273. Quick Thinks: How to Create Messages People Remember

Memorable communication isn’t about saying more—it’s making the right idea stick. No matter how compelling a presentation feels in the moment, most of what you say won’t last in your audience’s memory. The key isn’t trying to make people remember everything — it’s ensuring they remember what matters most. Carmen Simon https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/carmen-simon/ is a cognitive neuroscientist, author, and expert on how the brain pays attention and forms memories. Her research explores how communication can move beyond passive listening and become an experience the brain actually holds onto. “The way we come to know the world is through the interaction of brain, body, and environment,” she explains. “The more you invite your audiences to interact with anything, especially physically, the more you impact cognition.” In this Quick Thinks episode of Think Fast Talk Smart https://www.fastersmarter.io/, Simon and host Matt Abrahams explore practical, research-backed ways to make communication more memorable. They discuss why handwriting notes can deepen understanding, how curiosity and tension capture attention, and why communicators should avoid overwhelming audiences with too much information. Instead, Simon encourages speakers to structure ideas so audiences can recognize patterns and return to a clear core message. Episode Reference Links: Carmen Simon https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/carmen-simon/Carmen’s Book: Impossible to Ignore https://fastersmarter.io/impossible-to-ignoreEp.39 Brains Love Stories: How Leveraging Neuroscience Can Capture People's Emotions https://www.fastersmarter.io/39-brains-love-stories-how-leveraging-neuroscience-can-capture-peoples-emotions/ Connect: Premium Signup >>>> Think Fast Talk Smart Premium https://www.fastersmarter.io/premium/Email Questions & Feedback >>> [email protected] Transcripts >>>Think Fast Talk Smart Website https://www.fastersmarter.io/memorable-communication-tips/Newsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>>FasterSmarter.io http://fastersmarter.io/Think Fast Talk Smart >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/think-fast-talk-smart/,Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thinkfasttalksmart/, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6caGRBUYZCmgDGM2RK6mxKB9jG_ccmm3Matt Abrahams >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maabrahams/ Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (00:34) - Embodied Cognition Explained (02:47) - The Impact of Environment on Attention (04:11) - Sparking Curiosity in Your Audience (08:27) - Avoiding Cognitive Overload (11:41) - Using Visuals to Improve Recall (15:36) - Conclusion ******** Thank you to our sponsors. These partnerships support the ongoing production of the podcast, allowing us to bring it to you at no cost. Learn more about how Notion https://www.notion.com/?utm_source=podcasts&utm_medium=thinkfast can support your business at notion.com/thinkfast. https://www.notion.com/?utm_source=podcasts&utm_medium=thinkfast Join our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community and become the communicator you want to be. https://learning.fastersmarter.io/?redirect_from=podpage

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Matt Abrahams?

  In the moment, conflict is difficult for everyone. In our October newsletter, out now, you will learn ways to help yourself handle these challenges better. Not only do you get specific advice, we're also providing an infographic to help you remember. Find our newsletter on the Think Fast, Talk Smart LinkedIn page or at fastersmarter.io under Resources. We need to leverage the way our brains learn and focus to help make our messages more memorable. My name is Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to this Quick Thinks episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. My interview with neuroscientist Carmen Simon was truly insightful and helpful.

• 0:43Matt Abrahams?

  Carmen provided so many tips and tools that we simply could not fit all of her wisdom into one episode. So fasten your seatbelts and get ready to learn more ways to make your messages unforgettable. Your work distinguishes between active and passive experiences. Do you have any communication guidance for a leader who wants to turn a routine, often boring experience like a team meeting or an all-hands training of some sort, into an experience that's more active and engaging and memorable so that people will collaborate more, buy in more, and remember it more?

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Yes, I like all those phrases that you're using. And one of the hottest trends in neuroscience is embodied cognition. The reason it's one of the hottest trends is because recognizing that the way we come to know the world, perceive it, and eventually build memories, and eventually build decisions, is not by building some abstract mental representations. Yeah, sure, we do that. But we come to know the world at the intersection of brain, body, interacting with the environment. Embodied cognition. So the more you invite your audiences to interact with anything, especially physically, then you are already impacting cognition. So how can that happen in real life? Some companies are lucky where they have an experiential center. You can invite people in your offices.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Even this experience right now is memorable because we could have done this very easily virtually, but now we are in a studio surrounded by excellent people and their skills and equipment. Now more of our senses are involved. We can... Kick it down a notch because not everybody has access to these kinds of spaces. And one thing that I was able to show in a neuroscience study I conducted was the difference between what happens when somebody views a presentation passively versus when they're asked to type notes as they're listening to the speaker versus when they're asked to handwrite notes. So of course, that third condition, people in that performed better in terms of attention and subsequent memory. Because now, think about how much is involved when you handwrite. Your fingers are in it, the entire hand is in it, your entire arm, your neck, your shoulders,

• 2:44Speaker 01

  you're contributing to this. Besides, when you're handwriting versus typing, you are synthesizing things a little bit more. Versus when you're typing, by the way, you're typing more verbatim what the other person says. So the processing is not so deep. So that could be the most benign way in which we engage the brain and the body is simply asking people to take notes. Tell your audience, this is worthwhile, this will serve you well, write this down.

• 3:09Matt Abrahams?

  So getting people to do something where they're connecting their physical experience with their mental experience helps. So a technique I often recommend that people do is to put people in a physical place mentally. So I use descriptive language. So the room is dark, it's cold outside. Is there a similar effect when it's not actually physical, but you're getting people to envision some physicality?

• 3:32Speaker 01

  It's a good proxy. So in addition to the vision of it all, can you apply some motion? Like when you said, yeah, it was a dark room and he kicked a wall in it. Now you have the vision plus some movement that is happening, or the air was circulating so much that her hair became curlier in the moment. You see, now there is some action, involves some movement. The brain has evolved to pay attention to movement. Lately, even spaces have evolved. Like for instance, I participated in a conference and it was held in a castle. So sometimes the environment in itself contributes to making the experience a little extra special. Another one that I just presented at recently was in a monastery. I've heard of events being held on a boat.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  I've heard of business meetings happening in something that otherwise wouldn't have been considered your typical and predictable boardroom. So one of the reasons they are extra special is because, remember, it's brain, body, interacting with the environment. So if the environment itself is unpredictable, you increase the chances of attention and memory.

• 4:33Matt Abrahams?

  Super cool. So if you really want to help your audience, it's not just thinking about your message and what you ask them to do, the space in which you do it can have impact. I want to turn to two things that are very important in storytelling. And I'm curious to get your perspective on how they help us with attention and memory. The value of intrigue and curiosity. These are tools that get people to lean in. What are your thoughts on those? And do you have some research and specific advice on how we can leverage those?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  It's an interesting dimension, especially that of getting the brain curious. And not an easy one to reach because are you noticing that some people are so jaded? Where whatever you show them is like, eh, another one of those. So this is why I'm glad that you have the wonderful listeners that you're talking about. Because we need people like them to try a little bit harder to instigate and get the brain to be just a little bit extra excited. Obviously, you often rely on intrinsic motivation. Like, some people come to your content and they're intrinsically motivated to listen and they're curious about things. When they may not, and you have the responsibility, can you create some tension in the brain? What I'm noticing in my research, time and time again, is that as we calculate emotions,

• 5:45Speaker 01

  and from a neuroscience perspective, we have two variables that are instrumental to emotion. What are they? Valence, which is how much the brain enjoys an experience. It could be positive or negative. And arousal, meaning how alert and awake people are during that experience. So picture this as quadrants now. So you have valence on a horizontal axis. You have arousal on a vertical axis. Add these quadrants, you have these intersections of you really amped up and you like something and now you're alert, like you cannot possibly be nonchalant.

• 6:14Matt Abrahams?

  What immediately popped into my mind is listening to a comedian tell jokes.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  So a good stand-up comedian doesn't necessarily let you relax. Lower right, now you can relax a little bit more, maybe like reading a book. Lower left, that's negative valence, but you're not upset. So as you're thinking about these quadrants, know this. Lower left, negative valence and low arousal, that's where boredom settles in. And that's where memories go to die. Some people might think that, oh, should always have things that are positive, either that they amp you up or they keep you more relaxed, but positive nonetheless. But that's not what I'm observing. Quite often, attention and memory are created at the intersection of negative valence and high arousal. Now I'm feeling it. I'm a little anxious about this. There is tension. And quite often, that tension can provoke some curiosity, which is what you're asking about.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  So I remember we were doing a presentation about cybersecurity. And this vendor was saying, If you use us, we will help you manage information technology and OT, operational technology. And in the presentation, they were saying if in IT, some of your systems get hacked, data gets stolen, there's a breach, people lose their jobs. OT for physical object gets hacked, people can lose their lives because if you hack an oil rig, for instance, people can really die. So we're just getting like really deep into this. And even the slides are turning dark and you could see like a little cross with a little bit of blood dripping off of it. Now you can like physically see this lean in motion. The brain is motivated to keep on going a little bit. So from a neuroscience perspective,

• 7:46Speaker 01

  I think I would equate this dimension of motivation and leaning into a system versus withdrawing as a sign of curiosity. Now, tell me a little bit more. I'm willing to stay with you for the next moment over until you get me to that lower left. You're always just a click away from lower left. But a bit of tension and friction can help you there.

• 8:05Matt Abrahams?

  So as we think about the stories we tell, the examples we use, the testimonials we provide, we should actually, I think, almost map them on your two by two matrix and see where do they fit. And as long as they are arousing in some way and the valence isn't as important, and we can think about how we can drop those in. And I assume we can't have too many back to back of all the same kind because it can become almost overwhelming.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  It's true, it can become overwhelming. And you don't want people to be staying in that upper left for too long because then it's just really draining. But a combination of the three, so upper left, upper right and lower right, those are really good. Every so often, the brain will go into a slight state of boredom. We can't claim that all of a sudden just everything is going to be an epiphany.

• 8:49Matt Abrahams?

  You argue that we often over deliver on content, which creates cognitive overload. What are the key communication habits a person should break to reduce the load they put on their audience and ensure that their core message is not only received, but understood? So we say more than we need to, it sounds like.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Sometimes we say more than we need to. And it's an intriguing concept to me because here's the good news for everybody, especially as the world is getting more complex. The brain actually synchronizes better with that which is complex than that which is simple. Where does complexity and overload come in? It's not really complexity that gets us in trouble, it's randomness. So really, when we talk about overload, we're talking about some random bits and pieces that people go on in and out, in and out, in and out, without enabling somebody else's brain to see some patterns, to see how all of these, as difficult as they may be, components come together. So one practical technique, especially if we have technical people who like to geek out for a moment, is related to fractals.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  So for those of you who may wonder what are fractals, they are these objects, or even parts of our bodies have those properties, objects that have the same properties at any level of magnification. So for instance, if you picture a tree, you have the trunk, you have the branches, and if you go to the smallest of the smallest of the branch, that little branch has the same properties as the entire big tree. Or if you go to the grocery store, you see a head of cauliflower. The entire head of cauliflower is composed of these tiny baby heads of cauliflower, and those baby heads have the same properties as the entire head. So it's cauliflower all the way down. So as a practical technique, think about all your content, anything that you want to share with an audience, and as complex or seemingly overloading as it may be, wonder

• 10:33Speaker 01

  what are just some core sets of properties? That's what your 10% message would come in as well, so that your entire content is being perceived as cauliflower all the way down. Because if you have this core that never changes, then you can elaborate, then you can add stories, and you can add details, you can add your analogies, all of those beautiful things you mentioned, but you won't feel overwhelming because you're coming back to the same core, you're coming back to the same short set of rules.

• 10:59Matt Abrahams?

  So have a clear through line that you can connect things to, rather than... That's why when people go off on tangents, it can be so frustrating and difficult to stay focused. So we have to have a clear goal, clear direction, help our audience see the patterns of the things we're saying.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  See the patterns and just come back home. So when you say control your 10%, come back to that 10% message. Every so often to say, yeah, we went over here, and we went over here, we went over here, but overall, everything just condenses down to this one handful of things.

• 11:28Matt Abrahams?

  We'll be right back to finish our conversation. But first, we're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. Their support covers the cost of production, so we can bring you this show for free.

• 11:39Matt Abrahams?

  This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. The best communicators don't just get their message across, they make it easy for people to know what to do next. Your website can do the same thing. With Squarespace, you can build a polished online presence that clearly shows people who you are, what you offer, and how they can work with you. If you offer coaching, consulting, classes, or other services, Squarespace lets you showcase those offerings, take payments, and use Acuity Scheduling so people can book time with you directly. And with built-in analytics, you can see how people are finding and engaging with your site, helping you make smarter decisions about where to focus. So your online presence doesn't just look professional, it helps people take action.

• 12:21Matt Abrahams?

  Go to Squarespace.com/thinkfast for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code THINKFAST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hi, Matt here. Sometimes the biggest obstacle to getting something done isn't the idea, the plan, or even the budget. It's finding the right person to help you execute. And the longer that takes, the easier it is to lose momentum. That's where today's sponsor, Upwork, can help. Upwork gives businesses fast access to highly skilled freelance professionals across areas like marketing, design, software development, AI, and business operations. And with Business Plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork.

• 13:04Matt Abrahams?

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• 13:31Matt Abrahams?

  One of the other things that strikes me that 90% does is even though you might not remember the content, you might remember the feeling. And so even if I only remember 10% of what you say, I might leave saying, she was really on her game and competent, and that can help me as well.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  The strong emotions will definitely help in a competitive space. Challenge yourself to combine emotion with some verbatim phrases. You cannot afford to only operate on emotions. Just because other companies will also have their messages and their emotions. So ideally, it's your combination that makes it through.

• 14:06Matt Abrahams?

  I have seen your books. I've seen your book covers. I've seen presentations that you've done. Visuals play very strongly in what you do. Can you give us some best practices and advice when using visuals to help with memory and engagement?

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Yes, that is one of my favorite topics to talk about because with neuroscience, we can debunk some myths. And I'm sure you've heard this many times before, same for our listeners, that some people are visual learners, some people are auditory learners, some are kinesthetic. I hope nobody ever repeats those sentences ever again because primarily, we are visual beings. 60 to 70% of our body receptors, which is how we take in the world and we start perceiving things and building memories are visual. We are visual people, assuming of course, you're visually able. Even when you're not, you're still seeing inwards. You have to take care of your visuals. You can do them by showing people some pictures or by doing what you're recommending earlier,

• 15:02Speaker 01

  which I really like, enabling the brain to see inwards, like building mental images. So don't put so much pressure on yourself, like suddenly you have to come up with some amazing graphics and you don't have a graphics degree. If you do have some sort of inclination towards the images, what I'm doing a lot of research on is cliche images and cliche phrases. I'm noticing that the brain, especially the global brain, I did a study on this, has some comfort with the written cliche. So for instance, if you say phrases like such and such is a game changer, or this is a win-win situation, or data-driven anything these days. I was noticing that as I included people from the US, people from Asia, people from Europe, we have a certain amount of comfort with the cliche.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  It's almost like it's a universal language. People come home, it's like, I got it, as long as you don't overdo it. The cliches in that study, they're only 5% of the entire communication. However, the global brain doesn't have any energy for cliche images. And what are those? You want to take a guess what's the most cliche image in business content?

• 16:05Matt Abrahams?

  The first thing that came to mind was like a sun rising or something.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  You're not far, so the mountain, Kaimi Mountains, and especially usually at a sunrise or a sunset. And I have to say this, by the way, I was listening to this incredible keynote speaker, and he was a mountaineer. And he said, visualizing business success by showing a businessperson on top of the mountain is like the worst thing that you can do. Not only is it cliche, but most accidents in mountaineering happen when you go down the mountain. So just to show that you've made it there at the top, you haven't made it at the top. You make it when you come back down to the bottom unscathed. That's success. So removing the technicalities, then if we talk about visuals, then we have to ask, how is it that we avoid the cliches? The mountain of it all, and the chess strategies, and the iceberg metaphor. So here, what we did something with the iceberg metaphor, because I was reflecting on that,

• 16:53Speaker 01

  and I was thinking, you know, the iceberg metaphor has a good story in it. It tells us that at the top, you see something small, but really what's important is underneath it. So I was challenging our designers to say, how would you visualize there is more to the story? So we had three versions in that presentation. One was, you're seeing what would appear as a shark fin on top of the water, but then when you really zoom in under the water, it's just a regular goldfish. In the other one, we were showing a person climbing a mountain that looks like it's covered in snow, but then on click, the whole thing rises, and that's actually the top of an ice cream cone. So because now you didn't expect that, you see, there's more to the story, and that unexpected piece was a little bit unusual. Or you take any kind of stone structure, let's just say Stonehenge,

• 17:38Speaker 01

  and on click, you raise it up, and you see a few aliens right underneath there in the dirt. There's more to the story. Depends on what more you want to take it. But see, you can challenge yourself to say, look at a familiar visual and play off of it, jolt the brain out of its habituation.

• 17:54Matt Abrahams?

  So visuals play a very important role, and there are things we can do through visuals to stimulate interest and attention. Well, there you have it. Tips, tools, and techniques to make your messages more memorable and engaging. I challenge everyone to apply Carmen's insights and advice into your upcoming communication.

• 18:15Matt Abrahams?

  Thank you for joining us for this Quick Thinks episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. This episode was produced by Catherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also, follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram. And check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. Please also consider joining Think Fast, Talk Smart's learning community at fastersmarter.io/learning. You'll find video lessons, learning quests, discussion boards, our AI coaches, and a book club.

• 18:58Matt Abrahams?

  Again, that's fastersmarter.io/learning. Thanks for joining me for this Quick Thinks episode. If these takeaways were helpful, I'd love for you to listen to the full episode that started this conversation. There's more context, more stories, and more tools to support your communication. Give it a listen, and as always, thanks for your support. Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.