Session 463: A Love Letter from Tiffany Cross

What does it mean to feel fully seen, valued, and loved—especially as a Black woman navigating relationships, ambition, and self-worth? In today’s conversation, I’m joined by journalist, political analyst, and author Tiffany Cross to discuss her new book, Love Me. Tiffany opens up about the inspiration behind the book, the complexities Black women face in dating and relationships, and the importance of reclaiming softness, joy, and vulnerability in a world that often asks us to be everything for everyone. We also explore how media narratives shape perceptions of Black women, what healthy partnership can look like, and why self-definition is such an important part of the journey toward love. About the Podcast The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Resources & Announcements Want to reflect on this conversation in community? Join us inside our Patreon https://community.therapyforblackgirls.com/ community where we’re unpacking this episode together. You can now catch episodes of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@therapyforblackgirls. Be sure to subscribe to get new episodes every week. Did you know you can leave us a voice note with your questions for the podcast? If you have a question you'd like some feedback on, topics you'd like to hear covered, or want to suggest movies or books for us to review, drop us a message at memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls https://memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls and let us know what’s on your mind. We just might share it on the podcast. Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals. https://www.sisterhoodheals.com/ Where to Find Our Guest Website https://www.tiffanydcross.com/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tiffanydcross/ Grab your copy of 'Love Me' https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/tiffany-cross/love-me/9781538775493/ Stay Connected​https://click.convertkit-mail.com/27uv20p9mpioh8edr34s8ug63w344hg/58hvh8ug08p6wzc6/dGhlcmFweWZvcmJsYWNrZ2lybHMuY29tb3JibGFja2dpcmxzLmNvbS9wYXRyZW9u Is there a topic you'd like covered on the podcast? Submit it at therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out the directory at https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/directory. Grab your copy of our guided affirmation and other TBG Merch at therapyforblackgirls.com/shop https://therapyforblackgirls.com/shop. The hashtag for the podcast is #TBGinSession. Make sure to follow us on social media: Instagram: @therapyforblackgirls https://www.instagram.com/therapyforblackgirls Facebook: @therapyforblackgirls https://www.facebook.com/therapyforblackgirls Our Production Team Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Gabrielle Collins Director of Podcast & Digital Content: Ellice Ellis Producers: Tyree Rush & Ndeye Thioubou Production Assistant: Bria Mosley See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at therapyforblackgirls.com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  Hey, y'all. Thanks so much for joining me for session 463 of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors.

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• 3:31Speaker 00

  What does it mean to feel fully seen, valued, and loved, especially as a Black woman navigating relationships, ambition, and self-worth? In today's conversation, I'm joined by journalist, political analyst, and author Tiffany Cross to discuss her new book, Love Me. Tiffany opens up about the inspiration behind the book, the complexities Black women face in dating and relationships, and the importance of reclaiming softness, joy, and vulnerability in a world that often asks us to be everything for everyone. We also explore how media narratives shape perceptions of Black women, what healthy partnership can look like, and why self-definition is such an important part of the journey towards love. But first, we are desperately

• 4:11Speaker 00

  in need of an emergency pop culture check-in. A lot, maybe even too much, has occurred. And as a therapist, but also someone who appreciates and loves pop culture, it wouldn't be me if I didn't dig into the mental health aspect of all of this. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag #TBGNSession, or join us over in our Patreon to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community.therapyforblackgirls.com. Here's our conversation.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Tiffany, thank you so much for joining us again today.

• 4:49Speaker 04

  I'm so happy to be with you, Dr. Joy. I want to tell the audience, I was so excited to talk to you in particular about my book, that I was emailing you, asking you, can I please come on? Because you have such a, one, a calming spirit in talking to you. Your eyes are very even. But also because of what I wrote about, I really just wanted to have a conversation with someone who could connect with me as a mental health professional, but also just as another Black woman. And so, thank you for having me on your wonderful show.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  No, thank you for coming back. And I definitely will say, after reading the book, it is a very therapy for Black girls code. So you came to the right place for this conversation, for sure. So as you are kind of on the dawn of this new book tour, new book release, I just want to check in to see, how are you doing right now? Like, how's your heart?

• 5:41Speaker 04

  My heart is full. It is a time for me seeking the source of self. And so, I had to make sure that I was full enough to do this and protect myself in a way. I think something that's reflective of me, but maybe all Black women, it just feels like in life, I had this container. And there was a faucet pouring into the container, and there was no drain. And so, I had all this love, you know, we're born with all this love. And as I went out into the world to live a life, and was raised in a home and all the things, the faucet started to slowly drip.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  And then a drain came, and things started draining, because I was giving what was in that container away. I think that's something true about us as Black women. We don't just have a desire. To be loved, we have a desire to love. And so pouring that in the wrong places or not really knowing how to corral that love and distribute it properly and purely with pure intention, it felt like it started to drain. And so when I was writing this book, it was a part of plugging that hole and getting that faucet to turn back on. And it's still a work in progress. But I am just day by day in the company of my sisters who are going through the same filling up.

• 7:09Speaker 04

  And so at this particular moment with you, my heart feels very full.

• 7:14Speaker 00

  Good, I'm glad to hear that. When we talked before, a huge fan of your work and have followed your career and can definitely say Tiffany, and I wonder if you agree, this is the most vulnerable I see you in your writing and in your talking. I mean, you've shared bits and pieces, of course, across platforms, but in looking at Love Me and reading it, you are sharing all the things, right? And so I'm curious what that process was like for you and how are you anticipating the receiving of, you know, so much vulnerability kind of on the reader's end?

• 7:49Speaker 04

  I'm trying to brace myself for it because at the time it felt like a conversation with like the collective you, the collective us. There wasn't really a face that when you write a book, you're writing to someone. So it was like, oh, I want to write to black women. And so in just people get the advance reader copy or people get digital galleys. And then when you're faced with like, oh no, an individual is repeating back to you these very private, personal thoughts that you had, then it becomes real. So I'm trying not to anticipate it too much. I say the quiet parts out loud, some of those dark thoughts that we don't want to share at brunch with our girlfriends. I believe courage is contagious, so I try to share those things in service to black

• 8:31Speaker 04

  women to give ourselves permission to be more open and vulnerable. There's some family stuff I write about the relationship with my mother and she will not read the book and she will be highly offended that I write about anything that doesn't paint her to look like. Clara Huxtable. So that stuff is like my heart hurts because I want to honor my mother, but also acknowledge the truths of things that happened in childhood that made me feel a little unworthy. And I think that's a balance sometimes that we as Black girls growing to be Black women have to confront in face. We can hold these two truths, you know, we can hold the truth that my mother was wonderful and did the best she could with the emotional coping skills and emotional tools that she had at the time. And also, there were some things that

• 9:16Speaker 04

  happened in life that traumatized me and that hurt me. And those two thoughts, I can hold them. And so I think about those components as well in the book. So I've really been trying to give other people. I gave myself permission. It feels, I don't know if you feel like this, Dr. Joy. I don't know if I'm allowed to ask this because, you know, in therapy, they're like, let's talk about you. You're like, you're not talking about myself. But I feel like at this age in life, I don't know how old you are, I'm forty seven. I feel like at this space in life for the past few years, I've been meeting myself. And it's been a dark process, a painful process, but also a beautiful process, a blossoming process. And I really enjoyed meeting this

• 10:01Speaker 04

  version of myself. And I am looking at the past versions of myself and thanking them, thanking them for who they were for me, thinking, I write about heartache and the relationship ending, and I write about hate texting and like all the awful things I would say to this guy in this very toxic relationship. And I thank the person who showed up for me at that time, who protected me as best she could, and give me myself grace at that time, as I kiss her goodbye. You served your role here, and thank you. I'll remember you always. And now you can go. You can go be in peace, so I can have my peace. So navigating those things in front of an audience, with an audience that's also going through the same, that also will stand up in a room of

• 10:44Speaker 04

  three hundred people and share their story, I think will be a beautiful journey. And that's what I'm hoping to curate. And I hope at some point, if we're in the same city, I would love to be in a conversation with you. I have amazing Women on my book tour, Sunny Hostin from The View, Joy Reid, Jemele Hill, Van Lathan, Mark Lamont Hills, I have all these great people, but I think it would be beautiful to be in conversation in a live audience with an actual therapist and someone with your skill and background says, I'm putting you on the spot. But at some point, I hope that we can be in the same city and do this together.

• 11:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that we got to give people time to read it first and then give, because I feel like our conversation would be best with a live audience after people have seen it, right?

• 11:26Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  A lot of it will be things that they recognize and like you said, are not proud to admit about themselves, right? Like, oh, like I also said that hate text, or I also did that thing I'm not so proud of.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  So I completely agree with you there. So I thought it was a really interesting format, you know, Tiffany, because when I think about like you and your voice and kind of the moment we find ourselves as Black women in this country, I think about like somebody who will have a very sharp, candid perspective on like, okay, how do we contextualize this moment we find ourselves in? And you do some of that in the book, but you also kind of lay it against the background of like your personal dating and like friendships and those kinds of things. What made you take that type of approach to talk about like where we find ourselves as Black women right now?

• 12:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, I thought it was important to do that, Joy, because so often, especially in this environment, when we talk about Black women, we're typically talked about as a political commodity, or we're the 92%, or you know, we're the vertebrae of America. We are the backbone of the Democratic Party and all these things that are really misnomered. If someone asked me, who are you? None of those things would even come into my thought process. It's not even a part of the lexicon when it comes to who am I, nor is it when it comes to who are we collectively? And so I wanted to write a book that acknowledges these things, that yes, we are very active politically. Yes, Black women read more than the average and yes, Black women are ambitious and successful.

• 12:51Speaker 04

  Those things are true, but let me tell you why those things are true, because underneath all of those monikers is a whole human being with a beating heart and sometimes a broken heart. And so let's unpack why some of those things exist. Why are we so ambitious? Not aiming to build an empire, some self-serving empire to ourselves. We are ambitious, sometimes born out of our charma, sometimes in the aim to break a generational curse. We are ambitious for our community. The security we build doesn't belong to us exclusively. We are building this in a defiant way. You know, our ancestors are reaching through generations for us to achieve what they could not. So I wanted to let us have a convening amongst ourselves in these pages to better understand that.

• 13:35Speaker 04

  We're not cogs in the corporate machine, but we are doing something bigger in service to something greater. So I wrote the book in sections, our labor, because we pour our love into our careers and our careers are not pouring love back into us, especially not now in this anti-D E I environment. Our land, because we pour our love into a country and this country is certainly not pouring love back into us. We have a new president who openly disparages women, black people, all people, and our love, because we pour our love into our companions, our counterparts. And I won't say that they don't love us back. We don't always feel that love.

• 14:18Speaker 04

  And so I wanted to acknowledge even that, this perception of war, this perception of this divide between black men and black women. I wanted to first examine, is that even true? And then examine the pain that we are all carrying, not just of our lifetimes, but as a woman, a black woman, I'm carrying my grandmother's pain. And so to acknowledge that our black men are carrying some of that pain too. We know, because we carry our pain and we carry theirs. And it seems like we reached a point in life where it's like, I got to lay these burdens down. Because they are heavy. They are heavy on my back and we are standing on the line, trying to break generational curses. Our backs are lashed a thousand times and our tears are running on empty sometimes.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  And our screams are just, our voices too hoarse to let out a sound. And it felt like a collective moment to do that after the election, and it wasn't rooted in politics. I think that's such. A reductionist viewpoint of who we are as women. I think it was collective heartbreak. And we didn't have some big Zoom. We didn't send a nationwide group chat. Black women pass each other on the street. We saw each other and we looked at each other and we just knew. And that's a connection like nobody else has. We just knew. And even now, when I board flights, I see the flight attendant when I'm walking through airports. If I'm sitting getting a cup of coffee, when I see us, there's a knowing to us.

• 15:48Speaker 04

  We look at each other and we just know it is a time at this moment to focus on ourselves. And so I wanted to write something that was a guide. I'm not giving anybody the keys to happiness. I'm still figuring this out, but I at least wanted to offer a moment for us to stand still and seek the source of self, love ourselves, for us to be able to get up and fight again and figure out what it is we're fighting for.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  More from our conversation after the break.

• 16:19Speaker 00

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other? Tune in to find out.

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• 18:24Speaker 00

  So much of the book is really about this identity and worth, self-worth, but also worth in other ways. You mentioned you started to question whether joy or fulfillment was something that you even deserved to have. Can you talk about that experience and what has allowed you to maybe get a little further in that process?

• 18:42Speaker 04

  You know, I think it's a question that we all ask of ourselves at some point in life, whether we want to admit it or not, because we come into the world, just to be born. A black girl is a radical move. It's a radical last step to say, "I'm claiming life, what to survive, to be here, what our ancestors went through, what our mothers go through to labor us, to bear us, with maternal mortality and how we're treated." So even to climb our way into this world as a sentient being, from that moment, everything seems to tell us that we are undeserving, despite your best effort.

• 19:23Speaker 04

  From little things as a child, I remember older folks saying, "Don't you get out here and embarrass me in front of these white folks." Even something as simple as that lets me know that they are better than me. That there is a hierarchy and I am not at the top and I need to be on my best behavior for them. When you go to dilapidated schools and live in red line neighborhoods, society is letting you know that you are undeserving of nice neighborhoods and new school books. And when the world doesn't look like you and when American society reflects back blue eyed Barbie dolls or sitcoms that don't reflect your lived experience,

• 20:02Speaker 04

  you feel like, "Yeah, there's something about this that I don't deserve the life that other people seem to live." And unlearning those things and disrupting those things, because if it's rooted in you in childhood, by the time you enter a workforce, you almost have to fight for it. It's like you're declaring yourself worthy instead of just believing yourself worthy. You know, it's like, "I'm gonna fake it till I make it." And so for me, I had to examine, "Where do I get the idea that I am not worthy?" And so many people, you ask a room full of black women, like, "Are you worthy?" And you know the answers, it's a bunch of black women. We're like, "Yeah, I'm worthy and I'm it and I'm all of that." You ask a woman, "Black woman, do you love yourself?"

• 20:44Speaker 04

  And, "Oh, I know I love myself. I just booked me a spa day yesterday. I love myself." But I wanted to peel away the layers and really probe deeply. Are you living your life like you love yourself? Are you dating like you love yourself? Are you showing up in friendship circles when somebody's putting another woman down? Are you showing up in that space like you love yourself? Because you can't put somebody else down. Are you loving yourself? So I wanted to examine that in my own day to day being and some of the darker spaces that I navigated because, you know, when my show was canceled, I was heartbroken. I was on the show with you before. I told you I was so heartbroken. I was so devastated. But a part of me felt like, "Well, I was already bartering with the universe

• 21:27Speaker 04

  against my predetermined fate that I am not worthy of a life of ease and success and rest." And at that time, the country was like, "We hate you, black women." And at that time, a man I had been dating was like, "I don't know if I want to be monogamous." Hello, Megan Thee Stallion and whatever the boy name is. So...

• 21:48Speaker 04

  The conflation of those three things, it caught up with forty seven years of life. And it was just crushing me, joy crushing me. But in my darkest moment, I knew there were other black women down there with me in the depths of hurt and pain. And as I climbed out, I saw to the left and the right, other black women trying to climb out too. And some fell back down, some kept climbing. Everybody's on their different journey. In writing this, I owed it to my fellow black women to be as honest and unfiltered as possible with some of the questions I probed of myself because I see it in other women. I see brokenness in other women. I see hurt in other women.

• 22:31Speaker 04

  And that's not judgment, that's acknowledgement because there's some brokenness in me still. And I think the more honest we are about that, that's part of the journey. There's no such thing as healed. There's only healing. And so on that journey, I just, I wanted to give a literary light to people in those dark moments as they find that. And I know that you're asking the questions, but just, I'm just really curious, however comfortable you are sharing this, in your life, did you or do you ever feel unworthy? And what is it that you do in those moments to bring yourselves out of that?

• 23:06Speaker 00

  Ooh, now, now you all in my business, Tiffany.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  I definitely think that there have been some periods of being a mother that have reminded me of that feeling like, am I really doing this right? Or like, am I worthy of these kids kind of thing? Because I feel like there isn't really a manual, right? And so today, like, I spent most of the morning at field day and then had to come back home to like, do interviews, right? And then I'm thinking like, oh, now I'm missing the afternoon games, right? And so navigating mom guilt, I think stirs up some of those feelings for me.

• 23:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:40Speaker 00

  And it really helps, I think, to check in with other moms who are like, we all do this. It's the navigation. I also want them to see me successful in a career, but I also want to be present and like, available to them. So I definitely think mothering has reminded me and has opened up a space of Like examining this worthiness and like navigating these very complicated feelings as a woman.

• 24:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, thank you. Thank you for for sharing that. Cause I think a lot of people aren't as unfiltered and honest about it. And I think it benefits us when we talk about it, especially motherhood. I don't have kids. When I write about motherhood, I'm only writing about it through the lens of an adult child of someone. And so coming to understand my mother, my mother probably had those moments. And I remember like saying things to my mom, I used to watch Jem when I was younger. Jem, she's truly outrageous, truly, truly, truly outrageous. I'm aging myself. Some of you all don't know what that is, but anyway.

• 24:36Speaker 00

  You gotta look it up.

• 24:37Speaker 04

  Yes. She was a popular cartoon in the eighties and my mother was like, what? I don't know anything about that. And I was like, mom, how can you not know that? I watched that all the time. It was one of my favorites. I used to watch it like every Saturday morning or whatever day. And she was like, because that's your memory. And she was right. That was my memory. Her memory was likely of her getting me dressed, you know, or making breakfast or getting herself together. Cause you had to get out the house. And so through the worthiness, just from your kid's perspective, their memories are not yours. And so I feel like with motherhood, and it's what made me have peace with my own mom. A friend of mine, Rachel, she told me with these kids, just three kids, she said, with these kids,

• 25:21Speaker 04

  you can do everything you can for them. And it's either gonna be the best thing for them or the worst thing for them. But you try your best.

• 25:28Speaker 00

  Right. It's all really.

• 25:30Speaker 04

  Yes. My mother, like who would say, my mother was clear. I was supposed to say who I would have been, you know? I, she was who she was and made this person. So how can I begrudge her of her pains and the things that she confronted in life? So these are the things that I, I hope after reading the book, that it spawns these types of conversations at book clubs and brunch tables and among black women. Because, I mean, I think this is a part of how we survive these times. The intimate sense of community that we have with each other. I don't know any other community like ours. And I hate when I hear people say, we need to come together, black folks, but we don't belong. And I'm like, name somebody more together than us.

• 26:13Speaker 04

  Like, we are so, the unique experience we have here in this country with each other. I can go to any of y'all's house for the holidays. I know the rules, I know what's gonna be on the menu. I know how it works, I know the ass, who made the potato salad, do I rock with this mac and cheese? Like, y'all tell me what to do. I can go to any church, I'm good on any MLK Boulevard. And so, I think there's something sacred about that to be protected. But if we can't love ourselves, like, that kind of thing erode, and it erode our love for each other. And I say also, and then I'm gonna be quiet, but the, around the Megan Thee Stallion stuff, I've been seeing so many comments from other black women of things like, "Girl, you put your business on social media, you know, you shouldn't have done that,

• 26:58Speaker 04

  and you were doing the most, making them this meal." And as a woman of a certain age, I look at that and I think, I can see some brokenness and emptiness in Megan, because she wanted to love this man, she gave her love to this man. But I see brokenness and emptiness in the women who make those comments at her lowest moment. It's a reflection of how you feel about yourself to tell somebody else that somehow, because you put a picture of this man, or you made your content out of your relationship, somehow you invited this heartache on yourself. Somehow you deserve this hurt because you did these things. And I really would like to see us show up in love for each other. The only thing we can say to somebody when your heart is aching like that is,

• 27:41Speaker 04

  "Since I'm so sorry this happened to you, and what do you need from us?" So I hate to see things like that. And I'm saying that when y'all read this, but don't be judging me about stuff about me, okay?

• 27:53Speaker 00

  Listen, listen, I gotta, I know you talked about in the book, your friend got Gray's number, and I also feel like I have a couple of words for Gray now. We don't know who Gray is, y'all gotta read the book to find it out. You know him, we know him only as Gray. But I feel like I got a couple of choice words. But I feel like Tiffany, my book, Sisterhood Heals, came out several years ago, and I felt like, one of the ways I felt like your book was in conversation with- My book was around the way you talked about sisterhood and showing up in online spaces. Right. And I really do feel like there is a way that the internet has really flattened our relationships with one another, that we only see each other as avatars, as opposed to like, you showing up as all of who you are, me showing up as all of who I am.

• 28:36Speaker 00

  And so your example of how people are responding to Meg feels like a, you realize this is an actual black girl, right? Like this could be any of our best friends. Is this how you would respond in real life, but because you almost view her as a caricature and a flattened version of herself online, then you say some things that you probably wouldn't actually say in real life.

• 28:58Speaker 04

  I agree. When you go out to lunch or brunch, I look at tables full of people and they're all looking down at their screen, not at each other, showing each other things on their phone. And I do not spend time with people. If I'm talking to you and you're constantly looking at your screen, I don't choose to spend my time that way. I won't talk through a conversation. I'm not competing with your phone. I think even that, that creates a disconnect between us. But even if there's that disconnect, the fact that your instinct is to say, somehow you invited this heartbreak on yourself. I think that highlights a brokenness in that you think she must have done something, because if she did nothing, then that means that any of us can be this hurt

• 29:42Speaker 04

  by somebody at any time. And I hate to be the one to spoil it for you, young sisters, but yes, that is the key. Anyone can be hurt. You can be the best version of yourself and somebody can still come along and hurt you. So at that time, if that does happen to women who make comments like that, I hope that people meet you with more grace than you meet people when you just make ugly comments about somebody going through a breakup or a day or whoever they are, like just show up with love for each other. That should be the easiest thing. And it's the most radical thing we can do for each other and ourselves as black women. Because you cannot love yourself if you're saying things like that. If your instinct is to say,

• 30:22Speaker 04

  yep, that's what happened when you put the man on those media, you talking to yourself on some level. You are putting yourself down on some level. So I just, I hate to see that. I really do. And I try not to ever be that person. You know, you have friends who are Well, you give them one more chance. Don't talk to me about it. You can talk to me about it a hundred times. I'm never gonna lie to you and I'm not gonna encourage bad behavior. But yeah, you go back like I don't walk around with that shame and guilt. I think you have to talk about it to be able to break free from it if you're hiding something about any of these relationships. Again, this is all about the journey home to self and love of self. And that's a part of it. I don't want people to think there's some big relationship book.

• 31:04Speaker 04

  You know, that's one element of it, but it's so much more than that. It's work. It's our politics. It's our land. It's our connection to the motherland, Africa, our connection to each other. So I try to encompass everything.

• 31:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, it is a very full picture of all of those things. So you check off, green check for covering all those things. It was interesting to hear you talk about like all of the ways that you felt like the success at MSNBC. What was it like afterwards? After the show was canceled and you feel like, okay, I've done, because you talk about a lot of the sacrifices that you made to get that position, the auditioning and those kinds of things, you really wore yourself thin in the interest of this success.

• 31:46Speaker 04

  Very much.

• 31:47Speaker 00

  And I think that that is a huge theme that we will overwork and overthink and kind of give and give and give to a job, a country, a relationship that is not reciprocal. So what has been the process of unlearning that and coming home to yourself? Especially as you think about like your identity and how that's tied to work and success?

• 32:06Speaker 04

  It's given me even a stronger sense of my morality and the conviction in my beliefs. I think this thought of if I do what they want, then I should be safe. If I show up in a way that does not disrupt their comfort, then they should not fire me. Which I understand that way of thinking, but I'm also like, okay, we link like, yeah, because you are so willing to do what they want. Like, it makes it harder for those of us who are standing on the front line. And so even now, I mean, there are shows that I'm not welcome on because I show up and I am decidedly direct about what is happening in this country. I won't sit there.

• 32:47Speaker 04

  Make small talk with somebody who thinks it's okay for mass men to kidnap people off the street. I don't treat it like a performance. You know, this is something that I feel passionate about. And I've always been that way, but I think the intention is, oh, you are a little too honest, or you are disrupting this fable of America, or you're making white people feel uncomfortable, all the things that can happen. The intention is to hold up my head before a crowd and say, see what happens when you negroes get out of water? And so for me, it made me dig in my heels. I will not, I will not ever sacrifice who I am, because what did I gain this platform for?

• 33:27Speaker 04

  Even in a public persona, by the way, and there is no difference between my public persona and who you see me. Me and Joy could be sitting at a restaurant right now, having this conversation, it's gonna be the same version, whether the camera's rolling or not. On my show, whoever you saw, that's who I was. There's one version of me. I don't have the energy to be different versions. And so it gave me the confidence to be that person, because I know I'm on the right side of history. And I think, like I said, courage is contagious. And so if people hear me and I start to water down my message, or I start to try to be more appealing to this corporate entity that's fickle, that can love you on Monday and hate you by Friday, there's just not a big enough check in the world, Dr. Joy.

• 34:10Speaker 04

  It's not anything I can imagine that I'm gonna sacrifice the love I get from my people. I could leave that job, but I could come home, you know? I mean, I ain't never really leave home, but I could come home to my people who are just there with open arms. Like, thank you for what the cross connection gave us. Thank you for what you did. And that meant more to me than the president of the network saying, "Good job," or not. So it definitely made me feel convicted. In terms of what I sacrificed and just working the 18-hour day for months and years, that is a harder thing to unlearn, because I'm still doing that. I'm just working for myself.

• 34:53Speaker 04

  And I write about this busyness that we have. It feels like spirit. Busyness, we're busy moving all the time. And that is sometimes because it is hard to stand still. And sit in how you feel and sit in your thoughts and allow your mind to daydream. Or allow your mind to reflect and recall and remember and feel what those memories bring up. I think with all these things, begging for our attention, our phones, streaming, you know, binge watching 12 hours of TV or something. It takes practice and discipline to say, no, I'm going to stand here in this. And just be present with myself. We can't even be present with each other. Being present with yourself is even harder. So I'm navigating that. I do a better job now than I did some years ago.

• 35:36Speaker 04

  But I think that's a part of the passion that we pour into our career. We are running on that wheel because we feel like the second we stop. Then all of this that we built, it's not going to just fall for us. It's going to fall for our babies. And it's going to fall for our aging parents that we're taking care of. It's going to fall for our nieces and nephews. Whose prom dress we got to pay for, whose class trip we got to send them on. It's going to fall for our cousins who needed to hold $200 for their phone bill, couldn't have it. Our security belongs to so many more people than just ourselves. And that is a balance that is hard to navigate. But sometimes, and I'm having trouble with this, sometimes I have to say, I ain't got it.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  I don't have it and this is my time for myself and that's that. Now, if I'm lying to you, if I say I do that and I don't feel any guilt. If I can put some money on my nephew's band camp. Does that mean I can't get my $300 haircut that I want to get? I'm like, hmm, my haircut, his band camp. Then a part of me is like, but I worked hard and I want my $300 haircut. You know, like this is what I want for myself. I don't want to have to sacrifice that. Ideally, I'd be able to do both. But this is something I worked hard for. So it's a struggle. It's a struggle. A lot of times, and I'm still figuring that out. And this temporary space of life that we occupy. When I get overwhelmed, that's remind myself, it's temporary. This life goes by like that.

• 37:04Speaker 04

  You know, in these forty seven years, take a moment, this being that's a big problem today, I might not be thinking about a year from now. And that will sometimes calm my angst and anxiety. Sometimes, sometimes, other times I might have to get Dr. Joy's cell phone number.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  You already have it.

• 37:22Speaker 04

  I do, I do.

• 37:23Speaker 00

  So I was very excited to see a chapter in the book called "Her Therapist Said."

• 37:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  You've been on the podcast before talking about your mental health journey, but I don't know that we talked about this last time. You talked about the fact that you felt like you were in denial after your therapist said that she thought that you were depressed and you kind of resisted that until you had an interaction. So talk to me about the experience of being diagnosed with depression or recognizing that you had some symptoms and what it was like to kind of recognize that as your reality.

• 37:52Speaker 04

  Well, you know, I first had to acknowledge that my therapist is white. She's a white woman and I talk in the book about how challenging it is to find a black woman therapist and all the challenges that black women have in finding therapy from how much it costs and everything. And so when she was saying, you know, Tiffany, I think that you are clinically depressed, I did immediately assume like, oh my God, they're so fragile, you know? Like, do you think this is depressed? But I'm still getting up, I'm doing everything, I walk. I mean, you know how publicly humiliated I've been? I got a multi-billion dollar network trying to humiliate me and I still have the wherewithal to get up and shower every day without hanging from the shower rod by the end of the day.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  I walk, I go out and do things. So what is she talking about? I just thought it was kind of dismissive of her. And she did have to tell me it is, and this happens a lot, as you well know, it is not that you are not doing those things. I understand you're not laying in bed all day. It's about the energy that it's taking you to get out of bed, to face another day, to walk, to go out, to see people, to engage. And it's true because depression doesn't always show up. Like, somebody comes and they sit at the brunch table and you're like, womp, womp, womp. You know, like, that's not it. I show up looking like this. I show up. Of smiling, joking, laughing, but that is energy. It is taking energy from me because,

• 39:20Speaker 04

  I mean, that's part of it. You don't want to take away from somebody else's joy. So it's like, let me show up and let me pull it together. And sometimes when you don't have it to give, that can be exhausting. So I had to learn about depression and what it might look like. And how it shows up for many people, but particularly how it shows up for black women. And then there was also a hormonal element to it. Dr. Sharon Malone writes beautifully about this, but menopause and perimenopause, I mean, it can come and yank you to a really dark place. Where you just start to feel like it's over, you know, like I'm in the winter of my years. I'm tired. I don't want to do this.

• 40:01Speaker 04

  You can isolate. Not everybody feels this way, but I had to accept that there was life circumstance and there was also a hormonal element. That just made me feel sad and because I wasn't showing up to the table saying, hey, everybody, I'm really sad today. I just didn't experience that as depression. But once I allowed myself to, after I was snapping on folks as you, as I write about. Once I allowed myself to feel it, it became better for me. And I was doing a lot of self-medicating. You know, I'm a smoker, not ziggurants. And so just to help myself sleep sometimes, just to quiet my thought.

• 40:42Speaker 04

  I would have a little bit of a pre-roll and that would put me to sleep and I'd wake up at five in the morning and it would help. And I'm not shaming anybody for that. I didn't. So like I had an addiction in any way. It was just something that helped me out with sleeping. But I will tell you, I'm curious your thoughts about this. I've not talked about this publicly before. What really catapulted me out of that darkest space was I started doing psychedelic therapy. And that was a game changer for me. And I did psychedelic therapy. I don't mean like I'm out in the woods doing mushrooms or on the beach doing ayahuasca. I mean, like with a licensed professional, a therapist who, you know, administers as a part of therapy.

• 41:24Speaker 04

  You have like regular sessions where no drugs are administered, but I saw someone who, we would have three or four regular sessions and then he would administer MDMA or psilocybin and you're like under for like eight, nine hours. You're awake, but you're just in a different place. It changed me. I mean, it really did, Dr. Joy. It changed me. After that, I couldn't smoke anymore. I don't know why. I never complained about it. I never said, I don't want to smoke anymore. But after that, I just didn't have, I just couldn't. I would smoke. It didn't feel right. It didn't taste good in my throat. I was like, oh, I just don't want this. I slept like normally, regularly. I just felt lighter. So it worked wonders for me and I just

• 42:08Speaker 04

  thought it was an interesting point to make here in conversation with you, given the policy that's coming out of this particular administration in this White House. The Department of Health and Human Services, Secretary RFK, who has no medical background at all. But there was an executive order out of the White House saying that they should expedite some of these psychedelic therapies. And right now, a lot of the trials, I would say Johns Hopkins and Yale are the most out front on psychedelic therapy. But a lot of the trials focus on veterans. And there's no problem with that because they have a lot of PTSD, but I'm like, black folks do too. Like, we have a lot of PTSD. And so for me, it was life changing. Life change. It was a demarcation in my mental health journey. So I'm just sharing that. I would love to come back on another show and talk about that.

• 42:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're preparing an episode to talk into some experts about that. So it was interesting to hear you talk about that. I don't feel like I know a lot about it just yet. So I'm really excited to like, learn more about it and talk to people who practiced in this way and hear from you that it was very helpful.

• 43:08Speaker 04

  Very, very. And I'm happy to share whatever with you publicly or privately about my experience, but I hope it's something that we can explore more. And you think about what psychedelic therapy might do for addiction and the industry it would put out of business. When you think about people, long time nicotine users quit immediately. So I just think from a physical and mental health standpoint, it is an area that is far underdeveloped and not explored enough.

• 43:44Speaker 00

  Mm hmm, mm hmm. You mentioned, we've talked about it kind of in passing, this whole conversation around like this administration and all of the policies that are being rolled back. I mean, you talk in the book about all the black women who've lost jobs and like just the grand scape of like awful things that it feels like sisters are really dealing with. What do you feel like is the call to action for our black women right now? And what kind of should we have our eyes on in terms of like, how to take care of ourselves and what this moment means?

• 44:12Speaker 04

  I've been turning into a survivalist because I, I think our call to action is to build shelter for ourselves and our community and to take hold of something because I don't know that we will ever return to. It frightens me when people are like, oh, we'll have another four years of Trump and then things will get back to normal, or I'll just hold on to midterms and then things will be different. I, that's not how I'm experiencing what's happening here. I am experiencing a global shift in superpowers. I think the days of the West are over, like all empires fall. And so this may just be our time to fall. And when you look at the rise of the global South and like what is happening on a global stage from a political

• 44:57Speaker 04

  and economic standpoint, the United States is losing its positioning as being the beacon in the world. And when you look at these emerging economies who are developing partnerships that are starting to shrink and shrink America's relevance, when we're treating our enemies like allies and our allies like enemies, I mean, we're watching it happen. That's from a global perspective and we have, I think, start thinking about building global solidarity with the rising majority everywhere. I think from a more domestic perspective, I am not too keen, Dr. Joy, on saving something that never really served me to begin with. Donald

• 45:37Speaker 04

  Trump was elected under this democracy. Roe fell under this democracy. And so I really don't know how to exist in or co-create something new with people who espouse those types of hideous MAGA beliefs that have become generally acceptable again in this country. And I am not interested in befriending or allying with people who supported this president until yesterday. And then they say all of a sudden, whoa, I didn't know he was going to deport my husband. Like you are not my ally. You're not somebody, I can't make room for you in this lifeboat. Sadly, I'm gonna have to let you drown. Somebody might save you, but it's not my ministry to save you. So I just think in this moment, we have to fight on our fronts. I mean, we do have to.

• 46:22Speaker 04

  Fill up and vote. We do have to gantry and do all the things. We have to attack where we can. But this group project of trying to save this system, I think it has to start to look different and we have to start thinking, how do we save each other? And just to ponder it, I'm not suggesting anything, but I think we have to be open to the idea of why are we so beholden here to this space? I get that our ancestors built this. I get that we were trafficked here and forced here. Like, how can we abandon it? But yes, our ancestors built this, but the ancestors had ancestors, did they not? So if the ancestors had ancestors, then is it fair to say that I am the dream and the hope of the enslaved living here

• 47:07Speaker 04

  in America? Or was the dream and the hope of the enslaved to go back to their home, back to their home in West Africa, back to their home in Congo? And I think we have to start seriously thinking about that. And it's not an easy trek to make. It takes pioneering, especially when you consider how few black folks have passports or the economic ability to leave. But I'm not beholden to this place. And I write about going to Africa and there's something generational and ancestral about connecting me to that land and stepping foot on soil that felt like home and seeing everyone prove, look like me, greet me with open arms.

• 47:49Speaker 04

  I cry, I say, "Quaba!" And it's "Welcome home, sista. You are home." And I've realized I've never once felt that way here. I've never once felt that sense of safety and security here. So why am I fighting to be here? I don't know. And in the book, I'm not suggesting anything, but I'm at least trying to tap into our imaginations to explore what is home for us. So I think those are, before we start to go out here and fight, fight, fight, it's like, well, let's take a minute and examine what we're fighting for. And then let's identify a goal. Like, this is what I desire. And if we work backwards from that goal, then those are our marching orders. So I'm not saying, don't vote. Like,

• 48:31Speaker 04

  I'm gonna be out here voting. I'm gonna be out here doing everything I can. I'm just not putting my life and my livelihood in the hands of this American system. Because I don't know that that will be the thing to save us.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  More from our conversation after the break.

• 48:52Speaker 00

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• 50:56Speaker 00

  If you had to name a single feeling, how would you want people, Black women especially, to feel after reading your book?

• 51:03Speaker 04

  Hmm, fulfilled.

• 51:06Speaker 04

  Fulfilled, seen. I think there's something about knowing you're not so alone on the island. And we can feel that way. We can leave brunches with our friends and feel like, man, they have it all figured out and I just don't. Or they don't have it figured out and I don't either and I'm sad about it, whatever that is. There's something about our solidarity. And I don't know how to give that to other people. I don't even know how to talk to other people about it because there are a lot of people who don't look like us who are buying my book. I have a really good friend, Elsa, who's Colombian. And she read my book and she was like, I know it's a letter to Black women, but I just felt I understood everything you were saying in this book, and I believe she did, you know? She's in my book club and we talk a lot.

• 51:50Speaker 04

  And I could tell that she really connected with it. So I think there's something unique to our experience as Black women in this country that binds us in a way that's unshakable, that makes us impenetrable. And when I see like little ugly comments about relationships or when I see people aiming just to build an empire to themselves, it erodes that solidarity that we have. And so I hope we get in front of it, especially for younger generations who may not know or may not be as experienced in the ways of this world that we are, that we can lock arms in such a way that people read this book and they feel like,

• 52:35Speaker 04

  they feel so moved by it that they want to pass it on to somebody else, that they're like, this book did something for me. I want to buy you a copy. I want to gift you my copy. I felt that way after reading some books. I felt that way after reading Viola Davis's bio. I mean, I just wanted to give it away to people. I felt that way after reading All About Love by Bill Hooks. I wanted to give it away to people. If I could ever even be close to those categories, I would be so humble. So yeah, I hope it's, even the decoration, the cover of the hardcover is meant to be like a... Something on your shelf, something that's on your nightstand, something that's on your coffee table that you look at it and you remember, you feel the warmth in your heart, like,

• 53:16Speaker 04

  yes, like I, I want you to feel like we had a three hundred page conversation with each other. That you know me, because I don't know a lot of the people listening to the podcast, but I know all the people listen to this podcast who look like me. I don't know you, but I know you. I know you and you know me. I belong to you and you belong to me. And I, I'm wrapping us as this bookends of the book, like a blanket. You know what I'm saying? Everybody just come huddle together and be warm and loved and let's talk about all the things, let's cry, let's be angry. But at the end, our hands are intertwined like this. So I'm gonna be doing a lot of hugging on this book tour, I already know. And I'm gonna try to like keep myself together, Dr. Joy, because I've been telling my therapists, I'm like,

• 54:01Speaker 00

  That's not gonna be possible, Tiffany. I, I mean, I guess maybe you can talk to your facilitators about, but the content is so like heartfelt and like personal, so I don't know. I don't know.

• 54:13Speaker 04

  I don't wanna break down on stage and cry every tour.

• 54:17Speaker 04

  I hope I don't. I'm trying to like, at least, not because I don't wanna be that vulnerable with people, but I can't, I ain't no cute crier, you know, like I don't wanna be on stage.

• 54:27Speaker 00

  Thinking about the pictures, like, oh, I need some cute pictures, right, of the moments.

• 54:30Speaker 04

  I'm walking around looking like a raccoon, got a lash falling out, I don't want that. Like, I want, it's okay, but a little cute, see that little dizzle falling to your car. Yes, but you know, some of the stuff I talk about is heavy. Or when other people tell me, because I've had other people come to me and say, I was one of the federal workers who was laid off and I don't know what I'm gonna do. And I weep. I had a speaking engagement in Houston, Black Girl Hocus. And, oh my God, I got on stage and it just started bawling. I was like, I'm sorry, you guys, I'm heartbroken. And I was still writing at the time and I was reading like book excerpts. And I just could not stop crying. And then when I got offstage, other people were coming up to me and just telling me their story.

• 55:12Speaker 04

  And every time I think I got it all out, they would tell me their story and I would just start crying again. So I hope I can at least keep it a little bit together for those times.

• 55:24Speaker 00

  So finish this sentence. Black women deserve to be loved without?

• 55:29Speaker 04

  Limitation. Black women deserve to be loved without limitation. Our love is so boundless. And like I said, we have a desire. Not just to be loved, but to love. And because our love has such elasticity. It's not like we grew up together. I can't tell y'all Joy's whole background, but your spirit exudes love. Your spirit exudes calmness. I mean, you know, we're peers, but I'm talking to you and I'm like, I kind of want to lay my head on her bosom.

• 56:00Speaker 00

  Not you trying to have an Iyama moment.

• 56:06Speaker 04

  But that is so like the you have it, your heart is the elasticity of your heart, it expands. And so I want us to get some of that back, even if we're giving it to ourselves. But it would be nice to get it from the world because we love this world. We are integral to the planet. We are Mother Earth incarnate in many ways. So it would be nice to get some of that back. Black women deserve to love without limitation.

• 56:33Speaker 00

  I love it. I love it. So tell us Tiffany, where can we grab our copy of the book? Where can we stay connected? Where can we find information about where we can find you on the book tour? Tell us all the details.

• 56:43Speaker 04

  Yes, thank you for asking. So the book is available for order now. You can get it right now. And I would just ask, I know the intention or the instinct, I should say, is to like, I'm going to go on Amazon to get my book. Which is fine, get the book wherever you can, but I really want to encourage us to start being patrons of black owned bookstores, independent bookstores. There's Mahogany Books right here in DC. If you order there, you'll get an autographed copy and they can ship anywhere. So find any black bookstore anywhere. There's the Doc Bookshop in Dallas. There is Baldwin and Company in New Orleans, so many Politics and Prose, Busboys and Poets, and so many independent bookstores across the country. And once you fill out that form one time, like all you have to do, you can get all your books from that store.

• 57:26Speaker 04

  So I mean, selfishly, I want to say make sure they're New York Times reporting. But, but I would rather just see blacks bookstores do well because they've always been so integral to us in this environment. And y'all know all about Jeff Bezos. So every time y'all do it, we just put money in this man's pocket when black bookstores can use it. So yes, go get your hard copy. And please display it in your home because the cover was in design with that intention. It is purple because if you combine all the colors of the American flag, you get those shades of purple. So I just, I want people to look at it and wake up and see it and read it once and twice and again. You can find me on tour. So I'm taking off the book tour on May fourth with Sunny Houston from The View and then I'm going from there.

• 58:12Speaker 04

  And I'll be in Atlanta, Philadelphia, Chicago, Dallas, New Orleans, Tulsa, Oklahoma. I'm going everywhere. And you can get details on the book tour at Tiffany D. Cross dot com and look at Love Me Book Tour. All your tickets will, all the access to the tickets will be there. We sold out with Joy. I'm doing, Joy Reed and I are having a brunch. Cause I don't want on the tour, I'm trying to curate experiences, not just these book talks. So I'm doing a stop with Michael Harriet. The wonderful Michael Harriet, who's the author of the bestselling, uh, New York Times bestselling Black AF History. And so for that one, I want to curate like a speakeasy environment. Joy and I are doing a brunch. So I'm doing different, a different vibe to each stop.

• 58:51Speaker 04

  Um, and the official published date is May 5th. So if you order it today, it will be in your hands by May 5th. And it's done so well and so many people have already ordered the book that if you show up in Brooklyn at the Brooklyn Barnes and Noble on Cobble Hill, Atlantic Avenue. For that one on May 4th, you will be able to get the copy of the book early and Sunny and I will be there until the lines end. Cause it says sold out, but Sunny and I are like, come anyway, because we're gonna stay and talk to everybody and take every picture and sign every book. Then I'm so honored that people think enough of me to even read my words and show up for me this way. So even if it says sold out for that particular event in Barnes and Noble, come anyway, come anyway.

• 59:35Speaker 04

  And everywhere I'm going, I'm trying to make sure that's the one, the publisher is like, we have to do one with the big retailer. But everywhere else I'm going, I'm intentional about working with black or independent bookstores and just curating an environment. Joy wrote a book, Met Gera Murley. And so at the stop we're doing, I asked a retailer to have some of her copies and Joy's like, absolutely not. This is your book talk. It should be all about you, but that's not how we do each other. You know, we want everybody to shine. So everybody who has a book will be signing books and black people own businesses. I'm like, oh yes, come, we'll use your catering company. Or yes, we'll come. There is a woman who owns a company. She don't pay me nothing, but she is a company called Don't Be Ashy.

• 1:00:17Speaker 04

  And there's this ointment that I love. And so I was meeting Erica Alexander. Y'all know Pam from the comedy show, Maxine Shaw from Living Single. And at the Dumbo House, and she brought me a little gift bag and it was this little jar called Don't Be Ashy. And so I used it and I was not ashy like all day. I just coat my skin in it. I loved it. It smelled so good. It was like lemongrass. And so I started ordering it myself. I could only find it on Etsy and I would talk about it publicly, you know, and I don't know who this woman is, but Erica was like, oh, she's some black woman. Felling is out of Brooklyn. So she started putting notes in my order saying Tiffany, I'm such a fan. I get so thrilled every time I see her name in my order box. And the last time she sent me three extra jars of Don't Be Ashy.

• 1:01:01Speaker 04

  And she's like, please share with your friends. She knows the Mercedes, my little girlfriend group. And she's like, would love to, you know, help spread the word about this product that I make. And so I was like, I feel so bad because I'm not sharing this with anybody. I'm keeping these jars for myself. Yes, because they were like smaller and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna put one in my suitcase. Like this is mine. I'm not doing it. So I felt guilty and I was like, I should go on social media and say like, thank her and tell people if you DM me a picture of a receipt that you bought my book. I will go out and personally buy you this and mail it to you. And I told my publisher and they were like, oh, we'll just reach out to her.

• 1:01:40Speaker 04

  They reached out to her and they gave her an advanced reading copy of the book. She was so moved by the book that she created a whole fragrance. And she's naming Love Me after the book. And I was so honored. We created a few at my publisher's office and we created the scent and everything together as a body better. And I was so honored that I've invited her to come to a few of the book stops where she can display and sell the product. I was so touched, but that was our first time officially meeting. So when I say we gotta show up for each other, that's what showing up for each other looks like. Cause I want her product to be so popular that is in Norwich, come and Bloomingdale's. And I want people to go in there like, do y'all have Don't Be Ask, y'all sold out of Don't Be Ask yet?

• 1:02:24Speaker 04

  I want her to win. I want her to win. So I'm sorry, I wanted to say that.

• 1:02:28Speaker 00

  Before you sell them all out on your tour, I gotta make an order before I can not order anymore.

• 1:02:32Speaker 04

  I will bring you some, Joy. I will bring you some. I'd be honored for you to have some.

• 1:02:36Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for sending some time with us today, Tiffany. I'm so excited to see how the book does and all the conversations that we'll start.

• 1:02:44Speaker 04

  Thank you so much, Joy. And I love the space that you create here for your listeners. And I just wish you all the best and I really hope to see you again soon. And please don't make it awkward when I lay my head in your bosom and tell you all about my problems. Okay? It's just what I need to do.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  I promise. I won't. Thank you.

• 1:03:01Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:03:06Speaker 00

  I'm so happy Tiffany was able to join us for today's conversation. To learn more about Tiffany and to grab a copy of her new book, Love Me, visit the show notes at therapyforblackgirls.com/session463. And don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or suggestions for the podcast? If you have topics we should discuss, drop us a message at memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at therapyforblackgirls.com/directory. Don't forget to follow us over on Instagram at @therapyforblackgirls

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  and come on over and join us in our Patreon community for exclusive updates, behind the scenes content and much more. You can join us at community.therapyforblackgirls.com. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Denison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.

• 1:04:17Speaker 00

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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