Making It Without Losing It: How to Stay Motivated in a World Where We Are Never Done With Entrepreneurial Success Story, Jess Ekstrom + How Jess Ekstrom Scaled, HeadBandsOfHope.com Reached the World With Her Product

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• 0:00Speaker 00

  You could be anywhere doing a lot of different things, but you chose to be here.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Some shows don't need a celebrity narrator to introduce the show, but this show does. In a world filled with endless opportunities, why would two men who have built 13 multimillion dollar businesses altruistically invest five hours per day to teach you the best practice business systems and moves that you can use? Because they believe in you and they have a lot of time on their hands. They started from the bottom, now they're here. It's the Thrive Time Show starring the former US Small Business Administration's Entrepreneur of the Year, Clay Clark, and the entrepreneur trapped inside an optometrist's body, Dr. Robert Zuner.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Two men, eight kids, co-created by two different women, 13 multimillion dollar businesses.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  We started from the bottom, now we're here. We started from the bottom and we'll show you how to get here. Started from the bottom, now we're here. We started from the bottom, now we're here.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  Started from the bottom, now we're at the top. Teaching you the systems to get what we got. Colton Dixon's on the hooks. I break down the books. Z is bringing some wisdom and the good looks. As the father of five, that's why I'm alive. So if you see my wife and kids, please tell them hi. It's the C and Z up on your radio. And now three, two, one, here we go.

• 1:50Speaker 03

  Well, folks, on today's show, we're talking about making it without losing it. What? Yes, making it without losing it. How is it possible to achieve success without, what, losing your mind? I'm not, folks, there's a lot to unpack on today's show. And today's guest is a woman who really knows her craft. She knows a lot about achieving success without it making your head explode, or at least that's what I believe. Jess Extram, welcome to the Thrive Time Show. How are you?

• 2:15Speaker 04

  Good. Head hasn't exploded yet, so here we are.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  So I gotta ask you, you know, a lot of our listeners maybe aren't as familiar with your background as I am, having looked you up. Could you share with people kind of your background? Maybe a quick snapshot from birth to here? What say you?

• 2:36Speaker 04

  Well, let's see, that's a big question. I would say right now, in this season of life, I have a two and a three year old. So life is life and we're in Raleigh, North Carolina. And you know, my story kind of began when I was in college. I was interning at MakeWish. I saw a lot of kids that were losing their hair to chemotherapy, being offered wigs and hats. And a lot of them wanted to wear headbands. And I just thought it was such a cool gesture of confidence that they wanted to wear headbands. And I looked up, are there any companies, businesses, organizations out there providing headbands to kids with cancer? The answer was no. And I think that that's kind of a moment in your life when you're looking for something

• 3:20Speaker 04

  that you can't find, you have to decide, well, am I the one to create it? So I took it as a yes. I started a company called Headbands of Hope for every headband sold. We donate one to a child with an illness. And that went on to do some really amazing things, donating millions of headbands all over the world, doing headbands for the NBA, the WNBA. And that led me to public speaking. I do, I started speaking just to spread the word around the business. And then that turned into a business of itself. And now Headbands of Hope got acquired and I help women develop keynotes and land on stages through my company, Mic Drop Workshop. And so that's, that's the TLDR, as the kids say.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  Now, I, so much to unpack there, and I don't want to be negative or dark or take it to a weird place, but I did want to share, you know, I believe I have, if I have this right, your uncle was Bernie Madoff and the Bernie Madoff. And I don't want to link you to that, but I think it's important to address it or at least bring it up. What was that like having Bernie Madoff as, as an uncle?

• 4:27Speaker 04

  Not fun, Clay. Not fun, but you know, he's my mom's uncle. And so I was not super connected to him, but I just remember the day, you know, in high school, when I found all of this out, not just my family losing their money and going into this storm of media, but just thousands of innocent people. And, but I think I was young enough, I was old enough to know this was catastrophic. But I think I was young enough to be pretty ignorant and naive and be a bit of a, I don't know if journalist is the right word, but curious in the matter.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  And that is what kind of led me to do some exploration, I think, around, I don't know if I was looking for answers of why or how, but led me to visit him, which is when I learned a story that kind of catapulted the, the book for Making It Without Losing It, where I asked him, you know, how did he do this or why did he do it? And I thought he would give me an answer that, quite frankly, I wouldn't understand, you know, about the stock market or something I wouldn't get. But he told me that this crime didn't start when he was, made his first bad investment. It started when he was a kid in Brooklyn. None of the other kids would play with him. So he started playing, he started paying them in nickels to play with him.

• 5:58Speaker 04

  He said, that's when I learned that admiration can be bought. And then it just never stopped. And I think this is such an extreme case, but we can all, we can all relate to the feeling of just wanting to belong and wanting to be liked. And sometimes it's at a deep cost. And so how do we kind of stay true to what we want for ourselves without getting lost along the way? It was the biggest cautionary tale I could get at that age.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  So he was, he just, he's explaining to you that he, as a young kid, was paying people money to hang out with him as a young kid or for adoration, for friendship. And then this just kept growing and growing and growing into the largest Ponzi scheme in American history? Or when did it ramp up as you began to research and talk to him? Like, when did it get, or maybe it always was ramped up? I don't know. When did it become the biggest Ponzi scheme in America?

• 6:56Speaker 04

  You know, I don't have that answer. I think that the conversations I did have with him didn't get into the tactics. And I probably wouldn't have known what I was listening to anyway, but it was really just the human side of it and not, not at all excusing what he did, but recognizing that, you know, at some point we're all chasing, like just wanting to, to be liked.

• 7:28Speaker 03

  And so how did that story impact you? Like with your career, because you're an entrepreneur, you're having big success. How did you, or what did you take away from hearing his story where you thought to yourself, note to self, don't start largest Ponzi scheme in American history? Note to self, don't, I mean, what, did you learn anything from that that has shaped you directly?

• 7:51Speaker 04

  You know, I run something called, on myself, called the Purpose Test. And it's where I look at what I'm chasing, whatever it might be, whether it's like a number in my business or a certain achievement that I want to hit. And then I ask myself, if I got this, let's say I did, I hit the number, I got the achievement, but nobody knew it was me, I had to remain anonymous, would I still do it? And I have people that I speak to run this test and like, look at the thing that you're chasing and audit it. And if I wouldn't still go after it, if I had to remain anonymous, and it's probably a sign that I'm motivated by something else. And I think this moment taught me that.

• 8:33Speaker 04

  And I think that looking at that time, not to say I will ever, you know, be grateful for it, but I would say it's a turning point in my life and a lot of my family's lives look a lot differently because of it.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Now, I've got a couple of questions related to your book, kind of shifting gears here. The book again, Making It Without Losing, and I'll put it up on the screen here in just a moment. Can you talk in your book about, in your book, I understand that you talk about how our past drives our definition of success? Could you talk about in the book, where you go with that concept?

• 9:12Speaker 04

  I think that when I was little, you know, I saw my parents, my dad quit his job one day, turned our upstairs bathroom into his office to start a business. This was before, you know, work from home was like widely happening. And, you know, I saw them building their version of success, whether it was something that I wanted or something that I didn't. And I think for a long time, we're just feeding our own version of success based on what we've seen, whether that's from our parents or what we were told in school, growing up of like, get a job, do this, you know, white picket fence, American dream, whatever it might be. And then we have a choice at some point in our life, whether we want to continue to...

• 9:56Speaker 04

  Build our life based off of that old definition, what is still true, what isn't? And then what do we want? Where do we want to go from here? And so I think there was

• 10:09Speaker 04

  information that I think we continue to gather. And then at some point we have to audit, is this really what I want? Or am I just building this based on what I thought success was growing up?

• 10:21Speaker 03

  Where do you, because you talk to large audiences, you talk to men and women. Where do people get it wrong by default as it relates to the pursuit of success?

• 10:33Speaker 04

  You know, I think that there's something called the post-achievement letdown, where we have a specific date on our calendar, a presentation that we're going to give, a, you know, award that we're going to get, maybe a raise that we're going to have. Retirement, that's a big one, where we think that, okay, this, once I get this thing, then I'll be able to be happy, then I'll feel satisfied, then I'll feel successful. And then we know, we've hit it, maybe it was a number of podcast downloads for you, Clay, or like a book hitting a bestseller for me. And then the goalpost keeps moving, the progress bar keeps extending, and you're back to phase one. So this post-achievement letdown has been scientific.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  Michael Phelps has talked about it, Simone Biles has talked about it in the Olympics, where you finally get the thing, or go to the place, do the thing that you've been like so desperately thinking is going to be the thing that makes you feel a certain way. Then it happens, and you have this huge letdown because you realize no single achievement is going to solve all your problems, or is going to help you relax. So I call that the arrival trap, where we have fixate on a specific thing that is going to allow us to be ourselves, or let us relax. So I think that one shift that we can make is, instead of being in this arrival trap, like be in the arrived mindset.

• 11:57Speaker 04

  What is, be curious about who you can become along the way, without fixating on a singular outcome to define you. That's something that I see a lot in myself, and a lot in people, where it's just, once I, then I trap. Once I get there, then I can finally start living.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  You know, I see a lot of entrepreneurs, because what I do is I help business owners grow businesses. So I see a lot of entrepreneurs that say, you know, once I make a million dollars, then I'll be, then I'll be happy. Once I'll make five million, then I'll be happy. And I find that the entrepreneurs that hit that goal pretty quickly, it becomes almost a dominating thought in their mind of, I guess I thought success would be better. The ones that hit success, they almost, they, they, they almost dwell on it, they ruminate on it, they almost can't escape it. It's almost like this perpetual depression, because they, they know that, oh, I already hit my goal, and I thought that that goal would take the rest of my life, and I just hit it yesterday.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  Why is it so heavy for entrepreneurs that hit their goals quickly?

• 13:05Speaker 04

  You know, the, a lot of times we ask ourselves, like, well, what kind of ambition do I need to hit success? And I would say the question is, what kind of ambition do you need to survive success? Like, how can your ambition survive getting what you want? Because a lot of times, like, those early days of a startup, I mean, I just remember the first time we got like headbands in the mail that we were going to photograph and sell, and you're just running on this euphoria of possibility. And then all of a sudden, you start to scale. And maybe the, the job that you had as a founder, as a creator, is now a manager. Or all of a sudden, instead of, you know, building whatever you sell,

• 13:50Speaker 04

  you're now managing people, you're now doing payroll, you're now, you know, wearing all of these different hats. And so I think that a lot of times when we think about, you know, scaling as entrepreneurs, it's not, what do I need to get to success? Is how can my ambition survive success? And for me, at Mic Drop, my company today, that meant, I call it demoting myself, but I just realized I didn't love being CEO of my own company. And so finding someone that can, can do that. And so then I can go back to doing like the things that I like doing, which is writing and speaking and creating curriculum.

• 14:29Speaker 04

  But I, I see that tension in a lot of entrepreneurs, where they quote, "make it", and realizing the job has changed.

• 14:36Speaker 03

  Headbands for Hope, let's go back to that for a second. How did you sell your first five Headbands for Hope? Or how did you, your first 10? Do you remember like how you got started with that, in terms of the first sales?

• 14:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, I remember, of course, the first order coming through my Shopify website and seeing it was my mom. And I was like, you know, just like any other entrepreneur. And then, but I do remember the first time, this was, you know, 2012, 2013, blogging was really popular, and a blog, I was sending out headbands to all these different blogs to write about us, and this blog, I remember it was called The Healthy Tipping Point. It was this fitness blog, she wrote about us, and she linked it. And that was the first day that I got an order from someone that I didn't know. And I think that's one of the most memorable parts of being an entrepreneur, is the first time that you get an order purely for what you're doing,

• 15:33Speaker 04

  and not because someone, a friend or family member is trying to support you. And then I remember the first time seeing my company, my product in the wild. I was at an airport, and I saw a woman wearing our headband. And I went up to her, and I was like, oh my gosh, I love your headband. And she goes, it's the coolest company, it's called Headbands of Hope, I have to tell you about it. And I didn't, at the time, didn't have the guts to tell her that it was, it was me. But yeah, those are some moments that you take to heart.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  What do you say to an entrepreneur out there that has a product, like you did, who's trying to gain traction? I mean, did you just make a big list of influencers and bloggers that you felt like you could send sample products to? Or how did you gain that initial traction? Because there's somebody else on the other end of this conversation who's feeling a little bit depressed, because they're not gaining any traction, despite the fact that they have a product or service that they really believe strongly in?

• 16:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's, it's a grind. You know, it's easier than ever to start something, it's harder than ever to scale, because it's easy to start, so there's a lot of people out there. And I would say, I think maybe this is controversial, but in the beginning, for, for me and Headbands of Hope, it was quantity over quality. I was just trying to get into as many rooms as I can, talk to as many people as I could. And so it was so much of throwing darts and seeing what sticks, making a list of blogs, literally going door to door to women's boutiques, selling, you know, headbands out of a box, seeing if they would

• 17:07Speaker 04

  put up a window display. And then, you know, people say all the time, oh, like, what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? And now, after running Headbands of Hope and Mic Drop Workshop, I'm like, everything that I've started has been three times as hard as I thought it was going to be, taken three times as long as I thought it was going to take, and been three times more expensive than I thought it was going to cost me. Yet those things were still worth it. And so when you have a business idea, or something that you're working on, whatever you think it's going to take, if you multiply it by three, would you still do it? And when people say, well, what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? I would say, what would you do if you knew that you would?

• 17:49Speaker 04

  Like, if you know that failure is going to happen, what is worth it to you? Because as a startup and as an entrepreneur, the failures are data. It's a rite of passage. You have to do it in order to get to the next level. So what would you do if you knew you would fail?

• 18:08Speaker 03

  Okay, let's keep going on this, because this is powerful. I'm going to pull up the book real quick, I want everyone to see the, the new book here. Let me pull it up, I know you have it behind you, but I want to put it up on the screen here, too. Making It Without Losing It: How to Stay Motivated in a World Where We Are Never Done. There's the book right there, I'll put a link to it on, on the show notes. Um, just want to get your thoughts on this, because as you're going through building a business, for anybody out there that's ever built a business, you're going to deal with perpetual rejection. It's just going to happen. And 10-second story, Jess, I grew up stuttering as a young kid, couldn't talk until a certain age. And so, you know, I kind of process rejection a little bit differently, I frankly just don't care. So that's probably good and bad, I'm kind of calloused in that way. But I know a lot of people, you know, they're, they're, they do, they put their, their net worth

• 18:53Speaker 03

  as a human is tied to their success of their business. So if they reach out to 100 bloggers, let's say, or 100 podcasters, or influencers with their great product, and they say, hey, I'm throwing these ideas at the wall, I would love it if you would take an interest in my product, and perhaps talk about it, or receive a free product, and then maybe share it with your listeners, or your audience, or your viewers. And they don't get an email back, or they get a rejection email, they really...

• 19:25Speaker 04

  Take it to heart.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  They take it to heart. And so I'm just telling the listeners behind the scenes, there's a really awesome song producer I reached out to yesterday. I would love to have him on our podcast. And I've been rejected by this guy more than anybody. But occasionally people, you know, say, say yes. And that's why we've had Wolfgang Puck on the show and John Maxwell and great people. So what do you say to somebody who just wears the success or lack thereof as their, as their overall sense of value?

• 19:55Speaker 04

  I would tell them failure will always feel better than regret. If you fail, you now have data to pull from. Regret gives you nothing. You have no story. You have nothing you would do differently because you didn't do anything. And so regret hurts a lot more. I don't think that, I think that people get a little happy celebrating failures. That's not me. I want to win. But I know that I now have more information than I did before. So if that is a reframe that could help you, you would rather pick failure than regret. And then I also think being a little bit insecure.

• 20:35Speaker 04

  A lot of people talk about getting over imposter syndrome and in, you know, overcoming it. I don't think that that's what we should do. I think it's okay to be a bit insecure. There are studies at MIT that shows being, having imposter syndrome makes you better at your job, you know, being more collaborative, asking more questions, getting feedback from people. And so I don't think if you're struggling a little bit, if you might feel a little insecure, that's leverage it. Don't try to just like totally eliminate it because I would say every time before I speak, I'm a little bit nervous. And I know that I'm going to do a good job because of it.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  Now, this is an example here. You have, by the way, you have some of the best headshots on the planet. There you are, headshots. Okay. So that's the thumbnail for the show. And when

• 21:25Speaker 04

  Also, you're, we need to organize your desktop, Clay.

• 21:28Speaker 03

  It's a lot going on there. There's a lot of stuff.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  Lot of tabs open. Yeah.

• 21:32Speaker 03

  Tabs, feeling the flow. Now, but this is, you know, your, this is, these are your headshots. And whether I like them or not, you have to be okay with them. I, so you mean, these are some of my favorite headshots. I love the yellow background. I love the whole thing. It's great. But whether I like it or not, you have to be okay as an entrepreneur with not everybody liking what you do. Even, you know, the cover of your book, I think it's great. Somebody else might not like it. How do you, how do you deal with that? How do you get to a place where you can deal with the perpetual rejection? It doesn't take away your peace?

• 22:07Speaker 04

  It's a good, it's not taking away your peace is key because if you don't go out and stand for anything, if you're a speaker that goes out there and says, I speak on anything, you know, you're trying to appeal to everyone. You're not going to get booked because I call that being a Cheesecake Factory speaker. No one wants someone who can say, I serve Alfredo. I have burgers, you know, you want sushi, I can do that. You want someone who says, I make the best quesadilla you've ever had in your life. And this is the one thing that I have on the menu. But not everyone's going to like quesadillas. But that doesn't mean that you should switch to being a Cheesecake Factory.

• 22:45Speaker 04

  And so I think that if I can separate my ego from what I produce, whether that's a book, a product, a talk, that they're not rejecting Jess, they're rejecting the product, then I'm okay with that. It's not a reflection on me. That's taken a lot of work to get to this point. But making it about the work and not about you and making that distinction, like before you go into a sales call or whatever it might be, this is the product I'm selling, not the human that I am. Like, I will be okay no matter if they go buy it or not.

• 23:22Speaker 03

  Now, I'm going to pull up your, your website here for Mic Drop real quick here. And I want to switch gears into this. Tell us about Mic Drop, the workshops. What, what do you do? How does that work? Maybe, I guess, who's a good fit for Mic Drop Workshop? And what do you guys do over there?

• 23:38Speaker 04

  So this started, I was speaking and trying to spread the word about Headbands of Hope. I remember the first email I got, it's from Marshall University, asking me what my fee was to speak to their students. And I was like, fee? What are you talking about? This is crazy. Just buy me some dinner and let's call it a day. And then I just learned that this was a whole industry. And I started speaking more, realized most of the time I was the only woman on stage, realized a lot of times what I was getting paid despite ranking higher on testimonials than what some of the other speakers were getting paid. So I started to do some research and found that less than 30% of these keynote spots are going to women.

• 24:20Speaker 04

  So I put up an Eventbrite in 2018 in Raleigh and said, any women that want to learn the ropes of public speaking, come on out, I'll have wine and cheese, show you how to monetize it, show you how to get in the room. And people asked, you know, where can I watch this? I'm not going to be there. What can I do? And the room was full and that became the first Mic Drop Workshop, which we help women land keynote spots. And I think that, you know, there, whether it's a, they want to give a TED Talk or they just want to speak more confidently at work, figuring out that what you've lived, no matter what, how big or small or wherever your story is, has value to someone else.

• 25:04Speaker 04

  Sometimes we're too close to it and you need a framework. You need people to help you find that. So that's what we do at Mic Drop Workshop.

• 25:12Speaker 03

  I'm going to go into the lightning round, five questions in five minutes. Get yourself psychologically and physically prepared. Here we go. Okay. So one, somebody who says, okay, ah, I need to reach out to a lot of people, throw a lot of stuff against the wall to see what sticks, like you said, but I'm having a hard time getting over the idea. So instead of reaching out to a lot of people, I'm just reaching out to one person a week. What do you say?

• 25:35Speaker 04

  I would say if you can reach out to one person a week, can you make that a habit? Make it a meeting with yourself every day, five minutes, go on LinkedIn, connect with one new person. Just lower the bar to something tiny each day.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  Second question, in your book, Making It Without Losing It, what is someone going to learn about how to, how to redefine success beyond just financial rewards? What, what is someone going to learn if they pick up a copy of your book?

• 26:06Speaker 04

  I would say that ambition isn't the problem. It's how we see it. So we can either see what we haven't accomplished as like this annoying deficit of our self-worth, or we can see it as an exciting experiment of what could be. And so making it without losing it is helping people lean into that second option of, it's not a deficit, it's an experiment.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  What is someone going to miss out on if they don't read your book? If someone says, ah, you know, I want to go to Chipotle. I don't, I'm not really hungry, but I'll go there and go ahead and get another burrito. You know what? I'm checking out at the gas station. The guy says, can I, can I, do you want something else, sir? And you say, yeah, I do want something else. In fact, I'll have another regrettable burrito. In fact, I'm going to download iTunes songs I'm going to listen to once, watch Netflix movies that I don't really need to watch again, and, and invest money in an Amazon video that I probably will watch half of, or I'm going to buy a copy of your book. So someone's right now, they're going, should I buy a regrettable burrito? Or should I buy, should I buy a copy of your book? What is somebody missing out on if they decide to invest in regrettable purchases versus, versus investing in your book?

• 27:09Speaker 04

  I would say if you can get the burrito and the book, those two things go very well together. I'm a huge Chipotle fan. But I would say if you don't read it, then your career, how you think about work feels more transactional. And so if you can get the book, if you can do Making It Without Losing It, then you can find a way for your ambition towards the future and your content and happiness in the present to exist at once, instead of some date on your calendar that we know won't exist.

• 27:41Speaker 03

  Question number four, coming in hot. You know, a lot of people will think about marketing emails or marketing texts. And they go, okay, I gotta send a text to my database. And you only have a certain number of characters, you know, so people are rewording it. Well, I can only, I can only type this many letters or this many words. And, you know, but if you could send an email or a text message to everybody watching this show, give them one message. What, what is that message with maybe a limited amount of words or a limited amount of, what, what is the thing that everybody needs to get from you? What's the message you want everyone to hear?

• 28:14Speaker 04

  I would say one of the most

• 28:18Speaker 04

  popular lines that I get after I speak when people say, I love this is that both optimism and anxiety require us to think about something that hasn't happened yet. So if we have the ability to worry about the future, it also means we have the same ability to imagine a better one.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  Okay. And then my final question, what's the call to action for everybody watching this show and they say, you know, I kind of learned a little bit about the book, learned a bit, a little bit about the workshop. What's the main calls to action you'd like for our listeners to take today?

• 28:51Speaker 04

  One, get the book. I love local. So if you have a local bookstore, call and see if they have making it without losing it. And two, yeah, LinkedIn is my platform of choice. So you can find me there and let me know what you think.

• 29:05Speaker 03

  Okay. Bonus fries, bonus fries, sneaky, sneaky question. Final one, bonus fry, bonus fry. We thought we were done, but there's an extra fry in the bag and we're going, ooh, bonus fry. Here's the question. Is, is there anything that I should have asked on today's show? A lot of times you get off an interview, a podcast and you go, man, if that guy would have asked me this, that would have been great. Is there anything that I should have asked or a question that you would want to be asked on today's show?

• 29:32Speaker 04

  A lot of times I get asked for a public speaking tip since that's my, my thing that I do. You seem to be a great public speaker, but I'll give you one tip for your listeners that might need it. So I gave this tip in my, my TED talk a couple of years ago. And there are two types of speakers out there. You have spotlight speakers and lighthouse speakers. Spotlight speakers go up there with the spotlight shining them on themselves. They're scanning the audience for approval. They're asking, what does everyone think of me? How do I look? How do I sound? That guy's on his phone. Does he like me? But then a lighthouse speaker goes up on stage, shifts the light from themselves to their audience. If a spotlight asks, what does everyone think of me? Then a lighthouse asks, what does

• 30:16Speaker 04

  everyone need of me? And they're not concerned with approval. They're concerned with guidance. And so if you can, no matter if you're going on a podcast or stepping on a stage or giving a presentation, just take a quick second, shift the light from yourself as a spotlight to your listener as a lighthouse. You're going to be less nervous and your output is going to be better for it.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  I mean this sincerely. You are one of my favorite personalities we've ever had on this show. Your energy is awesome.

• 30:43Speaker 04

  Thanks.

• 30:44Speaker 03

  You just come across as, as so sincere. I've, I've spent a little bit of an unhealthy amount of time researching you before today's interview. And a lot of times you meet people and you go, oh crap, they're not like I thought at all.

• 30:55Speaker 04

  Not, yeah, didn't live up to it.

• 30:57Speaker 03

  We've interviewed so many wonderful people on this show and I just want you to say, thank you for being kind, for being sincere, for achieving your goals and then shifting that focus from yourself to an audience to help people, inspire them. And I encourage everyone to take action with you. And again, thank you for carving out time in your busy schedule. I really do appreciate it.

• 31:15Speaker 04

  Yeah. Thank you, Clay. Thanks for having me.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  Have a great day.

• 31:18Speaker 05

  Clay Clark, man, he is one character.

• 31:24Speaker 06

  It's a good word for him, character. Yeah, that is it.

• 31:29Speaker 05

  Driven, smart. And I've never met a guy who was so hyper all the time. He's doing so much good. And then I met his mother and she just says, she just lets him be Clay Clark. I mean, so he's endorsed by his mother and he's doing magnificent work. So it was great meeting you out there and all the people that he surrounds himself with. His, Clay Clark starts his days at five o'clock in the morning.

• 31:57Speaker 06

  Oh, it's incredible. Yeah. He's, he's like, he's, he's a machine. He's a machine.

• 32:03Speaker 05

  But his, you know, I got, I have problems with my company starting at nine o'clock. Yes. Hundreds of people showing up at 5:00 AM in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Man, he's a leader of a leader. He's fantastic, man.

• 32:18Speaker 06

  No, he is. He is.

• 32:20Speaker 07

  He also, he has this wealth of knowledge. He's worked with so many different companies and different businesses. He could take a concept that he's used before in the past with somebody totally different industry and see how it would work perfectly for you and whatever niche market you're in or whatever type of service you're providing. And so his, his brain is just a wealth of knowledge. And just to have that type of perspective on, you know, as, as a part of your team and your own company is huge, super valuable. So I would definitely encourage people to, to use him. But one thing is you've got to be coachable. You've got to be wanting to get feedback. You've got to be wanting to really grow your company. You've got to want to put that extra 10 hours a week to working on your business and not just in your business. And so, yes, I would recommend it to anybody

• 33:03Speaker 07

  who's wanting to grow their company and provide great systems, checklists, workflows, great encouragement and have accountability.

• 33:11Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Aaron Antis with Shaw Homes. I first heard about Clay through a mortgage lender here in town who had told me what a great job he had been doing for them. And I actually noticed he was driving a Lamborghini all of a sudden. So I was willing to listen.