Janet Abaroa

On April 26, 2005, 25-year-old Janet Abaroa was found stabbed to death inside her Durham, North Carolina home. Investigators quickly focused on her husband, Raven Abaroa, but it would take years and a surprising piece of evidence before charges were filed. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Janet Abaroa. As the investigation progressed, it was clear that Raven was not a good guy. He admitted to numerous affairs, and various women came forward with stories of abuse and womanizing. But the case against him was thin, and even at trial, it was clear this was not going to be an easy prosecution. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Every good true crime story has a twist. DraftKings Casino has a spin. Flex spins let you spin your way. Didn't see that coming? That's because flex spins are exclusive to DraftKings. New casino players pay $5 and get 1,000 total flex spins, including 100 lightning link spins. Unlock 50 spins a day at varying values for the first 20 days. You decide where the story goes next. Download the DraftKings Casino app. Sign up with code TCAD and spin your way. The crown is yours. In partnership with DraftKings Casino. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. 21+, physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia only. Void in Canada. Eligibility restrictions apply. Non-withdrawable spins issued at 50 spins per day for 20 days. Valid for select games only and expire each day after 24 hours. Spins values vary. See terms at casino.draftkings.com/promos. Ends November 22, 2026 at 11:59 PM Eastern Time.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 508 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?

• 2:05Speaker 00

  I am doing great, man. I'm feeling rested. You and I are both coming. Off of vacation, I went to Jamaica. My daughter got married. It was an amazing time.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 2:17Speaker 00

  And you went to Greece.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  I went to Greece and had an awesome time with Christina, got engaged, you know, so life is good.

• 2:24Speaker 00

  That's amazing. Congratulations to you.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  So we're both back, we're rested, we're ready for the rest of the year. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Penny Lewis.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Hey Penny.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  Jinxie.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Oh, I like some Jinxie.

• 2:40Speaker 00

  Mike Hawk.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  What's going on Hawk?

• 2:42Speaker 00

  Heather Bellamy.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Hey Heather.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Jennifer Monroe.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Well, thank you so much Monroe.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  Desiree Baker.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Hey Desiree.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  And last but not least, Femke Van Hirden.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Femke.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, love that name.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 2:54Speaker 00

  And if we go back into the vault.

• 2:57Speaker 00

  This week, we selected Jennifer Ratcliffe.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Well, thanks Jennifer.

• 3:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, we appreciate all the Patreon support. We have a brand new episode out right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolled. Where we're talking about Ben McDaniel. This is a guy who in 2010 went cave diving. At a popular tourist spot in Florida, and he never resurfaced. And they had a bunch of people looking for him. And there's a lot of mystery around this because there are some who believe that he was never even in the cave.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  So we dive into it all.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Want to go cave diving or slunking?

• 3:36Speaker 00

  I definitely don't want to go slunking or whatever you said.

• 3:42Speaker 00

  But cave diving does not sound like fun to me.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:47Speaker 00

  I'm sure if you're one of those real adventurous adrenaline seekers, that would be cool. I am not that person.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  They were lucky to get you to go snorkeling is what you're saying.

• 3:58Speaker 00

  And I did though.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:59Speaker 00

  And had a blast. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All The Time?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  I'm ready.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  We're talking about Janet Abaroa. On April 26, 2005, 25-year-old Janet Abaroa was stabbed to death in her Durham, North Carolina home. Early on, investigators had suspicions about her husband, Raven, but it would take several years before they were able to make an arrest. And we know, Gibbs, the husband is always going to be looked at, has to be ruled out.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Because husbands, most of the time, will have some type of motive, possibly, to want to kill their wives. And, you know, wives will have a motive or two to kill their husbands.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  I think you can look at your spouse right across from right now, right now, you know, just look at your spouse right now. That spouse has a motive on why they might want to take you out. And you probably have one that you might want to take them out.

• 5:04Speaker 00

  And I think it'd be healthy for, for everybody to sit down, you know, husband and wife, or husband and husband, or wife and wife, and just talk about your motives. Share your motives.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Hash it out.

• 5:18Speaker 00

  Hash it out. Janet Marie Christiansen Abaroa was born on June 19, 1979, in Alexandria, Virginia. She was the seventh of 10 siblings. Her family were devoted members of the LDS Church. That is a big family.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  It is a big family.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  Now, I'm not an expert on the LDS Church faith, but I believe they tend to have larger families than, than other segments of the population. Is that fair to say?

• 5:54Speaker 01

  It is. I think it's encouraged to grow the family.

• 5:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, to have bigger families. Janet was described as a friendly, outgoing person. In 1998, she met Raven at Southern Virginia University, where she played soccer. Raven also played soccer, and the two fell in love quickly. So they were both athletes in college, which means they were, you know, playing at a fairly high level. And I'm sure they bonded over that. Raven said in a 2007 interview with the TV show NC Wanted. She was beautiful, attractive. I just felt so much comfort when I was with her. And we started this journey of getting to know each other and it was an amazing journey.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  I feel like I've heard you say that about your wife.

• 6:44Speaker 00

  Well, she is beautiful and attractive and I'm very comfortable when I'm with her. And it's been an amazing journey.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  See?

• 6:51Speaker 00

  I said 30, 30 years last month, man.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  You did.

• 6:56Speaker 00

  In August 2000, Janet and Raven got married at the LDS temple in Washington DC. They moved to southeastern Virginia. Soon after the wedding, they both got job opportunities at Eurosport, a sporting goods company in Hillsboro, North Carolina. They settled in nearby Durham. I, I wonder how common that is. I think it's common for people to meet and fall in love at work.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:24Speaker 00

  But how common is it to get married and then for both people to find a job at the same company?

• 7:32Speaker 01

  I think that would be not very common.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  Less common for sure, right? Than, than the other way. But eventually they started having marriage problems. According to 2020, Janet's sister Sonia Flood said, he came to her one day because he wanted to be out of the marriage. And explained to her that he had been cheating on her with several different people. And very soon after that, she found out that she was pregnant.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, for your new husband to come to you, you know, I mean, it's a few years, but it's still new. That say, hey, I've been cheating on you. I want out. And then meanwhile, she's like, and I'm pregnant. I mean, you feel like you gotta be stuck.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  Well, Janet did confide in her family that she felt helpless. She didn't want to raise her baby as a single mother. And, you know, finding out that you're pregnant for most people is like just such a joyous time.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 00

  And it should be.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Should be happy.

• 8:39Speaker 00

  But she's in the middle of this very bad situation where her husband, you know, is admitting to cheating on her, not with one person, with several different people.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now she has to decide, should I cut him loose or keep him? Cause I don't want to raise this baby by myself.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  Their son, Kayden, was born on October 17th, 2004. According to Janet's sister, Sonya, Raven swore he would not cheat on her again. So on the outside, it seemed like maybe the two had worked things out. But in December 2004, Raven was caught stealing from the sporting goods company. He embezzled almost $10,000 and was stealing and reselling high-end merchandise.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  And now he's a cheater on a different level.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  Which would be horrible if he worked there by himself.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  But you have the added element that his wife works there as well. How shameful is that to her?

• 9:39Speaker 01

  It's gonna be shameful.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  And it was said that she was mortified. And although she wasn't involved in any way, she resigned. And I do think it would be hard, right? To continue to work there. And people are gonna talk behind your back and they're probably gonna say things about you. Janet was murdered on April 26, 2005. It seemed like a normal Tuesday for the family. Janet picked Kayden up from daycare and went with Raven to drop her car off for repairs. A church member visited their home until about 7:00 PM. Raven said Janet was getting ready for bed around 8:00 PM when he left to play indoor soccer with friends. His game

• 10:22Speaker 00

  started at 9:00 PM and he got home about 10:40. Raven called 911 after finding Janet's body in an upstairs office. He told the operator Janet had been shot, but police officers quickly realized she had been stabbed to death.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  But I think if initially you walk in and see something like that, you could make that mistake.

• 10:44Speaker 00

  Well, and we've heard other people in, in other cases, right? Say something like that. This person's been shot, but when, you know, the authorities look into it, they were stabbed, or maybe even the other way around. Let's face it, I'm picturing a very bloody scene. May not be easy to, to tell what's going on. Raven said he found Janet in a kneeling position. Investigators found her lying on her back with her arms above her head. Her T-shirt had been pulled up to expose her chest and there was a bloody palm print on her chest. Raven reported that he turned her over when she didn't respond to him.

• 11:27Speaker 00

  Janet was stabbed in the neck and chest. She had what were described as minimal defensive wounds. And I think that's something that investigators would take a look at, right? What does either the lack of defensive wounds or very minimal defensive wounds normally mean?

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that you know the suspect.

• 11:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, that, that you weren't confronted by a stranger and thought that you needed to put up a fight.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now you could say, maybe she didn't have defensive wounds because, or minimal defensive wounds because she was taken by surprise.

• 12:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think you can, you have to keep all of those things in play. The walls in the office were covered with blood, but otherwise the house was neat and orderly. Kayden was found in another room unharmed. There were no signs of forced entry. There were no signs of a, a struggle. Raven's laptop and hunting knife were the only things missing from the home. Other valuables like Janet's engagement and wedding rings were left in plain sight. So, you know, these are all things investigators are, are going to take a look at, right? No signs of forced entry, no signs of a struggle.

• 12:46Speaker 00

  Kind of also things leading you to think that possibly she knew her killer.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  And Raven's hunting knife is missing.

• 12:57Speaker 00

  And his laptop, but yet the, the person leaves very valuable jewelry that is left out in plain sight.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Pretty questionable.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  It is because if you're a killer and you also decide that, well, I've already killed. I'm going to take a few things. A hunting knife doesn't seem to be at the top of the list.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 00

  Right? It's not particularly valuable. Now a laptop might be worth some money, but obviously her engagement ring, her wedding ring, things like that, those are things that could be worth something and pawned relatively easy.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:42Speaker 00

  Janet's autopsy revealed that she was in the early stages of pregnancy. So police questioned Raven, but they didn't identify any suspects. Weeks and then eventually months passed with no answers. And Gibbs, with everything we talked about, you know, obviously not only does Raven have to be questioned, but he has to be ruled out, right? He has to be thought of as a person of interest who has to be ruled out. There's too much here. Number one, he's the husband. He is the person who found Janet.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  He said that his laptop and hunting knife were missing, but this jewelry wasn't. I mean, there's, there's nothing there that you would say, oh, well, yeah, obviously it's him, but there's all, these are also things that could potentially make it seem like maybe he had something to do with it.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  And if he did have something to do with it, did he turn her body over purposely? That way he could use that as a. Reason why DNA or fingerprints, whatever, were on the body.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  Were on her body. But I keep coming back to this hunting knife. She stabbed to death and his hunting knife is missing. In August 2005, Janet's family reported that Raven and Kayden had moved to the Salt Lake City area. On August 23rd, Raven pleaded guilty to five counts of embezzlement. He was sentenced to 24 months of probation and ordered to pay $9,600 in restitution. A year after Janet was murdered, police said they didn't think her death was random, but they did not yet name any suspects. In February 2007, it was reported that police traveled to Salt Lake City to interview Raven.

• 15:39Speaker 00

  Police had not called him a suspect and said he was cooperative. But that tells me they haven't given up on him, right? I don't, I don't think they've ruled him out. They still have questions of him. But it also means that they don't have any evidence, or at least enough evidence yet, to tie him to the murder.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  No, but I think they have to keep an eye on him.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And not a bad idea to maybe every now and then go interview him again. You know, is he gonna slip up? Is he going to say something different than he said in a previous interview?

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe he'll change his story.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  In December 2007, Raven started dating a woman named Vanessa Pond. Vanessa was a single mom, whose daughter was in the same daycare program as Kayden. Vanessa later told 2020, "Raven seemed very upfront, very honest and genuine, and I found out that he was a single father, and I really, really admired that." When they started dating, Raven mentioned that his wife died, and she felt sorry for both him and Kayden. Vanessa went online to find out more about Janet's death. At the time, she wasn't convinced Raven was innocent.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  But she talked to him and according to her, he removed any and every doubt from my mind. According to Vanessa, he had his stories about how people were trying to frame him, about how horrible the cops were and how he continued to try to contact the police to find out what was going on.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Not surprising that she went out to do a little research, you know, before she took it to the next level.

• 17:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good thing to do. And it doesn't surprise me either that once she learned what really happened, right, because he didn't say his wife was murdered. He said his wife died.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:37Speaker 00

  In the research, she's going to very quickly find out that she was murdered in a very brutal way. Well, you're going to have some additional questions, right, for this person.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  I'm going to need some answers.

• 17:49Speaker 00

  But according to her, he erased any doubts that she had. So maybe he's a very convincing person.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:58Speaker 00

  They eventually decided to move in together. On Mother's Day 2008, they got engaged. When Janet's sisters found out about the engagement, they felt they had to reach out to Vanessa to make sure she knew what she was getting into. They told her they were fearful for her. Vanessa recalled, I was heartbroken. I didn't want to believe it at all that he had done this. But shortly before the wedding, Raven began acting in ways she didn't understand. On the day of her bridal shower, Vanessa and Raven got into an argument. Raven shoved her into a wall and poked her in the chest so hard that it hurt for several days after.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  Vanessa pleaded with him to stop. She later testified per W R A L. He said, he didn't care if I die. He said, he wanted to hit me so bad and that he couldn't get in trouble anymore. He swung his hand back and stopped just before hitting her.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Okay. Anger issues?

• 19:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's a very bad sign for someone who is about to get married. That it seemed to me, all of a sudden, she's starting to see a different side to this guy.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  And you think it would be a good reason, maybe to pause getting married.

• 19:22Speaker 00

  Well, I do you have to also couple it with Janet's family reaching out to you and say, hey, we're worried about you. We want you to know what you're getting into. I mean, just think about all of the people listening, Gibbs, a lot of whom have gotten married. I'll ask the question, how many of you listening right now received a call from someone in your loved one's life who said, you should not get married to this person. We're worried about you. He's danger. I mean, that would be a, a real eye opener.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  It would be.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  For a lot of people.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna think we're gonna get a couple of calls where people will tell you that they did get a call like that.

• 20:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  But, you know, when you think about, you know, Vanessa, I mean, red flags. I mean, you know, you got two pretty sizable red flags here.

• 20:20Speaker 00

  Red flags, yes. But is Raven so convincing that maybe he's able to spin some of these things? Cause you think about the family calling, could he spin it and say, well, you know, they have their suspicions. I didn't do it, but they think I did. So they're going to tell you a bunch of stuff about me. None of it's true. Now, I don't know how you spin this act of domestic violence. Because she was the victim of it. She, she was there. She witnessed it.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  But if he can spin it, he's gonna find a way to spin it.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, and maybe it's, it's the old line of, I'm sorry, I'm never going to do it again. Trust me. And maybe that, that worked, because it does work sometimes.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:10Speaker 00

  For some people. But they got married on September 6, 2008. According to Vanessa, on the first night of their honeymoon, he was very drunk. And he started talking about how mad he was after Janet died. He just kept reiterating how mad he was. And then he cuddled up close to me and said, I promise I'll never hurt you. And I didn't know how to take that.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a little strange.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  At that moment.

• 21:39Speaker 00

  Maybe, you know, this is post-coitus. I, I, I don't know what's going on. It's honeymoon, right? Night. So, you know, you're laying there, you're spooning, whatever you're doing. He is talking about the murder of his first wife. And then, when you add on to it, I promise I'll never hurt you.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  Now, I'm sure he didn't emphasize the you.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:06Speaker 00

  But you can make it out that way, right?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  In that type of context. If you just say it out of the blue, I'll always take care of you, I promise I'll never hurt you. Okay. But when you're talking about how your wife was murdered and you say, I promise I'll never hurt you. That, it takes on a, a different gravity.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  I feel like it, uh, changes the mood of a honeymoon.

• 22:31Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, I would think it would.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  You know.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  Raven became verbally abusive and he had rapid mood swings. Vanessa told 2020, within moments, he could switch. He could say the most horrible things and then moments later, he would apologize. And I think there are a lot of people out there like this. Especially when you talk about people who commit acts of domestic violence, who are physically or emotionally abusive, they can flip on a dime.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  But then afterwards, it's all, you know, oh, I didn't mean that, I'm sorry. It's, it's whatever they can say to try to keep that person from.

• 23:19Speaker 00

  Either leaving them or calling the cops or both. Vanessa said there were also further incidents of physical abuse. She recalled, he grabbed me from the door and threw me up against the wall. And then I fell. Later, he tried to convince me that I tripped. Is that the definition of gaslighting?

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 23:39Speaker 00

  I think it is.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Prime, right?

• 23:41Speaker 00

  Prime. Vanessa began to fear for her safety and her daughter's safety. She worried what would happen if she left. So she tried to get Raven to leave. And he did so. On Christmas Eve, 2008. Vanessa said in an interview with NC wanted. He was in the process of cursing me, calling me names, saying how he hated me. Telling me he didn't care if I died. Then he said, you know what? I want to hit you so bad. And I can't get in trouble for it anymore. So he was pushing me around in the bathroom and wouldn't let me out of the bathroom. And later, as Raven was leaving, he went downstairs and grabbed Kayden and said, come on, we have to go.

• 24:26Speaker 00

  Mommy doesn't want us anymore. Who does that to a child? Their marriage was annulled after just four months.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can see why.

• 24:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, just think about all the, the stuff that we talked about. Prior to the wedding and then what happened after the wedding. I mean, this just never was good from the get go. I don't think, I think it was four months of, uh, what did I get myself into? I have made, uh, a terrible decision here on the part of Vanessa.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  He really, I mean, and he's saying how he really wants to hit her. That's just not good.

• 25:06Speaker 00

  But also, what do you make of that? I can't get in trouble for it anymore.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's.

• 25:12Speaker 00

  Almost as though he's gotten in trouble for it before.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  And this would be an additional and maybe more severe punishment would follow. I mean, you can take that a couple of different ways.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not sure how he was leading this, but it. It's, there's something there.

• 25:33Speaker 00

  In the spring of 2009, Vanessa went public with her fears that Raven killed Janet. In her interview with NC Wanted, Vanessa recalled how she searched Raven's name online and found his October 2007 interview with the program. He told Vanessa he spent months preparing for the interview and she wondered why he had to prepare so much. She also saw a video made by Raven that showed him opening a knife in front of Janet and talking about how he liked to collect knives. She was disturbed by the video because Raven told her he never had a knife collection and was not fascinated by knives.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Okay, I mean, I have a knife collection.

• 26:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, so do I. You and I have talked about it before.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I like my knives. I don't know if I'm overly fascinated by them.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  No, I, I wouldn't say fascination is the word, but I like to collect a lot of things. You know, I do.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  You do.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  I have a ton of different collections down here in the studio.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  I'm looking at at least three or four of them right now.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that's just, you know, my personality.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  And I never ask what's behind that door there that has the chain on it.

• 26:48Speaker 00

  And you should never.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  I don't really want to know.

• 26:51Speaker 00

  But I don't think there's any doubt, right? That between the turbulent marriage, the stuff that she's finding online, the discrepancies between what she was told by Raven and what he said in interviews, what she's seeing in videos, she just has a completely different opinion of him, right? Than she did maybe in the beginning when she was defending him.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:18Speaker 00

  She can't do that any longer.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  No.

• 27:21Speaker 00

  As the wedding approached, Vanessa's parents decided to ask Raven directly if he killed Janet. According to Jodeen Pond, and Raven's response to that was, I loved my wife in a beating around the bush kind of way. Yeah, I, I mean, if you want to have a sign that maybe this marriage is not going to work out, the bride's parents having to ask the groom if he killed his first wife seems to be a real bad sign to me.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Imagine if that would have happened this past week down, down where you were at.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  You know?

• 28:00Speaker 00

  I just can't even imagine having to come out and ask that.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  That just tells you the extent to which they were worried about it. They were thinking about it. This, it's not an off the cuff question. There's a definite concern there.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I feel like some of this conversation should happen, should have happened well before uh, coming up on the wedding.

• 28:28Speaker 00

  Well, and you don't, we don't know, right? How much or what type of conversations? They had with Vanessa about, you know, maybe this is not a great idea. You know, we don't know. There's always some of that maybe here. That year, the Durham Police assigned Detective Charles Soul to review Janet's case. Soul noted from the beginning that Raven gave contradictory statements to law enforcement. Soul also learned that the family was dealing with financial problems. Raven took out a life insurance policy on Janet, which he cashed in days after she died. Despite the fact that they were behind on bills and receiving aid from their church.

• 29:11Speaker 00

  Raven never missed a payment on that life insurance policy.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  See, that's, that's pretty telling.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  It is. Now, you and I've talked about life insurance policies before. I mean, they are a good thing. You want to be able to take care of your family in the event that something tragic should happen to you. But I would think for a lot of people, if you can't pay your bills, if you can't put food on the table, that might be one of the first payments that goes unpaid.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. You mean, you've got to shift her priorities.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  Soul reviewed crime scene photos and noticed a key detail. Janet's contact Lynn's case was sitting open in the bathroom, indicating that she had not yet taken out her contacts. Family and friends told Soul that Janet consistently removed her contacts before going to bed. So this kind Kind of contradicted Raven's story that she was getting ready for bed when he left the house. Sol also noted the lack of disturbance of the crime scene. With stabbings, there's usually a violent struggle between the victim and the perpetrator. And that's part of what we talked about, right?

• 30:29Speaker 00

  There were quite a few things that at least on the surface seemed to indicate that either Janet knew her attacker, or she was taken so completely by surprise that she didn't have a chance to react really whatsoever. On February 1st, 2010, Raven Abaroa was arrested and charged with first degree murder. In July 2010, the Christiansen family agreed to have Janet's body exhumed to determine if she was still wearing her contacts. Forensic analysis determined Janet had AccuView contacts in her eyes, which she always took

• 31:12Speaker 00

  out as she got ready for bed. This was enough evidence to send Raven to trial.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:18Speaker 00

  Now, this seems thin.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  It does.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  But there's a lot of stuff, I think, behind it. But I wouldn't say, but I wouldn't call it smoking gun, but it does contradict his story.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  It does.

• 31:34Speaker 00

  Right? She always takes out her contacts when she goes to bed. He said she was getting ready for bed, so they must have thought that was enough. Jury selection began on April 22nd, 2013. In their motion to dismiss, the defense claimed investigators collected blood that pointed to a third person at the scene and argued that a state Bureau of Investigation agent who examined blood on Janet's shirt was discredited in 2011 for fabricating, ignoring, and withholding evidence in several other criminal trials. An independent investigator did not agree with the original investigators' findings.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  They also argued that evidence left at the crime Which was destroyed by a church cleaning crew could have cleared Raven. Well, it doesn't surprise me that the defense is going to file a motion to dismiss. Now, I, I think what is a big problem, and you do see this sometimes, right? When you have someone in a position of power, in this case, you know, an, an agent with the Bureau of Investigations who is discredited and they were part of this case.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  That, that, there's a little bit of tank there.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Oh, it's gonna hurt.

• 32:55Speaker 00

  And it does happen sometimes. The judge denied the motion to dismiss and the trial opened on April 29th, 2013. The jury heard from 80 witnesses, including Raven's ex-wife Vanessa Pond and several other women who testified to Raven's violent behavior. Several of Janet's friends also testified regarding Raven's abusive behavior.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  Well, that's not going to be good for him.

• 33:22Speaker 00

  No, but it's just a piece of the puzzle.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  It is.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Right? You can be an abusive person, but not be a murderer. Doesn't make you a good guy, but it also doesn't necessarily mean you're a killer.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  Prosecutors offered no motive, but said circumstantial evidence would build a picture of why Raven was guilty.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, you can somehow toss in the life insurance.

• 33:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  You can also throw in the fact that he was a cheater on several levels.

• 33:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe wanted to be with someone else. Maybe the motive was money. Again, they don't always have to prove motive or they don't have to prove motive. But like I talk about a lot, I mean, I think so many of these cases are in large part circumstantial. And it's just putting brick by brick, right? Building the case up where the jury believes beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 00

  I just don't always think it's like the Perry Mason episodes that we used to watch. I mean, you watched them when they first came out. I watched the reruns because they were in black and white, but you know, in Perry Mason, there was always that. Aha bombshell.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Where now he was getting his client off because he was a defense attorney. Right. But it's kind of the thing. It was proven something bombshell-y was.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  Proving that his client couldn't have done it. I don't think in a lot of these cases, the prosecution, you know, they always have that one piece of evidence like DNA that proves conclusively the person did it. I think a lot of times it is just circumstantial, but it's a lot of circumstantial evidence.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 35:19Speaker 00

  In their opening statement, the defense acknowledged that Raven wasn't perfect, but there was no evidence to suggest he killed Janet. The Durham police focused solely on him and ignored evidence that might have pointed to another suspect. Investigators found an unknown fingerprint in the closet of the office, which began the disregard of evidence that might have cleared him. Investigators also found a bloody shoe print next to Janet's body and a blood stain on the frame of the side door of the home that contained unidentified DNA.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  But that could come from anything.

• 35:56Speaker 00

  Well, it could, but I do think, you know, if you, if you break down the defense's argument, they're making some strong points, right? They are trying to say that investigators got tunnel vision, right? They locked in on Raven. They pretty much disregarded anything else. The one thing that, you know, you can talk about an unknown fingerprint in the office or the closet of the office. Yeah, we, that could come from, you know, a lot of different people. The one that is kind of disturbing is a blood stain that contains unidentified DNA. All right. Could that have come from somebody doing some work on the house?

• 36:41Speaker 00

  Somebody that came over from the church and was helping out? Happened to have a cut or some, yeah, it could.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Possibility.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  But you know, the defense is going to try to make it out that, all right, this is the real killer right here. Why are you not trying to go get him? The defense noted that there had been more than a dozen car and home break-ins in the neighborhood prior to the murder, including a car break-in on the night of the crime. In that case, a jar of coins in the car was disturbed. Police ignored evidence of a canine leading investigators to a creek in front of the Abaro home where they found a coin. So they're trying to tie the murderer into, you know, all of these car break-ins and home break-ins.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Well, if you can, for them, it benefits to tie them all together.

• 37:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, because you could see how, you know, possibly it could cast some doubt in a juror or jurors. Janet's mother, who's also named Janet, testified that her daughter confided in her, that Raven left the marriage because he was unfaithful. Janet said that Raven verbally abused her, but didn't hit her. Janet Christensen testified per W R A L. She said that he would be up and happy and then that he would be way down. And when he was way down, she said, what he did was verbally abuse me. And we've talked about verbal and physical abuse a lot.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:13Speaker 00

  Over the years, and they're both terrible. But we have had listeners write in, leave voicemails and say that they've experienced both. And some people have said that the, the verbal can actually be worse sometimes.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it lingers with them.

• 38:32Speaker 00

  But again, neither one is good.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 38:34Speaker 00

  Nobody should be doing that stuff. Unfortunately, it does happen way too often. Former neighbor Lisa Seeley testified that on several occasions, she could hear the couple having heated arguments. Two weeks before the crime, she saw Janet holding on to the hood of the couple's car while Raven was driving. They both laughed off the situation and said they were kidding, but she was concerned because it was abnormal and because of the prior arguments.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  It seems like something you would see in a made-for-TV movie or just a movie.

• 39:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, like you have somebody hanging on a car while somebody else is driving. Now, it could have been that it was a real argument, but then when they saw that, you know, one of the neighbors was watching, they, they tried to play it off because they didn't want to look bad or something like that. Durham Officer Jason Williams testified that Raven was extremely composed when he spoke to the police after finding his wife's body. He was crying, but not uncontrollably. He had an answer for everything.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Again, on how people respond when they find their spouse murdered, some people are going to lose their mind. Other people will shut down. Some people find a way to be, I don't want to say cool and calm, but it's kind of, they're kind of cool and calm.

• 39:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  You know, and they're, maybe they break down later when no one's around.

• 40:02Speaker 00

  It could be. I mean, there is no one way, but you'd have to admit that the more calm and collected you are, the stranger it's going to look to police and people who respond to these types of situations a lot, because it's not going to be the norm. Former medical examiner Thomas Clark testified that Janet suffered three stab wounds, one to her left hand, one to her chest, and one to her neck. The neck wound was fatal. She likely lost consciousness within a few minutes and died soon after. The neck wound cut the right subclavian artery and punctured her right lung,

• 40:43Speaker 00

  causing her to bleed about two liters of blood into her chest. And it sounds like a very horrible way to die.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  It really does.

• 40:54Speaker 00

  Janet's hormone levels indicated that she had recently been pregnant. During cross-examination, Clark said the levels also could have been high after a recent miscarriage. And we just got done a little bit ago talking about possible motives. The one that we didn't talk about was Raven finding out that Janet was pregnant and not wanting to be a dad.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:19Speaker 00

  After this marriage had crumbled.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  It's just really seems like a act of rage of how she died. Somebody was really upset with her.

• 41:32Speaker 00

  Clark said it was impossible to determine the exact time of death because of factors such as the temperature of the house affecting decomposition. Raymond Wilson, Raven's former boss at the sporting goods company, testified that he played with Raven on the company soccer team. Raven's personality on the soccer field was different. He got into arguments and sometimes physical arguments. But I don't know what you make of that, Gibbs. I mean, are people sometimes different when they play sports? I would say, yeah.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  I think so. It's a pretty competitive sport, too. I mean, you're going to be pushing and jousting, you know, out on that field. And I think that's kind of normal.

• 42:15Speaker 00

  I know I'm a different person on the basketball court than I am in the office. I'm not, I'm not body checking people in the office. It's frowned upon by HR, I believe, but on the court, I mean, it's, it's a physical game. And sometimes, you know, you're pushing, shoving, you're yelling at people, you're getting into arguments.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  That's why so many people at the office that played basketball with you after hours didn't really want to play basketball with you after hours.

• 42:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I tend to be a little rough. Janet's friend, Megan Dowd Council, testified that Janet confessed to her that she was scared of her husband months before she was killed. Meghan said she told me things were getting weird and that Raven was making her nervous that she was scared of him. Before Janet could elaborate, Raven walked into the room. Meghan told WRAL Janet bowed her head and just looked like a scared animal. Meghan also testified that Raven flirted with her shortly after her conversation with Janet. Raven was sitting on her couch and asked her to look at something on his computer.

• 43:28Speaker 00

  He told her to sit in his lap and she looked at him like he was crazy. As I would think, most women would when their friend's husband tells them to sit on their lap. That is not a normal interaction.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  No, no, it's not. It's not gonna probably go over well with your wife either.

• 43:53Speaker 00

  If she finds out about it?

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 00

  And then the friendship's gonna be in danger as well. Meghan testified that during another visit with Janet in early 2004, Janet told her she thought her husband might have bipolar disorder. Meghan said she didn't know who she was going to have to deal with each day. Raven was never the same person. His mood could be one way one day and completely different the next.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  That's so scary, man.

• 44:21Speaker 00

  It is. Charlotte Revel testified outside the jury's presence that in 2003 Raven invited her to his apartment to discuss a problem she was having at work. Janet wasn't there and Raven wanted her to watch a video of him and Janet having sex. She didn't want to see it. She tried to pull away. At that time Janet returned home from work to have lunch and Raven pushed her into a closet. She was completely freaked out and didn't know what to do.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  It's not funny.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  It's not, but you almost have to laugh because it's so wild.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  And the fact that she went into the closet and probably stayed there.

• 45:07Speaker 00

  Because she didn't know what to do.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  But I do think what these people are doing is they're painting a real bad picture of Raven.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 45:16Speaker 00

  Right? This is a guy who obviously didn't care much about his wife because we already know he had numerous extramarital affairs. You've got the, this, these testimonies of, you know, he flirted with me. He asked me to sit on my lap. He wanted me to watch a video of him and Janet having sex. I mean, this is just very strange stuff.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Makes you just wonder, you know, next time you go over to a friend's house and they put a tape in, you're like, what's this tape about?

• 45:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm going to ask, why do you have a VHS in 2026? That's going to be my first question. That's the first red flag right there.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  How old is this?

• 46:00Speaker 00

  Now, the judge ultimately allowed Charlotte's testimony because it helped establish a motive that Raven didn't want to be married. And I think that's important, right? If you're the prosecution, you were trying to get that across to the jury. Folks, here's a man who didn't want to be married. He has this life insurance policy that despite having financial difficulties, he kept making the payments on. Can you put it all together?

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he cashed it in within days.

• 46:32Speaker 00

  Janet told her friend and coworker Kathy Cheek that as long as Raven took his medicine, he was okay. And when he didn't, he was verbally mean. Janet told Kathy that they separated in early 2004, but didn't tell her why. Kathy said Janet just said that she was sad and lonely and didn't understand why he left, why things were the way they were. Janet feared Raven's reaction when she found out she was pregnant with Kayden because Raven didn't want a child.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Well, that's just gonna tie him down even longer.

• 47:05Speaker 00

  So you have to take that into account when she then finds out that she's pregnant later on before she's killed.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I'm sure it's a struggle for her to deal with, knowing how he felt about the first child.

• 47:22Speaker 00

  And that's when maybe the relationship was actually halfway decent. Now it's in the dumper.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Oh, it's terrible. Big time dumper.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  Are you saying you have a big time dumper?

• 47:35Speaker 01

  I just wonder if you're gonna pick up on that.

• 47:38Speaker 00

  On at least two occasions in the two months before her death, Janet called Kathy from a payphone, asking if she and Kayden could spend the day with her because Raven was in one of his moods. Adrian Nelson, a friend who worked for an insurance company in Utah, testified that Raven asked her about different life insurance policies during a visit in late 2004. Adrian told him that because of some of Janet's health issues, it was unlikely she would qualify for a policy worth more than $500,000. Raven said he could find a better insurance policy for cheaper. Janet's friend Brittany Romito testified that Janet considered moving away at one point,

• 48:22Speaker 00

  but she decided to stay and work on the marriage when she became pregnant with Kayden. However, she told me her greatest fear was that her child would ever be alone with Raven. I don't know about you, but I'm just getting this feeling that. Janet was just in a horrible position.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  I feel like she was locked in.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Like, like between a rock and a hard place. I mean, she got married. I think she saw who this guy really was after she was married and already had a child together. It's kind of in our nature, most of us, to try to make things work, especially when there's a child involved. According to Brittany, Janet was once fun, happy and strong, but she was beaten down by Raven's abuse. Brittany testified, "The loving, charismatic Janet that I knew no longer existed after being in a relationship that was so abusive for so long. Her only motivation, once Kayden was born, was Kayden and keeping Raven happy."

• 49:29Speaker 00

  Witnesses testified about the couple's financial problems. Raven talked about selling his truck or motorcycle and had to negotiate his lease for cheaper rent. At the time of Janet's death, he was working as an admissions specialist for a company that specializes in online courses, and he was making about $30,000 a year. He was in jeopardy of losing his job if he didn't reach sales goals. During a review of financial records from the couple's home, investigators learned that the couple spent as much as they made. They had four auto loans, a $500,000 insurance policy for Janet, and a $1 million policy for Raven.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  There was a check in Janet's organizer for more than $1,100 to a bankruptcy attorney, but they never filed for bankruptcy.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Definitely in financial distress.

• 50:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, but here's my question. Why does a guy who makes $30,000 a year need a $1 million life insurance policy?

• 50:34Speaker 01

  You don't. It doesn't make any sense. Right? Maybe if you do 10 times your current earnings, so maybe 300,000, but why?

• 50:41Speaker 00

  Or 500, but a million just seems very high.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  It does.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  Now, a person could make the argument that if you've got something nefarious in mind, right, you want to have more out on you so that you can make the argument, well, I didn't kill for money. I had a million on me. We only had $500,000 on her.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  I mean, it looks better than if it was, if it was for less than.

• 51:08Speaker 00

  The other way around, or something like that. Janet's sister, Sonya Flood, testified that Janet stayed in the marriage because despite everything, she wanted to keep her commitment to Raven and to God. And that's another thing that we, we kind of haven't talked about in a while. And that's the, the LDS faith.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:29Speaker 00

  So, you know, how much of that played into it for Janet wanting to keep this marriage together?

• 51:37Speaker 01

  I think it played a big piece of.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  I, I imagine it did as well. Sonya also testified that a few weeks after the murder, when Raven stayed with her at her home in Virginia, she found a CD backup of his computer hard drive dated April 25th, the day before the murder, her husband made copies and she waited to give them to the police because she was unsure and had mixed emotions. According to WRAL, Sonya said, I was really mixed because Raven was someone Janet loved and I loved Janet, even though thinking he had committed this act, it was still hard to sort through it. Vanessa Pond also testified about the abuse she endured during her marriage to Raven. She

• 52:24Speaker 00

  testified that despite her reservations about his innocence and the violent incident on the day of her bridal shower, she went through the wedding because, as she said, I was really the only one in the position to get the information that they needed. So I felt like I could do that. I went through with the wedding and if he wasn't guilty, then we could have a great relationship with a lot of bumps along the way. But if he was guilty, I was hoping that I could help.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  She's trying to be positive, right? She's, if it's not good, if he's.

• 52:58Speaker 00

  If he's a killer?

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:59Speaker 00

  Then, then what? I can help put him away? I, it, it does seem, and I don't want to second guess people, right? That's, that's not my place, but it does seem like a strange reason to go through with a marriage.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  It does.

• 53:14Speaker 00

  If he's not guilty, then maybe it'll be okay. If he is, then I can help put him away.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  It's a pretty strange rationale.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  It, it is, but who am I to judge? The jury also heard from Raven's former coworker who said she had sex with him on a late night road trip because she was unsafe and was unsure what he might do to her. They became friends when she was 17 and still in high school. Their relationship changed in college in the fall of 2003, on the way back from a road trip to Charlotte. Raven started making unwanted sexual advances and they pulled off at a highway rest stop where they had sex. She testified, "I finally realized that I'm going to need to follow through with what's happening here. I felt like I was unsafe and that something was going to happen.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  I just wanted it to be over." On the way back, she was so nervous that she left her hair in the car. So investigators could find her DNA if something happened. She never talked about that night with Raven.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  So he sexually assaulted her?

• 54:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, this is a very bad guy. He's not yet convicted of Janet's murder.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:29Speaker 00

  But if all this other stuff is true, you know, he's an abuser. He's a sexual predator at the very least. The jury also heard that when Janet was exhumed, contact lenses were found in her eyes, which discredited Raven's story, that Janet was getting ready for bed when he left that night. The defense maintained that Janet never spoke of physical abuse and that most people who knew them said they were a normal, happy couple. And I'm telling you, Gibbs, I've talked about it time and time again. There is a difference in many people's lives between what happens behind closed doors

• 55:13Speaker 00

  and what they let those people around them see.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Very true.

• 55:18Speaker 00

  And I actually think that's especially true.

• 55:22Speaker 00

  With some of these men who are physically and verbally abusive, they don't want people to see that.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 55:31Speaker 00

  So they, they don't do that in front of friends and family. They try not to. They save that for, you know, behind closed doors when nobody else can see.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  In most cases, these are going to be fun-loving, uh, people to hang out with.

• 55:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  You're not going to know it.

• 55:53Speaker 00

  They have to have that facade.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  Defense witnesses provided a different view of the couple's relationship. One witness said that Janet and Raven were a prime example of what he wanted for his future relationships. He never heard the couple argue. Darius Nearings testified that he lived with the couple for several months in 2003 and never heard them argue or saw signs of mistreatment. During the trial, the defense learned about Janet's work computer and hard drive, which they didn't have access to before. Forensic examiners found dozens of flirtatious emails between Janet and a former boyfriend, which essentially turned this case on its head.

• 56:37Speaker 00

  According to the defense, the emails were dated within weeks of the crime. So I think what they're trying to say there, Gibbs, is, okay, do we have another person who may have had a motive to kill Janet?

• 56:52Speaker 01

  I mean, you can try to make that case.

• 56:54Speaker 00

  And I think that's something they would do, or did. Prosecutors presented their theory of how Janet died. In closing arguments, she had likely finished washing dishes and was prepping lunch for the next day when she was killed. Her rings were found by the kitchen sink. Witnesses testified earlier that she never washed dishes with her rings on. Peanut butter, jelly, bread, and sandwich bags were also laid out on the counter. It was likely that Raven called her to the office and stabbed her as soon as she stepped into the room. There was little indication of a struggle. Janet never saw it coming. After being stabbed in the chest, she likely fell to her knees clutching her throat.

• 57:38Speaker 00

  Raven approached her from behind and stabbed her in the hand and the neck. She then fell facedown. The prosecution hinted at a financial motive. Raven wanted to live beyond his means and he was in financial straits. He was closed to losing his job and facing embezzlement charges. He hadn't paid rent, but never failed to pay the premium on Janet's life insurance policy, which could help solve all of his problems.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:08Speaker 00

  In their closing argument, the defense noted that the police ignored evidence, including the computer hard drive found in storage at the Durham PD. The hard drive allowed the state to present a dishonest picture of who Janet Abaroa was, who Raven Abaroa is, and what their relationship was like. So the case went to the jury on May 29th. Then on May 31st, the judge declared a mistrial due to a hung jury. The jury deadlocked 11 to 1 in favor of conviction.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Wow, 11 to 1.

• 58:44Speaker 00

  So there was one person who held out. Raven rejected two plea deal proposals, but then in 2014, rather than risk a retrial, Raven agreed to enter an Alford plea. On March 12th, 2014, Raven made an Alford plea for voluntary manslaughter. He was sentenced to 95 to 123 months in prison with credit for four years time served. Raven said in court, as quoted by WRAL, "I didn't receive a fair trial the first time, and I don't think I'll receive a fair trial the second time. The fact is that I love my family very much, and I don't think it's worth risking the possibility

• 59:28Speaker 00

  of spending the rest of my life in prison for something I didn't do. I take this plea to ensure that that doesn't happen, and that's the only reason. I did not kill my wife." Raven served three more years in prison and was released on Christmas Day, 2017.

• 59:47Speaker 00

  And from what I could tell Gibbs, he's not spoken publicly about this since.

• 59:53Speaker 01

  I don't know why you would want to open that up.

• 59:54Speaker 00

  And, and I'm with you. I don't know what he would have to gain by talking about it at all. But I want to go back to the Alford plea. I mean, really Gibbs, if you think about it, it was probably the best thing for him.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  Oh, the way this was headed, for sure.

• 1:00:16Speaker 00

  I mean, 11 to one to convict hung jury is pretty close.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Speaker 00

  Thinking that you're going to spend possibly the rest of your life in prison. I mean, he's arrested in, in 2010. He's released in 2017. So he did seven years.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, pretty lucky, right? I mean, seven years after he pleaded.

• 1:00:43Speaker 00

  Now, if he's not guilty, he lost seven years of his life.

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:48Speaker 00

  And I will say that, you know, this is not a slam dunker. There's a, there's a lot of evidence that doesn't make him look good, right? Leans toward him being guilty. It doesn't surprise me that 11 people voted to convict him. I could see that.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  Sure you can.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  I could also see how a person maybe had some reservations that maybe the state just didn't quite have enough. In 2019, Raven's ex-wife Vanessa Pond told 2020 that her advice for women who might meet Raven is to stay far away from him. She said, please listen to what's out there, what's available on the internet. Please don't be drawn in and please get away as fast as you can. So for me, you know, as we wrap this one up, he did serve seven years in prison. Like I said, if he didn't do it, he lost seven years of his life.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:44Speaker 00

  But if he killed his wife in cold blood, as I believe a lot of people think he did, he got off really light in my eyes.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  He really did.

• 1:01:56Speaker 00

  But the Alford plea to me. It takes both sides, right? So that means maybe the state wasn't all that confident.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  I think they had to be lacking something for them to even consider it.

• 1:02:11Speaker 00

  That that's usually how it goes.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:13Speaker 00

  Maybe they didn't want to go through the expense, or maybe they just thought, you know, we think he's guilty, but this case isn't as strong as we'd like for it to be. I don't know, right? I didn't read anything where they came out and explicitly said why they went with the Alford plea. It's a strange case, though, in that I can see how neither side would be happy, right? Obviously, he's not happy because he had to do seven years in prison. The family is not going to be happy because they believe that he killed Janet, and he only did seven years in prison.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  Nobody's gonna be happy.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  No, no great win for anybody.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  And although technically he's guilty, right, of voluntary manslaughter, there still is a lot hanging out there because with the Alford plea, you know, you maintain your innocence.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:03:13Speaker 00

  But you admit that the state has enough evidence to probably get a conviction, whatever the exact wording is. I don't know, it's a little unsatisfying, if that's the right word.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  I think it's a good word to describe what happened.

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  Like, there's finality, but there's not.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:34Speaker 00

  So did Janet really get justice? Did her family really get justice? I highly doubt that they see it that way.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  I don't think they would.

• 1:03:44Speaker 00

  But that's it for our episode on Janet Abaroa. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  Let's hear it.

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  I'm Mike and Gibby. My name is Faith. I'm a listener all the way down here in Savannah, Georgia. I'm currently watching, which one is it? Sorry.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  I'm currently watching the Casey Woody episode and I got to the comment where Gibby was talking about the girly crime con doing the index finger and the thumb. I haven't even finished the episode. I literally, I called immediately. I just wanted to say that that, that is a good thing. A lot of people, that's when you go, you say clock it, or you say that's T and you put your fingers together, but it is a very good thing. You like it, it's good. And then I just wanted to add, there was a different episode about someone else out here in Savannah and y'all were talking about the city of Rincon and y'all were calling it Rincon, but a lot of people who aren't from here call it Rincon and even like Siri on the map will call it Rincon, but we call it Rincon. Anyway, love the show. I've been listening for I don't know how long now, but thanks. Keep your own time ticking.

• 1:04:49Speaker 00

  All right. Love it. Thanks for the voicemail. Thanks for calling in. I absolutely, Gibbs, I don't know if I've said it before, but I love Savannah.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 1:04:57Speaker 00

  It is one of my favorite cities. I love the architecture, the whole midnight in the garden of good and evil vibe and it's just a really cool city.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  You're probably gonna paint your door blue too.

• 1:05:11Speaker 00

  I might. I might. I don't know.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  It's supposed to keep away the uh.

• 1:05:15Speaker 00

  Evil spirits?

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Something like that.

• 1:05:17Speaker 00

  I've also had some really good food in Savannah.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  Have you?

• 1:05:19Speaker 00

  Over the years. I've only been there a few times, but uh.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  They'll have you back there.

• 1:05:23Speaker 00

  They also have some great peach cookies. I forget the name of the.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Oh, that's right.

• 1:05:27Speaker 00

  Company.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Love those peach cookies.

• 1:05:29Speaker 00

  But I know it's in Savannah.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Speaker 00

  And uh, they sell these, they're little, small peach cookies that are out of this world.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  And you couldn't get enough of those.

• 1:05:37Speaker 00

  No, my whole family loves them.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:40Speaker 00

  But that's it buddy, for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  And Gibby.

• 1:05:45Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.