339. The Write Stuff: Finding the Words for Life’s Hardest Conversations

“Being present is really at the center of listening. Nothing really happens unless we're present.” Some of the most important things we need to say are often the hardest to put into words. Whether it's expressing gratitude, offering an apology, or saying goodbye, slowing down and taking the time to write can help us communicate with greater thoughtfulness and meaning. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart https://www.fastersmarter.io/, Matt Abrahams speaks with Frish Brandt https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/frish-brandt/, professional letter midwife and author of Unfinished Business: Writing the Five Essential Letters of Your Life https://bookplease.ai/brandt/unfinished-business-writing-the-5-essential-letters-of-your-life?podcast=think-fast-talk-smart. Brandt shares why letter writing can be as valuable for the writer as the recipient, how to move past the fear of a blank page, and why thoughtful communication requires more than finding the right words. Takeaways: Slowing down makes communication more meaningful. Thoughtful writing helps us process emotions, find the right words, and express ourselves with greater intention. Better listening starts with being present. Setting aside our own thoughts and judgments creates space for empathy, understanding, and stronger connections. Activity: Write the unwritten letter. Write the first few sentences of a letter you've been putting off, whether it's a thank you, an apology, or something left unsaid. Focus on expressing what you genuinely feel rather than finding the perfect words. Printable Expanded Takeaways & Activities https://ae82bqismksvlodf.public.blob.vercel-storage.com/TFTS%20Frish%20Brandt-NVKbVXASb1jHXLu5ywJ7LEKVGweQwa.pdf Episode Reference Links: Frish Brandt https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/frish-brandt/Frish’s Book: Unfinished Business https://bookplease.ai/brandt/unfinished-business-writing-the-5-essential-letters-of-your-life?podcast=think-fast-talk-smartEp.114 Communication Means Paying Attention: The Four Pillars of Active Listening https://www.fastersmarter.io/114-communication-means-paying-attention-the-four-pillars-of-active-listening/ Connect: Premium Signup >>>> Think Fast Talk Smart Premium https://www.fastersmarter.io/premium/Email Questions & Feedback >>> [email protected] Transcripts >>>Think Fast Talk Smart Website https://www.fastersmarter.io/339-the-write-stuff-finding-the-words-for-lifes-hardest-conversations/Newsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>>FasterSmarter.io http://fastersmarter.io/Think Fast Talk Smart >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/think-fast-talk-smart/,Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thinkfasttalksmart/, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6caGRBUYZCmgDGM2RK6mxKB9jG_ccmm3Matt Abrahams >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maabrahams/ https://learning.fastersmarter.io/?redirect_from=podpageChapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:03) - The Art of Letter Writing (02:00) - The Five Essential Letters (03:19) - Writing for Yourself (04:06) - Slowing Down Communication (05:33) - Getting Started With Letters (06:55) - Writing Meaningful Letters (08:13) - Overcoming the Blank Page (10:21) - The Power of Cathartic Writing (12:21) - Writing Authentic Apologies (13:39) - AI and Writing (15:45) - The Art of Deep Listening (17:58) - The Final Three Questions (22:11) - Conclusion ******** Thank you to our sponsors. These partnerships support the ongoing production of the podcast, allowing us to bring it to you at no cost. Strawberry.me. https://strawberry.me/quiz?isDirect=1&promotionCode=smart&utm_source=smart Get 50% off your first coaching session today at Strawberry.me/smart https://strawberry.me/quiz?isDirect=1&promotionCode=smart&utm_source=smart Join our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community and become the communicator you want to be. https://learning.fastersmarter.io/?redirect_from=podpage

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Matt Abrahams?

  Hi, Matt here. I wanted to remind you that for each episode, we provide English language learning support where we share useful information to help you develop your English skills. Check out these English language learning and other resources, along with our newsletter and deep dive videos at fastersmarter.io under Resources. And now a word from our sponsors. Their support covers the cost of production, allowing us to bring you this episode free of charge.

• 0:28Matt Abrahams?

  The real value of coaching is what it helps you see and what it helps you do differently. I have been coached and I have coached others. And for me, the value is clarity. Seeing what you're doing well, where you're getting in your own way, and what you can do differently. And if you're watching this, I'm guessing you're someone who wants to keep improving. That might mean communicating with more confidence, becoming a stronger leader, or getting clearer about your next career move. strawberry.me is like therapy for your career. They match you with a coach who fits your goals and gives you practical, personalized guidance you can actually use. It's all designed to make coaching more financially accessible. And because it's online, you can use it from anywhere in the world.

• 1:11Matt Abrahams?

  Visit strawberry.me/smart to get 50% off of your session and make sure you tell them Matt sent you. Slowing Down. Holding your thoughts and the thoughts of others can dramatically improve your communication. My name's Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

• 1:41Matt Abrahams?

  Today, I'm excited to chat with Frish Brandt. Frish is a professional letter midwife and the author of Unfinished Business: Writing the Five Essential Letters of Your Life. For over a decade, Frish has guided people in finding the most important words to write for critical personal messages, including letters of gratitude, apology, and goodbye. Drawing on her 40-year background in the arts, she now lives in San Francisco and Santa Cruz, teaching essential letter writing and deep listening at Stanford University's School of Medicine. Well, welcome, Frish. I am so thrilled to have you here. And ever since we met, I've been excited to have you on the show. Thanks for being here.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  I am delighted to be here.

• 2:21Matt Abrahams?

  Excellent. Shall we get started?

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 2:23Matt Abrahams?

  Okay. You call yourself a letter midwife. What does this mean? And what is it that you do?

• 2:31Speaker 01

  I help people find their words. A lot of people have letters that they're afraid to write, that they don't know where to begin, they don't know how to navigate. And my job is to encourage them to do that and to find their words.

• 2:45Matt Abrahams?

  And what is it specifically about letter writing versus typing a Substack or writing an email?

• 2:54Speaker 01

  The thing about a letter, whether it's handwritten or typed, and even whether it's sent electronically, though I prefer on paper in any form.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  So much of our lives are digital and so much of it is ephemeral, and we can't distinguish one from the other. For the listeners who have a letter, they know the difference. And the other listeners who wish they had one, they know the difference too.

• 3:20Matt Abrahams?

  I hosted a party. You came. And you wrote such a lovely thank you note. And what was cool is it was a handwritten note that came on nice stationery. And it was just lovely to get a handwritten note that came with care and thought. So, thank you. Your book's subtitle is The Five Essential Letters of Your Life. What are those five letters? And what makes them essential?

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Well, there's a few caveats.

• 3:48Matt Abrahams?

  Okay.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  But we'll start with the answer would seem to be, thank you, I'm sorry, I miss you, I love you, goodbye. And then there's two for extra credit.

• 3:59Matt Abrahams?

  Of course.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  And the two for extra credit might in fact be the solar plexus of the book. I think the title is useful and hopefully inviting and enticing, but it's not the whole story. And there's a few things to know. One, you could start with any one of those letters. Write, I have an apology I want to write. I have an I miss you. But it will morph into one of the other letters, maybe two of the other letters. And at the heart of it, every letter is really a love letter. Because that's really what brings it, even if it's a you pissed me off letter, we care enough to say it. So, and we're trying to resolve something.

• 4:39Matt Abrahams?

  I have one of each type of letter that you just delineated in mind that needs to be written, or I would benefit and perhaps the other would as well. The letters that you help people write, who are they for? Are they for the recipient? Or are they for the writer of the letter?

• 4:57Speaker 01

  The truth is, when I started this practice 11 or 12 years ago, I thought for certain it was for the recipient. But I learned really early on, actually with a woman with ALS, and it was advancing quickly after seven years.

• 5:13Matt Abrahams?

  And that's a neurological disease?

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Yes. I realized very early that it was really for the letter writer first. So, to your question, it's for both. But the letter writer is served by it first.

• 5:25Matt Abrahams?

  We're going to get to this in a moment, but I'm going to be very curious about the process you take people through. But I want to quote something that you write. You write that letter writing is to communication what slow cooking is to fast food. The slow pace is fundamental to the end result. Can you unpack that analogy? I'm a sucker for a good analogy, and I like that one. How does slowing down help us communicate better?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Again, I think that we are in such a fast-paced world. I'm as haunted by the fact that a quick text, suddenly I look and I go, what did I just type?

• 5:59Matt Abrahams?

  Right.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  You know, so I think so much communication happens so quickly. Sitting down with a piece of paper or one's keyboard to think out a letter. Science is in that thinking and writing are deeply connected. And if we give up the writing, our thinking suffers.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  And we know the correspondence that we tap out really quickly and the one that we sit quietly with has a different tenor. The same way that a dinner made from frozen food or a dinner cooked slowly has a different tenor.

• 6:36Matt Abrahams?

  Yeah, the feeling and the emotion.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:39Matt Abrahams?

  You know, are really different.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Just like cooking is also for the cook, I think that that's the writing. That's why the letter also serves the letter writer first, because they're generating something from deep within.

• 6:51Matt Abrahams?

  Right. And it takes time to do that.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  And it takes time.

• 6:53Matt Abrahams?

  So, walk me through the process you would walk somebody through like myself in needing to write or wanting to write one of those letters.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Okay. You said you have a few letters you know you need to write. I'm not going to make you reveal anything. But when I do this with people, and certainly when I do it in workshop, everyone needs to focus on the letter or letters that they think they want to write. So, focus on one of those letters.

• 7:16Matt Abrahams?

  I'll be very candid. I'm going to think about a gratitude letter. I want to say thank you to some people who I hope know that I'm grateful, but I'd like to actually put an exclamation point on that.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  My question really would then be, what are you waiting for?

• 7:29Matt Abrahams?

  I mean, I'm busy and it's easy to put in the back burner, to use your cooking analogy, but there's nothing.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  And wouldn't you feel good if by the end of the day or the beginning of tomorrow, you had actually written the first sentence?

• 7:42Matt Abrahams?

  100%. I would feel very good about that.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Do you think I can have your buy-in on that?

• 7:47Matt Abrahams?

  I'm being led down a path here, Frish. Yes.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Well, you asked me to lead you down a path.

• 7:51Matt Abrahams?

  I'm fully on board.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  And I hope that your listeners too are thinking, ah, right, I do have that thank you letter. Thank you is such a great place to begin because a thank you is always welcomed, no pun intended. And it feels good. You know, there's so many things that are divisive. It's so constructive. And it never comes at the wrong time. It's kind of like money.

• 8:16Matt Abrahams?

  I agree. And we have had several academics on the show who've talked about the power of gratitude.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:20Matt Abrahams?

  Sonia Lubomirsky studies this and has studied it and really powerfully affects not just you, but the person that you're expressing gratitude to. So, happy to learn how to do this and to initiate. So, how do we do it?

• 8:32Speaker 01

  How do we do it?

• 8:34Matt Abrahams?

  What's the process?

• 8:35Speaker 01

  When I'm doing it with someone, I drill down with other questions so that it's not just, thanks for the beautiful vase, you know, or thanks for dinner. It's, I met so many interesting people. In fact, I think I met my new best friend. Or it reminded me of a party I went to when I was a kid. Or my parents used to tell me about parties like this. So, it's a matter of going further. How can I go further? What might I wish someone noticed about the party I threw? I'm not saying that my thank you note to you covered all that ground.

• 9:07Matt Abrahams?

  It did a great job. And you did, you definitely revealed how the gathering we had had impact on you.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:14Matt Abrahams?

  So, it wasn't just expressing gratitude for hosting. It was gratitude for the impact.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  So, the point is, how can one go a little bit deeper? How can one look from a slightly different angle at that thing? You know, whether it is a vase, or whether it's a dinner, or whether it's a walk in the woods?

• 9:34Matt Abrahams?

  I really like that it's about reflecting and reflecting about the impact. And it's not just for letter writing in any communication. If you think about your audience and think about the impact. And it leads to, if not a full-blown story, it leads to some elements of a story. And we connect through story. I appreciate that. I've been reflecting as you've been speaking. Part of why I haven't done this or written this letter is I really don't know how to start. I know how to end. I really want to say I appreciate it and I want us to continue developing our relationship, et cetera. How do we get from the blank page to something?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  You could start anywhere. And if you know where you're ending, then just put that down. And it may end up being the launch. And then you could say, I didn't even know where to begin this note, but I wanted to be sure to say this. And I didn't want any more time to go by.

• 10:25Matt Abrahams?

  That's interesting.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Without having said these things. I know that if something happens, I want to be sure you know how important this was to me.

• 10:35Matt Abrahams?

  I really like that idea of disclosing. I'm struggling with how to start this.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:39Matt Abrahams?

  And that vulnerability, I actually think, can be endearing.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Many a good letter starts with, this is awkward. And whether it says that or it's just that feeling. So, owning it. In thinking about the conversation we would be having, I thought, you do so much of your work with people in terms of their speaking, and here a letter. Lasts. We know that the connection that we make with someone can be resonant, but a letter lingers. You know, we change, but the letter doesn't.

• 11:12Matt Abrahams?

  I love that language. A letter lingers. And it really does. I mean, I'm a pack rat. I keep lots of stuff. I have notes that we used to pass in elementary school from the girl I liked, or, you know, when we were saying something about the teacher. But they really do last. And what's interesting is when I read them, besides being amazed at my handwriting, I instantly I have an emotional response. There's an emotional connection. It opens up a door. And there's a power in that. And we can harness that power in all of our communication. But I think the letters do that in particular. I want to talk about a specific type of letter. You advocate for writing cathartic letters, highly charged, angry, raw letters that you explicitly instruct the writers

• 11:51Matt Abrahams?

  never descend and to immediately destroy. You call this both an exercise and an exorcism. And of course, I love the play on words. Why is writing something that we intend to destroy so useful and helpful for us?

• 12:05Speaker 01

  We're carrying it around with us. It's taking up space. It's kind of nipping at our heels, you know, biting us in the neck. I don't think any of us really want to carry that. That's taking up the space that gratitude, for instance, or regard can take. So I advocate for writing it to just get it out. And it is possible that in the process of getting it out, that one will get to a place where, oh, I think I could tell this one, this person, this thing, this part, because if we want, this is where the love comes in. If I don't want to give up that friendship or that collegiality,

• 12:46Speaker 01

  how do I just say, you stepped on my toes that day. I've had bad days, too. I think it brings out our own empathy, both for ourselves and for the other person.

• 12:57Matt Abrahams?

  Yeah, I like that idea of self empathy that can come through the catharsis of just getting things done. There's some research that I'm familiar with in the, in the literature on anxiety around communication, that writing down the fear, literally getting it out of your head and somewhere else can be helpful. And somebody took that even to an extreme and said, okay, once you write it, take the paper, crumple it and throw it away. And just the, the thought that you have that sense of agency to do that is empowering. And so I really can see how writing down an emotionally charged letter could, could be helpful.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Right. And conversely, I think writing down the, the warm letter has a similar impact on the positive spectrum of emotions.

• 13:42Matt Abrahams?

  Interesting. Your work often involves helping people say high stakes words, like, I'm sorry, forgive me, I forgive you. These are incredibly difficult messages. What communication advice do you have for structuring an apology or request for forgiveness so that it lands authentically and avoids triggering defensiveness? Because you risk that when you bring up these types of communication.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  I recently had an experience like this. I don't want to go into too much detail here, but one takes the path. I think the reason why writing is a, is a gerund is because it's an act. It's not generated. I think that it is difficult. Apologizing is difficult. One of the beautiful things about doing it in writing is that one has the time to gather their thoughts, and the recipient has time to receive those thoughts. I think one still has to exercise some of those basic tools of mirroring and empathy and validation. And you can do that in speaking or in writing or both. It's difficult. But the beauty of

• 14:47Speaker 01

  a written apology is you don't have to respond right away. You can look at it, look at it again, look at it again, rethink your words, maybe have a friend read them back to you.

• 14:59Matt Abrahams?

  Oh, interesting. Yeah. I like the, the thoughtfulness that a letter of apology or asking for forgiveness brings. Thank you. AI obviously is helping people write a lot of things these days. AI can be a very useful tool in helping us with our communication. I'd be curious to get your thoughts on where AI fits in this process.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  It can be a good partner. We're just the pioneers right now. We're just at the edge of the, of the territory. But if I understand correctly, or, and how I use it, and how the people I know use it, the catch is that it is a great thought partner. But writing is a verb, and you have to do it. It's not computers process. We write. We might do some processing in our heads, but we're not talking about just generating a letter. We're talking about, not to play on the midwifery, but we're really talking about birthing it, or at least bringing it into existence. And that is an act. It's

• 16:01Speaker 01

  not a noun. And so I think AI can be very helpful, especially to the earlier questions about how the heck do I get started? I think there's nothing wrong with using it as that, but really recognizing. You know, I have a friend through Stanford who's at the forefront of AI and virtual reality. And I'd seen on his screen when we were having a Zoom, that he had written a toast to his mother and a letter to his oldest son on it. And I said, how did that go? And he said, well, ultimately, it didn't work. I found I had to dig deep inside myself to write the letter. Otherwise, the writer doesn't have the experience. You don't get to process.

• 16:44Matt Abrahams?

  I talk a lot about empathy atrophy that can happen with AI, if you don't do that deep thinking. A friend of mine said, you know, when you're, whatever LLM tool you use, when it says it's thinking, it'll put thinking, dot, dot, dot, that's actually a cue to you to start thinking.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 17:00Matt Abrahams?

  You know, so it's not the machine. It's, it's like, hey, you need to be thinking about this as well. And I like that a lot.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:06Matt Abrahams?

  You co-teach a class called Lasting Letters and the Art of Deep Listening. It's Stanford School of Medicine. In communication, we spend a lot of time teaching people how to speak, generate messages, but very little time teaching them how to listen. What does deep listening look like in practice? And how can we train ourselves to be deep listeners?

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Well, it looks pretty much like this.

• 17:32Matt Abrahams?

  For those of you who are listening and not watching, Frish tilted her head, smiled and widened her eyes. Okay, what's going on in the, in your head as you do that?

• 17:43Speaker 01

  I think listening is silencing my, the chatter that's going on. I'm not thinking about what I'm going to say next. I'm holding what you're saying. You know, when I think about good communicators, one person that I thought of was Frank Ostasewski, the Buddhist teacher who spends a lot of time bedside. And much of my work is, is the foundation is in hospice and palliative care. Being present is really at the center of listening. Nothing really happens unless we're present.

• 18:14Matt Abrahams?

  I like that definition of listening, of being present. And the thing that really struck me is, I have not thought of this before, but this idea of holding. In communication, you're holding the other person present, you're holding the moment present, you're holding back your thoughts and judgment and evaluation.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Let me give you a somatic exercise.

• 18:33Matt Abrahams?

  Please.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Sometimes when something's coming at me across the table, for instance, I'll hold my hands open.

• 18:41Matt Abrahams?

  Oh, interesting.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  It just slows me down. It keeps me present so that I can receive what's coming.

• 18:48Matt Abrahams?

  I'm a big fan of embodiment of our thoughts. And a lot of people, if you watch, I coach a lot of executives on tough Q and A, question and answer situations. And instinctively, when something is asked that they don't like or they're concerned with, hands come up, looks very defensive. And that's a response, a physical response. And I like what you're doing is you're cueing yourself. I need to be open here and hold something by, by opening. I like that. I think there's a lot of power in that. Thank you for sharing.

• 19:20Matt Abrahams?

  Hi, Matt here. One thing I've learned is that having a strong idea is only part of the work. You also have to help people understand why it matters to them. Before an important conversation, I ask myself, who am I talking to? What do they care about? And how can I make my message relevant to them? That kind of practical learning is what I appreciate about MasterClass. You can explore more than 200 classes or go deeper with a MasterClass certificate course focused on a specific professional skill. I recommend strategic communication. Build trust, drive decisions, lead with influence. My own class is included in the certificate course, which offers practical approaches for getting your ideas heard, building support, and communicating with greater influence. You'll also complete

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• 21:23Matt Abrahams?

  Thank you for sharing everything you've done. You know, before we end, I love to ask three questions. One, I'm going to make up just for you, and two, I've asked everybody for a long time. Are you up for that?

• 21:31Speaker 01

  I'm up for that.

• 21:32Matt Abrahams?

  When we started, you said that there are two bonus letters. What are those letters?

• 21:37Speaker 01

  They are legacy letters, which could easily be to our children or our children's children. But it could also be to our niece, or it could be to the young boy around the corner, or it could be to a sibling. It may be to a parent. I would say legacy letters of that kind. Sometimes they're considered ethical wills. In the Jewish tradition, there's such a thing as ethical wills. It's as good a model as any for this. And the other one is writing to or from our future selves. Because it's a trick. We think, sometimes we're stuck, but if we just pretend that my 90-year-old self is

• 22:19Speaker 01

  sending me a letter, I get some wisdoms that just pop up. And vice versa, if my younger self says, hey, you're doing a good job, or you could lighten up a little bit on this part of your life.

• 22:31Matt Abrahams?

  We did a whole episode on communicating with your future self and the value that it can bring. I love that it's legacy and the time-traveling

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:40Matt Abrahams?

  ...letter. Question number two, who is a communicator that you admire and why?

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Well, besides Frank Ostasowski for his presence, I was thinking about the conversation between Krista Tippett and John O'Donohue, which is so exquisitely beautiful. And John died just months later. But he said some things in it. First off, she was, she is a very gifted interviewer because she listens. And it is a, though I'm not a rock climber per se, I think a good conversation is like rock climbing. You pass each other on the way, and you're helping each other find your way. In John's quote, which I have here, he says, when was the last time you had a great conversation?

• 23:28Speaker 01

  You know, a conversation that took you someplace that you didn't know, that you heard yourself saying things that you had never really thought before, a conversation that stayed with you for days. And that doesn't happen just by doing all the talking.

• 23:43Matt Abrahams?

  No, not at all.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  It's the listening and the presence.

• 23:46Matt Abrahams?

  I appreciate that. And I appreciate that the communicator you picked was a conversation between two people. Thank you. What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Well, I think I've touched on all of them. And in either equal proportions and in no particular order, well, there's listening, needless to say, and there's empathy, and there's humility.

• 24:14Matt Abrahams?

  Tell me about the humility. You've definitely talked about empathy and listening.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  I think that we need to enter conversations knowing that we don't know, and not even knowing what we don't know, just knowing that we don't know. I think it's kind of like fly fishing. You choose your fly not exactly knowing, you can't see everything you're doing, but you are just, you're reading the signs. And I think, I was talking with Gordon before about musicians. I think musicians that play together, whether it's rock, or classical, or jazz, that they're a fabulous example of communication, because so much of it is unspoken. But I once sat in on a quartet practicing, and I was brought to tears by the communication

• 25:02Speaker 01

  that took place when nobody was speaking.

• 25:06Matt Abrahams?

  There is something magical in music. Humility is absolutely, I think, an essential ingredient. Thank you. And thank you for introducing everybody to Gordon. Gordon helps us record these shows.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Thank you, Gordon.

• 25:16Matt Abrahams?

  And we don't talk about him often enough. Great conversation, really helpful insight into how to communicate in a different modality than many of us do, and the impact that it can have on us and on others. I appreciate your time and insight.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you for having me here. I hope your listeners pull out a piece of paper and start writing a letter.

• 25:35Matt Abrahams?

  Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. I so enjoyed talking to Frish. Among her many ideas that she shared that stuck with me, the one that really stands out is holding somebody's thoughts in mind when you listen, and holding back your own thoughts when you listen. To learn more about listening and silence, please listen to episode 114 with Julian Treasure. This episode was produced by Catherine Reed, Ryan Campos, Alex McCarthy, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wunder, with special thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Have you ever wished you could get communication coaching exactly when you need it? Well, you can with Coach Matt, an AI coach trained on my work, spoken in my voice.

• 26:20Matt Abrahams?

  Go to fastersmarter.io and click on the Coach Matt pop-up to get 10 minutes of free advice. It's super easy and hopefully, super useful. Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.