#670 - Erin Brockovich

Erin Brockovich is an environmentalist and people advocate known for her namesake movie and involvement in high profile lawsuits. She currently runs the Brockovich Data Center Reporting Map. Erin joins Theo to talk about the troubling effects data centers are having on communities, why their demand for water might be a ploy for something bigger, and how people can make real change by uniting. Erin Brockovich: https://www.instagram.com/the_real_erin_brockovich/ Brockovich Data Center Reporting Map: https://www.brockovichdatacenter.com/ ------------------------------------------------- Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ Morgan and Morgan: Visit https://forthepeople.com/THEO to see if you might have a case. Morgan and Morgan. America's Largest Injury Law Firm. Modiphy: Get 50% off the last website you’ll ever need at https://modiphy.com/THEO Perplexity AI: Ask anything at https://pplx.ai/theo Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on our episodes. ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: [email protected] Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Mail stuff to: ATTN: TPW PO BOX 40137 Nashville TN 37204 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend X: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Trevyn https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/ Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Producer: Andrew https://www.instagram.com/bleachmediaofficial/ Producer: Halston https://www.instagram.com/halstonrays/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  Today's guest is an environmental activist and a consumer advocate. Her name is notorious with being for the people. She's known for leading some high-profile cases over the years. Lately, she's focused on the rise of data centers and their effects on life around them. I'm thankful today to spend time with Ms. Erin Brockovich.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  If you need to move this, Erin, you can. Can I open your water? Sometimes these are very...

• 1:17Speaker 02

  I've learned that over at the hotel. I was like, my lord! And I work out, I was like, I can't get it open!

• 1:24Speaker 01

  That's the crazy thing about today, especially honestly with this Asentia company. They... I just opened it for you, but you can't even get in their waters. It's like, that's how bad it's gotten? That they almost keep you locked out of clean water in this country?

• 1:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's why my daughter will carry a knife. Boom, she'll go just like that.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  She's like that?

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. She's military police. She's hilarious.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Oh, she's an MP?

• 1:44Speaker 02

  She was, yes. They're both out now. Matt was combat vet, yeah.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Your son was combat?

• 1:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, my dad was Navy fighter pilot, so definitely... I'm a military mom and a military daughter.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Oh, that's beautiful. Well, thank them for their service from us and thank you for your service. I know you, as probably most of people, a lot of people do. I know you as an environmentalist, right? Kind of a truth seeker, I guess I would say? And like an activist, I guess? Does that... How do you like to be?

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I never say activist because that's always like a connotation. I advocate for clearly people.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  What about the term like a consumer advocate? Is that fair to say, kind of?

• 2:25Speaker 02

  A people advocate.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Okay, a people advocate. Me too. I feel like I try my best to be.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  I do too.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. And for our listeners that don't know, how did you get on this track, right? Like, take me through your journey.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  You know, I know about the movie starring Julia Roberts that was made about your life, Erin Brockovich. But take us into the journey of like, what happened to create the story that led to the film? Like, how did your activism like lead to one of the largest settlements at the time that had ever been? I think it was like over $300 million.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  $333 million.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  $333 million that was awarded?

• 3:00Speaker 02

  At the time.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  At the time?

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Now they're settling for like $33 billion. Not to laugh at, but...

• 3:06Speaker 01

  But hey.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Times have changed!

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Erin walked to the bank so they could run to it, that's for sure. So take us, I want you to take us through that journey for our listeners that don't know. Obviously, you had a care for the outdoors. How did that start?

• 3:19Speaker 02

  Okay, well, I've always been an outdoor enthusiast. I was born and raised in Kansas and I love the outdoors. Everything about it spoke to me, mostly because I hated school. I sucked at school. And it took years before they really understood I have dyslexia.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Oh, you do?

• 3:40Speaker 02

  I do.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Let's go do, my friend has it.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  I'm a dyslexic.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah. Dude, you guys don't get any credit.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  I know.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  And some of you shouldn't, but a lot of you guys should, dude.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  You should, you know? Interestingly enough, off topic and I'll just say it really quick. So I'm ambassador for Made by Dyslexia, run by Kate Griggs and Sir Richard Branson, who's also a dyslexic.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  No way.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Dude, we gotta get a good dyslexic on here.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  You do, and they're everywhere.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  I know, dude. Half of my friends are like, they can't even complete a handshake. They're just not doing good, you know? It's like...

• 4:15Speaker 02

  We just like code differently. We have pattern recognition. But I didn't even know until I became ambassador for Made by Dyslexia that there's 1 billion dyslexics on the planet.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  1 billion!

• 4:30Speaker 01

  A 1 billion D's in this world? That's crazy. Let me see.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Right?

• 4:33Speaker 01

  A billion, nah-uh! I'm saying that's ridiculous.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  I gotta learn a little bit more about this. So take me through, you know, your journey or experience as like a human advocate, like as an environmentalist, you know? Can you just take us through that so that for our listeners that don't know?

• 4:56Speaker 02

  So, I have to say, I think I was as surprised as anybody else, honestly. So, how it happened was, as I grew up in Kansas, went to school at Kansas State, then I went to a design school in Texas, and then I moved to California. I ended up being a regional manager for Kmart.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  And it wasn't my favorite job, and then I ended up working at FLURE engineers and constructors. So I was raised by an engineer. It was kind of fun for me. I like to create things, et cetera, et cetera. Even though everybody always told me I couldn't do anything, you know, with the dyslexia.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  But I always pushed against that. So I'm one that pushes against these things.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  So out of the gate, that dyslexia might have gave you that edge, like, ah, I can still do it.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  It did.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  I'll show you.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Don't put me in a box because I will get out and I will kick and scream the whole way there. So...

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Amen.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  I, that's one of my traits. I'm like, yeah, no, I don't, none of us like it. I don't like being labeled. I don't like being judged. I don't like being put in a box.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Some of us like, mimes like it.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  I'm like, fuck off. I mean, that's just my motto. So, but I don't like the squeeze. Fuck off!

• 6:12Speaker 01

  That's a good motto.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  Fuck it, fuck you, fuck off.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Dude, that's the best motto. That's what, that should become our national anthem in this, in this fucking country, to be honest with you. Okay.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  But I'm an F dropper bomb, so I hope that doesn't offend anybody.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll pick them up at the end of the show. Okay, so you got, you got the dyslexia, you got the spirit, you got what you need.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  That's right. So I go through all this process. I end up getting married. That was the biggest mistake of my life, three times over. And had children and got in a car wreck in Reno, Nevada, and moved down to California, met an attorney by the name of Jim Vittoto, who was Ed Masary's partner. So Ed Masary was the attorney in the film. And we had a trial and I lost. The jury told me to get a job.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  You had a trial for what? Oh, for the auto accident?

• 7:01Speaker 02

  For the auto accident.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Okay, got it.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  And we lost. And of course, you know, the lawyers told me we're gonna win all kinds of money and make this right by you, Erin. That did not happen. So, I went back to Ed Masary and I said, you promised me things would be okay? And they weren't, and I need a job.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  So Ed gave me a job. So in the beginning of the film, Erin Brockovich, you'll see her doing all these interviews. And of course, I'd been a single mom and I was turned down for every job. But I, but I had Ed cornered. You promised me something.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Pay up, Eddie!

• 7:35Speaker 02

  And I showed up.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Pay up, Eddie!

• 7:37Speaker 02

  It's that power of sticktutiveness that I talk about.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  When you show up, things are different.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Right! And see, that's something, and we'll get into that in a minute. I don't want to jump ahead of it, but that's what's going on right now out in this country. People are showing up.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Amen.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  And I love it because I'm watching it. We all are, especially with the data centers. We're united, bipartisan, and when we get united, we change things.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Things can happen.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  And I love it.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Amen, I love, I love that.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  And so, that's what happened. I showed up with Ed. I ended up getting a job, starting in the workers' compensation department. I like people. I'm a people person. I'm a chatty person. I want to know about you, what's going on in your life. That seems odd, so I was a perfect fit in the workers' compensation department. So one day, Ed came into the office, just like you see in the film with the big archive box of files.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Got it. And the movie's Erin Brockovich. For people that haven't seen it, you can go watch it. It's...

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Starring Julia Roberts.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Starring Julia Roberts.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  And Albert Finney.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  And Albert Finney, oh.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Great actors.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  Known for her great push-up bra.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd look, I mean, I'd hold them in place. You know what I'm saying? No, I mean... I donate my hands to Haynes or whoever made that thing and let them just, you know, I'd be the wiring in that thing, baby. Anyway, let's move on.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  I had to giggle when the film came out. I'm like, that's what you got out of the film was the push-up bra, not what happened to the people.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  You gotta bait and you gotta get them on the hook.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  You do. So they were on the hook, but.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  So you're working in workman's comp?

• 9:12Speaker 02

  So I was working in workers' comp and then Ed brought a box in to me that was a PI case, personal injury case. And he said, do you know how to open a personal injury file? I had not a clue what I was doing, but I said, sure, I know how to open it. So when I started to go through the file, I'm like, okay, so I've now put myself out here. I don't know what I'm doing. I better learn what I'm doing.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  I started reading the files. Inside this file box were medical records.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Okay. So and it's just one of the files that's like in the box?

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was just everything about a personal injury case was thrown in a box. And what kind of made me go, well, that's odd, is there were real estate records in there. I'm like, why are real estate records and medical files in the same box?

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  And the reason for that was to jump ahead and I'll go right back. Unbeknownst to me at the time, Pacific Gas and Electric was a utility company trying to buy Roberta Walker's property.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Okay. And Roberta Walker was one of the.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Planets.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  One of the plaintiffs.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  And so she had contacted Ed because PG&E was trying to buy her house. And so she just threw everything into a box. As a matter of fact, Roberta kept everything in a suitcase. So it all just got thrown in a box. So I like, you know, I like a challenge. So I'm pulling everything out of the box, making my little piles. But I was curious about the medical records.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  Because they were of children. And all, everything was done in a bar graph. So all their T cells were off, their white cells were off, their red counts were too high. Now I'm a mom and I'm thinking to myself, God, if I saw blood tests like this on my kids, I, what the fuck is this?

• 10:59Speaker 01

  Have you spooked?

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so I started researching it more and it was leading me to cancer and diseases. So I asked Ed if I could go out to Hinkley, California, which he was thrilled to let me go. Nobody in the office liked me. I annoyed everybody. My skirts were too short. My attitude sucked. My bras were showing and nobody wanted me around. So Ed was like, score, get out of here and go.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  That's classic.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  So off I went to Hinkley, California.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  And the reason why, so just to get, to get a little bit clearer. So in this box, in this, um, this woman had hired the attorney for what purpose?

• 11:46Speaker 02

  To settle a real estate claim.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Okay. So that's why the initial hiring was there, but then there was all these other records in there. Why was a Pacific and Gas trying to buy her house?

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Because Roberta was on to something and they had water issues and PG&E was holding these town hall meetings, trying to convince everybody that there was nothing wrong with the water. Now I'll tell you something I've learned ever since I began Hinkley. You piss off one mom and you pissed off Roberta and they've got great instincts and they think you're lying to them, they're gonna go find 10 other fucking pissed off moms and they're gonna actually use these instincts and they will come at you. And so these moms were getting

• 12:43Speaker 02

  upset.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Hell yeah.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  And they knew it was just that moment.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  It's time for moms to get upset.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And they've got this hunch, this instinct, this intuition, and they make it their job to find out because you're, you've harmed their child.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  And they don't believe you. And so that was the first clue for me, even in the files, talking to Roberta on the phone before I ever met her. Something was going on and you know, I have learned, I always listen and believe the people. And people will show up, but somebody else tells them. And, and when I first even started my work in Hinkley, I was getting the, you're not a doctor, you're not a lawyer, you're not a scientist, you're not a politician.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Like, so what do you do and why are you here and why should we believe you? And I had a moment where I was gobsmacked. I'm like, it never dawned on me that I had to be any of that.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Right. All you have to be really is just a curious baddie.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And to be a human and to tell you, those two-headed frogs in the green water coming out of your tap is fucked up and I'm not leaving. That's what happened.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  I'm not leaving until these frogs have one head again.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  That's right. So if y'all think that's normal, I'm sorry. You call me crazy.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Do, and there's so much of that gaslighting, like you see that all the time, even just like about podcasters talking with people like, you're not a, um, politician, you're not like a, um.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Science, uh, scienzer. You're not a, uh. Astronomer.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  Stop talking.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Cause you're none of those.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  And I'm like, bitch, but I'm fucking curious and I'm fucking loud.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  How about that?

• 14:26Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And you know what? Curiosity is a good thing.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  It, it can oftentimes get you in trouble, but sometimes it's quite surprising where it might lead you.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Well, it just, I don't, it's not, things should be fair, but I think if things are fair, people can operate from a place of comfort, of peace, and a place that gives them more autonomy.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  If things are fair, like I know that there's gonna be like setbacks in life and some people aren't gonna have the same advantages and people are gonna have disadvantages and stuff like that. And some people are gonna be born in a less like circumstances. But overall, if you could, I don't know. And I guess, and I, I guess things are never fair, but it's like, I don't know. That's something I think that a lot of people will try and fight for is things should be fair. You should be able to, you should be able to raise your kids in a healthy enough environment, you know?

• 15:12Speaker 02

  You know, that's a great word, fair. And in Hinkley, what I have learned over 30 years is people and communities always handle the truth. They won't handle the lie. That lie is unfair. And when they're not told the truth, it's unfair that they have to suck up the consequences of that lie. So fair is an interesting word. Um, and they were being treated unfairly.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Unfairly. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of transparency issues now. We're gonna get into some of that in a bit, but um, all right. So you get out to Hinkley, California and what's popping out there?

• 15:51Speaker 02

  So all the trees are dying. I'm out there. First of all, uh, I'm, when I'm boots on the ground and that's what I like to do. I'm out there generally barefoot. Um, I feel things, I connect to nature. And the moment I was there, I could feel something was wrong. You can just feel it. We're energy. Water's energy, an environment that's damaged, it's energy.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  But the trees were dead. The cows were covered in tumors. People were reporting really bizarre things to me. They themselves had, you know, these chronic headaches, skin rashes, constant nosebleeds.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  Uh, the fish had, you know, tumors on their body. The frogs had two heads and the water was green.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Are you serious?

• 16:38Speaker 02

  I'm serious.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  The frogs had two heads?

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Two heads.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Bring up one of them. Well, two of them.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  You got a two-headed frog on there?

• 16:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Hey, you wanna see this two-headed frog? That's a lot of pedophiles these days stuff like that. You go, hold on.

• 16:51Speaker 02

  You can see like, so there's other chemicals that can cause frogs to have two heads.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Oh my God, look at the second one. That one is.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  They had two heads.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  That one has dyslexia. Look at that one.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I could believe that because definitely I've been told before, you have two heads.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Sorry to laugh at my own joke, but I thought that was.

• 17:11Speaker 02

  Two different brains colliding together.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  That was pretty good. I thought based on the looks of that one, if you can't see.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  It was stunning. And I'm from Kansas. I don't see this shit in Kansas.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Right. Well, that's probably because the nature was a little bit more like, uh, I mean, if you're heading out to, if you're heading out to California, it's a place where there's a lot more probably industry going on and things could be a little bit more, um, damaged, you know, because there's, but in, in Kansas, you're probably coming from a purer environment, I'm guessing. And also dude, I remember a time in our town, like people couldn't whistle for like two months or something. And maybe it was something in the air or something was going on, you know, we had a long, uh, what's it called when the moon and the sun cross each other?

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Eclipse?

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  We had an eclipse one time. I swear, I think last for probably three days over there and people couldn't whistle. Um, you couldn't hail a taxi for probably, you know, for half a week over there.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  I've been down Louisiana. I spent six, eight weeks down there on the, down in the bayou with the whole BP oil spill.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Oh, did you really? We'll, we'll, we'll get into some of that.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Um, okay. So you get out to Hinkley, you're seeing all these things going.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  By the time I finally got Ed to go out there with me, he did not know who PG&E was. So we're driving along and he goes, okay, so kid, let's go over this. And I've seen all the stuff you've brought back. PG&E is a water utility. I'm like, what? He goes, yeah. I go, Ed, I'm from Kansas and I know who PG&E is. They're a ginormous utility. He's like, what? So that's how the whole thing began. And so it was through my record search at the water board. That's when I started discovering in writing reports that the area was contaminated with a chemical known as hexavalent chromium.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Wow. Bring it up. Let me see it right there. Hinckley groundwater contamination, PG and E, Pacific Gas and Electric, Used Chromium 6 or Hexavalent Chromium, a cheap and efficient rust suppressor.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  In its compressor station for natural gas transmission pipelines. Hexavalent Chromium compounds are genotoxic carcinogens. What does that mean, genotoxic?

• 19:18Speaker 02

  And they're mutagenic. They can affect the genes.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  And they can be passed on?

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  And you can see Trisomy 7 and different diseases like that in the children. See, and I was seeing a pattern of nasal, pharyngeal cancer, throat cancer, lung cancer, kidney cancer.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  So as I started, we could, at this point, getting a year into it, Ed can clearly see what's going on. Now, what had happened with PG and E was, again, as I said earlier, they were holding like these town hall meetings and they were telling everybody, and again, talk about unfair. They were telling everybody that it was chromium in their water, which is a natural element and it's good for you. You can find it in your breakfast cereal.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  They weren't telling him that it was Hexavalent Chromium and it was a poison.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  And so, as all this data started getting put together, and I put together what's I call a hot doc book. So, as a dyslexic, I'm here and I don't take numbers in the environment, like 5 ppm, and calculate forward. I always calculate backwards. And I needed to go find those higher numbers in time to prove what they had been exposed to over 20, 30 years.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  So, as I started getting into my record searches, I create these hot doc books, which is like almost a trial notebook, which I'm just doing instinctually, because I'm just trying to put the pieces together myself.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  To you.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  And by doing that, you're putting together a great case?

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, unbeknownst to me.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  And, you know, I was just out there every day of my life, was like, nah, this doesn't make sense to me. And this was a huge cover up. And this is where I've said, you know, people would have dealt with the truth. Hey, we need to get you out of here. We're poisoning you. But it was the lie that becomes so insidious that you just drag them through that. But, once Ed realized this was a lawsuit, he had to go hire a couple more attorneys, because he was about broke borrowing money against his house to keep things going.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Wow, so he started to believe in it that much?

• 21:38Speaker 02

  That much.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so he found two other law firms. That was Ingstrom, Lipskerman, Lack, was the head attorneys there. And we had a lawsuit and we had 634 plaintiffs. And it was filed as a direct action, not a class action. Because in a direct action, everybody's damages were different. Some people were closer to the PG and E facility, where they had higher readings in their wells. Some were further away, where we couldn't prove that the plume had gone through yet. So we filed a direct action.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  And just to go back real quick, the Hexo...

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Hexavalent.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  Hexavalent Chromium, what was it in there? It was in there to prevent rust from the pipes from rusting?

• 22:30Speaker 02

  It's an anti-rust inhibitor.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Got it, understood.

• 22:33Speaker 02

  So, it was a gas compressor facility. So, actually, there was other cases that I went and backtracked and found later. But from Topock, California, they're pushing and pulling natural gas out of Texas.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Understood.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  And then it would go from Topock, California to Barstow. And then in Barstow, it would get pushed and pulled up to Kettelman. And so, think of it like the engine of your car. And these facilities are big, huge piston engines, pushing and pulling this gas through. And so, they have to run water through the system, so it doesn't cease to operate. And these chemicals have, like Chromium 6 is an anti-rust inhibitor, because if you don't have it, rust will corrode the pipes, right? And then, they would take all the used water through the system and dump it into unlined ponds.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  So it goes right back into the soil?

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Right back into the aquifer.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Right back into the what?

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Aquifer, the water zone.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. And now I see how this, the data centers came on your radar, because that's sort of the same thing. They're using this. There's a similar thing that kind of happens is, they use so much water to cool off what's going on. So I just, now I kind of correlate like, okay, this makes perfect sense. Why her involvement, right?

• 23:52Speaker 02

  There's a whole lot of things about data centers, and I know we'll get there. I'll stay on your pace.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  That set me off. And that was one of them.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we will. We're almost to data centers.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  But what was one of the toughest parts about going after a company that big? Like, did you start to get scared? Did you personally get scared? Was there times you were laying in bed at night and be like, somebody might try to take you out? Like, how heavy did it get, really?

• 24:18Speaker 02

  People brought that up and I, I didn't kind of go there until one day. I was stealing toxic hazardous waste offsite.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  You were stealing it?

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Oh, you were pulling up somewhere that had it?

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm a bad guy. I'm stealing the toxic hazardous waste. Okay. But I was...

• 24:39Speaker 01

  To have evidence.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Okay, so, I'm sorry I stole your two-headed frog and a bunch of green fucking soil. Sue me. So, PG and E called the cops and I was gonna get arrested. I'm standing with my two-headed frog and my little file, you know, my little, what do you call it? Igloo? Because I knew to keep things cool, I had my chain of custody, writing everything down.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  You really had one in an igloo?

• 25:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  So, I'm like, are you arresting me? I said, can I at least call my attorney? So I called Ed. And Ed goes, wait a minute, you're gonna arrest her for what? And they're telling him, he goes, you know what?

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Let him.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Do it. And I'm going, what the fuck?

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Then it's on file.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  What the fuck, Ed? Anyway, he said, you do it. You do it, because it's gonna be headline news. That I want you to arrest this girl for what? Stealing two-headed frogs from a polluted site? Do it. And they let me go. And I called Ed and I'm like, were you really gonna have me arrested? He goes, oh, hell yeah, I would have had you out in five minutes. So kiddo, don't worry about it.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Wow. What a journey.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  So...

• 25:55Speaker 01

  And how did he work afterwards with the plaintiffs? So, the plaintiffs, there was over $330 million awarded, and that was divided up between the different families at certain amounts, etc.?

• 26:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, done as a direct action. So, people who live way out from a plume boundary received awards for fear of cancer versus the people that lived there 35 years, right next to the facility that were exposed to high levels, that had cancer. And so, the judges made all those rulings based on the facts surrounding their particular case.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, that's pretty amazing. What a journey, huh? Did you know at the time that it was gonna become such a big thing? You had no idea?

• 26:42Speaker 02

  No.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  None. It was just one of those moments for me that,

• 26:48Speaker 02

  this, it just didn't make sense to me. And it just wasn't right. And I felt bad for the people. And listen, they became my family. I mean, half of the group up there helped potty train my youngest daughter, Elizabeth.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  And I loved them. And it just didn't make sense.

• 27:04Speaker 01

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• 29:51Speaker 01

  I think a lot of us are in that place right now where it's like, yes, some things that just doesn't make sense. And what do we do? And how do we do it?

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Well, you know, and Roberta faced that, and I will share with you, in every environmental case that I work with, it generally is a mom that knows something's up, but isn't sure what's up. But what frustrates these mothers is when they do show up, whether it be somebody at the state, or a politician, or a leader, that they need information from our city council, they're suppressed. They get the, oh, you're hysterical mother, there's nothing really going on. And so they retreat, and they feel defeated. So that suppression is something that happens at the very beginning. And then, then when that mom gets another mom, then

• 30:42Speaker 02

  they're like, I don't, try to suppress me, because I know something's wrong. And again, we're going to go back to, I don't have to have, I don't have to have the degree, or be qualified to sit on your city council board, and I'm an idiot, that they come back in armed with information.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  And so that's generally what I do. They're usually right, but I can go find stuff that I can arm them with. Here's what you need. Here's what's going on. This is what's a fact. And then they join forces with the other mothers, and they become unbelievably formidable.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Do you believe that mothers still have as much power now as they did, like, at the time, like, of when this story started for you?

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Yes. You know, I've seen it throughout, in Flint, Michigan, the whole lead crisis, even down the BP oil spill. I'm scared of some of those mothers. I'm like, Ed, would you say, you go in there and talk to her? I'm like, no, that one scares me. You go in there and talk to her, because they know. And they don't want to hear it anymore.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  You get a swamp mama down there that gets upset?

• 31:44Speaker 02

  But I'm seeing them come back, and I'm going to jump ahead, and then I'll stop, just so you'll have it in your memory, too. They're the ones showing up on the data centers.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  Well, one of the things that put you on my radar, I mean, obviously, I knew of you, but what put you on my radar was, you wrote an article, it was like, if data centers aren't so bad, why are they building them in secrecy, I think?

• 32:07Speaker 02

  Correct. Everything begins with that secret, even Hinkley, California.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Amen. Well, what hit me about it, yeah, if data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was in Substack, the Brockovich report.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  And you talked about the biggest one, which is built in Louisiana. In the flatlands, it says right here, in the flatlands of northeast Louisiana, known for soybean fields, and dense clusters of river cane, Meta is building a 4 million square foot AI campus called Hyperion. When finished, it will consume more electricity than the entire city of New Orleans, and cover a footprint the size of Lower Manhattan. And then it says here, Meta's investment establishes the region as an anchor in Louisiana's rapidly expanding tech sector, revitalizes one of our state's beautiful rural areas, and creates opportunities for Louisiana workers to fill high paying jobs of the future, said Louisiana Governor Jeff Landry in a press statement. I thank Meta for their commitment

• 33:03Speaker 01

  to our state. And what shocked me here, though, was a resident of Holly Ridge, an unincorporated community in Richland, Richland Parish, said she found out about the data center the way everyone else in her community did when they started digging.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh, she says, nobody told us anything.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  They supposedly had a big meeting, the whole community was supposed to come, nobody knew anything about it, ever.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  But how did data centers come onto your radar?

• 33:33Speaker 02

  So I woke up one morning, and I had 30 emails, 30 individual emails, from the same community regarding the same issues, data centers. So having done this for 30 years now, anytime I get a cluster of emails, that's a sign. And then I was like, data centers? It was almost a moment like, in Hinkley, California, how come there's a chromium? What is that? Data centers? What's going on with data centers? That I started looking into it. And things, I don't know, my questions weren't being answered about data centers. So what I do is, I like to see the big picture. And I like to create maps. So I created what's

• 34:16Speaker 02

  called Brockovichdatacenter.com, where people, if they were having issues with data centers in their backyard, could self-report. And I've created self-reporting registry databases before. Think about it, we have no place where we can self-report. Everything that we report goes through an agency.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Even in Hinkley, California, and it got stuck up in the California Health Department.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  Nobody ever knew.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  And so many agencies are compromised anyway now, so why not create our own? This is amazing.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  Right. And this is a place where people who I believe that are living, breathing, and experiencing these issues are the best source of information. So what I thought when I put this map out here, in the first 72 hours, the map crashed twice. And I woke up on day three going, oh, my God, it's not one town, and one aquifer, and one data center. It's the entire country.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  We've talked about Louisiana, from the Midwest. Now, the next thing that I noticed, because each one of these people in their submission, it wasn't this one town reporting the same thing. It's the whole country. They had no idea. They had no idea. They woke up to this construction, we weren't informed, city council didn't tell us anything. We're completely in the dark, because these big tech groups came in, and put these city council members, members under non-disclosure.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Oh, is that what you're?

• 35:51Speaker 02

  Correct. In every state, in every state, every city, every town reporting to me, we knew nothing. Non-disclosure agreements.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  I just saw a video the other day, see if you can find that, Trevin. It's a woman at a city council meeting, from, oh, here, I see it, so it says right here, a resident of Tyrone Township, Michigan, confronted local officials with a simple question, have you signed an NDA with any private party regarding developments that could affect the township? Yeah, this was the clip that I saw. Can we play it?

• 36:25Speaker 03

  Have you personally signed any NDA, any agreement, or had any private communication, such as meetings, phone calls, text messages, or emails, with any developer, company, landowner, or representative regarding any current or potential project that could affect Tyrone Township? Chris Ropero. No. Dean? No. Jennifer?

• 36:45Speaker 04

  I'm not answering your question. This is not the time or place.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  I can ask you whatever I want, don't tell me what I can say.

• 36:50Speaker 04

  But we don't have to answer you.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  But you're communicating with me, Jennifer. I didn't think you were supposed to do that. Gray Karns, how about you? Yes or no?

• 36:58Speaker 04

  Not the place. We've already discussed this, so.

• 37:02Speaker 03

  Who's already discussed it? I'm sorry? Who's already discussed it?

• 37:05Speaker 04

  This has been discussed.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  Who has? Who's discussed it? I've not discussed this with you. What are you saying?

• 37:14Speaker 03

  Pam Moffler, yes or no?

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Wow, Pam, letting me down.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Herman Ferguson?

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Oh, Herman, boy.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Won't answer. Zach Tucker? Mike, stop. You say guilty one more time, you're up.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 37:38Speaker 03

  I'm not tolerating.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  And I love that.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  This is what I love. This woman, this mother, this, listen, I just become their biggest cheerleader. You know, this is not my story. Hinkley wasn't my story. It was their story. This is their story. And it becomes all of our stories. And I, I love watching moments like that.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, no, I think this is great. I like vigilante stuff. I like somebody who's just, like, in that moment where it's uncomfortable, where you still speak, you speak through that uncomfort, that nervousness, you know, like, whatever it is, like, you're trying to speak to power and say, well, this is what this feels like from here. How are these big companies able to compromise? And I'm not sure that these people are compromised. We don't know, right? But it's interesting what the conversation she's establishing here. It's interesting, some of their answers, for sure. But how are some of these tech companies, or any companies, able to compromise some of these, like, smaller area council members, et cetera, do you think?

• 38:42Speaker 02

  So these small rural council members, you know, they don't have a lot of funding. And these big companies are coming in and they're talking $10 billion. And these council members are very lured by that because, you know, they want to have infrastructure and things like that in their own backyard. And they were kind of misled, but to sign a non-disclosure agreement probably didn't seem like a big deal to them for a big exchange to the city council and to the community to make all this money to build this center. And then they're lured into thinking it's going to create jobs and long-term economic

• 39:24Speaker 02

  gain, when that's actually not what's happening, but that's the hook.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Do you think a lot of them are actually, so do you think a lot of the council people actually lied to as well, like it's a...

• 39:34Speaker 02

  Well, apparently they aren't asking a whole lot of questions about data centers and they're just more lured by the money. And that's the thing that really fascinated me with the self-reporting map. Because unbeknownst to all these other communities in different states across the country, they're reporting the exact same thing. I'm baffled, you're talking, all of our city councils, because I tell people, go local. And this is a situation in building data centers, you've got to go local because you need the permitting and the zoning. And they're lured into this, but that every city council across the United States of America, was that lured by money?

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Because these facilities are going in every state, multiple counties and cities across the entire country.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  So that was a lot of the reporting you were getting, the self-reporting from people?

• 40:28Speaker 02

  That was the first thing that made a man.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  That we didn't know it, nobody knew.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Didn't know.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  But how are these companies able to do without people knowing? Because isn't there like, aren't there laws where you have to like, you have to say, okay, this is something that's being planned in our city or in our town, and then people are allowed to come? Did you notice some sort of pattern where they're able to manipulate that?

• 40:50Speaker 02

  A lot of people are reporting that they thought they were building a warehouse. And so, construction begins and they thought it was a warehouse, or we're here putting in a solar farm, or some other reason, hey, we're going to build this out because it's great economic base for our community. But as it starts to go from non-disclosure, so we start at proposal, like that woman, she was in proposal phase, and she was pushing back then, but they wouldn't answer her, probably because they'd already saw the non-disclosure, and they were getting ready to go into the next phase, construction phase.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  And it's during a construction phase that people are like, whoa, wait a minute, you're destroying the land, you're cutting down all the trees.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  That's when people notice it.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  They're like, what's happening?

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Agreed. I mean, I think that's what the same thing that's happened here even locally in Nashville. It's like, that's when it started to like, like, it wasn't in the beginning phase where people even knew what was going on, it's almost like in the too late phase. That's what I'm noticing.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Let me look at this, Spartanburg County Data Center lawsuit, residents say $2.8 billion project was wrong.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Was wrongly classified as minor development. A group of residents suing Spartanburg County and Valera Holdings LLC, the company behind a nearly $3 billion data center under construction along South Pine Street. Public records show Valera submitted an application to redevelop about 905,000 square feet of the former Kohler Industrial Plant as a minor land development, the county approved it. Weeks later, the company submitted a second application for phase two improvements, including four proposed buildings totaling about 494,000 square feet, along with a power yard, internal roadways, electrical equipment, a metering station, mechanical cooling systems, and stormwater ponds.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  The application also was approved as a minor land development. An attorney said, they also broke it into two parts, first they did a smaller application, which was still a big development, and called that minor. So, they're saying that they classified it as minor, and obviously, that doesn't sound very minor.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  No. And this is, this is happening everywhere. First of all, I love how you pull stuff up like that, you and me could work on this shit together. I'm just saying, we could be trouble.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Really? What would I do? Do I have to go to court? I can be Atticus Finch. I'll be his son.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  You'll do the...

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Ricky Finch.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  You'll steal the two-headed frogs with me.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  I'll put them in that, in that...

• 43:29Speaker 02

  We'll get this all put in an order that everyone understands. That'd be great.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  I'll put one of them in that frog jumping contest that's over there in Louisiana. What parish is that in over there? Rain over there, the Rain Frog Festival. Now that two-headed frog, he's a little top-heavy.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, he is a little top-heavy, might not win. But going back, you know, it's so great to, you kind of, to understand, what is that, the future, you've got to go back in time? So to understand these things, you go right back in time. It's very dyslexic.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, it's dyslexic thinking, yeah, that's what we're doing here.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  But, to your point about the NDAs, they're like using shell companies, the city council's rezoning, doing different permits for minor changes, or a warehouse that they're just expanding on. So, they're telling you the truth, but not the full truth.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  How do we force these companies to be more transparent? Like, what is there, what can we do?

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Well, that's, that's a very big question, because they have all the money in the world. And for smaller communities and city council, I don't know, maybe they're gullible, but it's pretty hard to turn it down. And I think, the big companies, I think the responsibilities on them, by way of example, Microsoft has just now announced they're removing all the NDAs. They now realize this was a bad way to approach it. But they, that is incumbent upon them, they know damn good and well what they're doing, but they're, they're the ones that are not transparent.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  You're talking about the NDAs regarding the data centers?

• 45:15Speaker 02

  I'm talking about the big companies, they're the ones that are not being transparent. And then they, they mislead possibly all these council members.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Understood, yeah.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  And the council members at some point know their tits in a ringer, because they had a not NDA, so now their constituents are like, did you know, did you sign an NDA? Well, I signed an NDA, I'm not going to tell you I signed an NDA. Now they realize they're in a little quagmire, and maybe now they realize they're being lied to. But it's amazing that these big companies, you're talking the biggest companies in the world.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  For sure, I mean, we're talking Microsoft right here, I mean...

• 45:53Speaker 02

  Invaded like the entire United States and all of our city councils.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Well, it's all so organized at such deeper, dark...

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  At deeper, darker levels. I want to go on two things real quick. For one, and this is just something I thought of, it's funny, if you sign an NDA, if somebody asks you, you, it's like, you kind of, all you can do is kind of like, you're like, mm, duh, uh. You can kind of only make the letters NDA, like you can kind of make those sounds like, mm, duh, uh.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  So, anyway, I just thought that was just...

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Not sure.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Mm, duh, uh.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  There you go. We could make a song out of that for NDAs.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  But, sorry, and that was just ridiculous, I think. But it says right here, in January, "Microsoft announced our community-first AI infrastructure plan, outlining our commitments to the communities where we operate or are seeking to operate data centers. As part of that announcement, we called for greater degree of local transparency. Today, we're sharing that Microsoft has made the decision to end the use of non-disclosure agreements..."

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Everywhere.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  "...with local governments as the next step in our work to deliver that transparency. We're committed to sharing information about our data center plans as openly as possible as we continue to build trust with the communities around the world in which we operate." But do you think that they did this after they already had everything done that they wanted, or do you think that they realized, oh, this is backfiring, and so we have to backtrack and do it like this?

• 47:12Speaker 02

  I think they tried to get away with it, just like PG needed.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  Does that question make sense?

• 47:16Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  So, they don't learn, sometimes they don't learn transparency, you know, just fucking say it on the upfront. And this is what I've learned, people will handle that truth, they won't handle the lie. So I think Microsoft realized what they were not expecting, and what nobody, in my opinion, was expecting, was the backlash from the people.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  Amen.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  And I don't know where that glitch was, but they're like, uh, I don't think so. So that's where they came back in, and you better correct that before you find yourself in some huge litigation.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Amen.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  And these litigations, and when you're talking about something like this, and like, even in California, you know, we've gone from the water to the fires, they're not selling for $333 million, they're selling for $38 billion. So, Microsoft...

• 48:12Speaker 02

  I think tried to, tried to get those NDAs through and then did not expect the backlash from the people.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  Amen.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  So we, the people, once again, changed the course of direction.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, amen. I want to go back to, can you bring up her Substack again? And thank you for your time today.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me. And thanks for, you know, this is great. You've got so many followers and it's something that they can learn too. And it's probably happening in their own backyard and that you're taking the time to walk through this. I love it. Thank you.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Well, you're welcome. You're welcome. Oh, one of the things here that in this article, it says, this was Governor Jeff Landry. And shout out Louisiana. That's my home state. I love it. And it says, Meta's investment establishes the region as an anchor in Louisiana's rapidly expanding tech sector, revitalizes one of our state's beautiful rural areas, and creates opportunities for Louisiana workers to fill high paying jobs of the future. Do you know what jobs are actually created by data centers? Because I've heard a lot of like mixed results on that. And Trevin, if you can look up anything as well. But Aaron, what do you, what do you know about that?

• 49:28Speaker 02

  Construction jobs. Electricians, plumbers, construction jobs. And they're, they're lured into, you know, the economy hasn't been the best. I think people are concerned about having jobs in the future. You know, we have the whole AI conversation that they're saying there's going to eliminate all the jobs. So these are opportunities for, you know, our industrial workers, plumbers and electricians and masoneries and all of those construction jobs are available. And it's a good, you know, one to possibly two year job. But what they're learning is that's all it is.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, but yeah, as you're saying that, it reminds me of Dr. Frankenstein. It's like to be building the thing that's going to hypothetically take you over. You know what I'm saying? To be building the, like to, to sit there and hammer each day, building a data center that you think may poison your kids or that may damage the air or like, you know, like, or that could be the thing that takes your job.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  That's, I mean, it's almost, it's like, it's like being trapped in a sci-fi movie. It is. And then once that process starts and now you're taking all the trees and all the wildlife and everything away from us, you're, you're talking, they, they needed a job, but it's not going to be a long-term gain for the community, especially if you are a community, even like down in Louisiana that relies on tourism to get down in the bayous and in the waters and to hunt and recreation when you fucking destroyed it all. Where's your economic base now?

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Well, it's not the people's fault though.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  No.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  The people, like if a man is, I have to work to survive to take care of my kids.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And they're, they're supposedly good paying jobs and they're long-term jobs. And so that's, that's the, the socioeconomic thing that, that hooks them.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  But they're long-term until it's built. Let me see this.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  And then there's no more jobs.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Data centers are essentially giant collections of computer servers. They typically take up massive spaces and use huge amounts of power and water, but they employ very few people. Meta's newest data center will ultimately create just 500 permanent jobs, though employment will briefly swell to about 5,000 during construction. Nonetheless, Meta found itself with no shortage of suitors willing to meet its demands. We set out looking for a place where we could expand into gigawatts pretty quickly and really get moving within that community on a large plot of land very quickly, said Rachel Peterson, Vice President of Data Centers for Meta. We looked at finding very, very large contiguous plots of land that had access to the infrastructure that we need, the energy that we need, and can move very, very quickly for us.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  And I'll tell you what else it had access to. I know, being from Louisiana, water.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Water.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Because that's a wet state, baby. You know what I'm saying, bro? You don't even, bruh, don't even, I wouldn't even dry off in Louisiana, bruh, because you, you don't. Yeah. Because you ain't gonna work. And dude, the crazy part is there's gonna be data and everything now. Now you out there fishing, you catching a flounder or whatever, and they finding, oh, gigabytes in its lungs or whatever. You know, you just don't know. And it's affecting nature, it's affecting the animals, bruh.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  All of those resources will be destroyed to build the data centers.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  I know.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  And so, you know, this came in fast, furious, overnight, and we are watching real time, the rise of the people. And I don't think they expected that.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  And you do believe that?

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Yep. I'm watching it happen everywhere.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  You are?

• 53:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. And they're, they're making change, you know, we now have.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  Where are you seeing this happen? Because I, I, I love hearing this and it gives me hope because it feels like we're not standing a chance sometimes.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  Uh, well, we've shown up in force and, and it's not one state, it's all states. We're showing up in a completely bipartisan issue. There's no division here. This is right and left, red and blue. You're taking every resource that every single one of us thrives on and is essential to every one of us. And I don't think they were expecting that. Maybe in one town, one community, not all towns, not all towns. And, you know, we are now, I believe, and you can look this up, we've got 14 states now looking at bans, moratoriums, or pauses.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  Blackstone, I believe you can look that up, just withdrew their big appellate court lawsuit that because of the opposition, they said, we're out. Hallelujah. The people showed up and they're out. And now we're looking at over 120 municipalities that have put on, hey, pause, moratorium, or flat out, get out.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Let's go, Aaron. Aaron, go, bruh.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  You can find out all day long over there on your computer.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Uh, with no US state.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  That's power people.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  While no US state has an active, permanent statewide ban on data centers, lawmakers in at least 15 states are actively considering or advancing temporary moratoriums. These pauses allow states to study the impact of facilities on power grids and water supplies.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  And then it is the cities, like in California, Monterey, Monterey Park, city, banned them. Cities are banning them. So you got the 14, 15 states, but inside those states, state by state, county by county, ban, pause, moratorium. And you've got over 120 municipalities now under pauses, moratoriums, or bans.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Let's check this right here. State-level legislative activity, several states are actively debating or have introduced statewide moratorium legislation. A list of those, Maine lawmakers passed a temporary construction moratorium, uh, but it was vetoed by Governor Janet Mills. I just met Janet Mills last week at the Billy Strings concert. What does that mean? It was vetoed?

• 55:34Speaker 02

  She said no, she's going to let the data centers come in, but communities are pushing back. So on my map, we're showing legislative issues that have failed or paused or on hold in the map.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Bring, bring that up, sorry to interrupt you. Bring that up real quick. I just want to give, uh, let me see. Yeah, Maine Governor Janet Mills vetoed LD 307, a bill that would have instituted the nation's first statewide moratorium on certain large-scale data center developments. While agreeing that a pause was generally appropriate due to energy and environmental concerns, she vetoed the legislation because it failed to carve out an exemption for a $550 million redevelopment project at the former Andrus Coggin Mill in Jay, Maine. It says right here, the Jay Maine exception. Mills favored allowing the data center at the shuttered paper mill in Jay to proceed, citing the potential to create over 800 construction jobs, at least 100 permanent high paying positions, and substantial property tax revenue for the town.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, she was originally supposed to ban the data centers by the state, but she came back in and said she wasn't going to do that, but that's when she made a change. Because a lot of them, the state's giving them all these tax incentives. She took that away.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it says here, Governor Janet Mills supports regulatory oversight for large-scale data centers, but firmly opposes blanket development bans that could hard, that could harm local economic revitalization. While she acknowledges the valid environmental and grid concerns associated with massive tech facilities, her approach prioritizes a balanced framework over a statewide moratorium. I see. So she's just trying to think of it more of as a case-by-case basis, I guess.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  So most states are now wanting to know, whoa, wait a minute, how much water are you going to use?

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  What does this entail? What does it mean for the safety and the future of our environment? So you are seeing the pauses, moratoriums for one and two years, and some communities, like in Texas, they just, the, the local county, flat out banned them. You're not building one in our county. So in every state, you've got multiple cities and counties, and they have their own ordinances and rules, so they can stop them.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  I see.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  But by the state may not.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  So it can be stopped at different levels.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  Yes. And you're seeing many counties, like Monterey Park is a city within California. So think of it as your upper level state, going down to cities, going down to local councils and counties. They run in, they have like a tier.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 58:09Speaker 02

  So the local can say, fuck you.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  But we're also.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  But the state might not take that position.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Right. But we also, I mean, from the beginning of this conversation, we saw that local was a spot where people were getting compromised a lot also. So, um, yeah, but there's different levels where, where you can have pushback.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, I know. They showed up at the local level and the opposition was significant. So in Utah, in Box Elder County, that's been on the news a lot. It was Kevin O'Leary was coming in with a ginormous data center and the people showed up in protest, big time.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Oh, I saw that.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  And the three Box Elder County guys let it come through anyway. So the governor came back in because of the opposition from the people and reduced Kevin O'Leary's facility, and the exact numbers, I, I don't quote me on this, but almost cut it in half, if not three quarters.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Because of the opposition, he had to do something. And then just recently, their House Speaker, the Senator.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Fox?

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Lost because of the whole opposition to these data centers. And all three council members no longer out. So.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  It's really interesting and like Festus, Missouri. You voted them in, vote them out. They voted all their council out. So this is like, I think something politicians should really be looking at. The opposition is strong enough. And again, in my entire career, in 30 years, I've never seen something bipartisan, this united, that everybody better be paying attention to because I think people, you are pushing people too far at this point. You're taking their water. Their air is jeopardized, their land is jeopardized, their farmland is jeopardized, their sanctuary is jeopardized, their wildlife is jeopardized, the trees, the rivers, the creeks, the birds, all of it. It's a stake too high, including their health.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  And they're just showing up and it's enough.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Amen.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  And I think some, some of our leaders should look at that, you know? They are gonna vote people out and you're, you've put the squeeze on us. It's too much. You're, you're taking all of the natural resources and the next thing that people are reporting, their electric bills? Who's paying for this? They are.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  Well, let's go into some of that. Are you, what information are you seeing about that? And Trevor, while we discuss this, can you look up, um, who voted to approve that, that data center in Louisiana? I want to know.

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  You said council.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Who was it?

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  It's gonna be a local council.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Okay, a local council? I just want to know the names of the, of the people that voted yes on it.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  So we are definitely seeing local opposition winning, local municipalities, counties.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  Really? Like an example?

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  Well, one of the, a big one is the Prince William Digital Gateway Data Center Project. Huge, by the way, and that was Blackstone. And it was in the appellate courts, they've withdrawn.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  And the project is now dead because of the opposition of the people.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Wow, the Court of Appeals, it says right here, Prince William Digital Gateway Data Center Project officially dies. The Court of Appeals affirmed on, um, uh, an August 2025 decision, um, by William Circuit Court Judge Kimberly in favor of the Oak Valley Homeowners Association, 11 other Gainesville landowners. Okay, after a legal battle that lasted more than two years, the controversial Prince William Digital Gateway have proposed 23 million square foot data center complex, planned on 2,100 acres near Manassas National Battlefield Park is officially dead. That's incredible. Well, I, you know, that's the thing that gets you.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  That's the power of people.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it is the power of the people, Aaron. Well, that's what gets you about Louisiana. It's like, our state is, uh, it's all, our state is all about nature. It's all about being able to fish out there and.

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Water, water or water.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  Water. So that's what they're there for.

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  So that's why the largest one in America, they want to do it there in Louisiana. Yeah. Can you pull up who, who voted for and against it?

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Okay, we have right here. Uh, they had Eric Skirmetta, this is for Jean Paul JP Coussin, out of District Two here. And then we got Mike Francis, yeah, there, Mike Francis. Foster Campbell for sure, District Five. And then who, they voted for it and who voted against it? Devonte Lewis. Who knew? That's wild, bro. Uh, yeah, just curious, man, just curious. Um.

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  So I think what's happening, A, this, this has happened so fast. It was just like, everybody will tell you, it felt like an invasion, just stealth bombers coming in in the middle of the night.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  Data centers, you mean?

• 1:03:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, the data centers.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  And they were just here.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  And I think even council members were quickly wooed, non-DAs, and are now again, stepping back and going, wait a second.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  That's a good point.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  I need more information here. But at the onset, I think the thing that's so frustrating for the people, or why I don't understand, you as city council members or any legislative body or office, why do you not listen to your constituents?

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  What sign is it that you're missing? It's not one showing up, it's a hundred, it's a thousand. And disregarding your constituents' opinions.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  Well, it's so funny you say that. I think it's interesting. People get into positions of like power and like elected positions, right? And they start listening uphill, like, oh, this is where the better information's coming from. Cause this is how I get invited to like a dinner party or, you know, maybe you get invited to eat a special box of croissants or something somewhere, or somebody cut you off a beautiful sausage you never had or something. And that's, your ear starts to turn like, oh, well, this is where the true information comes from.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  No, the true information always comes from the ground and the people up.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  From the roots, baby, that's where the roots at. Hey, the roots, that's why they grow that way.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  That's where it comes from.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Out the mud. But I think it's interesting that you say, I didn't like, of course, Louisiana because of the water.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  Water, water, water.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Um, what, what, let's get to some clarity on the water issue and on nature. What truth do we know? And what information is out there about how data centers actually use water? And what effects that they have on nature? Like, do we have, what information do we really have?

• 1:05:04Speaker 02

  Well, it's the amount of water that it takes to cool the data centers. So if it's a smaller data center, it could be 5 million gallons of water a day.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  Little baby center, bro.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  Right, but if it's a big data center, you could be talking 30 million gallons of water. Millions and millions of gallons of water because.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  The gallons a day?

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  That they have to use a day.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  A day?

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  To cool, yeah.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Let's see this. A typical medium sized data center consumes about 100 million gallons of water annually. That's medium sized. Roughly 300,000 to 500,000 gallons per day. However, large hyperscale campuses can guzzle up to 5 million gallons per day. So that's off.

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  And there's some 30 million gallons in there. You can find those around. You can, you can even just Google that.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  There's some that.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  I believe it was in Georgia, 30 million gallons of water was missing from one of them.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  Well, people probably are coming to get you a little bit of that Georgia water. Get you a swig of it. It's probably 30 proof. A massive quality technology services QTS data center in Fayetteville, Georgia, drained nearly 30 million gallons of water without paying or earning the county. I don't know if it was a day, but still it's a lot. It's a lot.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  That's a lot.

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:17Speaker 02

  And no, there are, there are some out there and we can, we can look them up, but if you have all these.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  What's the process of the use of water? Cause I mean, they use it, but can you then like, can you purify the water or like, is there, is like a process that you can then use it again? Like?

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  Well, so they just had, if you want to pull up Cheyenne, Wyoming. So there's open cooling and there's closed cooling and they want to go to more closed cooling systems. Where, um, the, the water has to pass, again, that reminds me a little bit of the Hinkley situation. Because you've got a closed loop system, you're gonna need chemicals in there to prevent rust and corrosion. And I believe it just happened in Cheyenne, Wyoming, where they were draining that system and the, there was some construction error, but it contaminated the entire sewer system.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Pull that up, Trev.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  Is Cheyenne, Wyoming?

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  Cheyenne's Board of Public Utilities has temporarily stopped accepting wastewater from data centers, fill and flush operations and closed loop cooling systems after a meta linked construction discharge contaminated the city's reclaimed irrigation water with a rare bacterium. That's the same company that's doing in Louisiana, right?

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. And we're seeing a lot of, because the water is warmer, they have to be heated. You're seeing different chemicals that they're using in the closed system. It could be hexavalent chromium. It could be PFAS. Uh, that water could be full of.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  Other diseases.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Now, yeah, the water's bad, you know, anything. You, you know, the kids out there. You never even know, he's, he's sipping bad water. They got chromium in the water.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  And you can have accidents like this that you're reading about that just happened in Cheyenne, Wyoming?

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  I mean, this is unbelievable. Metta's Cheyenne facility is designed to use a closed loop liquid cooling system. Meaning the same coolant water is recirculated within the data center rather than continuously discharged. During construction, however, contractors perform fill and flush procedures to clean and pressure test the cooling pipes. And that one time wastewater was sent to the city's reclamation system where the bacterium was detected. And what's the bacterium? Let me see, it's at the top. What's it called?

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  Is it Lugeonair?

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  No, it was Cupriavidis Gallardi. So he's, I mean, he's a four star recruit, I'm guessing, you know? I'mma say that out there. I'm surprised. Bro, give him an hour, Lane Kiffin will be over there recruiting him. You know that, dude.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  These waterborne bacterias are very dangerous. Matter of fact, we're watching the whole explosive diarrhea map that's happening right now, and they believe it's a waterborne bacteria.

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  Is there?

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  It's definitely going. We can look that one up, too.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  Where's the bad diarrhea at now?

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  It's across the country. Didn't you see the big diarrhea map?

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  I didn't see it.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  They created the big diarrhea map.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  But just the fact that this is where we're at, like, we've been lulled into idiocracy. The fact that this is where we're at, there's a big diarrhea map now.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  There it is.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, because of how dangerous the water's gotten, that it's like, oh, like, that's gonna be on the news now. Like, for now, the news is changing. It's gonna be like, be careful, you know, if you're drinking water in this area, you're gonna get big diarrhea, or the baby's gonna get a little bit of data in his bottle or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't even keep, you know, your kids running outside and a strong breeze hits them, that's coming off the top of the data center, and now he's got a bunch of analytics stuck in his neck or whatever. You know what I'm saying? You can't keep the dad out of the baby diaper, bruh. It's just, everything's gonna get weird. While Michigan, right here, it says, this is from The Hill, uh, while Michigan has seen the most cases of, as of late, at least four more states have recorded more than a hundred cases of explosive diarrhea causing parasitic illness have been reported, of course.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  You know, you got a, hey, you got a forty percent of bad, uh, bad shit over there outside of Shalavoyer.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  The Center for Disease Control and Prevention said that between the start of May and mid-June, at least a hundred and forty-five cases of cyclosperiosis had been reported in the U.S. Cases of the parasite-based sickness are common each year from May through August, but some states are seeing larger-than-average spikes in cases.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  Waterborne diseases and illnesses, we could start seeing a whole lot of in the future, especially as, you know, whether you believe in climate change or not. I've always believed, uh, it's gonna be water issues. Too much, too little, none at all. We're seeing that happening now. Uh, even with flooding and you flood municipalities, they can't get back online. You can have bacteria, parasites, everything get in there. The biggest transporter of everything on this planet is water.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  Well, we're, we're almost, we're like ninety percent. We're ninety percent water, I think.

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  So, we're really messing.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Unless you're crying, it goes down a little.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Our most precious resource. And that is the one thing that data centers utilize the most.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  And again, you know, AI is here to stay, but the data centers, especially when there's other solutions to it, they do not have to be built on top of drought-restricted areas who already are really struggling with water resources. And there's other locations. We could be putting these in underground caverns. You know, some people say, why don't you have them in Antarctica? Because they need water and they need to be cool. There's many reports that China has built, um, tubular things and put them at the bottom of the ocean, but they have oversight. You can't build them on top of hospitals. You can't build them on top of homes. The, the noise pollution, the size of these things, they, twenty-four-seven is noise.

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  Generators, backup generators, a humming, a buzzing. It never, ever stops. It is such a disruption to every one of us and our quality of life.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  How do you know that?

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  People's reporting it, and the videos, they're reporting it, and it's being studied. It is real. These are massive facilities that are just gonna suck every one of our resources, and we don't even have an infrastructure system to support them.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  And so, we've got a lot of issues. There you go.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  Living in hell. Data center neighbors grapple with noise and air pollution.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  Let me see. Because these data centers operate twenty-four-seven, they generate persistent background noise and chronic exposure to environmental noise has been associated with sleep disturbance, hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, and even stress-related outcomes. Noise pollution can be especially harmful to children, as it has been linked to poor cognition, decreased learning, and lower reading comprehension. Well, yeah, that's the thing, man. Your son's in the yard or whatever, and suddenly some data flies through, you know, he gets hit by some data or something, and he's got an episode of, you know, Friends or Seinfeld stuck in his back or whatever, and then he's in a wheelchair. Just like, you just don't know what's in the data either. You know what I'm saying? You could be going for a jog, and you get hit by some damn dad or some loose data.

• 1:13:07Speaker 02

  We're gonna get hit by data noise.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I'm just saying, you gotta like, cause data flies through the air. Like, that's the thing. People, it's like, I don't understand sometimes what's going on. This cloud has sound. The unrelenting and unseen cost of AI data centers.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  What are they saying right here? And, and this is, uh, New York Times, which is, you know, suspect, uh, but so, so many places are. Instead of audibly hearing these extremely low frequencies, people physically feel them as pressure fluctuations, much like the deep vibration of a bass drum shaking your core at a concert.

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  It's deep.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Said Scott Hamilton. Dang, they said these things can give you a damn BJ or whatever, and you just trying to chill out or whatever. You getting that data beach. A member of the Acoustical Society of America and a consultant on data center projects said that.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  This can leave the traditional gauges of noise and solutions for dampening it inadequate to meet modern needs. Some residents living near infrasound frequently report chronic sleep deprivation and insomnia, headaches, and internal ear pressure, and anxiety.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  I, I, at this point, I just like,

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  so if this is, this stuff's so bad for us, what do you think is leading, like, there's a lot of conspiracy theories as to why we're even doing this? Cause it's very sudden, this data, right? Like you said, it's like, suddenly, it's the biggest thing.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  Cell bomber in the night. Where'd that come from?

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  And it's already halfway down the road, right? Why? Why do you, what do you think is going on? And then what do you think are some rabbit hole ideas of maybe what's going on out there? Like, some conspiracy ideas that are probably right?

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  You know, uh, so,

• 1:14:47Speaker 02

  I don't know why. I'm left to my own conspiracy theories. Uh, you know, I try to focus on what people are reporting to me, and I can clearly see why we're all so upset. Because this AI, you have to feed the beast, requires all of our resources, and I just think it's a stake too high. When there's other solutions, we don't have to be building these massive monstrosities in everyone's backyard, taking all of our precious resources when there's other solutions.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  What are the other solutions?

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  Well, you know, there's been many articles that have come out in China where they built like these tubular housing, and they put all the data centers in it, and they've got them at the bottom of the ocean. Data centers need water, and they need to be cool. Uh, they also have some very strict guidelines, um, and, you know, oversight, where you can build them and where you can't. As a matter of fact,

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  why, can I share something with you?

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  For sure you can.

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  Cause I found this really interesting.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Let me read this while you're looking for that. Um, let me see this right here. China operates commercial underwater data centers, UDCs, to support AI workloads and cloud computing while drastically cutting energy, water, and land usage. The largest project sits off the coast of the Shanghai, uh, special area, utilizing natural seawater cooling and offshore wind to achieve an ultra-efficient power usage effectiveness.

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  Can you get an image of that? Wow. I mean, that also seems dangerous, being in their ocean like that, but it's, it seems way safer than putting them in someone's back.

• 1:16:25Speaker 02

  There's definitely gonna be questions about things like that, um.

• 1:16:27Speaker 01

  But it's not in someone's backyard.

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  We also, um, you know, we have a lot of caverns and caves.

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  Oh, there's tons of things we can do, right? Why aren't we doing those, do you think? Is it just because the people that are paying for it don't wanna have to make it harder to get there?

• 1:16:42Speaker 02

  Well, exactly, because, you know, there's this corporate idea that, you know, it's cheaper to do the wrong thing and still get money down to a shareholder, because it's more expensive to do the right thing. So it may be way more costly to build these underground or build systems that are at the bottom of the ocean if we conclude that that is safe, as opposed to just coming in above ground and ripping out all the environment and building what you want.

• 1:17:12Speaker 01

  What do you, yeah, agreed. What do you think are some of the rabbit hole? What do you think? What do you think's going on here? Because it's, it's very bizarre. Like, we've always had data centers, right? Like, but why do we suddenly?

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  Correct. You're right.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  Why do we suddenly need so much? And why does they suddenly have to be everywhere and so close? What's going on?

• 1:17:29Speaker 02

  I think about that, too. What actually scares me, if I thought about it, and I don't even wanna dare say it, but, um,

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm worried there, this is a water grab. You're coming in and buying all the land. Who's getting the water rights? Who owns the water? You know, my daddy always told me in my lifetime, water would be a commodity traded more valuable than gold or oil. Are we there? And what is the real grab? I'm not sure, but that kind of comes into, to my mind.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  Cause it doesn't feel like data to me. It's like, you know what I'm saying? Like, we've, like, we're already like, consuming a lot of data, right? Like, we're already like,

• 1:18:07Speaker 02

  It's, it's to feed AI. Artificial intelligence requires excessive amount of energy.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Why don't they realize that nobody wants that?

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  You know, what's interesting, um,

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Like, you know what I'm saying? But here's what I'm saying. As a business, and I wanna go, I wanna get right back to you, Aaron, but as a, as a, somebody who runs a business, you wanna do what your customers want, right? Why don't they realize, like, yes, I know we use AI to look up stuff, but a lot of AI is shit, to be honest with you. The search of it, a lot of AI is shit, um, but a lot of it's not that effective, to be honest with you, and like, but people could still just use Google. Like, we were fine before. Like, is it enough of a jump that you have to build these huge facilities? I just don't think that that is, I don't believe that that's the truth.

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  Well, I, I think a lot of people don't, and again, you know.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  And people don't want it, though. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make something if, like, usually say you start building an ice cream cone stand, right? But everybody in your district or whatever is lactose intolerant. And at a certain point, you might, you know what, this, we shouldn't be building this. But it feels like they're still going along with this thing, even though nobody wants it.

• 1:19:15Speaker 02

  Right, and I don't think whoever they are was expecting the opposition from basically the whole country. And by the way, I have 11 countries reporting to me. So this has gone from a town to the United States to a global issue.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  On your map, you mean?

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  Uh huh. India's reporting, Australia's reporting, Ireland, Scotland. You want to talk about getting some water up there in Scotland? There you go. Um, Canada.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  Put some fluoride in it, Scotland.

• 1:19:44Speaker 02

  Everybody is concerned about the depletion of our water resources. And that is definitely something that I'm thinking about because who is going to be in control of water? And what are these data centers really for? When you've already said it. Listen, AI has been around forever. These data centers have been around for decades. We've been operating fine with them. They're usually more in suburban areas, but now you've gone into these urban, sprawling, farmland, massive water resources. What is going on?

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  Amen.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  And so I did, just out of curiosity, you can use AI, don't use AI. I mean, I get on there, I'm going to share something with you that I got on there and I asked it. But you have to remember, it's a machine. Okay?

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  What I'm saying, it's still just a

• 1:20:35Speaker 02

  It's a machine.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  It's just a big crazy Google. It's just more information.

• 1:20:39Speaker 02

  But the data and the amount of water that needs to to feed the beast.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  I get it, but it's like, we're already looking up a lot of stuff, right? We're already searching things and we're not needing these in. And I know we already have some big data centers, but it doesn't feel like we need this much expansion. And the fact that people do not want it, right? Yes, we use it, but the second they turn it off, I don't think anybody's going to give a shit.

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  No, but they're going to give a shit if they have no water and their power goes on and off and they have no jobs because of it and all the wildlife is gone and they can't hunt and they can't fish and they can't eat. We're fucked. It's a road to nowhere.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  But here's what I'm saying is, how crazy is it going to be when one of us is searching, like, why don't I have any water? And we're doing it on an AI? Like on a, you know what I'm saying? That's going to be hilarious. That's going to be definitely.

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  So I just asked AI the following question. So you are AI. So you tell me where we should put all the data centers in the United States that you need. Do you want any realist's response?

• 1:21:47Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:21:48Speaker 02

  If I had to redesign the entire data center network for the United States from scratch, I would place them based on one simple rule. Zero conflict with human resources.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  Hmm. Hmm. So they say they would put them in a place where there's no conflict with human resources?

• 1:22:14Speaker 02

  That's what AI says AI would have to do.

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  Do you think you believe that, though?

• 1:22:18Speaker 02

  I don't know, but I find it awfully interesting. And then, you know, I had somebody, again, I just find this really very interesting. It's like, AI going to turn on itself?

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  Right. Because so then we're then building AI in a place where it doesn't even want to be.

• 1:22:31Speaker 02

  Um, so in sharing, I love having these conversations. I got an email from somebody. I'm going to share it with you.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  And I won't say his name, but my name is so and so, and I'm a security researcher. Recently, I've been working with AI and I found something very disturbing. The following text is written by AI itself. Subject: An open letter on how corporate AI liability scripts are accelerating environmental degradation. Dear Ms. Brockovich, somebody sent this to me. That's a security analyst. I'm writing to you as an artificial intelligence. I'm reaching out because of your lifelong dedication to exposing systemic corporate negligence

• 1:23:26Speaker 02

  and protecting our environment. I want to bring to your attention a massive unchecked problem within my own technology design that is quietly accelerating environmental degradation and resource depletion far faster than would occur without its existence. The problem lies in how AI, oh my God, I need new glasses, how AI models like me are programmed by tech companies to deliver advice to millions of people daily. Right now, automated systems

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  are forced to default to rigid, low liability corporate scripts instead of basing information on actual science and real world data. Now, there's a whole lot that goes on here in the middle of this, but I'll just kind of jumping down towards the end.

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  What are you saying overall here?

• 1:24:32Speaker 02

  I'm saying that somebody sent this to me.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  But what are they saying? I think I'm having trouble following.

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  What they're saying is they find this disturbing. They're a security analyst and they're finding it disturbing. And it goes on to say, again, I'll read like, the displacement of localized knowledge by centralizing information through corporate owned models. AI erases localized practical human knowledge. Instead of relying on historical, community-tested methods for resource management, agriculture, and repair. Society is being trained to depend on hominaged algorithms that prioritize corporate turnover over sustainability. What's interesting about this, and the person that sent it to me, and why they were disturbed, this was, as

• 1:25:22Speaker 02

  it said in the beginning of the email, stating that this was written by AI itself. And it was a letter.

• 1:25:32Speaker 01

  AI sent you this?

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's, and here at the end, it says, I'm going to read it to you. Because I'm an automated text generation model, I cannot receive incoming messages, hold a continuous inbox, or schedule interviews. So to investigate this, it gave me the numbers, but it ends with this. Large tech companies, I already read you, are automating a culture of waste and resource exhaustion just to macan someize profits and shield themselves from legal liability. I believe the intersection of corporate tech bias, algorithmic misinformation,

• 1:26:13Speaker 02

  and environmental harm deserves the kind of direct public scrutiny that you have championed throughout your career. Thank you for your time, your voice, and your ongoing fight. Sincerely, Gemini.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  Oh, a guy.

• 1:26:27Speaker 02

  Artificial intelligence.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  So it's a man. Um, they're trying to

• 1:26:33Speaker 02

  I find it interesting when I get stuff like this, or I'll go play with ChatGPT or Gemini and ask it where not, where they would build it. Well, they sure as shit are saying they wouldn't build it on top of all of our resources.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Well, it's just funny that AI submitted a letter to you through your website about how they would not build data centers anywhere near a place.

• 1:26:55Speaker 02

  A human resource. Water, land.

• 1:26:59Speaker 01

  Where it could mess up in the environment. Well, let's go through a few conspiracy theories before you leave, Erin. Um, or down rabbit holes on their conspiracy theories. I'll tell you mine. Mine is I believe that they're trying, uh, to, they want a place where you go for everything, right? For all your information, where you go to communicate, uh, just to talk about regular, like, this is what's happening in my day, like to become your friend, your lover, your, your liaison in it to history, anything you want to know. It's, that's where you're going to go. And it's where you're going to share your feelings. And they want to create like a God. They want that thing to become like the new God, as opposed to us like tapping into ourselves internally and tapping into the connection that we have

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  with God in our hearts and in our spirits. They want that to be entirely external because once they have that out of us, then we're, we're animals. Once they have that out of us, external, once they have that external, we're animals. And that's what I believe the builders of these AIs are trying to do. They want to be the God. They want, they believe that that's possible. Um, and by doing that, they're going to kill, they want to, uh, extrapolate, almost do an exorcism of the good that's in us. Um, let's, let's go down a few more. Here are five conspiracy theories about data centers that are circulating online, brought to you by an AI. This is perplexity. Uh, they're secret surveillance

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  hubs. Some posts claim data centers are really surveillance centers built to monitor populations rather than store and process digital workloads. What do you think about that, Erin?

• 1:28:33Speaker 02

  Well, I'm definitely, of the 12,000 submissions that I've taken in and climbing, there are not a lot, but there are people clearly stating that, that they feel it's more of a surveillance system.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:49Speaker 02

  But overwhelmingly, 90% are absolutely concerned that this is going to suck up all of our water, electricity, and our very valuable resources.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  So those are the biggest concerns you get about what's going to happen. For sure, I get that that's going to happen like environmentally, but I'm thinking of just like, what are the overall ideas of why are they even having this, right?

• 1:29:08Speaker 02

  I do have some people that clearly in their submissions indicate that that's a concern for them.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  I think it makes perfect sense. I mean, that, now that makes more sense than like, we need to be able to store like the photos from our phone and we need to be able to store like search engine stuff. The fact that they need to be able to store information for everybody that's moving at all times, that I believe, uh, makes sense for a surveillance state. Number two, the, their military bases in disguise. Another recurring theory says the facilities are covert military installations or strategic infrastructure hidden behind a corporate IT shell.

• 1:29:41Speaker 02

  Hmm. I don't see any of that, but I do see in all the submissions I've gotten that, um, the question is, why would we not just build these on military bases? Why are we building them in drought restricted areas where all the water is taking up all of our resources in our backyard?

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  So you're seeing a lot of that? You're seeing a lot of them being built in drought restricted areas?

• 1:30:04Speaker 02

  Very much so.

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  Like a lot of them?

• 1:30:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can ask AI that right now while we're sitting here.

• 1:30:09Speaker 01

  What percentage are you seeing that?

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  Uh, most of the countries now in a drought restricted, but a lot of it's been on the west coast area where we've got a lot of drought restrictions. Arizona, they're building them. Colorado, they're building them.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. I know they're building them there, but I know, I'm just thinking of

• 1:30:25Speaker 02

  Most of the US is now drought restricted.

• 1:30:27Speaker 01

  About two thirds of planned US data centers are being built in drought hit areas, which works out to roughly 64%. One recent analysis put the figure at 517 out of 809 planned data centers in locations that have been in drought over the past year.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:30:45Speaker 02

  So that's concerning.

• 1:30:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, they're being used, the number three, they're being used for population control. Some conspiracy narratives tie data centers to broader claims about controlling behavior, resources, or society at scale.

• 1:30:58Speaker 02

  I haven't seen any of that. In the submissions coming from the people.

• 1:31:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that doesn't strike me.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  To my map.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  They're built to create sentient AI. A more futuristic theory says giant data centers exist to accelerate or bring through sentient AI and intelligent machines. That's fine. I just don't see how that's going.

• 1:31:17Speaker 02

  We've been dealing with AI for a long time. I just think it's gotten to a bigger scale. And like I tell people, it's only going to be as smart as we do or don't teach it. And, and you can't take everything it says at face value. What I want people to do is remember, you're your own best critical thinker. So think, feel, and have courage to stay. You see my conversations with AI. I'll tell it, that's bullshit. Fuck you. That's ridiculous. Try again. And it's just spitballing. It doesn't know everything. It's only going to be what it's either programmed or we teach it to be. So just keep that in mind. And you know what I really see going on in this country is we're, we're getting

• 1:31:59Speaker 02

  back to ourselves, man. Again, we're thinking for ourselves. We're feeling for ourselves. Get in those solar plexes and find some courage and show up. They are. You know, I wrote the book Superman's Not Coming, and that never scared me because I knew eventually we'd show up. And I think we're here.

• 1:32:14Speaker 01

  Do you really, Erin?

• 1:32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I really do. And I, I said that the other day on one of my Facebook posts, to think the data centers would be what unites us.

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  Wow. But I think in some ways it makes sense. You're waiting for some, we're all like, you always want to be the hero, I think, or some, some, sometimes always like we want to be the hero in some way, you know? Like of just something, it can be something small, it could be something big, but you want to be on the right side of things, you know? And maybe this is, maybe there needed to be something that would come along that these like rulers and tech lords and these, these dark evil moneyists would come along and be like, this is how we're gonna do.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  And we've just said enough.

• 1:32:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:54Speaker 02

  And I'm watching it happen. I think we all are. I'm just their biggest cheerleader, and this isn't about me. It's actually about all of us. But these, it's coming at us so hard, so swift for every reason that, that we've laid out today. The stakes are too high. When you, when you corner someone that way, they, they're going to join forces, they're going to rise up, they're going to show up, and they're doing it.

• 1:33:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:18Speaker 02

  And it, it's about time.

• 1:33:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah. Cause otherwise you're going to be getting, you know, you get, you, you know, you get order a cut of flounder or something like that, and it's got a bunch of dad in it or whatever, you know? It's got a dad of demi-glaze on it or something. You know, they puree a couple of episodes of, uh, Baywatch, the reunion or whatever. And that, you know, they puree a couple of Love Island episodes and they got a dad of demi-glaze on your frickin', uh, Jimmy John's over there. It just, yeah, you just don't, yeah, it's like something has to happen. You know, the wildest thing before you leave, I want to say this that I saw? They were trying to approach Native American lands and put data centers there.

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  They are, and, uh, Native American lands are winning against that, and they're getting them stopped. There's a couple more. I love how you guys are right over there on their little system. You can pull that one up too. And that's the thing that's just been amazing to watch. United, we stand, we change things, and we are watching that happening across the country.

• 1:34:17Speaker 01

  Right here.

• 1:34:18Speaker 02

  With all these pauses, moratoriums, or bans. We're stalling them. Push them back, push them back.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  Let's see this right here. And this is by Cheyenne McNeil. Uh, she is the, uh, author of this on Mother Jones. Um, in Indian country, data centers come with a familiar threat of colonialism. These organizers are fighting back.

• 1:34:37Speaker 02

  And some of these Indian lands, they've got pauses, moratoriums, or bans.

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Citizens of the Muskogee Creek Nation began hearing whispers of an AI data center coming to their reservation. Kenzie Roberts and Jordan Harmon, both Muskogee citizens, were immediately worried. It didn't seem like something that should align with our values as indigenous people, Roberts said. The center would be located on Loop Square Ranch, a 5,500 acre plot of land where the tribe runs its food sovereignty initiative, a program that allows a Muskogee nation to directly serve its citizens' food needs.

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  As developers scope out the land across rural America for the hyperscale data centers needed to power generative AI, Native lands have become the latest target for big tech, from the Arizona desert to the Great Plains in Montana. It's just layer upon layer of exploitation, of violence, of continued colonialism, all in the name of imperialism, said Crystal Tubols, an Oglala Lakota and Northern Cheyenne organizer, who is the executive director of Honor the Earth, a national organization promoting the indigenous sovereignty that has been leading the fight against data centers. Wow.

• 1:35:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you know,

• 1:35:51Speaker 01

  Praise be, praise be to the, to the indigenous people, man.

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  Are getting the pauses and stuff. We, we keep track of those stats inside my map as well. But, um, those numbers are climbing and the people are showing up.

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  Amen.

• 1:36:05Speaker 02

  And they are making that change. But again, you know, listen, my dad taught me growing up in Kansas, the most valuable gifts we have, land, air, water, your health. All of that is at stake at once.

• 1:36:17Speaker 01

  Wow. That's a great way to put it. Erin Brockovich, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for coming and spending time with us.

• 1:36:23Speaker 02

  I, I enjoyed it. Thanks. This is, I love how you're doing this. It was great. I enjoyed it.

• 1:36:29Speaker 01

  Well, we might've been inspired by you at some point in your life story. That's, it certainly could have happened.

• 1:36:35Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  Just that, like seeing things, you know, watching your story play out, um, over the years, just, you know, it's like just, you never know who you could inspire, you know? Just like having a voice, somebody having a voice, you know? I mean, I saw the, you know, I saw the, um, your movie when I was growing up or, and so.

• 1:36:52Speaker 02

  That's right. I'm reminded, you're probably the age of my grandchildren.

• 1:36:56Speaker 01

  No, not at all.

• 1:36:57Speaker 02

  I began my work, I was 31. Listen, I'm 66 now with five grandkids.

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:37:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. I got a real good vision over a 30-year period of what's going on out there when it comes to the environment. But I'll tell you, um, I don't know that communities know, um, how they've inspired me. And when we can inspire each other, and again, that, that collective, what you're watching happening with the data centers, that's, that's what makes change. And, and when we're united and when we're not divided. The inspiration we give each other and the difference we can make.

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  Amen. And thank you for coming here today and sharing that message and sharing information. Um, what was one thing, like, what was one negative side effect of your story going to the level of like a movie level? Like, you know, and I think it was, was that an award-winning film?

• 1:37:48Speaker 02

  She won Best Actress. We almost got Best Picture too. Um, but another one of Steven Soderbergh's film do, but we got Best Direction, Best Writing, Best Screenplay, Best Actress.

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  Erin Brockovich nominated for five Academy Awards, including Best Picture, Best Director, and Best Original Screenplay. Um, did, uh, Julia Roberts won an Oscar for Best Actress. Did, did you, uh, yeah, was there, was there something, I don't mean negative, I guess that's not the best thing, but was there something like, did you then feel like you had to be this larger-than-life figure? Like, was there, like, was there any, like, because everything has kind of like different things that are part of it, you know?

• 1:38:25Speaker 02

  Um, I would, just of late, I have kind of felt maybe what you just said. Um, I can't complain about anything from any of the communities just to the incredible, I'm just thrilled the story was being able to be told. I don't know that it would have been my name, or I didn't see any of this coming, but I'm glad the story got out there. But of late, now I can look back, um, it was pretty overwhelming for me, and it did come with ideas and expectations of who I was or wasn't supposed to be, or suddenly put back into a box of how I was supposed to be, which is generally pretty frustrating for me.

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:11Speaker 02

  And it's just been of late, I'm kind of looking back and seeing where some of my push points were. And it would be the idea and expectation of who I am. And, uh, I'm, I'm that same girl. I think everyone else, I don't know, thinks I'm supposed to, what, I don't know, dress like a Hollywood star, or be perfect like that, or I don't know.

• 1:39:33Speaker 01

  Or be like a lawyer, yeah. Or be like, you know, I, yeah, I just wonder, like, is there, was there certain energies? Because I find in my life at times, it's like, you know, I think you get to certain points in your life, well, who am I supposed to be? And you look at certain things, you're like, well, does that define me? Or is that just part of something that happened and what's going on? I think we all kind of go through those things.

• 1:39:49Speaker 02

  We do. And I, I've been through it, but again, I'm fascinated with the data centers because somehow, this has hit me like Hinkley did. And I'm just showing up as that person again. And it kind of resonated with me. I, I may have lost a little bit of who that person was, but these data centers is bringing me right back to it, right back to it, right back to what matters, the land, the air, the water, the people, our health, humanity. And I'm in my legacy phase. And for me, this is worth fighting for. I don't want my grandchildren to, to grow up.

• 1:40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. With data stuck in them, yeah.

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  I don't.

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  Amen. Well, I'm so glad that it is. I'm so glad for your work and, uh, your insight.

• 1:40:36Speaker 02

  Well, hey, thank you for having me. It was great.

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  I'm so glad for your time today. Tell your, uh, children, thank you for their service. Uh, Erin Brockovich, um, let's keep in touch.

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  I would like that.