speaker 00 But here's my thought, she could have done it by herself.
51:17 Speaker 01 I think so too.
51:18 Speaker 00 You know, with a reciprocating saw, which is very powerful. Most of them are very powerful.
51:25 Speaker 01 And she was a nurse, so she, she has some knowledge of the body.
51:29 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:31 Speaker 00 I was watching a crime show the other day and you know, they, they had a guy on there who was talking about how he cut up a body. And he said, the trick is you don't saw through bone. That's too hard. You just cut through the joints. Much easier.
51:47 Speaker 01 There you go.
51:48 Speaker 00 And he said it just like that. It was so matter of fact, like he was telling you how to carve up a Thanksgiving turkey.
51:56 Speaker 01 Yeah. Like this is how you do it.
51:58 Speaker 00 It meant nothing to him. She drove to Virginia on May 3rd, where she threw the suitcases off a bridge into the Chesapeake Bay. Prosecutors relied on EZ Pass records as part of their evidence in May and June 2004. Melanie told a detective that her caller ID showed a call from Bill's phone to their apartment on May 2nd, but he didn't leave a message. Bill's records did show a call in the early hours of May 2nd, and EZ Pass records showed the transponder in his vehicle, passing a toll plaza on the Atlantic City Expressway at 12:54
52:37 Speaker 00 a.m., 16 minutes before the call. Phone records also showed that on June 3rd, 2004, the day after her first interview with the police, Melanie called customer service at EZ Pass to dispute two charges. On May 2nd and May 18th, customer service refused to remove the charges.
52:59 Speaker 01 Why would she do that?
53:00 Speaker 00 Well, the estate alleged that Melanie purposely paid her tolls in cash because she knew using EZ Pass would create records of her trips. No other EZ Pass records were found for travel to Atlantic City, despite Melanie's admissions about making multiple trips.
53:20 Speaker 01 It's a little flaw in her plan.
53:22 Speaker 00 Well, but that's the kind of digital stuff, right? That trips people up. The defense countered with evidence of other occasions when Bill was in Atlantic City without corresponding EZ Pass records and argued that Melanie panicked after a detective asked about EZ Pass and didn't want to be falsely implicated in the murder, which is why she made the call to get the charges removed.
53:47 Speaker 01 I'm sure she was sitting on the couch or chair during that conversation, just couldn't wait for him to leave. So she can make that call like, shit, I forgot EZ Pass.
53:57 Speaker 00 The state also presented evidence of Melanie's parents, EZ Pass records. According to State versus Maguire, they frequently traveled the highways, but their records showed an unusual absence of activity from April 28th through May 2nd, when Melanie traveled to Atlantic City and Bill's body was dismembered. Okay, I mean, they are potentially throwing out there that her parents could possibly have been involved.
54:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:27 Speaker 00 EZ Pass records suggested Melanie and her parents met on May 3rd. Records from the daycare facility show Melanie picked up her sons and gave them to one or both of her parents. Prosecutors said she returned her to her apartment in Woodbridge afterwards to pick up the suitcases to dump Bill's body. Afterwards, she placed the chloral hydrate in a syringe in Bill's car to make it seem like he was abusing drugs, which she told friends.
54:58 Speaker 01 She kind of set it up already for that, right?
55:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of this she did try to set up ahead of time. Brochures for Atlantic City and Virginia Beach Hotels were placed on the front seat of Bill's car to make it seem like he was staying in hotels. However, Bill was familiar with these areas and had compensation offers from the Taj Mahal Casino that he could have used to pay for a room. And let's face it, if you're a person who goes to Atlantic City often to gamble, I don't really think you need brochures of the different motels, hotels there.
55:33 Speaker 01 Think you know where you're going to stay?
55:35 Speaker 00 Yeah, and you're probably going to be comped.
55:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:38 Speaker 00 If you're any type of significant gambler. The defense emphasized the lack of eyewitnesses and trace evidence. Despite multiple detailed searches, the police had no forensic evidence that a murder or dismemberment took place at the Woodbridge apartment. However, one of the bullets recovered from Bill's body was covered in greenish brown fibers. The state argued that this was evidence the gunfire was muffled by something like a pillow. A forensic scientist could not match the fibers with the Maguire's couch or throw pillows in the apartment, but Bill's sister testified that the family had other green throw pillows that were not recovered by investigators.
56:23 Speaker 01 They were missing somewhere.
56:25 Speaker 00 Well, and let's face it, if you used a throw pillow as a makeshift suppressor to muffle the sound of a gunshot, are you then gonna throw that throw pillow back on the couch with a big bullet hole in it?
56:40 Speaker 01 I don't think so.
56:41 Speaker 00 No, you're gonna get rid of it somehow.
56:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, besides the bullet hole on the one side, wouldn't you have a blood and other spatter or splatter on the other side?
56:52 Speaker 00 Or body material of some sort? Yeah. Yeah. It's not gonna be good, and it's not something that someone is not going to notice when they sit down. One expert testified that garbage bags from the Maguires' home matched the ones that were used to dispose of Bill's remains. When moving out of her apartment, Melanie put Bill's clothing in several industrial garbage bags. An acquaintance who helped her move kept the clothing and later gave these bags to the police. The garbage bags that contained human remains were sealed with tape. A DNA expert testified that they found one of Melanie's hairs on the adhesive tape inside one of the suitcases.
57:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, but you could argue that, right?
57:38 Speaker 00 Well, that if tape is lying around, it could have, you know, somebody's hair on it. Yeah, you can argue all these things, but I think the mountain of evidence, right? Could you poke holes in any one thing? Yeah, absolutely. But can you poke a hole in the whole mountain? I think that's when it becomes tough.
58:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:02 Speaker 00 Additionally, Bill's head was wrapped in a blanket from a hospital supply company. A representative of the company testified that the fertility clinic that employed Melanie had been their client since 2001.
58:16 Speaker 01 Well, I guess she figured, no one's ever going to find these suitcases. I can wrap it with anything.
58:22 Speaker 00 The defense emphasized that all the evidence against Melanie was circumstantial, and Bill was most likely killed due to his gambling habits. They accused the police of not pursuing these leads. The defense claimed Bill took the three suitcases with him on the night of his disappearance. A detective testified, however, that he did not think three suitcases would have fit in Bill's trunk, and there were two car seats in the back seats of his vehicle. The defense pointed out that the absence of forensic evidence to prove a shooting or dismemberment took place in the apartment. Neighbors did not report any strange noises on the night prosecutors believed the murder occurred. And I get it, right?
59:06 Speaker 00 When you look at a lot of these trials, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence. But here, I think it just keeps piling up and piling up, and eventually, it's just so high that it doesn't really point in any other direction.
59:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, doesn't look good.
59:26 Speaker 00 Melanie did not make any incriminating statements during the investigation, and she said she purchased the gun for her husband because of his prior conviction. Regarding the suspicious searches, the defense got an investigator to acknowledge they didn't know who actually made those searches. The defense pointed out that seconds after some of the incriminating searches, the browser history showed someone accessed the site that only Bill could access because it was password protected. Okay, I get what the defense is doing, but is it not possible that maybe Melanie had that password?
1:00:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, she could have.
1:00:08 Speaker 00 Although there was no forensic evidence in the apartment, crime scene investigators did find particles of Bill's flesh on the floor of his car. At the time, the media called it human sawdust. Oh, that's gross, isn't it? It's very gross. Prosecutors said Melanie transferred the particles to the car after dismembering the remains. The medical examiner testified that the particles were deep layers of skin that would not normally be shed by a living person. Oh, okay. I mean, we all shed skin, but only to a certain level. Yeah. And, and the medical examiner is saying this is way beyond that level, way deeper.
1:00:50 Speaker 00 On April 23rd, 2007, Melanie was found guilty of murder, desecrating human remains, perjury, and unlawful possession of a firearm. She was acquitted of hindering her arrest, writing the anonymous letters, tampering with evidence and drug possession. Prosecutors alleged she was illegally obtaining Xanax to relieve her stress while carrying out the murder and cover up. Sure she was stressed. I don't know how you couldn't be stressed if you had murdered someone and were in the process of trying to cover it up, dismember the body and get rid of it. Melanie received a life sentence on July 19th, 2007,
1:01:35 Speaker 00 but she still maintains her innocence. In 2020, Melanie did an interview with ABC where she raised questions about whether it was possible for the gun she purchased to be the murder weapon, saying, "No one plugged the serial number of my gun into a website to find out what the specifications were. There were five lands and grooves that my weapon was said to have made based on the company's website. The bullets that came out of my husband had six lands and grooves." However, former prosecutor Patty Prezioso told 2020, "It was a mistake on a gun manufacturer's
1:02:16 Speaker 00 website. We were not gathering evidence from a gun manufacturer's website. The evidence that was at trial was from ballistic experts." The real stuff. Yeah. Melanie also discussed the suspicious internet searches and said, "I'm a nurse, or I was a nurse, and I don't need to look up things like that. If I wanted to look for something like that, I have a physician's desk reference. I have a book that I can look in that doesn't leave an internet history." But it's not as convenient. Well, I don't think that a physician's desk reference tells you how to commit a murder. It also does not tell you where the Walgreens is.
1:03:00 Speaker 00 No, it does not. She also pointed out an unexplained animal hair found on Bill's body, which was noted in reports. Melanie has joined an advisory group for prison reform, co-runs a meditation group, and has tutored other inmates. In June 2023, she was commended for being charged free while in custody. Melanie also writes health advice columns for Perceptions, the NJDOC newsletter for inmates, which is posted online. In one newsletter, Melanie wrote that she hopes to get home and care for my parents before they die, and added, "I have
1:03:42 Speaker 00 no contact with or knowledge of my sons. I mourn their loss like a death." In the years since the murder, Bill's family has defended him and said, "He wasn't a violent person. He was not abusive towards Melanie." They also do not think he would abandon his children. Unless she files a successful appeal, Melanie will not be eligible for parole until May 2073, when she would be 100 years old. Wow. That is a long time away. It is, but also justified. Sure it is. Right? I mean, you took somebody's life. Now, she maintains she didn't. I feel as
1:04:26 Speaker 00 though the prosecution believes they had more than enough evidence.
1:04:32 Speaker 00 It seems like the courts, the judge, the jury, you know, everybody else believes that as well, based on the fact that she was convicted.
1:04:41 Speaker 01 But the doctors like, oh, man, good thing I'm out of this.
1:04:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, I, I think it probably couldn't have gone great for him from a number of standpoints. Number one, I'm sure his wife had to find out that he was having this affair. And number two, I don't know how many people want to go to a doctor who is kind of embroiled, at least on the fringe and, you know, this, this murder case.
1:05:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:10 Speaker 00 And was also having an affair with one of his nurses, all of that had to come out. But there are a couple of things that trouble me about this case. You know, didn't read a lot in the research about motive, right? That the prosecution put forth and they, they don't really have to find a motive. I mean, I'm assuming that most people would think it was that she wanted to be with the doctor.
1:05:41 Speaker 01 Probably.
1:05:42 Speaker 00 And the other question that I have is, you know, did she really have accomplices? I mean, the prosecution, without, I think, really coming out and saying it, kind of dangled it out there that her parents, in that, that kind of timeline, it seemed as though maybe they were helping her out. The problem is, we just don't know.
1:06:06 Speaker 01 I don't think we're ever going to know that.
1:06:08 Speaker 00 No, no, I, I, I can't imagine she would rat on her parents if they did have something to do with it, what would be in it for her. It's not going to help her at all. But it's grisly, right? To think about killing your husband, draining the blood, dismembering the body, putting it in three different suitcases and then chucking it off a bridge.
1:06:33 Speaker 01 And then all the pre-work into the story and then all the work she did after that to try to make it appear she had nothing to do with it.
1:06:43 Speaker 00 Well, the one thing you would have to say, it wasn't a spur of the moment thing.
1:06:46 Speaker 01 No, not at all.
1:06:47 Speaker 00 She had put some thought into it beforehand. There was planning, there was stuff afterwards to try to combat the evidence, to explain it away.
1:06:58 Speaker 01 I can understand why the sons aren't talking to her.
1:07:02 Speaker 00 No, I get it as well. But that's it for our case on Melanie McGuire. We got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out?
1:07:08 Speaker 02 Let's hear them. Hey Mike and Gibby, good afternoon. This is Brandy in North Fort Worth. I know I've called you a lot the last couple of days about cases, but I just wanted to tell you about this funny dream I had last night. I had a dream that y'all invited me to the studio and Gibby showed me his wood chair, his wooden chair, and he really had a wooden chair. And I looked at Mike Ferguson and said, that's it, I'm Team Gibby now. Anyway, keep up the good work. I love the show. I love the podcast. Um, I love you both. Y'all are great. I love the humor between y'all. I love how you take cases that are really gruesome and put a little, how
1:07:50 Speaker 02 would you say, a little laughter into them. But you respect the dead and you respect the people in the cases so wonderfully. Anyways, guys, um, again, I love the podcast. Keep up the good work and keep your own time ticking. Thanks.
1:08:06 Speaker 00 Well, I used to have a wooden chair. You kept it over here too for a while. Whatever happened to it? Did you finally throw it away? What happened to it was that it never existed. That wooden slatted chair. Never existed, ever. And I think, did we not prove that on the Patreon episode where I hooked you up to the lie detector test? No. I think you failed that one. I passed fine. No, I don't think you did.
1:08:35 Speaker 03 Hi, this is Veronica. I'm calling from San Diego, California. Uh, just wanted to say that I started listening to TCAT in November and I sped through all of the episodes. Love your podcast. Um, I just signed up for Patreon so I can hear even more of your podcasts. I love you guys. Um, best podcasts out there and I listen to a lot of True Time podcasts. My favorite part about you two is when you repeat each other. One of you will say like, "On a Tuesday," and the other one goes, "Yeah, on Tuesday." It's really funny. I haven't heard anybody mention it on any voicemails yet. And then I had a case suggestion from my hometown. It's Ellie Nessler, um, from Sonora, California. She went into a courtroom and shot and murdered
1:09:19 Speaker 03 her son's abuser. So, really interesting case. Tons of information out there on it. Um, and she had an interesting life even afterwards. So, maybe something you can check out. Have a great day. Keep your own time ticking.
1:09:32 Speaker 00 All right. Thanks for the kudos and thanks for signing up for Patreon.
1:09:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, Veronica.
1:09:37 Speaker 00 That means a lot. Um, that sounds like a very interesting case that we'll have to check out. It's kind of, um, what's that movie with Samuel L. Jackson where he goes and kills his daughter's rapist? A View to a Kill or?
1:09:53 Speaker 01 One with Matthew McConaughey.
1:09:54 Speaker 00 McConaughey and Sandra Bullock?
1:09:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:09:57 Speaker 00 He does it in the courtroom.
1:09:58 Speaker 01 He does it in the courtroom.
1:09:59 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:10:00 Speaker 01 I don't remember the name of the movie.
1:10:02 Speaker 00 I think it's a John Grisham one.
1:10:04 Speaker 01 It is.
1:10:04 Speaker 00 But I can't, I don't know if it's A View to a Kill or it's something like that.
1:10:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:10:08 Speaker 00 But anyway, that's it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike.
1:10:13 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
1:10:14 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
Previous Bryan Patrick Miller Next Meg Wellnitz-Appleton and Bill Meece Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated