Driving the Valkyrie was Crazy! Ferrari and GM Partnering? Lamborghini Says NO to EV

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Doug DeMuro?

  Hello and welcome to this car pod.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  I'm Kenan.

• 0:08Doug DeMuro?

  I'm Felipe. And let's get into it, the news, starting with Gene Jennings. Gene Jennings passed away a couple of days ago. Gene Jennings had enormous roles at auto magazines throughout the 1980s, 90s, and specifically at Automobile Magazine, where she was the editor in chief for many years. And she was like a legend in the automotive journalism space. And so everybody's kind of paying tribute to her. I have a Gene Jennings story that I would like to share.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 0:35Doug DeMuro?

  I, Gene Jennings is responsible for a lot of the beginnings of my illustrious career. In 2009, I car spotted, that was like my thing.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  2009 and 2024.

• 0:47Doug DeMuro?

  And to this day, but I sent a letter to Automobile Magazine in 2009, telling them, hey, I do this car spotting thing. Maybe this is something you want to write an article about. And I only sent it to Automobile because Gene Jennings had the foresight of making Automobile more of a lifestyle mag than like a instrumented test specific, you know, things magazine, which obviously now they're all going in that direction. And she called me. She, I was 21 and she called me. And I still remember, for some reason, I was in New York City. I was in Central Park and it was the winter and I got her call and she was like, yeah, this sounds fun and we'll send a writer and a photographer to cover it and we'll do an article about it. And I was like, oh my God, I'm going to be in Automobile. It was the coolest thing in the world.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very cool.

• 1:32Doug DeMuro?

  I mean, magazines are not as big of a deal now, but they really were. I mean, that was the cool, for a 21 year old kid who grew up reading every car magazine, coolest thing in the world. And I'm talking to Gene Jennings, right? So they did. And I was featured in the July 2009 issue of Automobile Magazine for car spotting. And in fact, it was the cover, it was one of the cover stories.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:52Doug DeMuro?

  And I have like 50 copies of it still. And there's pictures of me in the magazine and like, you know, driving around Atlanta, taking pictures of Lamborghinis. So. That magazine was purchased by a guy who then later kind of became my mentor and started me off in car journalism. And I kind of can trace all that back to the that article. Years later, I bumped into Jean Jennings Detroit Auto Show. And I said to her, hey, I don't know if you remember me, but this was the then I told her the story and she didn't remember it was years before, but she was like, Oh, I'm so glad we did that. And that's so wonderful. She was very nice to me. And so I only met her twice. But she had a huge direct relationship on, you know, where I am today and the beginnings of my career.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  That's such a cool butterfly effect story. That's really neat. Yeah.

• 2:35Doug DeMuro?

  Right. Right. Like, it's like, minor interactions, but like, a pretty big, actual.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Here we are.

• 2:41Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, here we are.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  How cool.

• 2:43Doug DeMuro?

  Jean Jennings.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  I think in a lot of ways, for a lot of people of our generation, she created the like, car journalist role that I think we all, at some point growing up, wanted to be, we want to be that because of Jean Jennings.

• 2:54Doug DeMuro?

  And she was insane. And one of the cool, I mean, in a great way, because Automobile Magazine used to do these cool tests. I'll never forget when she did coast to coast in a Bugatti Veyron. That was the, that was the, the front cover of the magazine. Well, the coast turned out to be the east coast of Florida to the west coast. And she did it with Hurley Haywood, I think, if I remember, I can't, I can't, this is years ago. But they would do weird things like that. And as a result, you know, of the four magazines, Road and Track, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, and then Automobile, I always preferred Automobile. I thought they just had the coolest content, the coolest like, lifestyle, weird storytelling kind of stuff. And they employed Ezra Dyer for a while, who's been the greatest writers. And I just thought it was the best. And she's hugely responsible for that. But personally

• 3:37Doug DeMuro?

  also responsible for real success in my life. Jean Jennings.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  I love it. That's what a great story.

• 3:43Doug DeMuro?

  It is. It's an interesting story. I think about it a lot.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Indeed.

• 3:46Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, next news story today, Carrera GT.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Also something you think a lot about.

• 3:50Doug DeMuro?

  Lap time. Think about it all the time. In fact, I sent my Carrera GT still at the, my dealership getting serviced. And I sent them like, this angry text, like, get me the car back. And I think it came from, because I watched the lap time.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:59Doug DeMuro?

  It's like, I want to drive this thing.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  I got a laugh of my own.

• 4:04Doug DeMuro?

  Carr GT lap time. So here's the deal. Porsche developed a new tire for the Carr GT. We're getting the car. The Carr GTs are all being recalled right now for suspension componentry and Porsche is putting on new tires because tires have kind of always been one of the stories of this car. These tires are aging out. The car is dangerous with the old tires, so they say. So Porsche is giving everybody new tires. Now Porsche specifically developed a new tire for the Carr GT, a new type of Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tire. And the car with the new tires went around Nürburgring and did 712, 69, hundreds, thousands, millions. Nobody knows or cares. The result of this, the car, now this is just a tire change.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 4:40Doug DeMuro?

  Sport Auto did this test, just a German publication. They beat their previous time with the original tires set back when the car was new by 20 seconds.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 4:50Doug DeMuro?

  Just with tires. And, and this is the, in my opinion, the really important one, is faster than the factory 918 Spyder lap time around Nürburgring.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  How much faster is it than the factory Carr GT lap time?

• 5:01Doug DeMuro?

  Porsche, I don't think did one, but all of the Carr GT lap times were between 18 and 20 seconds slower than what the current, 16 and 20 seconds slower. So just tires. Now, I have also upgraded my suspension and the general feeling in the Carr GT community is that you have to upgrade your suspension. Everyone who drives the car has done it. And if they upgraded the suspension, I can't imagine how many more seconds it would pull off. You start to wonder if it would be around that seven minute mark, which is where some really serious cars are. But regardless, it's faster than 918 Spyder, proving something we've all already known. It's better than 918 Spyder.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  But this, this opens, in my opinion, the more interesting, I mean, it's a very interesting thing for you specifically with, since you own one. But I think it opens the door for more tests of older cars with modern rubber because tire technology has changed a lot since, I mean, even in the last 20 years. So.

• 5:52Doug DeMuro?

  I agree.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  I am kind of curious.

• 5:54Doug DeMuro?

  I would argue that because this car had these specially developed, nobody, there is modern rubbers available for old cars. But Porsche developed this tire and is now mandating that people put the tire on the car. I would argue two things. Number one, this is how fast the car is around Nürburgring because that's the factory tire and the.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Providing it to every owner.

• 6:15Doug DeMuro?

  And number two, okay, I'll, I'll see what a Ferrari F50 does on a modern rubber, but that's not a. Like I, we can do all sorts of modifications, but this is a factory thing.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  I don't really think that tires are all mod necessarily. That's I don't consider.

• 6:31Doug DeMuro?

  You want slicks? You want to throw, start throwing slicks on cars and go around Nürburgring? Then you got yourself a problem.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Slicks do become different. That's a different story.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Like somebody that owns a Carrera G2.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wants it to stay there. And you know, maybe they refresh the tires for the 918 and give it specific tires.

• 6:44Doug DeMuro?

  Maybe they should. They won't, I bet, because that's automatic hybrid stuff. And this is real.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Are we talking about this on the podcast? Cause you will sell it as soon as you get it back from service. Now, now that there's more hype.

• 6:55Doug DeMuro?

  I can't wait to drive it again, especially on the new tires.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  What time do you think you could do?

• 7:00Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, me personally?

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, you personally.

• 7:02Doug DeMuro?

  This was a Porsche test driver, by the way, who did this at 71269.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  It's an amazing lap to watch, by the way, if you haven't gone and seen it.

• 7:07Doug DeMuro?

  I could do, what do you do? 714? I think I would do 10 minutes. I watched the lap. I watched the lap, the whole thing.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  How many times?

• 7:15Doug DeMuro?

  Um, well, two things really hit me about this lap.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:19Doug DeMuro?

  Number one, he is always either full throttle or full brakes without exception.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  That is how you drive or all of them.

• 7:26Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. It's easier said than done when you're driving in somebody else's million dollar car. He is always full throttle or full brakes without exception. Very interesting to watch. He just had no fear.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Right. Well, that's the thing about race car drivers. They don't. That's why they get paid the big bucks to do it. If they stuff it, they stuff it. They're like, we're gonna, we're gonna do this.

• 7:43Doug DeMuro?

  Yep. Yep.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Commitment.

• 7:44Doug DeMuro?

  And that hit me watching the lap. And also it's kind of funny because like this is just for sport, you know? Like he, it's not, it's not, there's no professional aspect, but he just went for it. It was also very interesting. If you watch the lap, about 655 into the lap, it's a 712 lap. He almost loses it. And that is interesting to me because Nürburgring is incredibly long. You gotta, if you want to drive and set a real time, you gotta be chill with the fact that at 655, after all the work you've done, you might lose it.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 8:13Doug DeMuro?

  In the end, you have to drive in a way that that might be possible. Like, you can't be like, "Oh, I've done six and a half amazing minutes, so I'm just gonna chill the last minute", which is what you'd wanna do mentally. You gotta take every minute of this track as like, real. And I'm watching it like, I can't believe, he hits 180 miles an hour, 300 kilometers, and on the slowdown from that, he almost loses it as he's downshifting. The car gets, I mean, I'm sure he was in control, but I would've lost. And you can tell, he's, clearly, the car is moving around a little, you know?

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Dancing. Over seven minutes of pure concentration. And you're not, in a normal shorter track, you're, seven minutes, you're repeating a lap many, many times. Here, you're something new.

• 8:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  For a full seven minutes.

• 8:58Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  And I have to say-

• 8:59Doug DeMuro?

  It's hard.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Having watched it, also, like, his, like, his shift points are so perfect. It's like he knew, it's like he had a list, his mind just remembered exactly what number gear he had to be in, it was just like, it's just-

• 9:10Doug DeMuro?

  Amazing.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  That's what-

• 9:11Doug DeMuro?

  And remember, this is without rev matching, this is without PDK.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  This is real driving.

• 9:14Doug DeMuro?

  This adds another element to what a 918 spider drive would be, where you can probably leave it in automatic. They probably shift, but even then, as opposed to-

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Actually moving your leg.

• 9:23Doug DeMuro?

  I mean, it's real.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  I know, no, it's, it's very impressive. That's, that's real race car, it's real racecraft.

• 9:28Doug DeMuro?

  It really is. It really is. And that was-

• 9:31Speaker 01

  You're racing the clock.

• 9:32Doug DeMuro?

  You're racing the clock, but it's, it really was a masterclass in like, how you have to do this. It's been a while since I've watched a full Nürburgring lap in car. It is quite something.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Well, I think you have the perspective of having-

• 9:42Doug DeMuro?

  I do.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Driven one, and you own one, and it's like, you can imagine more of what it's like than watching a Pagani whatever go around the track.

• 9:49Doug DeMuro?

  Nonetheless, like, it's, I'm, I'm sitting there like, wow, this is what a professional, this is the difference between me and a professional, and it ain't a small difference. Like, it is real. And I drive my car hard, and I can do great downshifts, it's taken a long time to figure it out, but-

• 10:02Speaker 01

  But not like that.

• 10:02Doug DeMuro?

  He's on a, and, and I can't, he's driving the car so hard, it's almost like he's had years of experience in it. But you presume he hasn't. He probably just showed up and did a couple of laps.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Right. That's the thing, that's why they're professionals.

• 10:14Speaker 02

  This is 15 seconds slower than the Mustang GTD we were talking about a week or two ago.

• 10:17Doug DeMuro?

  It's wild.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Which is the fastest American car ever, ever's Nürburgring, and is meant for that purpose.

• 10:22Doug DeMuro?

  By the way-

• 10:23Speaker 02

  This is 20 years old.

• 10:23Doug DeMuro?

  Should point out also, this is the second fastest manual transmission car ever to go around the Nürburgring. ACR Viper.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 10:31Doug DeMuro?

  Which, remember, had tire failure on the third lap, they had to bail.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  But hey, man.

• 10:35Doug DeMuro?

  No tire failure here.

• 10:37Speaker 03

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• 10:41Speaker 04

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• 10:47Speaker 03

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• 10:58Speaker 03

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• 11:06Speaker 01

  Imagine how scary that is to do if this car, which is designed for this purpose, like the Viper is a sports car, but like, you know, it's a, it's probably a bigger handful.

• 11:16Doug DeMuro?

  That would be an interesting lap to watch on the inside.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  It shows how impressive they're.

• 11:19Doug DeMuro?

  Just amazing, amazing all around, amazing that they did it. And I truly wonder with good suspension, at that point, obviously you're going away from my whole claim about its manufacturer provided tires. But I do wonder like where it could go, but then you start wondering, okay, well, we're gonna have 50 go, where can McLaren F1 go? Where can a 40 go if you were willing to change out some wear, some wearables like suspension?

• 11:37Speaker 01

  To be honest with you, a lot of cars, a lot, a huge list, even beyond the supercars, like what does any 46 M3 do with cup twos on it?

• 11:45Doug DeMuro?

  It makes you wonder though, it kind of neutralizes some of all these great, like we, oh, 1910 Spider is so much faster. Well, well, it only because some, there's some modernized stuff that actually you could fix pretty easily. And then it's like, okay, well, if they're the same fast, wouldn't you rather have the one with the V10 and the manual?

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:58Doug DeMuro?

  You know which car is not faster? The Countach.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's not much fixing that.

• 12:04Doug DeMuro?

  What if anybody's ever done a timed Countach lap?

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Oh man, if, if it made it, which is a big, and they didn't like.

• 12:11Doug DeMuro?

  Seven minutes of like hard driving.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Attaining a Countach? I mean, well, seven minutes of being generous, it's gonna be like eight and a half, yeah, exactly.

• 12:19Doug DeMuro?

  All right, give us the next, that's the best news story of the week, the month, the year, give us the next news story. I'm sure you want to talk about this.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Nissan, there have been a lot of reports that they are talking about a merger.

• 12:26Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Or other partnerships, they're kind of vague about this, they haven't really started the talks, they should apparently be entering into a memorandum of understanding this week, next week, to really begin the merger talks.

• 12:36Doug DeMuro?

  Crazy.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  We talked this a while ago about how Nissan had, per some reports, a year or so of being around before they go bankrupt.

• 12:44Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  This is their solution, hopefully for them. It would create the third largest manufacturer, uh, behind Volkswagen Group and Toyota Group. It would also include Mitsubishi because Nissan owns like 25% or 24% of Mitsubishi. It's interesting.

• 12:58Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  It's kind of inevitable. There's got to be some consolidation. There's a lot of manufacturers. There's a lot of pressure from Tesla and other startup brands and Chinese brands certainly that have seemingly unlimited development capital.

• 13:10Doug DeMuro?

  And protectionist.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  Protectionist. So you got to, it's not that surprising that autumn.

• 13:14Doug DeMuro?

  I agree.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  They will consolidate as FCA did, by the way, as looks like.

• 13:17Doug DeMuro?

  We were talking last week about how there's too many brands. We're trying to figure out where Alfa Romeo and Maserati go. Here's a good example of if some of these companies want to survive, it's not just brands, it's manufacturers. If some of these companies want to survive, this is, this kind of stuff's going to be inevitable. I noticed Nissan's stock price is up 23% yesterday. Honda's is down 5%.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Tells you a lot.

• 13:34Doug DeMuro?

  This is not viewed as a.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Right. That's, and that's exactly what I think. What does Honda have to gain?

• 13:39Doug DeMuro?

  Scale.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, just pure scale. Yeah.

• 13:40Doug DeMuro?

  I think it's just scale. I do think it's interesting that Nissan is going down this road after the Renault thing, which they did and then fought so hard against and tried to get out of it and then did successfully get out of it. Now they're heading back in.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  They don't have a choice.

• 13:52Doug DeMuro?

  Well, clearly.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  Right. Like they, they just don't have a choice but to find somewhere to be acquired, sell a lot of their.

• 13:58Doug DeMuro?

  You would have to assume this would be tremendously advantageous for Honda financially, otherwise they wouldn't consider it. They're probably in much better shape.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  I'd be a little surprised if these merger talks end up in anything.

• 14:09Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, I don't know. If they're, if they're announcing it or, or leaking it, but it's become very widespread. It was the front page of the Wall Street Journal yesterday.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Yep. Pretty strategic.

• 14:16Doug DeMuro?

  Then, then you got to assume that there are some desires.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  But I'd be a little surprised. I mean, Honda very much wants and has already been partnered with Nissan on EV technology because Honda has very little of their own. That's probably their hope from some of that scale. Certainly their hope for some of that, but.

• 14:30Doug DeMuro?

  It is interesting to see how far some of these legacy automakers have, are finding themselves behind in EVs. Toyota claims they've done it intentionally, but China has very quickly, within three years, gone from like, they are buying Western cars, they're buying, you know, gas powered cars to like all EVs, all Chinese. And they have the benefit of the protectionist Chinese government. These guys, if you lose the Chinese market, you're in a, you're in a, and they have and will.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  They have. 100%.

• 14:54Doug DeMuro?

  You're in a really tough shape. You gotta figure out something else.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  And it's not just a Chinese market. Here in the US, we don't see Chinese cars, except for Chinese Volvos. But outside of that, you do. We were looking at Mexican market cars that were in San Diego yesterday, and there were a lot of Chinese cars. So every other market outside of the US, the Chinese may have infiltrated, and they're scared.

• 15:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, especially because the Chinese government is providing them with enormous incentives and benefits to be successful. And these old guys, not only are they not getting that, but they're behind in their technology. It's an interesting scenario.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Now, merger's not easy.

• 15:28Doug DeMuro?

  Mergers not easy. Take forever. In fact, I sit here and wonder, is it really beneficial to get a larger, less dynamic company? Like, hasn't Tesla's success been largely predicated on the fact that they're like svelte and quick and can make quick changes and do stuff? And here we want to combine these two like giant dinosaur companies.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  And yeah, like, what do you do? Do you keep the Nissan brand and then Infiniti brand and then the Datsun sub-brand and then Mitsubishi? Because that exists in other markets. Like, what do you do with that merger? I think you want to do a lot of technology sharing, kind of like Stellantis has done, but not very successfully.

• 16:01Doug DeMuro?

  Battery development. And I mean, it's got to be all EVs.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  It's got to just focus all on EVs. That'll be interesting to see.

• 16:05Doug DeMuro?

  Meanwhile, this market is rejecting EVs.

• 16:07Speaker 01

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• 17:48Doug DeMuro?

  Our next news story, go to the, go to the.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 17:51Doug DeMuro?

  Lambo.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Yes, so Lamborghini has announced unsurprisingly that they are pushing back their EV production till 2029. Now, they debuted a car, their EV concept that's supposed to come out in 2028. However, they're like, eh, maybe not.

• 18:06Doug DeMuro?

  What do you think it'll actually come?

• 18:07Speaker 01

  This is, when I think Lamborghini, this is precisely what I think. Something that's spitting flames and looks nuts.

• 18:13Doug DeMuro?

  Spitting flames in a tunnel.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  An EV is just antithetical to everything they stand for. They, you want noise and passion and you want it to have like machine guns that come out of the hood. Like it's insane.

• 18:25Doug DeMuro?

  You can do it in an EV and then you can still have fire. I gotta tell you.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Not exciting.

• 18:27Doug DeMuro?

  I'm supportive of EVs. This news story, I'm just like, hell yeah.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Hell yeah. Lamborghini's like, yo.

• 18:34Doug DeMuro?

  You know, I was ready to kind of start figuring out how to make the transition and all that. All these companies were doing it. It's, they're all pushing back and I think that's probably for the better for the consumer. And by the way, I'm referring specifically to high performance.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Performance sports car, exotic, yes.

• 18:49Doug DeMuro?

  I think that, I'm driving this Macani V right now. That car is great and it's better than the gas one. And for how most people use it, they should get an electric one, right?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:58Doug DeMuro?

  Totally. That.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  I want, when I want a sports car, I want an experience and an engine is important to that. And so it's not a surprise that they're doing this, but it is notable. I mean, that's a big sports car manufact, an important sports car manufacturer that continues to grow in importance, saying, no.

• 19:14Doug DeMuro?

  These companies have to be looking at the, the Penninfria Batista and the Rimacnevera, which have not been selling and, and which have been getting slaughtered on the used market. Plus they have. Have to be looking at cars like the SF90 where they're getting slaughtered on the used market. Whereas 458 Speciales are double. They gotta be looking at that and saying, okay, these, it's not just a couple of enthusiasts. Yeah. The market is, is speaking.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Definitely. And, you know, Monte Rimas said that himself, like the people just don't want the electric stuff for other sports cars. If you're going to spend that kind of money to have an experience, but I agree. Daily stuff, EVs, no problem.

• 19:50Doug DeMuro?

  No problem, whatever. Who cares? Traffic is traffic.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Traffic is traffic.

• 19:54Doug DeMuro?

  Right. Like, we'd rather plug it in because then it doesn't emit and it doesn't cost money. But like this.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Do you think that once they eventually go EV, the like exhaust manufacturers like Gantani and FI will make just like flamethrowers for the back? There, there, there will be exhaust. They gotta do something.

• 20:10Doug DeMuro?

  Dude, I gotta be honest with you. The, the, the pushbacks on timeline make me wonder when they will go EV. Like, we're talking 29 now. Okay, that's five years. I'm only thinking about this from a self-introduced perspective. Okay, I'll be 41, 42. I mean, can we make this last until I'm out of, I'm out of the situation? You know what I mean?

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Just gotta get another, just get another 50, 60 years in their total and you're, you're good.

• 20:33Doug DeMuro?

  I'm good. Right?

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Not unlikely.

• 20:36Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, you do wonder what the exhaust manufacturers will do, but you also wonder if they'll never have to face it.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  I would be shocked.

• 20:42Doug DeMuro?

  Sincerely mean that.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  For sports, yeah, I, I think, we'll see. It'll be, it's, this will be an interesting thing to think back on 20 years from now. But I am, I am curious.

• 20:51Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, 20 years from now it'll be settled. And it'll be like, I wonder, and I'm curious.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  Well, know the direction. That's what's so exciting about right now because you don't really know which direction it's going to go. So, I don't know, we'll see. But me, I'm hoping that a V12 that spit flames stay around.

• 21:04Doug DeMuro?

  Now, the Temerario or your John Tamarin?

• 21:06Speaker 01

  The John Tamarin.

• 21:07Doug DeMuro?

  Is that, that's a plug-in hybrid?

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:10Doug DeMuro?

  VA?

• 21:11Speaker 01

  I believe that's right. Yes, VA.

• 21:12Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. I mean, it's not as bad as, it's not, it's not a V10, like it's a.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  A hybrid is.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  All that really matters, I, I agree. I think that real, all that really matters with that is that you have the sound in some capacity and you have that excitement.

• 21:24Doug DeMuro?

  I agree generally, although we have SF90 values kind of are showing me at least that, that there is less of an interest in on the used market. There's less of an interest in the plug-in stuff. Meanwhile, the, the, the big engine cars still seem to be.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  I think that's for.

• 21:38Doug DeMuro?

  Doing okay. What's doing okay?

• 21:40Speaker 02

  The 2960 secondary market is all hybrid.

• 21:42Doug DeMuro?

  Revolto is doing tremendously well, which I assume is hybrid in some.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  They're ever, I can't believe the number they've delivered, but I do think that. I think the SF90 was a big concern because Ferrari really shot themselves in the foot with how they did not support the law Ferrari. At our own Ferrari dealer in San Diego, there were three of them in for service. I suspect all for $300,000 batteries that Ferrari doesn't support.

• 22:00Doug DeMuro?

  P1, there's battery issues.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  P1, yeah.

• 22:02Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know how much I'm allowed to disclose, but maybe Felipe could take it from here.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I really have carefully watched the P1. You had an Aston Martin Valkyrie review that came out this week. You had a great line in that about how much more of an experience it is than the Pininfarca Batista that you drove up four weeks ago.

• 22:19Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, it's notable.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  It's an experience even just watching it. It's like, yeah, especially all the camera highlights.

• 22:27Doug DeMuro?

  I was astonished at the response to that video. People were really into it, and I think that is sort of gives you eyesight into how people feel about crazy gas-powered, hyper supercar-type things in general. Like, that's still what gets emotion going for people.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  I would rather have, I've said many times, I'd rather have a slow car that makes me feel like I'm going fast than an actually fast car.

• 22:49Doug DeMuro?

  I think about 993s all the time. It's just the feel of it is great. And Porsche's like, well, PDK.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  That's why Kenan wants a Viper.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, the Viper's a feel car. All right, give us the next news story. I'm so happy for Lamborghini and the rest of the world.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Ah, yes. So Ferrari has announced that they are going to be the engine supplier for the Cadillac Formula One team in 2026. Now, the interesting thing about that announcement is that Cadillac has not been approved by the FIA to compete in Formula One in 2026. Not yet. They're still in the process.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  They bought the team. Like, what does that mean?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  You have to go through, it's a very arduous process to go through approval from the FIA to make sure you have the facilities to produce such a car that can do a whole bunch of other stuff, and it gets very political, as you can imagine.

• 23:30Doug DeMuro?

  Can I ask a lot of questions? My assumption, okay, I don't know anything about Formula One. I see the car. Okay, on the on the on the on the track, they call it a track.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Well, some are tracks, some are street circuits, but we'll move on.

• 23:44Doug DeMuro?

  They the car says Aston Martin. My assumption is that Aston Martin makes the body, the engine, the steering wheel.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Not always. So there are a number of manufacturers Ferrari, Mercedes Benz come to mind immediately that supply engines to other teams. So you can buy an engine and a gearbox, which is what Ferrari says they're going to supply from another manufacturer and put it in your own car.

• 24:04Doug DeMuro?

  Is it not is it not antithetical to the whole like Cadillac is going to compete like carrying the torch for America in Formula One, except the entire powertrain like, you know what I mean? Like, I want Cadillac to have a Cadillac. I want a black wing V8. And I don't know what the rules are.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Well, that won't happen. But as much as I wish that would happen, that will not.

• 24:24Doug DeMuro?

  What so what? Like, I don't understand. What? Why? Cadillac wants to be in the F1 so badly that they had going to have the engine built by another manufacturer?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  I mean, Red Bull has used a number of engines. Honda, they then bought Honda's engines and build them in-house. I mean, this has happened with a lot of manufacturers.

• 24:39Doug DeMuro?

  I know, but it's annoying to me. I wanted Cadillac to be ground up. I wanted Mario Andretti in there wrenching on the engines himself. I wanted Bob Lutz or his ghost, I'm not sure, to be building engines in Detroit.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  The reality of that is that it is incredibly expensive. And Jim has come out and said they will make a Formula One engine. They will get there. But to get off the ground and get things moving, Ferrari has agreed to be there.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  Why not just wait to launch? So you've done it.

• 25:04Doug DeMuro?

  You know what this is?

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Because if they want to get in the sport, now is the time to capitalize. It's very popular in America to be in Formula One. This is an American, a real American manufacturer. We had Haas F1, which ties to Gene Haas, who does a lot of racing in America. But this is a real, this is GM.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  Do you think that GM and Mary Barra is worried that Cadillac will have closed as a brand by the time they actually start developing their own?

• 25:26Doug DeMuro?

  Cadillac's real, dude. Cadillac's real. They got the they got the XT6 and the Vistak. Uh, it's Vistique, I think.

• 25:33Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, so they're gonna go racing. Cadillac, when is this gonna happen? 26?

• 25:36Speaker 01

  They're saying 2026, yeah. And Ferrari's made it very clear that it is contingent on Cadillac being approved to be in the sport. But yeah, 2026 is when we should see that on the grid.

• 25:45Doug DeMuro?

  This is the Honda prologue of Formula One.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  It is.

• 25:48Doug DeMuro?

  They, they know they're gonna do better things later, but they're just getting started.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Hey, man, you gotta start somewhere.

• 25:54Doug DeMuro?

  You gotta start somewhere. And if the car looks like that, I'm super into it. Who's gonna sponsor this thing? Can I?

• 25:58Speaker 01

  You, if you have enough money to do it, I suppose you could.

• 26:01Doug DeMuro?

  It's cost to like, have like a decal on like, right there.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  You know, well, in highly visible spots on television, a ton, but there are spots on a Formula One car that are a lot less expensive than you might think.

• 26:10Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  But none, nonetheless.

• 26:12Doug DeMuro?

  What can I get for eight grand?

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Something. Really small. It would be great to have like a tiny you, or tiny noodle.

• 26:20Doug DeMuro?

  I have decided that, if not a Formula One fan, never been a Formula One fan, have decided that I am going to cheer on Cadillac in Formula One. I'm gonna cheer on the American brand.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  If I got you to watch Formula One for even one season, I would be so happy.

• 26:35Doug DeMuro?

  Well, now, now it's relevant to me. You know, before it was a bunch of Europeans out there doing stuff. I don't know what there was going on.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  2026 is a big deal next year because there's a huge regulation change that comes that year. So it will shake, shake up the grid and we'll see what's gonna go.

• 26:49Doug DeMuro?

  You know what they should do for regulations? Have no regulations. That's the race series that I would fan car.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  The problem is then they have self-adjusting suspension and the car kinda drives it. If, if there were no regulations, they probably would, if manufacturers wanna get rid of drivers altogether, let the cars drive themselves.

• 27:03Doug DeMuro?

  Well, that seems not fun. I would, I would watch.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Precisely. That, they tried this like recently with, with like AI driven. It was a disaster. I don't even think the car's completed a lap. I don't remember exactly what circuit it was at, but they attempted this and it was, as funny as you think.

• 27:18Doug DeMuro?

  I mean, they could do it. I have no doubt. It's a single track. Like, what's the fun in that? That same old fellow will have this figured out within a couple of days.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  I have said many times, like, I, I root, you root for the driver and the team, like, that's what you wanna see win.

• 27:30Doug DeMuro?

  At that point, just fuck a track in the ground and just have it follow that, like a. Or have the whole thing be virtual. Have the whole thing be virtual. Why have, they would be. Run the race.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Well, they do that. They do. And that is the most boring thing in the world to watch. But yeah, they do.

• 27:43Doug DeMuro?

  Like computer game racing?

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, they do esports like for form like not for Formula One, but.

• 27:47Doug DeMuro?

  You want at any time.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Let's go. In theory, we will have a.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  It was so great. A brief story. So Max Verstappen was taking part. They did like a version of that for LeMans for 24 hours. You're going to drive digitally and format. And Max Verstappen, who just sits and does this all day. He just loves simulators. Took part in it, but they had so many like glitches where and when the system would glitch, it would send you back to the pits. So he'd be like around a lot. And then all of a sudden be in the pits and he's like, guys. Eventually he got so fed up with it. He was like, I'm done. That's enough. I've had enough of it. He was like. 10 hours into it. He was like, I'm finished. This is ridiculous and I'm done. The wild stuff.

• 28:21Doug DeMuro?

  All right, let's move on to talking about cars. We got to talk about cars. And we generally talk about cars on the podcast, but for some reason there is a segment called Talk Cars where we talk about cars.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:29Doug DeMuro?

  I want to talk about the first thing I want to talk about. I didn't send you the picture, but I can describe it. I damaged a press car yesterday.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 28:36Doug DeMuro?

  For the first time, not the first time. I've done this many times. No, I've actually only done it three or four times.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  And been accused of it a few other times.

• 28:43Doug DeMuro?

  And then been accused. I don't even want to get into the McLaren incident. Been accused of it a few other times. But.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  What did you do? Hit a mailbox? Hit a house? Hit a wall?

• 28:51Doug DeMuro?

  I lightly curved the wheel on a MyBike. Now, this is the biggest damage. I've never crashed a press car. I've never damaged press car. I've never hit anyone in the press car. I've never hit anything with a press car. Never been in an accident.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  You hit a curve.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Never seriously damaged a press car.

• 29:02Doug DeMuro?

  Never any real damage. Okay. Uh, but I've curbed two or three wheels and then I scraped the, I scratched the roof of a Subaru BRZ once. Uh, and that's like it. That's like.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  How?

• 29:14Doug DeMuro?

  I had like, there was like something I had on it and I guess I didn't lift it up. I like pulled it off and it was, I was astonished that it scratched, but we can have a discussion about Subaru pain another time. But regardless, the, the big issue here is that the MyBike was supposed to come to me six weeks ago. But the wheel was damaged when the car was in transit to me by the press car company.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Are you kidding?

• 29:33Doug DeMuro?

  And so it, and then they had to order the wheel. It took them six weeks for the wheel to come. And then I damaged the wheel again on the last day I had it while I was parking it just for the press car people to be in the spot for them to pick up.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  I mean, how, how noticeably?

• 29:46Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, well, the black wheels. And so it's like scratched silver.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Ah, get a Sharpie.

• 29:50Doug DeMuro?

  That particular car, I think, I think they'll just paint it. Like a wheel wasn't so dan, like it wasn't any real, but I'm very, damaging press cars is very annoying to me. Other journalists, I'm told do it. And when I worked at Porsche, we heard some stories. I, our PR team told us, there was a journalist who rolled a Cayenne Turbo at Cayenne Lodge.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  I'm stunned it was just one.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  Person.

• 30:09Doug DeMuro?

  I have never had any of that stuff happen. I've never been in a real accident, but scratched the wheel.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm very sorry.

• 30:16Doug DeMuro?

  Right.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  What other cars you've scratched the wheels of?

• 30:20Doug DeMuro?

  A Ferrari GTC4 Lusso, a long time, maybe 10 years ago, probably. Um, I can't remember, a little stuff. One time Noodle jumped into a BMW I had and like, and like ruffled a leather center console cover. I didn't, it wasn't inviting him in. I had the door open and he jumped in and.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Yep, he's done that.

• 30:39Doug DeMuro?

  Little stuff.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  He's jumped into my BMW as a matter of fact.

• 30:41Doug DeMuro?

  The press car companies assume this is gonna happen, like, and, and the press cars are, I mean, they, they find a new driver basically every week. And the goal is to drive them hard and drive them a lot. Uh, but I still feel terrible when I do it, cause I never do it.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  I will say the number of times that it's been damaged in transit to you still outnumbers.

• 30:56Doug DeMuro?

  Absolutely. I frequently will get a call being like, we, we were gonna deliver this today and unfortunately we had an accident, scratched a wheel, it broke down.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Somebody else crashed it.

• 31:05Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, that happens not infrequently. The McLaren thing that happened was I got a call, the McLaren something or other, I don't remember, I don't care. Came to me for a day. I drove it to the office, filmed the video, drove it home. I don't, other journalists, when they get a McLaren, they like spend a whole day. You know, that is just like their life for that day. They call their friends, they get them, for me, it's, I got other cars like this, I don't really care. And I'm not a big McLaren guy. Drove to the office, drove it home, seven miles, right? And I get a call, yeah, the, the underside is scraped. I'm like, I'll be honest with you. I have these cars personally and I drove that thing seven miles. I didn't scrape the underside. You could blame whoever you want, but that wasn't me. And I don't know what happened, lied it, I just didn't accept it. Uh, I was just like, nope.

• 31:50Doug DeMuro?

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• 33:13Doug DeMuro?

  That's 20% off plus free shipping with the code cars at manscaped.com. Okay, Filippo, give us one of your top cars.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Can we talk about more about the Valkyrie? I watched that video last night at home sitting on the couch.

• 33:27Doug DeMuro?

  You want to talk about the Valkyrie?

• 33:31Doug DeMuro?

  He will watch my videos if it's like an electric minivan.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. And this is the only supercar one that I've, I haven't watched that one. I saw the car here. This is the only one that I've watched in a long time. But like the, I was told ahead of time, we were trying to figure out what to do with the camera for the end car and the audio.

• 33:45Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  And I'm glad we left it because it like unfocuses and refocuses based on vibration. How was that experience? You sent us and our friend group some photos while you were filming it. And it's very clear that it like, I feel like the video didn't capture how insane that car is somehow.

• 33:58Doug DeMuro?

  People I thought would make fun of me, and maybe they did, I don't really read the comments, but people I thought would make fun of me for comparing it to a race car at the highest level. I think I said that. Or I didn't, the voiceover that we were going to put over the audio because you couldn't hear it. Like driving a Formula One car because it's like, you've never driven, you wouldn't know. I mean, it can't be much crazier than that. We were going 12,000 RPM, everything was shaking, you couldn't hear a thing. It was, it was absolute visceral insanity in your mind. I get out of that car and I was like panting.

• 34:25Doug DeMuro?

  You know, like I was, it was crazy. Totally, totally unbelievable experience. Really, really, really, really insane. And we're driving that down Newport coast there. And a guy in like a C sixty-three sees and is like flipping out. Imagine you're just cruising along.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  I'd lose it. That's what you hope to see driving around.

• 34:43Doug DeMuro?

  No plates for just like seven minutes, you know? And this like, yeah, it's like, imagine.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  We would have.

• 34:49Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, I would have freaked totally.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Even he might have, it turns out.

• 34:53Doug DeMuro?

  For sure. I was surprised at the response. I'm still getting texts with people. I can't believe that video. It's so amazing. It was cool. I didn't think that people were so excited about that car as they are.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  Nobody knows, like, they exist. They're in the ether, but like.

• 35:05Doug DeMuro?

  Nobody knows what it's like.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 35:06Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Where does it, can the, I have an important question, consumer question. The top can be removed, right?

• 35:12Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, we didn't do it.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  Can it be stowed anywhere?

• 35:15Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, I can't imagine because there's no storage really.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  I look to your videos for answers to questions such as this.

• 35:20Doug DeMuro?

  You know, we were running up on, we were running up on daylight. I, I tried, I did everything. If you, I'm sure you watched the quirk segment. The drive is cool. That's what everybody's been talking about. The quirk segment, I did everything.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:31Doug DeMuro?

  I'd like to see other people do some of the.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  For where the roof panels go.

• 35:34Doug DeMuro?

  You know what I also did, which is really annoying? In order to film a bunch of different things, I had to climb in and out of that car, truly probably twenty-five times. It was hell. You gotta take off your shoes. You have to. People are making fun of me apparently in the supercar ride video for having my shoes off. There's, there's no option.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  Is a footwell that small?

• 35:53Doug DeMuro?

  Well, and also you're stepping on, you're stepping on expensive stuff. And so like, I'd rather do that with my socks than with shoes. So you're, that's a thing. And yeah, it's really tight in that car. So like getting rid of anything you can to make yourself fit in. By the end, I was like, thinking to myself, I hope I never see an Aston Martin Valkyrie. And you're just, you won't. So you're good.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  That's true. Then you're just developing more and look at you. You're going to turn into a race car fan. You're just developing more and more of an appreciation for what race car drivers do.

• 36:21Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  The crazy T time, getting in and out.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  You love the P one GTR.

• 36:25Doug DeMuro?

  I love the P one GTR. I don't know that I would say that I loved the Valkyrie. I would say that it was an experience like few others. I loved it for what it did. Like if you wanted that, it delivers it better than any car I have ever been in. I don't know that I would want it personally.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  I'm not saying you do. I'm saying you're developing an appreciation from these experiences.

• 36:47Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Not that you have to have them, not that you would want to drive a Formula One car, but you're developing.

• 36:52Doug DeMuro?

  It was definitely quite a thing to experience.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  So cool.

• 36:56Doug DeMuro?

  And it definitely, like, it has this roots in Formula One because of how it was developed and who it was developed by.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:01Doug DeMuro?

  You, I'm sure Formula One cars are more insane, but like, this was, this was it.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  The big difference is Formula, I mean, the era of that car is exceptional, but yeah, Formula One car is complete. I mean, generates six G.

• 37:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Around corners, which is.

• 37:17Doug DeMuro?

  You have to be a real pro.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  I think on Newport Coast Boulevard, you get the.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Definitely.

• 37:24Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know if we left it in. I didn't watch the drive, but, but there was one point where I shifted as, as high as I could. And he, supercar Ron's like, you know, you shifted it at five. I mean, it's nothing. That's a, that's two thirds of the way up the rev range. You know, it'd be like shifting an Accord GT at forty four hundred.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Now imagine doing it with a manual and a car called a T dot five zero.

• 37:43Doug DeMuro?

  Know that you want to, but I think we talked enough about the T five zero last week.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  That's an interesting.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  And more refined experience nonetheless.

• 37:50Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, anyway.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Refined is a word of reason for anything Valkyrie related.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  The T fifty.

• 37:54Doug DeMuro?

  Well, I know, but would refinement have made it better?

• 37:58Speaker 01

  The T fifty.

• 38:00Doug DeMuro?

  The Valkyrie.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  For what a car he actually wants to enjoy. Yes.

• 38:02Doug DeMuro?

  That's an interesting point. I mean, the Valkyrie, one of its benefits is that it is so.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Insane.

• 38:07Doug DeMuro?

  Race car like. And that's one of the things I liked about P one GT R and BAC mono is that even though I'm not into those cars. If I had lots of money, I'd probably have a P one GT R because just that, it was just so unrefined that the, like, the character of that was cool.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Have you done a Vulcan?

• 38:23Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, no.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 38:25Doug DeMuro?

  No, but I mean.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  That's, I think that's just much harder to drive. We had one at the exotic car dealership I worked at. And watching one of the guys who had driven race cars, like move it around is hilarious. He stalled it like twenty five times. Like, it is like, because it's an extract gearbox and you could go into gear and it just wants to, it just wants to go.

• 38:42Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, the Valkyrie, for all of its insanity, is actually a car you use. Like, it has a regular transmission to the extent that it just, you put it in drive and it goes. And like, it has a rear view mirror camera and it has like a radio. Like, it's a car that is, as far as crazy stuff goes. It's like usable crazy stuff.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:03Doug DeMuro?

  Bish.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  And a Valkyrie is a dedicated track car.

• 39:06Doug DeMuro?

  It really is.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Some made for road use, but yeah.

• 39:08Doug DeMuro?

  The Vulcan, you mean the Vulcan.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  A Vulcan, yeah, Vulcan is, yeah.

• 39:10Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I think they were all track cars.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:12Doug DeMuro?

  Maybe there were some.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  I think that they couldn't be used a lot of tracks as they exceed the noise limit because it is unbelievable how loud their cars. But anyway, a really cool experience and a great video.

• 39:20Doug DeMuro?

  I'm thrilled at the response. I thought it was really cool. It was interesting to see that because I don't do a lot of hypercar videos anymore because a lot of the, I've done them all, you know? And, and now it's a lot of EVs and stuff and some of those get really pos, like get big views, the ID buzz.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  The P4R did well from like a view perspective. People wanted to see it.

• 39:36Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but, but I know you never get, when you do the ID buzz and the Rivian R2, it's a lot of interested consumers and it's a lot of, you know, people who are in the market or just want to see it's cool. To see the response to like a holy crap, this is insane video is kind of, that's kind of.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  I think that no other video of yours has shown quite how insane it is, like.

• 39:54Doug DeMuro?

  Which is good because it's actually hard to describe. I really think for that car, it's like hard to put into words.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:59Doug DeMuro?

  No one else has ever had the experience of driving car shifts at 12,000. So like, I can't explain it.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 40:04Doug DeMuro?

  I've tried for years to explain why the Countach is so special and I think it still falls on deaf ears a lot of the time.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:09Doug DeMuro?

  Because it's hard to explain.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:11Doug DeMuro?

  But that video kind of did a good job of illustrating.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:14Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. All right, Ken, tell us about your, uh, we're not going to listen to, I, I won't accept anything about you, a 500 a bar, potentially buying cars.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, come on, no. So the car is sitting there and we can see it.

• 40:27Doug DeMuro?

  I said nothing.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  You have no permission to talk about it. It's on our list of things to talk about.

• 40:32Doug DeMuro?

  I said nothing.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  He added, and that is insane.

• 40:34Doug DeMuro?

  I said nothing, but let's talk about the Cayenne Turbo and your desire to have one.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so I do really want a daily and I'm trying to decide what to get because I'm very precious about my car, as you can imagine. And so I'm trying to figure out like a Cayenne Turbo seems like the right answer. But I had been thinking.

• 40:48Doug DeMuro?

  Was this based, did you come to this conclusion because of our?

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yes. And just like driving around the city and going through dips and parking and looking back at it, like turning around, it's like, man, it still looks like a nice car.

• 40:59Doug DeMuro?

  You can now get a Cayenne base for $10,000 or an SE hybrid for 12.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Niceties of the turbo.

• 41:05Doug DeMuro?

  Or an SE hybrid with the option for 13. I will say an S, even the S from that era was, had 400 horsepower, pretty, pretty stout.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Pretty solid, yes.

• 41:12Doug DeMuro?

  The A. It's the only thing you've described so far, just there's some suspension travel and it looks like a Cayenne.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  That's so.

• 41:17Doug DeMuro?

  Just every kind.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  When it drives well, like the kind turbo drives great. Like I really put around some corners at speed and it is lovely. It drives very nicely.

• 41:25Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  But my, my point is like, would it be better for me to consider leasing a daily that like, just I don't have to worry about maintenance? That's the big fear with the Cayenne turbo. They are reliable cars, but consumables are pretty expensive.

• 41:37Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  And so, and you know, it's like.

• 41:39Doug DeMuro?

  The problem is, I don't think you could ever lease anything that's anywhere near as cool as the Cayenne turbo for what the Cayenne turbo will cost you to own. So let's say the Cayenne turbo costs even being pretty liberal at like four grand a year in, in repairs and maintenance. I can't imagine it would be.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  I can't. I don't think.

• 41:55Doug DeMuro?

  If you get a nice one.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:56Doug DeMuro?

  Maybe five grand. I don't know.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Fifteen thousand dollars. A year will round a bunch is a little bit over three hundred dollars.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  I think that's more than enough.

• 42:02Doug DeMuro?

  That's the thing. What three hundred bucks a month doesn't.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  A base I four, an, an EV six, a Nissan Aria.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. I just, I, that's the thing I ran into. It's like, and to be honest with you, it's like, I've considered, it's like, well, do I just want kind of a normalish car to deal in? The answer is no. I, I'm a car enthusiast and like, I couldn't be in anything boring. It has to be something that like, I am excited about, even if it's a car I don't care as much about in terms of how I'm precious with it. If I, it just has to be engaging and exciting.

• 42:28Doug DeMuro?

  I think you would be bored if you went out and leased an Aria for three hundred a month. Yeah. You'd, you'd, you'd save money on not using your M5 as much and save fuel and all that, but like at what personal cost.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Right. And EVs don't fit into my life because I don't have a place to charge it at where I live.

• 42:42Doug DeMuro?

  No place to charge. Don't really need the space. Like, don't really need, like.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  No, it's nice for the emissions of merely driving around like where we live, like in kind of in the city. It's like, it's a little bit, it's a little bit nice. And the silence and serenity of an EV is, is appealing when you have something a little bit more visceral.

• 42:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Not that that car.

• 42:58Doug DeMuro?

  It would definitely fit into your lifestyle and there are positives, like you wouldn't have to, uh, pay for fuel. But Cayenne turbo is a Cayenne turbo.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  I know. It gets the same fuel economy that the, that does like around town, which is.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Not if you drive it like Doug does, which fuel economy challenge.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  That was impressive. I thought about that.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  Something I consider.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Of course. Like, I don't really have to use.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  I'd buy a Corvette.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I, I think the hunt for a Cayenne turbo is like, will commence shortly.

• 43:22Doug DeMuro?

  Why not a Macan?

• 43:24Speaker 01

  You know, because other than he would make fun of me for it a lot, and I do like the Macan. I do. I love the way they look.

• 43:30Doug DeMuro?

  I would make fun of you, but Macan Turbo is pretty damn good. It's very athletic and

• 43:34Speaker 01

  It is.

• 43:35Doug DeMuro?

  Macan Turbo has PDK, whereas Cayenne always had Tiptronic.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Always had Tip, yeah, for towing reasons is my understanding. But I think, yeah, I think the reason not Macan, I mean, my friend Nick had one and had just tremendous issues, which is, I know maybe not as common, but the Cayenne, the way I view it is like the Cayenne is developed a little bit more as a solid platform because it had to be used for Bentley, had to be used for Lamborghini, had to be used for a number of other things and Macan less so. And I think it's just a less expensive, they put a little bit less R and D into it maybe, and that's why there are issues.

• 44:03Doug DeMuro?

  Just based on personal information, no, I, Cayenne, those Cayenne turbos do seem to be pretty reliable.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  They seem to be solid.

• 44:09Doug DeMuro?

  You get one of those 70,000 miles, you get it like a 12 or 13, 70,000 miles, I think you drive that car for a long time.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  That's probably a 25 car.

• 44:14Doug DeMuro?

  And that's a 25 car, no?

• 44:16Speaker 02

  30. For, for, for 12, 13, they're like.

• 44:18Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, he's out of his mind. He's crazy.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  For, for, I have, I have looked for one with reasonable mileage in a, in the color that isn't black, because so many of them were off.

• 44:26Doug DeMuro?

  The gray looks nice.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  I kind of want that exact spec.

• 44:29Doug DeMuro?

  Well, it's gonna be maybe won by somebody or maybe on.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  140,000 miles, it starts to be like, well, all right, I'd like to get one with less miles than that. Just because, again, like, maintenance costs are what are on my mind because like, I put the money into the car, I want to have like, perfect in terms of maintenance and like, I kind of would like to not be doing that with the next one, so.

• 44:46Doug DeMuro?

  I'm interested. I would love it. I also think you can get in and out of it no problem, uh, without losing money.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Uh, not, not a ton of money. Yeah, I don't think so.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  But there's so many cool cars for 25 grand.

• 44:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but for.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Not for what I want.

• 44:59Doug DeMuro?

  For a daily that can do everything, he can off-road it, he can luxury it, he can drive it fast.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  It is everything.

• 45:03Doug DeMuro?

  He can enjoy it. Like, when you look at a Cayenne Turbo, when I look at one, when I see one on the street, I'm always like, even 2011 or 12, I'm still like, that is a cool car.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  I, I totally agree. And I was just.

• 45:13Doug DeMuro?

  Even a 5.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Driving that one around, listening to Watercolors, like driving in light, man, oh.

• 45:18Doug DeMuro?

  Some would wonder if you even need an E39M5.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 45:21Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, let's do a quick market report brought to you by Cars and Bids. Actually, it's brought to you by the Cars and Bids app. The Cars and Bids app.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  I think just by Cars and Bids now.

• 45:27Doug DeMuro?

  Just like Cars and Bids, but an app form.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  By the way, we have 700 something five star reviews. People are loving that.

• 45:34Doug DeMuro?

  We only have 700 five star reviews, folks. We need to get it up to 800. I don't know what's good or what's bad. Okay.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  The app is good.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  I'll tell you what, T, the app is good.

• 45:42Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Go, go download it.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 45:45Doug DeMuro?

  There's not much to discuss market board because I really want to get to questions because I love the question segment. Oh, my God, what is this Hellcat thing we have? We got a, we got a Hellcat jailbreak convertible live on the site. Filippo, if you don't buy this.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  So cool.

• 45:54Doug DeMuro?

  I'll be mad at you. Where is it? What Midwestern state? And it's Indiana. Fort Wayne, Indiana.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Okay, so cool. There's only one market report thing I want to talk about.

• 46:04Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, I'll, I'll do one of mine and you do one of yours.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:08Doug DeMuro?

  Lotus Evora, pull it up.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:10Doug DeMuro?

  I want to talk about the Evora because on the subject of cars that are getting cheaper, there's been, which been a topic we've talked about a lot lately and, and it's done well on these pod shorts that we've been doing. Evora is getting cheaper, but I bet it's flooring.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:26Doug DeMuro?

  I can't imagine that, that a 2010 with 23,000 miles and a manual gets too much cheaper than 36. And then you start to realize the Evora, it has the famous Elise thing, like the Elise, you could buy one for 30, sell one for 30, now it's maybe 35. Evora is the same deal. Toyota powertrain's still stout and they're getting to that point where they're probably floored and you can buy and sell and get out of it for the same number. And because they're reliable, you probably don't have to put much money into it. And these cars have always kind of been used car market bargains. And I think that at this price, 35, 36, I am guessing that this is about where they stay. And then they become real used car market bargains when you don't even have to factor in depreciation or much maintenance or repair.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Well, I, the engine may be reliable, but I'm concerned about the other aspects of the car that are not engine related. Like the, the English and their electronics are not willing to be complimentary.

• 47:16Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, the engine makes the car go. All the other stuff is just along for the ride. So like, what are you telling me? The door is going to fall off? Nah.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  No, but I mean, it, car, you know, the electronic system fails and strands you somewhere. It's like, I mean, that's a realistic concern with a Lotus.

• 47:28Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  You know what it stands for? Lots of trouble, usually serious.

• 47:32Doug DeMuro?

  Lots of tremendous.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Usable.

• 47:36Doug DeMuro?

  Usable supercar.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Nice. Lots of tremendous usable.

• 47:41Doug DeMuro?

  No, I you you might be right. However, they do get miles. We sell them with miles.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  We that is true.

• 47:47Doug DeMuro?

  Sometimes.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  That is sometimes.

• 47:49Doug DeMuro?

  People use them. People drive them.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Some might have miles.

• 47:52Doug DeMuro?

  14,000.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Well, that's that's a three year old car. Sort by has miles.

• 47:56Doug DeMuro?

  Some of them do get miles.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Good point.

• 47:57Doug DeMuro?

  We.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  Eighty eight.

• 47:58Doug DeMuro?

  Eighty eight thousand miles on this one.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Look at it in yellow.

• 48:00Doug DeMuro?

  I've never heard of anybody. I've had buddies, Vettie, Vores and Elise has never heard of anybody who had electrical issues. The Elise has that body problem where the whole car is the body. And if you like, touch it and breathe on it, you got to replace.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  You would scratch it and then have to replace the body.

• 48:11Doug DeMuro?

  I did. I ran into a tree branch and they told me I had to replace the entire clamshell, which I did not. No, and the tree branch was like the size of like your face.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  That's a pretty big tree branch.

• 48:20Doug DeMuro?

  No, dude, your face is little. Little.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  One of our editors, Nick, is actually is heavily considering an A4 to replace his 996. And it's an appealing car.

• 48:30Doug DeMuro?

  It's an appealing car. I think they're really, really cool. I think they're floored in value. I think they look really nice.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  Oh, I this yellow just that.

• 48:37Doug DeMuro?

  You you know what? I like go back. There's that silver one in the corner down here. That one looks.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, on silver wheels. Yeah, that looks really great.

• 48:43Doug DeMuro?

  That one looks really nice. Can I have one of those?

• 48:45Speaker 01

  You know, it's a shame that only thirteen years after this came out, we're like, you know, the A4 is pretty good. Because when it came out, it was like, this is expensive. And who wants that getting a lease?

• 48:53Doug DeMuro?

  That's Lotus's problem. These are better used cars than they are new cars. Like, you know, nobody wants to spend ninety plus Camry engine. You know, all the things that were bad about it as a new car kind of started to become appealing as a used car. It's all it's got a Camry engine. Four seats. Oh, that's okay.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  So maybe Amira one day also get they all just like they all just live at thirty.

• 49:11Doug DeMuro?

  No, I think Amira will become desirable as it ages. It's just a hard sell at ninety plus for a lot of people. I actually think it's pretty desirable.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  I think it's a very desirable car personally.

• 49:18Doug DeMuro?

  And I thought that about a war too, honestly, but it's even more appealing here where it's thirty to forty grand and probably floored in value.

• 49:24Speaker 01

  If only Filippo would get a car, you get one of these. Like, I've said this before.

• 49:28Doug DeMuro?

  About it. We're not allowed to talk about it. The hard part about it is is that Filippo's hung up on the purchase price and I've begged him to understand that it's about total cost of ownership. He could buy and sell the car, get out of it in a year, spend no money. And he's like, no, it's too expensive. And so instead, he's going to get something dumb to lose his value.

• 49:41Speaker 02

  I'm probably not getting.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  I wish we had a tag to look at repeat offenders cars. We've had.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  Multiple times on cars and just to show him like it's sold for this and it's sold for this.

• 49:49Doug DeMuro?

  Well, actually, you know what you can do? Click on recently ended. I, I, this hit me yesterday is reason it came up. We sold this 32,000 miles to 41 to 36,000, 20,000 miles. Go to the very bottom. The very first Evora's we sold, like this one, 34,000, like they, they've lost a little value, but like not significant value. And it's clear that they're not going to really be losing much more. Obviously the ones that sold for 86.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Vortige T the 400, whatever.

• 50:12Doug DeMuro?

  But now they're getting cheaper and so you can, or they're getting older.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Right. Two years ago, 39.9.

• 50:17Doug DeMuro?

  Exactly.

• 50:18Speaker 02

  When they were different models.

• 50:19Doug DeMuro?

  These are Florida and they're cool. If you want to get a Cayman, but you, you've already had a Cayman. This is the kind of car to get. What's your market?

• 50:24Speaker 02

  Can you get a Lucid Air Sapphire, please?

• 50:26Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, let's talk Sapphire. All right.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  We sold a Lucid Air Sapphire for 200 grand. Stickers 250.

• 50:31Doug DeMuro?

  Stickers 250.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  We did a bunch of, there are no public Sapphire results before, before this one. So we did a bunch of research and like our team came up with a, because we went too deep in this, with a form of like, how much do other Lucid models appreciate, which is a lot. So that put the value of this after a year and whatever miles it has at like 160. That's like, this is exciting to me because it shows that the super high performance ones are still getting enough recognition that they're not following that same appreciation curve.

• 51:00Doug DeMuro?

  Tycons are. I, I was shocked by this result.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  This is better.

• 51:04Doug DeMuro?

  I was shocked by this.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. Also it has, it has miles, 3,000 something.

• 51:07Doug DeMuro?

  I will say, um.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  3,300.

• 51:10Doug DeMuro?

  I will say, this is a more special car than a Taycan Turbo or Turbo S. Those are very available. I have still not seen a Lucid Air Sapphire on the road.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Only when you had it here for, as a review.

• 51:19Doug DeMuro?

  And I see Lucid Airs pretty commonly.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I see them every day. Yeah, truly.

• 51:23Doug DeMuro?

  But Sapphire is really special.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  I legitimately think it's one of the coolest ones. The, the model has plaid, held value for a little bit.

• 51:30Doug DeMuro?

  And then.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, kind of appreciated. This has, I think, more that's special about it than, based on this result is, is helping your value.

• 51:38Doug DeMuro?

  True, super sports car. Everybody who, super performance sedan, sport, luxury, sport. Everybody who reviewed it was very positive, including me. I loved it. I thought it was absolutely amazing to drive and use. I feel that way about all the Lucid Airs, but the Sapphire is really cool. Production is somewhat limited, so.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Now, I mean, the person did lose $1,600 per mile they drove, but that's a, it's a different issue.

• 51:57Doug DeMuro?

  But that's kind of true of all 250,000. I mean, S-Class is everything in that segment. The Sapphire definitely did hold value better than a regular Lucid.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  Better than anybody else excited and was thrilled to see it.

• 52:06Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Okay. It's time for questions, questions, questions. Now remember, you too can ask us a question. You too, if Bono asked a question.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  I, I.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  You two could ask any questions.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. If Bono wants to text Doug directly, we'll put his phone number.

• 52:19Doug DeMuro?

  You know, Bono had a Quattroporte like Nick has.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  Oh, in period. That's so cool.

• 52:24Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Well, I was reading an interview where he talked about it. And so one of the things he liked about it is a his four door car and they named it the four door. This is only the Italians.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  We should do a video talking about like musicians' cars like that are famous, like famous.

• 52:35Doug DeMuro?

  Or Clapton and the Ferrari.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  Well, I was thinking Rod Stewart and all his Ferraris. Nick Mason.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Great. Can I?

• 52:41Speaker 01

  Nick Mason.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  This video. Thank you. Nick's a great person.

• 52:43Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay. So anyway, uh, questions, you can ask us questions. You click on carsandbids.com, click on it. You go to the community tab and then there'll be a post there saying, hey, ask us questions. This was the special holiday questions, which we're going to have next week.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:56Doug DeMuro?

  Next week, we're not doing like a news podcast. We're recording it early and we're just going to do questions, which we've already taken. So anyway, we're going to do this week's questions now. So let's go. The first question is, uh, from Rodney. This is a question we get sort of like it with some frequency, but I want to cover it again. Of all the auctions on Cars and Bids over the years that have been completed, what were the craziest buyers and sellers that you've had to deal with and what ended up happening with those auctions? There's never anything like too crazy. One dude sued us in small claims court. Remember that?

• 53:25Speaker 02

  I do.

• 53:26Doug DeMuro?

  And we defended it. The judge was like, you're an insane person.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  The, the, the guy wanted the buyer to send him Amazon gift cards. It was something truly insane. And we were like, no, we're not, we're not a part of this.

• 53:39Doug DeMuro?

  But that, that was probably one of them. But like, I didn't, nothing's ever been like insane. Has anything?

• 53:43Speaker 02

  There's been a lot of insane people.

• 53:45Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  Um, cause humans, turns out, like Kenan, are insane.

• 53:49Doug DeMuro?

  Right.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Uh, but not, not, nothing that's like coming immediately to mind.

• 53:52Doug DeMuro?

  My Land Cruiser too. Uh, but I don't, I can't think of any, I can't think of any really insane situations that have at least come to my attention. You've probably seen them, but if.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  I have seen a lot, but none that are like story worthy.

• 54:06Doug DeMuro?

  Crazy.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:07Doug DeMuro?

  It's usually like, eh, okay, this isn't, I'm crazy and here's what I might take and I'm, seller's crazy and the buyer's crazy. And we got to.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  I remember early on, some of the buyer's remorse was some of my favorite, where someone would say, oh, I left my laptop open at Starbucks. And somebody entered a bid. It's like, all right, all right. Your wife found out about the car, she's not happy and you're walking it back.

• 54:25Speaker 02

  There was a dude that bid on and bought a Focus RS and then he comes to us a couple of weeks later and says, I, I have a lot of back issues and I thought that this car would be perfect for me based on all the forums. And it turns out that I can't drive it. Can I list it back on Cars and Bids? Which isn't that crazy. I don't remember.

• 54:40Doug DeMuro?

  We do have people turn around cars quick.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  But it's like, my answer would have been, the Focus RS is still for sale. Go to your Ford dealer before you bid, maybe. Find out if it's a car for you before you spend fifty grand.

• 54:50Doug DeMuro?

  That is always something that really annoys us. We do get people sometimes being like, you know, this car had this or that or often, sometimes it's stuff that was disclosed. And then, but they see it the last day of the auction. They're like, oh, I got a bid. Then they bid and they're like, this, it has this scratch. It's like, I can see the scratch in all the pictures.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Always do your due diligence.

• 55:06Doug DeMuro?

  The reason the auction runs for a week is not because we think bids will be coming in for a week. The actual auction runs for five minutes. Let's be clear. The week is so that you can call the dude, you can send a buddy in to go look at the car. You can have a PPI done. You can get your financing and order all that stuff.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  Nothing. I, I wish there was something that like came to mind as like a really great story, but it's just normal people dealing with transactions.

• 55:30Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's a lot of normal people dealing with transactions and the pros and cons that come.

• 55:34Speaker 02

  And as I tell a lot of people, then we can move on from this. For a lot of folks, most expensive purchase I'll ever make is your house, probably. Second most expensive is probably a car. Like second most expensive category is probably a car. It's scary for people. And so you don't always get the best of humans, but then we're, we have a team that's there literally to walk you through how to do it.

• 55:51Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  And then it usually works out. We have really good support.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Their whole purpose is to share all the experience we've gained over almost 25,000 auctions. With people to maximize the value for cars.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  And they do it legitimately well.

• 56:03Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. Next question comes from I am him. Filippo, did you get run over by a Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2?

• 56:08Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  For those of you who can't see his shirt, he does look like he has a tire track across the sweater.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  I firmly believe that this Christmas is, this sweater is Christmasy.

• 56:18Doug DeMuro?

  Well, it's Christmas in the sense that he got hit, he got run over, the sweater got run over by a tire around Christmas time.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  Do you think that Santa sleigh has Michelin Pilot Sport 2?

• 56:26Doug DeMuro?

  Do you think that Santa sleigh, that looks like you got run over by a tire?

• 56:29Speaker 02

  Well, the question is, does the sleigh have?

• 56:32Doug DeMuro?

  No, it doesn't have tires.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  What do you think it was? It was pretty wide.

• 56:35Doug DeMuro?

  It's a wide tire.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  San Antonio Mercy?

• 56:36Doug DeMuro?

  Pilot sports, like a Carrera GT rear tire.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  Does look like.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  Well, we'll compare.

• 56:42Doug DeMuro?

  Not anytime soon.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 56:43Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, next question, actually, from I AM Him. Question for Doug, if you could make Ken and Filippo buy a car, what would you make them buy and why?

• 56:50Speaker 02

  If only Doug had that kind of influence.

• 56:52Doug DeMuro?

  I would make Filippo just like make a decision, you know, like step up and do the job.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  But what? What would I buy?

• 56:59Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, I'd make Ken buy an E60 M5.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:01Doug DeMuro?

  Really feel it, really feel it.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Why do you hate me?

• 57:04Doug DeMuro?

  I would make you get like something that's that I want you to get like I'd make you spend some money. Like realize what it's like to write a check.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  Diablo.

• 57:11Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, God. I've been trying to convince my friends here in San Diego to get a vintage Lambo for like two years.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  Every day.

• 57:18Doug DeMuro?

  And and no one will.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, it's a really expensive, unreliable.

• 57:23Doug DeMuro?

  But Nick's got a Mercy. It's not like I'm asking him to like to like jump off a bridge. He's he's he's two years away from what I'm trying to get him to do.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Maybe he likes the Mercy, you know?

• 57:32Doug DeMuro?

  I know, but if he had a Diablo, he'd have a Diablo.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  I understand. You've got a Countach. That's enough for us.

• 57:37Doug DeMuro?

  Ellis, I need someone to share this with me. I want someone to share this experience with me. And remember, Joe Sackey, I don't know any other Countach people. Like, I'm a therapist. I don't know anybody else.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Right. You you one up all of us by too much by having Countach at all. So you gotta instead one up somebody that gets a.

• 57:54Doug DeMuro?

  But the problem is, I don't want to be friends with any of those people. I hate all the other people who are rich.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, do you sure you want to know Countach?

• 58:00Doug DeMuro?

  No, I don't want anything to do with them. Okay, next question. Question for Porsche 32. Question for Kenan. Matt Farah recently mentioned writing a new article for Road and Track about how the CT5V Blackwing has been chasing the ghost of the E39M5 when BMW themselves and everyone else is not. Will you acknowledge the CT5V Blackwing is the true God's chariot and the spiritual successor to your E39M5? If not, Doug, can you set up with Ken with a demo car for a week to change his mind?

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Well, I.

• 58:24Doug DeMuro?

  It's happened already.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  So I have I have driven the CT5V.

• 58:27Doug DeMuro?

  Which was a demo car that I had. As I recall.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  Absolutely loved it. Manual one, it was blue. It was phenomenal. Loved the car. I have never, I've never seen a fuel gauge physically move while I'm driving it. It is unbelievable. You have real range anxiety driving a gasoline powered car, which is crazy. Yeah, but like the.

• 58:45Doug DeMuro?

  But so your thoughts on whether it's.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  It's not as well as a, it's not as well rounded of a car as that is because it just doesn't. There are, I mean, it gets like legitimately six miles of the gallon.

• 58:55Doug DeMuro?

  And it's also brutally fast in a way that the M5 is maybe a little bit more balanced.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  Second and third in that car are really fun to use for acceleration. That's where it's in the. And in the Cadillac there too, the difference is the speed is multiplied tremendously. And so it is a lot less usable in that regard. But I have to admit is, is one of my favorite cars I've ever driven. I loved it. I would love to have one in addition to that car, which I know is very redundant, but I'd have like the best and where it all ended in the end. And I can't believe the Cadillac of all manufacturers makes that.

• 59:23Doug DeMuro?

  And in the spirit of the question, I think we both agree that yes, it is the car.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  It's an empirically, yeah, absolutely. I think it goes like that car, you could say maybe the Audi B7 RS4 is very similar. Then came the Chevy SS, which a lot of people, you know, love.

• 59:39Doug DeMuro?

  I mean, there were a lot, for a while, there were a few.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  There were a lot of V8.

• 59:42Doug DeMuro?

  But it's kind of come to this.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  This is, yeah, it's the fact that that's a car, it's currently on sale is outrageous.

• 59:49Doug DeMuro?

  And that it's, it's actually a great car, like the GA.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  Great car.

• 59:52Doug DeMuro?

  The, the GA, though it was great, there were concessions made. It was quite big. The interior was not great. Pontiac wasn't our brand, you know.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  Same thing with the SS, same thing with the SS, the interior, like all the buttons.

• 1:00:02Doug DeMuro?

  Better. The interior's a little better.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  But the CT5.

• 1:00:04Doug DeMuro?

  However, the CT5 Blackwing is like the E305 in the sense that it is like the ultimate car that you really want. And it has the manual, the rear wheel drive.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  I'd actually argue it, and it's even more subtle. It does Blackwing in two places and there are little tags on the seats. That's it. You have to like really know.

• 1:00:20Doug DeMuro?

  Of course, you also know because you don't see any actual CT5, CT5s around, so.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  That's, well, that's true. It's San Diego. They.

• 1:00:25Doug DeMuro?

  I never see any of them.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Like.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  I just looked for you. You were talking about leasing a car, based on what I could see in a 30 second search. Coastal Blue Metallic Manual, leased for only $1,700 a month. Something to consider.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  I do want to see what they do in terms of, I mean, they're holding their value relatively strong. They really hold, but there's nothing else like it.

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  Nothing ever for sale. We've hosted surprisingly few.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Doug DeMuro?

  Right. Uh, next question from Q Sal. Hey Doug, hypothetically speaking, if the Ford GT slash Carrera GT value started to drastically plummet, would you sell the car to save yourself from losing money? Or do you keep it for the pure passion of what it is and what it offers? It's a good question. I, it's hard to imagine a scenario in which they would like drastically start to plummet in value. So it's hard to really put myself in the mindset of that. But I love the cars and I don't really need the cash, so I would probably keep them. Now, in this scenario you're talking about, maybe the whole world is dropped, maybe it's like oh eight again, or 1927.

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  What would you buy?

• 1:01:21Doug DeMuro?

  It's like oh nine again. Well, maybe nothing if I'm selling everything, panic selling everything. Um, but I really love the cars and they're what I want. And, um, it's hard to imagine. I, I kind of wish the Carrera GT was cheaper because it'd make it easier to use.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Same.

• 1:01:37Doug DeMuro?

  But like, you know, even though I bought it, like.

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  You, you've also bought carefully. So even in a world where something plummets, there, there is some intrinsic value to a car like that based on how many they've built, the specialness of it.

• 1:01:47Doug DeMuro?

  I agree with that. The, the new Countach intrinsic value is low. A Carrera GT V10 manual fastest car around Nürburgring in the whole world ever.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  Close enough.

• 1:01:57Doug DeMuro?

  That's, that's a car that's going to always be desired.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  Couple of seconds from being true.

• 1:02:01Doug DeMuro?

  And one of the stories I hear, some of the stories I hear from the guys who did make those purchases 20 years ago of the F40s for 200 grand, is that kind of thing. They bought cars that were special, that they loved, that they knew they would love and, and it worked out, but also they had something that they loved. And surely the stock market would have done better, et cetera, but they, they had this thing that they loved. And, and I think that's how you make that decision. And, and that's how I've made my decisions. The three sports cars that I have, I truly love them. And yeah, it would be sad if they lost value, but not as sad as if I lost them.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Exactly. At the end of the day, like, and that's what upset me for a while. And so many investment people are like buying cars and then like not using them, using them as commodities. It's a horrible investment, generally speaking. You can make way more money in other things. The difference is like, if you're passionate about these, like the goal should be to maybe not lose a ton of money on it.

• 1:02:46Doug DeMuro?

  If you can do money, it's a great benefit and some of them do. I think Carrera GT is not in a position where it's going to rise in value significantly for a long time. It had a big jump. I do not think those cars are going anywhere for a while.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Made a lot of them.

• 1:02:59Doug DeMuro?

  They made, they made, well, 1270s.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  That's a lot.

• 1:03:02Doug DeMuro?

  It was more a 40s. It was more Daytona.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Only by, only by a hundred, but yeah.

• 1:03:05Doug DeMuro?

  It was more Countach's. I don't think the production number is the problem. They, they, it's, it's pretty rare, especially compared to more modern supercars where production runs have now gotten considered.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  Well, they're out of control now.

• 1:03:16Doug DeMuro?

  But I think the problem is that it had a big run up and there's the people who have them having.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  You've already made the appreciation, the pressure already happened, but.

• 1:03:22Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay. Next question, final question.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:03:25Doug DeMuro?

  Final question. This is another question for Kenan. Luke 26. Uh, question for Kenan. They're all for Kenan, even the one that we, we're not getting to. Uh, question for Kenan. It's great.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Well, for Filippo.

• 1:03:35Doug DeMuro?

  There's not any questions for Filippo.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  That's really sad.

• 1:03:38Doug DeMuro?

  Folks, if you've got questions about electric vehicles or the, the car market, compact cars.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  I actually thought about coming to you. That's why I wanted to ask today about the leasing.

• 1:03:46Doug DeMuro?

  I will look for you. Don't worry. Question for Kenan. As a fellow Northeast Ohioan, are there any spots that you know of to spot cool cars? Dealership shows that.

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  Such a, so I actually, I've been kind of putting this together because I'm going to post it on Instagram soon, but like I was going back through, I'm from Hudson, Ohio, which is a small town between Cleveland and Akron. And in period, when I was growing up there, we had the craziest cars. I mean, nuts. We had, uh, there was a Carrera GT as bought new in my hometown. I have pictures of it at the gas station. Uh, I'd see Spiker C8, uh, Lamborghini Garota, Superleggera, uh, 997 dot one GT3 RS in green. Like there were, and this was a regular thing. You'd bike to downtown Hudson. There'd be just crazy cars. All, all the time, every single Friday on some, in summer, you knew.

• 1:04:30Doug DeMuro?

  Was this, was this over at Aladdin's?

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Uh, there is, there, there is an Aladdin's and I did, I have pictures.

• 1:04:36Doug DeMuro?

  Hudson fix? Like where would you see the car? Like at flip side?

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  The guy at the Carrera GT always filled up at BP and it's because he went in to buy cigarettes there and he would leave and like that.

• 1:04:44Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, that parker is your teeth.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  I don't think he smoked in it. I think, I think he still has the car also.

• 1:04:49Doug DeMuro?

  You're talking about the BP at Main Street there at Ravenna?

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  That's correct. That's right. Right off of, yep. Right off of 91.

• 1:04:56Doug DeMuro?

  But by yours truly.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Yes, by yours truly. Recently, recently revamped, nice rooftop.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  I go back to Hudson with some regularity, but no, my, my answer for him, not anymore. It's changed. Like now they're just like Audi S cars. The places I would go, uh, Chagrin Falls is really, really, there's, it's a very wealthy area. And every time I go there, I see nice cars, even now that has not changed.

• 1:05:19Doug DeMuro?

  Nice cars like what? People in Chagrin Falls?

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  BMW Z8, uh, I've seen, uh, SLS Black Series. I've seen a lot of really good cars. But the thing you should do in all honesty, Elson, is like, go to Marshall Goldman. Like the Marshall Goldman, but it has just incredible inventory, um, and, but it's like going to a car show. Like truly, just be very polite, you know, don't touch anything. Obviously be very nice, but, um, that's the place to go. I mean, that's the place to go. But if you want to see them in the wild, I would say Chagrin Falls is your best bet.

• 1:05:46Doug DeMuro?

  Where's the triple F collection?

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  They're in Columbus. That's a different thing.

• 1:05:50Doug DeMuro?

  Do they, is there like a Carson coffee that like, do we know them? Is there Carson coffee that they go to?

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Uh, I, I've met them. They hold a big event every year. I think in June, usually, um, and they have some, they've had some more stuff. They had some stuff from Mouse Motors collection in Chicago. They have several McLaren F1s. They sent their stuff there. It was, that's a, and that is a wild show to go to, I have to say.

• 1:06:07Doug DeMuro?

  For being as into cars as I am, not my world.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I understand.

• 1:06:11Doug DeMuro?

  We know.

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  For you, Felipe, the local Toyota dealership would be enough, I think. But it is.

• 1:06:17Doug DeMuro?

  By the way, did you see all the comments when you were naming Toyota SUVs? You forgot the lowercase b, uppercase Z for uppercase X.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  I don't consider that an SUV.

• 1:06:23Doug DeMuro?

  They do. Gotta be honest.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  Felipe doesn't consider, but that's my answer is.

• 1:06:26Doug DeMuro?

  There is Kenan's top tips on car spotting in Northeast Ohio, in the greater Cuyahoga County area. I don't actually.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  It's a summit technically. Yeah.

• 1:06:35Doug DeMuro?

  Same, you know? Uh, all right. That's our podcast. It was the finest one we've ever done. Thank you for tuning in. Remember next week is our special Christmas episode where we're primarily just doing questions. Plus we have a special guest. Let's do it. I don't know what that means. Goodbye, everyone.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Goodbye.