#838: The Random Show — The 2–2–2 Rule, The Future of AI, Bioelectric Medicine, Surviving Modern Dating, The Promises of DORAs for Alzheimer’s, and Wisdom from Anthony de Mello

Welcome to another wide-ranging "Random Show" episode that I recorded with my close friend Kevin Rose https://www.kevinrose.com/ (digg.com https://digg.com/)! This episode is brought to you by: Qlosi https://qlosi.com/tim prescription eye drop used to treat age-related blurry near vision (presbyopia) in adults: https://Qlosi.com/Tim https://qlosi.com/tim David Protein Bars https://davidprotein.com/Tim with 28g of protein, 150 calories, and 0g of sugar: https://davidprotein.com/Tim (Buy 4 cartons, get the 5th free.) Eight Sleep Pod Cover 5 https://www.eightsleep.com/tim/ sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating: EightSleep.com/Tim https://www.eightsleep.com/tim/ (use code TIM to get $400 off your very own Pod 5 Ultra) Coyote the card game​ http://coyotegame.com/, which I co-created with Exploding Kittens: https://coyotegame.com https://coyotegame.com/ Timestamps: [00:00:00] Start.[00:00:52] Why Kevin concluded nearly seven months of sobriety, and the 2-2-2 Rule he now follows for alcohol consumption.[00:07:12] My recent adventures in accelerated TMS and bioelectric medicine.[00:21:09] The tragic death of Nolan Williams and funding future research through the Saisei Foundation.[00:24:23] Aphantasia vs. hyperphantasia, and Joshua Waitzkin's ability to "feel" chess.[00:33:12] DORAs for sleep and Alzheimer's prevention: Matt Walker, Belsomra, and the terrifying p-tau blood test.[00:41:21] Dale Bredesen's kitchen-sink approach to dementia and the ketogenic connection.[00:46:22] The rapid pace of AI development: Why your opinion from three months ago is already obsolete.[00:49:40] Google's full-stack advantage: TPUs, Gemini 3, and why they were built for this moment.[00:52:50] The future of venture capital: Seed rounds shift later as entrepreneurs gain leverage.[00:58:05] Kevin's three AI investment buckets: Power, data centers, and bloated companies ripe for automation.[01:02:05] Holiday gift ideas and recommended reading.[01:17:41] The Way App and meditation with Zen master Henry Shukman.[01:21:44] Kevin's AI stack: Nothing earbuds, Sandbar ring, Notion AI, and the NotebookLM podcast hack.[01:26:58] Oboe.fyi: The AI learning platform and my investment philosophy.[01:32:09] My new girlfriend, the perils of modern dating apps, and building a communication toolkit.[01:38:17] Terry Real's relationship wisdom: Why objective reality has no place in an argument.[01:47:18] Dog updates: Molly, a new puppy, and Toaster on rapamycin.[01:47:58] Parting thoughts and happy holidays.* For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors https://tim.blog/podcast-sponsors Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts https://tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books https://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss http://linkedin.com/in/timferriss See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tim Ferriss?

  Kev Kev, good to see you.

• 0:02Kevin Rose?

  Tim Tim, another episode of The Random Show. Glad to be back.

• 0:06Tim Ferriss?

  Another episode of The Random Show. You look very dashing. For people who can't see you, you have sort of hair slicked back jacket with wide open lapels reminiscent of a leather jacket. You look like a leading man from The Outsiders, that movie back in the day. You just need like a cigarette in your pocket and some other goodies, but you're looking good. Looking good. You also have, as you disclosed to me, your secret weapon nearby, an Ikea light that is providing very seductive shadows and contours on your face. So, well done.

• 0:39Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, I think we're both kind of hacking it together today.

• 0:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, today has been putting together the boxcar on the way down the hill, in a sense, from an equipment standpoint, but here we are.

• 0:50Kevin Rose?

  Here we are.

• 0:50Tim Ferriss?

  Made it. Now, you asked me to grab a glass of wine, which I didn't. I ended up grabbing a glass of gin, Caledonia Spirits, Bar Hill Gin, for anybody who's curious. I do like my gin, B A R R Hill. But this might surprise people, and it surprised me, because last time we spoke, I think you had hit, what was it, six months or however long it was, six months sober. So what is unfolding before our very eyes?

• 1:24Kevin Rose?

  Well, what's unfolding is a glass of champagne is what's unfolding. But I will say that I almost made it to seven months, but then I just decided, my original goal was three months, then I made it to six. And, you know, was I going to continue to go on like this? And I had hung out with some friends. We had a dinner in San Francisco and I thought, you know, I'm gonna have a glass of vino. I'm just gonna have a glass of wine because I don't want to make this. There was a great book, you know, the book Awareness, which you've recommended to me.

• 1:53Tim Ferriss?

  It's one of my favorites. I have one of my many copies downstairs right now.

• 1:59Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, so Anthony DiMello, Jesuit priest, correct? Is that right?

• 2:03Tim Ferriss?

  Jesuit priest who is also a psychotherapist, who is now since passed, but incredibly, incredibly compelling writing. I'm sure we'll get more into this.

• 2:14Tim Ferriss?

  So I listened to the audio book you recommended. So we'll come back to that.

• 2:17Kevin Rose?

  Oh, cool. Awesome.

• 2:18Tim Ferriss?

  But, all right. So take us back to the story you're telling. So you're sitting there at dinner.

• 2:23Kevin Rose?

  Well, prior to that, I'd re-listened to that book and I got it on audio. And one of the things that hit me that he said in the book was-

• 2:31Tim Ferriss?

  I know what it was. Can I guess?

• 2:32Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, you do. Yeah, go for it.

• 2:34Tim Ferriss?

  That abstinence or asceticism, renunciation is as much a trap or can be as much a trap as anything else because it ties you, it binds you to the thing that you are abstaining from.

• 2:47Kevin Rose?

  That's exactly right. That's exactly right. It makes it your lifelong enemy.

• 2:52Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 2:52Kevin Rose?

  And it binds you to it. And so you're like, fuck it. Yolo. Let's have some wine. Well, I want to be bound to it. And I did that with a glass of wine. No, but-

• 3:01Tim Ferriss?

  Break those chains.

• 3:03Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, exactly. The plan was never to be sober for life. It was to reevaluate my relationship with alcohol and get to a point where I could truly say to anyone that I asked, like, the cravings have gone away. And my goal going forward is something I just call the two, two, two rule, which is maximum of two drinks and any given night, never two days in a row, and then two days a week. So just lightweight. That's kind of my new thing. And then also special occasions. Like, I want it to be about a celebration of something or a gathering in some way that is meaningful, not just because, you know, a football game's on or something.

• 3:45Tim Ferriss?

  Well, first, I have more to say, but cheers. I have my little Japanese mug full of Bar Hill Gin. Cheers.

• 3:52Kevin Rose?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait. Like, straight up gin?

• 3:54Tim Ferriss?

  It's just straight gin. I didn't have any ice. You've inspired me to cut way back on my drinking, so I haven't really had much. I don't want to open a bottle of wine that I'm not going to finish with friends or something.

• 4:05Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, I mean, you'll finish your bottle of gin, so.

• 4:07Tim Ferriss?

  So I just grabbed what I had open, which will stay good for a long while once opened, which was this gin. So I'm not going to drink a full glass of gin, but I will have a sippers with you.

• 4:17Kevin Rose?

  I think we're both going to be, uh, cheap dates maybe then because we haven't drank in a while. We might get really sloppy really fast.

• 4:23Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, very, very cheap dates. So- Let me follow up on this story and the 222 plan. How are you intending, if at all, to catch yourself if you start slipping? Do you have people who you want to hold you accountable? Do you have some type of calendar reminder in place? How do you keep an eye on that? Recognizing that you may very well be totally fine, but given the history that you have, it seems like it would be a good idea to put some guardrails in there.

• 4:55Kevin Rose?

  I agree with you wholeheartedly. If my issue with alcohol had been one of excess consumption in that, like, I was never a six or seven drink or even five drink person. For me, it was more consistency. So the one that is easier to catch is you wake up the next morning and you say, okay, I'm just not drinking tonight because you're catching it in a sober state, which is huge. The big foul that I had over the last few years, you know, especially to start with COVID, was just, you know, two drinks a night, maybe three, and just continuing that and taking like a day or two off a week. That was, that's not healthy, as my liver enzymes would report back. But, you know, I'm not as concerned about that. But also, you know, I've talked to my therapist about this and she's amazing and she's like,

• 5:39Kevin Rose?

  hey, I'm, I'm gonna check in with you and just make sure that you're truly sticking to this. But I think an accountability partner is absolutely a necessity, especially when, when it's been such a kind of staple of your life for decades.

• 5:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, for sure. And I think for you, one thing that immediately hops to mind, which seems super mundane, but I know you have a lot of anxiety around flying and I don't think that flying counts as a special occasion, right? So you'll need to...

• 6:03Kevin Rose?

  Oh, it absolutely does. It absolutely does.

• 6:05Tim Ferriss?

  Like, that counts as a special... You fly so much, though.

• 6:08Kevin Rose?

  We are in the air. Like, we shouldn't be able to do that as humans. Like, it is an amazing feat of engineering. So yes, it's special. Tim, don't take this away from me, goddammit.

• 6:19Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 6:20Kevin Rose?

  This is my one thing.

• 6:23Kevin Rose?

  I'm gonna call that a yellow flag in the making, but I'm fine with one yellow flag. I do fly a bit, but you know what's funny is when I came back from SFO, when I actually had that first drink, I didn't want a second drink on the plane. And it's honestly, it's kind of that just like anxiety of the whole process of it all, the security and the packed jets and the people coughing next to you. And kind of once I get settled, I'm pretty good unless it's an international flight and I'm with friends. So yeah, I think it's the first drink actually goes a long way.

• 6:54Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. On that note, first drink goes a long way, especially if it's just straight up gin. So where else should we segue? Because we can come back to this, but we have a lot to catch up on.

• 7:04Kevin Rose?

  So much to catch up on. Why don't we just go back and forth and just like have it be old school, random show where everything's random. We have no idea what we're about to talk about.

• 7:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, let's go for it. So I'll share an update on my side, which folks might find interesting. As you know, and long-term listeners know, I have been, one way you could put it is an early adopter, looking at bioelectric medicine of different types, whether that is legitimate vagus nerve stimulation. By the way, there aren't many options that would fall in that category, interviewing people like Dr. Kevin Tracy, but also looking at most acutely transcranial magnetic stimulation. So TMS, which is a form of brain stimulation, I'll keep it simple, that has existed for decades, but there was an innovation by the very recently late Nolan Williams, sadly, and others called accelerated TMS, where

• 7:56Tim Ferriss?

  you basically take something like 50 stimulations, like 50 different sessions, and you compress it into, you know, one week as opposed to doing it over the course of many months. And this type of dense dosing schedule produces some, in many people, incredible effects. And you saw me after my first experience of accelerated TMS, which was with a device called MagVenture device. It uses neuro-targeting. So you need a resting state FMRI and so on to determine where they're actually going to place this stimulation, depending on your condition and your own individual neuroanatomy and activity. So if it's depression, they

• 8:39Tim Ferriss?

  might point it in one direction or at one place. If it's anxiety or OCD, they might point it somewhere else. And I effectively had, let's just call it Eight or nine out of 10 kind of resting state generalized anxiety.

• 8:52Kevin Rose?

  Was this self-reported, meaning like when you went in there to get the resting state scan, were you like, hey, I'm coming in here with ED and general anxiety. I need you to treat this for me.

• 9:02Tim Ferriss?

  Did you say ED?

• 9:04Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, yeah, I know it's an issue. But I just keep. Oh, we can cut this if you want. We can cut this.

• 9:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, nice. Nice, very, very cute.

• 9:16Kevin Rose?

  No, but I'm all joking aside, like, how did you, how did you determine the areas? Did you have to tell them like, this is what I'm coming in to treat?

• 9:23Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, for sure. Well, they'd run you through, they'd do interviews and assessments that are qualitative. Let's just say, asking you what your symptoms are. Why are you coming here in the first place? Then they would dig into the details and then they would run you through various standardized tests or assessments. So you might have the Madras, you might have the Hamdi, you might have the Y box. There are different assessments that are accepted as standardized for diagnosing, say OCD or any number of other psychiatric conditions. And then you get an FMRI. So you get this scan of your brain, which I did at, I think it was Mass General in Massachusetts,

• 10:08Tim Ferriss?

  as you would guess. And based on that, they can do some precision targeting. And just to give people the upshot of that, I did five days of stimulations. And that gave me basically three to four months of effectively a zero on a scale of zero to 10 of generalized anxiety. So from that point forward, effectively no anxiety.

• 10:34Kevin Rose?

  Wow.

• 10:34Tim Ferriss?

  The rumination, the kind of anxious mental.

• 10:39Tim Ferriss?

  Loops that I would get involved with late at night that would then in turn affect my sleep and cause onset insomnia, et cetera, that went to zero for a period of, say, three to four months, which blew my mind.

• 10:52Kevin Rose?

  Just out of curiosity, were you tracking Aura data and whatnot so you could see kind of the impact of this as measured by different devices?

• 10:58Tim Ferriss?

  I wasn't looking at Aura at that point in time. I have been tracking with Aura at least for the last three to four weeks. And so I'm going to be taking a closer look at things like HRB and so on in terms of trending. But the upshot of it is, and I'll try to compress this a little bit, but that first time I did accelerated TMS, I had this incredible effect, much more durable in terms of its intensity of effect and relief than even any psychedelic therapy or psychedelic assisted therapy that I've looked into. And those were effectively, ended up being the two modalities with the greatest effect size on the psychiatric conditions that I was most personally interested in and where

• 11:42Tim Ferriss?

  I funded a lot of early-stage science. Unfortunately, when I then went to do boosters to do shorter duration, two or three days, nothing happened. My symptoms started creeping back in, which seemed to be hereditary, just to put that out there. I recognize objectively, I'm like, there isn't really anything I should be so anxious about. I recognize that very clearly. Nonetheless, I get caught in these sort of OCD slash GAD, generalized anxiety disorder loops. And I see that in family members, so it seems to be somewhat genetic. In any case, none of these boosters worked. And then I was like, fuck, this is terrible. Okay, well, let me go back and do the full five days. Full five days didn't do anything.

• 12:25Tim Ferriss?

  And then I was looking back at the calendar and trying to identify anything that might have correlated or preceded the first treatment that helped make it work. And I did see that I'd spent a few weeks in the Amazon, ending about two weeks prior to that treatment. So since I was ingesting plants of various types that are known to induce some degree of neuroplasticity, I thought, well, it could be that it was a plasticity issue. Sort of a preconditioning that helped that first session. So I tried to replicate that using psilocybin and did another five days, null effect, didn't have any effect.

• 13:05Tim Ferriss?

  And was starting to feel really hopeless about this, but then came across some research that this is going to sound pretty wild. And this is definitely early, early, early stages. So to my knowledge, I am maybe one out of fewer than a hundred people who have been one of the first monkeys shot in the space, doing this specifically for anxiety. It has been applied to more people with depression, but decided to try simultaneous dosing with something called D-cycloserine, in parentheses, DCS. So D-cycloserine, D hyphen

• 13:46Tim Ferriss?

  C Y C L O S E R I N E, is very, very interesting. So it is an antibiotic that historically has been used to treat tuberculosis and urinary tract infections. But it is also now being studied, and for the last several years, people have been looking at this, as a cognitive enhancer for treating various neuropsychiatric conditions. Wow. Now, how they figured this out, I'm not sure. I mean, it could have been working backwards through the purported mechanism of action. So D-cycloserine has been looked at in conjunction with, say, CBT, like cognitive behavioral therapy, and all sorts of different

• 14:28Tim Ferriss?

  things. And part of what people believe makes it effective as an amplifier of effects, although there can be side effects, and sometimes the pendulum swings the other direction, is that it is a partial agonist at the glycine binding site of the NMDA glutamate receptor. Now ketamine also works on NMDA receptors, but it's an antagonist. So it's very different in that respect. But I will, again, try to cut to the punchline. So instead of doing five days, I did one day, just one day of basically a stimulation every hour on the hour for 10 hours. And

• 15:10Tim Ferriss?

  Preloaded with a lozenge that you just let it melt in your mouth with this D-cyclocerine and it worked one day. It had some side effects. I had insomnia for about two weeks, which seems to happen in some patients who have undergone this. Some people have really bad insomnia for like a month and then it goes away. And I was willing to take that risk. There's some other things that can crop up like temporary loss of some fine motor control and some other weird stuff.

• 15:36Kevin Rose?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 15:36Tim Ferriss?

  Tinnitus in some people.

• 15:38Kevin Rose?

  Wow, with just the treatment in general, the papers that you're signing and say this may happen.

• 15:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I mean, with any of this stuff, you're writing your life away with some signatures.

• 15:48Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, it's like frontier stuff. Yeah.

• 15:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, but the point that I'm trying to make here in a pretty long winded way is number one, it worked. So that leads me to believe that the original hypothesis that it was around neuroplasticity. So I needed to like warm up the Play-Doh before it could be molded properly could be accurate. That could be true. Secondly, and this is incredibly important, most people I know who are really busy or most people who can't afford it can't take five days off of work.

• 16:22Kevin Rose?

  Right.

• 16:23Tim Ferriss?

  They can't take a week off of work to do this treatment, no matter how bad their symptoms might be. And the fact that this D-cyclocerine, like DCS, enhanced treatment was able to be compressed into a single day, I feel like it opens up the multitude of people who can potentially use this tenfold, a hundredfold, a thousandfold, who knows? And it should also, at the same time, really decrease the cost. So it's made me even more bullish around accelerated TMS. And it's been, I'd have to go back and look, maybe a month, six weeks, but it's still sticking, which is remarkable. So in any case, for people who want to hear more, they can listen to my podcast with Nolan Williams that goes

• 17:07Tim Ferriss?

  into a lot of detail around this, but very exciting stuff. It turns out a lot of these things might be interrelated and that certain types of TMS, when implemented properly, actually seem to also stimulate the vagus nerve in some interesting ways. So this is kind of the next frontier that I'm most interested in exploring right now is bioelectric medicine, sort of computer chips over. Pills. Yeah. I think it allows you in some respects to get much more targeted. So that's good news for me, but I think it's also obviously at the edges of medicine right now. But I think that in the next two to three years, I could see this becoming a much more accessible therapeutic for millions of people. And there are some companies you can watch.

• 17:52Tim Ferriss?

  I mentioned one, MagVenture or MagVentures. The other is called Brainsway, and they're actually a very small company, but publicly traded. And I'm sure there are going to be more entrants. So, super exciting stuff. But now I feel like I have a recipe worth trying to replicate. Where maybe once a quarter, maybe twice a year, depending on when. I think it's a when, not if, I see symptoms start to creep back in. I don't think this is a one and done, nor is any psychedelic assist therapy that I'm aware of. So I expect it'll be some type of ongoing treatment that I do one to four times per year.

• 18:39Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. You know that move when you hold your phone at an arm's length just to try to read a message? You squint, you try to get even further away. Does that sound familiar? If so, you may have presbyopia or age-related blurry near vision. Luckily, we now have an option beyond reading glasses. I suffer from presbyopia. It is not fun. So, I'm excited to introduce you to this episode's sponsor, Closey, Q L O S I, an FDA-approved prescription eye drop designed to improve your near vision and help you see things up close more clearly. With once or twice daily dosing, packaged in single-dose vials, Closey fits into your routine and is ready when you need it.

• 19:23Tim Ferriss?

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• 20:01Tim Ferriss?

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• 20:42Tim Ferriss?

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• 21:08Kevin Rose?

  When you think of the potential inability to replicate this again in others, I know you put a lot of cash personally into philanthropic things around research and studies. Are you curious to push on these buttons and see, can you put together a trial with 50 people? And what's your thoughts there?

• 21:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I would definitely be interested in funding more research. The Brain Stimulation Lab at Stanford, I've already funded some research within. Very sadly, Nolan Williams, who helped develop a lot of these technologies, died, I mean, I want to say it was a month or two ago, by suicide, very sadly.

• 21:46Kevin Rose?

  Oh geez.

• 21:47Tim Ferriss?

  And he was a friend, and...

• 21:52Tim Ferriss?

  Really heartbreaking to see. And I mean, it's hard to put that aside for the moment, but putting it aside for the moment, I did fund research within that lab. I suspect that's going to take time to implement, particularly given the leadership vacuum that was created by his very, very tragic death. But I am interested in funding more research. And this is an ongoing thing. As you know, my foundation, the SciSA Foundation has funded all sorts of on the edge research since 2015 or so, I would say. So this is for sure where I would like to fund more research, particularly looking at these combinations.

• 22:33Tim Ferriss?

  And that could be something like D-cycloserine plus stimulation. And at certain clinics, they have cohorts of, say, 60. I think it's at the time that I did it, there were 60 patients who had been treated for some form of anxiety disorder with this combination. I think that at least at that particular clinic, on the depression side, the numbers are larger, probably 200 or so. But it's exciting. It's exciting. And that's enough to get a signal. And sure, you need to check all the boxes and do the randomized placebo-controlled

• 23:13Tim Ferriss?

  studies with multiple arms and all that. But it is enough to start to see a signal, especially when you have treatment-resistant cases that haven't responded to other things. And that's enough to inform at least the design of a study that would take much longer. So we'll see. I will say that much like some people experience with GLP-1 agonists like trisepotide, monjaro, or ozempic, or whatever, after these treatments, and maybe it's just from really putting the brakes on a lot of the OCD-like circuitry, that I had much less desire to overconsume caffeine, to overconsume alcohol. It made dialing all of those things back a lot easier.

• 23:59Kevin Rose?

  You know, that's a massive benefit of GLP-1s for a lot of people, which is huge. Well, dude, I'm pumped for you, man. It's like, I love to see you getting some relief here. That's even if just for a few months and it's fantastic. It's repeatable.

• 24:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. So fingers crossed. We'll see. And for people who want to learn more, I would suggest they start with the, as eerie as it might be, my conversation on the podcast with Nolan Williams. All right, man, you're up.

• 24:24Kevin Rose?

  Right. Speaking of brain related things, I was at a dinner with a friend and I was kind of lamenting and talking about just my inability to remember faces, names, and then how that extended into childhood for me, which was doing poorly on tests and just, I couldn't quite retain the information the way that my friends could. I just could never explain it. And somebody at dinner, my buddy Mao, said to me, do you have aphantasia? And I said, I have no idea what that is. And then he said, okay, I want you to close your eyes right now. And this is going to blow some people's minds right now. I know. Close your eyes and picture an apple in your mind's eye.

• 25:09Kevin Rose?

  You know, picture an apple. What do you see? Do you see a red apple? Do you see water droplets on it? Does it look fresh? Does it look like an HD image? And that's what he said to me. I go, what are you talking about? And he goes, well, what does it look like to you? And I go, there's no apple. He goes, what do you mean, there's no apple? And I said, well, there's kind of like an outline, kind of ghosty, foggy thing, maybe-ish. And he goes, oh, you have aphantasia. And I was immediately jumped to like, you know, whatever, ChatGPT. And I had no idea that people suffer from this condition. And it's in a low, single-digit percentage of people and they have no idea that this is a thing. Where you cannot picture something in your mind's eye. Had you heard of this before or no?

• 25:54Tim Ferriss?

  No, I hadn't until you dropped it in one of our group kind of friend text threads. This was, I guess, a couple of weeks ago. But fantasia is spelled like the Disney movie, but actually, no, that would be with an F. It's aphantasia, A-P-H-A-N-T-A-S-I-A. Yeah, is the inability to voluntarily visualize mental images, first described in 1880.

• 26:18Kevin Rose?

  So you knew this was like, when you close your eyes, what do you see? Cause they give you a scale there and a five is like an HD, full on beautiful apple. What do you see? Do you see perfect quality apple?

• 26:30Tim Ferriss?

  So athantasia can be considered the opposite of hyper fantasia. I am the exact opposite. I have hyper visual recall and the ability to visualize. I can probably draw the vast majority of restaurants or the floor plans that I've ever visited. I can absolutely spec it out and have very, very vivid visualization. So I would be on the far other end of the spectrum.

• 27:02Kevin Rose?

  So when you think of a new idea, do you see it in some ways? Cause I feel it.

• 27:08Tim Ferriss?

  You are very similar to my friend, Mike, because I remember Mike and I have a lot of shared flight time with psychedelic experiences and he was describing how he has almost no visual imagery and it's almost purely kinesthetic for him. And that is as hard for me to imagine as it is for him to imagine my experience, which is overwhelmingly explosively visual.

• 27:33Kevin Rose?

  What's crazy dude is how many things I thought were jokes. Like when people said they counted sheep before they went to bed. I was like, oh, that's funny. Like, yeah, like, what do you count numbers in your head? But I didn't know they see sheep. I didn't know. And if you're younger, mute the podcast for 10 seconds. I didn't know the Spank Bank was a real bank. Like you could visit. I didn't even know that was a thing. I seriously, I didn't.

• 28:02Tim Ferriss?

  Well, to be clear, it's not a bank with like tellers and.

• 28:04Kevin Rose?

  No, but it is in your head.

• 28:06Tim Ferriss?

  Safe security boxes.

• 28:06Kevin Rose?

  It is in your head. You could open up the box and go back and like see that. I can't see any of that.

• 28:16Kevin Rose?

  My buddy from Dignation Podcast was like, after we stopped recording, he's like, "You've got to be kidding me. So you can't go back and like, look at like, you know, people you've dated in the past during intimate moments and see, re-visualize that?" I'm like, "No, I have no idea what you're talking about." And he's like, "Oh, he felt so bad for me. Almost like, was almost starting to cry for me." It's horrible.

• 28:36Tim Ferriss?

  Well, what do you think you have, if anything, kind of developed in compensation?

• 28:43Kevin Rose?

  Yeah.

• 28:44Tim Ferriss?

  Of that?

• 28:44Kevin Rose?

  Well, the one thing that I have never been able to explain is that the feeling side of it, everything is a feeling. So I have a friend of mine, and I'm not this way, but she composes music, and she said that she sees in her head, music is represented as colors. So when I come up with ideas for projects, I'm not seeing something, I'm traversing kind of a feeling of a path, rather than a visual thing. And so it's a lot more on, it's funny you mentioned the fear of flying. I think part of the reason why I have such a vivid fear of flying is that feeling comes so strong of the plane crashing, not that I see the plane crashing.

• 29:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 29:20Kevin Rose?

  So it's just a different thing, but I wouldn't trade that for the world. That has served me quite well in investing and seeing around corners early and things of that nature. But when I explain that to people, like you feel a new idea, there's been a bunch of people that have no idea what I'm talking about. And something can, I think you can probably have both, but new ideas come from a rising of feeling, not visual, if that makes sense.

• 29:44Tim Ferriss?

  Wild. I mean, it doesn't really make sense to me, but it would make sense to my friend Mike. And thinking about all this and hearing about your friend who, I think you said sees musical notes as colors, that's often referred to as synesthesia. And there's a really amazing little book that I read ages ago. It's been around. For a long time, I'm looking at it right now, it was published in 1987, but it's 192 pages. Anyone who's interested in memory and mind and the vast differences between people might be interested in this. It's called "The Mind of a Mnemonist," I think is how it's pronounced, like mnemonic device. M-N-E-M-O-N-I-S-T. A little book about a vast memory.

• 30:27Tim Ferriss?

  The author's name is A.R., those are initials, A.R. Luria, L-U-R-I-A. And the descriptions are very short, so I'll just read it. "This study explores the inner world of a rare human phenomenon, a man who is endowed with virtually limitless powers of memory. From his intimate knowledge of S., the Mnemonist, gained from conversations and testing over a period of almost 30 years, A.R. Luria is able to reveal in rich detail not only the obvious strengths of S.'s astonishing memory, but also his surprising weaknesses. His crippling inability to forget, his pattern of reacting passively to life, and his uniquely handicapped personality." Fascinating, fascinating book that I really recommend to people. But, Aphantasia, who knew?

• 31:11Kevin Rose?

  You know who I should talk to is Josh Waitzkin, because didn't he say that he feels chess? And for people that don't know, he was the guy that was based on the movie Searching for Bobby Fischer.

• 31:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, Searching for Bobby Fischer was originally a book and then a movie, which was based on the childhood chess prodigy chapters of Josh Waitzkin's life. And Josh hates that term prodigy. He has some unusual hardware, to be sure, but he also has a really incredible framework that he's applied to now four or five different fields to become world-class in all of them. But he does have a feeling about certain things. So he was playing, one of the stories that he told, has told me is he was playing a simul, which means he was playing... I don't know what the number was, 20 to 40 people simultaneously where he's walking around a room and Oh yeah, you do it really fast, right? You just look and move.

• 32:05Tim Ferriss?

  He's just moving from table to table really quickly. And I think it was with some like very high level high school players, something like that. Maybe they were younger, I can't recall. But he was going around, he's playing 20 or 30 simultaneous games in his head. And then at one point, he explained it as it feels like you're juggling 20 or 30 balls in the air. And then he got to one table and he felt all the balls come crashing to the ground. My god. And he said, it felt as though I just missed a ball and they'd all fallen on the ground. And he couldn't quite figure out why that was the case. And then he was able to deduce that one of the kids had cheated. One of the kids had moved a piece. Oh, no way. And it was just a gut feeling.

• 32:49Tim Ferriss?

  And then that visual that allowed him to figure out which of the kids had cheated. That's just insane. Holy shit. That people can even do that. Yeah. Josh, if you want to listen to Joshua Wadkins' first ever podcast, you were podcast episode number one and he was podcast episode number two, if I remember correctly. That's amazing. Yeah. Wild character. Oh, man. Let's see. All right, you're up. I'm up. Well, you know, I'll give another sort of medical one that I think is interesting. And I've been texting and interacting with Matt Walker a lot on this. Matt is a scientist. He wrote a book, Why We Sleep, and is about as credible as you can be within the world of sleep science.

• 33:34Tim Ferriss?

  He's the best. And he's a great human. He's a great guy. Great guy, has the most pleasing dulcet tones with that British accent and kind lilt in the voice. Plus 10 IQ accent, basically. Yeah, plus 10 or 20 IQ points with the accent. But his podcast is also excellent. And we can link to it in the show notes, but he did an episode on a class of sleep medication called DORAs. And D O R A stands for Dual Orexin Receptor Antagonists. And the reason that DORAs became very interesting to me is that I have Alzheimer's in my family. And it's left, right, and center for me right now because I have three relatives currently

• 34:18Tim Ferriss?

  diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Holy shit. And these are APOE for negative, folks? It includes APOE for negative folks, so we won't get too far into the genetics. But people who should not be, based on that particular parameter, should not be particularly inclined to Alzheimer's, nonetheless have Alzheimer's. And then there are, of course, people who have 3/4. I don't think any of them are APOE 3/3. I am APOE 3/4. So compare it to a 3/3, then, at least as I understand it, would predispose me, say, 2.5 times.

• 34:53Kevin Rose?

  You and my wife and Rhonda Patrick and Atiya, who actually is a 3/4.

• 34:58Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, there you go.

• 34:59Kevin Rose?

  All of you guys. I'm the only one that's not. Crazy.

• 35:01Tim Ferriss?

  So in effect, to our current understanding, you want to mitigate the accumulation of two things. One is beta amyloid plaque, another is tangles that are created by tau proteins. And sleep is really imperative for this. And if you have sleep issues, as I have for decades, the onset insomnia, low percentage of deep sleep, et cetera, you're effectively unable to have your garbage service within the brain clear out these at a rate that offsets the accumulation.

• 35:38Kevin Rose?

  And by the way, we don't know if these are causal, right? There's never been any conclusion whether these are causal. They're most likely the protective effects of something else gone awry. Do you agree with that?

• 35:46Tim Ferriss?

  I would say that based on our best understanding, if you can mitigate the accumulation of these things, there seems to be a, at the very least, delaying of the progression of these diseases. And there are different drugs, infusions like donanimab and so on, that are kind of predicated on that understanding of the mechanism. This is still early days in the world of Alzheimer's, but it seems very defensible with our understanding currently that.

• 36:15Tim Ferriss?

  The less of this stuff you accumulate, the better off you are.

• 36:18Kevin Rose?

  Do you follow Dale Bredesen's work, by the way?

• 36:21Tim Ferriss?

  I don't. Let's come back to that.

• 36:22Kevin Rose?

  Okay.

• 36:23Tim Ferriss?

  Let me just quickly tie this up and say that an example of a Dora would be Belsomra. There are many others, or I should say a handful of others, but I have taken as, I believe you have. You're a tre- well, actually, no, it was too strong.

• 36:36Kevin Rose?

  I gave you some, dude.

• 36:38Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's right. You gave me the Belsomra.

• 36:39Kevin Rose?

  I gave you a bunch of Belsomra and you were gonna give me some other shit back and you never gave me anything good.

• 36:44Tim Ferriss?

  Well, hold on, hold on. That's still pending, but let me, let me come back. So you gave me the Belsomra, but I started using it. I was gonna get it on a prescription. It's expensive as fuck.

• 36:53Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, I paid a shit ton for it and then I didn't use it.

• 36:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, and I was like, all right, I'll take your Belsomra. But the Trazodone, I got off of Trazodone and switched as a sleep medication to, in this case, Belsomra, because it was literally down the street in an Uber at your house. Not recommending you use your friend's bootleg drugs, by the way. Talk to your doctor, but-

• 37:14Kevin Rose?

  But we also have physicians that are looking at all our shit, so it's not-

• 37:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. I have been now on Belsomra for a few months as hopefully a, it's too strong to say it's a preventative strategy, but at least a delay strategy for potentially Alzheimer's and other associated neurodegenerative conditions. So I would encourage people, and I'll link to this in the show notes, to check out Matt Walker's podcast on this specifically.

• 37:40Kevin Rose?

  You know what they do with Belsomra where they tap the spines of people that took it and they noticed there were less tau in the proteins in the spinal fluid?

• 37:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, they cleared a lot more. I mean, I think it was, they looked at animal models and then they looked at humans. And in that podcast episode also, Matt discusses data related to comparing, say, Belsomra, or I should say Dora's, to Ambien. And not all sleep medications are created equal. A lot of sleep medications effectively sedate you. But in the case of Dora's, Orexin, as I understand it, is a wakefulness, I think it's a hormone, but this is effectively inhibiting wakefulness as opposed to sedating. And by using that particular approach,

• 38:28Tim Ferriss?

  you're able to create more naturalistic sleep. So it's preserving sleep architecture, increasing certain things like REM sleep. In any case, it's very interesting because as it stands, look, sure, exercise- For a natural release of clotho, watch your diet, blah, blah, blah. There are a handful of things here. Sleep, super critically important. If we're talking about, again, staving off, hopefully, neurodegenerative disease. But there really just aren't that many tools in the toolkit. So to come across some of this data via Matt Walker was very eye opening to me.

• 39:05Kevin Rose?

  That's awesome.

• 39:06Tim Ferriss?

  That's also something that I'm looking at really closely.

• 39:08Kevin Rose?

  I will say the scariest test I have done in my life was about three months ago. I went and had my blood work done and had the tau before. Like you can check your blood now to see if you are producing. We're always producing it, but if you are out of bounds, meaning you're above the norm in your production of these types of proteins. And if you are, it's like, you know, 99% chance you're on the path to some form of dementia. Right? And did you do that test?

• 39:36Tim Ferriss?

  I have just done a whole battery of different tests.

• 39:41Kevin Rose?

  Did you do the PTau one, though?

• 39:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'm gonna have all that stuff.

• 39:44Kevin Rose?

  It's scary, dude. Come hang with me, we'll have a drink or something.

• 39:49Tim Ferriss?

  I'm looking at all my results in probably two or three weeks because I have a few online batteries that I'm gonna do assessments.

• 39:56Kevin Rose?

  It is absolutely terrifying because the doctor was like, hey, do you want to do this? I have this available. And I was like, sure, go ahead. And then like three days afterwards, I'm like, I should look up what that test is all about. And I did, there's like three of them now that can detect these various proteins that are essentially, if you have elevated levels, like your marching orders or you're heading towards some type of dementia. And I realized that and I was like, wow, if this comes back positive, this is an emergency situation where high intensity interval training every single morning for an hour. Like, there's a lot of things you have to get into and it's a very frightening thing. It's a very frightening thing.

• 40:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it can be super frightening and there's certain other things that I think are just. Holistically good for my particular goals, cognitive, psychological, physical, like the ketogenic diet, right? I recently did a podcast with David Bazooki, the co-founder and CEO of Roblox. And he and his wife have a foundation that is one of the large, it is the largest funder of science related to metabolic therapies with a particular focus on ketogenic therapy. So I will be doing all of December in ketosis, as an example.

• 41:10Kevin Rose?

  Oh, that's amazing.

• 41:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, just to keep that metabolic machinery humming, because I do think it's plausible that it could help long-term with a lot of the stuff we're talking about.

• 41:20Kevin Rose?

  So, Tim, real quick, just to put a bow on this, Dale, yes. So, the reason I like Dale, Dale's a scientist that studies all forms of dementia. He has a book called The End of Alzheimer's. You've probably heard of that book. It's pretty popular.

• 41:32Tim Ferriss?

  I've come across his name, yeah.

• 41:34Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, so he's a little bit different than most of the scientists out there, where he believes that Alzheimer's and these other dementias, they're not just a kind of one-size-fits-all, one thing went wrong, but it can be a suite of different things that go wrong that lead you down this path. And so it's metabolic disorder, it's potential toxins, it's like, you know, I think he's like the four major contributors to different various forms of dementia. And he's developed this protocol that can stabilize and even reverse a lot of this early cognitive decline if you catch it early enough. And it's a little bit of like throwing the whole kitchen sink at it, because it's everything. And he's not quite sure exactly what is doing the fix here, but it's fascinating, the research that he's

• 42:16Kevin Rose?

  done. I highly recommend, two things that stood out to me that he recommends is, one, getting this PTOW test done on the blood front, and also recommends the ketogenic diet. And this ketogenic diet is huge for people. And he's seen that alone stabilize people from mental decline. And not that they're not eventually going to get it, but the point is like, do you want to go into full decline within five years? Or do you want it to be 15 years? Right? And so that's kind of what his lab's focused on.

• 42:43Tim Ferriss?

  Cool. Yeah, I'll check him out. I mean, I've seen, not that this is a Necessarily sustainable or scalable approach, but with some of my relatives with Alzheimer's where it's pretty progressed and they tend to give no one word answers or get confused and give the wrong answer to questions. Giving them, say, 35 milliliters of exogenous ketones, they're not in ketosis. They're following the terrible diet they've always followed, but give them 35 milliliters of kind of high octane exogenous ketones before going for a walk. And within 30 minutes, they're speaking in full sentences.

• 43:23Kevin Rose?

  It's wild.

• 43:24Tim Ferriss?

  You see some really wild temporary, but nonetheless very interesting transformations, which comes back to what you said about metabolic syndrome. And there are good reasons why some folks refer to Alzheimer's as type three diabetes.

• 43:37Kevin Rose?

  Hundred percent. And that's what he says in his book. He's like, that is definitely a contributor, like excess glucose levels and all the downstream inflammation effects that come from that. It's bad news bears, as you like to say. What's Tim Ferriss?

• 43:50Tim Ferriss?

  Bad news bears.

• 43:56Tim Ferriss?

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• 44:40Tim Ferriss?

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• 45:09Tim Ferriss?

  Hey folks, Tim here. My bestselling card game Coyote, which I made with the amazing team at Exploding Kittens, just won the Pop Insider Best Geeky Game of 2025 and also Best Stocking Filler in the Made for Mums Toy Awards 2025. It is on sale everywhere. It's cheap, it's fast to learn, has 4.8 stars out of 5. People are loving it. CoyoteGame.com will take you to all the retailers, but you can find it everywhere. It is a game of thinking fast and laughing faster. Think charades, meets hot potato, meets a bunch of brain fun. It's good for your head. It's perfect for families with kids aged 10 plus or adults who are kids at heart or don't take themselves too seriously. A lot of adults love this

• 45:52Tim Ferriss?

  game. And as I said, it's available everywhere. Amazon, Walmart, Target, 8,000 plus retail locations, you name it. So please check it out. I loved making it. People are really enjoying it. It has 300 or 400 million plus social views of gameplay online. And try it, enjoy it this holiday season. Check it out, CoyoteGame.com. One more time, that's CoyoteGame.com or anywhere you buy your games. Now, back to the episode. All right, Kevin, what you got?

• 46:23Kevin Rose?

  I'm a technologist and we've talked about some of that stuff on the show before. So I kind of wanted to give people a quick little update on the State of the Union around all things AI.

• 46:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, please. I could use it too.

• 46:35Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, it's just such a fascinating time in that every, I'd call it four to eight weeks, maybe a slight bit longer, sometimes less so, we're seeing leapfrogs in what is possible. And one of the things that I would caution people against is forming an opinion about AI and then locking yourself in time around that opinion. Like, I'll give you a great kind of practical example. I have a lot of engineers that said, hey, I tried AI for coding, it was horrible. And my first question is, when did you try it? And they said, oh, three months ago. I'm like, no, you don't understand. It's three to four times better than it was three months ago, right? And so we have to make sure that even if you

• 47:18Kevin Rose?

  Are looking at some of these technologies and say, hey, it can't do X or it's horrible. It's hallucinating in this way. It's giving me the wrong answer. This is without a doubt the massive Motorola block phone version of the iPhone. We are in that realm of AI like this, the very first innings of it all. And every few months, I mean, even Opus four or five came out three, four days ago, whatever. It's amazing. Explain what that is. Okay. So when you think about frontier models, meaning like, do you have the bigs? Anthropic, you've got Google, you've got, you know, OpenAI. And then I'd throw a couple of others in there. Meta is kind of trying in some sense and perplexity and whatnot. But when you think about the big massive models that are running, that are the bleeding edge of all this,

• 48:03Kevin Rose?

  meaning they are the best of the best, the most expensive per query. What happens is they have to train this, these data sets. And then they go in and they eventually release a model, right? And these are typically marked by software versioning numbers like, you know, ChatGPT three versus ChatGPT four, versus ChatGPT five. And then they'll do five, one, five, two, or, you know, four, one, four, two, whatever. So it's like software kind of versioning on these models. And whenever you see a new release, you're talking a jump in terms of both, sometimes the capacity to understand information and they call that like the token context windows. And then also their just natural built in abilities of the things that they can do well.

• 48:45Kevin Rose?

  And so some things they can do at a graduate level now, some things they can do, you know, their novel ideas is still pretty low down the chain in terms of what they can do around original thinking. But they have all these benchmarks. They have, you know, probably 15 or 20 different benchmarks that they run it against. Like, can it complete the bar exam is one, right? And so now they're able to do it. And then now it's, the question is, how quickly can they do it in, right? Did it take them 25 minutes before? Now it's five minutes. So then there's a bunch of inference side of, of benchmarking as well. So we're seeing Gemini three came out just a couple of weeks ago and it was fantastic. And I will say that, you know, I called Nvidia on here way back in the day.

• 49:26Kevin Rose?

  It was 1.8 trillion, I think, back in the day when I said, hey, I think this is going to run. When you and I were talking about it and it did, because I knew GPUs were just going to be the most precious commodity we have and as technologists. I have seen that Google now is in the driver's seat here.

• 49:46Kevin Rose?

  And I'm really excited for them because one, you know, I worked at Google, they acquired one of my companies and I spent a few years there and I've seen inside the belly of the beast and I will tell you that they were built for this day and age. The fact that they've been training their entire life for this moment. Like they have all of the PhDs and all of the folks that they need to go pull this off across the entire suite. And so what do I mean by the entire suite? And this is where it gets really interesting to him. Like if you think about what OpenAI has to do to compete, they have to go and buy up as much data center space as possible and they have to buy a shit ton of GPUs from Nvidia. That's what they need because they don't own the stack. They own the software, the training, the engineering, the soft goods side of the business, but they don't

• 50:31Kevin Rose?

  own the hardware side. This is a fantastic, really interesting stat. When Gemini 3 came out a couple of weeks ago, it was the first time they had trained a frontier model, like the best of the best. When it dropped, it was the best model in the world exclusively on Google chips. So they have these chips called TPUs, Tensor Processing Units. They have the full stack, dude. They don't even need Nvidia. It's wild. They didn't use an Nvidia chip to train their AI and they have world-class AI. So it's just really exciting. This is such a fun time to be alive because right now you can take someone that is a technologist

• 51:15Kevin Rose?

  in the sense that they have a rough understanding of the available tech that's out there and you could build and produce and ship any app that you want within a few days. Now with what we have and it's just going to get better and better. So the creativity and the shipping unlockments that we're about to see over the next five years is going to be unlike anything we've ever seen before. If you have the idea for an app or a product or a service, anything digital, you will be able to take it from ideation and, you know, drawing it on a piece of paper to actual shipping something to your customers within, you know, to call it less than a week, which has just never been done before at a price that is, I don't

• 51:56Kevin Rose?

  know, $500, right? And so if Tim wanted his own app five years ago, I'd have been like, okay, great. You want the Tim Ferriss fansite slash ED help app, then you could do it to build that. To build that would be 50 grand, right?

• 52:13Tim Ferriss?

  I feel like you and I feel like you have a problem that we need to talk about. You're just bringing it up so much.

• 52:20Tim Ferriss?

  After that half a glass of champers, I feel like.

• 52:22Kevin Rose?

  It went straight to my head, number one.

• 52:23Tim Ferriss?

  Turning into a mini confessional here.

• 52:25Kevin Rose?

  We need to talk about your relationships because one of the things that whenever I get on. I'm telling you, whenever we do a random show, people are always like, they send me a message and they're like, I love how you give Tim shit, number one, and number two, we want to hear more about his personal life. And I know you've got a new special someone in your life.

• 52:43Tim Ferriss?

  I do.

• 52:43Kevin Rose?

  Which I'm very excited for.

• 52:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, we can talk about that. Yeah, nice segue.

• 52:46Kevin Rose?

  Let's jump into that now that we've covered Google.

• 52:47Tim Ferriss?

  Hold on, hold on, hold on. I want to ask you for a counterpoint on a previous. I wouldn't call it necessarily a prediction, but we talked about, I think it was in the last episode of the Random Show, a bit about venture capital and I wouldn't say that you said across the board venture capital would be dead because there are capital intensive businesses that require.

• 53:11Kevin Rose?

  Hardware.

• 53:11Tim Ferriss?

  Hardware and build outs and wet labs and all this stuff. But I'm wondering if I just put on my future vision goggles, which I wish I had, but let's just pretend I do. And I look forward, doesn't need to be five years, right? I look forward two years and what you are describing is a reality. The barrier to entry, the hurdle is so low that suddenly from ideation to product takes a week.

• 53:39Kevin Rose?

  Yes.

• 53:40Tim Ferriss?

  And there is an absolute glut, this just overwhelming tsunami of products. So now on the positive side, yes, what would have cost people millions and millions of dollars to do 10 years ago? Let's say 15 years ago, suddenly AWS and rentable infrastructure comes along, that cost goes down. Now AI comes along, cost further goes down.

• 54:06Kevin Rose?

  Sure.

• 54:06Tim Ferriss?

  But I imagine the war for attention is going to get so incredibly expensive. Do you think that products that get traction will nonetheless? If they don't have the income stream to support it, raise venture capital purely for a marketing war chest and customer acquisition. I'm just wondering if you think you could make the argument that the customer acquisition costs are going to get, or user acquisition costs are going to get so high because everyone, you're going to have 100x the number of bidders. Now, who knows what the forum will be. I don't know if it'll be Google AdWords, maybe it'll be something else. What are your thoughts?

• 54:44Kevin Rose?

  There's a couple of things there. The best products I've ever invested in, period, full stop, have been ones that don't rely upon paid acquisition to grow. So they have come up with something that is unique and novel enough to where word of mouth is their number one driver. That said, capital and deployed the right way, you know, and spent the right way around ad purchases is just fuel for the fire, which is great. And so VC is dead in the sense that the seed round was like, okay, I have a kind of idea-ish. I'm going to go out and take $3 million and I'm going to give away 20% of my company. What happens in the future is not that you don't need that capital, because I think you're right, you will need it for a variety of things. Like if you're hitting insane scale, there will be moments where you need to put more

• 55:29Kevin Rose?

  warm bodies in seats to help you do all the things, and you may need to raise venture. But the difference is, when you have product market fit, you go from raising and selling 20% of your business for $3 million to selling 20% of your business for $15 million.

• 55:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 55:45Kevin Rose?

  Which is just fantastic for the entrepreneur. So it's not that venture is dead, it's just that what we're going to see is the entrepreneur is in control like they've never been before, which is fantastic. And if they say, okay, I'm off to the races and things are going so well, but guess what? I'm actually charging for my product and I'm break even, you don't ever have to raise VC. And then now you own 100% of the business and you're a Jason Fried, which we know is one of the most brilliant entrepreneurs of our time that invented SaaS, that just has never taken any external investment, and you're just happy and you don't report to anyone, which is a beautiful thing as well.

• 56:20Tim Ferriss?

  So do you think it's just like the killing fields for early-stage folks and the value capture just gets pushed to later and later stage?

• 56:29Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, I think that's right. And I think largely on just tech that is understandable by AI, meaning if you're running TypeScript or any of these languages that AI can figure out and write high-quality code for, you just don't need to raise capital. You can do it nights and weekends on your own.

• 56:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, amazing. Okay, so if you had to, is it fair to say if you had to bet on one horse in the AI race that you would bet on Google? And then I have a follow-up question.

• 56:57Kevin Rose?

  Oh, wow.

• 56:58Tim Ferriss?

  Now, I know a little bit too much behind the scenes. If you had no stake in any companies.

• 57:04Kevin Rose?

  Yeah.

• 57:05Tim Ferriss?

  How would you?

• 57:06Kevin Rose?

  Well, I never answer like that. I would always give you the the true answer, even if.

• 57:09Tim Ferriss?

  I know, I'm just like, I gotta say it. But yeah, where would you put like first, second, third bet?

• 57:15Kevin Rose?

  Hmm. Well, at these valuations, I wouldn't put a single dollar into the top three or five, largely because what are you gonna do? Is Google gonna 3X maybe in the next 10 years?

• 57:28Tim Ferriss?

  Well, also, it remains to be seen how much AI cannibalizes their current money printing machine in terms of search and sponsored ads.

• 57:37Kevin Rose?

  I'm less worried about that because they own the largest distribution platform on earth, which is Android. And so they will find a way in there. And then also, I think if Google had to pick their poison and say, okay, you can either base the future business off a $25 a month pro subscription to Gemini, or a free account that is just ad-driven, you know, I think they'll take that hybrid model all day long.

• 58:02Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Interesting. Okay, so you wouldn't put any money into the big ones. So do you choose then, are you trying to find Amazon in 1998, 1999, right? Just in the absolute noise of AI slop doesn't just apply to, you know, sore videos. It also applies to startups, right? There's so much bullshit floating around. Some of it's dressed up in very fancy clothing with fancy names. So if you're investing in AI writ large, how do you even, I mean, this is your job, right?

• 58:39Kevin Rose?

  I think there's three buckets. One is power. Without a doubt, we're all gonna need power. There's small nuclear reactors are gonna be a thing. The United States needs three to five exes power capacity in the next decade, if not more. And there is gonna be a huge push into energy. So there's a bunch of plays there. You can look them up. There are even ETFs that track bundles of nuclear-related companies that are out there. That's one play. I think power is without a doubt the most important piece of this. And then, you know, data centers, there's publicly traded data center companies out there. There are the bigs like Microsoft and Google and Amazon that are just expanding as fast as they possibly can and buying up land all over the United States. There are always going to be a premium on that. They're going to need that.

• 59:23Kevin Rose?

  Nvidia, you know, they've got competition from AMD. They've got competition from Google now. Obviously, they have such incredible tooling on the software side. There's a lot of defensibility there. It's a name to own. Would I buy in today at today's prices? I don't know, but I will say that if you think of this less about, I'm just going to pick one horse and more like I'm going to pick a basket of things. Like, these are the things that I would be putting into that basket. And then lastly, I would take large companies that have insane bloat from headcount that can be automated in the next, call it, two to three years, where they will reduce sadly, and I hate to see this happen, but it's going to happen no matter what. They're going to reduce their headcount. They're going to automate with AI. And their profit margins are going to go through the roof.

• 1:00:04Kevin Rose?

  And I think those companies will reap the benefits of efficiency that comes from AI, and their stock prices will as well.

• 1:00:10Tim Ferriss?

  How do you identify companies that have the most bloat with also the fewest hurdles to adopting AI for what you're describing, right? Because in some of them, they may be, who knows, just put in a position where they, from a process or regulatory perspective or whatever, they just can't do it, at least in the near term.

• 1:00:28Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, in the near term, it's listening to earnings calls. And it is, I want to hear the CEO saying that they are absolutely forcing their engineers to use AI. Forcing. You have to be. It is not optional at this point to ask your engineers to play with it. You have to be using it every single day in your workflow. And the folks that are doing that, even though it's not perfect today, they're going to reap all the benefits 12 to 18 months from now. That's what I'm looking for more than anything else, is who is wise enough, because a lot of the CEOs are old, who is wise enough to say, you know, it's true, we know these folks, and they're, they just don't. If you ask them the difference between Haiku 4.5 and Sonnet, they would have no idea how to tell you.

• 1:01:10Kevin Rose?

  If they can't answer those basic model-related questions, like, what are you doing? So it's finding those people, like the Jack Dorises in the world, and the folks that are just like, well, I wouldn't want to say young, because I don't want to be ageism, but you have to be leaning into this in a way that is going to... They have to believe that their entire business is going to be rebuilt from the ground up over the next, you know, call it five years.

• 1:01:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:33Kevin Rose?

  And you have people like Salesforce CEOs doing that, you know, obviously Benioff's on on board with this. There's a handful of folks that have said, we are making sure this is a mandate from the top down. Google did this quite well where they they had this like red alarm or, you know, thing that they called off probably three years ago where said it is all hands on deck AI. And Apple did not do that. And now look what's happening. They're probably most likely Apple's going to end up licensing Gemini from Google.

• 1:01:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Wild world out there, kids. Wild world.

• 1:02:01Kevin Rose?

  Yeah. It's a fun time to be alive, man. It's fun to be playing.

• 1:02:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah, totally. Let's see. I figure I could give people some maybe holiday gift ideas.

• 1:02:11Kevin Rose?

  Oh, yes, I've got some great ones.

• 1:02:13Tim Ferriss?

  First thing I can recommend, something you can fit in your pocket. So this right here looks like a golf ball with little, not quite spikes, but like studs on it. They're flattened. This is called a Rubz Ball, R U B Z. And I travel with this. You just roll out your feet on this before you go to bed. And I have felt this help everything from relaxing and just winding down. What I have noticed, and this is something I spoke with Ed Kone about 100 years ago, long time ago. He's the greatest powerlifter of all time. Phenomenal athlete, very nice guy. But basically, if you address your feet, sometimes you feel it all the way up the

• 1:02:56Tim Ferriss?

  kinetic chain, lower legs, knees, even your low back can sometimes release. So this, I think it's cost less than 10 bucks. This is a Rubz Ball. You can buy it on Amazon or anywhere else. That's a very easy one. That's just pocket sized. We can go back and forth. What you?

• 1:03:11Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, let's do it. Okay, so this one is awesome, dude. You have my doc that I sent you, right? With the links to everything?

• 1:03:17Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Kevin Rose?

  I don't know if you have it up in front of you. So if you click on the second one down, these bonsai nano blocks. So I've been talking about nano blocks for a while.

• 1:03:24Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:25Kevin Rose?

  Hear me out, dude. This is a fun stocking stuffer. People are gonna love this shit. So it's $38. It's these little baby bonsai trees. Nano blocks are like Legos, but they're like one tenth of the size. So you need tweezers to assemble them. It is oddly satisfying to build these little tiny like bonsai trees. You get all six of them for $38. And if you use the code TIM, no, there's no code, but if you, they're amazing. They're so fun. Anyway, NanoBlocks are awesome. This is a little fun little pack, great stocking stuff. They're super tiny. They're cute and they make... Look at the... There's NanoBlocks up there on my... Up there behind me. See that beautiful tree?

• 1:04:03Tim Ferriss?

  Oh yeah. There it is. So, you recommended a book to me. Do you want to mention it? It's last in your list. I bought the audiobook and I listened to it on my flights recently. I thought the narrator was really, really good also.

• 1:04:16Kevin Rose?

  Yeah. It's called Stop Fixing Yourself: Wake Up, All Is Well. It's by Anthony DeMello, who we were talking about, the Jesuit priest and therapist that we talked about earlier. Tim, when we had both somehow discovered this book originally, not this book, but the other one we're talking about.

• 1:04:31Tim Ferriss?

  Awareness.

• 1:04:32Kevin Rose?

  Awareness. And it was really cool to hear that you were into it because I was... One of my favorite books that... We did not compare notes. We read this independently. I don't know how the hell that happened. But we both loved it. And this is another one where I was just like, damn, this is so good because there's so many core truths here that apply to my practice on the meditation side. And I just loved it. But it does require a little bit of understanding. It's not like someone from off the street can totally read this and be like, oh, that makes a ton of sense to me. I don't know if you felt that way.

• 1:05:03Tim Ferriss?

  I feel like, well, there are two things I would say, just having read a lot of Anthony DeMello, that I think Awareness, subtitle Conversations with the Masters, it used to be the perils and promise of reality, but they changed the subtitle. I preferred the old one. But Awareness by Anthony DeMello, his last name is two words, D-E-S-P-A-S-E-M-E-L-L-O, is 184 pages, and I've gifted it to at least 50 people. I mean, I have an entire bookshelf full of this book in my guest bedroom in my house, just to give friends.

• 1:05:33Kevin Rose?

  Yeah. Same, dude. It's so funny.

• 1:05:35Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. And I would recommend people read Awareness first. I don't think you need anything special in terms of background for that.

• 1:05:43Kevin Rose?

  Well, you do need one thing. You need to know that it is a lecture. So it reads like a lecture. It doesn't read like a book.

• 1:05:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, which I like. Which I like. And he's very no-nonsense.

• 1:05:53Kevin Rose?

  Because people were like, I gave it to a couple of friends and they started reading it. They're like, wait, is this a talk that he gave? And I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. I should have told you that. It's an actual talk.

• 1:06:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. It's a collection of polished lectures that he gave. So Awareness would be the first. And then, in the case of the Stop Fixing Yourself, I really...

• 1:06:14Tim Ferriss?

  Enjoyed it. There's a lot of overlap with awareness. So there are certain points that get reiterated. The audiobook rendition of Stop Fixing Yourself is very, very good. I disagree with some of the conclusions, which are effectively along the lines, I shouldn't say, this might sound unfair, but in the conclusion, he talks about how ultimate freedom is not depending on anyone for anything, and you can be perfectly happy in isolation by yourself. And I was like, evolutionarily, I think that's actually a pretty hard sell. But what I would suggest is if you listen to or read these books, as with any book, expect that you're going to disagree with and maybe even discard 10, 20% of it. But

• 1:06:56Tim Ferriss?

  don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. These are really, really helpful books.

• 1:07:00Kevin Rose?

  Well said.

• 1:07:00Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So let me grab another one here. I'll recommend two others in case people are interested in books. So Fiction Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. I think it might just be Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow. Anyway, It's Tomorrow Three Times by Gabriel Zevin, Z E V I N. It's a fiction book, and it was on the New York Times list of the 100 best books of the 21st century. It's a new one, and it is all about entrepreneurship and game design and love unrequited. And when I recommended this book initially in Five Bullet Friday, my newsletter, one of my attorneys who helped craft the agreement for Coyote, another stocking stuffer, the card game.

• 1:07:45Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, I noticed it's on Black Friday's sale, by the way. It's 38% off on Amazon right now or something like that.

• 1:07:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's $7.99 right now. It's doing super well. The reviews are great. It's like 4.7 or 4.8 stars.

• 1:07:56Kevin Rose?

  Man, I'm so proud of you, dude. This is so cool to see you having success here.

• 1:08:00Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:00Kevin Rose?

  I thought you were gonna do the Five Hour Body, and I was like, ah, you probably shouldn't go there. It's nice to see you doing this.

• 1:08:05Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, so it's been super fun. But my attorney who helped with the negotiations on deal structuring for Coyote specializes in video games, and he's been involved with some epic deals and amazing.

• 1:08:19Tim Ferriss?

  Mergers and acquisitions and all this crazy stuff. And he texted me after I put that in the newsletter and he said, that book is so good. It was eerie because it is so accurate down to the finest detail that it felt like somebody was looking over my shoulder when I was doing these deals. Like that is how well researched this book is. You would love it. I really think you would enjoy it.

• 1:08:40Kevin Rose?

  My old assistant, Sarah, who is amazing, she gifted it to me and it burned in the fire when my house burned down.

• 1:08:46Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, you gotta read it.

• 1:08:47Kevin Rose?

  But I need to, I need to get it. Cause she was like, you gotta listen to this book.

• 1:08:51Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it's so good. Yeah, it's great. And then the last one I'll recommend, because I gave, we gave some nonfiction, then just gave fiction. I'll give poetry, which people might not expect, but it's little tiny compilation. This also has an entire shelf in my guest room. It's called Gold. It's by Rumi and then the translator, Hala Eliza Gafori, last name G A F O R I. Hundred and 12 pages and it is just an incredible collection of poetry. Of course, originally by the great Persian mystic, Rumi, but with incredible new translations by Hala Eliza Gafori, who is an American poet of Persian descent. So she's a native speaker and also she herself, a poet and musician.

• 1:09:36Tim Ferriss?

  So if you read one or two of these poems before you go to bed at night, it just makes everything better. So I would also just recommend, so I can keep going with gift recommendations, but I suspect you have more.

• 1:09:48Kevin Rose?

  I've got some great ones, dude.

• 1:09:50Tim Ferriss?

  All right. Well, we do two at a time. Why don't you do two and then I'll do another two.

• 1:09:53Kevin Rose?

  Okay. I'm gonna make you a multi billionaire from how many people buy this next one? I'm gonna say with your Amazon affiliate link. This right here, my friend, is the best purchase I've ever made in my life.

• 1:10:06Tim Ferriss?

  Whoa, that's a strong statement.

• 1:10:08Kevin Rose?

  No, I, I mean, okay, maybe not, but it's high up there.

• 1:10:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:10:12Kevin Rose?

  This is, so have you ever been in one of those situations where you need a small little screwdriver? Or a screw head and you're like, you can't find the right one that fits?

• 1:10:22Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:22Kevin Rose?

  So this is 25 different micro, everything from hex nuts to screwdrivers to flatheads. And it's a magnetic little insert into the actual one. Now you think, okay, who cares? But it's $7.79 and it acts like a $25 screwdriver.

• 1:10:40Kevin Rose?

  It is the best stocking stuffer in the world. You know, once a year or twice a year, you'll get something where it takes like two double A's or whatever. And it's like, oh, there's a little tiny screwdriver thing you gotta undo. And I'm like, where am I gonna find something that fits that? This is that thing. And then when you wanna like tweak your glasses or whatever, you need those micro screwdrivers, dude, $7. This thing rocks. It's amazing.

• 1:11:02Tim Ferriss?

  How did you find this thing?

• 1:11:05Kevin Rose?

  You know, it had good reviews on Amazon. I bought it. And when I got it, I was like, they should be charging three times as much for this thing. The torque doesn't actually ruin the bit heads, which is great, because oftentimes the cheaper ones, like the bit heads got ruined. Anyway, it's, you have to have it in every junk drawer in your house, you know? It's one of those things. I love these things, because you often ask me, you said, back in the day when you were doing Five Bullet Friday, where you wanted me to like contribute stuff, you would say, hey, what's the best thing under $50 or whatever that you love?

• 1:11:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:11:33Kevin Rose?

  And this is one of those things, it's under $10, that is absolutely worth every penny.

• 1:11:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, love it. All right. So, under $10, I don't know if it's $10, it might be a little bit more, but in addition to the rubs ball, I'll just give a couple of quickfire. There's something called the Alpha Ball by TuneUp Fitness. It was actually introduced to me by Inseema Inyoung, who you, or Iyong, I think is how he pronounces it, but you sent me his video. So, you are responsible for me ultimately connecting with him. But this Alpha Ball, for rolling out your hips, for traveling with it, it's about the size of a softball, but it's just the perfect density and texture. You can get everywhere you need to get, which you cannot do with a foam roller, nor is it easy to travel with a foam roller. And I just love this thing. I use it pretty much every day.

• 1:12:21Kevin Rose?

  I didn't see it on video. Did you hold it up?

• 1:12:23Tim Ferriss?

  No, I have it downstairs in my suitcase, actually.

• 1:12:26Kevin Rose?

  Okay, let me look it up. What's it called again?

• 1:12:28Tim Ferriss?

  Alpha Ball by TuneUp Fitness. You can find it on Amazon. And I'll actually tell you, since I don't wanna misrepresent, it's, yeah, it's $19.99, more than worth every penny. And I can send you a link to it, of course.

• 1:12:42Kevin Rose?

  Sweet.

• 1:12:43Tim Ferriss?

  Then, other things I'll throw in there, this is gonna be one of those things, this is my version of your little TED Talk that you just gave on the $7 screwdrivers, where people are like, you gotta be kidding me. This is my version of that, which is the, I don't know how to pronounce this, Maestri, M-A-E-S-T-R-I.

• 1:13:03Tim Ferriss?

  Mastery House rechargeable milk frother.

• 1:13:06Kevin Rose?

  Wow.

• 1:13:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:13:08Kevin Rose?

  Mine was better than that, but I.

• 1:13:10Tim Ferriss?

  Well, hold on, hold on, hold on. So I have owned so many of these frothers for coffee, for tea, for whatever, right? Protein shakes or whatever, these little hand frothers.

• 1:13:19Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, they all break. They all suck, dude.

• 1:13:21Tim Ferriss?

  They all break or the batteries die and then you can't recharge it. Or it's like an outboard motor and you're like, oh, let me just do this for my tea and relax. And it like shoots liquid all over the place.

• 1:13:32Kevin Rose?

  Right.

• 1:13:33Tim Ferriss?

  There are so many issues. This thing is, it's like the Lamborghini of milk frothers.

• 1:13:40Kevin Rose?

  It costs, oh, I love that.

• 1:13:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it costs how much? 30 bucks. It's not that crazy.

• 1:13:45Kevin Rose?

  Well, it's USB C two charging. That's amazing.

• 1:13:48Tim Ferriss?

  USB C and you basically turn the very top of it to adjust in any increment you want, the intensity of the agitation. And it, I have to tell you, I asked somebody on my team to just do diligence and get me a frother that would solve all these problems that I mentioned. And he knows how to do a lot of research and this was his conclusion. And I got it and I was like, where has this been all my life? Oh, my God, has almost 3,000 reviews or 2,600 views, 4.5 stars. This thing is just amazing. I use it every day. So that's one. And you know, when I put this in Five Below Friday, what I wrote was it reminds me of sage wisdom from Kevin Kelly, who is the founding editor of Wired Magazine. Amazing guy.

• 1:14:32Kevin Rose?

  We did a walk with him together.

• 1:14:33Tim Ferriss?

  Exactly. So he had, at that time, I think it was a draft of a book that he put together. This tiny book called Excellent Advice for Living, which are these pithy little quotes from Kevin that he used to put in his, I think they were his birthday letters to friends, where he'd be like, here are the 10 things I learned this year. And one of his pieces of advice is take note if you find yourself wondering, where is my good knife or where is my good pen? That means you have bad ones. Get rid of those.

• 1:15:02Tim Ferriss?

  Like I have shelves full of shitty frothers that have been sent to me or that I've bought, and they're just terrible. So I just got rid of all of them and replaced them with this thing.

• 1:15:11Kevin Rose?

  That's so awesome.

• 1:15:13Tim Ferriss?

  Other things real quick, microphone, you know, I got this microphone. For travel called the Elgato, one word.

• 1:15:20Kevin Rose?

  Oh yeah, love Elgato.

• 1:15:22Tim Ferriss?

  Elgato Wave 3. It is a gorgeous piece of design. It looks, it makes me think of Braun Design back in the day, B R A. And it actually solves somehow bounce and echo better than even this fancy mic, this Shure mic that I'm speaking into right now. It is really impressive. I don't know what they do with the firmware, software, whoever the hell designs these types of things, but this has become my favorite travel mic is the Elgato Wave 3.

• 1:15:52Kevin Rose?

  Have you seen their prompter, by the way? They make a tiny little prompter. Like if you want to like read scripts or anything like that. Oh, Elgato makes this beautiful little prompter you can control with an iPhone or an iPad. Yeah. For people that are doing kind of like monologues and podcasts and stuff like that. Elgato is some great gear and it's not that expensive. It's well priced.

• 1:16:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, this one, the Wave 3, I'll check out the prompter. It's got almost 10,000 reviews, 4.7 stars, 150 bucks. And I rely on it for, to the extent that I'm professional, professional level of recording. And there's a lot more I could jump into. I'll tell you what, I'll give one that's expensive, but the best of breed, which is the Tank M3 Push Sled. This is a sled, I literally sitting right outside my door, about 100 feet away. I have tried so many different sleds for resolving back pain, for building all posterior chain development, strength, glued activation, you name it.

• 1:16:55Tim Ferriss?

  Pushing and pulling a sled just gives you so many dividends. Knees Over Toes Guy also talks about this at length, but the Tank M3 Push Sled is-

• 1:17:07Kevin Rose?

  Holy shit, it's pricey.

• 1:17:08Tim Ferriss?

  Bar none, the best sled I've ever used. Yeah. How much is it? You just pull it up.

• 1:17:12Kevin Rose?

  1,500 on Amazon.

• 1:17:13Tim Ferriss?

  1,500, yeah, 1,500 bucks and-

• 1:17:15Kevin Rose?

  It looks amazing though.

• 1:17:16Tim Ferriss?

  I would not trade it. You can easily rotate it. It has mechanical resistance. So for instance, I'm pushing it in a gravel driveway. It's not just skids. You can use this on turf. You can use this on carpets. You can use it indoors without destroying the floor. It's just an amazing sled. So if people are looking for best of the best, in my opinion. And versatility, that's one. And then if you don't want more stuff or you want to give something to friends or family who don't need more things, like physical things, I am talking my book a little bit here because I'm involved with the company, but the way, the way app, it's so easy, right? I mean, we're going to be doing hopefully another retreat in person together.

• 1:17:59Tim Ferriss?

  It started out, it's just my hand down favorite meditation app. It's the easiest way to get back in the habit. I just used it yesterday morning and this morning. I tend to do 10 minute sessions and then sometimes do an extra 10 minutes of like TM or something after the fact. But I think you can get 30 sessions for free with no credit card required to try it out. And then if you want to give an annual membership, that's a hundred bucks and you can just download the app for free and then tap my way and share it with people that way with a gift button.

• 1:18:30Kevin Rose?

  I'll definitely add on to that. And well, I'll say that I met Henry, the creator of the way app and he's a, one of the very few Zen masters that are fully accredited in the United States. It is such a treat to interact with and have Henry as a guide and you get a pocket Zen master. And I don't want to sell this, but I will say that in the last, I started with him and training with him in terms of meeting with him over Zoom during COVID. And now it's been a few years. There is no better money spent in terms of, for me, it's been more like retreats and things like that that I've been to of his, but meditation in terms of my just general anxiety and general

• 1:19:11Kevin Rose?

  just like way of moving through life, it's been a game changer. It's been a game changer. And Henry, I will give him a ton of credit there. One of the things that he told me early on, which I thought was, it still hits me today is, it's not about, can I put in an hour a day of meditation? It's better to put in just 10 minutes a day or five minutes a day and do it consistently than it is to try and achieve the mountaintop and go all out. Like, can you just show up consistently? And I think if you do it for the first 30 days, you'll feel it, you'll feel it.

• 1:19:41Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, you'll notice something much earlier in my experience. And you know, if Henry,

• 1:19:48Tim Ferriss?

  Has this expression, I'm going to paraphrase it, but basically if you do the practice, even if in some sessions, you're like, my mind is all over the place. I feel like that was a waste of time. If you walk consistently in the fog, you can't help but get wet is one of his expressions, meaning like it compounds over time. And even if you feel like individual sessions aren't doing much, it does actually compound. And if people want to keep it simple, you can find a QR code at the way app.com slash Tim, and that'll give you 30 free sessions with no credit card. So people can check that out if they want. What else do we have, Kevin?

• 1:20:21Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, I've got one more that's fun. It's on the slightly pricier side. It's a little over $200, close to $300. Actually, it's a walking treadmill. My wife, Daria, turned me onto this. It is a very thin, tiny little walking treadmill that has phenomenal reviews. And you just throw it underneath your desk. And for under $300, you can set the incline to like, you know, 10, and it's all with a little tiny remote control. And there's nothing to hold on to because you have your desk. And you can just work and it rolls away because it only weighs like 50 pounds. And you can just stash it in the corner. And I think it's the best walking treadmill. We did a bunch of research and it's the best

• 1:21:02Kevin Rose?

  one. Under $300, great way to get some exercise in there. Throw on a weighted vest there. You're in a really good place.

• 1:21:08Tim Ferriss?

  Oh yeah, that'll be plenty. Yeah, dig it. Yeah, I saw that when Daria was showing me her office. I was like, Oh, look at that. There it is.

• 1:21:14Kevin Rose?

  That's right. You got the tour. I wasn't even home and you came over and installed my sleeping meds and

• 1:21:19Tim Ferriss?

  Snagged your balsam run, took a spin on the walking treadmill and then took off. Yeah, I still owe you a trade for that. But I do see in your notes, do you want to take a second and run people through Kevin's current AI stack? Since I don't, this is all Greek to me. I can't, I probably don't even understand what half of this means.

• 1:21:37Kevin Rose?

  Well, real quick, I don't know if you want to touch on New Year's resolutions really fast.

• 1:21:41Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, let's do it after your AI stack.

• 1:21:43Kevin Rose?

  Okay, so AI stack. One of the things that I've noticed is becoming more and more kind of ubiquitous in this space is this idea of an AI assistant that is not your phone, but something that you can kind of call when you need to remember something, when you need to take notes, when you, you know, and Tim, I was wearing that little pendant when you and I got together.

• 1:22:03Tim Ferriss?

  Hate it, hate it.

• 1:22:05Kevin Rose?

  It's always recording. Tim goes to me, he's like, it's always recording? I was like, yeah. And he goes, I hate to ask you this, but can you just take it off? It's too much anxiety for me. So I had to take off that pendant and put it in my bag. But I agree with you in that it is weird. It does kind of cripple our conversations in our honesty when you know there's something that they're listening all the time, right?

• 1:22:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, 100%.

• 1:22:28Kevin Rose?

  And so a couple of things, Nothing, the Android phone company, I'm not an investor or anything like that. They make headphones, which I'm wearing right now for this podcast. But one of the things that was really cool is just like when they released headphones a month ago, they have a little talk button on the headphones. And so if you hold down talk as you're holding your headphones case, I can record anything and it goes into their AI and it creates to do list for me, notes, whatever it may be.

• 1:22:54Tim Ferriss?

  That's a cool feature.

• 1:22:55Kevin Rose?

  It's just fun. Yeah. And so there was a company called Sandbar and we invested it. True. It wasn't my deal.

• 1:23:00Tim Ferriss?

  So a quick question, do you need to have an Android phone to use those?

• 1:23:04Kevin Rose?

  Yes, you need to have a Nothing phone.

• 1:23:05Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, bummer.

• 1:23:07Kevin Rose?

  That's the problem. But the idea is sound in that it's not always on, it's just when you need it, right?

• 1:23:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yep, yep.

• 1:23:12Kevin Rose?

  And one of the things that Sandbar did, and I have one of their prototype rings around here somewhere, but one of the things that Sandbar did is they created a ring, almost like an Oura ring, where if you just lightly touch it, you can whisper to any notes you might want, and it saves it in the AI cloud on your phone, Android OS, whatever. And it's a way to have a conversation. If you have headphones in, it'll respond back to you. It's like, hey, remind me, what's that meeting I have tomorrow? And just like quietly, it doesn't listen to the entire room, and then it gives you that data back in your headphones. Anyway, Sandbar's not out yet. It's coming out middle of next year. Highly recommend sandbar.com, checking it out. Like I said, it is something that we invested at the fund level, but it's not my deal. But I will say, I like where this is going, even if it's

• 1:23:53Kevin Rose?

  not Sandbar. Something like this, that is a little companion, that is not your big ass phone, that can be engaged with when you want to jot something down is quite cool. Outside of that, I would say, you know, AI on the Notion front has been quite good. Notion has gotten the agents that they've added inside of Notion are phenomenal and that continues to get better.

• 1:24:16Tim Ferriss?

  What do you use that for? How do you use that?

• 1:24:19Kevin Rose?

  Well, Notion just added note taking now. So if you're in a Zoom or any type of video call, it will automatically prompt you to record the entire thing. And so by default, I always say to people, hey, I'm just, you know, Notion's not actually recording the audio, but they are transcribing it and they put the meeting notes and the bullet points into my Notion for me. And then I can ask questions of that transcript later on. So call it like a week or two later, I'm like, hey, Tim mentioned some really cool book by Anthony DeMello, which one was it? And it would boom, right there. It's like within two seconds. That's really cool. And then you can ask questions of your entire corpus of data. So if you're storing a bunch of stuff in there, like I had my EIN number for one of my LLCs and I'm like, hey, what's the EIN number for this LLC?

• 1:25:03Kevin Rose?

  It's like two seconds later it's out, right? So that's fun.

• 1:25:06Tim Ferriss?

  When do you think Gemini built into G Suite will be good enough to do that for an inbox?

• 1:25:11Kevin Rose?

  It is now.

• 1:25:12Tim Ferriss?

  Is it? Okay. Cause it was so disappointing as of even a few weeks ago.

• 1:25:16Kevin Rose?

  I just enabled it, this kind of like deeper integration. I don't know if I'm a beta tester, but they, they let me in and it does exactly what I just said. So it's, it's within the coming weeks, if I've happened to be on some beta list and whatever, but you know who will do this right now is actually the Gemini, oh, what are they calling it? It's their kind of AI suite where you can drop documents into it and everything. Everyone's screaming it, right? I mean, you know what I'm talking about, right? Have you played with this?

• 1:25:40Tim Ferriss?

  No. Oh, wait, you're talking about Notebook LM?

• 1:25:42Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, Notebook LM. Yeah. Notebook LM is getting better and better. So here's a fun hack. Okay. This is a great one for your audience because they like your productivity, everything. One thing that's really fun is imagine there's something you want to learn that's new. Insert anything. You want to learn how to do basic Pilates, right? Go to ChatGPT or Gemini or whatever else and say, hey, give me a deep research guide on the fundamentals of Pilates. And then you hit go, right? You wait five minutes, whatever. It gives you back a whole script and you copy that, paste it into Notebook Alim and say, "Create me a five-minute podcast on the fundamentals

• 1:26:23Kevin Rose?

  of ploties." And you have an instant podcast primer on that thing. I use that for coding technologies. I've used that for quantum computing. Tim, do you know how quantum computing works? Do you know how gates fold on each other? Like, I didn't.

• 1:26:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:38Kevin Rose?

  And so I dropped that in there and you say, "Explain it like I'm five in a podcast," or not five, but you'd say, "Explain it like I'm a freshman in college."

• 1:26:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:26:47Kevin Rose?

  Fifth grader, whatever. Like I have affentation. I have no way to recall this later. So it gives you this great little podcast and it's a fun little way to learn anything new on the go.

• 1:26:57Tim Ferriss?

  I have to give a plug and I am an investor in this company, but because it came up in a group thread, I don't think he would mind me mentioning this, but our mutual friend, Chris Saka, was like, "My daughter just taught herself about stock trading and this, this, and this." And he took a screenshot and he's like, "She created her own curriculum and da, da, da, da, da." And it was from a startup called OBO. And if people go to OBO, that's O-B-O-E dot F-Y-I, so OBO dot F-Y-I, it just says, "What do you want to learn about?" We'll make you a course. And you literally just type it out and it gives you everything in one place.

• 1:27:35Kevin Rose?

  Now, are you an investor in this?

• 1:27:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'm an investor.

• 1:27:39Kevin Rose?

  Because I noticed you had mentioned before, what was it, and this would be kind of fun for 30 seconds, when you pitched this, because you're very, you say no to a lot of things, which is great, and every investor should. What was it about this that really hooked you in?

• 1:27:52Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, there were a few things, right? So it was the people involved. I had some familiarity with the people involved and I had confidence in their ability to execute. And also, this is what I do, right? In the sense that if I have tried to hone any single skill, it is deconstructing and...

• 1:28:14Tim Ferriss?

  Simplifying complex subjects than putting material in some type of logical sequence, doing 80/20 analysis on kind of the 20% of material that makes the difference. And like the material beats method a lot of the time, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I've thought a lot about this and I was like, all right, the thesis and the mission of the company makes a lot of sense to me. Now, will they be the winner? I have no idea. That is a much harder question and that informs kind of bet sizing and things along those lines. But I have a lot of confidence in the founders. The company itself was introduced to me or the founding team behind it by another founder who's had exits, who is an investor, who's a friend of mine. And I thought to myself,

• 1:28:59Tim Ferriss?

  well, even if this just goes towards creating a product that I myself will use, which is really where I start with a lot of my investing. And sometimes I succeed when I stray from that, but my hit rate is a lot higher when, say, in the case of Uber or Shopify or any of these other It's a core component of yours. These are, I know at least I am a market of one for all of these products and OBO would fall in that category. So that's how I decided to invest. And with these companies, it's also not a bet the farm scenario, at least not for me, right? It's you're creating a portfolio with the recognition that 70, 80% of your investments

• 1:29:41Tim Ferriss?

  are going to go to zero. But I try to look at the, or answer the question, how can I win even if this goes to zero? And how can I win? It's like, well, if I help to in some way support a product and the development of a product that I use myself to learn a bunch of stuff quickly, then given the leverage that I think I can create or find in the world, it's like, wow, if I have a smooth way, an elegant way to learn more about a few different, I'll give you an example, right? If I'm considering, and I've already done this, like if I'm doing due diligence on a company that I can't talk about right now, but it's innovating in biotech and I want to learn as much as possible about different types of mRNA therapeutics. It's like, well,

• 1:30:28Tim Ferriss?

  I'm not coming from a background that enables me to do that. So if I then am able to do due diligence, like 100 times faster, because I'm not sending out 15 emails to people I think might be able to assist, and I might still do that level of due diligence. But if, let's just say that 50K investment allows me to then do due diligence in a way that allows me to place two or three other bets more effectively, it's like I've made my money back, or very likely made my money back. So whether it's with investing or choosing projects like the card game Coyote or anything else, my fundamental underlying question is, can this be a win even if it fails with, let's just say, the primary external metric of sales or exit or whatever it might be?

• 1:31:13Tim Ferriss?

  And if I'm developing skills and relationships that snowball and transcend any single project, then that's a vote in favor of doing something. So that's like oboe.fy, I would kind of fit into that pocket for me. And it made me so happy to see, you know, Sokka's daughter, when it's like, whatever, 12 or 13, like creating her own course, I was like, okay, that's a good sign. That makes me happy.

• 1:31:39Kevin Rose?

  I just clicked on one of the things to create a course for me, and it was pretty cool, because right away it said, do you want this in podcast format, which is seven minutes? Or do you want this in lectured recording, which is 20 minutes? That's awesome. Like that's built into the product from like step one.

• 1:31:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, from step one. And like you said, this is the blocky brick Motorola version, like the

• 1:32:00Kevin Rose?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:00Tim Ferriss?

  The rate of iteration for something like this is going to be so extreme, it's going to be head spinning. So we'll see.

• 1:32:06Kevin Rose?

  Awesome.

• 1:32:07Tim Ferriss?

  But I'm excited about it.

• 1:32:07Kevin Rose?

  All right. The moment you all have been waiting for, Tim's girlfriend.

• 1:32:11Tim Ferriss?

  Come on, dude. Thought I got it.

• 1:32:14Kevin Rose?

  No, no, no, no. People are gonna, they want to know what's up with Tim's personal life.

• 1:32:18Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, look, I'm not going to dox anyone who doesn't opt into being doxed, so I'll skip any identifying particulars, but you know, it's getting serious quickly. She's incredibly sweet, incredibly self-aware, intelligent, and for people who are wondering, of all places met on Hinge, have to kiss a lot of frogs or go on a lot of dates. It's a lot of reps, a lot of swiping, and a lot of noise to get to that point, but it did work.

• 1:32:47Kevin Rose?

  What was the first date like?

• 1:32:49Tim Ferriss?

  First date was Greek food.

• 1:32:52Tim Ferriss?

  Very chill, felt very much, and I pay a lot of attention to this. Like, you know that I have a very sensitive nervous system. And I just immediately felt kind of down-regulated and at ease with her. And that's a lot, that's not a small thing for me. And keeps me on my toes, is very funny, is very good at calling me on my bullshit. So I'm optimistic. We'll see, we'll see. But super, super happy. So doing Thanksgiving together.

• 1:33:26Kevin Rose?

  Wow. And like family introduction time and all that shit?

• 1:33:30Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, she met my family already quite a while ago.

• 1:33:33Kevin Rose?

  I've only met her once. One final question, then I'll let you off the hot box. What is the hardest thing for you at this stage? Because it's like you get to this point where there's this honeymoon phase and then all of a sudden that starts to kind of peel off and it's in the nitty gritty of life. Like, what's the hardest, most challenging part about this next, kind of, I call it six months?

• 1:33:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I have the ability to predict, but my guess would be, I mean, I think this is a, what I'm about to describe is a plight of modern dating in general, at least as I've seen it among my friends and pretty much anyone who I've ever spoken to about this, or if I ever mention kind of modern datings and the app-based dating world. It's such a game of roulette. I mean, the apps are designed to be as addictive as possible. So I think the challenge for almost anyone who is part of that playing field is when things get hard, when things are hard, when you have friction that lasts more than a day or a week.

• 1:34:43Tim Ferriss?

  To stay the course and do the work necessary to resolve that as opposed to just being like, ah, fuck this, I'm just gonna go back to the well.

• 1:34:52Kevin Rose?

  Cause the well's right there.

• 1:34:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:54Kevin Rose?

  It's 20 seconds away in a swipe away, right? That's the downfall of these whole things is it's so easy to move on to the next thing.

• 1:35:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, they are all designed to be, of course, as addictive as possible. And even though they might say they're designed to be deleted, that by definition, since they have a fiduciary responsibility, a legal fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, their business model is entirely dependent on recurring revenue. So they're designed to keep you using the app as long as humanly possible. And I don't blame them for that. That's just the way that this ecosystem works. But it is something to be aware of because you know, they are seductive and they're designed to be seductive, these apps in every way conceivable. So I would say that step number one, take that stuff off your phone.

• 1:35:44Tim Ferriss?

  And then number two is fortunately, I feel like over my last few long relationships, because you know, I've had some very long relationships, five, six years in two cases, that I've developed a toolkit. I can always use more work and more refinement, but do you have the basics of something approximating nonviolent communication? Do you ask for what you want? And do you tell someone if they're doing something that you don't want? These are seem like very obvious, self-evident things you should do, but a lot of people struggle with both of those. And then that breeds resentment or people bottle things up and then they explode and they say things they can't take back. So like, to what extent have you tried to mitigate those things?

• 1:36:29Tim Ferriss?

  Do you have a toolkit, right? There are very good books out there, very good workshops. And I've read a lot of these books and I've gone to a lot of workshops. And as much as I've like, felt like I wanted to poke my eyes out with bicycle spokes at points in these workshops and seminars, because I can only take so much of it. Same. They do help, though. It could be something really small. And there are things you learn along the way, at least I have, as you get older, which is like, you can have almost anything you want in life if you discuss it openly and early. So if you have weaknesses, if you have requests, if you have needs, if you have things that you value that are maybe weirdly out of proportion to most people,

• 1:37:14Tim Ferriss?

  just talking about that stuff early sets the stage for success, or at least communication. So very early on in this relationship, having conversations about conversations, if that makes sense, like having open communication about how we like to communicate, the challenges we have with communication, like how we're going to communicate, biasing towards honesty and being direct, even if you need to do a little bit of cleanup afterwards, has just saved a lot of brain damage. And, you know, in this case, I think we both have very growth-oriented mindsets, where I think both of us are pretty good at taking feedback. And there are times when you're like, you're just too sleep deprived, or pissed off, or bitchy, or irritable, and you're not good at taking feedback.

• 1:37:59Tim Ferriss?

  You're always gonna have those days. But overall, I think we're both eager to improve, and we're good at giving feedback in a way that generally doesn't come off as too holier-than-thou judgmental. So we'll see, we'll see. But, you know, in terms of the challenges, I think the challenges are always, I shouldn't say always, it's a big word, but so much of it just comes down to communication. It's like, do you have the tools? Have you, say, read or listened to Terry Real? Have you both listened or read Terry Real so that you have some scripts or some shared language that you can use as shorthand?

• 1:38:37Kevin Rose?

  Uh, the problem I have with Terry Real is that if it's taken too literally, it can sound formulaic, you know? I'm like, I don't wanna like do the formula, like, let's just talk, you know? It can be a bit-

• 1:38:48Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, here's what I would say about that. I'd say that almost anything that works repeatedly is a formula. And in the beginning, I think it's important, as rote as it might seem, to, let's just say, the book Nonviolent Communication. I think it's Marshall Rosenberg. It's a great book, but after a while, you're like, oh, my God, am I really gonna say again? Like, when you did X, as a video camera would have recorded it, I felt Y. And the story I make up is X-

• 1:39:19Kevin Rose?

  I know, the story I make up kills me.

• 1:39:24Tim Ferriss?

  But here's the thing, I know it kills you-

• 1:39:25Kevin Rose?

  Like, stop saying the story I make up, like-

• 1:39:28Tim Ferriss?

  But here's the thing, but here's the thing. It's, as much as you might hate it, what you would hate more is Kevin, I fucking hate when you do X, it makes me feel Y because you always do Z, right? Like, that's worse, I think, right? Like, you might be like, ah, with the formula, but the amount of damage you can do when you veer completely away from it is a lot, right? And then, once you have the basic mastery or fluency with the formula, then you can deviate, right?

• 1:40:01Kevin Rose?

  Right, right.

• 1:40:01Tim Ferriss?

  Then you can start to deviate. But for instance, I mean, Terry, as any couples therapist will, has certain frameworks and formulas. But there are also underlying philosophical principles that I think apply to a million different things that are outside of formulas. And I'll give you an example. So one thing that Terry says, and I think this is in Fierce Intimacy, which is an audiobook, you can't find a print version of it. I highly recommend it to folks. And the point he makes is, it's real simple. Objective reality has no place in a relationship. Now, what the hell does that mean?

• 1:40:41Tim Ferriss?

  What that means is, you know, if you're out at dinner and then the waiter comes over and the wife orders and then the waiter walks away and the husband's like, you know, honey, you don't need to yell at him. And she's like, I wasn't yelling. And then it turns into like a whole bullshit argument about whether she was yelling or not. Like if the husband were to say, well, honey, actually, I hired a professional audiologist with the latest cutting edge technology and recording equipment and they're sitting right at the table next to us. And if we accept the commonly defined threshold for yelling at XYZ decibels, if you look at these numbers, you can see that in fact, you were by scientific definition yelling. Like, is that going to fix the problem? No, it's going to be a huge fucking mess.

• 1:41:26Tim Ferriss?

  Right? And so his point is the stories matter and like the subjective matters. And shorthand for that is like objective, he may not word it exactly this way, but like objective reality just doesn't have a place in, let's just say, an argument. And we're gonna make mistakes occasionally, especially someone like me is going to try to appeal to some objective measure of god knows what. But if you can just postpone that judgment, even for a minute or two, it just makes a world of difference. You know, maybe it makes me sound like I'm really remedial in the EQ communication department. I actually don't think that's true. I think I'm pretty good.

• 1:42:10Tim Ferriss?

  It's like going to the gym. It's like playing pool or shooting archery or whatever. It's like you can't just, it's not a one and done thing. If you don't practice these things, you will revert to whatever your parents did, period. And like, I don't want to model that. That was a goddamn mess.

• 1:42:29Kevin Rose?

  Yeah. I've found that if my partner gets upset, just kind of like sitting down and saying, calm down, it's huge. It just works every time.

• 1:42:40Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:41Kevin Rose?

  It just, or you're being like your mother. Like those are things that like are just really, you know, just home runs.

• 1:42:48Tim Ferriss?

  Why are you so hysterical like your mother? Yeah.

• 1:42:51Kevin Rose?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:53Tim Ferriss?

  Works like a charm. I think that's Terry Real's second principle.

• 1:42:57Kevin Rose?

  Yeah. Just say, calm down and then you're good. You're good. They'll be like, oh, I was being so crazy. I, you're right. I should just calm down.

• 1:43:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. And you know, I think also not just expecting there to be bumps. There are always going to be bumps and you know, we'll see, we'll see. But yeah, it's been great so far. I feel super, super lucky, really, really fortunate because there's a

• 1:43:23Kevin Rose?

  Yeah. I mean, you only date supermodels, so you should feel lucky. I've met her. You have a supermodel on your hands. So it's great.

• 1:43:31Tim Ferriss?

  Very, very pretty, but she's also very, very smart, knows how to adult, knows how to take care of things in the world, right? I mean, which isn't asking too much, but it's surprising how many like aspiring stay at home girlfriends you can find out there who have no intention of operating in the world. So I feel very, very lucky, super, super fortunate.

• 1:43:54Kevin Rose?

  Well, I'm excited for you, dude. Can't wait to spend some more time with her. Our first interactions were great. I'm excited to get to know her better.

• 1:44:00Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, she's incredibly kind, not a malicious bone in her body, but at the same time,

• 1:44:08Tim Ferriss?

  hilariously blunt in some cases, and sometimes not so hilariously blunt, but you know, I'll take, it's a package deal.

• 1:44:14Kevin Rose?

  You, you got a bit of that too, though, right?

• 1:44:16Tim Ferriss?

  I got some of that. Yeah, I do too. Yeah, I've got some of that for sure.

• 1:44:20Kevin Rose?

  I've known enough of your ex-girlfriends to know that you got a little bit of that.

• 1:44:24Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I got a little bit of that. It's true. Oh, man. Well, that's, I think I've probably checked the box of talking about the girlfriend.

• 1:44:33Kevin Rose?

  Yeah. Awesome.

• 1:44:34Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. We're gonna have dinner very shortly and happy Thanksgiving, man.

• 1:44:39Kevin Rose?

  Yeah. Happy Thanksgiving. Yeah. See, the only thing on my side, just to bring people up to speed on is I have a new tech podcast that I'm very excited about that I'm going to launch in the new year. And so kevinrose.com for my four bullet Friday, which is

• 1:44:56Kevin Rose?

  Much faster read. No, I don't. I only put out like one email every month and a half or every, but it's always packed with like the latest AI stuff I'm playing with, all that stuff. Anyway, that's my only plug of the show is kevinrose.com for the newsletter.

• 1:45:09Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, check it out. Check it out, folks. We'll hit New Year's resolutions and stuff. Next time we do a random show.

• 1:45:15Kevin Rose?

  Let's do it.

• 1:45:15Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, we'll do that because I need to dust mine off and blow the film that has settled on those and look at them in higher resolution. So I could use a little extra time and we'll

• 1:45:25Kevin Rose?

  Love it.

• 1:45:26Tim Ferriss?

  We'll get after it.

• 1:45:26Kevin Rose?

  Love you, brother. Always good to see you. Thanks for sharing more of the, the personal side with us. I, everybody gets a kick out of that and it's always fun to hear your adventures. But I'm excited for you marching forward. I have good vibes about this one. So.

• 1:45:38Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, thanks, man. It's a fucking jungle out there. It's like.

• 1:45:41Kevin Rose?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:42Tim Ferriss?

  The modern dating is a, uh, it is simultaneously so fun if you like hit your groove

• 1:45:52Tim Ferriss?

  in a playing the field kind of way, but it's also so incredibly exhausting and frustrating and can be very demoralizing.

• 1:45:59Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, I don't feel bad for you. Honestly, like I've, I've gotten some of your texts. I think you had a damn good run, brother.

• 1:46:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying I feel most at home, at ease, at peace when I am with my current girlfriend and it's just, it's qualitatively a world of difference from just running around like, you know, some horny bastard with his hair on fire. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but.

• 1:46:31Kevin Rose?

  Yeah, not that there's any hair left, but yeah.

• 1:46:34Tim Ferriss?

  Not there's any hair left. And also just be aware, like whether you're on X or Instagram, but especially on the dating apps because it is selling sex and things that are hardwired to hijack your attention. Like your faculties are being.

• 1:46:53Tim Ferriss?

  Exploited to the maximum degree possible. And it's just something to be aware of, you know, like really check your state before and after using these things to determine how much you might want to use them, or if you want to put safeguards around how long you spend on these things. All right. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

• 1:47:10Kevin Rose?

  Cool, brother. Love you very much. Please give a hug to Daria and the girls for me. Will do. And Same on my side. How's Molly doing? Molly's good?

• 1:47:20Tim Ferriss?

  Molly's great. Yeah, Molly's doing great.

• 1:47:23Kevin Rose?

  How old is Molly now?

• 1:47:24Tim Ferriss?

  Molly's 10. I'm actually going to adopt a puppy. Going to get a second dog next month. Super excited.

• 1:47:30Kevin Rose?

  Toaster is 15. You saw him when you came to the house.

• 1:47:32Tim Ferriss?

  I did.

• 1:47:33Kevin Rose?

  But isn't he moving slower? It's hard to watch.

• 1:47:36Tim Ferriss?

  Well, he was also had just come from the vet and his paw was all taped up and he was drunk out of his mind.

• 1:47:41Kevin Rose?

  I know.

• 1:47:42Tim Ferriss?

  When I saw him. Yeah, 15. Just getting up there.

• 1:47:45Kevin Rose?

  I know. We gave him Rappa, so I'm hoping for, I mean, we've already seen the kind of 20% boost in lifespan, so.

• 1:47:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah, I need to get Molly on Rappa. That's going to be one of my tasks for December as well. One step at a time.

• 1:47:58Kevin Rose?

  Awesome. All right, brother.

• 1:47:59Tim Ferriss?

  Brother. Great to see you, bud. And everybody listening, you can go to the show notes. We'll have links to everything at tim.blog/podcast/randomshow. Just look for the newest one and we'll have it for you. So happy holidays, everybody. Thanks for tuning in.

• 1:48:15Kevin Rose?

  Happy holidays.

• 1:48:16Tim Ferriss?

  I'll see you soon, Kevin. Take care, bud.

• 1:48:18Kevin Rose?

  Peace.

• 1:48:20Tim Ferriss?

  Hey, guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests.

• 1:49:03Tim Ferriss?

  And these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog/friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog/friday, drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening. Sleep is the key to it all. It is the foundation. Many of you heard me talk about how today's sponsor, Eight Sleep, has improved my sleep with its Pod cover. Pod5 introduces Eight Sleep's latest product, the blanket, which uses the same technology as the Pod's cover, to extend

• 1:49:45Tim Ferriss?

  temperature regulation across the entire body. On average, members report the Pod has helped them fall asleep 44% faster, 34% deeper sleep, and given them up to one added hour of sleep each night. Also, the Pod's snoring detection and automatic elevating platform have reduced user snoring by 45%. You'll also get a personalized report each morning, allowing you to track your sleep stages, heart rate variability, respiratory rate, and more, all without having any devices strapped onto you. And from now until December 31st, listeners get $400 off the Pod 5 Ultra. You can try it at home for 30 days and return it if you don't like it. Just go to eightsleep.com/tim for $400 off. Shipping is available to many countries

• 1:50:30Tim Ferriss?

  worldwide. eightsleep.com/tim. You know that move when you hold your phone at an arm's length just to try to read a message? You squint, you try to get even further away. Does that sound familiar? If so, you may have presbyopia, or age-related blurry near vision. Luckily, we now have an option beyond reading glasses. I suffer from presbyopia. It is not fun. So, I'm excited to introduce you to this episode's sponsor, Closey, Q-L-O-S-I, an FDA-approved prescription eyedrop, designed to improve your near vision and help you see things up close more clearly. With once-or-twice daily dosing, packaged in single-dose vials, Closey fits into your pocket. to your routine and is ready when you need it.

• 1:51:15Tim Ferriss?

  In clinical studies, people could read letters in the eye chart, equivalent to reading menus, recipes, and phone screens, with fast-acting, near-vision improvement often starting in just 20 minutes. Most side effects in studies were mild and short-lived, including eye discomfort and headaches in 5% to 8% of users. So, give those readers a break and ask your eye doctor if Qlosi is right for you. Visit Qlosi.com/Tim to find an eye doctor along with full prescribing information. And that's Q-L-O-S-I dot com slash Tim. One more time, Q-L-O-S-I dot com slash Tim.