Grizzly Bear Attack - Short King Colin and the Bear on Mt. Doogie Dowler

The intrepid Colin Dowler embarked on a mission to summit the mountain that was named after his grandfather, but a grizzly bear had other ideas. With only a small knife and presumably a normal-sized bike at his disposal, Colin's fight to survive began. Watch here: https://youtu.be/j0OgmeF86hQ ~~ Rocket Money: Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster—join at https://RocketMoney.com/CLAW Graza Olive Oil: Take your food to the next level with Graza Olive Oil—visit ⁠https://graza.co/TOOTH⁠ and use promo code TOOTH for 10% off your first order! Nutrafol: Visit ⁠https://Nutrafol.com⁠ and enter promo code TOOTH for $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping. Mint Mobile: New customers can make the switch today and for a limited time, get unlimited premium wireless for just $15 permonth. Switch now at ⁠https://mintmobile.com/tooth⁠ Hims: To get simple, online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, Hair Loss, Weight Loss, and more, visit ⁠hims.com/TOOTH⁠ for your free online visit ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/c/toothandclawpodcast ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social: Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Smith?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Tooth and Claw. This is Mike, just wanted to give a quick producer's note. So our last episode, many of you noticed that it was only playing a small amount of the beginning portion of the episode. I'm really sorry, I don't know what happened. I tried everything I could. I re-uploaded, told everyone to refresh their feed, closed the app. Nothing was seeming to really work for a small section of you, and for that, I'm really sorry. And at this point, everything should be good, the whole episode should be playing for everybody. So go back and check that out. Imogene was an amazing guest and had so much cool information to share about snow leopards. So go check that out if you haven't, or if you weren't able to. I'm pretty confident this issue is just a one-off thing. It hasn't happened before. I'm gonna try my hardest to never let it happen again. So you're safe to listen to that episode, and this episode, and every other episode

• 0:45Mike Smith?

  we ever do, wherever you want to listen to it. But I thought this would be the perfect opportunity to plug our YouTube channel, because you know the only platform where there were no issues, the whole episode played start to finish, the whole hour and a half, was on our YouTube channel. And that's just Tooth and Claw over on YouTube. You get to see our faces, if that's something that interests you, while you listen to our nonsensical ramblings. Well, at least Jeff and I is nonsensical rambling. Wes, he's doing a great job, very scientifically sound, as always. Anyway, just wanted to get that out there, spread the word. That's all I've got. I've done enough talking, let's get to the episode. Let's go.

• 1:34Jeff Larson?

  Hello everyone, welcome back to Tooth and Claw Podcast. We have Mike Smith.

• 1:39Mike Smith?

  Hey, he's over there. Hey, Mike.

• 1:41Jeff Larson?

  He's an English major. And then we got our bear biologist, Wes Larson.

• 1:48Mike Smith?

  That's me.

• 1:49Jeff Larson?

  And no one can smell a bear faster than Wes.

• 1:52Mike Smith?

  Yep, just follow my nose, I'm like that toucan.

• 1:55Jeff Larson?

  And I was Wes's field tech with some bear work. I studied some business in college.

• 2:03Wes Larson?

  Sure.

• 2:04Jeff Larson?

  If you need business advice.

• 2:06Wes Larson?

  He's your guy.

• 2:07Jeff Larson?

  Could come to me.

• 2:09Wes Larson?

  Uh huh.

• 2:10Jeff Larson?

  I'm a next fit.

• 2:11Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 2:12Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 2:12Wes Larson?

  He's cheap.

• 2:13Jeff Larson?

  So yeah, that's us, tooth and claw.

• 2:15Wes Larson?

  What do you guys think of the, the Winter Olympics? What, what's your, what's your vibe on the Winter Olympics? Mike, I know you love the Summer Olympics.

• 2:22Mike Smith?

  No, baby.

• 2:23Wes Larson?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna answer that myself before I even let you answer. I like the Winter Olympics more. Cause I feel like they do just crazy. Like I was watching the far, the ski jump, like the far one. I forget what it's called, big jump or whatever.

• 2:37Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 2:37Wes Larson?

  And I just thought that's gotta feel better than anything in the entire world. Just launching off this ramp and sailing like hundreds of meters just has to feel amazing.

• 2:48Mike Smith?

  Better than when people twist your toes and their fingers during a pedicure?

• 2:52Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I think it's better than that.

• 2:55Mike Smith?

  I love that feeling.

• 2:56Jeff Larson?

  It's a lot more intense for sure. It's like Summer Olympics, it's just like who can run the fastest? Who can jump the furthest? Who can swim the fastest? And this one, it's like, who can slide the fastest with knives on their feet? Who can go fast for a little bit and then jump as far as they can? And if they don't land on their feet, they lose and they also almost die.

• 3:21Wes Larson?

  Let's go a billion miles per hour on a sled down a loosh.

• 3:25Mike Smith?

  At first. So sweet.

• 3:27Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 3:28Mike Smith?

  Now, I love the Winter Olympics.

• 3:29Wes Larson?

  I love that it's also, it's like Norway's time to shine, you know? It's like Norway is finally like, this is us, you know?

• 3:36Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 3:37Wes Larson?

  I've been loving them. I actually have really gotten into the Olympic spirit and it's been fun to watch. And kind of root for Japan because we were just in Japan. I feel like a lot of their athletes are very likeable.

• 3:48Jeff Larson?

  I like their snowboarders.

• 3:49Wes Larson?

  All right, we're gonna do a bear episode and there's a few reasons I want to do another bear one. Part of it is I have a two parter coming that has nothing to do with bears that I'm really excited about. And then we have a couple other episodes scheduled after that that aren't bear episodes. And it's gonna be a minute before we have another one. So I wanted to do a fun bear episode. And they're definitely the ones we have the most of. And then also. I get a lot of questions from people saying, what bear spray should I buy? And I tell them they're pretty much all the same and they are. I have actually been working on my own bear spray. And it is going to be an improvement over the existing bear spray. I'm really excited about it. I have some partners, we've been working on it for years. That's coming out probably this fall.

• 4:34Wes Larson?

  So I'm not telling people to wait to buy bear spray. If you're going into bear country, definitely just grab a can. But if you aren't needing to buy it, you should wait for mine. Cause I'm really excited about it.

• 4:46Jeff Larson?

  Fall's kind of a bad time to release your bear spray.

• 4:49Wes Larson?

  It is a little late. It'll be hopefully before like hunting season and stuff for people. But yeah, I mean, it's as quick as we probably can get it out.

• 4:57Mike Smith?

  What flavor is it?

• 4:57Wes Larson?

  But I'm excited to talk more about it. Cherry, black cherry flavor.

• 5:01Mike Smith?

  Oh my gosh, you know just what I like. You know how to sell.

• 5:05Wes Larson?

  No, we'll talk about it more, but again, don't wait for it.

• 5:07Jeff Larson?

  I'm excited about it. Cause you said, you said, what? If you make $10 million, me, Mike and Brent, I'll get a million dollars or something.

• 5:17Wes Larson?

  I think I might've said that.

• 5:18Mike Smith?

  Hey, nice.

• 5:19Wes Larson?

  I think I've already promised to wait my first 10 million if I do happen to get rich from this bear spray, which is fine. I don't think, I don't think people should be that rich. Well, 10 millionaires I think is okay, actually. But wow.

• 5:32Mike Smith?

  You're really tightening that belt.

• 5:34Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Wait till he gets to 10 million and see what he says.

• 5:38Wes Larson?

  Just gonna hold on to it.

• 5:39Jeff Larson?

  He'll be like, actually 30 millionaires are fine too.

• 5:43Wes Larson?

  You guys would get, you guys would get some money for sure. A million, why not?

• 5:48Mike Smith?

  I actually, I don't like money at all. I'm even, I'm a better person than you because of how little I like money.

• 5:54Wes Larson?

  I don't, it's not that I dislike money. I don't think people should hoard money.

• 6:00Mike Smith?

  See.

• 6:01Wes Larson?

  When so many people need it. All right, I got a question for you guys to start off this episode. What does the name Doogie Dowler make you think of?

• 6:09Mike Smith?

  Doogie Howser, right?

• 6:11Wes Larson?

  Correct.

• 6:12Jeff Larson?

  I thought of it as a go kart.

• 6:14Wes Larson?

  I like that too. It's also a great answer.

• 6:17Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 6:18Wes Larson?

  Doogie Howser.

• 6:19Mike Smith?

  The Dougie?

• 6:21Wes Larson?

  The Dougie.

• 6:21Mike Smith?

  Who's the country, who's the country singer that doesn't know how to do the Dougie?

• 6:30Mike Smith?

  Do you remember that song?

• 6:31Wes Larson?

  I don't do the dougie. I don't do the dougie. I just fish and wear my boots. That's all he does. Doogie Howser.

• 6:38Jeff Larson?

  Wes watched the Turning Point halftime.

• 6:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I just wanna fish and camp and wear my boots and mama grass. All right. So when I was a kid, there's a show on TV called Doogie Howser and it makes me feel a little old that probably a lot of you don't know who this is or what this was.

• 6:56Jeff Larson?

  I actually don't know who it is.

• 6:58Wes Larson?

  It's it's Neil Patrick Harris's first role and he was as a child actor. He acted as this doctor who's 14 years old and is like the best doctor in the world. He's a child prodigy, graduated medical school when he was 10, became a full fledged doctor at 14. And it was a weekly show of like his kind of challenges being a child doctor. Great show.

• 7:23Mike Smith?

  So one of the rare moments where someone is cast as a 14 year old and they're like, they look like they are 14 years old.

• 7:31Wes Larson?

  It's a, he looks like a child. He looks younger than 14 when you look at photos of this. Anyway, that's what I thought of. Has nothing to do with this episode, aside from the name Doogie Dowler is in the episode.

• 7:42Mike Smith?

  Thanks for taking us down that road.

• 7:45Wes Larson?

  I have some sources. I have some sources here. One of my main sources was actually another podcast called Storytime with Seth Rogen.

• 7:55Wes Larson?

  If you probably know that name, Seth Rogen. He did this.

• 8:01Wes Larson?

  He did this story.

• 8:04Wes Larson?

  That's pretty much it.

• 8:07Wes Larson?

  The episode is called The Ballad of Mount Doogie Dowler. Outside Magazine did an article on this. Reader's Digest did a story on this. Those are all sources that I used in prepping this episode. Okay.

• 8:21Jeff Larson?

  Don't listen to him. Listen to us.

• 8:23Wes Larson?

  Doogie, it is. It's a great episode. It's really good. I do recommend it. Doogie Dowler, though, is in a show about a teenage wonder kid doctor that finished medical school and he's ten. It's a mountain in coastal British Columbia, near Campbell River, and really near the top end of Vancouver Island. It's also named after someone who's pretty cool. So nearby, there's a little island called Quadra Island, and on that island, there's a Yeah.

• 8:50Mike Smith?

  Sorry to interrupt. I really am. But so is Doogie Dowler all one word, or is it two different?

• 8:56Wes Larson?

  Words. It's a first and last name.

• 8:58Mike Smith?

  The mountain has a first and a last name? For a mountain?

• 9:01Wes Larson?

  It sure does, Mike.

• 9:03Mike Smith?

  What's Everest's last name? Or is that its last name?

• 9:07Wes Larson?

  Ev.

• 9:07Mike Smith?

  Mark?

• 9:08Wes Larson?

  Rest?

• 9:08Mike Smith?

  Uh, Eve.

• 9:10Wes Larson?

  Alright.

• 9:11Mike Smith?

  Interesting. K two, I guess, is two names. Wow.

• 9:14Wes Larson?

  Yeah, K two. Nearby Quadra Island has this little community on it, though, and in 1956, Doogie Dowler moved to the island, and he started to run a small grocery store and a post office with his family. The store became something of a community meeting point, and stores like that, little grocery stores, are really the lifeblood of these tiny rural communities. And Doogie became really well-known, well-liked, and well-respected around town, which is a triple threat, you know? If you can have those three things, you're sitting pretty in a town like Quadra Island.

• 9:50Jeff Larson?

  Uh, he did a lot of It's kind of hard just to have like one of those.

• 9:54Wes Larson?

  Yeah, well-liked but not well-respected.

• 9:58Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I think that there's a lot of people like that. Uh, he did, well, not a lot, but some. He did a lot of other stuff for this community, though, and he'd become a really important fixture around Quadra Island. This is both from, like, you know, running the store, being the postmaster, all of that. And a cool thing about Doogie is from the front of his store and from his house, there was a great view of this really prominent mountain that had two peaks that kind of looked like the rise and then the folds on the top of a cowboy hat. And it wasn't officially named. Everyone just called it Cowboy Hat Mountain. So when Doogie died in the early eight or 1980s, some of the other prominent community members decided to name that mountain Doogie Dowler.

• 10:42Wes Larson?

  And I'm sure it had an indigenous name that they kind of just steamrolled over. But uh, I don't really understand how you do that. How you just say like, hey, let's just name this mountain after this guy that just died. But they went ahead and did it. And they went through the right channels, I think, because if you look up this mountain on like Google Maps, it comes up. Mount Doogie Dowler. I don't think it was just like a nickname. It's pretty cool for him. It is cool. It's a great name for a mountain too, in my opinion. His kids in his grand- Sold on it yet. You don't like- He's confused by the two names. Mount Doogie does sound pretty good. I kinda like Mount Doogie Dowler though.

• 11:19Mike Smith?

  I do. I'm coming around. You know what? I'm sold. I'm back in, boys.

• 11:23Wes Larson?

  All right. Doogie Dowler's back on the menu. So Doogie's kids and his grandkids grow up on Quadra Island as well. And one of those grandkids was Colin Dowler. And Colin really seemed to love growing up in a place like Quadra Island. He's incredibly outdoorsy. He's fascinated by the natural world and wildlife and pushing his body. And even like the TV they had in their house had a really flimsy antenna and was always malfunctioning. So he hardly ever watched TV and just really spent his entire childhood outdoors. He's also a short king. I could only find articles that said he's shorter than 5'8", which is a real short guy way to tell someone your height.

• 12:05Wes Larson?

  Like when you start just using a benchmark that you're a shorter than that, you're probably like 5'5", 5'6". I'm 5'8". I think I'm right on the, I'm right on the like crux of what you could call me short. I would say I'm short.

• 12:20Mike Smith?

  I don't really ever, I never thought of you as like a short person.

• 12:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 12:24Mike Smith?

  Never, never did. I think like, wow, notably short.

• 12:27Wes Larson?

  Growing up, but yeah, I don't feel that way. Anyway, he only weighed about 125 pounds as well. So this is like, he's a pretty small dude, but everyone just talks about how tough and scrappy and just kind of wild he was too. So you kinda got that, that mental language. Kinda like Sméagol. Kinda like Sméagol. Yeah, I think he's very similar. Um, this story takes place when he's about to turn forty five. And at this point, Colin- Smiggle's a pretty, he's a pretty good short king, right? He's a short king, for sure. We're gonna have our favorite short king category, but I think Smiggle's a great entry into that. Spoiler, my answer is Smiggle. Yeah. Um, what was he again? He's like, he's a halfling, but was he a hobbit?

• 13:12Jeff Larson?

  I thought he's a hobbit, but it's like some different group of hobbits or something.

• 13:16Wes Larson?

  I think that's what it is. So at this point, Colin had married, he had a kid, he'd moved to a bigger town on Vancouver Island, Campbell River. But he still thought about Mount Doogie Dowler all the time. And part of the reason was because it was named after his grandpa. And part of the reason was because no one had ever actually summited Mount Doogie Dowler. And Colin and his brother Paul, yeah, they wanted to be the first. And it's a pretty imposing mountain. I get why no one summoned it. It almost always has snow on it. It's very steep. They had tried in their twenties, but they had to turn back because of bad weather. And someone else had tried when Colin was young and they fell eight hundred feet to their death. Holy moly.

• 13:57Wes Larson?

  If you've ever been to, to British Columbia, coastal British Columbia, there are so many mountain peaks. And so many of them are wild. Like there's no infrastructure, no trails, just thick, thick brush. Unbelievably thick and thorny brush to get through and then really treacherous rocky slopes to get up to the top. But in twenty nineteen, Colin and his brother decided they would start making plans to summit the mountain. In July of that year, just a few days before Colin's forty fifth birthday. He told his wife he was going to take some time off work and do a short reconnaissance trip to Mount Doogie Dowler. And try and find the right route for when he and his brother would climb the mountain.

• 14:40Wes Larson?

  It would require a boat ride, a kayak ride, a bike ride, and then a long hike and some night camping alone. The bike ride would be on one logging road that like ran eight miles up the mountain, but that was it.

• 14:52Jeff Larson?

  How'd they bring a bike on their kayaks? They strap it on?

• 14:55Wes Larson?

  Just like strap it to it. And it's just Colin doing this. Uh, he just kind of had some free time and decided he would do it on his own.

• 15:02Mike Smith?

  And his wife had a

• 15:03Wes Larson?

  Tiny bike.

• 15:04Mike Smith?

  Cause he's a, he's a little guy.

• 15:06Wes Larson?

  One of those little, one of those little classic.

• 15:08Mike Smith?

  Clown, clown bike.

• 15:11Mike Smith?

  I think it'd be easy to get one of those onto a kayak, kayak.

• 15:16Wes Larson?

  But does he have a tiny kayak too? You know, like that's the thing.

• 15:19Mike Smith?

  Oh shoot. Oh my gosh. Everything's scaled down.

• 15:25Wes Larson?

  This bear's gonna eat him in one bite. All right.

• 15:28Jeff Larson?

  Bear?

• 15:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I mean, I already spoiled that. All right. His wife had a really bad feeling about this trip and she told Colin not to go. And when they're talking about it, he even said, I never really read any statistics that say you are more likely to be attacked by a grizzly by yourself than with other people, right? And his wife said, yeah, I guess I haven't either. Now, if any of our listeners ever say that, I'm gonna come to your house and I'm gonna pinch ya. I'm gonna pinch you hard. Because is that true, Jeff?

• 15:58Jeff Larson?

  That he hasn't read those statistics?

• 16:02Wes Larson?

  Do those statistics exist? Does it say that you're not more likely to be attacked by yourself?

• 16:08Jeff Larson?

  You are, there is a lot of statistics out there that say if you're by yourself, you're going to get attacked.

• 16:16Wes Larson?

  You're not going to be, but you are much more likely to be attacked. It is one of the biggest factors uh, in grizzly bear attacks. And I'm gonna kind of do things different this episode where there's not gonna be a break to go over like biology. But as we go through the story, I'm gonna remind people about some of the bear safety stuff you've learned over the years with tooth and claw. And that's the first reminder that groups of people are much less likely to be attacked by a grizzly bear, especially groups of three or more. If you are by yourself, you are taking a much bigger risk than you would be with even just one other person with you.

• 16:53Jeff Larson?

  But who even made up those statistics?

• 16:56Wes Larson?

  Uh, bear biologists that have worked closely with these attacks and that have learned a lot of good insights from them.

• 17:03Mike Smith?

  What if it's three kids in a trench coat all stacked up on each other's shoulders?

• 17:08Wes Larson?

  Uh, I don't think that would be effective, but I think it would maybe be confusing for a minute for the bear.

• 17:15Jeff Larson?

  That's all you need is a minute. Worse, right? Than three kids?

• 17:18Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I think that's worse than just having three kids that are like a unified.

• 17:22Jeff Larson?

  Giant?

• 17:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I don't know.

• 17:24Mike Smith?

  I'm just saying, people do that.

• 17:26Wes Larson?

  It's a good question. I don't think we have any data points for that.

• 17:29Mike Smith?

  Like if you're going to an R rated movie and you're a child.

• 17:32Wes Larson?

  And you get attacked by a grizzly bear on the way.

• 17:35Jeff Larson?

  Trust these scientists and their statistics is they haven't tried that.

• 17:40Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 17:42Mike Smith?

  What if it was three regular sized adults on each other's shoulders in a really long trench coat?

• 17:47Wes Larson?

  I do think that would be intimidating to a bear. I think it would kind of be like, what am I dealing with here?

• 17:53Mike Smith?

  Yeah, there's plenty of studies for all you kids out there who are aspiring to be bear biologists and think there's not a lot of work to be done.

• 18:01Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 18:02Mike Smith?

  Just think outside the box.

• 18:03Jeff Larson?

  Colin would need like four.

• 18:06Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 18:07Mike Smith?

  Colin.

• 18:09Mike Smith?

  And a regular sized coat for all three of them.

• 18:14Wes Larson?

  Alright.

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• 19:45Jeff Larson?

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• 21:11Wes Larson?

  All right. So he decided to go even with his wife's misgivings. And as he left the house, he said something akin to what he always said, which was, if I'm not back by eight o'clock Sunday night, you can start worrying about me. So he would always give her like a time and a day where she could start worrying.

• 21:31Wes Larson?

  Colin had put this trip together pretty quickly and he wanted to travel lightly. So he brought a little bivvy instead of a tent. He brought minimal food, his backpack and a bike. He had planned a run by his dad's house to grab a can of bear spray right before getting on the boat that would take him to the right bay on the mainland. But he didn't have time and he decided he really didn't need bear spray because he had seen countless black bears on his excursions and only a couple grizzlies. So he wasn't really worried.

• 22:00Jeff Larson?

  That's bad reasoning.

• 22:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I've seen tons of bears, but I don't need bear spray.

• 22:07Mike Smith?

  But for a guy like him, he sounds like he's tough and he's scrappy. Like against a black bear, I'm taking Colin.

• 22:13Wes Larson?

  He knows bears pretty well too, and he knows that the chances of being attacked by a black bear are really slim. But what he might not have known is that mainland British Columbia, just, you know, right across the strait from where he lived on Quadr Island was really great grizzly bear habitat. So even though Vancouver Island isn't and Quadr Island probably only had black bears, just across the strait, there are prime grizzly bear spots. So prime, in fact, that the grizzly bear viewing industry is doing really well in this area. It's not a spot I would want to be traveling and bushwhacking alone without bear spray. There are definitely a lot of grizzly bears around.

• 22:52Jeff Larson?

  For him to just, I feel like when you are in nature that much, when you're outdoors that much and you like, he's encountered a lot of bears. He's gotten a little too comfortable type of thing, you know? It's like, sure. It's like, yeah, I've been close to bears before. They don't bother me. I don't bother them type of thing, you know?

• 23:13Wes Larson?

  Exactly.

• 23:13Mike Smith?

  I can relate.

• 23:14Wes Larson?

  I mean, even us, like, there's been plenty of times where I've gone fishing and I realized as I'm on the way that I'm entering grizzly bear habitat and that I forgot bear spray. And sometimes I just go for it, you know, and like. That's not right, but it does happen. So I do understand how this happened to him. Um, but I will say if I was like bushwhacking up a mountain and camping by myself, I would feel very, very uncomfortable without bear spray or without.

• 23:43Mike Smith?

  I only ever bushwhack by myself. I don't like to do it in the company of others.

• 23:47Wes Larson?

  And you always have your bear spray.

• 23:49Mike Smith?

  Yeah, right. Just in case my mom bursts in the room, gotta deter her.

• 23:54Wes Larson?

  Ghost?

• 23:55Mike Smith?

  Oh, my gosh. She's always watching me.

• 23:57Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you're gonna need a proton pack for that, not bear spray.

• 24:02Jeff Larson?

  You think she's in there watching you?

• 24:04Mike Smith?

  Yeah, of course.

• 24:05Jeff Larson?

  She did die in the house you're in, right?

• 24:07Mike Smith?

  She did. Yeah, she's in the walls.

• 24:09Jeff Larson?

  So it could be like she got stuck in there type of situation.

• 24:13Wes Larson?

  All right. So Colin takes his little boat to this bay where he's getting to the beginning of this logging road. And he's actually completely astounded because he runs into other people there. And he really shouldn't be because this is out in the middle of nowhere. But specifically, he runs into a cook that is from a logging camp and they chat a bit.

• 24:32Jeff Larson?

  Really interesting.

• 24:33Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's like if you were to go, you know, way up into the Bob Marshall wilderness. And as you're starting your hike, there's a camp, you know, where you didn't think you would ever see anyone.

• 24:43Jeff Larson?

  Kinda. This seems more extreme than that.

• 24:46Wes Larson?

  Yeah, this is even more so. But they chat, he tells him what he's doing, and this cook actually asks him if he needs anything. And Colin says, yeah, I actually need some bear spray. And the cook brings him a brand new bottle and Colin stuffs, yeah, he stuffs this bear spray into his pocket. So let's talk for a second about where you should carry your bear spray. What do you guys think?

• 25:11Mike Smith?

  Your bear spray holster.

• 25:12Jeff Larson?

  On your belt. Yeah, but then sometimes I don't wear a belt.

• 25:17Wes Larson?

  So really what you want it, what you want is to carry it in the same spot every time you go. And it needs to be somewhere where you can quickly grab it and somewhere it's secure. Those are the three things. So for me, I really like having it. On my belt, on my right hip, that's just where it's always at. It's where I carried it when I was in Yellowstone every single day. And I just have that muscle memory of that's where I would go. If you have a chest holster, that's fine. If it's on your left hip, that's fine. It can be in your pocket, but as we're going to learn, that's not always the best place for it. Can get caught as you're pulling it out, or it's maybe easier to lose. So the main thing though is you don't want it in your backpack or somewhere where you can access it really quickly.

• 26:02Wes Larson?

  So the things to remember is always in the same spot. So you have muscle memory and then somewhere where you can quickly get it. Okay, this cook actually offers him a ride up this gravel road, which is like eight miles. So saves him a lot of time. He gladly accepts it. Eight mile. Yeah, I think that's where they're probably in Detroit, right? Did they have a, they have a rat battle? Yeah, they had a rat battle before they left. With the bear, yeah. Uh, he doesn't need his bike to get up there. Wait, so the cook drove there? The cook, yeah. So they, they, no, they take a boat to this logging road with like their truck and everything on it. And then they had an eight mile logging road that just goes up into the mountain, just one road.

• 26:43Wes Larson?

  And it was to take their crews up to the top so they could log and then bring them back down. And then they would send logs out on boats and barges and stuff. Gotcha. So he takes Colin up to this top of the road. Colin stashes his bike in the bushes right there. And this cook grabs his camera to take a picture of Colin and he says, to put on the milk cartons in case you don't return. Which is, you know, kind of a bit of a, yeah, I don't know what the word is. Foreshadowing? Foreshadowing, yeah. Harbinger of doom? A harbinger, a bit of a harbinger of doom. Yes, a bit of a foreshadow. That's what I would call that guy. All right. So Colin starts hiking up through this really thick brush and almost immediately is noticing a lot of bear sign.

• 27:26Wes Larson?

  And is stepping over a lot of fresh piles of bear scat. He's making plenty of noise. He's yelling out. He's continuing to make his continuing to make his way through the forest and uphill. But it's really slow going and the brush was so thick, he couldn't even see his feet. So he has to take a number of breaks to rest and get his bearings.

• 27:46Mike Smith?

  When you see fresh bear scat on a trail you're on, what's your, what's your advice at that point? You just turn around, go home or?

• 27:53Wes Larson?

  No.

• 27:54Mike Smith?

  Veer off in another direction or what?

• 27:55Wes Larson?

  My advice would be you increase your alertness. You maybe take your safety off your bear spray. You just become a little bit more alert or maybe carry it in your hand from there. It depends on how fresh, like if it's steaming, you know, if I know a bear was just there, then I have it in my hand and I'm ready to go. But if it's like, looks like it's maybe a few hours old, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna be aware then that there's a bear in the area and that I have to be even more alert than before.

• 28:23Mike Smith?

  If you, if you see the bear going to the bathroom actively, do you what? Turn around and give him the privacy or do you keep your eyes on it? Just to make sure you're safe, you know?

• 28:33Wes Larson?

  I, I keep my eyes on that, Mike, you know? That's just, then you can answer that question, that age old question. Does a bear shit in the woods? You finally have your answer.

• 28:43Mike Smith?

  You wanna be a eyewitness.

• 28:44Wes Larson?

  So during one of these breaks, while Colin is sitting on a fallen log and looking at his GPS, his bear spray slips out of his pocket and he doesn't notice. Oh, that's not good. That's not good. Colin hikes a good way before he realizes he lost his bear spray and he doesn't want to go back down and look for it, but thinks he'll probably find it on his way back down the mountain. So he hikes until around 5:00 PM and as he's starting to get into the sub alpine country, he stops, makes his camp and goes to sleep. You guys think this is gonna be a campsite attack or is he gonna make it through the night without any problems? Campsite attack.

• 29:22Mike Smith?

  I'll go, he makes it too safe.

• 29:25Wes Larson?

  He makes it through safe, gets through the night with no issues.

• 29:29Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 29:29Wes Larson?

  Owned you Jeff, I won. Yeah. I'm a winner. I owe you a hundred dollars. That was for a hundred dollars. I forgot to say that at the beginning, but that was a hundred dollar bet. In the morning, he breaks his camp down and starts heading down the mountain, careful to look for his bear spray along the way. He continues to see a lot of bear sign and a lot of berry bushes that had obvious signs of bear foraging, but still no bears and no bear spray. And by around 11 a.m., he'd made it back down to the top of the gravel road where he'd stashed his bike. And he gets a little euphoric getting onto his bike. The hard part of the trip was over. He scouted out this route, potential route to climb the mountain.

• 30:09Wes Larson?

  And he's cruising pretty fast down the road, thinking about his birthday tomorrow, about hanging out with his wife and his kid, about having a few beers. And as all of these thoughts are passing through his head, a grizzly bear walks out onto the road about 80 feet in front of Colin. Wow. Now, this may seem kind of ironic to people that Colin spent all of this time in thick brush in great forest and never saw a bear. But then as soon as he got onto this logging road, he ran into one. But this actually makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, I would say the milk carton line was more ironic. Yeah, that is maybe, isn't it ironic? Yeah, rain on your wedding day.

• 30:52Wes Larson?

  Bears and wildlife often use roads, especially roads that don't have hardly any human traffic like this one. Like this road sees hardly anyone on it. Because they offer a really effective obstacle-free way for them to move through their habitat. So like in Yellowstone, there's places where there's power lines running through the park and there'll be a clear cut around these power lines so that the power company can access them. And it was actually a place we would always look for bears because bears would walk that clear cut. Cause it's just like a really easy way for them to move through their habitat. And it's also like usually pretty good food in those spots. It's productive habitat where there's good berry bushes, roots, grasses, and a lot of other food sources.

• 31:36Wes Larson?

  So that's one good thing about deforestation.

• 31:41Jeff Larson?

  For it's good for bears.

• 31:43Wes Larson?

  Grizzly bears do really well in disturbed habitat. They do. Like you still need some forest, but they really like the edges of forest because it creates this really good productive habitat for them. Um, Jeff, I know you were joking there, but in a way there have been some studies that show that these places that have like pocket deforestation. So it's still like a wild ecosystem, but there's little pockets where they've deforested that bears do really well and they use those, those areas because the stuff that grows up after you take out some of those trees is often food. So.

• 32:19Jeff Larson?

  Well, and like, it makes sense because they weren't necessarily mountain animals until we made them that, right? They used to be more in the plains and more in open spaces when they could.

• 32:31Wes Larson?

  Yeah. And they really like, like foraging, digging for roots, digging for, you know, grass and forbs, all these different things that they can find on the ground. And those things often sprout up in places that have lost their primary cover.

• 32:46Mike Smith?

  Do you ever think of bears?

• 32:48Jeff Larson?

  Go ahead.

• 32:48Mike Smith?

  I was gonna make a real stupid joke and now it's over.

• 32:52Jeff Larson?

  We said it at the exact same time and then I let you go.

• 32:55Mike Smith?

  I, I was glad to bail because it was gonna be real stupid. So it's all you.

• 33:00Jeff Larson?

  I was gonna say, what if they found hidden treasure?

• 33:05Mike Smith?

  Oh my God, are you serious right now? That's exactly what my joke was gonna be.

• 33:11Mike Smith?

  Oh.

• 33:13Jeff Larson?

  I tried to let you say.

• 33:14Wes Larson?

  It's fine. I'm trying to figure out how that thought popped into both of your heads and it's not really making a lot of sense to me.

• 33:22Jeff Larson?

  I feel like if I dug as much as a grizzly bear digs, I would find treasure.

• 33:26Wes Larson?

  Eventually.

• 33:27Jeff Larson?

  But then like, if I'm a grizzly bear, I probably wouldn't understand the value.

• 33:32Wes Larson?

  Right. I think that's probably even very true. All right. All of this just, all of this is to say, an old logging road is actually pretty great habitat for a grizzly bear.

• 33:43Jeff Larson?

  Like to a grizzly bear, it's valueless.

• 33:46Wes Larson?

  You're right.

• 33:48Mike Smith?

  No, we gotta stay, we stay on this for a minute because what, what? Who does that belong to? It's the bears by right, I would say.

• 33:55Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. In the count of Monte Cristo, where he finds all that treasure, he becomes the richest man in the world. He gets his revenge. If that was a bear, the bear would be like, this isn't food.

• 34:08Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 34:08Mike Smith?

  If only the bears understood the basics of.

• 34:13Wes Larson?

  Economy, money.

• 34:14Jeff Larson?

  Of using treasure.

• 34:16Mike Smith?

  They could exchange treasure for goods and services. They could buy all the berries they wanted.

• 34:23Wes Larson?

  Call when you're done with this and I'll be ready to keep going.

• 34:26Mike Smith?

  Man, dude, we taught bears to ride unicycles. We could teach one to like, give a cashier a coin for a blueberries.

• 34:34Jeff Larson?

  Oh, that's a good transition, actually.

• 34:37Wes Larson?

  For a blueberries?

• 34:38Jeff Larson?

  Because he's on his bike and the bear's looking at him right now.

• 34:42Mike Smith?

  I didn't finish my sentence, Wes. I meant, I'm blueberries.

• 34:44Wes Larson?

  I know I said I was gonna let this run its course, but I am going to cut it off. Uh, an old logging road is great habitat for a grizzly bear. I would expect to see one more on this road than I would bushwhacking in dense forests. This is the kind of place you would see them. And Colin pretty much immediately knows that this is a grizzly bear because he had seen so many black bears. This bear looked bigger, different with a more rounded, flat face and a pronounced hump. Also, black bears in this area are almost always black and this was a brown colored bear. And I wanted to take a second about bear ID because something I've been thinking about a lot lately is how many bear professionals, myself included, tell people color isn't, you know, you shouldn't use color, you shouldn't do that.

• 35:29Wes Larson?

  And I don't think that's necessarily true. I do think color is your first really good clue about what bear you might be looking at. And sometimes it is enough. Like if you see a jet black bear, it's almost certainly going to be a black bear if you're in North America. If you see a bear that's like brown with really light blonde colored tips, there's a very good chance that it's a grizzly bear if you're in grizzly bear country. If you see one that's like cinnamon colored, it's probably a black bear. So there are, that's your first really good clue.

• 36:04Jeff Larson?

  If you see a white bear, it's probably a polar bear. It could be a black bear, though.

• 36:10Wes Larson?

  Depends, or it could be a grizzly. There's been white grizzlies, too.

• 36:15Wes Larson?

  Yeah, spirit bears, though, are like, yeah, much more common than a white grizzly, for sure.

• 36:19Mike Smith?

  It could be a panda if you only see like a very small portion of it through the bushes.

• 36:24Wes Larson?

  Yeah, maybe you're colorblind and you can't see black.

• 36:28Mike Smith?

  Or maybe you're all blind.

• 36:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's true. Then it could be anything.

• 36:32Mike Smith?

  Can't see anything.

• 36:33Wes Larson?

  Might be a car. Get out of the way.

• 36:35Mike Smith?

  Oh, gosh.

• 36:36Wes Larson?

  So, this is a relatively large grizzly bear and Colin immediately yells, "Hey, bear," to let it know that he was there. But instead of running away, the bear just turned and looked at him, then looked back at the brush where it had just come from, and then looked back at Colin. Colin mentally was pleading with this bear to just go back into the brush and leave him alone. And then it turned and started walking straight toward him.

• 37:01Jeff Larson?

  Wow, it's interesting. This is our first real story where someone's on a bike.

• 37:08Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's why I wanted to pick this one, actually. It's kind of an interesting scenario, and we're going to talk about that a bit. He's in a bit of a pickle because he knows that he has to try and discourage this bear from approaching him. So he swings his backpack onto his front, he grabs his hiking poles, and he extends them and starts knocking them together and banging them on his bicycle and yelling. But this bear keeps coming, and it's kind of swinging its head and huffing while it walks towards Colin. When this bear's about 30 feet away, he starts getting nervous, and he didn't want to be on his bike like straddling it because he felt like he had a limited range of movement.

• 37:47Wes Larson?

  So he hops off the bike, and that movement actually makes the bear do a tiny little bluff charge and scrape its claws on the gravel. And then it stops for a second, but then keeps coming when Colin stands there frozen in place, holding his bike.

• 38:04Wes Larson?

  Then this bear walks to where it was just a few feet from Colin and his bike. And then as he stands there totally still, it slowly walks by him and the bike, close enough that he could reach out and touch it. Wow. Which he doesn't do, but he could have. He can't believe what's happening and he kind of feels like this grizzly bear is just gonna pass him a few feet away and then he's just gonna have a hell of a story to tell when he gets home that no one's gonna believe. And as this bear is, as its butt is just inches from passing the end of his bike, it flips 180 degrees around and comes at Colin. And he has just enough time to get one of his poles in between him and the bear

• 38:45Wes Larson?

  and push at the bear's forehead with it. And this, so he kind of like puts this hiking pole right against the bear's forehead and then pushes. And it kind of seems to work. Like this bear hasn't fully launched a charge yet. It's more just still investigating him. So he's keeping pressure on it and kind of keeping it away from him. And it's working a little bit. And then suddenly the bear just rolls its head, snaps into this pole and breaks it and kind of pulls it away from him a bit. So it's broken in the middle and they're kind of doing this tug of war thing with it. And Colin says out loud, oh, come on now. We don't need to do this. I'm your friend.

• 39:23Jeff Larson?

  This is so interesting. A bear that's like 10% like, ah, might attack you.

• 39:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 39:31Jeff Larson?

  I'm sure it gets elevated even more, but just like at the start, it just feels like the bear is kind of winging it, you know?

• 39:39Wes Larson?

  I think you're right. I think this bear is investigating him as food. I really do. I think it is thinking, I'm gonna check this out. This might be food and it's still a little nervous and not totally sure what it should do at this point.

• 39:53Mike Smith?

  So is this hiking pole scenario, I know we've talked about with like sharks and stuff. They always teach you to put something between you and the predator, the animal that's, you know, posing a threat. Is that a thing for bears at all? If you have like a sword, if you had or some kind of like a spear or something? Is that gonna deter them or are they just gonna like not really understand what that would signify?

• 40:18Wes Larson?

  It's last resort is what I would say. Like,

• 40:21Mike Smith?

  Sure.

• 40:21Wes Larson?

  if you are completely out of options and this bear is not leaving, sure. But I also think you run a pretty big risk of just antagonizing it by, by touching it with anything. That's the same with sharks. Like if you actually make contact with the shark, it might actually charge in and bite you because you're antagonizing it.

• 40:40Jeff Larson?

  Hmm. What about in like 1700s, Japan?

• 40:44Jeff Larson?

  A samurai where there's grizzly bears.

• 40:47Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I think it should, the samurai should probably try and use his sword. That's all he has. Yeah.

• 40:52Jeff Larson?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 40:53Mike Smith?

  We should have asked them samurai while we were there if they did that.

• 40:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah. You should have.

• 40:59Mike Smith?

  Shoot, okay, next time.

• 41:01Wes Larson?

  So the bear drops the pole and moves toward Colin again, and Colin decides that he's gonna have to get a little bit more aggressive to deter this bear. So he throws his backpack on the ground near the bear. There's some food in this backpack still, so he's hoping that it might go for the pack. And when that doesn't work, he picks up his bike, which is tiny, so you know, I'm sure he can pick it up really easily. And he throws it at the bear. Uh, and that actually kind of is enough for this bear. It decides it's gonna go ahead and attack. So it clears the bike in a single lunge. It bites into Colin's side between his hips and his ribs and lifts him off the ground.

• 41:42Wes Larson?

  Kinda like if Mike bit into a big hot dog sideways. That's kinda what this would look like.

• 41:49Mike Smith?

  Not the best strategy for speed, but I'm gonna try that.

• 41:53Jeff Larson?

  You know, there's a funny little blip on social media was that like one day where someone dressed up as Justin Bieber? And ate a burrito sideways? And everyone was like, Justin Bieber doesn't know how to eat a burrito.

• 42:12Wes Larson?

  That's so funny that that's what you decided to do, but that is, I mean, it worked. It was perfect. I didn't realize that was a fake Justin Bieber. I still thought that was Justin Bieber.

• 42:21Jeff Larson?

  Some guy dressed up as him and made it look like he could eat a burrito.

• 42:27Wes Larson?

  Yeah, so picture that. That's what this bear's doing to Colin.

• 42:30Mike Smith?

  Ouch.

• 42:31Wes Larson?

  He's being actually carried in this bear's jaws toward the brush. He says he thinks his foot may have been dragging, but aside from that, this bear has him totally in the air. It's carrying him in its jaws, yeah, toward the brush. And he said that he had this thought that if the bear took him off of the road and into the brush, he would probably die. So as they're making it toward the brush, the bear sets him down on the side of the road, kind of in this little ditch and bites into him again, sinking its teeth deeper into both his back and his abdomen. And then it starts moving him toward the brush once again. And I do again, think now that this is a predatory attack. I think this bear is trying to get him to a spot where it can dispatch him and eat him that isn't so open.

• 43:17Wes Larson?

  So Colin decides he's gonna have to fight back, which is appropriate in this circumstance. You do wanna fight back. He starts trying to gouge the eyes out of this bear. He pulls on the hair on its face. He's doing everything he can to try and annoy this bear, and it does kind of work. It drops him and then it moves down to his leg where it can kind of chew on him and bite him without him being able to reach it as well. And it starts biting into his leg repeatedly. And at this point, I think it's kind of antagonized because it's doing these aggressive bites that are leaving puncture wounds, but it's not necessarily at this point stripping away big pieces of flesh like it's eating. It's just, you know, doing these really aggressive bites.

• 44:01Wes Larson?

  And it would bite one leg mostly every once in a while would bite the other one, but it's mostly focused on one of his legs. And Colin decides what he's gonna do now is reach down, put his hands in the bear's mouth. This feels like a very Jeff-coded thing to do to this bear.

• 44:17Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. It's good.

• 44:20Wes Larson?

  And try and peel its mouth off of his leg. So he shoves his fingers into its gums and tries to peel it back with all of his strength. And the bear bites into his hand, right into the ball of his thumb, and then goes back to chewing on his leg. So in this case, Jeff, it wasn't a very effective strategy.

• 44:37Jeff Larson?

  I will say, just for anyone who tries that, I would recommend having bear spray and sticking your hand down its mouth with the bear spray.

• 44:49Wes Larson?

  Just firing it halfway down its throat.

• 44:51Jeff Larson?

  Like we always say, you should have bear spray before you do that.

• 44:56Wes Larson?

  You should have bear spray, yeah. And we will talk about kind of what went wrong and right in this.

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• 46:02Mike Smith?

  This episode of Tooth and Claws brought to you by Grazza. So I've recently been in a little bit of an unspoken competition with Wes. I don't think he even knows what's going on. But we both started cooking for ourselves a lot recently. And one thing that I've noticed is that basically every recipe that's even remotely tempting to me always calls for olive oil. And Grazza olive oil has quickly become my olive oil of choice. It's delicious, easy to use, extra virgin olive oil at an affordable, everyday price. It tastes super fresh, so natural. I've always been afraid of using oil in my cooking. There's just a certain stigma. I grew up, I don't know if it was the same for all of you, but I always equated oil with unhealthy, not Grazza olive oil. It tastes healthy because it is healthy. And healthy eating is something I've prioritized a lot lately.

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• 47:23Wes Larson?

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• 48:07Wes Larson?

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• 48:50Wes Larson?

  Find out why Nutraful is the best-selling hair growth supplement brand at nutrafol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code TOOTH. That's nutrafol.com promo code TOOTH. All right, so Colin can actually hear the teeth of the bear grating against his bone in his leg. He said it was like the sound of a dog chewing on a, like, a big bone, which does sound like you can really hear that when they're chewing on bones.

• 49:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 49:19Wes Larson?

  And he started yelling, "Stop!" and "Why?" to this bear. He wasn't yelling for help because he didn't think anyone would be in the area, but he was yelling, "Stop!" and "Why?" And he's starting to think about his family and feeling remorse because he thought he was gonna die out there and abandon his family. And he's also thinking about his death and how they're just gonna find his rotting corpse in the brush. And then as he's thinking about all this and things are getting pretty dark, he remembers his pocket knife. It was a buck knife that his dad had picked up at Canadian Tire for eighty percent off. Have you guys ever been to a Canadian Tire? It's kind of like the Canadian version of Walmart, but a little bit weirder.

• 50:03Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's just like a, like a huge, I know, because you see it and you think tires, like this is an automotive store. No, they, they sell like everything there, but they also sell tires, I believe. You would hope so. But his dad hardly ever gave him gifts just out of the blue like this, but he had given him this knife recently and he had it in his right hand pocket. And the bear, as it's chewing on him, is essentially laying down on his stomach. So they're like belly to belly. And he had to kind of push his hands through his and the bear's stomach, like that tiny gap, to try and wiggle them into his other side as the bear's like tearing into his legs

• 50:45Wes Larson?

  and now pulling off strips of flesh. But as, you know, the bear's doing that, he manages to get his hands into his pocket, get this knife, open it with both hands, and then with all of his might, he swings it back and stabs it into the bear's neck.

• 51:02Jeff Larson?

  Where would, is that where you would aim if you were in this situation?

• 51:07Wes Larson?

  I was gonna ask that, yeah. I, I think that, like, A, I'm trying my hardest to never get into this situation because, you know, we had our episode not long ago about the hunter that killed one with the broadhead arrow. And now we're talking about this knife. And the reason that these stories have trickled to the top is because they worked. But there are plenty of other people out there that have been attacked by bears that have used weapons to try and stop them where nothing, it just absolutely has no effect. Even guns can sometimes have no effect at this point. So I would probably aim for the neck or the eye or something. But um, I don't know. It would be really hard to pick a target.

• 51:47Mike Smith?

  The hundred twenty seven hours guy would probably just cut his arm off.

• 51:51Wes Larson?

  Yeah, cut his own leg off, let the bear have it.

• 51:53Mike Smith?

  With the knife and then run away. Which is, maybe that would work.

• 52:00Wes Larson?

  So he does this.

• 52:03Wes Larson?

  He, as he stabs this bear in the neck, the bear actually does stop biting. It pulls its head back and rather than stab the bear again, he just waits to see what would happen next. And I think that's smart. His reasoning there was like, it did what I wanted it to do. It stopped biting me. So I'm not going to stab it again because it stopped. And what actually did happen next was a huge gush of blood came out of the bear's neck and splashed onto Colin. And now according to Colin, I'm putting that in big letters. He says, now you're bleeding too, bear.

• 52:38Wes Larson?

  That's a good line. Which is a great line. You think he came up with that on the spot? On the Seth Rogen show, when he said that Seth Rogen said, did you actually say that? And he said, I actually said it and I'm very proud of it. So I think he did. I'm gonna give him credit. I'll give him that. Yeah. The bear pulls away and slowly walks away from Colin, looking at him and then looking back into the brush. And then Colin takes a second to look at his leg. And when he looks back up, the bear's gone.

• 53:08Wes Larson?

  So Colin, at this point, knows he needs to do a little bit of wound management quick. So he tears off his shirt sleeve and he makes a tourniquet to tie around his leg. And when he looks at his leg, he kind of sees these weird folds and bumps and he thinks maybe his pants are bunching up. But what he realizes is that this bear's puncture wounds have brought out a bunch of meat. And he has meat that looks like raw hamburger from his own leg that's laying all over his leg. And that's what he's seeing. And it's funny because this, this isn't funny. That is, yeah. I need to stop saying that.

• 53:44Wes Larson?

  One of my colleagues that I trapped grizzly bears with when we were doing research with grizzly bears, he had actually flown a little too close to the sun once while he was trapping and a bear bit him in the arm and. He didn't really even realize he had been bit because it happened so quick. And he looked at his arm and he he's thought he had a piece of raw chicken on his arm. And what it was was the the muscle and the tissue that the bear had pulled out with its tooth. When it had bit him and he was trying to brush it off and then he realized what it was.

• 54:15Jeff Larson?

  Oh, crazy.

• 54:16Wes Larson?

  All right. So as we've mentioned quite a bit, Colin is a smaller dude. And at this point, he was actually really grateful. Yeah.

• 54:25Mike Smith?

  Cut some of that out.

• 54:26Wes Larson?

  At this point, he's really grateful for that because he's pretty small and he had small legs. And he called them himself like chicken legs. And I know that pain. I got smaller legs myself. But the nice thing about it was that this sleeve that he had torn off would have been too big had he had bigger legs. But it was just big enough that he could get a granny knot in it and tie it over his legs and make a tourniquet.

• 54:51Jeff Larson?

  Oh, that's funny.

• 54:53Wes Larson?

  Yeah. So he's kind of like really happy at this point. That something his wife had always made fun of him for is his skinny legs was actually kind of a life saving thing.

• 55:03Jeff Larson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:04Wes Larson?

  What she called him Wednesday legs because she would say like. When's they gonna break or something? I forget. It was like a funny pun that she.

• 55:16Jeff Larson?

  But if he's bigger, you'd have bigger sleeves too.

• 55:19Wes Larson?

  That's true. You know, it kind of is a but if you got those big old like tree trunk legs like Mike, it doesn't matter how big your sleeve is.

• 55:27Jeff Larson?

  I just cut the waist of the shirt.

• 55:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 55:30Mike Smith?

  I was gonna maybe he did have huge arms.

• 55:32Wes Larson?

  That's true.

• 55:33Mike Smith?

  He could have been.

• 55:34Jeff Larson?

  He was a hundred thirty pounds.

• 55:36Wes Larson?

  Hundred twenty five.

• 55:37Mike Smith?

  Yeah, but if if he's like three feet tall, then that's a big torso. I don't know. He should have just given us his height because now my imagination is running wild.

• 55:46Wes Larson?

  He may have in one of these articles, but they all just said that I read said less than five eight.

• 55:52Jeff Larson?

  What what other great benefits are there to having short legs, Wes?

• 55:57Wes Larson?

  Uh, plane rides are great. You're just comfortable. I've said this before, I think on the podcast, but being short kind of sucks when you're in like high school and maybe like college. After that, it's just great. You just fit everywhere. Nice. You're nice and comfortable all the time. Everything is easier when you're short, I think, besides like maybe grabbing things on high ledges or whatever, playing basketball. Okay, so he decides that he's probably not going to survive waiting for the logging crew. They might take them hours to get up there, even days. So he's worried the bear might come back too. And he starts crawling toward his bike, but the gravel on his kneecaps is really bothering him as he's crawling, which he

• 56:39Wes Larson?

  admits is kind of funny because he's completely ripped to shreds by this bear, but the gravel on his kneecaps is bothering him. And his kneecaps are fine.

• 56:49Jeff Larson?

  That is funny.

• 56:50Wes Larson?

  So he flips over and he uses his better leg to scoot him on his butt back to his bike. But now he has another challenge. Getting on this bike was not easy. So he tries to use his pole to push himself up and onto the bike, but the pole bends and breaks and he crashes back onto the ground. And then he manages to finally climb onto this bike and he starts to pedal and he immediately face plants on the other side of the bike.

• 57:16Jeff Larson?

  No.

• 57:17Wes Larson?

  But he's not going to give up. Again, Colin is really tough.

• 57:21Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 57:21Wes Larson?

  And he crawls back onto this bike. He managed to stabilize himself and start pedaling. And he really only pedals with his good leg and he just uses his mango leg to keep weight on the other pedal. So it's this really lopsided, clunky bike ride, but he's making time. He's getting through it. And during the ride, he can feel his pants and his bike seat getting warm from all the blood that's spilling out of his body. But he just keeps focusing on getting to the three kilometer mark because that's where a big downhill starts and he can coast down to this logging camp. Sorry, this road's eight kilometers, not eight miles. I misspoke earlier.

• 57:57Mike Smith?

  It'd be like Snow in former. He's the rapper probably cuz.

• 58:02Jeff Larson?

  See.

• 58:02Mike Smith?

  Oh, wait, do they use kilometers in Canada? I'm not sure.

• 58:05Wes Larson?

  Uh, they do. Yeah.

• 58:07Mike Smith?

  Hmm. I was just trying to think of a white Canadian rapper.

• 58:09Jeff Larson?

  Even when it was eight miles, I was kinda like, I don't know if it's worth the effort of kayaking your bike out there. Eight kilometers. It's like, what are you bringing a bike just for that eight kilometer road? But it worked out.

• 58:23Wes Larson?

  It seems like it's like such a nice grade on the way back, though, that it was just kind of fun to ride it even.

• 58:29Jeff Larson?

  Hmm.

• 58:29Wes Larson?

  But yeah.

• 58:30Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 58:31Wes Larson?

  Uh, it's a really harrowing bike ride, as you can imagine. He has to focus on every pedal and concentrate on the horizon. And reading about this part, it seems like he had to summon like a pretty unreal amount of determination and courage to make it downhill. But he finally does. And he coast down the hill and he pretty much crashes on the front porch of this logging camp main tent. The men rush out to a really horrific scene. His entire body is covered in puncture wounds and big, long gashes. It looks like Freddy Krueger had dragged his hand down his back. His legs are full of large holes that have all this meat hanging out of them.

• 59:11Wes Larson?

  And his side had a huge chunk missing and you could actually look into his body cavity and get a clear view of his kidney.

• 59:19Jeff Larson?

  No way.

• 59:20Wes Larson?

  Yeah, which was a new experience for all these loggers. They had never seen anything like that before.

• 59:25Mike Smith?

  Holy cow.

• 59:26Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, that's that tracks. It'd be weird if they had.

• 59:31Wes Larson?

  There's like a guy that's like, oh, I've seen this. That's a kidney.

• 59:35Jeff Larson?

  That's nothing.

• 59:39Wes Larson?

  They rush to patch him up with their first aid kits and, uh, while they're also calling rescue services. And they talk about it like it's kind of that scene in Vegas Vacation where Chevy Chase is plugging holes in the dam. And every time he plugs one, another one starts spurting. That's kind of what's happening. Yeah, that's what's happening with his puncture wounds is as they cover one, another one would start bleeding more intensely. And they're kind of playing whack a mole with his, his puncture wounds. Colin calls his wife, but she's at the lake, so he just leaves a message. Or no, he doesn't leave a message because he didn't want to scare her. And then he calls his brother and tells him that if he died, he wanted him to know that he may have killed a grizzly bear with a pocket knife.

• 1:00:24Wes Larson?

  Which is like a very brother thing to do. I think that's probably what we would say too.

• 1:00:30Wes Larson?

  Uh, when the paramedics do arrive, they're able to give Colin blood and they stabilize him and load him onto the helicopter. And he sets off for a hospital in Vancouver. And they do think if they weren't able to give him blood in the field, he probably wouldn't have made it to the hospital. Meanwhile, Colin's wife is getting home from her lake trip. It's almost eight PM on Sunday. She turns the corner and she sees that Colin's truck wasn't in the driveway, but his brother and his mom's cars were both there. So she gets out of her car, they rush outside, they tell her not to panic, but that Colin had been attacked by a grizzly bear and already being operated in the hospital, which is like, do you kind of panic when someone says that to you?

• 1:01:10Mike Smith?

  Especially if they're rushing out to me. And if someone's like running at me, yelling at me to not panic, I'm like, well, I don't like, kind of panicking.

• 1:01:20Wes Larson?

  I'm fixing to panic, actually.

• 1:01:22Jeff Larson?

  Well, and it's not fair to her too, because like if she doesn't panic, they'll probably be like, what's wrong with you? Why aren't you like taking this more seriously?

• 1:01:32Mike Smith?

  Yeah. That's why, yeah, you should be like panic a little bit, but not like that much, but enough to know that we know that you care. Find that perfect little middle ground of panic.

• 1:01:44Wes Larson?

  By the time she does get to the hospital in Vancouver, Colin had already undergone over six hours of surgery. He had over 50 wounds and gashes. The doctors had to use over 200 staples and stitches to patch him up. His femoral artery in his leg had to be fixed. They couldn't stitch it back together, so they had to use a vein transplant from elsewhere in his body to stitch it up. And then the bear had come millimeters from rupturing his kidney and some of his other internal organs. Following the surgeries, he reunited with his family and got the bad news that the bear had done a large amount of nerve damage to his leg. And the doctors told him he would probably never walk normally again and probably would never be able to walk on a trail without some sort of brace.

• 1:02:29Wes Larson?

  This happened in the summer of 2019 and in the fall of 2020, Colin had already run a full half marathon.

• 1:02:36Mike Smith?

  Hell, yeah. Wow. This guy is sweet. I like Colin. Yeah. That's amazing.

• 1:02:40Wes Larson?

  He also has tried to summit Mount Doogie Dowler again, but wasn't able to because of weather, I think. He's pretty, pretty freaking tough. Yeah, I'm pretty impressed by him.

• 1:02:51Mike Smith?

  Yeah, that's amazing.

• 1:02:53Wes Larson?

  The bear wasn't so lucky. After successfully evading capture for a while, British Columbia Wildlife officials managed to capture and euthanize this bear. It was a four or five year old male bear that weighed about 350 pounds and was in good condition. It most likely would not have died from this stab wound, but I do think the knife saved Colin's life. They do think this was a predatory attack, the people that investigated the incident.

• 1:03:18Mike Smith?

  Oh, yeah. So you, you think it was the right decision to

• 1:03:23Wes Larson?

  I do.

• 1:03:23Mike Smith?

  get this bear out of there?

• 1:03:24Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I think the fact that it approached him when he's on the road and, you know, doing, there was plenty of distance for this bear to turn around and run. The fact that it approached him and then did attack him, that's not typical behavior. It's not atypical, but it's not typical either. So.

• 1:03:43Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Do you know what's crazy is Americans were still, we're game to use millimeters.

• 1:03:50Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:50Mike Smith?

  Like, we don't really have a smaller, like a universally acknowledged measurement smaller than an inch. So we have to just go to centimeters and millimeters. We gotta, we gotta get on board, figure out the imperial a little like in the other direction.

• 1:04:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I go back and forth on that because in some ways I like the imperial system, especially for temp, for temperature, I think it makes more sense. And I know we're gonna have so many comments of people being like, zero degrees, though, that makes so much more sense. But like,

• 1:04:20Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 1:04:21Wes Larson?

  I, I like how fine grained the imperial system is, but I agree for like millimeters and centimeters, we don't have an answer for that.

• 1:04:29Mike Smith?

  We gotta come up with a new word.

• 1:04:31Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. With Celsius, what, what temperature is it like hot outside? Like, man, it's so hot.

• 1:04:38Wes Larson?

  Like forty is like when it's unbearably hot to most people. That's like when you're close to a hundred, right?

• 1:04:44Jeff Larson?

  See, that's where it's confusing to me is like forty doesn't sound hot. A hundred sounds hot.

• 1:04:50Wes Larson?

  Yeah, but to them forty sounds hot.

• 1:04:53Jeff Larson?

  I don't know.

• 1:04:53Wes Larson?

  Grow up with it.

• 1:04:54Mike Smith?

  To them, a hundred means their waters are boiling.

• 1:04:57Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that means they're dead.

• 1:05:00Wes Larson?

  All right. So I want to do a quick recap of what Colin could have done better, what went wrong. Obviously, he tried to have bear spray. He lost it. That happens. You know, you want to have it somewhere secure. You want to make sure that you're thinking about it, making sure it's there. But that's, you know, stuff like this can happen, but having a deterrent is definitely the number one thing. This encounter would have ended at the bear approaching him on his bike had he had a deterrent. It would have been enough to convince this bear. I'm very confident it would have been enough to convince it to leave. Because you can kind of tell it was approaching him in a measured way. It wasn't, you know, just full on like this is food.

• 1:05:40Wes Larson?

  It was kind of trying to figure it out and a splat, a blast of bear spray to its face would have been enough to be like, okay, this isn't food. This is a threat, a bad threat, a threat I want to run away from. So that's first.

• 1:05:52Mike Smith?

  And sometimes we eat things that are a threat to us, like the puffer fish.

• 1:05:56Wes Larson?

  Sure.

• 1:05:57Mike Smith?

  Food.

• 1:05:57Wes Larson?

  People are like, ah.

• 1:05:58Mike Smith?

  It's worth it. Yeah, try eating one of those puffer fish.

• 1:06:01Jeff Larson?

  Makes it better.

• 1:06:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I mean, this could be the one in a million bear that just is like, just goes through the spray and still mauls him, you know? Another thing that I think, I think the big crux of this one that is the big question mark is what he should have done with his bike. When the bear was right there and it was super close. I, I tend to think like riding away from this bear may have worked. Had, had he just like, as it was kind of getting close, had he just jumped on his bike and tried to get by it and ride down the hill? It may have worked. I don't know, though. Again, you're at a point where it's kind of like you don't have any good options. So I don't disagree with his plan to throw the bike at the bear. But he didn't have a good option at that point is what I'm trying to say.

• 1:06:46Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, no, that's, I don't know, almost feel like just try to fly by it on your bike.

• 1:06:53Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it maybe would have been the right thing to do.

• 1:06:55Jeff Larson?

  I know that could like trigger, that's like definitely hindsight. Had the bear split decision to attacked him, we'd be like, oh, you shouldn't have gone flying past it on your bike. But then it's like, I don't know, maybe that would have worked.

• 1:07:10Wes Larson?

  Yeah. And up until that point, aside from not having deterrent, he'd kind of done things right. He had yelled, he had let the bear know he was there. He had tried to be really big and kind of, you know, intimidating when the bear was approaching him. I don't think this was a bear that was just trying to walk this trail and get by him. In that case, what he would have wanted to do is just kind of move off the, the road or the trail and let the bear have it and get up into the brush and let it go by. I think this bear was investigating him. So there wasn't a good option because he didn't have a deterrent. And this is why you always need something to give you control.

• 1:07:48Mike Smith?

  So brown bears, one of, one of the strategies is to slowly back away and not break eyesight?

• 1:07:56Wes Larson?

  The eyesight thing, don't worry about.

• 1:07:58Mike Smith?

  Yeah, don't worry about the eyesight, but like slowly moving away from. So had he maybe left his bike and backed away just his body, would that have been something you would recommend? Maybe?

• 1:08:11Wes Larson?

  Had I been in this particular situation, I think what I would have done, had I yelled and the bear just kept coming, I would have tried to throw something from my backpack, grabbed some food really quick and thrown it to try and distract it. I probably would have taken my bike with me just because it's like a faster mode of transportation and I would have backed away slowly. Um, so the three things I always tell people are group up, get your bear spray out and get it ready and back away slowly. But if you have a bear that is potentially predatory, which we know is incredibly rare. There's you are gonna have to deter that bear. That's not a bear that like backing away is gonna work.

• 1:08:51Wes Larson?

  Or grouping grouping up might work in that that situation, but backing away isn't really going to. So you need, that's why you need a deterrent is if in case you run to this kind of bear, which doesn't happen much, but it does happen. Yeah.

• 1:09:05Jeff Larson?

  Also, listeners, there's some hammering. I'm in my closet and there's no walls connecting to it. So I'm tripping out that someone's like on the ceiling or something. I don't know where this hammering is coming from. If you heard it, but that's on my end.

• 1:09:21Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:21Mike Smith?

  Maybe my mom's in your place now. Tired of watching me.

• 1:09:26Jeff Larson?

  He was always hammering.

• 1:09:28Mike Smith?

  She's like, Mike just sits there on his computer doing nothing all day. We gotta go find someone new to haunt.

• 1:09:35Jeff Larson?

  No, dude, that's who you need to haunt. Like someone who just watches, watches stuff.

• 1:09:41Wes Larson?

  Let's move on to our categories unless you guys have any other questions.

• 1:09:44Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, no, that is a really interesting one.

• 1:09:47Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I like that story quite a bit. Colin seems just like a the type of person that I always admire and I always feel like that couldn't be me, you know, like way too much, way too intense, but also like really admirable. How much he just needs to be out there doing all that stuff. So.

• 1:10:05Jeff Larson?

  Like the I think the hindsight stuff's interesting on it where it's like obviously the bears losing the bear spray and not going and finding it was the biggest mistake. And is interesting too, because it's like he was knew that he messed up by not bringing some. And then he was given that lifeline just to lose it again. So it's like, I solved the problem and then I got myself right back into where I was.

• 1:10:33Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:34Jeff Larson?

  But then, yeah, like I think he could have maybe flown past the bear. I think he could have maybe like used the bike as more of a barrier than to like throw it at the bear. There's things you could nitpick, but that being said, for not having bear spray, it's like that bear was acting really strangely too, where it's just

• 1:10:55Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 1:10:55Jeff Larson?

  Kind of brushing up against him, not attacking him. So it's kind of like, you don't wanna do too much, but you also like can't just like. Do nothing.

• 1:11:06Wes Larson?

  Right. And, and like we've talked about, there are things that are going to work for almost every bear out there, but there are still going to be bears that act differently. And that's why you need something that works for all of them. And that's what a deterrent does for you is it gives you the upper hand in, you know, 99.9% of those encounters. And there still could be a bear that deterrent doesn't even work, but.

• 1:11:31Jeff Larson?

  If we pretend that bear's a human, first act just or like under the same laws as humans, he kind of attacked first. The bear kind of self-defense.

• 1:11:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah, in a way, I guess that's true.

• 1:11:46Jeff Larson?

  Like the bear never attacked him until he chucked his bike at it.

• 1:11:50Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:51Mike Smith?

  It's a good point.

• 1:11:52Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:11:53Mike Smith?

  Extreme miscarriage of justice that this bear was put down, I think, right?

• 1:11:58Jeff Larson?

  That's not exactly what I'm saying, but I do think it's interesting, like just hypothetically, what would have played out had he not thrown the bike at the bear?

• 1:12:07Wes Larson?

  Hmm. Yeah.

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• 1:16:04Wes Larson?

  That's hims.com/tooth for your free online visit. Hims.com/tooth. Featured products include compounded drug products, which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions, and important safety information. Actual price will depend on product and subscription plan.

• 1:16:27Wes Larson?

  Okay, let's move on to our categories. I asked you guys first, your favorite short king. This can be from real life, from movies, from TV, whatever you want.

• 1:16:39Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, if I'm gonna take it real literal, I'll probably say like Joffrey or from Game of Thrones or...

• 1:16:45Wes Larson?

  Joffrey's your favorite, oh, short king? I get what you're saying.

• 1:16:50Jeff Larson?

  Napoleon.

• 1:16:53Wes Larson?

  He wasn't a king.

• 1:16:54Mike Smith?

  Emperor.

• 1:16:55Jeff Larson?

  He was for a little bit, wasn't he?

• 1:16:57Wes Larson?

  He was emperor, yeah. Okay, I wasn't looking for an actual king. Favorite short guy from movies or TV?

• 1:17:05Mike Smith?

  I didn't find a king, but I did find a prince. His name is Prince.

• 1:17:10Wes Larson?

  Oh yeah, Prince was pretty short.

• 1:17:12Mike Smith?

  He's tiny, he's like 5'2", I think, which isn't tiny, tiny, but he's a little guy.

• 1:17:17Wes Larson?

  And skinny, too, yeah.

• 1:17:19Mike Smith?

  Man, love that guy.

• 1:17:20Wes Larson?

  He transcended being short and not being sexy, you know?

• 1:17:24Mike Smith?

  I think plenty of people are out there doing that, yeah.

• 1:17:28Wes Larson?

  Uh, I picked Josh Hutcherson, Hutcherson? Hutcherson? Peta from The Hunger Games. He's a short guy. He's like, he's like five, five. And I don't know, I've always liked him. I think whenever he pops up in a movie, I kind of get happy that he's there. I think he's a fun actor and I think he's great in those movies. So that's who I picked. Well, Josh.

• 1:17:51Jeff Larson?

  Hold on, I just had one I liked a lot and then that.

• 1:17:55Wes Larson?

  I'll throw out some names.

• 1:17:56Jeff Larson?

  My brain.

• 1:17:57Mike Smith?

  Bruce Lee.

• 1:17:59Wes Larson?

  Jeremy Renner, short. I don't like him.

• 1:18:01Mike Smith?

  Barry Sanders. Kendrick Lamar's pretty small.

• 1:18:05Wes Larson?

  Tom Holland.

• 1:18:06Jeff Larson?

  Oh, Muggsy Bogues. Muggsy Bogues.

• 1:18:08Mike Smith?

  Bogues, yeah.

• 1:18:09Jeff Larson?

  Bogues, yeah, like, he was like five feet tall. And he was a starting point guard in the NBA.

• 1:18:17Mike Smith?

  A little taller than that, but yeah.

• 1:18:18Wes Larson?

  Five six, right?

• 1:18:19Mike Smith?

  He's in Space Jam, so you know he's, he's got supreme talent if the Monstars are trying to steal it.

• 1:18:25Wes Larson?

  That's true. All right. Next category. If you had a kid that's a 14-year-old mega prodigy, kind of like Doogie Howser. What would you want him or her to be really good at?

• 1:18:38Mike Smith?

  Pitching a baseball left-handed specifically. I think that's the way. It's like a non-contact sport. Pitchers, I don't know, it just seems like a good lifestyle for your child to have. And hopefully they'll kick back some of that ace pitcher money our way, since we treated him very nicely and were very supportive of his athletic endeavors.

• 1:18:58Wes Larson?

  Yeah, they couldn't really monetize that at 14, though. They'd have to wait until they're like 18, right, to join the MLB?

• 1:19:05Mike Smith?

  I guess that's true, huh? Shoot, I'm gonna have to rethink that. Cooking?

• 1:19:10Wes Larson?

  Ooh, that's a good answer. Like a, just an incredible chef that's just running an unreal restaurant and then they're 14. People would come from all over the world. Yeah, I like that.

• 1:19:21Jeff Larson?

  Curling?

• 1:19:23Mike Smith?

  Curling, okay.

• 1:19:24Wes Larson?

  Curling is a good answer.

• 1:19:25Mike Smith?

  Interesting.

• 1:19:27Jeff Larson?

  Nah, I think like the long jump would be thrilling. It'd be like I the kid, this kid who I love so much, just jumping a two hundred feet and I'm just terrified every single jump.

• 1:19:42Mike Smith?

  So not a prodigy, but like a superhero is kind of what you're thinking.

• 1:19:48Jeff Larson?

  Well, they jumped like a hundred eighty feet, don't they?

• 1:19:50Mike Smith?

  Long jump?

• 1:19:51Wes Larson?

  Long jump?

• 1:19:52Mike Smith?

  Oh, like on skis.

• 1:19:53Jeff Larson?

  On like skiing, so.

• 1:19:54Mike Smith?

  Okay, yeah, okay, sure. That would be fun.

• 1:19:58Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, skiing, long jump. I don't think I said that. Yeah, like the long jump in the Winter Olympics. If he could just like, it'd be heart racing for sure. It'd be kind of.

• 1:20:09Wes Larson?

  It'd be really fun. I picked um, freediving. Like, I just think it'd be cool if a kid, like a little kid would could just freedive deeper than anyone else in the world. That's kind of a boring answer. I like Mike's answer the best. I think a chef would be pretty cool. I always think it's cool when really little kids are just amazing at skateboarding too. And I always think they have good parents to give them such a cool hobby to get into at a young age. Because it's cool and then it's gonna make you like popular if you're really good at skateboarding, you know?

• 1:20:40Mike Smith?

  Or if you had a prodigy hacker, you'd be safe from dinosaurs.

• 1:20:44Wes Larson?

  She can like click boxes that are labeled.

• 1:20:47Jeff Larson?

  Chess prodigies are always fun where it's like a little kid playing like some.

• 1:20:52Mike Smith?

  That's true.

• 1:20:53Jeff Larson?

  Grandmaster.

• 1:20:54Mike Smith?

  Bobby Fischer.

• 1:20:55Wes Larson?

  I like that. Or like a painter would be cool. Anyway, all right, uh, next one. What's the most useful present you ever got from your dad?

• 1:21:04Jeff Larson?

  Mine's boring, but I couldn't think of anything better than my first car.

• 1:21:08Wes Larson?

  That's what I was gonna say too. Yeah.

• 1:21:10Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:11Wes Larson?

  That's a really good one.

• 1:21:11Jeff Larson?

  Well, and my first car was your car.

• 1:21:14Wes Larson?

  No.

• 1:21:14Jeff Larson?

  And then Cyrus's as well, the convertible Mazda.

• 1:21:19Wes Larson?

  Didn't you had a red car for your first car, didn't you?

• 1:21:21Jeff Larson?

  Hold on. My first car was your car and Cyrus's. And then when Cyrus drove it to give it to me, it like the engine exploded and it was totaled. And it was like, my parents still paid for it, but they were nice enough to still get me a car that I actually could do. So it was a red Toyota Celca.

• 1:21:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah. One thing I really liked about our parents and my dad specifically is that he wanted us to have fun cars for our first car. And not necessarily expensive. Like I had a 1980 Camaro for my first car, but it

• 1:21:59Mike Smith?

  Sweet.

• 1:22:00Wes Larson?

  Cost $900. It had a hole in the floor that water would splash up through. But it was so fun and I loved it so much and it had a lot of character. And I really, really appreciated that he didn't just buy me like a neon or something, you know, like something or a, what's a boring car?

• 1:22:18Mike Smith?

  RAV4.

• 1:22:19Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I do. I have a RAV4 now and they are boring. Yeah. Mike, what's your answer?

• 1:22:24Mike Smith?

  Mine, you can, you guys can tell me if this doesn't count, but I truly believe the best thing my dad ever gave me was just the emotional support to pursue and do whatever I wanted to pursue and do. Like obviously not criminal activity, but there are, he and my mom also, but my dad very specifically. He was always really excited and very supportive and wanted me to pursue new experiences and, and try new and different things. So thanks dad. You're the best.

• 1:22:52Wes Larson?

  All right, Jeff, this category is just for you because I know you're going to have the best answer. I want to hear your Instagram pic from this story. What part of this story do you want a photo from to post on your Instagram?

• 1:23:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Oh, man. Because like a video of it walking right by you would be really cool. Like it'd be like, you could get a pretty funny picture of the bike in the air, like going at the bear.

• 1:23:21Wes Larson?

  That's true.

• 1:23:22Mike Smith?

  I like that.

• 1:23:22Wes Larson?

  That'd be a good one. He wished he had a camera when it was walking by him. So that's kind of what I thought too, but you're right. A video would be much more.

• 1:23:30Mike Smith?

  I think I'd want a picture of me hanging sideways out of the bear's mouth. That's like a gnarly thing, but it would be kind of a fun thing to be able to show people. It's like, here's the bear and this is me.

• 1:23:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:42Jeff Larson?

  That'd be the funniest, like taking a video of yourself, like not living in the moment.

• 1:23:49Jeff Larson?

  You're just like on your phone, taking a video, being like, so, uh, look at this bear.

• 1:23:56Wes Larson?

  So you're probably wondering how I got here.

• 1:24:01Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 1:24:01Jeff Larson?

  People are like, he's not even looking at the bear. He's looking at his phone.

• 1:24:08Mike Smith?

  World's out here, buddy.

• 1:24:10Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:12Wes Larson?

  All right. I want to do a quick, it came from Quora.

• 1:24:16Wes Larson?

  Part of me just feels like dying a little bit when I'm a bear biologist and I'm typing, can you kill a bear with a knife into Quora? But um, here is the answer I got that I liked the most. You probably could kill the bear if you could get inside it without, which is a little weird to say, without striking you with a cut or two or bite that would kill you later. Not likely, though. Forget about direct confrontation. Here's a way that it might work. You have baited the area with berries and yams. Make, make everything smell like berries and yams. Or make everything smell like female bear, which is easy to do.

• 1:24:56Wes Larson?

  Climb on top of a deer stand or high up in a tree and wait. Have your knife ready. If the bear gives you an opportunity to land on its back, then take it. Jump down on its back near the neck and gut its neck. Gut its neck.

• 1:25:15Wes Larson?

  You, okay, wait. You have to be quick or you may not get the chance. Now in all caps, in all caps, I wouldn't do it, but if you insist, how does that sound?

• 1:25:28Mike Smith?

  Well, he's got belligerent by the end.

• 1:25:30Wes Larson?

  Back to lowercase. You could make an extremely long ladder like spear out of the knife that allows you to spear its neck from high up. Back to all caps, that sound better?

• 1:25:44Wes Larson?

  That's the end of it.

• 1:25:45Mike Smith?

  I like that. Yeah.

• 1:25:47Wes Larson?

  Smart. From came to Quora on this one.

• 1:25:49Mike Smith?

  Got a couple of really good ideas there.

• 1:25:51Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:52Mike Smith?

  Just get whip out your essence of female bear and spread it around.

• 1:25:57Wes Larson?

  Berries and yams.

• 1:25:59Mike Smith?

  Do bears like yams? I guess they would.

• 1:26:01Wes Larson?

  I'm sure they'd like it, but my favorite is just ending in all caps, that sound better? It's just very antagonistic.

• 1:26:09Jeff Larson?

  I feel like it's a thing too where bears like in cartoons and whatever like jam. And I think they just confuse jams with jams.

• 1:26:20Wes Larson?

  It's this sounds like maybe not a first language English speaker. But I also just love, I wouldn't do it, but if you insist, how does that sound?

• 1:26:29Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:30Wes Larson?

  With the exclamation point and a question mark.

• 1:26:32Mike Smith?

  I need to follow that Quora user and see what other questions they're answering.

• 1:26:36Wes Larson?

  This was user Marcus Mitchell, comic book buff, grew up reading comics, watching them, et cetera. All right, I've got what, uh, I've got your favorite thing of the month. So just to kind of, I want you guys to throw out something you've been really enjoying so far in February.

• 1:26:53Mike Smith?

  I've been really having a good time with those Dots pretzels, specifically the cinnamon ones. Have you guys tried those? Oh my gosh, they're all good. Like every flavor's good. Yeah, that's just like a tall bag of dots.

• 1:27:06Wes Larson?

  Sorry.

• 1:27:07Mike Smith?

  Yeah. And for some reason, the cinnamon just never made sense to me in my brain. And I finally like sprung for them because it was the one flavor I hadn't tried yet. It's like kind of my favorite. They're really, really sweet and sugary, but just a small handful is like heaven. Heaven on the old tongue.

• 1:27:24Jeff Larson?

  I so I hate being in like a winter city where there's no winter. So Salt Lake, this winter kind of sucks. Like it's just ugly and not warm. But one nice thing was it has been playing golf. So like yesterday I went to the golf course and normally you couldn't ever play this time of year, but you can right now. And I just went on, it's like the, in the summer in Salt Lake, you, it's so hard to get tee times. Like it, they fill up so fast and then it's like, I'll have to play with random people and I don't really want to do that. And it's just like a whole annoying process.

• 1:28:06Jeff Larson?

  And so yesterday I just showed up and I was like, hey, can I play golf? And they're like, yeah, can you, do you want to go on right now? I was like, sure. And I go on, there's no one in front of me, no one behind me. It's just the entire course to myself. And it was like really fun just to have like, do whatever you want on a golf course. No, like, yeah.

• 1:28:27Wes Larson?

  That's like when you have a movie theater all to yourself.

• 1:28:30Jeff Larson?

  Kind of, yeah.

• 1:28:31Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:32Jeff Larson?

  I hit a bad drive, guess what? Just hit another one.

• 1:28:35Wes Larson?

  Just do another one.

• 1:28:35Jeff Larson?

  No one's watching.

• 1:28:38Wes Larson?

  It's like my mom. I, I had a friend recommend a show to me called Culinary Class Wars. It's a Korean show. It's kind of like Physical 100, if you've seen Physical 100, but it's for chefs.

• 1:28:52Jeff Larson?

  Oh, I've seen Physical 100.

• 1:28:54Wes Larson?

  Yeah, on a lot of these shows, they're kind of like on cooking shows, you're kind of getting these real like mid-tier chefs and stuff. But this is like, they have gotten the best chefs in the entire country of South Korea. And sometimes chefs that are from South Korea but are cooking in other places. And they have them competing against like really up and coming amazing chefs from South Korea. And it's grabbed me like no other cooking show really has. And I think part of it is because they are making food that looks, that is disgusting to me because I hate seafood and I like, don't want, they'll be like making the most delicious looking like noodle bowl. And then they'll be like, and my next ingredient is sea cucumber.

• 1:29:38Wes Larson?

  And they pull out this like slimy sea cucumber and chop it up. But they make it look really beautiful. And it's just given me a new appreciation for Korean culture and cooking. And it's made me want to cook more too, which is good for me. Um, so yeah, culinary class war.

• 1:29:56Wes Larson?

  Plus, you know me, I love a class war.

• 1:29:58Jeff Larson?

  What? Yeah. So why is it called Class War?

• 1:30:01Wes Larson?

  Because they have like the white robe chefs that are like the really, really amazing chefs that have like Michelin stars and stuff.

• 1:30:10Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:10Wes Larson?

  And then they have the black robe chefs that are like, they all own their own restaurants that have like lines out the door and they're amazing chefs. But they haven't gotten quite to that level and they compete against each other.

• 1:30:22Mike Smith?

  Like they literally put the, the white robe chefs on like a higher level and they're looking down on them. Like in the first episode. It's a fun show. I haven't finished season one yet, but I'm having a really good time with it.

• 1:30:33Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Okay. Um, I got a few listener questions today. We haven't done them for a minute, so I wanted to catch up on a few from our subscribers. This one's from Cristalyn. Cristalyn says, what non Lord of the Rings character do you think could handle wearing the ring?

• 1:30:51Jeff Larson?

  Ooh, Captain America.

• 1:30:54Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's a good pick.

• 1:30:55Mike Smith?

  Pure of heart.

• 1:30:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:58Jeff Larson?

  Luffy.

• 1:30:58Wes Larson?

  Jesus.

• 1:30:59Jeff Larson?

  Straw hat Luffy.

• 1:31:00Mike Smith?

  George Washington.

• 1:31:01Jeff Larson?

  Jesus is an interesting one.

• 1:31:05Mike Smith?

  Jesus would be, I mean, if everything we've heard about him is to be believed, I think he'd be a pretty good candidate, right?

• 1:31:12Jeff Larson?

  I wouldn't risk it though, because if he becomes corrupted, then like, aren't we all pretty much damned?

• 1:31:19Mike Smith?

  That's true. Like Gandalf, he wouldn't want, he didn't want any of that. Yeah.

• 1:31:23Jeff Larson?

  No.

• 1:31:23Mike Smith?

  You kind of need like a small diminutive little, you need someone like Colin, to be honest. Give Colin the ring.

• 1:31:29Wes Larson?

  Dobby.

• 1:31:30Mike Smith?

  Dobby, Dobby. Yeah.

• 1:31:33Wes Larson?

  Dobby could wear it.

• 1:31:34Jeff Larson?

  Nah, he's like misdevious. He's stealing stuff and spying on people already.

• 1:31:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:42Mike Smith?

  How about Dumbo? You think Dumbo would be a good ring bearer?

• 1:31:46Wes Larson?

  No.

• 1:31:47Jeff Larson?

  I don't remember Dumbo.

• 1:31:49Mike Smith?

  He can fly and he's like a nice little elephant, just kind of pure of heart. I think he'd be great. He'd just fly right into the volcano.

• 1:31:56Wes Larson?

  That's true. He'd just fly right into that magma too. He doesn't care.

• 1:32:01Mike Smith?

  No. All right. That's a good question.

• 1:32:05Jeff Larson?

  What about like Woody from Toy Story?

• 1:32:07Wes Larson?

  No, he's too paranoid, too, too high strung. He's

• 1:32:11Mike Smith?

  He's a little neurotic.

• 1:32:12Wes Larson?

  Yeah, if anything, the dog from, I think any dog.

• 1:32:15Mike Smith?

  Slinky. Yeah. Now imagine corrupted Woody, that you'd be on a warpath.

• 1:32:20Jeff Larson?

  Well, that's what I was thinking. It's like, I'm not that threatened by him.

• 1:32:24Wes Larson?

  That's true. Just crush him.

• 1:32:27Mike Smith?

  But think of the Buzz Lightyear's. They'd be in trouble.

• 1:32:30Jeff Larson?

  That's true. Yeah.

• 1:32:32Wes Larson?

  All right. This one's from Jessica. Jessica says regarding Japan, Mike, what's your favorite anime figurine you bought? Wes, what's your favorite bird you saw? Jeff, as a traveler and an adventurer, what was your favorite thing about Japan that you haven't experienced anywhere else?

• 1:32:48Mike Smith?

  And so figurine, anime figurine, I don't know if I've ever actually bought one of those for myself, but I will say, this is maybe down a road, a little too far removed from that to answer this question legitimately, but I bought a bomber jacket with the Final Fantasy VII insignia on the back of it. It's like a little Moogle writing a chocobell. And that's like the, my favorite purchase I've made in maybe my entire life.

• 1:33:12Jeff Larson?

  I wanted it, but I didn't know the symbol at all. And then it's perfect for Mike. Also, I kinda bought it. Wes?

• 1:33:21Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:21Jeff Larson?

  Do you want to hear how we settled our debts?

• 1:33:23Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:26Jeff Larson?

  We kinda cut you out of it for just establishing, settling our own debts, right?

• 1:33:31Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:32Jeff Larson?

  And I paid a lot more than Mike paid for Japan. And then a bit more than Brent too, but we didn't really know exactly how much. And instead of like looking through it all, I was just like, let's pick four numbers and then we smash for it. So like, we did a thousand, eight hundred, seven hundred and five hundred with Mike.

• 1:33:57Jeff Larson?

  And seven hundred, the second lease he would owe me one.

• 1:34:01Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:02Jeff Larson?

  And then after one, we kind of figured out that I paid up for a lot in Singapore and all these other spots. And it was actually like, pretty like, it had a thousand one, that would have been about fair.

• 1:34:14Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:15Jeff Larson?

  And then with Brent, we figured he owed me about three hundred dollars. And I put the lowest option that I owe him a hundred dollars. And that won. So I paid Brent a hundred dollars.

• 1:34:29Wes Larson?

  Spotted him a hundred more dollars. Yeah.

• 1:34:31Mike Smith?

  That's so.

• 1:34:32Wes Larson?

  I'll get him. I'll get you back, Jeff. I know you're gonna say don't, but I'll find a way.

• 1:34:35Jeff Larson?

  It's fair. Anyways, in Japan, one of my favorite things was just finding a random building and just riding the escalators. Cause every single floor would just have like pop up shops and then like restaurants and then just like all, there's just so many like cool stores that you have to kind of discover.

• 1:34:58Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:58Jeff Larson?

  Like that was my thing that I liked.

• 1:35:00Wes Larson?

  Tokyo without seeing everything.

• 1:35:02Jeff Larson?

  My suggestion would be, don't go too hard on, there's a million Instagram people suggesting what you should do out there. But like, make sure to just like, try to find some hidden spots yourself too, because I really enjoyed that.

• 1:35:16Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:17Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:17Wes Larson?

  My favorite bird I saw, I didn't do much birding in Japan, but I saw an azur winged magpie that I really liked. So that was my favorite.

• 1:35:24Jeff Larson?

  You like does ducks a lot too.

• 1:35:26Wes Larson?

  Yeah. But the azur winged magpie is my favorite. Okay.

• 1:35:29Jeff Larson?

  What were the ducks?

• 1:35:31Wes Larson?

  Uh, they're just redheads, I think, but I'm not sure. This one's from Krista. Two-fold question for all three of you. Uh, but I'm actually just gonna say the first part of it. Sorry, Krista. Would you rather be attacked by a bear while you're wearing a scuba suit? A snowsuit? Or a fancy business suit?

• 1:35:52Mike Smith?

  No.

• 1:35:53Jeff Larson?

  Business suit.

• 1:35:54Wes Larson?

  I'll say scuba.

• 1:35:56Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 1:35:57Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I feel like the neoprene would hold in a lot of the blood and stuff.

• 1:36:01Mike Smith?

  Neoprene. Do you have like the B C and the tank and everything else on? Cause.

• 1:36:05Wes Larson?

  I imagine so. That's.

• 1:36:07Mike Smith?

  Be useful to have some of those. Yeah. The little.

• 1:36:09Wes Larson?

  Spray air at it.

• 1:36:11Mike Smith?

  Exactly.

• 1:36:12Jeff Larson?

  I feel like the paramedics are gonna go a little faster to get me helped.

• 1:36:18Wes Larson?

  If you're fancy. Yeah.

• 1:36:20Mike Smith?

  You look like.

• 1:36:21Wes Larson?

  If you feel like, wow.

• 1:36:21Jeff Larson?

  It's a top priority.

• 1:36:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Okay. Uh, I think I got one more here. This is from Shauna. Hey fellas, if you were being mauled to death by an animal, what song do you want to be mauled to?

• 1:36:35Jeff Larson?

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 1:36:37Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:38Jeff Larson?

  Bing bop boom boom boom bop bing.

• 1:36:41Mike Smith?

  Kendrick.

• 1:36:42Wes Larson?

  Kendrick. I like that. I mean, another one bites the dust is what my mind went to, but that's kind of cliche. Um, but I'll just say that because I didn't really think about it. Mike, what are you picking?

• 1:36:55Mike Smith?

  Uh, it's raining blood by Slayer.

• 1:36:58Wes Larson?

  That's a good one. Yeah. Wait and Bleed by Slipknot.

• 1:37:02Mike Smith?

  There you go.

• 1:37:03Wes Larson?

  All right. Malu says, Wes, can you explain why people are taking frozen iguanas in South Florida? I watched videos of people getting like hundreds of them. Is that legal? Do they eat them? I'm very confused and upset. Uh, I understand why you're upset, but these green iguanas are actually highly invasive in Southern Florida. They are doing very well down there and they're really kind of pushing a lot of the native wildlife out of the same habitat. So people are encouraged to remove iguanas in Florida and when they, when it gets too cold, they literally just kind of fall out of the trees.

• 1:37:40Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:37:41Wes Larson?

  On lawns and stuff. Yeah. So that's what people are doing is they're removing them. It is kind of sad. You can eat them, I believe. And I think they actually taste pretty well, but, or taste pretty good. But, uh, yeah, that's what's happening.

• 1:37:55Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it's one of those things where it seems like something you should shame someone for, like, why are you killing all this wildlife? But it's like. They're kind of protecting the native wildlife and it's

• 1:38:08Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:09Jeff Larson?

  Maybe they're being a little disrespectful about it, but ultimately it's kind of a good thing. It's crazy how many fell out of trees. I saw people with like fifty iguanas and stuff.

• 1:38:21Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's pretty wild. There's so many iguanas down there now. So really, there are never gonna not have iguanas down there anymore, but. Okay, well, that is it for the story. Uh, like I mentioned, we have a really fun two parter coming up soon. We have some fun guests on the horizon. Really excited about the next few months for our podcast. We're going to Antarctica, which is gonna be all three of ours last continent, um, which is exciting. And yeah, Jeff just did a really fun, uh, review of the movie Primate on our Patreon, uh, and our Apple Grizz Club. It definitely went off the rails, but it was really fun, uh, episode that I really enjoyed. So check it out.

• 1:39:03Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, uh, no, is it, even if you didn't see the movie, it's a fun episode and I think I'm gonna follow it up with it. Like my next subscription episode is gonna be real chimpanzee stories too, so.

• 1:39:16Wes Larson?

  Cool.

• 1:39:17Jeff Larson?

  That'd be great.

• 1:39:18Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 1:39:18Mike Smith?

  Follow us on YouTube too. How about that?

• 1:39:20Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:21Mike Smith?

  You get to see our faces when we do this kind of thing, when we record. Face.

• 1:39:25Wes Larson?

  Love you guys. Bye.

• 1:39:26Jeff Larson?

  Love you.

• 1:39:27Mike Smith?

  See ya.