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Welcome to THIS CAR POD! Doug DeMuro & Friends offers weekly expert insight and opinion, on the breaking automotive stories, the car market, and audience Q&A.
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Transcript 15,142 words · 4 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Speaker 00 Born in Texas, made in America, that's Valero. Keeping America moving, rain or shine, day or night, 365 days a year. Giving back to our communities and helping businesses thrive. We're proud to fuel the people who keep this country moving. So whether you're exploring new roads or heading down ones you know, we're here, fueling drives coast to coast. Proudly American, proudly getting you where you need to be. Right now, Valero.
0:34 Doug DeMuro? Hello and welcome to this car pod.
0:37 Speaker 02 I'm Kenan.
0:38 Speaker 03 I'm Felipe.
0:38 Doug DeMuro? And let's just get into it. Start it off Jaguar. Jaguar, we're going to start with the news and talk Jaguar. Jaguar has rebranded and can we play the video? Let's just play the video. Felipe hasn't seen it yet.
0:51 Speaker 02 There's sound evidently.
0:52 Speaker 03 There's sound, there is sound. Yeah, I watched it.
1:04 Speaker 03 Oh, I hate every single part of this.
1:05 Doug DeMuro? Let it play. It's gonna, it might change your mind later. It might be different.
1:11 Speaker 03 British. Right.
1:21 Speaker 03 All right, two, two main issues. First of all, live vivid. There's a lot of adverbs that should have been used that were not.
1:27 Doug DeMuro? Live vivid dude.
1:28 Speaker 03 Which bothers me every single day in normal life and especially bothers me here. And also copy nothing.
1:33 Doug DeMuro? Don't you mean every single D day?
1:38 Doug DeMuro? Okay, can I tell you, this is, this Jaguar revealed this yesterday. They also deleted all of their previous social media posts and posted this. Like their whole Instagram was, they deleted every post, like post by post. Like they hired some dude to delete, delete, delete overnight. Like, and nobody noticed because Jaguar. And then they post this, like the morning.
1:56 Speaker 03 Yeah, right.
1:57 Doug DeMuro? It was on Twitter, it was on all the places.
1:59 Speaker 03 Yeah, I saw the news. I just hadn't bothered to watch the video.
2:02 Doug DeMuro? Well, now you've seen it.
2:03 Speaker 03 It was all back in time.
2:04 Doug DeMuro? It was enormously criticized.
2:07 Speaker 02 As one can imagine.
2:09 Doug DeMuro? Okay, I got a different take.
2:11 Speaker 03 Of course, you loved it.
2:12 Doug DeMuro? I didn't love it, but like. It ain't working. What's been happening the last hundred years.
2:19 Speaker 03 Certainly.
2:19 Doug DeMuro? Do you get what I'm saying? Like, this is the worst of the worst car company, like, being totally honest. They could leave tomorrow and no one would really.
2:26 Speaker 03 They aren't selling cars this year.
2:28 Doug DeMuro? They're literally not selling cars this year.
2:31 Speaker 03 Right.
2:32 Doug DeMuro? They're like twenty-five.
2:33 Speaker 03 The, they can only go up. Regardless of what they do, they can only go up.
2:37 Doug DeMuro? I think it's stupid and insane, but like, the, the, it, it, the, the previous, you remember in the past when they were trying to sell cars using normal marketing with normal cars? That didn't work. They didn't sell cars.
2:50 Speaker 03 Stakes are, although they actually had.
2:51 Doug DeMuro? Stakes are low, yeah.
2:52 Speaker 03 They actually had some great years when they first released the XF and the XJ and the X. The, the, the, the, the F-Pace. But then they released no new cars for a decade.
3:03 Doug DeMuro? There was, well, that was one of the issues. But I think also just the brand has gotten stale. No one really knows what it's supposed to be. Then they tried to pivot to electric with one electric car.
3:12 Speaker 02 And now they've pivoted to cosmetics. Like, it's really difficult.
3:15 Doug DeMuro? It's, it's weird as hell and not good, but like, and everybody's pissed online. This is, this is not Jaguar. This is not what Jaguar is supposed to be. And it's like, I think that's the point, guys. Cause I think what Jaguar is supposed to be has kind of continuously failed for my entire lifetime. Like, I'm not exaggerating.
3:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
3:33 Doug DeMuro? They did that music video with Sting and that guy who killed somebody and I, I just feel.
3:37 Speaker 03 Bond movies is Jag, that's it.
3:39 Doug DeMuro? There was that too. Madonna did one with the green XKR.
3:42 Speaker 03 Oh, really?
3:42 Doug DeMuro? There was.
3:43 Speaker 03 I was thinking a little bit more recently.
3:44 Doug DeMuro? Ford owned Jag. There was a Bond movie where there was a Ford owned Aston Martin. There was a Vanquish. There was an XKR which Ford owned. And then there was a Thunderbird in that same movie.
3:52 Speaker 03 I remember the Thunderbird vividly.
3:53 Doug DeMuro? Pinkish red.
3:54 Speaker 03 Also, like, in all of them, M drives around in an XJ, all the more recent ones. But what does this mean?
4:01 Doug DeMuro? It means that there's something new coming. I'm not gonna defend it. I think it's stupid too, but I also think like, let's just kind of let them do it. Because for the first time in automotive history, people are talking about Jaguar. People have not talked about Jaguar this much since the E-Type was shown at the Paris Motor Show in nineteen fifty-nine and people were beating down Steven Jaguar's door to hand him deposits. I'm not, I'm not kidding. Like, am I wrong?
4:24 Speaker 03 No.
4:24 Speaker 02 You're not. And the other thing about this is like they knew they had to do something inflammatory.
4:28 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
4:29 Speaker 02 And realistically, the only way to get people to talk about it is to be negative. The Cybertruck was kind of that way at work, and we talked about that for nine months.
4:35 Doug DeMuro? Right.
4:35 Speaker 02 Here we are talking about this, so it was successful in that regard.
4:39 Doug DeMuro? Video with like black lights and like Jaguar and then a picture of the leaping cat. And no one would say a thing.
4:45 Speaker 03 The difference is that nobody's gonna talk about this starting tomorrow.
4:47 Doug DeMuro? Well, we're talking about it today.
4:49 Speaker 03 Three days.
4:49 Speaker 02 Right. Well, they keep rolling this stuff. I think the next update comes December 2nd is when they said there's gonna be the next update.
4:54 Speaker 03 What does that mean?
4:55 Speaker 02 No, no.
4:56 Doug DeMuro? They're gonna reveal a new car at an art show.
4:59 Speaker 03 At least a new car would be notable.
5:01 Speaker 02 Some fashion exhibit in Berlin is what this whole thing looked like.
5:04 Speaker 03 Will it be a new car?
5:07 Speaker 02 Very, yeah.
5:07 Speaker 03 Is there actually a new car in development?
5:09 Doug DeMuro? New concept car. Look, I think my point is just, I think it's stupid, just like everybody else thinks it's stupid. But like, this company is bad, they are not succeeding, and for the first time, people are talking about them. And so like, I'm gonna let it play out. I'm just gonna let it play out and see what happens.
5:24 Speaker 02 They took that break to go teach skiing, you know, between college, and they're experimenting with stuff.
5:29 Doug DeMuro? And they're experimenting, yeah.
5:30 Speaker 02 And look at this guy, he's excited about it.
5:33 Speaker 03 Here's what I don't get.
5:34 Speaker 02 This guy's thrilled.
5:35 Speaker 03 First of all, Jaguar should learn to copy a lot of things if they want to be good, first of all. Copying nothing, wrong, wrong model fit. But, but much, much more important than that, like,
5:47 Speaker 03 they, they, they spent surely millions on this video and on this reveal.
5:53 Doug DeMuro? Well, I don't.
5:54 Speaker 03 They've revealed nothing.
5:55 Doug DeMuro? Did they spend millions?
5:57 Speaker 03 Yes.
5:57 Doug DeMuro? Let me, let me counterpoint. All they did was two things. They hired these folks who I better not busy
6:05 Doug DeMuro? to walk, right? These clothes can't be expensive. That's, she's wearing like a garbage bag kind of situation. This is a rug. And they deleted all their social media posts, which you and I could have done in an hour. If they were gonna spend millions, I would have done it. I would have done that for 800 grand.
6:18 Speaker 03 There's no doubt that they spent millions on this campaign. And I just don't like Scout, which is a brand that is a revival of an old, old brand that nobody's talked about in a century.
6:27 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
6:27 Speaker 03 Did a big reveal. They got a ton of earned media by showing cars.
6:31 Doug DeMuro? Yes.
6:32 Speaker 03 Turns out that if you show cars that people might be interested in, you can get needed coverage.
6:35 Doug DeMuro? Jaguar's gonna do that too. But they've already they've already captured our attentions. Now, everybody's sitting here. Everybody who complained about this is sitting here thinking, what the hell are these guys gonna do?
6:43 Speaker 03 No, cuz it doesn't have the staying power.
6:46 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean, he is.
6:47 Speaker 03 No, no car will connect to this ad campaign unless it's a Golf Harlequin.
6:51 Doug DeMuro? Maybe it'll be, maybe they'll do a Golf Harlequin. Maybe they'll do a XJ220 revival.
6:59 Speaker 02 No, that'd be cool. I don't, I don't, I don't know.
7:01 Speaker 03 It'll be electric, it'll be, I don't know what, but it doesn't.
7:03 Speaker 02 Maybe it was in the video, we didn't see it.
7:05 Speaker 03 Ooh.
7:06 Speaker 02 Maybe it was that pink rock.
7:07 Speaker 03 Watch it again.
7:09 Speaker 02 Maybe that's what it was.
7:09 Doug DeMuro? Look, I think that you're all missing the point.
7:11 Speaker 03 How many views does this unlisted video have?
7:13 Speaker 02 It's.
7:14 Speaker 03 It is unlisted.
7:15 Speaker 02 What?
7:16 Speaker 03 4.9 thousand. So they're very successful ad campaign.
7:19 Doug DeMuro? Watch it on YouTube. I watched it on other platforms. I haven't seen it on YouTube yet.
7:22 Speaker 02 But, you know, I mean, it could have, I mean, maybe that's it.
7:25 Doug DeMuro? Create exuberantly, creatively exuberant.
7:28 Speaker 03 No, no, that's not, that's not, I fully get it said either of those things.
7:30 Doug DeMuro? Is that a tire? Wait, go back here. Go back to the, she's wearing a tire. That's a clue. Look, all I'm saying is, all I'm saying is, people are hating this. I get why they're hating it. It's really stupid. But I think it has gotten our attention in a way that Jaguar has not gotten our attention in a long time. And I think there are marketers out there who are like, yeah, that was the plan. And now you're curious. Admitted, if they had just done a stupid, boring campaign, you'd be like, eh, Jaguar, whatever.
7:53 Speaker 03 Had they, had they come out and said, we're changing a lot of our tactics. Here's our new design language. Here's the direction we're gonna go in.
7:59 Doug DeMuro? But that's what Filippo would do. And Filippo only does like the basics.
8:03 Speaker 03 Who buys Jaguars if not people like Filippo?
8:05 Doug DeMuro? But the point is, they want new people. They want people like Kenan. They, right now, they got people like you.
8:10 Speaker 03 Well, they're gonna reveal a city-sized luxury EV, probably.
8:15 Doug DeMuro? I want to see an X, an electric XJ220.
8:19 Speaker 02 I wanna see an electric rock, cuz that's what we're thinking, I think we might be getting here. Or whatever cosmetics they come out with.
8:24 Doug DeMuro? Wearing a tire. I'm just saying. And this fellow looks like a road worker. Maybe it's a construction vehicle.
8:29 Speaker 02 AA yellow.
8:30 Doug DeMuro? AA yellow. Okay, so we gotta move on from Jaguar and we must move to?
8:35 Speaker 02 Jaguar.
8:35 Doug DeMuro? Jaguar. Now, this is apparently a, this is gonna be the car that they announced.
8:40 Speaker 03 A car exists.
8:41 Doug DeMuro? They're gonna release it at Miami Art Week, which is in a couple of weeks.
8:44 Speaker 03 Which we all know is the beginning of December.
8:46 Doug DeMuro? You know, I'm sure. You've been there a bunch of times.
8:49 Speaker 03 Haven't been, but dreamed of it.
8:50 Doug DeMuro? That's the point, though. They're gonna show this thing. It's called the Jaguar Design Vision Concept. And apparently, the goal is to bring the Jaguar brand upscale. They're talking about $100,000-plus EVs.
9:02 Speaker 03 Here's the thing, the Jaguar brand was upscale. They spent 20 years. Moving to like less premium.
9:09 Doug DeMuro? They regret that.
9:10 Speaker 03 Or premiums at a luxury.
9:11 Doug DeMuro? They regret the fact that they came out with the E-Pace at a 299 lease deal.
9:14 Speaker 03 And that they didn't name it as I-Pace.
9:16 Doug DeMuro? As long as you walked in with a mop as a trade-in.
9:18 Speaker 03 What do you think XE lease deals are?
9:20 Doug DeMuro? They're the car.
9:21 Speaker 03 Twenty?
9:21 Doug DeMuro? That car's long gone. We don't think about the X anymore. We got a new thing.
9:24 Speaker 03 Got a new thing. And it looks like it could be cool.
9:26 Doug DeMuro? It could be cool.
9:27 Speaker 02 Looks like a Chrysler 300 wagon to me.
9:29 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, but that was cool. That was cool.
9:31 Speaker 03 With new seven series front.
9:33 Doug DeMuro? It does look like a Chrysler. If you pop this off, this is a Chrysler 300.
9:36 Speaker 02 Yeah.
9:36 Doug DeMuro? Maybe they're gonna come back with a Chrysler 300.
9:38 Speaker 02 If you bemoan the loss of the Chrysler 300, turns out there's a $250,000 thing.
9:42 Doug DeMuro? Like, who?
9:42 Speaker 03 You think it's gonna be 250?
9:43 Speaker 02 If they're really trying to move upscale like Bentley, yeah.
9:46 Doug DeMuro? The goal is to move upmarket. 100,000 plus is kind of what's been floated. I don't know about Bentley.
9:51 Speaker 02 Bentley is bold.
9:52 Speaker 03 Here's what I don't get. Okay, go back aside because this is their new logo.
9:56 Doug DeMuro? Their new logo. The G is uppercase.
9:58 Speaker 03 That's a good point.
9:59 Doug DeMuro? The J might be.
10:01 Speaker 03 The rest is not.
10:02 Speaker 02 The rest is not.
10:03 Speaker 03 The U could be, to be fair.
10:05 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
10:07 Speaker 03 Jaguar, okay, when you think luxury, especially in the US, you think British brands.
10:13 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
10:13 Speaker 03 They've un-Britishfied all of their history.
10:16 Doug DeMuro? You're missing the point. And I think, I think a lot of low effort Instagram commenters are missing the point too. That's the point. That's what they're trying to do. They're, they're, they're untethering from their previous reputation completely. And they're going to Miami Art Week with a, with a GT car that's gonna cost 200 grand and be electric, and they got a lowercase a.
10:37 Speaker 02 Right. They're trying to move out of Coventry and into London. That's what, that's the kind of move they wanna go for. They want to be more modern and cool British.
10:44 Doug DeMuro? I think they're trying to move out of Coventry into like Prague or Berlin. Prague, something like that. Something a little edgier.
10:49 Speaker 02 Edgy, yeah, exactly.
10:50 Speaker 03 For all the edgy people in Berlin that have 100 plus thousand euro.
10:55 Doug DeMuro? Well, there are a couple of wealthy people in Berlin.
10:58 Speaker 02 I, I think that this looks like it's, they're, maybe they're gonna make refrigerators.
11:01 Speaker 03 Oh, I was, I was thinking like a mid-scale hotel.
11:04 Doug DeMuro? No, it's, it looks like a garage door in a, in a, in an industrial area.
11:07 Speaker 02 All plausible things, by the way.
11:08 Doug DeMuro? You're losing the point. That's what they're trying to do. They wanna get your attention. Okay, we've spent way too long on this. I'm moving off Jaguar.
11:15 Speaker 02 Right, our next story. Speaking of Jaguar.
11:19 Doug DeMuro? What is this?
11:19 Speaker 02 So this is kind of an interesting Resto mod thing. So TWR, Tom Walkenshaw Racing, is making a tribute to the XJS, a very...
11:27 Doug DeMuro? You didn't know that?
11:28 Speaker 02 Of course, of course he didn't know that. Sleep, go back to sleep. This car is gonna be called the Supercat. But it is cool. So it has a supercharged 5.6 liter V12, 660 horsepower, and 6-speed manual transmission.
11:45 Doug DeMuro? This isn't, it's not the V12 that was in it before. It's some...
11:49 Speaker 02 Maybe in cylinder count only.
11:52 Doug DeMuro? It looks so cool.
11:53 Speaker 02 It's been pretty beefed up. One might say, man, the presentation is beautiful. But in addition to that, like, the body obviously is pretty extreme. Full carbon body. It's 20 centimeters wider than the normal car.
12:04 Doug DeMuro? I mean, look at those flaps.
12:05 Speaker 02 I know. And it weighs substantially less, too. This thing weighs 3,500 pounds compared to the original. 3,900 pounds. And they weren't trying to save...
12:13 Doug DeMuro? And they were light at the time.
12:14 Speaker 02 Yeah, exactly. So another notable thing about the design, Magnus Walker and Kaiser Saleem worked on the design of this particular car. And so they, which, again, Magnus Walker, known for Porsches, so kind of unusually...
12:25 Doug DeMuro? And design, though. I mean...
12:26 Speaker 02 I mean, I guess, but when you think him, I think long hair, Porsches. That's what I think of. Like, that's what I think.
12:31 Doug DeMuro? And now you think V12 power Resto mods.
12:33 Speaker 02 Yeah, TWR thinks that he should help with this.
12:35 Doug DeMuro? I think it's cool as hell.
12:36 Speaker 02 It's very cool. So...
12:38 Doug DeMuro? Of all the Resto mods, and almost all of them have been like yoners, like Singer. This is cool. Yeah.
12:47 Speaker 02 But yes, it's gonna cost 285,000 American dollars.
12:50 Doug DeMuro? That's not that insane.
12:51 Speaker 02 And they're gonna build 88. I think what that means, they're gonna attempt to build 88. And they're allegedly gonna start delivering them in 2025.
12:57 Doug DeMuro? 285,000?
12:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, 285.
13:00 Doug DeMuro? Sign up. That's insane. That's a cool looking car.
13:02 Speaker 02 It's a lot for an XJS.
13:03 Doug DeMuro? It's a cool looking car. I can't get an XJ220 for that money. You gotta stick V12 for 285? Huh? I like it. Does it have a warranty?
13:12 Speaker 03 I'm interested in it as a warranty.
13:14 Speaker 02 But evidently Matt Farah got to hear this thing recently and he said on Instagram that it sounds like a mercy when you start it and he like actually seemed pretty excited about the car. So I'm kind of curious. I'm sure we'll see it at Car Week and stuff like that, but.
13:24 Speaker 03 I think it's cool as hell.
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15:04 Speaker 03 Okay, next one, next one.
15:08 Speaker 00 Born in Texas, made in America, that's Valero. Keeping America moving, rain or shine, day or night, 365 days a year. Giving back to our communities and helping businesses thrive. We're proud to fuel the people who keep this country moving. So whether you're exploring new roads or heading down ones you know, we're here, fueling drives coast to coast. Proudly American, proudly getting you where you need to be. Right now, Valero.
15:36 Speaker 02 Finally not Jaguar.
15:38 Speaker 03 Finally not Jaguar.
15:38 Doug DeMuro? I don't want it, this is a boring news.
15:40 Speaker 03 I know, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll spend one minute or less.
15:42 Speaker 02 All right, ready, go.
15:43 Speaker 03 The current CEO of Volkswagen North America has left. He's now the past CEO, as of yesterday. And they have a new CEO who was formerly at Porsche and at Rivian.
15:51 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
15:52 Speaker 03 There you go.
15:52 Doug DeMuro? There you go.
15:53 Speaker 03 All right.
15:53 Doug DeMuro? That story.
15:55 Speaker 03 But we're just getting more and more interesting from here. So you will regret having cut that story short.
15:58 Doug DeMuro? This is a great story.
15:59 Speaker 03 All right, this is a Lexus RZ.
16:01 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
16:01 Speaker 03 It's, it's the Toyota BZ4X or Subarus Solterra of Lexus.
16:05 Doug DeMuro? It's, it's, it's better than those two, but that's not saying.
16:08 Speaker 03 It has a, a.
16:09 Doug DeMuro? Some of them do.
16:10 Speaker 03 Some of them have a Model S-esque steering wheel.
16:12 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:13 Speaker 03 Yo, what's the word?
16:14 Doug DeMuro? What's it called?
16:15 Speaker 03 All right.
16:15 Doug DeMuro? Yo.
16:16 Speaker 03 Thanks.
16:18 Speaker 03 They cut the price of the BZ, of the RZ, the base model, by $11,000.
16:24 Doug DeMuro? Ha, where's it start at?
16:26 Speaker 03 Forty-three.
16:26 Doug DeMuro? Oh my God, that's still $28,000 too much.
16:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, but it is now the same price as a BZ4X. Now, we all assumed the BZ4X will have a similar price cut. And of course, the BZ4X at the dealership, out the doors, 20 grand less than what they're asking.
16:40 Doug DeMuro? What would you, what would it take to get you into a BZ4X? Ugly, poor range, poor performance, like, it's just quite bad. What would it take to get you into BZ4X?
16:49 Speaker 03 If they, by the way, I'm sorry, lowercase b, uppercase Z, for, uppercase X.
16:52 Speaker 02 Toyota has to bring it to his house.
16:54 Speaker 03 And it needs to be $20 a month or less. Which, which, by the way, Fiat la- last week had a lease deal that was about $40 a month.
17:03 Doug DeMuro? Wait, you wouldn't do it at 35 a month for a BZ4X?
17:06 Speaker 03 No, I don't want that hassle. But it is really normal. They're coming to price $11,000 on a car that came out two years ago, and they're matching BZ4X prices, which, so BZ4X prices are probably also gonna fall some amount to make up for that.
17:18 Doug DeMuro? I just don't understand. These automakers had Tesla to benchmark. I was at the, I went to the Lexus RZ launch.
17:23 Speaker 03 Did you really?
17:23 Doug DeMuro? They did here in San Diego. And I, I just couldn't understand it then. They had Tesla to benchmark. They knew what the, what the benchmark was for range and performance and price tag. And instead, they come out with this whose performance is laughable in comparison and range. The RZ's range is better. The BZ4X range is trash.
17:41 Speaker 03 The all-wheel-drive BZ4X, the higher, the all-wheel-drive RZs, the higher trims have less than 200 miles range.
17:47 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, but they had some good horsepower number.
17:49 Speaker 03 No, that's not acceptable.
17:50 Doug DeMuro? It was like 350 or something. It's not acceptable. I totally agree.
17:53 Speaker 03 People will buy them because you go to a Lexus dealership, you want an EV, where are you gonna buy this?
17:58 Doug DeMuro? And that's the only sales. Toyota's pursuing this electrification strategy very, like they pursue other strategies, which is very slowly and carefully. But the consumers are not. They're buying the best, the nicest, the fastest, the mo- and, and I literally went to a, I can't remember which automaker told me they, they had limited the performance of their EV because they didn't want people to be like, surprised. And it's like, this is not how it works. People are expecting 0-60 in 2.8 seconds for like 40 Gs. It's what Tesla does. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't deliver Tesla level range, performance, pricing, there's no point. There's no point. And none of them can. None of them can. The Mach-E is close, but none of the others can do it.
18:36 Speaker 03 The Mach-E is close. The Lucid Air is close to Model S performance and price point.
18:40 Doug DeMuro? But it's expensive as fuck.
18:41 Speaker 03 Rivian's are not that they're similar from Model X. There, there are competitors in the space. The Ioniq 5 is very close to Model 3.
18:49 Doug DeMuro? Cars that deliver other things that Tesla doesn't. And Rivian is one of them. It can off-road. It looks way better. It's obviously bigger inside.
18:55 Speaker 03 Ioniq 5 EV6 are in the right ballpark.
18:58 Doug DeMuro? Generally speaking, though, a lot of these EVs, if you just look at it on paper, it's like, why would I ever consider this trash? That's one of the reasons I think it's so insane that Tesla opened up their charge network to all these other companies. Because like you had this massive advantage and this other massive advantage.
19:12 Speaker 03 I mean, it's not a mistake in that it's probably good for EV adoption, but it is rough. By the way, this now is about the same price as the basis Lexus NX.
19:20 Doug DeMuro? Really? Well, I'd still rather have the NX. With this said, speaking of EVs, yesterday here in the studio, we had some Chinese cars.
19:31 Speaker 03 Yes.
19:31 Doug DeMuro? Automobiles manufactured in China. Their VIN started with L.
19:35 Speaker 03 Really?
19:36 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
19:36 Speaker 03 I didn't know those Chinese VINs.
19:37 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. And here's the deal. One of them was a convertible sports car from the storied MG brand.
19:44 Speaker 03 Can you pull it up? Can the MG?
19:47 Doug DeMuro? It's called the Cyberster. It is not called the Cybersteer, which is what I thought it was called.
19:52 Speaker 03 Good catch.
19:53 Doug DeMuro? And then also we had the Xiaomi SU7. You, I'm sure, are well aware.
19:57 Speaker 03 I am, of course. Jim Farley was driving around.
19:58 Doug DeMuro? This car was in our office yesterday. Yesterday!
20:01 Speaker 03 It was so cool. Legitimately.
20:03 Doug DeMuro? Is it? Anyway.
20:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, it was. Wait, can you find a picture of the taillights?
20:08 Doug DeMuro? I gotta tell you.
20:08 Speaker 03 Doug did a full video, so everybody will get to enjoy it.
20:11 Doug DeMuro? I got big videos coming with the SU7, SU7, and the MG Cyberster.
20:16 Speaker 02 The actual era, I have to say, I didn't know what to expect, to be honest with you, when you said you were gonna do these. I actually thought it was pretty cool, to be honest.
20:24 Doug DeMuro? It looks good. I've sent the picture to a bunch of people. Everyone I sent it to is like, that thing looks good.
20:28 Speaker 03 And the SU7 also looks good.
20:30 Doug DeMuro? The SU7 is what we say.
20:31 Speaker 03 Sure, yeah, sorry.
20:32 Doug DeMuro? In China. And we felt that it looked good also.
20:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
20:35 Doug DeMuro? We, myself, the party. Anyway.
20:40 Doug DeMuro? No, legitimately, though, there's this perception among American consumers that Chinese cars are kinda, or that Chinese goods are kinda crappy because we've ordered stuff on Amazon and it's cheap plastic stuff and it comes from China. And we drive these cars, I drove these cars around like San Diego yesterday, and they were great. They drove great. They existed great. They have some great quirks and features.
21:01 Speaker 02 Well, I thought it, nice. I thought it was fascinating to look at because we had a Cybertruck in the office last week. Panel gaps, not particularly great. Build quality, not particularly nice.
21:11 Doug DeMuro? Oh, it's made of stainless steel, man.
21:12 Speaker 02 Right, well, that one was gold. But this one, this one, the-
21:15 Doug DeMuro? It was nice.
21:15 Speaker 02 It was nice.
21:16 Doug DeMuro? It was well made.
21:16 Speaker 02 And I think that speaks to-
21:17 Doug DeMuro? Did you sit in it?
21:18 Speaker 02 I did. It felt nice.
21:19 Doug DeMuro? Felt good.
21:20 Speaker 02 I think one thing to keep in mind, A, it's amazing how far the Chinese have come in such a short period of time.
21:24 Doug DeMuro? Couple of years. Xiaomi, the people who brought us the SU7, they were making smartphones in 21, not a single car. Smartphones, 21.
21:32 Speaker 02 Wow.
21:32 Doug DeMuro? Here we are in 24, they got the SU7. By the way, that SU7 set the all-time Nürburgring lap record for a four-door car. The SU7 Ultra, which has 1500 horsepower.
21:42 Speaker 03 He had the Max here.
21:43 Doug DeMuro? I had the Max, which strangely is the mid-range model. Some naming issues.
21:50 Speaker 03 Well, to be fair, Apple had the same naming structure with their chips.
21:55 Speaker 02 It was a time to their smartphone heritage.
21:57 Doug DeMuro? And that's, by the way, when we got the spec list, which was sent to us not on Google Docs, but on Faishu Docs, I'm sure you know.
22:06 Speaker 02 Oh, very familiar.
22:07 Doug DeMuro? A lot of the specs, like, it talks about processor. Like, you know how you would send a spec list for a Lincoln, and it would be like 28-inch screen and V6 and all-wheel drive? This was like 2800 boobleflob Qualcomm processor, and I'm like, okay. I didn't realize that was part of a car.
22:25 Speaker 02 Dang, it had the blue flob, boobleflob.
22:28 Doug DeMuro? It had a 2800 boobleflob.
22:30 Speaker 02 Wow, overclocked.
22:30 Doug DeMuro? Obviously.
22:33 Speaker 02 The other point I want to make that is, yes, they've come up very quickly, but also, this comes from a nation that is very good at manufacturing. They have really honed their processes, so it's not really a surprise that things are like well put together and the panel gaps are tight. And like, they seem to figure that out very, very quickly.
22:49 Speaker 03 Also, the Chinese government is part of a lot of manufacturing, required there to be joint partnerships. And whenever any manufacturer started building cars in China for the Chinese market, or otherwise, it was actually part of a joint manufacturing effort.
22:59 Doug DeMuro? Now, I don't want to be-
23:00 Speaker 03 They told a lot of those learnings.
23:01 Doug DeMuro? I don't want to get into the politics.
23:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:04 Doug DeMuro? Because I don't want Filippo to cry, and I don't want Kennedy to tell us about how Emily's dad was there on January 6th.
23:11 Speaker 02 He was not there.
23:11 Doug DeMuro? Uh, but-
23:17 Doug DeMuro? He was there in my mind, but I will say that these cars are heavily tariffed and they're probably not going to come to the US. Even my beautiful, my beloved SU7, not even the SU5, not even the SUFLA will make it to the US. But, um, but
23:35 Speaker 03 It's such a long episode.
23:36 Doug DeMuro? When you think about the Koreans and how long it, and how they were able to make the strides, Hyundai came to the US in 86, Kia came in 95. Within 15 years, they were there.
23:49 Speaker 03 25.
23:50 Doug DeMuro? It took Volkswagen 65 years to make products that are acceptable, and I would argue there's still not. Like, have you been in an Atlas Cross Sport? And, but the Chinese are already like caught up. It's amazing how quickly this happened. Part of it is they don't have to go through the trouble of developing engines.
24:09 Speaker 03 Which makes a huge difference.
24:11 Doug DeMuro? And the thing that's successful for these cars is tech, and they can do tech. Tech is pretty easy to do. And the Cyberster had like 18 screens.
24:20 Speaker 03 Right. How was the driving experience?
24:22 Doug DeMuro? It was okay.
24:23 Speaker 03 I know you'll talk about it way more depth.
24:24 Doug DeMuro? I'll talk about it more in depth in my review video coming to the Doug DeMuro. It was okay. It was pretty, the handling was pretty good considering it weighs 4,000 pounds. The steering got light at high speeds. Like it clearly, the Chinese are not known for high-performance vehicles or for track. They don't have a lot of Chinese F1 drivers.
24:41 Speaker 03 MG obviously has never had a car with power.
24:44 Speaker 02 One, you show.
24:45 Doug DeMuro? There's one. But think about like Brazil gave us Sena. Brazil gave us Sena. The Brazilians know how to tune handling.
24:51 Speaker 02 Awesome. Right. They build a lot of fast cars in Brazil.
24:53 Doug DeMuro? We know about the Brazilian auto industry. Heck yeah.
24:55 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
24:56 Doug DeMuro? Um, people are going to be like, there is a Brazilian auto industry and there's 19 cars and they're really great. People are going to get so mad that we just did that. By the way, you know what Brazilian Vins start with?
25:04 Speaker 03 No.
25:04 Doug DeMuro? Nine. Okay. We are talking cars and we've already moved on to the next segment.
25:08 Speaker 03 Since you brought up the Volkswagen Atlas, I was thinking last night legitimately, I was thinking about this last night as I was walking the dog. Are you familiar with Volkswagen's SUV naming scheme?
25:17 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
25:17 Speaker 03 There's the T in Europe, there's the T-Rock.
25:20 Doug DeMuro? T-Rock?
25:20 Speaker 03 The Taos.
25:21 Doug DeMuro? Tiguan. What about it?
25:24 Speaker 03 Why doesn't Atlas have a T?
25:25 Doug DeMuro? Because it's not sold in Europe, it's sold in America.
25:27 Speaker 03 So it's only for the European markets that they care about the Ts?
25:30 Doug DeMuro? Apparently. Do you know what Tiguan, where they got that name?
25:33 Speaker 03 Isn't it some wind?
25:34 Doug DeMuro? No. Tig for Tiger and Iguan because in Germany, in German, Leguan apparently is the term for Iguana. Tiger, Iguana, put them together, Tiguan. I'm not excited, I'm nodding this up.
25:46 Speaker 02 That's true, verifiable.
25:47 Doug DeMuro? This is real.
25:48 Speaker 03 But then why isn't the Atlas the T-Alice?
25:50 Doug DeMuro? Or the T-Alice? Would have been actually good.
25:52 Speaker 03 Right.
25:53 Doug DeMuro? I would probably like it better.
25:54 Speaker 03 Yeah.
25:54 Doug DeMuro? Okay, Kenan, tell us your top cars story of the day.
25:58 Speaker 02 So your favorite YouTuber?
26:00 Doug DeMuro? My favorite YouTuber?
26:01 Speaker 02 Whistlin Diesel.
26:01 Doug DeMuro? Harry's girl, yes.
26:04 Speaker 02 Second favorite.
26:04 Speaker 03 Good all, Cody.
26:05 Speaker 02 Bought a car recently and it happens to be a car that we have had some feelings about, the market has as well. And that is the Ferrari SF90. So he bought a matte black Ferrari SF90.
26:16 Doug DeMuro? Whistlin bought an SF90 and he posted on Instagram, he's all proud of his SF90 and I love Whistlin dearly, obviously. Pull up the Whistlin, can you do that? Oh no, we can't pull up Instagram here, right?
26:24 Speaker 02 No.
26:24 Doug DeMuro? I love Whistlin dearly, he's a dear, dear friend of mine, we've texted twice. Both times I texted him and said, "Oh my God, Whistlin, I love you." And he said, "Who is this? Who is this guy? Please, I'm busy." And I said, "No, Whistlin, it's me, Doug, I love you." Okay, fine. Anyway.
26:38 Speaker 02 He just liked it.
26:42 Doug DeMuro? But he bought an SF90, which we don't, we're not fans of here on the pod.
26:47 Speaker 03 No single human.
26:48 Doug DeMuro? No, people bought, there are people who spent six, 700,000 for SF90.
26:52 Speaker 03 There's people that have spent 400 for the same car.
26:53 Speaker 02 There's some great calls to dealerships. I said on Instagram that people are losing hundreds of thousands of dollars.
26:57 Doug DeMuro? The SF90?
26:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:58 Doug DeMuro? It was like a 700 car with a lot of options. What's it worth now? Could I trade, if I had a one-to-one for Toyota GOAT, would people do it?
27:05 Speaker 02 I think people would be in a position.
27:06 Speaker 03 The right person would.
27:08 Speaker 02 Yeah, they, yeah, so.
27:10 Doug DeMuro? Just take over payments.
27:12 Speaker 03 Oh, they would be thrilled by that outcome.
27:13 Doug DeMuro? There's probably a lot of people out there who are just gonna walk away from these things.
27:16 Speaker 02 I mean, even in August, this one on our set was bid to 488.
27:19 Doug DeMuro? You got a sticker on that?
27:20 Speaker 02 Now, you figure, I have, let's see if we do.
27:23 Speaker 03 I think there was on that one.
27:25 Doug DeMuro? What is that sticker?
27:27 Speaker 02 Oh, my God! And this was time when Deers were 21, so Deers were gouging people for...
27:32 Doug DeMuro? It was a 21, this car?
27:33 Speaker 02 Yeah.
27:33 Doug DeMuro? What was the mileage?
27:35 Speaker 02 I'm guessing, yeah, 2600.
27:38 Doug DeMuro? This car lost $300,000 in 26... No, it wasn't a 650 sticker?
27:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, I mean, due to the math.
27:47 Speaker 02 But Deers were asking a lot over at the time, too. I mean...
27:49 Doug DeMuro? 200 grand in 2,600 miles.
27:52 Speaker 03 And there are more egregious examples.
27:54 Speaker 02 I heard Deers brag at the time about how they sold one for 890 or 900, and it was, and yeah, they were...
28:00 Doug DeMuro? Yikes, on a stick.
28:01 Speaker 02 And again, this was in August. They have depreciated substantially more.
28:04 Doug DeMuro? You know what's funny about this? We're talking about whistling. We're now in the SF90, but let's roll with it.
28:08 Speaker 02 Well...
28:09 Doug DeMuro? Ferrari, Ferrari, for years, sat on the sidelines of this market, like the 600, 700,000 car, like something above the sports cars, the 430 and the 458.
28:18 Speaker 02 But below the supercars.
28:19 Doug DeMuro? But below the supercars, and they only had the front-engine V12s, which, while we loved them, were not like for the, the kind of person who would buy one of the sports cars but wanted something more, there was nothing available for them, right?
28:28 Speaker 02 Wouldn't be, when you say you'd be a connoisseur.
28:31 Doug DeMuro? Right. They finally come out with one at the worst possible time, and, and they, they don't limit the production.
28:37 Speaker 03 It's not just that it was a bad time, it's that it wasn't an attractive product.
28:41 Doug DeMuro? It, it, it, part of the mystique and desirability of expensive Ferraris is that you can, they're limited production, and you can flip them. And I think this car has taught Ferrari an interesting lesson, which is the demand for the 599 SA Aperta. The reason those cars were selling for a million bucks in the aftermarket is not because a lot of people wanted a 599 SA Aperta, it's because there were 30 of them. And with that level of scarcity creates this interest and this mystique. There ain't 30 of these. There's 30 at every, at every exotic car lot.
29:09 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's, that's, that's pretty true.
29:11 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
29:12 Speaker 02 That is 75, by the way. But nonetheless.
29:15 Doug DeMuro? Does anyone have genuine interest in this car? Except for it can help them get on the list for the next special projects car? Or it could, you know what I'm saying? Like, is there actually an interest in this car? Not at the price point?
29:27 Speaker 02 I think there were, well, there were a number of things that led them to being, we'll get back to Whistling Diesel, sorry. There are a number of things that led to this car depreciate. One is that it looks, it's very difficult to distinguish it for, to people from the F8, which was in production at the same time.
29:40 Doug DeMuro? They look the same.
29:40 Speaker 02 They look the same, except this costs twice as much.
29:43 Doug DeMuro? The 296 looks better.
29:44 Speaker 02 296 looks better.
29:45 Doug DeMuro? Ocla, I am dead serious about this. Dead serious. People are gonna, on the comments, "You didn't mean that." I would rather have a 296 than a SF90. I swear. Because at this performance level, it doesn't, I'm, they're doing 0-60, like, 2.5. I'm good. That's enough for me. And I swear the 296 looks better. I swear it looks better.
30:02 Speaker 02 And my, and of course, the fear with this car is like, like the law Ferrari, like, was the hybrid before it. You gotta imagine that Ferrari will not support the technology of this car at all.
30:12 Doug DeMuro? Right.
30:12 Speaker 02 And so like, the battery stuff, I'm sure that will be problematic for owners in the future. And so like, I think people are worried about that. And it's at this weird transitional time when people want the last of Ferraris, they want the last NAV12 Ferrari, and like, they're scrambling for that. And this is the next generation. People aren't as excited about that. But it is fascinating that it has depreciated so much to the point where Whistling Diesel has bought one, and we can only imagine.
30:32 Doug DeMuro? Okay, so that's the question. Is Whistling gonna destroy it? Obviously, we hope so.
30:36 Speaker 02 We hope so.
30:36 Doug DeMuro? And so do SF90 owners, because that's one less. The problem is they're churning out like, four a day. So you'd need like, many Whistlings. Like, is there a, is there a Euro Whistling who destroys stuff?
30:45 Speaker 02 If the video does, well, maybe he'll do another one.
30:47 Doug DeMuro? In Europe, though, I don't think you're allowed to destroy things. I think like, there's rules, like, the regulations.
30:51 Speaker 02 Right, but not, not for Whistling Diesel.
30:53 Doug DeMuro? No, in Tennessee, you can destroy everyone. And I, and. Bury it in the yard.
30:56 Speaker 02 And so if he, if he does a great video series of destroying this thing, and maybe it goes up in flames in a field, he might actually be someone who was able to make money on one of these cars and not lose hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
31:08 Doug DeMuro? The first person who ever made money on a SF90, aside from the Ferrari dealer. Can I posit you something? Do you know that Whistling said at 10 million subs, he would get a Bugatti?
31:17 Speaker 02 Dang.
31:17 Doug DeMuro? How many subs does he have now?
31:19 Speaker 03 I don't know, but if you're not subbed, do it. If you're, folks out there, if you're not subbed to Whistling, you go sub to him now so he blows up a Bugatti.
31:25 Doug DeMuro? Get out there.
31:26 Speaker 03 Eight point five.
31:27 Doug DeMuro? Eight point five, he's getting it.
31:28 Speaker 02 Getting close.
31:28 Doug DeMuro? He's getting it.
31:29 Speaker 02 He's getting close.
31:30 Speaker 03 I will say, he burned down an F8, right? That was a car.
31:35 Doug DeMuro? Who, what, who's signed in on this? You sub right now. Sub, Kenan!
31:40 Speaker 02 Oh come on, I am subbed personally.
31:42 Doug DeMuro? What, what is this? This is like a Cars and Bins computer. Sub first. Cars and Bins supports Whistling.
31:48 Speaker 03 He, he, he has personally owned cool cars, though, right? Like, he doesn't destroy all of them.
31:51 Doug DeMuro? I don't know.
31:52 Speaker 03 He had like a Huracan or something, right?
31:53 Doug DeMuro? He had a Huracan that, yeah, he had a Huracan.
31:55 Speaker 03 Didn't he get from TJ Hunt?
31:56 Speaker 02 Yes, he did.
31:57 Doug DeMuro? Uh, who we also love. I legitimately, I love TJ. Okay, we got any other cars segments?
32:02 Speaker 02 Yes, so we're coming to the end of the year. It's getting cold and that means we're looking forward to next year. And I've started to look forward to autumn.
32:07 Speaker 03 It's sixty-five, it's seventy degrees today.
32:08 Doug DeMuro? Well, in other, in other parts of the country.
32:10 Speaker 02 It's bigger than San Diego, in case you've forgotten. Man, he's lived here for like two years and he's already forgotten about the other parts of the country.
32:16 Doug DeMuro? He's from Wisconsin.
32:16 Speaker 02 He's from Wisconsin. And he's like, wearing a hoodie because it's sixty-four degrees and he's cold.
32:20 Doug DeMuro? You know what I think of it?
32:21 Speaker 03 Because they want to advertise their merch.
32:22 Doug DeMuro? You know what I, oh.
32:23 Speaker 03 For sale at merch.co.
32:25 Doug DeMuro? You know.
32:27 Speaker 02 So embarrassing.
32:28 Doug DeMuro? When he had to, when he grew up in Wisconsin, he had to walk around with the name Filippo, and I bet he just wants to block that out.
32:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, do you just go by Phil?
32:35 Speaker 03 What do I go by now?
32:36 Doug DeMuro? Well, you go by Filippo, but in California, people are a little bit more accepting of people named Filippo. Like, as a thirteen-year-old in Wisconsin, I bet people are like, I bet there was some stuff.
32:45 Speaker 02 Fil, Fil, I'm calling you Phil.
32:49 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
32:49 Speaker 03 Okay, so, anyway, the year is coming.
32:51 Speaker 02 I started to look forward to events and now is when you start to book stuff at events because it kind of books up quickly. So my friends and I, every year I go to Amelia Island. I haven't missed it the last, except for two thousand twenty, I haven't missed it the last like seven or eight years. Love going to Amelia Island, can't wait to go this year.
33:04 Doug DeMuro? You're going to Amelia?
33:05 Speaker 02 Yeah, going to Amelia for sure.
33:06 Doug DeMuro? Of course.
33:07 Speaker 02 You won't.
33:08 Doug DeMuro? Why not?
33:09 Speaker 02 Because it's in, it's in Florida, yeah.
33:11 Doug DeMuro? I do not like Florida. And by the way, to all the Floridians out there, love Florida.
33:16 Doug DeMuro? No, I mean, if I went, like, I'd go see Tavorish and like, and like, pop in on that.
33:20 Speaker 02 That was the first time I ever got to see you wear a suit.
33:23 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I was a judge at Amelia one year.
33:25 Speaker 02 And a mirror caught fire, driving up to get its award.
33:28 Doug DeMuro? I awarded an award to a Lamborghini mirror. This is what happened. Okay, you want me to tell the story?
33:33 Speaker 02 Yeah, I was there. I watched it happen.
33:35 Doug DeMuro? Okay. Hoovy and Tavorish and I were judges at Amelia Island one year. And the category we were judging, Amelia and a lot of these concours events are trying to appeal to younger people. And the category we were judging was called, like, the car that would do best on YouTube or something. And I lived in Georgia at the time. I was thrilled to go down there. It was easy to go to Jacksonville, and so I did that. Hoovy was there, Tavorish and I, we all wore suits, we all judged, and we awarded the award to a Cadillac Deville limousine that the Pope was supposed to ride in on a visit to Latin America, but he did not.
34:08 Speaker 02 Still, damn.
34:09 Doug DeMuro? Now, the limousine was owned by the Peterson Museum, who declined the award, which actually is a wonderful thing, because Peterson doesn't need awards, but the second place car was owned personally by a guy, and so he was gonna win the award. That's really cool. Like, like Peterson, "Ah, we don't need the Pope car, doesn't need an award." Later, by the way, I tried to review the Pope car, and they're like, "Nah, that thing was blessed. You're not allowed to do it. I swear to God." So, anyway, I swear.
34:32 Doug DeMuro? We awarded to a mirror. The mirror is driving up on stage, because all the cars have to drive up on stage to collect the award. And as it's driving up, first off, we were supposed to present in the middle, and our award kept getting pushed back and back and back, because the mirror wouldn't start. Finally, they're about to award Best in Show, and it's like, our award's gotta go up. Like, it can't go after Best in Show. And I get the mirror started, and it's driving up onto the stage, and it catches on fire, as mirrors do. Well, Balboni is there, and so Balboni runs over, and he's like, fanning it. He's got like, a jacket. He's like, fanning the flames on this mirror, and it's on fire. And I'm sitting there thinking, "This was what it was like in Santa Agata in 1967." I'm watching a flashback. Valentino Balboni is trying to put out a fire on a mirror. This happened!
35:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, he knew what he was doing. It wasn't his first time. But then he also, like, continued, then he worked on it. Like, his jacket was like, in there, like, working on something. It was incredible to watch, like...
35:24 Doug DeMuro? The car never made it up on the stage.
35:26 Speaker 02 This is in, like, when you're at Amelia Island for this particular thing, there's like, it's like, cordon up, like, there are just like, rows of seats to sit in to watch this happen.
35:33 Doug DeMuro? Right.
35:33 Speaker 02 Like, it's a big event, and everybody's there watching it, and this poor car caught fire.
35:38 Doug DeMuro? After a big resto, too, I heard later. Anyway, what? Uh, I don't know. I think he did get the award. Yeah. He deserved it.
35:45 Speaker 02 But, uh, boy, was that, that must've been so embarrassing and terrifying at the same time.
35:49 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
35:49 Speaker 02 But he gets a great story. How many people have had Valentina, well, before it was delivered?
35:54 Doug DeMuro? How many people have had a Balboni blow on their car? Yeah. No, a lot that don't know.
35:57 Speaker 02 Probably me.
35:58 Doug DeMuro? You maybe.
36:00 Doug DeMuro? Uh, okay. But anyway, your point is, there's shows.
36:02 Speaker 02 Yeah. Going to Amelia for sure. Debating going to Scottsdale, which is in January, which is a little bit earlier, but I'm not sure if we're gonna be able to do that.
36:08 Doug DeMuro? I would like to.
36:08 Speaker 02 But definitely going to Car Week next year. Uh, already booked a house with our friends.
36:12 Doug DeMuro? You're on top of it.
36:13 Speaker 02 We're ready to go. Yeah.
36:13 Doug DeMuro? You gotta be.
36:14 Speaker 02 You have to be.
36:14 Doug DeMuro? Right.
36:15 Speaker 02 The thing about like these big events is like-
36:17 Doug DeMuro? The week before you went, but yeah.
36:18 Speaker 02 Well, sometimes you luck out, but not always. And, and this, in this particular case, we got more of where we want to stay in Carmel and all that stuff.
36:25 Doug DeMuro? Wow.
36:25 Speaker 02 But yeah, starting to look forward to more events. Um, and there are other ones I'd like to do. I'd really, would love to figure a way to go to, uh, the Bridges, uh, in the Hamptons. Seems like an incredible event. Uh, would love to be able to turn that at some stage, but there are a couple.
36:38 Doug DeMuro? Cars and caffeine and carburetors in New Canaan. Will you go with me to that? I've never been to that.
36:42 Speaker 02 You haven't been to it?
36:43 Doug DeMuro? No, it's always in the, I'm always on the Antarctic. I don't wanna go to Connecticut for that. I would love to.
36:48 Speaker 02 If you could find a, if you could get over to Connecticut, I'd go with it.
36:50 Doug DeMuro? I know. I oughta do it. It's like amazing event. It's like a very casual Cars and Coffee, but like McLaren F1s show up.
36:55 Speaker 02 Yeah.
36:55 Doug DeMuro? Like it's like, it's the craziest casual Cars and Coffee in existence, cause they only hold like three a year, like the spring, the summer and the fall. And so unlike like a weekly one, like big stuff shows up to that.
37:05 Speaker 02 You know, the other one that's getting kind of, is the Audrain. Audrain, the Audrain Museum in, uh, in Rhode Island does a concourse every year and that's starting to really take off.
37:13 Doug DeMuro? Last year you went and filmed at their museum, although the Cars and Coffee was canceled unfortunately.
37:15 Speaker 02 Two years ago. It got rained out unfortunately.
37:17 Doug DeMuro? You know what I'd love to do one year is-
37:18 Speaker 02 Goodwood. Great people.
37:19 Doug DeMuro? I, I got a list. I gotta do, make a list of car events I wanna go to. Another one honestly is, uh, is, is Detroit Woodward. Woodward is cool.
37:26 Speaker 02 Oh, Woodward. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
37:27 Doug DeMuro? It's the same week as Pebble though, is the problem. And so I would rather go to Pebble, but Woodward, just on a normal Saturday night, Woodward is cool as hell. And I'm sure during the dream cruise, it's really cool. Goodwood would be cool to go to. Yep.
37:39 Speaker 02 Goodwood, yeah. Revival and Festival Speed are both on my list. Not for this year, but I would like to, like to get to those eventually. Um-
37:46 Doug DeMuro? Monaco GP.
37:47 Speaker 02 Monaco G P, Mon不可Historics, Le Mans Classic is another one I'd really like to go to. There are a bunch, but right now, for this year, definitely going to Amelia, definitely going to Car Week.
37:58 Doug DeMuro? So if you're going to Amelia or to Car Week, look for Kenan. He'll be there.
38:02 Speaker 02 Come and say hello, I don't bite.
38:03 Doug DeMuro? He'll talk E39 M5 with you. If you've got an E39 M5, if you want an E39 M5, if you want to just hear Kenan do his thing and talk about the E39 M5.
38:14 Speaker 02 Or talk about, or talk about Ferraris.
38:16 Doug DeMuro? Oh, yeah, yeah.
38:16 Speaker 02 I like a lot of other cars. I just happen to really love the M5.
38:20 Doug DeMuro? He'll talk about other stuff too, but he'd prefer, we'd all prefer to talk about the E39 M5. On that subject, we must move on to the market report, which is brought to you by Cars and Bids app. To down, we have an app. Did you know we have an app? Did you know?
38:33 Speaker 03 I didn't, I didn't know.
38:34 Doug DeMuro? We got tons of downloads on this app. We don't even need to sell it anymore because.
38:37 Speaker 03 You're right. You know what we should talk about instead? We have a video series right now.
38:40 Doug DeMuro? We got a video series.
38:41 Speaker 03 Doug bought a car. He bought a new Doug car. Ken and I also bought vehicles. Nick showed up at the Diversa.
38:47 Doug DeMuro? But you're the one who actually bought a car.
38:49 Speaker 03 Right. And we went out to the desert.
38:53 Speaker 03 Earlier this week, a video went live where we did some challenges that Doug ideated that were a little bit evil. And then next week, it'll be the final video.
39:00 Doug DeMuro? We got a video series where we got cars. Sean's looking at me, why? We got a video series where we got, we took cars to the desert and it was amazing.
39:07 Speaker 03 It was legitimately a great time.
39:09 Doug DeMuro? The next episode is going to be even better because there's crazy stuff.
39:11 Speaker 03 I drag race a Corvette. Like I am in a Corvette and I drag race other people.
39:13 Doug DeMuro? Boom. It's great. Watch it. And if you haven't watched it yet, I don't, I don't like you.
39:17 Speaker 03 Also, why, why did we do all of this, Doug?
39:19 Doug DeMuro? We did it because we got merch now. Merch dot carsandbids dot com. You too could wear a gray shirt with gray pants. What do you have, Kenan?
39:27 Speaker 00 Born in Texas, made in America, that's Valero. Keeping America moving, rain or shine, day or night, 365 days a year. Giving back to our communities and helping businesses thrive. We're proud to fuel the people who keep this country moving. So whether you're exploring new roads or heading down ones you know, we're here, fueling drives coast to coast. Proudly American, proudly getting you where you need to be. Right now, Valero.
39:55 Speaker 02 I've got the Countach shirt on, which is one of my, I don't know if that angle.
39:58 Doug DeMuro? LP5000, it should be LP5000 S, but we'll move on. And then I have a. Cora GT Filippo, can you imagine Filippo wearing Cora GT merch?
40:06 Speaker 03 But there's also great hats.
40:06 Doug DeMuro? It's unbelievable.
40:08 Speaker 03 All right. And also, every dollar you spend on the merch store gets you...
40:12 Doug DeMuro? Enters you into the possibility of winning one of the cars from our Desert Car Challenge Series. You could win Filippo's C6 Corvette.
40:20 Speaker 03 You could.
40:21 Doug DeMuro? Okay, this ad was way too long, was not intended to be an ad. You can also ignore all that and just listen to the pod. The next... I want to talk about the SC430. Pull it up.
40:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, strong sale.
40:30 Doug DeMuro? Pull it up. Pull it up! We sold an SC430 for $48,000 United States dollars. This really happened. This was, by the way, this was a pre-face lift SC430. If you're in the SC430 community, you know what I'm talking about.
40:42 Speaker 03 Yep.
40:43 Doug DeMuro? Okay? I again want to state that all the enthusiasts who lined up around the original Lexus SC being like, "It's a drift mobile, it has a 2JZ, they did a V8," were all outshone by old people who prefer this and the market loves this car.
40:58 Speaker 03 Loves a 7,000 mile version, yeah.
41:00 Doug DeMuro? It had low miles, but we've... These sell for big money still.
41:03 Speaker 03 They do.
41:04 Doug DeMuro? This sold for 50...
41:05 Speaker 03 I know.
41:05 Doug DeMuro? Gee, do you know what IS250C sells for? $9,000.
41:09 Speaker 03 Well, it doesn't have a V8. Doesn't have a V8, but that makes 280 horsepower.
41:12 Doug DeMuro? $290.
41:13 Speaker 03 In my head, it was $290, but I decided to cut it down.
41:16 Doug DeMuro? $300! That was big boy!
41:18 Speaker 03 Dang, dang. Wow.
41:19 Speaker 02 Well, it... There is demand for these, even... And there has been for a long time. When I worked at that exotic car dealership, you actually wrote for Autotrader, and you wrote an article on one of our cars, which had, I think it was like 151 miles, memory serves me. I mean, and the guy who bought it emailed us and he was like, "I have one with..." It was a very weird email. He said, "I have one with 26,000 miles, it's worn out and I want to get a new one. I can't anymore, so I bought this."
41:42 Doug DeMuro? They don't sell it anymore, so here I am.
41:43 Speaker 02 And so he bought it from us, yeah.
41:44 Doug DeMuro? No way.
41:44 Speaker 02 And went to Florida. Of course it did.
41:46 Speaker 03 It's a cool... I mean, a lot of it's... California looks like.
41:49 Doug DeMuro? Santa Barbara.
41:50 Speaker 03 Of course it was. What color? Black or the purple?
41:53 Doug DeMuro? Dude, I just want to say legitimately, these SC 430s are insane. It's unbelievable how much they sell for. And the mark, the not the 2JZ powered rear wheel drive sporty SC market is hot. The SC 430 old guy market is hot. I remember when this car came out and I was a kid. It was like 2002 and people were so mad. Car enthusiasts on the forums were like, they ruined the Lexus SC. Yeah, ruined it so much. They created a giant market of people who love them.
42:20 Speaker 03 Top Gear's worst car ever, right?
42:22 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, top Gear.
42:22 Speaker 03 Worst car in the world ever.
42:23 Doug DeMuro? Everybody laughed at it because it was such a bad departure from the... This is just a great example of how car enthusiasts have no clue that what the general public is looking to.
42:32 Speaker 03 And also, like, old E320 Cabriolet, Mercedes E30 Cabriolet, it's also worth surprising money. Like, there's demand for regular...
42:43 Doug DeMuro? Comfortable, reliable.
42:44 Speaker 03 The E320, famously a four-door car. And this one, you could technically say have a 430 convertible.
42:49 Doug DeMuro? Oh damn, you got a 430 Spider.
42:51 Speaker 02 And then that shows up and it's like, well.
42:53 Speaker 03 I will also say, we think that this, or we know this is the highest public sale of an SC 430.
42:58 Doug DeMuro? Uh, what about when it was new and they cost 70 grand?
43:00 Speaker 03 Public sale and an auction, secondary auction.
43:04 Speaker 03 I don't know.
43:05 Doug DeMuro? No, but you're right.
43:06 Speaker 03 In like recent history.
43:07 Doug DeMuro? Speaking of strong numbers, we got a record for...
43:10 Speaker 03 The AutoZam AZ1. And the best part of this is that we got a record for the AutoZam AZ1. The last time, this same AZ1 sold.
43:17 Doug DeMuro? This AZ1 just sold for 40,500, which is an AZ1 record. And like people said, this AZ1 previously set a record on cars of bid, the last AZ1 record.
43:25 Speaker 03 Which had not been broken yet.
43:27 Doug DeMuro? Which was 34.
43:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, we broke it for the same as that car, but post a bunch of modifications. Doug reviewed this car, belonged to Kevin, who you've seen on this channel.
43:35 Doug DeMuro? I've driven this car, the record breaker.
43:37 Speaker 02 As have I. It was great.
43:39 Doug DeMuro? It was great.
43:39 Speaker 02 Love driving that thing. It little and buzzy.
43:42 Doug DeMuro? Little and buzzy.
43:43 Speaker 03 That's all you want, though.
43:44 Doug DeMuro? Like the Countach, but littler, buzzier.
43:47 Speaker 03 But very similar otherwise.
43:48 Speaker 02 You can redline it first, second, and third gear and not be doing 40.
43:52 Speaker 03 That is something special.
43:53 Doug DeMuro? Japan dude, it's a wild place.
43:55 Speaker 03 Forty grand is a lot of money for a car that's not that low mile. Like, these are desirable, like, just legit, well presented, nicely modified.
44:03 Doug DeMuro? Well, they deserve to be. They're pretty, they're pretty cool.
44:05 Speaker 03 They're so cool.
44:05 Doug DeMuro? All these K cars are kinda dumb, except for like this one and the cool.
44:09 Speaker 03 That was exactly the take I was gonna have.
44:10 Doug DeMuro? This, the, the Beet and the Cappuccino are all cool.
44:13 Speaker 03 The Beet and Cappuccino are worth very little, cuz they are like, normal cars.
44:16 Doug DeMuro? Well, and they were made in much higher numbers. I think that's the reason, cuz I actually, I think the Beet-
44:20 Speaker 03 They're all cool, they're not dumb.
44:21 Doug DeMuro? The Beet is the more drivable one.
44:23 Speaker 03 Yeah.
44:24 Doug DeMuro? Uh, it's pretty big inside the Beet. And I had zebra patterned seats, they all did OE, swear to you, I swear to you. Zebra, my bad. With a Z.
44:31 Speaker 03 Yep.
44:31 Doug DeMuro? Uh, but the AZ1, and, do you remember what the Suzuki version was called?
44:36 Speaker 03 The Suzuki Cappuccino?
44:38 Doug DeMuro? No, there was a Suzuki version of this.
44:41 Speaker 03 Yes, I do. The, oh my goodness.
44:43 Doug DeMuro? Suzuki Cara, or Cara.
44:46 Speaker 03 I was gonna say Sarah, but then I thought, that, that, that's a Toyota ver- Toyota Sarah.
44:50 Doug DeMuro? Anyway, the point is, this made money, it deserved to make money, it's cool as hell, and there's other market report things to discuss. Can you give us something?
44:56 Speaker 02 Yes, so we recently sold a, a car that, like, stands out in my mind. Now, I love the GT3, wonderful car. This 991 dot 1 GT3 sold for twen- for one hundred and eighteen thousand nine hundred dollars.
45:08 Doug DeMuro? You understand the can of worms you're bringing up here?
45:11 Speaker 02 Yes, it's a tip.
45:13 Doug DeMuro? It's a tip and?
45:14 Speaker 02 It had the engine thing, but Porsche recalled, all of them.
45:17 Doug DeMuro? Do you know what the engine thing is?
45:18 Speaker 03 Yeah, they recalled and replaced every single engine in a GT3.
45:20 Doug DeMuro? The engines were exploding. Well, but then they replaced them.
45:22 Speaker 02 They recalled all of them. And they also recalled them quickly, which people don't really realize.
45:27 Doug DeMuro? The engines were exploding.
45:28 Speaker 03 Well, now they don't, cuz they've been fixed, replaced, rather.
45:30 Speaker 02 Well, they don't cuz they've been fixed.
45:33 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
45:33 Speaker 02 But-
45:34 Doug DeMuro? We're trying to sell these cars? Yeah, these things are great.
45:37 Speaker 03 Are there continued issues? Like, I'm sure that's been priced down a little bit.
45:41 Doug DeMuro? There have been a couple, but that's true of every car. I, I, yes, they've been recalled and replaced, but they are all tips.
45:46 Speaker 02 Yes, they are all tips, and I realize that. However, 996 GT3s, the first GT3 offered in the United States, 96.2. Those, on average, according to Classic.com, are selling for about, on average, the last five years, selling for a hundred and eighteen grand, or a hundred and eight thousand dollars. So for ten thousand dollars more, you get that. Which from a driving. I think I probably would too, but.
46:06 Speaker 03 This is objectively.
46:07 Speaker 02 That is a pretty like, that is.
46:09 Doug DeMuro? These are fast, these are fun, these are cool, these are modern, which the 996 GT3.
46:13 Speaker 02 Cannot even remotely claim, yeah.
46:15 Doug DeMuro? That's a stick though. I love how the 996 GT3 looks. I will say that I think more to the overall point here. It's interesting that you can still get a couple of 911 GT3s in the low hundreds.
46:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:25 Doug DeMuro? Because there was a time when I was younger that 997 GT3s were in that market. In fact, every GT3, when it was new was 150 grand and then it depreciated to 100 when it was used. Those days are over like, and, and they're not even really depreciating much. So.
46:40 Speaker 02 No, I mean, and they're just.
46:41 Doug DeMuro? If you want to spend 100 Gs and be like, have a cool Porsche. The, a GT3, 996 or this.
46:48 Speaker 02 Or just to drive, to really drive and use. I mean, this is.
46:52 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. Cause the thing about these cars, this is also like the 996 in general. Thing about these cars is they're the, the bad GT3 and everybody kind of knows that, but they're still a GT3. It's like saying the bad Kennen, like you still have Kennen.
47:02 Speaker 02 Oh, that's very kind. Thank you. I don't know who the comparison point would be for that, but this, I think this.
47:07 Speaker 03 Sean.
47:10 Speaker 02 Poor producer. I, I love the idea of this car for, I mean, granted, it's still a lot of money, but relative to other GT3s, considering the 997 dot one GT3 is 150,000.
47:19 Doug DeMuro? What does a new GT3 cost MSRP today?
47:21 Speaker 03 You gotta assume 200 something?
47:23 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah. One assumes.
47:25 Doug DeMuro? New GT3 MSRP.
47:26 Speaker 03 183.
47:27 Doug DeMuro? 222.5.
47:28 Speaker 03 Oh, for the Dotsus.
47:30 Doug DeMuro? 222.5.
47:31 Speaker 02 22.
47:32 Doug DeMuro? So this is half price. I mean, I get your point. It will always have the stigma though. I, if you show up at the PCA gatherings, it's like the Boxer of GT3.
47:40 Speaker 03 But if you.
47:40 Doug DeMuro? But you're right. If you buy it to drive, if you just want to go on a mountain drive.
47:43 Speaker 02 Yeah. And admittedly, if you, maybe you can't drive manual or something like that, or you want to be able to use it on a more frequent basis.
47:50 Speaker 03 Or you want the fastest track speeds.
47:53 Speaker 02 Yeah. Or you're going for times. I, I think it's a very compelling buy.
47:57 Doug DeMuro? Let's talk GSF. Cause you have an interesting point here.
47:59 Speaker 03 We sold the GSF the other day. We had one live right now, but we also sold one earlier this week for 55.
48:04 Doug DeMuro? 55 US.
48:05 Speaker 03 The, this car had an 85K sticker.
48:07 Doug DeMuro? 85 sticker.
48:08 Speaker 03 So.
48:08 Doug DeMuro? Seven years ago.
48:09 Speaker 03 Seven years ago and reasonable number of miles. I mean, they're at what 40,000, some of that scroll down. Forty thousand. An F90 M5 also worth 55.
48:19 Doug DeMuro? Pull up a new tab, pull up that F90 M5.
48:21 Speaker 03 That, the most used one that we sold had a 115 sticker.
48:25 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
48:26 Speaker 03 So depreciation is wild. I mean, same sale price, similar mileage, if memory serves.
48:30 Doug DeMuro? A little newer, less miles.
48:34 Speaker 03 Sold for two grand less.
48:35 Doug DeMuro? Fifty two five.
48:36 Speaker 03 Right.
48:36 Doug DeMuro? The Lexus sold for more.
48:37 Speaker 03 For more.
48:38 Doug DeMuro? So the BMW is newer with less miles.
48:39 Speaker 03 And depreciated twice as much.
48:41 Doug DeMuro? What was the horsepower number on the BMW? Cause isn't the difference insane?
48:44 Speaker 03 Six.
48:44 Doug DeMuro? What is on this?
48:45 Speaker 02 Four sixty seven.
48:46 Speaker 03 So a hundred thirty, thirty, but the GSFs are remaining so desirable.
48:50 Doug DeMuro? It's true with the ISFs too. People want reliability. Used car market values different things, but I think this is a great point. I wanted to talk about this because you found, I didn't realize this was happening. The GSF is already, these cars aren't that old. The GSF has already overtaken the M5 in used desirability.
49:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:04 Doug DeMuro? Already.
49:05 Speaker 03 After seven years.
49:06 Doug DeMuro? The market, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw out something. The market does not trust high performance BMW engines.
49:12 Speaker 03 Especially M5s. Especially M5.
49:14 Doug DeMuro? I think that's true of all of them. Look at X6Ms, look at X5Ms.
49:17 Speaker 03 Okay. Well, I mean, sorry, especially the, I think M3s have a little bit of a buffer there.
49:21 Doug DeMuro? I don't know, man. ISF. The market does not trust used BMW.
49:26 Speaker 02 Can you blame him? After the warranty period ends, that's when the problems start coming.
49:31 Speaker 03 The GSF, there's a couple of small things that are known in the community, but like, they don't have problems.
49:36 Doug DeMuro? I've driven both these cars pretty significantly. The M5 drives way better, way better. First off, it's a newer generation of automobile.
49:41 Speaker 03 And better tech.
49:42 Speaker 02 Well, no offense, it's an M5.
49:44 Doug DeMuro? It's an M5. It drives amazing. It's got way more power. It's faster. I felt this car was, was excellent, but dynamically could have improved. The powertrain is fine, but like four sixty seven horsepower is not 600.
49:53 Speaker 03 The M5 has 20% more horsepower.
49:55 Doug DeMuro? To be perfectly honest, if I'm thinking about one of these, I'm thinking GSF. Like it's got, it's gonna be reliable. I'm buying the used off warranty car. Plus you can get that blue with those gold calibers.
50:07 Speaker 03 And you can get that mouse infotainment thing.
50:08 Doug DeMuro? That was bad.
50:09 Speaker 03 But like, that's what you're selling up for. You're paying more than an F90 M5. And I don't blame you.
50:14 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
50:15 Speaker 03 I also would.
50:16 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
50:16 Speaker 02 Well.
50:17 Doug DeMuro? You think about what people want these used.
50:19 Speaker 02 I would buy them.
50:20 Doug DeMuro? Well, that's because you're willing to dump money into cars. And I will say, the value differential between the two, as it widens, will be what the market feels that you need to spend to get the M5 to a level of driveability that the GSF is already at, right? Like, like if it's a 10 grand difference, the market then values the extra power at this. And, and then the, the, the rest of the value differential is that spend. And you're a guy who spends on his cars and that makes sense. It does drive better.
50:44 Speaker 02 Yeah, I drive, so I would.
50:48 Doug DeMuro? You drive and you spend.
50:50 Speaker 03 And you spend.
50:51 Doug DeMuro? And that's the thing, because there are a lot of other people who drive but can't outlay that level of cash.
50:56 Speaker 03 Or aren't willing to put up with the, will it start today?
50:58 Speaker 02 To be clear, both these cars are automatics. I'd never consider either of them, but nonetheless.
51:03 Doug DeMuro? I'm glad you're on this pod because you are like a lot of grumpy car enthusiasts. We need to have that.
51:09 Speaker 02 I've never had, never had an automatic, only manuals.
51:11 Doug DeMuro? There we go.
51:12 Speaker 02 And I'm sticking to that for as long as it's possible.
51:13 Doug DeMuro? Thank you for proving my point.
51:14 Speaker 03 I've only owned one.
51:15 Speaker 02 Yeah, but you've owned one. And you didn't, it wasn't something.
51:17 Speaker 03 I have needs in my life.
51:18 Speaker 02 Wasn't something cool, wasn't it?
51:19 Doug DeMuro? I'm just gonna say this, I got more manuals than the two of you put together. Put you two together, I got more manuals than you.
51:24 Speaker 03 I have a higher proportion of manuals.
51:26 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
51:27 Speaker 03 I have to think about that. I have a higher proportion of manuals.
51:29 Doug DeMuro? No, I got three out of six. We got both the same 50%. Kenan though wins that. Nonetheless, I do have three and the two of you put together only have two. Okay, we gotta move on to questions. Questions. Questions are sponsored by Filippo.
51:41 Speaker 03 Yeah, personally.
51:43 Doug DeMuro? He does the logical thing. Okay, questions first. Now remember, you can ask us questions too, carsandbids.com, and then click the Communities tab, and there will be a post there that says, hey, ask us questions. We are not podcasting next week. Next week is Thanksgiving in America. Instead of podcasting, we will be giving thanks.
52:00 Speaker 03 And what will we post on Twitter?
52:02 Doug DeMuro? Uh, we've, oh yeah, I might do that. I kind of left Twitter because it's kind of a cesspool.
52:06 Speaker 03 Can you do it on a different platform?
52:07 Doug DeMuro? I'll do it on Twitter just for you.
52:08 Speaker 03 What about like Facebook or Instagram?
52:10 Doug DeMuro? Uh, I'll do it on all of them.
52:11 Speaker 03 Blue sky, true social. I don't know. Take your pick.
52:14 Doug DeMuro? I'll pop it on to true social. We can do all that. Okay, first question from Max McCullough. For Max McCullough, hi Doug, can we get a swear jar on the podcast, except instead for swearing, it's for Kenan whenever he brings up the E395. Folks, Kenan, there's a complaint on the, on the, whenever you read the comments, that Kenan talking about his E395 too much. First off, a couple of things. Kenan has more depth in car than he reveals on the podcast.
52:37 Speaker 02 Yeah.
52:38 Doug DeMuro? Kenan is a big Ferrari enthusiast. He talks about Ferrari with me way more than we talk about the E395. But also, this is who Kenan is. That'd be like telling Filippo not to be logical and sensible and reasonable. The other, last night I asked Filippo what his favorite color is, and he said, I don't have one. And then he clarified, his favorite color used to be blue.
52:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, there was a time.
52:55 Doug DeMuro? But he decided he didn't want a favorite color anymore. It was too much choice.
52:59 Speaker 02 It would offend the other colors.
53:00 Speaker 03 I no longer felt notable.
53:06 Speaker 03 It wasn't a color that I identified with especially.
53:10 Doug DeMuro? So like you're giving Kenan crap like you could you should get to know Filippo.
53:14 Speaker 02 I have to I have to admit, there's a meme in my friend group about you and it's every time we bring up a car they're gonna buy you. You always mention something that you never buy anything. That's that's the meme.
53:22 Speaker 03 I reach out sometimes. There's two cars that I strongly consider.
53:24 Doug DeMuro? Filippo wastes the time of dealers.
53:26 Speaker 03 I do not.
53:27 Doug DeMuro? I don't waste car dealer time unless I'm buying.
53:29 Speaker 03 The last time you bought a car, I reached out to dealers on your behalf.
53:32 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, we were ready to buy and you negotiated me a discount of $0.
53:37 Speaker 02 That smack dab right in the middle of it.
53:39 Doug DeMuro? Have we ever told this story on the pod?
53:41 Speaker 03 I don't think so.
53:41 Doug DeMuro? We've never told this story on the pod. I gotta tell the story. It's such a good story. Okay, I wanted to buy a Toyota Sequoia TRD Pro, right? And it had just come out a year earlier, but there were used ones that had already flooded the market.
53:53 Speaker 03 There were like two used ones.
53:54 Doug DeMuro? There were a few.
53:55 Speaker 03 There were two.
53:55 Doug DeMuro? And new ones, I couldn't find at sticker and used ones were like not all at sticker either, but almost.
54:00 Speaker 03 There were two TRD Pro in white, which was the requirement in the world.
54:04 Doug DeMuro? I didn't want the roof rack, remember?
54:05 Speaker 03 Right. It was a very, there were literally two cars in the country.
54:07 Doug DeMuro? And I didn't want the red interior.
54:08 Speaker 03 And you didn't want the gun box.
54:10 Doug DeMuro? I didn't want the gun storage safe. Actually, I would have been happy with that. You never know what's gonna happen. And so, anyway, so Filippo, I said to Filippo, look, I need to buy this car, but I really don't want to do it myself. Filippo loves like the car buying process and like dealing with dealers. He loves it. So I was like, why don't you negotiate this for me? So we find one in Ohio and it was in it was in it was near where Kenan is from, actually, northeast Ohio.
54:32 Speaker 02 Kent, Ohio, I think is where it was.
54:33 Doug DeMuro? And we find a Toyota of Kent and and Filippo reaches out and he says, listen, I'm interested in Sequoia. And they were asking 82 or something.
54:41 Speaker 03 Which by the way, like was a few grand below sticker.
54:43 Doug DeMuro? A few grand below, so right at it. It was like the cheapest one.
54:46 Speaker 03 It was, yeah.
54:46 Doug DeMuro? And so Filippo said, I'm interested in this. And so the people, they they start going at the negotiation, right?
54:51 Speaker 03 Yeah.
54:51 Doug DeMuro? Filippo offers 80 and they said, no. 81, no. 81.5.
54:58 Doug DeMuro? And eventually they say no, and Filippo goes, okay, we'll take it for the 82 then.
55:02 Speaker 03 I will say.
55:03 Doug DeMuro? This was a day of negotiations.
55:05 Speaker 03 I will say, it took time. And also, it's really hard to negotiate when it is already the cheapest one in the country. There's two for sale, period. And Doug is willing to spend it.
55:14 Doug DeMuro? He was willing to do it. So, at the end of all this, they didn't, they never, they found out, they discovered like my name, but they, no one at the dealer knew who I was. And so there was no like benefit that I got from being me. So at the end of the day, this is all true. At the end of the day, they call me up and they're like, all right, we need to get your information, take a deposit, get it done. I gave them my driver's license. And then they went dark.
55:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:36 Doug DeMuro? And two days later, they call me, they're like, we sold it to a local buyer. So not only did Filippo spend a day negotiating and get the price down $0, but we didn't even get the car.
55:48 Speaker 03 But, but there was a, the other one in the country was in Nevada, and I did negotiate it down a couple of grand.
55:54 Doug DeMuro? It was like 200 bucks you got off the Nevada.
55:56 Speaker 03 I got like a grand off.
55:57 Doug DeMuro? And it had a red and tur-
55:58 Speaker 03 And then Doug backed out for this Ohio one. And then I had to write the very kind salesperson, who I talked to a lot on the phone, a review on Google reviews, because he didn't get a sale out of it, because Doug wanted the specific car.
56:08 Speaker 02 You were the person-
56:09 Doug DeMuro? No, after that, we found a new one. Okay, next question is from, but that was my favorite, that was the Filippo negotiating story.
56:14 Speaker 02 Filippo classic.
56:15 Doug DeMuro? He spent a day negotiating, got the price down $0, and we, so then we met at Ask, and we still didn't get the car.
56:22 Speaker 03 I will say-
56:23 Doug DeMuro? That is a Filippo negotiation.
56:25 Speaker 03 Last week, I reached out about a green, a green C7 Corvette that was for sale at a dealership in Sacramento. And I emailed back and forth with one of their online salespeople, who was very helpful. And I, like, I thought they were a little bit high on their price. And I thought if they got down like 2 grand, we'd be in the right spot.
56:40 Speaker 02 2 grand.
56:41 Speaker 03 They refused.
56:42 Doug DeMuro? They refused, and they sold it to somebody else for their asking price.
56:45 Speaker 02 He lost it over 2G.
56:47 Speaker 03 Well, I was only willing to pay the market a perfect price.
56:49 Doug DeMuro? Okay, we gotta go over a couple more questions. Next question is from poo. It's actually underscore poo. If you had to daily drive a car worth over a million dollars, what would you pick? It's a good one.
56:59 Speaker 03 Can you list some cars that are worth over a million dollars?
57:01 Doug DeMuro? Uh.
57:02 Speaker 02 Two fifty Lusso. Uh, what other?
57:04 Doug DeMuro? I mean, isn't Chiron the answer?
57:05 Speaker 02 Chiron is definitely the answer because it's more reliable than its predecessor.
57:09 Doug DeMuro? But also, it's just like a usable car.
57:11 Speaker 02 It's a Bentley that happens to be able to do 260 miles an hour.
57:14 Doug DeMuro? It would be annoying to drive around in a Chiron though. People would be excited about it. Carrera GT, nobody looks at. You could drive that, but it's hard.
57:20 Speaker 02 Yeah, Shishi would be tough.
57:21 Speaker 03 Tell Design Columbus.
57:23 Doug DeMuro? At Tell Design Columbus, I can't imagine the mill.
57:25 Speaker 02 Right.
57:25 Doug DeMuro? Because like if they wanted a mill.
57:27 Speaker 03 Says over a mill.
57:28 Speaker 02 It's not the objection to daily use. It's the objection that it's not worth a mill.
57:31 Doug DeMuro? Like, like, I remember I tried to buy that car from Tell Design and they refused to sell to me because it is part of our heritage. And I'm thinking to myself, huh, not a good part.
57:37 Speaker 03 Okay, it says over a mill. You think I offer them 10, 10 mills they don't get you?
57:40 Doug DeMuro? I would have been willing to go up to 150 cash. And you know what? Those Italian design houses are all kind of perpetually in financial trouble.
57:48 Speaker 03 You could have bought the entire company.
57:48 Doug DeMuro? I should stay in, I should stay in contact.
57:50 Speaker 02 Hit him again.
57:51 Doug DeMuro? I should hit him again. It's like the Gilmore Girls Wrangler. I should hit him again. Like, yeah, well, how are things now?
57:56 Speaker 02 I think the Chiron is probably the correct answer there.
57:58 Doug DeMuro? You got a better answer? He doesn't know any cars over a million bucks.
58:01 Speaker 03 Cars over a million bucks?
58:02 Doug DeMuro? Probably the Shiva.
58:03 Speaker 02 Yeah. I don't think the Lagonda Taraf is over a million anymore.
58:05 Doug DeMuro? No, it's not. I thought about that. Because what other like luxury cars over a million bucks, right? It's all sports cars. And so I guess the question is asking, what super high-end sports car is the most reasonable not to get teed up in?
58:16 Speaker 03 How much do you think Mercedes would charge me for their, uh, S213, uh, off-road version? Remember the?
58:22 Doug DeMuro? Oh, the Portal Axel E450? Pull that up. That is a possibility.
58:27 Speaker 03 They told me for a mill.
58:28 Doug DeMuro? Hey, by the way, what about, uh, six by six G? Those aren't a million bucks anymore though.
58:31 Speaker 02 What should I be looking for?
58:32 Doug DeMuro? Just type in E450 Portal Axel.
58:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
58:34 Doug DeMuro? E450 four by four squared is I think what they called it.
58:36 Speaker 03 I think that's what they called it.
58:37 Doug DeMuro? You, you gotta type in E4, E400, E-Class, E-Class wagon.
58:41 Speaker 03 It may have been, it may have been an E400 at the time.
58:43 Doug DeMuro? Wagon four by four squared.
58:46 Speaker 02 I'm gonna have to type that up.
58:47 Doug DeMuro? And then just hit enter. You don't have to delete Portal Axel. Just hit it. There it is.
58:49 Speaker 03 Yeah.
58:51 Doug DeMuro? There it is.
58:52 Speaker 03 Wow.
58:52 Doug DeMuro? I don't think that'd be a million bucks though.
58:54 Speaker 03 But I would, I would, I would pay him a million just to have.
58:56 Doug DeMuro? And fleet the drive around. We've been wanting to answer this question.
59:00 Speaker 02 Oh, eh, nah, sure answer. I was gonna say, what do you think Volkswagen would want for their GTI W12?
59:08 Doug DeMuro? No. Okay, next question comes from, oh, yes, yes. Fellas, what is the best example of a car that wasn't sold in America, but if it was, it would have been a financial success? This is a great question. Everybody's always like, what do you want to import? What would have been a success? The answer is the Nissan Terra. Pull it up!
59:23 Speaker 02 Nissan Terra?
59:24 Doug DeMuro? The Nissan Terra.
59:25 Speaker 03 Terra?
59:25 Doug DeMuro? Here is a fun fact-
59:26 Speaker 03 Or Terra 2, which is a different vehicle.
59:28 Doug DeMuro? Here is a fun fact for our audience that doesn't know. You're thinking of the Toronto.
59:30 Speaker 03 I am thinking of the Toronto 2.
59:31 Doug DeMuro? Here's a fun fact for our audience that doesn't know. The Nissan Xterra, which was a body-on-frame SUV-ish thing that was relatively successful, it was canceled in the US after the 2015 model year, right when off-roading became a thing. Like, they canceled it and then the market blew up. But for our American audience that doesn't know, Nissan continued to make the Xterra in other markets called simply the Terra. And it wasn't as cool-looking, but it was still pretty trucky and capable, and they never sold it here. It's sold in Asia. And I think that Nissan's biggest mistake of a... And Nissan has made a ton of mistakes. Like, it's wild. But their biggest mistake was getting rid of the Xterra the day before off-roading became a thing.
1:00:09 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's a good example.
1:00:10 Doug DeMuro? And they could have sold this in the US and done well. Maybe a boxier version of it.
1:00:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, in a similar vein, I think that the current-gen Jimny would have sold well for a year or two.
1:00:19 Doug DeMuro? I think it would have been a hit.
1:00:20 Speaker 03 Then people would have realized it's not a good car, but people drive a lot of bad cars.
1:00:23 Doug DeMuro? People drive a lot of bad cars.
1:00:24 Speaker 03 500e.
1:00:25 Doug DeMuro? It's cool-looking and it's cheap.
1:00:27 Speaker 03 Right, I think it would have been hard to federalize, like, to get it to pass the test.
1:00:30 Doug DeMuro? Suzuki, Suzuki, it's such a shame about Suzuki. They left the US market like the day before they started making desirable cars.
1:00:36 Speaker 03 Yep.
1:00:36 Doug DeMuro? The Swift, the new Swift is cool, too. They had the Ignis before.
1:00:39 Speaker 03 I know. It became desirable.
1:00:42 Doug DeMuro? What was that weird-looking Suzuki hatchback thing? We're not gonna get into this.
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1:01:15 Speaker 02 Do you think the R34 GT-R if it had been sold in the US would have been pretty successful?
1:01:19 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, but the problem was it would have just been hard and they came out with the next one.
1:01:23 Speaker 02 Well, I'm aware, but that's not the spirit of the question.
1:01:25 Speaker 03 This is just the Ario, by the way.
1:01:26 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I think that I think that they would have been successful with that car just because there was so much hype about it at that time, but decisions were made years before the hype started and it's such a shame.
1:01:36 Speaker 02 But the end, the R35 killed it in the end.
1:01:38 Doug DeMuro? They are, R34 GT-Rs are now legal. They're not left-hand drive. There are some conversions, but it's a shame.
1:01:45 Speaker 03 And they're running, um, Ario.
1:01:47 Doug DeMuro? No, I was thinking of some, I was thinking of the, some sort of Ignis hatchback. Anyway, we'll, we'll discuss off camera.
1:01:52 Speaker 03 All right, we will.
1:01:53 Doug DeMuro? Uh, BigUltimaHater6 asks a very interesting question. Do you think the electric G-Wagon will face the same depreciation of other EVs? For those of you who don't know, an EV that was purchased last year is today worth the same as a pencil sharpener. Does that apply to the G-Wagon? No, just a regular manual. Does that apply to the electric G-Wagon? Because the G-Wagon has always had incredibly strong depreciation. It is not depreciating.
1:02:18 Speaker 03 Incredibly strong.
1:02:19 Doug DeMuro? Is it going to follow the depreciation curve of an EV or the depreciation curve of a G-Wagon?
1:02:24 Speaker 03 Well, I'm gonna, I think that the question's a little bit of an issue. During COVID, G550s had no depreciation. They are depreciating.
1:02:31 Doug DeMuro? But not?
1:02:32 Speaker 03 Not, not as fast as the regular.
1:02:33 Doug DeMuro? Look at, look at ranges, yeah.
1:02:34 Speaker 03 I think that they will have depreciation, like somewhere between there and most other EVs.
1:02:38 Doug DeMuro? If they do, I want one. If I can pick one of these up for 65, I want one.
1:02:41 Speaker 03 I think you've got a couple of years if demand is strong while supply is still low, but then I don't think they stay up.
1:02:47 Speaker 02 I'm, I don't necessarily agree. I don't, I don't necessar- the thing with the G is that even what props up older G values is they all look the same. And like, I don't think that, I don't, I think the demand will be sufficiently high for that car for a pretty long time. Cause you sacrifice basically nothing.
1:03:04 Doug DeMuro? Fair point.
1:03:05 Speaker 02 And you, you can drive for, for people who want to, they want a G, but they want to signal to people that they're environmentally conscious. A lot of stars in LA.
1:03:14 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
1:03:14 Speaker 02 They want the electric one and I don't.
1:03:16 Speaker 03 And it does look like every other G.
1:03:17 Doug DeMuro? The thing about, the thing about the G-Wagon is the only reason, everybody wants one. We would all be driving one except the image is horrible.
1:03:23 Speaker 02 Image is tough.
1:03:23 Doug DeMuro? And then there are some people who don't care about that and just do it anyway.
1:03:26 Speaker 03 And are doing it because of it.
1:03:28 Speaker 02 Exactly.
1:03:29 Doug DeMuro? But, but now here's an opportunity to get out of the Teslas and get back into a G and do the electric thing like you said. I would, I would love to have one. I think you're cool.
1:03:40 Speaker 02 It was cool.
1:03:40 Speaker 03 Ken makes a good point. They might not appreciate.
1:03:41 Doug DeMuro? I think they're gonna appreciate like a G-Wagon and not like an EV. I agree with Ken.
1:03:45 Speaker 02 It looks the same. It looks the same. They did not mess with the design of the right car.
1:03:49 Doug DeMuro? And it drives the same. It drives well.
1:03:50 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:03:50 Doug DeMuro? It's fast. It's, it's bulky and brawny. That's what people like about it.
1:03:53 Speaker 03 You're just driving around in traffic in LA. Who cares?
1:03:55 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
1:03:56 Speaker 02 And you're sitting there in silence and like, it actually might be nicer. It might be more desirable than the gas one for some people.
1:04:01 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. Okay. We can do two more questions. Two more questions. One of them is ridiculous and one of them is good. The good one is from Ryan JG. JG, JG. If you were to all choose a different car for the $18,000 enthusiast challenge, what car would you choose?
1:04:15 Speaker 03 Panamera Turbo. Knowing the challenges or not knowing the challenges?
1:04:18 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, knowing the challenges.
1:04:20 Speaker 03 Which most people don't yet know all the challenges.
1:04:22 Doug DeMuro? But what would you choose? I would, I legit would choose a Panamera Turbo.
1:04:25 Speaker 03 It's a good choice.
1:04:26 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
1:04:27 Speaker 03 It's arguably a better choice than what you made.
1:04:29 Doug DeMuro? It is arguably a better choice. Yeah. I, I didn't put a lot of thought into it when we, when Sean came to me.
1:04:35 Speaker 03 Actually, what, what, what you said, what you said when we proposed it was, I will only do this if I'm in a Cayenne.
1:04:40 Doug DeMuro? Didn't I also say, or a Panamera?
1:04:42 Speaker 03 I think you may have.
1:04:42 Doug DeMuro? But definitely wanted a Cayenne. Prefer a Cayenne.
1:04:47 Speaker 03 I think for, if I'm like just buying an $18,000 car, the two that come to mind, besides the C6 Corvette that I did buy, an S2000, you can get a pretty nice S2000 for 18. You can also get a mediocre 996 911. Neither would have been better for these challenges. The C6 would have been the right car for the challenges, but.
1:05:04 Speaker 02 Filippo.
1:05:04 Speaker 03 Interesting cars.
1:05:06 Speaker 02 You think in the drag race?
1:05:07 Speaker 03 No, no, no, no. That's what I'm saying. I'm thinking out loud. I'm thinking out, people don't know this is a drag race yet. In the, the, in the challenges, I think that those would have both performed worse than the car I chose. But I, like, if I think of 18K cars.
1:05:20 Doug DeMuro? $18,000 cars. What about you? What if we had forced you to not have an E39 M5?
1:05:25 Speaker 03 I banged.
1:05:25 Speaker 02 60 M5.
1:05:28 Speaker 02 They had to stop a lot for fuel. Uh, no, E60 M5 was another one I did consider. But man, for the price range you're in, they're some tough E60s. I don't know, we would have made it. And they're all SMG, obviously. But then I was thinking, uh, yeah, if I were thinking automatic, I considered W211 E55 AMGs. Those are right in that price range and that is a lot of car.
1:05:48 Doug DeMuro? I want to switch to that. Now what would you take? I already have it.
1:05:50 Speaker 02 Too late. I said it first.
1:05:52 Speaker 03 That was the right option.
1:05:52 Speaker 02 You can have, I'll tell you, you can have, yeah, you can have a wagon. Um, but those aren't.
1:05:56 Doug DeMuro? Those are good. That's okay. Fine. Those are good. E60 M5 actually would have been funny and interesting.
1:06:00 Speaker 02 Yeah, but it would have exploded.
1:06:02 Doug DeMuro? Okay, last question.
1:06:04 Speaker 03 Three for 18.
1:06:05 Doug DeMuro? Uh.
1:06:07 Speaker 02 Good luck, good luck charging fully booked.
1:06:10 Doug DeMuro? Okay, final question is from Nick Shi and it is, Kenan, go over to the thing. The question is, I have an important question. Is the thing here a fake air intake or a blinker signal?
1:06:21 Speaker 03 Oh, obviously it's a blinker. Obviously, it's, it's, it's where the side indicator is. Yeah.
1:06:26 Doug DeMuro? Okay, what do you think?
1:06:27 Speaker 02 I would, yeah, I thought, I thought it was a blinker.
1:06:29 Doug DeMuro? Suicide door handle.
1:06:31 Speaker 03 Okay, that is the other option. I agree with that.
1:06:33 Speaker 02 But like, you'd be opening this half of the car. Like, it'd be opening the fender of the car.
1:06:39 Speaker 03 Also, I love our designer dearly. I don't think he thought about suicide doors.
1:06:44 Doug DeMuro? No, I think it's one of those, a lot of cars have like fake intake vents there.
1:06:48 Speaker 03 No, no, it's a, it's a side indicator and it better be amber.
1:06:52 Doug DeMuro? By law, I think. There are always amber on the side, I think.
1:06:56 Speaker 03 Well, and, and, and other markets, they can be white.
1:06:58 Speaker 02 You advise, you advised on the logo, surely.
1:07:02 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I remember being pitched this and a couple others and I was like, I like them all.
1:07:05 Speaker 03 By the way, have you, there are others. This is the car we chose for the logo, but there are other cars.
1:07:09 Doug DeMuro? There are other cars. We made other cars. Did you know that? There's like trucks and stuff.
1:07:13 Speaker 02 I think I do remember, I think I have them somewhere.
1:07:14 Speaker 03 There's also some like, some convertibles.
1:07:17 Doug DeMuro? Too close to a car.
1:07:18 Speaker 02 There was one that looked like a 458.
1:07:19 Doug DeMuro? This looked like that Honda Electric Honda thing, didn't it? That Honda EV thing that sold in other markets?
1:07:25 Speaker 03 The, the Honda E?
1:07:27 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
1:07:27 Speaker 03 Does not look like a Honda E at all.
1:07:29 Doug DeMuro? It looked like some concept car version of the Honda E that was coupier. Someone will post in the comments about it. Anyway, the point is-
1:07:36 Speaker 03 Nobody understands what you're referring to.
1:07:38 Doug DeMuro? That's an intake, uh, not a blinker. And if it was a blinker, it would be amber and white blinkers side are not allowed.
1:07:44 Speaker 03 Agreed.
1:07:44 Doug DeMuro? Before we sign off, we have one more thing to discuss. Someone sent us a dog. Someone who sent us a business card saying that they were a Subaru ambassador. His name was Fred. He sent us this dog. The dog has a collar that says Subaru.
1:07:58 Speaker 03 Can I say hi to the dog?
1:07:58 Doug DeMuro? And on the thing it says, no, on the thing, it doesn't like you. On the thing it says Subaru loves pets. I'll tell you what, if you can name the state for me that the company is headquartered in that created this dog-
1:08:07 Speaker 03 It's Indiana, obviously.
1:08:08 Doug DeMuro? Nope, New Hampshire. The dog stays with me.
1:08:11 Speaker 03 Oh, the company that made the dog? Well, you, I should have listened.
1:08:13 Doug DeMuro? Yup, the dog stays with me.
1:08:15 Speaker 03 I love it.
1:08:17 Doug DeMuro? His name will be Fred after the person who got him for us. After Mike, the Audi thing, robot, and then these bizarre Toyota things. Speaking of the bizarre Toyota things, by the way, thank you Fred for our dog, which-
1:08:28 Speaker 03 Yes, thank you.
1:08:29 Doug DeMuro? Is very plush and beautiful.
1:08:30 Speaker 03 Nope, you can't touch the dog.
1:08:32 Doug DeMuro? Uh, speaking of the Toyota things, again, we are not here next week, but we don't have to be because this was our best podcast ever. Goodbye, everyone!
1:08:40 Speaker 03 Goodbye. Bye. Like, damage something. Merce.org
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