#307: Karlie Kloss - Entrepreneur and Supermodel

Karlie Kloss (IG: @karliekloss https://www.instagram.com/karliekloss) is an entrepreneur and supermodel who was discovered at a local charity fashion show at age 13 and has been modeling professionally ever since. Karlie has walked for and starred in campaigns for top designers including Calvin Klein, Oscar de la Renta, Dior, Louis Vuitton, Marc Jacobs, Versace, Adidas, Carolina Herrera, and Swarovski, among many others. Outside of modeling, Karlie's personal passion for coding led her to launch Kode With Klossy https://www.kodewithklossy.com, a nonprofit that empowers young women to code and become leaders in tech -- poised to expand in 2018 to 50 camps in 25 cities. Time Magazine has recognized Karlie for her entrepreneurship and philanthropic work on its 100 Most Influential People http://time.com/4298229/karlie-kloss-2016-time-100/ list, and she has also been featured on the covers of Fast Company and Forbes for her work with Kode with Klossy. Karlie hosts Freeform six-part series Movie Night with Karlie Kloss https://freeform.go.com/shows/movie-night-with-karlie-kloss and is a correspondent for Netflix's Bill Nye Saves the World https://www.netflix.com/title/80117748. If you're interested in learning more about Karlie's coding camps (applications and deadlines are coming soon), check out kodewithklossy.com/apply https://kodewithklossy.com/apply. Enjoy! This podcast is brought to you by 99Designs http://99designs.com/tim, the world's largest marketplace of graphic designers. I have used them for years to create some amazing designs. When your business needs a logo, website design, business card, or anything you can imagine, check out 99Designs. I used them to rapid prototype the cover http://99designs.com/tim for The Tao of Seneca, and I've also had them help with display advertising and illustrations. If you want a more personalized approach, I recommend their 1-on-1 service http://99designs.com/tim. 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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Tim Ferriss?

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a personal question?

• 0:08Speaker 02

  Now would be seen appropriate time.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 0:23Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by AG1, the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health. I do get asked a lot, what I would take if I could only take one supplement. And the true answer is invariably AG1. It simply covers a ton of bases. I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me on the road. So what is AG1? AG1 is a science driven formulation of vitamins, probiotics, and whole food sourced nutrients. In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system. So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your first

• 1:03Tim Ferriss?

  subscription purchase. So learn more, check it out, go to drinkag1.com/tim. That's drink AG1, the number one, drinkag1.com/tim. Last time, drinkag1.com/tim. Check it out.

• 1:24Tim Ferriss?

  Hello ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to tease out, distill, share the habits, routines, life lessons, belief systems, and so on of world-class performers from all different domains. This episode features entrepreneur and supermodel Karlie Kloss. That's two K's. You can find her on Instagram and elsewhere @karliekloss, K-A-R-L-I-E-K-L-O-S-S. Karlie was discovered at a local charity fashion show at age 13. And by this point, I think she's been on 45, 50 covers, something like that. Karlie's fashion career quickly took off, and she's walked for top designers, including Oscar De La Renta, Christian Dior,

• 2:07Tim Ferriss?

  Alexander McQueen, and Versace, among others. She's also starred in many major campaigns, including Adidas, or Adidas, depending on where you're listening to this, Donna Karan, Dolce & Gabbana, Dior, Calvin Klein, Carolina Herrera, if I'm getting that right. Showing my stripes here, and Swarovski, among many, many others. But I wanted to have Carly on this show, not just because of her modeling career, of course, which I think gets discounted, because thousands, tens of thousands of women, or girls, come into the world of modeling, and very few make it to the top, and very few last a long time, and very, very few still are able to translate it to other things.

• 2:49Tim Ferriss?

  Outside of modeling, Carly's passion for technology led her to take coding classes, learning to program. Inspired by coding's endless possibilities, she then launched Code with Klosy, K-O-D-E, Code with Klosy, a nonprofit that empowers young women to learn to code and become leaders in tech, which in 2018 will expand to 50 camps in 25 cities, and may go well beyond that. Time Magazine has recognized Carly for her entrepreneurship and philanthropic work on its Time 100 list, and she was also featured on the covers of Fast Company and Forbes for her work with Code with Klosy. Carly hosts free-form six-part series Movie Night with Carly Klos, and is a correspondent for the Netflix original series Bill Nye Saves the World.

• 3:34Tim Ferriss?

  And, this will come up again at the very end, but if you are interested in learning more about Carly's coding camps, and application deadlines are coming soon, check out codewithklosy.com/apply. That's code with klosy, all K's, codewithklosy.com/apply. And without further ado, please enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with Carly Klos. Carly, welcome to the show.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me, Tim.

• 4:05Tim Ferriss?

  I am so thrilled to have you here, and I just want to make a few observations/comments upfront. So the first is...

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Uh-oh, this could go anywhere.

• 4:13Tim Ferriss?

  I have a researcher who helps me with some prep documents, I certainly do my own prep, and his documents are usually very straightforward. He is affectionately called the Crazy Bulgarian, he's not crazy, I just thought that he should trademark that, he is from Bulgaria. And he put a note at the top of yours, he never adds notes, and the note is...

• 4:34Tim Ferriss?

  So, open parentheses, "Note," in all caps.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 4:37Tim Ferriss?

  "She sounds like the nicest person on the planet," end parentheses. So, that, that, that-

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Wow, that's quite the compliment.

• 4:44Tim Ferriss?

  So, that caught my attention.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 4:46Tim Ferriss?

  And I should also say that I have a face made for audio. And this is a new, relatively new experiment with video. And this is the highest beauty differential that I've ever had on my show.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no, come on.

• 5:01Tim Ferriss?

  And I'm okay with it.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Maybe height, but not beauty.

• 5:03Tim Ferriss?

  Height also. So, if you, if those of you who are listening through your ear holes want to see a shiny, bulbous head gnome on video, then you can find me. Side by side with Carly.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Next to a giraffe, which is me.

• 5:17Tim Ferriss?

  Next to a giraffe. So, I wanted to start with talking about modeling.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:22Tim Ferriss?

  And there are a lot of beautiful people on this planet. And there are many people who go into modeling. And there are very, very few who get to where you are. And it strikes me that there are some, it would seem, success cases of, in this case, women who have gone off to build incredible businesses, like Cathy Ireland and there are others. So, I wanted to start with asking you if you had, when you were getting started, or even now, any role models among-

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 5:55Tim Ferriss?

  -women who, or men, who have, have gone from modeling to do other things.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  I mean, you, you certainly mentioned one, Cathy Ireland. There's a long list, Cindy Crawford, Christie Turlington, Gisele. Many women who are in the industry and have used their platform or voice or, or experiences to build businesses or to make meaningful impact in the world, in whatever way they're passionate about. And like, for me, that is, that is success. And, and I, I don't know, yeah. I did not anticipate working in fashion or being a model, but I recognize somewhere along the line that there's so much more you can do with it. And the women who have come before me certainly have proved that.

• 6:42Tim Ferriss?

  It's, it seems like, from the outside looking in, that much like, say, entertainment-

• 6:50Tim Ferriss?

  The machinery of fashion, beauty and so on probably has a lot of casualties, meaning it just chews up and spits out a lot of people. There's really, it would seem to be-

• 7:00Speaker 02

  There's a lot of turnover.

• 7:01Tim Ferriss?

  A lot of turnover.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:03Tim Ferriss?

  What were some of the key decisions that you and/or your family or people like managers made that helped you to navigate, to avoid some of the most common pitfalls? Maybe you could just start with like-

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 7:17Tim Ferriss?

  What are some of the most common mistakes and pitfalls?

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Sure. I mean, honestly, Tim, I feel like I'm living my own version of a Cinderella story or an American dream. I mean, I have been able to travel the world and have been able to learn from the most extraordinary people. I'm sitting here with you talking. I mean, this is, I feel like I'm, I'm living a dream every day and, and, you know, I certainly did not anticipate going into fashion or being a model. I, I had a very different kind of career path in mind and I, I, I had this opportunity and I, and I took it.

• 7:52Tim Ferriss?

  What was the, what was the opportunity?

• 7:55Speaker 02

  So, I was-

• 7:57Tim Ferriss?

  Now, you grew up in the Midwest.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  I grew up in the Midwest and my father's a doctor. He's an emergency room physician, one of the most hardworking people you'll ever meet and so selfless. And I have three sisters and my mom's an artist and so I just like grew up this, in this amazing Midwestern picturesque kind of childhood. And at 13, I was stopped in a mall and asked if I would be interested in walking in a fashion show. At the time, not only did I not care about, it was, it just wasn't my life, fashion. I mean, I didn't even subscribe to magazines. I, I was focusing on school, I was focusing on ballet, academics and, and sports and,

• 8:38Speaker 02

  and so anyway, this idea of modeling was like totally not even in my, in my, in my mind. And so- I didn't enter this with the ambition of building a career in modeling. I was stopped in a mall at thirteen, walked in a local charity fashion show to raise money for a local family who's my friend's father. Her dad had cancer, so it was this charity benefit. And I was, there were scouts there from real agencies. And they took my name and said, let's stay in touch. I grew a couple inches. Fast forward to when I'm fifteen and

• 9:15Tim Ferriss?

  How tall are you at fifteen?

• 9:16Speaker 02

  At fifteen? Oh, my God, Tim. I was fifteen years old and five-eleven.

• 9:21Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  It's painful.

• 9:24Tim Ferriss?

  I'm still working on five, I'm still working on five-nine. I'm forty.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Look.

• 9:29Tim Ferriss?

  I'm gonna get there.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  I believe in you. I believe in you. And so, anyway, so I was fifteen years old and I got this opportunity to go to New York for the weekend and meet the designers of Calvin Klein. And they booked me. And I walked in their fashion show and it completely kind of put me on the map as a new up and coming model. And I, and it just was, it's been a wild ride ever since, ever since that, that day in the mall when I was stopped.

• 10:01Tim Ferriss?

  What are the, what are the traps? Like, what are the common pitfalls? I mean, the things that, having grown up on Long Island, and for instance, I mean, I grew up at the very end of Long Island where there are actually a lot of drug problems.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:14Tim Ferriss?

  And not saying that it's drugs, although I suspect that could be a piece of it. But like, where, where do people get off track or make mistakes?

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Sure. I mean, I think there's a lot of misconceptions and I think there's a lot of generalizations around, around the fashion industry, around the modeling industry. And, you know, I can only speak to my experience, but I've had just a really positive experience as a model. I've, like I said, it's been my key to the world. I've been able to travel the world. I have more frequent flyer miles than most CEOs. And I'm, you know, I've been able to see the world and, and learn so much, learn from so many brilliant people. And so, you know, I've used it to my advantage. I think that there are aspects of the industry that are really challenging. I think a lot of people tell you no. A lot of people, there's a lot of, there's a lot of competition.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  There's, like you said, I mean, there's so many beautiful people. There's a lot of luck and and I feel like for me, you know, in my Cinderella story, I feel like I was in the right place at the right time and I had this window of opportunity and I ran for it and I have an amazing family who was by my side every step of the way. I mean, starting a career at fifteen is, I think there's there's pitfalls to that, just the nature of being fifteen and and having a lot of pressure on you. So for me, I had a lot of luck and the right people around me. And I think a lot of young women who want to go into modeling or work in fashion, um, that's not always the case.

• 11:50Tim Ferriss?

  How uh, how did your family help you in terms of rules and policies? And the reason I ask this is it seemed like they were quite strict when it came to high school homework and so on. So I was doing some reading prior to this and a day might look like a seven AM flight to New York to do some type of shoot.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:15Tim Ferriss?

  Five AM flight. Five AM flight, they get international covers and then you fly back and you're doing homework at seven PM and so on.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:22Tim Ferriss?

  What were, what were some of the parameters, rules, policies, anything like that, that your, that your parents had to help keep you on track? Because this, this relates to something that has popped up a few times on this podcast that I think is really important. So could you, could you speak to that?

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Sure, I, you know, I had this kind of double life. I was fifteen years old and very much figuring out who I am, what, you know, in high school, I mean, you're figuring out a lot of things. And I, like I said, I was a five foot eleven fifteen year old. So that came with its own set of challenges. But I, I don't know, I guess I, um, I had this double life and I would be in school, have a very normal day in class, sitting in the school lunchroom with my friends, with my peers, and then I would get on a flight to Paris or New York a couple of days a week. I really had this full time job even. As a freshman in high school.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  So I had this double life and it was before social media. So none of my friends or teachers really knew to the extent of what I was doing. So I would go to Paris and walk in a couture runway show or be in be the face of the Dior campaigns globally or on the cover of magazines. And it was before the kind of global connectivity we have now. So I kind of was able to have a very, very normal real life. As at the same time, I was building this international career. And I think the the discipline that my parents definitely helped me kind of stay really balanced with with focusing on academics and focusing on what matters.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  I mean, we still would have normal family dinners and I would get in trouble if I like didn't, you know, came home past curfew or I don't know. I I had like such a normal home life that I think that really was that balanced all of these amazing other things out. And I think my parents were always really, they trusted me. I think that's one of the biggest things, too. They knew that I was that they they trusted me to do the right thing. And they they that that freedom, there's a lot of there's a lot of, I don't know, responsibility I felt with that and gratitude to my parents because I didn't want to let them down.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  And so I think I never, I never wanted to, I don't know, to to ruin that.

• 15:01Tim Ferriss?

  Betray that confidence.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Betray that, yeah.

• 15:03Tim Ferriss?

  So one of the reasons I ask is I'm fascinated by people who have reached a pinnacle of success in any field, who can remain grounded in any capacity. Because it seems that whether it's Alcohol, power.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:21Tim Ferriss?

  Money, those are the three that come to mind.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 15:23Tim Ferriss?

  When you add those, any of those in quantity, people tend to become more of what they are, right? So if they have a small flaw.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 15:32Tim Ferriss?

  It gets magnified. And if they're a small asshole, they become a really big asshole.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:36Tim Ferriss?

  And there's, there's real risk when pressure's added to the, to the container. So.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:40Tim Ferriss?

  I'm fascinated how people maintain perspective over time.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:45Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, so that they don't become some abomination, like Frankenstein's version of themselves. And, and for instance, a friend of mine I've had on this podcast, Chris Saka, who have had the privilege of watching go from angel investor, sort of fledgling VC to now, you know, Midas list.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:04Tim Ferriss?

  Arguably, the, I don't even think it's arguable is his lowercase one fund is, I think, going to be the most successful venture capital fund in the history of venture capital.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 16:12Tim Ferriss?

  So he's, he's really reached a peak. And when I've dug in with him as to how he's maintained some perspective, because he still ultimately is a very middle-class kid who grew up in upstate New York, right? Trying to make ends meet. His parents had him do something called Sweet and Sour Summers. So they would give him, they would help him to find a job that would give him an opportunity to learn.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:37Tim Ferriss?

  And interact with people who are maybe above his pay grade, above his parents' pay grade. But then they would also make him take some shitty job, like hauling around heavy things on a construction site.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  I had plenty of those shitty jobs. But, uh, you know, so I, I had, to the extent of the normal life that I, this kind of double life that I had, my normal life, I really, I can't stress it enough, it was very normal. Like, I, um, I, I mean, I still had my, like, chores, doing the dishes, taking out the trash, like every 15-year-old. Didn't matter if I was on the cover of International Vogue's. Like, I was still coming home and doing my homework and, um, taking out the trash. Like, and also beyond just my parents, my sisters. I have three sisters that I'm really close with and, and some of my best friends, my, my core group of girlfriends from, from growing up that I've known since kindergarten are still some of my best friends.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  And so I think there's this, I, I, I feel really grateful that I've been able to, to, um, I don't know, keep my feet on the ground very much. So and also I have a lot of people around me who would. Bat me over the head and like beat me up if I did it, you know, they would, they wouldn't allow it. I don't know, I, I, yeah.

• 17:56Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, the, the support structure is also, the, people might be asking, it's always like, well, okay, you grew up that way, fantastic. I didn't grow up that way. So it's not actionable. And what I would say is not true. Why would I explore this? It's because you can actually build in, it's like, all right, what is the version? If you are hoping to achieve a certain modicum of success, like what are the chores that you can engineer into your life? So that you maintain some perspective, right? There are ways to do it, right? Maybe it's volunteering once a week. And

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:23Tim Ferriss?

  And that helps you to not only hopefully ultimately achieve some success, but to achieve also some contentment and life outside of focusing only on your personal success, right? And which is actually a segue of sorts to, I'm going to get there. I want, I'm going to talk about coding very, very shortly, but I'm going to get there vis a vis books. So I want to ask about books. Cause I had read, maybe true, maybe not, that you don't actually watch very much television. So I was like, all right, great. Well, let's talk about books then. Are there any particular books that you have gifted the most to other people or reread often yourself?

• 19:02Speaker 02

  I love podcasts and I love audiobooks. I feel like I'm somebody who learns by, by listening. I retain information better. So I, I do like TV, but I just don't have a ton of time for it. I feel like I'm constantly on the go. And so I'm listening to audiobooks, whether I'm walking through airport security or in a cab to the airport. And I love, there's this book, The Four Agreements.

• 19:28Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  That I, I recently gave my sisters who are graduating from college. And I just think, I, I think it's got a lot of great principles and ideas.

• 19:40Tim Ferriss?

  Are there any particular podcasts that, that are your go to?

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Um, I love, so I love learning about things. I love learning about entrepreneurs. I love learning about like, I love listening to conversations. I mean, I guess that's one thing, too, that I feel like in my real life, I get to ask people, "I'm sitting here with you, Tim." I mean, what a privilege that is.

• 20:04Tim Ferriss?

  You're welcome to rescind that comment later.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  No, it's true. It's true. But I love listening to conversations. I love your work. I love Guy, How I Built This. I love listening to conversations.

• 20:20Tim Ferriss?

  So, The Four Agreements, for people who aren't familiar, has come up quite a few times in this podcast. And I also recently found out that Tom Brady had been gifting this book a whole lot as well. It has to catch you at the right time, I think, for it to be applicable. But the reason I brought up, you're gonna say?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  No, I was just gonna say, you know, I'm 25, and I feel like it's to the point of the timing, because someone gave it to me for my birthday. And I just think that it really does come down to kind of this. I think we're always evolving, always growing, and should be always learning, at least I hope I am. And it really makes you focus inward. And I think it doesn't matter how old or young you are. I think that's something that I really value, is growing as a human being. And it certainly kind of helps you think about ways to grow and focus as a human being.

• 21:23Tim Ferriss?

  So, other ways to grow. We're gonna get to it in two seconds. I brought up books because books involve writing, sort of expressing thought, in some cases on paper, in some cases in audio. And there's a craft. There's a certain elegance to good writing. And I've been fascinated by coding encoders for a very long time. And the fact that you can have, say, a very, very good coder get more done than the next 10. If he or she is just very, very elegant and can find non-obvious solutions in what they're trying to execute. And I've spent a very small amount of time with a guy named Chad Fowler, actually, who

• 22:08Tim Ferriss?

  showed me many years ago the basics of Ruby.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:12Tim Ferriss?

  This is just in one afternoon, but he used natural language to help me get a grasp on it because he speaks Hindi. And I'm fascinated by different languages and was an East Asian Studies major, so fascinated by writing systems and Japanese, Chinese, Korean, et cetera. And so I wanted to ask you, of all the many, many things, of the hundreds and thousands of things that you could do with your time, right? How did you get exposed to coding? And walk me through your first experience or experiences with that.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  Well, I love the way that you you explain it as a language, and that's really what it is. And I think that, like any language, it's a medium that you can express yourself, that you can express creative ideas. And that is what I, why I think it's so powerful. I got exposed to it because I'm just a super curious, like annoyingly curious person. I ask a lot of questions and I love understanding how things work. I love understanding like how the world around me works and how science and math can be ways to explain that. But I work in a really creative industry and I, I don't know, I guess I, at a certain

• 23:28Speaker 02

  point, a couple of years ago, I wanted to understand what code was. It was a term that I kept hearing.

• 23:35Tim Ferriss?

  What prompted it? Was it a person, a conversation?

• 23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I was meeting a lot of entrepreneurs. I was watching the entire world, especially fashion and media, be transformed by technology. And I was like, what is it that? A handful of people who are engineers and building huge enterprise value. What is the secret language that they know that the rest of us don't? And code. And I was like, what is code and how can I learn it? So I took a boot camp. It took one, one week and even in.

• 24:07Tim Ferriss?

  Where, where was it?

• 24:08Speaker 02

  In New York at the Flatiron School.

• 24:10Tim Ferriss?

  Who introduced you to that?

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Um, this guy Avi Flavbaum. And he's a great teacher and he started this school and he taught me Ruby. Similar exactly as you. So like, it's a very intuitive kind of language. And, and even in a short time, I was able to kind of understand high level, big principles. And the fact that you can use code to, you know, write a line of code that performs a function. And you can build, you can build ideas using this language. And that to me was just so mind blowing to understand like how the tech that we touch every day,

• 24:51Speaker 02

  how it works and to take it one step further, but to actually be able to, to write it yourself and to express your ideas. Um, and to be able to, I mean, you're a man of, you're so efficient, Tim. It's really inspiring. You're so organized and so efficient.

• 25:06Tim Ferriss?

  I'm organized for maybe like two hours a day. So you're seeing my two hours.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  You are. It's impressive. And I just think that like even you can build tech to enable that and to scale that. And that's what's so powerful is the ability to scale ideas or scale problem solving using code. And, and I think that there's so much opportunity that has yet to really even be uh, built in this kind of intersection of kind of many intersections of, of kind of creative industries. Um, with, from the perspective of someone writing code who has different life experiences or passions maybe than, um, than most engineers sitting in Silicon Valley today.

• 25:49Tim Ferriss?

  Hmm. And, and you take this class.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:54Tim Ferriss?

  You learn the basics of Ruby.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 25:58Tim Ferriss?

  With Avi.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  With Avi.

• 26:00Tim Ferriss?

  All right, and how does that, what is Code with Classy?

• 26:04Speaker 02

  So Code with Classy is-

• 26:05Tim Ferriss?

  The K, folks.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  With a K.

• 26:06Tim Ferriss?

  K O D E.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Is my organization where we teach girls to learn how to code and empower the next generation of tech leaders. So we do that by running summer camps across the country and we teach girls the ABCs. So Ruby, HTML, JavaScript, CSS, enough to be able to build something. So our camps are across the country and they're two weeks long and they're totally free. And we have these amazing girls who come into our camps and learn these skills and it's amazing what they're able to build. And not only just the way that they're able

• 26:46Speaker 02

  to build their ideas, but what they're passionate about. So if it's like making social impact, helping their community, they're able to build something and recognize the impact that they can have. And that's really empowering. And that's, that, that, for a girl who's kind of, you know, at that point in life where you're like figuring out what you think you can be or what you think you can't, like, that's really empowering.

• 27:17Tim Ferriss?

  Hmm. I need to learn to code.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  You need to like, I feel like you-

• 27:20Tim Ferriss?

  I need to learn to code.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  You need to come to our camp.

• 27:22Tim Ferriss?

  It's embarrassing that I've been in Silicon Valley, or, I mean, I'm no longer there. We're in Austin and I live here, but seventeen years in Silicon Valley and I think I was too, I was worried that I wouldn't be good at it. And I had a deep-

• 27:35Speaker 02

  I felt the same way.

• 27:36Tim Ferriss?

  I had a deep insecurity that when I scratched the surface, I would see the infinite complexity of something that I could at best only be mediocre at. And so I stuck my head in the sand.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  I disagree. I think that that's the bear, one of the barriers to entry. I think that's why a lot of people don't ever try. I mean, who, who am I? I'm like, I don't have a, I don't work in Silicon Valley. I don't, I didn't go to college. I, but I, I'm curious and it's, it's something that can be learned. Like anything else, it is a language. And I think that, that a lot of people let that, um- Get in the way of taking the first step.

• 28:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you know, it strikes me too that I think perhaps in my mind I've given myself an out, which is actually really flimsy. And that is that it'll be too hard to learn to code. And in my mind, like, learning to code is building, you know, the next super app to go gain 100 million users. Whereas in reality, I'll give you an example from my own experience, and I have some questions for you, so I don't talk too much. This is what happens with too much caffeine. But, so I've always been very, very insecure about my voice.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Oh, come on.

• 28:46Tim Ferriss?

  And that's part of the reason why I wanted to do the podcast, is to beat that out of myself, or to get more comfortable with my voice. And if anyone listens to my earlier episodes, say, the introductions to my early, early, early episodes, and then later you will see the confidence build over time. I was really unsure of myself in the beginning. And I'm still unsure of myself in some ways, but I've always been fearful of singing, any type of singing. I would never do it.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Look, I'm right there with you.

• 29:14Tim Ferriss?

  So, I've always had on my New Year's resolutions, almost every year for the last six years, along those lines, voice lessons. Never did it until a few months ago, just started. And what I realized very quickly is that I don't have to become a good singer to get incredible value out of these voice lessons. Because I've learned enough now, I've certainly improved, but not ready for any opera.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  This might be your debut.

• 29:40Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. We'll see.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  After the podcast.

• 29:43Tim Ferriss?

  After the podcast. Yeah, I won't impose that on anyone right now, it'll be, it'll be very, very harsh. But, when you learn the basics of any skill, and I already know this, so I don't know why I've been so blind to it with both singing and I think now coding.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:57Tim Ferriss?

  Even if you never do anything with it, per se, suddenly you hear everything, in the case of voice, you listen to every song you hear differently. And so your enjoyment of that and your appreciation of it is 10x.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 30:10Tim Ferriss?

  And I would imagine that when you learn the basics of coding, even if you don't use it to push you off into a different career... It gives you an entirely different lens through which you can look at everything that is being built and how things work.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  A thousand percent.

• 30:25Tim Ferriss?

  And that alone, it's like, that alone, to have that gift to look through a different lens for the rest of your life, putting in a week or two seems like a very, potentially worthwhile use of time.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Absolutely. No, Tim, I mean, just on that point, it's like, you know, I think even if you understand high level, what, how things are built, you can understand what is possible.

• 30:48Tim Ferriss?

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  And I think that that's what's really exciting, even just for, you know, as an entrepreneur. You don't have to, I mean, there's probably so many people that you've, that you've sat with and, and that you met in Silicon Valley, that even, even, you know, a friend of mine, Kevin Systrom, founded Instagram, and he, or one of the co-founders of Instagram, and he, he wrote lines of code early on, and actually, you know, I think that was one of the aha moments. I knew him as a friend, and I was like, wait, Kevin, you actually know how to code? You actually built lines of code to build this tool, this platform, that reaches so many people? Like, it put a human element to it.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  And, and I think the idea of even learning a little bit of what code is and how it builds things, it makes you realize what could be possible.

• 31:42Tim Ferriss?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  And I think for people who want to build businesses, you don't have to be the main engineer, I think, you, but there is this kind of literacy that I think is important.

• 31:54Tim Ferriss?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's, I mean, it certainly seems to be the new literacy, or one of the new forms of literacy, that over time, as software reads the world, to borrow Mark Andreessen's expression.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:06Tim Ferriss?

  If you don't want to be displaced, if you want to be able to compete, you need to at least understand the ABCs.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:13Tim Ferriss?

  And, easy for me to say, with my platform and microphone, as someone who's being a bit hypocritical, since I only did one afternoon of Ruby with Chad.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Oh, you, until you come to my coding camp.

• 32:22Tim Ferriss?

  Until I, until I come to your camp.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  The other thing is too, Tim, is that like, I, part of the reason why I wanted to take a, a class, beyond just wanting to understand How the world was being transformed by technology and what specifically that meant. But I, it's like because I was so intimidated by it, because I work in fashion, because I am not someone who maybe looks like the, the, the most, you know, most people in Silicon Valley or engineers, I, I, I don't know, I, I wanted like, there's something in me, I think, that wanted to do what I think would be the hardest possible thing to do. Or like, I don't know, and not, this had, this was not even about building an organization and helping other people do the same thing. This was just for me selfishly.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  I wanted to learn something really hard. And I think that there's probably a part of me that's like, you know, insecure, speaking of, about like the fact that I am, I, I know that I'm more than just what people see me on the outside. And I think that using, I think that insecurity probably has driven me to want to keep doing more. And, and it just, I am just a really curious, passionate person and, and I think this, like, I've always been really interested in math and science and, I don't know, I think that that's partially why I tackled this challenge too initially was like, I want to learn what is going to be, what do people really think is hard to learn?

• 33:53Speaker 02

  I want to learn it.

• 33:54Tim Ferriss?

  Well, let's, so let's talk about a challenge for a second and, or more than a second.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:00Tim Ferriss?

  And I don't know the attribution of this quote I really like, which is everything you want is just outside of your comfort zone. And I'm sometimes better at practicing that than at others. But I'd love to talk about discomfort for a second. Because I think people, I think people have, there are many misconceptions about anyone who has a lot of public exposure like yourself. So one might be, ah, she's just a pretty face, right? Which is not true. Another might be, oh, it's all come very easily. It's all been very easy. It's just been home runs from day one. So what I'd love to ask you is, could you tell us about, you can, you can choose. We could talk about both, like a dark slash hard time.

• 34:45Tim Ferriss?

  What prompted it and how you came out of it? Or a failure that, looking back, helped set the stage or teach you something that led to success later? And the more specific, the better. Because I want to humanize this a little bit for people who might feel like this is that you're...

• 35:03Speaker 02

  I think, you know, there, I mean, so many. Far from perfect, so far from perfect. It's like beyond. But for me, I, I think that there have been many failures along the way. But also, I am a really, I am the toughest person on myself.

• 35:23Tim Ferriss?

  Let's, yeah, let's talk, let's talk about, let's talk about a specific one.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  I, I mean, there's so many moments I can just think about in my, in my fashion career, you know, where I didn't quite... I mean, it's, it's funny how you define like a failure or even like dark moments. I think I've started, I, I have built my career over the past 10 years of my life. And I was 15 years old when I started that. And I think there's just natural human growth that happens over those 10 years. That's really important. And no matter what you're doing, you, you like need to take those failures and challenge yourself to make yourself grow from them and be better.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  And for me, I think because I live in a more public, a more public life or aspects of my life are more public, those failures or, or dark, dark, you know, periods of, of growing up, of coming into your own, of, of growing into your own body, like that's even more criticized or, or, you know, more people have, have, can see it. And so I think for me, I definitely, so many different periods in my life where like, you know, being in the profession that I'm in, it's very focused on like the outside and your body. And as a teenage girl, like growing into your body, I mean, there's so many times I've gone into a fitting

• 36:51Speaker 02

  where the clothes don't fit and that just has made me feel so shitty about myself. And it's not necessarily my fault. It's not necessarily the clothes fault. It's just, it's, it's shitty. It makes you feel horrible. It's made me feel horrible about myself. And I think there was kind of this point... progressively through my career that I was like, I am so much more than just like my measurements or my body. I have so many ideas. I've got so much drive. I know that I have so much to give the world and I really want to help other people and I know that I'm not necessarily doing that. Or the extent of my self-worth or value cannot be just

• 37:34Speaker 02

  on fitting the clothes or not. And I think that there was like a real shift in me and just understanding like, I don't know, understanding how and what to do to keep growing.

• 37:52Tim Ferriss?

  So are there any particular, for instance, routines, habits on a daily or weekly basis that help you to continue functioning at a high level? Or that just help you, that you like? Like what are some specifics? The listeners always love the specifics. Are there any particular?

• 38:14Speaker 02

  I love meditating. You know, I think that-

• 38:17Tim Ferriss?

  How, when, how long do you practice meditating?

• 38:20Speaker 02

  So I'm not as probably good or disciplined as many of your listeners out there, but whenever I can, to the point of-

• 38:28Tim Ferriss?

  Do you use an app?

• 38:29Speaker 02

  I use Headspace. I learned TM. But I just do it whenever, wherever I can. So, you know, this morning, getting ready, I wake up, stretch, breathe, put in, you know, 10 minutes of Headspace, go to the gym, or vice versa, work out, and then meditate, and then start my day. You know, I really have learned how important it is to take care of myself mentally as well as physically. Because I think, you know, part of being in- Just part of, part of life is staying, you know, staying mentally healthy and balanced. And I think especially in an industry that, um, that there is so much volatility.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  I mean, to the point of models and turnover, eh, there's a lot of, there's a lot of failures daily of jobs you don't get or things that you're, I, I have been, I've been told that I'm too tall, too short, too fat, too skinny, too, too this, too that, everything. I mean, it's like, and, and that is such a, that, if that doesn't mess with your head as a teenage girl growing up anyway, then, then, I mean, come on. So again, for me, you know, having an amazing support group around me, having like really my family, my friends, like, and then having outlets that fill my cup. So for me, investing in my learning sincerely is something I love. I love learning new things. I love learning from people.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  I love experiencing new things and I love helping people, not for the sake of like any reason other than just, I love sharing, um, opportunities for other people to, to better themselves, their lives too.

• 40:12Tim Ferriss?

  Well, let's talk about one outlet slash maybe stress release valve, which is the, the exercise, right? So what is, what is, what is your morning, what is a sample morning exercise routine look like?

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 40:24Tim Ferriss?

  Very specifically and how, how long does it take? Like what, what exercises are you doing?

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 40:29Tim Ferriss?

  Or using?

• 40:30Speaker 02

  I grew up playing every sport, doing ballet every day. I grew up super, super active and I live a really busy life today and I'm on a plane all the time. I mean, you, you know, it's not easy to fit it in, but for me, I make sure that I fit in like a combination of cardio and a combination of strength training. So I feel best when I'm strong, not skinny and.

• 40:55Tim Ferriss?

  So tell, tell us about a recent workout.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  I said this morning, woke up, meditated and worked out for 45 minutes, all I had time for and I.

• 41:04Tim Ferriss?

  And did you have breakfast before you worked out?

• 41:06Speaker 02

  After.

• 41:06Tim Ferriss?

  After, okay.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  After I worked out and, um, a combination of. Running, biking and some lightweights. And just, I kind of do whatever I can, whenever I can. So like, if I'm in, if I'm in the south of France on a photo shoot, I'll go for a run and a swim. If I'm here in Austin, I'll go for a run across that cool bridge and like go tour around.

• 41:31Tim Ferriss?

  Whatever's available.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Whatever's available.

• 41:32Tim Ferriss?

  For strength training, if you had to pick only a handful of exercises that you could, that seemed to get you the most bang for the buck, what would they, what would they be?

• 41:42Speaker 02

  I hate burpees so much. I hate them so much.

• 41:45Tim Ferriss?

  You hate them, but it's a love hate?

• 41:47Speaker 02

  It's a love hate, because I just like, I hate them so much that I just know they're probably good for me. Burpees, things that you can do anywhere. So like planking, you know, planking or, or exercises. Like things that I do in my hotel room. Like I don't have time to go down to the gym. So just simple things like, like sit-ups, push-ups, dips.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  All sorts of.

• 42:17Tim Ferriss?

  Portable.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Really, yeah, boring, things like that.

• 42:20Tim Ferriss?

  Ah, yeah, I mean boring, but effective. And I wanted to get into specifics because I'm always curious. When I meet someone who travels as much as you do. It makes it very clear that the, I haven't been able to work out because I'm traveling. Excuses, utter bullshit. And I'm always curious how people make do, right? So I've talked to Triple H, otherwise known as Paul Lavesque. Fascinating guy. And he'll use stationary bike for, or elliptical for say even 10, 15 minutes when he first arrives anywhere after shifting time zones. And it seems to fix, fix jet lag for him. Danzig, when they were traveling around touring, one of the very first things they would do is they would choose a hotel based on the gym that was available.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  Oh, a hundred percent.

• 43:05Tim Ferriss?

  And it's like Bruce Lee would always travel with his, with his running shoes because he knew, he knew no matter what, if other things weren't available, he could run. And it just goes on and on and on. I travel with.

• 43:16Tim Ferriss?

  A number of different bands, as well as an inflatable ball. And it's incredible what you can do, particularly if you learn calisthenic exercises like burpees or pistols, which are one-legged squats. You can get a brutal workout in your own hotel room. Or Jocko Willink, who's a retired Navy SEAL commander, he'll travel with, or he wants to sort of travel with, but he'll, if he wants to do pull-ups and he can't find a place to do pull-ups, he'll grab one of the towels from his room in the hotel, go find the parking structure and throw it over a bar and do pull-ups with the towels. So it's like, there's two observations that I make. Number one, there's always a way. But secondly, that the most, the highest, there's always a way. And the highest functioning, seemingly busiest people I've met, almost all make a point

• 44:00Tim Ferriss?

  to move on a daily basis in some fashion.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  It's so important, for me in my life, it's crucial. Forget even about how, you know, how it makes you look, but how it makes you feel. And just your, for me, brain, mental, emotional balance, I think, and focus and clarity. It's like, you can't, I can't start my day without doing something. And to the point of, whatever it is, you know, I, in my suitcase, always have my running shoes, always have, always have bands, always have ankle weights, which is really funny when I'm going through airport security and I've got like two ankle weights that look like bombs and, you know, they're like lead ankle weights and I get stopped every time

• 44:47Speaker 02

  and get, you know, questioned.

• 44:50Tim Ferriss?

  Ankle, ankle weights and podcast gear. It's like, oh, a bunch of batteries and cables.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, we need to talk to you.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  We're high-risk travelers.

• 44:58Tim Ferriss?

  Mister American History X. For those of you who don't know, I'm very, very bald and have sort of a wrestler-y look to me.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  I do not know.

• 45:07Tim Ferriss?

  So let's, let's chat about...

• 45:11Tim Ferriss?

  Investing and by investing, I mean

• 45:16Tim Ferriss?

  investment of time, energy,

• 45:20Tim Ferriss?

  maybe in a particular relationship. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say you can't answer with your family.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:26Tim Ferriss?

  Alright, so I'm gonna roll them out. But what would you consider one of the best investments you've ever made? And that, that could be, for instance, Amelia Boone, who's been on the podcast, four-time world champion in obstacle course racing. For her at the time, she was and still is a lawyer, but it was the first $450 entry fee for the, the first, I think it was World's Toughest Mudder, which she ended up winning, which opened up this entirely new career, right? Doesn't have to be something like that. But in my case, could potentially be the idea to put in the time, do a six-episode test for the podcast.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:59Tim Ferriss?

  Like, holy shit. And that was just supposed to be a side gig because I was too burned out writing books, now it turned into a whole thing.

• 46:06Tim Ferriss?

  What comes to mind for you when you think about some of the best investments of time, energy, money, or decisions?

• 46:12Speaker 02

  So, a number of things. One, the first pair of high heels that I ever owned were $20 high heels from Target that I learned how to quote-unquote "walk", and that I, those came in very handy when I started my fashion career and I, with my first paycheck ever, bought a red KitchenAid mixer that still sits on my counter to this day. And thousands of cookies have been made from that little mixer. And I got the idea of, of starting a vegan cookie charity project from my passion for baking. And, and that led on to, to a whole fun project and

• 46:55Tim Ferriss?

  Take, take a few sentences just to explain what that is.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  So that's really just what it sounds like. It's a charity project focused on donating school lunches to kids through selling cookies, which I love to, I love to eat cookies, I love to make cookies, and I wanted to kind of have a bake sale of sorts.

• 47:15Tim Ferriss?

  Do you have any partners in?

• 47:17Speaker 02

  We partnered with Momofuku Milk Bar.

• 47:19Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, for those who don't know that, look it up.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Oh, look it up. Must, must visit when you're in New York. And, and we made cookies and we donated over a million school lunches from Of from the sales of these cookies. And that was just this kind of first project where I was. It was really my idea and my and this something that I built and used my. My voice to build a take an idea and actually bake a cookie and bake a. An an impact into that product.

• 47:54Tim Ferriss?

  So we got the we got the heels, which if you can't walk in those, you're gonna have issues as a as a female in fashion. The KitchenAid mixer. So KitchenAid, if you're listening, I think I'm sure Carly has very reasonable endorsement rates, so you can reach out.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  And and investing in time, you know, honestly, two things. One, I I applied back to NYU because. I love learning and I wanted to be back in an environment where I could keep growing and learning. And that was at 20 years old. That was after five years already of of working full time. And so I invested back in being a student and and I and that also led me to taking a coding class. And that led me to start in code with Classy and.

• 48:40Tim Ferriss?

  What did you go in to learn?

• 48:42Speaker 02

  I wanted to learn anything, everything. I have so many things that I I love.

• 48:46Tim Ferriss?

  So question, I wanna.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  Cause I know you're really a curious person too, so I feel like.

• 48:50Tim Ferriss?

  But I wanna I wanna dig into the motivation for one second. So I have some friends, very, very smart. Very accomplished, who either didn't ever go to college or dropped out of college. And some of them, for for some of them, going back and getting the diploma was just a. And this is not a bad motivation at all, but they had carried some type of like defensiveness and insecurity about having not gone. And to college and finished. Was that any piece of it?

• 49:16Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I was planning on becoming a physician, a doctor, emergency room doctor, something like my dad. And so I. Or go to business school or go to some. I always planned on having a very, at least getting a college degree. And so I think there's an element of wanting to kind of keep learning more, keep doing more. Not for the sake of getting the degree, but for the sake of being in an environment where I can keep expanding my horizons. And I think the thing is, like, I have that through my job as well.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  There's so many ways that I'm able to learn just by traveling and meeting people. And I feel like everybody has that. It's not just, I mean, I am a unique situation. I get to travel to crazy places. But I think just, it's kind of a mindset, a mentality, a perspective of just keeping your eyes and ears open.

• 50:21Tim Ferriss?

  Do you have any favorite classes or professors besides the coding? Anything come to mind?

• 50:25Speaker 02

  I took a feminism class at NYU, which was really fascinating for understanding the history, the history of feminism, academic perspectives, the different waves of feminism. A lot of academic reading around the topic, beyond just kind of rah rah, girl power.

• 50:47Tim Ferriss?

  All right, so you mentioned a number of things. Are there any purchases in recent memory? This is one of my rapid fire questions. And it's a bit of an awkward transition from feminism, so I apologize to people for that. But are there any particular purchases that have had a very positive impact on your life? Ideally of the, say, less than a hundred or less than a thousand dollar variety?

• 51:14Speaker 02

  I love journaling on airplanes. I sit for, you know, especially that flight back to St. Louis is only two hours. So it's like two hours of uninterrupted time. And every airplane that I'm sitting on, I always journal and brain dump ideas, grocery lists. I've had, it's really... Pretty remarkable, looking back at those journals and thinking how much of the things that I listed out of dreams and goals that I've been able to tick off and accomplish. And I think that an investment of a journal, a great Moleskine, certainly has been worthwhile.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  And really, just something that I think is a great exercise. And I really love, like, actually, like I said, taking care of myself and my mind and body. And so like, I always have all these, in my suitcase, I've got all these crazy supplements, like moon juice, dusts, they have like, brain dust and beauty dust. And it's like, crazy potions of like, ashwagandha and things that I like, I'm a total sucker and believer that like, that, so I travel with all these potions in my suitcase, along with my bands and ankle weights.

• 52:36Tim Ferriss?

  When you use the notebooks,

• 52:40Tim Ferriss?

  do you, what does a page look like and how do you follow up? So what I'm curious to know is how you,

• 52:50Tim Ferriss?

  how things make it from the page into reality, right? Do you go back and figure out what next steps are? Do you write down next steps in a particular way? And people have so many different ways of approaching this. I mean, in my case, in my journal, I wish I had it right here, but I always make a little box in the bottom right hand corner. And that's for next steps, based on anything on that page. And so every bottom right hand corner has next steps. And then I'll go through and I'll be like, eh, all right, that was a stupid idea. Or like, eh, it's not for now. And I'll just highlight, I'll do a second pass and then highlight the kind of dominos that I think will topple as many other dominos as possible. But how, when you brained up or when you put these things on paper, walk us through. What that looks like.

• 53:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'll, there's also this app that's called Wanderlist. That's great. And for, for actually having a more digital version of those lists. And then also things like Slack are great, too. Um, the, the notebook is more just like my real personal kind of deepest, darkest uh, thoughts and, and, and ideas and goals and like, nobody's judging. Hopefully, nobody's reading them. Um, but, but I think the, the, the organization, uh, you know, I mean, I love, this is the way your brain works. I think my brain is not the most organized. I have, uh, I have a lot of ideas and I think it's actually taken a lot of discipline to,

• 54:18Speaker 02

  to kind of keep everything moving forward and to, I, I, I definitely think it's like going through those lists and following up with the people that, that I need to continue the conversation with or, um, I've got an amazing team. I've got a great partner who is building, is helping me build Koda's Glossy, building all my businesses. Her name's Penny Thou. She's amazing and, uh, I, I feel like it's a really collaborative process. Taking those lists and actually make, turning them into action is, is more the, working with my team, um, to, to bring them to life.

• 55:00Tim Ferriss?

  Mm-hmm. One, one thing I've noticed, and tell me if this is off base or not, but in doing a lot of homework on you, putting together the dossier.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  I know, first of all, I need to send cookies to your friend, the crazy.

• 55:15Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, the crazy Bulgarian.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Bulgarian.

• 55:17Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, my God. Crazy Bulgarian, I know you're listening, you're in luck.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  Thank you, crazy Bulgarian.

• 55:21Tim Ferriss?

  You, you need some cookies. Uh, don't forget me, I could do some cookies, too. I'll say it's for my cheat day, but I might actually break that rule. Uh, yeah, yeah, I have to be careful around cookies. One of those, very little portion control when it comes to cookies.

• 55:34Speaker 02

  I hear you.

• 55:34Tim Ferriss?

  Turns out, but, uh.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  I'll send you healthy ones.

• 55:37Tim Ferriss?

  The, also send me the unhealthy ones. You can address them to somebody else and then I'll just eat them anyway.

• 55:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 55:41Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, the. The pattern that seemed to pop up was, and I think this actually makes you a lot smarter than I am in some really deep ways, is when I go through my notebook and I write down what needs to be done next, like what do I need to do next? And it seems like, as I've looked through a lot of your history, you are much better at doing one thing that's really important that I need to improve upon. And that is not asking what do I need to do next necessarily, but who do I need to talk to next? And whether it's Kevin Systrom, or say Casey Neistat, who's also been on the podcast, really do vlogging. I've had a lot of trouble, it doesn't even occur to me to ask for help,

• 56:23Tim Ferriss?

  not because I think I have all the answers, but I don't want to burden people with that. Or there's some weird baggage that I carry, which is why Amanda Palmer, at one point, the musician, really is, and her book has really helped me to learn how to ask for help. But is that accurate? Am I all?

• 56:41Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. Oh my gosh, I mean, again, I'm somebody who didn't get a college degree, a business school degree, and I'm trying to build businesses and a nonprofit and scale that impact and grow my team and be a boss. I mean, there's so many things that I'm learning as I go. And I think that what I have, what I really value is the people that I can lean on as mentors or advisors in figuring it out. And I think that that's a really important thing that I've, that I have, that I also kind of had this awakening where I was like, I am in the room with extraordinary people

• 57:23Speaker 02

  and I'm being afforded that opportunity because of my job, my day job, being a model, working on big advertising jobs, working in an industry with a lot of creatives. Like, how can I actually best use that to accomplish what I really dream of? What my biggest goals and ambitions are? And I think a lot of people sometimes are afraid to ask for help. And I definitely have.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  I ask, I ask questions.

• 57:53Tim Ferriss?

  You ask for help.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I don't know what my problem is with that. I mean, I've gotten better, but I, it's one of these self-defeating habits of isolating myself that is kind of a

• 58:05Speaker 02

  I do have to.

• 58:05Tim Ferriss?

  It's a default that I need to continually work on. I get better for periods and then I'm like, ah, no, I need to figure this out. I should be able to figure this out. And like, sit down with my notebook, not always the ideal tool of choice. So, I need to revisit. Amanda, need your help. I'll reread your book. If you look at the last handful of years, are there any particular habits, beliefs, tools that have had a tremendously positive impact on your life besides things we've mentioned already? So it can't be, say, meditation or Headspace or one of these.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  You know, I think just learning by doing. I, for a long time, you know, over the past years, I find it so interesting to just see how much the whole world has changed in so many ways. You know, you mentioned Casey Neistat. I had a conversation with him a number of years ago where I

• 59:03Tim Ferriss?

  Do you want to talk about Busy?

• 59:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, talk about Busy, talk about Wake Up.

• 59:08Tim Ferriss?

  Look up Casey Neistat.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  He's, he's amazing. And he really helped me realize that I could not just be a canvas for creators, but I could be a creator myself. And, and I think there was kind of this overall shift in, certainly in fashion, in social media enabling a platform and a, and a voice for everyone. Doesn't matter if you're the model, your voice is, is, can be heard in the same way the brand or designers can. And, and that extends for everyone and, and that's beyond just fashion. But there was this kind of shift in my own perspective of realizing that my ideas had

• 59:51Speaker 02

  value and that I could be a creator and share what I was experiencing and learning and doing beyond just what was translated by somebody else or I could be, I could be heard.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  I could be, what am I saying? I didn't have to just be seen, but I could also be heard.

• 1:00:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  And I think that there was something really empowering in that. And that's been a kind of a collective shift over the years.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  And I think this kind of democratization of ideas and of voices and the, this kind of, instead of just a handful of people in power at the top, like, everybody has the opportunity to build something, to with their ideas. And that's to the point of like, code being this ability to actually actualize that, to realize that, to have ideas that, whether it's a problem you're facing or a, an idea for a company, or an idea for making impact. I mean, being able to actually build that, even if you're a 15-year-old girl.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  I just, I think that there's something so exciting about like, there being no rules. And I feel like a lot of the rules that maybe existed in the world or in the industry that I work in 10 years ago are no longer the case. And I think it's exciting to see what is ahead of us.

• 1:01:26Tim Ferriss?

  That's exciting. Yeah, I mean, there's certainly still top-down power. And there are certain things that require political relationships and so on. But more and more so, the ability to develop bottoms-up power is available to anyone who is willing to learn and compete.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:46Tim Ferriss?

  That's the good news. The bad news, potentially, is you better fucking compete. Because, guess what? When there are, say, three to four billion additional people coming online in the next handful of years.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:01:58Tim Ferriss?

  You have to compete against everybody. It's, and I think that's a very good thing. But it also means you can learn from everybody. And that information is available. So, just a few more questions. Billboard, you've probably heard this question before, because I like to ask it. But if you could put a few words, a word, a quote, anything on a billboard, can't be an advertisement, to get a message out to millions or billions of people, metaphorically speaking. What might you put on that billboard?

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Hmm, I feel like that's so that there are so many things that I probably should be putting on that billboard. But one thing that my dad always used to really hammer home to me and my sisters is like, we would come home from school and if one of us got a bad grade or something, he would say like, did you give it your best? Like, only you actually really know. Like, did you give it your best? Did you study the best you could? Did you go in there like as focused as possible? Did you give it your best? And I think that there's something really like important to always just keep in mind is like, give it your absolute best. And also be present. I think that's the other thing, too. Those are two things

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  that I that I always kind of think about to myself. Like, am I doing my absolute best? Yes, then like, cut myself a break. Like, even if I can't compare myself to anyone else, because my best, only I know what that actually is. And I think being present is a really important exercise, always.

• 1:03:35Tim Ferriss?

  Did you give it your best? That's a really important question. Yeah. I feel like you are giving it your best, at least from the outside looking in.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  Definitely trying the best I can. I mean, I certainly don't have all the answers. I think that's one thing, too, is I'm 25 years old and like all of my, I'm far from perfect. And but I've sincerely just given it my best every step of the way and taken opportunities that I've been able to have and and make the most of them, learn from them, keep growing, never kind of being satisfying or staying complacent, and then also thinking about how I can help others along the way.

• 1:04:17Tim Ferriss?

  So you have a very exciting year ahead of you, as I'm sure will be many, many years of excitement ahead of you. I'm always super eager to support anything related to enabling through education. I mean, that's been a real focus of mine with a number of different organizations over the last 10 years or so. What

• 1:04:40Tim Ferriss?

  Closing comments might you have, an ask of the audience, a suggestion of the audience, certainly if they can learn more about how to code?

• 1:04:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:50Tim Ferriss?

  Or share that with girls or people who may want to attend one of your camps. What would you like to share, ask of, or recommend to the audience?

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  Well, you have an incredible audience and anyone out there listening, I ask just, if you know any young women between the ages of 13 and 18 who you think would benefit from learning to code or would be interested, send them to codewithclousy.com to apply for our free camps. We're gonna have a thousand spots. This is a really, really big summer of growth for us.

• 1:05:24Tim Ferriss?

  How long are the camps?

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  The camps are two weeks long, nine to five, Monday through Friday, and they are action-packed. There's so much that the girls do over the course of these two weeks, and we are growing to 50 camps in 25 cities across the country. So, it's a big summer for us and we want to, we want to get as many amazing young women in these, in these classes and in these camps. So, send them to codewithclousy.com to apply.

• 1:05:52Tim Ferriss?

  Codewithclousy.com, K-O-D-E with, hopefully you guys can spell that, K-L-O-S-S-Y.com. What was the age range again?

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  13 to 18.

• 1:06:03Tim Ferriss?

  13 to 18. So, think, think about this for a second, folks. Cue me, I say, "I don't know any 13 to 18 year old girls." All right. Do you have any daughters? Do your friends have any daughters? Are you a teacher with female students who might benefit from this? Consider it. This is, in many, many respects, the new literacy, and I'm gonna get off my lazy ass and stop procrastinating.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  And go to my coding camp.

• 1:06:27Tim Ferriss?

  And actually, give it a shot.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:06:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, talk about Where's Waldo, that'd be easy to pick out. Who's the bald shiny gnome among the 12 to 18 year old girls?

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 1:06:38Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, why is Tim Ferriss here?

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  You're the only boy we'll let in.

• 1:06:40Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:42Tim Ferriss?

  So code with Clausy.com. People can find you everywhere, of course. Carly Claus, @CarlyClaus, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube. If you had, is there any one of those three that you would prioritize?

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  For applying or for?

• 1:06:57Tim Ferriss?

  No, just for people who want to.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  I love Instagram. That's my first to go.

• 1:07:00Tim Ferriss?

  That sounds like a native environment for you. So Instagram, @CarlyClaus. Code with Clausy is @codewithclausy on all the socials and codewithclausy.com. Thank you so much for taking the time today.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  Thank you, Tim.

• 1:07:12Tim Ferriss?

  This was really fun. And for people listening, as always, I'll have links to everything we've discussed, including the websites, social, books, et cetera, in the show notes, tim.blog/podcast. And until next time, thank you for listening. Hey, guys. This is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos

• 1:07:57Tim Ferriss?

  and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric, as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com, all spelled out, and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by FreshBooks. Man, oh, man, do a lot of listeners of this podcast and readers of mine love FreshBooks, to the extent that I ended up meeting with

• 1:08:40Tim Ferriss?

  the CEO not very long ago. Why are they so popular? Well, they are the number one cloud accounting software designed exclusively for self-employed professionals, that's many of you, and used by more than 10 million. You can send invoices, track your time and get paid very, very quickly, which suits the needs of a lot of freelancers, a lot of entrepreneurs and beyond. You can take pictures of receipts. You can link your credit card and debit card. So all the things you buy automatically appear in your FreshBooks in the right category. So on and so forth. Makes taxes easy, makes invoices easy, makes your life easier. And also, in fact, I'd recommend a PDF. They didn't ask me to read this part, by the way. They put together a PDF a while back called "Breaking the Time Barrier",

• 1:09:24Tim Ferriss?

  subtitle "How to Unlock Your True Earning Potential", so you can search for "Breaking the Time Barrier". A lot of people ask me, "How can I get a four-hour work week with a service business?" And the story in that ebook, it's PDF, is the short answer. It's really, really good. So I think you should also check that out. So "Breaking the Time Barrier", check it out. But also, why not test out FreshBooks? Claim your 30-day unrestricted free trial at freshbooks.com/tim and enter Tim Ferriss, two R's and two S's, in the "How did you hear about us?" section. That sounds like we're gonna get very little tracking. That's a lot of work. But just go to freshbooks.com/tim and try it out, because it is a very good product and I think you will find it simplifies your life. Enjoy.

• 1:10:11Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by 99designs. Whether you need a logo, custom website, app, book cover, or anything else, 99designs was created to make great design accessible to everyone, that's you, and to make the process as easy as possible. I've used 99designs for years now. I've used them for book covers, some mockups for The Four Hour Body, which went on to become a number one New York Times bestseller, illustrations of all different types for the multi-volume The Tao of Seneca, which you can check out, and other graphic design projects for a long time now. And I've been very impressed by the quality of their designers and illustrators. And you don't have to take my word for it. You should check out some of my projects at 99designs.com/tim. I really encourage you to take a look, because you will be impressed.

• 1:10:56Tim Ferriss?

  99designs.com/tim. 99designs has freelance experts in more than 90

• 1:11:01Tim Ferriss?

  Design categories and their platform lets you work directly with one designer that you choose if you like their stuff, which is what I did for the Tower of Seneca, or you can get concepts from multiple designers and then pick your favorite. So whether you're starting a business or just looking for extra design help, resources, etc., 99designs has a solution. Right now, you guys, my listeners, can receive a free $99 upgrade on your first design. To check out your first free upgrade, please visit 99designs.com/tim and click the link on the landing page. You can also find their samples of projects from you guys, listeners, who have used 99designs for logos, apps, even product packaging. So check it out. 99designs.com/tim.