Wolf Attack - The Worst Way to Wake Up

To kick off the spookiest of seasons, Wes tells Jeff and Mike about one family's outdoor adventure that ended in violence, and their struggle to make it out alive. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/o_XZtVd0inM ~ LMNT - Get a free 8-count Sample Pack of LMNT's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/tooth. Hims - Ready to build a better sex life? Visit https://hims.com/tooth for a personalized plan—for sex, hair, weight loss and more. Quince - https://quince.com/tooth Ethos - Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/tooth. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. Trustpilot rating as of 8/1/2026. Ollie Pet Food - Ollie. Feed the Obsession. Go to https://ollie.com/tooth and use code TOOTH to get 70% off your first box! Boxiecat - For a limited time, save up to 40% off your order when you head to https://Boxiecat.com/TOOTH. ~ To advertise on the show, contact us! Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/c/toothandclawpodcast ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social: Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Wes Larson?

  You guys have heard me talk a lot about my cat Toad. There are so many things that I love about him. He's funny. He's affectionate. Uh, he's just really fun to have around the house. But there is one thing that I really don't like about cats, and that is that their poop smells really, really bad. And that's why I'm really excited to tell you guys about my new favorite cat product. Can imagine a world where your cat's litter box never smelled again, and that dream has finally become a reality with Boxie. Boxie is the last cat litter you'll switch to. Their Boxie Pro Deep Clean is the best cat litter money can buy. The Pro in Boxie Pro stands for probiotics, which Boxie puts right in the litter. It gobbles up odor-causing bacteria, keeps the box continuously odor-free, continuously, not just for a couple of days,

• 0:43Wes Larson?

  infinite days of continual odor-freeness, and your cat's not going to smell anything either. That means there's no fake scents, which gives them like one less reason to avoid the box. Uh, we've tried cat litters before that have those fake scents. Toad doesn't like them, and we actually hate them too, because it kind of just smells like flowery poop, then it's almost worse than just the normal poop smell. And for me, it's really interesting to finally have like a favorite cat litter. It's something I never thought I would have. But Boxie is one of our favorite sponsors because we never smell his poop anymore. So save up to 40% during Boxie's biggest offers of the season, including Amazon Prime Day deals, Black Friday and Cyber Monday by heading to B O X I E cat dot com backslash tooth.

• 1:28Wes Larson?

  That's up to 40% off at boxiecat.com slash tooth.

• 1:46Jeff Larson?

  Hello, everyone. Uh, oh, man, what is this?

• 1:50Wes Larson?

  Tooth and Claw Podcast.

• 1:51Jeff Larson?

  Tooth and Claw Podcast. I really froze there. I'm Mitch McConnell.

• 1:58Jeff Larson?

  Welcome back to Tooth and Claw Podcast. This is a wildlife podcast where we love animals. Well, two of us love animals and one of us kind of does, and we talk about them. We talk about a lot of encounters with dangerous animals. People die, people survive, and that's, that's us.

• 2:20Wes Larson?

  But yeah, that's exactly.

• 2:22Mike Smith?

  Show me where he was wrong, Wes. Show me where he was wrong.

• 2:26Wes Larson?

  If this is your first time listening to the show, we do talk about animal attacks, but we try and do the animals justice. Uh, the media tends to demonize them, and we're not all about that. But it is scary season. It's spooky season, you two, and.

• 2:42Jeff Larson?

  So we will demonize them.

• 2:44Wes Larson?

  No, but we tend to lean into the spookier aspects of, of our subject matter this month.

• 2:52Jeff Larson?

  To me, humans are the spookiest animals.

• 2:55Wes Larson?

  Oh, that's crazy, dude. You should have that as your new bio on your Instagram.

• 3:01Jeff Larson?

  That's how much I love animals.

• 3:04Wes Larson?

  Yep. So this month is, it's going to be our first of a few, uh, episodes that are dedicated to, uh, kind of the spookier things of the world. And, uh, I kind of always have a hard time figuring out what to do. Like, it was easy on our first years to pick like vampire bats and, uh,

• 3:23Jeff Larson?

  man.

• 3:24Wes Larson?

  like werewolves and stuff, but now it's getting a little trickier.

• 3:27Jeff Larson?

  If you were to change Mount Rushmore into spooky animals, what would you choose for the four?

• 3:35Wes Larson?

  Vampire bats are on there.

• 3:37Mike Smith?

  Draculas.

• 3:39Wes Larson?

  Dracula. Let's not forget him. I would probably put, uh, leeches in there for me personally, centipedes.

• 3:48Mike Smith?

  Worms in RFK's brain, maybe?

• 3:51Wes Larson?

  Yeah, and those brain worms.

• 3:53Jeff Larson?

  I think I'd have a shark.

• 3:55Wes Larson?

  A shark? Which shark?

• 3:57Jeff Larson?

  I'd have a shark, a black widow, a vampire bat, and.

• 4:03Mike Smith?

  Zombie.

• 4:05Jeff Larson?

  Frog.

• 4:08Wes Larson?

  Mike.

• 4:08Jeff Larson?

  I ran out of Steve Matt, dude.

• 4:10Wes Larson?

  Very curious. A Dracula, a zombie.

• 4:14Mike Smith?

  Mitch McConnell. No, who had the worms? One of those guys had worms.

• 4:18Wes Larson?

  That's RFK. Yeah.

• 4:20Mike Smith?

  And Epstein.

• 4:21Wes Larson?

  They all got worms. We all probably have worms. Well, today, we're not going to talk about any of those things. We're going to talk about Dracula's best friend.

• 4:32Jeff Larson?

  Oh, Mike did say Dracula, actually.

• 4:34Wes Larson?

  Yep.

• 4:35Mike Smith?

  Not his best friend, but I was close.

• 4:37Wes Larson?

  What animals do you guys associate with Dracula?

• 4:40Jeff Larson?

  Bats.

• 4:42Wes Larson?

  Bats.

• 4:43Mike Smith?

  Woofs.

• 4:44Wes Larson?

  Wolves.

• 4:45Jeff Larson?

  Really?

• 4:46Wes Larson?

  Yes. So that's the surprising thing.

• 4:49Mike Smith?

  The Carpathian Mountains.

• 4:50Wes Larson?

  When you read the original, yeah, the original text of Bram Stoker's Dracula, there are dozens of mentions of wolves. There's really just one mention of bats. Uh, there's a scene where Dracula does turn into a bat and he flies in a straight line,

• 5:07Wes Larson?

  uh, which is like a very interesting detail, but there are lots and lots of mention of wolves. Both wild wolves that Dracula can control, and then he also can turn into a wolf. Uh, Dracula is kind of a werewolf.

• 5:23Mike Smith?

  So that saying should really be as Dracula's bat flies instead of as the crow flies, right?

• 5:30Wes Larson?

  We're changing it to that.

• 5:31Jeff Larson?

  Well, then that makes it like so much easier. You don't have to pick between Jacob and Edward. It can just be the same.

• 5:40Mike Smith?

  Good point. Yeah.

• 5:42Wes Larson?

  And I do think, I've thought about this a bit, and I'm not sure. So you cryptid people can get at me with this, but it feels like the difference is a werewolf can't control their transformation, but Dracula can. So technically, he's not a werewolf. He's more of like a shapeshifter, but he does shapeshift into like a man wolf sometimes.

• 6:03Jeff Larson?

  I'm pretty sure Jacob can control it.

• 6:07Wes Larson?

  Uh, that's true. I think Jacob can control it. So is he even a werewolf?

• 6:13Mike Smith?

  I don't know. In the books, I heard that the werewolves, they tie their pants to their legs so they don't lose them when they transform. And then when they turn back, they have pants on their leg again.

• 6:24Wes Larson?

  Twilight.

• 6:25Mike Smith?

  That's what I've heard. I don't know if that's true.

• 6:28Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, that would be.

• 6:30Mike Smith?

  Smart, right?

• 6:31Jeff Larson?

  That'd be like what the Hulk should do, because I don't.

• 6:34Wes Larson?

  You're going through a lot of clothes.

• 6:36Mike Smith?

  No, Hulk, his pants change with him. They're like wear pants.

• 6:40Jeff Larson?

  They expand a lot.

• 6:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 6:43Mike Smith?

  Like spandex.

• 6:44Wes Larson?

  Super stretchy spandex. Yeah.

• 6:46Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, but I guess, yeah.

• 6:49Wes Larson?

  All right. So in the text, Dracula has a real fondness for wolves. He lovingly calls them the children of the night. And later in the, in the book, he demonstrates that he can make packs of wolves do his bidding. Um, so I do think when we think of wolves and Halloween, most people think of werewolves, but there's actually a lot of crossover with vampires as well, or at least the biggest and baddest vampire. So like we just mentioned in a lot of modern movies, vampires and werewolves are kind of shown to be each other's biggest enemies, like Twilight in the underworld. But I really want to reiterate that the text that brought vampires to the Western world, like Dracula, wolves and Dracula are pretty tight.

• 7:30Mike Smith?

  Cool.

• 7:31Wes Larson?

  So this relationship's pretty evident in my all-time favorite vampire movie, which is Bram Stoker's Dracula, directed by Francis Ford Coppola. There's several scenes with wolves that do Dracula's bidding. There's a scene where he turns into a giant werewolf and eats a young bride.

• 7:47Jeff Larson?

  That redhead, right?

• 7:48Wes Larson?

  Yeah, yeah. And there's, there's a scene where him and a, like a escaped wolf from the zoo kind of have a moment too.

• 7:55Jeff Larson?

  Uh-uh.

• 7:56Wes Larson?

  So basically, when I was thinking this year of Halloween-associated animals.

• 8:00Mike Smith?

  Sound you just made. Is there a follow-up to that sound?

• 8:05Jeff Larson?

  I think I was surprised that there is a wolf at the zoo, and then I realized like, no, wolves are in the zoo.

• 8:13Mike Smith?

  Yeah, wolves can be, werewolves maybe is where.

• 8:16Jeff Larson?

  I kind of like mid-surprise tried to be like, oh, wait, no, that's not surprising.

• 8:24Jeff Larson?

  My zoo doesn't have wolves. So I was like, wow, wolves at the zoo.

• 8:27Wes Larson?

  The whole zoo has wolves.

• 8:29Jeff Larson?

  No, it doesn't.

• 8:30Wes Larson?

  They did up until recently.

• 8:32Jeff Larson?

  Like 10 years ago.

• 8:33Wes Larson?

  Oh, you're right. It's where the foxes are now. They used to have wolves there. Okay. Basically, when I was thinking about Halloween this year and associated animals to feature in an episode, I decided to go back to wolves because they really do feature heavily in a lot of our monster stories. And I think our history with this animal is the main reason for that. And we've talked a lot about how in North America, there really isn't a lot of history of attacks on humans when it comes to wolves. But elsewhere in the world, there really is. And Europe during the second part of the millennium, or the second millennium, so like, and before that, honestly, had a ton of wolf conflict.

• 9:12Wes Larson?

  There's a historian that specialized in rural French history, and he estimated that between 1362 and 1918, about 10,000 people were killed by wolves in France alone.

• 9:25Jeff Larson?

  Whoa, that is exactly a ton, right? 10,000?

• 9:29Wes Larson?

  2,000's a ton.

• 9:30Jeff Larson?

  Oh, okay. So that's five tons.

• 9:33Wes Larson?

  Five tons of people. Yeah.

• 9:36Wes Larson?

  That's a really big number, but it's also a 550-year range. So if you divide it out, that averages to about 18 people a year. Um, but there was definitely years where a lot more people died than others.

• 9:48Jeff Larson?

  And they probably didn't count all of them.

• 9:50Wes Larson?

  It is. Yeah. And I doubt they got all of them. And that's just France. Um, so there is a history with this animal. And I think because of that history, and because this was kind of the main animal for a lot of people in Europe that they were afraid of during a time when also a lot of our literature and history and whatnot were being written in the Western world, that fear of wolves is really reflected in a lot of our stories and books and fairy tales and art, including the 1897 novel Dracula, which was written by Irishman Bram Stoker.

• 10:28Wes Larson?

  So with better technology to protect ourselves, with, um, better technology to protect our livestock, overall, just kind of modernization, as well as the overall eradication of rabies in a lot of places, wolf attacks on humans have plummeted. And now they're incredibly rare across their range with a few notable hotspots where they still occur, especially places like India has a large number of wolf attacks still.

• 10:52Mike Smith?

  Shout out AI, right? That's probably what's been helping us so much.

• 10:56Wes Larson?

  What's doing it.

• 10:57Jeff Larson?

  You know who's still really afraid of wolves in, like, the United States? That was Joe Rogan.

• 11:04Wes Larson?

  That's true.

• 11:06Jeff Larson?

  He'll, he'll get on him, he'll be like, no, they'll, he'll kill your whole family. And then I think it's because he solely eats elk meat.

• 11:16Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 11:16Jeff Larson?

  So then it's like, is a real threat to his.

• 11:19Wes Larson?

  Well, yeah. Wolves are one of the most highly politicized animals because they're, they're kind of on the front line between environmentalism and agriculture. Like there is, and then hunting too. And those are like, interest groups that are recommend, that are like, represented by very different sides of the political spectrum. And wolves are kind of used as a, a bargaining chip or like a tool to make points or gain points on the other side. And I hate that. I don't think they deserve that. And this isn't an animal that attacks people in the U S. It really doesn't. There are rare, rare instances where it happens. Let's not get too deep into this yet. We can get into it a little bit later.

• 12:01Wes Larson?

  But attacks are incredibly rare in North America. There's only two fatal attacks on record. One in Canada in two thousand and five, which we're going to still do an episode on. And the other one in Alaska in two thousand and ten, which we covered, that was that school teacher that was running alone, uh, and was killed by a pack of wolves. Now wolf advocates, myself included, are very quick to point out these stats as a way to illustrate that of our large mammals in the U S, wolves are one, really one of the least likely to harm humans. But that doesn't mean that they're harmless. They are large, intelligent, highly successful carnivores that have the potential to be dangerous

• 12:41Wes Larson?

  and need to be treated with a lot of respect, which was a lesson that a family learned the hard way in nineteen ninety six in Algonquin Provincial Park in Ontario. And even though I don't think this was one of Dracula's wolves, you just never know. You know, it could be. So just keep that in mind, Mike.

• 12:59Jeff Larson?

  Oh, man.

• 13:00Mike Smith?

  Always. Yeah. It's my default thought is that it is.

• 13:03Jeff Larson?

  Honestly, that's the way to get Rogan because he'll buy into those types of thoughts. So if you just tell him wolves are Dracula and they're framing the other real wolves, he'll be like, oh, you're right.

• 13:18Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 13:20Jeff Larson?

  That's interesting. Jamie, pull that up.

• 13:26Wes Larson?

  That does.

• 13:28Wes Larson?

  That does kind of feel like the pot called.

• 13:30Mike Smith?

  So open minded.

• 13:31Wes Larson?

  Pot calling the kettle black to Jeff.

• 13:34Jeff Larson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:36Wes Larson?

  Free fall speed. Conspiracy. Your conspiracy.

• 13:38Mike Smith?

  Free fall speed.

• 13:40Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 13:43Jeff Larson?

  I used to always like an energy drink before I went fly fishing or played a sport. Or if I was going to play a round of golf, but it's been really easy and beneficial to switch that over to Element's new iced tea flavor with a little bit of caffeine, which is super helpful because I used to have a huge crash afterwards and now I don't. Actually, I went golfing two days ago and I forgot my water bottle in the golf cart. And I was getting upset because it still had Element iced tea in there and it tasted so good that I was upset that I left it there. And then I realized, hey, that is kind of an expensive water bottle that that was in. Maybe that's what I should be worried about. But nope, I want that iced tea element. I've stopped giving that one away because it's just one of my favorites.

• 14:27Jeff Larson?

  And I'm holding on to it dearly because as I've told you, I'm now the most popular person at my entire apartment complex. And it's all because I give people Element each month. But don't take my word for it. Actually, you should. But also it's trusted by Stanford neuroscientists, functional nutritionists, and professional athletes across the NFL, NBA, NHL, and CrossFit. Also, it's world-class customer service, so no question asked refunds. Try Element and see how you feel. If for any reason you're not satisfied, Element's customer service team will take care of you. So get a free eight-count sample pack of Element's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase

• 15:08Jeff Larson?

  at drinklmnt.com/tooth. Find your favorite flavor or share it with a friend.

• 15:16Wes Larson?

  All right. I grew up in the eighties and nineties. During that time, kids had a lot more freedom to spend a lot of time outdoors, exploring like creeks and forests and meadows and whatnot. And that sure seemed to be the case for Zach Delventhal as well. His parents saw a lot of value in letting him spend large amounts of time outside in Ontario where he grew up. And as often as possible, they would go on family camping and wilderness trips so they could share some of those experiences outside together. In mid-August nineteen ninety six, the Delventhal family had decided to take a nine-day trip to Algonquin Provincial Park. And little Zach is twelve years old at the time. They'd settled on campgrounds that were only accessible by canoe.

• 15:57Wes Larson?

  So basically like to picture this place, Algonquin is this, it's kind of like a series of lakes that are all closely connected. Lots of trees, lots of forest, and people would do these long trips where they canoe across the lakes. Sometimes portage, sometimes like take the little creeks to connect in between lakes. And you can go to a lot of lakes and explore a lot of territory that way.

• 16:21Jeff Larson?

  He's eighty-four in wolf years.

• 16:24Wes Larson?

  At twelve? Yeah. Is twelve times seven eighty-four? Yes. Yes. All right.

• 16:31Mike Smith?

  Are they the same as dog years?

• 16:33Wes Larson?

  I know they're related. No, I don't think they are because wolves like in the wild only live to be like three to four years old.

• 16:39Mike Smith?

  Yeah. So this guy is like a billion.

• 16:41Wes Larson?

  Billion years old. All right. So they had settled on these campgrounds that are only accessible by canoe. And Zach, his parents, his two younger brothers, load all their camping gear into the car. They strap their canoes to the top and they drive out to this lake system that's going to connect them to these campgrounds. They start paddling toward their first campsite. Zach really loves his two younger brothers. He's close with Eli, who's only two years younger than him, uh, and was ten at the time. And then he's really doing his best to bond with little Willem, who's eight years younger than him and only three at this time. He feels very protective as the older brother. Jeff, we grew up in a three brother family. Like, we know there's like some very strong relationships there often.

• 17:25Jeff Larson?

  Now you guys were a fed meter that was.

• 17:27Wes Larson?

  That's not true. That's not true. Uh, at this age, this was like the age where me and Cyrus were kind of competitive for Jeff's attention. So he feels very protective and as they paddle along the heavily forested shores of these lakes, he's feeling a lot of love for his brothers, for his family. He's really excited for this adventure that they're going on. His parents, Tom and Tracy, had planned like a pretty aggressive trip. They wanted to get as far out into the wilderness as possible. They'd had days where they paddled eight hours and had to move the canoes across different lakes. They would spend a night or two in a campsite and then go even deeper into the wilderness by canoeing and portaging. And they had really good weather. And the last night of the trip, they actually didn't make it to the lake they had planned on reaching.

• 18:12Wes Larson?

  So they stopped on the lake where they were and they found an open campsite. And Zach's parents are really exhausted at this point, but Zach and Eli really want to paddle into the middle of the lake to watch the sunset go down. And they managed to convince their dad, Tom, to go with them while Tracy's cooking dinner. So they had this very zen moment out in the middle of the lake. They're watching the sun go down. While it's setting, they see a moose feed on some aquatic vegetation. They're surprised to see some canoes from a local Boy Scout troop and they paddle over to say hi. And some of these scouts really excitedly say that they'd seen a wolf in the area earlier and that they're going to howl to see if it responded. And something I learned is that in Algonquin Provincial Park at this time,

• 18:56Wes Larson?

  this was kind of like a thing that people did. There was even a program for a while where you could do wolf howls, where they would go out and howl and the wolves in that area had kind of learned to respond to human howls. And so there's like this thing where people would howl and the wolves would answer.

• 19:14Wes Larson?

  And they, they stopped doing it because it kind of felt like they were mixing, like kind of messing with nature too much. But, um, at this time, I think this was actively happening. This Boy Scout troop starts howling and the Delventhal's join in. And sure enough, they hear a lone howl that just echoes through the woods from the other end of the lake. It's eerie. It's four-auran sounding, but to Zach, it was really exciting because he had finally heard a real howl from a real wolf. So let's talk a little bit about this wolf. And this is, we're gonna get in the weeds a tiny bit here. On this show, we've had several stories involving gray wolves, including that 2010 fatality. And to be a hundred percent honest with you, when I started prepping this episode,

• 19:59Wes Larson?

  I was confident that we were talking about a gray wolf here, Canis lupus, the gray wolf. They're widely distributed across northern North America, Eurasia, all the way down to India. And I thought that's the animal we're dealing with here in Algonquin Provincial Park. But it turns out I might be wrong.

• 20:17Mike Smith?

  Wow.

• 20:18Wes Larson?

  This animal is actually an eastern wolf. It's also commonly called a timber wolf or an Algonquin wolf. And I'd heard of them before, but I always thought that it was just a subspecies, or maybe even an unofficial subspecies of gray wolf. But it turns out there's actually a fairly large contingent of mammal researchers that think that the eastern wolf is its own distinct species. And they've even given it the species name Canis lycone. Canis lycone, it's a hard one to say. The American Society of Mammalologists named it as a distinct species of wolf in 2021. So that's kind of amazing to me.

• 21:01Wes Larson?

  I thought that we were always just dealing with one species of wolf. And that like red wolves and eastern wolves and what other wolves, subspecies across the world, were still all gray wolves, they were just subspecies. But people are saying that this might be its own species of wolf that lives in this really small part of the world.

• 21:21Mike Smith?

  Do you think maybe it's just a scientist trying to be sneaky? And this is how he's gonna leave his mark?

• 21:26Wes Larson?

  Kinda do, to be honest.

• 21:28Mike Smith?

  Really? Like, you're gonna be the guy in a couple of years who discovers a ninth bear species.

• 21:35Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 21:35Mike Smith?

  It's your path.

• 21:38Mike Smith?

  It's a good move.

• 21:39Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, there's like spirit bears that are black bears in Canada. Wes is like, actually.

• 21:45Mike Smith?

  Actually, hold on.

• 21:45Jeff Larson?

  This is a different bear.

• 21:47Wes Larson?

  This is the west bear.

• 21:49Mike Smith?

  And then do the, many people are saying, actually, there's a ninth.

• 21:52Wes Larson?

  The American Society of Mammalologists. No, so I reached out to my friend Kira, who's a wolf researcher, a very accomplished one. She's like, I think, a genius. And she said that she sees them as a subspecies. And that a lot of wolf researchers, researchers see them as a subspecies. But basically, what this all comes down to it is how much these wolf species or subspecies mixed with coyotes in the past? And how much they evolved alongside coyotes? And maybe only share like a common ancestor with gray wolves? It's all pretty confusing. Like, if you look at the Wikipedia article for eastern wolves,

• 22:33Wes Larson?

  pretty much the entire thing is about all the debate of whether or not they're like their own thing.

• 22:40Wes Larson?

  Red wolves and eastern wolves have a lot of coyote mixed in with their genetics. Lots of hybridization over tens of thousands of years has led to wolves that are maybe distinct enough to be their own species. But pretty much every population of North American wolf does have some level of mixing with coyotes. So it's really deciding at what point that constitutes a new species that's the big debate. And there isn't like a single authority out there that says, yes, I bless this. Like, this is a new species. Maybe we should have the Pope do that, honestly.

• 23:14Wes Larson?

  You know?

• 23:14Mike Smith?

  Yeah, it's someone in a position of authority, yeah.

• 23:18Wes Larson?

  Well, he can ask God, and it's God that created all of them, right?

• 23:22Mike Smith?

  True. And he's busy cheering for the White Sox. Wait till after the playoffs. He's a little distracted right now.

• 23:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah. So for the purposes of today's episode, we are going to treat them as a distinct species with a really big asterix. And I want to give them some quick facts on how they're different.

• 23:41Mike Smith?

  Just the way I like my asterisks.

• 23:43Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 23:44Mike Smith?

  Really big one. Big, oh man. Look at the asterisk on that one.

• 23:49Jeff Larson?

  Timber wolves are like more clumsy, right? They can't catch the ball. They can't shoot in the post. Rudy Gobert.

• 23:57Wes Larson?

  Right?

• 23:57Mike Smith?

  Yeah. French.

• 23:59Jeff Larson?

  French.

• 24:00Mike Smith?

  Oh, it's all lining up. His people got ravaged by wolves.

• 24:05Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I don't, I'm not saying that I think they're a distinct species, but we're just gonna treat them that way for this episode, just to kind of have a new animal to talk about. But we're not really sure. But here are some differences between them and like your typical gray wolf. First and foremost, and kind of to be expected for a wolf with extra coyote in it, they're a bit smaller and a bit lankier than gray wolves. They also often have a coloration that has more like cinnamon in it. It looks like a mix between wolves and coyotes. There's more like tan and rufous coloration than you would see in like Canis lupus. And they're not, they don't hardly ever have like a melanistic version, like a black wolf or a white wolf.

• 24:47Jeff Larson?

  Cinnamon in it?

• 24:48Wes Larson?

  What?

• 24:49Jeff Larson?

  I like how you added in it into cinnamon, because it's a cinnamon in it.

• 24:55Wes Larson?

  Cinnamon in it.

• 24:57Mike Smith?

  You're like Eminem, the way you say those words so fast. And how white you are.

• 25:05Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 25:07Wes Larson?

  I don't disagree. On average, females weigh about 55 pounds, males about 67 pounds.

• 25:15Jeff Larson?

  Six seven. You should save that for categories.

• 25:19Mike Smith?

  Shoot. Oh, good six, seven there, though. You gotta give Wes credit for that.

• 25:26Wes Larson?

  I actually didn't realize that when I put it in my notes. I just, I saw it right now. Again, it puts them right in between the average sizes of coyotes and wolves. But because they're a bit smaller, they don't really go for larger prey like wolves might, like elk and moose. But they do regularly kill deer, beavers, and other mid-sized prey.

• 25:45Jeff Larson?

  Oh, they're smaller than a gray wolf, huh?

• 25:48Wes Larson?

  Yes. Yep, smaller than a gray wolf, larger than a coyote. They do seem to be a bit more willing than North American gray wolves to investigate humans as prey. So maybe, Jeff, they just inherited a little bit more of that wyland gene that coyotes have. You know?

• 26:05Mike Smith?

  Common ancestor.

• 26:06Wes Larson?

  So just Algonquin Provincial Park, there are four different bites from eastern wolves from 1987 to 1996. All right, let's get back to the Delvin Fall family. By the time it got totally dark, they paddle back to their campsite. They have some mac and cheese. They get their campsite set up. It's a really nice night, so rather than set up the tents, they decide to just put down a couple tarps and sleep under the stars. On one of the tarps, you have the three boys. Willem's the one in the middle, he's the youngest. And then Zach is on the edge closest to the forest. And then the parents are asleep on another tarp a few yards away. And Zach has the habit of staying up and reading by lamplight. And when he turns off his lamp to go to bed,

• 26:49Wes Larson?

  he's totally amazed by this carpet of stars overhead. And he lays his head down. He drifts off to sleep with the cool, sweet breeze of this forest blowing through his hair and the cosmos just swirling overhead. It had been a perfect trip with his parents and his brothers, and he's kind of sad to see it come to an end. What the Delvin Fall family didn't know is that the lone wolf that they had heard howling is now standing in the darkness of the forest on the edge of their campsite. The final embers of their fire are glowing in its deep pools of its eyes, and it's studying this little family as they sleep. And unlike the wolves commanded by the immortal and ruined soul of Vlad the Impaler, this wolf is only acting on its own instincts.

• 27:33Wes Larson?

  As a lone wolf, it's responsible for securing all of its own food. And it alone had to analyze the different risks and the different rewards when it's sizing up potential prey. And while typically it'd given humans and human smells like a really wide berth, for some reason this night, it decided to investigate a bit more closely. And as it carefully steps now into the completely dark campsite, that reflective topetum lucidum behind its retinas gives it the ability to see three small shapes lying on the ground in front of it, all of them completely motionless, aside from the rising and falling of their bodies as they breathe while they slept. And this wolf takes another tentative step closer. And then another.

• 28:17Wes Larson?

  And then it opens its mouth and springs toward the figure closest to it and closest to the woods.

• 28:24Wes Larson?

  So as he's sleeping, Zach has a dream. He's walking down a beautiful path in the woods with his parents on a perfect day. When suddenly he feels an incredible pressure on his head and his face. That's so intense, it shakes him from his dreams and back into consciousness. He can no longer see the stars overhead. But he's staring up into the humid, snarling darkness. And he could only see the shapes of the trees in his peripheral vision as they're racing by. His 12 year old brain clicks back into something primal and he has the realization that something is biting him. It's biting his face and it's dragging him away. And that if he didn't do something, he was gonna die.

• 29:02Jeff Larson?

  That's a smart kid.

• 29:04Wes Larson?

  That's a smart kid, yeah.

• 29:08Jeff Larson?

  To realize that.

• 29:09Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 29:10Mike Smith?

  His brain was 12, Jeff. How old was he, though?

• 29:14Wes Larson?

  He's, he's 12. His brain's also 12. I would say like even at, you know, my age, if I suddenly wake up. And I can't see anything, there's just like a dark, humid thing in front of me. And the trees are whipping by, it would take me a second to realize what's going on. You know, it wouldn't be just like.

• 29:33Jeff Larson?

  What if you had heard a wolf that night, though?

• 29:35Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it would probably click in like it did for him, but it would take me a second.

• 29:40Jeff Larson?

  And like in my apartment complex, it'd take me a lot longer, is my point.

• 29:46Mike Smith?

  Shanks.

• 29:47Jeff Larson?

  Well, oh yeah, I do have shanks. And he does.

• 29:52Wes Larson?

  It's probably happened already, it was. Alright, so he knows.

• 29:56Jeff Larson?

  I'm not trying to say wasn't smart, I was just making a dumb joke.

• 30:01Wes Larson?

  That's alright. That's kind of, yeah, that's what you're here for. He starts screaming, suddenly the pressure's released and the trees stop moving. He falls to the ground at the feet of a large timber wolf, which then disappears. Blood starts pouring onto the ground in front of him.

• 30:19Jeff Larson?

  It just let him go because he screamed?

• 30:21Wes Larson?

  Yeah, when he started screaming, yeah. In shock, Zach cries out that something had bit him and his mom Tracy rushes to his side. She wraps him up in her arms and she brings him back to the tarp. It's dark and she can't really see the extent of his injuries, but she could feel a growing warm dampness on her shirt. And this hot spread of blood as she hells her, as she holds her son to her chest. And she knows that they're in some trouble. Calmly, she tells Tom that she needs help, but Tom is distracted. He'd been looking past the huddled form of his wife and his son at a dark shape that didn't look quite right.

• 30:59Wes Larson?

  And he has the realization that whatever just attacked his son is now only about three feet away from his wife and his injured boy. So he leaps out of his sleeping bag and he charges at this mystery attacker. It runs and then it turns and charges at Zach and his mom again. But again, Tom runs at it, he's screaming, he's yelling, and the wolf turns and runs. And Tom listens for the sounds of it crashing through the brush. But his heart sinks when he doesn't hear anything and he knows that it's still in the campsite with him, he just can't see it.

• 31:33Jeff Larson?

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• 32:17Jeff Larson?

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• 32:52Wes Larson?

  You know those pieces in your closet that you just find yourself wearing over and over and over again? That sweater that maybe goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants that fits you just right? Or the tee that you always reach for first? Those are the things that make getting dressed really easy and fun, and that is what Quince does best. Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. They have timeless styles, they're really versatile, and they're designed to become the dependable pieces that you reach for day after day. And their sweaters start at just $60. Those Mongolian cashmere sweaters that are 100% Mongolian cashmere start at just $60. Which gives you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag.

• 33:36Wes Larson?

  And I can vouch for that, every time I go on the Quince website, thinking, ah, maybe today I'm gonna buy a jacket or a sweater or something. I'm always thinking, man, this is gonna be so much more money than I want to spend. And it's always so much cheaper than I ever could have imagined. And the quality isn't cheap, I'm getting stuff that I absolutely love, but the price is cheap. And the reason that's possible is because Quince cuts out the middleman. They work directly with Ethical Factories, so you're paying for the high quality, not the brand markup. And truly, everything that I've gotten from Quince, I've loved. I love the sunglasses I have, I love the underwear I've gotten from them. I have a turtleneck sweater that I get compliments on every single time I wear it. I mean, there's a reason we've been partners with Quince for so long. And it's because all three of us just really love everything we've gotten from Quince.

• 34:20Wes Larson?

  So find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, please let them know it was Tooth and Claw. It's the best way to support our show. Once again, he can see a large moving shadow slinking and running through the campsite. And in fear, and through a blood covered face, Zach yells, "What is it?" to his dad. And meanwhile, 10 year old Eli has found a flashlight, he passes it to his mom, who turns it on. And she shines it around the campsite. She finally illuminates their mystery attacker. "It's a wolf," Tom yells out.

• 35:04Wes Larson?

  And he runs back to grab one of the canoe paddles to use as a weapon. And then turns around to chase the wolf, but it's already running back into the protection of the woods.

• 35:14Jeff Larson?

  They don't like light.

• 35:15Wes Larson?

  They don't, and they don't like a lot of commotion either. I think for this wolf, this easy, risk-free attempt at a meal had been one that just became filled with too many variables. And it decides to abandon its prey. So Tracy's now holding her son, who seems impossibly small, in his sleeping bag. And the blood is starting to feel heavy as this bag becomes just completely saturated. She yells at Tom that she needs something for the blood and he runs back to her with the towel and the flashlight. And as he flashes the light onto the mangled face of his 12 year old son, he mutters, "Oh my God." And then looks up at the stars to try and steady himself.

• 35:55Wes Larson?

  Which is probably not the right thing to say right after you look at your kid's face following the wolf attack. Maybe it's be like, wow, the stars sure are beautiful. Both parents know they have to get their son to the hospital. But they also kind of realize maybe they'd been a little bit too successful. When it came to getting their little family really far away from civilization. They know they're gonna have to paddle, portage, and drive for hours to get to the nearest help. And they're not sure Zach's gonna make it that long, but they know they have to try. So it's 2 AM, they're probably acting on a ton of adrenaline, but in the rush to get into the.

• 36:32Jeff Larson?

  Where's most of his blood coming out of?

• 36:34Wes Larson?

  His face, all of it's coming out of his face.

• 36:36Jeff Larson?

  So it's not like a neck or anything, it's just like his face is.

• 36:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah, there's no arterial bleeding from what I understand, but it's still like, he's bleeding a lot.

• 36:46Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 36:47Wes Larson?

  So they're kind of in a rush and to get to the canoe and on their way, they don't grab any of the life jackets. They just pile into the boat with Tracy in front, Eli right behind her, Willem in the middle, and then Zach and Tom in the back. And before leaving the campsite, they throw this bloody sleeping bag to the edge of the forest, thinking maybe it'll distract the wolf. In case it decides to like run out and chase them. A quick interjection, and I'm not judging these guys because you really only know how you're gonna act in a situation like this when it happens. But there are a few things they could have done to make this a little bit less dire and a little bit less stressful for them. First of all, I think they actually should have brought some of the sleeping bags along. Because as Zach continues to lose blood, there's a real chance the hypothermia sets in.

• 37:32Wes Larson?

  And you want to do your best to keep him warm and comfortable. And then also someone could fall in the water, and if they fall in the water, that's gonna really up their risk of hypothermia as well. And then you also want those life jackets. Because they have a three year old, they're canoeing at night, there's a lot of stuff they could have run into, which they find out soon. And you just want to have those. But again, who knows how you're gonna react when your 12 year old boy gets his face ripped off by a wolf in the middle of the night? You know, that's not an easy thing to prepare yourself for.

• 38:05Jeff Larson?

  So you're not supposed to bring the wolf into the hospital so they can identify what bit him?

• 38:11Wes Larson?

  No, I mean, if you happened to kill that wolf.

• 38:14Jeff Larson?

  In the sleeping bag.

• 38:17Wes Larson?

  If you did happen to kill it, you would definitely want to bring its carcass with you. Because then they can test it for rabies rather than you.

• 38:24Jeff Larson?

  See what type of venom it has?

• 38:26Wes Larson?

  It doesn't have any venom, might have rabies, though. They can also test it for Dracula, you know?

• 38:32Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 38:32Wes Larson?

  They can be like, oh, this is Dracula.

• 38:34Mike Smith?

  Do a 23 and me, kind of thing.

• 38:37Wes Larson?

  Also, I would have tried to find those scouts because they might have a more complete first aid kit. You also then have an option of sending a second boat of rescuers that might not be slowed down by like having kids, young kids along. So that's something else they probably should have done, but those are just some of my thoughts for our listeners.

• 38:57Mike Smith?

  I would have never taken a life jacket off.

• 38:59Wes Larson?

  Yeah, just left it on while you're sleeping all the time.

• 39:03Mike Smith?

  Keep your shoes on, maybe bring a helicopter. I don't know, there's like all sorts of things, you can poke holes in what they did wrong.

• 39:10Wes Larson?

  They should have brought a helicopter. Tom does remember that there's a children's camp at one of the adjoining lakes and that they should be able to navigate a creek to connect to that lake. And maybe there would be a phone at this camp. So Tracy studies the map as Tom is paddling out into this inky darkness and he does slam into a log. So Tracy starts acting as lookout while Tom's rowing. And she's also doing the best to comfort their son who's bleeding out on the floor of this canoe. Tom calmly tells Zach that he has to keep pressure on the wounds. And when Zach asks him if he's going to bleed out and die, Tom says, I don't think so. But tells him to use his brain and to concentrate on not bleeding too much.

• 39:58Mike Smith?

  What?

• 39:59Wes Larson?

  That's what it said in the story that I read. So, huh. You know, I don't know what you'd tell a 12 year old kid. Maybe that is, maybe then they're like trying to focus on something, you know? I don't know. It worked.

• 40:13Mike Smith?

  It kind of sounds like he's like, what? Think of something yourself.

• 40:17Jeff Larson?

  It worked?

• 40:19Wes Larson?

  Well, I mean, he didn't die, so.

• 40:22Wes Larson?

  Tom paddles hard and Tracy yells back at him how much she loves him, but they couldn't really hear each other. So they're having their sons like pass messages of love back and forth to each other. So the water starts getting really choppy and Tom looks at the map and he thinks he knows where they are, but it's not right. And he kind of gets agitated. He has been looking at the stars to try and navigate. It's not making sense. Tracy's starting to feel her husband become really frustrated. And she's trying to calm him down so they don't panic. And then she sees that they'd passed a campsite and they're like, let's just stop and ask them for directions. So they pull in. Tracy climbs out and she starts screaming that they need help. And this lone camper, he like wakes up. He hears my son's been attacked by a wolf.

• 41:07Wes Larson?

  Uh, and we can't find the way to teepee lake. And she just says, just point us in the right direction. And this guy just points and they take off. So probably kind of a weird night for that dude too. As they paddle, Tom realizes that he's forgotten to account for the movement of the stars. And he's been trying to navigate from like what they were five hours ago. Uh, and then, so they kind of get back on the right track. These like both Tom and Tracy are very experienced in the outdoors, like they can navigate with the stars and stuff. These are people that know the outdoors very well. And they do get to some calmer water. They find the right channel. They're getting closer to teepee lake.

• 41:46Wes Larson?

  But they're really starting to like be on the edge of foible and panic when the channel opens up and Tom says, I think this is it. They turn around this bend and they see lights across the lake. And they get there and as they're getting close, Tom's like yelling, we have an emergency. We need a car. The camp director runs out. She sends a counselor to like rouse the doctor. Uh, they're waiting by the dock when the family gets there. And at 4:30 AM, about two and a half hours after the attack happened. They help Zach out of the canoe and a camp nurse leads him to the doctor that's at this camp. So like it's a good move to go to this camp. There's a nurse, there's a doctor, there's a car, there's a phone.

• 42:28Wes Larson?

  They rather than like try and wait on a helicopter or something, they drive the 300 kilometers to the hospital.

• 42:37Wes Larson?

  Always pack a helicopter. That should be like our new motto for this show.

• 42:44Mike Smith?

  Bring your bear spray and.

• 42:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah, and your helicopter. And your bazooka.

• 42:50Mike Smith?

  Oh, shoot. Such a good idea.

• 42:52Jeff Larson?

  I bet you because they had the canoes, they didn't think they needed a helicopter.

• 42:58Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 42:59Wes Larson?

  So they decided to drive 300 kilometers to the hospital for sick children in Toronto. After they've kind of stabilized his wounds and everything.

• 43:07Jeff Larson?

  They're gonna turn him away. He's not sick.

• 43:09Wes Larson?

  You are not sick. Bless your vampire.

• 43:13Mike Smith?

  Vampire.

• 43:14Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 43:16Wes Larson?

  Uh, he goes, he goes in for four hours of surgery. They use more than 80 stitches to close his wounds. Um, his tear duct gets severed, so he does suffer from a weeping eye now. And they had actually gotten some literature from Algonquin Provincial Park that said wolves pose no threats to humans. However, like there had been a number of incidents recently. And few injuries even, but I do think from what I understand, they didn't try and find this wolf and kill it. They kind of just decided that.

• 43:49Wes Larson?

  Oh, never mind. I'm actually wrong. I forgot that I had a little bit more in my notes.

• 43:55Jeff Larson?

  That's a shocker.

• 43:56Mike Smith?

  Let me. That Wes is wrong?

• 43:58Jeff Larson?

  Well, no, that I thought that they didn't kill the wolf, but now.

• 44:02Wes Larson?

  I had a little bit more notes that were on the next page that I need to scroll down and see. Park authorities killed the wolf. Five days after the attack on Zach.

• 44:14Mike Smith?

  I liked the other ending better. You should have stopped reading.

• 44:17Wes Larson?

  25 kilogram male wolf. And the reason they did that was because this wolf had lost its fear of humans. Zach did struggle with trauma. He does say that like that whole experience really brought him a sense of the value and fragility of life. Made him even more protective of his brothers. It's kind of sad that a 12 year old had to learn that lesson. I feel like that's a better lesson to learn when you're in like your 40s or something. 12 year olds, in my opinion, should feel invincible and just kind of feel carefree. But, um, stuff happens and it did bring their family closer together. They really ran a desperate race and they managed to do it together.

• 45:00Mike Smith?

  Yeah, that's impressive. I think like on everyone kind of impressed me through the whole story. Really navigating by the stars and just the trek out and everything is like, I could never.

• 45:11Wes Larson?

  And I think they're lucky it wasn't a Dracula wolf because in the novel, he steals a baby. He feeds it to his like paramours that he keeps in his castle that are also vampires. And then when the distraught mother comes looking for her baby. Dracula commands a whole pack of wolves to kill and eat her, which they happily do. So that's a much sadder ending than what happened in this real life story.

• 45:36Mike Smith?

  Unless you're the wolf.

• 45:37Wes Larson?

  Unless you're the wolf, then it's very happy. You get to eat a distraught mother. She kind of wanted to die though, Bram Stoker said, because she'd lost her baby to vampires. Which is the worst way to lose a baby, I think.

• 45:52Wes Larson?

  All right. You guys got any questions about this eastern wolf attack in 1996, three, three JP, three PJP? Post JP?

• 46:01Mike Smith?

  Yeah, we got it.

• 46:04Mike Smith?

  We got it.

• 46:06Mike Smith?

  So portaging.

• 46:07Wes Larson?

  Workshopping that.

• 46:09Mike Smith?

  Explain, explain to me what that is.

• 46:11Wes Larson?

  Portaging is when you don't have a access route on water, like you don't have a way to navigate on water to where you're going. So you pull all of your stuff like on land and carry it on land to the next water. So like imagine two lakes where there's just like a little hill in between them. You would portage the canoe up and over that hill and into the other lake.

• 46:32Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 46:33Wes Larson?

  Yeah. If you want to read about some harrowing portaging, read that book, The River of Doubt, which is about Kirby Roosevelt. And, and Teddy Roosevelt, they did some hardcore portaging.

• 46:45Mike Smith?

  Isn't that kind of what they were doing? What's the aguerry wrath of God?

• 46:50Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's exactly what they were doing. Yeah.

• 46:52Mike Smith?

  Just like on a massive scale. So.

• 46:54Wes Larson?

  Sounds like the most miserable thing in the world.

• 46:57Mike Smith?

  Well, I mean, even on a small scale, it's like, why are we making all these extra steps to have fun here? And just stay home and order a pizza and watch a movie.

• 47:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah, or just go to one lake.

• 47:06Mike Smith?

  One lake, one single one. Yeah. And maybe once you get to the end of it, paddle back the other way and that'll, that'll be fun again.

• 47:13Wes Larson?

  Sometimes that's how I feel when we go backpacking and we like get to the first lake. It's like, this is a great lake. Let's just do this lake, you know?

• 47:21Mike Smith?

  Sometimes like I'll portage a piece of pizza from the box to my mouth. And that's like.

• 47:30Mike Smith?

  That's the extent of my physical strain. Yeah.

• 47:32Jeff Larson?

  It's especially funny because it's like they went deep into the wilderness. And then it's like just a boy scout troop once they got way back in.

• 47:42Mike Smith?

  That was an interesting detail.

• 47:43Jeff Larson?

  Bear Grylls, where he's just like, oh, I'm like been stuck in the wilderness for three days and there's like a highway behind him.

• 47:51Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 47:55Wes Larson?

  I

• 47:56Mike Smith?

  Oh, man.

• 47:57Wes Larson?

  And I used to really defend that guy and I just don't anymore. I'm just not.

• 48:01Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, anyone can drink pee.

• 48:03Mike Smith?

  Yeah, anyone can do that.

• 48:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 48:05Mike Smith?

  Is there any specific reason I shouldn't like him anymore? Or is it just a general?

• 48:09Wes Larson?

  There are, but we can, we can get into it later, but there's a number.

• 48:12Jeff Larson?

  A lot of it too is just like, like a lot of the show was fake.

• 48:19Wes Larson?

  Yeah. There was, there was an episode in Montana where he was like running from a grizzly bear. And I knew exactly where they were filming it and it wasn't in grizzly habitat. And I was kind of just like, you know, SMH dude.

• 48:33Jeff Larson?

  There's a lot of people who will like go to his exact spots. He did like some harrowing thing too. And just like walk across it really like casually and stuff. And there's like a highway right there that they edited out or something.

• 48:48Mike Smith?

  Do you know who really gave a good SMH was, um, oh, what's the little girl's name in The Exorcist?

• 48:55Wes Larson?

  Oh yeah. Linda Blair.

• 48:56Mike Smith?

  Yeah, all the way around.

• 48:58Wes Larson?

  What's the character's name?

• 49:00Jeff Larson?

  Now that's a survivor.

• 49:02Mike Smith?

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• 49:44Mike Smith?

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• 50:15Jeff Larson?

  The holiday season is the best time of the year. I'm so excited to dress up, watch scary movies and eat delicious food. This year's extra special for me because it's my first holiday season with my new best bud, my tripod dog Shanks. He already knows that he wants to be a lightning bolt for Halloween because that's what he's most afraid of. Probably because it probably zapped off one of his legs, but the reason he's going to be really happy about this holiday season is because his dog food, Ollie, is getting in on the festivities with a limited edition recipe formulated specifically for dogs and crafted with human grade favorites. Fresh turkey, zesty cranberries, warm sweet potatoes and rich butternut squash.

• 51:00Jeff Larson?

  It's fresh, festive and 100% human grade, but stock is limited. So get it right now. And to take your pet obsession even further, Ollie's partnered with Bakara to create a custom engraved Ollie Day Crystal Dog Bowl. Become an Ollie member and order the holiday feast by November 3rd for a chance to win 10 lucky winners total. But Shanks is the softest, healthiest dog and I really do credit Ollie. His hair is just so clean and nice and I just want to pet him the entire day. Stock is limited, so secure your holiday feast while you can. Head to ollie.com/Tooth and use code TOOTH to get 70% off your pups holiday feast today.

• 51:41Jeff Larson?

  And remember to order by November 3rd. That's O L L I E dot com slash tooth and enter code TOOTH to get 70% off your first box. Ollie, feed the obsession.

• 51:55Wes Larson?

  All right. Uh, well, let's move on to our categories then. We've done a number of pop culture wolves, but there are a lot of pop culture wolves. So we're going to do it again. I want to hear a favorite pop culture wolf. I'll go first. A movie that has really kind of had a renaissance for me on a rewatch was the movie The Grey. When I first saw that movie, I just like, thought it was pretty dumb and couldn't really get past my biologist brain. And now like kind of just putting that aside and not really overthinking how it doesn't make any sense that wolves would act that way. The wolves in that movie are really cool. Like I really, there's a scene where they're kind of like coming out of the darkness and you see all their eyes glowing and stuff.

• 52:38Wes Larson?

  And it's just, it's just like a fun horror animal movie. So, uh, I'm going to go with the wolves from The Grey.

• 52:45Mike Smith?

  Uh, I had a bit of a reappraisal of the movie Call of the Wild with, um, Harrison Ford.

• 52:51Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I've never seen that one.

• 52:52Mike Smith?

  Weird CG dog. And that was like another thing where I was like, I don't, I can't get over that dog, but then I did. There's also wolves in that movie. That's not my answer though. My answer is the two wolves that live in, inside all of us.

• 53:06Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 53:08Wes Larson?

  With you, what, what are those two wolves telling you, Mike?

• 53:11Mike Smith?

  Well, one is gay and the other one is also gay.

• 53:21Wes Larson?

  All right. Cool.

• 53:23Mike Smith?

  Uh, no, I'm going to go with, um, I don't know what, have we talked about, let's go wolf link from Twilight Princess, a Zelda game. That guy, that's a cool, cool wolf.

• 53:36Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 53:36Mike Smith?

  Minda rides around on you, like spanks you and stuff. I don't know if that happens, but that's my, my, that's the canon in my mind.

• 53:44Mike Smith?

  She's got a big orange hand. She's got to be spanking someone with it.

• 53:47Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 53:48Mike Smith?

  That's just me.

• 53:49Wes Larson?

  Jeff, what's your wolf?

• 53:51Jeff Larson?

  Um, I said the wolf from Pulp Fiction. He's just, if I ever killed someone, I would want the wolf on the case. He does a really good job. And you know, he's, he's not rude. I don't think Travolta needed to talk back to him at all.

• 54:10Mike Smith?

  No.

• 54:11Jeff Larson?

  And also I want to shout out Ghost of Yote. It's like the second game after Ghost of, um, Tsushima. But it's a video game and she's like trying to get revenge for her family being killed at the start of the game. But then these wolves help her throughout the whole game and those wolves are all cool.

• 54:33Mike Smith?

  Oh, cool. I need to play that.

• 54:35Wes Larson?

  Games. Yeah. Maybe that'll be my like once every three years video game experience for four days.

• 54:42Mike Smith?

  There's a inventory and items in it. So just be wary. Yep. Okay.

• 54:47Jeff Larson?

  But they're all like Samurai.

• 54:49Mike Smith?

  And cool items.

• 54:51Wes Larson?

  Even, even like Astro Bot got to be a little bit too like, oh man, there's too many little tasks here. I've got too many little worlds that I have to visit and do things. So.

• 55:01Mike Smith?

  Know what to tell you.

• 55:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I know. It sucks.

• 55:04Mike Smith?

  You go play Wordle or something.

• 55:05Wes Larson?

  There's a game that I'm, there's like a dinosaur survival game that I'm looking, there's two actually. There's one called, um, man, I can't remember what it's called. And then Jurassic Park Survival. They're both like dinosaur survival games. Anyway, I'll put in the name of the other one somewhere. All right. Next category. If you could have any species of animal do your bidding, what would it be?

• 55:27Mike Smith?

  Remember when I did the hogs episode forever ago and there was that pig they trained to play a video game? And that's like how they're like, these pigs are so, so I'd, um, I'd train a bunch of pigs to play video games with me.

• 55:41Jeff Larson?

  Oh yeah. They could find you good mushrooms too.

• 55:44Mike Smith?

  They could, oh yeah. They could double time for me.

• 55:47Wes Larson?

  That kind of, that kind of hurts my feelings that me and Jeff, it's like pulling teeth to get Mike to play a single game of mini golf with us. But then he wants to train pigs to play video games.

• 55:59Mike Smith?

  Now it'd be like, it'd be, I'd assemble like the first ever competitive team of, uh, like League of Legends, a team full of pigs. And it'd be like a Hollywood story and we would option the script and everything. It'd be a big thing.

• 56:12Wes Larson?

  Okay. I like it. Jeff?

• 56:14Mike Smith?

  I'll play a different game with you guys.

• 56:16Wes Larson?

  Yeah. We'll play mini golf. We got a new mini golf partner.

• 56:20Jeff Larson?

  I mean, probably an orca. I just want to take out some billionaire boats. Yeah.

• 56:26Wes Larson?

  I like that. Yeah. They're already doing that on their own. You don't even need to make them do it.

• 56:31Jeff Larson?

  That's true.

• 56:33Wes Larson?

  I picked.

• 56:34Mike Smith?

  Wasted.

• 56:34Wes Larson?

  Mine's kind of a wasted one too, because they're kind of already doing this for me too. But I picked bees. Cause I would just like have them make so much honey and I would have them go to the best flowers to make the best, like most unique honey. And then you could also use them to like attack people if you needed it. It would be really intimidating if someone walked up with just like a swarm of bees right behind them and they could make them do things.

• 56:58Jeff Larson?

  There's a movie about that.

• 56:59Wes Larson?

  Option that for a movie. Oh.

• 57:02Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Beekeeper.

• 57:03Mike Smith?

  Beekeeper. Yeah.

• 57:05Wes Larson?

  He didn't, he wasn't controlling his beak.

• 57:07Mike Smith?

  Yeah. He was like a druid.

• 57:10Wes Larson?

  How do we get on Beekeeper every single episode?

• 57:13Mike Smith?

  They could help you sneak into a rated R movie.

• 57:17Mike Smith?

  If you stacked like 60 of them up on each other's shoulders and they put on a trench coat, they could get into a rated R movie.

• 57:23Jeff Larson?

  Said that last time.

• 57:26Wes Larson?

  I think those are sub-episode though.

• 57:28Jeff Larson?

  Did you not remember you said that?

• 57:31Mike Smith?

  No, I'm still thinking about it. It's just, that's all that this is.

• 57:34Jeff Larson?

  Just the way you explained it all over again. I was like, you know that you said that, right?

• 57:41Mike Smith?

  So what? All right. So I'm running out of material. So what?

• 57:46Wes Larson?

  Let's play a game. Bill, put that in, put that in that clip of that little guy saying, let's play a game.

• 57:56Jeff Larson?

  Jigsaw, Laura Loomer.

• 58:00Wes Larson?

  I want you guys to either give me a howl of approval or a snarl of disdain for the names given to these animal hybrids. So I, I failed to mention coy wolves when I was talking about eastern wolves. So coy wolves are a thing where like an eastern wolf maybe hybridizes with a coyote. So it's like more of a, a direct hybridization, not an evolutionary thing. And it creates this hybrid between a coyote and a wolf. And people think they're a lot more common than they are. They're not that common, but this is actually like a mix between the two. It's not like they have some, some shared lineage.

• 58:41Wes Larson?

  It's like, no, these are like a wolf and a coyote breeding and their name is Coy Wolf. So I want you to give me a howl of approval for that name or a snarl of disdain.

• 58:54Wes Larson?

  Howl of approval for Jeff.

• 58:57Wes Larson?

  You don't have to literally make the sound if you'd rather just say that's a snarl or something.

• 59:01Mike Smith?

  I'm just, I kinda stopped listening a while ago, so I'm really sure where I land. Coy wolf.

• 59:08Wes Larson?

  Snarl of disdain. Alright.

• 59:11Mike Smith?

  Uh, yeah.

• 59:12Wes Larson?

  I also don't like this name, so it's also a snarl.

• 59:15Jeff Larson?

  Wrong.

• 59:16Wes Larson?

  Um, this does happen in nature, but coy wolf, I don't think there's a much better option besides maybe you're like, woyody.

• 59:24Jeff Larson?

  You think that's a better option?

• 59:27Wes Larson?

  I, what I.

• 59:28Mike Smith?

  Snarl.

• 59:29Wes Larson?

  What I don't like is when an animal hybrid has the complete name of one of the animals and a shortened name of the other one. If that makes sense.

• 59:39Mike Smith?

  Coyote wolf. Okay, yeah.

• 59:40Wes Larson?

  So it has just the first two letters of coyote and then the whole name of wolf. And I just don't love that. So like, but you can't really do like woyody and colf doesn't really make.

• 59:52Mike Smith?

  I like colf.

• 59:53Wes Larson?

  I'll do colf.

• 59:54Jeff Larson?

  Colf's not bad.

• 59:56Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 59:56Jeff Larson?

  Woo. I wanna explain why I like it.

• 59:59Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:00:00Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Jeff Larson?

  Cause it's coyote and wolf mixed into one name. And then also coy is kinda like something that's sneaky, right? Like, oh, that's a coy animal. And like coyotes and wolves are like, a coyote wolf? That's gonna be a sneaky ass wolf. So that is a coy wolf.

• 1:00:20Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:00:20Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 1:00:21Wes Larson?

  Good explanation. I like it.

• 1:00:22Mike Smith?

  Ooh.

• 1:00:22Wes Larson?

  Uh, liger, a cross between a male lion and a female tiger only found in captivity, liger.

• 1:00:32Wes Larson?

  It's a snarl for Mike. So rrr for me.

• 1:00:36Jeff Larson?

  I feel like Napoleon Dynamite kinda made them seem like a joke, but it's.

• 1:00:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Jeff Larson?

  At its core, a good name.

• 1:00:45Wes Larson?

  I think those two names can like combine really well. And the one I don't like is tygon, which is a cross between a male tiger and a female lion. It's a big ol' snarl for me.

• 1:00:57Jeff Larson?

  Tygon, because you don't say lyon.

• 1:01:00Wes Larson?

  And I also don't, I kinda don't like when it's like changes based on whether it's like male or female of the given species. I think you just gotta pick one and stick with it. And liger's a good name. Let's just stick with liger.

• 1:01:12Mike Smith?

  I didn't know that that was a thing.

• 1:01:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah. So a liger is a male lion, female tiger. A tygon is a male tiger, female lion. Alright.

• 1:01:20Mike Smith?

  Oh, yeah. I don't need to do all that.

• 1:01:21Wes Larson?

  This next animal has two names, so you can just howl or tell me you're going to howl if you like either of these names. Growler bear or pizzly bear, which is a cross between a grizzly and a polar bear. Go ahead and tell me which one you like more. Growler bear or pizzly bear?

• 1:01:38Mike Smith?

  I'm going growl. No, I don't like that. I'm going pizzly.

• 1:01:42Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:01:42Mike Smith?

  Pizzly is just a little funnier somehow.

• 1:01:45Wes Larson?

  It is funny. It sounds kind of like weak to me though, which I don't love for like a combo of two of the coolest animals.

• 1:01:53Jeff Larson?

  Growler bear, it just doesn't make me think of what it is though. Like liger, you think of a lion tiger. A growler bear, I'm thinking of like, maybe like a boulder that looks like a bear or something.

• 1:02:10Mike Smith?

  Good Pokemon.

• 1:02:11Wes Larson?

  Alright. Next one's a wolfen, which is a bottlenose dolphin and a false killer whale. These have been documented in the wild, but most famously come from captivity.

• 1:02:23Jeff Larson?

  A wolfen.

• 1:02:25Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:27Mike Smith?

  I like the wolfen.

• 1:02:28Wes Larson?

  Alright, three howls. Good name. Puma pard, a puma and a leopard cross only in captivity. That's a snarl for me. A big ol' snarl.

• 1:02:39Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I don't like that one.

• 1:02:43Wes Larson?

  I think like cougard. Cougard is a much better name or.

• 1:02:47Mike Smith?

  Cougard.

• 1:02:47Wes Larson?

  A mountain leopard, but like puma pard just doesn't, I just don't like it. What, Mike, what's your answer for that one?

• 1:02:54Mike Smith?

  Hmm, I think I'm gonna woo. Okay. I'm a wooing.

• 1:02:59Wes Larson?

  I think you guys are gonna like this next one. A jag lion, which is a male jaguar and a female lion only happens in captivity.

• 1:03:08Jeff Larson?

  A jag lion?

• 1:03:10Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I have to snarl because I don't like that the whole lion name is in there.

• 1:03:16Jeff Larson?

  I'm gonna snarl. I think they need to add just one more noise and do jag a lion.

• 1:03:23Mike Smith?

  Oh, that's way better. Jag a lion. It's like jack-o'-lantern. I think they need to make it more seamlessly into one word. So it'd be a jag leon.

• 1:03:32Wes Larson?

  Jag leon. It might be that actually. It might be jag leon. Yeah.

• 1:03:36Mike Smith?

  Cause that's cool. I like that one. Alright.

• 1:03:38Jeff Larson?

  What do those look like?

• 1:03:40Wes Larson?

  Uh, they look like a big jaguar that's like lighter colored. Yeah, but they're having, they've only been in captivity and there's only been a couple. So I don't even know if there's any real pictures of them. I think this is, a lot of these animals were back in like the early 1900s when like rich people in like India and stuff were just like, hey, let's mix all these animals up. Um, alright, mule. Male donkey, female horse.

• 1:04:07Wes Larson?

  I love that it's just like a name that doesn't really connect to either animal that much.

• 1:04:13Mike Smith?

  That's how I would prefer all of these to be. Just make up an entirely new one. Yeah, so I'm a wooing.

• 1:04:18Wes Larson?

  Alright. Narluga, a nar whale and a beluga whale confirmed in the wild through DNA. Narluga.

• 1:04:26Mike Smith?

  Sounds like a.

• 1:04:28Wes Larson?

  Sounds like a, like an anime to me.

• 1:04:29Mike Smith?

  Nairlathatap or like one of the ancient ones.

• 1:04:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:32Mike Smith?

  Some Lovecraftian stuff. I'm gonna woo.

• 1:04:35Wes Larson?

  Me too.

• 1:04:36Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it's gotta be, it's gotta be that. You can't do like, blue, blue whale?

• 1:04:45Jeff Larson?

  Blue wall.

• 1:04:48Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:49Mike Smith?

  That's like, I always have this thought. So like when uh, some Apple engineer was first designing like the, the earbuds. You know, someone came up with the name earbud and thought they were really cooking until they thought for like two seconds like, oh man, that's that one dog.

• 1:05:06Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Alright, last one. Beefalo, which is a domestic cow and a bison.

• 1:05:12Mike Smith?

  Oh, that one's my favorite. Beefalos.

• 1:05:16Wes Larson?

  It's so like, so demeaning to, to name it after like the meat that comes from.

• 1:05:22Mike Smith?

  It's such a like a Dr. Seuss name to me. I love it.

• 1:05:25Wes Larson?

  Beefalo. I'm gonna, I'm gonna woo too. Ooh.

• 1:05:29Jeff Larson?

  I'm gonna snarl.

• 1:05:30Wes Larson?

  Alright. It's kinda convoluted with them.

• 1:05:32Jeff Larson?

  That should be like a joke name. It shouldn't be a real name.

• 1:05:35Wes Larson?

  It's kinda convoluted too, cause like they happen in the wild, but one of those animals is domestic. So.

• 1:05:42Mike Smith?

  What is this feigned indignance you're putting on for this name, Jeff? Do you really feel that strongly about it?

• 1:05:49Wes Larson?

  Too jokey for him.

• 1:05:50Jeff Larson?

  I don't feel that strong, but it's like a yes or no. And it's like, beefalo is like something I would call buffalos as a joke. And then it's like, oh, you can't even call them that because they're bison. That's part of the problem is you're using buffalo in beefalo and they're bison.

• 1:06:08Wes Larson?

  Uh, what's y'all's favorite scene from the Francis Ford Coppola masterpiece Bram Stoker's Dracula? My favorite's actually the opening. Like you kind of see this really interesting lit battle between like the ancient Romanians and whoever they're fighting and then a bunch of people impaled on stakes. And then it switches to Dracula in like the coolest armor ever, fighting with some priests. And his wife is dying is like long lost love. And then he curses them and blood like pours out of the cross. And it's just like, maybe the most like Gothic scene ever made for a Gothic horror movie.

• 1:06:48Wes Larson?

  And I just absolutely love it. Like it hooks you in better than just about any opening scene of any horror movie ever.

• 1:06:55Mike Smith?

  Mine is more of a moment than a scene, but when they all burst into the room and Winona's on the bed and he's all transformed and gross. And then he kinda snarls at the cross they're holding up and it lights on fire. I just think that's the coolest little moment. I know it's always stuck with me. I think about that every single day.

• 1:07:14Wes Larson?

  It's so cool. That's when he's in bat form. That's a good one.

• 1:07:19Jeff Larson?

  I liked when, I liked the scene that people kind of point out as the worst scene. But when Keanu Reeves and Gary Oldman are like really conversing and getting into argument. And then you see like the Dracula shadow from Gary Oldman in human form, you know, I thought that scene was awesome. But also just like Keanu kinda works just to like emphasize how good of a job Gary Oldman's doing. Like I feel like if they were both just like nailing it, it wouldn't stand out as much, you know?

• 1:07:53Mike Smith?

  Sure. Yeah. That's a good point, actually.

• 1:07:57Wes Larson?

  Keanu's British accent in this is like atrocious, but I love this movie so much that it's like started to become like part of its charm for me. Like I just.

• 1:08:06Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:07Wes Larson?

  This is maybe my favorite horror movie. It's like right up there with the thing for me. So. Uh, quick new category. This category is called, is Mike okay? Mike, are you okay?

• 1:08:19Mike Smith?

  Doing okay bud.

• 1:08:20Wes Larson?

  Alright. Had a rough week with the Padres and the Chargers, so.

• 1:08:26Mike Smith?

  I don't even care about, listen, it's beneath me. Sports, you know, what a childish pastime. I think it's kind of cringe worthy that any of you care out there.

• 1:08:37Wes Larson?

  Which team was more disappointing to you this week?

• 1:08:39Mike Smith?

  Disappointing the Chargers, just because they're like, the Padres really ought to, they were right in the position, like literally two strikes away from being two and O. Uh, instead they are O and two. Uh, all credit to the Brewers. Great, the great team. So like, I'm not trying to take anything away from them, but man.

• 1:08:56Wes Larson?

  It's the only baseball I've watched all season, just because I want your team to win, Mike, and I'm, I'm rooting for them. Maybe I should stop.

• 1:09:03Mike Smith?

  I'm sorry, sorry I second-handedly kinda subjected you to this.

• 1:09:08Wes Larson?

  No, I, it, it, I love an underdog and I love like a team that has a history of losing. And that's why I loved the Cubs for so long. And then once they won, I kinda lost interest. So.

• 1:09:20Mike Smith?

  I really love these Padres now and then.

• 1:09:22Jeff Larson?

  When they're going against like the mega team, the Brewers, who historically are monsters.

• 1:09:30Mike Smith?

  Dominant.

• 1:09:32Wes Larson?

  Alright, uh, what's the worst way to be woken up and what's the best way to be woken up? A wolf carrying you off by the face is I think a bad way to be woken up.

• 1:09:42Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:09:43Wes Larson?

  For you guys, what's your worst and your best ways?

• 1:09:47Mike Smith?

  I still think being woken up by a phone call is worse.

• 1:09:50Wes Larson?

  Ooh, that is a bad way to get woken up. Cause you try so hard to be like, to talk normally, but no matter what you do, people are gonna be like, oh, I'm sorry, did I wake you up?

• 1:10:00Mike Smith?

  Are you high or are you just, what's going on?

• 1:10:04Jeff Larson?

  Today was actually a really bad one. Just an email from an airline saying, your flight's can't, your flight's canceled. You're moved to two days later.

• 1:10:15Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Hey, we moved your flight two days later. That's cool, right? You guys are good with that.

• 1:10:20Mike Smith?

  Why can't they just do that?

• 1:10:23Wes Larson?

  And then what it let it's like you can pick a new one. It let me just like pick the original one.

• 1:10:30Jeff Larson?

  Oh, really?

• 1:10:31Wes Larson?

  Thing I've ever seen. Yeah, I went back on and our original flight was an option to pick. And I was like, yes, I'll take this one, please. Can I please have this flight? We'll see what happens.

• 1:10:40Jeff Larson?

  Unreal.

• 1:10:40Wes Larson?

  Yeah. All right. Uh, for me, the worst way was the way I was woken up a lot of my childhood, which was my dad singing the BYU fight song. Terrible way to get woken up. And then I think the best way to get woken up is maybe just like the sun kind of like glinting through your window and you just wake up feeling rested and it's nice and quiet and you hear the birds chirping. Um, just like a very

• 1:11:09Jeff Larson?

  Waking up to the smell of fresh breakfast food is a good one.

• 1:11:14Wes Larson?

  That is a good one.

• 1:11:15Mike Smith?

  Yeah, freshly baked bread.

• 1:11:17Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:18Mike Smith?

  A pair of conies.

• 1:11:20Wes Larson?

  Oh. Pair of conies.

• 1:11:23Mike Smith?

  That's not what Sam calls them.

• 1:11:26Wes Larson?

  The rabbits.

• 1:11:29Wes Larson?

  All right. Quick conservation corner.

• 1:11:31Jeff Larson?

  Woken up by a hundred supermodels.

• 1:11:34Mike Smith?

  Dude, holy cow, avalanche of naked women.

• 1:11:44Wes Larson?

  There are less than 5,000 eastern wolves remaining in the world. Um, habitat loss and hybridization are the biggest threats facing this species. If we do consider it a species, which I don't, basically. Some of the worry is that these wolves mate with coyotes and gray wolves in places where they overlap. And that's going to continue to just basically water down that distinctive genetic lineage. And over time, they will just become like coy wolves. Um, it's kind of the same thing that's happening in a large part that some people think is happening with dingos in Australia. That is they mate with like domestic dogs. We're losing like actual dingos.

• 1:12:24Jeff Larson?

  I was worried you were gonna say like a white supremacist thing then.

• 1:12:27Wes Larson?

  Yeah, like

• 1:12:31Wes Larson?

  pure eastern wolves, please.

• 1:12:35Wes Larson?

  No, but I do think there's a very big difference between saying that in humans and saying that in an animal.

• 1:12:44Wes Larson?

  Okay, let's go on to our claw rating. If we were to count this as a different species, let's give it a claw rating, the eastern wolf.

• 1:12:51Jeff Larson?

  Eastern wolf? Not timber wolf?

• 1:12:54Wes Larson?

  It's same thing. Timber wolf, eastern wolf, timber wolf.

• 1:12:57Jeff Larson?

  I like timber wolf more.

• 1:12:59Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:01Jeff Larson?

  Gray wolf is honestly the worst name.

• 1:13:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah, because it can be a lot of different colors too.

• 1:13:06Jeff Larson?

  It's like, I don't even really think it's like trying to force me to think of them as being gray.

• 1:13:11Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you can just call gray wolves wolves too. Like that is the wolf. If you look up wolf on Wikipedia.

• 1:13:20Jeff Larson?

  Pandas, I can just call giant pandas pandas.

• 1:13:23Wes Larson?

  You get an article about canis lupus, which is the gray wolf. We call them the gray wolf in North America. But they're wolves.

• 1:13:31Mike Smith?

  Do you hate any animal that's just named a color then? Is that where your brain's at, Jeff?

• 1:13:37Jeff Larson?

  If if it's like that color, I'm fine with it. But like, like a gray wolf. Like a gray wolf, like I like to think of the black ones.

• 1:13:47Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:48Jeff Larson?

  And it's like gray wolf, the name always makes me first think of them as gray, you know?

• 1:13:55Mike Smith?

  Hmm, okay. What about those blue sheep?

• 1:14:00Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I don't like that name.

• 1:14:01Mike Smith?

  I hated that. That was my least favorite animal ever. It's not their fault.

• 1:14:06Jeff Larson?

  Like a red fox, I think is good.

• 1:14:09Mike Smith?

  Right, red fox is great.

• 1:14:10Jeff Larson?

  Even though it's kind of orange.

• 1:14:15Mike Smith?

  Orange yellow fox, we should be calling them.

• 1:14:18Wes Larson?

  I'm gonna give eastern wolf six claws. Cause I frankly don't really agree that it's a its own species. And then I also I kind of just feel like it's a it's like a souped up coyote or a watered down wolf. And I think I like either of those species better, like as their pure form, you know?

• 1:14:38Mike Smith?

  Hmm. I see. You don't like muggles.

• 1:14:42Wes Larson?

  Purity.

• 1:14:45Mike Smith?

  No.

• 1:14:46Jeff Larson?

  Um, I'll give them six big booms. All right. Yeah, it's just these six, six, six.

• 1:14:53Wes Larson?

  Do the booms, Mike.

• 1:14:56Jeff Larson?

  Boom.

• 1:15:02Mike Smith?

  All right.

• 1:15:03Jeff Larson?

  Big justice, dude.

• 1:15:05Wes Larson?

  Well, that's it for this episode on the eastern wolf. It's our first of our October spooky episodes. Um, I will shout out my sources. The main one was, uh, two different shows, Human Prey and I was I was prey, I think of the two shows. And then a few different articles that I found. But, uh, yeah, anyway, uh, another thing I wanted to do a quick shout out of is I just did a subscription episode on bears and slashers. And had a bear attack that I likened to a slasher movie. Um, so if you feel like checking out our subscription channel, it's still 10 bucks a month. It is now

• 1:15:46Wes Larson?

  like well over a hundred hours of content that you're going to get access to, probably a few hundred hours. And, uh, you also get first dibs at our trips. You get first dibs at a lot of different things. Um, a cool community to interact with on Discord. There's a lot of perks to that $10. So check it out. Just go to our Patreon. You'll love it.

• 1:16:06Mike Smith?

  I will. Thanks for the recommendation.

• 1:16:09Jeff Larson?

  According to Mike, one episode's like a hundred hours.

• 1:16:13Mike Smith?

  Oh, my gosh, dude, we gotta cut these down.

• 1:16:16Wes Larson?

  What are we doing? This one was on the shorter side, I think.

• 1:16:19Mike Smith?

  Hey Wes, you did great, Wes.

• 1:16:20Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 1:16:21Mike Smith?

  Yeah, you did an amazing job. Thank you.

• 1:16:22Wes Larson?

  Okay, well, I love you guys and we'll see you later.

• 1:16:25Jeff Larson?

  Love you.

• 1:16:27Mike Smith?

  See ya.

• 1:16:27Wes Larson?

  Bye.