The 5 Companies Apple Must Buy

This Week In Startups is made possible by: PayPal - https://paypal.com/business Northwest Registered Agent - https://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/twistdomain Odoo - https://Odoo.com/twist Today’s show: Timestamps: 0:00 Will Ternus take "massively big swings"? 3:43 Round 1: ElevenLabs 4:46 Round 1: Disney 6:18 Round 2: Sony 8:22 Round 2: Boston Dynamics 9:23 Round 3: Perplexity 10:02 AD: PayPal is built for all business. Get started at https://paypal.com/business 11:52 Round 3: DigitalOcean 13:02 More picks: Etched 14:30 More picks: Lucid 15:58 More picks: Superhuman 16:48 More picks: Higgsfield and more 18:09 Fans make their selections 19:47 AD: Got a new business idea? @northwestagent helps you bring it to life. Get a free domain, email, phone number, and more, with no purchase required! Learn more at www.northwestregisteredagent.com/twistdomain 25:37 Stacy Salvi of The90 joins 29:28 AD: Thanks to our partner, Odoo, the all-in-one business platform. Your first app is free! Get started today at https://Odoo.com/twist 34:38 How the app calculates your Sunscore 42:12 Building a UV research dataset 45:09 Should The90 make a version for men? Names & Links Stacy Salvi - https://www.instagram.com/stacysalvi/ The90 - https://the90.com/ Description Wall Street suspects new Apple CEO John Ternus may do something predecessor Tim Cook almost never did: writing a huge check. So Jason and Lon are playing “fantasy draft” with Apple’s balance sheet, choosing five real companies to acquire over five “rounds.” Disney buys them a ton of IP and unlocks theme park synergies. Sony gets them a gaming console and massive anime distribution. Boston Dynamics buys them lots of robots, while Etched nets them cheaper inference. So many options! Then, we chat with Stacy Salvi of The90. Her wearable pendant tells you exactly how much sun damage you’re accumulating, long before you start to burn. Guest The90: https://the90.com/ Stacy Salvi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacysalvi/ Relevant Links John Ternus becomes Apple CEO: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/04/tim-cook-to-become-apple-executive-chairman-john-ternus-to-become-apple-ceo/ Analyst: Ternus could bring bigger acquisitions: https://9to5mac.com/?p=1065466 “Grok Has Money” meme origin: https://x.com/gmfarcaster/status/2026318035103965414 Sunlight linked with lower COVID-19 deaths: https://www.ed.ac.uk/news/2021/sunlight-linked-with-lower-covid-19-deaths Reid Hoffman: “If there aren’t any typos in this essay, we launched too late”: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/arent-any-typos-essay-we-launched-too-late-reid-hoffman/ Draft Picks ElevenLabs: https://elevenlabs.io/ Disney: https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/ Sony Group: https://www.sony.com/en/ Crunchyroll: https://www.crunchyroll.com/ Boston Dynamics: https://bostondynamics.com/ Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/ DigitalOcean: https://www.digitalocean.com/ Etched: https://www.etched.com/ Rivian: https://rivian.com/ Lucid Motors: https://lucidmotors.com/ Superhuman: https://superhuman.com/ World Labs: https://www.worldlabs.ai/ PrismML: https://prismml.com/ Liquid AI: https://www.liquid.ai/ Kagi: https://kagi.com/ Sonos: https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop Whoop: https://www.whoop.com/ Oura: https://ouraring.com/ Peloton: https://www.onepeloton.com/ Subscribe to our newsletters on Substack: TWiST: https://twistartups.substack.com/ TWiAI: https://www.thisweekinai.ai/ TWiVC: https://thisweekinvc.substack.com/ Subscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple: https://rb.gy/v19fcp Follow Lon: X: https://x.com/lons Follow Jason: X: https://twitter.com/Jason LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis Check out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/ Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland Follow TWiST: Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisweekinstartups TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thisweekinstartups Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I was talking about things Apple could buy under John Ternus, who is the new CEO. Obviously, Apple's philosophy of buying things is they like to buy back their own stock and technical teams. You know, the team that built Siri, you know, the team that built Touch ID. They buy these like little tiny tuck in acquisitions of technical teams that can be added to their existing product line, but not robust, full on products. I believe John Turnus should stop buying back the shares and should take massively big swings. My way of looking at this is anything that the iPhone, your laptop, your watch, your AirPods and their stores can integrate with on some level. That is the way I look at it.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  So I asked you if maybe we should play a game like Bill Simmons does. So explain the game.

• 0:50Speaker 01

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• 1:15Speaker 02

  Oh, well, they do, a lot of podcasts do the sort of the draft where the idea is it's like you take the rules the way of fantasy football or baseball draft would work, but you're applying it to any other thing. So like the Simmons podcast I know, they do like action movies, like action heist movies. We're doing a draft, you know, and then my number one pick is Heat. Your number one is Ocean's Eleven and we go from sort of there. So I think that's the kind of core idea. We picked out the pool, which are all these potential companies that Apple maybe could buy and then we'll go.

• 1:51Speaker 00

  You got perplexity, you got Disney, you got Peloton, you got Whoop, you got Sonos, Go AI, one of our investments, Exo Labs, Robinhood, tons of great choices.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  We base some of them on your pre-selected picks. I think Jacob, correct me if I'm wrong, we did actually ask fans and viewers for their own submissions, I think. Did we, did we do that?

• 2:09Speaker 00

  I did see in some of the.

• 2:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, we've got some, we've, right, we've got some expert opinions from, from some of the viewers here so we could share those. And then, yeah, the idea would be we'll each pick a roster of what are the five companies that we think Apple should choose.

• 2:24Speaker 00

  Are we playing those clips first or we're going right into this?

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Uh, I, I think we should pick our five and then we'll, we'll see what the, the members of the public said. Uh, but yeah, do it in order. So the idea would be your first round pick. That's your, that's your best.

• 2:38Speaker 00

  Like a sports draft.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're centering the team around the first round draft pick and the second round pick.

• 2:44Speaker 00

  Of course. So let's do a type in coin toss website. We'll do a coin toss to see who goes first. There are coin toss websites.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  There are coin toss.

• 2:54Speaker 00

  On Google, do it on perplexity, whatever you got there. Flip a coin, here we go, call it lawn.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  All right, flip.

• 3:01Speaker 00

  You got heads or tails?

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Oh, I'll take, I'll take heads.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  Okay, I got tails, let's see. And you go first.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Oh, man, that sucks. I knew what you were gonna do. Uh, let's see.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  Who's your first choice?

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Let's see, I'm looking over the list right now. Oh, one that, that immediately had stood out to me that I see right here in the center. I'm going with 11 Labs, put 11 Labs.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Interesting, what's your thinking?

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Obviously, I think with Siri running your life, running your phone, uh, voice mode is coming. Everybody is going to want to do that. I think the idea, especially you could think of driving where I still going home from work every, every day. There's people like almost killing me doing this. If you could just have your phone in the car and you could just talk to it. People are, you're texting people, you're sending memos, you're answering emails your entire life.

• 3:54Speaker 00

  Fix Siri and then some, great choice.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  Above and beyond fixing Siri and making your whole phone a voice commanded system. I think, I think 11 Labs is the one.

• 4:05Speaker 00

  And 11 Labs, I think was last valued in the maybe five to 10 billion range. This would be like a rounding error.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's nothing for, it's table stakes for up.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  Now, this is going to be interesting because I am also enamored with what technology could do, what technology could do for these. Um, and, you know, I would love to go with a Tesla, let's say, but it's too late. They're in the Mac seven, they're too big, it's not possible. So I, I have to keep this realistic. But there is a big company, a big company that has a lot of shared fabric and that would tuck in perfectly for everybody. And, uh, Apple has started to dip their toe in this. And in fact, they have gotten good at it the last two or three years specifically with Apple TV and a lot of great shows emerging there. So I'm not going with Netflix, but I am going with Disney.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  Disney is a large company that if you were to have on your devices, every Disney show as part of your Apple one, uh, you take your iPhone to the parks, you know, everything there. Why not go big here? Why not take a really loved brand and make your devices very unique? And remember I said earlier, like what happens in the stores? Imagine all those great Disney stores have some Apple products like AirPods for kids that are Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse, or a Star Wars laptop, you know, or a Disney Apple watch, right? So I think they have done things with Disney for the watch faces already with Mickey,

• 5:44Speaker 00

  but you could start really doing interesting things with that IP. So I'm gonna go big, I'm gonna go with a curve ball, I'm going Disney as my first.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  I mean, you think about all the stuff Disney tries to do at the, at the parks with the interactivity. You know, you put your, they give you the band and then you use that on the ride and then that's how you're interacting. Imagine what you could do if you had like everything is on, you're already, everything in the park is on your phone. But if Apple and Disney were the same company, uh, you know, unbelievable synergies to be unlocked there. For my, for my next one, I had thrown this out in the chat room. I think this is a really interesting, like when this first came up, this was the first company I actually thought of. Sony, I'm picking Sony for number two. Again, a relative steal if you are Apple. I mean, a market cap you could, I think, easily afford. The, the big one here is the PlayStation.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  I think Apple immediately gets another device that's in millions and millions of homes that people are obsessed with, that they can take and make, I mean, they could keep it as the Apple PlayStation. They could make it Apple Gaming or the center of their new gaming sort of, uh, company. And, and, you know, I, I think incredible things they could do. Obviously, they also inherit a hell of a TV business, so Apple TVs could suddenly be.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Sony Music Group.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Sony Pictures, Sony Music, they've got a huge TV and film distribution channel. They've got a huge music distribution channel. And the last one, a lot of people might not realize Sony owns Crunchyroll, the number one anime owner and streaming system in the West, really not even just America. So I mean, imagine the power of Apple exclusively being the distributor for almost every popular anime series that comes out, from Attack on Titan to Chainsaw Man and beyond. I, I, I think an unbelievable opportunity they could unlock to, to be at the center of all of that. Disney's at 182 billion market cap right now.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  Sony's 135.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  Sony's 134, yeah.

• 7:42Speaker 00

  You know, is Apple at five trillion? What is Apple at, four trillion, four trillion maybe?

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Apple's at 4.96 trillion, so five trillion.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  So five, five trillion, so 1%. Uh, five trillion is 50 billion, so this would be like 3% acquisitions, 5% acquisitions raised. My second choice is going to be a wild one. Now I'm gonna go tech, I'm going tech. Uh, now it'd be very easy for me to pick Go AI, which is one of our, or Exo Labs for local AI.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, you do great, yeah.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, that would be, and I think it's interesting. But I have one that is a, might as well skate to where the puck is going, which is Boston Dynamics. Boston Dynamics has an interim CEO, I interviewed her in July for the All In Interview Show. And they have all types of robots there, but eventually Apple will have no choice but to have a robot and they could have these be industrial, let the company run on its own. But then they could start working on the Apple A1 robot, you know? And oh my Lord, people would trust an Apple robot, you know, and it could be extraordinary for Apple.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think getting people to buy a robot and put it in their home is a huge trust thing. And Apple is the brand that could convince people like, all right, I'll let the Apple.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  And, you know, make a, what we should do is make a short video after we finish this draft of. Walking through the Apple Store and seeing all this. So you see Lon's, you know, Apple PlayStation, you see Siri working. We could literally make a movie of these acquisitions. Let's keep going. What do you got?

• 9:14Speaker 02

  All right. I'm surprised. I'm amazed you haven't chosen this one. I thought for sure I was not gonna get this. Going in the third round, I'm really surprised. I'm going with perplexity. I think that you, you had mentioned this in your

• 9:25Speaker 00

  Damn it, that was my next.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  You had mentioned this in your tweet and I was immediately like, that is the correct, that's actually the right answer. Because Apple, they, they, they're in this amazing position of not being invested in just one model or one family models. They can afford to be totally model agnostic and perplexity would be the perfect router and system that you could plug into your Apple device. And now you can use any model that you want and all of these great perplexity harnesses and products and agents right there. Uh, like, so, you know, perplexity computer just coming on your MacBook Air is like the solution to a million different, I think, problems. And so that, that, that's a gimme, I think.

• 10:03Speaker 00

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• 10:37Speaker 01

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• 10:44Speaker 00

  I was going with perplexity next. So you stole it off the board. Um, and I think you have search, which is a huge franchise for them. They do a deal with Google for that. But having their own search as a default, maybe you could switch off Google and pick perplexity eventually when that deal runs out.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 00

  They have their own search engine now driven by perplexity. They have their own, you know, headless harness, et cetera. And it would just put them on third base. Now it gets hard here.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:08Speaker 00

  Because, um, you had so many great choices here. Uh, you know, looking at something like Spotify, they already have Apple Music. I don't think it's gonna really help the situation. You look at something like Sonus, I think, Sonos, I think they could rebuild it. It would be a tiny tuck in, but it's not gonna dramatically change the fortune of the company. I'm looking for things that could build a hundred billion dollar, a 200 billion dollar, a 500 billion dollar revenue stream. In other words, like, really figure out how to replace the iPhones, you know, uh, the iPhone dependency. So Disney, you got that entertainment parks merchandise IP. Very good, right? Boston Dynamics, totally new category. What if it works and you're selling 10, 100 million robots a year? Okay,

• 11:52Speaker 00

  that could be transformative. Here's a wild card transformative one. I'm gonna go with Digital Ocean. Digital Ocean, cloud provider. There's no Amazon Web Services. There's no Azure. There's nothing at Apple, uh, for hosting their apps, hosting software. But there is trust. They have a lot of developers who use MacBooks. Imagine your MacBook allows you to do hosting and imagine you trust Apple. Uh, you maybe get automatically reviewed faster in the App Store. Maybe you have some preference on the desktop. You have speed. You're in the data centers with Apple and Digital Ocean's like 10, 15 billion dollars, 20 billion dollars, depending on when you would buy it. You have to pay a premium. So you probably have to pay 50%. So it's gonna be 25 billion dollar acquisition. No problem.

• 12:36Speaker 00

  Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Bang. Now they're in the game versus Elon Web Services, Azure, uh, Google Cloud and AWS. It could easily become a 50 or 100 billion dollar revenue line.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a, that's a good one. Uh, let's, then that gets really tough. There's a few on here I'd still like, but you know what I think would be an interesting one is, uh, is etched. I think I'm gonna go etched for number four. Well, if you think about it, I mean, Apple right now, they're entirely dependent on Nvidia chips like, like everybody else. Imagine owning their own chip company and etched is exactly the kind of AI chip that Apple desperately needs. They're not training models. They're running inference constantly, especially now that they own perplexity, Jason. So I feel like, uh, you know, Siri and Apple Intelligence are answering all of these requests, billions and billions of devices. That's the kind of job that etched is building all of these chips for. Uh, and,

• 13:32Speaker 02

  and you know, their, their server side AI is currently running Apple Silicon, not really designed for this. Etch gives them a totally new sort of option in terms of how to run this. Uh, and, and you know, it bridges Nvidia level talent without having to buy a company that's Nvidia sized. So, I mean, it's an expensive one. I'll look up etched as valuation. It's high, but, uh, I, let's see, uh, 21 billion is what they're saying for etch. So it's a, it's a chunk, but I mean, still less than a Sony level player. And I think it opens up

• 14:02Speaker 00

  I think they have 250 billion in cash right now. So it's like this, these are all less than their cash position.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 14:07Speaker 00

  Um, all right. I like it. Actually seems like an interesting one. Now it gets difficult. I like to think big categories. So, um, what's a big category that they can really sink their teeth into? I think it's transportation now. Obviously Uber is, uh, first love here. 150 billion dollar company. It's super cheap right now. It's not 200 billion anymore. Trust me, I know and I still got some Uber shares left. Um, and, uh, but then I think, hmm, maybe a Waymo, but Waymo's not available and things like, uh, Cursor not available, right? So I am gonna think from first principles, how could they have their own robot taxi fleet

• 14:50Speaker 00

  or cars? How could they have their own car that you buy? You would buy a BMW, not available, Mercedes not available, but two companies that could be available, Rivian and Lucid. I think Rivian is a San Francisco based company, um, with a loved car and it would easily tuck in. And then you have Lucid, which makes a, I believe a better product line. So it's a very big toss up for me. I'm gonna give the edge to Lucid because Lucid is reportedly working on a dedicated cyber cab, but it's, it's a coin toss there.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:27Speaker 00

  So we don't have Lucid, but we'll have them make a

• 15:30Speaker 02

  We'll throw Lucid in there, yeah.

• 15:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. So Lucid is my number four.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's a great pick. Uh, for, you know, for number five, I'm, I'm really, I'm really divided on number five. I had a pick that I thought was great and now I'm, now I'm hedging my bets, but I'll, I'll, I'll go with, okay. Uh, so I think what, one thing that I think is interesting is there's a company on here that has been making sort of preferred niche versions of a lot of the things that Apple already does. And by just buying the company out, Apple could like upgrade all of its products overnight and, and that's superhuman. So I think if you, if you imagine your, your document writing, your, your emails, everything you're doing on the phone with words, with text, with writing, with productivity, all of these different apps that Apple sort of has been

• 16:19Speaker 02

  struggling to update or upgrade properly, overnight you get the superior, superhuman, grammarly versions of all of that productivity suite on everybody's phone, on everybody's laptop. Uh, it makes total sense to me that you would load up your MacBook Air and it would just have, you know, superhuman go as your mail client. Why am I messing around with this legacy 20-year-old mail app? Um, so yeah, I'm going superhuman number five.

• 16:43Speaker 00

  All right. So I now think I need to build a deep tech choice here. And so I was thinking about Higgs Field. Um, you know, it's like a $5 billion private company and thinking Exo Labs for putting Macs together and creating local AI runway, interesting mid-journey. All these are super interesting and I would have put perplexity in this lot. I also love the idea of healthcare. The challenge here is Peloton is like a two-trick pony. Uh, Whoop and Aura are great, but they kind of already have that sensor, uh, stuff handled inside of the Apple Watch. So it would create, um, you know, a little too much tension, I think, to have that come in. It wouldn't, it wouldn't tuck in very well. Formula One is a crazy wild card. Uh, Nintendo, crazy wild card.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Formula One was the one I was hedging on actually because it would, it would be, I mean, if you think about it, like Apple having a huge presence, that's such an elite kind of event now that people are into. And it's just a huge growing business, but yeah, I, I

• 17:40Speaker 00

  You know, it's like, and to buy something like the NFL or the NBA is just not possible because it's a, you know, a series of franchises. It just doesn't work. So I think, uh, local AI is the big winner. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take my chance and pick Go AI, one of our portfolio companies here. Cause I think local AI is the big winner. Exo could have fit in here as well, but that's my five.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 18:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, but folks. Now I guess the question is, we want you, the audience, to post a comment here. What did we miss? And who did a better draft? Who would you rather see as the corporate development person at Apple? Me or Lon? Who, who's gonna win this, Lon?

• 18:19Speaker 02

  They're both strong. They're both very strong picks. They're both, we fielded, we fielded quality teams, I think.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  You didn't pick Netflix. I don't know for sure you would go Netflix.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I, you know, Sony, I feel like gets them, I feel like Apple TV already is like, they're better quality and consistency than Netflix. They're just not operating at that level and make at that scale. But with Sony, I think they, they, they could essentially, they could become a Netflix rival.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  All right. There you go. There's your draft. If you have other ideas, post them in the comments.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  We did get a few submissions, I believe, Jacob. Yeah, let's hear from our audience. Who would they have picked to pick up?

• 19:00Speaker 03

  It's Sideman here. I think the next thing that Apple should maybe be looking into is Boston Dynamics. Now, that might sound crazy, right? But Apple has spent decades mastering personal computing, spatial computing, and you know, they're trying now on-device AI. But computing is changing shape as we see it. The grand frontier in the future is not maybe on the desk or on your face or in your hands anymore, right? It's in motion, if you will. So by acquiring Boston Dynamics, Apple kind of merges the world's most advanced artificial brain with the world's most advanced physical body, right? We've seen the hardware that Boston.

• 19:37Speaker 00

  What's his name?

• 19:37Speaker 02

  Lance Sideman.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, I know that name.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, a superfan. We've seen him before. So yeah, that's thank you to Lance. He picked up Boston Dynamics.

• 19:47Speaker 00

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• 20:41Speaker 02

  Up next, I think we've got another friend of the show, David Rosenberg.

• 20:45Speaker 00

  What's David got?

• 20:46Speaker 04

  Apple has a pretty clear pattern with acquisitions. When a technology becomes important enough to experience, Apple eventually wants to own it. So Next gave them the operating system foundation that became Mac OS and iOS. P A Semi helped them build the silicon capability that eventually let them move off of Intel and Prime Sense brought the 3D sensing technology that eventually fed into Face ID. So I think AI creates the same kind of moment because it's changing how we actually use computers. Right now, if I want to do something, I have to know how to do it. I have to open apps, find the right information and actually perform the task. With an agent, I can just say what I want done and let the computer figure out how to do it. So for my three acquisitions, I would have Perplexity to number one because it gives Apple an agent that can actually reach outside of Apple's own ecosystem. So it can research the web, use software and route between different models.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  And at number two, I'd have World Labs because they're building spatial intelligence. So if agents are eventually going to work through cameras, glasses, robotics, they need to understand the physical world as well. And for number three, I have Prism ML because they're figuring out how to shrink much larger models enough to run locally instead of constantly relying on somebody else's cloud.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  Well, it's interesting. We're all kind of circling around similar ideas. It's just like which company is the right one for to do the job.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  Interesting, though. Let's keep going. Yeah, do you have another?

• 21:57Speaker 02

  I believe we do. Up next, we've got a friend of the show. This is the same guy who called in to let us know that Grok is making money now. If you'll recall, when we did Ask Jason, we were talking to our next guest about Grok being able to earn its own cash and what that means. This is Michael Lee Jr. Here's Michael Lee Jr.'s pick.

• 22:16Speaker 05

  Hey, Jason, thanks for having me on and allowing me to respond to this question. So the question that came through that you raised was which suite of companies would make the most sense for Apple in terms of acquisitions? And I just think about AI voice. So I've tried almost every AI voice tool out there and none of them work except for 11 Labs and 11 Labs is seems like so far ahead of everyone else when it comes to voice. So I'll say 11 Labs, Jason. And also, don't forget, I've already told you this, but Grok has money. This is a big story, Jason.

• 22:52Speaker 00

  So you're, that was it?

• 22:53Speaker 02

  11 Labs. We had the same, we had the same idea. I mean, it's so obvious. Siri still can't understand half the things I say. I'm like, give me, pull up the map. I want to go home and it calls my mom or something. It's crazy. 11 Labs, the obvious, like one-shot solution. Up next, we've got a Databricks cybersecurity expert and friend of the pod, Kristin Dahl. Here's her pick.

• 23:16Speaker 06

  Hi, folks. Kristin Dahl here. I wanted to chime in on the topic of Apple acquisitions. And so the, my line of thinking was how can we make Apple products more useful to customers throughout their day? And so the four that I landed on are Liquid AI, Aura, Sonos and Kagi. Liquid AI I'm most interested in. So they actually built on-device local models that are designed to run in environments where latency is a concern, or you've got power constraints or compute constraints, or where you don't have access to a network. And so I think if you combine that with Apple's engineering expertise and their OS expertise, you'd have a very compelling technical product fit.

• 24:00Speaker 06

  Number two is Aura. I could see this as being offered in conjunction to the Apple Watch for folks that don't necessarily want to invest in the Apple Watch or walk around with a screen on their wrist. It could be a good alternative. The third is Sonos. And so I could see, so historically, Apple's not done a great job of getting into people's homes. And so I could see a Sonos acquisition is providing a good jumping off point for tying together things like Apple Music, Siri, Apple TV and home automation. And then my fourth is Kagi and they offer a premium subscription-based search service

• 24:44Speaker 06

  where privacy is kind of their number one selling point. And so Apple constantly talks about how they are privacy first. So I could see this. I could see them kind of offering this premium search functionality to, within their ecosystem, especially since I can almost guarantee like 99% of Apple users are still using Google. And that experience, we are like, we all know that experience has gone significantly downhill over the past number of years. And so thanks for the time. Those are my four. Love the pod.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  Love it. Great job. All right. This was a big win. I like this. I like this exercise. This is a fun one. And yeah, well, more to come on this week in startups. All right, let's tee up our guest.

• 25:30Speaker 02

  All right, we're going to be talking to Stacy Salvi. She's the co-founder and CEO of The90. They're a startup that has launched a wearable, Jason, that is built to track your skin's real UV exposure. It's a small pendant. It uses built-in sensors to measure the actual UVA and UVB rays hitting your body in real time. Stacy, thanks so much for joining us.

• 25:54Speaker 07

  Ah, thanks for having me.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  Great to see you. Looks like you're, you know, at a beautiful, you're on a beautiful deck there with some beautiful foliage. Where are you calling in from?

• 26:04Speaker 07

  I am actually at my house in the East Bay.

• 26:07Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. Beautiful. Oh, the East Bay is gorgeous. Nice and warm over there. Tell us about what you built and why.

• 26:13Speaker 07

  Yeah, absolutely. So I have a deep background in wearables. I loved hearing what you had to say about the Plod wearable. So I've worked at Fitbit for quite a long time, about eight years through the Google acquisition. And from there, ended up building a smart ring that was designed with women in mind.

• 26:33Speaker 00

  Who made the smart ring that was?

• 26:35Speaker 07

  So it was a publicly traded company startup called Movano. Yeah, so they developed a, you know, the smart ring technology, but the features were very specifically thinking of, of women. And we ended up winning 16 Best of CES awards there, which was great. But then I got back together with my co-founder and we started talking about what it might mean to measure UV, knowing at the time that 90% of photo aging that happens to the skin is due to UV exposure, hence the name The90.

• 27:17Speaker 07

  So we kind of started on this journey about two and a half years ago and thinking about what the best form factor would be. Really kind of thinking about women first because anti-aging is important to us. But as we went along, we discovered there's so much more to this than just anti-aging. Of course, the low-hanging fruit that we can think of is getting our vitamin D. You know, more than a billion people globally are deficient in vitamin D. Vitamin D is, serves as a hormone and it is a factor that goes into all sorts of things for our, our overall health.

• 27:55Speaker 07

  But it's so much more than that. It's circadian light. It's nitric oxide, mitochondrial health. But nobody has really been able to make advancements in this because nobody has really measured at scale on the body.

• 28:11Speaker 00

  And this is in the form of a pendant that you're wearing?

• 28:15Speaker 07

  Yes. So I am wearing the pendant right now. You can see that it looks like.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  Elegant. Yeah.

• 28:20Speaker 07

  Thank you. Thank you very much. It's intended to be elegant because, you know, we deserve to wear something that looks, that looks nice. So the, the other kind of cool thing about the pendant is that it is modular, so I can take it out. And we will have a line of accessories coming, so you can wear it on different parts of your body.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  Oh, so you could do like a bangle or something, maybe? Or, yeah.

• 28:47Speaker 07

  A clip?

• 28:48Speaker 00

  What do, what do people call a bracelet? That's it. I go bangle because I'm a fan of Wonder Woman, but I'm. I would like to bring the bangle back. I feel like the bangle Stacy would be an incredible smart device. Like if I could have a thick bangle as a man, like what would that be Lon in pop culture? Like a wrestler had those? I know the heavy metal people used to have the bangle. Who wears a bangle?

• 29:13Speaker 02

  A bracer. I think you'd call it a bracer if you were a man.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  Or Mark Knopfler. What did Mark Knopfler wear? Those were like, um, he wore a headband and then a wristband for sweating.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, those are those 80s wristbands. That was a little different. Yeah. You mean like the workout wristband for the 80s. Yeah. Okay.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  When you're an early stage founder and you're just starting out, you're probably going to rely on a few different tools to run your business. And then you're going to try to duct tape them together. Yeah. And that might be a fine placeholder until you finish your MVP, but this will get expensive and messy fast. When you're scaling, that's when you need Odoo. O D O O. Odoo. The all in one management software that already has 16 million users across more than 170,000 companies. Odoo is bringing everything you need into one platform. That means your CRM, sales, your accounting, manufacturing, inventory, and of course, point of sale, if you have retail.

• 30:10Speaker 00

  All of that is right where you need them. And these tools are in constant communication with each other. So you don't have to log out of one system into another and then reconcile the information by using different apps and spreadsheets. Ugh. When you make a sale, you want that invoice created instantly. And then you want your inventory to get an update. If you're still cobbling together your back office across five different apps, get started today at Odoo.com/twist. And your first app is free. That's O D O O dot com slash twist.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  So now this is tracking your exposure to sunlight.

• 30:47Speaker 07

  Correct. Right. And there are two types of rays that come down to the earth, the UVA rays and UVB. Um, we measure both on separate, uh, three-way photodiode sensor, uh, because each of those impacts our skin and our health differently. Uh, so UVA, for example, you need to accrue a certain amount of UVA throughout the day, um, in order to release nitric oxide in your blood. Uh, the other piece is that this is individual to all of us. So my skin type is different than Lon's, different than yours, Jason. So, uh, how our skin responds to the sun and what our family history is all different. And we factor in all of that into our algorithms.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  And this is key because, you know, as an Irish Swedish guy, Greek guy, like I can get burned pretty quickly in the sun. 75% Irish and Swedish, I'm going to burn. But every day I go for a little out, when I wake up, I get the coffee, I go up on the horse pitch, I got the nice view, I got the picnic table. And sometimes I'll hike around, take my shirt off, and nobody needs to see that I'm on the ranch. But you want to increase the amount of skin that's exposed to the sun. And I find, man, I wake up, my Fitbit, not my Fitbit, my Whoop doesn't record this.

• 32:05Speaker 07

  Correct.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  Um, and it's, you know, it's typically not seen or whatever. So this is a unique device, but can I get that data, I guess, into Apple Health Kit and then sync it with my, uh, my Whoop? And then how do you think about people owning multiple ones? Cause you know, like people are Team Aura, Whoop, Fitbit, which is now called Google something? What did they rename it? It's like, Google Health? I think I lost all my data because I put my Fitbit scale on and it's like, oh, by the way, there's no more Fitbit. And I'm like, what?

• 32:34Speaker 02

  It's Google Health. Fitbit is now Google Health.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. Thanks, Google. And it's like, oh, you only have so many days to get my 20 year history of my weight. I'm like, come on. Like this, I don't know why they keep changing the naming, but talk to me about multiple devices in the ecosystem and then consolidating the data in somewhere.

• 32:52Speaker 07

  Absolutely. So the intention of our system is to, uh, do what's called a bilateral API, not to be, you know, overly technical, but do a data exchange. So that way we can start to get some of those insights. So some of our early testing is revealing that that circadian rhythm, which we know from research is a primary driver of sleep quality. Um, when you actually get it and you track it, we can tell when you get deeper sleep, fewer awake moments, uh, over the course of the evening. So our data is really going to prove out that philosophy. Um, but it doesn't

• 33:33Speaker 07

  stop there. Uh, there are so many other things. There are about 60 different health conditions that are impacted by sunlight, whether that's a skin condition like a vitiligo or eczema, Seria says, of course, we know that, but also things like lupus. Um, when you get an autoimmune condition like lupus, if you get too much sunlight, you can have a flare up. So these are things that we see our data as being that key external environmental signal that's going to lead to real health intelligence down the line. And, and definitely, uh, sharing that data across platform is going to be really key.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Uh, so, uh, I'm getting word that you have an actual, we can see some of the software. Uh, you've got it pulled up for us. Can we take a look at what we actually see if we were using our nine dependent?

• 34:23Speaker 07

  I would be, I would be glad and honored to show you what we have. Now you are getting a very early look. This is actually not out on the market just yet. Um, so there's still probably some tweaks that we'll be doing, but let me share my screen.

• 34:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, we love it.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  As I always tell founders, Stacy, never apologize. Just release it. Every founder's like this. Literally Elon's like, oh my God, the new Roadster's coming out. I'm sorry, but it's not perfect. Just let it rip founders.

• 34:53Speaker 07

  Fair enough.

• 34:54Speaker 00

  Well, I think that's what Reid Hoffman said. If you're not embarrassed by your 1.0, you waited too long. You waited far too long. And Lon, you know, I'm really like fascinated by this, um, opportunity here because, um, a lot of this data doesn't exist for research. And now if you had a thousand or 10,000 or 100,000 people with this data, and you know their ethnicity, and you know their location, and, and, and, you know, their heart rate, you know, their weight, all of this data put together, their age, you put it all together, scientists are going to start to figure out something about like, say eczema. People have like this skin rashes. And I, I know somebody, a family member, an extended family member who had this and this poor girl, you know,

• 35:37Speaker 00

  young girl kept breaking out. And there's no solution. And she's on cortisones and creams. And it's just like they're trying to figure it out. Yeah. Very hard to figure out. Okay.

• 35:48Speaker 07

  Yeah. And, and that's, uh, you know, in my own family, we have this exact issue with eczema. It's, it's really, uh, quite debilitating for my son, in fact. Um, and so, you know, part of the inspiration of, of getting to this deeper level and, and, and getting these measurements. So that way we can actually provide guidance is, is really key. Um, so let me talk about what we've built in the app and I'll, I'll walk you all through it. What you see in the center now, you probably can tell from the lighting that it is quite cloudy. Um, in fact, a bit cold and windy out here, but we are definitely still getting, uh, exposed to more UVA rays than UVB.

• 36:33Speaker 07

  And for those of us who are skin health enthusiasts, uh, what, why that's important is that UVA is the aging UV and UVB is the burning UV. What we have in the center is a proprietary, uh, number that's similar to what you might see in a weather forecast app as far as, um, UV index, but it is actually a live reading of the UV. Um, so we can really get a sense of what the risk is.

• 37:02Speaker 00

  Based on what the pendant is seeing.

• 37:04Speaker 07

  Based on exactly, exactly what the pendant is seeing. Uh, I'm a little bit occluded from the sun right now. Let me, let me walk you through some of the key parts here, which I think are-

• 37:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think this is cool where it says like 80% protection efficiency, long sleeve, long pants, SPF 40, sunscreen applied, one hour and 37 minutes ago, 23 minutes left. Like is this is really detailed in customizing it.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  Can I, can I also ask, what does it say down there about vitamin D? Cause that is my exact problem. That's why I was thinking I need one of those.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  I'm low on vitamin D too. Everybody's.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  Everybody's a little low on vitamin D. I actually take supplements, but that would be a great thing for me to be able to monitor is how much vitamin D have I gotten today?

• 37:44Speaker 07

  Yes, absolutely. So, uh, so Jason, you pointed out, um, I think a really incredible feature that was recently built by our team, which is kind of, what kind of protection, uh, do we have going right now? Uh, so this is really a blend because obviously we, when we think of sun protection, we might think of SPF. Um, that's not the only sun protection we can have. We obviously have our clothes. We could have a hat. Um, we can tell the system that I'm wearing a Legionnaire, for example. I had to look it up.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  What's a Legionnaire? I don't even know what that is.

• 38:16Speaker 07

  I think it's a type of hat.

• 38:18Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. Oh, I know what it is. A Legionnaire is the hat with the back, um, cover, like the neck cover maybe?

• 38:24Speaker 02

  Is that, is it a neck flap hat? Hang on. I don't think it. I, there is a Legionnaire hat, but I'll look it up.

• 38:30Speaker 07

  And, and all of it highly relevant for keeping our skin protected.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  You're right, Jason. It's the cap with the, the drapes down the side in the back. That is, you're, you are correct. I was mistaken.

• 38:42Speaker 00

  This is, see, this is J Cal, the magic of J Cal. I did process of elimination. This is how I scored well on the SATs. I knew what wasn't the answer, that baseball cap, that wide brim hat. So process of elimination, Legionnaire, we learned something new here. And this is a very critical thing, Lon. When you don't know a word, a great sign of intellect, my grandfather taught me this, is to ask, what does that word mean? And then over your lifetime, the number of words you don't know goes down.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  Of course. I always look up a word I don't know.

• 39:13Speaker 00

  Uh, genius. Look at this. Um, and so, so tell us about this, the vitamin D. Cause we've got to get Lon, looks like a ghost here. It's like zombie Lon.

• 39:24Speaker 07

  I would love to share the the sun score. The sun score is the new feature that we're super excited about. So we're not, I guess I would preface this with saying that we're not here to tell somebody precisely how much sun they need or they don't need. But what we're here to do is kind of help optimize and help educate. Because since so much of this hasn't really been researched with on body measurement in the past, you know, we're going to be learning along with our community. But what we did was we developed a sun score that really captured the the amount of sun that you get. So here you see

• 40:05Speaker 07

  UVB burn, UV aging, and sun debt. Those things are if I get too much sun. And you can see that my sun debt is already a little bit yellow because I was at my kids soccer games this past weekend, and I didn't do a great job of reapplying. I think one thing that sun debt is really interesting, and perhaps your audience would also find this interesting, is that when we're exposed to a lot of sunlight on a particular day, our skin is actually still processing that up to five days later. Which is why it's so important to keep ourselves protected. But Jason, as you were saying, we also really

• 40:46Speaker 07

  need to get sun exposure. And so having ourselves exposed, you know, maybe we're taking our shirt off, or we're wearing shorts. So that way, we can accrue that vitamin D and nitric oxide is really also key to keeping us healthy. So we have that. You can see that I've gotten some circadian light this morning. I'll go down to that that portion. I missed a little bit of the window. So I got about 10 minutes of circadian light out of our 20. And it's not quite bright enough outside yet for me to get vitamin D, which is a synthesis of UVB rays. So I'll make sure to come out later today to capture

• 41:31Speaker 07

  that light. You know, whether it's it's cool or warm, it's important for me to get that because I also am very low in vitamin D.

• 41:38Speaker 00

  Have you started to talk to the scientific research community? There are people who are running studies, and I'm sure they have access to the same technology as you, but they don't have it at scale. I think there are people who, you know, are big pharmaceutical companies, etc., or universities that would love to have this data en masse, in order to figure this out. Because these things, like we talked about eczema, etc., and skin cancer, etc., there is no data. I think if you just get to like 1,000 or 10,000 people with this, which maybe there's some study that would just underrate that, aka pay

• 42:20Speaker 00

  you as a startup, man, they could just accelerate the understanding of all this. Have you started to talk to the community yet?

• 42:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, absolutely. And we we are very like minded in that that concept. So we're in the process now of building out our partnership ecosystem, and being able to make that data available. We've received inbound inquiries from some of these companies or and research organizations. So we're very excited about possibly working with them because while maybe we started down the road of anti aging, this has always been a health and wellness story, and really better understanding that, which is also why we're so excited to have Dr. Richard Weller, who is our chief medical officer, on board. So if you haven't heard

• 43:11Speaker 07

  of Dr. Weller, look up his work online. He is really incredible. So he is a dermatologist and professor at the University of Edinburgh. And he's really the world's expert in how UV impacts overall health. So he's one of the the researchers who discovered that mortality related to COVID was lower in areas that had higher UVI. So he's still using the UVI metric, which is relatively obtuse, because it's very zip code level sunlight intensity.

• 43:50Speaker 07

  But he definitely is on board with us that the more we can measure by having these sensors on body, the higher fidelity of data, and the richer the data set's going to get.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  This is great. How can people order one? I'm always like to give a founder a plug here. Are these available? And how much does this cost? What's the business model here?

• 44:10Speaker 07

  Yeah, they so they are available.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  Yum yum.

• 44:13Speaker 07

  90, the 90 dot com. We are selling them for 299 currently.

• 44:20Speaker 00

  Okay, it's cheaper than like a pendant that would look this good if you were buying one for aesthetics only.

• 44:26Speaker 07

  Yeah. And, you know, it's also, you know, as I said earlier, it's modular. So if you wanted to get a pendant and swap it back and forth, I do that regularly, depending if I want to wear gold or silver. But really excited to also launch some accessories in the coming months. Just in case you don't feel like wearing it as a pendant, or you want to wear different jewelry, then you can

• 44:48Speaker 00

  A brooch. That's the word, right, Stacy? A brooch?

• 44:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. A brooch, yeah, like one of those big things you wear here on your on your jacket.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  But you keep talking about women here. What about guys? Is there like, I mean, it's a little bit of a feminine design, but I'm into I don't have any issues with it.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  A man could wear a brooch if it was a masculine brooch, yeah.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  Kind of feel like if you put a Knicks logo on it, I'd wear it.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  There you go, yeah.

• 45:14Speaker 00

  If we put sports logos.

• 45:16Speaker 07

  There's all sorts of customization that we can do for you, Jason. But you're I mean, you're absolutely right. I think when we initially started this, we were thinking anti aging. And so we wanted to make a design that women would really like. So we started with with the pendant. Of course, we made it modular, which was, you know, it's a hardware challenge to make something click in and out and give it that premium feel that you want. So that way, we could, you know, appeal to somebody's versatile tastes.

• 45:47Speaker 00

  Listen, I'm going to allow it, Stacy. You went with like, your ideal customer profile was gender specific. We're not going to cancel you here. But if you saw clavicular Clav mog me and Chamath at the All In Summit this week, he was looks maxing us.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  That guy gets no sun.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  And he gave me a 4.2. You know, I'm a 55 year old guy. I got like, touch up my appearance on like 40% here. Gentlemen are very concerned with looks maxing now, Stacy. So you need to get a men's landing page here.

• 46:20Speaker 07

  Indeed.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 46:22Speaker 07

  I'm confident, I'm confident we'll have something for the men and for everybody in in good time, in good time.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  I mean, I asked Claude, Jason, and he says, brooches have no gender restriction. Men have wore them throughout history. Think cravat pins, tie pins, military medals, kilt pins, ornate clasps on cloaks and doublets going back centuries. So.

• 46:46Speaker 00

  But Stacy, any interest in making a cloak for Lon and I? We would like to wear cloaks with a brooch. So we could be more like Dr. Strange. No, I think I got a killer idea for you, Stacy. Here's how you get not only men, but you go right to the like, conservative MAGA group, which clearly, if you're in the East Bay, is top of mind for you.

• 47:07Speaker 07

  Of course.

• 47:08Speaker 00

  Is here in Texas. Make a square one with the American flag on it.

• 47:13Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  Make a square one with the American flag. You're going to get JD vans. I'm going to wear it. Trump's going to be what we're all going to be.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  We'll call it the America pin.

• 47:23Speaker 00

  It's going to be huge, okay? We're going to get endorsed by Donald Trump. We're going to have an incredible, the 90.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  His picture on it, yeah.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  The USA 90.

• 47:32Speaker 07

  I mean, it's certainly, I love that idea. I it's certainly very timely right now because there's a lot of distrust of sunscreens right now. And I don't know if you've

• 47:43Speaker 00

  Say more about that. My wife's on this. Also, my deodorant. She keeps going into my drawer. She takes my aluminum perfect gel deodorant, and then she puts some fakka crazy thing in there that doesn't work. It smells like eucalyptus. But the same thing with the with the sunscreen. She's doing that, too.

• 48:02Speaker 07

  I can't speak to your deodorant choices. But definitely, you know, there's there have been some research, you know, big, big research studies that have come out recently around, you know, people's distrust of sunscreen, or really driving people's distrust of sunscreen. Which, again, you know, we know that we don't want to get fried out there. We don't want to get heavily burned where we're peeling. That's really important. We know that that's linked to a higher incidence of melanoma. But to the extent somebody is not getting fried, you know, the 90 is not here to tell people, this is the exact sunscreen that

• 48:42Speaker 07

  you should use. And here's, you know, and here's the the exact steps. We're here to measure, inform, and provide insights into people's habits. So it's really important that we contextualize the data people are seeing, so they can learn something about, you know, how sunlight impacts their overall health, or how it's impacting their skin.

• 49:02Speaker 00

  Benzene and oxybenzone, Lon. These are the chemicals that I have been told. And we actually had a partner, a sponsor, in one of my events at the Napa, who gave us like a more healthy version, because my team was on to this like 10 years ago. And we we actually bought it. It wasn't even a partner. We just bought small packets. I think we got a discount because we bought it in bulk, directly from this founder in the Bay Area, paradoxically. This is critically important. Listen, continued success. Stacy, everybody go to the 90. This sounds like a great gift for the holiday season, maybe.

• 49:35Speaker 07

  Yes, indeed. People need to get their sunlight even in the winter.

• 49:39Speaker 00

  Now, 299 a year. Do I have to get? Do I get hit up for a subscription in year two? Or this includes it?

• 49:44Speaker 07

  No, this includes what comes with the the app experience, because we really want to just drive value and people learn along with us.

• 49:53Speaker 00

  You should. Here's my other advice. You know, offer a 299, you know, subscription as long as you got it, the pendant. But then offer like, you know, $10 a month, you know, subscription for three years, and then see if that works, too. You can always play with the pricing.

• 50:08Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah, indeed. Indeed. Everything's on the table.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  Yes. Good luck, Stacy. Hardware previously was hard. Now hardware getting easier in the age of AI. So good luck, Stacy. We appreciate you.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Thanks, Stacy.