#858: The Random Show, Couch Edition! — Supplements, Hummingbirds, Cock Rings, Optimizing Mitochondria, Breathing and Balance Training, Cool Grip Strength Tools, and More

Welcome to another wide-ranging "Random Show" episode that I recorded with my close friend Kevin Rose https://www.kevinrose.com/ (digg.com https://digg.com/)! This episode is brought to you by: Eight Sleep Pod Cover 5 https://www.eightsleep.com/tim/ sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating: EightSleep.com/Tim https://www.eightsleep.com/tim/AG1 https://drinkag1.com/tim all-in-one nutritional supplement: DrinkAG1.com/Tim https://drinkag1.com/timCresset https://cressetcapital.com/tim family office services for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs: CressetCapital.com/Tim https://cressetcapital.com/timTimestamps: [00:00:00] A meditative start.[00:02:19] Reflecting on our second Zen retreat in Santa Fe with Henry Shukman.[00:04:08] Ketone liver warnings and eggplant allergies: The perils of raiding Kevin’s fridge.[00:08:06] “Just be still” — three simple words that miraculously shut down my OCD.[00:13:54] Is meditation secretly vagus nerve stimulation?[00:20:17] DIY vagus nerve stim for $25 vs. Kevin’s $900 ear clip.[00:24:57] HeartMath and watching your HRV move in real time.[00:27:57] Marching toward 50: balance boards and the end of jiu-jitsu.[00:31:26] Tony Hawk snowboarding Hokkaido with screws in his hip.[00:33:01] Slacklining and why your nervous system needs sleep cycles.[00:35:19] Bertolotti’s Syndrome: My six-year back pain gets a name.[00:37:09] The nerve block test: everything wrong, zero pain.[00:44:10] Abrahangs tendon protocol: 10 seconds on, 50 off.[00:46:24] The NUG: a pocket hangboard for travelers.[00:48:31] Craig Mod’s Japanese toothbrush and Toaster’s cameo.[00:50:45] Kevin’s $92 vintage fire jacket: Blue Heritage Japan.[00:54:26] Podcast picks: The Power Broker and STEM Talk.[00:56:20] Alzheimer’s: A plaque or mitochondrial problem?[00:57:30] 10 grams of ketones turns one-word answers into sentences.[00:58:40] Methylene blue on Amazon: 120 years of research, zero guardrails.[01:02:36] Bredesen Protocol, APOE genotyping, and a cognitive comeback.[01:05:32] Photobiomodulation: $30k laser to the forehead.[01:07:55] Urolithin A and the high price of mitochondrial upkeep.[01:14:56] Recipe for disaster pants: espresso + creatine + MCT oil.[01:17:39] Norwegian 4×4 training and lactate as a brain lever.[01:23:15] Blood flow restriction bands and schwantz ring koans.[01:29:08] Hummingbirds named Sunset and squirrel obstacle courses.[01:32:06] Parting thoughts.* For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors https://tim.blog/podcast-sponsors Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts https://tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books https://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss http://linkedin.com/in/timferriss See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start to shake.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a personal question?

• 0:08Speaker 02

  Now would be an appropriate time.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 0:24Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, ready?

• 0:25Speaker 02

  Oh wait, wait. So we're rolling?

• 0:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, we're rolling. Okay. Three, two, one.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Feels actually really good.

• 0:36Tim Ferriss?

  I feel like my bowl is a little smaller than yours.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  That's always been the case.

• 0:43Tim Ferriss?

  You wanna kick it off?

• 0:44Speaker 02

  Hello, friends and family, colleagues. That was amazing.

• 0:48Tim Ferriss?

  Very prominent ejaculation.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  Welcome to The Random Show.

• 0:52Tim Ferriss?

  Welcome, folks, to another episode of The Random Show, Couch Audition Edition.

• 0:55Speaker 02

  That's right. EDU back of my place.

• 0:59Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  Edition.

• 1:00Tim Ferriss?

  Why do we have these fancy bowls?

• 1:02Speaker 02

  So, this is, for people not looking, these are meditation bowls.

• 1:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:07Speaker 02

  Got a bunch of script, presumably that's Tibetan or Sanskrit or something.

• 1:11Tim Ferriss?

  And you have a little corner, but that's not the bad corner, that's the zen corner.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is zen corner. Would you say bad corner?

• 1:18Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you don't have to put kids in the bad corner.

• 1:20Speaker 02

  Did you use that as a kid?

• 1:22Tim Ferriss?

  In school, I got sent to the bad table all the time.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Oh, there was a table?

• 1:25Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah. And then the teacher in kindergarten sent me to the bad table with a bunch of other kids who were really bad, and then forgot that she had decided it was the bad table and just left us at the bad table for the entire year.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  And so she's...

• 1:37Tim Ferriss?

  Might explain a lot of psychological issues that I've carried with me.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  This is not the bad table, this is the meditation area, and I have bowls over here that I just like the sound of a good... I mean, you heard that, hopefully it came through and didn't distort the mic, but a well-rung bowl, it sets the tone for the beginning of the meditation and also at the very end.

• 1:59Tim Ferriss?

  It's also just perfect for a podcast in Southern California.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:02Tim Ferriss?

  Nice to be in person.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  It's part of the whole SoCal environment. There's bowls per capita out here and crystal shops are very high.

• 2:11Tim Ferriss?

  High density, man.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14Tim Ferriss?

  Another beautiful day in SoCal.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Beautiful day.

• 2:16Tim Ferriss?

  Been doing a lot of walking. Where should we start off? We've got tons.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  We just came back from our retreat.

• 2:22Tim Ferriss?

  We did, we did. You want to describe the format?

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we've done a couple of these retreats. This is the second one where it's just a small group of people that are interested in meditation and that want to go a little bit deeper in the world of Zen. You know, you know, I both talked about the Way and Henry Schukman a ton, the Way being his app. And Henry's just a great leader, great Zen master, and was accompanied by Valerie, another Zen master.

• 2:48Tim Ferriss?

  This is at Mountain Cloud.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  At Mountain Cloud Zen Center.

• 2:50Tim Ferriss?

  San Jose, New Mexico.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we flew out there, small group, got together, and it's kind of like if a proper Zen retreat is like 5:30 cushion in the morning and then you're off at 7:00 PM. And it's hardcore, like no talking, shitty food. This was not bad. Like this was, we had a good chef that was there and we were allowed to ask questions in between sits. The sits were purposely kind of time-bound to call it maximum of 25 minutes and then a walking meditation, then another 25 minutes. That was like kind of the max.

• 3:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, let me interject just so we don't get into hyper bougie territory too fast. So the chef was not our chef. He's actually, as I remember, this is a former, I think, James Beard Award winner who decided to forego the accolades and the attention.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  How is that less bougie than what I was gonna say?

• 3:45Tim Ferriss?

  Well, you said we had a nice chef and people might assume that we're like bringing in a chef. This is a chef who actually

• 3:52Speaker 02

  He lives there locally.

• 3:53Tim Ferriss?

  I know, that's the point I'm making. He lives at the Zen Center and has chosen a life of simplicity, working with local ingredients and stuff. And he is also normally there. It's not like we had our own dedicated chef.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  That's right. That's right.

• 4:06Tim Ferriss?

  That's not in my house. I eat venison jerky sticks most of the time. Lentils out of a can still.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  And you chugged my freaking ketones about five minutes ago. Tim just goes in my fridge and he's like, okay, what are you up to?

• 4:19Tim Ferriss?

  I want to see what Kevin's up to. I want to see the evidence.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Okay, we got a little semi-glutide in here, we got some rapathah. He's like, oh, ketones. And he starts chugging my ketone esters.

• 4:28Tim Ferriss?

  unwrapped it and I was like, I probably should ask if I can drink this, but I'm guessing this has been in there for weeks.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Dude, I don't, that stuff that you drank is like, so they make several versions of that. That's like the full on F-16 is in the latest fighter jet, whatever the Gen 5 fighter jet is, F-22.

• 4:44Tim Ferriss?

  It's the most, it's the highest intensity. This is the Delta G brand ketone mono ester, which is BHB, which is kind of what you want. Bound with something called 1,3 butane dial, which I will say, if you see that on the ingredient list of your supplement for exogenous ketones, treat it like a shot of tequila. You really want to use it in moderation. There's mounting evidence that it's pretty unhealthy for your liver. So just use in moderation in terms of ketone supplementation. But hey, right before a podcast.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  By the way.

• 5:18Tim Ferriss?

  It's a great time for me to take like 15 grams. I will not do 30 because, and I talked to, she'll probably come up again, our mutual friend, Dr. Rhonda Patrick about this. I don't think I'm talking out of school here. But when you take, when I take, and this is true for her as well, and I suspect other people, the full 30, like the entire shot, rather than decreasing anxiety, it actually for me spikes it. And I think that could be related to a very rapid rise and then trough.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 5:47Tim Ferriss?

  Afterwards, but who knows? The point is, keep it moderate.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  You're the first person to tell me that it impacts liver function and I have more often than not had elevated liver enzymes. Surprise, surprise on the whole drinking front typically. But it's something I watch and when did you hear about that? Cause I'd never heard that to be the case.

• 6:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I fortunately, by virtue of doing the podcast and also being incredibly interested in science, interacting with a lot of researchers. So I get to have chats with them, once I get to know them better about pre-publication data, studies that are underway. And they never want to talk about them publicly because you have to check all the boxes and science is also very much about not fooling yourself when you make a certain hypothesis. But the first whispers of this were from, and still are from animal models where you can basically dose mice with 1,3 butane dial and give them the equivalent of fatty liver disease.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 6:52Tim Ferriss?

  It's not good. And I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 6:55Tim Ferriss?

  The point is, treat it like ethanol. Treat it like, not even tequila, moonshine. Like you're drinking moonshine. And you wouldn't want to do that every day.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  It tastes like moonshine.

• 7:03Tim Ferriss?

  Or cough syrup. Cough syrup, moonshine.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:06Tim Ferriss?

  So, that is just to say, still think there's a time and a place for it. I've been experimenting with other versions like ketone salts. Dominic D'Agostino, he's also the co-author in some of the papers

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:17Tim Ferriss?

  that are describing this.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  He tried bath salts for a while, too. That was a very odd version of Tim McGee.

• 7:23Tim Ferriss?

  You know, if it's good for McAfee.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Just eating the flesh off of us.

• 7:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Eating people.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Wasn't that a thing that happened?

• 7:30Tim Ferriss?

  In the median in Florida. It's always a Florida man.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:33Tim Ferriss?

  A Florida man, dot, dot, dot.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Eats another person.

• 7:35Tim Ferriss?

  Doing someone's face off after bath salts. Stay away from bath salts, kids.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I came in nice and fully loaded today.

• 7:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Awesome.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Well, I am glad that you're feeling better, because you also might not have made today, so.

• 7:49Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's a sidebar. I ended up, I may have had a glancing blow of eggplant to which I'm deathly allergic and woke up in the middle of the night incredibly sick last night. So, I'm glad I'm here.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:00Tim Ferriss?

  And I brought my ampu pen for dinner later.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 8:03Tim Ferriss?

  Learned my lesson. Bring your backup.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  So, the retreat, let's finish that off real quick.

• 8:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  So, we got together. What did you learn this time around? Because we've done this twice. You've dabbled in the world of Zen. You've always said, correct me if I'm wrong, but meditation's been a hard thing for you typically.

• 8:18Tim Ferriss?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Where are you now with your practice?

• 8:20Tim Ferriss?

  Well, what I would say is, you know, the first thing, speaking as a very much still a novice on any level, I would say that meditation is kind of like sports or exercise. Like, do you like exercise? Like, well, what kind of exercise? Right? Meditation, there's so many different ways to meditate or explore mindfulness. There's the Vipassana approach. There's transcendental meditation. There's Zen, which is very much its own thing, right? And you know more about that than I do. But what I do find helpful about the retreats is you can describe what is going on when you're sitting still with your eyes closed, trying to focus on something, in the case

• 9:04Tim Ferriss?

  of, say, the breath, or trying to just observe whatever comes up.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:08Tim Ferriss?

  And the feedback that you get from someone like Henry or Valerie, where you can do a 25-minute sit. And then take a short break, talk about it. And they can say, well, given that you experienced this, this, maybe you had restlessness. Maybe you had, in my case, this sort of planning compulsion. Right. So rather than memories or fantasies about who knows what, not necessarily. People can run wild with that. But I default to plans, like things I need to do. Right. And it's like, okay, well, if that's coming up, then Henry might say, why don't you try in the next sit, which we're going to do in 10 minutes or five minutes, A, B, or C. And then you do it and you provide feedback.

• 9:52Tim Ferriss?

  And so you're able to really polish the stone moving forward. And similar, I suppose, to a lot of what we might call transcendental experiences, which sounds fancy, but it's really just perhaps not fixating on the self or interrogating what this thing is that we call the self, which you can do through meditation. You can also do it with, or maybe you're forced to do it in some cases with psychedelic experiences or other things, breath work. When I was there at the retreat, you might remember this, I was getting very frustrated. And I was like, where's all this frustration coming from? Yeah. And while I was there, I was like, I don't know how much I'm getting out of this right now. But when I got back to quote unquote, real life in Austin,

• 10:35Tim Ferriss?

  I had like three to five days of this just kind of blissful, calm attention, where I was able to get everything done I needed to get done. There was no rushing. There was no looping and any kind of future tripping. And I was like, well, that's very interesting. And it also holds true for, say, breath work, psychedelics. There are many different things that you could look at. And interestingly, maybe this is one way to think of it. I mean, in a sense, there are a lot of parallels between different methods for entering what people might consider a trance state. And I don't think meditation is exempt from that, depending on what it is.

• 11:16Tim Ferriss?

  But if it's a concentration practice, it's like, for sure, you're using a mantra or you're using something you're repeating in the case of TM in the same way that you might use rhythmic drumming. Yeah. And you can go some pretty weird places. And then you come out of it, you're like, I don't know what to make of that. And sometimes the payoff is what you notice in the next. Unfolding week or two or three or whatever the duration might be. That's right. So that was very invigorating for me. And also, Henry, at one point, used a prompt in response to, I'll give a great, this is a real world example of something that happened to me, something I experienced in a sit, and then Henry's response, right? So I use the way all the time, full disclosure, we're both involved with it.

• 12:00Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, it's really because more than anything else, it's just, I think it's good for humanity and people to learn from somebody who is really deliberate about layering on progressive skills that you can take outside of meditation. But one of the practices is labeling. So if, and there are a million different ways to do this, but let's just say, talk comes up in the mind and you label it radio or talking. And then if some kind of video comes up in the mind, right, images, you're imagining something or planning something or remembering something, okay, that's video. Yeah. And so on and so forth. Yeah.

• 12:42Tim Ferriss?

  But for me, as someone with very well-established OCD, I can just end up being like, radio, radio, radio, radio, radio, and it turns into, instead of a helpful thing, a very interruptive, stressful thing. Right. And at that point in the retreat, and the retreat clearly was three to four days? Yeah. Like that, it was very short. Henry said, okay, well, let's, he moved into the next sit and he said, just be still. Right? Like, just be still. That's it. That is the focus, like, just sit still. And did that for two consecutive sits and just focused on that. And it was remarkable how much everything calmed down.

• 13:22Tim Ferriss?

  I was like, okay, well, just like exercise, like some people sure can go to the gym and do full sprinting workouts on an incline treadmill, not everybody can do that. Right. And other folks are well-suited to yoga, some people are well-suited to different types of lifting, et cetera. And everybody should probably spend a little bit of time in each of those compartments if they can, but it's not like everyone is equally suited, for instance, in my case, to like the open monitoring stuff, like, well, just sit there and notice all the things that come up. It's like, eh. So I came out of the retreat thinking, you know what? Something along the lines of transcendental meditation, not necessarily with that branding,

• 14:03Tim Ferriss?

  but using a koan, using "just be still" as a concentration practice that I repeat, really gives me a lot of payoff. If I just sit still for 10 to 20 minutes twice a day... Am I telling my theory on this? No. So, one of my theories, because I've been going super deep on bioelectric medicine in different ways of using electricity in place of pills, basically, and medications, which I think is really the next frontier in a million different ways. People should check out Michael Levin Tufts and some of the crazy stuff he's able to do. But, related to meditation, I did this deep dive with someone named Kevin Tracy, who's a very

• 14:47Tim Ferriss?

  credible scientist, very widely cited, helped discover and explore a lot related to TNF alpha and all sorts of things. And he is incredibly knowledgeable of vagus nerve stimulation. Not the bogus bullshit kind, which is 99.9% of what you see on the internet. Yeah. But using, say, implants the size of an omega-3 capsule in the neck, which is where the vagus nerves run. It's really like two transcontinental cables running down either side of the neck. Each one has about 100,000 fibers. And if you put an implant in that's giving continuous stimulation, on and off, on and off, it's not 24/7, it's

• 15:29Tim Ferriss?

  incredibly effective for things like rheumatoid arthritis. And actually, it was FDA-approved, it was on the cover of the New York Times- Holy shit. -the day that I interviewed him. And that raises the question, how? Why? What's going on? And it just so happens, when you stimulate the vagus nerve, you activate something called the inflammatory reflex, and you can, in effect, prevent damaging cytokine storms, decrease systemic inflammation of all different types. That word inflammation is kind of an umbrella term for a million different things. And I remember chatting with one of my friends, who's a professor. He was using the 10% Happier app by Dan Harris, and he was meditating twice a day. And then after like one or two weeks, he's like, all

• 16:13Tim Ferriss?

  of his aches, which are debilitating, like he had a lot of musculoskeletal issues, they just went away. And- One way people might try to explain that is like, "Well, you're becoming more present to your feelings," and maybe it was psychosomatic. Right. But I think it might actually be when you sit still and you inherently end up breathing rhythmically, because you can also stimulate your vagus nerve with, say, box breathing and other things. That you do that twice a day. If you were to use an implant, or let's just say either ear-based or neck-based stimulation of the vagus nerve, guess how long it lasts? Roughly 12 hours. So you do it twice a day, you're getting full coverage. Oh, interesting. And so if you're getting full coverage, and there's a lot more to it, I won't dig

• 16:58Tim Ferriss?

  too deep right now. If you're getting, twice a day, vagus nerve stimulation from sitting and focusing on breathing, even if you don't realize that you're entraining your breathing, I think that might have explanatory power for some of the benefits people see from meditation.

• 17:19Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to our sponsors, and we'll be right back to the show. Sleep is the key to it all. It is the foundation. Many of you heard me talk about how today's sponsor, Eight Sleep, has improved my sleep with its Pod cover. The Pod 5 introduces Eight Sleep's latest product, the Blanket, which uses the same technology as the Pod's cover, to extend temperature regulation across the entire body. On average, members report the Pod has helped them fall asleep 44% faster, 34% deeper sleep, and given them up to one added hour of sleep each night. Also, the Pod's snoring detection and automatic elevating platform have reduced user snoring by 45%. You'll also get a personalized report each morning, allowing you to track your sleep

• 18:00Tim Ferriss?

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• 18:29Tim Ferriss?

  Listeners have heard me talk about making before you manage for years. All that means to me is that when I wake up, I block out three to four hours to do the most important things that are generative, creative, podcasting, writing, et cetera, before I get to the email and the admin stuff and the reactive stuff and everyone else's agenda for my time. For me, I need to find people who are great at managing, and that is where Cresset Family Office comes in. You spell it C-R-E-S-S-E-T. Cresset Family Office. I was introduced to them by one of the top CPG investors in the world. Cresset is a prestigious family office for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs. They handle the complex financial planning, uncertain tax strategies, timely exit planning,

• 19:11Tim Ferriss?

  bill pay, wires, all the dozens of other parts of wealth management, just financial management, that would otherwise pull me away from doing what I love most: making things, mastering skills, spending time with the people I care about. And over many years, I was getting pulled away from that stuff, at least a few days a week, and have completely eliminated that. So, experience the freedom of focusing on what matters to you with the support of a top wealth management team. You can schedule a call today at cressetcapital.com/tim. That's spelled C-R-E-S-S-E-T. Cressetcapital.com/tim to see how Cresset can help streamline your financial plans and grow your wealth. That's cressetcapital.com/tim.

• 19:54Tim Ferriss?

  And disclosure, I am a client of Cresset and receive cash compensation per episode for this testimonial. I am also a shareholder of Cresset's parent company, creating a financial conflict of interest. My experience may not be representative of other clients, and all investing involves risk, including loss of principal. So, do your due diligence.

• 20:17Tim Ferriss?

  That's fascinating. So, I bought one of the vagus nerve stimulators that hooks onto my ear. Have you seen that one? And you feel that this little tiny pulse of current that's happening. So, people who are not watching this may have trouble envisioning this, but... I'm actually in communication with a couple of scientists in Scandinavia. I don't want to dox this guy because I don't think he's public with it yet. But there are two ways currently, non-invasively, to stimulate the vagus nerve that are commonly known. One is the neck, where you really like press some type of device. There are a number of them out there, mostly used for migraines or cluster headaches. And it's pretty unpleasant. Like you stimulate the neck and it activates a superficial muscles in your face and it pulls your face down.

• 21:01Tim Ferriss?

  And I used one of those for probably four to six weeks. Didn't see any systemic benefits. A friend of mine doubled his HRV using one of those devices. Like he had some, I'm not going to call it PTSD, but he had some overactive sympathetic drive. And the vagus nerve stimulation is associated with the rest and digest parasympathetic. Okay. Which is also why, right now, I stimulate before bed. Five minutes twice a day. I have no idea. For the ear, Jesus Christ.

• 21:37Tim Ferriss?

  For the ear, there's something called the simba concha. I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. Yeah. People can see, most of the research- This little bit right here? Right here. Okay. And you can look this up online. You kind of want the portion of the simba concha that is closer to your sideburns, let's say. Okay. And then you need another piece that is grounding or completing the circuit. And that's got to be touching your skin. The contact point is incredibly important. Are there any of these that you like that are consumer available? Because a lot of this stuff you mentioned- You can DIY it with components off of Amazon and maybe I'll make that available to folks. The reason I hesitate to do that is that it's easy to get wrong. And you can, I just don't want to be responsible for people trying to put current through their heads. Right.

• 22:21Tim Ferriss?

  There are a lot of people who DIY, trying to do TMS and stuff. Yeah, this is the one I heard. Or TDCS and they reverse polarity and they, like you can fry your brain, not with the vagus nerve stuff necessarily, but you got to be really careful with stimulation. Have you ever heard of this one, NeuroPod? Uh-uh. It's basically, if you look at who's involved on the scientist level, like it's crazy the number of, you know- U R O P O D. Let me see. The world's most study wearable biggest nerve stimulation.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  A hundred plus international, UCLA did a study there, Penn.

• 22:50Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, that's interesting. I'll have to check it out.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  It's interesting, but I will say, like, just be honest with people. I've owned this thing for about a year and a half. I did it for about two weeks for thirty minutes a day. I didn't notice anything.

• 23:03Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. It's hard for me to see the placement on the earpiece. The placement is very, very, very specific.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  It's clipped right here to this, this lobe right here.

• 23:11Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah. I don't think that's in the right place.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  You feel a little ticky, ticky, tick, like, like shock almost.

• 23:15Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I don't think you're, look, this is my first time seeing it, but I don't think you're going to be necessarily hitting as many fibers as you would want if that's the placement.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:26Tim Ferriss?

  But who knows? A lot of fancy names on the website. Maybe. I'll take a look at it.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's worth, you can borrow mine, dude.

• 23:32Tim Ferriss?

  I want something I can recommend to people.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. I can't recommend this because it's not done anything for me, but when I was doing the research for the most, like this one, they've clearly paid for studies to be done. Obviously, that's a huge grain of salt because who's doing the studies? And what are their biases and whatnot? But I'll let you, I'll let you borrow mine and see if it does, does, does anything for you. Because it is a nine hundred dollar device, which is like, shit, that's a lot of money to spend.

• 23:54Tim Ferriss?

  I'm, yeah, I'm using a prototype of one from Scandinavia right now on Amazon. I look, I'm sure people can find some instructions for this. You can DIY something for like twenty to twenty-five dollars worth of components on Amazon. It is not hard. It's just a small tens unit, cables. The placement is very challenging to get right.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:15Tim Ferriss?

  And I did not see much in terms of results from me, even with a lot of professional guidance using that. So I want to tell you about something related.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  But, but can I stop for a second?

• 24:25Tim Ferriss?

  Try breathing. Do box breathing.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  So that's what they say.

• 24:28Tim Ferriss?

  Or something like that. Do that twice a day.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 24:30Tim Ferriss?

  This is why also in The Great Nerve, which is a book written by Kevin Tracy, it's a great book. There's an extended chapter about Wim Hof, and Wim Hof is a very controversial figure, but well known for breath work. And you see some of the same effects in terms of controlling immune response so that it is not excessive.

• 24:50Tim Ferriss?

  With respect to various types of cytokines and so on. You can do it, breath work.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  So, yeah.

• 24:56Tim Ferriss?

  So, this, have you ever heard of HeartMath?

• 24:58Speaker 02

  I have heard of HeartMath.

• 24:59Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  I went to a little mini retreat where they were doing like a bunch of different modalities in terms of different therapies and things to like, just really let you be the best version of yourself. And one of the things that they did was they gave you a HeartMath device and they had a whole class on it. And I was like, yeah, I heard that thing before, I never tried it. And so, I hooked it up to my ear and it measures your HRV. But what blew my mind was that the app, once you launch it, it's like, follow this box breathing and we're gonna watch, you get to watch your HRV in real time.

• 25:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  And dude, when I followed it, just as it was telling me what to do, the HRV just like, shot up. And then, I would try and trick it and I'd be like, I'd follow it but I'd think of something really stressful and my HRV would go down. So, I'm telling you, this is the coolest device I have owned in a while. And you lock into this coherence mode as you do this breathing and it's, it's pretty awesome. It's 250 bucks, I'm not an investor or anything, but.

• 25:57Tim Ferriss?

  HeartMath.com.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  HeartMath.com. And it's 60 day money back guarantee and.

• 26:01Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I want to say that because I hate recommending stuff.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  Affiliate code, Kevin40%.

• 26:07Tim Ferriss?

  Exactly, Tim Tim, 20% off.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  I hate recommending stuff once people spend their money and, but I will say this was the one, one thing that I was.

• 26:14Tim Ferriss?

  I've heard good things about HeartMath. I don't know who's involved. I did, maybe you didn't know this, for a period of time, maybe it was about three months, I did training for this specifically. I think it was before any retail options were available, with a doctor named Lea Lagos, who has a book about this. And we actually, in real time, would do a video call and identify what type of breathing specifically would have, in real time, the biggest impact on HRV. And there is something to this. There's definitely something to this. I can't speak to HeartMath, but I've heard of it before. So, don't worry about the device for stimulation. The point being. Try meditating twice a day for 10 to 20 minutes.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:59Tim Ferriss?

  And if you're like, ugh, meditating, God, I'm allergic to that word because it gets used so much. Try breathing. Use HeartMath or something else. There's not a whole lot you need to worry about. Andy Weil has some very good breathing exercises.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, 478. Yeah, so I have box breathing and 478 on my app, Oak. It's still in the App Store and it's 100% free.

• 27:19Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  There's no way you have to pay for anything on the app. So if you just Google Oak, you can find it. And it has like six different breathing techniques on there.

• 27:27Tim Ferriss?

  I think, I think, here's, here's a hypothesis slash bet. I think that if it hasn't been demonstrated already, I haven't done a full lit search for this. I think there are breathing patterns. If you repeat them in the morning and at night, twice a day, roughly 12 hours apart, like 10 to 20 minutes, that you will see a lot of benefits for things like chronic pain.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:51Tim Ferriss?

  I really feel very confidently. So.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  That's exciting.

• 27:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Sweet.

• 27:56Tim Ferriss?

  Um, what else you got?

• 27:58Speaker 02

  I've got crazy things. I mean, I just had my birthday a few weeks ago, which is crazy because I'm marching towards 50 really quick.

• 28:04Tim Ferriss?

  I know.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  And so are you.

• 28:06Tim Ferriss?

  Getting dragged through the doorway with your fingernails leaving.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  It's really scary.

• 28:10Tim Ferriss?

  Linoleum.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Well, what's crazy is dude, okay, so when I first, Tim and I first started hanging out, like whatever, 15 years ago, 17 years ago. Yeah, 20, I don't even know.

• 28:19Tim Ferriss?

  Close to, close to 20 years ago.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  Close to 20 years ago. He's like, let me like, every time you walk into Tim's house, he like tackles you with some kind of new jujitsu move to take you down. In like the last three years, he's been carrying a ball for his lower back where he's like, I can't move. And it's like old man Tim has appeared and like that old Tim that would tackle you with a jujitsu move is gone.

• 28:40Tim Ferriss?

  And the gentler, not so gentle, turns out.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I know one of the things that I want to really focus on for this next decade is balance. I balance obviously is, is such a key thing. And it's the number one way that people in their, as they get older in their 60s, 70s and beyond, are actually permanently injured is by falling and breaking a hip and things like that. So two things to show off.

• 29:01Tim Ferriss?

  Like incredible increase in risk, all cause mortality, if you're older and you break a hip.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Yes, turns out breaking hips are not good. So check this out. This one right here I've had for a while.

• 29:11Tim Ferriss?

  Don't fall on your ringing ball.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  So can you imagine? Smash my face in the ringing ball. So I'm going to show you how this works. Have you used this before?

• 29:20Tim Ferriss?

  I have.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so are you good at these or no?

• 29:22Tim Ferriss?

  Oh God, you're like. Feel like a parent watching after you.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  How well can you do the balance boards?

• 29:28Tim Ferriss?

  I haven't done it in a long time. There's one called the IndoBoard, which I have. I've fucked around with it. I don't think today is the day.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  Well, so check this out. So five minutes a day, there was some research that was done around people with ADHD. And it dramatically improved their symptoms, which I have a ton of.

• 29:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you can't really.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  But what, but I want to know if you can do this. I want to see if you can do these.

• 29:48Tim Ferriss?

  You have to pay attention if you're on this thing.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  Could you do these?

• 29:51Tim Ferriss?

  I don't know. Never tried it.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  And then the tippy toes. So I do 50 squats like this.

• 30:01Tim Ferriss?

  I should also point out, you have a history as a skateboarder.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  I do.

• 30:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, which helps.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Let's see, let's see, Tim.

• 30:06Tim Ferriss?

  Ah, I don't know if I'm gonna.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  You'll be okay. You'll be okay. I'll hold your hand when you go up. Come on, just give it a shot for a second. I want to see.

• 30:14Tim Ferriss?

  I'll give you some, I'll give you some depends and you give you a walker so you can get up there.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  Okay, so one foot there.

• 30:21Tim Ferriss?

  Yep, I got it.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 30:24Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, fuck.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  There you, there, oh. It's got blockers, so you won't slide off the end.

• 30:34Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Lean hard right, hard right, harder on the right foot.

• 30:38Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's like.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  It's hard, isn't it?

• 30:39Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I'm like nervous about falling over.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 30:42Tim Ferriss?

  There we go.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  Now the squat.

• 30:44Tim Ferriss?

  This is kind of like slack boarding where you're like, you need a couple of days to get your nervous system.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Isn't it amazing how your nervous system adapts to it?

• 30:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So there's, there's a crazy video people should check out. I think maybe it's not online. There's a guy named Jersey Gregorick had on the podcast. He's got to be 70 something right now, but he was 67. He could stand on one of these at 67 with a fully loaded barbell with like 150, 200 pounds. He weighs probably 130 and he could do a perfect form Olympic snatch. Landing with ass to heels and then stand back up and do repetitions.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  So dude, when I was just in Japan last week.

• 31:28Tim Ferriss?

  Oof, alright, there we go. That's enough.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  When I was just in Japan last week, I was out there and I was, I was at this event. Whoops. I was at this friend's birthday party that Tony Hawks also friends with, so I was hanging with Tony. And he's like, I, last time I saw Tony, I was like. Dude, how you doing? Because I-

• 31:46Tim Ferriss?

  Tony Hawk, one of the most legendary skateboards of all time. For people that don't know.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  People definitely know who Tony Hawk is, but yeah. You might-

• 31:52Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, a lot of people-

• 31:54Speaker 02

  A lot of people know who Tony Hawk is. So Tony-

• 31:56Tim Ferriss?

  For the youngsters.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Last time I saw him, he had a cane. And I was like, this was probably like eight months ago or whatever. And I was like, dude, how you doing? And he's like, I just got a couple screws put into my hip. And, you know, he had this injury. And I was like, holy shit, man. I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh, the fucking legend, you know? Pushing himself in his 50s to do- He's still doing like, you know, whatever, 720s on the half-pipe. And in his mid-50s, like, fucking crazy. And I saw him up in Hokkaido and we're going snowboarding. He's like, yeah, I'm going board today. He has no cane, no nothing. And I'm like, do you have pain? Like, do you have pain? Like, do you feel pain? Like, what are you doing in your mid-50s, like, doing vert snowboarding? Like, you know what I mean?

• 32:41Speaker 02

  And he's just like, yeah, he's like, my wife jokes that I should have a shirt that says like, "Always in pain" or something like that. And I was just like, that is a- Some people are built like that, though.

• 32:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Have you ever seen his shins?

• 32:53Tim Ferriss?

  I'm sure they're just like, he looks like a Thai kickboxer.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly, dude. He has been hit so many times by the board, it's insane. You and your birthday, when I was at your birthday in New York, probably about, I don't know, maybe seven, 10 years ago. You had a slack line in your backyard.

• 33:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  And I couldn't do it at all. At not even one step.

• 33:15Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  Because it is a very much a nervous system practice.

• 33:18Tim Ferriss?

  It's a nervous system practice.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  So I found this online, it's like a little home one. Do you have one like this?

• 33:23Tim Ferriss?

  That's cool. I have played around with these. These are pretty sweet. So I have not used the smaller ones. I had one between trees, same company, Given. And just for people who've never played with this- If you're gonna try it, don't do like an hour thinking that you're gonna figure it out in one day. You actually, my belief is you need sleep cycles for your nervous system to try to integrate it. So you're better off doing a few minutes every day and gradually you'll figure it out. But that's cool, very portable.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:53Tim Ferriss?

  Obviously a lot easier to set up and take down than a gigantic thing between two trees with ratchets and everything.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. I just wanted to get one because again, on the balance front, they'll have a little QR code there at the end that you scan and they give you about 20 or 30 different exercises that you can do with it. Like the toe taps where one foot is on and you tap a toe on each side of the bar. And like, you're right, and there's this weird thing, and I noticed this with my kids, where they got those little hoverboards for Christmas so they can just kind of zoom around, and they're seven and eight. And day one, like eating shit, you know, helmets, full gear. And day two, my youngest is just like, woo, like just flying over the place.

• 34:28Tim Ferriss?

  Totally figured it out.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  It took a couple of days of that kind of adaption.

• 34:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  And that muscle memory to kind of kick in, which I think all these things do. But yeah, this has been awesome.

• 34:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, and for people who might want to try slacklining, don't get on a slackline really far off the ground, number one. But a lot of rock climbing gyms have slacklines set up. So you can potentially get someone to show you the basic ropes, pun intended, of walking on a slackline over there. And it's called gibbon, pretty sure this is why it's called gibbon. Because if you see really good slackliners, they do this with their arms as they're walking across. And what does that look like? It looks like a gibbon, this monkey.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:09Tim Ferriss?

  And you can see footage of gibbons walking across like rope on small suspension bridges. Pretty fascinating stuff.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 35:16Tim Ferriss?

  So, try it out.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 35:18Tim Ferriss?

  And, you know, I'll throw something out there.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 35:20Tim Ferriss?

  Because it's related to rock climbing. Well, a couple of things. Since you brought it up, so for the last two days, you know, we've been hanging out a little bit and you have not seen my little blow up Pilates ball that I usually put behind my little back.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Well, I just mentioned it a few minutes ago. I know, I do see it, yeah.

• 35:35Tim Ferriss?

  But you haven't seen it.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  I know.

• 35:36Tim Ferriss?

  So what's going on? Well, it seems like, and this is not going to apply to most people, and this is a work in progress, so it's not definitive. But I ended up meeting with a neurologist and surgeon in Austin.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  And you've injected baby seals' stem cells.

• 35:54Tim Ferriss?

  Just fine.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 35:55Tim Ferriss?

  It's gonna be some shit like that. No, it's, it's, it might apply to a very, very small fraction of the people who are actually listening to this. He did imaging. He used to be in a clinic where they ran trials and studies related to something called Bertolotti's syndrome. And Bertolotti's syndrome is incredibly uncommon. Most specialists in his profession might see one or two cases in their entire careers, but he's seen hundreds. And he looked at my imaging and he said, "You may actually have Bertolotti's syndrome." And he pointed out, they had very advanced imaging. It's the first time it came up. It corresponds perfectly to where I point to when people ask me when I have pain, or where I have pain, excuse me. And it's in effect where

• 36:40Tim Ferriss?

  you have a transitional segment. So it's like a lumbar vertebra that's behaving like a sacral vertebra or vice versa. And let's just say it's like L5 and the transverse processes, I think it's transverse processes on both, try to form a pseudo-joint. So they basically lay on bone and other material to try to create what is then called a pseudo-joint. And if you look at textbook cases of Bertolotti's, you're like, "Yeah, of course that's gonna hurt your little back." And as a way of testing the hypothesis, he said, "Well, let's, before we even consider any interventions, let's try to hone in on whether that is accurate

• 37:21Tim Ferriss?

  or not as a diagnosis. The way we'll do that is there are some nerves that affect that area specifically. There's no like radiating effect or anything down the leg. Let's put in effectively a nerve block and then see what happens." Like, we'll put in a nerve block.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  What is a nerve block?

• 37:39Tim Ferriss?

  Basically stops the area from transmitting pain signals.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  But like, what does it mean though, when you put in a nerve block?

• 37:46Tim Ferriss?

  You lay down, in my case, on your face. I hate when anyone is messing with my spine, man. It's like very, I've had so many things done to me and I'm usually cool as a cucumber, but when needles are like in or around my spine.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:00Tim Ferriss?

  I really get the fierest sweats. I don't like it at all. But in this case, that was... Required, so you get a, in this case, it was, I think it was lidocaine, small amount of lidocaine to numb the surface. Yeah, no shit. Then they're going through quite a bit of deep musculature. So they go in and then they're putting in, in this case, and obviously you need specialists for this. Who's the baby seal? Um, prolocan, they have baby seal semen. No, it was prolocan and something called Kenalog. But none of those specifics are the punchline. The punchline is, after he did the injection, he said, okay, this particular portion of the cocktail is going to last 18 hours. And then you're going to get probably two weeks of effect from the Kenalog, something like that, which is a cortisone shot, basically.

• 38:45Tim Ferriss?

  He said, I want you to do all of the things that you think will most piss off your back. Like all the things you've been avoiding, which for me are sitting on hard surfaces, sitting with a slightly flexed back, like if you're sitting on a bar stool and you're kind of like this. Any of those, stretching in that position, sitting on the floor with the dogs, certainly things like heavy deadlifts, squats. So I did all of that stuff for three days straight, zero pain. Hmm. And I'm like, holy shit. After having so many specialists from different disciplines say like, yeah, I know you point to that, but that's not the spot. It's actually because there's referral pain from this, this, or this.

• 39:27Tim Ferriss?

  And just having so many people dismiss how precisely I could point to where I felt the most pain, which was consistent over years. And for the first time, he's like, if we look at the imaging, right here, it is exactly where you were playing with your finger. So I'm cautiously optimistic. Dude, that's amazing. This is the first time in six years, also just like, there are different tools that work for different people. Sometimes it requires multiple tools. A lot of people have benefited from the work of John Sarno. But that school, for instance, in effect, says,

• 40:06Tim Ferriss?

  None of the imaging really maps to symptoms. Well, it's all in your head. So do cognitive training and reconditioning to solve it because...

• 40:15Speaker 02

  That's the guy that Howard Stern got his back problems fixed through, right?

• 40:19Tim Ferriss?

  It might be. A lot of people benefit from that stuff.

• 40:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:21Tim Ferriss?

  But it's also infuriating to be told like every type of back pain is in your head. I'm like, really? If I took a ball peen hammer and smashed one of your vertebrae, that would be in your head? Like, I guess technically, since the brain is governing pain, like, fine. But this is the first time with a relatively simple but precise intervention. I guess it's been about five days. It's like, I can do everything with no pain. So...

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Dude, that's amazing.

• 40:50Tim Ferriss?

  So what does that mean? Well...

• 40:51Speaker 02

  Could be the cortisol shot.

• 40:52Tim Ferriss?

  Well...

• 40:53Speaker 02

  That's the one thing that's like, mm...

• 40:54Tim Ferriss?

  Well, that is...

• 40:55Speaker 02

  You've probably had that before, right? Or no?

• 40:57Tim Ferriss?

  No, I haven't. But here's the thing. So that's going to have...

• 41:00Speaker 02

  Anti-inflammatory.

• 41:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, anti-inflammatory. It's also gonna basically kind of, for lack of a better term, like, puff up the pseudo joint in a way that sort of reverses the chronological age or development of that in some ways from a symptom perspective. But this is where I'll offer people something they can potentially look into, obviously with the help of really, really, really good doctors. If that shot continues to deliver benefits, and I can do all these things pain-free, which is the case right now, then there's something called radiofrequency ablation, RFA, which is used to, in this case, temporarily completely incapacitate those nerves. So they go in, they apply radiofrequency ablation, and that should last for like a year to a year and a half, hopefully.

• 41:47Tim Ferriss?

  And the hope in that case is, okay, with a year, year and a half, and I already spoke, you know, I've spoken to multiple people and they're like, even if you resume a lot of your activities and stair-step into it that previously caused pain, you shouldn't structurally make that worse. Right? Because that was a concern. And I think that's enough of a period of time where you could effectively reprogram your pain patterning. Because for years now, it's like, if I sit on a hard surface, my brain is like, code red, DEFCON 5. Like, you are about to not be able to sleep for six to seven days.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:22Tim Ferriss?

  And you're gonna have trouble walking and sitting and standing. So, super exciting.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 42:30Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. Back in the day, this was 2004, maybe, I had someone approach me in a coffee shop and said, "G'day, mate," and introduce himself. Who was that? It turned out to be the founder of AG1, believe it or not, way back in the day. And people often ask me, "What has survived after 20-plus years of testing every supplement under the sun just about? What actually has stayed in the rotation, in the toolbox?" This episode's sponsor, AG1, is at the top of that very, very short list. I started using it close to 15 years ago, when it was still called Athletic Greens. I put it in the 4-Hour Body, didn't get paid to put it in there, and it's outlasted almost everything else that I've tried. One scoop covers your

• 43:13Tim Ferriss?

  nutritional bases, right? Fills the gaps. You want to eat good food, of course, but 75-plus ingredients, including probiotics, B vitamins, and whole food nutrients, act as, in my opinion, pretty cheap nutritional insurance. I take it first thing every morning with cold water, and at this point, it's automatic, like brushing my teeth. If you're looking for one simple daily habit that supports gut health and fills common nutrient gaps, this is where I'd start. Right now, new subscribers to AG1 get a free welcome kit worth $87, including AG1 and AGZ travel packs, that's for sleep, it's actually great, and vitamin D3 plus K2. So, there's a whole bunch of free stuff worth 87 bucks. So, check

• 43:52Tim Ferriss?

  it out. Take a look. Visit drinkag1.com/tim, and that's the number one. So, drinkagnumberone.com/tim to check it out. One more time, that's drinkag1.com/tim.

• 44:10Tim Ferriss?

  All right, so you mind if I continue my TED Talk for a second? Do it. All right, so also had long overdue surgery, I think I might have talked about this last time, but on my extensors, right? So, forearm extensors. So, this would be considered like tennis elbow, like 20-plus years overdue from a sports injury. And I'm back to rock climbing. I'm not great at rock climbing, but I love it. I just love rock climbing, feeling really good. And if people have never seen something called Abrahangs, so like Abraham, but Abrahangs...

• 44:45Tim Ferriss?

  Go on YouTube, find this Swedish rock climber named Emil Abrahamsen. So Abraham Son, S-S-O-N. He's a monster, very competent rock climber, does like V13 problems and probably much more. Incredible explainer of things and dives into a lot of training. And he, along with the help of this scientist named Keith Barr, B-A-A-R, who I've actually had on the podcast, developed or tested this protocol for improving tendon strength. And it is the simplest, lowest impact thing you can imagine. It's basically 10 minutes twice a day. And he does a bunch on a hangboard, but let's keep it simple.

• 45:28Tim Ferriss?

  Let's say you're hanging on, could be a pull-up bar, could be a door jamb, could be the underside of some stairs, whatever. And he's hanging with like 30 to 85% of his weight, so his feet are still on the floor. Does that for 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off. 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off. And you do it 10 times, that's 10 minutes. And then you do it again later in the day. And his before and after strength and endurance tests are mind-blowing. This is already a guy who we could say is a high-level climber. And to see the before and after is crazy. So you don't always have to kill yourself to adapt in really, really interesting ways.

• 46:09Tim Ferriss?

  And that's something I've really, really benefited from. But the low back has been a limiter, right? For like the last few months. Because hanging from a bar, if I don't engage the abs, it could cause some issues with the low back and spasming. So I bought this thing, recommended by a friend of mine, Nick Norris, who's also been on the podcast, former Navy SEAL, called the Nug. And the Nug is about the size of like a gigantic bar of soap. It's a piece of wood. And it has different depths of grips on it. Like 25 millimeters, 20 millimeters, and you can move it around really easily. And basically, like, you could keep it in jacket pocket. And as long as you have a carabiner, like one of those things that kind of clicks on,

• 46:54Tim Ferriss?

  you can do all sorts of exercises while you're traveling. And at home, I have basically a plate-loading pin that you can load plates on. Yeah, exactly. So that you can basically do like a single-handed deadlift.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  And so this is essentially doing the hanging board?

• 47:12Tim Ferriss?

  It's similar. I'm looking for the same kind of loading. But what you can also do is take this thing that you can fit in your pocket and attach it to like a low cable machine. That's what I was doing in Santa Fe, actually.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Oh, that's cool.

• 47:23Tim Ferriss?

  And just like get the weight off the ground, you know, the stack off of the resting position. And then I was doing 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off, 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  And you only have one of these?

• 47:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, because I'll do one hand and then I'll do the other. So I'll be like 10 seconds, 10 seconds, 40 second rest. 10 seconds, 10 seconds, 40 second rest. The website is Frictious Climbing. It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but like friction, frictious climbing. They have the nug, they have a bunch of other items that you can use while traveling for this, which are really, really interesting. So that's another one that I've been traveling with. I'll let you go.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is awesome.

• 48:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's just a fun little tool to play with. Do not overdo finger training. You do not want to tear a pulley or something in your fingers. So less is more, less is more, less is more. This is, I guess, something like 30 to 85% of body weight. Obviously, or maybe it's not obvious, that's with two hands. So if you're doing it with one hand, it's gonna be, you know, 15 to 40%.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  That's amazing. This is cool. Thanks. I already just ordered it by the time we done talking about it.

• 48:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's fun to play with.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 48:31Tim Ferriss?

  What you got?

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I've got a couple of things. One, I was hanging with Craig Ma in Japan, and you've had Craig on the show before.

• 48:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, Craig is...

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Amazing, amazing guy. I don't think there's anybody that understands Japan the way that Craig does, like in terms of the backcountry and just like the little artisans and all the stuff that he's into.

• 48:49Tim Ferriss?

  Craig has walked, I'd be fair to say like thousands of miles of different trails and pilgrimage paths in Japan. He's, it's very likely he has walked more of Japan on foot than any other person.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he was out here visiting, he actually stayed in this house for a week when he was out here in LA. And I walked in and he's got all those little toiletries like sitting out, you know?

• 49:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  It's like sitting out, he puts it all in Japanese order where it's like on a little nice little cloth and it's got like all this shit.

• 49:16Tim Ferriss?

  He even dresses like a Japanese person.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, I know, I know.

• 49:19Tim Ferriss?

  So, I mean, he's lived there for 25 years, so that kind of makes sense.

• 49:22Speaker 02

  But I saw his toothbrush and I was like, that is a dope looking toothbrush. And I got you one.

• 49:27Tim Ferriss?

  Oh wow, look at this.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  So you can get these on Amazon. It's got a really wide head. He said it's his favorite Japanese toothbrush.

• 49:36Tim Ferriss?

  So for people who can't see it, it's like the toothbrush bristles are almost in a, in a square, right? I mean, it's very square like as opposed to being more elongated.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  And so you get three of these for $11.50 on Amazon. And what does it say in Japanese?

• 49:52Tim Ferriss?

  Premium care.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Premium care. Old Toaster's here.

• 49:57Tim Ferriss?

  Premium care.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  Hey buddy.

• 50:00Tim Ferriss?

  Look at old man Toaster.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  I was just, I was just saying hi to him earlier. This is, Toaster is now 15. You know, I was just saying to Daria that the last time we did a podcast, sitting on a couch, was at your place in San Francisco, back when Toaster was a puppy and he chewed through the cable, the XLR cable.

• 50:16Tim Ferriss?

  That's right.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Buddy.

• 50:18Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, he can't hear anything anymore sadly and his back legs are falling off. We're looking now, but, look at that, he's still a good dude.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  I feel like, I feel like you recognize me because I've seen him so many times.

• 50:27Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, for sure.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:29Tim Ferriss?

  What a sweetheart.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  He's such a good boy.

• 50:31Tim Ferriss?

  So yes, premium care.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I got you one of those in like, there's a three pack for $11.50. I think it's great. It's fantastic toothbrush.

• 50:38Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  Yep, okay.

• 50:44Tim Ferriss?

  Cool, I dig it, thank you.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Um, speaking of all things Japanese, so I am hesitant to give this up. So if you want to get, if you want to get a.

• 50:54Tim Ferriss?

  Low on stock, only one left.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Well, hold on, let me tell you why. So first of all, check this out. Check out this jacket.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Cool. Alright, oh, nice. You feel how heavy that is? It feels like a, almost like, I know what this is. I know what this is. So this is, this is a fireman's jacket in Japan. And this is a heavy, like dope, fireman's jacket. It's vintage. This would be hard, hard to rip. Like the 1970s. Oh, wow. And so, I found a store on Etsy. How did you even think to look for this? Because I love this style of jacket. You're a fireman, vintage Japanese fireman jacket? I just typed in like Japanese jacket on Etsy. And so this importer, they import like the coolest vintage Japanese,

• 51:45Speaker 02

  everything from jackets to, you know how they used to do that patch mill kind of work where they take stuff, they would like patch quilts out of, out of old material? Yeah. Yeah, so like everything from like little tiny shrines to wicker baskets, like, dude, check out the store. Let me just show you the store real quick. Um, and the only reason I'm plugging it is- Vintage Japanese indigo dyed kendo jacket. So they got all the little dolls, they've got these different types of uh, indigo dyed kind of blankets. So what's, what's the seller? The seller is just an importer from Japan. You don't want to give the name? No, I will. So, well, here's the deal. It's so inexpensive, like, in the States, if you were to buy this jacket from a designer called Visvim,

• 52:28Speaker 02

  which is like a well-known Japanese designer. Yeah. This style of jacket- Yeah. Would be, oh gosh, I mean, it'd probably be $2,500. Wow. For that jacket. More expensive than my car. They, it's not. They sell these jackets on there for, here's one for $92. Look, look at this, vintage 1960s jacket, $92. That's cool. Oh, watch out buddy. Okay bud? He's kind of needs a little help.

• 52:51Tim Ferriss?

  I don't think you're ready for this slackboard, my friend.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:54Tim Ferriss?

  There you go.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  Okay, I know, I know. I mean, that jacket's dope, but I just wanted to give this out there because I think if you're looking to buy vintage fun things in, you can't scroll.

• 53:05Tim Ferriss?

  I know, I know. I know, I'm being an idiot.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  If you, if you're looking for just various objects around your house that are vintage from Japan, this place is insanely inexpensive.

• 53:18Tim Ferriss?

  For all different types of things.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Blue Heritage Japan? Yeah, so the Etsy name is Blue Heritage Japan.

• 53:25Tim Ferriss?

  4.9 stars, thousands of reviews.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  But look at some of the stuff.

• 53:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's cool. These, these kind of hanging tapestries for stores and stuff.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:34Tim Ferriss?

  Those are fun.

• 53:35Speaker 02

  So, anyway, I just thought it was kind of a fun shop that, and you know it's legit because when you get the package, it's actually like shipped directly from Japan.

• 53:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  Like oftentimes you'll find some of these places that make like a Japanese style jacket, and then you find a little tag says "Made in China" on the inside of it or something, you know? So, anyway, look at this farmer's washi paper basket. Like, wouldn't that be cool to have in your house, sitting around somewhere? I mean, like, that's just awesome.

• 54:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I guess these guys are based in Canada, it looks like.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Oh no, that's just because I'm logged into the Canadian store.

• 54:07Tim Ferriss?

  Why the hell are you logged into the Canadian store?

• 54:08Speaker 02

  I don't know. I was on VPN.

• 54:13Tim Ferriss?

  Better close those porn browsers.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  No, I was, I was in Japan and they were firewalling me off of some stuff, and so I had to use VPN.

• 54:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  A big desert, it was important.

• 54:26Tim Ferriss?

  No, doth protest too much.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  Should happen.

• 54:31Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, yeah, go ahead.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Alright, cool. So I want to recommend some podcasts for people, and these are two that I continue to revisit. One is this, is a mini-series by 99% Invisible, one of the OGs, Roman Mars, and he's got some co-hosts. It is a series on The Power Broker. So, The Power Broker by Robert Caro won the Pulitzer Prize in 1975. It's a biography of Robert Moses, who basically shaped modern New York. And this book is considered the quintessential book.

• 55:05Tim Ferriss?

  To read if you want to understand state and local politics, especially power wielding in New York. And it's a legendary book. It's 1,200 pages. I've never made it through. I've never even really put a dent in it. And then what 99% Invisible does, they walk you through the whole book and kind of give you their highlights. They interview Robert Caro himself, who got to meet Robert Moses multiple times. And they have guest appearances by people like Conan O'Brien, who's a huge Robert Caro and Power Broker fan. It's a wonderful series.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 55:40Tim Ferriss?

  And I think there are 12 parts. I had listened to it ages ago, but they only had three episodes out. And then I just petered out because I didn't want to wait months for the next one to come out. Now they have the full 12. That's one. And then the other one is a podcast called STEM Talk. And if I want to find interesting scientists doing things that I think I might be able to apply to my life or the lives of loved ones. And certainly there's a lot of stuff that's out on the edges that is not yet ready for any clinical applications. STEM Talk is just incredible. And my latest discovery there is a really fascinating scientist named Dr. Francisco Gonzalez Lima, who's at UT Austin. One of the many reasons I'm interested in his research is that he has a very different

• 56:25Tim Ferriss?

  view on neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. And thinks, as I do, that people underweight and researchers underweight, how you might think of Alzheimer's as a vascular disease and including mitochondrial dysfunction. And the more I dig into this, the less compelling I find kind of amyloid plaque, like amyloid beta plaque, amyloid beta plaque.

• 56:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:53Tim Ferriss?

  For a whole host of reasons.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  It's pretty widely accepted now that that is a byproduct of something gone wrong and not the cause of it, right?

• 56:59Tim Ferriss?

  But still, I do think a lot of doctors and scientists would view it as a byproduct. Nonetheless, a lot of the treatment options, like donatomab infusions or otherwise, are focused on removing plaque.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:10Tim Ferriss?

  But you can remove a lot of plaque.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  It doesn't do shit.

• 57:12Tim Ferriss?

  Assuming it doesn't kill people.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:14Tim Ferriss?

  Because there are risks with ARI and stuff. And you may not see any

• 57:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:18Tim Ferriss?

  Change in cognition whatsoever.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  What do you think of the Bresson Protocol?

• 57:22Tim Ferriss?

  I don't know, look Dale Bredson, I don't know much about Dale, so you can illuminate me. Let's get to that in a second.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, go ahead.

• 57:29Tim Ferriss?

  But what I have seen, let's just say in the case of some of my relatives, I've got three relatives with Alzheimer's right now. One is disintegrating very quickly, one is in hospice and another who's sort of in the early but rapidly advancing stages. And I gave one of them, actually the exact same ketone that I had before we sat down, only 10 grams, because I didn't want them, I didn't want to risk them getting dizzy, which can be a byproduct and falling, but I gave them 10 or 15 grams and within 20 minutes, longer sentences, faster speech. This is someone who is giving like one word, two word responses and that lasted for about an hour, hour and a half.

• 58:08Tim Ferriss?

  So if plaques, even if we're talking about tau and so on, if those were solely responsible, that shouldn't work. But I don't want to be dosing my family with ketones constantly for a lot of reasons. It's like, okay, what else can we do? And this Dr. Gonzalez Lima has looked at low dose methylene blue and also photobiomodulation using lasers or LEDs, like right on, in most cases, the right prefrontal cortex.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  By the way, do you know that they're selling methylene blue on freaking Amazon now?

• 58:44Tim Ferriss?

  That's scary.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  I know, they didn't used to because they were scared to do it. Now there are supplement companies that are selling straight up methylene blue.

• 58:51Tim Ferriss?

  That's scary.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Although the safety profile, like it's been used for a very long time.

• 58:56Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's got like 120 years of research, but if you overshoot the therapeutic window, like you can fuck yourself up.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:01Tim Ferriss?

  So in this case, it's low dose, ideally plus photobiomodulation and you're hitting two aspects of the electron transport chain that should be synergistic for mitochondrial function and also glucose metabolism. That's really got my attention right now.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  Dude, look at this on Amazon. Look at this guy drinking a big pitcher of it.

• 59:22Tim Ferriss?

  Guy's drinking a, like a shaker bottle full of methylene blue.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  With the goldfish. You know, methylene blue is what they use for fish tanks, right? To color the water blue.

• 59:32Tim Ferriss?

  Is it?

• 59:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were using it in fish tanks.

• 59:35Tim Ferriss?

  Well, it's good enough for the fish tanks, I guess. Be careful.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, look, here it is. General disease prevention for fish. If it works for fish.

• 59:42Tim Ferriss?

  This pet store has figured it out.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 59:45Tim Ferriss?

  Be very careful, folks. If you overdo, this is true for a lot of things. You basically have

• 59:52Tim Ferriss?

  A response curve where a hormetic dose, like a very small amount is good for you. Kind of like iocane powder in Princess Bride, or it helps with immune function and so on. If you take too much, it has the opposite effect. So you could, I believe, I don't think I'm getting this wrong, handicap your mitochondrial function by taking too much.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  Dude, look at this, 15mg of methylene blue with 75mg of vitamin C. NeuroPro, I'm not recommending this, this is just one on Amazon.

• 1:00:19Tim Ferriss?

  It's all over Amazon. God, that's terrifying.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  What would be considered a microdose, in your opinion?

• 1:00:25Tim Ferriss?

  I'd have to go back and look at his actual research. People should listen to the STEM Talk episode.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:00:29Tim Ferriss?

  With Francisco Dunstall.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  This is like a picture somebody put in her purse, like.

• 1:00:33Tim Ferriss?

  Like an EpiPen.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll just take this to go.

• 1:00:36Tim Ferriss?

  Take this to the spa.

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  By the way, the comments, it's so funny you were on this because literally two days ago, I was in here, reading the comments, and they're like, "I'm peeing blue now." Like, you pee blue.

• 1:00:48Tim Ferriss?

  You do pee blue. And that's actually a way individually that you can begin to identify your customized dose.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  Oh, you shouldn't be peeing blue.

• 1:00:58Tim Ferriss?

  No, at what point you go from blue to clear. You can figure out basically what the, probably using not exactly the correct terms, but figure out what the half-life is in your body.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:01:08Tim Ferriss?

  So that you're dosing at the right interval.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  They call this bro-science, by the way, when two guys that don't have.

• 1:01:13Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I mean, I am pretty closely echoing, yes, it is bro-science, but it's bro-science with citations. Meaning, like, don't trust exactly what I'm saying, but go listen to the episode and read his research.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  Dude, look at this.

• 1:01:28Tim Ferriss?

  Methylene blue gummies.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  They're selling gummies now, of methylene blue.

• 1:01:32Tim Ferriss?

  Terrifying. Anyway. Just because it's a supplement doesn't make it safe, folks.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  Amen.

• 1:01:38Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Hemlock, all natural. Turns out, shouldn't have too much of it.

• 1:01:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, killed Socrates.

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 1:01:46Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, so, it's just like arsenic, all natural. Don't go take a shaker bottle full of arsenic.

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Tim Ferriss?

  So, yeah, be careful out there, kids. That definitely has my attention right now, because I think about, say, parental risk, my mom's cognition is slipping, but she's APOE 3.3, her APOE allele profile's 3.3, I'm 3.4, my brother's 3.4, which means we got the 4 from my dad. He's sharp as tack. He is incredibly sharp, and he's older than my mom. So it's like, all right, they both have metabolic dysfunction.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:02:16Tim Ferriss?

  So that's kind of equalized, right? Like, they're fasting glucose and all, that's terrible. It's like, what's going on? Well, you do inherit mitochondria from your mom. And mitochondria are a very big deal. So I'm looking at different levers that I might experiment with in my mom that could also potentially be applied preventatively.

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Tim Ferriss?

  And me and my brother.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the Dale Branson Protocol is, is pretty awesome. He wrote a book about six or seven years ago, maybe it's closer to 10 now.

• 1:02:43Tim Ferriss?

  Nicotin enemas, am I right?

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  Exactly, that's all it is. Which you tried for the first time today.

• 1:02:48Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, geez.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, it was exactly that, but yeah. So, the one thing I like about, it's called The End of Alzheimer's, is the name of his book, is that he's-

• 1:02:58Tim Ferriss?

  Understated.

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. It won't sell any copies with that title. But what he came up with is, he said, okay, listen, the, what we're seeing in the brain is the byproduct of something going hairwire. It's either blood brain barrier breaking down, allowing bad shit in. It could be bacteria, it could be like all slew of different things. It could be, like you said, an issue with blood flow. And it could be, what did you call it, vascular type issue? And he thinks it's like three or four, he thinks it's either vascular, which sauna, other things like that help with, cocovia, like other ways to make sure that you have vascular health, obviously. The mitochondria thing is another one that he's huge on. And then he also thinks it could be toxin related as well.

• 1:03:42Speaker 02

  And talking about how to get those toxins out of your body. But his protocol is very common sense. It's like-

• 1:03:48Tim Ferriss?

  What is it?

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  It is essentially a handful of supplements, which are all the ones that you've basically talked about. Along with, he calls it, it's a lightweight keto, so just making sure you go into lightweight ketosis, like five days a week. And then, you know, obviously no sugar, no refined carbohydrates, like eliminating all that shit. Turns out, exercise, like intense exercise is very important. And he's shown now, over the course of a decade, that he's taken people, actually, you know Kelly Boyes, who we were on the-

• 1:04:20Tim Ferriss?

  Retreat with.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  Retreat with. She's an awesome meditation, she teaches something, this form of relaxing yoga, but-

• 1:04:26Tim Ferriss?

  Yoga medra.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, as an aside, her father- I think she'd be okay to be shown this, we'll double check, but her father had mild cognitive impairment 10 years ago. And they're of course really worried. They put them on the Dill-Bradson protocol and he's scoring better now than he was when he first took the test. 10 years later.

• 1:04:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  And she's like, yeah, he still has issues like here and there, but he's like, you know, like considering his 80s now or something. It's like, but that is, that's what you want, right?

• 1:04:53Tim Ferriss?

  Makes sense, yeah.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  Like even if we can say, okay, mild cognitive impairment is progressing. Like my mom is in this situation. She can't tell you what she had for breakfast, but thankfully she doesn't have Alzheimer's. She has some form of dementia. She remembers me, kids' names, stuff like that, the important things. She would have a hard time telling you what name my dog is. Like there's little things that slide through the cracks. She's sadly really overweight, you know, didn't really want to do that, but the point is if we can see this stuff early enough, where they still have enough of your wits about you to take action.

• 1:05:25Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  Cause compliance is huge, as you know. Like how hard is it to get your family members to go do high intensity like exercise?

• 1:05:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, can I pause for a second?

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:33Tim Ferriss?

  So that's part of the reason why the methylene blue and the photobiomodulation is so interesting. Because for instance, there's a device that is actually worth investigating on some levels called the Cognito device. It's a headset. And it was developed by scientists out of MIT. And it's 40 hertz, I believe, both visual and auditory stimulation. And in rhesus monkeys, pretty recently, in the last year or two, last year, they showed a lot of plaque clearance enhanced by this, right? But that's still, if I'm understanding correctly, people fact check this, but that's still predicated on the theory of disease for Alzheimer's that by removing plaque, you get clinical outcomes, right?

• 1:06:17Tim Ferriss?

  The photobiomodulation, well, I mean, before I get to that. As I understand it, this is an hour a day of wearing this device on your head.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:26Tim Ferriss?

  My mom's not gonna do that.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:06:27Tim Ferriss?

  There's no fucking way.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:06:29Tim Ferriss?

  Right? Nor any of my relatives. However, the photobiomodulation, it's like eight to 10 minutes, laser or LED. LED is a little harder to make work.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  And do you have to go in to do that? Or can you get a device that doesn't?

• 1:06:41Tim Ferriss?

  I'm gonna buy a device. And I'm not recommending people do that. You can really damage your eyes with lasers and so on. But, right now, it's not like you can go to a clinic and be like, "Hey, I'd like to have this treatment." It just doesn't exist. So, let me be the guinea pig before anybody does anything. But, you get this device, and I'm sure it's gonna be very expensive, right? Some of these lasers, like, they're like $30,000. But, eight minutes, eight to 10 minutes, you can see, even after a single session, you can see multiple weeks of effect.

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:07:10Tim Ferriss?

  Crazy.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  And so, it just sits right on top of, into the eye? Or on top of the?

• 1:07:15Tim Ferriss?

  Well, there are devices that go through the eyes, but this one, what makes it so mystifying and away from me, is that it's actually pointed at the forehead.

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:07:23Tim Ferriss?

  As an infrared laser. It's so fascinating.

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:07:27Tim Ferriss?

  There are peer-reviewed, published studies on this, which you can find. Anybody who looks up Gonzales Lima will find it. So, it's exciting. It's super exciting. Because there's certain things, like, I know that my mitochondria are funky. I know that through different types of endurance testing, different types of, obviously, all sorts of stuff done through doctors and tests and blah, blah, blah. There's something funky with the mitochondria. And I'm like, "Okay, well, let's try to get ahead of that."

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:55Tim Ferriss?

  And, actually, related to that, to invoke, I said she would come back, Rhonda Patrick also, you know, was texting with her at one point, because I was listening to Stem Talk, that podcast I mentioned, and I came across a scientist discussing something called the Urolithin A.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  Of course, it might appear.

• 1:08:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, might appear. And, two years ago, maybe it was two years ago, like, she was pretty bearish on it, but there's a lot of new research, or I shouldn't say a lot, there's new research that's come out, and also, met with a couple of biotech people in Boston, who are very respected, I'm not gonna dox them, because I don't want to, but they basically did this, like, comprehensive analysis, and landed on three or four things, and one of them was Urolithin A.

• 1:08:34Speaker 02

  Right. I take 300mg a day.

• 1:08:36Tim Ferriss?

  300? How did you choose 300mg?

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  Because that's what all of the studies are done on. Or, no, sorry, so 500 to 1,000. I take 500mg a day.

• 1:08:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  Clearly, I need to be taking a higher dose.

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  I've only been doing it, do you think I've been doing it for three months to see some results? So, you're one of many people, I don't know, it was close to 200 grand off.

• 1:08:54Tim Ferriss?

  What's, what's a little strange is that, that when you, if you buy the bag, you can get this on Amazon. I'm not recommending you do that, jury's still out, but I'm like, hey, I want to hit mitochondria from as many reasonably plausible mechanisms or angles as possible. You can get Mitopure, it's expensive AF.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was gonna-

• 1:09:11Tim Ferriss?

  It's very expensive.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  I was gonna tell people that the one that people talk about the most in this world, that has done a lot of clinical studies around it, Urolytic A is this company called Timeline, you know, they trademarked the name of it, which is Mitopure. The problem is it's freaking expensive.

• 1:09:27Tim Ferriss?

  It's very, very expensive.

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  And I don't know, is there another company that's out there that has high quality? I'm not gonna put shit into my body, right? So, but I would like to know, is there any company that has-

• 1:09:41Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, when you say expensive, it's like 60 count is $125, right?

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  And you're taking two a day?

• 1:09:46Tim Ferriss?

  It's expensive, yeah.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  So that's 30 days?

• 1:09:47Tim Ferriss?

  And most of the studies actually have people taking a thousand a day. So if you're taking a thousand a day-

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:09:53Tim Ferriss?

  Prices are, you know, the prices are gonna add up.

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  But again, but again- I would trust Pure Encapsulations if they offered some of it. I haven't seen anybody, you know, like there's no other brands that I've seen that, you know, the household names like the Thorns?

• 1:10:08Tim Ferriss?

  The Pures, the ones that-

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  I mean, this is a single SKU, well, not a single SKU, but a single compound company. Like they have a lot vested in IP protection and so on. But it can be synthesized, like they don't own that, that Urolytic A, obviously that, that's something that anyone can produce.

• 1:10:22Tim Ferriss?

  Well, Urolithin A is also, it's called a postbiotic. If you were eating tons of palma granates and walnuts and so on, there are certain things that in your gut by microbes will be converted into in part Urolithin A. The problem is that there's a high degree of variability. So if Kevin eats two handfuls of walnuts and I ate two handfuls of walnuts, we're not gonna get the same amount of Urolithin A out. Fortunately, Urolithin A is very orally bioavailable, which is why the supplementation-

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:10:52Tim Ferriss?

  Potentially makes sense.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  What's interesting is actually Pure Encapsulations does make one. And when you go and look at the label, they actually buy Mitopure for theirs.

• 1:11:00Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, there you go.

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  So they use Mitopure.

• 1:11:02Tim Ferriss?

  Well, Mitopure in this case is almost like a, it's like an industrial grade supplier in so much as Creapure, like if you're buying creatine.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:12Tim Ferriss?

  Like I use Momentous Creatine, they're a sponsor of the podcast, but I like their stuff. And everything is like NSF certified and third party analyzed. Creapure is this supplier, just like maybe Mitopure is.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:24Tim Ferriss?

  It's providing something that is very pure and properly acid and so on and so forth. Okay, so Pure Encapsulations, it's not cheap either, that was 80 bucks.

• 1:11:32Speaker 02

  80 bucks, but that'll get you, hold on, let's just don't do the math here. So $80 for 60 pills. And again, it is 250 mgs per two pills. So that's half the dose.

• 1:11:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, so if you wanted, so per two pills, if you wanted a thousand a day, that's eight per day.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  160, oh, 1,000 a day.

• 1:11:52Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's eight a day.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  But it has other shit in there too, I don't want all this other stuff. The trans, rosveratrol, eh, whatever.

• 1:12:00Tim Ferriss?

  So yeah, it's, it's expensive. That's, that 80 bucks is gonna last you like 12 days, something like that. In any case, guys, jury's out. But it's, but it's interesting enough that I added it into the rotation.

• 1:12:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:12Tim Ferriss?

  I routinely take things out of the rotation also.

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, same.

• 1:12:15Tim Ferriss?

  This one, I've been taking for probably six to eight weeks.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  What's the number one thing that you've kept in rotation for the longest time? I have two, vitamin D, obviously, because my levels are chronically low without it. And I think at this point, it's a no brainer to get your levels where they should be. And then I would say Cocavia is another one that I have had in for a long time.

• 1:12:37Tim Ferriss?

  Cocavia is interesting, yeah.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  Just because it looks really interesting in terms of vascular health. Uh, and then I think that's, well, obviously a high quality omega three. Outside of that, I don't know what else I've had. What's been in your rotation forever?

• 1:12:52Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, a lot of them are dictated by. Genetic analysis and blood biomarkers and so on, right? So outside of prescription stuff, because I am taking things to not die of cardiovascular disease, because everybody in my family gets smoked by some kind of cardiovascular disease. And I'm like, eh, no spring chicken.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  Are you taking Repatha too?

• 1:13:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, taking Repatha.

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  Where do you inject it?

• 1:13:14Tim Ferriss?

  In the thigh. I hate it. It's so painful.

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 1:13:16Tim Ferriss?

  I find it so painful.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. Dude, I can tell you a secret.

• 1:13:19Tim Ferriss?

  What's the secret?

• 1:13:20Speaker 02

  How long do you let the alcohol dry for?

• 1:13:23Tim Ferriss?

  I don't think it's the alcohol.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  Dude, I'm telling you.

• 1:13:25Tim Ferriss?

  I've done thousands of injections of myself.

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  You gotta let it, because if you just like swipe, swipe, swipe, and then go pop, it hurts so, because it's pushing the alcohol down into the cut.

• 1:13:35Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, maybe I'm not waiting long enough because I'm impatient. It's possible because...

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  Are you letting it come to room temperature too?

• 1:13:41Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I did let it come to room temperature.

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  Because you know it takes five times as long to inject it if you don't.

• 1:13:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, there's the prescription stuff. It's not going to apply to too broad a number of people, and I don't want anyone aping it and getting themselves into trouble. But there's, there are like a few prescription meds for lipid profile. It's specifically in my case, cholesterol absorption, hyperabsorption. But I would say supplement wise, omega three, I honestly try to get that from fish when I can. So I eat a lot of canned sardines and mackerel and stuff, which ties into the keto and fast mimicking diet stuff. Vitamin D, yes, although I'm pretty skeptical of like the entire planet having vitamin D deficiency, frankly. I do take it though. Then there's some B vitamin complex stuff.

• 1:14:24Speaker 02

  I do that too.

• 1:14:24Tim Ferriss?

  I'm a shitty methylater, so that's a good idea.

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, same.

• 1:14:27Tim Ferriss?

  And creatine, although I end up looking kind of like a puffy fat baby if I eat too much of that stuff.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  What, you're doing five grams?

• 1:14:34Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, depends on the day, right? So like I took five grams today. If I'm training, I'm going to use at least 10. I'm doing weight training. And then if I'm, I have a crazy travel schedule ahead of me where I'm going to be in like London for one day and Sweden for one day, I'll be taking probably 20 to 30 grams a day because my sleep's going to be so screwed.

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:52Tim Ferriss?

  Just to compensate for the sleep deprivation.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Holy shit. Good luck. Good luck making it to the toilet. Yeah.

• 1:14:59Tim Ferriss?

  Don't don't.

• 1:15:00Speaker 02

  Creatine jacks your stomach up, right?

• 1:15:01Tim Ferriss?

  Don't combine. Actually, I'm fine with creatine. If I get.

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  You told me at one point it was messing you up, though.

• 1:15:07Tim Ferriss?

  Well, there was the story of me, what did I have? I had, I was in San Francisco. This is probably TMI, but whatever. We're all friends here, right? So I was in San Francisco, I had my Volkswagen Golf that got broken into like three times for change. I was so annoyed. San Francisco for the win. And in any case, I had to run to an international flight and I was stressed out because I was running behind. And I was like, well, just before I go, I'm gonna have double espresso, 10 grams of creatine. And then I had MCT oil. And.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:15:41Tim Ferriss?

  And I'm driving on my way to the airport, like in a massive rush. I don't have time for anything.

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:46Tim Ferriss?

  And I leaned to do a little squeaker and just.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 1:15:50Tim Ferriss?

  Full disaster.

• 1:15:52Speaker 02

  In an Uber?

• 1:15:53Tim Ferriss?

  No, in my own car. I park in long-term parking.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  You grab a new pair out of your thing and just wipe and go?

• 1:16:00Tim Ferriss?

  I, oh, God, all right. Can't believe I'm talking about this to millions of people. But basically took the underwear and like some rags that I had, like did what I had to do for like emergency field triage, tossed it under my car.

• 1:16:14Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:16:15Tim Ferriss?

  Put on my pants.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  Throw it in the trash, dude.

• 1:16:18Tim Ferriss?

  Put on my pants, no, I literally was like about to miss my flight. Put my pants on commando style and then ran on and got on the flight.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:16:25Tim Ferriss?

  And I was just like, I'm sorry, everybody. I know this can't be too much a wonderful clone for anyone.

• 1:16:32Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 1:16:34Tim Ferriss?

  We might need to edit some of that. So, yeah, don't do those three at once. If you're getting creepier creatine, I don't find it to mess up my stomach at all. Totally fine. If you combine it with caffeine and MCT oil.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  MCT oil is the devil, dude.

• 1:16:47Tim Ferriss?

  All bets are off. All bets are off.

• 1:16:48Speaker 02

  That stuff just goes straight through you. I don't know a single person that can do high dose MCT and be like, oh, my stomach's fine.

• 1:16:54Tim Ferriss?

  Like, yeah, no, you're gonna, you should just pre-order the subscription of Depends.

• 1:16:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:58Tim Ferriss?

  For Amazon. Uh, let me mention one other thing. So related to all the mental health stuff. It sounds like we're doing like tons of stuff, millions of things. It's actually not that complicated for me, right? There are a few supplements that I'm taking consistently, the creatine, the uralithin, et cetera. There are a few things I'm considering, like methylene blue. If photobiomodulation, right, with the lasers or LEDs is something that you can experiment with once a week or once every few weeks and track changes over time, let's do that and before and after cognitive testing. Intermittent ketosis, which I find easiest to do through intermittent fasting, frankly, which I'll be doing when I travel also.

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:17:38Tim Ferriss?

  I find it's helpful with jet lag. And then there's the exercise, right? And so what kind of exercise? I did a podcast with Dr. Tommy Wood recently, fascinating guy. People should listen to that episode. But four by four Norwegian high intensity training, which is like, you're basically doing, I guess it would be considered zone four, you're really maxing out your heart rate. And you're doing four minutes on, three minutes off, four minutes on, three minutes off, four minutes on. You're repeating that four times. And it is very much puke inducing. It's a lot of lactic acid.

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:10Tim Ferriss?

  The problem has always been, or one of the problems has always been that if I'm traveling, stationary bikes in hotels are just terrible. Like, they will destroy my knees. They're just too inconsistent in terms of settings and stuff. So I was texting with Tommy, I don't think he'd mind me saying, I'll have to double check with him, but I asked him, I said, if, in the conversation we had, I was like, well, what are the drivers here? Is it VO2 max? So people talk about VO2 max, VO2 max, VO2 max. And he said, well, lactate actually seems to be a big driver, like lactic acid.

• 1:18:40Speaker 02

  Driver of what?

• 1:18:41Tim Ferriss?

  Driver of the cognitive changes, like the neuroanatomical and vascular changes. And it's like, okay, well, hold on a second. I was like, if that's the case, there are certain ways of weight training, like if you do 20 rep squats in slow cadence, or any number of different things, like you are going to be brimming with lactic acid, could that possibly achieve the same effect?

• 1:19:03Speaker 02

  You don't think it's cloto?

• 1:19:04Tim Ferriss?

  Clot is another part of it.

• 1:19:05Speaker 02

  Cause cloto has been shown, like, it is what creates cloto in the humans.

• 1:19:09Tim Ferriss?

  Well, cloto, cloto is another piece. I don't think it's the only piece. I think that, I mean, look, I can't wait for us to have proper injectable cloto, or a lever to pull. But in the meantime, I guess the, right now, today, what I'm saying is like, high intensity interval training when you're traveling is not always is the easiest thing to do.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 1:19:28Tim Ferriss?

  But like, for instance, when I go back to my hotel tonight.

• 1:19:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:31Tim Ferriss?

  Can I do like a couple of sets of very high repetition leg presses? And just basically have lactic acid pouring out my eyeballs? Yeah, I can do that. And I can do it in like five minutes. And there are many open questions about it. But that's the approach I'm taking. And what's really cool about the Norwegian four by four that Tommy describes, and I think I'm remembering this correctly, is that if you do it, I think it's three times a week for six months. You can observe the effects, the beneficial effects for like five years afterwards.

• 1:20:02Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:20:03Tim Ferriss?

  Holy shit. Isn't that fucking crazy?

• 1:20:04Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 1:20:05Tim Ferriss?

  The durability of the effects are just nuts.

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  Okay, this is what I gotta, I'll start by like one by one or something to get going.

• 1:20:12Tim Ferriss?

  Four by four, if you're doing it properly. I use a Morpheus chest strap.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. But you're assuming a certain level of like baseline cardiovascular fitness and do four by four.

• 1:20:26Tim Ferriss?

  Not, not really, because, I mean, look, you don't, you don't like blow yourself apart, but it's heart rate based, right?

• 1:20:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:20:32Tim Ferriss?

  So if you get winded and your heart gets going, walking on a flight of stairs, like you're not going to need very much to get into the proper zone. I will say for me, and this comes back to the mitochondrial discussion. And I've had doctors who are like, that's nonsense. It's all mediated by the lungs or it's actually not mediated by the lungs. It's all like heart stroke volume. I'm like, my legs crap out first.

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:52Tim Ferriss?

  Before my heart rate gets to where it needs to be, my legs are the weak link.

• 1:20:56Speaker 02

  Oh dude.

• 1:20:57Tim Ferriss?

  The fatigue in my legs.

• 1:20:58Speaker 02

  I've got boots for you tonight. Can I put the boots on while you have dinner?

• 1:21:01Tim Ferriss?

  Are these the?

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  The ones that go all the way up the leg?

• 1:21:04Tim Ferriss?

  Norma Tech?

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:05Tim Ferriss?

  I'll try them, yeah.

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  Have you ever tried them?

• 1:21:06Tim Ferriss?

  I have, I love those.

• 1:21:07Speaker 02

  Oh, they're so good. For people who don't know real quick, the quickest line, you just squeeze and then move the blood around in your legs. Great for recovery.

• 1:21:14Tim Ferriss?

  It's like, if you want to feel like a Kobe cow.

• 1:21:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:21:19Tim Ferriss?

  Throw some Norma Tech boots, have a cold beer while you're doing it.

• 1:21:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, we could do both those things tonight. I mean, that's it from my side.

• 1:21:26Tim Ferriss?

  That's a lot.

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  I've got some doom and gloom AI shit, but I don't want to talk about that.

• 1:21:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, no, let's save the doom and gloom for next time.

• 1:21:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:31Tim Ferriss?

  I think you're getting contagion from one of our other friends. The, I left out something that's kind of important.

• 1:21:36Speaker 02

  I just got to show you what you're talking about. We have a buddy that just like, we text with, and we love you if you're listening.

• 1:21:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:42Speaker 02

  But he's like, "The world is ending."

• 1:21:45Tim Ferriss?

  It's a lot of, it's, it's, I can only, I lean dystopian anyway. It's like, I don't need anyone feeding that hypervigilant, like, I need to become John Connor. Like, I don't.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:55Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, plus, it's like, can I do anything? What, what am I gonna do? What's Timmy gonna do?

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:22:00Tim Ferriss?

  You know, the fucking genie's out of the bottle, folks. So, we'll save the doom and gloom for next time, but in terms of an actionable thing, like, something I just did before coming here.

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:08Tim Ferriss?

  Let's say you want to experiment with this lactate as lever.

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:14Tim Ferriss?

  For cognitive longevity.

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:16Tim Ferriss?

  Right? Like, that's interesting. Okay. Uh, and, let's just say furthermore, to your point, right? Everybody's getting older, and, believe me, maybe you're like 20-year-old dude and feeling immortal. Those like fucked up joints and broken bones will add up, and they will come back to haunt you like the ghost of Christmas past. So if you're trying to minimize injury risk, right? And lifting, there are a couple of different ways you can do it. One, that I've been a proponent of for a long time, is slow down. Five seconds up, five seconds down, 10 seconds up, 10 seconds down.

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  Time under tension is, is huge, right?

• 1:22:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, so it's like, look, if you're not a competitive powerlifter, consider moving slowly. What that requires you to do is lower the weight. You're also not gonna be using momentum.

• 1:22:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:59Tim Ferriss?

  The second thing.

• 1:23:00Speaker 02

  Testosterone.

• 1:23:02Tim Ferriss?

  Well, not for lactate, but the second, yeah, I mean, sure, when in doubt. Yeah, testosterone.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  When in doubt.

• 1:23:07Tim Ferriss?

  When in doubt.

• 1:23:07Speaker 02

  200mg once a week.

• 1:23:09Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's a joke, people, but.

• 1:23:11Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, if you have it, you, well, anyway, don't do that.

• 1:23:15Tim Ferriss?

  The second, the second thing you can do, which I've been experimenting with, which Tommy Wood uses all the time, especially when traveling, is blood flow restriction cuff.

• 1:23:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:23:23Tim Ferriss?

  And so.

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  I used to have some of those before my fire happened.

• 1:23:26Tim Ferriss?

  Yes.

• 1:23:26Speaker 02

  So I would blood flow, I got the automatic ones that would automatically keep the pressure, too.

• 1:23:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, you're not gonna be, you don't know how to use like a hand pump. I've got the, I'm using the Katsu. Yeah, my more digital Katsu, yeah. A T S U C four. I'm using the C four because I'm like, I don't want another app on my phone. Oh, I got the app. That's nice. Look, if people want apps, they can. I'm kind of along the Bill Burr lines of like, I need to install fucking app to use my toaster now. Like, please, shoot me. My hummingbird feeder. Oh, yeah, we'll talk about that. Let me finish the blood flow restriction. We're all over the place. Alright, so the blood flow restriction, all it is to cuff, it inflates and it causes a partial occlusion, right? It's cutting off circulation to your arms or your legs. And there's a lot of really good science on this. You can check it out. But what you can do when traveling, and I'm trying this right now. Tommy Wood, by the way,

• 1:24:16Tim Ferriss?

  is a phenomenal athlete, endurance and strong man, in addition to being an incredible researcher. I don't know where they breed these people, like Dominic D'Agostino, same thing, like 500 pound deadlift for 10 reps after a seven day fast. Like, who are these people? Anyway, Tommy's a beast. When he's traveling and he doesn't lose muscle when he's doing this, he'll use blood flow restriction and he'll bring bands. He'll just have a bunch of bands. And I gotta tell you, I like to think of myself as reasonably strong. I'm not a world-class powerlifter, but like, I think, like generally, pretty strong. I put on those cuffs today and I was like, I think I'll just bump it from light up to medium. Like 20 pounds? Uh, well, it's, it has a different metric. It has a different. Band strength?

• 1:25:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, in terms of, there's. Extra large or extra strong? I can't remember. Yeah, I mean, it's, if you use the Katsu bands. There are many other brands. Tommy uses a different brand. You can find it in the podcast and put in the show notes. But suffice to say, it's like you're using very, very light weights. And it's like, I can probably do hammer curls with like 40 pound dumbbells. Let's just say. Wait, with those on? No. No, that's what I was gonna say. That's way too much weight. Normally, right, with reasonable cadence, not swinging around, I can probably do hammer curls like with 40 pounds without too much trouble. With the blood flow restriction bands on?

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  Like literally 20 pounds is all you need.

• 1:25:41Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, 10 pounds.

• 1:25:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:43Tim Ferriss?

  And I was doing like 30 reps and then take 15 second rest, then 20 reps, 15 second rest, like 10 to 50 reps.

• 1:25:51Speaker 02

  So you have the C4s, these bad boys?

• 1:25:53Tim Ferriss?

  I've got the C4s, yeah. And, uh, and the, look, Katsu's expensive. These are what? $1,259. Like, that is expensive. There are other options that are not that expensive. But then the one that really was humbling is, I was like, okay, I'll just do pushups for like triceps.

• 1:26:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:26:09Tim Ferriss?

  Just to, because I only brought the armbands. I didn't bring the leg bands and everything. This time around, I can just do like walking lunges. Trust me. You can smoke yourself doing those. But was doing pushups and I was like, well, let me start moderate. I'll just start on like a bench. That's about 18 inches off the ground. I'll do some pushups. And I did like 25 and I'm like, wow, that's a lot harder than I would expect, right? Cause like on the ground, I could probably do, I don't know, 40, like good form, 50 pushups. And I did, I did 25. I was like, wow, that's uncomfortable. And then I went to do the next set, got like five and I was like, oh, I can't do it. And so I increased my, basically elevated myself to make it easier, right? And I'm doing it on like the, the seat of a hamstring curl machine, did like 12.

• 1:26:55Tim Ferriss?

  Couldn't do anymore. And then I got, I got to the point where I was literally doing pushups. It's so humbling on like the railing of some stairs. I was like, I'm basically standing up straight and I did 30 reps and I was like, this.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:27:08Tim Ferriss?

  Really.

• 1:27:09Speaker 02

  Real quick.

• 1:27:10Tim Ferriss?

  Keeps your ego in check.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  20 second version, why is it working? Why is restricting blood flow working? Why is it building more muscle?

• 1:27:17Tim Ferriss?

  It's doing a few different things. It's also increasing like capillary density and vasculature. It's having a whole host of effects. I, to be honest.

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  But doesn't it increase HGH as well, localized?

• 1:27:28Tim Ferriss?

  It might. It makes you sweat your balls off too.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  And then I had another question.

• 1:27:32Tim Ferriss?

  Not to get too technical, but could it work?

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  Could that work? Kevin's asking me if you could use blood flow restriction on your I didn't want to bring it up unless On your schwanz. So, listen. I think it sounds like a terrible idea. No, listen, they have rings that you can put around your schlunks. And, but listen, hear me out. I know those exist. I just literally Googled that there is smooth muscle tissue in there. Yeah. If you're telling me that you're putting bands on your arms, doing lifts. How are you gonna do lifts with your schwanz? You have to have a schlunk correction. And then you do like some Sheldon Monk, like. Well, if you have the band, I'm just saying, this is theory. Oh, I guess you could like do manual resistance, you could push it down and then bring it back up.

• 1:28:18Speaker 02

  Like it's down five seconds up. You know what's crazy is like, we, obviously everyone knows this is a joke, but it might not be. You know what I mean? Do not. This could be real. Do not, yeah, do not rap. Well, they have rings that they sell in stores. Yeah, yeah, okay.

• 1:28:35Speaker 02

  I think you can, you can try that and then report back in the next. Have you ever used one of the rings? I don't think so. You have to. No, I mean, I would. Why not? Yeah, I mean, why not? As long as you're not gonna like, completely, it's not gonna just like fall off. Apparently it's so it locks the blood in. Well, obviously, yeah. Yeah, well, obviously in verbula don't know, pre Viagra era. We're talking about cock rings, we're speaking in fucking riddles here. It's like, that's what they're called. We're speaking in Zen talk. It's like, what is the sound of one? Yeah, okay. It's really fucking went in the gutter. Yeah. Quickly. Well, it was the end of the episode, so. Hummingbirds. Hummingbirds. Okay, so before we started the show Tim's like, you gotta mention the hummingbirds. Well, I looked at your, your draft and I was like, you gotta talk about your hummingbird thing. You've sent me a bunch of these videos.

• 1:29:20Speaker 02

  Dude, they're so cool. Okay, so essentially for Christmas, I got my, my kids a hummingbird feeder with a digital camera built in. And the cool thing about it is it charges from the sunlight and then also, so the camera just always stays on. And then also it detects what, in this case, is the hummingbird, but they have them for normal birds as well. But it'll tell you the variety of hummingbird that landed. Ah, I know that. And then it uses AI and then you can name them. And so we have one named-

• 1:29:49Tim Ferriss?

  Tony, Tony's back.

• 1:29:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. We have one named Sunset, our girl's name is Sunset, because it has this beautiful red neck. And, and we're like, I'll get a text notification, Sunset is drinking-

• 1:29:59Tim Ferriss?

  This is the one?

• 1:29:59Speaker 02

  That's the one.

• 1:30:00Tim Ferriss?

  Bird Buddy.

• 1:30:01Speaker 02

  Bird Buddy, Smart Solar Pro Hummingbird Feeder. And it's fun, people, because these things are so beautiful.

• 1:30:09Tim Ferriss?

  The videos are amazing.

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  The videos are amazing, and then they play with each other, and you watch them hovering, and you get full audio, so you see their little tiny tongues like sticking out. It's just amazing, it's really cool.

• 1:30:20Tim Ferriss?

  The videos were quite cool.

• 1:30:21Speaker 02

  Then, I got the one that is for just standard birds, which has bird feed that comes down.

• 1:30:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  And motherfucker, squirrels are taking it over.

• 1:30:31Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, they're just-

• 1:30:32Speaker 02

  They are ruthless, they jump, like there's nothing you could do to keep them out of it, like they will spring onto it, and then you see they're like, sadly, they look out because they don't want to get attacked.

• 1:30:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  And so you just, all I have is squirrel ass on my freaking camera, I'm like, god damn it, like, how do I get rid of the squirrels?

• 1:30:50Tim Ferriss?

  Have you, have you heard of Mark Rober? Does this name anything to you? Who created like the ultimate squirrel ninja warrior course in his backyard, and put it on YouTube? Yeah, there we go. Alright, Mark Rober, squirrels. I think he had the same problem. Here we go, backyard squirrel maze 1.0 ninja warrior course.

• 1:31:11Speaker 02

  You have to keep them out?

• 1:31:12Tim Ferriss?

  People have to check this out. Ah, oh, no ads, no free ads.

• 1:31:16Speaker 02

  I gotta pay for my pro.

• 1:31:18Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you're not paying the $5 a month?

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  I'm not logging in.

• 1:31:20Tim Ferriss?

  You're buying $7,000 Japanese vintage jackets, so you don't pay $5 to get rid of these goddamn ads?

• 1:31:27Tim Ferriss?

  So, here, all those ads.

• 1:31:28Speaker 02

  Whoa!

• 1:31:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, look at this setup.

• 1:31:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:31:31Tim Ferriss?

  So, this is like Mr. Beast for squirrels.

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  It's, oh yeah, like, these guys just get-

• 1:31:39Tim Ferriss?

  God, it's totally Mr. Beast for squirrels, like you have them do all these obstacle courses.

• 1:31:44Speaker 02

  They stick their head through and then they get a photo taken?

• 1:31:51Tim Ferriss?

  All right, we'll link to that.

• 1:31:52Speaker 02

  People, you have to watch this video.

• 1:31:53Tim Ferriss?

  Backyard squirrel maze 1.0 by Mark Rober.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  Dude, this is-

• 1:31:56Tim Ferriss?

  R O B E R, 144 million views.

• 1:31:59Speaker 02

  See, this is the kind of shit where I'm like, I should have come up with this idea. Like, this is too good.

• 1:32:04Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 1:32:05Speaker 02

  Solid.

• 1:32:06Tim Ferriss?

  Hummingbirds and cockrings.

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, we covered it all this time, people.

• 1:32:10Tim Ferriss?

  This is the Random Show.

• 1:32:12Speaker 02

  Brother, good to see you.

• 1:32:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, good to see you too, man.

• 1:32:14Speaker 02

  Glad you're feeling better and-

• 1:32:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, continue.

• 1:32:17Speaker 02

  To be continued.

• 1:32:18Tim Ferriss?

  All right, folks, we'll put everything in the show notes, tim.blog/podcastrandomshow. It's gonna be one of those. Search for cockrings, it'll be the only result on tim.blog. And until next time, take care of yourselves, be nice. Be a little kinder than is necessary, yourselves and to others. Hey, guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half-page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered,

• 1:33:02Tim Ferriss?

  or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them, and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog/friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog/friday, drop in your email, and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

• 1:33:44Tim Ferriss?

  Listeners have heard me talk about making before you manage for years. All that means to me is that when I wake up, I block out three to four hours to do the most important things that are generative, creative, podcasting, writing, et cetera, before I get to the email and the admin stuff and the reactive stuff and everyone else's agenda for my time. For me, I need to find people who are great at managing, and that is where Crescent Family Office comes in. You spell it C-R-E-S-S-E-T. Crescent Family Office. I was introduced to them by one of the top CPG investors in the world. Crescent is a prestigious family office for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs. They handle the complex financial planning, uncertain tax strategies, timely exit planning,

• 1:34:27Tim Ferriss?

  bill pay, wires, all the dozens of other parts of wealth management, just financial management, that would otherwise pull me away from doing what I love most: baking things, mastering skills, spending time with the people I care about. And over many years, I was getting pulled away from that stuff, at least a few days a week, and I've completely eliminated that. So, experience the freedom of focusing on what matters to you with the support of a top wealth management team. You can schedule a call today at cressetcapital.com/tim. That's spelled C-R-E-S-S-E-T. cressetcapital.com/tim to see how Crescent can help streamline your financial plans and grow your wealth. That's cressetcapital.com/tim.

• 1:35:09Tim Ferriss?

  And disclosure, I am a client of Crescent and receive cash compensation per episode for this testimonial. I am also a shareholder of Crescent's parent company, creating a financial conflict of interest. My experience may not be representative of other clients, and all investing involves risk, including loss of principal. So, do your due diligence. Sleep is the key to it all. It is the foundation. Many of you heard me talk about how today's sponsor, Eight Sleep, has improved my sleep with its Pod cover. Pod5 introduces Eight Sleep's latest product, the Blanket, which uses the same technology as the Pod's cover to extend temperature regulation across the entire body. On average, members report the Pod has helped them fall asleep 44% faster.

• 1:35:53Tim Ferriss?

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