#690 - Josh Brolin

Josh Brolin is an actor and writer. His new movie “Whalefall” is in theaters October 16th. Josh joins Theo to talk about the legacy of his old crew “the Cito Rats”, how his mom’s unique spirit impacted his life, and the times he thought he might not make it as an actor. Josh Brolin: https://www.instagram.com/joshbrolin ------------------------------------------------- Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner @CelsiusOfficial https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ Moonpay: https://moonpay.onelink.me/O2ia/t34p5kxg Manscaped: Thanks to MANSCAPED® for sponsoring today’s episode! Get The Lawn Mower® Ultra Gen 6 for 15% OFF + Free Shipping with code THEO at http://Manscaped.com! Chime: Head to http://chime.com/theo and join the millions who are already banking fee free with America’s #1 Choice for Banking! Quince: Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to http://quince.com to get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns! ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: [email protected] Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Mail stuff to: ATTN: TPW PO BOX 40137 Nashville TN 37204 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend X: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Trevyn https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/ Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Producer: Andrew https://www.instagram.com/bleachmediaofficial/ Producer: Halston https://www.instagram.com/halstonrays/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  On October 16th, the king returns. Sylvester Stallone returns as my boss Dwight Manfredi in Tulsa King. The Paramount Plus hit series widely considered as one of the best gangster TV shows ever. This season Dwight faces his most dangerous adversary yet. A ruthless enemy determined to take him down piece by piece. With threats mounting against them Dwight and his crew prepare for the biggest fight of their lives. Now that his empire is on the line Dwight will do whatever it takes to protect everything he's built. Tulsa King, the new season streaming October 16th only on Paramount Plus.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  I want to say that my new special, I'm doing fine is out October 20th on Netflix. So thank you guys so much for your support and I really, I'm excited about it and I hope that you'll give it a shot. And I also want to let you know that we've got a full restock on your favorite merch over at theovonstore.com. Um, we loaded up on the be good to yourself scribble tease and a new rat con drop. So you can check that out. Again, it's theovonstore.com. Um, if there's something there that you choose to get and um, yeah. Just uh, amen, man. Thank you guys.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  He's a legendary actor known for movies like No Country For Old Men, Dune, Sicario. Um, the list goes on, Goonies. Uh, his new film Whale Fall is in theaters this week. Uh, wonderful time catching up with the Cito Rat himself, Mr. Josh Brolin.

• 2:03Speaker 00

  And I don't want to find out what's behind door number two with Mike Tyson. You know what I'm saying? You just, you take what he gives you.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  So.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Hey man, thanks for having me on your show.

• 2:12Speaker 00

  Dude, thank you for being here, man.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  Seriously, it's nice to see you.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  You too, bro. It's a pleasure, bro. It's um. Yeah, it's up and I don't know if I can, if I can say this and I can take this part out. It's a, it's nice to talk to another alcoholic.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Is that okay to say?

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think everybody knows it by now.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  I don't know if everybody knows it with you. They definitely know it with me. I don't really talk about AA, but I talk about sobriety a lot.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  And that, are you sure that's okay if I said that?

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Fuck yeah.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  Okay. Cause God dude, yes, sometimes it's like, hey, you see, if you see somebody else that's, you know, I don't know. It just feels like something's a little different.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, there is. And you're out there now, you know? It's funny. I was thinking, I'll tell you the story really quick. Celsius, I guess you're, is your company or not your company, but you're sponsored by them or whatever. Liquid Death.

• 2:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  So Liquid Death, I have like a little tiny stake in or whatever. And, and the whole reason why Liquid Death did so well. Cause if you look at the cans, they look like 40s.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Right? And people are drinking less and less, like whether they're getting sober or not is kind of beside the point, but they're drinking, kids are drinking less and less. So they go to these concerts and they'd have these cans and the kids started drinking these cans that are full of water. And it made them feel like they weren't ousted, that they weren't going to be judged because they weren't drinking. Cause they had a can in their hand that looked like they were having a beer.

• 3:31Speaker 00

  Oh yeah. You're still in the group. When that metal hits your lips.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Seriously, man. Right?

• 3:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's a little bit of.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  When you hear that.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, you almost like.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  And even as a sober guy, like I'm cool with that. I like that sound. I want that sound to continue with in my life. I just don't want the fucking drunk with it.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  Right. Oh dude, sometimes I would lay in bed and just open cans of that over and over again. Out of like seven cans.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  What? After you got sober?

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Just as remembrance, remembrance of things past.

• 4:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  What'd you do tonight?

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's nice to be sober, man. And it's nice to know a sober buddy. And there's something else. We saw each other outside and we didn't talk. But I think that was the first thing that popped in both of our minds.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Which is cool.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  It kind of like, it gives me a little bit of an exhale. Cause honestly dude, it just feels like so much less pressure for some reason.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 4:24Speaker 00

  You know?

• 4:25Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 4:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like that too, man. So thank you so much for being here, dude.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  It's a pleasure to see what I would look like if I were a little handsomer.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Or a little gnarlier, little more angry, a little more angry, but you're not. You just, you have like.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  You look very welcoming, man. You're a very welcoming face.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you, dude.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  You are, man.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  I appreciate you saying that, dude. Um, Cito Rats, that I'm, I'm reading your hat. That's your company?

• 4:53Speaker 01

  No, that's a group that I grew up with. If you want to get heavy for a second.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, let's get it. Dude, I got my rat on my sweater.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  You got, is that a rat? Oh wait, what is that?

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Cause uh, they call me the Rat King.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Wait, get the fuck out of here. Seriously? So you made that?

• 5:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is part of our.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  So I made this. I just took over the, the, what is it? The trademark for this.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  Oh, you did Cito Rats?

• 5:15Speaker 01

  So the guys that I grew up with called themselves the Cito Rats because they were in Montecito. And Montecito now is perceived like fucking Oprah Haven or something, which is fine.

• 5:26Speaker 00

  So fancy now it's fancier?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a nucleus of like a lot of money and especially actors or industry people. But the group that I grew up with, um, 36 out of 50 are dead. From shit that we were just talking about.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  Really?

• 5:42Speaker 01

  So, and then my buddy would always talk about, hey man, you remember that place that we were this? And I had a needle hanging out of my neck and do you remember on the corner of Romero Canyon and all this stuff? And I said, I'm so sick of hearing those stories that I'm going to spearhead this whole thing. So I've brought the whole thing back as a like survived and updated, like new and improved.

• 6:02Speaker 00

  And that's the, that's the idea of the brand and also of the humans.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:06Speaker 00

  Survived and updated.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Survived and updated.

• 6:09Speaker 00

  Amen, bro. Fuck.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. So if you look up Cito Rats, you can kind of get, because like, I don't know if you ever saw Bra Boys in Maruba. Like there was a group of surfers there, Bra Boys, and they, they did a documentary on it. You can watch that. There's Dahui in Hawaii. There was Wolfpack in Kalah. There were Cito Rats. Kind of like skaters. Skaters would have what? Who were the guys down south was, uh, you know, Tony Alva and all those guys? Z-Boys, Dogtown and Z-Boys. Then you had N-Men in like Sacramento and you had different, like that was the skater. We were the surfer version of that.

• 6:46Speaker 00

  The Cito Rats.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, because like Dogtown and Z-Boys, those guys, it wasn't like Jay Adams was severe. He was the only guy who was.

• 6:54Speaker 00

  Jay Adams, can you help me out Nick a little bit?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, there you go. Hit that picture. Yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 00

  Let's go.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  He was, he was a Dogtown guy, but he was the only one of that Dogtown group that was like that.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Whereas if you look at N-Men in Sacramento, I don't know if you want to bring up N-Men, but N-Men in Sacramento, everybody was like that.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  So the surf groups, they were all like that. Cito Rats were all like that.

• 7:22Speaker 00

  Got it. So he was a real one.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  He was a real one.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Amen, bro.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  He was a real one.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  R.I.P. Jay Adams, dude.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Hmm. Bring up Cito Rats and see what comes up.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  Um, the Montecito. Yeah, dude, the rats, bro. Well, it's funny you talk about rats that they were surfers because here's one of the reasons why I, I correlate with rats.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  Um, for one, rats can swim for up to, up to three days, right?

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  They can tread water for up to three days, dude.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Right on.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  So that is a survive, like that thing is a fucking.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  That's a badass motherfucker.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  Dude, that is a badass, dude. That's a badass. Imagine you go out on a fishing trip with your buddies, with your rich friends.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Everybody's drowned around you. You still got the rats sitting there like, I'm good, man. I'm good. I got another two days in me.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So that's pretty cool. And rats have whiskers that are extremely sensitive. That's how they pick up a lot of information. I'm super sensitive. So it's like, that's a correlation for me. And this is one of my favorites. Rats, they don't vomit. They won't vomit. So that's why they're able to live in the shit. That's why they're able to live in the muck. And have it just that the, like the worst, the, in the worst spaces.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Because they don't vomit?

• 8:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like, it doesn't get to them. Like it doesn't like.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Oh, I got it.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  It doesn't affect them. Like they're all factory senses and stuff. So they're able to stay in there. So there's something that's like, I don't know, like even in like the.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Just like a cockroach, like super resilient.

• 8:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  But a upscale cockroach.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  But upscale.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, like shorty thick.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Like a rat is an upscale cockroach.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  Oh, it's a fucking bro.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  That's wild with whiskers. The whiskers being sensitive and you called yourself super sensitive, like an empath. Is that what they call it?

• 9:02Speaker 00

  I don't know about it.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  I don't know what, I don't know what that is.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  I don't know what empath is.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Maybe either.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  A person who experiences the emotions, energy and physical feelings of other people as if they were their own.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 9:12Speaker 00

  I think sometimes I'm like that. I think honestly, I didn't develop and I never thought about this. Sometimes I didn't really develop my own sense of feelings when I was growing up. And so sometimes I think you almost take those, you take moments off of other people's lives and existences. And, and that's why sometimes they feel like a lot.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  Does that make sense at all?

• 9:31Speaker 01

  No, it does make sense. And I, and then this is not like a ploy to, you know, try to talk about, but I wrote a book a year and a half ago. And it had to do, uh, you know, like kind of anecdotal paintings of how I grew up. And my mom was a wildlife activist. So we had wolves in our house. We had mountain lions. We had.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  Wait, in your house?

• 9:51Speaker 01

  In and out of our house.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Like how much?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Like my, my brother had 60 stitches in his leg at six years old from a wolf.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  No.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  And my mom definitely prioritized those animals more than us. So the, the point is, is that emotions and all that weren't, it's not that they weren't allowed. It's just there was so much, there was such a high level of chaos that you just didn't, you know, what were you going to do? Like go in a corner and like cry or like talk to your parents about like how you were scared you were going to be eaten. Like it just wasn't, it's just, that wasn't part of the deal. So, yeah.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  Yes. Sometimes I think when you have to be so alert, like you're saying, there's chaos, you have to be so alert. It's hard for some of those other things. I feel like, I'm not having self pity. I'm just thinking, I think it's hard for some of that other world to develop inside of you. Cause you're just on a, you know?

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  You're just like, you're like somebody who's got to do night watch, day and night. It feels like, you know?

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Seriously. And don't you think, I mean, like to just bring it full circle, that that's why we drank? I mean, what were you like when you drank? Cause when I drank, it was like, it was the best. It was like God feeling. It was like, I don't have to think at all now.

• 10:59Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  I can do whatever I want. And I don't have that little voice in there going, oh, you're a piece of shit or you're, you can't do that. You're not good enough or you're not, like all that went away. Except, you know, my, my version of it was. It just, there was no limit. There was no ceiling. What were you like when you were drunk?

• 11:19Speaker 00

  When I drank, I was like somebody that was going to get cocaine.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  I love how you said that deadpan.

• 11:27Speaker 00

  Oh, to be honest with you.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Seriously?

• 11:29Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, I'm not even joking.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 11:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, when I drank, it was like, I just like, I think I just drank just because I like, I didn't love drinking that much.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Me neither.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  It was hard, really?

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Interesting, no.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  It was hard for me to even realize I was an alcoholic. Because I didn't, I never, my friends were shocked, like, you're an alcoholic, dude, like, like, you're a fucking weirdo, but you're, you're not an alcoholic.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  You're not an alcoholic, right? You're just a freak.

• 11:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, you got a lot of other shit that I would worry about before that. Uh, but no, I think it made me go, like, cause cocaine, I think it made me be able to feel immediately how, I could feel immediately some way. And I don't, there was something about that, like, I'm gonna control how I feel right now. And it wasn't even the best feeling, I think it was a scared feeling, but I think deep on the other sides of me, there was a lot of scared feelings, and for some reason, it was like two bookends.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  And finally, there was something like, I don't even know, but sometimes I theorize little things like.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  So is that with alcohol or cocaine?

• 12:28Speaker 00

  That was with cocaine, it was just like, I'd have, the only reason I wanted to drink was if it get, then I could have an excuse to go to.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  To go do coke.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  To get.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Well, you drank, and then suddenly it wasn't, like, wasn't even a choice, you had to go get coke.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  Right. Or it was like, yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  It was an immediate thing.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  Oh, I'd see a child riding by on a bike, and I'd be like, oh, I should get some coke. I could look at a counter, like, oh, Easter's in four months, I'll grab a bag.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  The coke, the coke brought me down.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Dude, cocaine helped me quit vaping.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  In what way?

• 12:55Speaker 00

  It just, I, I think sometimes.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  It took the place of everything else that any other vice you may have had.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  I think.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  It was all vices in one.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  Well, sometimes a cocaine hangover, it would be a couple of days, and I didn't wanna do anything else to damage myself during that time, so it would give me enough time away from nicotine, anyway.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 13:13Speaker 00

  Um.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  I won't bring it up again.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  No, it's okay, it's interesting to talk about, you know what is nice, it's fun to laugh about.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 13:20Speaker 00

  Because it takes the air out of whatever part of me that wants to behave that way.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 00

  It makes it fun, and it makes it like, I don't know, for a second, you have some community, and that's all I ever really wanted.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  I think it's more fun.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  It is more fun.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  I honestly think it's, I don't say that just to say it, because I think other people wanna hear it, I actually think it's more fun, and I had a fucking blast when I was using.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  Did you?

• 13:41Speaker 01

  And I have more fun now.

• 13:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, let's go!

• 13:44Speaker 01

  More fun, I do.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  Oh, dude, I believe you had so much fun, dude, if I fucking, dude, I was doing it, and I was pretty ugly looking, you know what I'm saying, like, you.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  What are you talking about, why do you keep saying that?

• 13:54Speaker 00

  I mean, I did it, and I looked like me, right, if I looked like you, I would have been definitely out partying, bro.

• 14:02Speaker 00

  Dude, I had to have a couple of drinks to think I looked like you.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  Um, but let's rewind it, man, let's, let's do it back in a little bit, dude, so what do you mean, your brother got attacked by a wolf?

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  And you guys were what, just like, was it like a regular night, or was it like, like, what do you mean?

• 14:21Speaker 01

  We lived in Paso Robles, we lived on a ranch.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  In Paso Robles?

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, north of here, and we lived in a two hundred, on a two hundred and thirty acre ranch.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  My mom was from Texas, my mom was from Corpus Christi, Texas, five foot three, super loud, like, the voice of a six foot eight man.

• 14:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  And, yeah, and she, uh, she was, just animals were her thing, like, from when she was a kid, so she became an animal activist, she started working with fishing game and all that, and then she would take animals away from people who had illegally taken them out of the wild, have them jailed, and she would nurse them back to health, and if they'd been defanged or declawed or something like that, she'd find the most habitable zoo, and then put them there, she didn't like those little cage zoos and all that, um, but we would, so the transitional time would be in our place, so we had, you know, a lion, we had a bear at one point, we had a chimpanzee for a long time.

• 15:19Speaker 00

  Oh, really, what was his name?

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Reggie.

• 15:21Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Reggie, Reggie, Reggie, there's a story of Reggie, where Reggie used to watch Arnold Schwarzenegger movies with my mom, and you know how Arnold would hold the gun here, right? And that was like, I think, uh, Sly used to do that, too?

• 15:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was a big thing at that time.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  A big thing, like, in the eight, was it the eighties?

• 15:41Speaker 00

  In the heavy guns.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, big bullets, and then there was a guy who came over, and Reggie was in his cage, he wasn't in the house, my mom went, left somewhere, Reggie was in his cage, a guy came over to fix the chicken coop, Reggie, like, finagled or MacGyvered his way out of the cage, came over, everybody where I'm from has a gun, right, in their truck, right, on the window, in a rack, so he grabbed the gun, fucking put one, because he had seen it, obviously, in a movie, put one in the chamber, and the guy.

• 16:13Speaker 00

  Reggie did?

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Reggie did.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Oh, damn.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  And the guy, and then suddenly, the guy fixing the chicken coop hears, and he goes, what the fuck is that, and he's laying down, and he looks past the chicken coop, and there's Reggie holding the gun at wayside, yeah.

• 16:28Speaker 00

  Damn, Reggie was a real one.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  He was a real one, he was, he was the masculine energy in there.

• 16:33Speaker 00

  Oh, and that's you and him in a Where's Waldo?

• 16:35Speaker 01

  That's Reggie, right there.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  That's you and him in a, dressing up for Halloween, right there, boy. And, and that's, that's really him?

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's him.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Where'd you find that picture, dude? That was just on the internet? That's crazy.

• 16:47Speaker 00

  Both you guys look nice, man.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Dude, that was me at my worst.

• 16:51Speaker 00

  Was it?

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I look at that, that was a, yeah, that was a wacky town, look at that, like, what is that that I have on my face? Do I shave the top from the nose, like, partway down?

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Something's up, bro.

• 17:06Speaker 00

  It's very, it's very like, I'm gonna be the best looking guy who's gonna cross the Atlantic in the.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  It looks like twenties, don't I look like, not in my twenties, like nineteen twenties?

• 17:18Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Like John Fonte.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  I'm seeing maybe one of the outsiders, I'm seeing.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Really?

• 17:24Speaker 00

  Uh, somewhat, but I'm also seeing very spice trader, like.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Spice trader's good.

• 17:29Speaker 00

  Aggressive brother of a successful spice trader.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Always an aggressive brother.

• 17:32Speaker 00

  And you finally show up with the frickin', uh, coriander that no one's ever heard of.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  That's good, I like that.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  And you've got the market coriandered.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  That's it, very good.

• 17:43Speaker 00

  It was okay.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Very good, not bad.

• 17:45Speaker 00

  You'd be a supportive, yeah, not bad, I'll agree with, did, did it feel, was your mom like, was it easier for her to care about animals, do you think, or something, or was she like, good at being?

• 17:53Speaker 01

  For sure, you're the first person that's ever asked that, for sure, with the human thing wasn't, didn't work for her, and she was a big drinker, so when she would drink, that was, that was her ability to kind of like, you know, my mom didn't just say, hi, how you doing, she grabbed you by the lapels and pulled you across the table and planted one on your mouth, that's how she'd say hello, and it was usually from like, it's, you know, a three hundred and eighty pound cowboy.

• 18:18Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  You know, there's a thing in my book where I say, oh, dude, beyond, beyond, and I miss her, and she's not around anymore, she, but she, uh, yeah, there's a thing in my book where she says, and I know this is not cool to say now, she saw this cowboy, and he had a comb in his back pocket, and she yells out, I was about eight years old, and she's, she yells out, hey, she had this voice, and she goes, why do you have that comb in your pocket? And he said, he turned around, he said, I'm sorry, ma'am, and she said, that comb, it looks f***ing, I'm like, why? Like, what's the fucking point?

• 18:52Speaker 00

  What's the end goal here?

• 18:55Speaker 01

  And then, fifteen minutes later, you have ten guys buying my mom drinks.

• 19:01Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Always pulled it off somehow, she knew a bunch of truckers, and if somebody flipped her off on the road, she'd call truckers on the CB, and they'd box them in, like, bro, that happened many times, with me in the car, like, I remember, like, hey, breaker one nine, this is, uh, Catwoman, I got another flipper, yes, okay, Jane, we got you, you know, and then the guys would come out of fucking nowhere, there was no eighteen wheelers anywhere, and then suddenly, mm, mm, box a guy in, one guy would leave, they'd push him off the side of the road, and then, thank you, guys, I appreciate it, love you, you know?

• 19:40Speaker 00

  Oh, my god, dude.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  She was great, she was great, she was, she was severe, but she was great.

• 19:46Speaker 00

  That's a cool word to use, that's interesting, severe is an interesting word to use.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  So when you grow up in that, not as a victim, cause you said that earlier, you know, not to victimize yourself, you go, that's what it was, and I accept it fully for what it was, I like it because it colored my life later in a way, once I've figured out a way to kind of regulate the whole thing.

• 20:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  But without figuring it out, then you're just spinning, then you're just fucking going, you're like, I don't know what's gonna happen from Tuesday to Wednesday to Thursday, but here we go.

• 20:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, dude, it feels, uh, well, that's part of the unmanageability, they say, it's fun, until it's not.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Until it's not, yeah, that's it, it's fun until it's not.

• 20:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, dude.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  And then you try to get that fun back, and then that's when it gets really fucking crazy.

• 20:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Then you're like, I know I can figure this out, I know it. I fucking know it.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can do this.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Start working out like Neil deGrasse Tyson, like, you know, geometry in your head, trigonometry, astrophysics.

• 20:48Speaker 00

  You're drawing shit on the walls.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Drawing shit on the walls. I know I can drink. I can fucking figure it out.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  You're carrying the one, you're, yeah, you're using a calculator with, at the bar like.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  One of those big ones that has all the symbols.

• 21:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, T-Mobile sidekick or something. Um, yeah, I went through a spell, uh, where I was having a tough time and then I was so thankful to get back on track, man.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 21:12Speaker 00

  It can get scary out there.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  It gets scary and then, you know, we said, again, we tried to drop this subject, but it's like, you look back and you go, like, I see guys that are going through it right now and then you'll see them like, you know, they get, uh, you know, a month or maybe a couple of weeks and they go back out and they try it and they lose their wives and they lose everything and they can't see their kids anymore because of two days out, three days out. Cause they had to go get five hookers. Like, what is it about alcohol that makes you wanna go get five hookers? I don't know, but whatever's going on in that person's mind, that's a hidden little gem in there that nobody knows about, gets unleashed. And, and you go, yeah, it's not gonna, that's gonna happen every time.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  No matter what. When you eat strawberries, you will break out. It's gonna happen. No, but if I just eat the right strawberry, nope.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, but if I just have strawberry shortcake.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. That's right.

• 22:12Speaker 00

  Were the Cito Rats guys, was it, was there partying then or was that just sort of a surfing club?

• 22:18Speaker 00

  Like, was it a, was it a?

• 22:19Speaker 01

  It wasn't a gang. It was definitely not a gang. It was a group of guys. That's what, I mean, didn't you have a group of guys growing up?

• 22:27Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's it. That's what it was. It was just a community, especially in the eighties when you had parents that, you know, were how did I put it in my book? They were more interested in the sound of their eyes than they were about necessarily parenting. You know, they all had their drinks and their cocaine and their this and their parties and all that kinda stuff. So we relied on each other and it was a great reliance. It was amazing, but it was the beginning of punk rock. So the guys that, my best friend growing up, Jason Sears, had a band called, uh, Rich Kids on LSD. RKL, and that became a big band.

• 23:01Speaker 00

  Rich Kids on LSD.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  On LSD and they've, and they've influenced, like, I talked to Eddie Vedder about it. He said, no fucking way. You know Jason Sears. We were hugely influenced by that. I mean, there's a ton of bands that were influenced and this is like the greatest band that never got the notoriety that any of these other bands got, but that, like, Jason was my best friend.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  So all those guys, whether it was punk rock and whether it was surfing or that was the beach and, you know, it was, it was, it was a group of guys that you could rely on that were a fucking great group of guys. I mean, great, dude. Talk about colorful. So you're going colorful from that, but then she's busy now. And we got color this, and if you look at Duhui or like Bra Boys, like I said, but then it starts to self-destruct. Then it starts to not work anymore. Super fun for a while. Then we started not going to school and then you get into, you know, the heroin that came in in the nineties and suddenly these guys just started dying left and right, you know?

• 24:05Speaker 00

  Some of your friends up there?

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Most of them. There's a couple of guys that, like, when I talk about this, they're like, you know, we're all not dead, dude. By the way, we all didn't die. Some of us are still okay. Chris Rest.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  Some of us are still treading water over there.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  The rats.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Exactly. The rat. That's it. I love that you said that. I love that you said.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  Well, they're fascinating, man. They're fascinating animals. I mean, they're, and they're, they're kind of, I don't know if reviled is the word, but they're like, I don't know, they're always kind of looked down upon or looked at like.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Rats are?

• 24:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, or looked at like this outsider thing. You know?

• 24:43Speaker 01

  I'm gonna look for this picture for a second.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  And they feel, yeah, a rat, it's like their skin, it's like, they crawl and their skin crawls, you know, it's like a, it's like.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, but why is it always like Cito Rats obviously has some connotation where it's like, this is the, this is the shit of the shit.

• 25:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, but a Cito Rat sounds punk though. It sounds dope.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Good.

• 25:05Speaker 00

  It sounds dope, yeah.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  It does sound good.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  I agree. It's great. And so now it's an actual, it's a brand.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Those guys are still, I mean, the guys are still around, like, everybody's older now. Everybody's in their late fifties and early sixties. And, and, but then you, it, it was purely out of reaction of being sick of hearing the stories, you know? It's like, you're like, okay, these guys are sober now. People have gotten sober. It's good. There's still Cito Rats. It's still scrappy. It's still punk. But it's just not as self-destructive as it was. But I went to a wedding recently. I officiated a wedding for a friend of mine. Whose dad was a Mesa Rat, which was up the hill. And old gang member, gnarly guy, like Santa Barbara was way gnarlier than anybody could have imagined, right? Back then. You know, you can't imagine it now.

• 25:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, you can't.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Ever. And, uh, so I was, and this girl came up to me and it was, it was like, I've seen, I've seen enough recovery now. Where I'm not used to it anymore. And this girl came up to me. She's like, hey, man, I knew Damon, dude. And I was like, oh, fuck, who's that? She was like, hey, man, like, do you remember? Like, we were fifteen, bro, and I think you touched my tits at some point, bro. And I was like, oh, fuck. This is why I don't wanna talk about it anymore. This chick was super gnarly and she kept talking about, one of my best friends was found on the bathroom. He did, he died. He had OD'd and died. And she was like, Damon, man, what the fuck? Can you believe it, man?

• 26:42Speaker 01

  And the smell of vodka, bro. The smell of whatever it was that she was having, but that's what I wanted to try and shift.

• 26:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, kinda refurbish it.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Refurbish it. Perfect word.

• 26:54Speaker 00

  Cause it also deserves a bit of refining because at a certain point, like something's like tough and rugged and has its period like that. But at a certain point, it's put in so much work to be that. That it almost deserves someone to come along, I don't wanna say like a jeweler of sorts, but an appreciator. Come along and say, you know what? This deserves to kinda be, uh, refurbished in just enough of a way where it can be revered.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  We like the foundation. We respect the foundation. It's like, we bought a house in Santa Barbara. It was Joe Walsh's old house.

• 27:24Speaker 00

  Joe Walsh from frickin', uh, I saw Mysteries?

• 27:26Speaker 01

  No, no, no, dude, what?

• 27:29Speaker 00

  Who am I thinking of?

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Joe Walsh from the Eagles. You're thinking of the guy that, who is he thinking of? Yeah, that's Joe, that Joe Walsh.

• 27:37Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, Joe.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Joe Walsh, one of the greatest guitarists of all time. And we didn't change the house it out.

• 27:43Speaker 00

  I'm thinking John.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  No, you're thinking of John Walsh. I remember him. What was the show that he had? America's Most Wanted. That was it. America's Most Wanted. I used to watch that show.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  Oh, it was a good show.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  That was a good show.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  You got, you bought Joe Walsh's old house?

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Old house and it was so ratty and fucked up and like didn't have a foundation and half of it and all that. But we didn't change anything. We just updated it. And it's like ranchy and cool and bitchin' looking. There's rocks all over the place. Same concept. Same concept because you just could see, like, I don't wanna be defined in one way. I don't wanna be like, I am a Cito Rat, you know, fuck you, you know, throw a rock at your head. It's what we do. You know, you're like, that's just dumb. You're sixty, bro. They were throwing rocks at people's head. So even like, I know you had Neil deGrasse Tyson on and I did

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Colbert's penultimate show and Colbert and I became super close.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  Is he a neat guy?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  He is the coolest, like, literally, I get emotional talking about it. He is the coolest, most caring motherfucker I know. Like, amazing. An amazing human being.

• 28:56Speaker 00

  I'd like to meet him.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  He's really cool, man. You should have him on the show now that he's got nothing to do.

• 29:01Speaker 00

  Oh, did he lose his job?

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Well, no, yeah, he got fired. That was it. They canceled the show. That's why I said penultimate show. The show before his last show.

• 29:08Speaker 00

  Oh, the penultimate.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Penultimate show.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 00

  Say, just say the show before the last one.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  I just saw that shaming look.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  Like, why you gotta do that to me on my own fucking show, dude? Bitch?

• 29:27Speaker 00

  Dude, we fucking, they knew when you said it, I didn't know. They knew when you said it.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  You should put it up on the thing. That's what you should have done is put it up on the thing.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  We do vocabulary at the end of the year. We do a big vocabulary.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  Do you really?

• 29:42Speaker 00

  We're gonna start this year. We're nine years late on it. Penultimate means second to last or immediately preceding the final one in a series or sequence.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Perfectly used.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  The penultimate.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Perfectly placed.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  Very well.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Penultimate.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  That's good stuff. On October sixteenth, The King returns. Sylvester Stallone returns as my boss Dwight Manfredi in Tulsa King, the Paramount Plus hit series widely considered as one of the best gangster TV shows ever. This season, Dwight faces his most dangerous adversary yet, a ruthless enemy determined to take him down piece by piece. With threats mounting against them, Dwight and his crew prepare for the biggest fight of their lives. Now that his empire is on the line, Dwight will do whatever it takes to protect everything he's built. Tulsa King, the new season, streaming October sixteenth, only on Paramount Plus.

• 30:45Speaker 00

  As you guys know, Moonpay is my go-to place to buy crypto. And now they just launched something new called Moonpay Agents. It's tech that lets AI actually handle your crypto for you. Think of it like a smart assistant that can buy, sell, trade, swap coins, set up recurring buys, and even convert crypto back into cash, all on your behalf. You just set up a wallet through Moonpay, verify your identity once, fund it with a bank transfer, Apple Pay, Venmo, or PayPal, and your agent can get to work. Your keys stay on your device, so you stay in control.

• 31:29Speaker 00

  Moonpay already powers crypto for millions of people in over 180 countries. Check out Moonpay Agents at moonpay.com/agents. Crypto is risky and can be volatile, so do your own research and trade responsibly. Today's episode is in partnership with Manscaped, the men's grooming brand trusted by over 14 million men worldwide. God, that's a lot of men. That's some fellas, huh? And big news, guys, Manscaped just dropped the all-new Lawn Mower Ultra Gen 6, and they somehow made the GOAT of body trimmers even better.

• 32:14Speaker 00

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• 32:54Speaker 00

  Head to manscaped.com and use code Theo to get 15% off plus free shipping at checkout. That's 15% off plus free shipping with code Theo at manscaped.com. Or if you need it today, it's available now at Best Buy. Dude, my mom, we keep a dictionary in the house. It was like the one thing, like, our fucking, it would be the most miserable existence ever.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:20Speaker 00

  But every now and then you had to go look up a word, right?

• 33:23Speaker 01

  That was your education. That was like, I'm doing my job as a parent.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  The fucking apartment was sinking. Someone had stolen our balcony again. Everything was just a fucking nightmare. Like, you wouldn't even go to sleep at night because you were too busy crying and fucking.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Oh, that's awful, dude.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  It was fucking, it was.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  It's horrible.

• 33:39Speaker 00

  It was, it was, right? It was. You were either wetting the bed or crying, but there was always some liquid that was leaving your body because it didn't want to be involved anymore.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  It wanted out. It wanted out of the prison.

• 33:51Speaker 00

  It's like, you have to stay. I don't, motherfucker. Yeah, people stole our balcony. Look, we talk about this a lot, but there it is. People would.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Holy shit.

• 34:00Speaker 00

  People would steal our balcony.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  No, no, but did somebody come in and actually steal, like, pull off your balcony?

• 34:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, they did. What do you freaking mean? That's what it means.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Well, I know, but I thought maybe you were putting a new one.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  No, no, oh, no, no.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  And then you made it look like somebody stole it. Somebody actually came in and stole your balcony?

• 34:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, many times, dude. And so it was just.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Many times?

• 34:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, because people would steal the wood and use it for stuff down the street. So you'd have to fucking then pull up, and somebody one time built a fucking baby crib out of it. And that's the worst. You're like, we want it back, and the fucking babysitting.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Babysitting. You can't steal it from the baby now. Did you actually see a baby crib made out of your wood, knowing it was your wood?

• 34:40Speaker 00

  100%.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  That's fucking crazy. That's the coolest shit I've ever heard.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Because it was good wood.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, obviously, because it was new wood, because you had to keep replacing it.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  But this part of the apartment was sinking all the time, and so we'd be at dinner and like, it was just a nightmare. And mom would like, it would be absolutely miserable. Mom would be like, I'm gonna go lay out in the yard. It was just like, everything was just a fucking nightmare.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Louisiana's tough, man. My assistant, who loves you, by the way, is absolutely in love with you, Erica. Shout out to Erica.

• 35:09Speaker 00

  Oh, I'm glad that it went Erica. I thought it was gonna stop at the sea.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  No, Eric. Eric loves you. My assistant, Eric, my assistant Bob loves you. No, Erica loves you, but she's from Louisiana.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  Oh, nice.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  And she's tough. She lives in Atlanta, but she's,

• 35:26Speaker 01

  uh, she's tough. And I fat, like, I went to jail in Louisiana. Louisiana's tough.

• 35:33Speaker 00

  And what were the charges?

• 35:35Speaker 01

  I don't know. Drunken, fighting, no. Oh, obstruct, no. It was, it was, what do you, when you get in the way of something that the cops are doing, what do they call it? Oh, yeah, there you go.

• 35:51Speaker 00

  Josh Brolin and Tiger Woods went to jail together.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  That's not Tiger Woods, bro. What's the matter with you?

• 35:58Speaker 00

  I don't know. I figured you hang out with fancy people sometimes.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  That's you.

• 36:04Speaker 00

  Even, even, scroll up, let me see. Josh Brolin, Jeffrey Wright, sorry, Shreveport arrested two actors and several crew members. And all with the latest movie in Hollywood South.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  W.

• 36:17Speaker 00

  The star of Oliver Stone's film W early this morning. At least they put the star of it.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Thank God, right? At least I'm worth something, other than just a mugshot.

• 36:27Speaker 00

  Did you get arrested? Was this a frequent thing?

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, fairly.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  Was it? Did you feel like you had to get, like, because if you go parties, it feel like you have to get it? Because I never had that kind of stuff, really.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  No, I know you didn't. Because you didn't have the face for it.

• 36:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  You had two nights of a face.

• 36:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh, wow.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  I just had a face you wanted to arrest.

• 36:46Speaker 00

  Oh, did it?

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. I think so. No, I don't feel like I did that. No. That was more my mom coming out. My mom would get arrested, too.

• 36:55Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but she'd usually get out of it.

• 36:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Like, there's a story about my mom where she got pulled over and the guy was like, not talking to her really, and she always sped. She always went 100 miles an hour. That was the number she loved, was 100. So she was 100 miles an hour and get pulled over, and this guy's giving her a ticket. She took the ticket, like, they used to have those, or he's a motorcycle cop, so they had the whatever, that leather thing with the ticket inside, and handed it to her. And she took it, and she threw it out in the middle of the freeway. And then he stopped traffic, went out, picked it up, came back, handed it to her again, and she liked that. She liked that kind of like silent, strong type. And they became really close friends. He was over at the house all the time.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  So where she would, where one would have gone to jail mucho, she got, she would have too, but she just was so charming, she got out of it.

• 37:50Speaker 00

  It makes me realize there's something, some women like that thing of like.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  That's what I mean.

• 37:56Speaker 00

  I never realized that till recently. Some girls like it when it's just like.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  They love it.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  Fuck you.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Fuck you. I think, I think that's coming around, too. I mean, I'm, this is gonna get me in trouble, but I think there's something that's like, things have been so sketch and scary and paralyzed that I'm starting to see that kind of come back.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  Oh, we're getting out of the wheelchair, brother. You feel me?

• 38:23Speaker 01

  We're getting out of the wheelchair, for sure.

• 38:25Speaker 00

  Stella got her legs back, dude. We got this shit, man.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 38:32Speaker 00

  You had, uh, you had fame at a young age. Like, how do you go from this Cito Rats kind of energy, right? How do you go? We don't want to talk about it anymore?

• 38:41Speaker 01

  No, I don't know.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  Because how do you go from that to becoming like a?

• 38:45Speaker 01

  No, I think it's fascinating, because when I look at pictures of like me and the Goonies, which never should have happened, because I had missed 36 out of 56 days of school. I got in a fight with my mom. She kicked me out of the house in Santa Barbara. I went to go live on the couch with my dad, and he was in an apartment with his girlfriend in LA. So it was like me going, I gotta get my shit together. What do I do? My dad's an actor. Maybe I'll try that. Maybe I'll do that in martial arts. You always gotta get into martial arts when you're getting your shit together. Everybody, every kid, you know what I mean?

• 39:17Speaker 00

  That's fist foot weight. That's what the movie's about, I think.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  That's it, that's it. And then, so, yeah, I tried to get my shit together, and I went on auditions. I went on so many auditions, dude, and I heard so many people say, basically, versions of you suck. Like, definitely don't do this. Don't pursue this. Like, the martial arts thing sounds pretty good for you.

• 39:38Speaker 00

  Were you good, were you, were you?

• 39:41Speaker 01

  What? What?

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Were you good at auditioning? Auditioning is hard.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  No, I just said, I was horrible at it, bro. I was horrible.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  I was so bad at my job, dude.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  You just said it. Not only was I horrible then, but I was always horrible at it. And there was a girl, and I've said this many times, but Merrill Poster, who was third in charge at Miramax.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Said when she, when that thing was still going on, she said the worst, she said it publicly, the worst auditioners we ever saw, we ever experienced in our kind of history at Miramax were Benicio del Toro and Josh Brolin.

• 40:18Speaker 00

  Let's go.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  So there's some positive in that somewhere.

• 40:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, there's some.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Well, you look at Benicio and you go, he's great.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, and there's some way that obviously that that doesn't define everything. Because yeah, I think like, that audition is so hard. Dude, one time I went in, this is a fricking most embarrassing story. I stayed up watching Shirley Temple movie, right?

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:43Speaker 00

  And I went in and auditioned and they're like, you have to sing something and I can't sing at all, right? I can sing, I mean, I can do Christmas carols and maybe a couple of mild stuff, maybe some early Bush, but um.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Guns N' Roses.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can do some Guns N' Roses, but that's imitational, but it's like, I can't really sing. So I sang a song of Shirley Temple's right in this fucking audition room and I think they're like.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Really?

• 41:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Like you chose it?

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  They were like, can you sing? And you go, actually, I prepared a Shirley Temple song.

• 41:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I didn't know what else to do, cause I, it was more like a, like a, um, a poem, it's almost like reading a poem or singing like Christmas. It was, it didn't feel like real singing or something, you know? And I, and I remember, at first I started and it was not going good and I was like, can you guys open the window? Cause I was just so fucking scared. So they tried to open this window and it didn't open. It was like one of those businesses where they just want you to.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  Another awkward moment.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, be in pain in there. They're over there looking at the fucking thing and they already know I have no chance at this thing, dude, right? And then I was like, and so then I did it again and I just like, God, I remember going home and be like, I just can't fucking live like this, man.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  It's horrible. There's no worse feeling. I know people audition even today and I'm like, I wouldn't worse, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

• 42:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  I just, I mean, and you think it's something like, so we'll go back, but like I, so after The Goonies, I didn't really, there was flirting with disaster in the middle. There was a movie that I did that I was really lucky to get and the only reason I got it is because David O. Russell demanded that I was the guy.

• 42:24Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  But Miramax said, no, he's a guy who should have hit and didn't. So I spent 22 years kind of in the ethers after The Goonies, right?

• 42:33Speaker 00

  Because Goonies, that book, that was one of the biggest, at the time, was it one of the biggest things that ever happened?

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  You mean to me or just period?

• 42:41Speaker 00

  I think just period.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Period, just period.

• 42:43Speaker 00

  Was it? It was. Yeah, because I remember like, when did Goonies come out? Was it 80s? Eighty-five. Right, I remember of course watching it when I was a kid, but sometimes when you're a young kid, you're not exactly the sure if something came out four years ago or it just came out. But um, yeah, it was one of the craziest, it was like, everybody impersonated everything and everything was related to it and like, you had like, yeah, it was Halloween costumes and everything.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:06Speaker 00

  Um, so that was one of, so it was one of the biggest things that happened. So at that time, were you drinking and partying at that time?

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, bro. That's what, that's the thing, no, no, no, I'm not saying that like a, but bring up that last picture that you just, that you just had. Like, I look at that and then I think I'm lying. Do you know how, like, if you look back at your stories and all that kind of stuff and you're talking about your mom and you're talking about how they stole your balcony and all that kind of stuff? And then you think, am I lying? Did I make a bunch of shit up? Because when I look at that dude, I go, you look pretty healthy and young and pretty innocent and naive.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  Oh, like are the stories in your head not real?

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Or not real? Because, because that guy, I don't see, what I know was the trajectory from eight to that.

• 43:54Speaker 00

  I see.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Is super gnarly. You know, I'm not gonna say it on here, but the shit that I was doing before that moment was, I should have been here already.

• 44:04Speaker 00

  Really?

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, for sure.

• 44:07Speaker 00

  You were partying pretty hard?

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Super hard. Like my, like some of those guys had already died at that point. So anyway, then you get this, then you go out and you'd be with your dad and then you go on the 350 auditions and people are saying, you know, it's not for you. And then you get a role and it's that role. And you show up and you've never done it and you don't know what you're doing.

• 44:28Speaker 00

  So that was one of your first roles, Goonies?

• 44:30Speaker 01

  The first role.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  No way, dude, I didn't, sorry, I didn't know this.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  The first time ever in front of a camera. I ruined the first day of shooting because I couldn't stop laughing.

• 44:40Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Couldn't stop ruining the whole fucking thing.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  Cause you were laughing, you said it all seemed ridiculous?

• 44:45Speaker 01

  No, it was just like nerves, like nerves coming out sideways and shit. Action, you know? Just fucking it all up. And I remember Spielberg coming up and saying, we need to, we need to get through this. You need to just take a breath and let's just get through this. And I'm like, oh, oh yeah, okay, good. But then, yeah, and then I did Thrashing after that, which was, became like one of the worst movies I ever did to me at that time.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  Thrashing?

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a skateboarding movie.

• 45:14Speaker 00

  Oh, well, that makes sense though.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  There you go. Like, look at that quintessential eighties movie.

• 45:21Speaker 00

  Oh my God.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  You look like Will Ferrell in that.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  I do, really?

• 45:26Speaker 00

  This is like Will Ferrell and a young David Spade, I feel like, in this, in this picture right here, dude.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  My assistant Bob loves you. I mean, that's the thing, it's like, it's a guy's story.

• 45:39Speaker 00

  That's great, you know, it actually, that, that picture looks like Val Kilmer really a little bit.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  It kind of does, doesn't it? What, me or her?

• 45:46Speaker 00

  You do.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, good.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  Different stages of Val.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Different stages of Val, that was Val later.

• 45:51Speaker 00

  Thrashing, it was just Val finding himself.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  So that kind of became like Tony Hawk was in that, were you ever a skater? No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Tony Hawk was in that and like Tony Alva and all these famous skaters, Christian Hisssoy and this became way later, like a cult film.

• 46:08Speaker 00

  Got it. Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you, but it became like a cult classic kind of.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  But I saw it and I was so bad in it, I was like, I, like my acting is actually like actively hurting people at this point. Like, go figure this out.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  But what do you, were you, did you think that it was because you'd had a better director the first time?

• 46:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 46:27Speaker 00

  Or could you even ever do it and you just didn't realize it maybe?

• 46:28Speaker 01

  But you're asking questions that I couldn't even, because I hadn't been around, it's not like I grew up in the business and I grew up in LA and all, so I didn't know. All I know is I, is I sounded stupid to me.

• 46:41Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  And then I had no voice control, which I realized later is like part of it and you kind of, you know, you're like, Chrissy!

• 46:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  I love you! And you're like, ew! You know, and that, and then I went to New York and I studied and I did all that stuff. And then it kind of changed it. I met this guy, Anthony Zerbi, I started doing a bunch of theater, I started doing, all that stuff's boring, but yeah, I took it seriously. So I had 22 years of taking it seriously because nobody was interested until really I did No Country.

• 47:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  And then No Country kind of changed shit. Kind of, yeah, definitely.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  Good for you, dude.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks, man.

• 47:24Speaker 00

  Sticking it out and still believing in yourself, I bet. Were there times where you were like, did you even, did you get another job? Ever like, was there a time where you're like, I can't, well, I guess you had to get a job at some point, something else, or were you, were you able to just financially take care of yourself?

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did, I was a landscaper for a year.

• 47:38Speaker 00

  Oh, fuck yeah.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  And then I was, when I was 30, I was, I traded full-time. I learned how to trade from a guy named Brett Markinson.

• 47:48Speaker 00

  Trading what?

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Stocks.

• 47:50Speaker 00

  Oh, stocks, yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Stocks.

• 47:52Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  And I was, I was really good at it.

• 47:54Speaker 00

  You were a stock trader?

• 47:55Speaker 01

  For almost five years, full-time.

• 47:58Speaker 00

  Were you on the floor with the tickets and stuff?

• 48:00Speaker 01

  No, bro.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  That would have been great.

• 48:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  You know, no, uh, I was at home with one, two, three screens and four tabs per screen.

• 48:09Speaker 00

  Oh, you were day trading?

• 48:10Speaker 01

  I was day trading. I was swing trading and day trading.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  What's the most that you ever made like in a, in a?

• 48:16Speaker 01

  The most, I made more money, I'd put it this way, I made more money in those four years, really, it was five years, but it, within four years than I had made in 20 years acting.

• 48:28Speaker 00

  Damn.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  But I didn't really make hardly anything acting, you know, there was, I didn't, cause I wasn't really working. I mean, think about it, dude, and it's not, and I don't mean to insult anybody out there, but if you think about like, and I think it's okay to say this, No Country, I made, how much do you think I made from No Country? I had been doing it already for 22 years, 20 whatever years.

• 48:48Speaker 00

  How much do I think they paid you to be in No Country?

• 48:50Speaker 01

  You know a little bit about somebody being paid or not being paid. How much do you think they paid?

• 48:54Speaker 00

  I think that they paid you upfront, I bet that they paid you $200,000.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  That's pretty good. That was a good guess, 100. 100, so I cleared what, 30?

• 49:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  It's not considered a great year.

• 49:09Speaker 00

  No.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 49:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  30.

• 49:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  And then I did American Gangster after that, cause I auditioned while I was doing No Country, I sent in a tape and my son, who was 16 at the time, played the Denzel part.

• 49:22Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  We sent in that tape.

• 49:24Speaker 00

  That's pretty cool.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  That's the last audition I ever did.

• 49:26Speaker 00

  And that was it?

• 49:27Speaker 01

  I think so. I think so, I think maybe there was one other.

• 49:31Speaker 00

  Offer only. I love that. You have to celebrate that stuff, it's cool.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Oh, fuck, that's cool.

• 49:36Speaker 00

  That's so cool, dude.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  Especially the fucking hurting people with my auditions. Um, but yeah, anyway, that's that.

• 49:43Speaker 00

  And so the day trading went good?

• 49:45Speaker 01

  The day, day trading, I loved, man.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  But you had to give it up to act and what's?

• 49:48Speaker 01

  But it was day, but that's the kind of like, to, to go back and like, say how you're defined in your way and like, oh, this is how I'm defined, or it's fighting, or it's drinking and all that kind of shit. And then you start, things start to get revealed that you're good at. You're like, wow, I could have developed this shit when I was young, given the opportunity or maybe given somebody to direct you, a mentor or a parent or something like that, like you're actually good at this shit. You're not a total dumb shit.

• 50:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean?

• 50:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, there was nothing.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  There was nothing to suggest that there was anything other than a hollow shell of alcohol.

• 50:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh dude, sometimes it's like, if I had somebody just to help lay down some banks.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  But instead, I spent my whole life just like, literally just trying to keep the water in with my fucking hands, it feels like.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  And it just feels impossible sometimes, but not all the time and over time it gets better.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:43Speaker 00

  Um, when did you start to get sober? When was that like journey for you?

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Quickly, I'll tell you, 19, I'd gotten busted for something and I had to get out of it, so.

• 50:52Speaker 00

  At 19?

• 50:53Speaker 01

  At 19, and I was doing a little, I did a little bit of, uh, I did jail time. But then I stayed sober for three and a half years, then I went back out very actively, like consciously, and then I.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  Like I'm gonna go out there.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, like I'm, I miss that.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  I'm gonna go do that again.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  Crazy heart kind of.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:11Speaker 00

  But young.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  Young. I was what, 23 when I went back out, 22, 23?

• 51:15Speaker 00

  What were y'all drinking out there then?

• 51:17Speaker 01

  I don't know what we're, look at you all into it. You're like, what would you all be drinking? Did it taste good? What were we drinking back then? I was drinking, what was it? I was drinking White Russians. Why was I drinking White Russians?

• 51:31Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  But it's for a reason. It's like, why?

• 51:34Speaker 00

  Are we trying to be fancy?

• 51:35Speaker 01

  No. It wasn't fancy. It was for, I don't know.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  Oh, that.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that maybe that was it. When did it come out? When did that movie come out? Maybe that was it. And then I end up working with him twice. So there you go.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  Ninety-eight. Ninety-eight.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't that.

• 51:53Speaker 00

  But it could have been.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  But it could have been.

• 51:55Speaker 00

  Dude, that's great.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Some unknown connection.

• 51:57Speaker 00

  We went to Santa Barbara and got to hang out with Jeff one day.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Where? No way.

• 52:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Oh, he's the best.

• 52:02Speaker 00

  It was only two months ago, dude. It was one of, bro, one of the coolest times of my life. He has a frickin' ChatGPT friend.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  That, no.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, dude.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  That he talks with?

• 52:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, Gary's like, Gary. What? And he's so.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Of course he does.

• 52:16Speaker 00

  Bro, he had me talking to Gary. I'm like, the dude is on.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  So what does he do? Ask him questions? He asks him like therapy questions?

• 52:23Speaker 00

  All kinds of stuff. He's like, tell him about our wife, Gary. And he just, he had me locked in, bro. It was just me, him, talking to his computer. Then he made his computer make up a song about us hanging out. It was crazy.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 52:36Speaker 00

  But it was so cool.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 52:38Speaker 00

  But yeah, Bridges was nice, dude. You know what he?

• 52:40Speaker 01

  He's great, dude.

• 52:41Speaker 00

  He sent me a nice picture that he drew for me.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  And he mailed it and he said, we can get some soup and I come back.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, soup, just randomly.

• 52:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  He could, cause he can say whatever he wants and it works. Even with that voice, even I was making fun of my voice as, you know, been thrashing, but he like somehow made that voice cool. Hey, man.

• 53:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  How's it going, man? Yeah. It's good to see you, man. Yeah. You're like, how did you make that cool? That's so not cool.

• 53:13Speaker 00

  I do.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  I love him, man. I worked with him twice.

• 53:16Speaker 00

  Oh, it's so cool.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  He's the fucking best.

• 53:18Speaker 00

  Bro, it was, that was one of the coolest days ever. Just getting, just to sit around with him, enjoy some moments, talk about some different stuff.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Talked about like relationships and how he.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  Buddhism.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, a little bit of Buddhism. He had his buddy who had written a book. Um, that was pretty cool. Then he talked about, he was in recovery too. He was, he'd been in some recovery rooms.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  So we talked about that a little bit. And we talked a lot about Crazy Heart, man.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, did you?

• 53:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Cause you love that movie.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  I love it.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  I do too.

• 53:42Speaker 00

  God.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Do you know the guy who, who made the movie? Who's the director? Oh, man, sober dude. Um, which is okay to say, I think. Scott. Scott, Scott Cooper. Jesus, man. Sorry, Scott.

• 53:54Speaker 00

  No, dude. Bro, that song in there, the weary kind?

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. Ah, it's just so good, everything about it. And who, wasn't Colin Farrell in it? Colin Farrell came up at the end and he sang a song at the end.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  No.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude. Was Colin Farrell in that movie? You're our ChatGPT.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Jeff Chat, what was his name? Gary? Gary to Jeff, yeah.

• 54:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, dude.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:21Speaker 00

  Gary, man.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  I got it.

• 54:22Speaker 00

  E Gary.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Paul Herman, Pee Wee Herman?

• 54:26Speaker 00

  Pee Wee Herman?

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Pee Wee Herman, Paul Herman. No. Paul Herman was in the Scorsese movies. Paul Herman. Paul Herman was the boyfriend of my first wife when I met her before we had our first two kids.

• 54:39Speaker 00

  Dear God.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Just keep going through the internet and I have some connection with every single thing that you bring up.

• 54:45Speaker 00

  Oh, dang, man.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude.

• 54:47Speaker 00

  Paul Herman.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  Paul Herman was great.

• 54:50Speaker 00

  Robert Duvall, he played the bartender in it. That helped him get sober.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 54:54Speaker 00

  Dude, that movie was so.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  It was so good, man.

• 54:57Speaker 00

  So good. And then he sees.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  And he was so good. But you know what? I remember seeing Jeff. I hope Jeff is okay with me saying this. I remember seeing Jeff on the circuit, on like the, the promotional circuit during that time that he did Crazy Heart. And he looked, I go, hey, how you doing? He goes, I miss being an underdog.

• 55:15Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Cause he was just going from one thing to the other, to the other. And it was like, fuck. That whole thing.

• 55:22Speaker 00

  You get out of, out of your own skis, I'm sure.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  I would imagine because you do something that people love or that you're lauded for. But I've never had to really deal with it.

• 55:32Speaker 00

  Really? It seems like it's kind of getting to that space. Does it feel like?

• 55:35Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 55:36Speaker 00

  You don't think?

• 55:36Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 55:38Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't understand my career at all.

• 55:41Speaker 00

  Did you ever feel like you knew though?

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Nah, no.

• 55:44Speaker 00

  Really?

• 55:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 55:46Speaker 00

  Because I could see Jeff like gets like so busy, you don't kind of don't even know. And then like whatever it was, it made you feel special. It feels like you've outs, not outsourced it, but you've, you've used it a lot.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  And even if you use your gifts a lot, I feel like, um, they, there's something about they, they lose their allure to you, I think.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know exactly what you mean.

• 56:09Speaker 00

  And so.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  I bet that also on top of that, like I saw at Santa Barbara Bowl, I saw Jeff. That's the last place I saw Jeff and we're talking. And we were at Dylan. And we both know Dylan separately.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  At Bob Dylan?

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  And, and, and, and Dylan, and we were both talking about, imagine what it's like being Dylan. Imagine the level of fame that you can't go anywhere without people going, that's a genius. Like that's Bob fucking Dylan who's defined eras in the world.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  While Jeff and I are having a talk and maybe somebody's coming up going, I love Lebowski, dude. Fuck, yeah.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  Or people go, no country. What was up with that dude's haircut? You know?

• 57:00Speaker 00

  And why is Jeff fans are Mexican? It seems like.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  I don't know. Because they're in Santa Barbara.

• 57:04Speaker 00

  Oh, that's a good point, bro. Bro, Crazy Heart, bro?

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Oh, I loved you in, in Milk, Elche.

• 57:11Speaker 00

  Bro, you fucking played Harvey Milk, didn't you?

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, you played, no, I didn't.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  Bro, you were Harvey Milk?

• 57:17Speaker 01

  I wasn't Harvey Milk, dude.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Sean Penn, wasn't it?

• 57:20Speaker 01

  It was Sean Penn.

• 57:21Speaker 00

  He's pretty incredible, huh?

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Dude, he's amazing. He's amazing. That movie. I saw that movie recently.

• 57:26Speaker 00

  Did you ever get to meet the guy that played My Red Foot or whatever? You know what I'm talking about?

• 57:30Speaker 01

  My left foot?

• 57:31Speaker 00

  My left foot.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  My red foot. I like.

• 57:33Speaker 00

  My red.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  That's the guy that got that rash.

• 57:35Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. It was the guy, it was either him or it was that.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  No, Daniel Day-Lewis?

• 57:40Speaker 00

  Yes, dude.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  God, I love talking to you, man. You know nothing about the movie industry.

• 57:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 57:47Speaker 00

  I don't know a ton about it, man.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. I'm not, I'm not blaming you. I'm saying it's amazing. It's amazing because you, like you're talking about life shit.

• 57:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  I'm talking about like, oh, you're here and we're going to talk about the movie industry all the time. It's like, when, when you had Neil deGrasse Tyson in here, how was that?

• 58:04Speaker 00

  It was cool because I think some people like have thoughts, like he has different views. Like, I think he thinks men can be pregnant and stuff like that or whatever. But I don't care. Some of that, sometimes I don't care about like things like that. Like I want to talk to him about space. And I want to hear his voice, you know?

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:20Speaker 00

  For me, it's like sitting and just listening to his voice for a couple of hours. And, and just seeing if I can like, I don't know, just have some nice thoughts with him or something.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:29Speaker 00

  Sometimes it's just about like spending time.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  So that was pretty cool. And he's like, did you know, you know? And he just fucking, he kind of seems like some like, um, I don't even know what he seems.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Bigger than life.

• 58:41Speaker 00

  He seems like Father Time's like thick son.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  Father Time's thick son?

• 58:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  That's exactly.

• 58:47Speaker 00

  It's like if Father Time had a thick son that went and did his own shit, like his space shit. And his, he's, his dad's like, bro, don't be doing all the space shit. And Neil's like, I'm doing the space shit.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Doing it.

• 58:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  I don't give a fuck what you say. I'm going out on my own.

• 58:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. And he also, dude, and he also like he went out, but with like a hat, like, um, he, he just has this like kind of timeless. I can't even explain it.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, no. That's what, that's what I got when I met him. He came up to me and he was like, hey, man, I'm a big fan. I just wanted to say hello. And I was like, oh, nice to meet you. It's great. And then I'm talking to him. I don't recognize him. And then I look down and he's got like one of those, like aloha shirts, but it's got planets all over it and like shooting stars. And I'm thinking, what a weird shirt to wear. And I was like, no fucking way. And then it hit me. You're Neil deGrasse Tyson. You're Father Time.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  But the thick cousin of Father Time. Fuck, yeah. It's so nice.

• 59:38Speaker 00

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• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  I love that shit and that's why I asked because things are being revealed now, forget about like sobriety shit. As an older person, things are being revealed now that I'm more excited about than I've ever been like, like quantum physics with him and then I started like reading his shit and then I started reading, you know, uh, uh, what's his name? Carlo Ravello, Raveli, you know, and that Carlo Raveli was, was, you know, wrote this book on, you know, the basics of, of quantum physics. And is that him? Yeah. Yeah, man. And these guys are fucking genius.

• 1:03:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  And it's so fun following this like labyrinth of all this new stuff and being turned on to all this shit. That I'm like, this is amazing. This is like, I feel like I'm, this should have happened when I was in school, but it didn't, but it's happening now and it's happening now. It's so cool.

• 1:03:20Speaker 00

  Do you feel like you've had two different lives, a life before sobriety and after? Like, is there something that, that did for you that made life even more interesting?

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  No, I feel like there's been like 28 of them.

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  So there wasn't one or two, or like one, and then this happened, then it all changed.

• 1:03:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  No, and maybe because I'd been sober a few times. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it has to do, I think part of it has to do with sobriety, but part of it has to do with people I met. Part of it has to do with setting. Like I just literally landed from Tucson, Arizona, and I went to Tucson, Arizona for three days and I saw a guy that I've known for 38 years, who I met on the set of some series that I was doing out in the middle of nowhere, 45 minutes from Tucson, that nobody ever saw, but I met this fireman out there and he's still one of my best friends.

• 1:04:04Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  So I just went out there and stayed in his little guest room and, and we, you know, and it's just cool shit. And Tucson is fucking weird.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  Dude, it's weird. I used to live there.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  I freaking lived at Col- near Colvin Pantano.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:04:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, dude, I used to freaking.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Wait, did you go to college there?

• 1:04:20Speaker 00

  I went to University of Arizona for one semester and I went to high school there for one semester too, dude. And they would always have like all the kids, like predominantly Mexican kids at my school and that means all Mexican kids.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was me too.

• 1:04:33Speaker 00

  And dude, it was me, bro. And I took fucking Spanish class, bro, and they were fucking, they were fucking over on the side, fucking doing like, I think some of them were like even painting the classroom and shit, like people were fucking worth, like they gotten jobs with the school for that hour or they were all hanging out and I was the only one talking with the teacher. It was like me and the teacher just learning Spanish and they all knew it, but it was a class that they had. And all, all the kids would fight in a, a car wash after like, you wanna box, they say? And they were fucking fighting in the car wash.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  That's why you know how to do the accent.

• 1:05:05Speaker 00

  And bro, the best was the guy, like the short guy, but when he would talk, he would have to get taller, like, so he would look fucking straight up, bro. He'd be like, dog.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  You ever see La Sleepy? La Sleepy, she dances. Bring up La Sleepy.

• 1:05:18Speaker 00

  I've never seen her.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:20Speaker 00

  Oh, La Dormirza.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  There's La Sleepy.

• 1:05:24Speaker 00

  Oh, bro.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  La Sleepy. She's cool as shit. She will dance on Instagram for you. Look at, oh yeah.

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  Fuck yeah.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  No, anyway, yeah, Tucson, yeah.

• 1:05:36Speaker 00

  Tucson's magical.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  My, my, my school, three, just to say it, Santa Barbara High, three and a half thousand people, 80% Mexican.

• 1:05:45Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. 80% Mexican. And it's, and it wasn't like a thing and it's not a thing, but it was definitely like when I showed up at school, it's like, what you looking at, white boy?

• 1:05:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  It was like, ah, man, it's all good.

• 1:05:56Speaker 00

  What's happening?

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Scrappy. What's happening, Wibo?

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what they would say.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  What's up, busy?

• 1:06:01Speaker 00

  What's up, Wibo? They would call me egg.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  And it would be the, the, it would be the blue pants and then the wife beater and then the shirt with the button up here and open all the rest and the vans, the slip-on vans.

• 1:06:14Speaker 00

  That was cool.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Hola.

• 1:06:16Speaker 00

  It was fun, bro. Yeah, I went to Santa Rita.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 1:06:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, Santa Rita High School. And they would have, the alarms would go off. They would have some sort of gang issues all the time. It's the alarms would go off. I mean, I have to lay down. I remember laying down at lunch and having to eat my cheeseburger just laying there.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  It wasn't about like earthquakes and shit, shootings.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  It was just like violencia, you know?

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Violence.

• 1:06:37Speaker 00

  But it was a fucking.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  You ever see two Mexican chicks fight?

• 1:06:41Speaker 00

  I don't know if I did, but.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  It's not, nothing I've ever seen in my life, including Tyson boxing matches. That is that violent, ever.

• 1:06:51Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Oh, bro.

• 1:06:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  Just went at it.

• 1:06:54Speaker 00

  Cause they get it done.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  Hair pulling, punching, nails.

• 1:06:57Speaker 00

  That's what we need.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  That's what we need. We need that back.

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, we need that back.

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  Do you know Dana pretty well?

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  I know Dana pretty well.

• 1:07:05Speaker 00

  I do know Dana.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know Dana through motorcycling. He loves Harleys and I love Harleys. Yeah, loves.

• 1:07:11Speaker 00

  Is that one of your hobbies?

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Like my thing is I have a group of guys and I go to these long pulls, 1200 mile pulls or whatever. And then Dana does it with newer bikes, but he has, you know, his group of guys and he goes out and we talk and.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's been real good to me about just, uh, yeah, just welcoming me into that group over there, just letting me be around their group.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:32Speaker 00

  And, um.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 1:07:34Speaker 00

  I do, I, I, that's been one of the gifts of my life is being associated with, I think, the people there and the, the, just getting to see the fighters inspired by a lot of those guys, you know, it's so fascinating.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  The fighting?

• 1:07:45Speaker 00

  I do.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:07:46Speaker 00

  At first I didn't.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too. When it first happened.

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  It's too much.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  I was like, this is not gonna work.

• 1:07:51Speaker 00

  It was crazy, dude. It was the same people that were like breeding dogs and shit would have like a.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Cockfighting?

• 1:07:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, they'd have a VHS tape, the same guy that was like saying, you could fuck my sister, bro, or whatever, like that guy would be watching it on the weekend. He'd be like, these people are going to Hades or whatever, you know, like it was.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  Seriously though, it just wasn't gonna work. And then it got more interesting and more interesting. And then it started overwhelming boxing, which was crazy.

• 1:08:15Speaker 00

  Oh, the journey of it all has been crazy, but in the beginning, yeah. I mean, when you saw this, you were like, what the fuck?

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  I mean, look at that. What's happening? Is this, is this a, is this heavyweight? And what happened to the guy? Did he deflate?

• 1:08:28Speaker 00

  It just seems like, I'm trying to think what happened.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  And look, no gloves, bare knuckle.

• 1:08:34Speaker 00

  And then now we've come all the way around back around a bare knuckle.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  Bare knuckle.

• 1:08:38Speaker 00

  With Mike Perry.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:39Speaker 00

  And what a great, what amazing to watch Mike Perry's journey where he like, he was in UFC, beloved by people just for wearing his, all of his heart on both of his sleeves and just like, and, but couldn't, he would always just go straight at the guy and get hit a million times. But then he created this other outlet for, and it just like, I don't know.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Unreal.

• 1:08:58Speaker 00

  So many great stories. I mean, Nick turned me on, our producer Nick's the one that kind of turned me on to UFC. And, um, we had Tate Fletcher in and then we had, um.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  I know Tate.

• 1:09:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's a great guy.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  I know Tate really well.

• 1:09:08Speaker 00

  And then Dustin Poirier came on and then he and I became friends. And then just like David Spade took me to a UFC fight. And then, um, and then since then, yeah, we've gotten to go. And now they're letting me even work on the ring side and doing like a, um.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  Like commentating?

• 1:09:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's a, like a, just a casual commentating, like.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, just throwing out shit?

• 1:09:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, just me watching the fights with like Dean Thomas. So.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  No way.

• 1:09:30Speaker 00

  If you ever come, you have to be a guest. We had Anthony Kiedis last time. Drew Brees came and was a guest, dude. Drew Brees who like, like, he came and was a guest, um, just like, some moments like that Gagey came, Rogan was, just like, none of that matters, but just to be able to sit there with them that we all have this thing in common.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 1:09:51Speaker 00

  So cool.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  It's amazing. It's nice to have a through line. That's what I'm saying about the motorcycles and, and, and, you know, it's like, you have the through line, man. You have this interest, you have this shared interest and you're like, this is fucking bitchin'. And yeah, the UFC stuff is huge for me and always has been. What, what was the last fight? I haven't been to a fight in a long time. The last fight I went to was when Holly Holmes lost to Misha Tate.

• 1:10:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  That was Nate Diaz, when Nate Diaz won or lost to Conor McGregor.

• 1:10:25Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  Conor, what, submission by whom? Oh, by Nate, so Nate Diaz won and Holly Holmes lost.

• 1:10:33Speaker 00

  That was a long time ago.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was a while ago. That was the last fight that I was at and I, and I saw Joe there and all that.

• 1:10:39Speaker 00

  Oh yeah. It's, it's just so much fun, dude.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  It's so much fun.

• 1:10:41Speaker 00

  And all the people that Dana has working around him, Craig Borsari, um, Nicole Amber, just like, there's so many people there. And now when I see him, like I just remember, like it's family. It really feels like it.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  Like family.

• 1:10:55Speaker 00

  You have, I, I do want to make sure that we talk about, you have a new project coming out called Whale Fall?

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  What do you want to talk about?

• 1:11:03Speaker 00

  Well.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  Have you seen it? No.

• 1:11:05Speaker 00

  I haven't seen it. They won't allow me to watch it.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  No, I don't, no, I, I think I knew that. Um.

• 1:11:10Speaker 00

  And that's okay.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, Whale Fall, Austin Abrams. It's, it's bitchin'. I mean, it really is like a word that I can use that you understand. It's one of these movies. It's, there's a book written by, uh, Daniel Kraus, who's become a really close friend, who stayed in our house for a couple of weeks, finishing his last novel. He just won the Pulitzer for the novel that he did after this, which is called Angel Down. I read this while I was doing, while I was working with Ridley in Italy on.

• 1:11:39Speaker 00

  Ridley Scott?

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, with the Dog Stars that just came out. And I was reading this book while I was doing that movie and I remember getting to the end of the book and I slowed it down, which I hadn't done for a long time and slowed it down because I didn't want it to end. And then it ended and I put the book on my chest and I fucking sobbed. Like, when was the last time I've done that?

• 1:11:59Speaker 00

  Of what? You mean Whale Fall?

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  When I read the book. And then I didn't even read the script. I said, I'm in, I'll do it. And, you know, it's not like, it's playing the dad of Austin Abrams who goes, the dad dies. Austin Abrams goes out to try to find his remains, knowing where he went down. He jumped out of a boat, went down.

• 1:12:19Speaker 00

  Don't tell me everything.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I won't tell you everything. He gets swallowed by the whale and then.

• 1:12:24Speaker 00

  God.

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  And you're like, how do you do a movie where a dude spends 80% of the story? How do you write a book or do a movie where the guy spends 80% of the time in, in a whale?

• 1:12:34Speaker 00

  In a whale.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  And it's fucking really good.

• 1:12:37Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Like, and I'm pretty, I'm pretty honest about when I see a movie, I go, nah, we missed a little bit.

• 1:12:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, you said Thrasher was bad.

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. It came along though.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  It did. And then, and then I learned not to say shit's bad.

• 1:12:50Speaker 00

  Wow, yeah.

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Because somebody comes up and says, hey, man, you know, my parents were junkies and this, and I watched that movie and I found skateboarding and skateboarding became my, skateboarding saved my life. And I go, okay, so I'll never say, you know, hey, were you in Thrash? And I go, yeah, that movie sucked. You know what I mean? Like, why do you put that on there? That's not their experience. So Whale Fall did, doesn't suck. Whale Fall is really good. The directing's really good, the acting, Austin Abrams is amazing. He was in Weapons with me.

• 1:13:21Speaker 00

  Bring up a picture of Austin Abrams. Dude, I got to meet freaking Austin Butler not long ago. Have you ever met him?

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  I did Dune with him.

• 1:13:27Speaker 00

  You did?

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:13:28Speaker 00

  Dude, I have to fucking watch that.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  I did Dune with him. Yeah.

• 1:13:32Speaker 00

  That's him?

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's him. He looks a little skinny there, but if you look to the left, he looks a little more full-faced.

• 1:13:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. He also looks a bit like.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  That looks a little like you.

• 1:13:43Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  What about that one?

• 1:13:49Speaker 00

  No, he looks like Timothy.

• 1:13:50Speaker 01

  You didn't see, you didn't, like Timothy Chalamet, you think so?

• 1:13:53Speaker 00

  Chalamet, maybe dude.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Oh god.

• 1:13:57Speaker 00

  And I'm, it does, no shade.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  No shame, Austin.

• 1:13:59Speaker 00

  Also, to even look close to Timothy Chalamet is pretty good.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:03Speaker 00

  But that's cool, bro.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Timothy's kind of the tip top of it all right now.

• 1:14:07Speaker 00

  Timothy's a neat guy.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, you haven't seen Dune?

• 1:14:10Speaker 00

  I haven't seen, oh, I will tell you this, I tried to watch it and the fricking audio was bad on the television I was watching.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  Oh, so, so you can't do that, because the audio is like everything in that movie.

• 1:14:18Speaker 00

  So.

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  Dune one, Dune two, Dune three.

• 1:14:22Speaker 00

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Sicario, have you seen Sicario?

• 1:14:26Speaker 00

  Uh-uh, is that with Marlon Brando?

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  No, that's with me and, um, wait, who? Vanessa del Toro.

• 1:14:34Speaker 00

  The other worst actor?

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  The other worst actor, yeah. Um, uh, Emily Blunt, that's a good movie, dude.

• 1:14:41Speaker 00

  Sicario?

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:42Speaker 00

  I'll put it on stuff to consume, I have a list of things to consume in my.

• 1:14:45Speaker 01

  You know, I'm an actor.

• 1:14:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  That's what I do.

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  What do you do?

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  I heard you were sober.

• 1:14:52Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 1:14:55Speaker 00

  Bro, I'm sorry, dude.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  No, it's good.

• 1:14:58Speaker 00

  Okay, good, sorry dude, yeah. Yeah, I know a lot of stuff.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  I know you do.

• 1:15:03Speaker 00

  Okay, thanks.

• 1:15:04Speaker 01

  You're a smart dude.

• 1:15:04Speaker 00

  Thanks, dude.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  You are.

• 1:15:06Speaker 00

  Um.

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  Oh, there's another one, thanks for bringing up another one, Only the Brave.

• 1:15:10Speaker 00

  Only the Brave with Miles Teller, dude.

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  And Jeff Bridges.

• 1:15:15Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  There's Jeff.

• 1:15:16Speaker 00

  Miles is a good dancer.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Miles is a good dancer.

• 1:15:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  He is, how do you know that?

• 1:15:23Speaker 00

  He just dances to the beat of his own drum, I've seen him at places, him dancing, and sometimes I used to go up and talk to him if I saw him, I mean, Miles and I get along well and I,

• 1:15:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:30Speaker 00

  We're buddies, we'll text and stuff and chat about the fights.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:33Speaker 00

  But now if I see him dance, then I just stay and admire it.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I do too, because you can't dance, right?

• 1:15:38Speaker 00

  Not like him.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  No, I can't dance either.

• 1:15:40Speaker 00

  Enjoy himself.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:42Speaker 00

  I always had a tough time enjoying myself, does that make any sense?

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  No, it does, it makes perfect sense, because I had the same thing, like, I look like an idiot right now.

• 1:15:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  And imagine doing it on film.

• 1:15:52Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  Where they go, hey, you're gonna do this dance, and everybody goes, oh.

• 1:15:56Speaker 00

  Too scary.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  That sucks.

• 1:15:58Speaker 00

  Too scary.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  Josh looks like a Neanderthal trying to dance, that's not cool. I'm like, no, I can't do it, I can't do it, and then Miles does it, and you go, that's how it's done.

• 1:16:08Speaker 00

  It can be done, yeah, he just, and he does his own way, yeah, I admire that he's just able to be such in a, in a free space.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a good actor too.

• 1:16:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, dude, he's good.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Really good.

• 1:16:19Speaker 00

  He's really good, he's so entertaining.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:21Speaker 00

  Um, oh, what, what about the book made you sob at the, at the end, was it just the ending, or was it something?

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  No, I think it was the father-son ex, uh, relationship, because the father in the book is super hard on the son, and the son rejects it in a major way, and then, when he need, what he needs in order to hopefully survive, is exactly what the father taught him. Do you know what I mean? So it's not like the father was just being a dick to be a dick, it's just the way that came out that seemed dicky.

• 1:16:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:16:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:59Speaker 01

  So then, and then you realize, oh, the dad actually cared, and it actually meant something. And maybe somehow the father even knew intuitively that he was gonna need it.

• 1:17:10Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 1:17:12Speaker 01

  That was cool to me.

• 1:17:13Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  That's a good writer to me, like, somebody who, you're just reading this kind of surface thing, and you're like, yeah, this is a really cool story, and then somehow, somebody reaches inside you and just fucking grabs your heart and fucking squeezes it.

• 1:17:26Speaker 00

  Surprise, motherfucker.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Surprise, motherfucker.

• 1:17:28Speaker 00

  I'm not even a doctor.

• 1:17:32Speaker 00

  Dude, yeah.

• 1:17:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:34Speaker 00

  Your dad, and your dad was an actor.

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  My dad is an actor.

• 1:17:37Speaker 00

  Is your dad, sorry.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  He's still alive.

• 1:17:39Speaker 00

  Thank god.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Thank god. He's still, he's eighty-six, and he's, he's killing it, he's doing well.

• 1:17:48Speaker 00

  Well, James, you have a nice son. I'll say that to you.

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:17:52Speaker 00

  Was your dad, your dad was famous when you were growing up?

• 1:17:54Speaker 01

  He, he, he fluctuated, man, he did a show called, uh, fuck, Marcus Welby, when I was a kid, so, we were, my parents were super poor, and they both come, my dad was kind of middle-class family, my mom was super poor family, from Texas, and then, and then he got this fucking role on TV that became like the Friends of that generation, it was a number one TV show for like five years.

• 1:18:22Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, what was it called, Marcus Welby? Yeah, look at, that's him. And then he, and then he fluctuated, he did a movie called Amityville Horror, like, maybe twenty years after that, or maybe ten years after that, so he would have money and then not have money, and then have money and not have money, and he, you know, like, normal actor, man.

• 1:18:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  Normal creative profession, it's like, you know, you have books that sell and books that don't sell, you have movies that do well, you have movies that don't do well.

• 1:18:51Speaker 00

  So you saw this growing up, do you think that's why you ended up on Vice and stuff?

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  It's part of it, I think it's part of it.

• 1:18:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, some of you, you.

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  But my mom rode a Harley, he didn't ride a Harley, my mom rode a Harley.

• 1:19:01Speaker 00

  Fuck, yeah.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  With the monkey. Which was probably unsafe.

• 1:19:05Speaker 00

  Reggie?

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  Reggie, Reggie rode on the back.

• 1:19:07Speaker 00

  Dude, how could I have a suspended license? How in the fuck did he?

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  You do, right now?

• 1:19:11Speaker 00

  How do you get a license?

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  Oh wait, you have a suspended?

• 1:19:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  I had one.

• 1:19:15Speaker 00

  Did you?

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, seventeen, eighteen, sixteen, seventeen, seventeen, eighteen.

• 1:19:20Speaker 00

  You got suspended?

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. They'll give it back, they don't like to sometimes.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  They don't like to give it back.

• 1:19:25Speaker 00

  They don't, and, and they shouldn't, but they'll give it back. Dude, but what about, so, if your dad was famous, was it weird, it was fame like this weird thing that you felt like, um?

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  I still feel it, man, I mean, look, if we.

• 1:19:37Speaker 00

  But did you feel like you're, like, was your, was it a big thing to your dad, or was the acting a big thing, is that a weird question?

• 1:19:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it was my, my mom, like, I don't mean to demean my dad, but my mom would call studio heads when my dad didn't get something and say, are you stupid?

• 1:19:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  Have you seen my husband? Like, he's six-four, super handsome, like, why would you use this other guy? When you could use him, so they were all talking about my mom. Because my mom, like I said, had no filter. She was everything.

• 1:20:07Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  So she would just call and just, you know, and, and they would talk to each other and be like, have you gotten a call from this girl, like, oh yeah, I talked to her last week. And, and my dad, not all his jobs, but he got some jobs from that, you know what I mean?

• 1:20:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  But fame was like, uh, I remember my dad doing really well at some point, and I, and he would get really irritated with the attention.

• 1:20:29Speaker 00

  With the attention?

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, with the attention, with public attention, some people eat it up. You know, do you?

• 1:20:37Speaker 00

  Um, I think there was a time where you were excited about it.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:41Speaker 00

  You want people to know who you are.

• 1:20:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:43Speaker 00

  And then there's a time, like, I think it got to a point where it was kind of, maybe I don't put scary as the word, but, um, you know what? I miss, like, I used to, one thing I even like, used to like about comedy, was if it was a surprise to people.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:58Speaker 00

  Because when people don't know that you're, that, or if people haven't seen you.

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  That's what I mean.

• 1:21:03Speaker 00

  Then you can, you have the opportunity to surprise them with something that you say, and that disappears, so then you have to work in a different space with humor.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:12Speaker 00

  And maybe with anything.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  Which may be cool, because you're having to reinvent your own humor.

• 1:21:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  So that's cool, because that's creative.

• 1:21:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  And you have to like redesign this whole thing, but at the same time, it's kind of a bummer, because everybody knows you, if you do too many fricking podcasts or too many interviews, people know you so well, that what could you possibly do?

• 1:21:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  On the stage or on the screen, that people are like, I had no idea. And I thought you were a paraplegic.

• 1:21:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:42Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 1:21:43Speaker 00

  And you're playing Prefontaine?

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:21:46Speaker 00

  And dude, I think sometimes you start to like, I don't know, I think there's moments where it's like, I, I don't, like, you don't even like, like, I don't know if it's like, you don't even like yourself that you put out there or something, or it's like, you want to be something different, I don't know.

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:04Speaker 00

  It's all, I think a lot of it's been kind of interesting, here's what I do think about it, a lot of times I try not to attach myself to it too much, when I do, that gets kind of like, then I'm really stuck kind of in some ego space.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:16Speaker 00

  And I try to, um, just be like, okay, this is an interesting experiment, that God kind of has me in, I get to see what this is like to have popularity.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:24Speaker 00

  I get to see what it's like.

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll experiment with this.

• 1:22:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  I'll experiment my reaction to it, I'll experiment with, yeah, see, that's when it's cool.

• 1:22:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's not, like, I don't want it to determine, um, like, there were times when I was struggling with sobriety, and I didn't even want to talk about it on the podcast.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:41Speaker 00

  Because.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you were struggling with it.

• 1:22:44Speaker 00

  But I, but I, I'm okay with that part, but I didn't want, this is about alcoholism, I think, but it's like, I was afraid that, well, what if people respond to that in some way?

• 1:22:55Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:22:55Speaker 00

  And then, my alcoholistic mind or whatever starts either relapsing, or doing something like that, just to get people to then like, pay attention.

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  I got it.

• 1:23:06Speaker 00

  It was like, I don't want to like.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  What if I play into this public persona?

• 1:23:10Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  So they'll keep liking me, or they'll care, or I can surprise them in this way.

• 1:23:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:23:15Speaker 01

  I lived on that, man, I lived on the stories that I wouldn't even remember. But I lived on because it made me, it materialized me, it made me seen, it was like, fuck, do you know what you did yesterday? I was like, no, what?

• 1:23:30Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  And they were like, dude.

• 1:23:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 1:23:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  And then you go, oh, okay, that's who I am. Like, me talking about my mom now, and you're fascinated, I'm like, I'll create my version of that.

• 1:23:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  And then to not do that, you have to create this other thing, and then, you know, like you, you're obviously really good at what you do, and people are like, oh, you're good at that, you're not just good at cocaine.

• 1:23:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, tell me, tell me a little bit more about what you're saying, because I'm a little confused on it.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think that fame, what fame can do is define you in a way, and I don't want to be defined. I don't want to be defined as an alcoholic, I don't want to be defined as famous, I don't want to be defined even as an actor, like, I realize it's what I do.

• 1:24:17Speaker 00

  I don't want to be defined as anything.

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  As anything.

• 1:24:19Speaker 00

  What is that?

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  I want to keep discovering shit, I want to keep learning shit, I want to keep surprising myself. If I decided to quit acting tomorrow, and I decided to become a full-time trader, if I wanted to be a photographer, I wanted to do this, I want to be allowed to do that. I don't want to be imprisoned by some idea that I've finally been accepted as this one thing, because that's not my goal, is to be accepted. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:24:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, as you're saying, I'm thinking about it. I don't want to be defined.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  I don't want to be defined.

• 1:24:49Speaker 00

  I don't want you to know who I am because I don't know who I am.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Right. But then what what happens when you finally know who you are? Or you don't care as much how people perceive you? And then you're like, I'm good with that. You know, it's like when with with fame, I said, there's one thing if with fame. I've realized this is that every every person who looks at me with some kind of an idea that it's elevated, that what I do is elevated. They think that as an actor who's doing well is walking a perpetual red carpet waving at a perpetual audience. Like, you don't do real shit.

• 1:25:28Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  Like, you don't change the chicken, like shavings and with the shit all over it and put it in the bag and then take the bag to the trash yourself.

• 1:25:37Speaker 00

  Right. You don't pet the pig. You just eat the pork.

• 1:25:39Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 1:25:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  That's exactly right. And you go, no, I don't want to. I don't want that. I don't want that. And then people do that. Then they start thinking, oh, that's what I gotta do as a famous actor. I gotta.

• 1:25:53Speaker 00

  I gotta overreact.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  I gotta just eat the pork. Fuck the pig. I don't even want to see the pig. I'm hungry. You know, can you go do that thing that you do to prepare my?

• 1:26:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And I just don't want to do that, especially in my profession, because I like your profession. You're a mirror. You throw shit back in people's face and they can laugh at it. They can laugh at their foibles. They can laugh at their, you know, how absurd we are. And the shit that we say and the stuff that we do. And I think that actors do the same thing in story. It's like, you know what I mean?

• 1:26:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, when you see an actor do something that you just can't and they or a scene that does something that you can't even.

• 1:26:38Speaker 01

  You don't even know why you're crying.

• 1:26:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  You don't know why you're laughing.

• 1:26:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:26:43Speaker 01

  You ever done that thing where you're watching a movie and you're like cry laughing? You're like, so I'm moved, but at the same time, it's.

• 1:26:50Speaker 00

  Family man.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  Like, family man?

• 1:26:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:26:54Speaker 00

  Have you seen that Nicholas Cage?

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. That's old school. That's old school. You love that movie.

• 1:27:01Speaker 00

  I love it.

• 1:27:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's good. See, everybody has their thing.

• 1:27:04Speaker 00

  I love that movie.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  That's why you can't say like thrashing ew. You're like, I don't know.

• 1:27:09Speaker 00

  I'm gonna go watch that.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  And we have those movies that have those books. We have those movies. We have those. Seeing Eddie Murphy for the first time, I remember when I was in my room in Santa Barbara and I had this little TV, this little like and with the with the uh the antenna.

• 1:27:25Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  You know, and I'm watching, what was it? Delirious? For the first time, I'm like, what the fuck?

• 1:27:32Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:33Speaker 01

  This is amazing.

• 1:27:34Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Felt like something new, like you couldn't even get into the world. Dude, my, we had my, we had a TV like that and I would step and watch stuff sometimes and my brother would be like, turn off the fucking TV. Or I will fucking hide your legs in your asshole, right? He would say stuff like that because he was creative. But then here's what he would happen to. This is what he would do to me. He'd be like, oh, you can watch it, but you have to fucking keep your eyes closed, dude. And he'd be like, so he's so dude, I would.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  More creative.

• 1:28:01Speaker 00

  Crazy. So I'd have to have the volume on the lowest thing as possible. I would be this close to the fucking.

• 1:28:09Speaker 00

  Watching a fucking program while he fucking tells me.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  Brother? Yes, of course.

• 1:28:14Speaker 00

  While he tells me he's awake, but really it fucking dozed off in a second later, but I couldn't tell because he was like, it was dark in there.

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  Hilarious.

• 1:28:21Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:28:22Speaker 01

  That's hilarious.

• 1:28:23Speaker 00

  Fuck, stuff like that was so good.

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  Louisiana. Yeah, stuff like that is so good. You look back on it. You're like, that was, that was a good time. That wasn't a bad time.

• 1:28:31Speaker 00

  We're fucking, we were, we were making stories, at least like, even though I was like, I don't know. There were parts of me that had to come alive so early, I think, because things were so uncomfortable and I'm glad, I think I'm glad that they were alive. It took me kind of a long time to get there.

• 1:28:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:46Speaker 00

  And I had a lot of resentment. I'm forty six.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:49Speaker 00

  So I'm almost I'm almost your age, but getting close though.

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  Twelve years.

• 1:28:54Speaker 00

  You're twelve years older than me?

• 1:28:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:56Speaker 00

  God.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude.

• 1:28:57Speaker 00

  You fucking look good. You know, and I wish you, why chill, bro? I wish you were a fricking woman.

• 1:29:08Speaker 00

  And I don't even know what that means, dude. I gotta get some help.

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  We should just stop it there.

• 1:29:11Speaker 00

  I don't know. We're all.

• 1:29:12Speaker 01

  We wish you were a woman. Thank you for joining us. This is the Theo Von Podcast.

• 1:29:18Speaker 00

  Um, I do want to talk about one thing. I want to talk about like, so I'm going through the steps again right now.

• 1:29:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, right on.

• 1:29:25Speaker 00

  With my sponsor.

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:26Speaker 00

  And um, did you, like, I was just thinking about resentments. Did you ever have yourself as a resentment?

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  Of course. Oh, my God, probably the biggest one.

• 1:29:36Speaker 00

  That's crazy, dude.

• 1:29:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, why? That's come, that's.

• 1:29:38Speaker 00

  That's come up for me. Yeah, I and somebody said something in a meeting the other day, dude, and they said, um I'm unacceptable to myself.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:48Speaker 00

  And I had never heard those words before.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:51Speaker 00

  And it was like, man, that's a lot of and I'm not in self pity. I'm just looking at it.

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  No, no, no, just looking at it.

• 1:29:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. But I'm like, dude, that is a lot of like.

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  Self loathing.

• 1:30:01Speaker 00

  I've just, it gets like I'm unacceptable to myself.

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know, not.

• 1:30:06Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  It's super interesting. And I heard and I and I've told this story before, but I'll tell you a story that I loved and it shifted something in me. And Tony Hopkins told me this story, right? Who very proudly wears his sobriety on his sleeve.

• 1:30:20Speaker 00

  Yep, I've heard.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  Talks about it and will be in Instagram or whatever, which I love that Tony Hopkins is on Instagram.

• 1:30:26Speaker 00

  He's an artist.

• 1:30:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's just, he loves like, it's not even like, you know, Instagram is this thing where you're trying to project some image and that people believe he doesn't give a fuck.

• 1:30:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  He's just like, this is me.

• 1:30:38Speaker 00

  Oh, I'll get.

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  And look at now, he's just like wrote all these songs. Like now he's not even focused on acting. He's like doing these compositions. And these Phil Harmonics are doing his music. It's just the coolest human being ever. But he told me he was like, how great is it that we're like this? And I go, what does that mean? He was like, we're just alcoholic. We're just angry and we're edgy and we're just dark. And I was like, is that a good thing? Is that like, I've always been, I always perceived that as like, that it's shitty and again. And he goes, no, because given no direction and no tools, we create more harm and hurt than normal people, than most people. But given a few tools, we can have a bigger impact than most people.

• 1:31:23Speaker 01

  Given that we have the drive, that we have the motor. We have the motor of alcoholics. I'm like, fuck, yeah.

• 1:31:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:31:33Speaker 01

  But I heard that and I thought this is an eighty year old guy telling me this shit. You're, that's it.

• 1:31:40Speaker 00

  And he's British as well.

• 1:31:42Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 1:31:43Speaker 00

  It just means he was fucking raised with a fucking eating Cadbury eggs and everything over there.

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  He's Welsh.

• 1:31:49Speaker 00

  He's Welsh?

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  He's Welsh, like, like Richard Burton. Which the Welsh are different.

• 1:31:55Speaker 00

  Are they?

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  Welsh are darker.

• 1:31:56Speaker 00

  Are they?

• 1:31:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 1:31:57Speaker 00

  Oh, that's good.

• 1:31:58Speaker 01

  They're like great poets. Dylan Thomas was Welsh.

• 1:32:01Speaker 00

  I gotta study up on them.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. I'll send you a couple of books. I'm gonna send you my book.

• 1:32:05Speaker 00

  Will you?

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, see, of course I will.

• 1:32:07Speaker 00

  Great.

• 1:32:07Speaker 01

  I want you to say.

• 1:32:08Speaker 00

  Put it up on our shelf, dude.

• 1:32:09Speaker 01

  Okay, good.

• 1:32:09Speaker 00

  Um, on that note, I do want to say I I read somewhere that you were friends with Cormac McCarthy or you that you knew him.

• 1:32:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I was with him the night he died.

• 1:32:18Speaker 00

  No way, dude.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was me, his son, his ex-wife and him.

• 1:32:22Speaker 00

  Did he live in Tennessee?

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  No, he lived in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and I was there working. I was doing a series. And I would come in and see him and at his house. I have I have his typewriter. I have his pool table.

• 1:32:34Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  His couch, shit that he gave me after, you know? It's cool. It's cool. He was a good dude. I like the hard guys.

• 1:32:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  I like the, I like the guys that like you, you think that like Cormac and the shit that he wrote is so severe and so, you know? But then he was the nicest guy and he's so smart. He's so smart. Twenty thousand books he left. Um, when he died and they were archiving his books and he would have, he had like a thousand books on math. Or a thou- or or three hundred books on whales. You're like, oh, you're a freak. I love that. Talk about not being defined. And plus, that's another guy, which I think there was a parallel, even though we didn't talk about it. Is that the first until All the Pretty Horses, which I think is his sixth novel or his seventh?

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  That people had maybe bought maybe twelve hundred books of each novel. So nobody bought his shit.

• 1:33:31Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  And he kept going. And it's kind of like me as an actor, like, yeah, I started with the Goonies, which was cool, but then after that it was downhill.

• 1:33:40Speaker 00

  Nobody bought my shit.

• 1:33:41Speaker 01

  Nobody cared. Nobody cared.

• 1:33:43Speaker 00

  Oh, I was singing Shirley Temp.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, you exactly. That's what I mean.

• 1:33:47Speaker 00

  For free near windows that wouldn't open.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  Dude, like now you're forty six and things are good, you know? It's great.

• 1:33:53Speaker 00

  I know. Sometimes I can't believe God's grace in my life, even just in little moments.

• 1:33:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:56Speaker 00

  You know, and when I'm in that space, it's just everything's oh, it feels okay.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  I like what you said earlier, where you just like, everything's an experiment. As long as I'm malleable, I'm like wet clay. And I'm like, yeah, good. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, look at that. That's cool.

• 1:34:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  You know, not like this, not contracting and not like that. You know, just like, ah, that's interesting. It's just like, it's all kind of fascinating. Going to UFC is fascinating. Getting up and trying to make people laugh is fascinating. Doing a movie and trying to make it work is fascinating.

• 1:34:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, dude, it's so true.

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  Like human shit.

• 1:34:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yesterday I had to do a solo episode of a podcast and I was so scared. And then I was like, dude, I'm gonna have let me remember why I started this. I can, let me go and try to have some fun.

• 1:34:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:43Speaker 00

  Instead of fucking live in this whatever cage, I'm fucking always over here welding these fucking bars and screaming through them.

• 1:34:54Speaker 01

  That's cool. You did an episode by yourself?

• 1:34:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, we started this podcast. We did first hundred episodes. It was just be by myself talking. And then we started having friends on and stuff like that.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 1:35:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was fun.

• 1:35:05Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 1:35:06Speaker 00

  It's been a good journey, dude. Um, it's funny. Interesting. He had all those books on whales and you ended up and your new project is called Whale Fall.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  And I got super inspired by that. And then I wrote a new story that we're going to do in January called The Fisherman. And then after that, which is like, this is full circle with the rat. Then Jeremy Renner and I, there's a story that's a true story that took place in Montauk about a guy, two guys that went out on a boat fishing in this Montauk fishing community. One guy fell asleep. One dude fell off the boat. And this guy was looking for this guy for 12 and a half hours. And this dude was just like a rat waiting in the water. No way he was going to survive. No way he was going to be found. It was like a 200 mile, you know, this radius and you just like, there's no way you're going to find the dude. And he had no floating device. He had no, nothing.

• 1:35:57Speaker 00

  Dang.

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  And he survived.

• 1:35:59Speaker 00

  Fuck.

• 1:36:00Speaker 01

  Like a rat. 12 and a half hours of swimming in place until he was found right at the last second. He probably was sharks surrounded by sharks. So I'm going to be the, I'm going to be the rat.

• 1:36:13Speaker 01

  And Jeremy's going to be the guy looking for me.

• 1:36:15Speaker 00

  Dude, much easier job Renner has. I'll say that, bro. Taking the easy, this guy.

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  I'll do it with Roland. That sounds fun.

• 1:36:25Speaker 00

  You're fucking soaking wet every set.

• 1:36:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like the whale stuff though. I like.

• 1:36:33Speaker 00

  Wow. That's a lighthouse.

• 1:36:37Speaker 01

  That's the nautical shit.

• 1:36:38Speaker 00

  Did you get that done after that?

• 1:36:40Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:36:41Speaker 00

  Let's go.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:36:44Speaker 00

  You, it meant that much?

• 1:36:45Speaker 01

  I mean, it meant that much. And it was a guy who had passed that it was in his honor.

• 1:36:49Speaker 00

  You already showed it once.

• 1:36:50Speaker 01

  It was in his honor.

• 1:36:52Speaker 00

  I'm looking at the art to not look at your body.

• 1:36:56Speaker 00

  Okay, now you're making it different.

• 1:37:00Speaker 00

  Oh dude, that's cool, bro.

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  I mean, it just is what it is. And I don't have to look at it. Everybody else has to look at it. But I know I'm carrying it and that's all I give a shit about.

• 1:37:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  It's a good reminder for me. And there's a great word, arate. It's a Greek word that this guy gave me and it means excellence in everything that you do. And then the five birds of my family. So that's cool.

• 1:37:21Speaker 00

  That's a family crest?

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  Experiment it. Experimenting. That's it. Why get a tattoo? I don't know. Why the fuck not?

• 1:37:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  I don't have, I mean, I have these, but I don't really have it. I had all my tattoos removed.

• 1:37:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:37:33Speaker 01

  When I was 30. Yeah. Didn't need them anymore. And then this one came and sure, why not? Do it.

• 1:37:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:37:43Speaker 01

  Experiment, man.

• 1:37:44Speaker 00

  I love it. Um.

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  Nice spending time, bro.

• 1:37:47Speaker 00

  You too, dude. Nice to get to catch up. Nice to get to say hello and to spend some time together, man. Uh, I've heard you speak before. Yeah, I think it was at Bread and Roses. Yeah.

• 1:37:56Speaker 01

  Right on. And we know Laj.

• 1:37:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, we know Laj, dude. He's such a sweet guy.

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  He is a sweet guy.

• 1:38:01Speaker 00

  I gotta check in with him. I'll send, I'll, I'll text him a picture of us when we're done.

• 1:38:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, good.

• 1:38:05Speaker 00

  But yeah, thanks so much, Josh. Thanks for just being a creative. Thanks for sticking with your art. Uh, that's cool because now you can tell stories that are going to inspire the rest of us. Thanks for telling me about Whale Fall and just that it meant something to you. Because, um, yeah, sometimes it's like, you don't know who else, um, is looking for that little piece of connection between like, or, or something about a father and a son. And they're going to hear about that and that might be something for them. So.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:38:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. Getting out here today to be a bridge, uh, for little moments. Um, that's pretty cool.

• 1:38:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:32Speaker 00

  So, uh, Josh Roland, thank you so much, man.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  Thank you, brother.

• 1:38:35Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  Much love.