Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Aldo Pacheco About this episode To outsiders, Aldo and Barbara Pacheco seemed like a happy family. When Barbara filed for divorce after a decade of marriage, Aldo became obsessed with winning custody of his kids and vowed that if he couldn’t have Barbara, no one else would.
Join Mike and Gibby as they talk about Aldo Pacheco. What appeared to be an earlier attempt at killing Barbara caused Aldo to be charged with aggravated assault and aggravated kidnapping. But he was out on bond when he initiated a standoff with police that resulted in the death of two people.
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1:47 Speaker 00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 433 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
1:57 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm doing pretty good. How about you?
1:59 Speaker 00 I'm doing excellent.
2:01 Speaker 01 Excelante.
2:02 Speaker 00 We kind of just did our little Patreon minisode.
2:06 Speaker 01 We did.
2:07 Speaker 00 That we do weekly, and we talked for about 20 minutes about, you know, what we got going on, what we're watching. You came up with a bunch of movies, couldn't remember who was in them or the titles.
2:18 Speaker 01 Not like me.
2:19 Speaker 00 You are a fountain of knowledge.
2:21 Speaker 01 Well, that I am.
2:22 Speaker 00 Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Hannah Shoot.
2:26 Speaker 01 There's the shoot.
2:27 Speaker 00 Jennifer Long.
2:27 Speaker 01 Hey, Jennifer.
2:28 Speaker 00 Randa Evans Stanley.
2:30 Speaker 01 Well, thanks, Randa.
2:31 Speaker 00 Morgan Leirdy.
2:33 Speaker 01 Well, there's Morgan.
2:34 Speaker 00 Si Pat.
2:35 Speaker 01 What up, Si Pat?
2:36 Speaker 00 Stacy Melsa.
2:37 Speaker 01 Oh, Melsa.
2:38 Speaker 00 David Raymer.
2:40 Speaker 01 Hey, Raymer.
2:41 Speaker 00 Claire Nicholas.
2:42 Speaker 01 Well, thanks, Claire.
2:43 Speaker 00 Shira Dawkins.
2:44 Speaker 01 Well, I like that, Shira.
2:45 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Brandy Noel jumped out at our highest level.
2:49 Speaker 01 Well, thanks. B to the Rand to the DI.
2:53 Speaker 00 Okay.
2:54 Speaker 01 That's pretty good.
2:55 Speaker 00 That, is it good? I don't know. Have I ever heard it? I don't think I have. So it's different. Let's put it that way.
3:03 Speaker 01 At least I didn't mess it up.
3:04 Speaker 00 I enjoyed, I enjoyed it. And if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Tommy Lawers.
3:12 Speaker 01 Hey, thanks, Tommy.
3:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, appreciate all the support we get. So we have a brand new episode out right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved. And we're tackling a pretty well-known unsolved case. This is one that, you know, a lot of people still to this day, over nine years after the murder speculate about.
3:33 Speaker 01 They do.
3:33 Speaker 00 The web sleuth online. It's the murder of Missy Beavers in Methlothian, Texas. There's reasons for it. I mean, you have a, an intruder dressed in tactical gear who, you know, goes into a church, is waiting for her when she enters to teach this fitness class. There's just a lot of mystery.
3:58 Speaker 01 There is. There's also a lot of speculation.
4:01 Speaker 00 Yep. So make sure you check that out. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?
4:07 Speaker 01 I am.
4:08 Speaker 00 We're talking about Aldo or Aldo Pacheco.
4:12 Speaker 01 Aldo, Aldo.
4:13 Speaker 00 I'm gonna go Aldo.
4:14 Speaker 01 Okay.
4:15 Speaker 00 Just pick one and we'll stick with it.
4:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, stick with that.
4:18 Speaker 00 So this is one of those cases, right? Where. You know, to outsiders on the outside looking in Aldo and Barbara Pacheco seemed like a happy, normal family. But when Barbara filed for divorce after a decade of marriage, Aldo became obsessed with a lot of different things, right? Winning custody, probably like many other men that we've talked about, didn't want to give up money. And he kind of made that determination that unfortunately many do. That is, if I can't have her, nobody else can. Yeah. And those are scary cases.
4:57 Speaker 01 Those are very scary cases.
4:59 Speaker 00 Barbara Pacheco grew up in Midland, Texas with two sisters and two brothers. According to her aunts, she didn't have a good relationship with her mother. At the age of 19, Barbara came to her aunt Eva Luna and said she could no longer live at home. Eva offered her a spare room in her house.
5:18 Speaker 01 As a good aunt would do.
5:20 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, that's, that's tough, right? Not having a good relationship with your parents or one or the other. In this case, you know, her mother and at the age of 19 saying, you know what, I just can't live here anymore.
5:33 Speaker 01 I need to get away.
5:34 Speaker 00 Barbara had wanted to be a teacher since she was a little girl. Her aunt Eva wanted her dream to come true. So she helped Barbara move to Angelo State University to earn her education degree. So it does sound like, you know, she had a really good relationship with her aunt and her aunt helped her out quite a bit.
5:53 Speaker 01 Good influencer.
5:54 Speaker 00 Yeah. In 1994, Barbara met Aldo Pacheco, a business student who was four years older. Aldo grew up in Fort Stockton. He was one of seven children, but one of his sisters died when he was 21. Aldo became especially close to his brother Guillermo. After this, Aldo told Barbara, he came from a dysfunctional family. But you know, the sources that we use for the episode didn't really provide further details. I mean, okay, what does dysfunctional mean? That can mean a lot of different things.
6:30 Speaker 01 It really can.
6:31 Speaker 00 I mean, what's, what's the, the spectrum on that?
6:34 Speaker 01 Could be the worst of the worst or just, uh, just light dysfunctional, right?
6:39 Speaker 00 Yeah, right. We can't get along. We fight a lot, all the way to like, you know, Gertrude Bana Shewski type shit.
6:46 Speaker 01 Oh, wow.
6:47 Speaker 00 If you remember her. Barbara initially introduced Aldo to her family as a friend. In her interview for the show, American Monster, Eva Luna recalled, when I shook his hand, my first reaction is that he was not good for her and he was not a good person from day one.
7:05 Speaker 01 Okay. Just from that handshake.
7:07 Speaker 00 You know, it's interesting because we meet people all the time. You think about meeting your daughter's boyfriends over the years. I can think about the same thing. You form an opinion of every person you meet right then and there.
7:25 Speaker 01 You really do.
7:26 Speaker 00 Now, there's all those sayings, right? Don't judge a book by its cover, but we're constantly forming opinions of people. And this one though, is, is pretty extreme. He's not good for her. He's not a good person from the first interaction. That, that was her thought.
7:47 Speaker 01 Makes me think of all the people you hired in your life. And just like when you hired me, you know, when I came in and shook your hand and that first thought was probably amazing. Look at, this guy is amazing.
8:00 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, but there are also people who put, know how to put their best foot forward to get in the door.
8:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:10 Speaker 00 And then it's, it's only later that you find out that that was just a smokescreen from the very beginning.
8:19 Speaker 01 And then the letdown comes.
8:20 Speaker 00 And then, and then it's like, oh my gosh, what can I do now? I've already hired this person. Now, I'm not saying that was you per se.
8:28 Speaker 01 No.
8:29 Speaker 00 I'm just saying some people do that. Barbara became pregnant a month after she and Aldo officially started dating. Barbara's aunts told her she didn't have to get married, but she wanted to. Right. It that happens.
8:43 Speaker 01 It does happen.
8:44 Speaker 00 I mean, I, I'm sure most people don't plan for it to happen that way, but it does happen. Aldo and Barbara got married in May, 1995. They held the ceremony at a gazebo in a park and had the reception at her aunt's house. Okay. Sounds like they went, you know, kind of low key with it.
9:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:07 Speaker 00 They didn't go overboard.
9:09 Speaker 01 It's a nice little ceremony.
9:10 Speaker 00 Yeah. And my oldest daughter is thinking about getting married in the pretty near future. And we've been talking about, you know, what routes to go. And did we go kind of lower key? Save a little bit of money and maybe she can use that money for something else. You know, because I think back to my, my wedding and it was awesome. Don't get me wrong, but the amount of money that was spent between my wife's dress, which was, you know, very expensive for the, the late nineties when I got married to the, you know, the dinner before the reception and all that. It, it just goes by so fast.
9:51 Speaker 01 It does.
9:52 Speaker 00 Now we, we have all the pictures, but it's a lot of money for, you know, however many hours that function takes place.
10:00 Speaker 01 Well, really at the end of the day, you just want to get married to each other, right?
10:03 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, they've been together for like eight or nine years.
10:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:06 Speaker 00 So we've known they were going to get married for some time.
10:09 Speaker 01 You could get a certificate on the internet to marry them.
10:13 Speaker 00 Or you could just do it because I know you already have a number of them.
10:17 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah.
10:18 Speaker 00 Their daughter Bonnie was born six months later. After their daughter was born, the family moved into an apartment close to the university. So Barbara could finish her degree. Aldo dropped out of school and got a job as a car salesman, hoping to save money so that they could eventually move into a bigger place. Aldo eventually started working at a prestigious country club in Midland. And by all accounts, enjoyed this job.
10:45 Speaker 01 All those oil workers down there in Midland.
10:47 Speaker 00 Well, there's a lot of money, right? Uh, at a certain point in time. All the way through today, the oil boom and there's some people in Texas who have a boatload of money.
11:01 Speaker 01 They do.
11:02 Speaker 00 I mean, we're talking Beverly Hillbilly type money.
11:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, big time.
11:07 Speaker 00 Barbara graduated in December 1996 and started working as a kindergarten teacher, which she loved. Things appeared to be going well for the couple, but Barbara and Aldo began having serious marriage problems around 2000.
11:23 Speaker 01 So it's been five years and now they're having some serious issues?
11:25 Speaker 00 Yeah, we don't know exactly when those issues started, but again, you know, so many people go through this. You get married with the best intentions in the world. You're in love. That's why people get married. But you find out that for whatever reason, you know, cracks start to develop or people change over time, relationships change and you decide, we can't make this work. It happens to a lot of people.
11:57 Speaker 01 Wait, you don't get married for the tax deductions?
11:59 Speaker 00 Some people might.
12:00 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
12:01 Speaker 00 There's also, you know, possibly a green card angle for some people. I don't know. I can only speak about myself. I was madly in love and still am, if you're listening to me edit this, honey.
12:13 Speaker 01 Yes.
12:16 Speaker 01 He always says how much he loves you.
12:18 Speaker 00 According to Barbara's aunt, Mary Perez, Aldo was likely frustrated when he had to go back to his job as a car salesman. He worked long hours and might have resented Barbara because she loved her job and he didn't. Mary also believed that Aldo was not physically abusive, but he was emotionally abusive.
12:38 Speaker 01 Which to some can be worse.
12:41 Speaker 00 Well, you know, let's face it, when people are physically abusive, you know, oftentimes that is a little bit easier to spot. You know, if somebody shows up to work and they've got, you know, black eye or they're all bruised up. Okay, people are going to start to ask questions.
13:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:01 Speaker 00 But the emotional abuse, it doesn't leave anything that really other people can see just by looking at you. Now they might know you're down, you're not the same person, melancholy or whatever.
13:18 Speaker 00 But to your point, it can be very scarring.
13:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:22 Speaker 00 And very nasty and hurtful.
13:25 Speaker 01 Sure can.
13:26 Speaker 00 One night Barbara unexpectedly called her aunt, Eva Luna. She was crying because Aldo hadn't been home in several days and she suspected he was out with this former girlfriend. Barbara called her aunt back hours later and said she was going to try to make things work because she didn't want Bonnie to grow up without a father. During this time Barbara and Aldo had their second daughter, Maddie. Months after Maddie was born, Barbara became pregnant with twin boys. Their sons Elijah and Run were born in September 2003.
14:01 Speaker 01 They're busy getting that family going.
14:02 Speaker 00 Well, it happened pretty quickly, right? The, the last three children came pretty rapidly. According to their oldest daughter Bonnie, my mom made sure everyone thought everything was perfect. But there was definitely a shift in the household. Bonnie noticed that Aldo was irritable and annoyed by the children. He was also very controlling of Barbara. And there's that word Gibbs.
14:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:30 Speaker 00 Controlling. And it pops up in so many of these episodes where, you know, ultimately the husband does something despicable. Why are these men so controlling?
14:45 Speaker 01 I mean, look, nobody should control anybody. If you're in a healthy relationship, you don't need to control anybody.
14:52 Speaker 00 No, you're absolutely right. I mean, in a perfect world, each partner would be secure with no need to feel like they have to control the other. The, the problem is we don't live in a perfect world. Far from it, as evidenced by, you know, the episodes that we do.
15:10 Speaker 01 Right, right. Well, if anything, you hope that there's some give and take in that relationship. Just not a total domination of control by one side.
15:18 Speaker 00 But that's, that's a lot of times what it is, unfortunately. Barbara told her aunt Eva that Aldo would time her when she went to the store. And if she wasn't back within his timeframe, he would call her repeatedly. Eva told Barbara, this was a control issue. She wanted Barbara to know she deserved the best in life, but it would be up to her to make a decision about what she wanted to do. So again, we go back to her aunt is very supportive of her. And it sounds like she was throughout her life. But she's giving her her thoughts, which are great. They're correct, right? This is controlling behavior. But Barbara's an adult.
15:59 Speaker 00 I mean, she can't forcibly make her leave this marriage. You know, she's giving her, her best advice and, and, but it's up to Barbara to, to make her own decisions.
16:12 Speaker 01 Can imagine trying to time your partner, spouse, girlfriend, whatever. Um, why they leave to make sure that they're back within a set amount of time.
16:20 Speaker 00 Yeah, if anything, I sometimes hope my wife stays out a little bit longer. So I can play more Xbox.
16:28 Speaker 01 Take your time, honey.
16:29 Speaker 00 The opposite of control. The twins celebrated their first birthday on September 17th, 2004. During their party, Aldo pushed Ryan's face into the cake. And at one point he struggled to breathe. This guy was laughing, Gibbs.
16:47 Speaker 01 Sounds like he's an asshole.
16:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, he's laughing, but Barbara was very upset. And this was the final straw. She decided she wanted to end her marriage. She called her aunt on September 18th and told her she and Aldo discussed separating. And it may be one of those scenarios where, and I think it was because she made, you know, the statement, right? She wanted to make the marriage work for the kids as many people do. You want to try to keep the family together.
17:18 Speaker 01 We do.
17:19 Speaker 00 But at some point people realize that that's just not going to work. But when he starts messing with the kids, okay, that's, that's, that's to some, to many more egregious. It's one thing that you're doing something to me, but now you're messing with the kids.
17:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's, you already crossed the line, but that's like, we're really crossing the line.
17:43 Speaker 00 Aldo moved in with his brother and Barbara and the kids moved in with her aunt Eva Luna. He left numerous messages on Eva's answering machine. Bonnie heard some of the messages and they frightened her. Both Barbara and her aunt were afraid. In one message Aldo told Barbara, he had been reading her emails. And in another, he said his lawyer hired a private investigator to watch her. Aldo was fixated on getting full custody of the kids.
18:14 Speaker 01 And trying to intimidate her.
18:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, we already said, right? He's a very controlling individual. Does it shock you that once she leaves, well, he's still trying to control her?
18:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:29 Speaker 00 This is just another way of, of control or another method of control. She's no longer living in the same house, but he's trying to control her by leaving messages saying, "Hey, I got somebody watching you. I'm reading your email."
18:45 Speaker 01 Right. And does he really want the kids? Because he's a loving and caring dad, you know, that pushes his kid's face in a cake? And holds them down? Or is he just somebody who wants to have custody of the kids to avoid paying for them? Or paying less for them? And to have the control of having the kids over her?
19:05 Speaker 00 Yeah, I was thinking that too could be a form of control, right? I control the kids, so you're going to do what I say. Barbara was granted temporary custody of the kids at a hearing on May 12, 2005. And Aldo was granted standard visitation rights. On the morning of May 23, 2005, Barbara called 911 to report that Aldo kidnapped and assaulted her. She was dropping the twins off at daycare. When Aldo approached and said they needed to talk, he got in her car, punched her in her face, and forced her into the passenger seat. He started driving to a motel in Odessa.
19:46 Speaker 00 When she tried to escape, Aldo pulled out a knife and forced her down to the floorboard. He continued hitting Barbara in the face and said, he just wanted to go to the motel to talk.
19:58 Speaker 01 I just want to talk, but until we get there, I'm going to beat the crap out of you.
20:02 Speaker 00 And hold a knife on you.
20:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:05 Speaker 00 Once they arrived, Aldo wanted her to go into the room with him, but Barbara refused. She was afraid of what he would do.
20:13 Speaker 01 She should have been.
20:14 Speaker 00 Oh, very much so. Anybody that pulls a knife on you is not someone you want to be alone in a, in a hotel room with. She fell to the ground and Aldo kicked her. She was able to escape and ran to the motel office to call for help. Aldo then drove off in her car. Police photos showed Barbara with a black eye and other injuries to her face. She was taken to the hospital for treatment. So no doubt, Gibbs, this would have been a very traumatic event, right? For Barbara, I, I can't help but wonder what this would be like in any situation.
20:53 Speaker 00 But what would it be like when it's perpetrated by a person with whom you had a marriage? You, you loved, you have four children and, and this person is doing this to you.
21:06 Speaker 01 The shock and all of it.
21:07 Speaker 00 Yeah, this is not a stranger off the street.
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23:39 Speaker 00 A couple hours later, Aldo's brother Guillermo called the police to report that Aldo had given him two letters with instructions to mail them to his mother and kids. Aldo apologized repeatedly in these letters and implied he was planning to kill Barbara and end his life. In a letter to his children, he wrote, "You guys would be better off without us in your life."
24:04 Speaker 01 Cause he's an expert on what they would be better in life at.
24:07 Speaker 00 Yeah. And he's not even saying you'd be better off without me. You'd be better off without both of us.
24:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:15 Speaker 00 So he's speaking not only for himself, but for Barbara as well. And I'm sure she didn't feel the same way.
24:23 Speaker 01 I'm sure she did not.
24:24 Speaker 00 Aldo returned to the motel parking lot on the night of May 23rd and was arrested. He was charged with aggravated assault, aggravated kidnapping and possession of a deadly weapon. Okay, those are serious charges as they should be.
24:40 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
24:42 Speaker 00 He posted his bond three months later. Barbara had a protective order and was granted full custody. According to the Odessa American, police visited Barbara's residence five times in six months for a request to check the home, a report of a suspicious person and a suspicious vehicle in the area.
25:02 Speaker 01 I'm sure he was stalking her.
25:04 Speaker 00 And I'm sure she was scared. So, you know, even if this was not him every time, can you blame her for being very scared and paranoid? And I would say no.
25:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, I would be paranoid and scared too, if I was in her position.
25:22 Speaker 00 This is a man who kidnapped you, assaulted you, and wrote a letter essentially saying he was planning on killing you and himself.
25:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:33 Speaker 00 And now he's out on bond free. By the fall of 2005, things were improving in Barbara's life. She was spending time with James Eric Wiggs Jr., a special education teacher at her school. Eric was divorced and had a daughter.
25:50 Speaker 01 So it seems like things are getting better for her. Moving on.
25:53 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, you know, she's met somebody, you know, we don't know how serious it was, but she's spending time with this person. Michael Lee Johnson described her dad as a goofy outgoing person. She spent time with Barbara and her kids and said Barbara was always kind to her. Barbara's daughter Bonnie liked Eric and thought he brought out the best in her mom. And my thought is Gibbs, the bar was probably not that high to be, you know, a good influence or to bring out the best in Barbara.
26:28 Speaker 01 Probably not. Just be kind.
26:30 Speaker 00 And be better than Aldo, which was probably not too hard. In addition to teaching, Eric enjoyed music and acting. He worked at a local playhouse doing lighting, sound and acting as a stagehand. He had recently become the theater's technical director and designed sets for the upcoming season. On the afternoon of January 16th, 2006, the Midland Police Department received the 911 call. The dispatcher briefly heard what sounded like a woman's voice, followed by three gunshots.
27:04 Speaker 01 Well, you know, when the dispatcher hears that, they know something bad is happening.
27:08 Speaker 00 Yeah, you know, a lot of times people call and it takes the dispatcher a while to, to get it out of, from the person, like what is really going on? Well, when you hear three gunshots, I don't know what else you need to know. Right? Somebody needs to get out there immediately. Officers found Eric in the front yard of Eva Luna's residence. He had been fatally shot in the chest and right arm. EMS workers attempted to revive him, but they were unsuccessful. Inside the home were Aldo, Barbara and their son Elijah. Aldo picked up the phone and warned the police he was armed. An officer who knew Aldo spoke to him on the phone.
27:54 Speaker 00 Aldo admitted he shot Eric Wicks and said he was not going to let them make an ass out of me anymore.
28:02 Speaker 01 Oh, I think if anybody was making an ass out of you, it's yourself. Wasn't them making an ass out of you.
28:08 Speaker 00 No, but you know, kind of analyze his thought process there. Who's making an ass out of him? Eric, Barbara, and how are they doing it? By being together?
28:22 Speaker 01 Yeah. Doesn't make sense, but to him it does. And he said he didn't want to share. If he couldn't have her, nobody can have her.
28:31 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think he had that, that kind of way of thinking going on. Homicide negotiator BJ Land convinced Aldo to release Elijah around 3:30 PM. But hours passed and he refused to consider any further requests. And this is something, you know, you, you would see in a movie. I know it happens in real life, obviously. Hostage situations where you have a negotiator, they show it a lot in movies. Very tense situation.
29:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's why they're trained very well in dealing with this stuff.
29:07 Speaker 00 The standoff continued until a few minutes before 6:00 PM. When negotiators heard a pop that sounded like a gunshot. SWAT entered the home and found Barbara dead in the bedroom. She was shot in the stomach and throat. Aldo suffered a self inflicted gunshot wound to the face, but he was still alive. Police saw that he had written Eric Wigg's license plate number on his hands. Leading them to believe he was following him. So, you know, when you talk about a hostage situation and hostage negotiators. It's really tough for those folks to be successful. When the hostage taker doesn't want anything.
29:51 Speaker 01 Well, that's true.
29:52 Speaker 00 And they're not willing to talk to you.
29:55 Speaker 01 Can't bargain with them.
29:57 Speaker 00 You can't give them anything.
29:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:59 Speaker 00 Now they were successful in getting Elijah out of the house, which is, which is a good thing. But it seems to me, Gibbs, he was pretty set on what he was going to do. He was going to shoot and kill Barbara and then he was going to kill himself.
30:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, because he knew Barbara wasn't going to come back to him. And that's what he wanted.
30:20 Speaker 00 Aldo was charged with capital murder in the hospital. He was hospitalized for multiple days. As a result of the gunshot wound, his left eye is permanently closed. Aldo has deep scars across his neck, left cheek and head. He's missing teeth and parts of his face are recessed. Well, okay, things like that are going to happen. When you shoot yourself in the face.
30:46 Speaker 01 It will.
30:47 Speaker 00 On April 5th, 2006, Aldo was indicted on a capital murder charge. His trial started on November 13th, 2006. The prosecution chose not to pursue the death penalty.
31:01 Speaker 01 Kind of strange.
31:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, it is Texas. They are big on the death penalty in Texas. The prosecution argued that Aldo originally planned to kill Barbara during the May 2005 kidnapping. The jury heard part of Barbara's police interview and they saw the photos of her injuries. A detective testified that Aldo rented a motel room under the name Danny Sanchez. Inside the room, he found Barbara's purse and cellphone and a large bottle of alcohol that was mostly empty. In Barbara's car, a detective found duct tape and a knife. A detective also told jurors about all those letters, which he left at his brother's workplace to be mailed out.
31:47 Speaker 00 The show American Monsters included photos of the full letters in their episode on the case. Aldo wrote to his mother, "I'm so sorry for doing this, but to live without my kids and my wife is not worth living. Tell Johnny Rigo, Mary Prissy and Mimo that I love them very much and that I'm so sorry for doing this to them. I didn't deserve this and I'm not going to be her slave for the rest of my life and pay her money so she can screw around. Mom, thank you for always being there for us in good times and the rough times. I know you might not understand why this happened, but I found out she was seeing another guy she was involved with.
32:29 Speaker 00 If I can't have her, then no other man is going to have her."
32:34 Speaker 01 There you go.
32:35 Speaker 00 Try to get the kids and have them in your lives. Tell them that their dad loved them very much with all my heart. Tell them I always loved them with all my heart. I'm so sorry, Mom. If I can't have them, she can't have them either. I love you and please try to forgive me for doing this to you guys. I feel like such a failure. Mom, I couldn't even keep my family together. Try to get kids, please. Have them in your life, please. See me living through the kids. I wished this had never happened until Bonnie, Maddie, Ryan, and Elijah. The dad loved them very much with all his heart. Tell Esther and John, I am so sorry and please forgive me. So, I mean, I think it speaks volumes.
33:18 Speaker 00 You know, that one phrase. If I can't have her, then no other man is going to have her.
33:27 Speaker 01 You can tell how selfish he is in that letter.
33:29 Speaker 00 Oh, so much so. But then what is he also saying in there? I didn't deserve this. I'm not going to pay her money.
33:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm not going to pay her support payment.
33:42 Speaker 00 Right.
33:42 Speaker 01 And all this, yeah.
33:43 Speaker 00 If I can't have her, if I can't have the kids, uh, you know, then he's got a lot of woe is me in there. I'm a failure. I can't keep my family together. And I get it. There are some thoughts that a person would have like that, right? When a relationship disintegrates. I'm sure a lot of people feel that way. But what most people don't feel is that they have to kill the other person because they don't want anyone else to have them. They don't want to pay the money and they don't want them to have the kids. You know, most people, the majority of people don't feel like that. Or they might feel like that, but they definitely don't act on it.
34:25 Speaker 01 They don't act on it.
34:27 Speaker 00 Aldo wrote to his children, "I'm so sorry for doing this to you guys. I know you don't understand why this happened, but I couldn't live without you guys in my life. I love you guys with all my heart and not having you in my life every day is not worth living. Please know that you gave me so much joy in my life. You guys are my world. I'm not going to live like we were going to have to if mom and dad got divorced. I didn't want you guys to have to see that all your lives. You guys would be better off without us in your life. Please always remember that I loved you guys with all my heart. You guys should stay with Grandma Esther, Grandma Pacheco. They do love you so much. Even Mary thought that mom and dad
35:09 Speaker 00 should get divorced because it was the best thing for everyone and that was wrong. Don't let them take care of you guys. Don't trust them. I love you guys and I hope you can forgive me for doing this to you guys. Always remember that dad never wanted this and wanted the family to stay together. Remember that I did everything I could to keep this family together and mom would not even try. I love you guys. Remember dad always loved you. Please try to remember that dad loved you. Bonnie, Maddie, Elijah, and Ryan with all his heart. Love you always dad."
35:41 Speaker 01 Throwing his kid's mom underneath the bus in the letter.
35:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, mom didn't want this.
35:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:48 Speaker 00 What he doesn't say in the letter is that dad was an asshole. Dad was controlling. Dad was physically abusive, emotionally abusive.
35:58 Speaker 01 Dad drove her away because of all this.
36:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, I think it's very clear, but again, the distorted view by people, right? He has a distorted view of the situation. All he can think of is, "Well, I tried to keep this family together. I wanted to keep it together, but she didn't want to try. I think she tried for many years."
36:21 Speaker 01 Sure she did.
36:22 Speaker 00 And eventually she said, "I can't do this anymore." Now prosecutors argued that these letters showed Aldo's intent to kill Barbara and himself because of the custody battle. And I think it, it's pretty easy to make that correlation.
36:40 Speaker 01 I think so.
36:40 Speaker 00 It's not a leap. And when he says, you guys will be better off without us in your lives.
36:48 Speaker 01 I mean, he really spells it out.
36:49 Speaker 00 A neighbor testified that Aldo attempted to run over Eric Wiggs after he shot him, and then drove his vehicle through the garage door of the home. The jury also listened to the 911 call from January 16th. According to the 911 dispatcher's testimony, Barbara initiated the call, then dropped the phone. She was heard screaming briefly after the call connected. 30 seconds later, the dispatcher heard two gunshots and a child cry. After the second gunshot, there was a brief pause before a third gunshot, which investigators said was fired into a TV.
37:28 Speaker 00 After that, Aldo picked up the phone and demanded to speak to his mother-in-law, Esther Paredes. He identified himself by name when asked by the dispatcher. Aldo said in the call, per the Odessa American, "I'm so tired of them screwing me. I just want to see my baby." That's all. He repeatedly demanded to speak to his mother-in-law, but did not tell the dispatcher how to contact her. He then asked to speak to his brother, Guillermo Pacheco, who got on the line. Aldo asked, "Mimo, why would she do this to me?" Aldo's brother tried to convince him to come out of the house. Aldo responded, "She's fucking around. She's
38:11 Speaker 00 not going to do that to me anymore." Now, this was from the Odessa American. They, you know, they omitted the expletive, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was.
38:22 Speaker 01 Pretty sure too. But he's saying she's messing around, but they're separated.
38:26 Speaker 00 They're not together anymore.
38:26 Speaker 01 They're not together. She can do whatever she wants.
38:29 Speaker 00 Now, could she have been messing around with this guy before? I, I guess it's possible. There was nothing in the research that definitively said that. Everything I read made it sound like the relationship began after her and Aldo split. But again, it's how does Aldo Pacheco view things in his mind?
38:55 Speaker 00 Right? We know it's a distorted view.
38:58 Speaker 01 Oh, for sure. He feels like he's done nothing wrong.
39:02 Speaker 00 And you know what? I do want to go back to him being out on bond. I, I get it. There's a bond process most of the time, but could you make the argument that a man who kidnapped, assaulted, and clearly had the intent to kill his wife and himself, maybe should be denied bond?
39:27 Speaker 01 It's a good thought.
39:28 Speaker 00 Because if he's not out on bond, this part doesn't happen. I know, I know it's hard to predict that something like this is going to happen, but I mean, I, I said it earlier, right? Those were very serious charges he was facing. And coupled with the letters, you can clearly see what the intent was.
39:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, him getting out on bond allowed him to do what he did.
39:55 Speaker 00 Now, I know it's easy to, to look at it after the fact and say, well, he should have been denied bond, right? That part is easy. Before the fourth gunshot was heard, Aldo told police negotiator BJ Land, he was worried about his children throughout the call. He insisted Barbara was okay, but refused to let anyone speak with her. He was asked who the man outside was, and he responded, that's her blanking boyfriend. Aldo said at one point, they were laughing at me, man. They took my kids. The justice system is messed up. Again, just more stuff there, Gibbs, that I think, you know, tells
40:36 Speaker 00 you where his head was at. They were laughing at me. It's like he felt as though Barbara and, you know, also Eric had gotten over on him somehow. Like they were laughing at him. They were mocking him because they were happy together. And here he was completely out of the picture.
41:02 Speaker 01 He's really making up a lot of narrative in his own mind.
41:04 Speaker 00 Yes. Police officers testified they were so certain Aldo was their only suspect that they didn't even send some evidence off for processing, which does seem a little strange to me. I get it. You're, you're very sure that he's the killer and he's the only one that could be the killer.
41:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:27 Speaker 00 But I don't know. Do you, uh, are you at that point looking to save money by not sending some of the evidence off? I don't know. That part seemed a little strange to me. Defense attorney Rusty Wall said in his opening statement, as quoted by the Odessa American, "I submit to you that the evidence shows Aldo Pacheco is also a victim of what occurred on that day. Every day Aldo Pacheco lives and looks into a reflective surface. He can't help but remember that day." And I gotta be honest with you, that's one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard.
42:06 Speaker 01 I have to agree with you.
42:08 Speaker 00 He's a victim only in the sense that he did that to himself.
42:12 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
42:13 Speaker 00 So to say that he has to look into a mirror every day and be reminded of it, he should be reminded of it.
42:22 Speaker 01 Absolutely. Yeah.
42:23 Speaker 00 He killed two individuals.
42:25 Speaker 01 Yes. Live with it.
42:26 Speaker 00 That, that just seems like a very dumb statement. I, I know defense attorneys say things, they have a plan in mind, but you know, that if I was on a jury, I would be shaking my head over that one. The defense argued that Aldo felt betrayed by Barbara and the government. He was pushed into a corner and felt like he had no choice. And that might be true. He might have felt like he had no choice, but that was a feeling that he had. That wasn't true, right? That wasn't correct.
43:00 Speaker 01 Yeah. There's always another choice.
43:02 Speaker 00 Yes. Now, he might've really been feeling that way, but that was only in his, his own mind.
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43:40 Speaker 00 Aldo shocked the court by getting on the stand and testifying that he killed Eric Wiggs in self-defense. Aldo explained that it all started because he needed to see his children. He told the jury that before the separation, he was the one who woke the kids up, dressed them, and got them ready for school or daycare. After Barbara filed for divorce in April 2005, he had visitation on Thursday nights and every other weekend. He claimed Barbara wouldn't take his calls, wouldn't allow him to see the kids, and tried to turn them against him. He believed she was being unfaithful to him and alienating him, which made him angry.
44:24 Speaker 01 Well, she doesn't have to be faithful to you because you're not together anymore. So that doesn't even play.
44:31 Speaker 00 No, but in his mind, what is he thinking? Technically, we're still married, so you can't be with anybody else because we're still technically married? Which is not normally how it plays out in real life, right? When people separate and they're going through the divorce process, that kind of faithfulness part, I think for many goes out the window. Aldo testified that the May 23, 2005 incident was an argument that got out of hand, and it was the first time he'd ever hit Barbara. He was forbidden from seeing the kids after this. An incident.
45:15 Speaker 00 That was an argument that got out of hand that you somehow got charged with aggravated kidnapping, aggravated assault and a couple of other charges. Yeah, it got way out of hand.
45:28 Speaker 01 Yeah. Maybe that's why you're not seeing the kids anymore.
45:33 Speaker 00 He began to suspect Barbara had feelings for another man and that was why she asked for divorce. One day while picking up the kids, he saw a number on the caller ID. He didn't recognize. He called several times and a man eventually answered. He told him who he was and asked for his name, but the man hung up on it. Aldo had a friend who worked at a cell phone shop, traced the number, which identified Eric Wicks. And again, I don't know if Barbara had feelings for Eric before she asked for the divorce or it happened after, but you know, I'll be honest with you.
46:10 Speaker 00 I don't care either way. And here's why I say this, because I believe Aldo was a terrible husband, a terrible man, controlling, abusive. I think she probably, from everything that I read, went above and beyond on trying to make the marriage work and probably stayed in it far longer than she really wanted to, just to try to save it, right? To keep the family unit together for the kids.
46:43 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, the outcome was based on the events that he made happen earlier.
46:48 Speaker 00 Yeah. Yeah. But can you imagine being in that situation for a number of years? And then whether it was before she asked for the divorce or after, you meet someone and you realize that, you know, all men don't act like that.
47:06 Speaker 01 Right.
47:06 Speaker 00 Some men are nice and will treat you nicely. I'm not saying anyone should be unfaithful. What I'm saying is, is that the, the timing of it, which we don't know, i- is not that relevant to me in the grand scheme of things. I know what Aldo has in his mind, right? Eric came between my wife and I, but you and I are sitting here saying that we don't believe that's the truth. Aldo himself caused the disintegration of the marriage by the way he acted.
47:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:41 Speaker 00 And the way, the way that he treated her.
47:43 Speaker 01 Oh, if she decided to develop a friendship with Eric at the school or elsewhere and that grew because Aldo decided to be the way he was. Well, that's just human nature.
47:56 Speaker 00 On January 16th, Aldo was driving and passed Barbara and his son Elijah in a vehicle with Eric Wiggs, who he didn't recognize at the time. Aldo said he wrote down Eric's license plate number to find out who owned the vehicle. He testified per the Odessa American, "I first blamed him. I thought, this is the reason I lost my wife. This is the reason I lost my family. I was putting blame on the gentleman with her. I was happy to see my boy. I hadn't seen him in eight months. But who was this guy holding my son? I became angry. He followed them to the house and tried to have a friend who worked at a car dealership run Eric's plate. This was unsuccessful.
48:40 Speaker 00 Aldo circled the block before parking in the driveway. Eric walked outside, holding a pack of Diet Pepsi cans. Aldo asked for his name and Eric asked what he was doing there. At some point in their argument, Aldo believed Eric was going to throw the soda cans at him. So he shot him.
49:00 Speaker 01 Wow.
49:01 Speaker 00 Now, I've heard a lot of self-defense arguments. Some very believable, some not believable at all. If you and I are standing in the yard and I don't, let's say we're 20 feet away. I have a gun and you have a 12 pack of Diet Pepsi. Am I in fear of my life that you are somehow going to open that, pull out a can? Throw it at me that I can't dodge and I'm in mortal danger.
49:35 Speaker 01 Farfetched.
49:36 Speaker 00 Yes. I have an implement of death in my hand. You have a refreshing drink. This makes no sense at all.
49:45 Speaker 01 No, but he's got to throw some type of argument.
49:47 Speaker 00 Well, he does. I mean, what's he gonna say? The truth is not gonna work because, you know, we all believe the truth is he went there to kill Eric and Barbara.
49:58 Speaker 01 Sure, based on his notes.
50:00 Speaker 00 Yeah. But again, if I'm on that jury, I'm just shaking my head because it doesn't make sense.
50:09 Speaker 01 Right.
50:09 Speaker 00 And did he run this by his defense attorney? Hey, this is what I'm gonna go with on the stand and the defense attorney signed off on that?
50:18 Speaker 01 Maybe based on the one statement the defense attorney made.
50:22 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's true. I don't know what kind of defense attorney you got there. You know, not everyone is Perry Mason. We say this all the time. No matter what profession you're in, a certain percentage of people are the best of the best.
50:36 Speaker 01 True.
50:37 Speaker 00 A large percentage are okay.
50:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:41 Speaker 00 They're competent. And then another percentage are just not good. That you find that in every walk of life. I'm not saying this defense attorney was a bad dude, but you know, based on the statement he made, I do question a little bit.
50:57 Speaker 01 Normally you want that top tier, if you can.
51:00 Speaker 00 If you can get it.
51:01 Speaker 01 Doctor, sure.
51:01 Speaker 00 You know,
51:03 Speaker 01 attorney, uh, someone that cuts your hair.
51:07 Speaker 00 Any, anything where my life is kind of in somebody's hands.
51:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:12 Speaker 00 I would prefer to have the best of the best.
51:14 Speaker 01 Or the left, rest of our hair that we have, you know, we want the best, like.
51:19 Speaker 00 I don't care about barbers. I don't have enough hair to care about that. Although testified that afterwards, I got back in my car. I sat there a little bit. I'm in a real pickle. I'm in a real mess now. That's what he said on the stand.
51:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, you think?
51:34 Speaker 00 I'm in a pickle. Dude, you're in way more than a pickle. You're in deep shit.
51:40 Speaker 01 You're up a creek without a paddle.
51:42 Speaker 00 Aldo then went inside to confront Barbara and see his son. He found Elijah crying in a bathroom. Barbara told him to get out. Aldo laid his gun down and went into the bathroom to get Elijah. After putting him in a crib in the bedroom, he went into the hall to argue with Barbara. Aldo testified that she lunged for the gun. He said, "We were fighting for the gun and it went off into her stomach. She fell back on the bed. I looked in to see what happened. It was so surreal. I was just so mad. She wouldn't let me have my babies. I just wanted to see my babies."
52:21 Speaker 00 He shot Barbara again, aiming for the chest, but it hit her neck instead, leaving a large hole under her chin.
52:29 Speaker 01 Well, I accidentally shot her when we were struggling for the gun in her stomach. But then I decided to go ahead and kill her. Does that make sense?
52:36 Speaker 00 No. Does that not make the first statement unbelievable? How many times do you hear that? Well, the gun went off as we were wrestling for it.
52:47 Speaker 01 And he clearly says, "She's on the bed now."
52:49 Speaker 00 Aldo then shot the TV because he felt angry and out of control. So the one thing we haven't talked about is, and I don't know the answer to this question, but how did this guy even get a gun? You would assume that any guns he owned at the time he was indicted, charged, released on bail, those would have been taken away, right?
53:13 Speaker 01 You would think if they knew about them.
53:16 Speaker 00 Yeah. I don't know what the, what the law is on that. I mean, he's not convicted yet.
53:22 Speaker 01 Right. Well.
53:24 Speaker 00 But that's, it's a real dangerous situation when you have somebody charged with what he was charged with. Couple that with the letters and you've got a guy out on bond who has access to guns. That's a scary thought. During cross-examination, ADA Tim Flathers asked Aldo, "You felt threatened physically by Mr. Wiggs?" Aldo responded, I took it as he'd throw those cans at me.
53:53 Speaker 01 Those cans. Reminds me of that show, uh, The Jerk. Do you remember that?
53:58 Speaker 00 Yeah, where they're shooting the oil.
54:02 Speaker 00 The ADA asked, so you thought he was going to throw some Diet Pepsis at you and you shot him? Aldo responded, yes, sir.
54:12 Speaker 01 I was worried. Those Pepsi cans come flying at me. I don't know. They could, they could do some real harm.
54:18 Speaker 00 Aldo was asked if he meant to shoot Barbara. He responded, I don't know what I meant to do at the moment. Mr. Flathers, it was a surreal moment thing. He explained that he shot Barbara a second time because she was angry about the first shot.
54:34 Speaker 01 You think? You've effing shot me in the stomach, you asshole.
54:39 Speaker 00 Who is not going to be upset that you shot them?
54:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:43 Speaker 00 So his explanation is I shot her the second time because she was mad at me about the first shot.
54:51 Speaker 01 I just wanted to shut her up.
54:52 Speaker 00 He said he lied to the hostess negotiator about Barbara being okay because he was afraid SWAT would come in and shoot him. He began to worry about the kids during the negotiation. He said that he thought to himself, look at what I've done. How can you do this to your kids? I didn't want to go on without my family.
55:14 Speaker 01 Guys like that do all that thinking afterwards.
55:17 Speaker 00 Well, and even then he, he didn't say anything about Barbara, right? He was, even if he was being truthful there, it was only, how could I do this to the kids?
55:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:29 Speaker 00 But you go back to the letter and he said to the kids that they would be better off without both mom and dad. The prosecutor asked Aldo why he didn't express any remorse during his three hours on the phone. He responded, I shot my head off. You don't think that's remorse? No, actually I don't. I, I don't see that as remorse at all. I, I feel like if you go back to the letter, that was the culmination of, of a plan he had had for some time.
56:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't think he shot himself for remorse.
56:02 Speaker 00 No, he had planned in the earlier incident, right? To shoot Barbara and then shoot himself.
56:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:10 Speaker 00 So now in this one, he's just following the same game plan. In closing arguments, the prosecutor told the jury, per the Odessa American, the defendant's version of events is a fantasy version he's cooked up in his own mind. And I would have to agree with that. This guy is just living in his own fantasy world where he's concocting this stuff, right, to, to try to explain what he did. But there's no explanation that's going to make sense other than what really happened or why he did it for real. As you said, you know, at that point, people are just throwing stuff at the wall.
56:53 Speaker 00 The defense countered, the bottom line is that he took responsibility for what happened. He told you what his intent was. We can talk about inconsistencies in the state's case all day long, but the biggest is that the state can't tell you what happened in the house that day. Mr. Pacheco did. And this is something that you bring up a lot, Gibbs. Well, why can't the state tell you exactly what happened in the house that day? It's because Barbara died.
57:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, she's no longer around to tell her side of the story.
57:25 Speaker 00 And Aldo is the only one that is. But does that mean that his version of events is true? Oh, absolutely not. I mean, he has a vested interest, right? In crafting a narrative that makes him look better.
57:40 Speaker 01 And if you're a murderer, you're probably gonna be a liar as well.
57:45 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't, I don't know how many people say, I got no problem with murder, but lying is where I draw the line.
57:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
57:53 Speaker 00 Can't bend the truth. The defense asked the jury to consider a lesser conviction of murder or aggravated assault. Aggravated assault? The man killed two people.
58:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's not gonna happen.
58:07 Speaker 00 On November 16th, 2006, Aldo was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to life without parole, which we said they already took the death penalty off the table. So that that would have been the the maximum he could have gotten. Barbara's aunt Lucy Valles told the press afterwards, "We got to and people got to see the truth that she was a good mother. She was a wonderful, caring, dedicated mother who protected her children, so much so that she gave her life for them." And I think you can look at that a couple of different ways. You know, she made the decision to leave the relationship. And it sounded
58:47 Speaker 00 to me, Gibbs, like the final straw was the way Aldo was treating the children. So in that sense, you can make the argument that she, you know, did lose her life in the process of protecting her children.
59:02 Speaker 01 That's true.
59:03 Speaker 00 Now, it could also be some of the actions that occurred in the house that day. You know, what did she do to try to ensure Elijah's safety? Did she bargain with Aldo? Let Elijah go? I'll stay with you. Or we don't know.
59:21 Speaker 01 Right, right.
59:22 Speaker 00 What could have happened? My thought is that she probably did everything she could.
59:26 Speaker 01 I think most moms would.
59:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, to protect Elijah. Aldo's appeal was denied in June 2008. His daughter Bonnie told the show American Monster, "I could never imagine my dad turning into the monster he did. I think he struggled with inner demons that I never saw before. And I think that he wanted so badly for things to go his way, but it would never go back to the way it was." Aldo Pacheco was angered by his perceived lack of control after Barbara filed for divorce and gained custody of the children. This anger worsened when she started seeing someone else, causing Aldo to decide that no one else could have her. He believed that his
1:00:09 Speaker 00 children would be better off with both of their parents gone rather than divorced.
1:00:14 Speaker 01 You know what control freaks hate?
1:00:16 Speaker 00 Losing control.
1:00:17 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
1:00:18 Speaker 00 Yeah. And we see that in so many cases, right? You have these men, most of times men, sometimes women too, but you have someone who's very controlled and
1:00:29 Speaker 00 It's that point in time where they can no longer control the person. They lose the control and that's when they really snap. And that happens very often.
1:00:44 Speaker 01 You know, like his daughter said, of course, they're not going to go back to the way it ever was because she got away from him controlling her.
1:00:52 Speaker 00 Yeah. And, you know, I, I think at some point she did start this relationship with Eric. She probably realized, oh, so this is what it's like, you know, to date someone who treats you with respect and dignity. And, you know, in a, a way that most, everyone should be treated. She might've forgotten what that was. After so many years of being abused and, and controlled.
1:01:23 Speaker 01 You know, Otto really thought highly of himself to make that statement towards the end that we read. That the kids would be better off without both of them. I mean, he's really thinking pretty highly of himself.
1:01:36 Speaker 00 Yeah. Rather than, than having both parents alive, but then being divorced.
1:01:42 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah.
1:01:44 Speaker 00 As if so many of us didn't go through that scenario. Is it ideal? No, obviously it's not, but many of us went through it. I did. I turned out halfway decent.
1:01:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:57 Speaker 00 I surely would rather have both of my parents alive and divorced than both of them dead.
1:02:05 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:02:06 Speaker 00 That's just, that makes no sense. The, the thought that someone, Eric, was so threatening with the, with some Pepsi, Diet Pepsi can.
1:02:17 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:02:18 Speaker 00 First of all, I don't know how fast you can throw a Diet Pepsi can. Most people can at least have some reflexes. They can move left or right. You know what you can't move out of the way of?
1:02:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:32 Speaker 00 A bullet.
1:02:33 Speaker 01 I know.
1:02:34 Speaker 00 But a Diet Pepsi can, I, I can probably dodge that.
1:02:38 Speaker 01 I'd be more worried about opening that Diet Pepsi can and telling me to drink whatever that diet stuff in there is.
1:02:44 Speaker 00 It's probably more dangerous for you.
1:02:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:47 Speaker 00 Hopefully Diet Pepsi's not a sponsor on this episode, but.
1:02:50 Speaker 01 They are, you know, nothing like a ice cold Pepsi on a warm day. You can just hear it pouring over the ice.
1:02:58 Speaker 00 But it's probably, it's probably more dangerous than having someone throw a Diet Pepsi can at you from any distance at all. Now, if you're right up next to somebody, okay, I get it. You could, you could hurt them pretty badly.
1:03:10 Speaker 01 It's not like we all haven't had a can thrown at us now and then, right?
1:03:14 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, I, I throw one at you at least once a month.
1:03:18 Speaker 01 I play dodge can all the time with you.
1:03:20 Speaker 00 If you can dodge a can, you can dodge a ball.
1:03:22 Speaker 01 Exactly right. I'm just glad you're not throwing the wrenches anymore.
1:03:26 Speaker 00 But in all seriousness, you know, as we wrap this one up, unfortunately, it's a scenario that we see all too often. Now, a lot of the details are different, but the underlying currents and the, the, the way of thinking is often eerily similar. You have a man who's losing control. He's a very controlling person. And when he loses that control, it's, I'd rather kill this person than live without them. I'd rather kill this person than let them be happy with someone else. I'd rather kill this person and kill myself and leave
1:04:10 Speaker 00 my four children to grow up without either parent than get divorced. I mean, to, to most of us, it's just, it makes no sense, right? It's the, the thinking is so flawed. But I don't know, in his mind, maybe it made perfect sense and maybe that's the scary part. But that's it for our episode on Aldo Pacheco. We got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out?
1:04:37 Speaker 01 Let's hear them.
1:04:38 Speaker 03 Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Brandy in the Fort Worth area. Just found the podcast about four or five weeks ago, and I just listened to the Chris Bonet, uh, part one and part two. Um, just wanted to say I love the podcast. Keep up the good work and keep your own time ticking. And I don't have a team. I think you both complement each other very well. Just keep up the good work. Thanks.
1:05:04 Speaker 00 All right. Appreciate the voicemail. Glad you found the podcast.
1:05:07 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
1:05:08 Speaker 00 Tell your friends.
1:05:09 Speaker 01 Family.
1:05:10 Speaker 00 Strangers.
1:05:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:12 Speaker 00 Melman. If you're like Gibby, just, you know, you're on the subway, just grab somebody's phone and just subscribe to the podcast. That's what he does.
1:05:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, just do that. I mean, you're in Fort Worth, so you just pull some truck over and say, hey, give me your phone.
1:05:26 Speaker 00 Pull a truck over.
1:05:28 Speaker 01 Truck over.
1:05:29 Speaker 00 You might be taking it too far.
1:05:31 Speaker 03 Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Nikki Thompson from Huntington, Indiana. First time caller, so I'm a little nervous. I actually stumbled across your podcast on Pandora around Thanksgiving last year. So clearly new listener, but I'm almost caught up and to my surprise, I got to hear my Patreon shout out today on the Raymond Finch, that Raymond Finch episode.
1:05:54 Speaker 03 And a strange winky face, as Gibby might say about that episode is he died on May 15th of 1995, which would have been my 13th birthday, which is creepy. But anyhow, I emailed you guys yesterday about update on the barista, wrapping weird ties into one of my dad's best friends. So I thought you guys might want to hear that. I love what you're doing. You guys keep me entertained eight hours a day building trucks at General Motors. And thank you for that. I love your banter. I love your guys' dynamic. Keep doing what you're doing and keep your own time ticking. Bye.
1:06:30 Speaker 00 All right. She might have built our trucks.
1:06:32 Speaker 01 That's what I was thinking.
1:06:33 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:06:34 Speaker 01 She might add a hand in on it.
1:06:35 Speaker 00 She might have. We don't know. Gibby and I have the same truck. For anybody who's not heard that story, I bought mine and then Gibby took a look at it and he said, you know what? I think I'd like one just like it.
1:06:47 Speaker 01 And I got it.
1:06:48 Speaker 00 It's the exact same model, only a different color.
1:06:51 Speaker 01 I just want to know with that one button that says do not push. So I haven't pushed it yet.
1:06:55 Speaker 00 I had that installed special for you.
1:06:57 Speaker 01 Was that why?
1:06:57 Speaker 00 It's an ejection seat like James Bond. I would not push it.
1:07:01 Speaker 01 I haven't yet.
1:07:02 Speaker 00 Cause it only is for the driver's side.
1:07:04 Speaker 01 Is that what?
1:07:05 Speaker 00 I think he always had his on the other side or something in case somebody got in the car. This one's the driver's side. It's going to shoot you right through the roof. All right. Appreciate the voicemail. Glad you found the, uh, the podcast and caught up pretty quickly because, uh, we have a plethora of episodes out there right now.
1:07:22 Speaker 01 Plethora?
1:07:23 Speaker 00 Uh huh. A cornucopia of nature's treasures.
1:07:26 Speaker 01 Cornucopia.
1:07:28 Speaker 00 All right, buddy. That is it. We had no mailbag. So that's it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.
1:07:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, give me.
1:07:35 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
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