#128: Derek Sivers Reloaded - On Success Habits and Billionaires with Perfect Abs

Derek Sivers (@sivers https://twitter.com/sivers) is one of my favorite humans, and I call him often for advice. Think of him as a philosopher-king programmer, master teacher, and merry prankster. Originally a professional musician and circus clown, Derek created CD Baby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_Baby in 1998. It became the largest seller of independent music online, with $100 million in sales for 150,000 musicians. In 2008, Derek sold CD Baby for $22 million, giving the proceeds to a charitable trust for music education. By popular demand, this is round 2 with the amazing Derek Sivers! This episode can be listened to independently of our previous conversation, which can be found at fourhourworkweek.com/derek http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/derek ### This podcast is brought to you by Mizzen + Main http://www.mizzenandmain.com/collections/tim-ferriss-alt. These are the only "dress" shirts I now travel with — fancy enough for important dinners but made from athletic, sweat-wicking material http://www.mizzenandmain.com/collections/tim-ferriss-alt. They are a personal favorite of NFL phenom J. J. Watt, alongside many professional athletes. Mizzen now also make chinos, which stretch in four directions, and are perfect for all climates. For all of their clothing: no more ironing, no more steaming, no more hassle. Click here for the exact shirts I wear most often http://www.mizzenandmain.com/collections/tim-ferriss-alt. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com/shirts http://www.mizzenandmain.com/collections/tim-ferriss-alt and find what you like.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Derek Sivers?

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Can I answer your personal question?

• 0:08Speaker 02

  No, we're just seeing an appropriate time.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 0:23Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Mizzen and Maine. You've heard about them before. We have a couple of updates. These are my favorite dress shirts, and I hate dress shirts, but I love these because they are made of athletic, sweat-wicking material. You don't have to iron them. You don't have to do anything. You can throw them into your travel duffel for weeks at a time and just pull them out and put them on. So they can look very fancy, but they can also be used casually. Don't need to wash them very much, et cetera, et cetera. They're the favorite of professional athletes as well, including NFL phenom J.J. Watt. My personal phenom, the supple leopard, Kelly Starrett, and Tim Ferriss Show listeners all over the world literally have embraced Mizzen and Maine. It's the perfect shirt, and I'd like to think of it that way.

• 1:05Tim Ferriss?

  And their business has exploded. You can also look up the Tim Ferriss Effect Podcast Edition to see some of their actual numbers. And they've added chinos. So I always thought of chinos as these horribly cheesy, preppy, khaki pants, but no, I was wrong. These gray pants, I am now in the Bahamas, and I wore them in New York, then in L.A., then here, three different climates, perfect for all three. And wore them on the airplane, and I could wear them to a fancy dinner the very next night, and they looked like they'd been ironed. They are awesome. Probably the most comfortable now dress pants that I own. So Mizzen and Maine, they're killing it. Easy to take care of. You can look great, feel great.

• 1:46Tim Ferriss?

  And that's about it. So you should check these things out. They're great. They also make fantastic holiday gifts for your loved ones. Check it out, fourhourworkweek.com/shirts, all spelled out, fourhourworkweek.com/shirts.

• 2:03Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, boys and girls. This is Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers and tease out routines, the habits, favorite books, etc. that you can use. This is a slightly different format today. We have an in-between-isode, which is a shorter episode, a shorter format, and we have a reloaded round two with Derek Sivers by popular demand. Derek Sivers, @Sivers on Twitter, S-I-V-E-R-S. He's one of my all-time favorite humans. I call him often for advice. You can think of him as a philosopher-king programmer, master teacher, and merry prankster. Originally a professional musician and circus clown, I'm not kidding, Derek created CD Baby

• 2:47Tim Ferriss?

  in 1998. It became the largest seller of independent music online with 100 million in sales for 150,000-plus musicians. He then sold CD Baby in 2008 for $22 million, giving the proceeds to a charitable trust for music education. I could use some talk-in education, because I'm chewing my words today. And this particular episode is composed comprised of questions that you guys submitted, in part. So there were a number of questions I didn't get to asking him, and he answers those, and he cut my voice out of other episodes to do so. And then there were questions upvoted on Reddit for him to answer, which I promoted on Facebook and on Twitter, so you guys could participate. And he asked those folks to

• 3:32Tim Ferriss?

  send in audio. So the questions he answered were in part determined by those willing to send in their questions via audio from all over the planet. And he answers things such as "successful," who's the first person who comes to mind, "how should one share themselves or their work online?" Probably the best answer I've heard anyone give. Parenting advice, or at least his practices. Socrates and learning programming, and how those are related. One of my favorite quotes that I've ever heard him put out there, "If more info were the answer, we'd all be billionaires with perfect abs." So he talks about the difference between knowing and doing, and how to bridge that gap. "Habits for living a successful life," and what he would do if he were starting over with $1,000 in the bank in just the close ...on his back could not use his name or face recognition to do anything.

• 4:17Tim Ferriss?

  And this episode is worth listening to even if you just listen to the last three minutes. And that is where he answers the question, what is something you believe that other people think is insane? And he expands that to mean, what unpopular opinions do you hold? It is awesome and hilarious. So if you want to listen to the first interview that I did with Derek, you can just go to fourhourworkweek.com/Derek, all spelled out. But this one stands alone. You can listen to it independently or just by itself. I suppose those are the redundancy department of redundancy department. And that is it. So please enjoy this solo act by Derek Sivers.

• 5:00Tim Ferriss?

  When people ask you, what do you do? How do you answer that?

• 5:04Derek Sivers?

  Ooh, that's a heavy question for everyone, isn't it? Like, we think, oh, no, this is my big moment. This is where I have to define who I am. I heard that Stuart Brand gives a different answer every time he's asked. I like that. It's a good challenge. But if you search YouTube for the British magician Darren Brown doing his hypnotizing handshake, I think one of his videos is called Russian Scam. He holds out his hand as if to shake yours, but then when you lift up your hand to shake his, he grabs your forearm with the opposite hand instead, and he puts something else in your hand. It's all very confusing, and it puts people into this state of confusion where they're

• 5:45Derek Sivers?

  open to suggestion to help find some reason for what's going on here. He's got this great little book called Tricks of the Mind that I highly recommend, where he tells how he did something similar to stop a mugging. He was held up at knife point in a dark street once, and the attacker said, give me all your money. And Darren Brown just turned to him and said, you know, my grandfather had a wall that was five feet high, little ducks all around. Do you know the type like this? And a few more nonsense sentences like that, and the mugger was just completely thrown off, and he walked off kind of derailed. So I think that confusion is a great way to break habits. So lately, when someone asks what I do, I tend to say something like, "I don't know,"

• 6:29Derek Sivers?

  or, "You know, I've never thought about it before." And then that just derails the whole routine of a boring conversation, right? It lets them know we're not just painting by numbers now. And also, I think it's like finding someone who doesn't know their name, right? Like, how could you not know your name? How could you not know what you do? Poor guy must have amnesia. Let's help him figure it out, because we can't just have someone walking around not knowing what it is they do now, can we?

• 6:57Tim Ferriss?

  When you think of the word "successful," who is the first person who comes to mind, and why?

• 7:02Derek Sivers?

  Well, the first answer to any question isn't much fun, because it's just automatic, right? Like, what's the first painting that comes to mind? Mona Lisa? Oh, name a genius. Einstein! Who's a composer? Mozart! But this is the subject of the book "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman. There's the instant, unconscious, automatic thinking, and then there's the slower, conscious, rational, deliberate thinking. So I'm really, really into the slower thinking, like breaking my automatic responses to the things in my life, and slowly thinking through a more deliberate response instead. And then, for the things in life where an automatic response is useful, I can create

• 7:47Derek Sivers?

  a new one consciously. So, like, what if you asked, "When you think of the word 'successful,' who's the third person that comes to mind? And why are they actually more successful than the first person that came to mind?" Well, in that case, the first person would be Richard Branson, because he's like the stereotype, right? He's like the Mona Lisa of success, to me. And honestly, you might be my second answer, but we could talk about that a different time. And my third and real answer, after thinking it through, is that we can't know.

• 8:22Derek Sivers?

  Without knowing a person's aims, right? Like, what if Richard Branson set out to live a quiet life, but like a compulsive gambler, he just can't stop creating companies? Well, then that changes everything and we can't really call him successful anymore.

• 8:38Tim Ferriss?

  What are the most common misconceptions about you?

• 8:41Derek Sivers?

  Oh, I feel pretty understood. I don't think people are thinking about me enough to conjure up any misconceptions. You know, we think the goal of writing and communication is to be understood, but I think a better goal is just making sure that you're not misunderstood. I learned this the hard way at my last company because we had a quarter million customers. So when I'd send out an email to everyone, if any sentence was at all unclear in any way, I'd get like 50,000 confused replies from people, which would take my team like a thousand man-hours to go through. So now, anything I put out into the public is rewritten and edited like crazy until

• 9:25Derek Sivers?

  I think it's as clear as can be.

• 9:27Tim Ferriss?

  I'd love to talk about your morning rituals. On your ideal morning, what does the first, you know, like 60 to 90 minutes of your day look like? When do you wake up? What are your morning, what morning rituals are important to you, et cetera?

• 9:43Derek Sivers?

  Well, not only do I not have morning rituals, but there's really nothing that I do every day, except for, you know, eating or some form of writing. But here's why. I get really, really, really into one thing at a time. For example, a year ago, I discovered a new approach to programming my Postgresql database that made all of my code a lot easier. So I spent five months, like every waking hour, just completely immersed into this one thing. I would bounce out of bed at 5:00 in the morning and programming SQL code for like 19 hours from 5:00 AM till midnight. You know, I'd stop maybe an hour or two a day to go for a run or talk on the phone with a friend.

• 10:25Derek Sivers?

  But after five months, I finished that project. So I took a week and I went hiking in Milford Sound in New Zealand, totally offline. But when I got back from that, I was so like Zen nature boy that I spent the next couple of weeks just reading books outside. But then it was time for me to prepare my big keynote speech for this conference, which tied into something I'd been wanting to do for years anyway, which were all those book notes turned into directives that we talked about last time. So for the next three or four months, I did nothing but that. Again, like 5:00 AM till midnight, just doing that one thing. And when I'm really into my work, you can't pry me away when I'm really in the zone like that. Like, I don't want to hang out. I don't want to watch anything.

• 11:09Derek Sivers?

  I don't want to distract myself in any way. I'm just so into what I'm doing. So I think, if I think back to when I started CD Baby, it was just like a little thing like this that I thought was going to last a few months, but it ended up lasting 10 years, right? So for those 10 years, like seven days a week from 7:00 AM till midnight, I did almost nothing else but that. So sometimes a project can last for years. So the point is, I can picture that ideal world, right? Where I spend a few hours a day on each of my top three priorities. But I just get so in the zone with one thing that it feels like going against my nature to break that.

• 11:53Derek Sivers?

  And I read once that people who were happiest with their life, when interviewed at the end of their life, were the ones who had spent the most time in that state of flow, just being in the zone. So although I feel I probably should have these morning rituals and daily habits, I just don't. And knowing this, I can plan accordingly, right? Like, if I want to learn a language, it's probably not going to be by doing it two hours a day, but just total immersion.

• 12:24Tim Ferriss?

  What are you world-class at that people might not realize? Or what do your friends know you're world-class at that the rest of the world doesn't know about?

• 12:31Derek Sivers?

  I've got the world's longest attention span. I'll just sit down and do one task for like 12 hours straight, or all day for 25 days in a row, you know? I actually, I love that my kid is getting it from me by the way that we play. Like, whenever we play, I never say, "Let's go, time to go." We just do something until he's ready to move on. Like, he'll lead me to the river and just throw rocks in the water for a couple hours. And then we'll go to the ocean and build a fort out of driftwood for hours. And then draw in the sand with shells until he's sleepy. And we've always done it this way since he was, you know, like, one year old. Other families would come play on the playground for 20 or 30 minutes at a time,

• 13:16Derek Sivers?

  but we would just be there for hours with him fully immersed in some newly invented game. And what's funny is that nobody else can hang with us like this, like, not even his mom. Everyone else gets so bored. People ask if I meditate or do yoga, but nope. My daily life feels like working meditation. Even being with my kid is like meditation, as you can tell. Okay, now, we're doing the format today where we're going to open up the phone to callers. But, you know, since it's Christmas Day, phones are a little slow. Hey, there's a call.

• 13:47Speaker 04

  Hey, Derek, this is Sam Thomas Davis from Stockholm, Sweden. My question is, where are you up to with the "Do This" project? And are you going to be sharing your findings on your blog? Many thanks.

• 13:59Derek Sivers?

  Yes, definitely. In the first podcast, I said I had, like, 18 sentences. But really, I meant I have, like, 18 categories, such as how to be useful to others, how to get rich, how to like people, things like that. So altogether, I've got about 120 directives. And each one, I think, requires a little more explanation. So instead of just listing them all, I think each idea deserves its own little spotlight. Right? Like, a little page that can be linked to and shared about just that one idea instead of only the entire list. And if you want to be notified when they're ready, just get on my private email list, either by going to sivers.org/list or just email me to ask.

• 14:44Derek Sivers?

  It's [email protected]. I think they're going to be my next 120 blog posts, really. And then afterwards, I'll just post the big list with each point linking to those past posts for more information. And then, when done, I guess I'll probably make it a book.

• 15:06Speaker 05

  Hi, this is Tobin in Boulder, Colorado. And my question is, what are a few directives for sharing thoughts online in an authentic way, particularly for introverts? Thanks.

• 15:16Derek Sivers?

  Well, that's not really an introvert-extrovert thing. I think everyone is scared to show their work publicly. At least, doing it online is easier than getting up on stage. But the best book on this subject is called "Show Your Work" by Austin Kleon. You can see my notes on it at sivers.org/book. But I highly recommend just getting the book and reading the whole thing. It's awesome. As for directives, since you asked, I've got four. Number one, teach whatever you've learned immediately after learning it while you still remember what it's like to not know it. Once you get used to knowing it, you can't imagine what it's like to not know.

• 16:00Derek Sivers?

  Number two, share your work online. If your work isn't online, it basically doesn't exist. Number three, share the process and the residue of your work. People really do want to see how the sausage gets made, so become a documentarian of what you do. Number four, but release your creations sometime after completion, so once you've already moved on to the next thing. That way, when the world gives you its feedback or critique, it won't feel like it's reflecting on you, but just some work you did in your past.

• 16:41Speaker 06

  Hi, my name is Amen from Morocco, and my question is, why and how did you become a programmer?

• 16:47Derek Sivers?

  Well, for me, it was absolute necessity. I think that's the best way to learn anything. There's this story about Socrates, that a student came to him and asked, "Socrates, how do I get wisdom?" So Socrates said, "Here, come with me." And they walked down to a nearby lake. When the water was waist-high, Socrates suddenly grabbed the student's head and held it underwater. And at first, this student thought it was a joke, but then Socrates kept holding him, and he started panicking and struggling to get up, and his lungs started burning. So finally, Socrates let him up, coughing and gasping for air. And Socrates said, "When you desire wisdom as much as that next breath, well, then nothing will stop you from getting it." So I think if you want to start programming,

• 17:32Derek Sivers?

  first you have to have a problem that you need to solve. Like, you have to feel the pain of the problem first, and then go find its solution. So usually, that means just start trying to build something that you need, and so you can find out what you don't know. But also, I think it helps to learn from a well-written book that guides you through things that you didn't even know existed. Like, you search Amazon for a programming book released in the last few years, where multiple reviews say that it was good for a beginner to use. Reviews would say, "Hey, I'm a total beginner, and this one really helped me." Those are the books I gravitate towards for learning a new thing. But as for me, it wasn't until after my business, Seedy Baby, took off

• 18:17Derek Sivers?

  that I started learning programming out of necessity, because I was doing hours a day of manual labor, like copying and pasting things and processing everything by hand. So by learning to write some really simple little 20-line programs, I saved myself hundreds of hours of work. Like, the ultimate motivation. And then, as my company grew, each new thing I learned to automate would save my whole team hours a day of work. So yeah, the ultimate motivation is necessity. But now, I just love it for its own sake. I think it's fascinating, and the lifestyle suits me. I love to sit in solitude and think and make things. And I love the immediate feedback you get from it. I highly recommend it to anyone interested.

• 19:04Speaker 05

  Hi, this is Tobin in Boulder, Colorado. And my question is, what are some directives for creating relationships with people who hold interesting worldviews? Thanks.

• 19:14Derek Sivers?

  Well, you make people interesting. If you're boring, they're boring. And if you're interested, they're interesting. I've read a lot of books on people skills, and they've all been worth the time. Some of them are: How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. That's the classic. Start with that. How to Talk to Anyone by Liel Lones. How to Make People People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less by Nicholas Boothman and Power Schmoozing by Terry Mandel. They have the most awful titles, but really, every book I've ever found on the subject of people skills has been great.

• 19:54Derek Sivers?

  So, I highly recommend that you go read five different books on the subject of people skills to get you into a considerate mindset. And then, just practice with anyone. I think, start with low stakes, right? Like, you're actually, probably, a better conversationalist if you don't think that someone is a VIP. And I have a funny story about that. That, back when I was a musician, trying to get famous, I went to a music business conference, where I was trying to meet VIPs from record labels that could sign me to a record deal. It was such high stakes, and I was so nervous.

• 20:35Derek Sivers?

  But then, during a break, I went out to just go dip my feet in the pool and exhale a bit. And I was sitting next to some dude that was just doing the same thing. And so, we just started shooting the shit about that girl over there, and the silly platters of food they had laid out, and why people come to these events in the first place, stuff like that. And, after a while, he needed to go. So, he got up and he handed me his card. He said, "Yeah, nice to meet you." He gave me his card, and it turned out, that he was the Vice President of A&M Records. I was like, "Holy shit! If I'd have known, I'm sure I would have been like an uptight mosquito." So, yeah, I learned a lot about being a good friend and conversationalist from that moment.

• 21:20Derek Sivers?

  And he and I are still friends to this day, and he sent me some of my biggest clients when I started CD Baby. So, start with low stakes, and then, ideally, you know, stay with low stakes. And lastly, I think it really helps when you have something to show for yourself. You've got to have some kind of cred, because people want to meet another winner. So, whenever you're introducing yourself, definitely, don't hide your accolades. It helps to just have a little tagline that hints at the fact that you've got something going on.

• 21:55Speaker 07

  Hi Derek, this is Dave DiGiavani from Kalamazoo, Michigan in the USA. Thanks for doing the podcast with Tim. Thanks for taking this question. You've helped a lot of people make money and I'm just wondering if success in business has to be more complicated than that. I get overwhelmed reading all the, you know, there's so much content out there on how to make money, how to grow your business, how to start a business, and I'm just wondering if business needs to be more complicated than coming up with ideas on how to help other people succeed. Thank you.

• 22:27Derek Sivers?

  Well, let's talk about two things: simple versus complicated and easy versus hard. So, look at running. If you talk with people who hate running, you'll hear them say, "Ugh, first you have to get your running clothes, then you get dressed, and then you gotta put on your shoes, and you gotta lace them up just right. Well, then you gotta stretch, and then you gotta warm up. Then afterwards, you need to cool down, and you need to shower. It's such a pain." But if you talk with people that love running, they'll say, "Yeah, you just pop out for a quick run." And if you ask them about the steps involved, they'll say, "There's just one. You know, you just run."

• 23:06Derek Sivers?

  So, knowing that we have this human nature to think of things we like as simple and things we don't as complicated, well, you can use this to deliberately simplify how you think of something you're avoiding, making it more appealing. So, an ultra marathon is simple. You just run 100 miles to the end. But that doesn't mean it's easy, right? So, success in business can be simple. You just find a need that people are proving they're willing to pay for, and then find a profitable way to solve that need for them. But it doesn't mean it's easy. So, what you have to do is notice in your mind when your complications are holding you

• 23:50Derek Sivers?

  back, and then turn the dial towards simplicity in your mind. So, you just jump out the door and start running. But then notice in your results when your simplified approach might be holding you back, right? Like perhaps you're using only one tool in your toolbox and you need to learn others. And as for all the business advice out there, well, you know, if information was the answer, then we'd all be billionaires with perfect abs. So really, you, and yeah, you, listening to this, most of you probably just need to shut that shit off, put your blinders on and get out the door and start running, metaphorically speaking, that is.

• 24:32Speaker 08

  This is Matt in Toronto, Canada. And my question is, on the homepage of sivers.org and during your podcast with Tim, you mentioned that your personality type is INTJ. How has knowing your type affected your life? And has it played a role in any major life decision?

• 24:50Derek Sivers?

  To me, it doesn't really matter much. I think it's just shorthand for a basic description of my preferences. So I could write a few paragraphs about how I love solitude and I love making systems, or I could just link to the INTJ description because I think it says it pretty well. But I think the Myers-Briggs are kind of like, it's like we made 16 little clubs, like Hufflepuff, Gryffindor, Ravenclaw. So because of these Myers-Briggs types, you can see someone else and say, oh, hey, you're a Ravenclaw too. I've met a few other INTJs who contact me because I have it right there in my self-definition.

• 25:31Derek Sivers?

  And we always seem to get along really well. I think it's cool. Now, as for affecting my life, well, I found that when I stopped going against my introvert nature and instead just decided to shape my life around it, it made me very happy. Because before that, I used to do a lot of really extroverted things, thinking that I had to. But now I work alone instead of around others, and I say no to almost all big group things and instead spend really good one-on-one time with other people. And I'm happier than ever. I really think it's one of the best changes I ever made in my life.

• 26:14Speaker 05

  Hi, this is Tobin in Boulder, Colorado. And my question is, what should someone ask to determine their own utopia? Thanks.

• 26:22Derek Sivers?

  First, ask yourself, is this in theory or in practice? Like, have you proven from your experience that this is really what works best for you? Whatever idea you have, you have to challenge it. You need to argue against it, because there are so many things that seem great in theory. Right? Like, for example, say you're living in a little apartment in a noisy city. And so you think that you'd be happy if only you had a big place out in the silent country. And so you do it. You splurge, you buy a place, or you sign a year-long lease. And then you move out to the country and, uh-oh. After two months, you realize that you missed too many things about the big city.

• 27:06Derek Sivers?

  You made the wrong prediction. And it happens the other way, too, right? Like, people moving from the quiet burbs to the big city. Or somebody who's an employee that thinks they'd just be happy if they could quit their job and start their own business. And oops, doesn't always work out like that. So my recommendation is to do little tests. Like, try a few months of living the life you think you want, but leave yourself an exit plan, being open to the chance, the big chance, that you might not like it after actually trying it. The best book about this subject is Stumbling on Happiness by Daniel Gilbert. His recommendation is to talk to a few people that are currently where you think you want

• 27:51Derek Sivers?

  to be, and ask them for the pros and cons. And then trust their opinions, since they're right in it, not just remembering or imagining.

• 28:03Speaker 09

  This is James McGill from Sligo, Ireland. And my question is, how do you define success? And what habits or skills are most important to living a successful life? Thanks.

• 28:15Derek Sivers?

  Okay, well, first, let's define success. Ask yourself if you think Robin Williams and Philip Seymour Hoffman were successful actors. I think it's a tough call. Like, my first reaction is yes, but the more I think about it, my answer moves halfway towards no. As a different example, think of someone you know who that you'd consider be like the definition of a total loser. And now you give that person a million dollars. Are they now a winner? Of course not. And that sounds like a contrived example, but a lot of fame and fortune is dropped into the lap of people who were just the right face in the right place at the right time,

• 28:57Derek Sivers?

  but are actually miserable, awful people by any definition. So the more you think it through, the more you realize that you have to define success first by your inner game, not some outside measure of money or fame, right? Mastering yourself, your mind and your actions. But now, if you only master yourself and you don't help anyone else, well, then we'd call you happy, but like nobody would define you as successful. So the very definition of success must include how much you helped others. And I'll bet that if you helped thousands of people, even if you didn't ultimately profit from it, but you were personally miserable,

• 29:42Derek Sivers?

  well, we might still call you successful because you helped others, right? So the point is, if you want to be undeniably successful, you need to both master yourself and help others. Don't focus on the money or the fame. The real success is mastering your emotions and actions and actually helping lots of people. So the definition. But now you asked, what habits or skills are most important to living a successful life? Well, by this definition, habits and skills. Number one, the skill and habit of managing your state and your emotional reactions and actions. Number two,

• 30:26Derek Sivers?

  knowing what people need in general and what you need in particular. Number three, people's skills. How to see things from the other person's point of view and how to communicate from their point of view. And number four, the ability to focus, learn, practice and apply what you learn. If you can do those four things, you can do anything. You can first be happy without depending on anyone or anything in particular, and then you can understand what people need, learn how to provide it and make sure they know it.

• 31:05Speaker 10

  Hi, this is James in New Zealand, and my question is: If you instantly lost all your resources, money, contacts, etc., had no possessions except the clothes you're wearing right now and a thousand dollars, and look like a completely different person, i.e. no one would recognize you, what steps would you take to become successful?

• 31:21Derek Sivers?

  Well, notice how we all assume that when you say "become successful", you really mean "get rich", but as we covered in the last question, money is almost moot in what it means to be successful. So, if you took absolutely everything away from me, I'd still be successful because I know how to be happy, how to be considerate, how to be useful, and how to learn. And it sounds like I'm being Mr. New Age Positivity, but it's really not. This was learned the hard way. I spent years with very little, with just a few hundred dollars in the bank, and now I've spent years with millions in the bank. And I've found that having millions gives you a nice sense of security,

• 32:07Derek Sivers?

  but when I look at my daily life, I'm not even using the money. So here's what actually makes me happy: A quiet little place to live alone, a working laptop, access to the internet and books, enough money for food, my good health, and, let's say, two good friends. And everything past that is kinda bullshit. So if I had a thousand dollars and these clothes, I'd already be successful because I'm successful at thinking, learning, and thriving, and that's all I need to be happy. Now, what would I do? If you actually wanna know the actions, like if that really happened, what would I do? Well, I'd just go get any old job.

• 32:51Derek Sivers?

  I'd find an old, used laptop for a hundred bucks and install Linux on it. I'd go get a teacup and some tea, and I would get back to reading, learning, writing, thinking, and sharing what I've learned. Because to me, that's success. My only expensive qualification is that I like to live alone, so I'd probably use my programming skills in return for rent so I could have my own place at first. But I think even if I had no skills at all, like if you put me a few hundred years into the past or future, well, I know how to focus, learn, and practice. So there are these skills, you know, like sales and marketing, that everyone always needs help with. So now if you're talking about how to make a lot of money,

• 33:36Derek Sivers?

  well, I'd probably pick almost any of the paths online that are in these programs that are out there about like, how to make a lot of money, but the ones that aren't like a long shot to mega millions, but the ones that are really just proven strategies on how to pick a business and optimize it. I think it's kind of like diet and exercise plans, right? Where most of them work well enough if you actually follow through and do what they say, and not just half ass it, but really do it all the way. So any of those would work.

• 34:09Tim Ferriss?

  What is something you believe that other people think is insane?

• 34:12Derek Sivers?

  Oh, that's easy. I've got a lot of unpopular opinions. I believe alcohol tastes bad, and so do olives. I've never tried coffee, but I don't like the smell. I believe all audiobooks should be read and recorded by people from Iceland, because they've got the best accent. I believe it would be wonderful to move to a new country every six months for the rest of my life. I believe you shouldn't start a business unless people are asking you to. I believe I'm below average. It's a deliberate cultivated belief to compensate for our tendency to think we're above average. I believe the movie Scott Pilgrim is a masterpiece. I believe that music and people don't mix,

• 34:54Derek Sivers?

  that music should be appreciated alone without seeing or knowing who the musicians are, and without other people around. So just listening to music for its own sake, not listening to the people around you, and not filtered through what you know about the musician's personal life. I believe it's unwise to prioritize lifestyle design, because it's dangerously self-centered, and you're rewarded most in life for keeping your focus on being useful to others. I believe loyalty is silly, that we should constantly try to be disloyal, and only be loyal to the rare person, place, or idea that we're just unable to be disloyal to. I believe it's good to feel smug.

• 35:38Derek Sivers?

  It means you're proud of yourself, which means you're living according to your beliefs.

• 35:59Tim Ferriss?

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• 36:43Tim Ferriss?

  You can also look up the Tim Ferriss Effect Podcast Edition to see some of their actual numbers. And they've added chinos. So, I always thought of chinos as these horribly cheesy, preppy, khaki pants, but no, I was wrong. These gray pants, I am now in the Bahamas, and I wore them in New York, then in LA, then here, three different climates, perfect for all three, and wore them on the airplane and I could wear them to a fancy dinner the very next night, and they looked like they'd been ironed. They are awesome. Probably the most comfortable now dress pants that I own. So, Mizzen and Maine, they're killing it. Easy to take care of. You can look great, feel great. And that's about it. So, you should check these things out. They're great.

• 37:26Tim Ferriss?

  They also make fantastic holiday gifts for your loved ones. Check it out, 4hourworkweek.com/shirts, all spelled out, 4hourworkweek.com/shirts.