Matima Miller

On July 2, 2021, Quinton Dorsey was hosting a pop-up clothing sale outside his grandmother's home when a gunman approached and executed him in front of family members. Only three days later, on July 5, 2021, Matima Miller, who was friends with Quinton, was gunned down. Investigators thought there was a link, but they had to figure out what it was and who was behind the murders. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murder of 19-year-old Matima "Swavy" Miller, a hugely popular TikTok creator whose dancing and positive personality earned him millions of followers. Although Matima avoided gang life, he became an innocent victim of a violent gang rivalry after befriending local entrepreneur Quinton Dorsey. The case highlights how social media fame, community violence, and gang retaliation collided in a tragic series of events. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 1:54Speaker 00

  Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 514 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you?

• 2:04Speaker 01

  I'm good, man, and you?

• 2:05Speaker 00

  I'm doing great.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  I'm actually doing better than you this week.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are again.

• 2:11Speaker 00

  I don't have a kidney stone the size of Uranus.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Trying to make its way through my body.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Don't know why you had to bring my Uranus in this, but you know.

• 2:20Speaker 00

  I don't know. I thought it'd be funnier than like Saturn or Neptune or Uranus is all is the funniest of all planets. You know.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Well, that's true. That's true.

• 2:29Speaker 00

  Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Eric Plan.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  What's going on, Plans?

• 2:34Speaker 00

  Jessica L.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Hey, Jessica.

• 2:36Speaker 00

  Remington.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  And Remington, that's like a, like a.

• 2:39Speaker 00

  Strong name.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  It is.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Remington.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Pam Simon.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Hey, Pam.

• 2:45Speaker 00

  Shelley Blas.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  What's going on, Shelley?

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Brittany Albright.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Oh, Brittany.

• 2:49Speaker 00

  Cherie Chance.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Well, thanks, Cherie.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  And last but not least, Michelle McDaniel.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Thanks, Double M.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Annette Quisenberry.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  There is Annette.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I actually remember when she signed up because that name jumped out at me.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Do you?

• 3:07Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Exactly the time, date and.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  No.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:11Speaker 00

  No, because it's been a long time ago. We're probably, we're probably in 2019 right now.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Are we?

• 3:17Speaker 00

  In the vault.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:18Speaker 00

  So we're still, uh, pretty far back in time, but I do remember that name.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's not your average last name.

• 3:24Speaker 00

  No, but we appreciate all the Patreon support. Thank you very much. We have an episode right now on, uh, Unsolved that's out. And it's on Kevin Verveal Jr. Just days after his parents brought him home from the hospital. Kevin was abducted by a woman who claimed to be part of an organization that assisted young families. So a very strange, but interesting case and a little different from some of our other unsolved in that there's a very good likelihood that although this case happened over 40 years ago, Kevin is probably out there alive and just has no idea who he really is.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  You know, you think, I think you hope someone listens to a case like this and they hear something that just.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Kind of rings true to them, or

• 4:17Speaker 00

  Or just clicks?

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Clicks, like, you know, that kind of sounds like some questions I've been having about my own life.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, or someone they know.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:26Speaker 00

  And then, um, on Thursday's TCAT, we're talking about Sharon Erickson. She was a retired county worker who was murdered in a very small town in Nebraska. And after the murder, people in this small town started pointing the finger at each other.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Oh, the good old small town.

• 4:48Speaker 00

  Oh, I mean, we're talking small, like 100 people.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's tiny.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All The Time?

• 4:55Speaker 01

  I am.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  We're talking about Matima Miller. 19-year-old Matima Miller, whom millions of people knew by his TikTok nickname, Swavy, was murdered in broad daylight in July 2021. With community support, police quickly identified his killer, who was linked to multiple gang-related crimes. At the time of his death, Matima Miller had 2.3 million followers on TikTok, where he posted under the username @babyface.s. He had another 300,000 followers on Instagram. His fans knew him by the nickname Swavy.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  And it's hard to get followers on TikTok.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  Well, that is a lot.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  That is a lot.

• 5:40Speaker 00

  You've got millions, and then 300,000 on Instagram. And those are really impressive numbers when it comes to followers.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Doing something right there in that social media world.

• 5:53Speaker 00

  Matima Abasi Miller Jr. was born on December 26th, 2001, in Wilmington, Delaware. And Matima spent his whole life in Wilmington. He was always close with his family, who described him as a helpful, active, and sweet little boy. His family recalled how he started dancing when he was still in diapers. Dancing always seemed to come naturally to him.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Just like it does for me.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  You know?

• 6:21Speaker 00

  And it's come full circle, right? Because you started dancing in diapers, and now you're still dancing in diapers. It's done like a full circle 360.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Rex West occasionally.

• 6:36Speaker 00

  I mean, you call him Depends, but it's the same thing.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, sometimes he requires them if it's late evening show.

• 6:44Speaker 00

  Which is 4:30.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Which is 4:30. And he's had a little bit more drink that day than normal. Yeah, yeah, it's possible. You might catch him with something on.

• 6:58Speaker 00

  But I will say you are a hell of a dancer and that's something most people probably would not think about you.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Do they call me Michael Jackson? You know, maybe.

• 7:11Speaker 00

  No, I always think of you as more of a Patrick Swayze in like a Dirty Dancing type role.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I can do those moves, left and right, left, right, right, left.

• 7:24Speaker 00

  So Matima, you know, he was a dancer. He grew up idolizing stars like Michael Jackson. And you know, let's face it, a lot of people did.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Sure they did.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  His brother, Rakim Clark, said Matima was a daredevil who liked doing backflips off of cars, fences and walls.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  And I had a friend that loved doing that. You probably know somebody that liked to do that kind of stuff too. Just randomly doing backflips.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can think of some people who I guess like today it would be like parkour. Maybe they call it parkour.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:57Speaker 00

  Uh, we used to just call it being stupid.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:01Speaker 00

  I was not one of those people because I never wanted to hurt myself and I just had a feeling I probably would.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:09Speaker 00

  But when someone told Matima he couldn't do something, he always wanted to prove them wrong. And I know a lot of people know someone like this.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  Right? The minute, and a lot of our kids are like this, right? The minute you tell them they can't do something, that's when they want to do it more than anything.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  According to his sister, Quenija, she and Rakim have a different father than Matima. Matima's father wasn't in his life, which made him feel like he wasn't good enough. It's tough, right?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  You have siblings who have a different father and let's say their father, you know, is in their lives, your father is not. There's going to be some feelings of inadequacy there.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, because you're, what's wrong with me that he didn't want to be here with?

• 8:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  For me.

• 8:59Speaker 00

  Maybe some jealousy, anger, things like that. When Matima's mother, Moni, started seeing a man named Shannon, he became a father figure to Matima and they developed a close bond. Tragically, Shannon was killed due to gun violence. The loss of a stepfather deeply affected Matima. He went through a difficult time. He began acting out in school and spending more time away from home. This worried Matima's family because drugs and gang violence are persistent problems in Wilmington. And we just talked about how his father wasn't in his life.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  Then, you know, along comes Shannon, who seemed like he was a very positive influence in Matima's life. And then all of a sudden Shannon is murdered.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, stripped out of his life.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  Or killed and, and yeah, like you said, stripped away from his, uh, Matima's life. That had to have been a big blow, right? You had no one is when it comes to a father figure. Then you had this guy who you probably looked up to, and now all of a sudden he's gone.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  The double whammy.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  Matima's sister told the show Deadly Influence, Wilmington, Delaware is known as Killware, Murder Town, USA. Where we live, there's only two ways to go. Either going to be someone positive or you're going to be sucked into your environment and join a gang.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  It's funny, you know, you hear this and you, at least in my arena, when you think of Wilmington, Delaware, you think of all the banks that use that address.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  For their corporation.

• 10:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did not realize that Wilmington, Delaware was a high crime, high murder rate place. I really didn't. Moni tried to protect her kids from this by making sure they stayed in school and taking them to church each Sunday. She encouraged them to get involved in church activities. So Matima joined his church's step dancing team called the Holy Soldiers. Matima enjoyed being part of the group and had a natural talent for step dance.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  You like to step dance?

• 11:16Speaker 00

  I don't know for sure what step dancing is.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Come on, I've seen you do it. You're stepping around to the beat, you know.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Really? That's your definition? Step dancing is stepping around to the beat?

• 11:29Speaker 01

  I mean, it's better than when you used to do the jig thing that you did. That was nowhere near Q. You're just out here doing an Irish jig, or you called it the Scottish jig.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  First of all, anyone who knows me knows that I would never be caught dancing. Not that way, anyway.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. You probably, to be honest, you probably were like a Western two stepper.

• 11:51Speaker 00

  My wife and I did do country line dancing when we were younger.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can see that.

• 11:57Speaker 00

  We had hats and buckles and everything.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  I see the hat right here. It's in the studio.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  There's a couple of hats around. In February 2020, Matima created his TikTok account. He posted his first video on March 3, 2020. He soon started posting regularly, mostly dance videos filmed in his living room, his neighborhood, or in public places. His videos featured trending dance moves, popular dances from various cities, and cultural dances from around the world. He became known for dancing in his crocs.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Crocs. You know, there's a, either I love them or hate them with Crocs. Like, people either gotta have their Crocs, or people are like, those are the most disgusting things ever.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think there's a, it can go either way, but there's probably very little in between.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  You're right. People either love them, can't live without them, or they absolutely hate them. Eventually, Matima started posting comedy sketches that were just as popular with his audience. After just five months on TikTok, he had over 400,000 followers.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  That's not bad.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  That seems like a, like a crazy number.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:12Speaker 00

  Celebrities like Missy Elliott, Snoop Dogg, and Chris Brown took notice of his videos. Matima featured his family in some of his posts. In one video, he pretended his brother Rakim was his dad, but his followers quickly caught on to the joke. Matima became close friends with a boy named Kwan, who found his account and realized they went to the same school. They started hanging out and soon became inseparable. They filmed videos together and Matima became a social media mentor to him. Kwan considered Matima's brother and said, "He was funny, goofy, caring. He would always be there for my rescue."

• 13:56Speaker 00

  And, you know, let's face it, there are a lot of people in the last 10 years or so who have made a lot of money on YouTube, TikTok, things like that, or have thought that they could and at least tried it. I mean, there are young kids right now who believe that's going to be their life goal.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Well, I, I, believe me, I, I know. My, uh, my son Chase, he's on TikTok. He has like 700,000 followers and, uh, it just kinda started out as him cooking. And now he has all these followers and it's not what he's, you know, where his way to fund his life is.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Right. He just does it as kind of a side thing.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's kind of just taken off now. Now he's just trying to get to a million because that's what you do, right? If you hit a, you first want to hit 100,000, you hit 100,000, you want to hit 500,000, now you want to hit a million.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Subscribers, so, or followers, whatever it is.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  Well, and he's a good-looking cat.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's not bad looking. I mean, obviously he didn't.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  I mean, he is a, he is a Gibby.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Well, he is. He is definitely a Gibby. Just taller, longer, more hair.

• 15:06Speaker 00

  Longer hair. He's got like a Thor looking hairdo.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:11Speaker 00

  California blondish.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  It just, he has a weird TikTok. It's him cooking. It's, but a lot of people go there for the comments. So, shut up, Chase.

• 15:20Speaker 00

  I'm not, I'm not on TikTok. I don't really understand TikTok, but I do watch a lot of shorts on YouTube, which I believe pretty much come from TikTok. So I kind of get it now.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. They can be quite addictive.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  We do have a TikTok channel though.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  We do.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 00

  We don't really post anything on it, but we do have one.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, go check it out.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  I don't know what to put on there. As Matima's fan base group, his brother Rakim helped him monetize his TikTok account. Matima earned around $80,000 from TikTok in just a few months. That is a boatload of money.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  It is. I think it's harder to monetize like that today because so many people do it.

• 16:03Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Um, obviously you can still monetize and make good money, but I mean, it'd be great if you could make that type of money out of the gate, you know, with a few hundred thousand followers.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  Well, after nine months on TikTok, he had over a million followers.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  Although he was a social media star, Matima was still a normal teenage boy who enjoyed hanging out with his friends. He was conscious of gang activity in his neighborhood and tried to stay as safe as possible. He wasn't involved in gangs in any way, but a local gang was targeting one of his friends. This gang once shot at Matima and his friends, but no one was harmed. This was Matima's first time witnessing a shooting up close and he became even more conscious about staying safe. You know what will make you more conscious about your safety? Being shot at.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  I never have. Knock on wood.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  Well, you haven't, but you did have a bullet come through your house.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  I did. So we weren't home at the time, but it was a little scary to discover after the fact.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely. See, some people would say they survived a drive by.

• 17:13Speaker 00

  Maybe. It was just one though. Can you call that a drive by? Just one.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  How you tell the story?

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true. That's true. I could really play it up, I guess, if I wanted to.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Matima's mother, Moni, found a gun in the house. She explained that she was angry with Matima because she didn't want weapons in the home. She asked him to get rid of it, and he did. She didn't think much of it after that, but figured he had the gun for protection. Well, if you're getting shot at, yeah, maybe you do have one if you can legally own it. Matima started to treat his social media accounts as a full-time job. He wanted to earn more money so he could move himself and his family out of Wilmington. He dreamed of buying a house in Atlanta and moving his loved ones to the city. And I get it, man. If you're in a, in an area that is heavily gang-infested, you've already been shot at

• 18:11Speaker 00

  once, and you are making pretty good money.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  I could see a dream of maybe moving somewhere else, a little safer, a little nicer. So he started doing collaborations with other creators and traveling around the country to make videos. He also had a goal of creating a YouTube channel and monetizing that account. And monetize anything you can.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Well, that's the name of the game.

• 18:38Speaker 00

  Matima began collaborating with 22-year-old Quentin Dorsey, a Wilmington local who owned his own clothing brand. This guy owns his own clothing brand at 22 years old.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  At 22, I'm pretty sure I was pushing carts at Walmart.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Trying to remember what I was doing at 22.

• 18:57Speaker 00

  I might have been a manager at Walmart by that time, but at one point I was pushing carts.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Think I might have been at UPS. One of, one of the probably handful of jobs I had at that time.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  Besides being a male escort?

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Slash entertainer.

• 19:12Speaker 00

  Deuce, you were like the original Deuce Bigelow.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Oh, love that movie, man.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, he hasn't done a lot of, a lot of good movies, but that one's pretty funny.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  It's, you don't have to think to watch it. You just laugh because it's so stupid.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  It's not highbrow. That, that's for sure.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:30Speaker 00

  Quentin Dorsey lost his father to gun violence and his mother died of a heart attack. Although his childhood was difficult, he grew up to be a happy and successful young man. Quentin was raised by his grandmother, Deborah Cleveland, until he was 13. At that point, he moved in with his aunt Tanya. In 2019, shortly after graduating high school, Quentin started a clothing brand called Bag Season. He started off by pressing and tie dyeing T-shirts in his basement. He later expanded his clothing line to include hoodies, tracksuits, shorts, and socks. According to his grandmother, he picked himself up from the bootstraps.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Go get her.

• 20:16Speaker 00

  Man, I tell you what, I have a lot of respect for people like this.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:20Speaker 00

  You know, to, to start something from scratch and to work really hard to build it and to have it pay off. That is a really good feeling.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Entrepreneurship at the best.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think this guy went through a lot. He could have gone a number of different directions, but there's no doubt he decided to stay very positive and do something good with his life. And it was said that many people in Wilmington wore Bag Season clothes. Quentin did pop-up shops on Saturdays and typically made a few thousand dollars each weekend.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Even on the weekends, he was a go-getter, right? He could have been doing anything else, but he's like, I'm gonna do a pop-up and I'm gonna sell my stuff and make some money.

• 21:07Speaker 00

  Where most kids his age probably would have been at home playing video games or whatever.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Or still in bed.

• 21:12Speaker 00

  Or still in bed. Quentin became the main provider for his siblings and family. His family said that his dedication to his business kept him from getting involved in gangs or drugs, which is why they were shocked that he was later targeted by a gang. In 2021, Quentin started giving Matima Miller Bag Season clothes to wear in his videos. At first, their relationship was just business, but the two young men developed a bond. Quentin Dorsey was fatally shot in Wilmington's East Side neighborhood on July 2nd, 2021. That day, Quentin visited his grandmother and was hosting a pop-up shop outside her house.

• 21:56Speaker 00

  Deborah Cleveland and several of her grandchildren were near her front steps when a man approached Quentin, drew a gun to the left side of his head and pulled the trigger. And it was said, Gibbs, that the impact lifted Quentin into the air and sent his body crashing to the ground, and he was dead by the time he hit the ground.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  That's a pretty high caliber gun then, right?

• 22:20Speaker 00

  Well, it sounds like it. I mean, obviously, he was pretty close, so that had something to do with it. But I can't even imagine, Gibbs, right? Deborah's out there, you know, there's other people out there, some of her grandchildren, and to watch this happen right in front of you, to someone you love, it's unimaginable. I mean, it's hard enough to think about finding out that someone you love has been murdered, but to see it happen right in front of you.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  No way.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  It'd be hard to, to live through for sure. The bullet went through the front window into the room where Deborah's husband and other grandchildren were sitting. People began to run. As the gunman fled the scene, Deborah recalled to the news drone, "I know Quentin is dead. I'm watching him bleed out, brains and blood, then a crowd of people grabbing me." Deborah told police she could identify the killer and picked 18-year-old Israel LaCombe. From a photo lineup, hours after the shooting, LaCombe was affiliated with the North Pack gang in Wilmington.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  18 years old. Man, but that's not uncommon with some of these gangs, 18-year-old, 16-year-old.

• 23:36Speaker 00

  Unfortunately, they can get involved. People can with the gangs pretty young. Apparently, Quentin was standing in front of her before he was shot and asked the shooter if he was really going to do this in front of his grandmother. The shooter replied, "Fuck your grandma," and then shot him. I mean, that is cold-blooded.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. It really is.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  One family member who asked not to be named told the news journal, they believe the motive for the murder was envy over Quentin's success. Matima Miller was saddened by the loss of his friend and everyone in the community was worried because the shooter hadn't been caught yet. And then just three days later, Matima was murdered. On the morning of July 5th, 2021, Matima and his friend Kwan went to a nearby McDonald's to get breakfast. Kwan recalled that on the drive home, Matima told him, "I love you, bro, and I got a plan. I'm gonna move us out to Atlanta this or next week." They returned to Matima's house and started walking inside when a man in a red hoodie

• 24:44Speaker 00

  approached and shot Matima in the chest three times. Matima tried to grab the weapon, but he wasn't fast enough. The gunman immediately ran away. Kwan ran inside the house to get Matima's mother, Moni. She ran outside and saw Matima face down on the ground. He was still alive, but was gasping for air. He was quickly transported to the hospital and his mother wasn't allowed to ride with him. By the time she got there, she was told that Matima had died. I mean, these are both very difficult situations. Yeah. I do want to go back to the murder of Quentin. You know, this thought that people were envious of his success.

• 25:29Speaker 00

  And maybe we're going to find out that it's similar here with Matima. You know, that can be a big problem, especially for young people, right? If you're 18 years old and you're seeing another 18-year-old who you know who's blowing up on social media, they've got their own clothing line, now these people are making all this money, they're becoming quasi-famous, that can be hard for some people to handle.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  And it's strange for me because you think instead of being jealous or envious or whatever, right? You should be happy. These are two guys that are doing really well, probably going to be able to get away from the neighborhood, but they are on their way up and out, are probably going to lift some people up with them. And you would want to encourage that.

• 26:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Be like, you know, we don't want that happening. Let's make sure we knock these people down.

• 26:26Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, how much of it has to do with being in this gang? And I think we're going to find out, right? But that's gotta be a contributing factor. Hours after the shooting, social media condolences poured in on Matima's pages. Matima posted his last video on TikTok late on July 4th or early on July 5th. Fans had already identified Matima as the victim of the shooting before even the police did. According to the family, Kwan was the sole witness to the shooting, but he didn't want to tell the police what he saw. In his interview for the show Deadly Influence, Kwan explained that he was scared and didn't want to be the

• 27:09Speaker 00

  next target for going to the police. And I don't know how much you can blame this guy.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  I don't think you can. I mean, he has a good reason to, based on the fact that two people are now dead.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  And he has every right to think that, you know, if he tells what he saw, he's gonna be next.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  If they're willing to shoot these guys in broad daylight with witnesses, what's gonna stop them from killing him? Nothing.

• 27:38Speaker 00

  Nothing, right? They don't care. They're not even trying to hide their identity.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:45Speaker 00

  People are identifying them, you know, shortly after the shooting. So you want to think, okay, if you saw it, you want to tell the police everything that you saw, you want to help solve the murder. But on the flip side of that, you know, at some point, do you have to be worried about your own safety? And I think this guy certainly did have to factor that in. You know, I talked about people being envious of other's success. And I think that's probably true here with Quentin and Matima. But you know what else people don't like, especially gang members? They don't like people who rat others out.

• 28:27Speaker 00

  There's a lot of criminals who don't like that.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  It's kind of like crime 101, right? You're not supposed to rat out the bad guys.

• 28:33Speaker 00

  Over the following days, the Wilmington Police Department was inundated with calls asking for updates on the investigation. Local residents also came together to solve the murders of two prominent young men in the city. And that's one thing I don't want to lose sight of. You know, we're talking about these two guys, and they seem to be on the right path.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  And we talked about Quentin pulling himself up from what seemed to be, you know, a pretty bad set of circumstances. But he was doing amazingly, had started his own company. And, you know, Matima was on his way, right? Had a lot of fans, was making some money. I mean, I think you could easily say that these guys had a very bright future ahead of them. They're also staying away from that gang lifestyle.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, they've chose a different path, and that path has proven to be successful for them up until the point that they're murdered.

• 29:36Speaker 00

  But it's also hard for me not to believe that their success had something to do with the murders. With the help of local residents, police put together a timeline of a crime spree that began on July 1st, 2021. That day, a black Nissan Maxima with tinted windows was stolen in the area. That same vehicle was seen nearby during the shootings of Quentin Dorsey and Matima Miller. Authorities determined that the shell casings at both crime scenes matched, and witnesses at both shootings reported that the killer was wearing a red bag season hoodie, which was Quentin's brand. So, I mean, they're getting a lot of information, a lot of good information.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  You have this black Nissan Maxima stolen, but seen at both shootings. And then, once you determine that the shell casings at both crime scenes match, pretty much denotes that the same gun was used.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  Now, you can infer that it's the same killer that is also strengthened by this report that the killer was wearing this red bag season hoodie.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  I mean, this is good stuff for the police.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  It really is. I think the questions that I would have is, okay, these two guys then it sounds like were targeted. But why? Was it solely because of their success and somebody was jealous? And what's the significance of the killer actually wearing a bag season hoodie? I mean, it's just all stuff that the, the police are gonna have to try to figure out on top of who the actual shooter is.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:27Speaker 00

  Matima's mother, Moni pleaded with Quan to speak to the police and tell them what he saw. He agreed. First, he sent Matima's brother, Rakim, an Instagram photo of a man he identified as the shooter. Rakim forwarded this information to the police. Matima's killer was identified as Israel LaCombe, the same person who Quentin Dorsey's grandmother identified as his shooter. And that doesn't surprise me at all. Right? We talked about matching shell casings, matching car, the same red hoodie. Well, if LaCombe is identified as the first

• 32:08Speaker 00

  shooter, very likely he's the, the shooter of Matima as well.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it just tracks that way.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  Surveillance footage captured a man believed to be LaCombe at various crime scenes in the distinctive red hoodie. LaCombe's social media showed him in the same bag season hoodie. And I'm telling you, social media is great, but it can also come back to bite you in the ass.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  It can. And we've done some cases, um, over the last year that it, it kind of went in the, uh, against the killer.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. With things that you, at the time, I'm sure thought were innocuous.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:50Speaker 00

  Right? They didn't matter. Not that big a deal. Okay. I posted a picture of me in this outfit. Well, if you later wear that outfit to commit a murder or murders, it's going to most likely become a big deal.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:06Speaker 00

  La Compte was arrested on July 10th, 2021, and we said it, right? But he was part of this North Pack gang, which was responsible for numerous crimes in Wilmington. In May 2021, 14 young men and teenagers were indicted on more than 120 criminal charges, including murder stemming from their involvement in the North Pack Street gang.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Man, that's a, that's a healthy amount of crimes going on.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  It is. You know, some of these street gangs are extremely violent though. It was said that these crimes occurred between November 2018 and April 2021, and at least six people were killed. Half of the 14 suspects were indicted on murder charges. The ages of the people indicted ranged from 15 to 23 years old.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  I mean, to be indicted at the age of 15, where's your life go from there? I mean, really, from 15 to 23, where does your life go? But at 15, wow.

• 34:14Speaker 00

  You know, that's the thing. These gangs, they recruit kids at a very young age.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  And have them doing very adult stuff, right? At a young age.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  That's true. I mean, these kids idolize these guys, right? They think the gang life is really cool. They see, you know, fast money, you know, cars.

• 34:39Speaker 00

  And maybe just, uh, they want to belong to something.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, sometimes that's true.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  For some people.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, people just feel, have the need to feel like they belong. That's why you belong to the polka dance society. I know that. It helps you.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, it has nothing to do with polka. I just need a friend every now and then.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And let's not forget, you do have a love for that accordion thing.

• 35:02Speaker 00

  Well, you know, there's not many places to show off your accordion skills.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Yes, you are good at it.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  On November 8th, 2021, Israel LaCombe was indicted on 38 felony charges, including two counts of first degree murder, 10 counts of possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony, three counts of robbery, and one count of illegal gang participation. 38 felony charges.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a healthy amount of charges right there.

• 35:33Speaker 00

  I mean, even if some of those are dropped.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:37Speaker 00

  You're still looking at, if convicted for any of them, you're looking at a long time.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, you got two counts of first degree murder buried in that.

• 35:45Speaker 00

  Sure. I mean, those are the two biggies. On November 18th, Rakim Clark posted on Instagram about the toll the loss of his brother had taken on him. He said, "A coward took a part of my soul away from me. No reasoning can justify why Tima's life was cut short. You gained nothing from it. Nothing but malice, envy, and darkness could drive someone to take an innocent person's life like that. My brother wasn't in no gang. He was just following his dreams and living his life." And I got to be honest with you, I mean, it's very well written and very emotional.

• 36:27Speaker 00

  It's hard not to get emotional when you think about, you know, this guy writing this about his brother.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:35Speaker 00

  And the loss that he's experiencing. And he's right. What was gained from these murders?

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 36:43Speaker 00

  Nothing was taken, but the lives of these two young men, the shooters gained absolutely nothing from it.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  No, but you took away these individuals from their loved ones, family, community. You know, they were doing good out there. They weren't doing bad.

• 37:02Speaker 00

  You know, and sometimes some of these gangs have like initiation rights.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:07Speaker 00

  And sometimes the, the price to get in is to kill someone.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:13Speaker 00

  I mean, I don't understand the mindset, but truthfully, I've never been in the situation, right, that many of these young people were, were probably in. I still don't think I would do it, but it's easy for me to say in this air conditioned studio right now, having not had to live that life.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, if we were on the streets, didn't have anything and were struggling, maybe we would see it differently.

• 37:40Speaker 00

  Maybe, you know, I don't know.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  I don't think I would, but I can say that.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Cause I don't know any better.

• 37:46Speaker 00

  I'm with you. You don't want to think you would do that.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:50Speaker 00

  But here's the thing, right? Quentin and Matima, they didn't have it great. They went through a lot in their lives. They lived in the same town. They could have easily joined a gang, but they didn't. Why? Cause they didn't want to go that route.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  No, they wanted to be something different, more than that.

• 38:10Speaker 00

  And they were making something of themselves that these other people could have done as well, but they chose to go the gang route. So it's hard to say that it's inescapable. Now, are you more likely to join a gang if your, your, your life starts out a certain way? Yeah, possibly.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  But it doesn't mean you have to. And I think these guys were, were living proof of that.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  I, I think they were inspirational to many. And I, I just wish like these gang members would have seen that, like, you know, they're not bad. They're inspirational for the, for the community and we should view that as a good thing.

• 38:52Speaker 00

  I mean, that's the way you and I think, right? It's kind of hard for us to understand how. Others thing. Yeah. In, in some of these situations. In honor of what would have been Matima's 20th birthday in December 2021, his family set up a GoFundMe account to raise money for a scholarship in his honor called Swavy Shining Youth Scholarship Foundation. According to an Instagram post by the family, "Our hope is that this scholarship will continue Matima's legacy and create many opportunities for dreamers just like him to increase their academic achievement and assist in their overall success." And that's a great thing. And it happens quite a bit, right?

• 39:36Speaker 00

  Where the family is trying to make something good happen out of this horrific tragedy. And they want to do something good in the name of their lost loved one. In March 2022, Israel LaCombe was charged in connection with a quadruple shooting in the Knollwood community of Claymont that killed two people and injured two more. He was indicted for murder, assault, attempted robbery, conspiracy, and several firearms charges. The shooting occurred on July 14th, 2021. LaCombe and 16-year-old Jazir Brown conspired to rob 27-year-old Nathan Smith.

• 40:20Speaker 00

  During the robbery, LaCombe shot Smith and a 19-year-old woman who was with him. Smith died at a hospital and the woman suffered non-life-threatening injuries. Jazir Brown was also killed in the robbery. It was unclear who shot him. LaCombe later showed up at the hospital with non-life-threatening injuries. According to witnesses who spoke with the news journal, LaCombe and Brown were trying to rob Smith of marijuana. So. I mean, i- it's hard to say anything good about Israel LaCombe.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  No, he, he just wanted to hurt people.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  And take things or again, the case of Quentin and Matima, it doesn't sound like he took anything. He just wanted to kill them.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Here, it does sound like maybe he wanted to rob this guy of some marijuana. He ends up killing the guy, shoots the girl, but she lives. And some how his buddy is shot, but it's unsure whether he shot him or one of the victims. I wouldn't be surprised if Israel shot him too in the commotion.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, might have.

• 41:31Speaker 00

  Of the whole thing.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  This is definitely some guy that shouldn't be walking around on the streets.

• 41:37Speaker 00

  No, I don't see this as a person, you know, who you slap on the wrist and say, you know, don't do these things again. No, this person needs to spend a very, very long time incarcerated.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  For what they've done, they have killed multiple people. And to me, Gibbs, they don't show any signs of stopping.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:02Speaker 00

  Unless they're stopped and put away.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  And at such a young age, where's it gonna go?

• 42:08Speaker 00

  It's probably just gonna get worse.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  On October 20th, 2023, Israel LaCombe was sentenced to 27 years in prison for the murder of Nathan Smith in what prosecutors described as a botched robbery that led to the death of Smith and Jaseer Brown. The sentencing occurred after LaCombe pleaded guilty to second degree murder, assault, attempted robbery, and a weapons charge. Prosecutors detailed the events leading up to the fatal shooting. LaCombe and multiple others carjacked to Chevy Impala. On a Wednesday in July in Chester, Pennsylvania, they drove around Wilmington, looking to shoot rival gang members

• 42:53Speaker 00

  before heading to Claymont and the Knollwood community with the intent to rob Nathan Smith. Smith was armed and a gunfight broke out that killed Smith and Brown. Deputy Attorney General John Downs asked the judge to go beyond the minimum mandatory sentence required by the plea deal. He noted that LeComte had a challenging life, but he was also given court ordered interventions and treatment and still returned to a life of carjackings, robberies, and shootings. LeComte displayed a lack of remorse and suggested he only pleaded guilty because his DNA was found at the crime scene and because he was shot.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Well, I think, one, it's the life he knew is why he kept on going back to it. He didn't know anything more than that.

• 43:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, that's entirely possible. But also, I don't think he was going to change that life anytime soon unless made to.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, he wasn't going to do it because someone told him he should clean up his life.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  In mitigation, LeComte's attorney told the court that he had shown remorse and didn't go out with the intention of killing anyone. LeComte had a long history of trauma and underdeveloped intellect. LeComte addressed Nathan Smith's family. He apologized and took responsibility for the crime, but said he didn't set out to hurt Smith. He simply said, "Stuff went wrong." He promised to use his time in prison to better himself. What are you gonna say at that point?

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:33Speaker 00

  Gibbs? But, you know, "Stuff went wrong"? Okay. That's like you were putting together a display at the end of an aisle at Walmart of glass jars of pickles, and you knocked one over that knocked the whole thing over and everything broke. Hey, stuff went wrong.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  That's right. Shit went down.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  But that's not what you say when two people are murdered in a botched marijuana robbery.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 45:02Speaker 00

  I get it. Technically, stuff did go wrong, but that you're trivializing it so much that it sounds bizarre.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  And insincere.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would say that as well. And, you know, I promised that I'm gonna better myself in prison. Hey, that's great if you do.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 45:21Speaker 00

  But, you know, if I'm the family, I'm like, I just want you to go away and be punished.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't care what you do when you're in prison.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  I hope you better yourself, but on April 4th, 2024, Israel was found guilty of the murders of Matima Miller and Quentin Dorsey. He was also convicted of multiple other charges related to a non-fatal shooting and multiple robberies in the summer of 2021. The trial lasted three weeks. As mentioned earlier, in the spring of 2021, dozens of members of the North Pack gang were indicted for gang participation, murders, and other crimes. According to the News Journal, throughout various trials, prosecutors showed that the North Pack gangs feud with other groups of young men in the city was the motive for the crimes

• 46:11Speaker 00

  that occurred from 2018 to the summer of 2021. A state gang expert and young men associated with the gang testified that North Pack members wanted to taunt or harm other gang-affiliated teens in the city and to build a reputation on social media.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  Well, that's how you you do that, right? You intimidate and you taunt your competition, in this case, other gangs.

• 46:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get that as far as the gang lifestyle. But I didn't know that gangs were big on pumping themselves up on social media. It seems to me that if you're in a criminal enterprise, you would maybe want to stay a little bit low key.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  You would think. Well, I guess nowadays, you know.

• 47:01Speaker 00

  All press is good press?

• 47:03Speaker 01

  I guess.

• 47:04Speaker 00

  Or all social media is, uh...

• 47:08Speaker 00

  Attention is good. I don't know if you're out there robbing and killing. Doesn't seem like you want to bring that type of attention to yourself. But I think why this is so important is that prosecutor said that with several of his associates in prison, LaComte wanted to keep North Pack on the offense. He considered it a score for the gang if he killed Matima Miller and Quentin Dorsey, who were successful local celebrities.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  I just don't get that.

• 47:40Speaker 00

  I don't either, but you know, if you look at it from his point of view, which is kind of hard to do because to be honest with you, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but he's wanting to build what? The gang's rep and it's going to grow if he kills these two celebrities?

• 48:01Speaker 00

  Again, doesn't make sense to me. On June 9th, LaComte was involved in a shooting at a North Wilmington Park. The targets were associates of a rival gang in the wrong territory. Instead, the shooting wounded a 12 and a 16 year old. Evidence showed LaComte was the shooter. He was also involved in the theft of multiple cars, including the cars spotted at the Dorsey and Miller murders. A woman in Newcastle reported her car stolen on June 30th, 2021. Her car was out of gas and had an ignition lock that activated after the carjacker parked it at a Wawa store in Claymont.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Surveillance video from inside the gas station showed LaComte buying fuel with his Apple Pay app. Surveillance footage showed him leading others to a nearby housing development where another car was stolen by threat of force. The car was found in Philadelphia in the same lot where a black Nissan Maxima was stolen the following day. The car had distinctive black rims, window tint and a rear spoiler. A digital record showed that LaComte's phone connected to the audio system in the Nissan minutes after it was stolen. His fingerprints were also found in the car.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  I guess he didn't wipe those down and remove his smartphone from the car.

• 49:32Speaker 00

  But this is so wild because it just sounds like they're stealing or carjacking cars to drive somewhere where they do it again, get another car, go somewhere else, steal another car. I mean, you think about the car thefts, the shootings that this guy was involved in. Gibbs, this guy was a real menace to society. There's, there's no other way to say it.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  No, he really was. He was not a good guy, regardless of what happened in his childhood.

• 50:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, or his past. And I get it. People have difficult past, but that's why I've made so much out of Quentin and Matima's stories. Cause they had difficulties.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  Growing up, right? They had obstacles to overcome. A lot of people have that. It doesn't mean that you have to resort to joining a gang, that you have to resort to a life of crime. And to me, I don't know how you can use it as an excuse. I really don't.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  If anything, maybe this guy was jealous or just thought it was unfair that these guys took their hardship.

• 50:48Speaker 00

  Made something.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, made something good, but yeah, he couldn't. So if I can't, how dare you?

• 50:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, maybe that's part of it, but I also think there was an element where, you know, he saw these guys as celebrities and he thought that this was going to elevate the reputation of the gang.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. And him.

• 51:12Speaker 00

  And him.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  And they do, you know, I think some gangs and members of gangs have that.

• 51:18Speaker 00

  Mindset.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Mindset.

• 51:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. Unfortunately, I think they do. The owner of the vehicle identified it in the surveillance footage recorded near the time and location of the Dorsey and Miller murders. The jury heard that Quentin Dorsey's grandmother identified LaComte in a photo lineup on the day of the shooting. A gang member witness corroborated her testimony that the shooter said, fuck your grandma before killing Quentin. Three witnesses who were associates of LaComte told authorities that he bragged about the killings.

• 51:56Speaker 00

  Days after the Dorsey murder, LaComte robbed two people, including a 12-year-old of his socks. Who in the hell was robbing people for socks?

• 52:07Speaker 01

  I don't know, you know?

• 52:10Speaker 00

  Maybe this guy had really, really small feet. I don't know. That he needed a 12-year-old socks. But it was said that he was wearing a red and black hoodie and driving a black car. LaComte was seen wearing a red back season hoodie. In an Instagram live post, the day of the robberies. A relative of the 12-year-old victim went looking for LaComte and found him right away. LaComte fired shots, but nobody was injured. The shell casings from the shooting matched those at the Dorsey crime scene. And once again, witnesses saw a black Nissan fleeing the scene. The Nissan was captured by surveillance footage near the scene of Matima Miller's murder

• 52:54Speaker 00

  in the Southbridge neighborhood of Wilmington. It seems to me, Gibbs, that they have no shortage of evidence right against this LaComte guy.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  No, he's the definition of a menace to society.

• 53:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I feel like if you looked up that term, they should have put this guy's picture next to it.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 00

  That's just, no definition needed. Just put his picture. Matima's best friend Quant confirmed that LaComte was the shooter and picked him out of a photo police lineup. Gang associates also relayed incriminating conversations about the Miller shooting. The black Nissan was found near Claymont after LaComte and an associate stole a red sedan. In the red sedan, LaComte and others unsuccessfully fired on rival gang members in Wilmington. LaComte crashed the car during a police chase and left his phone inside the vehicle before he was arrested. Evidence from his cell phone, including texts, that could be interpreted as bragging about the crime.

• 54:00Speaker 00

  So, again, tons of evidence against him. Some of this was due to his own kind of incompetence.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:09Speaker 00

  Right? He left behind a bunch of incriminating evidence when he left his phone.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 00

  The other thing is, obviously, this guy only had one gun. Cause he used the same gun at every shooting. The shell casings all matched.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Makes the forensics for the police pretty easy.

• 54:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just, I don't think he was trying to cover anything up.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  I don't think he cared.

• 54:33Speaker 00

  He wasn't hiding his face. He was shooting people in front of crowds of other people. There's no doubt he had a very low appreciation for life.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:46Speaker 00

  Including his own.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 54:48Speaker 00

  I don't think he cared much about his own life. The defense emphasized discrepancies in witness statements, noting that some witnesses didn't immediately identify LaCombe as the shooter and admitted that they had done research on social media about the killings. And maybe some of those witnesses, like Kwan, didn't come forward right away because they were scared to death.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Rightfully so.

• 55:13Speaker 00

  And rightfully so. In October 2024, Israel LaCombe received two life sentences plus 163 years.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, good.

• 55:24Speaker 00

  Those are healthy sentences.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:26Speaker 00

  And very well deserved. In total, the prosecution of the North Pack gang defendants resulted in six life sentences and an additional 400 years of prison time, according to Attorney General Kathy Jennings. All I know is there's a lot of people who were associated with this North Pack gang, who are going to be seeing only the inside of a prison for a very long time, possibly including the rest of their lives.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  And to me, let's face it, Israel LaCombe definitely deserves to be one of those people. As we wrap this one up, Gibbs, the murders of Matima Miller and Quentin Dorsey, they were devastating and shocking to their friends and families. Neither young man was involved in gang activity, but they became the targets of the North Pack gang. Prosecutors believe that Matima was executed because of his friendship with Quentin Dorsey. Lead prosecutor Joe Grubb explained in an interview for the show Deadly Influence, "We think Israel LaCombe wanted to go out and prove his worth to his fellow gang members,

• 56:41Speaker 00

  so he went on a 10-day crime spree and took it upon himself to rob, shoot, steal, and promote the gang continuously on Instagram."

• 56:52Speaker 01

  I don't think this, the comp cares if he's in prison or not, though. That's the thing. I, I, I think it probably didn't impact him the way it would most, being sent off to prison for the rest of your life.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  Well, he certainly didn't act as though prison was a big deterrent.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:11Speaker 00

  You know, like I said, he didn't cover his face. He didn't try to get away really with any of these things. It just seemed like for this 10 day stretch, he was doing pretty much anything he wanted with very little disregard for human life, property, and even his own outcome.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  And for me, you know, if I was the prison warden, somebody like him coming into my prison? Kind of scary because at a young age, he's already committed all this.

• 57:48Speaker 00

  He's going to be there for a very long time.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  And what does he have to lose to do anything in there? He's already got two life sentences. So what's?

• 57:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  How are you going to deter him from doing anything bad in prison?

• 58:00Speaker 00

  I think there are probably a lot of people in the prison much batter than him.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure. Yeah.

• 58:09Speaker 00

  And they are going to deter him because he doesn't want to get his ass beat.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure they're going to school him pretty quick.

• 58:17Speaker 00

  That's my thought.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  There's a lot of things that I do not want to do in my life.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:23Speaker 00

  Probably number one on the top of that list is go to prison.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  I think there's a lot of people who have that same list. Yeah.

• 58:30Speaker 00

  I don't consider myself a wimp, but I certainly don't consider myself a badass either. And do not feel as though it would be fun to have to fight my way through life every day in prison.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. You'd have to do that, you know?

• 58:49Speaker 00

  He, he might have to.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  For, for your meal, for your.

• 58:52Speaker 00

  Especially at 53 years old, I don't want to have to be fighting dudes all day. But man, I can't say it enough. This was one bad guy. I mean, I know there was a whole gang and other bad people as well, but obviously we spent most of our time talking about Israel LaCombe. He was, and you said it, I just don't think he cared about anything. To commit all these crimes and to kind of promote them on Instagram does not seem like the smartest thing to do, but he's where he belongs.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 59:30Speaker 00

  No doubt about it. That's it for our episode on Matima Miller. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out? Let's hear it.

• 59:36Speaker 02

  Hey, what's up guys? It's Tats and Cat. I got two stories that can relate to both of you guys. Gibby, one time when I was in high school, messing around with some batteries. Teacher said, put them away. I turned around, I don't know why, put them in a microwave. I was like, I was gonna get these at class. Come the next day in class, teacher was freaking out. I'd forgotten I left the batteries in the microwave. At the time, I didn't know something bad would happen if you left batteries in the microwave, but I do now. As you can see, I pulled a Gibby. Mike, I was talking and dating this girl. Valentine's Day came up. I got her gifts. Helped me after I gave it to her. Can relate, brother. Well, it's our loss and yeah. Keep up what you guys are doing. I love it. Stay safe. Keep your own time ticking, guys.

• 1:00:18Speaker 00

  I love the voicemail. He obviously listens closely to what we're talking about.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  Sounds like it.

• 1:00:25Speaker 00

  Man, there's, I don't know. It's a bad, bad feeling when you, you think you're in love with someone, you get them something nice for Valentine's Day, and then either right then or shortly after they dump your ass. It's not a good feeling.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  No. Sorry that happened to you.

• 1:00:44Speaker 00

  But he's right. It's their loss.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  It is their loss. And sometimes people do put batteries in microwaves and forget that they put them in there. Cause where are you going to store batteries?

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  Maybe he didn't like that teacher.

• 1:01:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  And Gibby.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.