All-In Summit Highlights, Schools Could Block Social Media, FTC Chatbot Investigation, and Zoox hits Vegas | E2177

Today's show: On Friday's TWiST, Jason, Alex, and Lon look back at some highlights from this week's big All-In Summit in Los Angeles, including a fiery, no holds barred presentation from Palantir CEO Alex Karp, Elon Musk delving into the key challenges facing Optimus, and Tucker Carlson debating Mark Cuban on Ukraine. PLUS… why schools may start blocking social media apps, the FTC's new investigation into social chatbots, AND omnidirectional Zoox robotaxis are headed to Las Vegas. Timestamps: Welcome back to TWiST! (1:52) Jason's thoughts on the killing of Charlie Kirk (10:34) Squarespace - Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://www. Squarespace.com/TWIST (10:52) Show Continues … (12:15) Reacting to All-In Summit highlights (Elon Musk, Alex Karp, Tucker Carlson, Mark Cuban) (21:23) AWS Activate - AWS Activate helps startups bring their ideas to life. Apply to AWS Activate today to learn more. Visit https://www.aws.amazon.com/startups/credits (22:18) Show Continues … (26:09) Palantir, Alex Karp, and debate dynamics (31:03) Public - Take your investing to the next level with Public. Build a multi-asset portfolio and earn 4.1% APY on your cash—with no fees or minimums. Start now at public.com/twist (32:13) Show Continues … (45:03) How the internet used AI tools to make sense of Charlie Kirk's death (56:22) Why Jason thinks it's smart to block social media during school hours (1:03:43) The FTC chatbot investigation leaves out Anthropic's Claude… here's why (1:13:27) Zoox robotaxis make their Vegas debut… Here's how they're different from Waymo (1:19:38) Are Tesla robotaxis headed for CA soon? Polymarket says… maybe (1:27:21) Closing remarks and banter Subscribe to the TWiST500 newsletter: https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.com Check out the TWIST500: https://www.twist500.com Subscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple: https://rb.gy/v19fcp Follow Lon: X: https://x.com/lons Follow Alex: X: https://x.com/alex LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelm Follow Jason: X: https://twitter.com/Jason LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis Thank you to our partners: Squarespace - Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://www. Squarespace.com/TWIST AWS Activate - AWS Activate helps startups bring their ideas to life. Apply to AWS Activate today to learn more. Visit https://www.aws.amazon.com/startups/credits Public - Take your investing to the next level with Public. Build a multi-asset portfolio and earn 4.1% APY on your cash—with no fees or minimums. Start now at public.com/twist Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland Check out Jason's suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis Follow TWiST: Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisweekinstartups TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thisweekinstartups Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com Subscribe to the Founder University Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@founderuniversity1916

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jason Calacanis?

  We could all disagree about so many things, but the senseless murder is just, there's no place for this. And it's a, it's a, it's in no way going to change what those kids are going to go through. But we made a donation here on behalf of the This Week in Startups family to Charlie Kirk's kids' funds and encourage everybody to do the same. And gosh, you know, there's nothing to say here other than I'm thinking about his family. And we're all thinking about that. And senseless murders for trying to model debate on college campuses is senseless,

• 0:39Jason Calacanis?

  tragic, infuriating and depressing. And it's time for leadership from everybody who is part of these debates to step up and just say, there's no room for this.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  This Week in Startups is brought to you by Public. You take investing seriously. Public does too. Build a multi-asset portfolio and earn an industry-leading 4.1% APY on your cash with no fees or minimums. Learn more at public.com/twist. AWS Activate. AWS Activate helps startups bring their ideas to life. As you build and scale your business, Activate credits grow with you to support your changing needs. Apply to AWS Activate today and receive up to $100,000

• 1:29Speaker 01

  in credits. Visit aws.amazon.com/startups/credits. And Squarespace. Turn your idea into a beautiful website. Go to Squarespace.com/twist for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

• 1:51Jason Calacanis?

  All right, everybody. Welcome back to This Week in Startups. I apologize for not shaving today and not being suited up, gentlemen. I am on the road. No rest for the weary. Had the amazing All In Summit Monday, Tuesday. An incredible celebration of vibrant debate. And we'll get into that. We'll have some videos of it. But I had to go Wednesday in order to book Vlad, my friend from Robin Hood, Alex. I said, hey, you got to come to the summit. Things are going great. Let's chop it up. He said, of course, but I'll come next year because I have the Robin Hood Summit in Vegas on. And I said, well, what days is that? He said, Tuesday, Wednesday. I said, perfect. Come Monday. He's like, well, it's a

• 2:34Jason Calacanis?

  bit much for me to come Monday and then go to Vegas. I got this big thing. It's a production. I should probably be out there the day before, yada, yada. But I'll make it happen for you, Jacob. And I said, oh, that's my guy. All right. He remembers that I put that insignificance check in. Before they launched, thank you for the ski house. And if a 10x is from here, thank you for. The ski mounted. Thank you for the, thank you for the upgrade to Yellowstone Club. Putting all that aside, he said, but I have a request for you. And I said, oh, that's fine. Anything you need a tweet or something, some air cow.

• 3:12Jason Calacanis?

  And he said, no, I want you to do the closing keynote for my event on Wednesday. You know, me and you on stage, you know, you're, you're, you're a big hit these days. And sure enough, I had to then wake up on Wednesday. After being out dancing to Diplo at Universal Studios for the closing party. Got to bed at 1 a.m. Got up at seven. To the airport with me, but got to fly Jet Sweet X, which is quite delightful and zip, zip. To Vegas and then had a nice keynote there and then had dinner with Jared Leto, a friend of mine and Vlad's. And a couple of other folks at Carbone. Oh. Mmm, Carbone delicious. Unbelievable. And we'll get into all that.

• 3:56Jason Calacanis?

  But here I am in back in Los Angeles. My mother in law had her birthday party. She's just so delightful. Couldn't ask for a better second mom than I got a pretty great mom myself, which leads me just to a quick opening statement. I woke up today profoundly sad. Just a huge weight thinking about those two poor kids growing up without their dad. And so I just want to send

• 4:19Speaker 02

  You're talking about Charlie Kirk.

• 4:21Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. And I just want to say to Charlie Kirk's family, we're thinking about you and a lot of my friends are personal friends with him. And, you know, I've tried to balance out people's feelings about politics and vibrant debate here on this week in startups and obviously on all in. And, you know, could probably disagree, you know, Charlie and I, Sacks and I, and any number of people, you and I, Alex even, Lon, we could all disagree about so many things, but the senseless murder is just, there's no place for this. And it's a, it's a, it's in no way going to change what those kids are going to go through. But

• 5:06Jason Calacanis?

  we made a donation here on behalf of the This Week in Startups family to Charlie Kirk's kids' funds and encourage everybody to do the same. And gosh, you know, there's nothing to say here other than I'm thinking about his family and we're all thinking about that. And senseless murders for trying to model debate on college campuses is senseless, tragic, infuriating and depressing. And it's time for leadership from everybody who is part of these debates to step up and just say, there's no room for this and it's unacceptable.

• 5:46Jason Calacanis?

  And they're they're just not the kind to play the clip game or the what about game. It's the time to be sad and to think about those kids. And I don't really have anything else I could possibly say here. Except I'm sad. Yeah, Alex, of course, I know you have feelings as well because you're part of the vibrant debate in the American experiment, and I know you care deeply about this.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know enormously. Also, I've got kids too. So you know, you think about that. Just to everyone out there who who gets a lot of emotional impact or resonance when major news events like this happen, just a reminder that if you take your phone and you turn it off and you put it down and you walk outside and put the sun on your face, you get some more perspective. And I literally still do this with myself. So during the during the breaking news cycle of this horrible week, I did quite a lot of that. I put on the way to vest for a while. I took the kids to the park. And you just need to get a little distance from things. Remind yourself that the world is mostly as it was. Tragedies happen, but I think I think we can all get a little bit caught up in them, in the discussion about them. And I think, I think we've seen some deleted tweets today, which is probably a positive sign.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  But just a reminder that going outside and touching grass is a meme, but it's also a very good piece of mental health advice.

• 6:58Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, I think maybe a little meditation and reflection and journaling, any of that stuff could be helpful. I haven't slept for you know, I mean, partially through my schedule, but also just woke up thinking about this. And yeah, Lon, I don't know if you have any thing other than sadness.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  It is very sad. Clearly, I was not a a fan of Mr. Kirk's, his rhetoric or his style. But I think what's so important to stress is that this kind of political violence is not just immoral, not just wrong, not just leads to more violence and it's a vicious cycle. Intensely counterproductive. No matter who you are, what side of the spectrum you're on, there are 100,000 other people who will be more than happy to take over Charlie Kirk's audience, reinforce Charlie Kirk's message. It's not like you get these messages to go away. All you do is raise the temperature, continue this cycle of more and more vengeance,

• 8:03Speaker 02

  more and more anger, more and more violence. It achieves nothing. It creates only destruction. And that doesn't, it doesn't matter how you feel about Charlie Kirk and what he was particularly saying. You don't, you can't, that's not a solution. No matter what somebody's message is, shooting them is not a solution. It only makes things worse. And I think that's, that's the feeling that I come out of this. You know, a lot of people are trying to sort of make it a larger reflection of, well, it's this political debate, or it's that, or it's about this, or this is the theme we should take away. And to me, that's the only theme. It's like, you can't ever move forward by shooting somebody. That's not how it works.

• 8:41Jason Calacanis?

  It's got to end, folks. All right. So we'll take a deep breath here and

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Change the tone a little bit.

• 8:48Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's heavy, folks. I get it. And I get a lot of people are suffering. So we're, we're with you. We're all Americans. We're all humans. Some of us are parents. All of us are sons and daughters. So.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:00Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Jason, though, before, before the awful part of the week,

• 9:05Jason Calacanis?

  Yep.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  You had the All In Summit.

• 9:07Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Big thing in your calendar every year. A lot of people showed up. I was home with the kids changing diapers sadly, but you and Lon were there on site. So, you know, for everyone out there like me who wasn't there, take me through it. How'd it go? What was best talk? Best moments?

• 9:20Jason Calacanis?

  You know, the theme of it was vibrant debate and speaking up for what you believe in, which is, you know, quite paradoxical and resonates even more.

• 9:31Jason Calacanis?

  After Charlie Kirk's murder assassination.

• 9:36Jason Calacanis?

  And, you know, for me, it's like intellectual Disneyland for kids, you know, like it's an intellectual vacation for me. I get to not only hang out with all my besties I had Lon there, you know, one of my best friends over the last 25 years, helping me with the docket, helping me with my jokes. People always like wonder, oh, you're so witty. And it's like, well, Lon and I are witty and we have a, you're getting there, Alex, but you know, we'll keep.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  I can't hold a candle. Lon's the funniest writer we have at Twist.

• 10:07Jason Calacanis?

  Absolutely. So he workshops everything with me, but I was also lucky to have Amanda from the league and my friend Will Barnes from Uber make the trip out and be part of my little writer's room where we workshopped all the, you know, different important questions we could ask to folks. And so when you see me on All In or you see me, and I got this incredible compliments.

• 10:35Jason Calacanis?

  If you want your business to succeed online, it has to stand out. And that's why you need a beautiful world-class website. The good news is you don't have to hire an expensive designer anymore, nor do you need a bunch of developers. No, Squarespace has all the tools you need to claim your domain and start building your company. Hey, maybe you got a product to sell. Maybe you want to show off some samples of your work. Maybe you've got a new service you're providing. Well, Squarespace is the all-in-one tool you need for your business to grow and flourish. And they offer beautiful templates. Maybe you want to start an online course or you're scheduling appointments for people. Maybe you're generating client invoices. All of that is built into the product. Everything you create with Squarespace is pre-optimized to show up

• 11:18Jason Calacanis?

  in search engines as well. So you don't need to hire some expensive SEO person. Nope. They're building your meta descriptions. They're setting you up with an auto-generated sitemap and the SEO is done before you even get started. Plus, there's a new AI-powered feature. It's called Blueprint, which makes it easier than ever before to customize your website and make it really pop. So check out Squarespace.com/twist for a free trial and when you're ready. To launch. Go to Squarespace.com/ Twist to get 10% off your first website or domain purchase. That's Squarespace.com/ Twist. Lon, which is a tribute to your contribution and Amanda, my wife Jade, Will Barnes, all who helped me think about, hey, you know, I get two questions, maybe with my three other besties

• 12:01Jason Calacanis?

  there, we each get to get maybe two questions. And so I want to make them count and I want to make them important for a positive discourse. And, you know, it's got some wonderful compliments from people who said I was on the top of my game. And really, that's because I don't have to run the event anymore in the logistics. And we have an incredible team, John Howe, Kimber, producer Nick, and just everybody down the line. There's a dozen people working over at All In to make that event spectacular for, I don't know, it was 3,500 or 4,000 people. They're literally double last year.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  It was about 3,500 people, they said. And I mean, it was amazing to be backstage and how tight everything was. The amount of people coming through, going up on stage, coordinating, there was a whole documentary crew making behind the scenes footage, security, I mean.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  So I was about to say, security. When you have a lot of people going through a back, a green room or backstage, that's, that's tricky.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  A lot of security. Parts of this production were amazing. I mean, there was so much going on. It was really impressive to see it all come together.

• 13:01Jason Calacanis?

  Super next level. And, you know, a lot of important discussions. My bestie Elon showed up for me for the fourth year in a row. So I really appreciate that. You know, you can, you really tell your, who your friends are. You, you know, have a show and you're like, hey, just always, I always tell him, like, you know, if it, if it, if it's good for you and you want to hang with the boys, you know, I'd love to have you. And I don't obviously put any pressure on him because he's super busy running 752 different projects. And he always just says the same thing. Okay.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Sure. Do you want to, do you want to play the clip? Oh, we do have a clip from Elon. Yeah, I, I don't know what the clips are, but sure. Let's play the clip here. Law and why don't you talk us through what I'm about to show as I pull it up? Yeah.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  Uh, well, which Elon clip is this, Oliver? I don't remember.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Oh, this is the humanoid robots Starlink. Oh, okay, great. Yeah, sure.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I think this is the part he was talking about, the, the difficulties and complexities of humanoid robots.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  All right, here we go.

• 13:58Jason Calacanis?

  Optimus is, um, I think going to be the greatest, uh, product in the history of humanity. What's the progress like and how much of your, how many of your cycles are going specifically to Optimus? What's the timeline? I think you're on version three, maybe four. Tell us everything.

• 14:21Speaker 03

  Uh, well, yeah, no, everything would take a long time.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  We've got time.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  Um, we're, we're finalizing the design of Optimus version three. And, uh, that, that really is going to be a very remarkable robot. It will have the, essentially the manual dexterity of a human, so meaning a very complex hand. Um, it, the, a, an AI mind that can navigate and comprehend reality. And we made in very high volume. Uh, those are the three things that are missing. Like if you see any other, um, robotics, uh, company, they're missing those three things.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Those are the three really hard things. And, uh, I, I spend actually at this point.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  It might be more of my mental cycles than anything else, any other single thing on Optimus. That's solving for real world AI, all of the electromechanical issues of Optimus, the supply chain and production challenges of it, because there is no supply chain that exists for humanoid robots. So it has to be, we have to recreate it from scratch, and which requires doing a lot of vertical integration. None of the actuators in Optimus are available from an existing supply chain. So, but I think it is accurate to say that if successful,

• 16:10Speaker 03

  Optimus will be the biggest product ever.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  There you have it. I mean, that was a theme that came up a lot, actually, was the sort of connection between AI and robotics and how the whole robotics industry is sort of waiting for AI to like, get to the point where these robots can sort of begin training themselves and we can automate the training a lot more like that. That came up, I think, a few times during different presentations.

• 16:38Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. And Alex, obviously, you and I have discussed this in granular detail.

• 16:44Jason Calacanis?

  The real magic here, and why I think Elon's got a tremendous advantage is, he knows more about factories than anyone with the possible contemporary of, say, like the Apple, right? There's really only two people in the world, the team at Apple and Elon's team, that have done at-scale creation of factories to make at-scale products like an Optimus or a smartphone.

• 17:16Jason Calacanis?

  You then have at the same time, you have to put a brain, right? So if you start thinking about this Wizard of Oz style, you know, it's got to have the courage and dexterity of the lion to be able to move the arms, right? Okay, so that's a unique challenge that Elon hasn't done before. Because that doesn't exist, like say, in a Tesla or in a rocket. However, the factory to make things is something that he is just unprecedented in his firsthand experience. So then you look at the brain. If he only had a brain. And that brain comes from, who's the, who's the brain? The Tin Man, I guess, yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Scarecrow.

• 17:54Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, no, Scarecrow. If I only had a brain.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Tin Man needs a heart.

• 17:57Jason Calacanis?

  Tin Man needs a heart, okay. So, you know, if I only had a brain. And, you know, in that case, Grok, ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, the brain is being worked on. And then you have vision, which real, and you have the real world vision, not just, oh, here's a flat picture, but hey, something is moving through space. So who has moving through space? Tesla, Waymo. There's a small cohort of people who are moving through space in real time with very sophisticated chipsets and computer vision assessing the world. Now, they're assessing the world at 55 miles an hour, at 35 miles an hour. You know, with thousands of pounds of steel moving around.

• 18:39Jason Calacanis?

  This is going to move around at three or four miles per hour, five miles per hour, maybe eventually like, yeah, four or five miles per hour would be probably the top speed you'd want these things to go at, like a jog. And probably even then, that won't be until version six, seven or eight that they'll, you'd actually want them, even if you could technically do it to run, it would do it. So really interesting, you know, the position he's in. And, you know, having known Elon for 25 years, I can tell when he's deep in it. By, this is my Elon towel, after countless dinners together is when he goes and he looks down or looks up, puts his hand on his chin and he's thinking, because he's not thinking about my question. He's parallel processing 17 problems and cycling through them.

• 19:23Jason Calacanis?

  The actuator, the forearm, the computer vision. He is thinking about these things. Got a very active brain and he parallel processes them. So I do think if anybody's going to make this into, you know, a billion unit product, it's going to be him. And I do believe we'll be sitting here in 20 years. Hopefully, if we're all still here and saying, yeah, Tesla used to work on cars. They were a car company, remember that? And you're just going to be like, oh yeah, they had a car line. Yeah, they still have that, right? It's going to be almost like, you know, the merch store compared to the cars is what we're going to look at the cars. It's like, oh yeah, you can also buy Tesla branded car or tequila if you want. But but your optimist is going to be really the show.

• 20:08Jason Calacanis?

  And they're going to be able to produce these for $1 an hour. All in, maintenance, support, et cetera. Right? So you start thinking about that, you know, 10,000 hours a year at a dollar an hour, 10,000 hours a year or something like that. I don't know how many hours in a year, but you know, close to 10. So that's pretty miraculous if you think about it. Alex, any thoughts as we move on to our next clip? And maybe you can take the next clip, yeah?

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, very briefly, I just wanted to throw in, we didn't get to talk about it because we didn't have the live news show earlier this week. But Alibaba dropped an R1 robot earlier this week. So just lots of competition out there and the startups in the 2500 are Aptronic, OneX and Figure are three names to put out there in the giant robot game. So, I mean, we talk a lot about optimists on the show for obvious reasons, but startups are also barking up the same tree.

• 20:53Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 20:59Jason Calacanis?

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• 21:44Jason Calacanis?

  Okay. And shutting down. AWS knows this. That's why they've created the ultimate toolkit for early-stage startups looking to boost growth. With AWS Activate, you're going to get up to $100,000 in AWS credits, hands-on support and training, plus exclusive discounts with some of our favorite companies and tools. So start getting the support you need at every stage of your startup journey. To learn more, visit aws.amazon.com/startups/credits. That's right, aws.amazon.com/startups/credits. Yeah, it's going to be a pretty vibrant fight. Twist500.com to see the 500 most important private market companies, private only.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Shout out to producer Claude, 8,760 hours in a regular year.

• 22:32Jason Calacanis?

  So I think these things.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Overestimated.

• 22:34Jason Calacanis?

  I think anybody would pay a dollar an hour to have these, $24 a day. Maybe they work 23 and they charge for an hour. But you could imagine when you're asleep, it could be doing the yard work. You could imagine while you're sleeping, it could be walking to the grocery store and picking up fresh croissant for you at 6:01 a.m. when your bakery opens and the robotic, the optimist behind the counter will give you your pan of chocolat and walk it home to you.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  I'd pay a lot more than $1 an hour for someone to carry my croissant back to me. Let me tell you, because currently I do it myself and it sucks.

• 23:09Jason Calacanis?

  All right, next up.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Moving on, social media bans and investigations. Jason, this is something that you flagged directly. There is a new bill in the House from Representative Angie Craig called the No Social Media at School Act.

• 23:22Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, we're going to do a couple more guest segments from the show.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Oh, I thought you wanted us to move on to the next story. I'm sorry, Jason.

• 23:28Jason Calacanis?

  Next clip.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  I got a few more. So Alex Karp was on there and he's, you know, he's got, he's a high-energy guy. He's got a lot of bold opinions. He is not afraid to tell the besties if he doesn't like their question and he's going to answer a different question.

• 23:44Jason Calacanis?

  That was great.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was, he was certainly a very active and engaging speaker. So here he is just responding to criticisms and complaints about his company, Palantir Technologies.

• 23:58Speaker 04

  Palantir, like, there's a technical version, which I'm gonna give you, but we had a democratic administration come to us and basically ask us to do a Muslim database. Now, you would think, given the way I'm kind of besmirched as like some kind of, I don't know, it's like a Jewish conspiracy, that would be the first thing, according to them, I would do. We've never done anything like this. I've never done anything like this. To actually understand the answer, and I love these questions about the skeptics, like, I actually love skeptics. Like, I tend to divide the world into, you have Palantir Derangement System Syndrome, which I don't spend a lot of time on, and I think they're anti-builder. You have Palantir skeptics, and you have people who don't like Palantir. If you're a Palantir skeptic

• 24:43Speaker 04

  or you don't like us, I want to engage. And that, any technology that works can be abused. We are the single worst technology to use to abuse civil liberties, which is, by the way, the reason why we could never get the NSA or the FBI to actually buy our product. And until recently, like, SIGINT institutions would never buy our product. Yeah, you laugh, because it's like, obvious. If you want to do data analytics in a way that eviscerates our civil liberties, you don't want ACLS, you don't want branching, you don't want pipelining, in more like-

• 25:16Speaker 02

  You don't want logs?

• 25:17Speaker 04

  You don't want logs, and like, you don't want serialization and deserialization in your product. If you have serialization and deserialization in your product that's intelligible, you are basically creating a product that's gonna be really, really hard to abuse. And the logs are immutable in Palantir. So, like, and by the way, the single most civil liberties-heavy place in the world is hating on us every day. And you know what they're buying every day? Palantir. It's called Europe. And you know why? Just sorry, I want to get to this, because this is important. Because I get basically attacked by skeptics-

• 25:47Speaker 02

  This is what the whole thing was like.

• 25:48Speaker 04

  And anti-Palantir people that deserve any, and by the way, do not, this is a lesson for you. Do not believe anything I'm saying. And if you're online, watching, I don't know, Nick Fuentes call me the Jewish conspiracy, do yourself a favor, and say, yeah, that could be really interesting. Spend 20 minutes looking at the product. 20 minutes looking at the product and say, is this not the hardest product to abuse in the world?

• 26:10Jason Calacanis?

  So what he's referring to here, Alex, is, and he used a bunch of different words for it, Chamath correctly, you know, did the right thing by doing it, to just say logs. If you want to use certain products, you always see in detective films, you know, like the mob guy saying, I need you to run a couple of license plates for me. Some detective who's, you know, got gambling debts runs a couple of license plates, gives it to them. And they ask their friend who works on the computer, you know, it's a little bit of a high risk behavior because, hey, why did you run these people's license plates? You got to explain it and who asked you to do it. You know, in previous iterations of software, et cetera, there were ways to do that without having a bell go off. In Palantir and these

• 26:52Jason Calacanis?

  other products, they've designed it so, you know, you have the history of this person, you have all the different data, and you can think of it like a blockchain. Sure. You can't abuse it because you have to log in. They're probably using biometrics when you log in. I'm just taking a guess and speculating here. So if you build a system really redundantly where, you know, it checks your thumbprint, your iris, you know, two factor, all that kind of great stuff. You can't be like, I checked on my ex and their whereabouts using Palantir because it will send an alarm. And then those logs get checked by other people. So I think he makes a great point. You did see all, a lot of facial contortions from

• 27:33Jason Calacanis?

  different besties, including myself, because at one point Chamath just said a really funny thing. He's like, you know, I just want to say one more thing. Chamath just said something to the effect of, I just want to ask a question. And he's like, and then he admonished me. I was like, well, you know, to my original question. He's like, yeah, your original question is not important. I said, you know, you kind of like broke it out into 17 questions. Yeah, that's because your original question was bad. I don't know if he said my question was bad or not good.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, he did. He said your original question was bad. He's like, no, it wasn't a good question. So I reformatted it into something interesting.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  It's incredible, though, to see someone out, and I say this with love, out yap the yappers. Like, I mean, you guys are good at talking. And then he was just about to fall off his couch drinking a full sugar Mexican Coke, just riffing.

• 28:15Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, the full sugar Mexican Coke. I did get a good one liner in where I said, I'll patch and I offered him one of Tucker's patches. He said, donate it. Yeah.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  I was about to say unnecessary. If there's ever a person who did not need to have an upper.

• 28:28Jason Calacanis?

  Well, and I was sitting here a year ago on my Disney vacation last year, you know, in Los Angeles. And at dinner last night, my, my brother-in-law reminded me that I told my wife Palantir is overpriced at $25 when she bought it. And it makes no sense because it's, you know, 50 times the revenue or whatever it was at the time. Price to sales ratio, we talk about that stuff. And here she is. I don't know if the stock's at 150 or something outstanding.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  I regret to inform you, Jason, it's at 17122. So you need to resign and give your wife.

• 28:59Jason Calacanis?

  So my wife's at 7X on this bet, you know, like she really is like one of the great traders of all time. She bought Roblox at $40. She bought. Uh, she's made some real estate deals that doubled in five, six, seven years. And she bought Palantir and she bought Bitcoin at a buck 50. So $150. So she's an incredible trader and even though my Uber and Robinhood investments are one and two in our portfolio. I think she's three, four, five. So shout out to my amazingly beautiful and intelligent and deft investor wife Jade.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  So guess, guess what the price sales multiple for Palantir is right now?

• 29:34Jason Calacanis?

  It's gotta be over a hundred, right?

• 29:36Speaker 01

  121. 121.

• 29:39Jason Calacanis?

  But here's the thing, if, you know, we have seen Nvidia and other stocks do that kind of movement. When they are sitting there building, building, building a great product and the market then embraces it. And the founder finds some huge innovation. And I think the huge innovation with Palantir. And again, there's tons of conspiracy theories. He points out the derangement syndrome. He points out, you know, there are skeptics and all that stuff and he loves it all. But, um, you know, the bottom line is people need, and the future of war.

• 30:12Jason Calacanis?

  Being anti-terrorist, etc., is going to be AI. And if you're building platforms that are just flat databases to kind of try and accomplish anything, they'll be dwarfed, just like Optimus powered by AI will dwarf those. So it was really a treat to have him there. And he was incredibly generous. You can always tell like a speaker's character by how they behave when they wind up backstage and everybody asks for a selfie, whatever. My wife was backstage and she just introduced herself and he was incredibly kind to her, took five or 10 minutes in his busy schedule to talk to her and then invited her to come on a tour of Palantir. So I just want to say thank you to Alex. I judge people on their, the absolutely unnecessary interactions backstage that they could

• 30:57Jason Calacanis?

  easily skip with their security and being flown to a private area.

• 31:05Jason Calacanis?

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• 31:47Jason Calacanis?

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• 32:21Speaker 02

  He's a very gregarious guy. Amanda, too, had really enjoyed his presentation and as soon as he came, like literally, she's tenacious. The moment he came backstage, she was like in his face, like, great job. And he chatted with her and sort of gave her the whole kind of spiel and, you know. Yeah, a very, regardless of how you feel about him and his company.

• 32:42Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, it's like Robin Williams. He's like Robin Williams combined with, you know, Sergey or Larry Page, you know, like those are maybe slightly understated cerebral brilliant guys. You know, and then you have him cerebral, but highly extroverted, highly verbal, willing to engage.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  It's a rare combination to see. You don't tend to see those two overlap as much as they do in this case.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  I do kind of feel like it's a meme stock, like not that, not that they're not doing business, you know, making money, whatever, but I do feel like there is an element of meme stock just because he's that guy. Like, and I feel like people see him speak and they get excited about him.

• 33:22Jason Calacanis?

  It's a great topic. Yeah, it's a great topic to unpack, which is retail investors and their vision. I think the retail investors can, you know, were playing fun games with GameStop and AMC. But now I think they're quite sophisticated and when they assess a company like Palantir, Tesla, Open Door, hopefully someday Uber, hopefully they've done it to Robin Hood clearly. I benefit from the Robin Hood one. Not that I'm, I'm banking on, you know, that kind of fervor. But they do tend to have an optimism and they vote with their dollars and that means,

• 34:04Jason Calacanis?

  you know, you could have shenanigans that we saw with GameStop and AMC where they're, they're trying to use the float or some technical things to outlast people shorting stocks. Put all that aside, Tesla queue, that'll happen. Now we're entered a phase two of meme stocks, which I think is manifest stocks instead of meme stocks. They manifest that this company could break new ground by doing the following things. Replacing the CEO. So I Yolo'd, as I said here on the pod, a cranberry 25K into Open Door. And I told you what I was going to do, right, gentlemen? I said, I'm going to cover my base. I'm going to put in some limit orders. So I sold like a thousand shares. I tweeted it at six, seven, eight or nine dollars. I can't remember.

• 34:47Jason Calacanis?

  I just put those in the second I bought it and I said, I'm going to get 2,000 shares for free. Cause these people are lunatics and they will get it to $10 a share. Sure enough, it broke down yesterday. All my limit orders were filled and now I'm sitting on 2,000 free shares. And 20, 20 grand for free. And they also replaced the CEO. They brought back Keith Raboy. Keith Raboy was on CNBC today, you know, and re-engaged. So what they're doing is they're saying, hey, there's this carcass over here and this great potential called Open Door that y'all don't see. It's too low. If you got Keith Raboy, a proper CEO, and you compensated them properly. And you use these assets, you could actually build something really important here.

• 35:27Jason Calacanis?

  The original vision for Open Door was brilliant and they've got some other ideas around fractional ownership, blockchain ownership. I hear around letting people buy into, you know, rental properties, et cetera, which is a good business, actually. Historically, so they, they, they're different now. They're really sharp and they put, they put in their homework. Now they also have fun and they try to create an army and they do stunts to get attention. But, um, you know, all that energy then winds up with people knowing and understanding the company. One of the great complaints, Alex, as you know, is I can't, even though we have half as many stocks, the, some stocks can't get coverage. So if nobody will cover Open Door, or, you know, I Yolo'd into Nextdoor a couple of years ago.

• 36:12Jason Calacanis?

  And I've been waiting for that one to, to get picked up because I do think that's a, got the same kind of potential. They do bring that energy for people and then I think it energizes management to, you know, maybe reconstruct the management team. And these don't become forgotten zombie stocks. And that's pretty interesting to me. Your thoughts, Alex?

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Well, I think as we have stocks that are worth not just 1 trillion now, companies that are worth 1 trillion, but 2, 3, 4, 5 trillion, if you're a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 billion dollar company, you're just not very big. So you're not going to get as much coverage. But you can take a charismatic leader with a good take on technology where things are going and really lever them to a much larger profile. And not to point any fingers at Box's market cap, but I think Aaron Levie kept that company in the news and in people's minds for years when it was in the wilderness. And to your point about having a manifestation or a place you're going, they've actually done relatively well in the current gen AI era, and they've re-ignited growth and they've made it through the trough of despair. But would that have happened without someone like a Keith, like an Aaron out there kind of beating the drum? I don't think so. So I think, I think these

• 37:18Speaker 01

  individual leaders can, can really matter. Palantir incredibly valuable. Would I buy it right now at 125x trailing revenue? Probably not, because I'm cheap. But I'm glad people are having fun. Shout out to Palantir for, I forget the number offhand, but I think their US Gov revenue grew like 50 some percent last quarter is excellent.

• 37:35Jason Calacanis?

  Awesome. Okay, we, we're, we're running along here on time here with this clip. So maybe we'll do, we'll, we'll do some more clips on Monday, but maybe pick, pick, pick your favorite of the next four or so, Lon.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Oh, I think we gotta do-

• 37:47Jason Calacanis?

  Ladies' Choice, as we say.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  I think Tucker versus Mark Cuban is the, is where we end up today.

• 37:53Jason Calacanis?

  Costplusdrugs.com.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, we had Mark Cuban came out, we talked a lot about Costplusdrugs.com, his online pharmacy and his issues-

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Was that .com Lon?

• 38:02Jason Calacanis?

  It is the .com, yes. No spaces, no dashes.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  .com. And then we brought out, or they brought out Tucker Carlson to sort of mix it up with Mark Cuban in real time. A lot, a lot got covered. It was a, it was a wide ranging talk, but the, the clip we pulled was the two of them. This is actually blown up on MAGA social media. They're discussing specifically the conflict in Ukraine. They have very different takes on America's involvement. I'll let the clip take it from here.

• 38:32Speaker 05

  All right, let's do it.

• 38:35Speaker 05

  Mark, let me ask you a question. What's your take on whether we should be sending money to Ukraine or not? Were you in favor of that?

• 38:43Speaker 06

  Man, they need it.

• 38:43Speaker 07

  I mean, honestly,

• 38:44Speaker 06

  Don't audit it.

• 38:45Speaker 07

  I don't have a good answer. You know, I can make an argument both ways. And half my family is Ukrainian, from my grandparents. And so, you know, personally, I think we should help. But I don't have a studied answer for you.

• 38:58Speaker 06

  Have you, so how much money have you sent to Ukraine?

• 38:59Speaker 07

  None.

• 39:00Speaker 06

  Oh, so what do you mean by we?

• 39:03Speaker 06

  You're the one whose family's from Ukraine. Like, why don't you send them a billion dollars? Because I'm trying to fix healthcare. Why don't you fix their healthcare if you're like so deep? If you think we need to help, why don't you start? How about you first? I notice that's never like even an option for anybody. It's like, we need to help. That's not what charity is. Forcing other people to help is not charity. It's vanity.

• 39:23Jason Calacanis?

  The good news is, all the weapons were on loan lease. We're getting it back. And our dear president, Trump, has negotiated that we own half the minerals. So he turned this horrible, tragic war into a profit center, which is one of his unique gifts. I think we can all agree. All right, so.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  I am shocked that as we pulled the Tucker Carlson clip, what we had was a bad faith argument punching against someone who's trying to make the world a slightly better place because nothing to me says Tucker like being a complete bleep, bleep. Yeah.

• 39:56Jason Calacanis?

  Well, you know, here.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  You can cut that out, but oh my God, what a fucking smarmy asshole.

• 40:02Jason Calacanis?

  You really feel Alex. Here's something I'll say about Tucker. Because I do get a lot of feedback on like Tucker being good. He's an entertainer. I'm fine with having entertaining people who are bombastic on All In. And I don't mind anybody speaking. What I did think it was necessary for me to correct the record because there's a little cherry picking that occurs. And hey, hey, we're talking about vibrant debate at the top of the show. He's a great vibrant debate. It's important we have these. And it's important for somebody like me, who is a moderate independent, call balls and strikes and remind people it was a loan lease. Trump enforced the loan lease. Biden set the loan lease. And Trump actually negotiated like plus, plus, plus on top of it. So this argument that like, anybody needs to worry that we're not going to get our money back.

• 40:47Jason Calacanis?

  Just like World War II, we got all the rebuild contracts. We did fine with the loan lease we did with the UK and other folks. So.

• 40:55Jason Calacanis?

  I think, you know, Mark, Mark's reaction maybe is genuine, you know, you can only focus on so many things in the world. Okay, that's fine. Tucker makes a good point. That charity starts at home. Fine for him to bring it up. I don't necessarily consider it bad faith. There's a little bit of a, you know, debate club between, you know, for folks like Mark and Ezra and Cuban and Rachel Mara. They're all like the debate club folks who love to debate these things and they use that like personal technique. Oh, you know, are you doing it personally, etc. Putting all those techniques aside, we do all, and I sent this tweet out to just give a little coverage for Mark and fairness and balance it out.

• 41:39Jason Calacanis?

  We all pay into taxes. Mark has paid more taxes than anybody on that stage, I'm sure. And those taxes go then to our leaders who then make thoughtful decisions of where to send stuff. It's not like Mark can legally form a militia or back a militia to do this or donate extra taxes earmarked in our democracy for weapons for Ukraine. That's just not how it works, folks. And so, you know, I, I thought it was an entertaining exchange. I think it's good for people to think about these things and I'm fine with a little bit of the debate club back and forth.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no. I'm not saying don't have them.

• 42:16Jason Calacanis?

  Let's let Lon have a swing at it.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  I do wish that people understood or this distinction sunk. We were talking about Charlie Kirk. We've talked about, you know, you've had Ben Shapiro on All In, Megyn Kelly.

• 42:31Jason Calacanis?

  Ezra Klein.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Ezra Klein.

• 42:33Jason Calacanis?

  I'm sorry, who was the former, who came on?

• 42:35Speaker 02

  Larry Summers.

• 42:36Jason Calacanis?

  Larry Summers. So it's not just, and we had Dean Phillips and we had Reid Hoffman.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 42:42Jason Calacanis?

  And Mark Cuban.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  It's a very diverse group.

• 42:44Jason Calacanis?

  We've had both sides.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  I think what I was gonna say is less about the partisanship is that these people are all professional broadcasters and entertainers and masters of the algorithm and social media, how to get. How to be very culturally loud, how to get a lot of people's attention. That's what they're good at. We remark this every time. Behind the scenes, Nick and I talk about this all the time. When we have a guest on All In who is a professional broadcaster, a Ben Shapiro, a Tucker Carlson, a Ezra Klein, somebody who spends their whole career talking into a microphone on a camera like I'm doing now, and I think this is true, as much as I disagreed with him, I think this is true of Charlie Kirk as well, you get so good at how to, how to speak in a compelling way, how to grab people's attention, how to say something

• 43:26Speaker 02

  funny at the right moment, how to say something sincere at the right moment, how to calibrate your appearance, that it makes you extraordinarily compelling, regardless of the content of what you're saying. And I think that's what you can really see on stage. Like, Mark Cuban's a smart guy with a lot of good things to say, but he does not have that 20, 200,000 hours behind the mic and camera like Tucker Carlson has, and it just makes him a force. Like,

• 43:50Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, you watch Ezra Klein, you know, Ezra Klein is, I don't know that he's ever built a product or service in the world. I don't know that he started a company or been a builder or a capital allocator.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Vox Media, he co-founded Vox Media.

• 44:04Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, he did, actually. But I don't think he was involved in that.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  I don't think he was running it day to day.

• 44:10Jason Calacanis?

  He wasn't a business guy, is sort of my point, but he is an incredibly gifted debater, and Ben, he's super compelling, and you know he's compelling when both sides hate him. The left hates Ezra Klein for, you know, half his editorials, the right hates him for the other half, and

• 44:26Speaker 02

  Today it was, today it was his Charlie Kirk op-ed this morning that's

• 44:29Jason Calacanis?

  Which was, I thought, you know, which, yeah, and I'm just like, okay, he has sympathy and empathy.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  I think he called, he said he was like, he was great at debate, or he was, he was doing debate in the way, the right way, or he was doing politics in the right way, and I think that did rub a lot. If you look at the content of what Charlie Kirk said, I think there was a lot of upsetting stuff there.

• 44:51Jason Calacanis?

  For some people, and I'm, and there's people on the left who say upsetting stuff, let's keep going.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  All right. We did also have the, this is not about Charlie Kirk content wise, but the internet reaction and the use of AI to try to find his killer. Did you want to talk about that? I thought it was

• 45:06Jason Calacanis?

  I think actually this is kind of very interesting, and you know, I think people need to always understand breaking news stories.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:15Jason Calacanis?

  You know, you need to have a skill set as an adult, and even with kids, I would say young adults as well, because they have to process this. And I'm processing it with my daughter, and her friends are all talking about this because Charlie was so dominant in TikTok and short clips, that they're all very aware of him, and they're having their own discussion. In a breaking news story, you really don't know what the circumstances. In fact, even post a breaking news story, we still don't know about the person who shot President Trump. That seemed to have gone away. We never got the recap of that person's motivations.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  I'd love to get a deep dive on that one.

• 45:56Jason Calacanis?

  Well, I think it might be similar to, and I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but you know, it might be, there might be aspects to that that they don't want to release in the same way Unabomber manifesto could motivate people, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm going to give them a little bit of grace there that maybe they made a thoughtful decision in not unpacking that at this time. But there was a lot of speculation, a lot of gumshoe detectives on Reddit.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, the FBI, oh, sorry, go ahead.

• 46:26Jason Calacanis?

  No, I'm just gonna say, if you're just speculate all you like, fine, social media, the mind has to process things. I get it. You know, whenever somebody dies in your immediate family, your mind tries to go through every permutation possible to figure out for you to process the emotions collectively. Unfortunately, while scrolling, I saw the close up video of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, and it's like scarring. And when it, something hits you that emotionally, it's really hard to watch. And I wish I had not seen it, although in some ways, I feel like, I want to say civic duty.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  I managed to avoid it.

• 47:05Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say, it's so scarring, that maybe that's a good idea.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:10Jason Calacanis?

  I could understand people not wanting to see it. And I could understand people wanting to understand exactly how horrific it is to process it as well. And I'm not an expert on it. But you do need to, while you're speculating through this, just hold a little bit of space that there could be any permutation here. Could it be a conspiracy that, you know? The CIA or another intelligence agency could be involved in something? Of course, that's possible, just not probable. Could it be a mentally ill person? Almost certainly, that's what we'll find out. That's almost certainly what happens in these cases is it's somebody who-

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Well, that does seem to be the case this time.

• 47:46Jason Calacanis?

  And that, of course.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Extraordinarily online guy who was just deeply troubled.

• 47:51Jason Calacanis?

  So I don't think we have to ban people from speculating. And there's new AI tools. Maybe it's helpful, actually, when you crowdsource this stuff because you could find the video that maybe the FBI hasn't found yet. But just tell us what people were doing with AI.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, here's the twist. So the FBI posted some blurry images of a person of interest in the shooting. You can see that one on the very far left here of this graphic. And so what people did was they took this image and they tried to enhance it or upscale it using all of our generative AI tools that are so popular now that, you know, people are often using for memes. And you can see here are three examples that people tweeted out. And the thing to notice about these three examples is that they all look very, very different because these generative AI tools, they, I feel like this is a misunderstanding of what these tools do, that people are thinking it's going to extract the authentic

• 48:44Speaker 02

  image from out of these blurry images and make it look clearer to the naked eye. But what the tools are really doing is filling in the details to make it look clearer, smoother, based on previous images they've seen and their best guess as to what this guy's face looked like. So that's why you're getting very, very different. And in fact, you'll notice some of the AI tools rendered his shirt as just random patterns and images. Others turn it into a bald eagle in front of the American flag. I still, I don't think we've got confirmation of what was actually on the shirt. So you could see how this could lead to all sorts of potential problems. If people either don't understand how these tools are working or don't understand how they could use them.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  And I feel like that, to me, is the interesting question. Like, how bad do you think this is going to get? Do you think eventually people will figure out, here's what AI is good at and not?

• 49:37Jason Calacanis?

  Alex, what's your, what's your take there?

• 49:39Speaker 02

  How we could use it?

• 49:39Jason Calacanis?

  I could, I could, I could maybe still man the other side. Maybe these tools- Could come up composites of potential. I'm sure the FBI has tools or, you know, artists. They've always had artists, sketch artists say, you know, here's potential just based on the human averages of what this person could potentially look like. And they could make 10 versions of it based on, you know, a probability of here's what 20, you know, this person is appears to be of this nationality. They're in America. They're in this city. Here's some potentials and then run those potentials against databases of students at and the Facebook or the book face of students at that university. And certainly

• 50:19Jason Calacanis?

  they were doing that. So I guess, how close is the public to being actually helpful here?

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Pretty far away. Pretty far away. I think. Yeah. It might. So I've had the misfortune of having been online through a lot of school shootings and similar acts of violence. And pretty consistently, 90% of what you see and hear and read and is put before you on social media is wrong. That was the case during the catastrophe, the tragedy. And that was also the case again, when the name came out and everyone found the wrong person who had the same name and jumped to nine conclusions and wanted to, you know, make their same point. I don't think we're going to fix human behavior. I think we're always hunting for the why very quickly. And so I think these tools will become part of the conversation. So I would put the onus not on is this kind of the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do. I think it's what humans are going to do. So I think what we

• 51:08Speaker 01

  should really focus on is individual education of ourselves to spot what seems to be legitimate, what is confirmed, what has been reported by several different news groups and what is AI slop that people might be trying to push upon you. And I think as social media becomes more algorithm heavy, I think people get rewarded by the platforms for doing very poor detective work. And so I would just caution everybody to take a break during breaking news. Unless you're directly reporting the story, you don't have to be there every single minute and let these things settle down. But Jason, back to you.

• 51:39Jason Calacanis?

  Well, I was gonna say, you know, there is a passion for crime stories. There always have been. They, they, they are very popular in entertainment and we have documentaries now. And there is one thing that is helpful.

• 51:54Jason Calacanis?

  Which is asking the public for help in identifying people. And so

• 52:01Speaker 02

  That's how we caught this guy. His father turned him in because he confessed to his dad and to a friend on Discord and then they turned him in. So that's the only reason we caught the guy.

• 52:09Jason Calacanis?

  So yeah, there it is. And I think sometimes there have been these cold cases, podcasts and documentaries that raise awareness. Again, the human mind tries to solve problems and resolve conflict, cognitive dissonance of how these things happen. And all that energy, although it will be wrong in the majority of cases, it will be spastic, it could be offensive. And could certainly rub people the wrong way. I'm sure victims' families don't always feel so great about people becoming obsessed with it. They do sometimes lead to, maybe not the detectives and the investigators going, oh, I never thought of that possibility.

• 52:54Jason Calacanis?

  But it could lead to a piece of evidence or a person coming forward who previously had not. And it could, you know, potentially, and so I'm just, you know, I think there is something to crowdsourcing.

• 53:12Jason Calacanis?

  Aspects of these. I do think we will see folks when they leave social media footprints, especially if they're on private accounts or in deep into forums that are not easily queried because they're behind paywalls or logins. There does seem to be an opportunity there as well. Is this person in a Facebook group and a subreddit with a handle? And can I identify their way of talking? Or maybe they use something in their handle, you know, a character, a series of words or keywords that could then help you find people. But you gotta be careful as well because I'm trying to remember the case recently where Everybody went after the wrong person.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  But it was the Boston Marathon bombing is the one they the Reddit thought they'd identified the guy and there was like 12, 16, 18 hours between them all looking for this wrong person and the Sarnav brothers who were the actual parties responsible being arrested.

• 54:13Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, thank you for remembering.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  If you have, if you have a tip that you come up with, if you have a brilliant insight, if you have something that you see, you can turn it into the relevant legal authorities. I, I think that.

• 54:22Jason Calacanis?

  The tip lines, yeah.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  The tip line, sure. I think my, my more negative take Jason was more predicated on, I don't think a lot of the people sharing stuff in the last couple of days have been trying to help solve the case before we caught the shooter. I think they were more trying to drive more attention to themselves. I believe this is called chasing clicks.

• 54:39Jason Calacanis?

  And.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, cloud chasing, click chasing. Yeah, that's unfortunate. Gross form of news, Jackie. Yeah, I think that's why I'm just.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  I just also worry that we're not informing people about what these AI tools really do. And there's a lot of people that believe it's just like this genius that lives in your phone that can answer any question and don't have a good applied sense of like what it's actually doing and how it actually works. And like, I think this is just the latest issue that highlights that.

• 55:04Jason Calacanis?

  That's going to, yeah, you certainly saw that with the psychosis stuff where people thought like, oh, and the, and the South Park obviously lauded that and featured that in one of the recent episodes where it's like, oh my God, you know, I want to turn french fries into salad. That's my startup idea.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  That's a great idea, Randy.

• 55:19Jason Calacanis?

  That's a great idea. It's like, it's not actually a great idea. It's psychophantic. And, but you know, that is part of the process of any new technology is people kind of learning how it does what it does. The great irony of this technology is that as it gets better, people's perception of its genius will actually become closer to the reality of it. These things do have a level of rigor that will emerge over time where if prompted correctly, if you said, you know, instead of just give me a better picture of this person, make it clearer. If you said, based upon, you know, the average look of somebody this height,

• 56:04Jason Calacanis?

  this weight, et cetera, give me some permutations and the probabilities that the person looks like this, that could be interesting, you know? And, and, and I'm sure, like I said earlier, the FBI has had those tools for a little while. Maybe a balance jury makes them. Who knows? All right. Uh, let's keep going. What else do we got on the docket?

• 56:20Speaker 01

  All right. So let's talk about social media bans. Jason, you called for a story on this. There's a new bill in the House from Representative Angie Craig, Minnesota. It's called the No Social Media at School Act, kind of says what it does on the 10. The nuance to this particular bit of legislation is that she wants social media companies to geo-fence around schools to effectively block students from being able to access social media services during those times of the day. She wants people to learn and not scroll. To me, this seems like a very complicated way of saying, no phones at school. But I'm curious what you thought.

• 56:53Jason Calacanis?

  I think it's brilliant. Okay. If you can geo-fence me to create a anonymous bullying app, like some of these anonymous apps became, not that the creators intended them to be bullying, but they did say, hey,

• 57:09Speaker 01

  secret yuck yak.

• 57:10Jason Calacanis?

  All of that cohort was, you know, a mobile social geo, mobile social geo application. And you put those things together, it's in your pocket. It knows where you are and it identifies conversations or limits them by location. And obviously we do that, you know, whenever you're in Dubai or Austin or New York, you're going to get ads that are geo-targeted.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 57:36Jason Calacanis?

  Very easy to do. And so if a school opts into it, the administration should be able to say, no, no targeting of students and let's turn off Instagram, Facebook in this one mile, you know, on the campus. If the school board there decided to do that, I think actually it's productive. And phone lockers, if you pull up Producer Oliver or Claude, or maybe both, the phone locker is available on Amazon. I have been lobbying about this. And this is a very,

• 58:14Speaker 01

  example of this.

• 58:15Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, it's a very simple hundred dollar, $200, depending on how many phones you can do. And they're made of plexiglass or metal. You slide your phone in. In some cases, that one, I think, you know, somebody has to administer it. And other ones, they're little lockers that each have an individual key and you can see into your phone. And then you wrap the, Key around your wrist so you don't lose it. And then if you need your phone, you can go to the front desk or to the vestibule, the lobby of the school. Just like when I was a kid, we had the rock at Severin High School, which is a big giant rock in the back and where you could go smoke. Think about how crazy that was. We were allowed to smoke in high school. You could go to the rock and smoke and there were teachers smoking there with the students, hanging out and bumming cigarettes off each other.

• 59:00Jason Calacanis?

  It was a different time, folks, it was the 80s.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  That was still the 90s. I went to high school in the early 90s and you could go smoke at the back by the flagpole.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  You could not smoke in the 2000s.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  It was totally acceptable.

• 59:10Jason Calacanis?

  So, you know, if you think about what's worse for kids today, smoking or social media? I'm gonna go, I'm gonna give social media the edge.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  Tough call, yeah.

• 59:20Jason Calacanis?

  I literally would.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Did you guys watch, not to take us down too far a rabbit hole here, did either of you watch Unknown Number, the high school catfish documentary that's on Netflix?

• 59:30Jason Calacanis?

  I've been hearing about this one. I have not.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  All you'd have to do is watch that and you will be like, yes, we should absolutely shut down social media. Like, those kids would have been saved from this whole ordeal if they weren't, if they weren't allowed to use their phones during the school day.

• 59:44Jason Calacanis?

  It's such a distraction, you know, I was at dinner the, just the other night, as I mentioned earlier on the top of the show with Vlad and some friends and Jared Leto was there and we're all talking and, you know, I just had, we, you know, I was talking to Jared about movies and, and, and attention spans, et cetera, and having that obvious debate that we've had here before. And I said, you know, I think it's coming back because look at all of us, we have our phones on the table faced down. Every single person had their phone faced down. I said, we all took the time to put it faced down for a reason. We're signaling to each other unconsciously that you have my attention and that we enjoy this time together, having the spicy rigatoni and the veal parm. Although Carbone found me, they, they'll usually make me a chicken parm off menu.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:26Jason Calacanis?

  Which I prefer to the veal parm, but they, um, they were very busy. They were very busy and so.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Chicken parm is superior to veal parm. Just to throw in my.

• 1:00:37Jason Calacanis?

  Listen, guys, guys, I gotta stop us here, we're gonna go down a rabbit hole. We gotta stay, got a lot of docket, guys, this could take us 10 minutes over the lectures. But I think the onus should be on the social media companies to support the educators in this regard. This is where somebody like Zuckerberg. Who I think has made the wrong decision every time it comes to our children could actually show some leadership. Why doesn't Zuckerberg come out and say, this is something we could technically implement? Oh, because it doesn't make him money.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:01:10Jason Calacanis?

  Doesn't make the stock go up. And he could put five engineers on this and, you know, five product managers, 10 of their 100,000 people, whatever it is, a de minimis cost to him, and he could make a big impact. So somebody clip this, send it to Zuckerberg and his lieutenants, and let them know that I expect them to take action here, and I want to see them for the first time in their lives as a company to take proactive action to protect our children. Yes, Zuckerberg, three people sent this to you. You can all guess his email, just put it on social media, on threads, put it on Instagram and at mention him, and just say, J Cal says this is a time when you could actually do something thoughtful

• 1:01:51Jason Calacanis?

  and proactively, as opposed to getting pulled in front of Congress constantly and having whistleblowers determine your action, which is the lowest form of leadership. If you want to be a leader, Zuckerberg, and I'm not going to make this personal and get into another Palmer Lucky situation, I'm talking about an organization that has a track record of not being proactive in safety concerns with our children. And he has children, I have children, you have children, Alex, Lon, we don't know, you can find out.

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  Probably not, I don't think.

• 1:02:24Jason Calacanis?

  23andMe, we'll find out if anybody emerges. But the truth is, I really think, you know, at this point in Zuckerberg's career, being fabulously wealthy, powerful, having every dream he could imagine.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  Just having come off this major controversy about his own internal AI team allowing the bots to flirt with children. Like, what a perfect way to respond to that.

• 1:02:48Jason Calacanis?

  Get ahead of the curve, Zuck.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  Right. Now, now we're going to go proactively defend the children. Like, wouldn't that be a great way to rebound?

• 1:02:55Jason Calacanis?

  A message to Zuckerberg. Proactive once? Once? Can you do it?

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  Just, just try it?

• 1:03:02Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, for, for giggles?

• 1:03:06Jason Calacanis?

  All right. Next story. Let's keep moving here.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Speaking of Meta, just add an echo to that. The FTC announced this week it's looking into AI chatbots interactions with kids from Alphabet, which makes Gemini, Character AI, Instagram, Meta, OpenAI, Snap and XAI, notably not Anthropic, maybe because they're just not as popular on the consumer front, but the FTC wants to better understand how these companies, quote monetize user engagement, process user inputs, develop and approve characters. And then Jason, I think this one's very important. Measure, test and monitor for negative impacts before and after deployment, mitigate negative impacts particularly to children. This is essentially in response, I think, to the Meta chatbot fiasco, but a lot of other companies are being dragged into this.

• 1:03:48Jason Calacanis?

  There was a character AI suicide or a suicide. Let me just be crisp in my, I don't want to be framing these things non eloquently. So I'll just give myself a second chance at it. A suicide that occurred based on somebody who was using character AI and was overly enthusiastic about that usage was clearly was not a healthy use of it. In no way am I saying that character AI killed that child, but I do think as these tools go into the real world, there needs to be a discussion. It would be great if it was proactive that when a child gets on these systems, you age verify. I don't see why age verification is so

• 1:04:31Jason Calacanis?

  difficult for people to understand. If you are going to engage in adult discussions with these powerful technologies, just do an age verification. We need to have a global age verification system that is run in an opt-in way by the two major platforms, Android and Apple. They should. Apple already has a designation between children and parents and family. You already have my credit card. You know, I'm an adult, et cetera, et cetera. They should set that on the device level and they shouldn't be forced to do it. They should do it as a group. They should say, hey, we have an idea of the person's age. And if they want to upgrade to an adult account, they should put in a credit card,

• 1:05:13Jason Calacanis?

  take a picture on the phone level and say, I'm an adult here. And of course, privacy concerns, yada, yada. But this would be something that platforms could opt into and say, here's a free version of ChatGPT. You don't have to log in. It's got these guardrails. And then they could say, and this is our one that doesn't have the same guardrails. And you do have to log in and, you know, we would like to know your approximate age range based on your iPhone stuff. Now, you do get into registration and privacy issues with all of this. So again, it doesn't have to be for everything you use. There'll be anonymous platforms, Reddit, or pseudo anonymous like Reddit,

• 1:05:54Jason Calacanis?

  or fully anonymous ones. If you want to go use the dark web and the Tor network, you'll be able to find those things as well. But why not have this as an option for companies to say, my technology is so powerful. Yeah, you need to have some registration. I've run into this all the time. I ordered kombucha the other day, and I needed to show my driver's license. And I'm like,

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's got a little kick to it, that kombucha, you know, it's fermented.

• 1:06:17Jason Calacanis?

  0.1% alcohol. I mean, some kid gonna drink two gallons of it and get a buzz? I mean, really? Okay.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  Can you imagine what drinking two gallons of kombucha would do to your body?

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  By the way, shout out to producer Claude. He has an answer for why no anthropic on that list. The FTC is specifically targeting companies offering, and I quote, AI companion products or services defined as chatbots designed to mimic human characteristics, emotions, and intentions, designed to communicate like a friend or confidant. Claude is an AI assistant for productivity and research. That's why they're not included.

• 1:06:53Jason Calacanis?

  Which would be, Alex, such a simple thing to do is to separate out these products into their own app. So as everybody experiments with personalities, if the personality is designed to build relationships and be a companion, just make it a separate app. We had the CEO of Eli Lilly.

• 1:07:15Jason Calacanis?

  Dave Ricks was at the event, really nice guy, and I gave him a big hug.

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  He was very nice. I chatted with him briefly.

• 1:07:22Jason Calacanis?

  He was very nice. And we talked about our shared passion for skiing, and I thanked him for my 40-pound weight loss that GLP's have done. And I've given it a lot of thought. I didn't talk about that weight loss during the first two years, because when I started using GLP1s, they were an off-label use. Ozempic, if you remember four years ago when I started, thank you to my friends, Tim Ferriss and Kevin Rose, who had a discussion about it on their random podcast, and they call it Random Show. You know, and they're biohackers, obviously, and they had been using it off-label for visceral fat around Kevin's heart and lungs or kidneys, whatever that is. I can't remember exactly how I framed it.

• 1:08:04Jason Calacanis?

  And so I went to a doctor, and I convinced them to let me try it off-label for this weight loss, which I struggled with after gaining two pounds a year for maybe 20 years. Used to be a marathon runner, weighed 165 pounds, now weigh 172, 173, lost 40 pounds. I'm literally almost at my marathon running weight, which I don't actually want to hit, because I've gained muscle since then, doing weights. So I might be within five pounds of what I would consider optimal, 166, 167, something in that range is probably where I want to get to. And I was speaking to the CEO of Ro. You guys know roe.com, yeah?

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:08:42Jason Calacanis?

  And roe.co, yeah. And so, let me find, is this in the docket for me? I don't have any details of it. Let me find it in the docket. It's the red.

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's under roe.co shout out.

• 1:09:02Jason Calacanis?

  Top, bottom, why can't I find it? Top. On the top, okay.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, right under the lawn stuff culture beat story.

• 1:09:10Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, there it is. Okay. So I was talking to the CEO of ro.co, R O dot C O. And he said, listen, we're going to do something. And I know you've talked about GLPs and you're passionate about it. And again, I didn't talk about it for the first two years. I lightly talked about it for the next two because I don't want, I know that there's a certain number of people who will try things because they trust me. And I wanted to wait for, you know, more data to come out about these things. And a lot of data has come out. And when people ask me and my family or friends, hey, should I try a GLP one? I say, you should talk to your doctor and it's had a profound impact on me.

• 1:09:54Jason Calacanis?

  In talking to the team at RO, they said, you look great. Would you consider being a spokesperson, you know, for GLP ones on our platform? I said, thank you. That's incredibly flattering, but I don't really do those things. And then I thought about it. I talked to my wife, talked to my kitchen council, kitchen cabinet. Is that what you call it?

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  Kitchen cabinet is what we were calling.

• 1:10:18Jason Calacanis?

  Talked to my kitchen cabinet and they said, well, do you think you could do well by being a spokesperson for ro.co? And I said, yeah, I think now's the time. And so they signed Charles Barkley, Serena Williams.

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, Serena is on the front page right now.

• 1:10:37Jason Calacanis?

  And I'm making the announcement today that I have signed on as a spokesperson for GLP one specifically on ro.co. And I don't have a promo code or anything, but if you go to ro.co, you can start getting some information on it, do a consultation. And in talking to Dave Ricks at the summit, Dave Ricks, yeah, I got the name right?

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Yep, you got it right. Dave Ricks of Eli Lilly.

• 1:11:02Jason Calacanis?

  Of Eli Lilly, you know, they're finding out all this other great benefits to these GLP ones. These are obviously new drugs.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  And I mean, Zep Battin is their, their GLP one. That's the Eli Lilly brand.

• 1:11:14Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. And so if you're overweight or you're, you know, having, struggling with this stuff, I, it worked for me. Maybe it works for you. Again, you probably have friends in your family who have had a life-changing experience on these. Alex, you've always been schwelt. I don't let you wear, I don't let you wear your tank tops on this program, but once in a while you'll rip your shirt off at the end of the program. We go into a production meeting and I see those cannons. You look great. You don't need it probably, but um, yeah, go to ro.co for real FDA approved weight loss options from a provider who you can trust.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  Can I just say how surreal it is that it's like Serena Williams and I love you, Jason, but like, you know, like famous athlete and then podcast.

• 1:12:00Speaker 02

  Famous podcaster.

• 1:12:02Jason Calacanis?

  And this podcast.

• 1:12:04Jason Calacanis?

  Well, I think this could be, this could be the start of something really great. If Tom Ford's listening and

• 1:12:12Jason Calacanis?

  and the Chevy corporation and makers of Corvettes.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  And if the Maybach had a driver testing.

• 1:12:18Jason Calacanis?

  I like Corvettes and if there's a ski company that wants to gear me up, I mean, anything's possible, but.

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  I think being in the top 10 on Apple podcasts, it's just like being the winningest tennis player of all time. It's the right there in terms of achievement.

• 1:12:33Jason Calacanis?

  Terms of achievement. Champions, both champions in our, in our respective fields.

• 1:12:37Speaker 02

  Winners, yeah, winners.

• 1:12:38Jason Calacanis?

  Winners. Um, of course she's known globally and I'm known, yeah, I guess I haven't known globally.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  Globally, I listen.

• 1:12:45Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, I don't know, maybe there's no difference.

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  When, when people.

• 1:12:49Jason Calacanis?

  To me, it's surreal.

• 1:12:50Speaker 02

  When people at the Universal Studios All In After Party, when Amanda would be like, this is Lon, he works on All In sometimes, people's eyes lit up like, like you said, I worked on Jaws sometimes. It's like, it's a big deal. It's a big deal.

• 1:13:06Jason Calacanis?

  All right. Well, there you have it, folks. So I'm really happy about that. Okay. We're an hour and 10, we're an hour in. Do you have one or two more important stories that we should cover?

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Pausing, pausing really quick. We have to do a poly market.

• 1:13:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you want to do the poly market?

• 1:13:22Jason Calacanis?

  Yes, I love poly market.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  I have a poly market for us.

• 1:13:26Jason Calacanis?

  Let's do a poly market.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  I'm going to, I'm going to do Zoox's, the news story as a short intro, and then I'm going to pivot back to the poly market. So just.

• 1:13:32Jason Calacanis?

  Three, two. All right. Tell me about the Zoox's progress. I was just in Vegas. I was going to go try it, but I was there for a short period of time and I wanted to play PLO and donate my money to the grinders there.

• 1:13:44Jason Calacanis?

  But I played five.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  We played Pill the same way. The big story from Zooks, which is Amazon's self-driving company is that they have launched in Las Vegas. The service is currently free, I think because they're not allowed to charge people for it yet, Jason.

• 1:13:58Jason Calacanis?

  Okay.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  But Zooks, keep in mind, is not a Tesla. It's not a Jaguar that has been converted to self-driving. They have a purpose-built self-driving robot taxi. So you sit facing one another. It's super cool. To me, it's a it's a little bit of the vision of the future in which we call a car, we sit in it, but we don't have to deal with the usual setup. And I I'm just really excited about this.

• 1:14:18Jason Calacanis?

  There's no front and there's no back. That's the thing I find very interesting about it, Lon. So if it pulls up into a dead-end street and or it's going into the Hollywood Hills eventually to drop you off, it doesn't need to ever do a U-turn. It can drive equally well the other direction. This is going to be a huge benefit. It also has large sliding doors on both sides. So getting in and out of these is distinctly different than a car, as you point out, Alex, because you have to swing the door open and have it get clipped in traffic. Here, the doors slide open. There's no, you know, like a minivan, or more accurately, a bus. So this thing has some very unique advantages.

• 1:15:01Jason Calacanis?

  You can imagine if you went into the parking lot at Terry Black's, which is the final boss. Of Austin self-driving, because you've got 16 people parking, circling, blocking each other. Nobody gets frisky in that parking lot because everybody in Austin has guns. So, yeah, but it is the final boss. Here it is.

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  This reminds me of, you remember Minority Report, which I think was one of the first big sci-fi movies that had the driverless cars was just like they're all driving in these automated vehicles. And I think one thing that was interesting is those cars had no windows. The you're you're inside and it's all LED screens projecting things. And so that felt like, oh, the future, like if you have driverless cars, they don't need windows, so a driver can see out. And that's what this reminds me of. We get to really rethink vehicles from the ground up now that we know there's not going to be anybody piloting them anymore.

• 1:15:56Jason Calacanis?

  The most important thing.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  There's gonna be so many of these interesting kinds of changes.

• 1:15:59Jason Calacanis?

  If you could pull up the safety test, producer Claude, there are safety test videos of this. So then to go to an even deeper sci-fi pull. Um, I believe it was Judge Dredd where one of these cars gets into an accident and it does a bunch of foam, Lon.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  Yes, I think hmm, that I think that is Judge Dredd.

• 1:16:20Jason Calacanis?

  Is it Judge Dredd?

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:22Jason Calacanis?

  The original Mr. Rest of the phone?

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  That sounds right.

• 1:16:23Jason Calacanis?

  It goes flying in the air.

• 1:16:25Speaker 02

  You are right. It's Secure Foam. Uh, no, it's not. It's not Judge Dredd. It's from the movie Demolition Man.

• 1:16:31Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, Demo Man, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

• 1:16:34Speaker 02

  1993's Demolition Man, featuring Secure Foam.

• 1:16:38Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. So, uh, you can show a picture of that, um, or just a still, or if you have the video and then show the video. Because this will be good for our clip game. Uh, shout out to Cleo.

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  The video that I found is real grainy, not good.

• 1:16:50Jason Calacanis?

  No, there is a great video though of the Zooks in testing. So the Zooks safety test video, let's just play that for a second here. Uh, so Alex, you find that one. Lon, you find the other one of the movie.

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  I found the demolition man one, but it is blurry. I think I can.

• 1:17:05Jason Calacanis?

  I think it's fine to show it. So you find a better one. Alex, you find the safety video from Zooks. It's on, um.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  I, I have a Zooks being hit with various things at high speeds by the company. Is that what you want?

• 1:17:16Jason Calacanis?

  Yes. Yeah, that's the, the safety tests and it shows the airbags going off. If you, if you scrub through it, you'll find it. And I've watched this video before because it's a unique giant box. You're in a giant box. You could have a lot of padding on either side. I believe the Zooks is for low speed cities. So I think these things are designed for 35 miles and below, maybe 45. Certainly they're doing it in testing. So these are these sleds they use. Um, you know, basically you'll have a sled go at 50 miles an hour and smash into the Zooks. Now, because the tires are used, these giant tires are the height, Alex, of

• 1:17:58Jason Calacanis?

  a car fender. So if a car goes and hits one of these, they hit these giant tires. And as you can see, yes, they compromise the tires and then inside they have so many airbags. It's absurd. I think you could roll this thing down Mount Everest and people would walk away from it.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  Which is amazing because we can be safer in these cars because they're designed differently than we are in our current cars. There's no steering column facing your chest.

• 1:18:27Jason Calacanis?

  No engine.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  Right by you. Yes, absolutely.

• 1:18:30Jason Calacanis?

  No engine.

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  This makes me very excited, Jason.

• 1:18:32Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  I love, I love that we're doing this in Vegas. For folks who want to try it out somewhere else, they're going to do San Francisco Access, I believe, next. And then Austin and Miami are on the way. Which brings me to something that's also that's very important, which is Tesla and its robotaxi group are also moving out around the nation. Security drivers, as you like to talk about, Jason, are there? Safety drivers, I'm sorry. But that brings me to this week's Polymarket. There's a Polymarket all about whether or not Tesla is going to launch robotaxis in California this year. And as you can see, their betting has really picked up in the last couple of weeks, and people are becoming increasingly optimistic. So Jason, no inside information, no calling on your friends. What do you think from what you know is the chance?

• 1:19:15Jason Calacanis?

  Well, well, let's, you know, on Polymarket, they have a definition section. If you scroll down a bit, we need to understand the definition of robotaxi here. So maybe you could take a look there.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  Any taxi service available to the general public which operates without a human driver actively controlling the vehicle will count. Regardless of membership or other financial restrictions, services which are limited to Tesla employees or a limited test group without general access do not qualify.

• 1:19:43Jason Calacanis?

  Okay. So this is properly priced at 50/50, basically. The reason there's a spike is because people who use the self-driving from Tesla, and even if you look at something like the FSD tracker, are reporting high 90 percentage. I think it's 96 right now. For the consumer-grade software that I use every day and other people use every day, without and without a critical disengagement. So if it's 96, 97%, they're kind of in the end game, if you will, which is why people think 50/50. And the reason it's not 90 is because of regulators. Right now, my

• 1:20:25Jason Calacanis?

  understanding is with the safety driver, you're categorized as level two, because you have somebody who's actively monitoring the vehicle. And no shame in the safety driver game. Keep the safety driver in for a year or two is my best advice to all these folks. It'll happen when it happens in each city and it's happening if Zooks and Waymo can get it done. Elon will get it done. But what we don't want to see is an accident. And I, one of the things I am concerned about is there seems to be extraordinary pressure being put on these companies.

• 1:21:01Jason Calacanis?

  To, you know, get this technology out there by market participants. And I just, I will admonish these market participants who are pumping stocks. To secure their bags, that they're bad actors when they are pushing people to go fast. Because they want to see their stock price go up. I have exposure to all of these stocks. Amazon, Tesla, Uber. Google with Waymo. I have access to all of them and I'm going to start buying, I think, some of the foreign players to just increase my access to them because I believe in the category so much. I haven't made a J trade on things outside of those.

• 1:21:38Jason Calacanis?

  Xiaomi coming soon. Yeah, all of them. BYD. I mean, there's a ton. Pony, uh, Neuro is not public yet, but I could probably get access to private shares. And the reason I'm really admonishing these folks who use their affiliate codes to try to make money, or they're using the energy of the public to try to get more views on their YouTube channels or chasing cloud is because you're putting pressure. When it is not necessary. All of, you don't need to like have your stock go up 10% every week or month or quarter. If you believe in the category, place your bet and then go sit on your fucking hands like I do. Yeah.

• 1:22:20Jason Calacanis?

  Just sit on your goddamn hands and go live your life. Stop pumping stocks. And putting pressure on these companies to do things too quickly. Safety is number one. And I know this because when I was a private shareholder of Uber, third or fourth investor I hear, um, they So they say. So they say, not for me to say. They had a terrible accident where a safety driver was playing Candy Crush and trusted the software too much and Uber shut down. Their Phoenix test, then crews dragged somebody. They didn't make the initial hit, but they dragged somebody. And then because of corporate pressure, stock pressure, pressure humans feel, they tried to cover it up allegedly and they lost their license.

• 1:23:05Jason Calacanis?

  If one of these companies, God forbid, has a fatality or just any loss of life or even just hurting somebody, the whole thing is going to be put on ice for a year or two.

• 1:23:17Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:23:17Jason Calacanis?

  The public will not embrace it. The regulators will do CYA up and down the stack. Too much pressure on too many people. Everybody chill out.

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  And it's gonna, if people keep trying it, right now, people who try it are uniformly or almost uniformly delighted. That's all the feedback we always hear.

• 1:23:39Jason Calacanis?

  Absolutely.

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  You want to keep that going. Like, you need that as the foundation, that everybody who rides in a Waymo today or a Tesla, they're evangelizing it to five more people. I rode in a Waymo, totally safe. I never felt like I was in danger. It's great. You don't have to tip.

• 1:23:54Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  That's, that's the virtuous cycle that you want to keep going if you're an investor in one of these companies or all of these.

• 1:23:59Jason Calacanis?

  So ignore these, you know, stock promoting, you know, kind of relates to the meme stock stuff. The meme stock people are, you know, talking their bet, diminishing the other bets, you know, Waymo is never going to scale, Tesla is never going to work, Uber is going to be toast, all this stuff. And it's, it's silly. There's obviously this category, and I talked to Dara at the All In Summit about this. Thank you to him for coming. He's very busy. And he explained it deathly, which is, you know, this category is going to expand massively. There's going to be many winners and it's a global deployment of upwards of 100 million cars. There'll be 100 million cars over the next 10 years put on the road.

• 1:24:43Jason Calacanis?

  There, there's nobody capable of making 10 million cars a year except for.

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  And that makes so much.

• 1:24:47Jason Calacanis?

  Toyota and Volkswagen, I think, can get to 10 million cars a year. Eventually Tesla could. They do 2 million right now. 1.8 million was their record. So it's, I mean, it is conceivable one person could maybe, you know, do that, but they would also then have to incur.

• 1:25:05Jason Calacanis?

  Tens of billions of dollars in expense, because that's another issue is-

• 1:25:09Speaker 02

  The CapEx to create all of those cars.

• 1:25:11Jason Calacanis?

  It's crazy. So there's like a physical constraint, there's a regulatory constraint, there's a capital constraint, and there's a consumer trust constraint. Let's just take our time, folks, take a beat and place three or four bets and then go live your lives. Go, go touch grass and kiss your kids. That's what I do. You think when I'm skiing 33 days a year in Japan and all around the world, I'm sitting there sweating this? I'm not. It's gonna happen. It's gonna be a great opportunity for everybody.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  And if you think of Uber today, it's not like you only get one kind of car when you dial up Uber. Maybe you're gonna get a Suburban, maybe you're gonna get a Range Rover, maybe you're gonna get a Tesla. It's like, it's all different.

• 1:25:52Jason Calacanis?

  Maybe you want a two-seat car and save money on a RoboTAC, on a Cybercab.

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, sometimes you get a Waymo and that's part of the experience.

• 1:26:00Jason Calacanis?

  Sometimes you got a family, you need a Volkswagen ID Buzz, which is gonna be all over the place. That's, or you want to be in luxury and you want the Lucid SUV with seven seats and room for five bags.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  So I feel like that is not hard for me to conceive at all, a future where you dial up and you know you're gonna get an automated ride from Uber, but who knows? It could be one of 10 different varieties of cars.

• 1:26:22Jason Calacanis?

  Or you use the Waymo app or use the RoboTAC.

• 1:26:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:26:24Jason Calacanis?

  You'll have five choices. The real winner here is the safety of humans, recapturing all that time in the car. So people talk about movies going away. Hey, you know what? If you're in one of these gorgeous zooves and you're traveling, you know, and you have an hour commute from, let's say you live in the, or even an hour and a half commute, you live out in the country and you take a long ride into your office three days a week. Guess what? Maybe do, you know, my discussion with Jarrett Leto about attention spans, you would invest in a Kurosawa film and watch that on the way in and out and just give yourself over to lean back.

• 1:26:59Speaker 02

  A plane ride, you know, just like you watch a movie or a TV show when you're on the plane.

• 1:27:04Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, awesome. All right, everybody. It's been another amazing episode. Thanks to our partners, Polymarket, Claude, and Propic.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  RO.co.

• 1:27:12Jason Calacanis?

  And now to the family, RO.co. Get your GLP1 on after your consultation with a trusted provider if you are so inclined and you could be schwelt like your boy J. Cal, not talking to you, Lon. Not, not talking to you, Lon. You lost a little bit of weight. You look great. I don't know, maybe.

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  All on my own. I did not.

• 1:27:31Jason Calacanis?

  What are you, how far are you from your ideal?

• 1:27:34Speaker 02

  Uh, I could still probably lose another 25, 30 and be totally fine, but I was, I was up to, I was near 250 pounds and now I'm a little under.

• 1:27:43Jason Calacanis?

  You up, you up to for the row challenge? You, you're interested?

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  I might, we'll, we'll see. We'll talk about it.

• 1:27:48Jason Calacanis?

  I'll pick it up.

• 1:27:49Speaker 02

  I might, I might.

• 1:27:49Jason Calacanis?

  I'll pick up the, how about this?

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  I don't love the needles, but I'm, I'm, I'd be interested.

• 1:27:53Jason Calacanis?

  It's the tiniest little micro filament of a needle. You, when you do it, it's so tiny, the needle, and you just do it in your, your, your belly fat or your butt fat or whatever, or your fat on your arm.

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  And I got plenty of that.

• 1:28:05Jason Calacanis?

  I didn't know if the needle had worked or not, because it's that thin of a micro needle. So if you're scared of needles, something to do, I'll pick it up for you, Alon.

• 1:28:15Speaker 02

  All right. Hey, okay. We'll talk after this.

• 1:28:17Jason Calacanis?

  And I would be willing to do a weight incentive bet with you.

• 1:28:20Speaker 02

  Oh, man. All right.

• 1:28:22Jason Calacanis?

  Could get spicy.

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:23Jason Calacanis?

  Could get spicy here.

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  Biggest loser here on, uh, this week.

• 1:28:25Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, there you go. All right, everybody. Uh, we'll see you next time. Bye bye.