262. Own the Room: How Voice, Breath, and Body Work Together

How to tap the full power of your voice. Being present in communication isn’t just mental. It’s about the physical energy you bring into a space — particularly, says Patsy Rodenburg https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/patsy-rodenburg/, the presence of your voice. “The physical presence of the human being is the most important thing we have,” says Rodenburg. As a world-renowned expert in voice, speech, and presentation, she has helped everyone from stage actors to prime ministers hone their speaking and awaken the power and presence of their voice. “The vast majority of people are born with amazing voices, and somewhere along the line, they lose them. My job is to return people to their full power in their body, in their breath, in their voice, in their ability to speak in an exciting way.” In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart https://www.fastersmarter.io/, Rodenburg joins host Matt Abrahams to discuss embodied communication. From breathing techniques and managing tension to intentionally inhabiting space, Rodenburg’s insights reveal how to communicate with greater power, presence, and the potency of your voice. To listen to the extended Deep Thinks version of this episode, please visit FasterSmarter.io/premium https://www.fastersmarter.io/premium/. Episode Reference Links: Patsy Rodenburg https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/patsy-rodenburg/Patsy’s Books: Presence https://www.fastersmarter.io/presence / Power Presentation https://www.fastersmarter.io/power-presentationEp.137 When Words Aren't Enough: How to Excel at Nonverbal Communication https://www.fastersmarter.io/137-when-words-arent-enough-how-to-excel-at-nonverbal-communication/ Connect: Premium Signup >>>> Think Fast Talk Smart Premium https://www.fastersmarter.io/premium/Email Questions & Feedback >>> [email protected] Transcripts >>>Think Fast Talk Smart Website https://www.fastersmarter.io/262-own-the-room-how-voice-breath-and-body-work-together/Newsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>>FasterSmarter.io http://fastersmarter.io/Think Fast Talk Smart >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/think-fast-talk-smart/,Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thinkfasttalksmart/, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6caGRBUYZCmgDGM2RK6mxKB9jG_ccmm3Matt Abrahams >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maabrahams/ Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:05) - Foundational Voice Principles (04:07) - Activating Breath Through The Body (06:28) - Why Most Voices Just Need Use (09:58) - Defining Presence (14:11) - Using Space To Communicate (17:33) - The Final Three Questions (20:50) - Conclusion ******** Thank you to our sponsors. These partnerships support the ongoing production of the podcast, allowing us to bring it to you at no cost. Learn more about how Notion https://www.notion.com/?utm_source=podcasts&utm_medium=thinkfast can support your business at notion.com/thinkfast. https://www.notion.com/?utm_source=podcasts&utm_medium=thinkfast Join our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community and become the communicator you want to be. https://learning.fastersmarter.io/?redirect_from=podpage

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Matt Abrahams?

  In the moment, conflict is difficult for everyone. In our October newsletter, out now, you will learn ways to help yourself handle these challenges better. Not only do you get specific advice, we're also providing an infographic to help you remember. Find our newsletter on the Think Fast, Talk Smart LinkedIn page or at fastersmarter.io under Resources. To fully be present and in the moment, you must awaken your voice. My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. Today, I am delighted to speak with Patsy Rodenburg.

• 0:43Matt Abrahams?

  Patsy is a world-renowned expert in voice, speech, and presentation. With over 45 years of experience coaching across creative and corporate industries, she's the former head of voice at the UK Royal National Theatre and a director for the Royal Shakespeare Company. She has transformed how actors, prime ministers, CEOs, and global leaders communicate. She's written many books, including Presence and Power Presentation. Welcome, Patsy. I've been excited for our conversation for quite a while now. Thanks for being here.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  I'm so delighted. And Matt, I think you're doing something so important about communication, because I think it's what the world needs now.

• 1:23Matt Abrahams?

  Thank you so much. Shall we get started?

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Yes, please.

• 1:27Matt Abrahams?

  Excellent. You have worked with a number of famous people to help them with their presence and voice. I'd like to start with voice. What are some of the foundational vocal principles you provide when you coach?

• 1:40Speaker 01

  My work is about embodiment, and it's about a craft that is returning people to their natural selves. The good news is, the vast majority of people are born with amazing voices, and somewhere along the line, they lose them. And my job is to return people to their full power in their body, in their breath systems, in their voices, in their ability to speak and use language in an exciting way.

• 2:12Matt Abrahams?

  Beyond the embodiment piece, are there principles you help people with around breathing or articulation? Can you walk us through some of those exercises?

• 2:23Speaker 01

  So the first thing I would do is I would look at somebody's body and I would look at the tensions in the body, starting with the feet. The body is like a connected journey. We have to connect to our whole body to find our voice. So the feet, the front of the feet, the knees not being locked. If you lock your knees, that tension goes all the way through the body into the throat. A lot of people with very tight voices, if you look down, they're locking their knees. The next thing that's incredibly important in the body is that the pelvic area is on top of the hips. But most people today, when they stand, they're either pushing their hips forward, locking their knees, and all that builds into the body and up into the throat.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  But the important thing about the pelvic area is that that is where we have to breathe from. It's a very low breath down there. We also have to breathe quickly to think quickly. If we think without breath, it becomes a gabble. So if you put your hand on your lower abdominal area and just feel that, you should feel the breath goes down. And that takes a bit of time and it calms you. We get frightened when we speak because we forget to breathe. So if I move up through the body, the spine has to be up, not braced, not pulling your shoulders back, not slumped. If we brace or slump, we reduce our breath and the energy gets stuck in the throat, which is when those wonderful ideas you have, they come out on a monotone, not because

• 3:51Speaker 01

  you're boring, because your voice is held and tight. And the two last things, the shoulders being free. If you're getting nervous, if you feel your voice is getting thinner, the first thing you can do is just to think to yourself, release my shoulders, release my jaw. Because until the body's in place, you can't breathe. And we're looking to see no upper chest tension. You can put your hand on your upper chest, and if you breathe in, which most people do when they're nervous, the chest lifts. It shouldn't lift. Because as it lifts, I don't know if you can feel the back of the rib cage tighten means that you're not breathing because the lungs are at the back.

• 4:29Matt Abrahams?

  So it's balance of body and rooting yourself into the ground.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Yes, and looking out at the world. And of course, we know who we're going to listen to long before they speak. We know through their body. And if you're centered, you come on or you walk into a space with authority, with clarity. So the next thing I would do is open the voice with the breath underneath it. And you can feel this if you're sitting beside a desk, if you push your hands against the table. Remember your feet on the floor, the front of the feet on the floor. And you breathe, you will feel the breath go down.

• 5:01Matt Abrahams?

  Wow, that's a great activity. I'm doing that as I speak and I see what you're saying. It is fascinating to me that body leads to breath, which leads to voice. And by connecting those together, you can improve and open up your voice to do the things that we want it to do. I often will say, your voice is like a wind instrument. The more air you put through it, the more you can do with it. The limited voice work that I do, I recommend to my students and the people I coach, that reading out loud can be a tool to help because it mimics speaking out loud, but it gives you a little bit more cognitive bandwidth to pay attention to breath, because I don't have to think of the words, I'm reading them.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Read out loud, absolutely. Here's another trick, though. So if you stand with your book, maybe you're reading out aloud, and you're holding the book up so that you're not looking down, which is not useful. And if you hold the book with one hand and stand against a wall and gently push with your other arm, which engages the breath, just like it did when you were pushing the table, you'll feel the breath. Now, take a breath and read out, sending your voice to a point just above eye line. And then the voice not only leaves you, but it grows in strength. Most voices I meet, there's nothing wrong with them. They can be improved, Matt, but they're just rusty and dusty. They're not used, you know.

• 6:29Matt Abrahams?

  I often tell people in my mind, I'm amazingly eloquent, but when I open up my mouth, I'm not as lucky. You said several things there that really stand out to me. The voices you meet, I love that idea that we are our voice and we meet the person, but the voice they bring. And I like this idea of being generous enough to let your voice out. Your voice is a gift and you're giving it to the world. I want to get very tactical and practical here. Many people I know feel that their voice is quiet. They speak quiet. You said something that made me wonder. You said visualize your voice going out over your eye line. I imagine like an athlete warms up, that there are some things we can do to help warm up our voice. I often marvel that people think they can

• 7:13Matt Abrahams?

  go from silence to vocal brilliance without warming up. Do you have a favorite warm-up activity or two that you could share that we could practice perhaps?

• 7:22Speaker 01

  I'd get somebody standing, of course. You stand, you feel, you stretch a bit, you let the shoulders go. You might flop over to one side and breathe. The rib cage starts working. The rib cage gets very rusty very quickly. Do both sides so that we just get that very gentle, silent breath. So if you breathe quietly, you'll be amazed how wonderful it feels in the throat. It's open. And the other one, which is great, is to give yourself a hug. Just flop over a bit from the waist with your arms up against your chest. And in that position, breathe in and out, and you will open the back of the rib cage. I have to say, most people today don't even think that the back of

• 8:03Speaker 01

  the rib cage is important. But we know it organically so that if you get those muscles working, and then first thing in the morning, you have to get the breath underneath the voice. So here's an image. I mean, you're an athlete, you know these things, to throw the voice. So if you can throw a ball, if you just breathe in, there's a suspension and you throw the ball on the breath, just like you did when you were pushing against the wall. You're feeling the breath. If you can do that and hum. To a point, so you're just warming up the support of the breath, humming,

• 8:37Speaker 01

  very light. You can play it all over the place, ma, ma, ma, ma, ma, ma. You can play with your voice. And you're trying to get a buzz on the lips, which is the physical sign that your voice is coming forward. Most people today, their voice is stuck back down the throat, so they're mumbling down there. And if the voice is stuck down the throat, you can't speak clearly because the speech muscles can't feel the energy of the voice. Keep the breath, keep the idea of it leaving you. And then maybe on an "oo", that's a lovely way of getting the voice forward.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Just bringing your lips. And literally, if you did that for a few minutes and then you spoke a bit of text out aloud, or if you're having a difficult conversation, practise it out aloud. Walk around the house with purpose, with your presence. Walk around, looking around, look outside a window, breathe and practise what you have to say. Practise out aloud.

• 9:33Matt Abrahams?

  Thank you so much. I have heard of vocal warm-ups where you buzz your lips and puff out air. But I have never heard of working with the body, stretching the body. I like just leaning to the side, opening up the ribs, leaning forward, hugging yourself. Very useful. And I like that idea of visualising pulling the voice forward so we're not mumbling.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  What I'm doing now is I'm just imagining the voice projected out. It's not pushed, it's just you let it out. And within a few days, you will feel the difference. This is the simple stuff that people forget. They want to get on to the speech. Speech is the last thing in the chain. So, once you've warmed up your body and your breath and your voice, you can start moving your mouth about a bit. But these muscles will tune up very quickly, as long as they've got the voice and the breath behind them.

• 10:20Matt Abrahams?

  Yet again, you are emphasising the connection of body, breath and voice. I'd like to transition to talk about physical presence, something I know is very important to you. What advice do you have for anyone wishing to improve their physical presence in how they communicate?

• 10:36Speaker 01

  I think the physical presence of the human being is the most important thing we have. We don't do anything well in life unless we put our full presence on it. But it's, if you talk to anthropologists, what made us so powerful on the planet is that we could build teams. A team doesn't exist until everyone is present. And presence is having an energy connecting to the world around you. And we all have it. It's the survival thing that we do. But presence is an outward focus, not on yourself, but to something else. And it's what we do when we walk in the countryside. We become present because we look at a tree or a bird in a tree. That's what art is supposed to do. It's supposed to bring us back to our presence.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  We go to the theatre, the actor has to be present, the ensemble is present. And they help bring us back, as Shakespeare says, to be or not to be, that is the question. That is the question. And so I believe we're all born fully present, most of us. Very few people on the planet haven't got presence, so we have to refine it. I started this in the seventies and I created something called the Three Circles of Energy. Because I found people were saying, oh, that actor has it and that one doesn't have it, which is rubbish. We all have it. So what I talk about in presence is if we understand where we take our presence away from ourselves. And that's first circle. First circle people, you will often see it in their body, they're pulling their presence away.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  They're looking down, their shallow breath, so they're going into a little shell. And the voice follows, so I'm going to do a voice of first circle, when everything falls back. So instead of the voice going out, it's falling back. We can work in all sorts of ways on presence, but I would ask people to do exactly what I've talked about in the voice. And look out to the world and make sure that they're not in first circle, which is that pulling back. I used to call it denial. I used to call second circle a state of readiness. So any athlete I'd work with, I can get them immediately present because they know that they have to be present to win the game. Third circle is when people are bluffing and they push out.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  And you'll see third person energy pushing out their chest, they're too loud. That you meet at a party and they're looking beyond you, that they're not with you. So the most powerful thing we can do in communication is stay present with somebody, present with a group. And when it works and people become present with us, we have an exchange. You can't ever say anything important to somebody unless you're present and they're present. So we practice every day being present. And you can, by just sitting, breathing to a point, and looking at something across the room, or imagine doing something that you do very well, then you'll realise you're present. If you drive very well, you're present. If you, craftspeople are present. You don't make a great table without putting your presence

• 13:27Speaker 01

  into it. And we can physically say to ourselves, look, I've just pulled back on my heels, my shoulders are rounded, my sternum has collapsed, my head, and my breath is very shallow, and I've just absented myself from the world.

• 13:42Matt Abrahams?

  I like this notion of the circles, and that the happy medium is in between the pulling and the pushing. It seems to me that it starts with awareness. You have to have that awareness of where are you in that moment. And certainly, different emotions, different situations might cause you to start in one place, but once you have that awareness, you can move. And it sounds to me that we can check in with our bodies, that there are physical tells of where we are to bring us more to that neutral place.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  It's about generosity and curiosity. If you're curious and you're generous, you're generally present. Now, the thing that you've said that's so important is that the physicality that we're talking about, that stops the breath and the voice, either pulling away in first circle, or pushing out in third, that stops us being aware of our presence. It cuts us off from the world.

• 14:33Matt Abrahams?

  When you and I very first chatted, and it was a lovely first chat we had, you said something that really stuck with me. You told me your thoughts on how important leveraging the space around us is for our communication. Most of us think of communication as getting what I have in my head into your head, but the space in which we do it, and how we leverage that space can be really important. Can you share some insights on why we should pay attention to our communication environment?

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Because A, we're talking about our physical energy, which is a physical energy around us. We have a problem in our design is that we haven't got three sixty in sight. So we do have to feel around us. So when you're speaking to people, you have to be aware of their space and your space. Now, that could also be making sure that you sit in a place where everyone can see you. It's a simple stagecraft, but you have to have the sense that there's space and rest around you and everyone for them to feel safe enough. We talk about a safe space, whether any space is safe, but the leader who allows everyone their space

• 15:38Speaker 01

  and that we can all see each other and recognize each other is a very good leader and has a chance to make people feel at ease. It's the physical space around us and then we get into stagecraft when what is the best place to stand? What is the best place? You see people giving keynotes and they're standing and actually, you know, if there's five hundred people, fifty can't see them because they're not in the right place. Now, that doesn't mean to say you can't walk around, but you've got to establish things and you have to establish a safety in a way within your space. Where am I sitting? Am I looking down at you? Am I doing this? You know, I say to teachers, do you know that most of the students can't see you? And you're wondering why they're bored. So those are the sorts of things.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  So it's our physical presence which does have space. And when somebody enters it without permission, it can be scary. And when we're in second circle with our space and we're seeing each other, we have equality. First circle people by pulling back, they're not necessarily inferior, but they're signaling inferiority. Third circle people, they're pushing their space and they're taking up too much space. They're signaling superiority. So we have to have a regard for each other's space because then we can be equal.

• 16:54Matt Abrahams?

  Thinking about how space and our use of space helps communicate things is really important. I have a very particular instance that came to mind. I was coaching a very senior leader of a company everybody has heard of, and he was up on stage presenting, and he had something very serious to say. They were going to do a reduction in force, people were going to lose their jobs. And totally spontaneously, this was not rehearsed because I worked with him on his content, he stepped off the stage and walked into the audience to deliver the message. And while the message was not pleasing, people were not happy to hear the news, it felt different. There was a connection that happened in that moment when he walked off the stage. It was not inauthentic or disingenuine. I think he really felt that in that moment. Where you put yourself says a lot.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  But that's a wonderful example of him realizing that he had to meet them closer.

• 17:43Matt Abrahams?

  We have to think about it, and we need to avoid the lecterns and podiums that cause us to be backed from the audience.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Which causes us into third circle and masked. We become masked.

• 17:54Matt Abrahams?

  We'll be right back to finish our conversation. But first, we're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. Their support covers the cost of production so we can bring you this show for free. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. The best communicators don't just get their message across, they make it easy for people to know what to do next. Your website can do the same thing. With Squarespace, you can build a polished online presence that clearly shows people who you are, what you offer, and how they can work with you. If you offer coaching, consulting, classes, or other services, Squarespace lets you showcase those offerings, take payments, and use Acuity Scheduling so people can book time with you directly. And with built-in analytics, you can see how people are finding and engaging with

• 18:39Matt Abrahams?

  your site, helping you make smarter decisions about where to focus. So your online presence doesn't just look professional, it helps people take action. Go to Squarespace.com/thinkfast for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code THINKFAST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

• 19:01Matt Abrahams?

  Hi, Matt here. Sometimes the biggest obstacle to getting something done isn't the idea, the plan, or even the budget. It's finding the right person to help you execute. And the longer that takes, the easier it is to lose momentum. That's where today's sponsor Upwork can help. Upwork gives businesses fast access to highly skilled freelance professionals across areas like marketing, design, software development, AI, and business operations. And with Business Plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork. AI-powered shortlisting gives you a curated list of freelancers matched to your goals in under six hours. So you can spend less time searching for the right person and more time actually moving the work forward.

• 19:43Matt Abrahams?

  Visit upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U.P.W.O.R.K. dot com. Upwork.com.

• 19:59Matt Abrahams?

  Patsy, before we end, I like to ask three questions of everybody I interview. One I create just for you, and the others are similar across everybody. Are you up for that?

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:07Matt Abrahams?

  So across your varied experiences, I am sure you have worked with many people who have anxiety around whatever they're doing, a doctor giving bad news, somebody giving a keynote that's really important, actors getting out on stage and taking risks that they haven't. Do you have two or three things that you can quickly share that help people feel more confident in their communication in those circumstances?

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Number one, we've talked about it. Try to stand up, feel the floor, release your shoulders, and before you go into the space, breathe deeply and slowly. Keep that going. Feel the suspension of the breath, which is I breathe in just that moment before you throw a ball. And this sounds counterintuitive. As you go into any space... Look at people in the eyes. And the more you look, the calmer you get. You look at people, you breathe, you take your time. You don't rush to begin with. The rushing will kick off even more adrenaline and you'll get more panicked. If you have a chance before you go into a space,

• 21:15Speaker 01

  or even if you're in a space, you can reset by thinking, I'll just stop for a moment and take another breath. I, I promise you, it will help. I can't get rid of the nerves, but the nerves don't become debilitating.

• 21:28Matt Abrahams?

  And I think the anxiety and nervousness can actually help you. It gives you energy and focus. But I like this idea of the physicality of the deep breath and then the connecting through eye contact. While I agree, it sounds counterintuitive. For me, it works really well because I realize these are normal people who just want to be and get some value from what I have to say.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  And then I will also say, worry about the audience rather than yourself. A relief that you can worry about them understanding you. And they'll give it back. The more generous you are in life in these ways, the more you get back.

• 21:59Matt Abrahams?

  Thank you for that generous answer and for giving us very specific actionable ideas. Question number two, and you have worked with so many, I'd be very curious. Who is a communicator that you admire and why?

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Michelle Obama comes to mind. She takes her time, she's listening, she's with you, she's with the audience. And she's not frightened of being disliked. One of the most off putting things is people wanting to be liked all the time.

• 22:25Matt Abrahams?

  Final question for you, Patsy. What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Prepare in an embodied way, practice it, knowing that it won't be verbatim, practice. And again, it's the curiosity and the generosity that you bring into the space.

• 22:46Matt Abrahams?

  How wonderful of a recipe. It's about preparing, practicing, being present with your generosity and curiosity. A great recipe and great advice. And Patsy, thank you so much. You have done an amazing job of being very generous and helping us not only awaken our voices and our presence, but awaken our minds to new ways of communicating and really connecting with others. Thank you.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Absolutely. My pleasure.

• 23:16Matt Abrahams?

  Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. To learn more about nonverbal presence, please listen to episode 137 with Dana Carney. This episode was produced by Catherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder. With special thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. And check out FasterSmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. Please consider our premium offering for extended Deep Thinks episodes, Ask Matt Anythings,

• 23:57Matt Abrahams?

  and much more at FasterSmarter.io/premium. Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.