899: Reaching Out

Sayre Quevedo’s invented a way to do a podcast that feels completely new. He’s been recording nearly all his conversations for years, and the result is something that captures a person’s life in a raw and complicated way that’s rarely heard. His new show Reaching Out also documents his mutually judge-y relationship with his twin brother as they set out to find their long-lost birth father. Want to watch our live show this Friday? Use free trial code LIVESTREAM when you sign up as a Life Partner https://thisamericanlife.supercast.com?utm_id=lifepartners&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=shownotes. (00:00:00) Prologue: Ira Glass introduces Reaching Out, a podcast that feels like it invented something completely new — an ambitious way of capturing a life in a way we'd never heard before. (1 minute) (00:02:39) Part One: Sayre Quevedo and his brother start the search for their birth father, and they discover that this whole time he’s been a few minutes away from where Sayre lives. (20 minutes) (00:21:49) Part Two: The twins try reaching out in a variety of ways before taking more direct action. Sayre tries to continue life as normal. (12 minutes) (00:34:50) Part Three: Sayre and Connor go in person to face their dad. (24 minutes) Transcripts are available at thisamericanlife.org https://www.thisamericanlife.org/899/transcript / This American Life privacy policy https://www.thisamericanlife.org/page/privacy-policy. / Learn more about sponsor message choices https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ira Glass?

  Hey, it's Ira with a quick word before the show starts. So I have this video that I want to show you. Maybe you heard, because we did so many promos, actually, that we just did this live show onstage in Los Angeles where I told stories and then Vic McAlister and these really talented comedians did improvised scenes based on those stories on the spot. And we livestreamed video of this show. And I'm just here to say that if you missed the livestream, you can now see the show. We have posted the video online. It's a really fun show. And to watch this for absolutely free, sign up for a free trial This American Life Partners subscription. And our hope is, you know, you'll stick around after the trial and that you'll love all

• 0:42Ira Glass?

  the bonus episodes and listening ad-free and all the other stuff we give you. Plus, we hope you'll like helping us make the show by sending us this money. But if you don't, if you just want the free trial, watch the video, try it out for a couple of days, quit, no foul, fine with us, and I think you're really going to enjoy watching the show we did. Go to thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners and use the, this is a very, very original promo code we came up with, VIDEO. That's right. The promo code is VIDEO. That link is also in the show notes. Okay. Here's this week's show.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Support for this podcast and the following message come from Allianz Travel Insurance. Your flight booked, your lungs suddenly battling bronchitis. Travel insurance helps protect your travel budget so you can book again once you feel better. Learn more at allianztravelinsurance.com.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  A quick warning, there are curse words that are unbeeped in today's episode of the show. If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, thisamericanlife.org.

• 1:51Ira Glass?

  From WBZ Chicago, it's This American Life. I'm Ira Glass. I recently heard this podcast that was so exciting to hear because it felt like the people who did it invented something completely new, which is so rare. And it's like, I feel like they took what shows like ours do and then just pushed it further and further until it became something else. And I want to play you some of that show today. It's by somebody who I had never heard of before. His name is Sarah Covado, and the series is called Reaching Out. It's made by Futuro Studios. And as you'll hear, like, at some point years ago, it seems like Sarah started recording nearly all of his personal conversations, including like, these especially passive-aggressive

• 2:33Ira Glass?

  conversations with his twin brother that get more interesting and complicated the further you get into the series. And it's just, I don't know, real messy life captured on recordings in a way that is rare to hear. And then Sarah also invented this way to do narration that at first, when you hear it, you're like, what's happening? And then, I don't know, I really came to love it. And the show is ambitious. I don't know if I've heard another podcast that tries to capture a person's life as completely as this one does. And like, just what it feels like to be alive right now. So we're going to excerpt some of the show today. That's going to be the whole hour. And I just want to say, stay with it. I guarantee, it pays off. Here's Sarah.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  On February 15, 2020, Connor calls you to ask if you want to look for your birth father. You do not record this conversation. This is notable, if only because so much of your life has been recorded. Moments far less consequential than this. You're on Connor's fourth birthday.

• 3:40Speaker 04

  Give me a rubber nose. Did you guys see that? Dad, hand me a rubber nose.

• 3:47Speaker 03

  A school performance. You play a scared rabbit. Your only line--

• 3:51Speaker 05

  I think you're lost. Don't worry, we'll just go back where we came. Which way can we come?

• 3:57Speaker 03

  A house party when you were 16, when you first began to record yourself.

• 4:01Speaker 06

  I interview people and I talk to them about whatever I want to talk about. And since it's about like me and it's about things I do, like, I figure I should record there.

• 4:12Speaker 03

  There is a price for what we choose to remember and what we choose to forget. If you had known how this would all turn out, maybe you would have recorded everything. Or if you'd known the cost, maybe you would not have recorded anything at all. On February 15, 2020, your brother calls you to ask if you want to look for your birth father. But there is no record of that call. There is, however, a recording of the call you make a few days later.

• 4:44Speaker 07

  Hello?

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Hey, brother.

• 4:46Speaker 07

  Hey, what's up?

• 4:47Speaker 03

  Nothing. My phone is at 10%, by the way.

• 4:49Speaker 07

  Oh, that's cool. I don't, I can't, I don't feel like talking on the phone very long. I'm tired.

• 4:52Speaker 03

  I'm recording. I hope that is okay.

• 4:54Speaker 07

  Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. All right. That's cool. Are you recording because you want to talk about dad stuff? Yeah, well, not just because of that, but yeah. Hmm. I thought that's what you wanted to talk about. I have other things on my mind, but, hmm. I mean, yeah, that's just like a very intense conversation. Can I tell you something crazy that happened today that has nothing to do with him?

• 5:11Speaker 03

  These days, you rarely know where Connor is until he's already there. You call and he's in Washington with his girlfriend. You call again, and he's barely got service. He's trimming weed in Arcata, or he's hopped a train to the Midwest, or he's crashing on a friend's couch in Oakland. Right now, Connor is partying in New Orleans with his girlfriend. Right now, you are pacing around your room in Harlem, staring at a whiteboard where you have scribbled a list of vague to-dos.

• 5:38Speaker 07

  Today, me and Claire were walking to go get my bike, and we walked by this guy who apparently used to live here. We keep walking, and all of a sudden, like, here, we hear steps and I look behind.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Connor does not like it when you point out your differences, but contrast is the rightful and unavoidable dominion of twins. They're superficial distinctions, the kind of differences strangers point out when you inevitably pull up a photo of Connor after they learn you're a twin. Your tightly coiled curls, Connor's loose, wavy hair. Connor's growth spurt at 16. You're 5'7", which you say is 5'8". But nothing makes you feel more different from your brother than when he tells you these kinds of stories.

• 6:21Speaker 07

  And I, like, turn around, and the fucking guy is like a block away from us. Whoa. I just had fucking, like, these knives in his hand and, like, polishing his knives on his shirt and, like, looking at us.

• 6:34Speaker 03

  The critical difference between you and Connor is this. Long ago, without realizing it, you chose a kind of freedom. The kind that imparts stability and safety and that you pay for in unsubsidized loans, quarterly job reviews, happy hours with coworkers, boring party conversation, conferences with field practitioners, mid-century modern furniture, boxing classes, and dental checkups. And Connor chose a kind of freedom that comes with land projects, one-off jobs at biker festivals, wide-open mountain ranges from the Union Pacific Line, and that he pays for in a persistent smoker's cough, weeks on remote weed farms with fish fans, and being pursued in New Orleans by a guy with a knife.

• 7:17Speaker 07

  It was just like psycho-ass move. So, yeah, that was crazy. That's why, that's why I was talking to you.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Your brother thinks you are a judgmental normie, and you think he is a judgmental hobo. This is the shared cost of your divergent freedoms. You both pay for your choices with the degree of distance it puts between you. But you do love each other, and you are trying to be better, to be nicer, to be closer. This routine of phone calls, which began a few months ago, is your attempt.

• 7:47Speaker 07

  I want some water and eat meals. Yeah, we have a house. All right, I love you. We can cook and stuff. Yeah, I know you're not like, I'll see you later. Eating over a trash fire. Okay, I love you. Okay, there's nothing wrong with that.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  You do not return to the subject of your birth father tonight. There are no records of phone calls with Connor that week or the next. You assume his impulse to look for your father is a passing one. You doubt you follow up. You went through your phase, of course, the one that you imagine most fatherless teenagers go through, in which your father's absence took on an outsized significance, in which your adolescent brain dissected and disassembled its meaning in relation to your sense of self. Was your fatherlessness why you felt so apart from others? Was his abandonment a sort of permanent wound on your psyche? Only one way to find out: write a lot of shitty poetry. None of those poems are recorded, thank God.

• 8:44Speaker 03

  But one vested remains: a play about two boys waiting to meet their father at a café. You wrote it when you were 17. It was called, perhaps a little over precisely, "Waiting to Meet Your Father," and was haltingly, painfully acted out by two fellow art students. What if he doesn't show? He will. And if he doesn't, I'll be okay. The central tension of the play is that the two boys are waiting at a café to meet their father, who they've never known. But he is running late, or maybe he is standing them up. The brothers argue about whether or not they should wait to find out which one it is.

• 9:28Speaker 03

  One boy is sure it won't be worth it. The other is adamant they stay. Do you think about him a lot? No. Do you? Well, sometimes. Like, we're about to fall asleep. It's usually while I'm not thinking that I think about him the most, you know? It's one of those things where when my mind is just drifting, I'll suddenly start wondering about him, and then I'll have to make myself do something to take my mind off him. The more I think about trying to think about him, the more I end up thinking about him. In the end-- Let's go. Are you sure? Yeah. Their father arrives a few moments after they walk out the door.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  You turned 20. On the eve of this new decade of life, you decided it was not worth it to actively think about your birth father anymore. It was not cool to still feel hurt about it, and so you could choose to feel nothing. And you plan to continue to do so now. You will not sabotage your brother's efforts, but you will not help them either. So you do not follow up with Connor about looking for your father, and Connor does not call. But there are also no records of other calls either. If you had recorded everything, you would hear three sessions here with your new work-subsidized teletherapist. The first, an intake session, a concise summarized biography of your life as it relates to your inner problems. You make radio documentaries.

• 11:37Speaker 03

  You won some awards for this last year.

• 11:39Speaker 07

  Whew, wow, hold on one second. There are two parts to this speech, and I was gonna keep it short, but what the hell, I got gold, so.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  You crave the attention and acknowledgement, and it also repulses you. You work at the most famous newspaper in the world, at one of the biggest shows in the country. Lately, you've been leaving early to see if anyone notices. They don't.

• 12:07Speaker 03

  You were raised by a loving, single mother in the Bay Area.

• 12:17Speaker 03

  You would hear yourself tell your teletherapist that your birth father left before you were born, and you've never met him, that you suspect, based on nothing more than an elementary understanding of Freud and a few Instagram therapy videos, that this is the root of some of your problems: daddy issues.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  You have a twin brother,

• 12:36Speaker 03

  but you're not identical. You probably make the same joke you always do, that you're sorry to disappoint your therapist. People are always more excited when they think there's some other version of you out there. Most relevant to your teletherapist, what you would like to fix about yourself. It is mostly one thing, which you are almost embarrassed to admit. You have the sneaking suspicion that you will never fall in love.

• 13:02Speaker 03

  Your last attempt officially ended the night of your 27th birthday. You and your ex shouting at one another beneath the rattling viaduct of the M Line. Your ex saying, "It's been two years. You need to get over me. I got over you in a week." I know you said, "I know", even though you didn't know.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  That is as far as you get. Your therapist calls it quits at the start of the pandemic. You build fortresses of routine to keep the mania of your confinement from creeping in. You quit smoking, start running. You record your phone calls. You tell yourself it's for a project you hope to make one day about this historic moment.

• 13:45Speaker 04

  Hi, Bonnie, how are you?

• 13:47Speaker 07

  Hello.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  Your aunt and your mom have been living together in Portland since quarantine began.

• 13:53Speaker 04

  I'm back. Your mommy's back, she's here.

• 13:55Speaker 07

  You're back.

• 13:55Speaker 04

  She's here. So is, does it go from bear to otter, and then to something else? Or does it, is it just?

• 14:03Speaker 07

  It's not like an evolution, it's just different groups.

• 14:09Speaker 04

  Twinks are a totally different category, right?

• 14:12Speaker 03

  This is your favorite kind of call. You get stoned and curl up in bed with the phone balanced on your cheek. You are still at 27, like most children. You like to hear stories of the world before you were in it, of your mother before she was your mother, like when her and your aunt were strippers at the New Century Theater in San Francisco.

• 14:32Speaker 07

  And what did you dance to? And what did my mom dance to?

• 14:35Speaker 04

  Um, I would dance to Bob Dylan a lot, actually. Believe it or not, but so did your mom. Well, yeah, but his Christian album. I'm gonna scandalize your nephew now. Your auntie did like the schoolgirl thing. Let's just be honest. Let's just be honest, yeah. Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 07

  Creepy, but I won't think about that.

• 14:57Speaker 04

  I know, I know, when you think about it, it's super creepy. I wanna warn you that my phone is... You know what, I'm gonna go upstairs and get the, get the cord, but I have to look at this message from your brother. Okay, now's your chance there, your mom's going upstairs.

• 15:13Speaker 07

  Um, what, um, what is her, what are her...

• 15:24Speaker 07

  Oh, did you ever meet my birth father?

• 15:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:29Speaker 07

  And what was your general impression?

• 15:31Speaker 04

  Um, he was okay. I only met your birth father a couple of times. I remember I met him once at the Zeitgeist, and he was really hella tall, for one thing. He was cute, he was like handsome.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  Your mother is not exactly withholding about your father. She answers the questions if you ask them, which you did a lot when you were a teenager. Your origin story has remained consistent, but unsatisfyingly brief. Your father was a line cook. He played in a rockabilly band. They met at a bar called the Zeitgeist, dated for a while. She got pregnant. He wasn't ready to be a father. She decided to keep you. For a while, she exchanged letters with his mother. But your mom says she was always justifying his choice to not be involved in your lives, so they stopped communicating. Your mother tells you his name, but says she can't remember how it's spelled.

• 16:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I met him a couple of times. I thought, I mean, he seemed nice, he was nice to me. He was polite, he was like clearly trying to like make a good impression on me because I was like your mom's friend. Yeah, and he was just, he was very tall.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  The pandemic inspires inexplicable life choices. Some friends buzz their hair, others experiment with sobriety. You move to Los Angeles. You are surprised to find that your next-door neighbors, a young white couple, rarely return your greetings. You live in the heart of a gentrifying Central American neighborhood. When you speak to the cashier at the corner store in Spanish, she responds in English. You want to tell her that you're not like the rest of them. Your grandmother's from Santana. You couldn't have afforded to live here a few years ago. You moved here to be closer to something. You're just not sure what or how.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Connor is driving his truck up and down the Pacific Coast Highway. He's waiting to be called in to the wildfires, but so far, nobody has called, and he's spent the summer sleeping in his truck. On April 18th, 2021, a little over a year after he first calls you to ask to look for your father, he texts you a series of screenshots. There of an exchange between him and someone from a DNA testing website, a distant relative. You bought a kit for your family a few years ago and forgot about it. In the exchange, Connor asks if there's someone in this distant relative's family with your birth father's name. "Yes, in fact," says the stranger. A few days later, Connor receives your birth father's first and last name,

• 18:12Speaker 03

  for the first time, spelled correctly. When you search your birth father's name in public records, it returns a result in Los Angeles, in a suburb 40 minutes away from you.

• 18:23Speaker 07

  I mean, how do you feel about it? I feel good about it, yeah, I feel good about it. For me, I feel, like, the first day that we kinda got the info, I was like, I'm kind of excited.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  It has been a long time since you've heard Connor excited about anything. It's sweet and unnerving. To say no would be disappointing for him, a betrayal of your attempts towards closeness. But the thought of meeting your birth father inspires very little feeling in you, besides a nascent hope that you might finally finish a project.

• 18:57Speaker 07

  I mean, do you feel like that, like, if you met him, that... Do you feel like you won't get anything out of it? I guess I'm just like trying to figure out like what... You know, like, I feel like we're both almost 30, you know? It's just like, you know, like, what is this guy gonna tell us about ourselves that we don't already know? I hear you, because it's like, I'm not interested, I was like, I don't really give a shit. About, I mean, I do give a shit. I do give a shit about meeting him. I don't, I don't like, like, I don't know. Do you ever like, look in the mirror and like, say like, like, think about dad? Or like dad, our biological dad?

• 19:38Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, definitely. You ever like, it's like, I find myself always looking and being like, I don't even know what our family looks like. I have mom to compare that to. I like, oh, it's like, I have mom's face in a lot of ways, but I also wonder what our biological dad looks like.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  You have tabs open to several potential fathers on Facebook. A series of white men in rimless or squared sunglasses with varied hairlines and gradient pallid shades. Your top contender sports a buzz cut and a pair of gas station sunglasses. He's an amateur photographer who takes pictures of animals at the zoo. I found one picture of a person who kind of looks like he could be related to us maybe.

• 20:25Speaker 07

  Yeah, I saw one that maybe did. I was like, damn, he's pretty ugly. I don't know. Is it the guy with the black hair and the sunglasses on? Yeah, that guy. I was like, is that really mom's type before she started dating really boring dude?

• 20:39Speaker 03

  You have not told your mother about any of this, and you're not sure you will. It is very different, you think, to ask questions about your birth father than to meet him.

• 20:49Speaker 07

  And I'm curious about what he's, what his life is at.

• 20:53Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 20:55Speaker 07

  I also hope he's fallen. No, I'm just kidding.

• 21:03Speaker 03

  Suddenly, it's June again, almost exactly one year since you arrived to Los Angeles. One night, you will absentmindedly Google your father's name and Los Angeles. The screen will populate with the same buzz cut guy with gas station sunglasses, but now there are two new images. The first is a man standing beside a barber chair. He looks like he was ripped from a Time magazine article from the 50s. Tall, a pencil mustache, slicked back hair. There's an interview with him. He owns the barber shop. He grew up in California, moved to Los Angeles in the mid 90s. Before he was a barber, he says, he was a cook.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  The second image is of him standing in front of the shop. It looks familiar. You will type the address into Google Maps. You ate dinner across the street from the shop two nights ago. You will type in your address to measure the distance between you and this barber shop. A short, nearly straight line will appear, and an estimated arrival time from your apartment.

• 22:11Speaker 03

  Five minutes.

• 22:25Ira Glass?

  Coming up, some decisions that need to be made. Stay with us.

• 22:30Speaker 01

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• 22:34Speaker 04

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• 22:50Ira Glass?

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• 23:23Ira Glass?

  This American Life, our story today from Sarah Kavato continues.

• 23:37Speaker 07

  Hello?

• 23:38Speaker 03

  You've read that there are several theories about the origins of language.

• 23:42Speaker 07

  Yeah, so I'm gonna be in and out. I'm like, in this weird bunker room right now. I think it's where, like, people who work the crew of Amtrak sleep.

• 23:56Speaker 07

  Got you. So should you not be in there talking on the phone?

• 24:02Speaker 07

  No, I don't think it matters.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  One theory suggests we learn to communicate by imitating nature. Another says we learn through song.

• 24:10Speaker 07

  No, I just mean like, you know, to be considerate of other people. Oh, okay. Well, then that's fine. I wasn't sure if there were. Sorry. Yeah, I'm not fucking, I'm not, I'm not talking to you on the phone while people are sleeping. Connor, I'll talk to you, I'll talk to you soon. I'll talk to you soon. If you're gonna be an asshole. Don't have bad judgment of me. I'm not talking on the phone in front of people who are sleeping. That's a ridiculous thing to think. I know.

• 24:32Speaker 03

  These theories of language suggest that either suddenly or over a long period of time, primordial grunts and hums evolved into words. And words allowed us to hunt and pass on knowledge, to gather food and stay safe, to share beliefs and traditions, to express feeling and connect.

• 24:51Speaker 07

  Connor, I was making, I was just trying to be lighthearted. You don't need to be such a drama queen about it. I don't think you were. Thank you for being judgmental. I was, Connor. But. Connor. I'm over it. It's a small thing. It's a small thing. Drop it. Yeah, it's a small thing. Can we drop it? Can we drop it? You can drop, you drop it. I am dropping it. Good, I'm dropping it too. You wanna hear about all the work that I did for you? Or what? Should we move on?

• 25:16Speaker 03

  It's hard to believe that this conversation between you and Connor is the culmination of epochs of human development. And that's because a stubborn, critical defect is demonstrated in your and Connor's exchange. That no matter how language evolves, no matter how we choose to use it, there's always a chance that somewhere between thinking, speaking, and hearing, our intention and meaning will be lost.

• 25:42Speaker 07

  It's not, it's not a big deal. And, and. No, okay. Let's move on. Let's move on. Let's move on. We both apologize. Let's move on. So, um, basically.

• 25:54Speaker 03

  On your computer screen are seven discreet tabs tucked next to your work email. They've been open since last night. The first tab, the article about your birth father's barber shop that you found yesterday.

• 26:07Speaker 07

  You said the shop is nearby. Do you know what kind of shop he has? It's a, it's a barber shop. Oh, he's a barber?

• 26:15Speaker 03

  The second, third, and fourth tabs are a mosaic of images from Google, Facebook, and Yelp. There's your birth father, standing behind the barber chair, or behind the wheel of a classic Cadillac. There he is, in a tiki bar, or squinting into the sun, his pencil mustache, his eyebrows, and the slits of his eyes, creating five distinct planes across his face. His pompadour catches an errant sun ray.

• 26:40Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, he's like a rockabilly dude, which, which is a big red flag to me, just in general.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  The fifth tab is the map with directions to his barber shop. A short, nearly straight line measures the distance between you. Five minutes.

• 26:55Speaker 07

  He's right there, next to you. That's so wild, actually. That's, it's kind of like, baffling.

• 27:03Speaker 03

  The sixth tab is the barber shop's Yelp reviews, in which your father is rated from a scale of zero to five stars, with additional notes included. He averages about 4.1. According to the anecdotal evidence in these reviews, he is either the nicest, or the worst man they've ever met. He's unforgiving of lateness, condescending, rude, a quote, "complete asshole", or fastidious, a perfectionist, the best men's barber in town.

• 27:36Speaker 07

  Here's a really good picture of his face, that I can see it close. Mm-hmm.

• 27:41Speaker 07

  The one where he's standing behind the barber chair? Wow. Wow. That's our, that's our daddy, right there. I see, I see you in him.

• 28:06Speaker 07

  Thanks for doing all the hard work, finding all that. No, thank you. I love you. You're welcome, I guess. I don't know what you're thanking me for. Well, you're, you're the one who found the name, so. I mean, it's. It's not all, not all my work.

• 28:24Speaker 07

  I know it's not, but thank you.

• 28:28Speaker 07

  All right. Yeah, I love you. All right. I love you too, brother. Let me get you in the loop. Yeah, I'll text you tonight. Bye. Okay. All right. Love you. Bye. See you later. Bye.

• 28:50Speaker 03

  It's summer in Los Angeles 2021. You are 28 years old and you have a routine. You wake up, you answer an endless stream of work emails and Slack messages, which fill you with an unearned rage and dread. You smoke weed, which relaxes you or puts you on edge with no in-between. You cook chicken and coconut rice and eat it standing at the wall-mounted table in your narrow kitchen. Sometimes, your friend Sarah picks you up and you drive around L.A., attempting to commit to memory the geography around you. You forget it by the time you've walked through the front door. You smoke a cigarette in the parking lot behind your apartment. You scroll on Instagram. You swipe on dating apps.

• 29:31Speaker 07

  I'm going to record myself on Tinder, because that is what I have been doing lately.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  You can't say exactly what you're looking for. It's easier to say what you are not.

• 29:43Speaker 07

  By says hiking, gym, 5'9". No, thousand mile away, no. No, no, no.

• 29:56Speaker 03

  You don't want to date an artist, too earnest. You don't want to date a banker or a real estate agent. And frankly, bankers and real estate agents don't really want to date you either. Your teeth are slightly crooked. You have never in your adult life seen your abs without yanking the pouch down on your stomach. Also, you're bad with money.

• 30:14Speaker 07

  His job is entrepreneur, which, what the fuck is an entrepreneur? I'm gonna say no.

• 30:21Speaker 03

  No athletes. You smoke and drink and do drugs that keep you from waking up before sunrise.

• 30:26Speaker 07

  Patrick, let's go on a hike and then eat what we just burned off. No. This person is like, I love having fun. Like, who doesn't like having fun?

• 30:35Speaker 03

  You don't want to date anyone who makes regular pilgrimage to Disneyland or feels affiliation with any of their characters or Harry Potter. This turns out to be particularly damning criteria in Los Angeles.

• 30:47Speaker 07

  He plays golf with his friends. Yeah, this is not gonna work. Just a picture with no bad vibes today. Text over it. No, thank you. No, he's a singer. No, thank you. He looks like he's got big arms that he could wrap around you, but I'm gonna say no. Okay, guys being dudes is the name of this one. Come get sandwiched between two men. No, thank you. I mean, yes, but not with them.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  You don't want to date someone who only has white friends, but you're also afraid to date someone who is so connected to their cultural background that you feel like a white person in comparison, with your unplaceable face, Afro, and Gaelic name.

• 31:27Speaker 07

  Far leftist progressive. Oh, shit. Okay, and how would you? Oh, fuck. Uh, well. This is the funniest part, too, is that you get all in your head about saying yes and no, and then they never swipe for you. So it's sort of a useless exercise.

• 31:59Speaker 04

  What, baby?

• 32:01Speaker 07

  Hi, Mama.

• 32:03Speaker 04

  How are you?

• 32:05Speaker 07

  Good. How are you doing?

• 32:07Speaker 04

  I'm doing good. I saw your brother yesterday. He was super sweet.

• 32:13Speaker 07

  Hello, yeah?

• 32:14Speaker 04

  Hello? Yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 07

  Yeah?

• 32:17Speaker 04

  So how are you feeling about what he wants to do?

• 32:23Speaker 03

  The truth is, you don't feel anything about meeting your father. You know that in theory, this is big. You're about to meet someone who once meant something to you and now means something else. But you won't be sure what until he's in front of you.

• 32:39Speaker 07

  I don't know. It's cool. I don't know. I don't know how I'm like, I mean, how do I feel about it? It's hard to say, you know?

• 32:48Speaker 04

  Well, I love you guys and I hope that you get what you need from it. And yeah, I'm glad you're doing it together.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  You find an email address on the barber shop's website. You click into the always-open email tab on your computer and start a new message. Your first words to your birth father will forever be archived in your inbox between updates to your credit score, calendar reminders of work deadlines, and your lease renewal. The cursor ticks an even measure on the blank draft. This blank space must be filled with something specific. A particular alchemy must take place, a certain tone struck. Whatever fills this space must be firm, but not aggressive, humble, but not shrinking.

• 33:37Speaker 07

  Do you have any idea how to start? How about, hello, I know this is a bit out of the blue, but I'm sending this message on behalf of my brother and I. We think you are our biological father. Start with that preface thing you're talking about. We're not looking to get anything from you. How about this? I know this is a bit out of the blue, but I'm sending this message on behalf of my brother and I. We think you are our biological father. We're not... That sounds so formal and weird. We don't need anything from you. We're not asking for anything.

• 34:21Speaker 07

  I might want to ask him for something. I'll be like, hey, can you pay for my schooling? Connor, please don't ruin this before we've even had the chance to meet him, please. I won't, I won't. Yeah, it still sounds formal. It still sounds like... What are you... We love to talk, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you could be like, we think that you might be our biological father, whatever. We're really hoping that we could meet you and fill in the blank, something personal. We're both nearly 30.

• 35:02Speaker 07

  And have always wondered about who you were. Yeah, that sounds good to me. Does that sound good to you? Yeah, I'm sending it. All right. Ready? Three? Yeah, mash that motherfucking button. Sorry. Yeah, I'm ready. You can count down if you want. What should I put as the subject line? Say, like, Happy Father's Day. Papa, can you hear me? No. Are you my daddy?

• 35:41Speaker 07

  Long-lost kid in search of biological father. It's a long subject. Uh, not just... Dad? Question mark? I'm just gonna put, hello from Connor and Sayre. How about that? Reaching out. All right. One, two, three. All right, I did it. Nice. Now we wait.

• 36:16Ira Glass?

  Our story continues after a break from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors.

• 36:27Ira Glass?

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• 37:09Ira Glass?

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• 37:14Speaker 02

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• 37:42Ira Glass?

  It's This American Life. We are in the middle of excerpts from Sarah Kavato's new series, Reaching Out. Let's pick up where we left off.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  You wait four days to hear back, but nothing. There's no way to know the message was received, that it didn't end up in his spam folder, or that a coworker didn't delete it, assuming it was a phishing scam. But the notion of these possibilities is enough to convince you that it's worth reaching out once more. So you call the shop.

• 38:19Speaker 07

  Hello? Hello? Hi.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  He's in the bathroom, says the voice on the other end of the line.

• 38:24Speaker 07

  So it's Sayre, S-A-Y-R-E, yeah, and Connor, C-O-N-N-O-R.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  You leave your names and number.

• 38:33Speaker 07

  Sure, it's 510. What do you think? Do you think he's actually in the bathroom? I don't know. It's like one of those things that could be true, but it also could be a really lame excuse, and it's hard to know. Yeah. Well, if he calls you tonight, you should let me know. Yeah, I will.

• 39:00Speaker 03

  You don't hear back, and you don't call back either. You and Connor don't even discuss it. It seems to go without saying that to reach out a third time with no response would be pathetic. Sometimes, in the weeks after, you find yourself driving past your father's shop. You peer through the window, hoping to catch his face. It's not that it particularly matters to you. You've just become habituated to looking for him.

• 39:55Speaker 03

  You've gone out alone again tonight. In the month since quarantine was lifted, this has become your weekend routine. You stay out at your neighborhood bar until close, with your back to the wall and your eyes on the door. You're waiting for someone to walk in who will change the course of your evening. Hours pass like this, lost continents floating at the bottom of your pint glass. At an interval of every hour, you ask the universe for a sign that it's time to go home. But if it's sent, you're too busy watching the door to notice.

• 40:28Speaker 06

  All right.

• 40:34Speaker 06

  I am walking home.

• 40:46Speaker 06

  I'm drunk.

• 40:50Speaker 03

  Last call is over. Now you're stumbling home, feeling bad for yourself, of course.

• 40:56Speaker 06

  Thought that...

• 40:59Speaker 06

  stupidly.

• 41:02Speaker 06

  Thought that if I

• 41:06Speaker 06

  went to the nearby gay bar next to my house, that I might need someone, but no.

• 41:19Speaker 03

  You're on Santa Monica Boulevard now. The leather bar you visit on other nights, sometimes the same night, is to your left. You won't go in tonight. You're already too drunk. This circuit is your Bermuda Triangle. And somewhere along the vertices, you blackout. The only evidence of whoever's navigating your body is in these recordings.

• 41:41Speaker 06

  Nothing's nothing.

• 41:45Speaker 06

  It's all bullshit. All of it.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  To attempt to intuit what bullshit you are referring to from this side of the veil is impossible. Could be anything. The bullshit of this age, this time. The bullshit of leaving your home only to find that the world is exactly as you left it. But with more rules, more distance, more death and indifference. The bullshit of risking disease waiting for someone to notice you at a bar. The bullshit of knowing that's a waste of time. The bullshit of wanting it anyway. The bullshit of steeling yourself against disappointment by expecting nothing, only to find yourself still disappointed when nothing is exactly what you receive.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  And then this. Whatever this is.

• 42:40Speaker 06

  I'm gonna pee.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Tomorrow's headache creeping in as you piss behind a tree.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Same bullshit. Your bullshit. Followed by a bean burrito at 7-Eleven.

• 42:54Speaker 06

  Same bullshit. Every day.

• 43:00Speaker 06

  Same shit. Every day.

• 43:04Speaker 06

  Nothing matters.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Connor and you know there is only one option left. You have to go and meet your father in person. But you haven't talked much since calling your father's shop. And choosing a date is an overturn your conversation with no resolution.

• 43:43Speaker 06

  What's going on? What are you doing? Good. I just woke up a bit ago. I'm gonna take a shower. Oh, nice. You just woke up? A little bit ago. It's 1:30.

• 43:57Speaker 06

  I know. It's crazy. You never set me dates. I know, because a bunch of things happened. Which, why I was calling you about. Anyway.

• 44:16Speaker 06

  Fuck, dude.

• 44:20Speaker 06

  I'm really distracted. I'm sorry. I know. Why did you call me while you were doing something else? Do you want to just... You can tell? Just call me. Yeah, but just, just... You finish one thing and then do the other. Finish one thing and then do the other. Don't do both at the same time. Just choose one thing and then do the other.

• 44:39Speaker 06

  You're grumpy? I am grumpy. Not my fault.

• 44:46Speaker 06

  It's not your fault, but don't call people while you're doing other things. You want to talk at a better time? When you're less hungover? No, I wanna, I wanna... I've been trying to get a date. I've been trying to get a date from you for like the last two weeks. So just tell me. I know. Well, Sarah, it's really fucking hard with what I do for work. And I don't think you really understand that. And I don't blame you for it. It's just like, there's like an understanding of seasonal work that I don't think you get. But it's like, you really like, you just like kind of put your life on the line and really hope that you get work. You know? I don't have as much freedom as you, in some sense. Like, I probably can't make it down. At least until December, which I'm totally okay with doing,

• 45:31Speaker 06

  if you want to, but I don't understand. I'm gonna be out of town in December, so I can't do it then. Okay, what, do you want to do January? I mean, do you want to do it? I guess like, that's the thing I want to figure out. Do I want to? Do. Yeah, I mean, do you want to do it? Like, I guess, do you have to see him? Like, I don't know. Like, what are we gonna do? Like, go up to him and... Like, what are we gonna get out of that, you know? Uh... I don't know. I mean, I just want to talk to him. I want to meet him. I want to know, I want to know his health problems.

• 46:09Speaker 06

  I want to know his family, some shit.

• 46:15Speaker 06

  You know? I don't know. Just basic things like that. See what he's like. If he's a dick, if he's cool, if he likes to party. I don't know. You don't know? Definitely a story.

• 46:31Speaker 06

  What do you want out of it?

• 46:34Speaker 03

  Connor wants to meet your father on the most physical plane. Cash, genetics, ancestry. You're not sure what you want. It's hard to say without knowing what you can ask for.

• 46:46Speaker 06

  I don't know if I want anything out of it. Yeah. I think that's okay too. But, you know, I guess... If you don't want to do it, I'm not gonna do it either, you know? I'll do it if you want to do it. No, I'm... No, I'll do, I want to do it because you want to do it, so... I said, I guess we'll both do it.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  One day, you find yourself standing across the street from your birth father's shop. You don't intend to show up. It's as if you've come out of a trance. You look up, and you're there. The fall's high sun beats down on your shoulders as you stare through the window.

• 47:23Speaker 06

  Did you see him? Mm-hmm. I smoked a cigarette and watched him work.

• 47:30Speaker 06

  What was that like for you?

• 47:32Speaker 03

  You watch what you believe is your father's silhouette. His hands working over the client's head. Four months since you emailed, four months since you called. And all you have to show for it is this impotent act.

• 47:45Speaker 06

  And I felt sort of like, you can't do shit to me, you know? I'm like, you don't, you're not...

• 47:54Speaker 06

  You can't affect me. You can't stop me from being here, you know?

• 48:01Speaker 06

  And I guess maybe a little hurt too, like the feeling of like, oh wow, like you're just like, living, continuing to live your life like you always have. You know? Like, I did think about the fact that we like, sent him an email and left, gave him a call and left our number and that he's like, you know,

• 48:20Speaker 06

  still gets to live his life like he's... like nothing is different, you know?

• 48:25Speaker 03

  The reason language so often fails us, despite eons of development, is not that we fail to choose the right words or that others stop short of hearing and then comprehending us, but that another, more honest meaning is forged between and apart from what we say in silence. Silence, unlike language, cannot be improved upon. It has its own clarifying syntax. It reveals what we are too afraid to put into words. It is in these ellipses that our full intention and meaning are revealed. And perhaps, it is our unwillingness to accept what silence declares, where our suffering truly begins.

• 49:04Speaker 06

  So you want to confront him? What is it that you want to... What do you want to achieve with the confrontation? I just want him to know that we exist and that... Yeah, and that it hurts that he didn't...

• 49:26Speaker 07

  Acknowledge us, but also that we'll be fine without him.

• 49:30Speaker 06

  By saying those things, you feel like what? Like, what will happen?

• 49:38Speaker 07

  I, I don't know. I guess in a weird way, like, I feel like I will be able to, like, get over my issues. Um, you know, like, I, I feel like, yeah, I feel like it'll be like I, you know, it's like I can finally move past that one thing, you know?

• 49:59Speaker 06

  So do you think that's actually true?

• 50:02Speaker 06

  I, I mean, that, that, you know, that makes perfect sense to me, to me.

• 50:08Speaker 06

  You know, that, that, that you would think that that would happen.

• 50:12Speaker 06

  You confront the thing that haunts you, you tell it, you end it. But the question is, does it really end it?

• 50:26Speaker 06

  That's the question. Does it really end it?

• 50:45Speaker 03

  You write your message on a blank sheet of printer paper torn in half. Of all of your attempted correspondences, this one is the most to the point. Name and intention. Why bother with anything else? "Hi," you write. "We're your sons. We've tried reaching out to you. We'd like to meet you. We've booked your five o'clock appointment. We'll be waiting across the street in front of the cafe and would love to speak. Connor and Sayer."

• 51:20Speaker 03

  I'm gonna write his name on the front.

• 51:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  I'm, I mean, the thing is too, is what if he's right there?

• 51:28Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm gonna, we're gonna hand it to him.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:31Speaker 03

  So he is gonna be right there.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  How are you gonna do that?

• 51:35Speaker 03

  You have booked your birth father's last appointment of the day at his barber shop. When he calls you up for your haircut, you'll hand him the note, telling him to meet you across the street.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  How are you gonna do that?

• 51:48Speaker 03

  Walk up to him and go, be like, "Hi, we're your five, I'm your five o'clock." One of us will have to do it. "I'm your five o'clock." Hand it to him and then we'll walk up.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Do you wanna do that?

• 51:58Speaker 03

  I can do it. Do you wanna do it?

• 51:59Speaker 02

  No.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Not at all.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  It's spring of 2022 in Los Angeles. You are 29 years old. It's been nearly a year since you first sent your email to your birth father, asking to meet. Nearly two years to the day since Connor first called you and asked to look for your birth father. Now your brother is here in front of you, hunched in front of the mirror, pulling his hair into two loose braids.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  It's 4:23 PM. Um, yeah, we should get going because we're gonna need time to park and stuff, too.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  You ready, Connor?

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  Just make sure I have everything.

• 52:54Speaker 03

  You're both quiet as you walk out the door.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Okay. How are you feeling?

• 53:15Speaker 03

  I'm scared. I'm nervous.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. What are you nervous about?

• 53:21Speaker 03

  That he's gonna be mean.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, he doesn't really have the right to be mean.

• 53:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that doesn't stop anyone from being mean.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  No, I know. But, I don't know. I mean, I, I have...

• 53:37Speaker 02

  I mean, I feel

• 53:40Speaker 02

  defensive of you. So if he was mean to us, I think about it as he's mean to you. Right? We're here more, I guess.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  That's mostly what I'm, I'm afraid of him being mean to you, too. I don't really care what he says to me. I don't want him to hurt you.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Same here.

• 53:59Speaker 03

  You pull down the driveway and onto the mile that separates you from your birth father. This street is ordinary to you now. In the nearly two years you have lived here, you have driven it hundreds of times, walked it, drunk, sweaty, in the rain. You've kissed strangers on this street, at midnight, mouth full of ash. Time widens the aperture. Certain features pass flat against the windshield as you drive. Others stay inexplicably in the fore. The laundromat that you went to the day you arrived here. The bar with the barnhouse facade, which you will never step inside of the entire time you live in Los Angeles. The White House with busts lined across the roof and a headless angel in the

• 54:43Speaker 03

  yard. The psychic's front porch.

• 54:47Speaker 03

  What time is it?

• 54:48Speaker 02

  It's four, four, 4:34. 4:34.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, we're outside of it.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  This somehow got so much harder now that we're here.

• 55:11Speaker 03

  You are now 20 minutes early, which gives Connor time to reconsider the plan entirely.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Do you think we should try, I, I know we plan on doing the note, but do you think that we should call him?

• 55:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, but we already tried calling.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  But we call his barber shop and be like, "Hey, I got an appointment for him at five o'clock." We'll say, "Yeah, sure. Let me check."

• 55:36Speaker 03

  And then what? Say exactly what's in the note. Say we're outside.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  Hey, yeah. This is your sons.

• 55:45Speaker 03

  What if he hangs up?

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Then we go in there.

• 55:49Speaker 03

  And do what?

• 55:50Speaker 02

  We'd say, "Fuck you."

• 55:55Speaker 02

  I don't know. I'm, I'm okay with doing that.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  I've always wanted to say fuck you to Dad.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Do you wanna go in together? Would that make you feel better about it?

• 56:09Speaker 03

  I mean, if you want to, I'm, I'm done.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  I want him to look at us in the case that he decides that he doesn't wanna deal with it, so...

• 56:18Speaker 02

  That he can at least do it once. If, if he decides to, to avoid conversation with us, at least going in there and him seeing my, our face.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  I can be like, "Hey, I'm here." And I see you.

• 56:50Speaker 03

  Okay. Two minutes.

• 57:01Speaker 03

  One minute. Till five?

• 57:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  You ready?

• 57:19Speaker 02

  Are you?

• 57:21Speaker 03

  As ready as I can be.

• 57:38Speaker 03

  The first words your birth father ever says to you. "Do you have an appointment?" Yeah, five.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  You sit down and wait your turn. You can barely get yourself to look up at him. You fix your eyes first on the wine-colored tiles, then the client's sneakers slack against the footrest, the shapeless, oversized, black barber's tarp. Then, your father's hands as he trims stray hairs, chatting easily over the jazz music playing softly over the speakers. The walls are lined with framed photographs of what you assume were once famous Hollywood actors, whose faces you do not recognize and names you do not know. In the corner, the magazine rack full of vintage Playboy magazines. Your birth father brushes clean his client's forehead and nape with a blonde duster brush, says goodbye cheerily.

• 58:30Speaker 03

  He glances over at you and Connor and then calmly walks to the back door of the shop. He disappears for five seconds, then 10, then 15. He returns with a broom and slowly, methodically sweeps the hair into a dustbin and then the trash.

• 58:52Speaker 03

  You imagine everything leading up to this moment from his point of view.

• 58:59Speaker 03

  Today, he woke up, probably had a coffee, kissed his wife goodbye.

• 59:05Speaker 03

  Drove to work, attended to some regulars, made small talk about the relief of 70-degree weather or the impending invasion of Ukraine as he lined up their beards and hairlines. Took a quick lunch break, scrolled on Facebook on his phone.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  10 minutes ago, he probably looked up at the clock, saw two young guys walk in, and felt a wave of relief. The last customers. As he finished sweeping the hair into a bin, he was probably hit with the feeling of relaxation that comes with knowing that the day is nearly done.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  Now, he calls those boys up to the chair. One of them, the curly-haired one, who can barely look him in the eye, pulls a note from his pocket and hands it to him.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  His name is written on the front.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  And both boys walk out, wordlessly.

• 59:58Speaker 03

  And now, what has been up until this moment a very ordinary day, has become a monumental one in just a few seconds.

• 1:00:42Ira Glass?

  So what you just heard was made of excerpts from the first three episodes of Reaching Out. The podcast comes from Futuro and KCRW. We are right now leaving off the story in the middle of episode three, and I really encourage you to go hear what is about to happen. Some big, big turns are right ahead. It's very satisfying. Then episode four comes out later this week, and you can actually listen to all six episodes right now if you subscribe to Futuro Plus. And if you dive in that way, maybe go back to episodes one and two, they contain stuff you have not heard in our excerpts today. Reaching Out is produced, written, and sound designed by Sarah Cibedo, editing by Maria Garcia, original music by Lucy Little, mixed by Stephanie LeBeau, executive produced by Maria Garcia and Marlon Bishop.

• 1:01:27Ira Glass?

  The people who put our show together today include Nadia Raymond, who produced this episode, Adrienne Lilly, Tobin Lo, Andrea Marx, Stone Nelson, Ruthie Petito, Anthony Roman, Ruby Schwartz, Lily Sullivan, Frances Swanson, Christopher Sotola, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu. Our managing editor, Sarah Abdurahman. Our senior editors, David Kestenbaum and Nancy Updike. Our executive editor is Emmanuel Barry. And just one last reminder that we are doing a live show this Friday, coming right up, October 9. And we are going to be live streaming this. For all of our This American Life partners, you have to be a life partner to see this that night. I will be telling stories onstage, and then this group of amazing comedians convened by the very funny Vic McAlister are going to improvise scenes based on the stories. We did this once before.

• 1:02:12Ira Glass?

  It was really, I have to say, completely incredible. It was so fun. If you want to watch this live, sign up right now. Do not delay. Do not miss this show. It's coming right up on Friday. You can do this at thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners. When you do that, you'll also get access to all of our bonus episodes. You'll get ad-free listening. You get all kinds of other stuff. And of course, don't just do this out of selfishness and what you get. Hopefully, some part of you will take pleasure in supporting what we are doing here by helping us fund it each week. Again, thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners. Do it before Friday to get access to the show. That link is also in the show notes. This American Life is delivered to

• 1:02:56Ira Glass?

  public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Troy Malatia. You know, whenever he returns from lunch, this is what he says to me. I don't know what to make of it. I'm back. Your mommy's back. Thanks, I guess. I'm Ira Glass. Back next week with more stories of This American Life.

• 1:03:25Ira Glass?

  This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Troy Malatia. You know, whenever he returns from lunch, this is what he says to me. I don't know what to make of it.

• 1:03:39Speaker 04

  I'm back. Your mommy's back.

• 1:03:41Ira Glass?

  Thanks, I guess. I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

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