#251: How to Live Without Limits - Kyle Maynard

Kyle Maynard (@kylemaynard https://twitter.com/kylemaynard) is a motivational speaker, bestselling author, entrepreneur, and ESPY award-winning mixed martial arts athlete, known for becoming the first quadruple amputee to reach the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro and Mount Aconcagua without the aid of prosthetics. Oprah Winfrey called Kyle "one of the most inspiring young men you will ever hear about." Arnold Schwarzenegger described him as "the real deal," "a champion human," and "one of the most inspiring people" he's ever met. Even the great Wayne Gretzky has spoken of Kyle's "greatness." Despite being born with a rare condition that left him with arms that end at the elbows and legs that end near his knees, he learned early on with the support of his family to live life independently and without prosthetics. Kyle thrives on physical challenges and, following a few rough middle school football seasons, he went on to become a champion wrestler, CrossFit Certified Instructor and gym owner, competitive MMA/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighter, world record-setting weightlifter, and skilled mountaineer. This episode comes from my new television show Fear{less} http://tim.blog/fearless, where I interview world-class performers on stage about how they've overcome doubt, conquered fear, and made their toughest decisions. You can watch the entire first episode with illusionist David Blaine for free at att.net/fearless http://att.net/fearless. (To watch all episodes, please visit DIRECTV NOW http://directvnow.com/.) We recorded three hours of material and only one hour was used for the TV show. This podcast episode is almost entirely new content that didn't appear on TV. Enjoy! Show notes and links for this episode can be found at www.fourhourworkweek.com/podcast http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/podcast. This podcast is brought to you by WordPress https://WordPress.com/Tim, my go-to platform for 24/7-supported, zero downtime blogging, writing online, creating websites -- everything! I love it to bits, and the lead developer, Matt Mullenweg, has appeared on this podcast many times. Whether for personal use or business, you're in good company with WordPress https://WordPress.com/Tim -- used by The New Yorker, Jay-Z, FiveThirtyEight, TechCrunch, TED, CNN, and Time, just to name a few. A source at Google told me that WordPress https://WordPress.com/Tim offers "the best out-of-the-box SEO imaginable," which is probably why it runs nearly 30% of the Internet. Go to WordPress.com/Tim https://WordPress.com/Tim to get 15% off your website today! This podcast is also brought to you by 99Designs http://99designs.com/tim, the world's largest marketplace of graphic designers. I have used them for years to create some amazing designs. When your business needs a logo, website design, business card, or anything you can imagine, check out 99Designs. I used them to rapid prototype the cover http://99designs.com/tim for The Tao of Seneca http://tim.blog/2017/07/06/tao-of-seneca/, and I've also had them help with display advertising and illustrations. If you want a more personalized approach, I recommend their 1-on-1 service http://99designs.com/tim. You get original designs from designers around the world. The best part? You provide your feedback, and then you end up with a product that you're happy with or your money back. Click this link http://www.99designs.com/tim and get a free $99 upgrade. Give it a test run...

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a personal question?

• 0:08Speaker 00

  No, this is inappropriate time.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 0:23Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by WordPress, my go-to platform for blogging, writing online, creating websites, everything. I love WordPress 2 bits. My site, every site just about that I have, is run on WordPress. And the lead developer of WordPress, Matt Mullenweg, has appeared on this podcast many times. The very first episode in particular is amazing. The second, I took a ton of notes on, so you should check it out. But WordPress, where do I even begin? I mean, The New Yorker uses it, Jay-Z, Beyonce, they use it, 538, TechCrunch, TED, CNN, Time. Whether you are looking to create a personal blog, a business site, both, neither, something else,

• 1:08Tim Ferriss?

  you'll make a huge impact when you build your website on wordpress.com. And directly from some friends at Google, I'm not going to quote them by name, but they say that WordPress offers the best out-of-the-box SEO, that's search engine optimization imaginable. So if you're on WordPress, you immediately have a leg up on everybody else on search engines and so forth. In my experience, I'm no medical doctor of search engine optimization, but I will say that I used WordPress for years and fell in love with it to the extent that I became very close friends with Matt and then became an investor slash advisor to Automattic, which runs wordpress.com.

• 1:53Tim Ferriss?

  That is how much I believe in this, and that's how a lot of my most successful products and investments have come about, because I'm in love with X and then I seek out X. Nearly 30% of the internet is run on WordPress. And that includes everything from the huge sites. That I mentioned to neighborhood sites. And it is super easy to get started. There's no need to worry about security or upgrades or hosting. They offer 24/7 support and handle all of that, which allows you to focus on creating the highest quality content that you can with the least amount of friction. I don't have to worry about downtime. I don't want to have to worry about getting emergency emails if I'm on vacation or something like that. And WordPress is my go-to solution for all of this.

• 2:38Tim Ferriss?

  I trust all of my most important text on the internet to WordPress. And they can't buy that with a sponsorship. They can't buy that with anything. I want uptime, uptime, uptime and quality. And that is what I have selected after everything that I've looked at. So check it out. Go to WordPress. That's W-O-R-D-P-R-E-S-S dot com. WordPress dot com forward slash Tim to receive 15% off of your website today. That's WordPress dot com forward slash Tim. This episode is brought to you by 99designs. I've used 99designs for years for all sorts of graphic design needs. Whether you need a logo, website, book cover, or anything else, 99designs was created to

• 3:23Tim Ferriss?

  make great designs accessible to everyone and to make the process of getting designs much, much easier. So when I first started out, for instance, testing prototype covers and getting prototype covers for the 4-Hour Body, I want the contest drop. That is one option. This is a great solution if you're looking for fast, affordable design work and the ability to choose from dozens of options, risk-free. Let's say you need something late-night, quick turnaround. Well, people in other time zones, other countries can also help you solve that problem. Since then, I've worked with 99designs on a separate path or a different option, and that is the one-to-one project service. So, in a number of cases, and I'll give you one example.

• 4:05Tim Ferriss?

  When I wanted to create the cover for my audiobook, The Tao of Seneca, this was a very important project to me, I decided to use their one-to-one project service. And with this service, you can invite a specific designer to your project, agree on a price, and then work together until you're satisfied and they allow you to iterate and provide feedback and all this stuff. And I haven't shared it yet, but we also got some incredibly good, really some of the best illustrations I've ever seen from using this one-to-one project service with a handful of different designers and illustrators. It blew my mind. 99designs makes this all very easy and efficient. So you can check out the Tao of Seneca design and other work that I, and your fellow listeners for that matter, have done on 99designs at 99designs.com/tim.

• 4:50Tim Ferriss?

  And right now, you can get a free $99 upgrade on your first design. Again, that's 99designs.com/tim.

• 5:01Tim Ferriss?

  Guten Tag, ladies and gentlemen. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers of all different types. This episode features Kyle Maynard, and you're gonna wanna check him out, I promise. And on Twitter, you can say hello, @KyleMaynard, K-Y-L-E-M-A-Y-N-A-R-D. People often ask me, who inspires you? Who do you look up to? One immediate answer is Kyle Maynard. Despite being born without full arms or legs, he has gone on to achieve feats of athleticism and much more that most people would only dream of. They might not even think of dreaming of these things. This includes being the first quadruple amputee to climb Mount Kilimanjaro without the aid

• 5:45Tim Ferriss?

  of prosthetics, being inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame, as in collegiate wrestling, believe it, and competing professionally in mixed martial arts. He is just a phenom. And we actually had a chance to do a short wrestling demo with takedowns that almost broke my knee and then an arm throw on video, which you can see. And in this episode, we cover many stories that Kyle has never discussed or shared publicly before. The audio comes from my new TV show, Fearless, and that is fear less with less in parentheses because it's about learning to fear less, where I interview world-class performers onstage

• 6:26Tim Ferriss?

  about how they've overcome doubt, conquered fear, and made some of their toughest decisions. You can watch the entire first episode with David Blaine, the illusionist and endurance artist, for free at att.net/fearless. Again, that's att.net/fearless. And to watch all of the episodes, there are 10 of them. Including the episode with Kyle, please visit DirecTV now. So you can just Google DirecTV now. DirecTV with one T. So not direct TV, but DirecTV. We recorded three hours of material and only one hour was used for the TV show. This podcast episode is almost entirely new content that did not appear on television. So I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

• 7:08Tim Ferriss?

  So without further ado, here is the incredible Kyle Maynard.

• 7:18Tim Ferriss?

  Welcome to Fearless. I'm your host, Tim Ferriss. And on this stage, we'll be deconstructing world-class performers of all types to uncover the specific tactics they've used to overcome doubt, tackle hard decisions, and ultimately succeed on their own terms. My guest tonight is a member of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame, New York Times bestselling author, and has summited Mount Kilimanjaro, among others. He inspires audiences around the world with this message, and he conquers challenges with his own unique style. Please welcome to the stage, athlete, author, and mountaineer Kyle Maynard.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  All right, guys. What's up? A little around the world. What's up, everybody? How's it going? Boom.

• 8:14Tim Ferriss?

  How many siblings do you have?

• 8:16Speaker 03

  Three sisters.

• 8:16Tim Ferriss?

  Three sisters.

• 8:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, what doesn't kill you.

• 8:23Tim Ferriss?

  Yep. I grew up with one little brother, so I was the bastard in that relationship. I'm the like, I need to try this wrestling move on you, like running around the house. Don't run away. No, this is gonna be fun. That was, I was on the inflicting side, unfortunately.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  There are a lot of grown men. I'd rather fight than my sisters.

• 8:41Tim Ferriss?

  Your dad seems like a tough dude, not a bad dude, but like tough, former wrestler.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  I'm sure he's loving that right now.

• 8:49Tim Ferriss?

  He did flip at 20, so in fairness, but how were your parents parenting styles different?

• 8:56Speaker 03

  There was a difference for sure, and I think it was like it was a good balance. Wrestling, my dad was like, he wanted me to be the finesse wrestler, you know? And my mom was like, she told me, if you put somebody in enough pain on the mat with you, like they'll find a way to get out, they'll find a way to get off the mat. And like that was, she was like, had this like tenacity.

• 9:17Tim Ferriss?

  That's like a Cobra Kai.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  Right, exactly, totally.

• 9:22Tim Ferriss?

  Take the leg.

• 9:23Speaker 03

  It was.

• 9:24Tim Ferriss?

  What, mom?

• 9:25Speaker 03

  Thanks, mom.

• 9:27Tim Ferriss?

  When did your grandparents enter the picture in terms of your close relationship with them?

• 9:33Speaker 03

  Like hours after I was born, yeah, they were there the whole time.

• 9:37Tim Ferriss?

  And what was your, what was your relationship like with your, with your grandparents?

• 9:41Speaker 03

  I mean, it's been the best without them. I mean, they were everything to me, you know? I gotta like choke back the tears sometimes. I mean, my grandma, so she passed last year, and it was really like a big moment for me in terms of kind of like that awakener of like, what is my life about really, you know? My grandma, you know, you know, so she kind of said this, you know, from her experiences, you know, in like a religious background, but I think it can be sort of even like a more universal sense if you apply this, like she said that Kyle, like God doesn't make mistakes, you know, like, and I take that to go in mean too, even like the universe doesn't make mistakes, right, that they're, and, and whether or not that's true, it doesn't matter, but it's a cool, it's an interesting place to come from, right? The Stoics talked a lot about like fate and like how we're on this path and this trajectory,

• 10:25Speaker 03

  and like whether or not that's true, it doesn't really matter, but if we go and, you know, act as if it's so, and that things are as they should be, it's just a better place to be, I think. I used to pray every night, like when I was a kid, like I would just like wait, wish that I could wake up and have arms and legs. You know, and if I had spent my entire life focused on that, it would have been a different life.

• 10:49Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 10:50Speaker 03

  But she was everything. I mean, she, she, I think that the most powerful lesson that she ever taught me was, um, we used to go around in grocery stores together, just up and down the aisles of the grocery store. And sometimes, you know, when, um, we would meet people, I mean, she would just, she would teach me, says, as soon as people hear your voice and they see your face and they shake your hand, they'll totally forget about the disability. And, you know, it's like a embedded, like hypnotic command almost, you know, it's like, that's like so much of my life has been colored by that. And everybody that I meet now, you know, I want to meet them and then 15 minutes after, it's not really, the disability is not like that, that big of a deal.

• 11:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  So. Grandma Betty. But now I can, it's kind of funny too, cause like I can read people's eyes in terms of like, you know, almost like you can see like subtitles rolling across sometimes, right? And I go to like shake somebody's hand and 99% of the time I get a normal handshake back or whatever, fist bump, you know, and then like at that 1% of the time, or less, maybe one out of a couple hundred, I see this like just fear and panic, right? You go to shake their hand and they're like pause and it's like, guy doesn't have an arm, what is he, wanted me to do, oh my God, like. And I just hang out and wait and they come in for like an awkward elbow bump or something like. Like, thanks, bro, that was awesome. That was really cool.

• 12:11Tim Ferriss?

  I like how you process that. Good work. What about your grandfather?

• 12:17Speaker 03

  He, uh, my grandpa, um, for one, super smart and I did not inherit those, uh, those genes. He, um, I mean, like, super smart. He was like valedictorian and engineer is like, you know, um, valedictorian at, um, University of Illinois as an engineer. I mean, he was in, with his mindset, him and my dad, my dad is a engineer as well. And they really, you know, were just great at being able to figure out ways to be able to go and adapt different things, you know, and like the, the actual tools of, of what would be helpful.

• 12:47Tim Ferriss?

  Problem solvers.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally, man.

• 12:50Tim Ferriss?

  I didn't learn to swim, believe it or not, till I was in my 30s. When did you learn to swim?

• 12:54Speaker 03

  I was on, it's funny, I was on Howard Stern and he called my dad a dick for this. But my dad basically put me in the middle of the pool, taught me how to float on my back. And as soon as he thought that I was like, good and I got it, then he got out of the pool. And he was like, now figure out how to get out. So.

• 13:16Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  So we really started crying just straight to the bottom of the pool, right? So it was, but you know, kinda, yeah, I was like probably four years old, something like that, three or four.

• 13:24Tim Ferriss?

  Wow.

• 13:27Tim Ferriss?

  Was the writing, if you had writing, eating, swimming, what was the most difficult of those? And is there something else that I'm missing aside from asking girls out? That was particularly difficult for you?

• 13:40Speaker 03

  The physical stuff was, was less taxing to kind of like figure out. There was, you know, I kinda had this idea, this belief, like, you know, that there would always be a way, there'd be some tool. Driving in particular was a little bit trickier, you know, I was a little bit older because it was, um, I, I wanna be, in, in terms of like the adaptations and equipment that I use, a lot more sort of Spartan, right? Like, I want things to be very simple, very mechanical, like very little, you know, few points of failure. And, um, the first vehicle that, um, this group, an amazing group that helps people with spinal injuries in Atlanta, wanted to go and help have me drive was this massive, this massive Ford van. And it was like this huge thing with like, um, it was like, had these touchscreen computers, but this is back in like 2002 or 2003, right?

• 14:24Speaker 03

  And so these touchscreen computers and like joystick for the, you know, gas, the brake. And I'm like, oh my, this is crazy, right? I'm driving in like tiny lanes in Atlanta, rush hour traffic with this like giant death trap. Like, it was just this tank that's going down, barely down the highway. And I'm like, I, no, never again, I'm not doing that again, you know, like not control the leading on the freaking highway. Like, there's no way. And like, so.

• 14:50Tim Ferriss?

  Escape, escape.

• 14:52Speaker 03

  Literal, right? Check. But now, I mean, and so they have pedals that, um, drive just a, like an SUV. And it's just got basically lifted up and extended pedals, very simple. You pop into my car and drive it and it's like, um, just put your legs underneath it and the, um, you know, use my left foot to hit the brake and my right foot to hit the gas and grab the steering wheel with my arms. And, um, my mountain guide friend actually, who's done some pretty scary things, like climbed Everest and stuff, said that like one of the scariest moments of his life was when he's driving with me for the first time and I grabbed my phone to like answer it while we're driving.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  I got like the Bluetooth thing going now, so.

• 15:35Tim Ferriss?

  I want to talk a little bit about Cub Scouts.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Sweet.

• 15:39Tim Ferriss?

  Just in general, just forget all these people, I want to talk about the Cub Scouts. Should I join? No. The, I read a story about a cave. Could you talk a little bit about your experience?

• 15:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think this is like where I found my, my environment. I found my homeland, you know, it was like Gimli in Lord of the Rings or something, you know.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  I, I mean, in a sub-training environment, I realized it was like this great equalizer. So we went to this cave in Indiana as in the Boy Scouts. I mean, my dad, my grandpa were there and, you know, so you got to crawl through these like tunnels and, you know, right? And it's like these tiny wet cave tunnels. And I was like, awesome, like just sprinted past everybody, right? Like this is great. I don't know why it's so hard for everyone, but.

• 16:26Tim Ferriss?

  What drove you to the athletics? And what, what came first? I guess the street hockey, was that sort of the first competitive sport? I don't know.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  I didn't, so the first like team sport that I played was, was football and then wrestling. But it was like, I always had this interest in, in sports. I was obsessed, you know, and had this delusion of like, you know, I'd be in the NBA someday. Or like, you know, I'd be like, you know, I was a big Atlanta Braves fan and like John Smoltz or Greg Maddox, like throwing fastballs and, you know, changeups and stuff. I'm like, and I think the really cool thing was is that my parents did let me have this like, have this dream. They didn't like squelch it. My mom was a little bit more pragmatic, I think. So when I did go to play football, you know, she was telling me that, you know, you might be the, like, you might be the water boy in the team. They're going to find a place for you. And in my head, like I said, like, you know, I want to be the quarterback. I want to be throwing the spiral touchdowns.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  And it was interesting how those dreams, they didn't like, as you kind of, I'm sure as you know, you can relate, right? Like the dreams that you may have had at a certain point, they didn't manifest exactly how you saw them go. But it set you on this path and this journey that then takes you down other turns and corridors. And you go into other directions that you never would have imagined before.

• 17:37Tim Ferriss?

  So the GNC's world's strongest team. Started with 10 pounds, got up to 210 each arm. What was that, the world's strongest team for GNC? That was bench press, right?

• 17:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it was basically, I was 17, 18 years old. It was like, we just kind of picked like a weight, 240 pounds, and I just did as many repetitions as I could. Sort of like a combine-esque kind of situation. And ended up at that competition, so did 23 repetitions at that and weighed about like 120 pounds at the time. But it's just crazy because like, I think, so I opened a gym about eight years ago and, you know, frequently when someone would come into the gym and like talk to me, a lot of times, or not just me, but one of our coaches, they would go and point at somebody doing something amazing, and then they would go and say like, "There's no way I can go and do that." You know? And I hear that all the time. And it's like, to me, it's like, you know, you have no idea where that person started. You have no idea like the massive amount of failure that went in to being able to go

• 18:33Speaker 03

  and get to that point where then they were doing something awesome. But the difference was they stuck it out, they did the work, and then that was the result. So, you know, it's like, I think if I could go back in time and tell that 10-year-old that was really struggling, like, yeah, someday you'd be able to go and lift that weight or travel the world as a speaker, you know, have businesses and, you know, date some amazing girls or all of that. It's just different experiences or climb some of the highest peaks in the world. Like, if I could tell that 10-year-old that, you know, it would almost seem like a fantasy story.

• 19:05Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  And I think that in coming back to that question that we talked about of like veterans, you know, and somebody maybe that's at a really hard spot, you know, if they could talk to someone 10 or 20 years, you know, like a version of themselves 10 or 20 years later, after they had really faced some of these fears, then I think that they would have their mind blown as to what they'd be able to achieve, for sure.

• 19:34Tim Ferriss?

  Was it, you mentioned the gym, which brings this to mind, and I've already alluded to this, this is like the red doorknob in 6th Sense, so I'll get to my question, which is, Georgia, why did you guys move to Georgia?

• 19:44Speaker 03

  It was, my grandparents moved down and-

• 19:47Tim Ferriss?

  And this was, I guess, what, 6th grade?

• 19:49Speaker 03

  6th grade, yeah. Grandparents moved down, I mean, just like, we were in Indiana and it's just, you know, it was like, the snow and like, all that. It was the best thing that happened, I think, in doing the move and going to Georgia, but it was also at the time, it felt like the worst, you know, it was, I tried to stage a family coup de tat, to like, try to like, overthrow my dad and go back to Indiana, you know, it was like, I just, I noticed that a lot, you know, now, kind of get to sort of quasi mentor and help a lot of different kids with disabilities and, and I noticed that those transitory periods, anytime like, where there's a major transition in someone's life, with a move or going, say you're going from middle school to high school, or high

• 20:29Speaker 03

  school to college, or college to like, the, you know, the world, then, it's, it's those periods of transition that are the most difficult. And, cause it's like, my friends in Indiana saw me as Kyle, it saw me as normal, and now I've got to go and like, re-acclimatize an entire new group of people in Georgia.

• 20:48Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. How, how did you, I mean, I imagine the sports is a huge tool in the toolkit for that, right? I mean, you jawbreak a few dozen people, they're like, Kyle, I'm good with Kyle, Kyle's good-

• 21:02Speaker 03

  Bodies everywhere, right?

• 21:03Tim Ferriss?

  It's like a war movie. Don't mess with that kid, better be his friend. So what, what helped you in that transition, aside from the sports? I mean, what was the self-talk, or what did your parents or grandparents say to you?

• 21:16Speaker 03

  I think they were, they were very much, my mom especially, trying to constantly, you know, she was- She's like a big, she used to always talk about like psychos and headaches, you know, and all this stuff, right? She like, she knew, she would just talk about kind of mind over matter and like just be drilling things in my head of like focusing on the positive and all that. So it was really, I'm super glad that she, she had that perspective. But you know, it wasn't always the case. My mind didn't always obviously go there. And differently, probably the, one of the most difficult transitions that I faced was going from, I was a freshman at University of Georgia and write a book. And as you know, when you go and launch a book, then it's like it changes your life pretty dramatically.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  And you know, the whole book tour and all this stuff. Got to be on Oprah and Larry King when I was 19. And it was like, just I went from being a full-time college student to full-time business traveler overnight. And in my community, people knew me and they knew, you know, not that I, like, the disability and stuff like that wasn't as, you know, they didn't make it that big of an issue. But when I'd be gone and traveling, especially when I was traveling by myself, then many people looked at me very differently. And you know, of course I want to help and things like that. And I've had some pretty hilarious events where it was like, for sure, I learned that one of my like bigger challenges was like accepting help. But there were some times where I knew that it would just be better and easier if I like, whatever it was, did it on my own, right?

• 22:42Speaker 03

  One time, I'm in the New York airport in LaGuardia. It was a really super steep jetway. And this guy and I get in a little bit of an argument where he tells me, he works at the airport and he's telling me he has to push my wheelchair down this jetway. I'm like, no, no, I'd be better, you know, better if I did it. Like, and he's like, no, I have to, it's a liability. And I'm like, we go back and forth, finally I give in. But this guy was like the tallest human being I've ever seen, literally. And he goes and takes about three steps down the jetway and he gets his foot caught in the back of my wheelchair and he goes down. So he doesn't just like let go, he just launched me down the jetway. And like, I'm sped up and I can see the people, their eyes at the bottom like, this is it,

• 23:24Speaker 03

  he's coming, like, what are we doing? And I tried to grab the wall to slow myself down. And it was like this big streak of blood came down. This is a big CSI crime scene. And I'm like, wow. And I hit the bottom of the, you know, ramp and all that and like flipped out of chair. And I was laughing hysterically when I'd survived. And like, it-

• 23:45Tim Ferriss?

  You're like, "Good liability coverage, well, thanks for that."

• 23:48Speaker 03

  I was like, "Dude, just, it's all good. Never, ever help me again, please."

• 23:53Tim Ferriss?

  Stop helping me.

• 23:58Speaker 03

  My coach used to stay after in practice and he would literally tuck his arms into his sleeves and wrestle from my perspective, you know, and try to, for hours, like, just try to figure out moves they could go and do. I think a lot of times, too, we look at things and we forget, like, you know, we look at one person that's achieved something great and we're like, "Oh, man, that one, that person," right? And we don't see the massive amount of people, the hundreds of people or thousands of people that have poured, you know, their life into, like, trying to help that person.

• 24:25Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, for sure. I read an essay by Arnold Schwarzenegger recently, which was, "I am not a self-made man." And he basically made the same point. It's like, people ask me all the time, "Is a self-made man blah blah?" He's like, "Let me stop you right there, because you don't see these, all of these other people, all the other input." Did jiu-jitsu come into the picture first or opening of the gym?

• 24:47Speaker 03

  The jiu-jitsu came in because I saw some Gracie videos and I was like, "I want to try this stuff."

• 24:52Tim Ferriss?

  Gracie's in action?

• 24:53Speaker 03

  Right, Gracie, yeah, there was probably some Gracie's in action and...

• 24:56Tim Ferriss?

  The footage of the cheetahs catching the...

• 24:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 24:59Tim Ferriss?

  This is like, VHS, 90s.

• 25:01Speaker 03

  It was like, 80's, 80's, right? Exactly, it was classic.

• 25:05Tim Ferriss?

  Early days.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  Early days, like, man, but yeah, so much, I mean, like, I saw those videos and I was like, "Whoa, like, another human's able to do this to another human? Like, I have to learn." And I went in and I got choked out by a girl and I was like, super quick, too. She triangle choked me, slapped it on, I was like, "Out." You know, and I was like, wrestling, club level, but still like, preparing to go to the nationals in good shape.

• 25:29Tim Ferriss?

  Wrestlers love to get caught in triangles.

• 25:31Speaker 03

  Totally, it's the worst, you know? She's all the bad habits, like...

• 25:35Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, God, I really want to demo a triangle choke now, but we're going to save that, we just got our heads all done, we just got done.

• 25:43Tim Ferriss?

  So the jiu-jitsu, I need to do that to another human being. Choke people? Yes, must do that.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  I saw this chick do this to this guy, this girl, she did it to a guy that was like 200 pounds the next day. And I was like, how could this be?

• 25:57Tim Ferriss?

  Did the jiu-jitsu then, did you get bitten by that bug before opening the gym? Or was it concurrently? What was the timeline on that?

• 26:04Speaker 03

  It was a little bit before. I'd been training for a few years and then opened the gym and actually chose to pursue a fight in MMA like within a couple of months. I mean, it was like...

• 26:13Tim Ferriss?

  It's fast.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, you know, I had tried to do an MMA fight before in 2007 and got denied.

• 26:21Tim Ferriss?

  Just the state wouldn't commission it? Or the athletic commission wouldn't sanction it?

• 26:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was the head commissioner, he was in wheelchair actually. He told me, I think this is amazing what you're doing here for people with disabilities and we support you doing this. And then at a commission meeting, it won't be a problem to get your license, it's an amateur fight in Georgia. And then like a couple of weeks before the fight, like I don't know, there was a big outcry on the internet. A lot of people had opinions about things and said some pretty gnarly stuff. And I mean, my sisters were like crying reading some of this stuff, you know? People saying, you know, Kyle's a limbless freak show, doing this to get back on TV? And come take a chainsaw and cut off my arms and legs so I can get on TV too? You know, like the super classy YouTube comments, right?

• 27:02Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 27:02Speaker 03

  And so, yeah, it was kind of my first time doing something that was very polarizing like that. And it was an unique experience and it was also coupled around right around the time I had just opened the gym and training for the fight, you know, and like some nights like sleeping at the gym. I mean, had opened it up and it was like coaching all the classes. I'm like the CEO, I'm also the janitor, you know? Somebody like goes and pukes during a workout, gotta go clean the toilets, like, you know? So kind of, I mean, all of those things are going on simultaneously trying to go and prepare for this fight, which is like one of the biggest events of my life. And it was a wild experience, but I look back on that, it was amazing. Some of my best friends, actually some of them, one of them is here, was a director of a, we produced a documentary on it.

• 27:44Speaker 03

  ESPN bought and then now it's on Netflix, but it's an amazing journey.

• 27:48Tim Ferriss?

  What's the doc called?

• 27:49Speaker 03

  It's called The Fighting Chance.

• 27:50Tim Ferriss?

  Fighting Chance. So that was your first time sort of being thrown to the internet wolves, in a sense?

• 27:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, no thing or two.

• 27:57Tim Ferriss?

  They're hungry. Oh, I do know a thing or two about that. What did you learn from that? What did you take away from that? That can be, I mean, it is a really, no matter what, a really difficult experience. But you also then, I mean, you have your family reading these things. What did you learn from that? Or actually, and I could phrase it a different way, you can tackle it however you'd like. If you were to give yourself advice just before getting into that situation, what would you have said?

• 28:24Speaker 03

  Have compassion for them. Have some empathy for them and understand that like even, you know, all they're doing is they're projecting my capabilities based on their own experiences. And imagining like if I were in Kyle's shoes, then of course, you know, like whatever, then I wouldn't be able to go do this or that. And if you don't have any experience, like if I've never trained with you or whatever, then it would make sense, a guy going into a fight, you know, punching and kicking as loud, you know, choking as loud, all of that stuff. It's like, seems like crazy and ridiculous. Until if we train together, I can change your perspective, right? Then it's like, so they didn't, you know, in their map of the world and their understanding, then it was like, I get it, it makes perfect sense.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  And at the same time, in the cage, I got to sit in there and be the first time in there looking out, not as a spectator, but as a participant. And it was like, such a cool view, man. It was like, wow, like 99.99% of the people that said those things would never have that view because they're so busy talking shit that they don't live their life to then have that experience. And there's a Teddy Roosevelt thing, a quote, you know, from a speech that he gave. But this excerpt is called "Man in the Arena."

• 29:44Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  And that, I really encourage everyone here, I mean, to go and check that out. It made a huge impact on me.

• 29:50Tim Ferriss?

  "Man in the Arena," definitely check it out. You know what I also, because I was in the middle of getting dragged through the mud at one point for some like minor infraction on the universe, I don't remember what it was, but just like getting stoned to death on the internet by some like minor contingent of rabble-rousers. And I was just really down on myself when I watched Ratatouille and the Anton Ego review at the end. I'm gonna probably take us back on track, but check it out.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  That's awesome.

• 30:18Tim Ferriss?

  When you're in the cage.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  Teddy Roosevelt and.

• 30:20Tim Ferriss?

  Teddy Roosevelt, I'm gonna class it up by bringing Ratatouille into the picture. But Men in the Arena, for sure, a must read. So you're in the octagon, or the cage. What was going through your head as you enter, like, whatever stands out in your memory? When you're warming up and like getting ready, going towards it, or getting in it? Like, what's going through your mind?

• 30:41Speaker 03

  So I started before this, like, I used to, like, in wrestling, I had overwhelming, like, like, competitive, like, you know, anxiety and like, pre-match anxiety, like, I would be overtaken by it, like, it was, and to the point where I eventually, like, wanted to know nothing about my opponents, and I remember, like, I beat a kid that was, like, super tough, and, you know, but it was like, afterwards, my coach was like, did you know he was like a two-time state champ? And if I had known going into it, I probably would have lost. So really, going in this fight, I did so much, like, visualization, and, you know, sounds kind of like woo-woo, but it was like, so much visualization, then, I think, kind of like, I felt, like, I told my, my instructor, my, my, Paul Creighton is his name, my jiu-jitsu

• 31:23Speaker 03

  coach at the time, I told him, I was like, I feel like I've been here, like, 10 times, like, this is like my 10th or 12th fight, because I had visualized it so much, that when I finally got there, I was able to be calm enough to be able to enjoy that moment.

• 31:35Tim Ferriss?

  What happened in the fight?

• 31:37Speaker 03

  So it wasn't the most exciting fight in the world, my, my goal, my strategy, I wanted to go and cut the cage corners off, to be able to, it was a square cage that we're fighting in, I wanted to be able to go and then work the angles, to then hit lowest angle, or whatever it was, to be able to go and drive him against the cage and take him down. Not much of a kickboxer, you know, if you can imagine, and so, a lot of it, in the first round, it's kind of baiting him towards to come to me, and, kind of uneventful, but by the second, second round, I was like, press the action, pressing him, trying to cut the corners, and all that, didn't get him down, ate some just jabs, probably the hardest shot I ate was maybe in the second round, and then, in the third round, I was like, screw this, reckless abandon, like, I'm just chasing this guy as hard and fast as I can, like, 90 seconds, and then even the announcer was like, the guy I fought was

• 32:22Speaker 03

  like, well, this guy's on his treadmill now, like, it was like more of a track event than it was an MMA fight, and I'm like, but, you know, I'm, I'm gonna go out there, and then eventually, I was like, screw this, like, you know, if, if he's not gonna come in and engage, then, like, I'm gonna force the action, I went and laid in the middle of the cage, on my back, and he came and just crushed me on the liver, and I was like, oh, bad idea, get back up.

• 32:43Tim Ferriss?

  All right, plan B, plan B.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  But you know, in the internet, it was funny. It was like, so many people said like, oh, Kyle's definitely gonna die.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  Definitely gonna die, gonna turn on the TV. It's gonna be the first televised death, you know? It was like, my other, I was training with Forrest Griffin at the time. So my other like, training partner is Forrest. It was before he was gonna fight Shogun, who's like legendary MMA fighter.

• 33:07Tim Ferriss?

  Tough dude.

• 33:08Speaker 03

  And they were like, Forrest is definitely gonna die against Shogun. He ended up beating him, but it was like, Forrest is gonna die, Kyle's gonna die. This is like, this camp's gonna provide the first two MMA deaths, like, you know? But it was, whatever, I didn't die. Unless I didn't, it's just, actually, this is the afterlife, who knows, right?

• 33:26Tim Ferriss?

  You know, I didn't want to have to be the one to tell you.

• 33:28Speaker 03

  It's awkward.

• 33:30Tim Ferriss?

  A little awkward, it's gonna be private conversation, but...

• 33:34Tim Ferriss?

  The just the training for the public exposure, the fight itself.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  By far, the most valuable thing is that it's okay to have people pissed off at me, or like, mad at me, or saying things about me, and like, whatever. And so I was like, uh, okay. I get hurt at first, I was like, I read that, and I was like, I read a lot of stuff, and I was like, man, I don't wanna say that it didn't frustrate me. And I remember like, I wrote this like, post on the underground and all that stuff, and it just like, got buried, and nobody even replied to it. It was like, this whole wave just kinda kept going, of the people talking about stuff that was out of my control, and I was like, they don't know, I wanna go and show them, and all that, and I'm finally like, you know, I think after it was done, I was like, the experience of it was like, screw that, like, I don't, I don't need to convince everyone, right? You know, there's plenty of people that I don't need to go in and convince.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  I mean, there's, it's just, we all walk around with this idea, and myself included, we all do it, right? But I try to remind myself all the time that I don't have a freaking clue what reality is. I don't know, right? I don't know, and I wanna be out in the world, like, go and try to figure that out, and just give up my assumptions and beliefs and whatever those things are, and not be tied to any one thing. We go and see stuff right now with like, the election too, and like, how polarizing everybody gets, and we go and get so gripped to like, these beliefs on one side or another. And it's not that one side or the other is better. To me, it's both the same thing. It's like, we have to sometimes be able to go and see that like, it's just, it's just our own perception, it's just our own perception. It has nothing to do with reality.

• 35:03Tim Ferriss?

  Well, you also mentioned, in a way, I mean, something, a piece of advice that was given to me at one point when I was getting very frustrated, and it was, it's not about the people who don't get it, it's about the people who do get it.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:13Tim Ferriss?

  Don't worry about the first group.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 35:15Tim Ferriss?

  And everybody has to read Man in the Arena. It is very important reading. It goes well with the Serenity Prayer. And I'm not a religious guy, but they actually go really well together. What habits do you have, practices, routines, traditions, anything to keep yourself positive? Because you're one of, at least in our interactions, one of the most consistently positive and enabling people for other folks, right? How do you keep that going? Or like, what are things that you find help to develop that or maintain it? Because for me, it's like, I have to have those things.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:56Tim Ferriss?

  It's like, go to the gym. It's like, it's not you read one book and you're done. It's not anything like that.

• 36:01Speaker 03

  I think that right now, that's probably the biggest thing that I'm struggling with in my life. You know, I travel close to 200 days a year and I'm like, just, you know, just beat up by that. And like, you know, so it's different all the time. And that sort of routine and structure is, it's definitely something that I've wanted to have more kind of consistency. You know, and I think that now I'm taking the actions towards creating that in my life. I would say the one thing that makes a difference for me is I'm actually like, I can fake extroversion well, but I'm not.

• 36:29Tim Ferriss?

  I'm the same.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:31Tim Ferriss?

  I'll need, well, I won't get it, but I'll need like 20 hours of sleep after this.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 36:35Tim Ferriss?

  Unfortunately, not in the cards, but.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  But you just, you know, and sometimes you get up and you do it anyway, even when you don't feel like doing it.

• 36:40Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 36:41Speaker 03

  And that's to think the difference with like a performer, like someone that's a high performer, like you have to do it, right? Even when you don't feel like it. But there are plenty of times when I'm at speeches and stuff like that where, you know, don't, you know, I don't feel like giving a speech that day. But get up and do it anyway. And it's, it's really a lot of it, the biggest habit, I think, that I've been conscious of lately. You know, there's so much discussion and I've, I've kind of, I talk about this in the speeches too, but it's like this, like the idea of why, right? That's a big, that's a big discussion. But I think the missing link that we have with that is there are like hundreds of whys that are occurring simultaneously for any given moment of why you're going to go and do anything. Maybe thousands, but at least.

• 37:23Speaker 03

  These hundreds. I mean, right now, you could come up with like a hundred whys on the spot, you know, if you had 10 minutes to think about it of like, why you're doing this TV show. Yeah. And not to have like judgment over those things. Some things might be business related. Some things might be making an impact on people and they're all, you know, it's, it might be just so many different inner things connected with that. And really, what I've noticed is, that's okay. And I get to go and then at that point, kind of select what is the one that's going to be the most empowering place to come from with this. In this example, you know, I was a young entrepreneur and reading your books and like, you know, looking up to you. And like, so if I come at it from this perspective of like, one of the whys of me being here would be like, oh, I want to do a good job for Tim, right? But like, that's not the most empowering why. Mm-hmm.

• 38:08Speaker 03

  I mean, that can be part of it and can coexist with the fact that like, there may be some people in this room right now that are struggling with things that are way more difficult than anything you or I have ever faced. Mm-hmm. And if one thing that either you or I could go and say could make one bit of difference with that person or people, then that to me matters way more than anything else. And I know that the, you know, all the other stuff of like, you know, look good on TV or like, do a good job for Tim, like, that would be taken care of is that, you know, doesn't even matter. Yep. But like, if my awareness is there, that's what matters.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  In so many instances, I've, I've been profoundly impacted by, by veterans that were also in some really rough spots. Like, I desperately wanted to serve. I mean, I wanted to go when nine 11 happened and, you know, we saw the planes go in the towers. I was like, I want to go. Bad, you know, send me. And would have done anything to go. And, um, you know, it was high school, right? Distosterone and all that. And, and got so many friends that are in the military now. Some of my closest friends, active duty, some retired, some injured, some not. Anybody that's ever put on that uniform, I have a tremendous respect for. And

• 39:27Speaker 03

  But on several instances and times where I've been feeling sorry for myself, you know, and I mean, I hate this word, but motivational speaker, right? Like the motivational speakers, whatever, they had bad days too, right? And you had moments where, you know, I feel like motivating, but then like I go and I meet some veterans and, you know, just have these just powerful experiences and things that like just, just really reshape the way they go and think about stuff. I remember I was just sharing with some friends today about like, you know, I went in a couple of years ago, it was a trip just back to Walter Reed and got to, got to go and visit. We actually played the documentary Fighting Chance, so we had viewing at Walter Reed

• 40:08Speaker 03

  and spent about an hour in this hospital room with this, this one kid who had recently been, been blown up pretty bad. He's 19, 20 years old, he was sitting there with his dad. And they said, you know, I mean, it was fairly recent that it happened and that when he, I was like invited him to come down and watch the movie with me. And, you know, we had maybe intimate kind of thing, 30 or 40 people in this room watching the film and like, you know, and seeing their reactions too, when the people would go and say the things that they said about me in the MMA fight, it was like powerful. I mean, there were like, some of them wanting to just like strap up and go after those guys. I'm like, whoa, you guys need to chill.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  But the, you know, so this one kid, I remember 15 minutes after the movie started and like he came, he was in his chair and he'd been blown up really, really high and lost both legs and like almost, you know, it was really high. And they said that that was like one of the first times that you got to come out of his room and like the first time that he'd come out of his room maybe and like, like one of the first times ever, like since he'd been there. And stuff like that, man, it's like, it, it put a different feeling and perspective on it because it was like, it took away the, this idea that like I needed to go and serve with a rifle that, you know, but there would be ways that I could go and serve in other ways now.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  And I'm still in, with, you know, every fiber of my being, want to go and find ways to go and, and help those that have been over there to defend us.

• 41:42Tim Ferriss?

  This is from Ryan Minnick. No excuses. Your book was published a decade ago. Is there anything about the book that you wish you could revise? And I would just tag on to that, or add or remove for that matter. Is there anything you'd change?

• 41:56Speaker 03

  Man, I don't think we have time for that. No, it's like, I mean, really, like, I think a big, I can answer that and summarize that with, it's a perfect snapshot in time of who I, of who Kyle Maynard was at 19 years old, and, you know, it's not something, you know, a big weakness that I've had, and it kind of connected to what you'd say, that even like, why speaking, right? Why am I doing that? Well, a lot of it, frankly, is, I don't have a good answer for that, because of what I've always done. In many regards, I think that the struggle sometimes that I have now is that someone will like, read my book and have me come in and speak to their group, and that's awesome,

• 42:36Speaker 03

  but it's also like, their map of who Kyle was is, is like, the 19-year-old version, and like, I'm like, might not even talk about wrestling, right? It's like, there's a lot of other stuff to talk about. So, yeah.

• 42:50Tim Ferriss?

  Do you have plans to write more books?

• 42:52Speaker 03

  I do, and, I mean, I, you know, I can't give you a PS excuse as to why I haven't. No, it's true. I think that the big reason of why I haven't, I'm kind of glad that I haven't.

• 43:01Tim Ferriss?

  Extreme pain in writing is always my excuse.

• 43:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, right, totally. Well, I actually kind of see some of your posts, I'm like, that doesn't sound like a lot of fun, you know? No, but it's, it takes a lot out of you, and at the same time, I'm like, you know, a book is a very permanent sort of medium. You know, I don't know if someday if I'll have kids or not. I have a niece and nephew, you know, and someday they'll have kids and all that, right? And they're kids, and so like, way after I'm gone, and way after you're gone, those books will still be around as sort of a way to, for people to know who you were.

• 43:30Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I always tell people, and they're like, "Yeah, I really want to write a book, like, maybe in my spare time," and I'm like, "Ugh." A mediocre book is more of a liability than a help, trust me. Can't pull that one. Can't put the toothpaste back in the toothpaste tube on that.

• 43:45Speaker 03

  That's awesome.

• 43:47Tim Ferriss?

  That's a really messy operation, it's not gonna work.

• 43:53Tim Ferriss?

  When you are traveling, what does a workout look like for you? The pain cave?

• 43:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:59Tim Ferriss?

  How do you create that on the road?

• 44:00Speaker 03

  I try to, I mean, I know that just with my body alone, I can go and make a lot of different things happen, different body weight things, and you know, I mean, if I have one dumbbell or something like that, I can go and use it. It helps for me to have like a little bit of a mat or something like that, kind of yoga mat or something to brace off of, but generally there's some form of, even like any type of object, right? Like, you know, if I need to pick up this chair and go and move it around really fast in a bunch, it might look really weird for anybody that comes in on that, but like, you know, it's...

• 44:28Tim Ferriss?

  I'm just imagining the cleaning lady like,

• 44:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:32Tim Ferriss?

  "What is happening right now? Am I on drugs?"

• 44:34Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 44:34Tim Ferriss?

  "I gotta get out of here."

• 44:35Speaker 03

  But this guy is. This guy is definitely on drugs, right?

• 44:37Tim Ferriss?

  Definitely on drugs.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  I don't want whatever he's got. Just make me move a bunch of chairs everywhere.

• 44:43Tim Ferriss?

  Worst recreational trip ever.

• 44:47Tim Ferriss?

  If you had to give a TED Talk on something that you are not known for, do you have any kind of pet obsessions, things you geek out on that you'd present on?

• 44:58Speaker 03

  I mean, it's a little bit different, but I would say it's, I'd probably give a TED Talk on parenting, but not from, like, I mean, I don't have any kids, right? So like, who am I to give a talk on that? But like, so seeing my sister as a parent is really special. My niece was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, you know, and some days are like really hard for that. Like, that's a disability that you can't necessarily always see, unless you see maybe like a glucose monitor on someone or insulin pump, but like, you know, my sister's just, I don't know, she's just awesome with that. Like, it just is really special. Like, the other day, you know, they were, she's at this birthday party and this little girl came up to her and she could see that she had like a glucose monitor on the back of her arm. It was this princess-themed birthday party, and this little girl was

• 45:42Speaker 03

  like, "You can't be a princess because you have one of those." And my immediate response was like, "Oh, well, you can't be a princess because you're the devil."

• 45:58Tim Ferriss?

  I think that's a fair response. I think it's a fair response.

• 46:03Tim Ferriss?

  You just head butter after that?

• 46:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right. The little girl, right?

• 46:05Tim Ferriss?

  Bring it!

• 46:07Speaker 03

  Oh no, the person got it on YouTube, right? Through your phone!

• 46:11Speaker 03

  But, it's like...

• 46:12Tim Ferriss?

  Don't make me break your jaw, give me the phone!

• 46:16Tim Ferriss?

  So how did your sister handle that?

• 46:18Speaker 03

  You know, she's like, she'll talk to her about it and it's just like, it's just in this like very kind of open, open, loving way and like, "Yeah, it sucks," you know, and like dealing with like the reality of it, but it's really like, they, you know, she won't let her be consumed with this like identity around like the type 1 diabetes, you know, and it's like, and kind of teaching her even at a young age, like, "Yeah, I mean, if you want to do something someday to be able to make a difference with this, like, you can."

• 46:41Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 03

  And it's like, you know, she's like four years old and then she's like, "This is the sweetest girl in my life." I mean, and she, I think that that too, and kind of her being around me and other things like that, it's kind of given her a level of like, you know, indifference about the disability, which I think is a really good thing. Like indifference there is like zero separation, it's just normal. And the only time that she's ever said anything, my niece, where we were coloring together and it was this like Elsa, you know, Elsa Nana kind of like thing that we're coloring and she was like, looked at me, she was like, "Oh, Kai Kai, you don't have hands." And I was like, "Yeah, I don't." She was like, "Huh." And we went back to coloring.

• 47:26Tim Ferriss?

  Amazing. He's like, "Wait, okay."

• 47:31Speaker 03

  I love Tool, right? Maynard James Keenan in Tool. He's like, uh, he's the man and like, I love him also too. He's a black belt in jiu-jitsu, wrestled at the Army. Yeah, I saw a guy that tried to get on stage with him one time, got past security and the guy was like, went to go and give him a hug and like, Maynard went to like, give him a hug and he hip tossed him, took the guy's back, rear naked choke, the guy's like rocking out and Maynard starts singing again and like, then the guy's hand just drops. Like, this bad stage to run up on, right? But, he's, he's a guy where I'm like...

• 48:03Tim Ferriss?

  I just wanted a hug!

• 48:07Speaker 03

  So, Maynard goes and gives up, he's this music career and he's still doing it, but it's like he's had this super successful career in music, completely gives it up, recreates himself as a winemaker.

• 48:18Tim Ferriss?

  I didn't know that.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  You didn't know that?

• 48:19Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  Dude, you're like the wine guy.

• 48:21Tim Ferriss?

  I like, well...

• 48:25Speaker 03

  I mean it.

• 48:26Tim Ferriss?

  You avid consumer.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  I'm basically, I've drank like, I don't even know, like my body weight many times over in Malbec because of you. I thought for sure you would know that.

• 48:35Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, oh yeah. No, I mean, look, I'm not gonna, I am.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  A consumer.

• 48:39Tim Ferriss?

  Gung ho in my drinking capacities.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Well, you know, in wine, though, it's like a brutal business.

• 48:44Tim Ferriss?

  Super brutal. It's kind of like, especially with the exception of a rare few, it's kind of like, okay, if you want to, I can't remember, I asked this buddy of mine, owns a bunch of bars, and I asked him why he didn't do restaurants. Like, why don't you have food on your menu? And he goes, I would rather, he's pointing to a window, he's like, I would rather put my hands behind my back, jump through that window face first, take all of my money and light it on fire in the street than start a restaurant. They explained it, but it's like.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  So he's kind of indifferent to it.

• 49:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, well, it's just like magazines, newspapers, restaurants, like you probably should just light your money on fire. And then wineries, it's like with the exception of a handful of people, very hard to make work. Brutal, brutal. And you're at the whim of acts of God, right?

• 49:28Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 49:28Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, like.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 49:29Tim Ferriss?

  You have a bad season, you have a bad season.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  I think winemakers are some of the most interesting people because I think the ones that I got to in Argentina in this last climb, and we were in the land in Malbec and spent time with this guy, the wine was Ellen Amigo and had this like, you know, super masculine, like half scorpion, half man on the label. But it said, at the end, there's only one battle that you remember, and it's the battle within. So, I mean, of course, I'm like, this could be terrible, but I'm gonna love it because of that quote, right?

• 49:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it'd be a case of that.

• 49:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, but the guy was like, testing limits and testing assumptions where he was growing grapes at altitudes that like, people said you couldn't do it.

• 50:02Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  And I love that, you know? It's like, I love that you're, you know, can go and attest to those assumptions. It's like.

• 50:08Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  That was, you know, it's in medicine, it's in everything. I mean, I just got to give a speech with Pfizer, and I talked about the treatment that my grandma went through with this, you know, and cancer, you know, oncology treatment products or some of the things that they go and make, and they did polarity that occurred and the tension that occurred inside of our family and how that treatment should go. It was really intense. And finally, I like, you know, she was dealing with oncologists that hadn't had, you know, they went to school that were like, maybe 40 or 50 years ago, right? And it was like, they're at the very tail end of their careers, and they're not updating the map, right? And there's so many things, like even fasting has had, you know, demonstrated.

• 50:50Speaker 03

  Profound effects on, you know, radiation and chemo treatments.

• 50:54Tim Ferriss?

  Oh yeah, it's incredible. I mean, you know, Dominic D'Agostino, I've interviewed a few times, incredible scientist, has looked at the effects, and it doesn't, it's not effective for all types of cancer, it's not suitable for all patients, but there are published studies looking at how it can sensitize cancer cells to different types of treatments while protecting

• 51:16Speaker 03

  The good cells.

• 51:17Tim Ferriss?

  Healthy cells. It's very, very fascinating stuff. And I just want to mention one thing, which is, you were talking about how everyone has, everyone's like Swiss cheese, you know, we all have our disabilities, just some are more visible than others perhaps.

• 51:31Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 51:31Tim Ferriss?

  So Malbec, this is, and this may be an exaggeration, that's also common in Argentina, very passionate people, they love telling stories, but Malbec was not really well-known in the world before Argentina, but it was brought from Europe, and my understanding is that it was basically treated like a garbage grape. And then the immigrants brought it to Buenos Aires, and it's turned into this world-famous wine that was discarded effectively. So, you never know where you're gonna find the strength.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  The garbage grape, man, maybe that's a book right there. Seriously, I think about this, I'm like, every one of my favorite societies to go and study of like the Spartans and the Vikings and these warrior cultures, they would have like left me to die, right? Take this one, throw him over the edge. Like, the beginning of 300, they're throwing the babies off, like, that would have been me, right? They're like, clearly.

• 52:25Tim Ferriss?

  Oh my god, so many amazing images coming up today.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  Keighley Unitedis, yeah.

• 52:29Tim Ferriss?

  I'm still thinking about you on like Coke moving your furniture around.

• 52:35Speaker 03

  Well, the night is young, right?

• 52:36Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, the night is young, that'd be a hell of a party.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  What time you got a film tomorrow?

• 52:41Tim Ferriss?

  Ferris, go get the chandelier, I'm on it!

• 52:45Tim Ferriss?

  From when you had the initial idea to do Kilimanjaro, to the point that you were actually suited up, geared and about to start the climb, how much time elapsed?

• 52:53Speaker 03

  So, sitting in the bathtub with the ice, had the idea. That was like, fall of 2010. Met my friend Dan, April 2011, and we started this project together. And then, so, April 2011, and then by January 3rd, 2012, we were on the plane flying to Africa.

• 53:13Tim Ferriss?

  You had to figure out a lot of stuff, right? I mean-

• 53:16Speaker 03

  I mean, first was getting somebody that's crazy enough to take us.

• 53:18Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 03

  Seriously, because it was like-

• 53:20Tim Ferriss?

  So, how did you convince someone to do it?

• 53:23Speaker 03

  It was, it was rough. I mean, and we, I think, so thankfully, one of my friends and mentors, this guy named Eric Weinemeyer, that was the first blind mountaineer to climb Mount Everest and every high peak in the world. And he actually just rafted the entire length of the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon.

• 53:39Tim Ferriss?

  Wow.

• 53:40Speaker 03

  Not rafted, like on a raft, he was kayaking.

• 53:43Tim Ferriss?

  Wow.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  Completely, not like, not like, like you can peek through, like, you know, when you like, put the blindfold on a little bit, like, he doesn't have- it's like crazy to think about that.

• 53:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's wild.

• 53:52Speaker 03

  And like, he's insane. He's amazing. And, you know, I sought, like, sought him out, me and my friend Dan, who helped me co-create the mission. And we, you know, Dan was the first one that was kind of like, the one crazy enough to go along with me. He'd, you know, he'd been a record-setting middle linebacker. But it was, you know, he was like 5'9" or something like that, you know? And like, had 21 on his tackles in the game. It was like, one of the most, he was just passionate, esoteric, you know, just guys that we, you know, I could connect with on that level. Almost burnt my house down, because, you know, a couple-

• 54:31Tim Ferriss?

  He was scrissless.

• 54:31Speaker 03

  Totally random story, but yeah, he like, microwaved an aluminum coffee mug, and I was doing some emails, and I turn around, there's flame shooting down by a microwave, like, bro! So, I hope he sees this, but, you know? So, it's like, but he's this kind of guy, though, that was like, he'd go and run through a brick wall.

• 54:46Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 54:47Speaker 03

  And I needed that person to go and have that belief with me. So, then, from there, we sought out Eric. Eric introduced us to our guide, Kevin Shirilla. Kevin had led, he managed Eric's base camp of Eric's Everest climb. He was the base camp manager. He's led more climbers up Kilimanjaro than I think any American. And many with disabilities led a guy almost to the Tru Summit in like a hand cranked bike. A group of like eight blind climbers up Kilimanjaro. So with Kevin, he was really the one, you know, him and his partner Kristen, they kind of made it happen.

• 55:21Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I would just want to thank you Kyle for honestly showing everyone that they can do more than they think they're capable of doing. It's a huge gift to the world.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  Ladies and gentlemen, Kyle Manner.

• 55:45Tim Ferriss?

  Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I have read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short.

• 56:27Tim Ferriss?

  It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by 99designs. I've used 99designs for years for all sorts of graphic design needs. Whether you need a logo, website, book cover, or anything else, 99designs was created to make great designs accessible to everyone and to make the process of getting designs much, much easier. So when I first started out, for instance, testing prototype covers and getting prototype covers for the 4-Hour Body, I went the contest route. That is one option.

• 57:11Tim Ferriss?

  This is a great solution if you're looking for fast, affordable design work and the ability to choose from dozens of options, risk-free. Let's say you need something late-night, quick turnaround. Well, people in other time zones, other countries can also help you solve that problem. Since then, I've worked with 99designs on a separate path or a different option, and that is the one-to-one project service. So, in a number of cases, and I'll give you one example, when I wanted to create the cover for my audiobook, The Tao of Seneca, this was a very important project to me, I decided to use their one-to-one project service. And with this service, you can invite a specific designer to your project, agree on a price, and then work together until you're satisfied. And they allow you to iterate and provide feedback and all this stuff.

• 57:55Tim Ferriss?

  And I haven't shared it yet, but we also got some incredibly good, really some of the best illustrations I've ever seen from using this one-to-one project service with a handful of different designers and illustrators. It blew my mind. 99designs makes this all very easy and efficient. So you can check out The Tao of Seneca design and other work that I, and your fellow listeners for that matter, have done on 99designs at 99designs.com/tim. And right now, you can get a free $99 upgrade on your first design. Again, that's 99designs.com/tim. This episode is brought to you by WordPress, my go-to platform for blogging, writing online, creating websites, everything.

• 58:39Tim Ferriss?

  I love WordPress to bits. My site, every site just about that I have, is run on WordPress. And the lead developer of WordPress, Matt Mullenweg, has appeared on this podcast many times. The very first episode in particular is amazing. The second, I took a ton of notes on, so you should check it out. But WordPress, where do I even begin? I mean, The New Yorker uses it, Jay-Z, Beyoncé, they use it, 538, TechCrunch, TED, CNN, Time. Whether you are looking to create a personal blog, a business site... Both, neither, something else? You'll make a huge impact when you build your website on wordpress.com.

• 59:21Tim Ferriss?

  And directly from some friends at Google, I'm not going to quote them by name, but they say that WordPress offers the best out-of-the-box SEO, that's search engine optimization imaginable. So if you're on WordPress, you immediately have a leg up on everybody else on search engines and so forth. In my experience, I'm no medical doctor of search engine optimization, but I will say that I used WordPress for years and fell in love with it to the extent that I became very close friends with Matt and then became an investor/advisor to Automattic, which runs wordpress.com. That is how much I believe in this and that's how a lot of my most successful products

• 1:00:06Tim Ferriss?

  and investments have come about, because I'm in love with X and then I seek out X. Nearly 30% of the internet is run on WordPress. And that includes everything from the huge sites that I mentioned to neighborhood sites. And it is super easy to get started. There's no need to worry about security or upgrades or hosting. They offer 24/7 support and handle all of that, which allows you to focus on creating the highest-quality content you can with the least amount of friction. I don't have to worry about downtime. I don't want to have to worry about getting emergency emails if I'm on vacation or something like that. And WordPress is my go-to solution for all of this.

• 1:00:46Tim Ferriss?

  I trust all of my most important text on the internet to WordPress. And they can't buy that with a sponsorship, they can't buy that with anything. I want uptime, uptime, uptime and quality. And that is what I have selected after everything that I've looked at. So check it out. Go to WordPress, that's W-O-R-D-P-R-E-S-S.com. WordPress.com/Tim to receive 15% off of your website today. That's WordPress.com/Tim.