#446: Blake Mycoskie — TOMS, The Hoffman Process, Conscious Uncoupling, and Psychedelics

Blake Mycoskie (@BlakeMycoskie https://www.instagram.com/blakemycoskie/) is a serial entrepreneur, philanthropist, and best-selling author, most known for founding TOMS Shoes https://www.toms.com/. He is also the person behind the idea of One for One®, a business model that helps a person in need with every product purchased. Since its inception, TOMS Shoes has provided almost 96 million pairs of shoes to children around the globe. In 2014, after selling half of the company to Bain Capital, Blake stepped down as CEO of TOMS. Utilizing half of his proceeds, he started The Social Entrepreneurship Fund https://www.tsef.com/ to help early startups with core social missions get off the ground with much-needed funding. Since then, he has invested in more than 25 social enterprises. In the spring of 2020, Blake co-founded his newest company, Madefor https://getmadefor.com/, which offers a 10-month program that applies the principles of modern neuroscience, psychology, and physiology to make your brain and body better. Created alongside scientists from Stanford, Harvard, and other top universities, Madefor helps people learn and sustain positive habits and practices that have the greatest impact on their lives. Listeners of this podcast can use code TIM to get 20% off the all-in and monthly plans. As the New York Times best-selling author of the 2011 book Start Something That Matters https://www.amazon.com/Start-Something-Matters-Blake-Mycoskie/dp/0812981448/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20, Blake offered his own story of inspiration and the power of incorporating giving in business. Blake also recently expanded his philanthropic efforts to include the funding of The Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/ at Johns Hopkins, making it the first such research center in the US and the largest of its kind in the world https://tim.blog/2019/09/10/largest-psychedelic-research-center/. * This episode is brought to you by LMNT http://drinklmnt.com/tim! What is LMNT? It’s a delicious, sugar-free electrolyte drink-mix http://drinklmnt.com/tim. I’ve stocked up on boxes and boxes of this and usually use it 1–2 times per day. LMNT http://drinklmnt.com/tim is formulated to help anyone with their electrolyte needs and perfectly suited to folks following a keto, low-carb, or Paleo diet. If you are on a low-carb diet or fasting, electrolytes play a key role in relieving hunger, cramps, headaches, tiredness, and dizziness. LMNT http://drinklmnt.com/tim came up with a very special offer for you, my dear listeners. They’ve created Tim’s Club: Simply go to DrinkLMNT.com/TIM http://drinklmnt.com/tim, select “Subscribe and Save,” and use promo code TIMSCLUB to get the 30-count box of LMNT for only $36. This will be valid for the lifetime of the subscription, and you can pause it anytime. *** If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tim-ferriss-show/id863897795?mt=2/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts http://tim.blog/transcripts. Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Please fill out the form at tim.blog/sponsor http://tim.blog/sponsor. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books http://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast include Jerry Seinfeld https://tim.blog/2020/12/08/jerry-seinfeld/, Hugh Jackman https://tim.blog/2020/06/26/hugh-jackman/, Dr. Jane Goodall https://tim.blog/2020/04/16/jane-goodall/, LeBron James https://tim.blog/2018/11/27/lebron-james-mike-mancias/, Kevin Hart https://tim.blog/2020/05/20/kevin-hart/, Doris Kearns Goodwin https://tim.blog/2018/09/07/doris-kearns-goodwin-leadership/, Jamie Foxx https://tim.blog/2015/12/06/jamie-foxx/, Matthew McConaughey https://tim.blog/2020/10/19/matthew-mcconaughey/, Esther Perel https://tim.blog/2017/05/21/esther-perel/, Elizabeth Gilbert https://tim.blog/2020/05/08/elizabeth-gilbert/, Terry Crews https://tim.blog/2017/12/20/terry-crews-how-to-have-do-and-be-all-you-want/, Sia https://tim.blog/2020/08/12/sia/, Yuval Noah Harari https://tim.blog/2020/10/27/yuval-noah-harari/, Malcolm Gladwell https://tim.blog/2016/06/21/malcolm-gladwell/, Madeleine Albright https://tim.blog/2020/05/27/secretary-madeleine-albright/, Cheryl Strayed https://tim.blog/2017/03/30/cheryl-strayed/, Jim Collins https://tim.blog/2019/02/18/jim-collins/, Mary Karr, https://tim.blog/2020/11/11/mary-karr/ Maria Popova https://tim.blog/2014/10/21/brain-pickings/, Sam Harris https://tim.blog/2020/05/15/sam-harris-2/, Michael Phelps https://tim.blog/2021/01/21/michael-phelps-grant-hackett/, Bob Iger https://tim.blog/2020/01/16/bob-iger/, Edward Norton https://tim.blog/2019/10/31/edward-norton-motherless-brooklyn/, Arnold Schwarzenegger https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/, Neil Strauss https://tim.blog/2014/06/24/neil-strauss/, Ken Burns https://tim.blog/2019/09/12/ken-burns/, Maria Sharapova https://tim.blog/2017/08/26/maria-sharapova/, Marc Andreessen https://tim.blog/2016/05/29/marc-andreessen/, Neil Gaiman https://tim.blog/2019/03/28/neil-gaiman/, Neil de Grasse Tyson https://tim.blog/2019/10/03/neil-degrasse-tyson/, Jocko Willink https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/, Daniel Ek https://tim.blog/2020/12/03/daniel-ek/, Kelly Slater https://tim.blog/2020/09/08/kelly-slater/, Dr. Peter Attia https://tim.blog/2019/11/27/peter-attia-fasting-metformin-longevity/, Seth Godin https://tim.blog/2016/02/10/seth-godin/, Howard Marks https://tim.blog/2018/09/25/howard-marks/, Dr. Brené Brown https://tim.blog/2020/02/06/brene-brown-striving-self-acceptance-saving-marriages/, Eric Schmidt https://tim.blog/2019/04/09/eric-schmidt/, Michael Lewis https://tim.blog/2020/05/01/michael-lewis/, Joe Gebbia https://tim.blog/2018/03/08/joe-gebbia-co-founder-of-airbnb/, Michael Pollan https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-your-mind/, Dr. Jordan Peterson https://tim.blog/2021/03/01/jordan-peterson/, Vince Vaughn https://tim.blog/2017/05/31/vince-vaughn/, Brian Koppelman https://tim.blog/2020/04/23/brian-koppelman/, Ramit Sethi https://tim.blog/2019/05/07/ramit-sethi/, Dax Shepard https://tim.blog/2020/11/18/dax-shepard/, Tony Robbins https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/, Jim Dethmer https://tim.blog/2020/05/18/jim-dethmer/, Dan Harris https://tim.blog/2020/11/19/dan-harris/, Ray Dalio https://tim.blog/2017/09/13/ray-dalio/, Naval Ravikant https://tim.blog/2015/08/18/the-evolutionary-angel-naval-ravikant/, Vitalik Buterin https://tim.blog/2021/03/08/vitalik-buterin-naval-ravikant/, Elizabeth Lesser https://tim.blog/2021/03/16/elizabeth-lesser/, Amanda Palmer https://tim.blog/2019/04/18/amanda-palmer-2/, Katie Haun https://tim.blog/2021/02/18/katie-haun/, Sir Richard Branson https://tim.blog/2017/10/09/richard-branson/, Chuck Palahniuk https://tim.blog/2020/09/02/chuck-palahniuk/, Arianna Huffington https://tim.blog/2017/10/18/arianna-huffington/, Reid Hoffman https://tim.blog/2015/08/31/the-oracle-of-silicon-valley-reid-hoffman-plus-michael-mccullough/, Bill Burr https://tim.blog/2017/09/17/bill-burr/, Whitney Cummings https://tim.blog/2015/06/26/whitney-cummings/, Rick Rubin https://tim.blog/2015/05/15/rick-rubin/, Dr. Vivek Murthy https://tim.blog/2020/03/26/vivek-murthy/, Darren Aronofsky https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/, and many more. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a personal question?

• 0:08Blake Mycoskie?

  No, I would have seen an appropriate time.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 0:24Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Ascent Protein. I've been using Ascent as my primary protein powder for three years now. It's clean, efficient, super easy on the stomach. Ever since I wrote The 4-Hour Body, starting my day with at least 30 grams of protein has been part of my routine. It's part of the slow carb diet. It's used to recompose your body, to lose fat, etc. It's very effective. Ascent Protein is the easiest way to get this done. Sometimes you just don't feel like cooking a meal. I trust Ascent because they offer what most companies can't: premium protein. They control the production from start to finish. They're vertically integrated. There are zero artificial ingredients, zero artificial sweeteners, and zero added sugar. They really do their homework in R&D. This impressed me when I was having tons of email

• 1:09Tim Ferriss?

  back and forth to try to assess them. As one example, they tested 282 versions of the chocolate flavor, which is my favorite, before getting it just right. A few more things: all Ascent products are informed sports certified to be free of banned substances. One scoop contains 25 grams of protein and more muscle repairing BCAAs, those are branched-chain amino acids, than an equivalent serving of chicken, beef, eggs, or salmon. They also are gluten-free and soy-free. So you add one scoop, or one and a half scoops, to a shaker bottle, that's what I do, or let's say five to six ounces of water, and you can do that in the morning, as I do. You can do it post-workout, as I also do after kettleball swings and so on. You shake it up, and you have a full serving of elite protein in less than 60 seconds. So,

• 1:55Tim Ferriss?

  take a look, check it out. I have my entire pantry stocked with this stuff, with the chocolate specifically. Check out Ascent Protein, that's A-S-C-E-N-T protein.com/tim, and use the code TIMASSENT for 20% off your purchase. Again, that's ascentprotein.com/tim and use code TIMASSENT for 20% off. The discount code will also work on amazon.com if you shop Ascent Protein. Again, it's TIMASSENT as a code for 20% off.

• 2:29Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Readwise. Readwise is one of the cooler things I've found in the last year or two, sent to me by one of my best friends. It is an app that helps you remember significantly more of what you read. In fact, on average, their users report remembering 84% more of what they've read and highlighted. And it can take a few different forms. You can sign up for the service. That's readwise.io/tim and get a daily email, which I do. So I've got in front of me one example with highlights from Fooled by Randomness, Sapiens, Priceless, and a bunch of other books. And it has a bunch of advanced features on top of that. But we've all had the experience of reading a book or article, looking back a couple of weeks later to realize that you don't remember anything from it or next to nothing.

• 3:13Tim Ferriss?

  Readwise solves this problem by integrating with Kindle, Pocket, iBooks, Instapaper, and more to send you a daily digest of all your highlights. So it helps you to build a fun daily habit. I love getting these emails, which I can't believe I'm even saying because I hate email, but I love getting these. So you get a daily email in simplest form, and you can review and actually use the hundreds or perhaps even thousands of highlights that are just sitting in your reading devices, collecting cyber dust. And this simple habit of reviewing your highlights daily can dramatically improve how much information you retain through spaced repetition and actually use. And quite frankly, it's just fun. It's really fun to see what you've highlighted over the years and forgotten about. Some of it's really good. I mean, these are things that ostensibly you wanted to remember.

• 3:56Tim Ferriss?

  Readwise also provides tools for organizing your books, articles, and highlights. So tagging, searching, adding notes, creating flashcards, all that kind of stuff. You can even tell Readwise to automatically export your highlights to Evernote. This is a big deal for me. I've had to do this manually in the past, but Readwise makes it painless and super, super simple. And it just takes seconds to sign up. I was astonished by this. I thought the importing from the Kindle would take a really long time. It takes no time at all. And believe it or not, you can also use Readwise with paper books. That is, if you have a paperback or something, you can automatically get the top popular highlights for your book simply by adding their titles. And you can also create your own highlights with the app's camera highlighting feature. This stuff is super cool.

• 4:37Tim Ferriss?

  So there's no reason not to try this out. I think it's incredibly, incredibly useful, incredibly cool and very fun. Go to readwise.io forward slash Tim. That's readwise.io forward slash Tim for two month free trial offered exclusively to Tim Ferriss Show listeners. Again, that's readwise.io forward slash Tim for a two month free trial. Readwise.io forward slash Tim. Check it out. This episode is brought to you by AG1, the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health. I do get asked a lot what I would take if I could only take one supplement. And the true answer is invariably AG1. It simply covers a ton of bases. I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with

• 5:21Tim Ferriss?

  me on the road. So what is AG1? AG1 is a science driven formulation of vitamins, probiotics, and whole food sourced nutrients. In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system. So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription purchase. So learn more, check it out. Go to drinkag1.com/Tim. That's drink AG1, the number one. Drinkag1.com/Tim. Last time, drinkag1.com/Tim. Check it out.

• 6:02Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. My guest today is a friend Blake Mycoskie. You can find him on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, at Blake Mycoskie, M Y C O S K I E. Blake is a serial entrepreneur, that's an understatement, philanthropist and bestselling author, most known for founding TOMS Shoes and is the person behind the concept of one for one, which of course you've run into at some point since, a business model that helps a person in need with every product purchased. TOMS Shoes has provided nearly 96 million pairs of shoes to children around the globe since its inception. In 2014, after selling half of the company at Bain Capital, Blake stepped down as CEO of TOMS. Utilizing half of his proceeds, he started the social

• 6:47Tim Ferriss?

  Entrepreneurship Fund to help early startups with core social missions get off the ground with much needed funding. Since then, he's invested more than 25 social enterprises, and has also expanded his philanthropic efforts to include the funding of the Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at Johns Hopkins, making it the first such research center in the US and the largest of its kind in the world. In the spring of 2020, that is right about now, Blake co-founded his newest company, Made For, GetMadeFor.com, a 10-month program that applies the principles of modern neuroscience, psychology, and physiology to make your brain and body better. Created alongside scientists from Stanford, Harvard, and other top universities, Made For,

• 7:27Tim Ferriss?

  all one word, M-A-D-E-F-O-R, helps people learn and sustain positive habits and practices that have the greatest impact on their lives. Blake, welcome back to the show. Thanks, Tim. It's good to be here.

• 7:41Tim Ferriss?

  We have had many, many conversations over the years, and I want to say it's context for folks that we have done a podcast episode previously in person where we cover a lot of the Tom story, so we won't duplicate that here, but I think it's important to provide at least a little bit of context for folks. And for those who want to find the earlier episode, you can just go to tim.blog/podcast and search Blake, and it'll pop right up. I think it's number 249, which is incredibly almost 200 episodes ago. Wow, that's crazy. It's bonkers. And you and I have had many life changes, gone through many chapters. That's for sure.

• 8:24Tim Ferriss?

  It just feels like lifetimes. And to paint a picture, if we go back in time for folks who know you for Tom's, but maybe not the collection of other businesses that you've started. So at 29, and you're older than 29 now, of course, but at 29, you'd already done, not necessarily in this order, but outdoor advertising, driver's education, laundry, and built a television network.

• 8:50Blake Mycoskie?

  I got busy early.

• 8:52Tim Ferriss?

  You got busy early and your family story is incredible. We won't necessarily duplicate all of that, but just as an anecdote for folks, your parents literally used to sell their blood to pay their rent, I believe, because they were so poor during medical school. There's a certain amount of initiative in the family, it would seem. But what would you say drove you or compelled you to start all of these businesses? If you're sort of looking under the hood, knowing what you know now, what is it that has driven you to build all of these things? And it doesn't have to be a single answer, but I'm just, I'm so curious, since you are so, so incredibly productive and just back to back to back have done so much. How would you begin to speak to that?

• 9:37Blake Mycoskie?

  I would say the, the thing that probably is the greatest contributor to that was the discipline and drive that I learned as a young child trying to become a professional tennis player. My whole life growing up from age nine or 10 was, you know, practicing tennis, living at tennis academies, training. And it was not one of those situations where my parents, you know, pushed it on me. If anything, they thought I was a little bit obsessed and they worried about my, you know, drive for at such a young age. But I really, when I look back at my entrepreneurial career, those early businesses, I think, were just new vehicles for me to compete and for me to build an identity like I did as a great

• 10:22Blake Mycoskie?

  tennis player as a young child.

• 10:24Tim Ferriss?

  What made you a good tennis player? We know you didn't go on to necessarily focus your entire life on tennis, but what was it that made you a good competitor? There are many different types of competitors.

• 10:38Blake Mycoskie?

  To be completely honest, I was not very talented, you know, naturally. I worked really, really hard. And I mean, I lived at this one academy with some of the top players in the world, the John Newcombe Tennis Academy when I was 15. And out of, you know, 50 top players from around the world that are worldly ranked and go on to become, you know, professionals, I won the hardest worker of the year award. And that was the only way that I could even compete with some of those players was just because I outworked them. And so I don't know if that's a nature versus nurture thing, because I think, you know, I have a two-year-old daughter now and she's so freaking driven. I mean, like, she goes to swim lessons and just swims across the pool and never looks up to see for applause or anything. Like,

• 11:23Blake Mycoskie?

  I see that eye of the tiger in her, and I definitely had that at a young age. I mean, from the day that my parents gave me my first tennis racket and I got a tennis lesson, I wouldn't come home till it was dark. And oftentimes, I would convince them to leave the lights on for me to hit against the backboard. And so I think that was in my nature, just incredibly self-disciplined and driven. And that's what allowed me to excel as far as I did as a tennis player. But you really need the natural talent, too, to go pro.

• 11:50Tim Ferriss?

  And you took the drive, the discipline, the work ethic, and applied it to businesses. And of course, I would imagine there are people listening who go, well, great, his two-year-old daughter has the superior software pre-installed. What am I going to emulate here? And the next question is really on the nurture side. So I think all of us come into this world with certain set of software, certain set of hardware. And sometimes the harder things to do are those that run against or are on the opposite end of the spectrum from our innate programming, right?

• 12:30Blake Mycoskie?

  Sure.

• 12:30Tim Ferriss?

  So for some people listening, if they are, say, less driven, perhaps they have to cultivate themselves to be driven. But if you are building and building and building, as you did for a very long time and still are, but let's flash forward to 2012. So I'm recording this right now from Austin, Texas. And I believe this is where you moved for a sabbatical in 2012.

• 12:56Blake Mycoskie?

  Yes.

• 12:56Tim Ferriss?

  Now, you, when I think of you, I mean, the reason I'm laughing is just like, I imagine you going kind of insane doing a sabbatical. That may be unfair, but you're so high RPM. I'd love to just hear you describe the decision for the sabbatical.

• 13:13Tim Ferriss?

  How it came to be and what was done during the sabbatical?

• 13:17Blake Mycoskie?

  Yeah, I mean, what was done is not pretty and it almost led to a divorce one year after getting married. But I'll get to that in a second. But what the decision that led to it was, you know, I I've been an entrepreneur since I was 19 years old. So by 2012, I had, you know, been doing it for 16, 17 years. Tom's was a very successful business, you know, driving hundreds of millions of dollars in sales and helping millions of children around the world. I had just gotten married and for the first time in my life, I just wanted to take a break. I mean, I just, I was, I just needed to have some time to kind of reflect on all these companies, this new relationship I was in, this

• 14:02Blake Mycoskie?

  new commitment I had made in getting married. And I always thought I would move back to Texas. That was a big part of it, too. You know, I grew up in Texas and, you know, I think anyone who grows up in Texas that leaves and especially maybe ends up living in LA or New York City or San Francisco, they love the excitement and the adrenaline and the uniqueness of those cities. But you can't really ever take Texas out of a Texan. And so I always thought, you know, once I got married, once I started thinking about family, Austin, Texas would be back where I need to be. And and that was a big driver in the sabbatical, too. So it was to take some time to reflect, to see how stable Tom's was on its own without my day to day, you know,

• 14:41Blake Mycoskie?

  running it. And to, you know, really kind of explore whether Texas is going to be the long term place for for me and Heather at that time. So that was the decision. Now, what happened was pretty much a disaster because I had to put my attention to something. And so I like to play golf and I like to drink beer. And so I pretty much spent all day drinking beer and playing golf, which does not make you exactly the most attractive husband when you have to take a taxi home at the end of the day because you can't drive.

• 15:15Tim Ferriss?

  Was there anything you took away from your experience with the sabbatical? I mean, it sounds like a decent. Pressure release valve, at least for a period of time. But was there value in the experience?

• 15:28Blake Mycoskie?

  Sure. I think the value was is really understanding, no matter how much you love a hobby or you need releases and you know, play in your life. The joy in those things is lost if you don't have balance and you don't have some type of meaningful work and responsibilities to balance it. So now I cut to now, I'm an avid mountain climber. I race cars, you know, and I love surfing, but I don't do that all day, every day, or I wouldn't enjoy those things. And because I have a father and I've got, you know, lots of investments and now a new company. And so having that balance is what allows you to really enjoy the leisure activities or the hobbies.

• 16:13Blake Mycoskie?

  And when your hobbies become your full-time job, in a sense, it quickly deteriorates the joy you're deriving from it. And I definitely experienced that. And that's where, you know, ultimately I decided I need to move back to California and get back involved in Toms after, after only eight months.

• 16:31Tim Ferriss?

  Part of the reason that we're having this conversation is that you've had many life transitions in the last few years. You've had many new experiences, transformative inputs of different types. And I've always viewed you as a seeker. And I'd like to talk about, or have you talk about, one that comes to mind that we've talked about when not recording, just over dinners and so on, but the Hoffman process.

• 17:00Blake Mycoskie?

  Sure.

• 17:00Tim Ferriss?

  Could you speak to the Hoffman process? What is it? Why did you participate in it?

• 17:07Blake Mycoskie?

  Yeah, the Hoffman process, I mean, there's probably three, three to four experiences or practices that I've taken on in my life that have by far had the greatest impact in a positive way. And I love to start with the Hoffman process because it is at the top of the list. The Hoffman process is an eight-day program that Bob Hoffman started 30-plus years ago. It came out of Esalen. And its main concept is focused around this thing called the negative love syndrome that we all experience from our parents or primary caregivers, regardless of if they're the greatest or the worst. So every single child has this experience.

• 17:52Blake Mycoskie?

  And basically, what it is, is when we're young, we are very astute to our primary caregivers' patterns and their behaviors. And we do one of two things with pretty much every single pattern and behavior of our parents, in my case. And that is, we either emulate the pattern or the behavior to receive their love, or we do the exact opposite to demand their attention. And so this is, as a child, how we survive. And Bob Hoffman and a lot of really, really smart people have studied this from a psychological perspective. And so what happens is, the way that our brains get wired and all the patterns that end up driving pretty much every decision in our life

• 18:37Blake Mycoskie?

  after the age of 12 are hardwired in there based on us wanting to either receive love or attention from our parents. Now, some of those patterns go on to help us in innumerable ways. I would say, you know, my drive and competitiveness has blessed me in many, many ways. But I like to be competitive or have drive now as a conscious choice versus a pattern that I can't turn on or off in any situation. Because sometimes, like, it's not healthy to be incredibly competitive. You know, in a romantic relationship, it's probably not that healthy. Definitely not with your five-year-old son. I mean, there's a lot of times in which I am glad that I can recognize

• 19:20Blake Mycoskie?

  and see that pattern happening, but then, you know, dampen it for the situation. But the Hoffman Process, what you do when you go there is it's a they take you through a series of exercises. It's very experiential and it's very unconventional, but it is more effective than anything I've ever seen. And through the week, what you do is you really recognize what patterns you have from both of your parents that you want to let go of that aren't serving you anymore. You also then see these vicious cycles that play out in your life. And so these are macro patterns. If you look through 20, 30 years, you can kind of see like, oh, I do this and it leads to this and ultimately it leads to this and that has really not served me.

• 20:02Blake Mycoskie?

  And so then they give you the tools to really rewire your brain in a way so that you're not a slave to these patterns and habits. And it's the most freeing experience ever. I mean, it is, I mean, one of my favorite things I love to talk about Hoffman is, and this is definitely not anything that they would ever promote as, as an expectation to have, but I went to Hoffman in 2016. And after Hoffman, I remember coming back to the Tom's office and our CEO at the time, he's like, man, you look lighter, like physically lighter. And I was like, I feel lighter. And then over the next couple of weeks, I literally lost 12 pounds in any body fat

• 20:47Blake Mycoskie?

  I had in my abdominal area where a lot of men carry body fat because of stress and anxiety. And I literally went from having, you know, I wasn't overweight, but to having like crazy abs and everyone was like, what did you do? And I'm like, I didn't do a single fucking crunch. I just went to Hoffman. And I mean, and literally I lost weight as I lost mental weight. And so, um, since then, I have, uh, started a scholarship fund. I've sent over 200 people that have needed the financial backing or resources to go. And I've also sent pretty much every single one of my friends and family. And it's the only thing in my life that it bats a thousand.

• 21:29Blake Mycoskie?

  There's not a single person that hasn't come back and said, that was the most important week of my life. And it helps you become a better parent. It helps you become a better spouse. It helps you become a better leader for sure. And I've gone back and done graduate work there and, um, I continue to support them financially so more people can go that can't afford it. But yeah, it is, I mean, I have goosebumps over my whole body just getting the opportunity to share how meaningful Hoffman was because I'm so grateful to it.

• 21:57Tim Ferriss?

  Bunch of different things I want to dig into here. Thank you for that explanation. The first is really a footnote related to the, the losing of abdominal fat. That, that doesn't actually surprise me in the, in the sense that if, if for whatever reason, you have dramatically lowered your cortisol levels, there's a cascade of different effects that one might observe. And certainly in men that, that be it sort of redistribution or change in how fat is deposited or retained, right? And cortisol is such an incredibly powerful hormone. You need it to live. You don't want to go without cortisol. But just as an example for folks who might have this experience, if you've ever been tired and

• 22:41Tim Ferriss?

  wired, where you're physically exhausted, you try to go to bed and then you're just racing a million miles a minute, what often happens is you have this release of cortisol, then a spike of glucose, and you feel like you're on the start line for running a marathon. It's very frustrating. So I actually sometimes take phosphatidylserine, this supplement, one or 200 milligrams before bed to help with that. That's to kind of blunt that cortisol response. But that's the footnote. Now that I said that, back to the Hoffman process. Are you open to sharing any of the patterns or cycles that ended up being very helpful to identify?

• 23:22Blake Mycoskie?

  Yeah. I mean, I'll share one and it's, it's embarrassing, but I think it's embarrassing because it's so, it's just, it was such a driver in my life. And I think some people will really connect to this. So my, and it's a good example of how your parents can do all the right things and you're still going to have these patterns. So my mom did not graduate from college, supported my dad through medical school, selling her blood, waiting tables, you know, had, as my dad became this very successful doctor, you know, she was serving as a housewife and didn't have the same sense of, I would say pride

• 24:02Blake Mycoskie?

  that my dad did in his vocation. And when she had me, I was not only the first child in our family, but I was the first grandchild in a very big Mykowsky family. And so my mom, all of a sudden, got, you know, kind of held up in incredible high regards by everyone by giving my grandparents, A, the first grandchild, and I was literally the apple of her eye. And I could do no wrong. I was just loved at every single second and minute. I mean, her whole world revolved around me. And so I grew up, even when I did have brothers and sisters, which she also gave the same love to them, there was

• 24:44Blake Mycoskie?

  always something special of me being the first, not just by my mom, but I would say the whole kind of aunts, uncles, grandparents, everyone. And so I grew up really experiencing high levels of attention at all moments in my life. And so the pattern that came from that was I needed to be the center of attention to feel comfortable. And now, this is not very attractive characteristic in a friendship and definitely romantic relationships, which we'll get to, because it all comes full circle, Tim. And so what I learned in Hoffman, and I'll give you a very specific example, because it's embarrassing, slightly

• 25:26Blake Mycoskie?

  disgusting now to me, but I have beat it. So it makes me very happy. And that is, it was so hardwired into my brain to be the center of attention and to be praised by people, that I would get on a ski lift. I love snowboarding. And I would get on a ski lift. And before we got to the top of the lift, I would subconsciously manipulate the conversation. So they would ask me what I did for a living. And then I would get to say, I'm the founder of Toms, in which unanimously, you get praise. You know, you built a business to help millions of children. Wow. Like, I mean, and so literally, I would like not

• 26:07Blake Mycoskie?

  be comfortable on that ski lift until that conversation happened. And then, once I got the praise and the attention, I could focus on anything that the other person was talking. But it was so hardwired into me. And now that I say that, it's just like, so embarrassing. But I never knew that until I went to Hoffman. And then once I went to Hoffman and I said to myself, okay, there's a healthy amount of needing attention and love to feel secure. But mine is totally out of whack based on this pattern. And here are the things that happen when this pattern starts to get triggered. And now I almost play games at like, parties or ski lifts, where I lead the conversation every which way possible. So people never

• 26:48Blake Mycoskie?

  find out that I'm the founder of Tom's. And it's beautiful. And it gives me this sense of like, deep spiritual connection to my spiritual self, as they would say in Hoffman. And so that's just one small example. But I think it gives you an idea of how some of these patterns can even come from really positive things your parents did, not just traumatic. Now, a lot of them come from trauma, too. So if you've had a traumatic experience, I think Hoffman is even more effective in helping you process some of that trauma. But yeah, that's an example that I think illustrates how hardwired these patterns are in you.

• 27:19Tim Ferriss?

  Many people listening will be-

• 27:20Blake Mycoskie?

  I'm so embarrassed.

• 27:23Tim Ferriss?

  Shame for shame. No, I'm kidding. It's, you know, the, what is it? A problem well stated is a problem half solved. I mean, you have to develop, I think that was John Dewey, if I'm getting the attribution right. But it starts with an awareness, right? And developing the perspectives that you can be aware of the stories and the narratives and the patterns that are governing your behavior, whether you're aware of them or not at the outset. So question for you about the Hoffman process. A lot of people listening will be very interested in doing something like the Hoffman process. Some very, very small percentage will probably end up going, but it's going to be a small percentage. Are there any books or resources

• 28:04Tim Ferriss?

  that help people to achieve some of the progress that one might at the Hoffman process, right? Are there books, like a few come to mind, like Awareness by Anthony DeMello for me?

• 28:17Blake Mycoskie?

  Man, I can't believe you said that book. Literally, I gave that book to someone very special a couple of days ago. It's one of my favorite books.

• 28:25Tim Ferriss?

  No kidding. I did not know that.

• 28:26Blake Mycoskie?

  I love Anthony DeMello. I mean, I've read everything. I mean, Rediscovering Life, I think is, should be like, every single human should read that. Because that is such a powerful experience. And I think it's, to answer your question, Rediscovering Life is another one, I would say, besides Awareness, specifically, or in this, in this genre.

• 28:46Tim Ferriss?

  Great. Are there any other resources you might recommend? I don't know if the Hoffman process does anything outside of the in-person events that are more widely available?

• 28:57Blake Mycoskie?

  You know, they don't, because the processes, and I think this is important to state, is like, I definitely think some of Anthony DeMello's books for sure, Rediscovering Life Awareness, I think that there is a book actually kind of written about the Hoffman process. It's not an official Hoffman book, but if you Google Hoffman process book, you'll find it. I forget what it's called. It kind of talks through it. But the reason Hoffman is so effective is that it is a totally immersive experience that you do without giving away some of the secrets, because it's really fun. Because no one, that's part of the, as a graduate, you never tell people what they're going to do. Because you need to have the surprise and the experiences unfold.

• 29:39Blake Mycoskie?

  But it's, you use your body, you use your mind, use your, I mean, you kind of, you have to do it. It's not just something you learn, it's something you actually physically experience through different, very unique practices that you do there, that release things and, and open up patterns that you're not even aware of, and memories that you don't even have consciously. So, you know, Hoffman has scholarships. I, from time to time, if you follow me on Instagram, I post scholarships, you know, at least a couple of times a year. But, you know, if this is something that is of interest to you, I think, you know, do anything you possibly can to get and do the process. Because it is something that is, and I've read every book in the world in this genre,

• 30:22Blake Mycoskie?

  and nothing compares to the actual experience.

• 30:25Tim Ferriss?

  So, having covered, at least for the time being, the Hoffman process, and I should say for people listening, that I wanted to have this conversation with you for a few different reasons. One of them is that you've experienced these transitions, like I mentioned, and that whether people identify with you or not, right? Because you're talking about racing cars, you've built a company that had hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. And I think that there's the possibility that someone listening says, well, I have very little in common with Blake. So I wonder, or even doubt if these tools will apply to me. And I anticipate that. And the reason that I still think this conversation is of value is that whether you're going through a midlife crisis, an end of life crisis, a quarter life

• 31:10Tim Ferriss?

  crisis, where you're graduating and you don't know what you want to be when you grow up, or going through a divorce, or contemplating getting married, having kids, having kids leave the house. During these transition periods, a lot of material comes up.

• 31:26Blake Mycoskie?

  Yeah.

• 31:26Tim Ferriss?

  And the material is going to be unique to each and every person. But the tools, a lot of the tools, I think, are quite flexible. So that's just really more of a commentary that I wanted to mention. But before we keep going, in the case of the Hoffman process, you mentioned you were going through a difficult stage. Are you open to saying more?

• 31:47Blake Mycoskie?

  Sure.

• 31:47Tim Ferriss?

  About what that was?

• 31:48Blake Mycoskie?

  Yeah, I mean, I think selling half of the company, selling half of TOMS, and stepping down and hiring a CEO, and became a father for the first time, this is all five years ago, was incredibly challenging, because all of those things were the things that I had been told by my parents and society and culture would make me happy, you know? I now have full financial freedom. I have time freedom because I have a CEO running the company. So I can do other things, focus on being a dad, hobbies. I'm married. I have a child. I have great friends. So I took the discipline that we started this conversation

• 32:30Blake Mycoskie?

  talking about, and applied it to everything that I thought would bring me joy, peace, and fulfillment. And all of those things were externally focused. And so, once I realized that I had accomplished everything I set out to do,

• 32:48Blake Mycoskie?

  And I was still waking up feeling very challenged, very not motivated, not feeling I had a purpose, low energy levels, having trouble sleeping, which ultimately, you know, led to being diagnosed for the first time in my life with mild depression. I realized the most important thing, or I had a, I want to say realized then, I've realized it now, but I had a inclination that the external would never be the thing that would allow me to feel what I had been seeking. And so that began, and it started with Hoffman, and it also led to, you know, plant medicine journeys, and it led to my two years of research with different scientists that led to the

• 33:33Blake Mycoskie?

  Made For program. But all that came from looking inward, maybe for the first time in my life. And I'm incredibly grateful today because I've never felt that I've been living in a state of flourishing more than I am now, and it has nothing to do with any of the external things that most people know me for.

• 33:52Tim Ferriss?

  You mentioned, maybe 10, 15 minutes ago, three to four practices, you know, a handful of practices, one of which is the Hoffman process. What are some of the others that have stood out for you in terms of positive impact?

• 34:08Blake Mycoskie?

  So I would say, I would define these as experiences, and then the third experience led to some very specific, daily, simple practices. So let's start with the experiences. The experiences were Hoffman, plant medicine journeys, ayahuasca and psilocybin, to be specific, that I was able to do down in South America. And then the third was, and this is pretty much what I'm spending all my time, or most of my time on now, the third was spending time with some of the top scientists at the best universities in the country, seeing what has scientifically been proven that can affect your mental well-being on a day-to-day basis.

• 34:51Blake Mycoskie?

  So not huge, you know, experiences like Hoffman or plant medicine, but the small steps that you can do every single day. So practices and habits that can insulate you from the challenges of modern living. And Setting out and really almost approaching it like a student and being able to get access to this incredible body of science, specifically in the neuroscience with Andrew Huberman out of Stanford University, that has given me the day-to-day insulation from all the challenges, and especially recently during COVID-19. So those are the three things, really Hoffman, plant medicine, and the practices that ultimately led to the Made For program that I practice every day.

• 35:39Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Element, spelled L-M-N-T. Element is a delicious, sugar-free electrolyte drink mix. I've stocked up on boxes and boxes of this, usually use one to two per day. My favorite flavor is citrus salt, also makes an amazing margarita, but you can also take it before long hikes and things like that, which is what I'm doing right now in the summer. Element is formulated to help anyone with electrolyte needs. It's perfectly suited also to those who are fasting, say intermittent fasting, longer stuff, or following a keto, low-carb, or paleo diet, when supplemental electrolytes can relieve hunger, cramps, headaches, tiredness, and dizziness. Who needs any of that? So you can try it totally risk-free. If you don't like it, Element will give you your money back,

• 36:22Tim Ferriss?

  no questions asked. Rob Wolf is behind this. It's high-end, high-grade, effective stuff. Element has a very special offer for you guys. They've created a Tim's Club. I don't get any kickback or anything. It's just called Tim's Club. Simply go to drinklmnt.com, that's drink L-M-N-T dot com forward slash Tim, and use promo code TIMSCLUB to get the 30-count box of Element for just $36. This will be valid for the lifetime of the subscription, and you can pause it or cancel it anytime. Again, that's drinklmnt.com/tim for this exclusive offer using promo code TIMSCLUB. One more time, drink L-M-N-T dot com forward slash Tim, promo code TIMSCLUB.

• 37:05Tim Ferriss?

  So we're gonna spend a good amount of time on the day-to-day insulation, right? The practices, because it's very easy, as you and I both know, because we have spent time around people who practice what one might call spiritual bypass. They use some substance to vaporize themselves into stardust. And then the insight falls like grains of sand through the fingers in their psyche. And two weeks later, they are behaving the same way with the same subconscious drivers remaining subconscious, right?

• 37:45Tim Ferriss?

  There's these compounds and these peak experiences, Hoffman or otherwise, I would imagine, although I don't want to speak for Hoffman, but I would imagine there are people who, they don't make the translation from the experience to practice. And nonetheless, I would be very interested to hear what you feel you gained from your plant medicine experiences.

• 38:09Blake Mycoskie?

  Sure.

• 38:10Tim Ferriss?

  Because you, as I mentioned in the introduction, and I'd like to extend my thanks yet again for being a very substantial supporter of the scientific research related to psychedelics. And psilocybin, most notably. So that's, I think, an incredible way to bend the arc of history as it relates to treating psychiatric disorders that have largely been untreatable. So thank you for that.

• 38:37Blake Mycoskie?

  Of course.

• 38:38Tim Ferriss?

  On a personal, on a personal level, what were your experiences?

• 38:41Blake Mycoskie?

  Yeah, so I think the first experience was with ayahuasca down in South America.

• 38:48Tim Ferriss?

  Starting with the big guns.

• 38:49Blake Mycoskie?

  I mean, that's just kind of the way.

• 38:52Tim Ferriss?

  Skip the foreplay.

• 38:53Blake Mycoskie?

  That's the kind of the way I work. I would not recommend that, by the way. So if you're listening to this and you're, is this something you're interested in? I would definitely start with something like a guided psilocybin journey with a, you know, medium to small dose. But I went with the big guns, and I think it was, it shows the desperation that I was feeling at that time. You know, I really just revealed the...

• 39:22Blake Mycoskie?

  The expansiveness of my consciousness of time, of the inner connection of nature and all beings. And in a way that the takeaway was, and this is really goes back to some of maybe the childhood wounds that I still carry, that also are part of the reason I was so driven, was just a feeling, I remember coming out of it and just almost like angels around me just saying, "You are all right. You are enough. You don't need to prove anything to anyone ever again. Just enjoy your human experience." Like it was just this like, it was just like this deep, it wasn't the praise that I had

• 40:06Blake Mycoskie?

  always sought. It was a deep love and acknowledgement that there's nothing more I can do or nothing I can't do to not feel God's love. And I had heard about that in the Christian faith. I'd heard about that in other spiritual teachings, but to feel that in a way that was so powerful and just mind expanding was really one of the things I'm most grateful for in my life because I literally came out, came back to the US and came back to my regular life. And I really believe I have integrated that into my, you know, personal outlook and self-compassion and all these other more practices that we'll get into. But it started

• 40:50Blake Mycoskie?

  with that just a total awakening that happened through Aya around just how much more is at play. And because it's so enormous and it's so, we're such as, we're a small part of such something so beautiful and perfectly designed, that it gave me this peace that I am just perfect the way I am. And I remember hearing that in Sunday School as a kid and never having it ever really resonate. And it totally transformed the way I looked at myself after that experience.

• 41:23Tim Ferriss?

  I appreciate you sharing that description and it's just never ceases to make me crack a smile when anyone, including yours truly, tries to put one of these experiences into words.

• 41:35Blake Mycoskie?

  Thanks for making me do that.

• 41:37Tim Ferriss?

  You're welcome. And it's, it is certainly an unusual, yet completely familiar feeling to have some of these experiences, which is an odd combination perhaps, but there's a lot of paradox that makes complete sense when you are having these experiences. To perhaps provide a contrast, just because what you described sounds incredibly euphoric. Have you had any difficult

• 42:07Tim Ferriss?

  plant medicine experiences?

• 42:08Blake Mycoskie?

  Yes. So the second ayahuasca, I now talk about ayah like a knee surgery. So if you ever feel compelled to do it, if you ever do feel compelled, and I do not think it's for everyone, I want to be very clear, and I do think it is, you know, something you might want to work up to. And I think, and I, for instance, I have several friends that have wanted to get the information about where I did my ayahuasca experience, and I have almost demanded that they go to Hoffman before they do ayahuasca, because I feel that a lot of other work can help prepare you so that your experience can be more positive. But the reason I say

• 42:50Blake Mycoskie?

  it's like a knee surgery is I had that incredible blissful, mind-expanding, heart-opening experience. And for some reason, two years later, curiosity got the best of me. I decided to do it again. And I took a, you know, a pretty big dose, went back down south, and I had a horrifying experience that I have still spent, you know, several years trying to really understand the meaning and the integration. And you and I have talked about this before. It was not only incredibly frightening because I had this experience that the entire reality that we know is not real, and that it was all just a dream that I'm having. And I even created God to make the dream more interesting.

• 43:35Blake Mycoskie?

  And so then what was I? And I just went to this rabbit hole of like, as if life was a video game that I'd played a billion times. And every time I played, I add one little thing, like I wear a blue shirt instead of a white shirt, because I don't know, I gotta do something different. I mean, it literally just, and so everything felt meaningless. So that was horrifying because I have so much meaning in my regular life. And so now I had this experience that where the whole thing felt like a meaningless video game. The funniest part about that is, so Tim, is in that ayahuasca experience, I had this like moment where I was like shark attacks. Damn, that's a bug in my video game. I need to, next time I need to go back and have sharks stop attacking people because they were never meant to bite people. And that is a bug in the

• 44:20Blake Mycoskie?

  game that I created. And I like obsessed over that flaw in this perfectly designed human experience video game.

• 44:32Tim Ferriss?

  If I could add one thing to that, too, and we can certainly cut this if it's talking at a school, but one of the aspects of that that I recall being very disconcerting to you is that that feeling of being in a simulation didn't end when you left South America. There were nights when you would wake up and turn to your partner and say, is this real? Am I real? And you were unsure, right? There was a, this was a real question.

• 45:07Blake Mycoskie?

  That was, that was, that was the part I was going to get to that was the most scary. So the experience itself was what I would call unsettling, unpleasant, caused me to have a state of, you know, I think of, you know, just confusion. And then for the week after I got home, I had several nights where I woke up and I felt like I was back in the medicine. And that's the thing that was so scary. And I remember calling you and asking for advice at the time and anyone else I know who had, you know, experienced these things. And that was The thing that was so scary and that's why I call it a knee surgery is like I had a beautiful knee surgery, my knee worked fine and I don't know why I decided to try

• 45:49Blake Mycoskie?

  to have another knee surgery. So, so for the time being, and thus I'm desperately called back to ayahuasca, I, I do feel that I can gain something from the plants. It's, it's with psilocybin.

• 46:04Tim Ferriss?

  And I don't know if you remember when we spoke, I remember this conversation. I remember exactly where I was when we had this conversation. Do you remember the nickname that I had for your experience? Because the scary night school and one of the most horrifying thought spirals you can have is that what you're experiencing is unique to you, right? That there, there's some unique form of madness that you have descended into. And so you describe this where you go to sleep and then you feel like you've gone right back into the experience, what some people might call flashbacks, let's just say. And that, as I mentioned, and the nickname is actually from a friend of mine named Michael, Michael

• 46:44Tim Ferriss?

  C. I'll give him credit. He calls it night school because it is relatively common with ayahuasca and particularly with five methoxy DMT or five MEODMT. And that can persist, as I mentioned, in some people for a few days, in some people for 10 days, at least anecdotally among the sample size that I've had contact with. And that can be horrifying, particularly if that expectation or possibility has not been laid out ahead of time.

• 47:14Blake Mycoskie?

  Yes.

• 47:14Tim Ferriss?

  Right? And which is why I, you know, it's funny you say knee surgery because I actually, we arrived at the same metaphor completely separately. When I talk to people about these types of compounds or plants, I describe the process as knee surgery, not just because you're having knee surgery, but because if you don't do your rehab afterwards, you could end up worse off than you were before.

• 47:36Blake Mycoskie?

  A hundred percent.

• 47:37Tim Ferriss?

  There's a period of plasticity, a window of malleability within which you can change things and shape things. But whether it's shaped for the better or not, depends a lot on your, on your behaviors and so on. So just a real quick note on this because you and I've had many conversations about this and a lot of people listening. I think we'll have a lot of enthusiasm around this subject. And I want to just say a couple of quick things as a sort of public service announcement. The first is that psychedelics and use of psychedelics, in my opinion, should not be an arms race. It's not like you need to escalate from bunny slope to intermediate to black diamond to double black to hellish skiing to free fall.

• 48:22Tim Ferriss?

  You don't need to use all these compounds. And if you look at indigenous cultures that have used these plants, very often they have their lane. In other words, the mushrooms used by the Mazatex in Central America are not the same as used as the, say, ayahuasca used by certain tribes in Peru. Also, the ayahuasca in certain tribes of Peru may not be the exact same ayahuasca used by other tribes in, say, Colombia or different locations. So there's a tremendous amount of variance and none of these people use the entire catalog of psychedelics found globally. That's a very Western. Yes.

• 49:05Tim Ferriss?

  Experience and perspective, and I think there are incredible risks associated with it. The second thing I'll say is for people who might be interested, and you mentioned insisting on Hoffman process first, I think that it is a very good idea to develop a basic fluency with some of the easier tools before you go for these peak experiences, which can be incredibly life-affirming and transformational, and they can also be incredibly destructive. There's just a survivorship bias, so you don't hear about these stories very much. But I know of not just one, not just two, but at least six to 12 people firsthand who

• 49:45Tim Ferriss?

  have been knocked sideways and destabilized for weeks or months after use of ayahuasca and 5-MO DMT specifically. So what I would say is the progression, since you mentioned Hoffman, I'll just kind of mention what I usually advise to people who are going to take it seriously, is that you use something like the Waking Up Meditation app for 30 days, no substances, this is completely sober. You read Awareness by Anthony DeMello. You watch the six-part series, The Power of Myth, which is Bill Moyers interviewing Joseph Campbell, you schedule at least two sessions of holotropic breathwork.

• 50:26Tim Ferriss?

  Again, completely sober, but you are able to experience in a non-ordinary state of consciousness that is produced through breathing techniques. Then, and again, this is where we get into riskier legal territory. So I'm going to say I'm not advising breaking any laws, but MDMA assisted psychotherapy would be the next step after that. Then guided psilocybin. And you can stop at that point. You can actually stop at any of those points previously. You don't have to continue to proceed, but I would not use ayahuasca until you have done all of those things.

• 51:04Blake Mycoskie?

  Amen. I'm so, I mean, for no other reason, I know, hopefully people will gain a lot from this conversation, and I know that's our intention, but for no other reason, I'm glad that you laid that out because I don't think that type of prescription is shared enough in our society right now.

• 51:21Tim Ferriss?

  Thank you, Blake. And I, it's really nice to have a companion on the path, by the way, with the support of the science, which I do deeply, deeply believe in.

• 51:33Tim Ferriss?

  Let's, let's talk about, if you've got time, I've got time. I know we don't have a hard stop, which is a rare luxury, Ed, but there are a few things I want to make sure that we talk about. I want to get into the day-to-day installation, that third bucket, so to speak, that you mentioned. First, I'd like to ask about conscious uncoupling, because I really think this will be of tremendous service to a lot of people listening, including those people who are not in a state of crisis. But could you provide some context for what that means and how it came to be?

• 52:11Tim Ferriss?

  Something you're familiar with.

• 52:12Blake Mycoskie?

  Yes, absolutely. And I mean, it's one of the reasons why I was excited to have this conversation with you because I went through a very, very powerful experience with my now ex-wife Heather over the last seven months with this concept of conscious uncoupling. So Heather and I were married for seven years and over those seven years, almost after the first year, we had challenges and we worked at it and with the same discipline and drive that we've talked about, we did lots of therapy. We worked with some of, you know, I'm not going to name names with some of the therapists that everyone has watched their TED Talks. We, you know, did pretty much every kind of therapeutic intervention we could to try to find

• 52:57Blake Mycoskie?

  what was holding us back from the type of love and relationship that we both dreamed of having. And we, I think having two kids definitely was something that kept us working hard at it because we both wanted to make sure that we were providing the best environment for them. But over the last year to two years, we recognized that we were starting to fight more. We were starting to, you know, the energy level was not good in the home. And the kids were starting, especially our five-year-old, to pick up on it and asking us like, why are we fighting? And what's wrong with mom or what's wrong with dad? Or, and we also just started kind of living separate lives and, you know, we're young. I mean, I'm 43 and Heather's 38 and, and we said, there's more to this.

• 53:41Blake Mycoskie?

  And, and, and we, and we also never really lost our friendship in all this. And so that's a long way of saying, we decided back in September of last year that we would be better off not being married anymore. And I read Catherine Woodward's book, Conscious Uncoupling, while we made this decision. And I gave it to Heather and she read it and we were blown away by the concepts of it. I mean, if you think about it, over 50% of people who get married are going to ultimately get divorced. Yet we have very few tools in our society and very few role models to show us a way of doing it where you can. Actually create a new relationship, a new agreement that's more powerful

• 54:26Blake Mycoskie?

  and more beautiful than the one that you entered in when you said, I do. And specifically for your kids and your mutual friends that are often the collateral damage when people get divorced. And so we had the benefit of working with some coaches. So not only is the book really valuable, but on the website, they have a resource of different coaches for all different budgets to help you through the process if you, if you so choose, I highly recommend that. And what the process did is it helped us really see a little bit in the sphere of Hoffman and patterns. Like who were we when we got married and why did we really choose to get married? And what expectations were not fulfilled and what disappointments do we have?

• 55:08Blake Mycoskie?

  And, and really, at the end of the day, you realize kind of like so much of this. It was not about blaming the other person. It was about owning what my role was in those unmet expectations or loss of sexual polarity, or all of the things that ultimately lead to a couple wanting to split. And by us doing that work individually for several months first, and then together as a couple, we were able to create a beautiful new future for us. And the interesting thing, and then I think the reason why this is very time relevant, is we literally got through the whole program. Divorce became final, signed all the paperwork. Heather was going to get a wonderful home, just 15 minutes down the road from me.

• 55:52Blake Mycoskie?

  And the kids were going to go back and forth and we were ready to start a beautiful new chapter this spring. And then COVID-19 happens. And we then found ourselves quarantined once again as a family with now my ex-wife for two months after we had, you know, really been kind of looking forward to this new chapter. But I am so grateful that happened because it allowed us to test everything that we learned and everything that we committed in a very tight living situation with kids home all day long with no other external forces. And what we found was our friendship got solidified better than ever. And the support that we have for each other is absolutely beautiful.

• 56:35Blake Mycoskie?

  Our kids can feel it. They're thriving. They see the love. And now that Heather has moved into her other house and the kids are going back and forth, there's been no trauma issues with the kids. And so it has been a beautiful, beautiful experience. And I think Heather and I are both so much more well prepared for whatever relationships we enter into the future because we have awareness now that we didn't have when we kind of just stumbled upon into our first relationship, you know, nine years ago. So the book is incredible. The coaches are amazing. I can't stress enough that there is a beautiful alternative to staying in an unhappy marriage or an unhappy boyfriend girlfriend. I mean, it doesn't have

• 57:17Blake Mycoskie?

  to be a marriage. It could be any type of relationship. And I just am so deeply grateful for the experience we had the last seven months.

• 57:24Tim Ferriss?

  Could you speak to or just describe some of the things that you are now aware of? Or give even one example?

• 57:33Blake Mycoskie?

  Yeah, I mean, for sure.

• 57:35Tim Ferriss?

  Illustrate?

• 57:35Blake Mycoskie?

  Well, I think that, you know, one of the things that I recognized was my parents actually last week celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. I mean, it's like the most amazing accomplishment and they still are totally in love with each other. I actually did a two hour recorded interview with them on the day of their anniversary that I wanted to save to have my kids watch before they get married, if they choose to get married.

• 58:03Tim Ferriss?

  That's amazing.

• 58:04Blake Mycoskie?

  And one of the greatest things that my dad said, I'll never forget it is because he knows how much we struggled, Heather and I, and my parents love Heather and they and they saw how hard we tried. And, and so my dad said in the interview, he says, you know, Blake, I've often in over the years, not just with you, but so many of my friends that have struggled with their marriages, I've kind of felt guilty because my marriage to your mom has been so easy.

• 58:31Blake Mycoskie?

  Like he's like, it just, it just works. And I feel like, you know, we just compliment each other in a way that is mutually supportive, mutually self sacrificing. It never feels, and not never, but it hardly has ever felt like work. And in this interview, and I recognize this, and I think they got, you know, pretty lucky. I mean, and he would say so too. They were very young. And every once in a while, someone gets lucky and they just get with the right person. But what I recognized in the conscious uncoupling was I was more interested in kind of a story or a perfect picture that I had put in my mind, largely because of my parents amazing relationship and my closeness to my brother and sister. I was more interested

• 59:16Blake Mycoskie?

  in that than really understanding who Heather was and what was the foundation of our love. So I was basically had a box and I wanted to put someone in it. And Heather, based on her experience, which I don't want to get fully into here, looked like and wanted to jump into my box. And that creates a lot of the, you know, all the chemicals releasing and the love feeling and all that. But because we didn't do enough kind of exploration of really the foundations of what will make a relationship work and how, you know, the polarity between masculine and feminine, you know, the, the shared, you know, kind of, you know, vision on how we're going to spend our time or our energy, political beliefs,

• 1:00:01Blake Mycoskie?

  and things that kind of really can get in the way if you don't really work through them, you know, and we just jumped into the, you know, the physical attraction and the fun and all that. And we got married. And I don't think either of us were prepared to, and I don't think either of us did enough kind of personal work with each other to really know what we were signing up for. And now through the book, I was able to see that I was asking Heather to Fulfill needs, kind of like to our earlier, our conversation of looking external when you really need to look internal. I was looking her to fulfill needs that I had from my childhood patterns that really weren't the role or the responsibility of a romantic partner and lover.

• 1:00:45Blake Mycoskie?

  And she was willing to serve those needs because I was fulfilling some security needs and other things that she had verse us really connecting at a romantic soul level. And so, yeah, so I mean, I'm rambling a little bit because I think it's everyone's story is a little different and I want to protect the privacy of the relationship that, you know, what we've been through. I would say the other thing I just think that the book does so well and the process is well is you just, you know, you don't even work with your partner for the first, you know, two to three months or the first two thirds of the book. It's all about you taking responsibility, you understanding you better and how you show up in a romantic relationship or don't. And that was just incredibly powerful.

• 1:01:28Tim Ferriss?

  That is a perfect segue in a sense to what I was going to ask, which is when does it make sense for someone to read this book? And also, what would your advice be to couples who, like a lot of couples, maybe have their struggles but aren't yet code red, right? Is there something they can do before they have to kind of yank on the emergency stop on the train and start doing triage?

• 1:01:53Blake Mycoskie?

  Sure. Well, I think two things. One is I think you can read the book even if you're not considering getting divorced, even if you're just like in a relationship and you have your challenges like everyone else. Now, obviously, I think you got to really, really disclaim to your partner that you're reading this book to grow your relationship, not to end it, or you need to read it on like a device if they're not going to see it.

• 1:02:17Tim Ferriss?

  I'm just imagining sitting on the couch, cover facing out, or, oh, don't worry about it. No, don't worry about it. No, no, it's just entertainment value.

• 1:02:26Blake Mycoskie?

  The cover definitely will make it, if it wasn't in code red, it will get to code red quickly if you don't disclaim that. But I will say, actually, if I can recommend another book that I've also read years ago and have gone back to reading again, and that's by an author named David Dida, and that's Way of the Superior Man. And that book, the title really doesn't give it justice because it's equally important for women to read this book, I believe, as men. But it really helps understand What the optimal polarity between masculine and feminine is, and how in some relationships, the woman has the masculine energy and the male has the feminine energy, or in a homosexual relationship, that's definitely the case.

• 1:03:08Blake Mycoskie?

  But regardless of what your actual gender is, if a relationship is going to sustain the energy that allows you to deal with all the day-to-day challenges in a relationship, you must serve this polarity above all else. And Heather and I definitely did not do that. And so I think for anyone in a relationship that might be having some challenges, maybe doesn't feel the same way as it did when you're dating or your early years, I even think before Conscious Uncoupling, Way the Superior Man, it'd be highly recommended as well.

• 1:03:46Tim Ferriss?

  And it's a short read. It's a very fast read, short book. And last name is D E I D A. I haven't read it in a very long time, but I did read it, I want to say around 2009 and found it very helpful. And that notion of polarity definitely stuck as a kind of marker or litmus test that's important to be kept in mind and also something that's important to cultivate. Right? Which is, I suppose, the directive of the book in large part. I think it's time to get to the tactics, day-to-day installation.

• 1:04:28Tim Ferriss?

  And you gotta first tell me why on earth start another company?

• 1:04:34Blake Mycoskie?

  The thing that's fun about it is, I would say, and I spoke about this to several people now, is what has been so liberating and so, and I wish to use the word joyful. I may have goosebumps as I'm talking about this and almost starting to shed a tear as I answer this question because I really feel Kind of like the message I got in ayahuasca, I have nothing to prove to anyone. I don't need to make any more money. I don't need to be have my face on the cover of any more magazines. And I say this with humility, not with pride. Because that feeling of not having to prove anything or not having any expectations has allowed me to create something, maybe even for the very first time,

• 1:05:17Blake Mycoskie?

  with such a pureness of serving humanity that it just lights me up. So I don't even feel, there's this great Chateau Briean quote that I love. And it starts with, "The master of living does not distinguish between his work and his leisure." And he goes on and on. And then at the end, it says, "But to him, he lets others cast their judgments on what he is doing, but to himself, he's always doing both at the same time." Something like that. You should get the quote and post it because it's so good. But this is the moment in my life where I feel like I'm truly doing it all at the same time.

• 1:05:57Blake Mycoskie?

  Because I basically took my own suffering, as we spoke about. It led me on a pilgrimage to feel better. I was able to use my relationships and resources to get access to top neuroscientists at Stanford and other scientists from top universities and ask them, the people who are living, I mean, not like extraordinary athletes or these amazing specimens, but just everyday people. People who have a normal nine to five job, who have a family or no family, like people who are just living, but doing everything normal, but still have

• 1:06:39Blake Mycoskie?

  an incredible sense of well-being and fulfillment and flourishing. What are they doing that science has actually proven? And that was the big difference is these peak experiences that we talked about, plant medicine and also Hoffman. Neuroscience says that there's really two ways to experience neuroplasticity. It's to have these short, intense experiences like we spoke about. Or to find these small steps that can be done with intention over time. And both ways can allow your brain to change and your brain changing can affect your well being. So I went to the scientific community and said, what are these small things that I can do every day that other people have already been doing and have proven?

• 1:07:22Blake Mycoskie?

  And what I found was about 10 things. And I have a great business partner in this venture. His name is Pat Dossett. He was a Navy SEAL for nine years. He is absolutely obsessed with, you know, not just human performance, but just human well being. He also has recognized like me that we are in a time and culture where we have some of the highest rates of people on antidepressants of all time. We have the highest rates of people taking sleep aids, highest reports of anxiety. And so he is a man of service. And when we connected, he said, this is how I think we can serve people, not just so you personally can feel better, but that we can share this.

• 1:08:02Blake Mycoskie?

  And so over a year long journey and many, many amazing meetings and reviews of science, we were able to find 10 basic fundamental habits and practices that can transform anyone's life and definitely have transformed mine and my ability to cope with any form of of stress or challenges thrown at me. And that ultimately became what we launched on March 4th, and that's called Made For.

• 1:08:29Tim Ferriss?

  And what form does the service or product take? What does it look like?

• 1:08:35Blake Mycoskie?

  So that's, that's one of the interesting things. There are two macro philosophies of the program that science really showed us. And that was number one is it's very hard for people to make sustaining change in their habits or lifestyle if they're trying to learn more than one thing at a time. And it takes about 30 days to really engrain a new habit or practice. So one aspect of the program is, is that we only will teach you and help you learn and integrate one thing at a time for 30 days. So the program is 10 months long where you focus on one thing each month. And the second thing, and this is what really distinguishes it from many, many different,

• 1:09:15Blake Mycoskie?

  you know, offerings in the market right now, is we found that it needed to be completely analog. There could be no app, there could be no digital device, there could be no gadget that tells you how you're doing. You had to be able to feel it internally for it to take root and to be the most effective from a neuroplasticity standpoint. And so the program is actually mailed to you each month in a kit. And so the kit has three components in it. The first thing it has is all the science curated into a very simple 20-minute read. It's a little book that has been written in very easy to understand terms that gives

• 1:09:57Blake Mycoskie?

  you basically an understanding of what you're going to learn and why it's so critical to your well-being. The second thing is a tool that we designed that's unique to the Made For program, and this tool is something you're going to interact and use for 30 days as you learn this new habit or practice. And then the third thing is a challenge card and a little bracelet that you wear that reminds you of your commitment that month. So some visual cues and the challenge card is a way to kind of get the dopamine hit every day as you complete whatever you're doing that day during the month. And that's what comes in the kit. And so it comes once a month, and then when you complete that one, you go to the next one. But I want to pause for one second to say, because I think

• 1:10:40Blake Mycoskie?

  10 months and 10 new things can feel overwhelming to people, the goal of Made For is not to teach you 10 new habits. Now, you might really integrate all 10 into your life, but most of our members who've gone through already, we had 1,300 people go through the beta over a year period, you know, there's three or four things that really, really stick. And those three or four things have a huge effect on their well-being and mental health and physical health. And so what we're really trying to do is help you shift your mindset more than anything. And your behavior verse learn 10 new things, but we have to teach you these and have you have these 10 experiences over this prolonged period of time for that to take place.

• 1:11:23Tim Ferriss?

  What are, I love the fact that it's analog only, just as a side note.

• 1:11:29Blake Mycoskie?

  I knew that would resonate well with you.

• 1:11:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, while I still do so much by hand, like an old timer, but what are some of the habits and practices? Can you give any examples?

• 1:11:40Blake Mycoskie?

  Yeah. So the thing that was the most surprising and I think encouraging, at least from the learning experience was these are things that we all know already, or most of them. So one of the examples, the most simple and foundational one is the importance of hydration. And so what we found is there is a large percentage of Americans that are chronically dehydrated, even though they say they drink water. But the science shows that every person's need for water throughout the day is very different based on the climate you live in, the diet, your activity levels, et cetera. But our body is made of 70% water.

• 1:12:22Blake Mycoskie?

  And even a 1% change in your optimal hydration can affect your mood, your energy levels. I mean, a lot of people have to have that caffeine shot midday. I found that once I got my hydration practice dialed in, that's not as necessary anymore. And so hydration is one that's very simple. And so I'll just walk you through what the hydration month could look like, just to kind of give you an idea of what the other months, and I can share some of the other practices. But, you know, so we really teach you and we take all the kind of bullshit and myths of eight ounces or eight glasses of water, electrolytes, or all this stuff that has been created to sell you stuff. And we really look at the science of hydration and we distill that down to a 20 minute read and explain to you

• 1:13:07Blake Mycoskie?

  why it's so critical that this is something you need to really master if you're going to live your best life. The second thing is we've designed a beautiful water bottle that keeps track or helps you keep track of how much water you're drinking during the day. And it very specifically has these beads on it. They're almost kind of like a prayer bead that you move along this cord every time you finish a bottle. What the neuroscience shows us is that you get a dopamine hit every time you move a bead. So not only are you feeling better because you're better hydrated, but you're also getting that dopamine hit when you tactically move this on the bottle. And the bottle is as beautiful as something that would look you'd find in the MoMA.

• 1:13:48Blake Mycoskie?

  So it's something that you're proud to carry around and have some identity with. And then the third part of the hydration is the challenge of, you know, how many beads you're trying to get to and also a journaling exercise so you can reinforce the benefits of that you're feeling when you get properly hydrated. Now, the thing I love about this is everything in Made For has what I would call a micro and macro mindset intervention. So the micro part of this is, is that we hope after the end of the month, you will fully have a hydration practice and you will be the type of person that's drinking water throughout the day and you'll know approximately how much you need to be drinking to feel your best. But the macro thing that's happening inside of your brain when you're doing this is you

• 1:14:29Blake Mycoskie?

  are building a fortitude of understanding that I'm the type of person that can stick to something for 30 days. Because a lot of people maybe never have stuck to something for 30 days like this. And so by making it so simple as drinking water, then you're better prepared when the next month comes and maybe it's a little bit more challenging because you've just had the benefit and the satisfaction and the momentum created of sticking with something for 30 days. So that already is changing and priming your brain to take on other experiences.

• 1:15:02Tim Ferriss?

  I think that's very important, that you are building the meta capability of instilling and following habits. That strikes me as incredibly significant, that you're certainly taking on these different practices and these different tools, but in following one thing for 30 days and repeating that cycle 10 times, you are proving to yourself and also sharpening the saw of skill acquisition and habit formation.

• 1:15:33Blake Mycoskie?

  Absolutely.

• 1:15:34Tim Ferriss?

  And then after that, then you can choose what your next 30 days look like. And then the 30 days after that, and then 30 days after that. So that strikes me as very, very important. What are some other examples besides hydration?

• 1:15:46Blake Mycoskie?

  Yeah, so another one is, and I know you have studied this and you've already referenced it in the podcast is, you know, we went very, very deep on optimizing the perfect night's sleep. And, and how important sleep really is as a foundational practice. And so those are two that what I would say are more physical in nature. A mental one would be a gratitude practice. Now, we've all heard that gratitude is an important experience to be having, an emotion. And that, you know, having a gratitude journal can help you with your mental health. And, but we went much deeper than that. And we really looked at different areas of your life where you often are missing out an opportunity to express gratitude and then change the way

• 1:16:30Blake Mycoskie?

  that you approach challenging situations in the future. And also really looking at how gratitude can strengthen very important relationships in your life that we know have been scientifically proven to affect just, you know, how many times a year you get sick and your longevity. And gratitude, instead of doing the same thing every day for 30 days, like hydration, it's a series of different experiences you do every week that kind of get more and more difficult as the weeks go on. And so at the end of the month, you've done four very unique experiences around gratitude. Some by yourself and some involving other people.

• 1:17:12Blake Mycoskie?

  So that then you have a toolset of ways to experience gratitude for your wellbeing as you go forward. But it's not necessarily something you're committing to every single day for the rest of your life. And so that's an example of one that would affect more of the, of the mental capacity. And, and ultimately what we're trying to do as we work through these things, and they get more challenging as you go, is really address your physical health, your mental health, and what I would call either your spiritual, or if you're not spiritual, your purposeful health. You know, how do you? And that's where the name made for came from is ultimately, we're not just trying to

• 1:17:53Blake Mycoskie?

  help you understand from a science perspective, what you're made of in a, in a, in a very easy, fun way to engage, but also answer this question, what am I made for? And I think at some point in all of our lives, we ask that question. So we're creating a very systematic way for you to ultimately get to an answer to that.

• 1:18:14Tim Ferriss?

  I dig it. I dig it, man. I need to, I need to get that gratitude module ASAP. I need to correct my bad habits.

• 1:18:24Blake Mycoskie?

  Well, what's been interesting is, is you laugh about that, but like, um,

• 1:18:28Tim Ferriss?

  I'm serious.

• 1:18:28Blake Mycoskie?

  We launched, okay. Well, we launched this, you know, we launched, we did a year's worth of beta group. Um, and then we decide to launch on March 4th, you know, right before COVID-19. And we, you know, have had about a thousand people going through the program during quarantine. And it's been amazing to see how this has created such a resilience to the anxiety and the uncertainty and many of the things that we've been feeling. And that's why I was excited to come on the podcast now, because I think the two things that are going to be hopefully most beneficial to people as we try to get back to normal life. Number one is there's going to be a higher rate of divorce than ever in our country's history is what all the experts in that field are, are telling me because I have been doing

• 1:19:13Blake Mycoskie?

  some more research and looking to do some more philanthropy there to help people with the conscious uncoupling. And number two is, is people need, you know, have lost their jobs, they've lost their security, they've lost, uh, they have a tremendous amount of uncertainty coming out. And so to help people with these daily habits and practices that can really help them reintegrate, um, is I think very time sensitive.

• 1:19:35Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, I could not agree more. And I was 100% serious on the gratitude. The, the, you mentioned two things that have such, historically had such incredible ripple effects in my life, namely optimizing sleep and regular gratitude practice.

• 1:19:52Blake Mycoskie?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:52Tim Ferriss?

  That nonetheless.

• 1:19:55Tim Ferriss?

  For whatever reason, I am prone to neglecting. It's really embarrassing to admit. And a 30 day reboot sounds like, for me at least, exactly what the doctor ordered. And I agree that it's time sensitive and it will always be time sensitive in some respects. And people can find more at get made for.com. Is that the right?

• 1:20:17Blake Mycoskie?

  Yep, that's it. That's correct. Yes.

• 1:20:19Tim Ferriss?

  Roger that. So people can find more information at get made for.com. Obviously, I'll put that in the show notes as well. I think this is a good place to begin to wrap up. And is there anything else that you would like to say before we begin to come to a close here?

• 1:20:34Blake Mycoskie?

  No, I just, you know, like I said at the beginning, I just am appreciative to you for our friendship and our ability to connect on so many things, but for having me back on, because I'm realizing, as I realized the first time, that like, being able to talk in this long form and reflect on some of the things that have had the biggest impact on my life and the many changes I've had, it is kind of a therapy session. So I've been really blessed. I feel really complete. And, and I feel that, you know, I don't know if I'll ever reach a state of feeling fully awakened or enlightened as we read about it in the many, many spiritual books that exist and accounts that some people have had in that.

• 1:21:19Blake Mycoskie?

  But, you know, I do feel that like there is a moment, and I think I'm having one right now, where I've really done the work. And by doing the work and sharing the work with others and helping other people do the work, I'm seeing that it can work and you can live in a state of real flourishing. And that's my hope is that this conversation has inspired someone in the many, you know, myriad of topics that we covered to dig a little bit deeper into some personal work and the inner adventure that they possibly are ready to go on. So, thank you.

• 1:21:54Tim Ferriss?

  Thank you, Blake. And you know, I mentioned gratitude practice. Why not start now? If not now, when, Tim Ferriss? And I will just say that I also really value our friendship and savor it. I mean, that might sound strange. Value sounds almost too quantifiable. It's something that. I've found very nourishing over particularly the last handful of years where when we've had more contact and it's impressed me how you often very transparently view yourself as a work in progress as we all are. And I appreciate you also sharing your struggles because as I

• 1:22:36Tim Ferriss?

  heard someone say once, you know, everyone's fighting a battle you know nothing about and it's easy to feel alone. It's easy for people to feel alone, isolated, or in some way uniquely flawed. And in a sense, it's very heartening to have someone vulnerably share their stories and talk about conscious uncoupling and chapters and transitions that have no doubt at points been very, very hard. So I appreciate that about you and appreciate the friendship. And thanks for coming back for a round two. Yeah, we'll see you in another five or 10 years.

• 1:23:14Tim Ferriss?

  Well, the good news is I got bald early, so I've already crossed that Rubicon. So I will not be getting any more bald. And GetMadeFor.com is the website. People can find you on social, at Blake Mycoskie on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. And once again, I really appreciate you taking the time. Thanks, Tim. And to everybody listening, we'll put links to everything in the show notes at tim.blog/podcast. Just search Blake and it will pop right up. And until next time, continue to determine, what are you made for? Not just what are you made of? And go easy, go easy, yeah, it's easy.

• 1:24:00Tim Ferriss?

  Don't be too hard on yourself, especially during these COVID times. We're all a work in progress. Thanks for tuning in. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do.

• 1:24:40Tim Ferriss?

  It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by Readwise. Readwise is one of the cooler things I've found in the last year or two, sent to me by one of my best friends. It is an app that helps you remember significantly more of what you read. In fact, on average, their users report remembering 84% more of what they've read and highlighted.

• 1:25:25Tim Ferriss?

  And it can take a few different forms. You can sign up for the service. That's readwise.io/tim and get a daily email, which I do. So I've got in front of me one example of highlights from Food by Randomness, Sapiens, Priceless and a bunch of other books. And it has a bunch of advanced features on top of that. But we've all had the experience of reading a book or article, looking back a couple of weeks later to realize that you don't remember anything from it or next to nothing. Readwise solves this problem by integrating with Kindle, Pocket, iBooks, Instapaper and more to send you a daily digest of all your highlights. So it helps you to build a fun daily habit. I love getting these emails, which I can't believe I'm even saying because I hate email, but I love getting these.

• 1:26:06Tim Ferriss?

  So you get a daily email in simplest form and you can review and actually use the hundreds or perhaps even thousands of highlights that are just sitting in your reading devices collecting. Cyberdust and this simple habit of reviewing your highlights daily can dramatically improve how much information you retain through spaced repetition and actually use. And quite frankly, it's just fun. It's really fun to see what you've highlighted over the years and forgotten about. So it's really good. I mean, these are things that ostensibly you wanted to remember. Readwise also provides tools for organizing your books, articles and highlights. So tagging, searching, adding notes, creating flashcards, all that kind of stuff. You can even tell Readwise to automatically export your highlights to Evernote. This is a big deal for me. I've had to do this manually in the past, but Readwise makes it painless and super, super simple.

• 1:26:51Tim Ferriss?

  And it just takes seconds to sign up. I was astonished by this. I thought the importing from the Kindle would take a really long time. It takes no time at all. And believe it or not, you can also use Readwise with paper books. That is, if you have a paperback or something, you can automatically get the top popular highlights for your books simply by adding their titles. And you can also create your own highlights with the app's camera highlighting feature. This stuff is super cool. So there's no reason not to try this out. I think it's incredibly, incredibly useful and incredibly cool and very fun. Go to readwise.io/tim. It's readwise.io/tim for two month free trial offered exclusively to Tim Ferriss Show listeners. Again, that's readwise.io/tim for two month free trial.

• 1:27:36Tim Ferriss?

  Readwise.io/tim. Check it out. This episode is brought to you by Ascent Protein. I've been using Ascent as my primary protein powder for three years now. It's clean, efficient, super easy on the stomach. Ever since I wrote The Four Hour Body, starting my day with at least 30 grams of protein has been part of my routine. It's part of the slow carb diet. It's used to recompose your body to lose fat, et cetera. It's very effective. Ascent Protein is the easiest way to get this done. Sometimes you just don't feel like cooking a meal. I trust Ascent because they offer what most companies can't. Premium protein. They control the production from start to finish. They're vertically integrated. There are zero artificial ingredients, zero artificial sweeteners and zero added sugar.

• 1:28:21Tim Ferriss?

  And they really do their homework in R and D. This impressed me when I was having tons of email back and forth. To try to assess them. As one example, they tested 282 versions of the chocolate flavor, which is my favorite, before getting it just right. A few more things. All Ascent products are informed sports certified to be free of banned substances. One scoop contains 25 grams of protein and more muscle repairing BCAAs, those are branched chain amino acids, than an equivalent serving of chicken, beef, eggs, or salmon. They also are gluten free and soy free. So you add one scoop, or one and a half scoops, to a shaker bottle, that's what I do, let's say five to six ounces of water. And you can do that in the morning, as I do, you can do it post-workout, as I also do after kettlebell swings and so on.

• 1:29:05Tim Ferriss?

  Shake it up and you have a full serving of elite protein in less than 60 seconds. So, take a look, check it out. I have my entire pantry stocked with this stuff, with the chocolate specifically. Check out Ascent Protein, that's A-S-C-E-N-T protein.com/tim and use the code TIMASSENT for 20% off your purchase. Again, that's ascentprotein.com/tim and use code TIMASSENT for 20% off. The discount code will also work on amazon.com if you shop Ascent Protein. Again, it's TIMASSENT as a code for 20% off.