Going to the Source of L.A.'s Water

Throughline associate producer Anya Steinberg talks to supervising senior editor Julie Caine about her reporting trip to Owens Valley in northeastern California for the episode, "Water in the West," https://n.pr/3CjfOK3 about the creation of—and controversy over—the Los Angeles aqueduct. This normally would be a bonus episode just for Throughline+ listeners. With this being the season of giving, we're sharing this one with everyone! To access all of Throughline's bonus episodes, listen to every episode sponsor-free, and support public radio, sign up for Throughline+ at plus.npr.org/throughline See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:26Speaker 01

  Hey, everybody. It's Julie Caine. I'm the showrunner and one of the editors on Throughline. And we're going to do something kind of special today. In the spirit of giving, we want to give you a preview of our monthly bonus episodes, our plus episodes. Usually, these are just for our Throughline Plus supporters because we want to give them a little bit extra for their support. And we're so grateful. Thank you so much if you're already a plus listener. But if you aren't a plus supporter yet, we hope you'll consider signing up. It supports all our work at NPR and Throughline. You get these bonus episodes where you get to hear more about us and how we make the

• 1:08Speaker 01

  show, and you get to listen to every episode without ads. So if you're interested, go to plus.npr.org to find out more. Okay, so all of that said, let's get on to the episode. I am here with the fabulous Throughline producer, Anya Steinberg. Hi, Anya.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  Hi, Julie.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  How's it going?

• 1:31Speaker 02

  It's going good. I'm here in rainy Seattle, talking to you.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Oh, nice. Well, you know, we're doing this kind of behind the scenes conversation, which I love to do because so much goes into all of our episodes. And let's talk about this episode that you pitched, reported, called Water in the West.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  What was that? Tell me a little bit about what that is.

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. This is perfect, actually, because, I mean, I mentioned it's rainy. We're going to be going back in my mind to sunny, beautiful California, which is where this story takes place. And basically, this story that I pitched is the story of what happened when Los Angeles decided to build an aqueduct from this place called the Owens Valley all the way to LA. The LA aqueduct is made up of like, some open channels. Lined with concrete, there's some large pipes as a part of it. It looks different in different places, but the whole goal is to move water from a place that has it to a place that doesn't. And they did that because they needed water to make this city into the metropolis it is today.

• 2:38Speaker 03

  Are you going to leave this water here for 5,000 people in this, you know, isolated mountain valley? Or are you going to let it go to Los Angeles where 100,000 or 200,000 people are going to make use of it? And we're going to have a metropolis. Which would you choose? If your principle is utilitarianism, using a resource for the most people for the most good, then it's an easy call to say, Los Angeles, you're going to get the water. And so the Owens Valley, we're told, sorry, folks, more people down there, they have the money, they own the water already. We are going to permit LA to do this. And so that's what happened.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  But when they did that, it had unintended consequences on like a variety of levels, you know? It made people in the valley mad. It affected the environment. There's all this kind of drama that plays out after the aqueduct opens. So that's what this episode is about.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  And you know, when you first started talking to me about this, what I realized is my knowledge of the LA aqueduct kind of comes from this 1974 Roman Polanski movie called Chinatown.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Yes, a classic.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  It really is. But you know, that's fictionalized, but it's fictionalized around a lot of the story of LA kind of moving from a dusty, small town to becoming this like paradise.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. I think you can't like understate how much the aqueduct changed LA. Like you said, it basically went from like this dusty frontier town with a couple thousand people living there to this enormous city, the basis of Hollywood, kind of the epitome of the American dream. And that is all because of the water that the aqueduct brought.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Got it. And so usually the story, as far as like what I would say common knowledge might be around it, is usually told from the perspective of Los Angeles. So like the movie Chinatown, like a lot of other things, Cadillac Desert, other kind of reporting around this. But you wanted to tell this story from a different perspective. So could you just talk to me a little bit about how you decided to do that and the trip that it ended up taking you on?

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, like you said, this is not a new story. There's already been a lot done about it. There's been fictional and non-fictional documentaries made about this. So when I was thinking about how this episode was going to work and how to through-lineify this story, I

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Through-lineify, I love that.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  I really wanted to go somewhere new and I wanted to meet new kinds of people. And I think the story a lot of times is told from LA's point of view, and it's also told from Los Angeles. Like, what did the aqueduct bring to Los Angeles? What did the people in Los Angeles think of it? Who were the people in Los Angeles that made it happen? And I wanted to refocus that on to like, what did this take away from the place where the water came from? And what happened there? How did people react? And how were their lives changed by this event? And so luckily, I got the chance to go there, which I think was really, really important, too. I've done a couple of reporting trips for the show. It's always nice when you have these place-based stories to be able to feel the place that

• 5:58Speaker 02

  you're going to be storytelling about, be able to like, breathe the air, hear the sounds, like, meet the people who live there, and just get a sense of like, the culture, the vibes, what's happening. And I think for this story, like,

• 6:14Speaker 02

  You know, the history is so lived in the present in the Owens Valley. Like, you can really see the effects of the history that this episode is about, and you can also, like, feel it when you talk to people who live there, you know? Like, a huge consequence of this aqueduct building is that the L.A. Department of Water and Power owns a lot of the land in the valley. And like, there's signs everywhere that say, you know, no trespassing. This is L A D W P property. There's L A D W P trucks everywhere. A lot of the people in the valley work for L A D W P. And a lot of the people in the valley, like I mentioned, have opinions about the aqueduct in the present day. They have feelings about it. There's a lot of emotion.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Like, I think I was surprised by how many people there were brought to tears when they were talking to me about this story and like what it meant to them, so.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  And, you know, the aqueduct opened in 1913, is that right? And here we are in 2024, and it's still operational. This is still where L.A. gets a lot of its water from. It's, this is about like 250 miles from L.A., right?

• 7:26Speaker 02

  233, to be precise.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  By aqueduct, that's how long the aqueduct is, yeah.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  And so, I mean, it's really interesting to think about, like, this is still there, first of all, and that this is still a living story. Not all history is, not everything we tell is contemporary and still happening. But this one really is, so that's really, really interesting. So, okay, so you drove, where did you go to, to tell the story?

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Well, I, I started in the Bay Area in Oakland, and I drove the seven hours on paper to the Owens Valley. And I say on paper because I'm a really slow driver, so it actually took me like 10. That's embarrassing to admit, but everyone who knows me knows that I'm a grandma behind the wheel. So I took my time. And it's one of the most beautiful drives I've ever done in my life. The Owens Valley is, it's in eastern California. It's bordered by the Sierra Nevada Mountains. It's very close to Yosemite. It's just gorgeous and you basically drive through Yosemite to get there. So the roads are extremely hilly, very twisty, very turny.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  There were a lot of points that I had to pull over and just like breathe for a second. So it's a bit precarious, but it was also gorgeous. And you pass through just a lot of classic California forests, cool mountain air, beautiful streams.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  And so all that water is snow melt, basically from the mountains, right? From the Sierra Mountains.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Yes, and I was there in the late spring. So I feel like it was a time when the snow melt was just starting to melt.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Ah, interesting. I didn't think about that.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  So you can kind of get a sense probably from your drive, just like what kind of rugged terrain, you know, they were looking at in nineteen.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Right, and I'm driving a car on roads and they were building the aqueduct using mule powered machinery.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  So it is crazy to think.

• 9:38Speaker 04

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• 11:02Speaker 01

  About.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  So, OK, so let's look at some of the people that you met, especially in the Owens Valley. So, but one of the people I think you met is a man named Noah Williams. So can you just talk to me a little bit about how you connected with him in the first place? What it was like to to hang out with him? And what were your impressions of the landscape walking around with him?

• 11:28Speaker 02

  So I met Noah at an event that I went to in the valley. This was my first day there. And it was an event being hosted by something called the Owens Valley Indian Water Commission. And a big piece of the contemporary story of the valley is that, you know, indigenous people have lived in the valley for thousands of years. And when the aqueduct was built, it was at this very complicated time in American history for native people. And without going into all of the details, of which there are many, and you can listen to the episode to find out, the aqueduct was a raw deal for a lot of the valley's indigenous people, the Paiute people, the Shoshone people. And they still live there today. There are several reservations in the valley,

• 12:13Speaker 02

  and they still have a lot of negotiating that they want to do with LADWP. They believe that their water rights are not being respected in the modern day. They believe they are owed more from LADWP. And they believe LADWP is doing environmental harm to the valley through the operation of the Los Angeles Aqueduct. So I was at an event hosted by this commission to basically raise awareness for residents of LA about the LA Aqueduct and the history. So they invite like groups of people from Los Angeles to come on like a weekend long retreat. And they walk around, they have presentations. They let people experience the valley and where their water comes from in this way that they have never experienced before.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  So it was a really cool event, and that's where I met Noah, because he was there giving some talks, because he's the water program coordinator for the Big PINE Paiute Tribe, so.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  And what was it like for you to sort of be there after you'd been researching?

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Reading and watching documentaries, et cetera, et cetera. And then you're actually in the place.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I had arrived in the dark after my 10 hour drive. Driving to this event in the morning was kind of my first glimpse of the valley in its totality. And it was just breathtaking. I mean, there's, there's like one major highway that runs through the whole thing. And then all around you is just this vast expanse of like beauty. I don't know what, how else to put it, but there's mountains on all sides with these huge jagged, snow-covered peaks. There's like desert scrub vegetation, which there's not a lot of buildings because Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, like I said, owns a lot of the land and they keep it undeveloped because

• 14:02Speaker 02

  they're not really interested in the land. They're more interested in the water rights associated with the land. So it's essentially just like mostly empty of buildings. So you can see all around you. And when I got to this event and I met Noah, off the bat, he was just very, very intently focused on like telling me his story and the story of the valley and the story of his people. And so I, I mean, I spent like an hour with him that day, just grilling him on this hike that we went on. Which kudos to him because hiking and talking is a whole other can of worms and he was a very good sport about that. So I, I met, I met him on this hike and then we arranged

• 14:46Speaker 02

  to meet up later that week so that he could show me some traces of, of his ancestors, these, these ancient irrigation ditches that exist all over the valley that Paiute and Shoshone people used to irrigate the valley before the Los Angeles aqueduct existed.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  It's really interesting to me to think about like that water, that resource has been manipulated by human beings for a long time. So to see like, how was it used?

• 15:16Speaker 01

  By native people and how is it being used now by the city of Los Angeles? It's really interesting to sort of like compare and just see like what's some of the technology that's used, what is it? And what is it that you see in the landscape? Once you know what you're looking for.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  And that was exactly my experience. I went on this hike with him and I was being skeptical about what I would see. And at first on the hike, I I honestly didn't get it. He kept pointing out these things and he was like, this is a ditch. And I was like, what are we looking at? Like, I don't really, I kept having to have him like describe or like literally go stand where he was talking about like, this is the middle of the ditch. And I was like, okay, I think I see it. But as we kept going on this walk, like it started to click into place for me. And I could see like these ditches are are sometimes very deep and well preserved. And sometimes they're just like this faint whisper on on the land almost, which is

• 16:22Speaker 02

  almost cooler to me that he can pick this out and that this has been mapped out by him and others from the tribe. But it was just crazy to see like, once the ditch starts to like pop out of the landscape at you, how they like turn and swoop, the kind of the engineering that was created to move the water without any sort of like pumping power machinery. It's very, it is in a way reminiscent of the LA Aqueduct itself, because the LA Aqueduct is runs on on gravity, there's no pumps. So I feel like similar ideas were going on when the Paiute and Shoshone people designed their irrigation ditches. As a former environmental science major in college, I was really like nerding out

• 17:05Speaker 02

  about how they manipulated and used this water in a way that like changed the landscape to their betterment and also like fed into the natural water cycle of the valley, you know? The water, the snow would melt off the mountains and run through these ditches across the valley. And all the while, they're irrigating the land. So there's, it's, it's not like. Irrigation like we grow corn in these massive rows. It was more just like soaking water into various parts of the land that flora and fauna would grow, trees, grasses, and animals would come, animals that you could eat, like plants that you could eat would grow. And then, you know, the water soaks through the ground and recharges the water table. And so that is like how the water cycle works. It cycles through the landscape.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  So it was very, very cool to see that in action. And then to also see in the modern day and in the absence of that system and in the presence of a system where the LA Aqueduct is taking water out of the valley, never to return, like how that has changed what the landscape looks like. You know, it's dry, it's dusty, it's desert-y. It was hard to imagine what Noah was talking about when he was describing what it would have looked like in the past.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  And so you, there's another person there that you hung out with. Tell me a little bit about Richard Patashin.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Richard, he, he was one of my favorite people that I met. He's just so kooky, so himself, very like California hippie character. When I met him, he rolled up in this big red pickup truck with all these bumper stickers on the back. Like, one of them I remember seeing was LA sucks, the Owens Valley dry.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Which, um, I thought was funny. And he was wearing this like long sleeve tie dye shirt that said furry hippie on it. He has like kind of shoulder length white hair. That's a little bit all over the place. And the kind of person that he is, is just the kind of person that's very chatty, can talk your ear off. And actually, when we were like in the parking lot, getting ready to leave, he like struck up this conversation with these other people in the parking lot. And we just stood there for 10 minutes. I was checking my watch, like, are we gonna get out on the road? And he's talking their ear off about Owens Valley this, Owens Valley that, you should go here. It was just a cute experience.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  And what does he do? Why were you talking to him?

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Uh, he's a longtime resident of the valley. And this history of the aqueduct is like a little bit of a passion project of his. Like, he showed up with a stack of books and they had all of these sticky notes sticking out of them, and they were just books about the valley's history and about the aqueduct's history. And he was like using them to reference pictures and notes and things while we were talking. So this is definitely something he cares about. And he has researched for a long time, which is why I wanted to talk to him.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  So with both Noah and Richard, you were out in the field in their, you know, in their valley. And, you know, you went on sort of, I don't know if I would call them adventures, but you went.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  You went on, I mean, maybe you went on.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  They were, they were adventures.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  Especially with Richard.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, tell me about that.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, we, a little bit of this is in the episode, but he, we had this grand plan to go see like the main sites of the aqueduct, the place where it begins, and a couple of historical sites along the way. And a lot of these sites are located down these service roads because obviously the aqueduct is still in operation. So LADWP uses these service roads. And we turn onto them, it's very bumpy dirt gravel road, and we very quickly come up against this fence that is seemingly locked. And an outtake from the episode is just the the expletives that Richard let out when he thought that our whole day was, might be

• 20:57Speaker 02

  foiled by this padlocked fence. But it turns out there was no lock on it. It was just a chain wrapped around the fence. So we just unwrapped the chain and shrugged our shoulders and drove through. And that was how we ended up at the place where the Los Angeles aqueduct begins, also known as the aqueduct intake.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  I mean, this is something you and I talked about a lot as we were working on this and like conceptualizing it, like, what is this about? What is it really about? And what is it really, really about?

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Really, really, really about.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  And I know one of the things that we talked about is this idea of that Roosevelt sort of, you know, we have to make decisions based on the greatest good for the greatest member.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  How do you think about the idea of the greatest good for the greatest member?

• 21:45Speaker 02

  I think it's an extremely complex moral question. I think you and I came into this episode kind of from different viewpoints. You know, I actually appreciated that because I think that tension like helped shape the episode where we were both trying to talk to each other about this and talk through what we thought of this like moral question. And that kind of push and pull is is really at the heart of the episode. But I think the idea of the greatest good for the greatest number is a question that like no matter where we live in the US, you're going to have to face at some point in the future. I mean, not to be a like merchant of doom and gloom, but climate change exists. And as you know, these effects worsen or intensify, I think people will be asking a lot of questions

• 22:30Speaker 02

  about like, how do we allocate the limited resources we have to do good? And is it right to be able to take from one place to give to another? I think a lot of people in the Owens Valley expressed to me that they felt like a water colony, you know, a colony of Los Angeles, like something that only existed to be extracted from. And I think that that is like the flip side of the greatest good for the greatest number. Because on one hand, when you have need and you want to address that need, I think there's very real like humanitarian reasons why we should help people. And sometimes taking resources from one place to the other is the way to do that.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  But that always has an effect downstream.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Pardon my pun.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  But yeah, so if anything, working on this episode made me more confused about what I think of that sentiment. But it is a really interesting way to engage with this moral question that we're all going to be grappling with and a lot of places outside of California already do in different ways.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love when our episodes get into a kind of philosophical place, which a lot of the times that's what's happening behind the scenes, dear listeners, is we're like, okay, we're going to tell the story about the LA Aqueduct. Why are we doing it? Why now? What's different about the way we're going to tell this story? Is there anything that like really stood out an aha moment you had while you were reporting?

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Well, to go back to Richard, I was very tired at this point. I had met up with other people before Richard. I'd been working for 10 hours at that point, just talking. So I was kind of like tapped out, ready to go back to the car. And Richard stopped me. We were at this site called the Alabama Gates, where in the 1920s, the residents of the valley occupied the gates for four days and shut off the water supply to the LA Aqueduct, or diverted the LA Aqueduct to run into the valley. So we were at the Alabama Gates and he was like, can you turn on your tape recorder again? I have something else to say. And then he just delivered this very beautiful soliloquy to me of like, kind of these very emotional reflections that I feel like,

• 24:49Speaker 02

  you know, he spent decades thinking about this issue and living here. And a lot of it, I don't think, made it into the episode, which is why it's the perfect thing to talk about now. But he was talking a lot about like, the humanity of everybody involved, the decisions that people were making, the secret fears and hopes that they were driven by, and how that all gets entangled together to create history.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Does it ever make you emotional to like, stand at these sites and just think about it?

• 25:19Speaker 06

  Oh yeah, terribly so, yeah. But yeah, it's really, really emotional because once you've invested a great deal of your time and effort in researching, you know, a story like this and shared it with the public. Yeah, I feel, I get really emotional. And I think about not just the men and the women who were here at the gates, but I think about everybody. It gets me really emotional to think about Eaton and Mulholland, President Roosevelt, J.D. Lippincott, you know, all the, all the key figures. I feel, I always get emotional when I talk about the Watersons too.

• 26:01Speaker 06

  And again, talk about self-interest and greed and tremendous violations of trust, all based on self-interest and greed. And, you know, the interest of Los Angeles, a growing city.

• 26:18Speaker 06

  And not being able to really feel

• 26:24Speaker 06

  the heart and soul of what was happening here.

• 26:28Speaker 06

  It's just, uh...

• 26:32Speaker 06

  What a story.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  I just thought that was beautiful. It almost brought me to tears and he was, he was getting very emotional about it, too, in the moment. So I think about that a lot. And I think that's something that we try and tease out in every episode that we make, whether it's about, you know, the LA Aqueduct, or the history of smell, or whatever. It's just the humanity at the center of, of history. Because in the, at the end of the day, it's, it's people facing decisions in the past that we may have to make again in the future, or decisions we may have never fathomed of making. And it's the core of every history.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  That is, I love hearing that, Anya. I think that's just a perfect place to, to end our conversation. And it was, it's really, was really great working on this episode with you.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Ditto.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  It is working on many things with you.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  Day in and day out.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Okay, well, everybody, really, thanks a lot for listening to this with us. And if you want to hear more of these really cool bonus episodes, behind the scenes, how did we make this, what's some tape we didn't play for you, kind of episodes, sponsor free, meaning no ads, and you want to just support more work like this, please consider signing up for Throughline Plus. You can find out more at plus.npr.org. And we'll be back with another bonus episode just for Throughline Plus supporters next month. Until then, thanks a lot, and have a good one.

• 28:20Speaker 04

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