311. Don't Lose the Room: How to Make Ideas Stick

"Know your stuff, practice, and then just do it and be there." How do you explain complex ideas without losing your audience? The challenge isn't knowing more—it's helping others understand. For Marketplace host Kai Ryssdal https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/kai-ryssdal/, great communication comes from making difficult topics accessible while holding people's attention. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart https://www.fastersmarter.io/, Ryssdal joins Matt Abrahams to discuss how to simplify complex information without oversimplifying it, conduct interviews that feel like genuine conversations, and communicate with confidence under pressure. From asking better questions to earning your audience's trust, Ryssdal shares practical techniques for staying present when the stakes are high. Key Takeaways: Complex ideas become powerful when they're easy to understand. Great communicators don't just share information—they translate it into clear, engaging messages that help others learn without sacrificing nuance. Preparation gives you the freedom to be present. The more thoroughly you prepare, the easier it becomes to listen, adapt, and communicate with confidence when the conversation takes an unexpected turn. Activity: Rewrite for clarity. Take an email, presentation, or document you've already written and revise it for someone with no background in the topic. Remove jargon, simplify explanations, and make sure every sentence helps your audience understand your message. Episode Reference Links: Kai Ryssdal https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/kai-ryssdal/Ep.220 Prep Like a Pro: Communication Confidence, Clarity, and Comedy https://www.fastersmarter.io/220-prep-like-a-pro-communication-confidence-clarity-and-comedy/ Connect: Premium Signup >>>> Think Fast Talk Smart Premium https://www.fastersmarter.io/premium/Email Questions & Feedback >>> [email protected] Transcripts >>>Think Fast Talk Smart Website https://www.fastersmarter.io/311-dont-lose-the-room-how-to-make-ideas-stick/Newsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>>FasterSmarter.io http://fastersmarter.io/Think Fast Talk Smart >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/think-fast-talk-smart/,Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thinkfasttalksmart/, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6caGRBUYZCmgDGM2RK6mxKB9jG_ccmm3Matt Abrahams >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maabrahams/ https://learning.fastersmarter.io/?redirect_from=podpageChapters: (00:00) - Introduction (00:59) - Making Complex Ideas Clear (02:24) - Find Your Communication Rhythm (03:30) - Keeping People Listening (04:38) - Better Introductions (05:50) - More Conversational Interviews (08:49) - Getting Conversations Back on Track (10:23) - Communicating Through Uncertainty (12:23) - Managing Speaking Anxiety (14:22) - Recovering from Mistakes (15:39) - Staying Curious (16:42) - When Your Mind Goes Blank (18:05) - The Final Three Questions (21:35) - Conclusion ******** Thank you to our sponsors. These partnerships support the ongoing production of the podcast, allowing us to bring it to you at no cost. Strawberry.me. https://strawberry.me/quiz?isDirect=1&promotionCode=smart&utm_source=smart Get 50% off your first coaching session today at Strawberry.me/smart https://strawberry.me/quiz?isDirect=1&promotionCode=smart&utm_source=smart Join our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community and become the communicator you want to be. https://learning.fastersmarter.io/?redirect_from=podpage

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Matt Abrahams?

  Hi, Matt here. I wanted to remind you that for each episode, we provide English language learning support where we share useful information to help you develop your English skills. Check out these English language learning and other resources along with our newsletter and deep dive videos at fastersmarter.io under Resources. And now a word from our sponsors. Their support covers the cost of production, allowing us to bring you this episode free of charge.

• 0:28Matt Abrahams?

  The real value of coaching is what it helps you see and what it helps you do differently. I have been coached and I have coached others. And for me, the value is clarity. Seeing what you're doing well, where you're getting in your own way, and what you can do differently. And if you're watching this, I'm guessing you're someone who wants to keep improving. That might mean communicating with more confidence, becoming a stronger leader, or getting clearer about your next career move. strawberry.me is like therapy for your career. They match you with a coach who fits your goals and gives you practical, personalized guidance you can actually use. It's all designed to make coaching more financially accessible. And because it's

• 1:08Matt Abrahams?

  online, you can use it from anywhere in the world. Visit strawberry.me/smart to get 50% off of your session and make sure you tell them Matt sent you. Know your stuff, practice, and then just do it and be there. My name is Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

• 1:39Matt Abrahams?

  Today, I'm really excited to speak with Kai Rizdal. Kai is the host and senior editor of Marketplace, an Emmy and Peabody award-winning daily show where he translates complex economic and business news into engaging, accessible conversations for millions of listeners. Before Marketplace, Kai spent eight years in the United States Navy and later served as a member of the United States Foreign Service. He's renowned for his signature conversational delivery and deep economic expertise. So, welcome Kai.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:08Matt Abrahams?

  I am a big listener to your show. I enjoy it every day. And I, a big thank you to Mary Beth Kirchner and JJ Yor for the introduction. Thanks for being here.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  I'm absolutely pleased to.

• 2:18Matt Abrahams?

  Okay, shall we get started?

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20Matt Abrahams?

  All right. You've got a unique gift of making sense of a lot of really complex, detailed information. A lot of the people listening in are in similar situations where they have technical, financial, scientific information they have to get across. How do you think about making that content accessible?

• 2:36Speaker 01

  It's important to understand that I am not a business and economics guy. I'm a history and political science guy from way back, right? I have not taken economics course number one in college or in graduate school. And until I got the job at Marketplace, I hadn't really given it much thought. So when I sit down, and this holds true for my entire time at Marketplace, when I sit down to write the show, I do two things. I have to make sense to myself what I'm saying, right? So obviously, I have to do some research and understand what it is, and then figure out how I'm going to explain it. And then, and this is the God's honest truth, I think about how I would help my mother understand it. My mom is an 86-year-old woman who, this is true, does not have an ATM card. Goes to the bank every Friday afternoon and cashes a check for $100 to tide her over until next

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Friday. So if I can make it make sense to her, then I think I'm doing all right. The caveat and the catch with that, of course, is that we have really sophisticated listeners to Marketplace, right? We have folks who work on Wall Street. We have folks who work in the industry. We have folks who work in every possible slice of this economy, and they understand in depth the things that I'm talking about. So make it understandable, but don't dumb it down. That's the challenge.

• 3:45Matt Abrahams?

  Right. Are there particular techniques that you rely on? Analogies, stories?

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Just a turn of phrase. This is sort of overly simplistic, but radio, audio, video aside, right? Because that's where podcasts are going, or already are, is a distinctly oral medium. And so it has to resonate with people. It has to come off my tongue in a way that I know what I'm talking about. And then it has to land with them in a way that they're going to be able to absorb it, so that they're not trying to process the thing I just said while they're listening to the thing I'm saying now. So it's a little bit of wordplay. It's a little bit of humor. It's a little bit of self-deprecation. And then the nuts and bolts, right?

• 4:24Matt Abrahams?

  And you're so good at doing that. I really appreciate this idea that it's not just landing what you're saying in the moment, but you don't want it to distract them from what comes next.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  So that's the difference between audio and print, right? When I'm reading a newspaper article or a magazine article, if I realize that I've blipped out for a second and I can't remember what this guy's name is, I can scroll back. You can do that on a podcast, but you know, in broadcast audio, you can't. And if you have to do it on a podcast and in digital audio, you're kind of breaking the rhythm, you know?

• 4:51Matt Abrahams?

  Yeah, there is a rhythm to it. And you're very good at keeping things moving. There's a flow to the work you do. Are you conscious of that?

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, very much so. Very much so.

• 4:59Matt Abrahams?

  Tell me more about that.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  My job is to make everybody who's there at the beginning of the program, or the beginning of the podcast, or the beginning of whatever I'm doing, still be there at the end. So you weave that through the program. You make references to things you have said or are going to say. You talk about things that are coming up. Just make people still be there, you know? If you actually listen to a 28-minute and 45-second episode of Marketplace, which is how much time we have.

• 5:24Matt Abrahams?

  Right.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  My total content, on days that don't have a lot of interviews and me content, my total contribution is three and a half, maybe four minutes in 30-second chunks, setting up our reporters, right? So my job is to make those reporters' stories sing and to make people, at the end of my 30-second introduction, say, oh, wait, now I want to hear this story, and make them hang around for another three minutes and 30 seconds, or whatever it is. And so that's sort of what I do.

• 5:47Matt Abrahams?

  When I teach my students, I use the analogy of being a tour guide. A good tour guide gets people excited and keeps them moving throughout and wanting to see what's next.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  But doesn't give it away.

• 5:56Matt Abrahams?

  That's exactly right.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Right? Because if you give it away, then what are you even doing?

• 5:58Matt Abrahams?

  That's right. You have to make them curious without revealing too much. There's a skill to that. Speaking of the way your show runs, we had Peter Sagal on, who, wait, wait, don't tell me. And we talked about introductions. Many of us are in situations where we have to introduce people. You do a lot of introductions, just like him. Do you have a way of introducing people that others could leverage?

• 6:20Speaker 01

  So first of all, just on my own personal experience, and for those out there who wind up doing a lot of introductions, don't read somebody's CV out loud. Just don't do that, please. Not only is it mortifying, it's not edifying for the audience. Find something personal. Find an anecdote. Find something that's going to make it stick. That's the only thing I can say. Make it relevant to the people to whom this person is going to be speaking, right? Introduce them. Make them make friends, you know, in as short a period as you have to do it. Because that's what you have to do. And when I'm setting up an interview, it's me and this person for the next four minutes, and the audience has to be there. And if you don't have the audience with you, then you failed, honestly, right? And look, I'm a huge fan of Peter's, and Peter does this really well, you know? And he does it with humor. He has the benefit, actually, of having the live audience, right?

• 7:05Speaker 01

  So he's got that feedback mechanism. But, you know, just make people make friends. That's it.

• 7:11Matt Abrahams?

  I like what you said. To me, a good introduction, and you hinted at this, is it's an invitation. It's an invitation to want to hear more. And you're setting the other person up. And anecdotes are great ways to do it. So you interview a wide range of people, from Fortune 500 CEOs to a small business owner. And your interviews often feel very conversational, not very threatening. How do you work to make that conversation happen? It feels like people are just talking to you, even though there are many, many people listening in.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  So this is a methodology question, right?

• 7:41Matt Abrahams?

  Yes.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Obviously, there's a team of producers at Marketplace who do the booking of the interview. They'll do sometimes an initial conversation with that person, and then sometimes, you know, actually think about the questions they want to ask. And they give me basically a one sheet. And they say, listen, this is why we're going to do this person. Here are my thoughts on this, and here's a couple of questions. I take that and I internalize it. And then I put it away. And I will not go into a studio with a list of questions in front of me. I will have major points and things that really need to be said, especially if it's a big deal interview. Like if I'm talking to Jay Powell, you know, there's some things I have to ask him, and I'll note those down. But the name of the game is to be there. And by being there, I mean you have to listen. Because we can all hear when

• 8:26Speaker 01

  an interviewer is literally running down a list of questions and has not paid attention to the answer preceding the next question and just moves right on. And that makes me crazy. So be there. Be in the moment. Make it a conversation. Understand that you are in charge and you have to guide this person to where you want them to be. But it can't be just ticking through a list of questions, right? And sometimes, the best question is an interrogatory. Tell me more about that. Oh? Or sometimes, if it's a newsmaker who's blowing you off, come on, really? Just be there and be yourself.

• 9:00Matt Abrahams?

  Yeah. And connect what they're saying to what's important for you.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  And Marketplace has a very specific purpose, right? Our purpose is to raise the economic intelligence of the country. And so what you will hear in my interviews versus an interview that you hear on other shows or other podcasts, is me going with that lens, right? Let's figure out what the economic slice of this, what the business slice of this is, and help people understand that part of what it is that they're going to consume in the news that day. I'm incredibly conscious of that because that's our bread and butter, right? Our bread and butter is business and the economy as a lens to see the world. And that's what I do every day when I go into the studio.

• 9:39Matt Abrahams?

  So having a clear focus of what the goal is, the larger goal, being present and listening, and knowing that it's not just the questions you ask, but it's the responses to the question that keep it conversational.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  It's entirely the responses to the questions, right? Because the person you're talking to has to feel that they are in a conversation with you. If they feel they're on the spot, or they're just answering rote questions, then their answers change. That's death to a decent interview, and it's four minutes that my mom's gonna turn off the radio.

• 10:09Matt Abrahams?

  How do you keep an interview on track? Sometimes people wander, or they don't want to answer the question you ask.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, they do.

• 10:15Matt Abrahams?

  How do you bring it back?

• 10:16Speaker 01

  So that's two different things.

• 10:17Matt Abrahams?

  Sure.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  If they don't want to answer the question you asked, you have to ask the question again. And what I will not infrequently do is, after I've asked question A, they will give me answer X, right? And I will say, in these many words, "Let me try this again, and see if I can get a different answer." Right? So that they know that, number one, I'm not satisfied with what they said, right? But number two, maybe they'll frame things in a slightly different way. A really experienced CEO is gonna stick to their knitting and give you the stock answer. Somebody who's, you know, a regular walk of life, or running a small business, or what have you, is gonna probably recirculate. And then, the other thing is, you know, if they don't tell you what you need to know, you have to keep going at it, right? If it's an important thing, if it's an important interview, you have to get that information

• 11:02Speaker 01

  out there, because that's what the listener demands.

• 11:04Matt Abrahams?

  And when somebody goes off track or on a tangent, how do you pull them back?

• 11:07Speaker 01

  You gotta interrupt them sometimes, right? Sometimes you have to say, "Listen, let's put a pin in that conversation, and let's bring it back here to this other thing." Also, if you're doing a live interview is one thing, but if you're doing a taped interview, you have the power of the razor blade and the splicing tape, you know? And you can sort of save them from themselves.

• 11:22Matt Abrahams?

  One of the techniques I like to use when things get a little off on a tangent is to interrupt. I totally agree. But I do so with a paraphrase, where I'll highlight something that they've said, and then pull it back. But, again, it comes back to that being that tour guide, where you know where you want to go, and if we start going off, we gotta pull it back.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  And the catch, of course, is finding that moment, right? Because you don't want to be rude, you don't want to really interrupt them, but it's your job to keep the train on the tracks, for sure.

• 11:43Matt Abrahams?

  And the rudeness piece, I think, is a really important point. When you're, you don't want to be rude to the guest, but you're being rude to the other people, the audience, if you don't do it. So you've gotta weigh those. There's a lot of emotion in some of the things that you talk about, anxiety in particular, you know, when we're talking about economics, what's going on in the world. How do you thread that needle of acknowledging the emotion, the anxiety in the moment, but also not getting people so upset and fearful that they tune out?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  We had this conversation a lot in the early days of the financial crisis, going on now 20 years ago. Because the news, much as it is today, was really, really grim. And it was economically and financially scary. And our conversation was, what's our job? Is our job to make people feel better? Or is our job to help them understand what's happening, and then they can process it how they want? And we came down on, we have to help them understand this, right? And we can't sugarcoat it. So let's address the anxiety, let's address the fact that these are scary, scary times, and then go from there. With them having the information, I had done about, probably 10 years ago now, an interview with the CEO of Marriott.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  I went to New York, went to breakfast with him in a Marriott hotel, and we had a great conversation, and it was really good. Arnie Sorenson, CEO of Marriott, formerly. Anyway, early in COVID, I discovered that he had been diagnosed with stage four cancer of some variety or other. And it was like terminal, and he knew that. And so we got him back on the show. Because he hadn't stepped down yet, but he was clearly dying. And we did it on video, actually. And he looked like a stage four cancer guy. And we had a whole conversation about his scary moment in these really scary times. It landed with me, it landed with listeners, and you just have to go there, right? And, look, I've been doing this for a while now, and I think listeners trust me to take them there.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  I think about that interview a lot, actually. That was a moment, right? It was a moment. And you just have to lean into it.

• 13:43Matt Abrahams?

  Acknowledging that there is anxiety around this, and saying, "We're gonna get through this together, but you're better off understanding it."

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Knowing it.

• 13:50Matt Abrahams?

  And that way, people are willing to go that distance. And I think the point you made is that there's a trust that people have in you that allows that to happen. I want to deal with anxiety specifically, about anxiety you might feel. You've been a fighter pilot, a diplomat, you're a live, on-air host. For many of us, those would be anxiety-filled situations. Do you have some things that you do to help you manage your anxiety that others of us could benefit from?

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Here is my mantra. And it makes my producers crazy when I say this out loud, but it is truly what I believe. If you think about how you sound in front of a microphone, while you're sitting in front of a microphone, you're gonna screw up how you sound on the microphone, so don't think, just talk. Okay? Now, that's not to say, "Don't be prepared." It's not to say, "Don't think about what you want to get out of it before you go sit down in the studio." It's not to say, "Don't be your prepared best," right? But once you get there, and this goes back to the thing we were talking about before, about being in the conversation, once you get there, the only way to be there is not to think about all those other things. Just be there, and have that conversation. It sounds silly, but in a way, that's calming, right?

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Because if you know you've done your homework before you get into the studio, you don't need that piece of paper, you don't need the producer in that ear. Once you're there, you have to be there. And if you're thinking about all that lot of crap, you're doing it wrong.

• 15:11Matt Abrahams?

  You know, a lot of my work in the last several years has been helping people speak in the moment and spontaneously. And it's exactly what you're talking about. You can do a lot to prepare. People always sort of cock their head when I say you can prepare to be spontaneous, but it's that planning. And then when you show up, you just do it. It's like an athlete. Athletes do lots of drills.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  And, look, there are some people who can actually not think about it, and show up and be spontaneous, and be great. That's not most people.

• 15:34Matt Abrahams?

  That's correct. That's correct. So what helps you to manage some of the fear is that you do a lot of prep, then you just focus and come to it?

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Then I know when I get in the room, I know what I'm doing.

• 15:43Matt Abrahams?

  So if something doesn't go the way you want, a question doesn't come out right, you say something that you're not happy with, in the moment, what do you do with that? And after the fact, what do you do with that?

• 15:52Speaker 01

  So I try really hard not to fix things after the fact, right? So when we're doing a taped interview, and I screw something up, and I know I've screwed it up, I will actually correct it in the next moment, right? The next moment I have in that interview, just to go back and be honest about it. Sometimes my producer will be on Slack and say, "Listen, it's 42, not 17," or whatever, but just fix it right there, you know?

• 16:13Matt Abrahams?

  Right. And not beat yourself up about it, because you can then get in your head, saying, "I can't believe I made that mistake, I said the wrong number." You have to still be in that moment. Mike Krzyzewski, the famous basketball coach, taught his players this idea of next play. So you screw up, you keep going.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  So I'm a high school and college soccer referee, and it's the same deal. Because if you don't let the mistake that you made by not calling that foul, or missing the handball, or whatever, if you don't let that go, you will surely miss the next one. And it's a 90-minute game, and you gotta be there for all 90 minutes of it. That's exactly right.

• 16:46Matt Abrahams?

  You're a ref. I find that really interesting, given what you do for a profession. I see some commonalities of that. But, absolutely, you can carry with you that issue, and that in and of itself is a skill that's hard for people to manage to let go.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  It's really hard.

• 17:00Matt Abrahams?

  And I like to distinguish between rumination and reflection. I think reflection's really important, that's how we learn and we grow. But if we ruminate in that moment, it's gonna cause everything else to fall. You ask a lot of questions. How do you stay curious about that? I mean, it can become sort of mundane, but you seem genuinely interested.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  I am a genuinely curious person, and that's the rewarding part of being a journalist. My job, you know, people always say, "Well, the host's job in a radio program is to be a, you know, a stand-in for the audience, and ask them what they want to know." And sure, yes, to some degree, but my job is to be respectful of the guest, and respectful of the audience's time. And to try to elicit from them, you know, things that I think the audience is gonna find interesting. And the only way to do that is to be curious about what they do. Sometimes it's manufactured curiosity, and sometimes it's genuine. But the name of the game is, don't let that show. Be there, ask those questions, and hope the audience gets something out of it.

• 17:49Matt Abrahams?

  And even in those manufactured moments, there's something in there that is interesting.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. There's always something that makes you go, huh! And, which, by the way, if you're listening to the answer, leads you on a different path, and it takes you off of that prepared list of questions, right?

• 18:02Matt Abrahams?

  That's right. Is there a question that you have that you go back to if you need a question in the moment? Do you have a favorite, or a go-to, or not so much?

• 18:09Speaker 01

  I smile, because me having a, me going blank in a big interview led to one of the most revealing answers we've ever had on Marketplace. But let me give you my go-to. My go-to for anybody is, in a business and economic situation, what's your worst nightmare? What'll keep you up at night? It gives me time to think and regroup, you know? And they will, sometimes the answers are revealing, and sometimes it's cutting-room-floor stuff, right? Sometimes it's good, and sometimes it's not. I was interviewing Janet Yellen once, between her time as Fed Chair and when she got the job as Treasury Secretary. So it's like 2018, 19. We went to her office in Brookings in Washington. When I go into those interviews, I don't have a piece of paper in front of me, because I like to be there and present with the person I'm talking to.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  And she finished whatever answer she had given to the question, and my mind just went blank. I just completely brain farted. And so I looked at her, and I said, "Do you think Donald Trump understands economic policy?" And she looked at me and said, "No, I don't." And I was like, "Oh, my God. Oh, my God." Right? It came from me just not knowing what else to do, so I just came up with something.

• 19:14Matt Abrahams?

  Right.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  So, you know, just say something, right?

• 19:17Matt Abrahams?

  The biggest fear people report to me is the fear of blanking out.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  It happens to everybody, you know? I mean...

• 19:22Matt Abrahams?

  And the way through it is to do what you did, just throw out a question.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  The way through it is through it.

• 19:27Matt Abrahams?

  Yeah, really interesting. We'll be right back to finish our conversation. But first, we're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. Their support covers the cost of production so we can bring you this show for free. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. The best communicators don't just get their message across, they make it easy for people to know what to do next. Your website can do the same thing. With Squarespace, you can build a polished online presence that clearly shows people who you are, what you offer, and how they can work with you. If you offer coaching, consulting, classes, or other services, Squarespace lets you showcase those offerings, take payments, and use Acuity Scheduling so people can book time with you directly. And with built-in analytics, you can see how people are finding and engaging with

• 20:11Matt Abrahams?

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• 20:35Matt Abrahams?

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• 21:39Matt Abrahams?

  I end all of my episodes with three questions, and I'm going to make up just for you and the other two I've been asking people for a long time. Are you up for that?

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:46Matt Abrahams?

  In terms of what you do, how do you see AI impacting communication and journalism in general?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Well, so that's two different things, right? The issue of communication and fakes and all of those things is deeply troubling, not just on a journalistic level, but on a societal level, right? On a trust and on a mutual adherence to norms basis. I think that's really, really challenging. Journalism can be really, really helped by artificial intelligence, analysis, trend spotting, you know, all of those things. But AI writing articles and doing podcasts and all of which is capable of doing is not the way to a successful future for the United States and for the rest of the planet. You know, set aside the fact that it would put me and probably you out of a job.

• 22:30Matt Abrahams?

  Absolutely. Yeah.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  You know?

• 22:33Matt Abrahams?

  Right. So use it as a tool.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  It is a tool, right? But be smart. And let's have a human in that loop. And let's not just abrogate all responsibility and say, here you go, AI is going to take care of this, because it's not.

• 22:44Matt Abrahams?

  At the end of the day, communication is operationalized critical thinking. And if we let AI do that, we're missing out on this.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:50Matt Abrahams?

  Question number two, who's a communicator that you admire and why?

• 22:54Speaker 01

  The two that I've come up with are not spoken word people. Jim Fallows, formerly at The Atlantic, now on his own Substack, but for many years, an observational journalist of international affairs, national security, and a writer. I would read almost anything he's written, truly. Same thing goes for John Dickerson, late of CBS News and Slate. I just find those two guys really interesting to read. I'm really critical of spoken word people or television people because I'm so innately connected to that. Part of that's probably professional jealousy, part of it's probably envy somehow, but those are two who come to the top of my head.

• 23:33Matt Abrahams?

  Is there something that they do in their writing that's particularly, is it their thoroughness?

• 23:37Speaker 01

  They are, at the same time, very concrete and very big idea. And they have the ability to land that plane, if you will.

• 23:45Matt Abrahams?

  And that's, that's an art. Final question, what are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Know what you're talking about, but not to such a degree as you are paralyzed by the information, right? It's like you use the recipe thing. I will continue that analogy. You know, sometimes you need to pinch a salt, sometimes you need a half a tablespoon of salt, whatever, throw some salt in there. So know what you're talking about. Number two, some concept of brevity. If you are long-winded, you will lose people's attention. If you are too short-winded, you short-change your listener and the subject at hand. So find that happy medium between going on too long and just saying, all right, let's go. And then finally, I'm going to go back to my old standby. Don't think too much. Know what you're talking about, right? Item number one on this, know what you're talking about.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  And then, once you know that, once you've internalized it, then just be in the moment and just do it. Be present, be yourself, express yourself, and then the audience will react to you.

• 24:47Matt Abrahams?

  Know your stuff, be concise, and be present.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:51Matt Abrahams?

  Excellent ingredients and helpful for not just what you do, but for what all of us do. Kai, this has been fantastic fanboy moment for me. I really enjoy your show and I enjoy how you communicate and try to emulate some of the things you do. Thank you for your time and keep up the great work.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Absolute pleasure, Matt. Thank you.

• 25:07Matt Abrahams?

  Thank you for listening to another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. To learn more about similar communication, listen to Peter Sagal, episode 220. This episode was produced by Catherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wunder. With special thanks to the team at Spotify Los Angeles and Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also, follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram. And check out FasterSmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. Please consider joining our Think Fast, Talk Smart learning community at FasterSmarter.io/learning.

• 25:50Matt Abrahams?

  You'll find video lessons, learning quests, discussion boards, my AI coach, and book club opportunities. Again, that's FasterSmarter.io/learning to become part of the Think Fast, Talk Smart learning community. Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.