Session 487: Elective Health Screenings

Return guest Dr. Uché Blackstock joins us to help us make sense of the growing popularity of elective health screenings and the wellness trends shaping how we approach our health. We’re discussing how to find credible health information, make informed decisions about testing, and navigate the potential risks of unnecessary screenings. Plus, Dr. Blackstock shares how we can prioritize our wellbeing without getting caught up in the pressure to over-optimize our health. About the Podcast The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Resources & Announcements Want to reflect on this conversation in community? Join us inside our Patreon https://community.therapyforblackgirls.com/ community where we’re unpacking this episode together. You can now catch episodes of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@therapyforblackgirls. Be sure to subscribe to get new episodes every week. Did you know you can leave us a voice note with your questions for the podcast? If you have a question you'd like some feedback on, topics you'd like to hear covered, or want to suggest movies or books for us to review, drop us a message at memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls https://memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls and let us know what’s on your mind. We just might share it on the podcast. Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals. https://www.sisterhoodheals.com/ Connect with Dr. Joy on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/hellodrjoy. Where to Find Our Guest Website https://ucheblackstock.com/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/ucheblackstockmd Newsletter https://ucheblackstock.beehiiv.com/ Stay Connected​https://click.convertkit-mail.com/27uv20p9mpioh8edr34s8ug63w344hg/58hvh8ug08p6wzc6/dGhlcmFweWZvcmJsYWNrZ2lybHMuY29tb3JibGFja2dpcmxzLmNvbS9wYXRyZW9u Is there a topic you'd like covered on the podcast? Submit it at therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out the directory at https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/directory. Grab your copy of our guided affirmation and other TBG Merch at therapyforblackgirls.com/shop https://therapyforblackgirls.com/shop. The hashtag for the podcast is #TBGinSession. Make sure to follow us on social media: Instagram: @therapyforblackgirls https://www.instagram.com/therapyforblackgirls Facebook: @therapyforblackgirls https://www.facebook.com/therapyforblackgirls Our Production Team Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Gabrielle Collins Director of Podcast & Digital Content: Ellice Ellis Producer: Ndeye Thioubou Production Assistant: Bria Mosley See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at therapyforblackgirls.com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  Hey, y'all. Thanks so much for joining me for session 487 of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. Today, I'm joined by returning guest Dr. Uche Blackstock to talk all about elective health screenings. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors.

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  As an emergency physician, health equity advocate, bestselling author, and founder and CEO of Advancing Health Equity, Dr. Uche Blackstock has spent years helping us understand the inequities that shape our healthcare system and advocating for a future where everyone has access to the care they deserve. As conversations around wellness trends and preventative health continue to grow, so does the popularity of elective health screenings. Today, companies are offering everything from comprehensive blood panels to full body scans, all promising to give us a deeper understanding of our health. But how do we know which screenings are actually necessary? In my conversation with Dr. Blackstock, we're diving into how to arm yourself with the right tools

• 4:51Speaker 00

  to understand which testing is right for you, learning to prioritize your wellness without getting caught up in the pressure to over-optimize your health, and so much more. Press play, and let's get into the conversation.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  Well, thank you so much for joining us again today, Dr. Blackstock.

• 5:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, thank you for inviting me again. Very excited to be here.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, it feels like there's a lot to catch up on. So you have done so many things with your medical background, right? Like, you practiced as a physician, you were an associate professor, so you taught people how to be physicians. You've written a New York Times bestseller, you speak all across, and you are a founder of your own organization. Tell me about this path that has probably led you to not where you would have expected you might be right now in your life.

• 5:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, no, definitely not what I expected. You know, it's interesting, because I always say to myself, and this is what I learned, that if you listen to yourself, if you listen to... Sometimes it may not necessarily be like a little voice in your ear, but if you listen to how your body feels or responds to different experiences. Like, I was in academic medicine, and I was feeling... Even though I had all of these roles and titles, from the outside, I looked like the picture of success, but internally, I felt underappreciated, undervalued, invisible. And I was not sleeping well. I was feeling anxious.

• 6:25Speaker 06

  My body was telling me I had to make a decision about whether to stay in an environment that was not healthy for me versus leaving. And, no, I think for you, you wouldn't make this sounds dramatic, but I feel like it was a life-saving decision that I made to leave, because when I look back at photos of myself in academia, I was so thin, I had dark circles under my eyes. Like, I just was not living my best life. And so I had to make this decision to leave in order to be, to really be in alignment, to be in an environment that supported me. And that's what I did by creating my own organization, Advancing Health Equity.

• 7:09Speaker 06

  I didn't realize that that's what I was doing. But that decision to leave academic medicine, to focus on my consulting from Advancing Health Equity, literally just opened up abundance, opened up doors. But also, I was able to walk in my purpose. And as a result of that, just be happier, be more content, feel more fulfilled.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  I feel like this is such a beautiful message to other people, right? Because I think lots of people are probably considering, like, is this something that I want to continue with? And especially for something like medicine where you had devoted so much of your time, right? Like, there's a family history of working as a physician, right? Like, I'm sure that was not an easy decision to make, to kind of walk away from something that you had kind of been preparing for, for most of your life.

• 7:59Speaker 06

  So true. And it's funny, because my book agent, who I love and has become like one of my best friends, she said to me, "Do you realize the decision that you made to walk away from your academic job? Do you realize how big a decision that was?" And I think it's taken me time to recognize it, because, as you said, I used to work probably since I was in, before high school, thinking about becoming a doctor, because my mother was a doctor. So I was always working towards that goal. And you know, that goal is very, it's intense. It requires a lot of you, a lot of sacrifice, a lot of delayed gratification. And to make that decision, also in academics,

• 8:44Speaker 06

  people don't leave academics because you have a good salary, you have benefits. Like, why would you leave? But I had to leave. And so, looking back, I'm like, wow, I can't believe I did that. But I can't say that I wasn't scared. I was scared.

• 9:02Speaker 06

  But I always say, just because you're scared, doesn't mean that you can't still be brave, right? That you still have to make that decision that's in your best interest, even though it feels uncomfortable. But that discomfort is like what's telling you, I gotta, I gotta peace out.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, you know, I don't know if we talked about this, the first time you were on the podcast, Dr. Black Side, but you and your sister, Dr. Oni, and a circle of other Black women physicians have become my own personal CDC. So you are all who I was looking towards, especially during the pandemic, when there was so much like ridiculous health information. It's like, where do we even go for like reliable information? Like, who can make sense of this for us? And so, you know, I think it kind of is an extension of the work that you do with your organization, Advancing Health Equity. But talk about like health literacy and like, you know, showing up online as a physician to share health information, especially during a time when there is so much like misinformation and disinformation out there. What does that look like for you?

• 10:04Speaker 06

  Yes. No, thank you so much for that question, because it's something that I don't take lightly at all. Like, before I put anything out on social media, or before I go on air, I always make sure that what I am saying is backed by evidence. Because I know that even if I'm on air talking to the host, I'm actually not really talking to the host, I'm talking to the public, right? And I'm talking to our folks, especially. So I want to make sure that I'm saying it in a way that folks, that people understand and can take that information and make informed decisions for themselves. But it's interesting, because I think part

• 10:43Speaker 06

  of how racism works is by withholding information that communities need, right? That's always kind of how it's been. And I think that when we had, we would have the beginning of the pandemic, we were in a crisis. Unfortunately, folks did not have access to the information that they needed. So I kind of, I felt like, this is a time for myself and other Black healthcare professionals, we gotta step up. And we gotta make sure that we're doing our part in protecting our communities, but also not doing it from a paternalistic view, doing it from a view of like, I want to make sure that our community has the information that they need to make, like I said, the informed, responsible decisions for themselves, because

• 11:25Speaker 06

  these are dangerous times. And it's interesting, because I feel like even now, what's going on now, we know that trust in institutions is going down, and that's for everybody, not just Black folks, everybody. But I feel like it's, we're in another time where I really want to make sure that folks have the information that they need to make those informed decisions.

• 11:45Speaker 00

  Well, that's a part of why I wanted to have you back today, because one of the things that we've been talking about as a Therapy for Black Girls team is like the conversations we're seeing around elective health screenings, right? So it feels like there are all these test your levels for this, or the whole body scans, or, and it's like, oh, my gosh, what is all of this? Like, do I need this? Is insurance paying for this? The answer for a lot of them is no. And so, wanted you to really help us make sense of some of these elective health screenings. So can you talk about what an elective health screening is, and how that might be different than like labs that your doctor orders because you see symptoms?

• 12:21Speaker 06

  Right. And also, you know, there are like the basic blood tests that your primary care professional may send at your annual exam that are pretty, are pretty standard, right? This is like evidence-backed, we're gonna check to your complete blood count, we're gonna check your electrolytes, we're gonna check your cholesterol, your hemoglobin A1C, see if you're at risk, or if you have diabetes. So like, there's certain things that are pretty standard to check. But now, I think because there are all of these other businesses out there, where there is like longevity medicine, wellness, that are putting out these other elective screenings that you can take, right? Of these blood tests

• 13:03Speaker 06

  that you can take, that may give you a little bit more information. I want to say that it's not necessarily the standard, and it's not necessarily required. Like, if you want additional information, sure, you can get that. But the question is, is that to make sure that whoever that health professional that you're working with can take that information, ensure it with you in a way that's helpful. That, that may not necessarily always be the case.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  What do you mean there?

• 13:29Speaker 06

  So, for example, if we're checking other blood tests that are non, non-standard, that we want to make sure that, even if it's different hormone levels, right? That there's a healthcare professional that can explain to you what that means, right? A lot of times, it's like, these are telehealth companies, right? There are other reasons why they are marketing these tests in these labs. But we want to know, what are the consequences? What do the results of these labs mean? How do they change how you eat, how you live your life, right? A lot of times, patients are not getting the information.

• 14:06Speaker 00

  Got it. Okay. So you may take these elective tests because you see maybe an ad on Instagram or something like that, which is where I often see a lot of it, right? But there isn't necessarily like a physician, or maybe your physician, right? Who maybe you've developed a relationship with to interpret these results and like, help you understand what the information means.

• 14:24Speaker 06

  Exactly, exactly.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  So in my mind, that feels like maybe something we should be pretty cautious about, because it feels like then there's like an abundance, maybe even an overload of information that maybe leaves you feeling more overwhelmed and anxious when maybe you don't need to.

• 14:38Speaker 06

  Right. And I think also, what's important is that something that you brought up is that you should talk to your own health professional about that. So if you're using these other services, where you're getting these other additional blood work and tests done, like bringing that information back to your health professional and saying, hey, this is what they found, can you help me interpret this also? Or how does this fit into how you're managing my other medical issues that I have? So I think that communication piece is really important. But I think there's such interest in wellness now, and then also longevity, that they're seeing those Instagram ads and saying, oh, I want to sign up for that, because I want to get this whole battery of tests that make, tell me something different,

• 15:23Speaker 06

  right? And like I said, the question is, how does this fit into the care that you're already getting? And I don't want to like stick my nose up at what some of those tests can show, because depending on, for example, if you're perimenopausal or menopausal, some of those additional tests actually may be helpful for you, right? In terms of figuring out what kind of supplements that you need to be on. But again, bringing your own physician or healthcare professional into that conversation is important.

• 15:52Speaker 00

  Got it. So, you know, for example, like I mentioned, like, one of the ones that I feel like I've seen the most conversation around are the full body scans, right? Is it an MRI?

• 16:03Speaker 06

  So usually, it's a CT scan, but it can be an MRI. But the issue with those are, yes. So you mentioned some things like, is it even covered by insurance? But the other thing is, an incidentaloma, oftentimes, those scans will find something that may be abnormal, right? But it may end up, once it's worked up, that it was really nothing, right? Because it'll find, it's very sensitive, these tests are very sensitive, they may find like a little nodule or something, that actually may not have any significant health consequences, but you go chasing down a rabbit hole. Right? And so, right now, there's no real evidence for those whole body scans, whether

• 16:48Speaker 06

  it be CT scans, or MRI. The different types of imaging show different types of pathology and disease. So it depends on which one you get. But what's really important for people to understand is, these tests are not ones that are typically done on a full body, on a healthy person, and can pick up findings that may be abnormal, but may not have consequences. But you end up going down, like I said, the rabbit hole of like workup, additional testing, ultimately to find out that there was nothing significant.

• 17:23Speaker 00

  Which feels like a barrier, right? It feels like, even though we're talking about it, like, oh, this is kind of extra, and maybe not something indicated for most people, it does feel like there now becomes an access to care thing, right? Because this is likely not covered by insurance, if this is not something that's like ordered by your physician because there are concerns about something. So already, the people who are able to afford this are like in a different tier. And then if they find something, what did you call it? An incidentaloma?

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 06

  It's called incidental finding, like a finding that you find not because like the person is having symptoms and because of symptoms, you're looking for something specific. The person's fine, but you're just doing a whole body scan just because they want to see if there's anything wrong. When that happens, you're more likely to find something that doesn't have a consequence to it.

• 18:13Speaker 00

  Hmm. But then if you find one of these things, then I think a physician and likely yourself, I would want to follow up, right? So now we're talking about more testing, right? And so it does become like a cost prohibitive kind of thing, even if it were something that maybe became more mainstream.

• 18:31Speaker 06

  Absolutely. And so definitely, I don't think that there are many insurance companies that are paying for these total body scans. Like that definitely is not happening. So more than anything, people are paying out of pocket for them. And I would say if they're paying out of pocket for them, then it's a considerable amount of money, probably thousands of dollars.

• 18:48Speaker 00

  Right, right. So you've referenced Dr. Black's kind of longevity and wellness, which I think those words clearly have been around for some time. And like that, I think is the goal for many people to be alive as long as possible and to be well as long as possible. But it does feel like a lot of those, the companies that we're seeing and like the ways that people are online are talking about them, like that feels like a newer phenomenon, like this, this wellness kind of ecosystem that has sprung up that is a proponent of these kinds of like elective kinds of tests. Can you say more just about like this industry and kind of like where things stand as you see it?

• 19:25Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I think it's like very attractive to people, like this idea that if there are certain things that you have control over, whether it's like the exercise you do, the supplements that you take, that you can actually live a longer, better life. I think like personally, some of the issues I have with some of these brands is that some of it is not evidence based, right? Like some of it is based on, for example, like collagen supplements, right? People are taking collagen supplements, but actually collagen supplements, your body just digests them like any other food and may use some of it to make some materials for your body, but it's nothing significant though, you know? But people are like sold

• 20:09Speaker 06

  on these, the different indications for these supplements without really understanding kind of what they do. And I have to say like, you need to have a rigorous study, but they haven't been shown to be effective in these rigorous studies. And I'm sure if you've heard of NAD, it's actually something that like our cells make, but you can take it as like a pill, you can take it as a shot, as an IV, and that's related to your energy levels, right? And so people are taking it orally, but orally, it really doesn't have that much impact. Apparently if you give it IV, it can have some effect. But again, like the data that backs all of these supplements up is not really solid and not very convincing.

• 20:52Speaker 06

  But I think for me, when I think about these, the wellness and longevity areas, I think about, it's like they're operating in these silos and not thinking about the systems in which people are living. So if someone is living in an area where there is a food desert, right? Or there are no fresh foods, right? They're only processed foods. Like, how does taking supplements offset what's happening like on a community level? So I think that for me, there is a concern that these companies, like these industries, that they're not really thinking about the whole person. They're just thinking about, okay,

• 21:33Speaker 06

  what if we give this supplement? What if we do this? But not thinking about the situation in which people are living in, or access to care, or transportation, all the other things that we know, what called the social determinants of health, that impact how healthy people are. They're looking at it like very myopically and not thinking about it health more broadly, which is how I think about health.

• 21:58Speaker 00

  Right, right. And I think we've had conversations on the podcast before around like the regulations for supplements, right? And that they are not the same as like the medicines we get from, you know, a prescriber, right? And so, yeah. And so you think like, oh, it's like a natural supplement or something that naturally is made in our body, so it can't be harmful. But these are still things that we should be concerned about in talking to physicians and like healthcare professionals about before we make decisions about taking them.

• 22:27Speaker 06

  Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And just even doing our own research on it, just, you know, seeing what is out there, but definitely having conversation with the health professionals in their lives to see, you know, is this something that would benefit me or not? And what is the evidence for it? Is there any evidence for it? I mean, listen, I take a multivitamin every day, right? And some of the data for multivitamins is not great, but I feel like, okay, what's the harm? I'm going to take, I'm going to take my multivitamin and make sure I'm getting all the nutrients I need, you know? But I'm also going to make sure that I'm eating well and doing the other things, right? To support my health.

• 23:04Speaker 00

  Got it, got it. More from our conversation after the break.

• 23:14Speaker 00

  You know us as an award-winning podcast, but Therapy for Black Girls is also helping connect you to real care in your community. As the year winds down, a lot of us start thinking about what we want to feel in the new year. If finding a therapist is on your list, start at the Therapy for Black Girls directory, where over 5,000 Black women practitioners are ready to connect. Search at therapyforblackgirls.com. And therapists, this is a great time to make sure you're listed and your profile is ready for the new year. Join us at therapyforblackgirls.com/start-here. A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition,

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  a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help like the way forward? How do we best show up for each other? Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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  Host Nora McInerney is back for an all-new season of The Head Start, embracing the journey brought to you in partnership with AbbVie. In each episode, Nora has honest conversations with real people living with chronic migraine, people who are figuring out how to adapt, advocate, and stay connected to the things that bring them joy. This season, she's revisiting familiar voices and introducing new ones who will share their stories about what it means to live with this condition. From the missed moments to the strategies that help them keep going when things feel uncertain. As always, she'll be joined by headache specialist Dr. Christopher Rhine, who offers insight into these challenges and the questions many of us have. If you're new to the podcast, check out the three previous seasons, each one offering

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  Yeah.

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  And the food is delicious at their house. And Daisy has, she just has a good palate. I think being a vegetarian and using, utilizing flavor in the right way, your palate.

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  Yeah, definitely my parents' influence. Food was always around.

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  My parents cooked dinner every single night, and now I cook dinner.

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  Single morning.

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  I cook dinner in the morning.

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• 28:10Speaker 00

  So you mentioned one of the areas where we are seeing a lot of like attention and a lot of these tests and like supplements and things pop up is around like perimenopause and menopause. And it feels like because there has been such a lack of attention to this area for women, it feels like it is also ripe for exploitation, right? And so can you talk about like, how can we vet? Because it still feels like we've had Dr. Sharon Malone on the podcast twice, I think now. Yes, and so she's given us such great information, but also has like blown my mind with all of like, I think it's like a list of 52 symptoms or something of like symptoms that are for perimenopause and menopause. And so I think so many of us are still learning information.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  It feels like it is very easy to kind of be persuaded in ways that are not actually helpful to us as we are just trying to feel better in our bodies right now.

• 29:03Speaker 06

  No, I hear you. And even myself, as someone in perimenopause, I go through that too in terms of like, what's happening? A few years ago, I was having insomnia and not recognizing that that was likely related to being in perimenopause. I was like, why am I not sleeping well? Why am I waking up at 2:00, 3:00 in the morning and I can't go back to sleep? So, and then part of that was like talking to my doctor, talking to my OB-GYN, and then figuring out, okay, what do I need to make sure that I sleep well? But also recognizing that was part of the perimenopause symptoms. And so I think, you know, one of the issues, and I'm sure Dr. Malone mentioned this, is that not even OB-GYNs get substantial training during residency in perimenopause, menopause, right?

• 29:48Speaker 06

  And then not only that, but now just women being studied, right? And then older women being studied. That has been an area that's been incredibly neglected. So I think that, I know for me, one thing that I look for, and it's so funny, you talked about Dr. Malone, because I will be using like my alloy, which is the organization that she's chief medical advisor for, because they have menopause specialists, right? And so you definitely want to do your research, make sure that you're finding people that have special training in that area, because even most, like I said, most OB-GYNs don't have that, right? And then also, there's so much new data coming out, right?

• 30:31Speaker 06

  Like even about like hormone replacement therapy, right? There is a change recently in how we think about that, right? And there are other ways that we can make the perimenopause, menopause period for women more bearable. But I think part of it is also the education piece, recognizing the symptoms, right? Recognizing that also like for Black women, we experience perimenopause symptoms much earlier. And so we may be having brain fog, we may be having the hot flashes, we may be having these symptoms that are disrupting our daily lives, and we're like, what is going on? And we may go to our own healthcare professionals, and they're like, no, no, you're fine, you're just stressed, right?

• 31:12Speaker 06

  So I think that the health literacy piece is also very important as well.

• 31:17Speaker 00

  So are there any elective health screenings that you can think of that you feel like could be good ones for us to maybe talk with our physicians about taking?

• 31:27Speaker 06

  Hmm, I think for me, a lot of the screenings that are recommended that we already have are ones that are based on a lot of data, right? The years of experience, whether they be screenings for breast cancer, for cervical cancer, right? For colon cancer, for lung cancer. So I think for me, those definitely radiology studies, the blood tests that we get at our annual exams, I cannot think of ones that are more beneficial than those.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  Got it. Okay, okay. And I think that there are even like new screenings, like suss out like different kinds of cancers, right? Like, aren't there new screenings that will tell you if there's an indication?

• 32:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, there are, but the thing is, if you may be high risk, family history, that's really important, right? Or if you're having symptoms. So it's not necessarily something for everybody, it has to be indicated.

• 32:25Speaker 00

  Got it. You know, as we have this conversation, Dr. Black, like I also feel like there is an extension of like the elective screenings that kind of comes in the form of the wearables, right? So like the Oura ring and the Whoop, and maybe even the Fitbit or Apple Watch, right? Like the technology that has kind of come out to kind of track different kinds of things? What are your thoughts about that and like how it maybe informs health decisions?

• 32:47Speaker 06

  Yeah, so that's interesting. So the wearables, I think they can provide some important information, right? So I know there are people who were able to diagnose that they had an irregular heartbeat because of their wearable, right? Or that they're not getting enough sleep, right? But again, I think that wearable has to be part of a more coordinated care system, right? It can't just be the person, it's like, okay, my wearable is telling me this, then I'm going to do this, right? Like, how are you talking to your healthcare professional about like what you're finding, or what you're noticing when you wear your Oura ring, right?

• 33:27Speaker 06

  Are you noticing that your heart rate goes up too high when you're exercising or? So again, like, I think the wearables can be, and I think about this like AI, wearables, they can be beneficial, but thinking about how it's being used, how are you coordinating with your doctor, what is the information that you're getting from it? So like for me, I think definitely like, okay, you want to know how many steps that you walked, right? You want to make sure you're hitting between 7,500 and 10,000 steps a day, right? If that's your goal, and evidence wise, we're told that that's a good goal. Like, I think that that makes sense. But then for, there's a lot of other information these wearables are giving and that they're

• 34:11Speaker 06

  sharing, and we need to make sure that people understand what to do with that information.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, and I feel like I've read things recently that talk about like how some of the wearables increase health anxiety, right? Because you find yourself tracking so many things.

• 34:26Speaker 06

  Listen, Dr. Joy, can I tell you, I had to stop wearing, that's why I stopped wearing my Oura ring, because it was stressing me out, it was saying that I wasn't sleeping well. So I was like making sure, I was like waking up like, am I sleeping, I'm sleeping? So I recognized once I stopped wearing it, I could sleep better.

• 34:45Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 34:46Speaker 06

  So I stopped wearing it, and then also I had like a breast mass scare. I'm fine, but while I was going through that, my Oura ring actually told me that I, it thought I was sick. It said I was having minor symptoms, and that was because of the anxiety I was having about this breast mass that we had found. That I got biopsy, ended up being fine, but the Oura ring was making me even more anxious. And so I, so yeah, so sometimes I feel like, okay, maybe there's some information that we need to know, but maybe we don't need to know all the information all the time.

• 35:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 06

  So it's almost like we are inundated with information, right? Now it's about our body and how our body is functioning. And sometimes, like you said, that is anxiety inducing for people.

• 35:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, it almost feels like there needs to be like a middle ground between kind of like ignorance is bliss versus like, I know everything about every cycle and like, I'm tracking all of these things. Like, it feels like there has been, you know, like you mentioned, like so much of the conversation around like longevity and wellness, it feels like we've moved into this, like, how do we optimize everything? And it is moved past just like, okay, I want to be relatively healthy.

• 36:02Speaker 06

  Right.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  Kind of thing. How do you find that balance, especially with all of the things we are exposed to?

• 36:07Speaker 06

  No, I mean personally, like, how do I find it? Like?

• 36:10Speaker 00

  Maybe if you want to share how you found it, but also for people who are listening and kind of struggling with like, okay, I have access to all of these like elective screenings and wearables and data, how do I like kind of get to a happy medium with all of this?

• 36:23Speaker 06

  Yes, I think definitely that's a conversation for folks and their healthcare professionals to see like, maybe talk to them, say, these are like five different things I'm thinking about using, which ones would you recommend? But I also think like, we don't need to have everything, right? We don't need to have every single wearable, and maybe like there's one that you can do, you can use for a little bit and see how that impacts your life. But I think that really being thoughtful about what we're doing and whether or not it's improving our overall well-being or just making us anxious. But again, like, this is a conversation, you know, do your research, talk to your healthcare professional, find out like, also, what is the evidence behind some of these things?

• 37:06Speaker 06

  So even like the elective screenings, like, is this something that is just going to give me extra information so that I don't have to worry? Or is this something that actually I truly need to make sure that I'm healthy?

• 37:18Speaker 00

  So Dr. Blen is like, I want to have a conversation because you've talked about encourage people to do their research a couple of times and that is, you know, kind of standard practice. But the concern, I think, is that like even some of these like health companies or elective testings or the wearables, like there will typically be a physician who maybe serves as a medical advisor. And so I think when many of us see that, it feels like, okay, you know, like somebody who knows what those big words mean, right? Like they're signing off on this and so maybe this is something that I can trust. But I think what the pandemic has exposed us to was that not all physicians are created equal, right? Like some people are just out here, just, you know, with foolishness, right?

• 37:59Speaker 00

  And so how do we like, because it's not enough to just trust a physician anymore. So like, what's the next level of like doing our research and like vetting?

• 38:08Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I understand. And before I go to that, I want to say like, even I was offered a brand partnership recently with a longevity brand that has supplements. And so I, I was like, doing my research on that. And I finally said, no, I can't do this because this doesn't feel like it's alignment with my values because a lot of this is not evidence based and we're telling people that they're going to live longer and all that, and we don't really have the evidence for that. But when you talk about doctor, there are health doctors and other health professionals that are working for these companies and who to trust. So a few things, one, I always tell people, you know, definitely a lot of medical centers, hospitals, they have their patient information page.

• 38:52Speaker 06

  They have a lot of, you know, they have a lot of the Mayo Clinic does a lot, you know, in Rochester, Minnesota, they have a lot of really interesting information about, about health. And so when, if you're looking for health information, the first place I say, I send people is health centers because they're most likely to have evidence-based, non-biased health information. I used to say this easy, but now we can't unfortunately. Yes. The other one I would say is local health departments and there's some more than others depending on, you know, where you're located, but like for example, New York City Health Department, people get information on that website and go anywhere around the country

• 39:37Speaker 06

  to that website. But we know that it's one of the oldest health departments, but also lots of evidence-based information on their website to look at. And then there are some community-based organizations like Hip Hop Public Health, which I always want to give a shout out to, that has a lot of really great videos and health information on them. But I always want to say that make sure that you're vetting who you get information from. So help hospitals and health systems, local health departments, and then community-based organizations.

• 40:10Speaker 00

  Got it. More from our conversation after the break. A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert, Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities?

• 40:55Speaker 00

  How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other? Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 41:06Speaker 05

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by breakout singer-songwriter Alex Warren.

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  To this day, Ordinary would not have done anything and I would have not been able to put it out if Book Talk didn't back it up and if my wife and her friend didn't back it up.

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  Amazing.

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  Pretty crazy how like, just one thing.

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  Right.

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  I mean, you, I bet you, we could point to nine different things in our careers where it's just one thing, all of a sudden, if that one thing didn't happen, then I wouldn't be here.

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  What you're talking about right now is what I've been talking about since the beginning of my career. There's these things outside of you that make everything happen. These other forces somehow came into contact with each other and helped propel you to this place.

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  It's just insane.

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  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 42:57Speaker 00

  Host Nora McInerney is back for an all-new season of The Head Start, embracing the journey brought to you in partnership with AbbVie. In each episode, Nora has honest conversations with real people living with chronic migraine, people who are figuring out how to adapt, advocate, and stay connected to the things that bring them joy. This season, she's revisiting familiar voices and introducing new ones who will share their stories about what it means to live with this condition, from the missed moments to the strategies that help them keep going when things feel uncertain. As always, she'll be joined by headache specialist, Dr. Christopher Rhine, who offers insight into these challenges and the questions many of us have. If you're new to the podcast, check out the three previous seasons, each one offering

• 43:41Speaker 00

  a different perspective on this condition and the theme of resilience displayed while navigating it. So don't miss season four of The Head Start, Embracing the Journey. Listen on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 43:54Speaker 03

  Hi, everyone. I'm Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. In this special live episode brought to you by McCormick's Signature Seasonings, I talk to my longtime friend and makeup artist, Daisy Torri, to hear how she's adopted her family's love of cooking into her own busy life. Daisy's a very fine cook, by the way. Her mother and father are wonderful cooks and they raised the girls vegetarian. Yeah. And the food is delicious at their house. And Daisy has, she just has a good palate. I think being a vegetarian and using, utilizing flavor in the right way, got you in your palate. Definitely my parents' influence. Food was always around. Yeah. My parents cooked dinner every single night and now I cook dinner.

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• 44:59Speaker 00

  And can you say more about like just wading through the Instagram, TikTok threads of it all, right? Where we are inundated with so much health information and people like you who are like credible, like you are sharing information on these platforms. And so it's you, but it's also other people. Like, how do we kind of know how to wade through the credible health information?

• 45:21Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I will say this, what they've found is that online, there are like probably between 10 and 15 social media accounts that disseminate the most misinformation. And usually those are not healthcare professionals. And so I would say, follow the healthcare professionals, but also look them up, see what their background is, what are their degrees in, where did they get training in? Are there any red flags that you see based on, you know, brand partnerships or anything that they've had with other companies? But it really is, it's interesting because there's a trust in health barometer that just came out from Edelman, which is a communications firm.

• 46:05Speaker 06

  And they found that people are following for health, a lot of influencers who, they may not be health professionals, but people are connected to them and want to follow them because they have a similar lived experience. They may have a similar illness that the person had, right? They may have endometriosis and we know that that hasn't been studied well, right? And so they follow this person, but I think people have to keep in mind that while this is a person that went through this experience and is an expert in their body, they may not necessarily be an expert in like, in that field of, or fund of knowledge, right? And so it's really helping people differentiate between who is an influencer, who is a health

• 46:49Speaker 06

  professional that has the background that you can get information from.

• 46:55Speaker 00

  You know, we had a similar conversation on the podcast recently just around mental health content, right? And that, you know, of course, lived experience has a place, right?

• 47:03Speaker 06

  Of course.

• 47:03Speaker 00

  Like you want to feel not alone.

• 47:04Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 47:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's real benefit, but there's also real benefit to listening to people who have studied this and like have more than an in of one to compare symptoms and talk about prognosis. And like, there are just lots of different things that I think come into the picture that maybe people don't even know that they don't know. What would you say to maybe other physicians who are thinking about like sharing information online? Like, what kinds of maybe best practices would you offer?

• 47:31Speaker 06

  So one, I actually wish there would be more, and I've seen it increase, more, more physicians and healthcare professionals, nurses, physician assistants, nurse midwives. I've seen people, like more health professionals with accounts sharing information. And that's what I love because I feel like in this, especially in the moment that we've been in the last few years, again, now where there's so much misinformation and disinformation, we really need health professionals, especially of color, to be that voice of reason, the adult in the room, the person that is giving information that is relevant to our communities.

• 48:12Speaker 06

  Like, to me, that is so incredibly important. And I would just say, for other health professionals, one thing that I do is like, I never want to talk down to people. This is just more about like, this is what I think is interesting. This is how I think this information can help you. And this is how I want to say in a way, because like, also the other thing is in terms of health literacy, most health information should be conveyed at between a fourth and sixth grade level, right? And a lot of times, that's not the case. A lot of times, there is so much information, and then the way that it is conveyed in just a very high level way, people don't understand, right? And I get it. So that's the other

• 48:55Speaker 06

  piece I would recommend to people is like, making sure that if you're trying to speak to the public, if you're trying to speak to certain communities, that you do it in a way, and you're explaining things in a way that people can understand and take that information and use it in a helpful way.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  Got it, got it. What tips might you offer for somebody who realizes like, hey, I really want to improve my health literacy? Like, what does that look like? What could I start doing to improve health literacy?

• 49:19Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, that's such a great question. I feel like, I want to say that it starts actually, hyper local and local, like even going to a lot of local health departments, they have community health fairs, they have a lot of activations. So even going to those events, whether it's in your community or nearby community, getting to know the folks that work at the health department, there are a lot of folks that are community navigators that have relationships with community-based organizations. But just sort of like getting to know those folks, getting to know what are the organizations that they associate with that can be supportive and helpful to people. And then also asking them where

• 50:00Speaker 06

  they get their information from as well. Like, who are their trusted messengers? Because I think in terms of health, we're seeing that it's not just typical health professionals, it's community health workers, it's patient navigators, it's other folks in the community that are doing work in a way that's not so traditional.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  You've already mentioned Dr. Blackstock, how so much trust has been eroded. You know, that was difficult, I think, even before the pandemic for the Black community, and definitely got further eroded through the pandemic. We know so many Black women have had traumatic experiences with physicians, their feelings being dismissed, symptoms, you know, kind of being minimized. What do you feel like is the responsibility of the medical institutions to try to regain and rebuild that trust?

• 50:45Speaker 06

  Well, it's so interesting that you mentioned this because I literally just wrote an op-ed for MS Now, formerly MSNBC, but it's about how medical mistrust, that term, it needs to go because it places the blame on Black patients. Like, what's your problem? Why don't you trust the healthcare system? What it should be, what have institutions done, well, we know what institutions have done to not gain our trust, but what are they doing to gain our trust? It's more about institutional untrustworthiness, right? And so I talk about in the piece, there's actually a study that we just all found out

• 51:26Speaker 06

  about from the 1960s, federally sponsored study involving the RSV vaccine that enrolled Black infants, and the parents didn't know, and the babies ended up dying. And the parents got found out only a few years ago. And now they're suing the government, right? So here, we're still finding more and more stories of our communities, our babies, being, being exploited and their lives placed at risk, dying, right? And then I also wrote about the piece that, that Find a Black Doctor Directory is now, there's a lawsuit against it for not allowing a white doctor. But that is, the Find a Black Doctor Directory is

• 52:07Speaker 06

  a response to the way that we've been treated and continue to be treated by health, healthcare institutions, right? That's us trying to protect ourselves, right? So how I think about it is, is that healthcare institutions cannot place a burden on patients. They have to center patient voices, patient concerns, communities' concerns. They cannot operate in a silo. They cannot not acknowledge past harm. They cannot acknowledge what happens in current day when we interface with the healthcare system. All of that, we have to talk about openly. There has to be accountability for it. There has to be action, right? Like,

• 52:50Speaker 06

  we can't wait till there's a pandemic and tell people, okay, now you gotta take this vaccine. And people are like, excuse me? What? Why? And then be rolling out vaccines from the hospital first. That, you know, it's like, we have to think about community first and foremost, always.

• 53:07Speaker 00

  Dr. Blackstock, how do you feel like you've seen health institutions be impacted by like, all of the DEI rollbacks? Have you seen that?

• 53:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah. So that's like the essence of the work that I do at Advancing Health Equity. And I would say that last year, what I saw was that there were so many organizations that just got scared. They didn't have the, so I would say got scared, didn't have the courage, didn't have the courage. And some of them honestly weren't really ever committed, really truly committed to DEI and health equity in the first place. But there are some organizations that I'm so proud that we are working with that are still very much committed. And I think what I would, we'll say is post 2020, the fact that we started

• 53:56Speaker 06

  talking about racial health inequities, Goshambarso, that was something, right? But then, we, what we need to have strategy, we need to make sure that that is operationalized, that equity is operationalized, right? And so what we see is when last year happened, so many organizations were like, okay, we're getting rid of this, right? But the fact is, that doesn't erase the fact that the inequities still exist and are even getting worse, right? And so they have to be, I mean, I can't imagine, how can you be a healthcare institution and not concerned about the well-being of all your patients? Because if not anything, if you don't care about the moral imperative, at least you should care about the business imperative.

• 54:39Speaker 00

  Right.

• 54:40Speaker 06

  Because there is a return on investment when you invest in people's health, right? That actually, you spend less on, the hospital costs are less, spending less on chronic illnesses. So if you don't, at least don't care about human beings as human beings, if you care about the business side, there's an argument for that, too. So I will say that we are in, as you know, very difficult time, that I think we need to still hold healthcare institutions accountable, say, what are you going to do about these inequities that we see?

• 55:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. If there was one thing that you wanted every listener to walk away from this conversation, kind of knowing about preventative health, or about thinking about their health maybe more proactively, what would it be?

• 55:23Speaker 06

  I want us to really prioritize not just our health, but our well-being. And when I say that, is that in order for us to be great partners, great parents, great siblings, daughters, we really have to put ourselves first when it comes to not just our health, our physical health, but our mental well-being. You know, I think a lot of times, you know, we're not socialized like that. We're socialized to put everybody else first. And so I want to make sure people are getting their screenings, like their recommended screenings. So if you have a family history that has to happen earlier, making sure that you're going to

• 56:04Speaker 06

  your appointments, making sure that you are listening to your body. If something doesn't feel right, making sure that you're going to get that checked out. If someone doesn't listen to you, go to somebody else, right? That we really have to put ourselves first because we can't be there for the other people in our lives. We can't, not only just the other people in our lives, but we can't walk in our purpose, enjoy life if we don't take care of ourselves. So I just want to remind us of that. I know that's easier said than done, but I want to say that we deserve that. We deserve that, absolutely.

• 56:37Speaker 00

  And what's next for you, Dr. Blackstock? I know you've been doing such incredible work with your organization, but what can we expect next from you?

• 56:46Speaker 06

  So actually, I have, this past year, just dealing with all of the political climate and everything, still doing the work with Advancing Health Equity, but just had some clarity on kind of how I want to use my time. So I kind of am going to do a little bit less on my consulting business, but still have an impact in that way. But I want to spend more time writing. I'm hopefully, I'll have my second book deal this year. I want to continue speaking. I want to continue supporting leaders in the health equity space, especially as they go through this difficult time. I wanted to do something for myself. So I started playing the violin again, I'm playing 90s R&B. So just finding, just finding things that fill my soul. Yes, because this work is hard, as you know. And so, I want

• 57:31Speaker 06

  to make sure that I'm also taking care of myself as well, and my soul.

• 57:34Speaker 00

  I love that. I love that. And remind us where we can stay connected with you? Where can we grab a copy of your first book, but also stay tuned for news on the second one?

• 57:44Speaker 06

  Thank you. So I'm on all social media platforms, some variation of my name, Uche Blackstock. My website is ucheblackstock.com. And Legacy can be purchased anywhere books are sold. And hopefully I'll have some good news for you all later this year on the second book.

• 58:01Speaker 00

  Perfect. We will be waiting for you to celebrate that good news with you.

• 58:05Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for joining us again, Dr. Blackstock.

• 58:08Speaker 06

  Thank you, Dr. Joy.

• 58:13Speaker 00

  I'm so glad Dr. Blackstock was able to join me for this conversation. To learn more about her and her work, be sure to visit the show notes at therapyforblackgirls.com/session487. And don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or suggestions for the podcast? If you have topics you'd like us to discuss, drop us a message at memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at therapyforblackgirls.com/directorying. Don't forget to follow us over on Instagram at @therapyforblackgirls and come on over and

• 58:55Speaker 00

  join us in our Patreon community for exclusive updates, behind the scenes content, and much more. You can join us at community.therapyforblackgirls.com. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu, and Bria Mosley. Editing was done by Denison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.

• 59:24Speaker 00

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Covino and Rich Davis from Covino and Rich. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks.

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  Apparently, we celebrate. At Food Lion, you can count on fresh food at fresher prices when your fresh detector is going off.

• 1:01:20Speaker 05

  Head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com. Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.