209. Find Your Fit, Find Your Focus - Catalyze Your Career

How to turn curiosity, clarity, and AI into your most powerful job search tools. Job search isn’t just about landing your next role—it’s about understanding who you are and how you want to show up in the world. According to Andrew Seaman https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/andrew-seaman/, Senior Managing Editor for Jobs and Career Development at LinkedIn, that process begins with curiosity, not certainty. “People assume they need to apply to dozens of jobs with a perfect résumé,” he explains. “But the best applications are rooted in self-awareness and strategy—not spray-and-pray.” Instead of rushing to the next opportunity, Seaman encourages job seekers to slow down, ask better questions, and prioritize conversations over checklists. From informational interviews to profile updates, clarity is key—knowing what you want and telling a story that shows why you’re the right fit. With tools like LinkedIn’s Job Match and natural-language job search, candidates can now assess how they align with a role—and where they can grow. “It’s not just about being qualified,” Seaman says. “It’s about showing the value you bring.” In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart https://www.fastersmarter.io/, Seaman joins host Matt Abrahams for our Catalyze Your Career miniseries to share how to job search with intention. Using Matt’s “Four I’s” framework—identifying, investigating, initiating contact, and interviewing—they explore how strategic storytelling, thoughtful networking, and AI tools can help you stand out in a crowded market. Episode Reference Links: Andrew Seaman https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/andrew-seaman/Ep.184 Fit or Quit? Find the Job That is Right For You—Catalyze Your Career https://www.fastersmarter.io/184-fit-or-quit-find-the-job-that-is-right-for-you-catalyze-your-career/Ep.187 Experimenting, Failing, and Finding Your Job Fit - Catalyze Your Career https://www.fastersmarter.io/187-experimenting-failing-and-finding-your-job-fit-catalyze-your-career/ Ep.151 Get Hired: How the Right Communication Can Advance Your Career https://www.fastersmarter.io/151-get-hired-how-the-right-communication-can-advance-your-career/ Connect: Premium Signup >>>> Think Fast Talk Smart Premium https://www.fastersmarter.io/premium/Email Questions & Feedback >>> [email protected] Transcripts >>>Think Fast Talk Smart Website https://www.fastersmarter.io/209-find-your-fit-find-your-focus-catalyze-your-career/Newsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>>FasterSmarter.io http://fastersmarter.io/Think Fast Talk Smart >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/think-fast-talk-smart/,Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thinkfasttalksmart/, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6caGRBUYZCmgDGM2RK6mxKB9jG_ccmm3Matt Abrahams >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maabrahams/ Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:00) - What’s Changing in Job Search (02:20) - Identifying Roles with Curiosity (05:20) - Investigating Companies & Roles (06:44) - Initiating Contact Effectively (10:00) - Crafting a Strong Narrative (11:12) - How Job Match Can Help (14:32) - Strategic vs. Shotgun Approach (19:31) - Best Career Advice Received (20:27) - Career Regrets & Lessons (21:56) - Conclusion ******** Thank you to our sponsors. These partnerships support the ongoing production of the podcast, allowing us to bring it to you at no cost. Learn more about how Notion https://www.notion.com/?utm_source=podcasts&utm_medium=thinkfast can support your business at notion.com/thinkfast. https://www.notion.com/?utm_source=podcasts&utm_medium=thinkfast Join our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community and become the communicator you want to be. https://learning.fastersmarter.io/?redirect_from=podpage

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Matt Abrahams?

  In the moment, conflict is difficult for everyone. In our October newsletter, out now, you will learn ways to help yourself handle these challenges better. Not only do you get specific advice, we're also providing an infographic to help you remember. Find our newsletter on the Think Fast, Talk Smart LinkedIn page or at fastersmarter.io under Resources. Advancements in AI are not only revolutionizing work, they're shaping careers and opening up new possibilities. My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

• 0:42Matt Abrahams?

  Today, I'm excited to once again be joined by Andrew Seaman, Senior Managing Editor for Jobs and Career Development at LinkedIn. Andrew joined me in episode 151. Andrew oversees a team of journalists and editors at LinkedIn who are focused on helping people navigate work and life. Through his Get Hired podcast, which he has kindly had me on a few times, he and his team helped thousands of people get jobs and advance careers. Welcome back, Andrew. It is really exciting to have yet another conversation. Thank you for hosting us in this beautiful studio of yours.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Of course, thanks for having me.

• 1:15Matt Abrahams?

  And I'm really excited to have a conversation that's part of our Catalyze Your Career mini-series sponsored by LinkedIn. Shall we get started?

• 1:22Speaker 01

  I'd love to.

• 1:22Matt Abrahams?

  Clearly, the world is changing in terms of how people find jobs and the tools they use. I'm curious, what are you seeing as changing in the world of job search? And what should people be thinking about?

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Right now, it's definitely like a transition period. Obviously, we have a lot of things happening in the macro economy. So you have hiring that is stable-ish, but we see dips and accelerations here or there. But it's not an easy time to be a job seeker right now. And then you also have the fact that a lot of places aren't hiring. They weren't doing that already, but then at the same time, you have companies that are being a little bit more cautious. So you have those factors at play, but then you also have this looming idea of AI. And We don't know what we don't know, so it's hard to say exactly when and how people will be affected by it.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  We know that it's already having an impact on some people. There's so many different things at play and it's uncertain. And then you also have a lot of people who are going to be graduating soon. So it's going to be a really competitive market. I think overall on LinkedIn, we've seen a 45% increase in applications overall. You have a lot of competition going on for jobs that aren't as plentiful as people would hope.

• 2:42Matt Abrahams?

  And so really thinking about your strategy and your approach can be really helpful. Part of my teaching job is to prepare my MBA students for not just their impending careers, but for their job searches. And when I speak with them, I break down job searching into four I's. Identifying a potential job, investigating the company and the role, initiating contact and applying, and then finally interviewing. I'd love for you to use my four I structure to help me answer some of these questions. So what are the things that job seekers can do? And what tools can they leverage to help with each stage? So when it comes to identification, what are some things you would recommend that job seekers do? And what tools are available to help them?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  The first one is definitely being inquisitive. I think knowing what's out there, knowing what resonates with you. Utilize your network. Obviously, you could do that on LinkedIn, but there are so many different ways. You could reach out to friends and family. You could reach out to former coworkers. And I think the trick is to be genuine in those outreaches. Because so many people, they do an outreach, but it's more or less, hey, I saw a job at your company, give me a job. And nothing makes a networking conversation or a conversation sort of spoil faster, or even a whole relationship, because that person just ends up feeling used. So what I often tell people is just let your genuine curiosity guide you and let people know like, hey, I'm looking for work and see what they offer you.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  And say, oh, you should talk to so and so because they have this really cool job. But whatever you do, when you ask and you bring someone in for a conversation, be more interested in them. And obviously, you could end with, I'm looking for new opportunities. So if you have any suggestions, please let me know. Like, don't make too big of an ask. Asking for information is totally valid and it's a light lift for that other person. But I think that's the biggest part. And also, what I tell people is, search on LinkedIn. Our search is changing right now, so we're going to be rolling out AI job search. So traditionally, when you job search, you would say, I want to be an accountant. And I want to be an accountant in Savannah, Georgia. And then there'd be other filters that said, I want to work at a big company.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Or, these are the requirements that I have. And, you know, you had to be pretty good at searching. And you could set up an alert and all that other stuff. But the way that our engineers are now making the search work is through basically natural language. So it's an AI job search. And what you could say is, you could basically say, okay, I want to work in accounting in Savannah, Georgia. And I'd like a minimum salary of whatever. And this tool basically goes into LinkedIn's files and says, okay, we have these positions. Here you go. So it's much more natural.

• 5:24Matt Abrahams?

  So it sounds to me like the key to identifying potential jobs is through conversation, rather than direct request. And that those same skills you might use when I'm talking to a friend or a friend of a friend, I can use with AI. And that will also help me find the things that I'm looking for. So taking the time to be thoughtful about identifying the jobs and not being so direct and blunt, perhaps, at least with people, could be helpful. So the second step I talk to my students about is investigating, doing the research. Because if you are going to get an interview, it's important to know. What advice do you have about how people can better investigate the companies and the roles that they're interested in?

• 6:01Speaker 01

  I think, again, it comes back to conversations. Nothing's going to give you better information than someone who's living that experience. So you want to look for people who are at that company, who are maybe in a similar role. And even if there's not a job open, or they're not advertising for a role, you want to reach out and just set up those conversations and say, hey, would you be open for a 10, 15 minute conversation? And these conversations could be super beneficial, because even if you don't know that- Person, if you get in front of them or you have a good conversation with them, they could give you a lot of information about what their day to day is like, what the company is like, are there any green flags where, you know, something really resonates with you and you could use AI too.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Like you can keep a running list of like, oh, here's a job description that I really like, add that to a file and then you could have AI and analyze it and come up with, here are the main things that people are looking for in this field or profession. So it's really doing digging and coming up with a good idea of what the companies are, what they're looking for, and then finding out what it's actually like on the ground.

• 7:06Matt Abrahams?

  I think this investigation is really important and I really like that idea of starting to flag job descriptions that you see and start looking for what's common across them that might be attracting you. In a previous conversation you and I had, we talked about coming up with questions. And I think as you investigate a role or a company, really thinking through your questions to get at what you're really interested in is important. A lot of people, I think, stay too high level with their questions, but being really specific can give you important insight. So let's move to the third step in the four eyes model, which is really initiating contact. What advice do you have about how do you actually set up the first meeting or ask for that meeting? How does contact initiation work?

• 7:47Speaker 01

  It works in a few different ways. What I would say is look at the job description, see what it says. On LinkedIn, there are a few tools that they've rolled out recently that can be beneficial. So one thing that we've been hearing a lot from people is basically that they don't know if a job is real and people get those text messages. I don't know if you do, but hey, I'm a recruiter for so and so. And there are all these scams, but so on LinkedIn, they wanted to basically give people more reassurance that like this is a real job. This is a company that's actually looking. So now, when you go into the job descriptions or like job search results, there'll be little notes that say, oh, this is a verified job. They're actively looking at resumes. This is how long it takes to get back to you.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  So it might also even say the person who's hiring for the role, if they're a recruiter. So make sure that you're actually looking at the whole job posting to get a sense of can you use any additional information? From there. My biggest piece of advice is first apply because a recruiter can generally not do anything until your information is in the system. So a lot of times people will see a job post on LinkedIn or somewhere else and they'll say, who do I know there? And it's great to work those channels, but also you want to make sure your application gets in as soon as possible. And then what you can do is then use your contacts and say, hey, I saw this job. I applied. Can you give me any insight?

• 9:10Speaker 01

  And even if they give you a referral afterward, like usually, you know, that person could message the recruiter and say, hey, I know this person. Can you add me as a reference? But what I would also say is if they list the recruiter, if they list any other details, you can find them also on LinkedIn and say, send them a message and say, hey, I just applied for this role. I'm really interested in it, almost like, you know, your cover letter.

• 9:34Matt Abrahams?

  Right.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  So make sure that you're sending those messages, even if they don't reply to you, it's still worth your time to do that.

• 9:40Matt Abrahams?

  What I'm hearing there that I think is so important, many things you said are really important, but putting yourself in the position of the recruiter or gatekeeper is really important because we think as soon as I see a job I want, I'm going to try to find connections and figure out how I can get that job. But in fact, there are well-known procedures that those companies and those jobs have to follow. And if you're not playing that game, if you will, you're in trouble. So I like that idea of work your network, but make sure you get it through. And make sure that you're using language that is enticing because essentially it's like a movie preview. You're trying to get people interested and excited to take a little more time. And thinking of it that way, I think changes everything because many people just want to list and itemize instead of saying, hey, here's something I spent some thought on.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think we've talked about this before and it's something that I've been telling a lot of people, think outside the box of like, don't just think that just because you've been an accountant your entire life that you have to be an accountant now. And what I sort of suggest to people is if you're making a career change, but also even if you're not have your narrative that supports why you're the best candidate for these roles. And make sure you're leading with that with your messages, because if you just say, hey, I'm interested in this role, you might get a look, but They may not look too deeply. They might say, okay, you probably sent that to 15 other recruiters. But if you have the narrative that says, listen, yes, I'm making a career change, but here's why it's beneficial to me. Or you set it up as saying, I was made for this role, whatever your story is.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  I think it makes them think twice and say, oh, you're worth 15 seconds instead of five.

• 11:09Matt Abrahams?

  I think it's not just for people changing careers, but somebody who's starting a career to really think through what is the story you tell versus what are all the qualifications and checkboxes I do and taking the time to do that as you initiate contact are important. We've talked certainly a lot about interviewing in the previous episodes. So I'd like you to focus your response on how have the tools changed? Are we approaching interviewing differently now versus the way we might have?

• 11:34Speaker 01

  I do think we've moved into a space where it is more of a conversation of is this the right fit for both of us? I think that's a good thing because employment is a business agreement and you won't want both parties to be happy. The other thing is I think we have many more tools to analyze what they're actually looking for. So obviously, job descriptions are super powerful. Not all job descriptions are great. I'll get asked quite a bit, like, who writes these? And I'll usually say, usually what happens is, I said, some hiring manager who's never written a job description before in their life will write down the requirements that they want. They'll pass it along. It'll get cut and paste into something else that already existed. And I said, you end up with this Frankenstein thing that is imperfect.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  But somewhere in there are the nuggets of what that hiring manager wants. So just like we sort of talked about earlier, analyzing a bunch of different job descriptions, you do want to sometimes really take a look and say, okay, what in here is very specific? And I think those are the pieces that will actually come from the hiring manager. At LinkedIn, we have now a tool called JobMatch. And essentially, when you're looking at a job description, you could say, what does AI think? Am I a fit for this role? And it'll show you, these are your weak points, these are your strengths, or this is where you align on your application. So it can actually show you like the things you need to address or prepare for in an interview to say, I'm not really good with.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Conflict management right now, but I've been taking courses to figure out how to actually do that. So that way, when I do take charge of a team, I'll be prepared.

• 13:09Matt Abrahams?

  I hear two really important things there, that the actual interview itself is a conversation. And it's a conversation that these days, I think two things are true. It's a little more equal in terms of status. So I'm not letting the employer really run the show. I have to take an active part. And I think they're a little less formal. I think ever since the pandemic, these things have become just a little more informal. Again, leaning into this idea of conversation. So as you prepare, you need to think, how do I have a conversation versus how do I just answer the questions? And I got excited when you talked about having a tool, an AI, help you see where you match and where you don't. And I think we can use a tool, I think we can use other people.

• 13:49Matt Abrahams?

  But to really get some external validation or encouragement in areas where you might be deficient for that role, that can be really helpful because that sets you up for success. One of the things we've talked about in a previous conversation is looking at people's career paths. They're doing a job that you're interested in doing and seeing how they got there. That's another way of trying to figure out where could I focus my efforts to better qualify? So I really appreciate those two pieces.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  This is actually my favorite way to use this tool. When people are looking at a job description and they click that button. And if it says you're not really strong with the majority of these requirements. And you look at it and say, but I am. And actually what it does is it uses all the information from your profile. So if you're not actually presenting yourself appropriately on your profile for the jobs you want, it can show where your weak points are. So maybe you don't think of something as a strength, or just there's something that's not occurring to you to actually put on your profile or advertise about your professional strengths. It can actually show you those holes and like how you're presenting yourself.

• 14:54Matt Abrahams?

  So job match doesn't only help you identify how good of a match you are for the job, but it helps you identify where perhaps your profile or the way you're presenting yourself could be strengthened. So you might say, I feel this is true about me, but the system is saying, we don't see it. So then you have to, again, adjust your narrative. Thank you. So going through the four I's of identification, investigation, initiating contact, and interviewing is really about being conversational, creating a narrative, and leveraging tools like AI to help. If we take a step back, the job search process can certainly be overwhelming. Do you have advice and guidance about how to simplify or make it at least less stressful and easier for job seekers?

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yes. I think the first thing is that you really need to have a strategic job search. So a lot of people, they think that the job search is a numbers game, and especially in this environment where you're facing hiring rates that are either going down or staying the same while we're seeing increased competition. And it leads to a vicious cycle because you end up just applying everywhere with very generic resumes that are not targeted. And then the result of that is that you get more discouraged. So you send out more generic resumes and things like that, and it just keeps going, and you feel worse and worse about yourself. So having a targeted job search where you say, okay, this is what I want. And the way I recommend people do that is, once they have those conversations and they

• 16:18Speaker 01

  sort of settle on, okay, I do want to work in sales in the healthcare industry. Find the positions that you're most interested in, and you could use that AI job search to say like, hey, I want to find sales jobs in healthcare in Tallahassee, or something like that. And it'll give you a bunch of job descriptions, and you could take those and put them in any free AI tool and say, how can I construct my resume? What is the most important traits of someone working in this area? And really focus your job search on selling yourself as that, coming up with that narrative of, okay, here's where I'm coming from, here's how I'm pitching myself. And again, you could use AI for that. Don't ever take what it just spits out and say, hey, here's my stuff.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  But use it as almost like that job search code. And use your time to really go after the jobs that you really want, you know, that you hope that they'll just give you a moment because right now so many people are applying to all jobs. And in fact, that's one of the complaints I think we hear most from employers is we're just getting so many applications. And that was actually one of the reasons we created Jobs Match because we wanted people to be able to know whether or not they are actually a good match for that. So what I hear from employers is the really good resumes stand out because if you're going through so many that are so lackluster, when you find one that is actually like, oh, wow, this person checks most of my boxes and actually wants to do this work.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  It's just like the shining beacon for them. So put your effort into actually doing a job search that is going to lead to where you want to go. And then also understand that a successful job search is more than just applying. It's talking to people, it's setting up those conversations. And I always suggest thinking of it as odds. What can you be doing that is going to increase your odds of success? You're never going to be guaranteed anything or be guaranteed on a timeline. But what you could do is say, okay, if I do X, it's going to give me a little bit more of an edge. And that will be networking, that'll be taking courses online or even signing up for other courses in local colleges,

• 18:27Speaker 01

  volunteering to gain additional experience, or also just taking time to go for a walk. So it's really about just understanding that the job search process is a holistic thing. And a lot of people will say, it's a full-time job. And I'll always tell them, yes, but a full-time job usually comes with weekends. So don't be afraid to build those into it because all of those things will make your life more tolerable during a very difficult time. And then I think the most important part is have a support network.

• 18:56Matt Abrahams?

  All of that is really good advice. The defining of success of a job search is really important. It may or may not be getting that one job. It might be planting the seeds that open up other opportunities. It might be connecting with a broader community that can lead to a job or at least lead to support. I think we put a tremendous amount of pressure on ourselves when. The solo goal of a job search is to find that job instead of to make yourself a better candidate and to be open to the possibility of other things that come your way. And then that notion of being strategic, where instead of doing the shotgun approach and just sending out everything, really focus can actually give you more of a sense of control and make it more manageable.

• 19:41Matt Abrahams?

  So I think that advice is really good because getting a job is a wonderful thing, but if you get to that job fatigued and frustrated and stressed, then the best job is not going to at least start. We'll be right back to finish our conversation, but first, we're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. Their support covers the cost of production, so we can bring you this show for free. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. The best communicators don't just get their message across, they make it easy for people to know what to do next. Your website can do the same thing. With Squarespace, you can build a polished online presence that clearly shows people who you are, what you offer, and how they can work with you.

• 20:22Matt Abrahams?

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• 20:59Matt Abrahams?

  Hi, Matt here. Sometimes the biggest obstacle to getting something done isn't the idea, the plan, or even the budget. It's finding the right person to help you execute. And the longer that takes, the easier it is to lose momentum. That's where today's sponsor, Upwork, can help. Upwork gives businesses fast access to highly skilled freelance professionals across areas like marketing, design, software development, AI, and business operations. And with Business Plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork. AI-powered shortlisting gives you a curated list of freelancers matched to your goals in under six hours. So you can spend less time searching for the right person and more time actually moving the work forward. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free.

• 21:45Matt Abrahams?

  That's upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U.P.W.O.R.K. com. Upwork.com. That well. Before we end, I'm asking everybody who's participating in this catalyze your career mini series, the same two questions. Are you ready?

• 22:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:03Matt Abrahams?

  What is the best career advice you've ever received and why?

• 22:06Speaker 01

  When I was younger, I remember someone who was a vice president of my college. And I felt really insecure about, even as a college journalist, going in interviewing people. And he said, the benefit you have is that when you're new to a role or young, people will always underestimate you and you could always over deliver. So even though I'm not young or new, I always tell myself that when I'm trying new things. Because when you're new to something, people don't expect you to be good at it. And I always remind myself, I'm always going to at least over deliver beyond their expectation, their base level expectation.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  So I think that's the best career advice I ever received.

• 22:52Matt Abrahams?

  Leverage the newness and come at it with the focus on trying to be the best you can be, knowing that the expectations might be a little lower. Very good. Second and final question. What is the one thing you wish you would have done differently in the way you managed your career?

• 23:08Speaker 01

  I think I would have been more proactive when I was younger, whether it was asking for raises or career development. My first raise as a full time professional came to me because they felt bad for me because I had never asked for it. I literally went into like my yearly review and I had recently changed managers at that point. And she goes, we're giving you a raise. And I was like, oh, boy. And she goes, you've never asked for one. And I said, I didn't think I had to. And I don't know why, it was just this weird thing where I was like, I have to ask? So I think I would be much more proactive in being an advocate for myself.

• 23:54Matt Abrahams?

  Being proactive and being an advocate, I think, captures a lot of what we talked about today, Andrew. Thank you very much. The introduction to all these really cool tools, JobMatch, AI assistance, the proactive approach, thinking about your job search as the narrative, really important advice. And I hope those listening can take value if they're looking for a job currently, or if they're just thinking about what's next for them in their career. Thanks so much.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 24:22Matt Abrahams?

  Thank you for joining us for another episode of our Catalyze Your Career mini-series, sponsored by LinkedIn. Please listen to the prior two episodes, episode 184 with Catherine Fisher and episode 187 with Dory Clark. To learn more from Andrew Seaman, listen to episode 151. This episode was produced by Ryan Campos and me, Matt Abrahams. With special thanks to the LinkedIn crew, especially Emily Reeves. Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. And check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content,

• 25:07Matt Abrahams?

  and our newsletter. Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.