Rattlesnake Attack - A Real Bad Bite in Yosemite National Park

Kyle was busy living his best life with his wife and newborn baby when disaster literally struck while in a remote part of Yosemite National Park. After a lot pain, vomit, and diarrhea, Kyle had another nearly unbelievable animal encounter that worsened his chances of survival. What a lucky(?) guy! Watch here: https://youtu.be/mde3mOe6UIM ~ LMNT: Get a free 8-count Sample Pack of LMNT's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/tooth ~ To advertise on the show, contact us! Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/c/toothandclawpodcast ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social: Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:12Jeff Larson?

  Hello everyone. Welcome to Tooth and Claw Podcast. We are a wildlife biologist and we talk about animal attacks.

• 0:23Wes Larson?

  We are one?

• 0:24Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 0:24Wes Larson?

  It's like we are Charlie Kirk. What?

• 0:27Mike Smith?

  We are Legion.

• 0:29Jeff Larson?

  And we have Wes Larson, who is a, he's a biologist. He's, he's smart. He's handsome.

• 0:38Wes Larson?

  No.

• 0:39Jeff Larson?

  He, he can run the 100 in five seconds flat.

• 0:45Wes Larson?

  Definitely not.

• 0:46Mike Smith?

  Whoa.

• 0:47Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 0:47Wes Larson?

  I'm not very fast. I never have been, but how fast can you run the 100, Mike? You're the fastest of us.

• 0:53Mike Smith?

  I wasn't a short distance sprinter.

• 0:56Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 0:56Mike Smith?

  My coach only let me run the 400 and I wish, I still wish I were dead. Still.

• 1:02Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. 400 is the hardest because to be good at it, you have to like sprint it all, but then it's like too far to sprint.

• 1:11Mike Smith?

  I, I don't know. 400 was awful, truly, but I think the 800 might be worse.

• 1:16Jeff Larson?

  Hmm. That's the one I did, but I was all competitive. So it didn't matter.

• 1:22Mike Smith?

  I remember when we first started hanging out, Jeff, you had recently figured out how to run.

• 1:28Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:31Mike Smith?

  So funny because like you showed me how you used to do it and like you'd clomp your heel down first.

• 1:37Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:38Mike Smith?

  And slap the front of your foot down onto the ground.

• 1:41Jeff Larson?

  Some like inexperienced track coach in middle school taught us to like hit our heel first. And I don't know what they were, I think is for like super long distance. And I just put that to all running, like sprinting. I would put my heel down first.

• 2:00Mike Smith?

  Oh, so funny. It was like the loudest I've ever heard someone move. Just a huge slap.

• 2:07Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. For someone who played sports a lot, that was not great to.

• 2:11Wes Larson?

  No.

• 2:12Jeff Larson?

  Really put a dent on my. Abilities.

• 2:17Wes Larson?

  Uh, well, you guys enjoying, uh, the World Cup?

• 2:21Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, you just told us a great story.

• 2:23Wes Larson?

  I didn't. It wasn't a good story.

• 2:25Mike Smith?

  Tell us again.

• 2:26Wes Larson?

  No. In fact, you told me that it was stupid, so I'm not gonna repeat it on the podcast.

• 2:31Jeff Larson?

  I didn't say that. I said, you guys save that for the podcast.

• 2:34Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you said it in a way that made me think that you thought it was stupid, so I'm not gonna say it. Uh, it does, World Cup always makes me think of my favorite World Cup was, it was 2014. It was when me and Jeff were trapping bears. And it Bryce, in Bryce Canyon, they had, they were showing it on a projector at this hotel there. And because there were so many people from all over the world visiting Bryce Canyon, we would go and watch it with people from all these different countries. And it was really, really fun.

• 3:04Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it's great.

• 3:05Wes Larson?

  It was my favorite one because of that.

• 3:07Jeff Larson?

  I saw my favorite story so far. Well, there's been a few in Mexico. But I love that Boston ran out of beer because the Scottish fans are there.

• 3:18Wes Larson?

  Really?

• 3:18Jeff Larson?

  And they said that it's four times more beer sales than St. Patrick's Day.

• 3:23Wes Larson?

  Wow.

• 3:24Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, like, and the only beer left is Bud Light, so I guess they didn't like that one ad.

• 3:31Wes Larson?

  Uh, yeah, who knows?

• 3:35Jeff Larson?

  My favorite story from Mexico was that there was someone walking around on the street. And all these Team Mexico fans got all excited about him because they thought he was there for Japan because Japan has a game in Mexico. And it turned out he was just a Mexican.

• 3:56Wes Larson?

  They like are holding him up and like cheering and everything.

• 3:59Mike Smith?

  Mexican fans have been awesome. They're so fun.

• 4:02Jeff Larson?

  They like gave a Korean fan the stereotypical Mexican outfit with like the huge sombrero and a fake mustache. And it's just like one of the best photos ever.

• 4:16Wes Larson?

  I kinda hope they win, to be honest. I would love to see a Mexico win. But US is looking good, too, you know?

• 4:23Jeff Larson?

  US is looking great.

• 4:24Wes Larson?

  Yeah. All right. Well, I got a story for us today, and it's a good one.

• 4:29Jeff Larson?

  I bet you don't.

• 4:31Wes Larson?

  Uh, you're wrong. I do have one.

• 4:33Jeff Larson?

  I'll bet you $25 you don't have a story.

• 4:37Wes Larson?

  Okay, I'll take that bet.

• 4:39Jeff Larson?

  All right.

• 4:39Wes Larson?

  All right. So our story today is about a rattlesnake bite. Um, and I'm really excited to tell it because it's one that's been on my list for a while. And it just kind of felt like it was time to do a rattlesnake episode. And part of that is because this has been kind of a banner year for rattlesnake bites in the US. There's been a lot in California and a number in other states, too. And it's kind of just been a quick start to the year as far as rattlesnakes are concerned. And a few fatalities, too. So we're already on track for it to be a record year as far as people dying and people bitten by rattlesnakes in the US. This one isn't from this year, but I wanted to start out with a question.

• 5:22Wes Larson?

  What would you guys say are the three most beautiful national parks you've been to? So not necessarily the ones that like you personally like the best, but the three that are the most visually beautiful to you.

• 5:35Jeff Larson?

  Wow.

• 5:36Mike Smith?

  What the heck kind of question is that?

• 5:38Wes Larson?

  It's just one off the cuff.

• 5:39Mike Smith?

  I don't find nature to be beautiful.

• 5:42Wes Larson?

  Yes, you do.

• 5:43Jeff Larson?

  What's the one we went to in Alaska?

• 5:46Wes Larson?

  Katmai.

• 5:46Jeff Larson?

  Katmai. That's number one.

• 5:49Wes Larson?

  That's a good pick. I probably should have included that.

• 5:51Mike Smith?

  Don't go too fast, Jeff, because I'm gonna run out of parks if you just name all three of them right away.

• 5:56Wes Larson?

  All right, Mike, you name one.

• 5:57Mike Smith?

  Redwoods one?

• 5:59Wes Larson?

  Oh, that's a good pick, too. Solid pick. Yeah. I'm gonna say Glacier.

• 6:04Mike Smith?

  Shoot. I think that was.

• 6:06Wes Larson?

  We can say the same ones. It's fine.

• 6:08Jeff Larson?

  No. I say Zion. I'll take Zion.

• 6:11Wes Larson?

  Say that.

• 6:11Mike Smith?

  Oh, man.

• 6:12Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 6:13Mike Smith?

  I don't even like Zion, but I have been there and seen it. So that probably would have been one of my choices.

• 6:18Wes Larson?

  So we can't say the same one?

• 6:20Jeff Larson?

  No.

• 6:21Mike Smith?

  Is Bryce a national park?

• 6:22Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. You could steal that from Wes. That'd be smart.

• 6:26Wes Larson?

  I wasn't gonna say Bryce, but I was now that you took Zion, actually.

• 6:29Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 6:30Wes Larson?

  Uh, I'm gonna say Yosemite.

• 6:33Jeff Larson?

  Oh, I'll take, I'll take Yellowstone.

• 6:36Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 6:37Mike Smith?

  Central Park?

• 6:40Wes Larson?

  That's not a national park.

• 6:41Mike Smith?

  I don't, I can't think of anymore.

• 6:43Jeff Larson?

  Could go Gateway Arch.

• 6:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you could say Arches or Canyonlands or Gateway Arch in St. Louis.

• 6:51Jeff Larson?

  Death Valley.

• 6:52Mike Smith?

  St. Louis.

• 6:53Wes Larson?

  Capitol Reef.

• 6:54Jeff Larson?

  Grand Canyon.

• 6:56Mike Smith?

  Uh, the Oz, the Ozarks.

• 6:58Wes Larson?

  Sure. We're just gonna let Mike say the Ozarks and I'm gonna say the Everglades. Okay. The reason I asked that question is because of my second pick, which was Yosemite. Uh, I think I had always seen photos and whatnot of Yosemite. I didn't go there until I was an adult. And I always thought it looked really cool, but it never really made sense to me why it was so popular until I visited. And when I visited and I was wandering the meadows and seeing those huge cliff faces and the waterfalls, it really left an impression on me. Like I really got it. I understood why Yosemite was so popular and why so many people love it so much.

• 7:38Jeff Larson?

  Wes Freesolo'd El Capitan before Alex Harn.

• 7:42Wes Larson?

  Honold?

• 7:43Jeff Larson?

  Lot of people don't know that.

• 7:46Wes Larson?

  Sure. Yeah, let's let that become part of my lore. I'm happy with that.

• 7:50Mike Smith?

  I think Yosemite Sam was the first though, right? He just shot, shot his guns all the way up.

• 7:55Wes Larson?

  Have you guys ever met someone that calls it Yosemiteite?

• 7:58Mike Smith?

  I've heard that.

• 7:59Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it kinda drives me crazy, but alright.

• 8:03Mike Smith?

  They can't be serious though, right?

• 8:05Wes Larson?

  There are people that say it seriously, like my cousin Eric, I believe says it that way.

• 8:10Mike Smith?

  Vegemite. That's what it makes me think of. Shout out Australia.

• 8:14Wes Larson?

  Yeah, shout out to all our Australians out there. Uh.

• 8:18Jeff Larson?

  No, we just beat them in soccer.

• 8:20Mike Smith?

  I know, they need, they need a shout out. Now they're feeling probably sad.

• 8:24Wes Larson?

  Someone else that really loved Yosemite is Kyle Dickman. If you're active in the outdoor scene and especially in the outdoor journalism scene, there's a decent chance you've heard this name before. Kyle grew up in Oregon.

• 8:36Jeff Larson?

  There, but I can't think of it.

• 8:37Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's too easy.

• 8:39Mike Smith?

  I've just heard that name a lot.

• 8:40Wes Larson?

  Low hanging fruit. Yeah. He grew up in Oregon. His parents said they were members of the Church of Seventh Day Recreationalists. And basically, every weekend of his life while growing up, they would go camping, exploring, hiking, canoeing. They would do it so much that once Kyle, when he was a kid, asked his parents if they could just stay home that weekend, because he was tired of like going out and doing something fun every weekend with his folks.

• 9:05Mike Smith?

  What's weird about that?

• 9:07Wes Larson?

  I know that you would like, this sounds like your worst possible childhood, Mike. But to a lot of people, it sounds ideal. The appreciation for the outdoors really took root in Kyle. And as he got older, he started working in a lot of different jobs that would put him in the wilderness. He's a hotshot firefighter. He's a filmmaker for National Geographic, a contributor at Outside Magazine, our friends. And then he wrote a book about wildland firefighting. And his different jobs took him around the world. And he had some pretty crazy adventures and close calls.

• 9:38Mike Smith?

  Sorry, I don't, I don't mean to keep interrupting you.

• 9:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 9:41Mike Smith?

  What constitutes a hotshot fireman?

• 9:44Wes Larson?

  So that's, that's a tip, that's a type of like firefighter, wildland firefighters.

• 9:49Mike Smith?

  That's like an actual title.

• 9:50Wes Larson?

  Mm hmm. There's like a title, like you're a hotshot firefighter. And those are the ones that are doing like, the more technical kind of dangerous.

• 9:58Jeff Larson?

  Miles Teller.

• 9:59Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 9:59Jeff Larson?

  In that movie.

• 10:00Mike Smith?

  Or like Adam Sandler in Chuck and Larry. He's like a firefighter calendar model.

• 10:07Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 10:07Mike Smith?

  You guys remember that movie? That's a weird one.

• 10:09Wes Larson?

  I never saw that movie. This is a different kind. He's a wildland firefighter, though, not like a red truck firefighter. That's a fireman. And then a firefighter is someone that does it in the forest. Anyway, he almost stepped on a furtland in Belize. He almost got bit by a saltwater crocodile in Papua New Guinea. He was held at gunpoint by gorillas in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Not the gorillas you're thinking right now, Jeff. I know, I know.

• 10:35Jeff Larson?

  Oh, I was thinking of like the anti-government gorillas. So you're saying the animal gorillas?

• 10:41Wes Larson?

  It was the, yeah, it was the silverback gorilla. Like the one in Planet of the Apes.

• 10:47Jeff Larson?

  Turn that around on you, S. Crazy.

• 10:53Wes Larson?

  All right. When he was 26, he got married to his soulmate Turin, who had a similar love for adventure and had also traveled the world in her role as a climate researcher. They made their home in Los Alamos because she worked in a lab there. But the early years of their marriage were full of outdoor outings and adventure. And when Kyle was in his early 30s, Turin got pregnant with their first child. And although she even did 145 mile rafting trip through the Alaskan wilderness during her first trimester, they probably knew that having a baby was going to change their lives a bit. Because these are very active, very outdoor people. And having a baby is just, it's gonna throw a bit of a wrench in that, no matter what.

• 11:32Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, that should meant their gender reveal is a 100 mile kayak trip.

• 11:38Wes Larson?

  Yeah, right.

• 11:41Wes Larson?

  I don't know how, like the color of kayak that she takes.

• 11:45Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it just turns the river pink or blue.

• 11:47Mike Smith?

  She gives birth in the kayak and then they'll figure out what the gender is then, I guess.

• 11:53Wes Larson?

  I should mention that my main source here is a article called A Rattle With Death in Yosemite. It was actually written by Kyle himself. Then he's also done a number of podcast interviews, a few other articles. Like, there's a lot of information about this one. And I will say, this is one of those episodes where he's such a good writer that it made my job really easy. I'm kind of just like telling his story almost in his own words. But there is a lot of great information about this one. And he even like gets really interested in the science of snake bites. And we'll talk more about that too, but some great sources. Okay, their son Bridger was born in 2017.

• 12:36Wes Larson?

  And because of, you know, having a kid at her job, Turin got three months maternity leave from her job. And they knew that they probably were never gonna have that kind of time off again, and an opportunity to really travel. So they decided to buy this old RV, it was kind of like a van. And they made it into this makeshift RV. And they hit the road for a month, traveling around the Western United States. This kid's only a few weeks old at this time. And they're like, you know what, let's take him on his first road trip at a few weeks old, which is pretty crazy. And I admire that. Like, you gotta be super tired when you have a newborn. And they're like, yeah, let's go on a road trip.

• 13:13Jeff Larson?

  It's like one of those things where the kid grows up and the parents can be like, "We did take you to Yosemite, actually."

• 13:21Wes Larson?

  You've been there.

• 13:24Wes Larson?

  On their road trip, they did a lot of stuff. They surfed in Oregon, they explored Canyonlands, they went canyoneering in the Santa Rafael swell in Utah, and they took pictures with their newborn son all across some of the most beautiful spots in the West. But they also realized that it was really hard traveling with a newborn baby. They didn't get a lot of sleep. He was kind of colicky, so it means when babies get colicky, they cry a lot. They're really hard to get, you know, to stop crying. And they were really tired as they pulled into their last stop, which was Yosemite National Park. Luckily, Kyle's family was already in Yosemite waiting for him. His brother Garrett

• 14:05Wes Larson?

  actually worked in the park. He was a botanist in charge of vegetation health, and his wife Erin was also a botanist. And the two of them lived right outside the park. They were so obsessed with climbing that they just wanted to live around Yosemite for like the rest of their lives.

• 14:20Mike Smith?

  I have a brother named Garrett. It's gotta be a different person, right?

• 14:24Wes Larson?

  It could be the same Garrett, because this Garrett's also like a crazy athlete, and so is your Garrett, right?

• 14:29Mike Smith?

  He runs like 17 trillion miles in the desert sometimes for fun. It's a marathon.

• 14:35Wes Larson?

  I think this Garrett's similar.

• 14:37Jeff Larson?

  It's not the person you're saying.

• 14:40Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 14:41Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 14:42Wes Larson?

  Her name's not Erin.

• 14:43Mike Smith?

  Okay. Ooh, that was close.

• 14:46Wes Larson?

  So Kyle's parents are also there. They're in their RV. And because of this, Kyle and Turin finally have a lot of help with Bridger, and their spirits are high. I spent a good chunk of my life not drinking coffee. And then when I started, it really gave me a ton of energy, but I realized that I would crash as soon as it wore off. And I also realized I was needing more and more as time progressed, and it became a habit, which I really didn't want. And the thing that I've learned is that tea really works differently. The caffeine in tea comes bundled with L-theanine and polyphenols and the way it exists in the plant. And that's what gives you a noticeably steadier feeling. There's less spike and less drop. An Element Lemonade Iced Tea uses a full black tea extract, not isolated caffeine.

• 15:29Wes Larson?

  Plus, there's a meaningful dose of electrolytes. There's no sugar, no artificial colors, no other weird ingredients. It's built on the same formula as Element's core drink mix, which is sodium, potassium, and magnesium at levels that are shown to support optimal hydration. You get that little bump in energy that you would get from tea, plus the really good hydration electrolytes that you're already getting with Element. And you don't have to take my word for it. Element is trusted by athletes, professionals, nutritionists all over the world. Another thing that I really like about it is I love the taste and it kind of helps decrease my sweet tooth throughout the day, which is just great. And I love the lemonade iced tea flavor. I think it's delicious. It's just the right amount of lemonade and iced tea flavoring. And I just, I absolutely crave it.

• 16:14Wes Larson?

  So you can get a free eight-count sample pack of Element's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase of drinkelement.com/tooth. That's drink L-M-N-T dot com slash tooth. Find your favorite flavor and share it with a friend.

• 16:29Speaker 03

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• 16:59Speaker 04

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• 17:30Wes Larson?

  So they're, they're starting to have a great time. One night on one of their first nights in the park, they're sitting up at night, they're having some glasses of wine and Garrett proposes that they go on a walk to see some wildflowers in this remote meadow.

• 17:43Mike Smith?

  Baby shouldn't be drinking wine. Are you serious?

• 17:45Wes Larson?

  The baby, the baby's not having wine. Uh, the baby, I don't know where the baby is. But Garrett says they should go see these wildflowers in a remote meadow above one of the entrance towns to Yosemite and below another one of the towns. So it's on this mountain that kind of sits in between these two towns. And the group gets up in the morning and they're climbing through this beautiful, like classic Yosemite type surroundings, big granite slabs, beautiful forest. And they get to this meadow and it's early May and they're just dazzled by all the different types of wildflowers that are in bloom. There's these big flooded rivers running down the mountainside. It's just a gorgeous, perfect spring day. And at around 11:45 in the morning, they get to this really scenic bridge that

• 18:28Wes Larson?

  passes over this sliding waterfall. So a sliding waterfall is one that kind of cascades down the granite and they decide it's a good place to take a break. And Bridger starts kind of letting them know that he's hungry. So Turin takes them over to this granite outcropping to nurse Bridger. And meanwhile, the rest of the group gets out some snacks. And everyone's resting and relaxing and snacking on this perfect spring day. And Kyle is kind of standing near the bridge and he's getting ready to probably change Bridger's diaper. So he's spreading this little blanket out on the ground. He steps off into the grass and he feels a light tap just above the sock on his right ankle. And he briefly remembers

• 19:08Wes Larson?

  seeing what looked like a dusty red coil with a diamond pattern in the grass. And then he starts jumping around yelling [BLEEP]. His parents rush over asking what happened and he told them he had been bitten by a rattlesnake. His mom tells him to stop moving to slow the spread of the venom. And then he leans into his dad's arms and he immediately passes out within a minute of being bitten.

• 19:32Jeff Larson?

  Whoa. Wow. Our parents would be like, Serge, you're right for saying the F word.

• 19:40Wes Larson?

  It'd be like, okay, but you shouldn't use that language. So Kyle starts vomiting violently on the ground, still unconscious. He then wakes up to the sound of his parents talking about how best to get him out of there. And Turin, who had been nursing Bridger and then had started changing his diaper, rushed in and asked if he had been stung by a bee or maybe something else. And apparently Kyle was severely allergic to bee stings. Maybe he just got bit by the snake on purpose to not have to change another diaper, you know?

• 20:12Mike Smith?

  Doesn't seem very fun. Have you ever changed a diaper?

• 20:15Wes Larson?

  I've changed a lot of diapers. Yeah.

• 20:17Mike Smith?

  I did once. I didn't have that much fun with it.

• 20:20Wes Larson?

  I shouldn't say a lot, but probably like, I bet I've changed 30 diapers in my life.

• 20:25Jeff Larson?

  Sounds like Kyle's even more allergic to rattlesnakes than bees.

• 20:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that he passed out immediately.

• 20:33Jeff Larson?

  That's a quick reaction to it, right?

• 20:35Wes Larson?

  Yeah, and we're going to talk about that. Anyway, Turin thought it was probably a bee.

• 20:38Mike Smith?

  We won't.

• 20:39Wes Larson?

  We are going to. How much do you want to bet, Nee?

• 20:44Wes Larson?

  Let's add to it.

• 20:47Wes Larson?

  That's what I thought. So she thinks it's probably a bee. He had been stung by a bee before and had had serious reactions. But she runs over and she asks, you know, was it a bee? And his one word, his one word response was rattlesnake and she started shaking. No one in this group had ever dealt with a rattlesnake bite before, including his mom, who had been an emergency room nurse and had helped with a ton of search and rescue. Her and his dad have done a lot of search and rescue. But they did know that the main thing they had to do was get Kyle to medical help as soon as possible. And whoever wants to say it first, you guys remember the two most important tools when someone gets bit by a venomous snake?

• 21:29Mike Smith?

  Phone keys.

• 21:31Wes Larson?

  Phone and keys. Call for help and get to help as quickly as possible. And the phone kind of has a double use too. If you're able to take a photo of that snake. So you can idea properly. Don't try and catch it. Don't try and mess with it anymore, but try and get a photo of it.

• 21:48Jeff Larson?

  You said though, that he's right next to a water slide, right?

• 21:52Wes Larson?

  A waterfall. Yeah.

• 21:53Jeff Larson?

  Well, you didn't say waterfall. You said.

• 21:55Wes Larson?

  I said sliding waterfall.

• 21:58Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. So why would they just put him down there?

• 22:01Wes Larson?

  They it would kill him if they did. That's why they don't.

• 22:04Mike Smith?

  Then why did you bring it up? There was like such a check off.

• 22:07Wes Larson?

  Just you wait, dude. Just you wait. All right. Kind of. All right. So Kyle feels as sick as he ever has in his entire life and he's been really sick on some of his world travels. And he's hoping that maybe this, the only effect of the venom is going to be him getting violently ill. And he's lying on this slab of granite and he knows that there's a number of potential outcomes, even including amputation or death. But he hopes that this is just going to be a minor bite that he's able to walk away from. And unfortunately, he's not going to be that lucky. So Kyle says something in our, in the article that as he's talking about this bite. And it's something that he learned after he learned more and more about snake bites and venom.

• 22:52Wes Larson?

  And it's a saying I really liked. And the saying is time is tissue. Which basically means the longer it takes you to get to medical attention and anti venom, the more tissue you're probably going to lose.

• 23:04Mike Smith?

  So just judging by the fact that he's writing this article.

• 23:08Wes Larson?

  He's not dead.

• 23:09Mike Smith?

  But you said he wasn't, he wasn't lucky enough to get up and walk away. Is he still there?

• 23:15Wes Larson?

  Uh, he's, I, I didn't say that. I see what you're saying. But he's not gonna walk away under his own power is what I meant. But thank you. Thanks for keeping me honest, Mike. I appreciate that. All right. So the vomiting is now coming in waves every few minutes and it's getting worse and worse. And Kyle's family's starting to get really worried because none of them had ever seen anyone so violently sick before. And Garrett decides he's gonna sprint to where he knows he's gonna get some cellphone reception. He gets there, he immediately calls emergency services and they tell him they're gonna dispatch a lifeflight helicopter and an ambulance. But they don't really know, they see that there's this road kinda leading up near where this group is.

• 23:59Wes Larson?

  But they don't know that that two-track road leading up there is completely impassable. It's covered in logs. Kyle continues vomiting, turns nervously trying to comfort him and his leg is now starting to just be burning with pain. And there's these streams of blood that are running from his fang puncture wounds. Part of that is because venom has an anticoagulant in it. So there are some types of snake venom that'll make you clot up. But some will, some will also make your, their anticoagulants. So you just continue bleeding. And that's what's happening to him.

• 24:33Wes Larson?

  Garrett continues running toward this town of Floresta, which is the one up higher on the mountain. And he's hoping to intercept this ambulance on the road at the furthest point that they could make it. And he gets to another waterfall, another sliding waterfall in a flooded creek. Where this old bridge had burned down over this waterfall, burned down. And there's only these four steel girders going over this waterfall, this raging river. They're kind of like these long steel beams that are going over it. And they're wet from the mist of this raging creek. It's like a really dicey place to cross. But he knows that if he doesn't cross here, he's gonna have to run like another mile to get across this creek on a bridge like upriver.

• 25:16Mike Smith?

  It reminds me of nine eleven a little.

• 25:18Wes Larson?

  How so?

• 25:19Mike Smith?

  The steel beams.

• 25:21Wes Larson?

  Oh yeah, sure.

• 25:23Jeff Larson?

  No, but these ones are still there.

• 25:26Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 25:26Wes Larson?

  They're not, they're not melted.

• 25:28Mike Smith?

  Fuel didn't melt him.

• 25:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 25:29Mike Smith?

  Yeah, that's why I said it reminds me just a little bit.

• 25:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Must not have been a jet that burned this bridge down.

• 25:38Wes Larson?

  But yeah, he doesn't want to waste like another 20 minutes running up to this other bridge. So he just decides he gonna, he's gonna go for it. And just to kind of paint this picture, if he were to slip and fall into this waterfall, a few dozen yards downstream, it goes over like a 200 foot waterfall.

• 25:55Jeff Larson?

  That's crazy.

• 25:56Wes Larson?

  It's like the type that if you fall in, you're going to die.

• 26:00Jeff Larson?

  They need that on Ninja Warrior because it's gotten stale.

• 26:04Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 26:05Mike Smith?

  Low risk of death.

• 26:06Wes Larson?

  There needs to be certain death involved in that show. So he goes for it though, and he kind of scoots across one of these steel beams and he manages to get across. And then he runs two more miles through rough terrain, up 800 feet of elevation, and he does all of this in 19 minutes. So pretty amazing. Like two miles in 19 minutes, if you're running on a track, isn't that impressive? But if you're running through forest and crossing waterfalls and whatnot, that's like pretty incredible.

• 26:35Mike Smith?

  It's crazy. Yeah. It's really impressive.

• 26:38Wes Larson?

  The head paramedic, whose name is Montoya, is speeding toward the area in an ambulance. But in the meantime, he'd also tried to order a helicopter that was hoist equipped. And that pretty much just means one that can lower one of those backboards down and pick someone up because not all life flight helicopters can do that. And he knew this area, this paramedic, and he thought there's no way just any life flight helicopter is going to be able to land there. They're going to have to be able to drop a hoist to pick him up and take him out. So he's trying to get one of those special types of helicopters. And he knew that also trying to get Kyle to move at all, or like physically exert himself at all, is going to lead toward that venom spreading more than it needs to.

• 27:20Wes Larson?

  Because remember, if you're bitten by a venomous snake, the other thing to remember, aside from getting your keys and your phone, is you want to stay as calm as you possibly can. You want to move the least amount. You don't want your blood pumping through your body. So you want it pumping through your body, but not extra.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in-store and on lululemon.com now.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  Ugh, I hate Mondays.

• 28:10Speaker 05

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Swirl Bite?

• 28:11Speaker 04

  Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.

• 28:17Speaker 05

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 28:19Speaker 04

  But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites.

• 28:23Speaker 05

  Taylor Hansen? Nice. Try one. Mmm.

• 28:30Speaker 06

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites. There's nothing like it.

• 28:39Jeff Larson?

  I don't understand why Kyle needs his keys right now.

• 28:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you know, this is probably one where you wouldn't need your keys.

• 28:47Mike Smith?

  Do you know what he could really use is like a water slide?

• 28:53Mike Smith?

  To like get down the mountain quick?

• 28:55Jeff Larson?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 28:56Wes Larson?

  Just drop you over a few huge cliff waterfalls?

• 28:59Mike Smith?

  You wouldn't even have to move. You're telling him not to move. That's like-

• 29:03Wes Larson?

  It'd probably be a less painful death.

• 29:06Wes Larson?

  All right, so apparently on that same day, and unfortunately for Kyle, it was kind of a banner day for search and rescue. There's a lot happening in the park, including someone that had found a blood-soaked sheet by one of the waterfalls, which is kind of an ominous thing to find. And then one of those towns, I think it was Floresta, had a big, no, it was the other town, had a big fire. So a lot of the different helicopters and personnel and everything are busy, and it led to Kyle having to wait longer than he probably would have otherwise. But finally, they do find a hoist-equipped helicopter, but it's in a town that's an hour and 45 minutes away.

• 29:47Wes Larson?

  So Garrett finds the ambulance. Sure enough, they're stuck in this road. The medics are getting out of the ambulance and they're loading up all the lifesaving equipment they could carry because they know they're gonna have to hike up to where Kyle is. And Garrett actually knows some of these guys and they throw them some of the gear and all four of them take off running down the road. And they get to this bridge that Garrett had just crossed and the lead paramedic is like, nope, we're not doing that. He's, you know, if any of us slip, we're going to die. We're not gonna take that chance. So they sprint upriver like 20 minutes and find another bridge to cross and then they bushwhack and kind of sidehill it over to where Kyle is. And they actually do manage

• 30:28Wes Larson?

  to get back to Kyle within an hour of his snake bite, which is pretty impressive considering all of the challenges that they're facing. When they get to Kyle, he's not doing great. Although, Mike, you might think that he was doing great based on what I'm about to tell you.

• 30:44Jeff Larson?

  Oh, I know.

• 30:46Wes Larson?

  When Garrett and the paramedics arrived, Kyle's lying on the ground with his pants off. And that's because in addition to the violent bouts of vomiting, he'd also been having violent bouts of diarrhea.

• 30:57Mike Smith?

  Whoa.

• 30:57Wes Larson?

  His parents had been-

• 30:58Jeff Larson?

  Sounds like when I just got norovirus. Maybe I got bit by a snake.

• 31:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah, could have been. He barely even felt the snake bite.

• 31:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 31:06Wes Larson?

  His parents had been rolling him back and forth for almost an hour, depending on what end it was coming out of. And the ground around him is soaked in vomit and shit. He's pale, he's sweaty, he's moaning in pain, his blood isn't clotting, so it's continuing to weep from these faint marks.

• 31:24Mike Smith?

  His poop isn't clotting either.

• 31:25Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 31:30Mike Smith?

  Is that what you'd call that?

• 31:31Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 31:32Mike Smith?

  Coag- or anticoagulated poop?

• 31:38Wes Larson?

  There's starting to be some also pretty intense bruising and swelling on his leg, which is a sign that the venom was doing its terrible work and that he's hemorrhaging internally. Now, something that I really like about this article that he wrote and some of the interviews that he's done is he got really into learning about venom and exactly how it works. And he talked to a lot of experts and he got some really clear explanations and it really helped me conceptualize how it works too. So I really liked learning about this story because I feel like I understand rattlesnake venom a lot better than I used to. So we're gonna go over a few of his symptoms and then kind of explanations for what might have happened.

• 32:20Wes Larson?

  And I just wanna, we've said this before, not all snake venom works the same and not even all rattlesnake venom works the same. In fact, like even certain species, their venom will be different depending on the elevation that they live at. So this explanation doesn't, isn't like a catch-all for all snakes, but it is gonna fit the snake that bit Kyle, which is the Northern Pacific rattlesnake. We've talked about Southern Pacific when we did that um Synanon episode, the cult that put the rattlesnake in the mailbox, and this is the Northern Pacific rattlesnake.

• 32:55Jeff Larson?

  Hmm.

• 32:56Wes Larson?

  Okay, so basically, when a rattlesnake injects venom into its prey or a threat, it's injecting a mix of proteins and peptides and enzymes that are essentially modified existing proteins that are often found in mammals. So these venom proteins are mimicking what our natural proteins do, but in like an inappropriate way or in concentrations that are way too high. To make that a little bit simpler to understand, proteins are responsible for docking with cells in our body and then they cause responses. So everything that you do, everything from like smiling to digesting food to breathing is set in action by proteins and cells working together.

• 33:39Wes Larson?

  So proteins are kind of like the light switch for cells to tell them what to do. Now venom proteins also attach to the cells just the way that our proteins do. But instead of making the cells do what they would typically do. They sabotage how those cells work and they knock those whole system out of balance. So I think a lot of people have this idea of venom being like this foreign thing that's injected into us. It kind of just melts your body away. And that's not what it's doing. It's actually really similar to stuff that we already have in our body. But it's just different enough that it tricks our body into doing some really crazy shit. And kind of destroying itself, which is really interesting. And that's snakes have evolved that venom to be specific to mammals.

• 34:23Wes Larson?

  Rattlesnakes have because that's their main prey. They mostly eat rodents and small mammals. All right, so let's look at some of these examples based on Kyle's symptoms of what these proteins are doing in the venom. So pretty much immediately he went unconscious.

• 34:40Jeff Larson?

  It's interesting that venom from Marvel was able to do that because he is from outer space. So he wouldn't have evolved.

• 34:51Wes Larson?

  Alongside mammals?

• 34:52Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 34:53Wes Larson?

  We don't know that. Maybe there's mammals in his planet.

• 34:56Jeff Larson?

  Okay, yeah. No, never mind.

• 34:59Wes Larson?

  Okay. Can't venom turn into like anything too? His proteins work on everything.

• 35:03Jeff Larson?

  Does he even have venom?

• 35:05Wes Larson?

  I don't know. He just bites people's heads off, right?

• 35:08Jeff Larson?

  I don't think he ever venomized anyone.

• 35:12Wes Larson?

  Yeah. All right. So pretty much immediately Kyle goes unconscious. And that's likely because our bodies use proteins that regulate blood pressure and cause our veins and our arteries to either expand or contract. So when they contract, like if your arteries and your veins get smaller and your vessels, blood pressure goes up because there's less space for your blood to move in. And when they expand, it goes down because suddenly there's a lot of space for your blood to move in. So Northern Pacific rattlesnake venom has a protein that sends that same message, but it tells the body to immediately relax all of the vessels to control blood flow.

• 35:54Wes Larson?

  So they expand, they get wide open, and because of gravity, blood doesn't have the pressure anymore to reach his brain and he passes out.

• 36:02Mike Smith?

  Hmm. Whoa.

• 36:04Wes Larson?

  One of the more destructive aspects of rattlesnake venom starts working on Kyle at that point, and that's an enzyme called metalloproteinase. And what this enzyme does is it attacks the cellular architecture of our bodies. So basically, it attacks the proteins that hold the cells together in our skin, in our muscles, in our tissue, and, and really key is in our vein walls. So your veins have walls, like the outer part of your veins, and that's composed of cells and proteins that are, you know, connected together. And what this specific enzyme does is it breaks all those connections. So it essentially dissolves your vein walls. It turns your veins into mush. Yeah.

• 36:48Mike Smith?

  That's so weird.

• 36:49Wes Larson?

  Really nasty. And so when, when that starts happening, your body panics and it sends a lot of fluid and clotting agents to try and slow down this damage and repair those cells. But the snake venom actually has an answer for this. It has a peptide called disintigrin, which are proteins that attack and destroy the clotting agents that your body sent. So it's kind of like this game of chess where rattlesnake venom always has an answer for everything that your body is doing to try and stop it.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 37:46Speaker 04

  Ugh, I hate Mondays. King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite? Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.

• 37:55Speaker 05

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 37:58Speaker 04

  But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.

• 38:03Speaker 05

  Taylor Hansen? Nice. Try one. Mmm. Bites.

• 38:10Speaker 06

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.

• 38:18Wes Larson?

  And a cool thing to think about is like, we talked about the blood pressure changes. Like if that were to happen to a mouse, like if a rattlesnake bites a mouse and suddenly its veins open wide and it passes out, that's all it needs. The rattlesnake then slithers over and eats it, you know? So like, a lot of these secondary kind of things that its venom is doing, aren't really happening to its prey. It's happening to like, big mammals that it's defending itself from. It's likely another toxin that made the smooth muscles in his digestive system convulse, and that's probably what led to everything in his stomach being pushed out through one end or the other end. Jeff, what are those ends?

• 38:57Jeff Larson?

  Mouth and butthole.

• 38:59Wes Larson?

  Mouth and butthole. Exactly. That's where everything's getting pushed out.

• 39:03Mike Smith?

  Do a power ranking, the, your top two holes.

• 39:08Jeff Larson?

  Oh, wow.

• 39:11Jeff Larson?

  I mean, I would just go both nostrils.

• 39:15Mike Smith?

  Really?

• 39:15Wes Larson?

  Both nostrils are your top two holes.

• 39:18Mike Smith?

  You don't want to pick like, one nostril and like, one ear hole?

• 39:22Jeff Larson?

  Oh, that's a good call. You didn't give me enough time.

• 39:25Mike Smith?

  I know, that was my bad.

• 39:28Mike Smith?

  We can, we'll do another episode later and we can revisit that.

• 39:32Wes Larson?

  Power rank holes.

• 39:33Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 39:36Wes Larson?

  Let's not do that episode. All right, uh, let's have that one be one that you guys do while I'm gone.

• 39:41Mike Smith?

  Sounds good.

• 39:42Wes Larson?

  So I did mention that Kyle was starting to get bruising and swelling, and that's that metalloproteinase destroying the vein walls and making him bleed internally. And then other proteins and enzymes are attacking his muscles and tissue, and also destroying those connections and those bonds, and it kind of turns it all into this gelatinous mush. So the destruction of these cells is also releasing a lot of fluid, because cells have fluid in them. And that fluid makes you swell up really badly. Like you have a ton of fluid in your body. When you're, when you're bit by one of these rattlesnakes and all these.

• 40:17Jeff Larson?

  Interesting.

• 40:18Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 40:18Jeff Larson?

  It's weird that you can just get more fluid in your body.

• 40:22Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 40:23Jeff Larson?

  Like it's already in there. What's, how's it getting more?

• 40:26Wes Larson?

  Well, it's because it's contained within cells, you know, it's like, it's in your body, but it's not free to move around. But once those cells rupture, then it is. And then a really like a kind of thing that makes this even worse is that as all that stuff turns into mush as you lose your muscles and your tissue and your veins and everything. It makes it a lot easier for the venom just to spread through your body. Because it doesn't have to like, take the appropriate channels anymore. It can kind of just pass through all this mush that you've created. So it starts spreading a lot faster too, which is terrible.

• 41:00Jeff Larson?

  Dude.

• 41:00Wes Larson?

  I'm never picking up a rattlesnake again after learning about all this. It's like never getting close to them. I don't want to get bit by a rattlesnake. Now, to answer your question earlier, Jeff, or the thing that you brought up, like how fast this happened with him. Venom experts that he spoke with thinks that they think that Kyle's bite, the snake must have hit a vein directly. And delivered the venom directly into that vein. And when that does happen, the effects tend to happen much more quickly.

• 41:29Jeff Larson?

  Like the Steph Curry of rattlesnakes.

• 41:32Mike Smith?

  Yeah, the William Tell.

• 41:33Jeff Larson?

  Just how accurate it was.

• 41:35Wes Larson?

  Oh yeah, very accurate. True. I really liked learning about that. It was really interesting to me. A really good analogy in one of the articles I read was that. If you picture your body as a city and there's all these streets and like your cells and blood and everything are moving on these streets. Rattlesnake venom is like turning all the lights green at the same time. It's not like.

• 41:57Jeff Larson?

  Fast and Furious eight.

• 41:59Wes Larson?

  Exactly.

• 41:59Mike Smith?

  And what happens Jeff? Live free and die hard.

• 42:02Wes Larson?

  Remember? That happens in that too. Yeah. Timothy Oliphant.

• 42:06Mike Smith?

  Uh huh.

• 42:07Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's, it causes chaos. It's not like they're changing the structure and it's not like it's a purple light on the, the stoplight. It's all green lights and it changes everything and it leads to all this chaos in your body. And that's what's happening to Kyle. So he's really just vomiting bile at this point. He's totally emptied his stomach. His mom looks at the bile and she sees blood in it, but she decides not to tell anyone because she's like, listen, like this isn't going to help if I just make everyone more worried.

• 42:38Mike Smith?

  Bile and Kyle sound suspiciously similar.

• 42:42Wes Larson?

  They do.

• 42:42Mike Smith?

  Do you think that has anything to do with this?

• 42:45Wes Larson?

  It, it could. Put a pin in that, Mike. Pin in that.

• 42:48Mike Smith?

  Are we ever gonna pull that pin out?

• 42:50Wes Larson?

  We're not.

• 42:53Wes Larson?

  I just don't want to talk about it anymore.

• 42:54Jeff Larson?

  What's the snake doing, just watching all this?

• 42:57Wes Larson?

  The snake, yeah, who knows where the snake is. It's like, man, this dude's being a little dramatic.

• 43:03Mike Smith?

  Do you think he'd feel bad? It's like, oh my gosh, an hour of diarrhea and throwing up. I didn't mean for this to happen.

• 43:12Wes Larson?

  Usually they just pass out and I eat them. Yeah. So unfortunately, these medics don't have antivenom and Yosemite is actually one of the few parks in the country where the paramedics regularly do carry antivenom. But they'd used it on snake bites the year before and they hadn't restocked it yet. And I, I have to assume that means like they didn't even have it in their like central office or whatever. Because otherwise I think they would have grabbed it when they left, but they didn't have any antivenom.

• 43:41Jeff Larson?

  It'd be a terrible thing to just forget. Like, oh.

• 43:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah, like, oh crap.

• 43:49Wes Larson?

  So they hook him up to an IV when they get there and they immediately give him a shot of fentanyl. And he starts feeling a lot better. He's in less pain. I think they gave him like an anti-nausea pill as well. And they put him on a backboard. They tie him down. They're ready, or they don't tie him down yet, but they're, they're thinking the helicopter is going to get there pretty soon. So they're basically just getting ready to get him out of there. They're doing their best to keep him comfortable and calm. They even have him take a little family photo with Bridger and Turin where Turin's like doing a thumbs up and they put aviator glasses on Kyle. So this is a tough dude and a tough family and they're handling it about as well as anyone ever could, even though this.

• 44:33Wes Larson?

  This is a very serious envenomation.

• 44:35Jeff Larson?

  And like you do probably want that picture afterwards, you know, so it's it sounds dumb, but it's kind of like, yeah.

• 44:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah. And if you're just waiting for the helicopter, you might as well. So they take him to where they think this helicopter is going to want to pick him up and they're waiting. And they're thinking the helicopter will probably be there in about 20 minutes, but it doesn't show up. And more than an hour passes. And it's been more than an hour since they gave him this IV and the fentanyl. And everything is starting to wear off and his symptoms are returning. And everyone's getting a little panicked because they don't think they can give him more of these drugs or anything. And it's this terrible situation. And then a bee lands on his thigh and stings him.

• 45:16Mike Smith?

  Are you serious?

• 45:17Wes Larson?

  I'm serious.

• 45:20Mike Smith?

  Unbelievable.

• 45:21Wes Larson?

  Kyle looks down, he says, Frank, I'm allergic to the paramedics. And one of the first responders yells out for an EpiPen. And Kyle immediately says, no, do not use an EpiPen on me. Because he's really worried about what the epinephrine might do when it reacts with this venom. They just, none of them have any idea what that combination is going to be like. And I don't either. I don't know if that's like a bad cocktail or not, but he doesn't want to risk it. And sure, he argues with the paramedics for a while. And finally, after like a good amount of time, they're like, you know what? If you were going to go into anaphylactic shock or have like a really bad reaction, you probably would have by now.

• 46:05Wes Larson?

  So we won't give you the EpiPen. And what he, what he says that probably was, and what venom experts say it probably was, is that just like snakes, bees have a lot of different types of venom. And they think Kyle was probably allergic to different types of bees than these bees that stung him in Yosemite. So he kind of lucked out there because he was severely allergic.

• 46:27Mike Smith?

  Yeah, he got really lucky.

• 46:30Wes Larson?

  Okay. Yeah. Super lucky. This is the luckiest dude we know.

• 46:36Mike Smith?

  It's crazy. Go buy a Lotto ticket.

• 46:38Wes Larson?

  It's 4:30 PM when the cable finally lowers from the helicopter and Kyle rises into the air on the backboard. It had been over four hours since he had been bitten by the snake. The helicopter touches down at Doctor's Medical Center of Modesto. He's wheeled into the emergency room where he finally gets his first vial of antivenom about five hours after his bite. In total, he would end up getting 18 vials of antivenom. His leg is turning yellow and black. It had swollen to twice the size of its normal circumference. And he had these like baseball sized blisters that were popping up all over his leg. And that's because your body has like nowhere to put this fluid. So it starts forming these

• 47:20Wes Larson?

  huge blisters all over your leg that are full of fluid. It's disgusting. Like these pictures are so gnarly. Apparently like one of the venom experts he talked to showed him a photo of someone that had that that metalloproteinase like break up all their cells. And it just looked like it was a really bad one. And he said, it just looked like with mush with bones sticking out of it. This can be really nasty, nasty stuff. Okay.

• 47:45Mike Smith?

  Nasty.

• 47:46Wes Larson?

  Nasty, nasty law. It's his.

• 47:50Wes Larson?

  Doctors and nurses that helped him and the ones that had worked on other snake bites say that this was the worst snake bite they'd ever seen. They're giving him, they're giving him morphine every two hours, but the pain is still so intense that he's not able to sleep. And he said, it felt like the nerves were like breaking and popping in his leg. And again, this is someone who's experienced a lot of pain in his career, who's like a pretty tough person. So I definitely believe him when he says that this was insanely painful and intense. Not that I don't believe our other victims do, but like, I take him, you know what I'm saying? You guys know what I'm saying.

• 48:29Mike Smith?

  I got you.

• 48:30Wes Larson?

  So they continue to give him antivenom, but as they're doing this, and this is gonna sound really familiar to you guys, his surgeon starts worrying about his swelling and thinks that he's getting compartment syndrome, which is pretty much where intense swelling prevents proper circulation and it creates these compartments, like parts that are getting circulation and parts that aren't. And those parts that aren't start to die and might have to be amputated. But the fix for this is almost as bad as amputation.

• 49:00Mike Smith?

  Rocky. Yeah, slice him. Cut me.

• 49:03Wes Larson?

  Fasiotomy, exactly. You guys remember when we first learned about this? It was one of our first guests, it was Clara, the rattlesnake victim.

• 49:13Mike Smith?

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:13Wes Larson?

  Who was bitten in Joshua Tree and she had the same thing happen. She had pretty intense compartment syndrome and they were saying they were gonna do a fasciotomy and she was like, no, I don't want a fasciotomy. I want more antivenom. And that's what they ended up doing and she didn't have to get a fasciotomy. And there's a reason people really don't want to get this procedure. And it's because what it entails is they just make these really long and deep incisions all along the length of your leg or whatever body part to sever all the connective tissue and that just relieves all the swelling pressure. So it's like a last ditch scenario, just to try and relieve this pressure, they just flay your leg and it's totally life altering. Like you might not ever walk the same way

• 49:57Wes Larson?

  again, but it's just a way that they can try and save your limb.

• 50:02Speaker 03

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• 50:31Speaker 04

  Ugh, I hate Mondays. Kinks, wine, cinnamon swirl bite? Uh, Taylor Hanson? Sure, I'll try one.

• 50:40Speaker 05

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 50:42Speaker 04

  But Taylor Hanson's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.

• 50:46Speaker 05

  Taylor Hanson? Nice.

• 50:48Mike Smith?

  Try one.

• 50:50Speaker 05

  Mmm.

• 50:53Speaker 06

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.

• 51:03Wes Larson?

  So, they were gonna do it. The doctors had kind of excited, or decided that they were gonna do it. And in the early morning, Kyle's night nurse found a weak pulse in his foot, which meant there was still a little bit of circulation and it was enough to stop the surgeons from doing this fasciotomy. They're probably a little disappointed.

• 51:22Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, they're mad.

• 51:23Mike Smith?

  Not a lot of opportunities to do that.

• 51:26Wes Larson?

  They're like rats. I thought I was finally gonna get to do one.

• 51:31Wes Larson?

  So he's in the hospital for eight days before the doctors thought that his blood platelet levels were high enough to release him. He'd kind of had this like

• 51:38Jeff Larson?

  The doctors just do it to some other guy in the hospital. They're like, let's do it to this guy.

• 51:45Wes Larson?

  They're like, I was all excited to do a fasciotomy.

• 51:49Mike Smith?

  Just looking at everyone's legs. That one looks a little swollen.

• 51:55Wes Larson?

  Apparently, though, this whole time he was in the hospital, he was having this issue where his blood platelets would like crash. And then they would go high enough to where the doctors were okay, and then they would crash again. And it's really serious. It makes you really sick and it makes it so you, you know, have no blood pressure and all this stuff. But finally, they were at a decent level where they could discharge him from the hospital. Guess what his total hospital bill was? Eighteen vials of antivenom in eight days in the hospital.

• 52:22Mike Smith?

  Three hundred thousand dollars.

• 52:24Wes Larson?

  Jeff, you have a guess?

• 52:28Jeff Larson?

  Two hundred eighty-six thousand dollars.

• 52:31Wes Larson?

  Four hundred and fifty thousand dollars was his hospital bill. Luckily, luckily, he, yeah, almost a half a million dollars. Luckily, he did have health insurance and I believe it was mostly covered.

• 52:43Jeff Larson?

  The good guys.

• 52:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah, health insurance to the rescue.

• 52:48Wes Larson?

  It did make me think like the, this is one of the rare people that's like, well, paying my premiums was worth it. I got my money's worth with my health insurance, you know? Unfortunately, this snake bite had some really severe psychological damage for him. He really struggled to regain his confidence. He used to be a generally like, kind of risk prone person. He was willing to take risks to get a sense of adventure and he was very spontaneous. And the snake bite really changed his perception of life and kind of how he viewed risk. And, and he would see things slithering in the forest and get freaked out and not want to be in the forest anymore. And it led to some pretty severe depression and some, some real issues for him.

• 53:33Jeff Larson?

  Might be good for like Jameis Winston or like a quarterback who throws a ton of interceptions to get bit by rattlesnake.

• 53:41Wes Larson?

  Risky.

• 53:42Jeff Larson?

  Just take a little less risks afterwards.

• 53:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah, they should try that. But from what I, this was in 2017 that he wrote this article and I do believe he's overcome a lot of that. I hope so. It seems like, you know, this is someone who's really living life to its full extent and I hope he's able to regain that confidence and, um, and yeah, and like he has two kids now and, um, and I hope he's feeling a lot better.

• 54:11Mike Smith?

  Me too.

• 54:12Wes Larson?

  I don't.

• 54:12Mike Smith?

  All right. Okay.

• 54:14Wes Larson?

  No, you don't what?

• 54:15Mike Smith?

  I don't like that story.

• 54:19Mike Smith?

  In that I hope it never happens to me. I guess is kind of what I was gonna say, but I didn't do that very eloquently. So I apologize.

• 54:26Wes Larson?

  Well, I kind of interrupted you.

• 54:28Jeff Larson?

  It would be a good excuse to try fentanyl though.

• 54:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah. The more, the more I learn about fentanyl, the more I learn that like what the media and the police think it is, is completely different from what it actually is, which is like a very powerful painkiller. But it's not one that if you like touch or get like residue on your fingers, you pass out. Like it's just, it's a painkiller. It's something doctors use all the time. It's just powerful.

• 54:58Mike Smith?

  I hope my doctor isn't using it.

• 55:00Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 55:03Wes Larson?

  They use it on patients all the, well, they probably are a lot of doctors.

• 55:06Mike Smith?

  Doing the fent, fentline as he's like looking in your ear hole.

• 55:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you'd have to try it a little, right? Just give it a little try.

• 55:17Mike Smith?

  I don't know. The, that show, Cops, or whatever that show is, if you touch it, you die.

• 55:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you just.

• 55:24Mike Smith?

  You die immediately.

• 55:25Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you pass out. I remember, I, I think I've said this before on the podcast, but listening to this show where they talked to a fentanyl expert and he was like, if you put a pool of fentanyl in front of me right now, I would swim in it and I would be fine. And he's just laughing about all these videos. All right. Okay, you guys got any questions about this? I, I actually want to echo what Mike just said about this, like, being terrible. I used to play it pretty fast and loose around rattlesnakes. And I used to just kind of think, you know, rattlesnake bite isn't that serious as far as snake bites go. And like, I would be fine. And I think a big part of this is because my grandpa got bit by like a baby rattlesnake.

• 56:06Wes Larson?

  And I grew up believing that myth that they were like the worst ones, which is not true. And just kind of thought that I'd be okay. And now I know, don't mess around with rattlesnakes. Give them their space. They are the gentlemen of snakes. They warn you before they bite you generally. This one did not rattle. So sometimes you still get bit without a rattle, but typically you get warned. Just give them their space.

• 56:29Jeff Larson?

  We should make a tooth and claw flag or something with a rattlesnake that says, don't step on me.

• 56:36Wes Larson?

  I like that.

• 56:36Mike Smith?

  Yeah. What color do you think? Like a good color for it would be?

• 56:40Jeff Larson?

  They look yellow. Black and yellow?

• 56:43Mike Smith?

  Black and yellow.

• 56:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah, anyway, I think they're beautiful animals. Don't, don't like hate rattlesnakes. They are really important to their ecosystems. They could do a lot of rodent control for us. They're incredibly beautiful, well adapted, well evolved animals. And they deserve to be out there, but just be careful around them. You just gotta be careful.

• 57:03Jeff Larson?

  Tell that to Rango.

• 57:05Wes Larson?

  Yeah, Rango dealt with like an evil rattlesnake, but he still deserved to be out there, I think. He ended up kind of being a hero.

• 57:13Jeff Larson?

  The rattlesnake?

• 57:14Wes Larson?

  Yeah, he kills the bad guy.

• 57:16Jeff Larson?

  He is the bad guy.

• 57:18Wes Larson?

  No.

• 57:18Mike Smith?

  You need to watch Rango again.

• 57:20Wes Larson?

  You gotta watch Rango again.

• 57:21Mike Smith?

  Come over to my place, we'll watch Rango.

• 57:23Jeff Larson?

  All right.

• 57:24Wes Larson?

  I love that movie. Rango's so good.

• 57:28Mike Smith?

  Your fellow Dior model voices him. That's awesome, dude.

• 57:31Wes Larson?

  He also did the same fragrance, Sauvage.

• 57:34Mike Smith?

  Ryan, did you talk to him about Rango?

• 57:36Wes Larson?

  No, but he did. He voiced the narration for the trailer of the film they made with me. Yeah, but I never met him.

• 57:44Jeff Larson?

  Where do you stand with his divorce?

• 57:47Wes Larson?

  Complicated feelings about Johnny Depp.

• 57:50Wes Larson?

  I'll say this. I, I was very much like, I, I just believed Amber Heard. I was a hundred percent on her side. The, the guys that knew him that I worked with at Dior, that knew him well, said that they were kind of just like, both of them have some serious relationship issues.

• 58:08Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it seems like they both had.

• 58:10Wes Larson?

  How they viewed it.

• 58:11Jeff Larson?

  Sometimes both people in a relationship can be bad. You don't need to take, you don't need to take either one of their side.

• 58:18Wes Larson?

  Yeah, but I think, I think like men have the ability to be a lot scarier and more threatening and dangerous in those situations sometimes.

• 58:27Mike Smith?

  What?

• 58:27Wes Larson?

  I do think that's what happened there. So that's why I still tend to kind of stray toward her side.

• 58:32Mike Smith?

  Was it the man or the woman who pooed on the bed?

• 58:35Wes Larson?

  But that's not dangerous and threatening. That's like funny. That's comedy.

• 58:39Mike Smith?

  E. coli, that's dangerous. I think next time before Amber takes a dump on his bed again, she should get bit by a rattlesnake. So it's all like liquidy.

• 58:49Wes Larson?

  So she can just keep doing it, empty your entire bowels.

• 58:54Mike Smith?

  That'd be a good move.

• 58:56Wes Larson?

  Ah, yeah, you know, though I will say to answer your question, Jeff, I don't know if he's like one of the celebrities that's like canceled enough for me that I wouldn't watch anything that he's in, you know? That's where I kind of stand with him.

• 59:09Jeff Larson?

  Nothing came out that was like unforgivable.

• 59:13Wes Larson?

  I think there was some stuff that was unforgivable, but it was like stuff where I could still appreciate his movies, even if I really don't like him as a person.

• 59:23Mike Smith?

  Dude, we all got our, I mean, I'm a Polanski fan and that's like a million times worse than what Depp did. Sometimes I just can't help it. I wish I could, but I can't.

• 59:33Wes Larson?

  Chinatown? You're not a fan of him though as a person?

• 59:35Mike Smith?

  The best movie I've ever seen, probably.

• 59:37Wes Larson?

  You're a fan of his work.

• 59:39Mike Smith?

  Exactly.

• 59:39Jeff Larson?

  And his cologne.

• 59:41Mike Smith?

  Huge fan of his fragrance.

• 59:44Wes Larson?

  Polanski's.

• 59:47Wes Larson?

  That would be a weird fragrance. Just smell like old cigars and like probably, I don't know, pee. Okay, let's do our categories. Uh, so they went on a road trip. So I wanted to know your guys' favorite road trip movie.

• 1:00:01Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, the Leaving Las Vegas with Johnny Depp.

• 1:00:05Wes Larson?

  Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas?

• 1:00:07Jeff Larson?

  Nah, I'm just kidding.

• 1:00:08Mike Smith?

  Leaving Las Vegas is Nick Cage. He won an Oscar for that, for all you Nick haters out there. Come at me. I'm gonna fight every last one of you and I'm gonna win.

• 1:00:18Jeff Larson?

  Uh, no, I went with, actually, I really, really liked The Secret Life of Walter Mitty. As far as like a road, I don't know if it's like a typical road trip movie, but it's like, I feel like road trip movies go to a lot of the same places, like Grand Canyon type stuff. And that one just showed you locations that a movie hasn't really shown you before, like, I can't think of any other movie where a significant portions in Greenland.

• 1:00:49Wes Larson?

  Iceland.

• 1:00:50Jeff Larson?

  And,

• 1:00:52Jeff Larson?

  you know, he goes to Greenland.

• 1:00:54Wes Larson?

  He goes to Iceland.

• 1:00:56Mike Smith?

  Uh oh.

• 1:00:56Jeff Larson?

  Oh, I looked at it.

• 1:00:57Mike Smith?

  Play it back. Let's go watch that movie real quick. We'll be back in a minute.

• 1:01:03Wes Larson?

  I like that movie too. There's definitely some parts in it that are like pretty cringey, but I really, it is a good movie. It made me feel really good walking out of it.

• 1:01:11Mike Smith?

  It was cringey in a way that's so forgivable though.

• 1:01:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Mike Smith?

  Because it's just, it's so positive and genuine, you know? It didn't feel like it was, um,

• 1:01:21Wes Larson?

  I agree.

• 1:01:22Mike Smith?

  You know? Yeah, I think you see what I'm saying.

• 1:01:24Jeff Larson?

  We're both right, but I think I'm more right because you tried to correct me.

• 1:01:28Wes Larson?

  Okay. How are we both right?

• 1:01:31Jeff Larson?

  Well, he goes to Iceland and Greenland, but he does go to Greenland.

• 1:01:34Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you are more right then. Yeah.

• 1:01:36Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36Mike Smith?

  I'll give it like 70 30 split.

• 1:01:38Jeff Larson?

  Nuka Greenland. That's where he's at the bar with the locals.

• 1:01:41Wes Larson?

  Okay. Yeah, it's a great pick. Mike, what's your favorite road trip movie?

• 1:01:45Mike Smith?

  It's, it's E2Mama Tambien. I just think it's such a beautiful, poignant movie. I talked about it recently, so I won't go too deep into it, but I just think it's a really interesting coming of age slash political exploration of that little time window in Mexico that, uh, our guy Cassian Andor. Oh man, we love that guy.

• 1:02:07Wes Larson?

  Tigo Luna. I do love him.

• 1:02:08Mike Smith?

  He's a young horny boy. In that movie. So good, though. I love it. I love that movie so much.

• 1:02:17Wes Larson?

  I had a hard time with this because it was really between three movies for me. Mad Max Fury Road, Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? And then the one that I decided to pick, which is Beavis and Butthead Do America.

• 1:02:31Mike Smith?

  Yes.

• 1:02:32Wes Larson?

  That was a movie that my dad rented once when my mom left when I was probably like nine years old. And it was such a weird treat, like such an odd pick for my dad to get that movie. And I thought it was so funny and I recently rewatched it and just thought it was so funny again. So. Yeah, I don't really like the new stuff they've been doing with Beavis and Butthead, but that movie is peak Beavis and Butthead. So, great movie.

• 1:02:59Jeff Larson?

  The, did you see that recent SNL clip where like Ryan Gosling and I think like Colin? Or someone do Beavis and Butthead in the audience and they're just like, we don't know what you're talking about. That's one of my favorite recent SNL clips.

• 1:03:16Wes Larson?

  Yeah. All right, next category. So you guys are gonna know why I came up with this category, but I'm still gonna explain it for everyone. What would you name your metal band? And of course, the reason I thought of this is because his wife's name is Turin. And Turin is a character in the similar, the Silmarillion. And he's like a very tragic character where his dad is cursed. He kills a dragon. The dragon puts a curse on him where he falls in love with his sister, but then when the dragon dies, his sister's broken from that curse. They find out that they've married each other. He kills himself, she kills himself.

• 1:03:57Wes Larson?

  Really tragic story, like one of the best parts of the Silmarillion though, and it's the whole purpose of the book, The Children of Hurin. But The Children of Hurin was narrated by Christopher Lee. Who plays Soraemon and what else does he play? Instruments in metal bands. So it made me think of that.

• 1:04:17Jeff Larson?

  You said we already knew that.

• 1:04:19Mike Smith?

  Yeah, it was very obvious.

• 1:04:20Wes Larson?

  Of course, you guys knew. That's like where my mind went.

• 1:04:24Wes Larson?

  So I wanted to know what you would name your metal band? Cause I've always had a good idea for that and I wanted to say it.

• 1:04:31Mike Smith?

  Dave Barry, one of my favorite writers ever, humor columnist. He, every time he encountered a funny turn of phrase, he would always say that that would make like a fun, funny band name or a metal band name. And my favorite one he ever identified was Shark Puke. There's just something about those two words together. That's really stuck in my brain ever since I first read it forever ago. So Shark Puke would be my metal band name.

• 1:04:57Wes Larson?

  Jeff?

• 1:04:58Jeff Larson?

  I went with the Tooth and Claw Band.

• 1:05:02Mike Smith?

  Uh, that's really, that's solid. Yeah.

• 1:05:06Wes Larson?

  Don't tread on me. Don't step on me. Could be our, yeah, our first album.

• 1:05:12Wes Larson?

  Mine's Wet Nightmare. You know, cause we've all had wet dreams, but this is a wet nightmare. So.

• 1:05:18Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. What does that, what does that, give me an example of a wet nightmare?

• 1:05:23Wes Larson?

  You've never had one before?

• 1:05:25Jeff Larson?

  I just don't know. Yeah. It's normally just a wet dream for me.

• 1:05:28Wes Larson?

  I've had some wet nightmares. I had one where I was like rolling on this huge plastic red ball and it would like crush me. And I like had a wet nightmare.

• 1:05:40Mike Smith?

  That is pretty.

• 1:05:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:42Mike Smith?

  Inexplicable.

• 1:05:44Jeff Larson?

  That's a great example. Thank you.

• 1:05:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah. All right. What movie are you most excited for this summer?

• 1:05:53Wes Larson?

  Can I go first on this one?

• 1:05:55Mike Smith?

  Please.

• 1:05:55Jeff Larson?

  Sure.

• 1:05:57Wes Larson?

  I'm really excited for the movie, The End of Oak Street. I feel like it's the one with, why am I blinking on their names? Anne Hathaway and, uh, Ewan McGregor, where they're in the seventies or eighties and their street suddenly gets transported to like prehistoric times. There's dinosaurs, dinosaurs everywhere. It's directed by the guy that did It Follows. And it to me looks really fun and just like a totally unique idea. And I'm really excited to see a scary dinosaur movie that's not a Jurassic movie. Like those have gotten really stale and this just seems like it's gonna be a really fun time at the movies. So I'm really excited for it.

• 1:06:41Jeff Larson?

  I had the same choice.

• 1:06:43Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:06:44Jeff Larson?

  I like that from what it seems like there's not too much explanation. I don't need an explanation. Just give me dinosaurs in a suburb and I'm happy. And they're just like, hey, one day you wake up and there's dinosaurs in your town.

• 1:07:00Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:02Wes Larson?

  I'm really excited for Supergirl, actually. I'm still, I've developed something of a fondness for Superman and his little universe, so. Excited for that. But the one I'm actually most excited for is a movie called The Rivals of Amziah King. It's a Matthew McConaughey movie that's coming out soon. It's about kind of this weird mafia type of organization that is very controlling of bees and honey in this very specific region in the United States. And just, it looks really interesting and fun and kind of authentic and rustic. It just looks pretty cool. Yeah. I'm excited for it. It's like a bee honey caper kind of story thing.

• 1:07:42Jeff Larson?

  Bee honey mafia.

• 1:07:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:45Jeff Larson?

  Wow.

• 1:07:46Wes Larson?

  A little bit of some bluegrass music.

• 1:07:49Jeff Larson?

  Also shout out Spider-Man. I love that guy.

• 1:07:55Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I, you know, I like the new Spider-Man movies, so I'll definitely see it. I think they need to take it easy a little bit on the green screen. And like film in some real locations, but I hope they did that on this one. So, yeah. All right. Would you rather take a bite from a Northern Pacific rattlesnake? Or vomit once a day, every day for the rest of your life and you never know when it's going to happen?

• 1:08:20Jeff Larson?

  I'll take the rattlesnake.

• 1:08:22Mike Smith?

  Me too.

• 1:08:22Jeff Larson?

  Easily.

• 1:08:24Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:25Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I think I would too. It's not easy for me, though, because there's a decent chance you lose a limb or something. And I'd rather vomit once a day every day for the rest of my life than lose a limb. But like. I think I would roll the dice.

• 1:08:36Mike Smith?

  You don't know when it's gonna happen.

• 1:08:38Wes Larson?

  I know.

• 1:08:39Mike Smith?

  That.

• 1:08:39Wes Larson?

  Like I could just do it right now.

• 1:08:41Mike Smith?

  Is so prohibitive.

• 1:08:42Wes Larson?

  I know. Or like wakes you up in the middle of the night. Yeah, I think so too. But it did make me think about it. All right. Uh, really quickly, I just wanted to talk about conservation. Rattlesnakes in general are are doing fairly well. They're animals that are able to adapt to a lot of the disturbances that we cause in their habitat and their environment. But they are animals that are feared by people still. So there's a lot of people that kill rattlesnakes on sight. There are still those like rattlesnake roundups where they kill thousands, if not tens of thousands of snakes. So there are species of rattlesnakes that are threatened. I'm not sure with the Northern Pacific, what its current conservation status is. But I just want to encourage people to appreciate the good that these animals do for the ecosystem.

• 1:09:28Wes Larson?

  And even more than that, I don't think an animal needs to serve an important purpose to humans. For us to see it as worthy of protection, you know? I think that's kind of a far too human centric way of looking at things. They have earned their place here by simply evolving to be what they are. They're beautiful animals. They're wonderful animals. Whether or not you're afraid of them. Um, just let let them be and and give them plenty of space.

• 1:09:54Jeff Larson?

  I feel like all your S's right now are sound like a snake.

• 1:09:58Wes Larson?

  I'm popping my S's.

• 1:09:59Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:59Wes Larson?

  I need I need to get one of those things that helps. I feel like that's happening to me as my teeth move or something that.

• 1:10:05Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:05Wes Larson?

  I don't know.

• 1:10:06Mike Smith?

  Move your microphone off to the side.

• 1:10:08Wes Larson?

  That's okay.

• 1:10:09Jeff Larson?

  I like.

• 1:10:09Wes Larson?

  I've been trying to talk into the side of it more.

• 1:10:11Jeff Larson?

  Snake is saying.

• 1:10:13Wes Larson?

  And then the other thing I'll say is if you do happen to be bit by a rattlesnake, you are going to have this, this kind of desire to do these things that you've heard of before to try and fix it. Things like trying to suck the venom out or putting on a tourniquet. All of those things don't work. Some of them can actually make things worse. So don't do those things. What you need to do is relax, make yourself as calm as possible. And try and get to medical assistance as quickly as possible. Those are the only things that work with rattlesnakes. Anything else, that venom is in your system already. Like it took Kyle less than a minute for him to pass out as an effect from the venom.

• 1:10:56Wes Larson?

  You are not sucking it out. You're not stopping it. Calm down, get to help as quickly as possible. That's what you need to do.

• 1:11:03Jeff Larson?

  Which is what makes it kind of difficult if you do get bit at the top of a water slide. Is if you go down, you have to stay calm the whole time.

• 1:11:12Wes Larson?

  If you can't be excited at all. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. No fun if you get bit by a rattlesnake. Okay.

• 1:11:23Wes Larson?

  I recognize it's been a minute since we've done listener questions, but we will bring that back soon. I promise. I just forgot to prepare it for this episode.

• 1:11:31Jeff Larson?

  You missed one of our categories.

• 1:11:34Wes Larson?

  Which one did I miss? No, I didn't.

• 1:11:38Jeff Larson?

  A favorite, most memorable rattlesnake scene.

• 1:11:41Wes Larson?

  Uh, we got one more category. Your favorite or most memorable rattlesnake scene from TVs or movies.

• 1:11:47Mike Smith?

  You better have a good answer, Jeff.

• 1:11:49Jeff Larson?

  He missed it. He might, he probably has one.

• 1:11:52Wes Larson?

  I, I have an answer.

• 1:11:53Jeff Larson?

  I have a worst and a best. I think for best, True Grit, the newest True Grit, um, with Matt Damon, where she falls in the little cave and there's a bunch of rattlesnakes. That's scary and is well done. And then my least favorite was the movie Babylon, where Margot Robbie gets bit by a rattlesnake. And it just holds on to her neck the whole time and she's freaking out and then someone cuts its head off and sucks the venom out of her neck. And it's just like that. None of that worked for me.

• 1:12:28Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that is a bad scene. You picked, you picked my favorite two, True Grit, even though it's kind of, it doesn't really paint rattlesnakes the right way. I do think it's a really good scene and it's better than a lot of movies like Babylon.

• 1:12:41Mike Smith?

  I kinda like Babylon.

• 1:12:43Wes Larson?

  I like Babylon, but the rattlesnake scene isn't a great rattlesnake.

• 1:12:46Mike Smith?

  I like it because of the rattlesnake, mostly.

• 1:12:49Wes Larson?

  Alright.

• 1:12:50Mike Smith?

  Um, I'll just go with the one where Jean-Claude Van Damme punches it.

• 1:12:57Wes Larson?

  That is a great one.

• 1:12:58Mike Smith?

  That's pretty fun. Is that Hard Target? I forget what the...

• 1:13:01Wes Larson?

  Hard Target, yeah.

• 1:13:03Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:03Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I always get it confused with Hard to Kill.

• 1:13:06Mike Smith?

  Segal.

• 1:13:07Wes Larson?

  Which is Segal.

• 1:13:09Jeff Larson?

  Much better movie.

• 1:13:10Wes Larson?

  Two giants of action movies.

• 1:13:15Wes Larson?

  Alright, well, that's all I got. Um, thank you, everyone, for listening. I hope you enjoyed it. If you want to know more about this particular story, like I mentioned, there are other shows where Kyle tells it in his own words, does a much better job than I ever could. So I think you should check it out if you want to hear it again.

• 1:13:32Mike Smith?

  Smart to say that at the end of the episode.

• 1:13:35Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Uh, Outside has a podcast where he was on it, and then I think Against the Odds, he does an episode with them as well. But, um, I mostly used his article and some other online articles.

• 1:13:46Mike Smith?

  Alright.

• 1:13:47Wes Larson?

  Thanks, Kyle.

• 1:13:47Jeff Larson?

  I owe you $25.

• 1:13:49Wes Larson?

  You do owe me $25. Yeah. I told a story. Alright, see you, guys.

• 1:13:54Jeff Larson?

  Love you, everyone.

• 1:13:55Wes Larson?

  Love you. Bye.