#622: A Rare In-Person Random Show with Kevin Rose — VR Workouts, I Bonds, Excellent Movies, Recent Books, Lessons from Amy Tan, How to Shape Your Mind, and More

A Rare In-Person Random Show with Kevin Rose — VR Workouts, I Bonds, Excellent Movies, Recent Books, Lessons from Amy Tan, How to Shape Your Mind, and More | Brought to you by Athletic Greens http://athleticgreens.com/tim all-in-one nutritional supplement, Wealthfront http://wealthfront.com/tim‘s high-yield savings account, and Shopify http://shopify.com/tim global commerce platform providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business. More on all three below. Technologist, serial entrepreneur, world-class investor, self-experimenter, and all-around wild and crazy guy Kevin Rose (@KevinRose https://www.instagram.com/kevinrose/) rejoins me for another episode of The Random Show. In this one, we discuss conspirituality, opening the doors of perception with prescription and meditation, movies we've been enjoying, fictional world-building, high-interest I bonds, lessons from Amy Tan, full-body MRI scans, Austin vs. San Francisco, why I refrain from "gotcha" interviews on this show, and much, much more. Please enjoy! * This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim. I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim by Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. Right now, Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product. * This episode is also brought to you by Shopify http://shopify.com/tim! Shopify http://shopify.com/tim is one of my favorite platforms and one of my favorite companies. Shopify http://shopify.com/tim is designed for anyone to sell anywhere, giving entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business. In no time flat, you can have a great looking online store that brings your ideas to life, and you can have the tools to manage your day-to-day and drive sales. No coding or design experience required. More than a store, Shopify grows with you. And they never stop innovating, providing more and more tools to make your business better and your life easier. Go to Shopify.com/Tim for a FREE TRIAL and get full access to Shopify’s entire suite of features http://shopify.com/tim. * This episode is also brought to you by Wealthfront http://wealthfront.com/tim! Wealthfront is an app that helps you save and invest your money. Right now, you can earn two percent APY—that’s the Annual Percentage Yield—with the Wealthfront Cash Account http://wealthfront.com/tim. That’s twenty times more interest than if you left your money in a savings account at the average bank, according to FDIC.gov. It takes just a few minutes to sign up, and then you’ll immediately start earning two-percent interest on your savings. And when you open an account today, you’ll get an extra fifty dollar bonus http://wealthfront.com/tim with a deposit of five hundred dollars or more. Visit Wealthfront.com/Tim http://wealthfront.com/tim to get started. * [05:35] Why we’re recording this in Los Angeles. [09:40] What are we drinking? [12:06] Why I aim for evergreen interviews over gotchas on this show. [21:51] Where Kevin wants me to take this show. [23:35] Scenes: Austin vs. San Francisco. [25:55] I did not start the conspirituality. [32:17] Opening the doors of perception with prescription and meditation. [38:34] Movies we’ve been watching. [50:18] A peek into my world-building, fictional foray. [56:13] Are we too old for podcasting? [57:18] Should you buy I bonds right now? (Reminder: not financial advice!) [59:46] Lessons from Amy Tan. [1:02:27] How we get suckered into paying for services we haven’t used in years. [1:03:30] Fat, bald, and bastardly is no way to go through life, son. [1:05:44] Supernatural fitness: the only thing Kevin likes about VR. [1:07:06] Why you might want to consider getting a full-body MRI scan. [1:11:44] Mind over matter. [1:17:48] What the current state of medicine hints about its future. [1:25:27] Parting thoughts. * For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors http://tim.blog/podcast-sponsors Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts http://tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books http://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss http://linkedin.com/in/timferriss Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast include Jerry Seinfeld https://tim.blog/2020/12/08/jerry-seinfeld/, Hugh Jackman https://tim.blog/2020/06/26/hugh-jackman/, Dr. Jane Goodall https://tim.blog/2020/04/16/jane-goodall/, LeBron James https://tim.blog/2018/11/27/lebron-james-mike-mancias/, Kevin Hart https://tim.blog/2020/05/20/kevin-hart/, Doris Kearns Goodwin https://tim.blog/2018/09/07/doris-kearns-goodwin-leadership/, Jamie Foxx https://tim.blog/2015/12/06/jamie-foxx/, Matthew McConaughey https://tim.blog/2020/10/19/matthew-mcconaughey/, Esther Perel https://tim.blog/2017/05/21/esther-perel/, Elizabeth Gilbert https://tim.blog/2020/05/08/elizabeth-gilbert/, Terry Crews https://tim.blog/2017/12/20/terry-crews-how-to-have-do-and-be-all-you-want/, Sia https://tim.blog/2020/08/12/sia/, Yuval Noah Harari https://tim.blog/2020/10/27/yuval-noah-harari/, Malcolm Gladwell https://tim.blog/2016/06/21/malcolm-gladwell/, Madeleine Albright https://tim.blog/2020/05/27/secretary-madeleine-albright/, Cheryl Strayed https://tim.blog/2017/03/30/cheryl-strayed/, Jim Collins https://tim.blog/2019/02/18/jim-collins/, Mary Karr, https://tim.blog/2020/11/11/mary-karr/ Maria Popova https://tim.blog/2014/10/21/brain-pickings/, Sam Harris https://tim.blog/2020/05/15/sam-harris-2/, Michael Phelps https://tim.blog/2021/01/21/michael-phelps-grant-hackett/, Bob Iger https://tim.blog/2020/01/16/bob-iger/, Edward Norton https://tim.blog/2019/10/31/edward-norton-motherless-brooklyn/, Arnold Schwarzenegger https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/, Neil Strauss https://tim.blog/2014/06/24/neil-strauss/, Ken Burns https://tim.blog/2019/09/12/ken-burns/, Maria Sharapova https://tim.blog/2017/08/26/maria-sharapova/, Marc Andreessen https://tim.blog/2016/05/29/marc-andreessen/, Neil Gaiman https://tim.blog/2019/03/28/neil-gaiman/, Neil de Grasse Tyson https://tim.blog/2019/10/03/neil-degrasse-tyson/, Jocko Willink https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/, Daniel Ek https://tim.blog/2020/12/03/daniel-ek/, Kelly Slater https://tim.blog/2020/09/08/kelly-slater/, Dr. Peter Attia https://tim.blog/2019/11/27/peter-attia-fasting-metformin-longevity/, Seth Godin https://tim.blog/2016/02/10/seth-godin/, Howard Marks https://tim.blog/2018/09/25/howard-marks/, Dr. Brené Brown https://tim.blog/2020/02/06/brene-brown-striving-self-acceptance-saving-marriages/, Eric Schmidt https://tim.blog/2019/04/09/eric-schmidt/, Michael Lewis https://tim.blog/2020/05/01/michael-lewis/, Joe Gebbia https://tim.blog/2018/03/08/joe-gebbia-co-founder-of-airbnb/, Michael Pollan https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-your-mind/, Dr. Jordan Peterson https://tim.blog/2021/03/01/jordan-peterson/, Vince Vaughn https://tim.blog/2017/05/31/vince-vaughn/, Brian Koppelman https://tim.blog/2020/04/23/brian-koppelman/, Ramit Sethi https://tim.blog/2019/05/07/ramit-sethi/, Dax Shepard https://tim.blog/2020/11/18/dax-shepard/, Tony Robbins https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/, Jim Dethmer https://tim.blog/2020/05/18/jim-dethmer/, Dan Harris https://tim.blog/2020/11/19/dan-harris/, Ray Dalio https://tim.blog/2017/09/13/ray-dalio/, Naval Ravikant https://tim.blog/2015/08/18/the-evolutionary-angel-naval-ravikant/, Vitalik Buterin https://tim.blog/2021/03/08/vitalik-buterin-naval-ravikant/, Elizabeth Lesser https://tim.blog/2021/03/16/elizabeth-lesser/, Amanda Palmer https://tim.blog/2019/04/18/amanda-palmer-2/, Katie Haun https://tim.blog/2021/02/18/katie-haun/, Sir Richard Branson https://tim.blog/2017/10/09/richard-branson/, Chuck Palahniuk https://tim.blog/2020/09/02/chuck-palahniuk/, Arianna Huffington https://tim.blog/2017/10/18/arianna-huffington/, Reid Hoffman https://tim.blog/2015/08/31/the-oracle-of-silicon-valley-reid-hoffman-plus-michael-mccullough/, Bill Burr https://tim.blog/2017/09/17/bill-burr/, Whitney Cummings https://tim.blog/2015/06/26/whitney-cummings/, Rick Rubin https://tim.blog/2015/05/15/rick-rubin/, Dr. Vivek Murthy https://tim.blog/2020/03/26/vivek-murthy/, Darren Aronofsky https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/, Margaret Atwood https://tim.blog/2022/02/22/margaret-atwood/, Mark Zuckerberg https://tim.blog/2022/03/24/mark-zuckerberg/, Peter Thiel https://tim.blog/2014/09/09/peter-thiel/, Dr. Gabor Maté https://tim.blog/2018/02/20/gabor-mate/, Anne Lamott https://tim.blog/2021/07/09/anne-lamott/, Sarah Silverman https://tim.blog/2022/01/12/sarah-silverman/, Dr. Andrew Huberman https://tim.blog/2021/07/06/andrew-huberman/, and many more. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time what I would take if I could only take one supplement. I've been asked this for years. The answer is invariably AG1 by Athletic Greens. I view it as all-in-one nutritional insurance. So you can cover your bases. If you're traveling, if you're just busy, if you're not sure if your meals are where they should be, it covers your bases. I've recommended it since The Four Hour Body, which was, God, eons ago, 2010, and I did not get paid to do so. With approximately 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food sourced ingredients, you'll be hard pressed to find a more nutrient-dense formula on the market. It has a multivitamin, multimineral, greens complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut health and immunity

• 0:44Tim Ferriss?

  formula, digestive enzymes, and adaptogens. You get the idea. It is very, very comprehensive. And I do my best, of course, to focus on nutrient-dense, proper meals. But sometimes you're busy, sometimes you're traveling, sometimes you just want to make sure that you're getting what you need. AG1 makes it easy to get a lot of nutrition when whole foods aren't readily available. It's also NSF certified for sport, making it safe for competitive athletes, as what's on the label is in the powder. It's the ultimate all-in-one nutritional supplement bundle in one easy scoop. Right now Athletic Greens is giving my audience a special offer on top of their all-in-one

• 1:24Tim Ferriss?

  formula, which is a free vitamin D supplement and five free travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Many of us are deficient in vitamin D. I've found that true for myself, which is usually produced in our bodies from sun exposure. So adding a vitamin D supplement to your daily routine is a great option for additional immune support. Support your immunity, gut health, and energy by visiting athleticgreens.com/tim. You'll receive up to a year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your subscription. Again, that's athleticgreens.com/tim.

• 2:02Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Shopify is one of my favorite companies out there, one of my favorite platforms ever. And let's get into it. Shopify is a platform, as I mentioned, designed for anyone to sell anything, anywhere, giving entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business. So what does that mean? That means in no time flat, you can have a great looking online store that brings your ideas, products, and so on to life. And you can have the tools to manage your day to day business and drive sales. This is all possible without any coding or design experience whatsoever. Shopify instantly lets you accept all major payment methods. Shopify has thousands of integrations and third-party apps from on-demand printing to accounting to advanced chatbots, anything you can imagine.

• 2:47Tim Ferriss?

  They probably have a way to plug and play and make it happen. Shopify is what I wish I had had when I was venturing into e-commerce way back in the early 2000s. What they've done is pretty remarkable. I first met the founder, Toby, in 2008 when I became an advisor, and it's been spectacular. I've loved watching Shopify go from roughly 10 to 15 employees at the time to 7,000 plus today, serving customers in 175 countries with total sales on the platform exceeding $400 billion. But what does that really mean? That means every 28 seconds, more or less, a small business owner makes their first sale on Shopify. More people in more places of all ages every single day.

• 3:29Tim Ferriss?

  They power millions of entrepreneurs from their first sale all the way to full scale. And you would recognize a lot of large companies that also use them who started small. So get started by building and customizing your online store, again, with no coding or design experience required. Access powerful tools to help you find customers, drive sales, and manage your day to day. Gain knowledge and confidence with extensive resources to help you succeed. And I've actually been involved with some of that way back in the day, which was awesome, the Build a Business competition and other things. Plus, with 24/7 support, you're never alone. And let's face it, being an entrepreneur can be lonely, but you have support, you have resources, you don't need to

• 4:10Tim Ferriss?

  Feel alone in this case, more than a store Shopify grows with you and they never stop innovating, providing more and more tools to make your business better and your life easier. Go to Shopify.com slash Tim. That's S H O P I F Y dot com slash Tim. All lowercase for a free trial and get full access to Shopify's entire suite of features. Start selling on Shopify today. Go to Shopify.com slash Tim right now and check it out. They have a lot to offer. Shopify.com slash Tim.

• 4:44Tim Ferriss?

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a personal question?

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Now would be seen appropriate time.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 5:07Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode, a very fun episode of the Tim Ferriss Show. This is another edition of the Random Show with my friend Kevin Rose. Who is Kevin Rose? He's a technologist, serial entrepreneur, world-class investor, self-experimenter and all-around wild and crazy guy. You can find him at Kevin Rose on Twitter. I'll keep it short at that. Please enjoy.

• 5:36Tim Ferriss?

  Cheers, Kevin.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Cheers.

• 5:37Tim Ferriss?

  Good to see you. Clink, clink. So where are we and what are we drinking?

• 5:41Speaker 03

  Are you supposed to say, "Welcome to the show" and shit? You're already hammered?

• 5:44Tim Ferriss?

  I'm not already hammered. I just feel like in my current state of mind and affairs of skipping the preamble, skipping all the foreplay.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  Going straight in.

• 5:55Tim Ferriss?

  You know, if my audience has been with me for 700 of these, I'm like, you know, you guys are probably pretty limbered up by now.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Limbered?

• 6:04Tim Ferriss?

  Limbered up.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  Love it.

• 6:06Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Welcome to the Tim Ferriss Show, everybody. This is a special edition, Random Show. Been a few months at least.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  I know. It's good to see you. We're actually next to each other.

• 6:16Tim Ferriss?

  I know.

• 6:16Speaker 03

  If you're watching the video, we are sitting next to each other on my floor, which is crazy.

• 6:22Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, this is old school. I like it.

• 6:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:24Tim Ferriss?

  In front of a recording couch.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  Does my audio sound weird to you? Listen to this.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  That sounds weird to you. Test one, two, three. Hello, hello. How's it going? Does that sound weird? Watch. Say.

• 6:38Tim Ferriss?

  Talk, talk, talk.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. You sound good, right?

• 6:42Tim Ferriss?

  Doesn't sound weird. You don't, you don't sound weird.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 6:44Tim Ferriss?

  Actually, yeah, you know, when I get close.

• 6:46Speaker 03

  You're pretty close.

• 6:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. If I talk right now, I'm getting a huge gain blowback on my voice, but not yours.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 6:55Tim Ferriss?

  So maybe it's just a.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Like the headphone thing?

• 6:58Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  All right.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Sorry, people.

• 7:01Tim Ferriss?

  We're gonna leave all that in.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  That's actually pretty funny.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  People will be like, what the fuck are these guys doing? All right.

• 7:12Tim Ferriss?

  I'm investing in tequila, folks, not in editing. Just kidding. Half.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  So we are actually in my new apartment in Los Angeles. We're sitting on the floor in front of a little table here. Yeah, I'm in LA now. I moved.

• 7:28Tim Ferriss?

  Why did you move to LA?

• 7:29Speaker 03

  You know, a lot of things going on.

• 7:31Tim Ferriss?

  Because since COVID, everybody from LA has moved to Austin.

• 7:33Speaker 03

  Is that true?

• 7:34Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, a lot of, a lot of people have moved.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  I know a lot of people moved to Austin. You know, it was one of those things where I was in Portland, Oregon for a few years. Loved it. Beautiful, beautiful place. Rains a lot. Not a lot of friends. And so it was hard because we're in the middle of nowhere. And it's actually just kind of depressing, like rain and no friends with COVID combined.

• 7:53Tim Ferriss?

  Now, when you moved there, I have to say, I was like, who does Kevin know in that area?

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I knew a couple of people and one of them moved and I had a couple of the friends and then one of them had a baby and, you know, with COVID and everything, you're like, you don't get around the new baby and all that stuff.

• 8:09Tim Ferriss?

  Right.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  It was tough, but my family was out there. My mom's out there. You know, my sisters are still out there and just decided, hey, let's get away from them.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Honestly, with all the NFT stuff going on and the majority of my calls were either LA or New York that I was having work-wise.

• 8:26Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 03

  And so why not get down to where everything is happening? And so the choice, we weren't going to go to New York because it's just winter time, New York.

• 8:34Tim Ferriss?

  You've already done New York also.

• 8:35Speaker 03

  And I have two kids and it's like, New York's harder with kids.

• 8:38Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, so LA. Why is New York harder with kids? I mean, when the snow is like

• 8:42Speaker 03

  I see, I got it.

• 8:43Tim Ferriss?

  The winters.

• 8:44Speaker 03

  The winters and, you know, there's also traffic. Like, I remember when I was out in New York and I was watching.

• 8:50Tim Ferriss?

  I'm just laughing because I just spent three hours in traffic driving from San Diego to Los Angeles.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  There's a difference.

• 8:56Tim Ferriss?

  It's fucking terrible.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  There's a difference between like LA's stop and go freeway traffic and like you're watching these kids. And I saw this happen where they make them all hold hands when they're crossing the street, of course.

• 9:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 03

  And then like a taxi comes flying around, you know, at a million miles an hour and almost like wipes out of. I'm just, I just kind of freak out.

• 9:15Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  When we have the dad hat on with the kids, I'm like, I don't want to have to worry about that stuff.

• 9:21Tim Ferriss?

  Right, got it.

• 9:21Speaker 03

  And so this is, and I know there's more neighborhood-y stuff and there's, there's areas of New York where we definitely could have made it work. But I don't know, West Coast, I'm, I'm still, my mom, you know, she's up there, she's in her eighties, she's undergoing cancer treatments. I want to be on this coast. I can bounce up in a second if I need to. So, you know, made sense.

• 9:38Tim Ferriss?

  That makes sense.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:40Tim Ferriss?

  All right. So, sitting on the floor with a beverage in hand. That's a great question because this is something of yours. I am keeping it simple and having some tequila, missing a little bit of Texas perhaps. Dos Artes 100% agave blanco. I wanted something that would maybe be less likely to donkey punch me in the head hangover wise. And so I chose this as much for the blanco

• 10:09Speaker 03

  Beautiful bottle, right?

• 10:09Tim Ferriss?

  As for the bottle itself. I mean, the actual ceramic container is gorgeous.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  This is one of our, our favorite tequilas. I gotta say a big thank you to Aneesh, who introduced me to this tequila, bought me a bottle of this as a birthday gift or something. It just blew my mind. So, really good, not crazy expensive, like middle of the road kind of world, but just awesome tequila.

• 10:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I have no idea. Just for the bottle alone, I'm imagining this costs a fair amount to make. Just true for a lot of the premium alcohols, like you're paying. 20% of the price or 30% of the price for the glass or the crystal or whatever you're actually not keeping, most likely. So what are you drinking?

• 10:50Speaker 03

  I am having a little bit of champagne, just because my wife bought a bottle and we opened it. I am drinking a really douchey champagne. It's not douchey, but it's like, is can I just say that on your podcast?

• 11:01Tim Ferriss?

  You can say whatever you want.

• 11:02Speaker 03

  Okay, so it's, um, this is the funny thing. Daria came back from the champagne store, which grocery store. She was like, I saved $300. And I'm like, cool. What'd you get? We don't ever drink this champagne, but there was apparently a sale on something called Ace of Spades, which is Jay-Z champagne. It's actually quite good. It's actually quite good.

• 11:24Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I was just laughing because as soon as you mentioned that before we were recording and I was like, and you also have a red wine with Snoop Dogg's face on it. That's your sink. I'm like, what is Tupac, uh, you know, grass fed butter? What's that?

• 11:39Speaker 03

  So we, so they're not too far away from us is, um, a grocery store that basically has Snoop Dogg's wine. And it's like, kind of like a table wine and Daria needs it for cooking. So she bought Snoop Dogg's. It was like a six, it was like, well, I think $10 bottle of wine.

• 11:54Tim Ferriss?

  I don't judge the cost of Snoop Dogg's table wine. I just thought, I thought there were going to be, there was going to be more to that.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  That's it, basically.

• 12:01Tim Ferriss?

  And how is it?

• 12:03Speaker 03

  It's quite good. Very dry. Fantastic. So cheers. Good to see you, man.

• 12:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. It's been a long time since we've done one of these in person.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  I know. It reminds me of the old school episodes that we used to do.

• 12:12Tim Ferriss?

  Do these all the time in San Francisco.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:14Tim Ferriss?

  And even with the glass background, it makes me think of one of your places in San Francisco.

• 12:20Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 12:21Tim Ferriss?

  Where all those people showed up angry.

• 12:23Speaker 03

  Well, the protesters.

• 12:24Tim Ferriss?

  The protesters.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:25Tim Ferriss?

  That place, that, that particular place.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Have you been protested yet?

• 12:28Tim Ferriss?

  I have not been protested yet.

• 12:31Speaker 03

  It's interesting.

• 12:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Well, I.

• 12:32Speaker 03

  I think that's going to happen actually with your secret thing you're working on.

• 12:36Tim Ferriss?

  Oh God, I'm not sure. People's imaginations really go wild with what horrible thing I'm concocting. But I have not been protested. I'll take the counterpoint, and this is, I don't want to give him credit because I don't know if he would want it, but a friend of mine who has this theory, and I tend to agree with it, that people are going to be 10% less famous every year if they're already a public figure. If they're not in rapid ascension, if they're not exploding, and even if they are, if we go over a longer timeframe, I think it's one thing to be popular on TikTok for a month.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  You're on TikTok, right?

• 13:13Tim Ferriss?

  I'm not. It's quite a different thing to be popular for like 10 years on 20 years.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:17Tim Ferriss?

  And I just think that is going to become harder and harder to do.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  Because there'll be more of a pool of people that'll be.

• 13:24Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:25Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, the internet is just.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  I mean, just the young kids coming up on you.

• 13:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, and I'm okay with it. I'm tired.

• 13:31Speaker 03

  Are you done?

• 13:32Tim Ferriss?

  I think I'm like that NHL player where they're like, oh, wow, yeah, no, God, given how many injuries he's had, he's doing pretty well out there, limping along on the ice.

• 13:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, but let me, let me.

• 13:41Tim Ferriss?

  God bless him. He's giving it a good college try.

• 13:43Speaker 03

  Have, have another.

• 13:43Tim Ferriss?

  I don't want to be that guy.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Have another sip here, Tequila, because I have a serious question to ask you here. Tell me, that was a really intense sip on the microphone. It's like.

• 13:54Tim Ferriss?

  That's why I don't wear a headset. I don't have to worry about it.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  It was very intense. So, um, you don't want to go for Rogan. You want to take him out? Like, you could, you could, you could go for it.

• 14:05Tim Ferriss?

  No, he's one.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Is he one?

• 14:08Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, for sure he's one. Yeah, no, that doesn't even enter my mind, honestly.

• 14:12Speaker 03

  Really?

• 14:12Tim Ferriss?

  Does not even.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  You have to have like a live studio and shit because, because a lot of it has to do with that, like live presence.

• 14:18Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, he is a, he's a television professional. I mean, he's very good interviewer. He's a very good commentator. He's very comfortable in front of a camera and is an excellent storyteller.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:30Tim Ferriss?

  He's, he's got to be five to 10 times bigger than his runner up in terms of size for interview format podcasts.

• 14:41Speaker 03

  You gotta be up there with him.

• 14:42Tim Ferriss?

  I'm up there. I mean, I'm up there, but you have to understand that there's Rogan and then there's, like, if it were the Tour de France, there'd be like one guy. 10 miles ahead.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:51Tim Ferriss?

  And then there'd be a pack of.

• 14:52Speaker 03

  He's like the guy on roids.

• 14:53Tim Ferriss?

  Then there'd be four.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  No, I don't mean he's on roids. I mean, like in terms of his, his like.

• 14:59Tim Ferriss?

  I think, yes. I mean, it's as if you then have a cohort of folks, they're like four or five, maybe. We're like spread out over 200 yards. And so there is maybe a popularity sequence to it, but they're 10 miles behind.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:15Tim Ferriss?

  The person in, in first place. So I don't even, I don't think about competing at all in that sense.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  The other thing though, too, is like, I feel like his content, he's really good.

• 15:26Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's great.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  Getting the spicy shit on, right? Like he'll have the spicy guest on, he knows how to push the buttons. And I feel like you have, you have like fantastic intellectual conversations, but I don't know that you push the, the agenda of like, normal celebrity for the sake of like.

• 15:42Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 15:43Speaker 03

  Stir up the pot a bit, you know?

• 15:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, no, I don't, I don't have the endurance for it. And he really enjoys so many different formats. He, he is Joe Rogan, meaning Joe Rogan is the best version of Joe Rogan. And I think anyone who looks at what Joe does and says, I'm going to do that and I'm going to do that better. And I'm going to be bigger is foolish. I think that's a terrible idea.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, no shit.

• 16:06Tim Ferriss?

  And Joe has tremendous endurance, I think, in part because he has chosen formats and ways of communicating and ways of presenting visually that it seems he really enjoys.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:23Tim Ferriss?

  So if somebody tries to force fit themselves into that game.

• 16:27Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:28Tim Ferriss?

  They're going to lose.

• 16:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. You both had Zuckerberg on the show.

• 16:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 16:31Speaker 03

  You, maybe three months before him, four months, something like that. Behind the scenes, how much prepping do they give you of like, don't ask Mark this, like, what's that like?

• 16:43Tim Ferriss?

  They, meaning his team. Were extremely easy to deal with for me.

• 16:49Speaker 03

  Did they say like this question is off, off limits like, don't ask Mark about his?

• 16:53Tim Ferriss?

  They didn't. I gave them, as I give every guest, final cut. So there wasn't a lot of talk about prohibited topics or anything like that. And did you go easy on him? I wouldn't say I went easy. There's something that people should know if they don't already about the show and deliberate decisions that I make so that I enjoy the format in the same way that I think Joe does it with him, it's his format.

• 17:22Tim Ferriss?

  And anyone who has, I think tremendous in podcast years longevity, which would be at least five or 10, finds the format that they're best at. It's just like different shaped athletes in different sports.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:36Tim Ferriss?

  And in the case of my podcast, I made the decision really early on, I don't want to have a gotcha show. There are many other people who are going to do that better than I will because they enjoy it. I don't. For example, as much as I respect Mike Wallace, I don't need to be Mike Wallace. Mike Wallace already won the Mike Wallace game. If you have not heard that name, you should actually look him up because he was a very skilled interviewer. There's a documentary about him that is fantastic and has chilling footage of him and the entire story behind interviewing the Ayatollah Khomeini. In any case, it's not hardball. It's not any of these formats.

• 18:18Tim Ferriss?

  And in part that this is going to sound so cheesy and Hallmark card, but I hated going into interviews myself because you've been interviewed a ton. I've been interviewed hundreds or thousands of times at this point. And when you go in and someone just cuts an angle and is out to get some type of headline that they're going to cherry pick from a longer statement you make and twisted out of context. I just didn't want anything to do with that. I wanted my show to be the show, not because it's easy necessarily, but because it's well researched and thoughtful and not out to be aggressive for the sake of being aggressive.

• 19:00Tim Ferriss?

  For all of those reasons and more, there were certain topics that I didn't bring up. And in part, that is because if it is a topic, let's just say I were to ask Zuckerberg, something like, what is your stance on A, B, and C? Or how do you personally think about Russia, Ukraine, this, that, and the other thing? When that is a clear and present, high priority area focus within Meta, Facebook itself, he's not going to have any maneuvering ability. Do you know what I mean? He's going to feel, as he should, compelled to give whatever response they have jointly determined to be the right response. And so for me to throw

• 19:43Tim Ferriss?

  that out, it's a waste of everyone's time and oxygen. Because number one, we're not going to get, and I wouldn't expect, nor would I even recommend that he give something new. And my podcast isn't live, again, for many reasons. But I think I know which trees are worth barking up and which are not. I think I'm very good at picking those shots. And if people want, let's just say, a politically oriented show, or a controversy focused show, or true crime, or something, there are tens of thousands of podcasts, brand new ones that come out every week. You can find something you enjoy. For me, I wanted a lot of the interviews, say with Mark, which I was quite happy with, will remain evergreen for a very long time.

• 20:26Tim Ferriss?

  So talking about how he structures his life, thinks about priorities, how he integrates, say, belief systems, like religion, into his family. I mean, these are all questions that may not be the topic of the week, but that nonetheless, I think, will preserve value, maybe even appreciate in value, over time, as more and more people chase whatever happens to be trending that instant on TikTok.

• 20:52Speaker 03

  That's a great point.

• 20:53Tim Ferriss?

  Or whatever the platform is. Remember Vine?

• 20:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:56Tim Ferriss?

  Risky business betting on one platform.

• 20:58Speaker 03

  When I interviewed Elon, probably 10 years or so ago, I did the same type of approach where it was very like, let's get into who you are as a person versus the topic of the day. And if you go back and watch that interview today, there's still some great evergreen pieces of content that are like lessons from just his childhood, growing up, like things that lessons that he learned along the way. The idea of taking things back to first principles, like the, all that stuff was pretty new when he talked about it back then.

• 21:25Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 21:26Speaker 03

  I'm still really proud of that interview that it still gets a lot of views and people should turn ads on that shit. I don't have ads on that. Get me a little cash on the side.

• 21:35Tim Ferriss?

  That's, you know, I was gonna say, Kevin, you know, I saw you, the holes in your socks.

• 21:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:40Tim Ferriss?

  You know.

• 21:41Speaker 03

  Shit's breaking down, dude.

• 21:43Tim Ferriss?

  All the hand me downs that you're wearing.

• 21:45Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 21:46Tim Ferriss?

  Times are tough in the Rose household.

• 21:47Speaker 03

  So tough.

• 21:51Tim Ferriss?

  What do you think I should do with the podcast?

• 21:53Speaker 03

  Honestly?

• 21:54Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 21:54Speaker 03

  Because I love you, I want you to move to Los Angeles and have a live show. Cause I think a live show would be, here's the question, like, I guess what I was trying to hint at with the Joe Rogan piece is that I believe when I watched Zuck on his show, and I watch a lot of people, Aaron Rodgers and a few people that I've watched recently, the reason why he can get them to share intimate details is because of that. I mean, Aaron Rodgers is sitting there smoking a cigar on his set, right? And they're just kind of chilling out, like having fun. It's the Elon moment with the weed cigarette, you know, all that shit. But like that magic can't happen remote, you know?

• 22:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's a lot harder.

• 22:32Speaker 03

  It's a lot harder. So, I don't know. If you're gonna go for it, like I'd love for you to move to LA, dude, but that's just me personally, to have, wanted to have you more in my orbit and hanging out more often, you know?

• 22:43Tim Ferriss?

  You know, I thought about doing a limited edition live series. I was actually looking at it right before COVID hit.

• 22:50Speaker 03

  Well, you did that series, that, yeah, that television show, right?

• 22:52Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, Fearless. And I enjoyed that. And I would do it again, and there is a magic. A connection, also an audio visual component, if you want to show photographs or video.

• 23:05Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 23:06Tim Ferriss?

  That is very hard, if not impossible, to replicate.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  It's the Oprah thing.

• 23:10Tim Ferriss?

  I also just like having, I think having an audience is a lot of fun.

• 23:14Speaker 03

  Well, think about what Oprah did, right?

• 23:15Tim Ferriss?

  Being an athlete and having to compete, it's going from training to competing.

• 23:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:19Tim Ferriss?

  And since I don't do live very often, I get a cheap thrill out of it.

• 23:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:24Tim Ferriss?

  But what were you saying about Oprah?

• 23:24Speaker 03

  Well, I was just saying that she was able to break down, I mean, a lot of the intimate stuff that came out was because they were sitting across from each other, right? You felt like you were just with her during that moment. Why don't you do six months out of the year out here?

• 23:39Speaker 03

  A little studio, a little series, it could be cool, actually.

• 23:41Tim Ferriss?

  Maybe one month.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  No, but it was okay, that tax shit.

• 23:47Tim Ferriss?

  Can I just say, I think it's so funny to talk to all the people moving to Austin, or I shouldn't say all the people. I don't talk to all the people. When I talk to people and you're in some mixed company and there are all these tax refugees from California and you're like, so guys, yeah, how'd you decide on Austin? They're like, oh, man, well, the barbecue and the flowers and, you know, I really like armadillos. And, oh, I just thought, I really need to invest in a customized AI-driven, tech-enabled cowboy boot business. That's what I thought. And I, and I asked myself, where's the best such business? Oh, it's in Austin. So blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they dance around the taxes.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  They won't say it.

• 24:25Tim Ferriss?

  They won't say it. They won't say it. So I, one of my stupid, kind of old Muppet, like up in the balcony, like, you're not funny! Like yelling at the other kinder Muppets is I'll see like how long I can push.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Until they say it's for the taxes.

• 24:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, just, I'll see like just how many contortionist Cirque du Soleil acts.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  You're gonna watch them kind of sweat.

• 24:49Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, they're gonna go through before they're finally like, yeah, yeah, no, I mean, yeah, whatever. Like, my company was going public six months later and I just thought it'd be a good idea.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  I at least know a dozen people that have moved to Texas just for the taxes.

• 25:02Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, for sure. I moved in 2017 and I wanted to move there right after college. But the fact of the matter is. I moved to Austin because I wanted to leave a scene also. I mean, there are tons of reasons, but.

• 25:14Speaker 03

  I remember you were in SF, right?

• 25:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  And you were just kind of getting burnt out on this shit.

• 25:18Tim Ferriss?

  I was done for a couple of years before I left. Then I got there and then COVID happened. And what I thought was going to take like five to eight years happened in 18 months. And now Austin is a scene and it's like, fuck.

• 25:31Speaker 03

  Well, because I remember one time I talked to you and I don't know if you want to keep this in or not, but like there's one time where you're like, you moved to Austin, kind of hoping to kind of like get away from that shit.

• 25:40Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 25:40Speaker 03

  And then you're going to coffee shops, people are, Tim, like recognizing you and just being like, you're like, fuck, I just wanted to kind of be some peace.

• 25:47Tim Ferriss?

  You know, and it's a.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  You're hearing tech conversations over coffee?

• 25:52Tim Ferriss?

  It's tech. It's the tech stuff.

• 25:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:54Tim Ferriss?

  Because if somebody listens to the podcast and they say, hi, honestly, there are days when I need it, like it feels good. But I'll paint a picture. If I'm, this is like actually happened to me, something very similar to this. If however, I like spot a guy in a man bun who has more tattoos than like a Brazilian MMA fighter. Who's been to prison and has like an ayahuasca T-shirt on and is wearing like a Bitcoin bracelet. And comes over to me and he's like, yo, bro. Yeah. Well, I used to listen to your stuff, but I'm more of a Lex Friedman fan. Like, what is this? Lex Friedman is actually a great podcaster, but somebody says this to me and I'm like, what is this interaction about? Like this is such a bizarre interaction that like archetype,

• 26:40Tim Ferriss?

  which is at the nexus of a bunch of circles, including something called conspirituality. Whoever came up with that, high five, one of the best words ever. But this like conspirituality that seems to have taken as its HQ. Austin, you started this.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Drives me cuckoo bananas. I, I did not start the conspirituality. No, but you were one of the first people I heard talking about ayahuasca and shit.

• 27:03Tim Ferriss?

  Well, yeah, that's true. And then as soon as something is popular enough that people are doing it because it's popular, then I'm like, I want to just exit stage left.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:11Tim Ferriss?

  I saw this piece in the New York Post about socialites using ayahuasca to do god knows what. And it's just the same status bullshit. The cars, the goodies that you show to your friends, like all the status stuff that drives me completely nuts. And look, I'm sure I play some of those games myself because we're human and we all play some of those games.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  I don't know that you do. Like, I know you pretty well. I've never seen you drive a crazy car.

• 27:39Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  You always have shitty cars.

• 27:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  It's true.

• 27:43Tim Ferriss?

  It's true. It's true. And yeah, I don't, in that way, I don't play any of those games. Or I try not to.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  And your houses have always been very reasonable.

• 27:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah, they're modest.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  You know, you have a private jet, but that's.

• 27:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you know, aside from my fleet of golf, golf, golf streams. Very reasonable. So as soon as, especially with the psychedelic stuff, God, it makes me like so sad on some level that the fucking monkeys can't help but like soil their own home over and over again. It's just like, oh, guys, come on, like this one thing, can we not turn this into like a kicking it with the Kardashians, keeping up with whoever the hell is your next door neighbor? And because like my, instead of this sort of sideways

• 28:40Tim Ferriss?

  glance, making sure that someone has noticed your hot new, like Bugatti, now it's like, oh, oh, well, you had a good shaman experience. Let me tell you about my shaman. And it's like, oh, it's the same jerking off. It's the same stupid game. And.

• 29:00Speaker 03

  I've still never done the, the actual ayahuasca. I gotta do that one time with you. I'd love to.

• 29:06Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, we can talk about it. We can talk about it. I mean, I.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  I know you'd give me the authentic shit. I don't want that like bullshit. I want to go, if I'm gonna get to it, let's go in.

• 29:15Tim Ferriss?

  I'm just gonna be like, hold on, let me hop on Craigslist, find somebody good. Give me a second. Casual encounters? Does that make sense? I don't know how they're advertising these days. I will say, just as a quick note, with ayahuasca specifically, I talk so many more people out of using, well, this is broadly speaking, out of using psychedelics than I have ever talked into using psychedelics. I think that's something that a lot of folks listening may not realize, that I mostly disqualify or discourage people from doing ayahuasca or any psychedelic. It just depends a lot on the specifics for me because these things are so strong and they can be incredibly destabilizing.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've been there.

• 30:00Tim Ferriss?

  And...

• 30:01Speaker 03

  After I did that high dose mushrooms, very amazing experience and definitely therapy, like a shit ton like they tell you all compressed in this little thing. But for two or three days after, I was just kind of like, ooh, emotions were all over the place, you know? It's like, it's not just smooth sailing from the second you get done, you know? The chemicals are gonna rebound and shit.

• 30:21Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, and you're increasing plasticity. So if you take, like, you just imagine that you have this huge, let's just say, maybe not huge, like volleyball sized ball of Play-Doh and you have to heat it to be able to shape it. And that's your brain and then you heat it. And depending on all the inputs and stimuli, positive and negative, that enter your life or that you allow to enter your life over the subsequent handful of days or even weeks, will shape how that dries. And it's not automatically for the better. So, long way of saying, definitely do your homework.

• 31:06Tim Ferriss?

  This stuff has become so popular and I'm excited about the therapeutic potential. I'm excited about the potential for examining in ways that have been effectively impossible before for a lot of technological reasons. We will begin to ask and answer questions about the mind and consciousness itself that we have not even been able to scratch the surface of even 20 years ago. I think psychiatry is going to fundamentally change a lot of really... Core ways, right? Fundamental core, kind of redundant, but you get the idea that that some of the tectonic plates under which psychiatry rests currently are going to shift very dramatically. And I'm excited about that.

• 31:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. Speaking of which, you kind of, we haven't even hit any of our topics that we're going to talk about today.

• 31:51Tim Ferriss?

  Well, let me ask you before we move on.

• 31:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, it was going to be in line with that, but it, yeah.

• 31:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there. Now that you gave me one quarter of a drink.

• 31:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:58Tim Ferriss?

  Hold on, hold on.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 32:00Tim Ferriss?

  I'm on a roll. I may or may not have had some other chocolates.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  Oh, that's right. I did not have that. But in any case, ayahuasca chocolate.

• 32:09Tim Ferriss?

  Well, no, God, that would be the most, that would be like cat shit sandwich. It's like the flavor that comes to mind. All right. Why would you want to do, say, ayahuasca? What would the hole be potentially?

• 32:24Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, for me, I have had a few experiences on psychedelics that every drug that you take is a little bit different, right? Like you have a different door open. Like high dose weed is going to feel very different than high dose mushrooms because it feels very different than microdosed acid, which I'm just talking about the things that I've, I've tried. So I imagine there's another door to open there.

• 32:47Tim Ferriss?

  Puffing ketamine, different door.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  Ketamine, very different. I've done, I've done ketamine before in a therapeutic setting and it was, it was, it was actually the most pleasant, like chill thing I've ever done. Like this is like just chill, you know?

• 32:59Tim Ferriss?

  Watch out for the long-term brain damage if you guys ever do it. We'll, we'll get into that in another episode.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. So for me, I'm trying to figure out, and this is onto my first point about my, my seven day retreat that I'm going to do.

• 33:11Tim Ferriss?

  That was a good head fake. Did you answer my question?

• 33:13Speaker 03

  No, no, no. What I'm saying is that I want to, I want to open as many doors as possible during this lifetime. Why not? You know?

• 33:20Tim Ferriss?

  Okay. All right. Hey.

• 33:22Speaker 03

  It's not to say I'm going to go and, and, and stick to one door and be down that path for the next, you know, six months, but why not just try it? Like I'm, I'm going to be dead in 40 years.

• 33:30Tim Ferriss?

  True, despite all the people skipping lunch and dinner in hopes of eking out an extra three years. So you were gonna segue, opening doors?

• 33:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the problem, Tim, I have with a lot of these compounds is that I feel like they're very prescriptive and I worry that you get these changes, don't get me wrong, and granted, I don't have near as much, I don't have as much data as you do on this, on this front, but for me, I felt this like, nice relief for like, a month, you know? And then it kind of creeps back in to the normal steady state of the things, right? And so the plasticity, I wonder, is it like something that you have to do multiple times and like, how many times? And then, then on the, on the worst case of this, you hear about these people that they just don't ever come back and they're the lifelong journeyers that are, they, these, you know, psychonauts that, and you're like, are you killing more brain cells? Are you really reworking the plastic there? Are you just kind of like,

• 34:26Speaker 03

  you know?

• 34:26Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, or you took that Play-Doh and just like, just threw it down a sand dune.

• 34:31Speaker 03

  Exactly. So for me, I've been, you know, I've, we've mentioned this many times on the show, is like, I love the meditation side of things. I think it is a kind of a, trying to reach the same peak, but in a more kind of steady state, like everyday, microdose way, that eventually, over a decade or longer of practice, you'll eventually get to some amazing state of consciousness. I'm obviously not there yet, but I'm doing my first seven day silent retreat at Mountain Cloud Zen Center, which I'm very excited to do.

• 34:59Tim Ferriss?

  That's Henry's place?

• 35:00Speaker 03

  Henry's place, yeah. Henry Schickman, yeah.

• 35:02Tim Ferriss?

  Nice.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  Fantastic teacher.

• 35:03Tim Ferriss?

  So why, why do this retreat? What are you hoping to gain from it?

• 35:08Speaker 03

  Well, if you read a lot of the Zen books that are out there, a lot of the, whether it be the Three Pillars of Zen, or Zen, the Authentic Gate, a lot of the big unlocks that happen with meditation are not just through 50 minutes a day, which Zen is typically 25 minutes of seated meditation, five minutes of walking, and then another 25 minutes of seated. It actually happens at these sessions, at these like, proper retreats, you know? Where you're doing days meditating and you really go deep. It allows your mind to really calm, and you've done this, you've been there. So I just want to go. I want to see where, what's there like in this spirit of unlocking these other doors and trying new things like, hell yeah, like let's, let's go.

• 35:49Tim Ferriss?

  Let's go. LFG Zen.

• 35:57Tim Ferriss?

  All right. Are you concerned at all? Do you have any worries? How are your knees going to be? You're going to be sitting a lot.

• 36:03Speaker 03

  I'm going to be bringing my seated, I use a kind of Japanese style seated bench for meditation versus the folded legs.

• 36:09Tim Ferriss?

  Kind of like a Sibian. It's got a little adapter on it.

• 36:14Speaker 03

  Exactly. So I'm going to go and do that.

• 36:17Tim Ferriss?

  Touch your magic wand. Keeps the hips loose.

• 36:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. I don't even know what you're saying, but that sounds great.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  I'm used to sitting for, for an hour a day like that. So that's, that's not a.

• 36:28Tim Ferriss?

  No, but you're going to be going from hour to how many hours a day?

• 36:31Speaker 03

  Like, like it's going to be like eight or.

• 36:32Tim Ferriss?

  Once you lose feeling in your legs, you're fine.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  I'm fine. I'm really like, I'm all in.

• 36:37Tim Ferriss?

  Roll back to your room.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm all in. I just want to do this.

• 36:41Tim Ferriss?

  Good for you.

• 36:41Speaker 03

  Very excited. Yeah.

• 36:42Tim Ferriss?

  I do like Henry.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Henry's amazing. For those of you don't know, just a plug for Henry through via Sam. Henry has a lot of his courses on the waking up app from Sam Harris. So you can, you can check his stuff out there. Fantastic Zen teacher, just a good human, you know?

• 36:56Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah. Great guy. Very well spoken.

• 36:58Speaker 03

  You had him on the podcast twice.

• 36:59Tim Ferriss?

  He's been on twice. So for people who want to taste test of Dr. Schickman.

• 37:04Speaker 03

  Your second interview with him around the coins was just brilliant, dude.

• 37:07Tim Ferriss?

  It was so good. It was fun. Yeah. Yeah. Because that was part of the intention for the first episode, as you know.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:12Tim Ferriss?

  And then we got hooked on all these other topics and didn't come back to it. And I was like, all right, we need to do a round two.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  Cool. Yeah, I love it.

• 37:22Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront. There's a lot happening in the U.S. and global economies right now. You see it every day in the news. Are we in a recession? Is it a bear market? What's going on with inflation? What's going to happen? I can't tell the future. I don't know anyone who can, but I can tell you about a great place to earn more on your savings. And that's Wealthfront. Wealthfront is an app that helps you save and invest your money. Right now you can earn 2% APY. The annual percentage yield with the Wealthfront cash account. That's 20 times more interest than if you left your money in a savings account at the average bank, according to FDIC.gov. Getting a cash account is easy. It takes just a few minutes to sign up and you'll then immediately start earning 2% interest on your savings.

• 38:07Tim Ferriss?

  And when you open an account today, you'll get an extra $50 bonus with a deposit of $500 or more. There are already nearly half a million people using Wealthfront to save more, earn more, and build long-term wealth. So why wait? Earn 2% on your cash today. Visit wealthfront.com/tim to get started. That's wealthfront.com/tim. This was a paid endorsement by Wealthfront.

• 38:34Tim Ferriss?

  So, anything you've enjoyed watching recently?

• 38:37Speaker 03

  Yes, I was gonna get into some of the, I figure we could do, because it's been a while since we've hung out, and I'm sure, you know, with COVID and everything else, we've hit some good movies. I was gonna give you like my-

• 38:49Tim Ferriss?

  Favorite porn search terms?

• 38:50Speaker 03

  Five bullet movie list. Because I know you love five bullets. I actually have five bullets right here.

• 38:55Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, I know, you do.

• 38:55Speaker 03

  Bullets. You love those bullets.

• 38:58Tim Ferriss?

  I do.

• 38:59Speaker 03

  How about my five bullet movie list? And you tell me yes or no, whether you like these, whether you've seen them.

• 39:03Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, great.

• 39:04Speaker 03

  And then you do the same for me. You got five?

• 39:05Tim Ferriss?

  I do not have five. I have one.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  All right.

• 39:08Tim Ferriss?

  But-

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Good job.

• 39:12Tim Ferriss?

  But it has six episodes, so technically, I think I have six and you have five.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  Okay, sweet. Six Bull Friday. All right, so the new Top Gun. Fucking great.

• 39:21Tim Ferriss?

  Fantastic.

• 39:22Speaker 03

  Can you believe that he did all that flying himself?

• 39:24Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, the fact that he is still doing so many of his own stunts is-

• 39:29Speaker 03

  It's insane.

• 39:30Tim Ferriss?

  Incredible. And it's-

• 39:31Speaker 03

  It makes you want to pick up Scientology.

• 39:35Tim Ferriss?

  You know, you're in the right place.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 39:37Tim Ferriss?

  The real reason that Kevin moved to LA.

• 39:39Speaker 03

  That is not the case.

• 39:43Tim Ferriss?

  I thought Maverick was fantastic. Saw it in IMAX. I hadn't seen anything on IMAX in a long time. And I was like, all right, like, if we're gonna do it, let's actually do it.

• 39:50Speaker 03

  I really went into it being like, oh, Jesus, I hope they don't ruin this, you know, like another Top Gun. This is gonna be cheesy. And I walked away being like, damn, that was good. It was really good.

• 39:58Tim Ferriss?

  It was fantastic. And there have been also a lot of filmmakers who have enjoyed it. Not that that's my indicator. I just thought it'd be fun to go see, uh, old school, all the tropes. Like, use all the cliches because they work.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  The music.

• 40:14Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, absolutely. Just, you know exactly what you're signing up for. And it's like, having something that reliable and uplifting is really reassuring in a world of increasingly chaotic uncertainty. It's like, yeah, you know, when you go to see fucking Maverick, it's not gonna end with like, an orphan kid dying. You know that that's not the ending.

• 40:37Speaker 03

  All right. So the next, next movie, uh, The Price of Everything. Have you seen that?

• 40:42Tim Ferriss?

  The Price of Everything. Is this an art doc?

• 40:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 40:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yes. I saw it a long time. Yeah, I saw it quite a few years ago. Yeah, I really, really enjoyed it. So why don't you, you've seen it much more recently, though?

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it basically just gives you, if you're ever curious, kind of the behind the scenes of the contemporary art world, what goes on at auction, how these artists make their art, they actually, which is crazy, they actually hire, like, people to do the art for them.

• 41:06Tim Ferriss?

  Some of them do, yeah.

• 41:07Speaker 03

  Some of them do. It's just a crazy behind the scenes view of the art world. And for someone that's into NFTs, it was just like, I learned a lot. So.

• 41:15Tim Ferriss?

  It is a, it is a wild romp through contemporary art. And if you're in the camp of, let's just say, advocate, right? You really enjoy contemporary art, you'll get a lot out of it. And also, if, if you think that much of contemporary art is complete horseshit, you will also get a lot out of it because neither camp is gonna be disappointed.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. Hey, love, can I have a little sippers of something you find?

• 41:39Tim Ferriss?

  Thank you.

• 41:40Speaker 03

  Not a beer, just like any wine or anything. So the price of, the next one, Elvis, the new Elvis film.

• 41:47Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, look at that. There we go. Bam. Look at that bling.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  So the new Elvis film, so here's the deal. I don't care about Elvis. Who cares about Elvis, right? Like, I didn't think, no, seriously, I was like Elvis, old people, blah, blah, blah. You watch Elvis, this, this new movie.

• 42:02Tim Ferriss?

  Why did you go to it?

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Tony Conrad actually told me it was fantastic.

• 42:05Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  And so I put it on and I was blown away because Elvis was a misfit. Like, he, he grew up in a black neighborhood. That's how he got a lot of that kind of soul vibe, like the heat that came through in his music. And then also, he was like thrown in jail because of the way he moved his hips and shit. Like, these were the times back then, right? And so like, he got on stage and like, just like make his finger move and stuff to like, like, get the crowd going and shit. Cause he couldn't move his hips, otherwise he'd be thrown in jail. It's a brilliant story. This shows how he got hooked on drugs. And whenever I thought of Elvis, I thought of this, like, Vegas singer, overweight, passed away. Oh, I don't know much, but I learned a lot. And he reminds me of just any other icon.

• 42:49Speaker 03

  I can see why he's so massive. It was like a history lesson in a movie. So highly recommend it. Yeah.

• 42:55Tim Ferriss?

  I'll check it out.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  You should.

• 42:56Tim Ferriss?

  It looked like the cinematography was beautiful, just based on the preview.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  Fantastic. Yeah, I was not expecting to love an Elvis movie. That is not me, right? But I walked away being like, he was a badass, a lot cooler than I thought.

• 43:08Tim Ferriss?

  I'll check it out.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. Next one, Everything Everywhere All at Once?

• 43:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yes.

• 43:12Speaker 03

  So good.

• 43:13Tim Ferriss?

  It was great. I'll give you a bit of trivia, maybe if you have not heard this already. I was watching it and Michelle Yeoh's husband from within 30 seconds, I was like, I know that guy.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Goonies.

• 43:28Tim Ferriss?

  Yes, exactly. I was like, Data from the Goonies, within like 30 seconds.

• 43:34Tim Ferriss?

  I'm just so glad that that guy got working.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  Still around.

• 43:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I mean, he could have ended up in a million different places. And the fact that he's, I'm sure he's maybe been.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  He looks good, dude.

• 43:43Tim Ferriss?

  Been in maybe many other films, but to end up in this as such a, I don't want to say sleeper hit, but like unexpected, I would imagine mega hit.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  So I, I made Daria watch it and she was just like, what the hell am I watching? It's a weird ass film.

• 43:57Tim Ferriss?

  It's a super bizarre movie.

• 43:58Speaker 03

  If you like really weird shit and you're just like, your jam is kind of like funky indie odd. Like, you walk away being like, what the hell did I just watch? But it's brilliant. It's brilliant at the end of the day.

• 44:11Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah. I really.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  The jumping for the dildo scene. Was just remember that when they're trying to race.

• 44:18Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yes.

• 44:19Speaker 03

  No idea.

• 44:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yes.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  The fight scene.

• 44:21Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 44:21Speaker 03

  In the middle of a fight scene.

• 44:22Tim Ferriss?

  Exactly.

• 44:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:23Tim Ferriss?

  It's ridiculous.

• 44:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot to it. This is a strange movie.

• 44:26Tim Ferriss?

  So my last one on list of ones I've watched recently that was for here's number five airplane, the original airplane.

• 44:33Speaker 03

  Oh, have you watched that recently?

• 44:34Tim Ferriss?

  No, and it would never get made today, which is probably part of what makes it funny.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  It's cringe, like bad, like really sexist. And there's a whole, a whole lot of jokes in there that you look at and you're like, how the hell do they make this? But it's also like, there's so many iconic moments and, and, and bits that when you watch it. I heard you spitting in the background. It's just, it's fantastic to watch again.

• 44:59Tim Ferriss?

  Airplane.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:00Tim Ferriss?

  Oldie.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  All right.

• 45:02Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 45:02Speaker 03

  What's your number? What's your one movie that you have to recommend?

• 45:06Tim Ferriss?

  I'll share an oldie. It's not as old as Airplane, but if people have not seen, I recently rewatched it Spirited Away. By Studio Ghibli, which at the time was headed up by Miyazaki Hayao.

• 45:21Tim Ferriss?

  My favorite movie of all time.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  Really? Why? I watch it and I'm like, this is good, you know?

• 45:27Tim Ferriss?

  It just has all the ingredients. I think I also watched it when I was 15 or 16. So it might, it might have been a few years later, but the coming of age and hero's journey of Chihiro, who then gets renamed Sen. And the whole story and sequence behind that. The fact that she goes from so weak to so self-confident and strong. The way that is woven in to a fantasy backdrop, including so many of my favorite things, right? I mean, there's like Japanese bathhouse, bunch of weird gods, you know, a bunch of creepy like ghosts type phantasms.

• 46:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:10Tim Ferriss?

  Like Kawanashi or No Face is one of the characters. And I thought the animation and the backgrounds and everything, when you consider particularly that they're hand painted, was spectacular and is spectacular. So I've rewatched that. I'm also very interested now in world building. I'm doing a bunch of fiction writing right now.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  Tell us more about that.

• 46:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, we'll get into that. And

• 46:32Speaker 03

  Are you gonna talk about that today or no?

• 46:33Tim Ferriss?

  No, I'll save it. I'll save it. But I will say, I'm bouncing around a little bit. So spirited away and then recently read a classic, I think it was published in 1968 initially, called The Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K. Le Guin. And it's incredible. It's such a beautifully crafted book. The language is really not flowery, but poetic, sometimes in a very simplistic way. That is to say, even very basic sentences, she'll make beautiful. And without The Wizard of Earthsea, Harry Potter doesn't exist. Or at least wizarding schools, as we've come to think about them.

• 47:17Tim Ferriss?

  There are so many components of fantasy worlds that we take for granted now that would not have existed were it for The Wizard of Earthsea. And then prior to that, I also listened to, I know I'm jumping around a bit, The Fellowship of the Ring for the first time. So I had not read Lord of the Rings. I had not read any J. R. R. Tolkien. And when you consume those two books, especially Tolkien stuff, you realize how many of the archetypes that we just assume have been around forever because they're so ubiquitous, came out of this guy's head.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  One question there. Did you see the new Amazon series?

• 47:56Tim Ferriss?

  The new Amazon series?

• 47:57Speaker 03

  The Lord of the Rings.

• 47:59Tim Ferriss?

  I can't remember the name of it. I've seen the trailer pop up because they're promoting the hell out of it.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  Oh, they spent a billion dollars on the series. It's crazy.

• 48:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I haven't watched it.

• 48:08Speaker 03

  The Bezos went nuts.

• 48:08Tim Ferriss?

  I haven't watched it, but I will.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  Cool.

• 48:10Tim Ferriss?

  And as far as my other item, my one item.

• 48:15Tim Ferriss?

  I'll mention it. I mentioned it to Daria earlier because I think it's so spectacular. It's a limited series or a six part, I want to say, animated series. Although it combines 3D and 2D animation in a really innovative, spectacular way is Arcane, which you heard me mention earlier as well. And Arcane is based on a game I have never played, but many people do, League of Legends, or it's based on some characters from this game. And Riot Games, and there's a separate behind the scenes series, which is the making of Arcane, called Bridging the Rift, which I'm also watching. And they just threw everything at this.

• 48:59Tim Ferriss?

  And the animation studio in France, Fortiche, that helped to create the, not just the visual components, there's a lot to it, and the musical Is this streaming? composition behind it is on Netflix. Oh, cool. And every frame of this series could be a beautiful, large NFT, or a piece of artwork that you would put on a wall. I love that. I mean, it is staggeringly detailed and gorgeous. So I'm just recommending to everybody. All right. And they spent nine figures on it. I don't know if it was 100 million, 200 or more, but the fact that they were willing to dedicate, after a lot of testing, it wasn't haphazard, but willing to dedicate that type of resources

• 49:43Tim Ferriss?

  to a six-part animated series. Oh, man. Awesome. It's really gorgeous. And it also shows a contemporary example of world building. Even though there was world building, there is world building in League of Legends, because I've learned more about the game, even though I haven't played it. When you're creating six hours of content on a handful of characters, you have to flesh them out and to create narrative arcs that intertwine in a way that you just don't necessarily have to in a video game. So. Highest recommendation.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Can I pick your brain a little bit here or just maybe get you to divulge a little bit here? You've mentioned now a couple of times about doing a little bit of writing in this genre. You're not doing a book.

• 50:30Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 50:30Speaker 03

  But you're doing something, I think now's the time to start kind of teasing things out a little bit. Can you just tell us what, what is Tim working on these days? Like, and you don't have to go into a lot of detail, but can you, can you give us a little bit of like, I'm fleshing out of doing this or maybe pushing here or can he?

• 50:46Tim Ferriss?

  Here's what I'll say, I'll say that, I'm not going to divulge too much, but I will say that I've been experimenting with fiction for about a year and a half, two years.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  Well, you did the NFT with, with us, which is great.

• 51:00Tim Ferriss?

  To bring it up. So my first NFT experiment, thanks to your encouragement, was a short fiction piece called, If You Want to Start a War. And I really enjoyed the process of putting that together. And specifically the writing process of playing with fiction. And in that particular case, it was very strongly based on real events. It's fiction, but a lot of it was based on real people and real events, which makes it even spookier. If people want to check that out. And we did that through Grails, which was great.

• 51:38Tim Ferriss?

  And I'm continuing to work those muscles after a lot of conversations with people like Stephen Pressfield and others who have been very encouraging. I may have some stuff to show in the next few months.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  Cool.

• 51:53Tim Ferriss?

  I'll put it that way, but it has been a great excuse to read and watch a lot of fiction. Sci-fi and, and fantasy primarily. And I've learned so much. I've ended up going really deep. So with Ursula K. Le Guin, for instance, who was a huge influence on Neil Gaiman. Who's writing I've loved for a very long time, including books that I've recommended, probably on previous random shows many years ago, like The Graveyard Book, which is just fantastic. If people only read nonfiction and you want an easy gateway drug, try that out. The audiobook by Neil Gaiman is fantastic.

• 52:33Tim Ferriss?

  In any case, so I'm, I'm working as I'm thinking about fiction through these influences and lineages, right? So I'm looking at Neil Gaiman, like all sorts of aspects of his process and writing. And then I hear him talking about Ursula K. Le Guin. Then I go on Twitter and ask people if I'm only going to read one of her books, which one should I read? Get a whole host of answers. Start with The Wizard of Earth, see, that leads me somewhere else. Then I watch a PBS documentary on her life and then learn about A, B, and C. And just following the breadcrumbs of my curiosity in that way has.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  So Tim, I've seen you like, I've seen you like this of a handful of times. I've seen you write a handful of books now. We've been friends that long.

• 53:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 53:16Speaker 03

  And I see when you go down rabbit holes and I, I see this, I see this and I can recognize it and it means that you're up to something big.

• 53:26Tim Ferriss?

  I'm just, yeah.

• 53:27Speaker 03

  It really does. And you look happy when you're describing this. It looks like you're having a good time.

• 53:32Tim Ferriss?

  I'm having a good time.

• 53:32Speaker 03

  That makes me happy.

• 53:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, thanks, man.

• 53:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:34Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'm excited. And it's, I feel like I'm awakening muscles or creative processes that have been dormant for a long time.

• 53:47Speaker 03

  It feels like this is potentially a new way for you to flex your creativity in a different, and something that you've been, it sounds like this is something you've had a passion for, for a very long time. And now is the first time you're like, okay, I'm going to go for it here.

• 54:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, totally. And it brings back so many, and there's a value here, right? It's not just simple nostalgia there. It brings back so many emotional imprints that were powerful and positive when I was a kid. And especially given some of the darker stuff that I've talked about in my childhood, it's easy for my psyche to weigh the negative more heavily, right? To weigh the dark stuff more heavily. But by, say, going then into.

• 54:34Tim Ferriss?

  Some of these corners of the fiction world, it's brought me back to, for instance, right now I'm rereading The Neverending Story by Michael Enda, I mean, which was my favorite book as a kid. And I remember I used to get in trouble. I would pull pranks and stuff and get sent to detention. And detention in elementary school was in a few places. I always tried to dodge the nurse's office because it's so boring. I wanted to get sent to the library and then I would get sent to the library. And I started reading The Neverending Story and I fell so in love with it that I took it out of its spot and I hid it in a different corner of the library so that nobody else would take it out so I wouldn't get interrupted. And then I would get into detention again and I would know exactly

• 55:19Tim Ferriss?

  where it was hidden so I could go back and continue reading The Neverending Story. And I don't know if you've ever had this experience, maybe you could, some people might have this experience if, for instance, they saw Aladdin as a kid and then they go and watch it as an adult and they're like, oh, my God, Robin Williams had a lot of humor for adults. And I didn't notice it as a kid. Similarly, with a lot of these fiction books, like you read The Wizard of Earthsea or you read The Neverending Story, there is a lot of deep philosophical discussion and a lot of insight and you might even say truth that is really applicable, maybe even more so to adults who can grok that piece of it.

• 56:00Speaker 03

  Don't you love that when you reread something a little bit later?

• 56:03Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  And it just hits you in a completely different way.

• 56:05Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, totally.

• 56:06Speaker 03

  It's the best.

• 56:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's a lot of fun. So I'm lit up. Yeah, I feel good.

• 56:10Speaker 03

  That's awesome. Love to hear that. Should we, I've got a couple, I know we're coming up on an hour here, but I've got a couple more quick little things that are fun.

• 56:18Tim Ferriss?

  Coming up on an hour? How old are you? Jesus.

• 56:20Speaker 03

  It's time to go to bed. It's nine, it's nine forty-five.

• 56:24Tim Ferriss?

  It's nine forty-five. Time to have my warm milk and go to bed.

• 56:27Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 56:28Tim Ferriss?

  Put on my overalls. Can I have a little more champers, love?

• 56:33Speaker 03

  Thank you. Tim needs a little splash of something too. Carbonated water is great for me.

• 56:41Speaker 03

  So this is a fun one, actually. This is completely off topic, but I thought it was just, it's such a fun little hack. I love that. This is off topic for the random show. Yeah, it's gonna be, thank you very much. Really appreciate it. So one of the things that I love about the random shows, we can bring up anything and it's just like, it's like, what are we excited about? What little hacks are we finding? And we used to do a lot of that back in the day. Now we're just old and lazy. Yeah, we're like tired. Axe, who has time for that? We were joking about this before we were live. We're gonna talk about like what cholesterol medicine we're on and shit. Yeah, I was just saying the 20 year old versions of us would be so disappointed. So disappointed. So inflation is, is a bitch right now, right? It's kind of going crazy. One of the things that

• 57:24Speaker 03

  It's like $34 avocado toast here in San Monica. It's not cheap. People are hurting. We gotta go tomorrow, by the way. I know a great place. We're gonna take you to. So one of the things that I've always generally avoided are just bonds, government bonds and, and because the interest rates have been shed, right? So they have something called the I-bonds. And so I-bonds. I, letter I. Yeah, letter I. And so I-bonds. Dumb question. Yeah. I-bonds? Yeah, exactly. UAE? Not the UAE. So the letter I-bonds, you can buy directly on treasurydirect.gov, which is the government website. And I've done this over the last couple of years and it's, it's great. They max out at 10K. So the most you can put in is 10 grand.

• 58:07Speaker 03

  And you can do it for you. Your spouse could have one. And then also you can do it for your kids as well. And right now, the I-bond is based on the current inflation plus interest on top of that. So you get 9.62% from the government. Like, that's good, right? And granted, that can change with inflation and all of that, but like, I'll lock in that rate any day. Like, I'll go for that for sure. So if you have a hundred dollars, you can do it. This is applicable to pretty much everyone, right? So not investment advice, but. No, it's totally investment advice. But if you use code KEVKEV. Yeah, exactly. With the government website, use code KRO. And identify as child of.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  No, it's just, it's one of those things where it's like, dude, when you talk about a good year in the stock market, you're talking, you know, 10% is what you're kind of hoping for on average.

• 58:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yep, for sure.

• 58:57Speaker 03

  And, and that's with a lot of risk, right? And the fact that you can get a US government bond and it's going to yield you 9.62 right now, like that's, that's just like free money. So, I mean, listen, if the government defaults on their bonds, yes, come after me.

• 59:13Tim Ferriss?

  Well, yeah, we'll have, we'll have marauder trucks on the road. By that point, it'll be hard to find Kevin.

• 59:20Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 59:21Tim Ferriss?

  But anyway, yeah, this stuff was worth bringing up.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure.

• 59:24Tim Ferriss?

  I've never, I, I, clearly if I'm asking if it's I bond with an EYE, I've never heard of it either. So, right there with you folks.

• 59:31Speaker 03

  I got two today for my kids and I'm just going to like, put that as car money for the future.

• 59:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 59:38Speaker 03

  Just let it go and then when it expires, I'll go reinvest it and yeah, it's, it's good.

• 59:42Tim Ferriss?

  Cool. I bond, I bonds with an I.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  Well, heck.

• 59:46Tim Ferriss?

  So I got a couple, I'm not sure this is a hack, but I'll, I'll lump it in or include it because it relates to thematically the stuff that's going on in my mind. And that is, I watched a masterclass, so companies masterclass, they have all these various instructional, so people in every discipline you can imagine, including a number of, I've already mentioned, like Neil Gaiman. And they had one with Amy Tan, who's a very famous novelist. And the first few segments in particular, I found incredibly compelling and she's so eloquent also, she's, she seems to speak in finished prose and I only know a few people like that. And it always just blows my mind that they're able to do that.

• 1:00:31Tim Ferriss?

  Sam Harris would be another one. I mean, waking up at, remember, side note, I don't think Sam would mind me asking. At one point, I was listening to his many meditations and I listened to one and I texted him and I said, Sam, is there any chance I could get the text for like the X, Y and Z episode? And he's like, what do you mean, the text? And I'm like, the script that you used for recording. The A, B, and C part of that episode and he goes, oh, I don't, I don't use scripts. And I was like, oh, yeah, you and I are just different animals, different species entirely. So the

• 1:01:09Speaker 03

  That's impressive. He just wings it.

• 1:01:11Tim Ferriss?

  Cause it's good, it's good content. I mean, he is, yeah, he just has different hardware and it's not just a, it's not born that way. I recognize it's also a skill that he's developed, but Amy Tan, similar, very, very well spoken and extremely good at explaining how she approaches different facets of fiction and how she has pulled from her own life. She also has an entire segment where she goes through all of the rejection letters, or at least some of the most notable of the rejection letters that she got in the beginning, just rejection after rejection after rejection. What was cool that you don't see, at least I didn't see when I

• 1:01:49Tim Ferriss?

  got a lot of my rejections is fiction editors in a number of cases gave her great feedback on her manuscript. So they read the whole thing and then they were like, this is what you could do to improve this part. And here are three other things you could do to really strengthen this aspect of it. You just, at least in my experience, don't get that from rejections and nonfiction. So it was cool to see not just how she thought about responding to criticism. She was actually really grateful for a lot of the letters, but also how much she gained from the feedback and then used to iterate her fiction, which is just fantastic.

• 1:02:27Speaker 03

  Do you do the monthly on that masterclass or do you do the yearly?

• 1:02:30Tim Ferriss?

  I did neither. In this particular case, I got a

• 1:02:33Speaker 03

  Freebie?

• 1:02:34Tim Ferriss?

  A freebie on like Delta Airlines or United or somewhere.

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  Oh, I just keep getting billed for that shit. It drives me nuts. I always think I'm gonna like, watch a bunch of them, you know?

• 1:02:43Tim Ferriss?

  And I sign up for it. I'm still paying for match.com and because I could not figure out how to cancel a thing. And it's like, I haven't used match in like 20 years. So you're welcome, match.com.

• 1:02:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. I still get fucked on a few things. There's like two or three things I just can't figure out how to cancel. Like seriously. And, and you know what's funny is they, I figured it out. They only bill you close to midnight because they know the push notifications come through. The other night I was up late and it was like 11:30 and I had one of those pop down and it was the yearly thing. Yeah.

• 1:03:16Tim Ferriss?

  Clever.

• 1:03:16Speaker 03

  And I'm like, you fucker. And then I went to bed. I don't even know who it is. I forgot. But they got me.

• 1:03:25Tim Ferriss?

  You know, hey, that's what growth hacking is for.

• 1:03:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:03:30Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, let's see here. So, physical training, I've been thinking a lot about physical training. I have

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  You've got a gut now, dude.

• 1:03:35Tim Ferriss?

  I have a little bit of a gut. Geez, I mean, look at this.

• 1:03:38Speaker 03

  Don't be shy, Shady. You're as fat as I am.

• 1:03:41Tim Ferriss?

  You're like fat.

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  Definitely as fat as I am.

• 1:03:42Tim Ferriss?

  I'm not.

• 1:03:43Speaker 03

  Are you kidding me?

• 1:03:44Tim Ferriss?

  No, you're like, you're like, you're like fat bastard from

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  Let me see.

• 1:03:47Tim Ferriss?

  Austin Powers.

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  Let me see it. Let me see. Okay, I'm definitely skinnier than you, dude.

• 1:03:52Tim Ferriss?

  What are you talking, you won't even, oh, no, no.

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  Let me feel that. Okay, you're a little skinnier.

• 1:03:58Tim Ferriss?

  Not much, so.

• 1:03:58Speaker 03

  I'm not proud.

• 1:03:59Tim Ferriss?

  I'm not proud, and I'm not gonna blame it on age, although I guess, I will say things are slowing down, that's for sure.

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:07Tim Ferriss?

  But I have actually lost a decent amount of this baby fat using a couple

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  He's not baby fat anymore, dude.

• 1:04:15Tim Ferriss?

  It's geriatric fat.

• 1:04:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Tim Ferriss?

  With a few simple things. One is a sled, so I have something called the XPO Trainer that is a mechanically assisted, or I should say mechanically resisted sled, so you don't have to load it with plates. And it's on inflatable, I think they're inflatable, one maybe solid rubber, tires, so you can use them on, say, a driveway. And I've been using the XPO Trainer plus some jump rope, which is very minimal.

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  Jump rope is hard, dude.

• 1:04:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I do that for like five or 10 minutes.

• 1:04:49Speaker 03

  Doesn't it kill you? I did jump rope recently, I was like dead afterwards.

• 1:04:54Tim Ferriss?

  It's hard, yeah.

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:55Tim Ferriss?

  That's kind of the point in the beginning, so.

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  I know, but like, I thought it was gonna be like some schoolyard shit, that shit's difficult.

• 1:05:00Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, no, it's hard, it's hard. So I'll do, I'll do the jump rope, then the XPO Trainer, and then kettlebells. And I have some alternation, but most mornings I will do some combination of those things. And I've been doing, I mean, it's pretty easy for me to do intermittent fasting, so I'm just doing late lunch, early dinner.

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:05:19Tim Ferriss?

  Typically.

• 1:05:20Speaker 03

  Can we get one of those croissants in the morning I was telling you about?

• 1:05:23Tim Ferriss?

  Look, man, I haven't seen you in what, like 27 years?

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  You're on vacation.

• 1:05:26Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I mean, if I use travel as vacation equals I can eat butter cookies anytime I want, I'm gonna turn, I will turn into fat bastard from Austin Powers, which is not the look I'm going for, especially, like, imagine bald fat bastard.

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  That's not good.

• 1:05:40Tim Ferriss?

  No, you don't want that.

• 1:05:41Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:05:41Tim Ferriss?

  All right. What else you got here?

• 1:05:44Speaker 03

  I think the last thing for me was that I did one of these full body scans.

• 1:05:48Tim Ferriss?

  What?

• 1:05:50Speaker 03

  Oh yeah. So, oh yeah, Dari is telling me it is true. I do, I do super. No, we're not cutting in video of me doing supernatural. I do a VR workout called Supernatural three times a week. Have you tried this? I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh my God, we have to get Tim to do it right after this, right? Yes, you're gonna freak out, dude. Okay. It's really good. I hate VR. It's stupid. This is amazing. Well, I love that you've been short VR for like the last 10 years. And I've made good money being short VR. But you, you now own a VR device. Yeah, well, I've had a VR device. You have to play with all the latest shit if you're a technologist. Yeah, alright. I'm just saying that like, it's dumb, except for this app. This app's amazing. So Supernatural is, it's like, you have two lightsabers. Okay.

• 1:06:35Speaker 03

  And you have to slice shit in the air. And it sounds like, it's not Fruit Ninja. It's like way better than that. It's done to music. It's choreographed to music. It's amazing. Okay. Tim, you're in love with this. I mean, like, lightsabers chopping things? Yeah. Choreographed to music? I mean, that's three for three for me. Exactly. Anyway, Supernatural is how I get my, um, my hit in every, every, almost like every other day, pretty much. So, so more, more slicing and less jump rope. Yeah, you'll like it. We'll try more croissants. We're gonna try it afterwards. Um, so that's my big thing. The other thing I was gonna say is I did one of those full body MRI scans called. Yeah, we should talk about this. This is something I need to get on. Yeah, you know what? Honestly, it was like, I don't know if it was my mom getting cancer. I think I did it before that, but like,

• 1:07:20Speaker 03

  I was just one of those things where I got to the stage in life where I had a couple little girls and I'm like, you know, Tia was telling me, he was like, hey, you know, you can do these. You're at the age now where it makes sense. See if anything shows up. They can detect, it's something like 80% of cancers at stage one, which is amazing. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, let's do it. So I went and did it two years ago, came back, you know, all the standard stuff like, oh, we see this here, but you know, that's normal, la la la, like this is a little bit weird. You have an extra vertebrae, which I actually do, which is weird. So, oh, oh. A little vestigial tail. Yeah, exactly. A bunch of shit like that.

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  So I do that and then I go for year two and I go and get the scan again and they call me up and they're they're like, yeah, it turns out you have a little brain aneurysm, a little a small brain aneurysm. And I'm like, I'm like, what the fuck? Like, this is crazy. Okay, tell me more. And then after the fact, like a month later, or not a month later, but a few weeks later, my doctor calls them and says, hey, what do we see on the first scan? They found it on the first scan as well. It hadn't changed, which is great. Yeah. And it's super tiny. It's the smallest. My doctor said if they hadn't been using the latest tech, they wouldn't even have detected it at all because it was so small. So it's only one millimeter and they don't treat them till they get to seven millimeters. Yeah. So it's like, it's totally fine. You want to keep your

• 1:08:44Speaker 03

  blood pressure low and all that. But it's also, it's weird because in some sense, like you want to detect those stage one cancers, but there's a lot of false positives. Not that this is a false positive. It's something to pay attention to. Certainly changing my dietary actions in terms of keeping sodium low and like lowering my blood pressure. Yeah. But it's something you should do. Which is why we're having croissants and coffee. Exactly. Well, I mean, that's like I miss my blood pressure. But you know, it's, it's like, I mean, was that, I would imagine that to be terrifying. Yeah. It's 45 minutes. So it's fast. They not the procedure, the review of the results. Yeah. I mean, you go through it and I have a couple of spots in my brain and they they told me you're allowed one per decade. And so like, you're fine. You have, you know,

• 1:09:28Speaker 03

  two or three, whatever. That's fine. I'm like, okay, this doesn't sound good. Like, yeah, it's like a bruised apple, but that's fine. Yeah. And then they're like, they're like, your lymph nodes, this is the first scan. They're like, your lymph nodes are really swollen on the left side. I'm like, cool. Like, what does that mean? And they're like, did you get your, your COVID vaccine on that side? I'm like, yeah, I did. And they're like, okay, that's why. And then that would turn out to be fine. And then, you know, they found like some other shit, like there's a little bit of like a little, a little tail. No, there's like a little like, like, I have this little tiny bulge in my right nutsack. That it's just, it's kind of like the little stringy thing that connects to the sack, kind of bulged out a little bit. And they're like, that's totally normal. It's not

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  cancer. You're fine. Blah, blah. So like, you know, it's just like a little shit like that. Cool. Oh, my God. I can't wait until our random shows when we're like, in our 60s and 70s. It's just gonna be a litany of injuries and prostate complaints. Exactly. Oh, my God. So.

• 1:10:29Tim Ferriss?

  Let me just rewind. So I make sure. No, just make sure I'm hearing you correctly. So were you pissed that they did not?

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  Tell me the first time.

• 1:10:37Tim Ferriss?

  Changed? Yeah. That they didn't spot it first time around?

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  You know, I think it was, it was so small that they just, they have different, it's not a radiologist. Whoever it is that reviews it.

• 1:10:46Tim Ferriss?

  It's probably a radiologist.

• 1:10:47Speaker 03

  I think it is. I think the first part was like, this is so insignificant. I don't even need to call it out. And the second one called it out for, and they were just like, and then they compared the notes and it was fine. This is the story I haven't told. Friend of mine went in, had a scan. They found a growth in his brain, non-cancerous, decent size, operated, removed it. He's fine. But he didn't even know he had it. And he was just going in for, for a thing and it was growing.

• 1:11:13Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:13Speaker 03

  And it saved his life, most likely.

• 1:11:15Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's, that's wild.

• 1:11:17Speaker 03

  And so it's shit like that. And the, the radiologist, when I talked to him, he said the number, he goes, I don't really drink. He goes, but the number of bottles of wine I get in the mail from people that are like, you saved my life because you found this at stage one or stage two. I don't know. It's just one of those things where.

• 1:11:32Tim Ferriss?

  Get your diagnostics, folks. And I mean, do it more. I hesitate to say this, but like, don't, don't push out the interval. If you're supposed to get something every five years, if anything, get it more frequently. Don't push it out. So I have recently had the opposite experience with a friend of mine who went in for a routine exam, stage four cancer, terminal.

• 1:11:55Speaker 03

  Holy shit.

• 1:11:56Tim Ferriss?

  And I just spent several days with him and.

• 1:12:00Speaker 03

  What type of cancer?

• 1:12:01Tim Ferriss?

  Not because, I don't want to give specifics, just in case people like triangulate stuff, but it's metastasized. And at this point, surgery, at least some type of surgery, don't make any sense. And man, if you want a proof point for what someone can do with decades of meditation practice, he is incredibly upbeat. He's super happy. He is.

• 1:12:32Tim Ferriss?

  As productive as he can be, he's spending a lot of time with loved ones, of course, but he is consciously choosing of all the decision trees, a path of gratitude and not naive optimism, but optimism in the sense of looking at everything as the glass half full. And I was so inspired by this because I'm going through some hard stuff myself. And to see someone in those circumstances able to demonstrate that just blew my mind. And I've spent, I know him well enough and we've had enough interactions. I know it

• 1:13:13Tim Ferriss?

  is not an act. It is not an act. And I'm really impressed because that's not automatically the case. I mean, there are people, including famous, famous meditators who are world famous teachers who on their deathbeds or in the process of going through hospice, just say over and over again to their closest friends, like, I don't want to die, I don't want to die, I don't want to die. And they're afraid, which is understandable. I might be that person. I mean, certainly, I have no confidence that I would end up responding the way my friend is responding. But it's been incredibly inspiring.

• 1:13:46Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:13:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. And it's certainly sad in its own way, but a real gift that he's also giving those around him. It's incredible.

• 1:13:55Speaker 03

  How are you doing with dealing with all that?

• 1:13:59Tim Ferriss?

  You mean with, with his situation?

• 1:14:00Speaker 03

  It's gonna be hard being a friend, having a friend go through something like that, you know? Are you gonna see him again, do you think, before he passes? Or is it something that's like?

• 1:14:07Tim Ferriss?

  I would like to. I would like to. I mean, it's, I don't know how long the time horizon is. It's, it's, it may not be that long. I am doing well with it because of how he is able to.

• 1:14:25Tim Ferriss?

  Choose to respond to this unfolding story. Of course, it's sad on a number of levels, but I mean, we're all, we all have a one way ticket as far as we know, you know?

• 1:14:38Speaker 03

  My dad, before he passed, said, there's no lease on life. He just like wanted to remind me of that. Like, you know, it's coming for all of us.

• 1:14:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's not something you want to think about all the time.

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:14:50Tim Ferriss?

  But if you think about it, none of the time, you also have a problem. And this, this has been a very strong reminder for me. It's like, yeah, get it together, you know?

• 1:15:01Speaker 03

  Like when I had.

• 1:15:02Tim Ferriss?

  Don't dick around too much. Like have fun. Don't take everything seriously, but also

• 1:15:08Tim Ferriss?

  realize that like every moment you have like this, not to get all cheesy, but it's like, these are precious. Amazing moments.

• 1:15:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Tim Ferriss?

  Everybody's healthy.

• 1:15:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think about that with my girls every day, dude, and the kids, you know, um, I had Sam Harris on the podcast a while ago, a couple of years ago, and then we talked about the Buddhist monk that was sitting in a meditative pose on the cover of Rage Against the Machine.

• 1:15:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:33Speaker 03

  Doused himself in gasoline in defiance of local government and lit himself on fire and did not flinch. And this has been recorded and there was pictures and everything else.

• 1:15:44Tim Ferriss?

  Video.

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  Did not move.

• 1:15:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:48Speaker 03

  Holy shit. You want to talk about meditation really working? Like, oh my God.

• 1:15:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah. I can't do that. I could barely stay in a cold plunge this morning for three minutes. So.

• 1:16:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. I was in the salon today. I was like, oh, 15 minutes ago, we can make it 20. Okay. We're going to go for it.

• 1:16:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, uh,

• 1:16:11Tim Ferriss?

  you know, all these things are kind of, by all these things, I guess I'm bookending some of our earlier discussion that touched on psychedelics and I mentioned psychiatry and these tectonic plate shifts that I think are, are currently underway, but will be most noticeable five, 10 years from now. And the types of feats that we're describing.

• 1:16:35Tim Ferriss?

  All point to severe, I think, under appreciation for what we are capable of in terms of shaping mind and consciousness.

• 1:16:50Tim Ferriss?

  Right, because lighting yourself on fire and not flinching should not be possible.

• 1:16:53Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:16:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, clearly.

• 1:16:56Speaker 03

  Not even David Blaine can do this.

• 1:16:58Tim Ferriss?

  No one wants to end up having to test that.

• 1:17:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:17:02Tim Ferriss?

  But there are a lot of outcomes that we're seeing, say, in treating various diagnoses related to, I don't want to say mental illness, but psychiatric conditions that are considered intractable or extremely difficult to treat. And some of the outcomes that we're seeing, which are not solely produced through psychedelics. I don't want to make psychedelics sound like a panacea of any type. They're not. They have, in some cases, very significant risks. But it's, it's clear that many of the paradigms through which we've treated patients specifically with any type of what we would consider mental illness is, is likely resting on a number of assumptions that are completely untrue.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:46Tim Ferriss?

  And that's exciting. It's really exciting.

• 1:17:48Speaker 03

  I remember our friend, Dr. Weil, 20 years ago, was speaking about chemotherapy and said how barbaric it will look in the future. And it turns out that is actually true. We have immunotherapy now. My mom's going through it. Like, there's a lot of these things that are very, very promising. And we're just like, a few years away from some really exciting breakthroughs. I'm not sure if you saw that New York Times article about the, it was like, eight out of eight patients cured with this new type of immunotherapy and cancer. Did you see that? It was a groundbreaking, crazy study about this new type of immunotherapy that's just now coming out there soon. But I'd imagine the same is true for psychedelics, right? Like, you know, 20 years from now, they'll have honed it and figured out the right dose,

• 1:18:31Speaker 03

  the right, I mean, they may even modify those molecules, like, who knows where it's going to go, but it's going to be exciting.

• 1:18:37Tim Ferriss?

  It, it is going to be exciting. I think the, you know, we're all driven by...

• 1:18:43Tim Ferriss?

  Our beliefs, right, these thoughts we take to be true and assumptions, even scientists are subject to this, right? I mean, scientists are not robots. And so you have anyone doing anything comes in with a certain set of biases or biases. And in psychedelics, you see also in the psychedelic for-profit sector, you see a lot of motivated reasoning where you have a number of split camps and different kind of schisms within these communities. And one of them is between Camp A. And Camp A believes that many of the clinical outcomes

• 1:19:28Tim Ferriss?

  for depression and PTSD and so on are driven by the content of an experience and the narrative that you can restructure after you observe it for the first time, perhaps, right? The software that's behind many of your decisions, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They think it's the content, in which case, if that is your belief, and in an ideal world, you'd be able to test these things definitively, and many people are making attempts at this, but it's really challenging, then you want enough workspace to allow all that to play out. So let's just say psilocybin and having a session of four to six hours would be viewed as a feature and not a bug. Then you have Camp B, which is saying, oh, yeah, all those

• 1:20:10Tim Ferriss?

  hallucinations, terrible side effects. Really what's happening is on this structural level and this type of XYZ is happening to this receptor and da, da, da, da. We can do all of that if we change the molecule without the psychedelic effects and also press it into like a 30-minute session, and that will copy and paste into our current medical formatting much more easily. But there's a profit motive there, right? Because if you can scale something in that way and reduce some of the quote-unquote side effects. And also patent it. Yeah, and absolutely patent it. And then also make it a drug that you need to take at least twice a week or maybe even every day instead of once a month or once every three months.

• 1:20:56Tim Ferriss?

  That there are

• 1:20:57Speaker 03

  Is that necessarily a bad thing, though?

• 1:20:58Tim Ferriss?

  It's not automatically a bad thing, but I just think it's important for folks to be aware of incentives and to track incentives.

• 1:21:05Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:21:06Tim Ferriss?

  Right?

• 1:21:06Speaker 03

  Because then it just turns into another, a better antidepressant, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

• 1:21:10Tim Ferriss?

  It's not necessarily a bad thing. It depends on how the antidepressant is achieving its effects, right? And there are immediate changes that can be beneficial in a whole host of different situations with medicine, generally speaking, right? So with the pharmacological intervention, it's like if you're, if you're bleeding out and you need a coagulant, like you don't want the, you don't have to wait a long time for that to work. And similarly, it's like if you are suffering from suicidal ideation and are at risk of harming or killing yourself, you need something that's going to work really quickly, in which case, just putting this out there, is intravenous ketamine treatment.

• 1:21:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:21:46Tim Ferriss?

  Maybe.

• 1:21:46Speaker 03

  It's the number one thing, right?

• 1:21:47Tim Ferriss?

  Something you consider. It's not going to fix all of your problems, but it's going to stop the immediate bleeding, so to speak.

• 1:21:53Speaker 03

  Isn't that what they do? If someone comes in and they're about to commit suicide, don't they give them IV ketamine? Like, I've heard that's a thing.

• 1:22:00Tim Ferriss?

  I don't know what it looks like. Actually, I'd love to hear from people in the audience who know how something like that is triaged in an ER. If somebody shows up and maybe a loved one brought them and they're like, I'm going to blow my head off, I would have to imagine there's like sedation, maybe they use some hypnotics, they might use ketamine. I don't know, but in a

• 1:22:19Speaker 03

  I had heard that once.

• 1:22:20Tim Ferriss?

  I do know, I know a number of people who were on the verge of blowing their heads off, who with competent supervised ketamine assisted therapy, I mean, literally within one or two sessions, were able to say, I don't know what I was so upset about. Like, I can't even believe I was so wound up about that. And that's incredible. It's not a indefinite fix, but to answer your question, to come back, like, there are cases in which I think it makes sense to have some type of maintenance dose, right? So let's just say you're able to strip out a bunch of the hallucinogenic or psychedelic

• 1:23:01Tim Ferriss?

  effects from LSD and it remains incredibly effective for cluster headaches, which is actually one indication. And the best combination of effect and minimizing side effects is to have like some small dose for five days a week. Great. Fantastic. But if you're trying to process or contend with some type of childhood trauma that has been plaguing your automatic behaviors and maybe addictions, perhaps self-destructive or otherwise destructive behaviors, then I don't know if what we need is a maintenance drug. There may be more psychological surgery

• 1:23:45Tim Ferriss?

  required for that, in which case perhaps the content does play a meaningful role. I happen to believe that's the case in many instances. But 10 years from now, psychedelics is going to be crazy because it's subject to these market forces and these incentives. So don't ask a barber if you need a haircut kind of situation. If you go to an orthopedic surgeon and you're like, do I need surgery? They're not all going to say you need surgery, but they have a certain incentive to do surgery. Realizing that in advance is important. But I do think what we will find through the study of psychedelics is even if psychedelics as compounds were to disappear 10 years from now, let's just say, let's just say

• 1:24:29Tim Ferriss?

  they go back to being reclassified, rescheduled, and then all over the place. And then who knows, like some senator's kid jumps off a balcony and then the whole thing goes kaput and it's thrown back into psychedelic scientific winter. Even if that's the case, within the next 10 to 15 years, I think we will learn so many new things about the functioning of the mind and processing of trauma, metabolizing of difficult experience, and issues such as treatment-resistant depression, complex PTSD, that the treatment paradigms will shift even if the compounds disappear, which I don't think they will. And I also think

• 1:25:13Tim Ferriss?

  there are so many indications that do not require high doses of psychedelics, which will be well-treated with lower doses of psychedelics. So I'm excited to see what bears out. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Anything else you wanted to cover?

• 1:25:31Tim Ferriss?

  I think that's it for me. Yeah. I'm, I'm good as well. It was awesome. Yeah. Good to see you, brother. Yeah. Good to see you too, man. Thanks for having me over for dinner. Yeah. Sitting on our, our couch here. Mr. Toast is in the background for those watching the audience. Yeah. 12 and doing well. Yeah. Passed out. So, you know, not that long. Well, it is, I mean, it is long ago. Not in like historical evolutionary terms, but in like our lifetime terms, a while ago, like we had, we had a shot very much like this in San Francisco and one here.

• 1:26:02Tim Ferriss?

  I don't want to say first apartments, but A shitty apartment. Earlier apartments with a couch like this and Toast walked by as a puppy and chewed through one of these. Audio cables. XLR cables. Totally. Back then I had a little bit of hair. That's right. Isn't that crazy that you had hair back then? Yeah. It's weird. It's weird. Somebody was asking me, they're like, yeah, but you could probably figure out how to regrow hair. And I'm like, yeah, but if I just suddenly like disappeared for six months and then reappeared with like a huge mop on my head. I mean, that's what Elon Musk did. Did you see the early Elon Musk pictures where he was bald? Yeah. You could do it.

• 1:26:39Tim Ferriss?

  I could do it, but I, A, I don't, I don't feel the need. B, I just think especially from my friends, I would get so much endless shit. Do you think you should do it? Blas and Dari right now. She said, no. No. No. Yeah. It's Tim Tim. Yeah. No. Mr. Clean. I've grown into the Mr. Clean look. I'm good. I'm good with it. Uh, all right, brother. All right. We'll do this again in a few months. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. See more of each other in person. All right. Peace. Peace.

• 1:27:10Tim Ferriss?

  Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off and that is five bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called five bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including

• 1:27:50Tim Ferriss?

  a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog/friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog/friday, drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Shopify is one of my favorite companies out there, one of my favorite platforms ever. And let's get into it. Shopify is a platform, as I mentioned, designed for anyone to sell anything, anywhere, giving entrepreneurs

• 1:28:33Tim Ferriss?

  the resources once reserved for big business. So what does that mean? That means in no time flat, you can have a great looking online store that brings your ideas, products and so on to life, and you can have the tools to manage your day to day business and drive sales. This is all possible without any coding or design experience whatsoever. Shopify instantly lets you accept all major payment methods. Shopify has thousands of integrations and third party apps from on demand printing to accounting to advanced chatbots, anything you can imagine. They probably have a way to plug and play and make it happen. Shopify is what I wish I had had when I was venturing into ecommerce way back in the early 2000s. What they've done is pretty remarkable. I first met the founder, Toby, in 2008 when

• 1:29:16Tim Ferriss?

  I became an advisor, and it's been spectacular. I've loved watching Shopify go from roughly 10 to 15 employees at the time to 7,000 plus today, serving customers in 175 countries with total sales on the platform exceeding $400 billion. What does that really mean? That means every 28 seconds, more or less, a small business owner makes their first sale on Shopify. More people in more places of all ages every single day. They power millions of entrepreneurs from their first sale all the way to full scale. You would recognize a lot of large companies that also use them who started small. So get started by building and customizing your online store again with no coding or design experience required.

• 1:30:01Tim Ferriss?

  Access powerful tools to help you find customers, drive sales and manage your day to day. Gain knowledge and confidence with extensive resources to help you succeed. And I've actually been involved with some of that way back in the day, which was awesome. The build a business competition and other things. Plus the 24 seven support, you're never alone. And let's face it, being an entrepreneur can be lonely, but you have support. You have resources. You don't need to feel alone in this case. More than a store Shopify grows with you and they never stop innovating, providing more and more tools to make your business better and your life easier. Go to Shopify.com slash Tim. That's S H O P I F Y dot com slash Tim.

• 1:30:43Tim Ferriss?

  All lowercase for a free trial and get full access to Shopify's entire suite of features. Start selling on Shopify today. Go to Shopify.com slash Tim right now and check it out. They have a lot to offer. Shopify.com slash Tim.

• 1:31:00Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time what I would take if I could only take one supplement. I've been asked this for years. The answer is invariably AG1 by Athletic Greens. I view it as all in one nutritional insurance. So you can cover your bases. If you're traveling, if you're just busy, if you're not sure if your meals are where they should be, it covers your bases. I've recommended it since the four hour body, which was God eons ago, 2010, and I did not get paid to do so. With approximately 75 vitamins, minerals and whole food sourced ingredients, you'll be hard pressed to find a more nutrient dense formula on the market. It has a multivitamin, multi mineral greens complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut health

• 1:31:44Tim Ferriss?

  and immunity formula, digestive enzymes and adaptogens. You get the idea. It is very, very comprehensive. And I do my best, of course, to focus on nutrient dense, proper meals. But sometimes you're busy, sometimes you're traveling, sometimes you just want to make. Make sure that you're getting what you need. AG1 makes it easy to get a lot of nutrition when whole foods aren't readily available. It's also NSF certified for sport, making it safe for competitive athletes as what's on the label is in the powder. It's the ultimate all-in-one nutritional supplement bundle in one easy scoop. Right now Athletic Greens is giving my audience a special offer on top of their all-in-one

• 1:32:24Tim Ferriss?

  formula, which is a free vitamin D supplement and five free travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Many of us are deficient in vitamin D. I've found that true for myself, which is usually produced in our bodies from sun exposure. So adding a vitamin D supplement to your daily routine is a great option for additional immune support. Support your immunity, gut health, and energy by visiting athleticgreens.com/tim. You'll receive up to a year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your subscription. Again, that's athleticgreens.com/tim.