Cathy Sposito

Catherine “Cathy” Sposito was a 23-year-old Prescott College student who was murdered on June 13, 1987, while hiking the Thumb Butte Trail in Prescott, Arizona. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Cathy Sposito. Cathy was shot, stabbed, and beaten, and the case quickly went cold with no known suspects. Investigators kept the case open for 36 years, but advances in DNA technology eventually provided the breakthrough. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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  Please play responsibly. 21+, physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia only. Void in Canada. Eligibility restrictions apply. Non-withdrawable spins issued at 50 spins per day for 20 days. Valid for select games only and expire each day after 24 hours. Spin values vary. See terms at casino.draftkings.com/promos. Ends November 22, 2026 at 11:59 PM Eastern Time. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 522 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

• 1:24Speaker 01

  I'm doing okay. How about you?

• 1:25Speaker 00

  I'm doing great. You and I just had some Chipotle.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  You did.

• 1:29Speaker 00

  We got a whole night of recording.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:32Speaker 00

  To go through. Probably a lot of people don't know, but we record one night a week.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  We do.

• 1:38Speaker 00

  And we, you know, spend the whole week researching, and then we knock out TCAT, Unsolved, and then the Thursday TCAT for the next week.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  And sometimes Patreon.

• 1:51Speaker 00

  Oh, and Patreon as well.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53Speaker 00

  So it's a lot in one night, but it keeps you from having to drive over multiple nights.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Well, it keeps you from having to feed me twice.

• 2:02Speaker 00

  That is true, because it's, uh, it's getting, uh, to be a much more expensive proposition than it was 10 years ago when we first started.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  I didn't realize till the other day that you guys actually keep a spreadsheet. I seen that on your, uh, system upstairs. I'm like, what is that? Is that a spreadsheet about every time I come here?

• 2:22Speaker 00

  Oh, my wife tracks everything. At some point, you may get a bill. I don't know.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  I think I might.

• 2:29Speaker 00

  I can't rule it out.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  You know? The weird thing is that she tacks on interest.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  10 years worth. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?

• 2:41Speaker 01

  I'm ready.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  We're talking about Kathy Sposito. College student Kathy Sposito was murdered in 1987 in Prescott, Arizona. And then over three decades later, modern DNA technology solved the case, which previously had no known suspect. And, you know, I like these cases. You and I also do an Unsolved podcast. And at the end of those episodes.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  Right? We're always talking about what is it going to take to solve this thing? And let's face it, at this, you know, this was an unsolved case for 30 years. And a lot of times we're talking about either someone with knowledge has to come forward, but more than likely, if they have anything that could lead to DNA, it's, it's going to be a DNA hit through some type of modern technology that maybe doesn't even exist yet, right? That's right around the corner.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  Catherine Ann Kathy Sposito was born on September 7, 1963. She was only 23 years old when she was murdered. And these are tough for me. You know, when you talk about women who are in the age range of our kids.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Okay, those are tough.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it makes it difficult.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  My oldest is two years older than Kathy was. My youngest is two years younger. So she's, she was right in the middle. And I just think about them every time we do cases like this, because, you know, I can't wait to see what they're going to go on and do.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  But in a lot of these cases, you have families who never got to see that. And it's heartbreaking. It really is.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, they never got to see their, their baby grow up.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  And see what they would have done, what they would have become, made of themselves. Kathy was originally from Brooklyn, New York. She moved to Arizona to study at Prescott College in 1985. I can imagine, you know, Brooklyn to Arizona might be a little bit of a culture shock.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  It's a big, big difference, I would think, you know?

• 5:00Speaker 00

  It is.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Brooklyn, you know, different culture, like you said. And then, and weather, too.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Oh, weather, absolutely.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, then you're out in Prescott. I think, I think Prescott's near Phoenix, if I remember.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  I have no idea.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. But, you know, I mean, warm, nice temperatures versus freezing.

• 5:22Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, the climate for sure, but, you know, also think about the density. Think Brooklyn.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  You know, people walking, you don't drive as much. In the rest of the country, most places, we drive a lot more.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  You do.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  Because we have to. We can't walk everywhere.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  You can, but it's going to be a long journey.

• 5:44Speaker 00

  It's going to be a long walk. Kathy attended Prescott for the 1985, 1986 school year. She majored in outdoor recreation and environmental studies. Kathy took a leave of absence during the 86, 87 term for unspecified reasons.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Wait a minute. I didn't know outdoor recreation was something you can major in, because I really feel like I could have excelled in that. I really do.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  Environmental studies, maybe not so much.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  I'm just talking about outdoor recreation.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  Well, I don't think it was like kickball. If that's what you're envisioning, I'm sure it had to be maybe a little bit more than that.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  There's some dodgeball in or something?

• 6:28Speaker 00

  Well, back in 1985, it could have been lawn jarts.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, very dangerous.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  Before they outlawed those. I don't know. But I don't think it's that unusual, right? For people in college to take a year off. Sometimes people call it a gap year. That's usually before you start college. But, you know, maybe you don't have enough money. Maybe you just, that first year kind of wiped you out, and you need a year to regroup or whatever.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Because you party too much?

• 6:56Speaker 00

  Or, in my case, I made it two years.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  But it was filled with way too much partying and had to regroup. But by the late spring of 1987, Kathy was back in Prescott and had registered for the upcoming fall semester. She got a job as a waitress at a local restaurant. Did you work while you were in college?

• 7:18Speaker 01

  I did. I had multiple jobs. I'd never waited.

• 7:22Speaker 00

  I have never waited, been a waiter. I've never worked in a fast food restaurant, and I've had a million jobs. You and I have talked about all the different jobs I've had. They've just never been in the, what I would call the service industry.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, the only thing I ever did at a restaurant was wash dishes.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. I don't think I have the temperament.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  To be a waiter.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  That'd be hard.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  You know?

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Because you'd be like, what, what do you mean you don't like it?

• 7:51Speaker 00

  I might throw some spaghetti on somebody. I just, I don't know. I don't know if I could do it. Ralph Borison, president of Prescott College, described Kathy as a solid, all-around outdoor person who often hiked alone, per the Arizona Republic. Kathy used her bike as her main mode of transportation to get around town. And I don't think that's unusual for college students.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  I don't think so either.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  I know it's probably different now, but when I went to college, freshman year, you couldn't even have a car.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Even if you were willing to pay for the parking. My daughters could, although I don't know if they did or not. I can't remember, but every, I didn't even have a bike. We just walked everywhere.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  I just rollerbladed everywhere. Put on the blades.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  The short shorts.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Short shorts.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. I get like a lieutenant dangle from Reno 911 vibe from you.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:46Speaker 00

  Roller skates, short shorts.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Quarter, quarter length shirt.

• 8:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Mesh, yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  It was good times back then.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  On June 12, 1987, Kathy went out to dinner with her friends and mentioned that she planned to go hiking in the morning, which wasn't unusual for her at all. So I think when they say, you know, she was an all-around outdoor person.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 00

  She really was. I mean, she was biking everywhere. She was hiking. It sounds like, almost like on a daily basis. She just loved to be outside, which I do not.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  You do not, no. But she was also majoring in outdoor recreation, so.

• 9:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, which I still don't fully understand what that is.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Maybe it has kayak involved and.

• 9:36Speaker 00

  Could be.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  All that other fun stuff.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  I took a golf class in college.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Frisbee golf?

• 9:41Speaker 00

  No, regular golf.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 9:43Speaker 00

  You just went and played golf.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  Seemed like the strangest thing.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  I think you probably aced it.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  That one I did. I also took history of rock and roll, which I thought was going to be a breeze. Hardest class I've ever taken in my life. They went back to like the twenties and thirties.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Oh, and you're like.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Like Robert Johnson. And, I mean, you had to know the name of the song, the author, the year, just by listening to it. It was, it was a lot harder than what I thought it was going to be.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Robert Johnson? He's the one at the crossroads?

• 10:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  In order to know that is because of the movie.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  Which was a good movie.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, whatever that was called.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  I love it when you start down a path and it leads to nowhere. But we all get what you're talking about. On the morning of June 13th, 1987, Kathy rode her bike to the Thumb Butte Trail. About 10 minutes outside downtown Prescott. The trail is in part of the Prescott National Forest and is a popular hiking spot. She arrived around 7:00 AM, chained up her bike and started hiking. About 20 minutes later, several people who were also hiking the trail heard screams for help. According to 12 News, because of the dense terrain, the hikers could hear her screams, but they couldn't reach her quickly.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  That would just drive you crazy, you know, I mean, you hear, I mean, you want to help somebody, but if the brush is so thick.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  Well, you don't know exactly where it's coming from. Also, depending on, you know, if you've got some high walls, maybe it's echoing around. It would make it a little more difficult to tell maybe exactly where the screams are coming from. But add that with the terrain and okay, I can see why it might be tough to get to her. And Arizona Republic report from 1987 states that the group heard a scream, but dismissed it as kids playing. And, you know, we've heard that time and time again.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  We have.

• 11:51Speaker 00

  Right? In episodes that we've done, whether it's, you know, a scream from within an apartment complex or from a house next door, you know, people don't always know what they're hearing. And I think they're oftentimes not quick to jump on the phone with 911 because they don't want to be wrong.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Right. They think, well, maybe it says somebody playing around, maybe it's kids. Maybe what I heard, I didn't hear, you know?

• 12:25Speaker 00

  Or I heard something, but again, I'm not sure what it is. I, I do think there's an element where a lot of people are just really worried about, you know, calling 911 and then it kind of ending up that they called for no reason. And maybe they think they're going to look bad or something like that. By the time the group found Kathy, she was dead. Her body was found 300 yards south of the parking area. So, I mean, horrible for these people, but obviously you know, at that point that this wasn't kids.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:02Speaker 00

  Screaming, right? This was a woman screaming who died by the time you could get to her.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  And at that point, knowing that she obviously just died, how nervous are you not knowing how she died?

• 13:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, because depending on how she died could mean that there's a predator. Maybe watching you, maybe not that far away lurking, yeah. It would be a scary situation either way.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  Kathy had been shot in the eye with a 22 caliber gun, stabbed and hit in the head with both a rock and a wrench.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  I mean, it sounds like overboard, right? I mean, pull out a gun, shoot, I'm going to come up and stab and I'm going to come up and pick this rock up. Oh, let me pull this wrench out of my pocket and hit you with that too.

• 13:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. Now I will say 22 caliber is not the heaviest, right?

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  The biggest bullet, you can kill somebody with a 22 caliber. There's no doubt about that. I think it kills more people every year than any other caliber. But that's just because a lot of people have 22s and a lot of those are accidental or, or whatever. But I just wonder if, you know, is this overkill? Or is this a scenario where, you know, the shot didn't do it? The stabbing didn't completely do it? And so it went further and further and further because let's not forget she's screaming.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:38Speaker 00

  At a certain point, so maybe some of these things didn't kill her when the person thought that it would.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Or could it be the opposite direction, right? Maybe they hit her with a wrench when she screamed and then hit her with a rock and then stabbed her and said, ah, just to make sure, I'll shoot once in the head.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  There was no, there was nothing in the research about the order of how everything happened. So it could have happened, like you said, she dry, she died of brain trauma and blood loss, according to the Arizona Republic. Shortly after the murder, Sheriff's Detective Gordon Diffendaffer said that there were no suspects and there were no signs, an attempt was made to assault Kathy. And I think that's, you know, always an important fact in these types of cases. You know, was there some sort of sexual assault involved?

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  Because then, you know, that plays into possible motive for the attack. If there's no sexual assault, well, then you gotta start looking at other things. Robbery or was this, you know, someone that this person followed? They, they were targeting them.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Cause you think the place was somewhat busy, right?

• 15:59Speaker 00

  There were other people there.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. So if you wanted to assault them, I don't know if that would have been the place to do it. You know, because maybe you get caught, but if you just wanted to kill somebody, maybe you can get in and get out fairly quick and, and not be seen.

• 16:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. Escape during, escape in the brush where nobody can see which way you went. Leads eventually ran out, but the case remained open and active for 36 years.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Long time.

• 16:30Speaker 00

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• 17:58Speaker 00

  Over the years, investigators said it was possible, there could be more than one suspect. And why would they think that?

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Maybe just because of the multiple weapons.

• 18:08Speaker 00

  That was my thought.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:10Speaker 00

  You know, you have a gun. You have some type of knife or stabbing implement, a rock, a wrench. So you either have one person who used all four of those, or you have multiple people who maybe each wielded that weapon.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Like everybody had to take responsibility.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, you could look at it a couple of different ways, but I could see why investigators would at least entertain that theory. In 2016, Kathy's brother, Sal Sposito, visited the crime scene with detectives and appealed for members of the public to come forward with new information. In a 2021 interview with 12 News, Sal said, this was no accident. Somebody with a lot of rage and anger wanted to put an end to her life.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, this definitely was not an accident. This was something that somebody wanted to make sure happened that day.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. I, I think we don't know everything, but that's the one thing you can say was certain.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  Right? Nobody accidentally shoots themselves in the eye, accidentally stabs themselves, accidentally hits himself with the wrench and with a rock.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 19:29Speaker 00

  It just doesn't happen that way. He noted that their father died in 2010 without knowing who killed Kathy. And then their mother passed away a few years later.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's too bad. They never got the answers that they should have had before they passed.

• 19:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. And unfortunately we deal with that a lot in our unsolved episodes. Right? When it takes 20, 30, 40, even 50 years. In some of the cases we've done, um, to get close to finding the killer.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  A lot of the loved ones are gonna have passed away by that point. Sal said, I always said she died of a broken heart because the last 27 years of her life, she took it the worst. Now, she's, he's talking about his mom at that point. And how could you not?

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:19Speaker 00

  Right? Unimaginable to lose a child.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Every day would be tough. Every day.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  But your life changes forever.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 00

  We, we don't have firsthand experience, but I can only imagine.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:32Speaker 00

  What that would be like. Sal expressed his hope for a break in the case in his lifetime, saying, somebody has to know something. And I always believed that.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:44Speaker 00

  You know?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Somewhere.

• 20:45Speaker 00

  First of all, the killer knows.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  That's for sure.

• 20:48Speaker 00

  At the very least.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  And then, you know, as we often talk about, is that person going to be able to keep that secret to themselves forever?

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Most can't.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Most can't. They might confide in somebody who chooses to never say anything. You know, now maybe they get drunk and say something to the wrong person, and we've seen that before as well.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  People like to talk.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. In 2022, Yavapai County Sheriff David Rhodes said a cold case team was working to get DNA results from evidence that could turn into a new lead. On August 25th of 2023, Sheriff Rhodes announced that investigators had identified Kathy Sposito's killer. He was a man named Brian Scott Bennett.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  So they have to be pretty excited about this.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  I would think.

• 21:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think so. Now, here's the other thing, right? 2022 is when they started working to get DNA results.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:57Speaker 00

  From evidence that they already had. And how often does this come up? Right? How much or evidence is sitting on a shelf somewhere in these hundreds, thousands, maybe 10,000s of cases that they just haven't processed yet?

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, more than we care.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. And we know why, right? It's time, it's money, resources, all of that. But, you know, with all of these advances in DNA, they can extract more from less than what they could, you know, years ago. And that may be what happened here, or it could just be that this was the first chance they got around to really trying to, you know, get DNA from this evidence. But Rhodes also revealed that Kathy was not the only victim. At the time of Kathy's murder, Brian Bennett was a 16-year-old Prescott High School student.

• 23:04Speaker 00

  16 years old.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  He's a kid.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  I mean, it, it's hard to imagine.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  And we know what happens. We've dealt with a lot of younger killers. It's just hard to think of a 16-year-old being capable of this type of brutal murder.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  But unfortunately, it, it does happen. Now, he wasn't identified in 1987 because let's face it, right? DNA analysis was a, a brand new field, and it was not a standard investigative tool back then. I mean, heck, you think about 84, 85 kind of being the very beginnings of DNA when it comes to law enforcement. So 87, they weren't that far along.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  No, they weren't.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  And a lot of people really didn't know anything about it. They weren't using it probably in, in most jurisdictions. In April 1990, Bennett attacked and sexually assaulted a second woman on the same trail. And at the same time of day, Kathy was killed. The victim was camping with her boyfriend and decided to hike thumb but tripped within minutes. Bennett stuck up behind her and held a rock to her head. He ran off into the woods after the attack. So I, I don't know. I mean, what do you make of this?

• 24:33Speaker 00

  I mean, here's a guy who goes back to the very same spot at the exact same time of day.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:44Speaker 00

  And essentially tries to do a very similar crime.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, picks up a rock, threatens to beat that person with a rock.

• 24:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. Why?

• 24:55Speaker 01

  I think because he feels confident.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  Well.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  Because he didn't get caught before.

• 24:59Speaker 00

  I get that. I get that, right? He got away with it once. So does he feel confident that he can get away with it again in the same spot? I think you're, you're probably on to something. You know, there is something about these killers, they kind of work in familiar territory.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 00

  And whether that's where they choose to attack, how they choose to attack, the type of victim they choose to attack, or when you think about disposing bodies, we've seen time and time again where the, you know, they dispose of bodies, many killers do, in the same area because they're familiar with it. They've gotten away with it. And then by the time police catch up with them, they find all these bodies within 100 yards of each other.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  I think he was comfortable because he knew the area, he knew how to get in, get out, and also think he was comfortable because he knew maybe the type of victim he wanted would show up there.

• 26:04Speaker 00

  Hiking along this trail.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. I, I think you're right with that. In July 1990, Bennett was accused of attempted assault at a house party in Chino Valley, Arizona. The victim was reportedly drinking and went to lie down in the bedroom. Bennett followed her into the room and attempted to sexually assault her. Witnesses managed to break down the door to stop him, and he ran away. So we're not talking about a choir boy.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  No, we are not.

• 26:35Speaker 00

  Right? He is not a good individual, has a, a pretty brutal history, but good on these, uh, these people at the party.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, to be, uh, have enough awareness to catch that.

• 26:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, they could have heard sounds and just thought, oh, it's, you know, it's a couple who snuck away to have some intimate time alone.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 00

  But they didn't, and they broke down this door and they stopped this guy.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:03Speaker 00

  He was arrested but was acquitted due to conflicting eyewitness testimony. Bennett dropped out of high school in 1988. He briefly joined the army but deserted in 1989. In 1991, he was convicted of forgery and received three years of probation.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  So not really a great person.

• 27:27Speaker 00

  No. I mean, I think the more we talk about it, the worse it gets.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  Right? His character, his litany of crimes. On June 2nd, 1993, Bennett approached a fourth woman at the Prescott Post Office and forced her into her car by knife point. He sexually assaulted her multiple times. A police officer pulled the vehicle over for failure to dim headlights and the victim escaped. She was, believed she was going to be killed because Bennett said to her, as reported by ABC, "I can't let you go because you've seen my face." And that's a thing that a lot of killers either think

• 28:13Speaker 00

  from the beginning, or they start to think as their crimes go on. Many times, it's because somebody identified them in a lineup.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  At a certain point, and then after that, they come to the, the realization that they just can't let that happen again.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  You know, I also feel like, you know, if you say that to somebody and you didn't have a mask on, so you knew going into it, you were gonna have to kill them.

• 28:40Speaker 00

  It's not like you realized it all of a sudden. If you had thought about it at all, you would have put a mask on or, or something like that. But, you know, here's my thing, right? This guy, he has a pretty documented history of sexually assaulting women.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:59Speaker 00

  So if we go back and, you know, talk about Kathy's murder, and we said it, right, earlier, there were no signs that she was sexually assaulted. I just wonder why that would be? Is it because he realized that there were, there was another group of people not that far from him?

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  And she screamed and he thought, well, I better get out of here before they come over.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Most likely.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  Because it sure seemed as though this was a person who, um, enjoyed, and I hate to use that word, but I don't know what other, other word to use, sexually assaulting women. He had no problem with it.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  He did not have a problem with it.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  I think, uh, I think that's for sure. Bennett was once again arrested, but there were no consequences due to a lack of evidence, according to AZ Family.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Got off lucky.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  Well, you know, when you go back into the 80s and the 90s and you start talking about sexual assault, it can be very frustrating.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 30:12Speaker 00

  Because it doesn't seem as though, I, I shouldn't even say seem, it was not taken as seriously as it is today.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  That's very true.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  You know, we, we have seen so many sentences that have pissed us off because you're comparing what this monster did to some woman versus what they ultimately got in punishment, and it makes no sense whatsoever.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:42Speaker 00

  And again, what were we telling these people back then? Yeah, you might get caught, but it's not going to be a deterrent because your punishment was not that severe.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  It still makes me mad.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  I, I understand.

• 31:00Speaker 00

  On January 27th, 1994, Bennett returned to his home state of Kentucky and died by suicide. So he was never convicted of a violent crime throughout his whole life.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  No. He got by.

• 31:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. In 2020, detectives got a break in the case when they were looking into the April 1990 attack, which had DNA evidence on file. Using familial genealogy, investigators identified a female descendant of the suspect who gave the names of two potential suspects, Brian Bennett, or his younger brother. And, you know, you've heard me say it, but familial genealogy, genetic genealogy, all that stuff is and has been groundbreaking. The amount of cases that it's kind of cracked wide open is awesome. But also how they go about doing it.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:04Speaker 00

  You know, they, they narrow it down to a family tree. Okay, it could be this person, it could be this person, but then you gotta go maybe get a sample, which nobody's gonna give up willingly.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:18Speaker 00

  So you gotta steal their used cup and straw, or you know, whatever it is.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Just lying waiting. Okay.

• 32:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  They gotta, just put their coffee cup down.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  Or go through their, their trash.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  And get it that way. So to rule out the brother, authorities gathered evidence to obtain a warrant to exhume Bennett's body. The body was exhumed in November 2022. In March 2023, DNA testing linked Bennett to the April 1990 rape case on the thumb but trip. Investigators then compared his DNA to the DNA profile in the Kathy Sposito case, and it was a match.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  And they got to be feeling really good.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, it was a lot of work, I'm sure.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:10Speaker 00

  And it took a long time, but they had to be elated that they finally got some answers. But here's the thing that really jumped out at me. You know, this type of testing and this investigation may not just crack or solve one case, it could solve a whole bunch of them.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  It could. Yeah, it could set off a whole domino effect.

• 33:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. Where they have DNA evidence.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  During his August 2003 press conference, Sheriff David Rhodes said the murder rocked the city of Prescott. People wondered how such an atrocious crime could happen there.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  I think a lot of cities are like that. They just, they can't fathom how something like that could happen in their community.

• 33:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I think the smaller the community, the better the chance of that happening.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:02Speaker 00

  Right? If you're in New York City, okay, there's a lot of crime, right? Are you unbelievably surprised to hear about a violent crime? No, probably not. Number one, there, you know, are millions and millions of people.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:19Speaker 00

  So they're just by that nature, gonna have way more violent crime than a, a city with 20,000 people or 15,000 people.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:29Speaker 00

  So in a city like that, to have a, a assault, a murder, it, it's gonna be much bigger news.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Where I live, something happened, it'd be huge, you know, I mean.

• 34:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. Cause there's 8,000 horses and like three people.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:47Speaker 00

  So probably not hard to find a suspect.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Any many money mo.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  No, it's, it's not that small, but.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  Not much bigger.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Really not.

• 34:59Speaker 00

  But it, it had to be a, a big deal, right? Once they, they figured this out. Rhodes declared to the crowd, I'm saying today with high confidence, Kathy Sposito was murdered by Brian Scott Bennett.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think he can say that.

• 35:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, you know, we said they had to be elated, but is there also gives maybe a, a tinge of sadness that this guy's dead? And they really can't do anything to him.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure they would love to be able to prosecute him to the fullest.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  And send him away for the rest of his life and lock him up, but they can't do it.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  No, he, he chose to take his own life back then.

• 35:44Speaker 00

  Rhodes also thanked the dedicated volunteers, numerous detectives, and the many partners who give their time and their hearts to solving these cold cases. Four women were given either closure, peace, or validation today.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  That was much needed. They needed that.

• 36:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a big deal. Yavapai County's cold case team is made up of volunteers who spend hours trying to move cases like Kathy's forward. The team of six is overseen by a homicide detective, and they work with experienced investigators to review cold cases. And that's, uh, you know, something I've never actually thought about, you know, a lot of these counties don't have the funds to have a dedicated cold case team.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  I mean, you got volunteers coming in to work. Now, granted, they're overseen by real detectives and all of that, but that would be kind of cool to actually be a volunteer to, to do some of that.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  It would be. You would have to leave your basement. That's the problem.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  They could send the case files here.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Oh, you can be like that, uh, that one movie, they always send the cases.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Where Denzel Washington was paralyzed?

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that was called The Bone Collector.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Bone, that's right.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  It was a good movie. Good movie.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Or whatever her name was back.

• 37:08Speaker 00

  I'm pretty sure that's been her name the entire time.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  Whether she was married to Billy Bob Thornton, Brad Pitt.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:15Speaker 00

  I think it's always been that, hasn't it?

• 37:16Speaker 01

  I think you're right.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  You know, these actors and actresses, they don't change their name.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  No, they, they don't want to lose that star power. A few of them have changed their names. I don't know if it's helped them or not.

• 37:27Speaker 00

  Some of them have, but like Nicole Kidman, she's been married a bunch.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  She's always been Nicole Kidman.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 37:33Speaker 00

  She wasn't Nicole Cruz.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  Or Nicole, whatever the country singer's name was that she was married to.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Isn't she still married to him?

• 37:41Speaker 00

  No, I don't think so.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Oh, they got divorced?

• 37:42Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Oh, Keith Urban.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:46Speaker 00

  Nicole Urban? No, never heard that, right?

• 37:48Speaker 01

  He was much shorter than her. That probably causes some problems.

• 37:51Speaker 00

  Well, most people are. She's like six foot tall.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's a tall woman. Yeah.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  So numerous investigators worked this case, including Sheriff Rhodes, who was on the case in the late 90s and early 2000s. Volunteer Rich Finston told the Arizona Republic that a rotating team of investigators for cold cases can lead to things being missed. So volunteers like him step in to help. He said, when continuity gets lost, things fall into the cracks. And so we kind of find cracks and try to fill them.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:26Speaker 00

  And I understand what he's saying, right? Continuity is a, is a good thing. Um, there's also something to be said for having a fresh set of eyes.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  I love that. Yeah.

• 38:36Speaker 00

  Come in and look at a case. But if you're constantly just having new people try to pick up a file and run with it, do you lose a little bit? Yeah. But also maybe somebody sees something that other people didn't see.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  I think you have to look at it both ways, right?

• 38:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Have that continuity, but also have fresh eyes on it too.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. Speaking to the Arizona Republic for that same article, Sheriff Rhodes explained, there's never a time when full-time paid detectives could spend this amount of time working on cases that are so old because the resources just aren't there. They carry caseloads, they're busy doing things all the time. And so really, I can say with absolute certainty, we would not be here today if it was not for the dedicated, competent work of our volunteers.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Wow, that's awesome that.

• 39:26Speaker 00

  It is amazing.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  Give that credit out there.

• 39:28Speaker 00

  Well, and it's also amazing that, you know, people would use their own time, right? Take up their own time, not get paid, just to try to help out.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  I mean, that's very admirable.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  I feel like there's a whole network of people online that would do that.

• 39:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  As long as.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  And do.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  And do, yeah.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  They just don't always have access to all the case files.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what they really need.

• 39:56Speaker 00

  All of that. Finston was previously a military investigator for the army during the Vietnam War. He has an affinity for numbers. So he became the go-to guy for DNA evidence analysis in Kathy's case. And you also have a, a real affinity for numbers.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  A penchant?

• 40:18Speaker 00

  A penchant for numbers. You're just looking for a place to throw that word in. So you could be the go to guy for a lot of different things.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 40:28Speaker 00

  They wanted you to star on that show numbers.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  They did.

• 40:32Speaker 00

  But you turned it down for some reason.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  They wouldn't get me the unlimited licorice I wanted, so it's like.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  In your trailer?

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  However, there were issues due to DNA connection? Let's go with collection.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Probably collection.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  In evidence handling processes in the late eighties. The wrench that was found on the trail near Kathy's body was believed to have been used during the attack. But there were multiple DNA profiles because another hiker carried it to an officer at the scene.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Ah, see, you hate that.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  You do, but again, you got a hiker out there, but they might think they're helping out.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  And, and they probably don't have the knowledge of, you know, crime scene.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Back then, they wouldn't know what people would know today.

• 41:28Speaker 00

  Oh, you just watch the myriad of shows today and it tells you everything you need to know about a crime scene.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  You see some crime scene stuff, you back away.

• 41:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Unless you had something to do with it, then you don't.

• 41:41Speaker 00

  Then you touch everything.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 41:43Speaker 00

  Right? Vincent explained, when you have multiple contributors, the only thing you can do analytically is develop a likelihood that your suspect touched it. And, you know, that's, that could be really tough.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Can be.

• 41:59Speaker 00

  Might be good fodder for a defense attorney.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  The majority of the DNA on the wrench did belong to Brian Bennett. And he was identified in the 1990 assault that occurred on the same trail at the same time of day and with the same MO. So I think when you look at it that way, yeah, does it have other contributors? Yeah, maybe this guy that picked it up and carried it, you should be able to figure out his DNA.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you can explain that away to a jury if you had to.

• 42:34Speaker 00

  But then it does put Brian Bennett there and it puts him holding the wrench.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  So add that with his, you know, this other assault that occurred on the same trail, same MO, same time of day. That's pretty compelling.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  I think it adds up.

• 42:53Speaker 00

  It does. Vincent said, the compelling body of evidence is the combination of the likelihood of DNA and the circumstantial evidence of the behavior of Brian Bennett. And in the July 1990 and July 1993 attacks, both survivors identified Bennett as the attacker and reported that he threatened to kill them.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  I think that's a big piece right there. When you have witnesses saying that, that was him.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  On top of DNA evidence?

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:25Speaker 00

  I think that's pretty solid. Renee Sandoval, the survivor of the June 1993 attack, also spoke at the August press conference. She spent decades waiting for justice that she thought would never come. She told the Arizona Republic, I haven't had a voice about this in 30 something years. It's time.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Wow, yeah, it is time. I bet she was more than ready to go.

• 43:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, 30 some years. She was only 22 at the time of the attack. She told reporters at the press conference per ABC, this is a long time coming. I want to start by saying, thank you, God. I give you all the glory because he was with me that night. I prayed, he spoke to me, he's the reason that I'm here today. She asked the crowd to pray for all these people that have suffered a crime like this. Pray for those people who never had a voice. Renee also spoke about the connection she felt with Kathy, saying Kathy, you're free. We're always going to be tied together and have a connection. She will be with me until the day I die. And these are interesting quotes.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  They are.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  You, you think about survivors and what they go through, right? 30 some years, waiting to get an answer on who this monster was that attacked you. But then also living with maybe some survivor's guilt that you survived, but Kathy didn't. You know, all of that's going to be tough. There's no easy part of any of this.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  No, even as a survivor, you're worried that whoever did this is still out there. And will they come around the corner one day?

• 45:13Speaker 00

  In the, in the 30 years?

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, you have no idea because you don't know who did it. You could be walking by that person, you could be working with that person.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  Good.

• 45:24Speaker 00

  I, I don't know how you feel safe.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:26Speaker 00

  In a situation like that.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  I don't know if you could.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  Renee said she hoped her words and the identification of Bennett would encourage more survivors to come forward and share their stories. She talked about how she found support from the Sposito family and the other survivors. She said, we don't know each other, but we feel like we do. And it's great for all of us to have that support system of each other. We're connected.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's awesome.

• 45:56Speaker 00

  And sometimes that's, uh, it is awesome, but it's all also, I think, sometimes necessary.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  For sure. Yeah.

• 46:03Speaker 00

  Like there's a bond there.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  And it would almost be impossible to not lean on each other during, you know, these hard times.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Because those people are going to relate.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  You know, and they, they need to have somebody relate at some level.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  All of the cases were closed, except for Kathy's. Her case is not officially closed because there were multiple contributors of DNA. Showed, so the sheriff's office continues to investigate. Sheriff Rhodes said, even though there's an extraordinarily high degree of likelihood that Brian Scott Bennett killed her, we always take new information. Rhodes also said, there may be more than four victims out there. What we know of serious violent predators like this is that it's very unlikely, given their frequency in which he was willing to act, that these are the only four cases that exist.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:03Speaker 00

  And I always think that there's really not many cases that we do that I don't believe the perpetrator has committed more crimes than what the authorities know about.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, same here. I, I always assume that there's many more out there.

• 47:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, now in this case, it, it's not like they could sit down and question Bennett.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  Right? Because he died years ago. But even in cases where they can, I mean, how many of these predators are just going to offer up information that authorities don't already know?

• 47:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:40Speaker 00

  You know, they're confronting them with evidence about X number of cases. Well, who in the world's going to jump up and say, well, yeah, but you haven't said anything about these six other ones that, that I committed or, you know, these six other crimes or however many it might be. There's just nothing in it for them. So I, I often think that most of these people have a, a much longer list of crimes that they've committed than what police know about.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  And I think he would have if he didn't take his life back.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  When he did.

• 48:15Speaker 00

  I think that's true as well.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  It's not like he was going to stop.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  No, I don't think so at all.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  People like that normally don't. If there are more victims, which investigators seem to believe is possible, they have not been named as of 2026, the time that, you know, we're doing this episode. But as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I mean, horrible.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 48:39Speaker 00

  When you're talking about a young 20, early twenties victims, you know, 23 years old, your life is just starting. You know, I, I think about my daughters, their lives are really just getting started.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're just at the very beginning of that.

• 48:59Speaker 00

  My oldest is 25. She finally got her graduate degree. She's got a, a full-time job.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:07Speaker 00

  She's married now, she's buying a house, but that's just the beginning.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:12Speaker 00

  It really is.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Lot more to come from that.

• 49:15Speaker 00

  There is, and it does make me sad that, you know, a woman like Kathy never got to, to go on and live her life, her family not, not only did they lose out on that time with her, but also all of the people that, you know, she might have affected in whatever line of work she chose.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, just, yeah, there's more people, right? Her family, the friends and gosh, I mean, who knows, like you said, what she would have done.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, we don't know what she was going to go into. Maybe she would have done something in education. You think about how many lives she might have touched that could never happen because her life was taken. Yeah, it's just, it's sad, but no doubt this guy was an absolute predator.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, not even a guy, really a boy.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  Well, that's true. He, he was young.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:16Speaker 00

  When, when he, when he first started. But you think about, you know, being out on the trail, you're hiking. You're, you're kind of solitary, right? If you're out there by yourself, but it should be, uh, you're in nature. It should be a good experience and a lot of people find it very cathartic. They love it. It's a stress reliever. And then to think about having this person who is kind of casing this area where people hike.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:45Speaker 00

  And looking for his next victim, that's a scary thought.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  I mean, I know when I hike, I put my earbuds in. Back then I would have put my Walkman on, you know?

• 50:56Speaker 00

  Maybe strapped it to your.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Strapped it to my arm.

• 50:58Speaker 00

  Arm like we used to do back in the day.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  And just hit the trail, you know, and you, you're not going to hear somebody come up behind you and attack you.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. So sad all the way around, but glad that they, they figured it out.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:11Speaker 00

  Right? Now, can they charge this guy? It sounds like no, but he's dead. I don't know what it would accomplish.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:19Speaker 00

  They know it's him.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. But it doesn't sound like they, they really want to move forward. You got multiple DNA profiles on, you know, some of the evidence, but pretty hard not to think that this guy killed Kathy.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:36Speaker 00

  I think everybody believes that.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  But that's it for our episode on Kathy Sposito and another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  And Gibby.

• 51:48Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.