Session 474: What Weathering Does to Black Women's Bodies

Dr. Joy sits down with neuropsychologist Dr. Tanisha Hill-Jarrett, assistant professor at UCSF's Memory and Aging Center, to talk through what brain health means, why it's broader than mental health alone, and the daily habits that support it: cardiovascular exercise, a heart-healthy diet, stress management, social connection, and quality sleep. They dig into what our phones are doing to us. Dr. Hill-Jarrett breaks down how short-form video triggers a bigger dopamine response than a typical reward, why the unpredictability of a feed keeps us scrolling, and what that means for sleep, attention span, and memory. She shares her own strategies, including separate personal and professional Instagram accounts and the Pomodoro method for resetting focus without reaching for a screen. The conversation turns to her research on Black women and Alzheimer's disease. Black Americans face 1.5 to 2 times the risk of white Americans, and Black women carry the highest projected prevalence of any group, a gap that shows up even among women who are upwardly mobile, largely tied to the neighborhoods they live in. Dr. Hill-Jarrett also unpacks weathering, the term coined by Arlene Geronimus for the accelerated biological aging that Black women experience, and points to research showing Black women's telomeres suggest they are roughly seven and a half years biologically older than white women at the same age. She closes with her current work on Afrofuturism and hopefulness, including a 10-week workshop where participants imagined a future free of time scarcity and reported feeling more hopeful about shaping what comes next. Her advice for anyone worried it's too late to protect their brain: it never is. About the Podcast The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Resources & Announcements Want to reflect on this conversation in community? Join us inside our Patreon https://community.therapyforblackgirls.com/ community where we’re unpacking this episode together. You can now catch episodes of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@therapyforblackgirls. Be sure to subscribe to get new episodes every week. Did you know you can leave us a voice note with your questions for the podcast? If you have a question you'd like some feedback on, topics you'd like to hear covered, or want to suggest movies or books for us to review, drop us a message at memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls https://memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls and let us know what’s on your mind. We just might share it on the podcast. Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals. https://www.sisterhoodheals.com/ Where to Find Our Guest Website https://tanishahilljarrett.com Instagram https://www.instagram.com/BlackWomenFutures LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanisha-hill-jarrett-ph-d-5b258aba/ Stay Connected​https://click.convertkit-mail.com/27uv20p9mpioh8edr34s8ug63w344hg/58hvh8ug08p6wzc6/dGhlcmFweWZvcmJsYWNrZ2lybHMuY29tb3JibGFja2dpcmxzLmNvbS9wYXRyZW9u Is there a topic you'd like covered on the podcast? Submit it at therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out the directory at https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/directory. Grab your copy of our guided affirmation and other TBG Merch at therapyforblackgirls.com/shop https://therapyforblackgirls.com/shop. The hashtag for the podcast is #TBGinSession. Make sure to follow us on social media: Instagram: @therapyforblackgirls https://www.instagram.com/therapyforblackgirls Facebook: @therapyforblackgirls https://www.facebook.com/therapyforblackgirls Our Production Team Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Gabrielle Collins Director of Podcast & Digital Content: Ellice Ellis Producer: Ndeye Thioubou Production Assistant: Bria Mosley See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at therapyforblackgirls.com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  Hey y'all. Thanks so much for joining me for session 474 of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. In this conversation, I'm joined by neuropsychologist Dr. Tanisha Hill-Jared for a deep dive into brain health and cognitive aging. We're exploring the neurological impact of our digital habits and discussing the everyday practices that support long-term wellness. Press play and let's get into it right after our break.

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  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 2:43Speaker 00

  We talk a lot on this show about protecting our mental health, but today we're widening the lens to something bigger: brain health. Dr. Tanisha Hill-Jared is a neuropsychologist at UCFF's Memory and Aging Center, and her research looks at why Black women carry the highest projected rates of Alzheimer's disease of any group. We get into the five habits she recommends to every patient, what our phones are doing to our sleep and our attention, and the concept of weathering, the biological toll that living under structural racism and sexism takes on the body over time. She also walks us through her work on Afrofuturism and hopefulness, and why she believes imagining the future we want is its own brain health practice. Here's our conversation.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Tanisha.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Thank you for having me. It's really nice to be here.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Thank you, thank you. So I would love for you to get us started by telling us a little bit about your background and what drew you to neuropsychology.

• 3:46Speaker 03

  Yes. So, hi, everyone. I am Dr. Tanisha Hill-Jared. I am a neuropsychologist and assistant professor at the University of California, San Francisco's Memory and Aging Center. And really, I got into neuropsychology in this interesting way. I actually didn't really know what neuropsychology was, but I knew I wanted to study psychology. And because I was always interested in human behavior, the why behind why people engage the way they do, why they act the way they do. And I also was interested in understanding the brain, which we understand drives why people engage in the behaviors that they do. And so, as an undergraduate, I actually studied psychology and neuroscience. And then

• 4:31Speaker 03

  one of my mentors later in my undergraduate degree was like, well, have you heard of neuropsychology? It's really the combination of the two of them. And so that's when I started looking into it. And I felt like neuroscience was a little too bench science for me. I wanted something that I could work with people directly. And so for me, that's where I got into neuropsychology, and I decided to pursue it in graduate school.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  And even further, you specifically focus on cognitive aging. So tell us about how you got into that as a specialty.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  Yes, that was also a little bit of a journey for me. So my graduate degree, when I was studying for graduate school, I actually focused on traumatic brain injury and focused on attention changes after traumatic brain injury. So it was a neuropsychology program, but I used cognitive neuroscience methods, so things like EEG, MRI, et cetera. And at that time, there was emerging evidence that there was this relationship between traumatic brain injury and dementia and Alzheimer's disease. And so I started looking more into that and started becoming more interested in Alzheimer's disease, aging, cognitive aging. And what I saw were that there were disparities. And so, Black Americans were

• 5:44Speaker 03

  disproportionately impacted by Alzheimer's disease. And so I decided to focus my career on understanding the why behind that.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  So when we're talking about brain health, what are we talking about specifically? And how is that different, if at all, from mental health?

• 5:57Speaker 03

  Right. So, brain health is not necessarily just the absence of disease or the lack of underlying pathology. And so the World Health Organization actually thinks about it and across a couple of different domains. So they think about it as being the combination of a person's cognitive functioning, their socio-emotional functioning, behavioral functioning, sensory functioning, as well as motor functioning. So it's quite broad. And really, when we think about mental health, mental health has kind of subsumed under brain health. So, mental health is a component of a person's brain health. And so, doing things that are good for your mental health also supports a person's brain health.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  So, we are hearing so many conversations recently around like productivity and optimization. Well, what actually matters most when we're talking about preserving our brain health? You already talked about like these several dimensions. I'm guessing it's maybe a little bit across these dimensions.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, when I see people clinically, I tell them to really focus on a couple of core things. One thing is cardiovascular exercise. So, engaging in cardiovascular exercise supports our brain vascular system and ultimately is good for brain health. And typically, what's recommended is engaging in about 150 minutes of moderate cardiovascular exercise, which sounds like a lot, 150 minutes per week. But really, if you break it down, it's really 30 minutes a day if you just do it during the weekdays, right? And what's moderate cardiovascular exercise? It's more than just walking, and it's really something that, it leaves you a little bit out of breath, but you're not like panting. So it's challenging

• 7:35Speaker 03

  for you to talk while you're engaging in that activity. So that's one thing, engaging in cardiovascular exercise. The other thing is eating a heart-healthy diet. So really, what I share is what's good for your heart is also good for your brain. And there's been research showing that the Mediterranean diet in particular is really supportive of brain health. And what the research has shown is that people that live in the Mediterranean actually have lower incidence of Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia. And so, the Mediterranean diet consists of things like fish, whole grains, berries, leafy foods, olive oil, et cetera. There's also what's called the DASH diet, and I cannot remember the exact acronym, but basically it's like an anti-hypertensive diet. So the MIND diet,

• 8:19Speaker 03

  the DASH diet. The other thing is managing stress. So, reducing things that cause stressors in our lives. And that can be by just like reducing the external stressor, but also seeking social support, engaging in spirituality or coping practices that are meaningful to you. So, that's the other thing. And then the last two things I typically recommend are social engagement. So, getting out there, talking to people, having meaningful social connections, and then sleep. So, getting really good quality sleep. And the interesting thing is, as we get older, the actual number of hours of sleep that we need reduces over time, but it's still recommended for like middle-aged adults to get around seven, seven

• 9:02Speaker 03

  solid hours of sleep. And the reason for that is while we're sleeping, our brain has what's called the glymphatic system, and it clears out these abnormalities, like these protein abnormalities and neurotoxins that develop in our brain. And so while we're sleeping, it's like washing out these bad things that can contribute to certain forms of dementia over time. So it's really important to get sleep as well. So those are like the core things that I recommend people do to preserve their brain health over time.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  Can you say more about the social engagement and how that actually impacts your brain health?

• 9:33Speaker 03

  So, social engagement, I think, gives people a sense of purpose. It gives you a sense of connectedness to people. It also, one of the things is talking to people, engaging in conversation. The one thing that we know about the brain is that challenging your brain to think in new ways is really important for neuroplasticity. So, the ability for us to form those new like brain connections, those neuronal connections. And with social engagement, it offers us the opportunity, one, to meet new people, to talk to people about things perhaps that we haven't thought about or engaged in, in these new sorts of ways. And it also gives people kind of a sense of purpose and meaning to their life

• 10:16Speaker 03

  as well. So I think all of these things combined help to support brain health.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  I really appreciate you offering that list because one of the things that I have been very curious about and as a podcast, we've been very curious about is all of the digital technology, like all of the things that really impact. It sounds like a lot of the things that you're saying we actually should be doing, right? So we know that if we're like up scrolling on our phone, we're not getting quality sleep or maybe the hours of sleep, right? But can you talk about like the impact of social media and kind of like being on our phones and so connected to devices? What impact does that have on our brain health?

• 10:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's interesting because it's a double edged sword. So like, when I think about it, it offers an opportunity for social connection. And I'm thinking during the pandemic times, right? When we were actually socially isolated, really, the only way that we had to connect to one another when we were quarantining was through social media. So things like Instagram, TikTok, etc. And I also think it offers us the opportunity to cast a wider net to reach people perhaps that I I never would have known existed, or to learn about different people and the ideas that they're sharing with the world. I know that people have reached out to me via social media because they've seen my content on social media. So I don't think it's all bad, but I also think that it can be, you know,

• 11:37Speaker 03

  if used in a way that's negligent, or if you're not mindful about your use. So when we think about sleep, the blue light, actually, there's an association between blue light and quality of sleep. And so there's evidence that's coming out showing that it reduces our melatonin production, which disrupts our REM sleep cycle. So it actually interferes with our quality of sleep. And I know sometimes like, when I wake up in the middle of the night, the first thing I do is go, I grab that phone and I start scrolling. And actually, that's not what you should be doing. So that's one thing. The other thing, I think it's interesting to think about social media from like an addiction standpoint. And really,

• 12:20Speaker 03

  what we're seeing is that this kind of short form content, what's coming out of social media, so like these very brief videos, like 30 seconds to a minute, right? That's pretty standard for TikTok or Instagram, these other platforms, creates this burst of dopamine. So dopamine is that feel good neurotransmitter that comes from the region of the brain called the ventral tegmental area. And the ventral tegmental area, so it shoots this burst of dopamine, and it actually goes to this region of the brain called the nucleus accumbens, which, when we look at addiction, those two parts of the brain are actually implicated in addictive behaviors. And what we're seeing is that

• 13:02Speaker 03

  in addiction and things like gambling, drugs, and maybe even social media, I mean, people are still investigating this, there's 10 times the burst of dopamine that you receive compared to just a typical reward that you would receive. So it's actually flooding this system. And the nucleus accumbens is really important for like motivation, desire. So this pathway that links these two brain regions is this cyclical thing that puts you in this loop of addiction. And so it's possible that with like, social media, we're constantly seeking that next video, we're constantly seeking something that satisfies us, that kind of fulfills that craving that we're looking for in this kind of short form

• 13:44Speaker 03

  content. And so I think that there's definitely an association, and people are looking at this, between social media engagement and addiction. The other thing I think that's really important to to keep in mind is, when I go back to sleep, it also impacts our memory consolidation, right? So like, if we're not sleeping well, we're actually not able to retain the things that we experienced throughout the day or learned throughout the day. So that's another piece. And then when I think about attention, I can speak for myself, getting these little bursts of things here and there, right? In the short form content, it requires you to divide your attention. I know, like, I'm scrolling while I'm like,

• 14:28Speaker 03

  looking at something on my laptop, or I'm like, listening to somebody talk, but I'm also on my phone. And I think it causes our attention span to shorten over time, and our ability to like, focus for like, these deep intensive periods has reduced. We'll see, because I think for Gen Alpha and the people that were basically like, post millennials, they grew up with social media, right? And so we'll kind of be able to compare over time what the impact of this has on people's brains and their developing brains. Yeah.

• 15:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. You know, when I hear you talk about like, the the shots of dopamine, it does make me really curious around, if you know of any like, researcher, maybe you can speak to this, the dopamine that kind of floods the system from like, a 30 second video versus like, a two hour movie. Is the dopamine distributed kind of over across time for a two hour movie versus like, a quick burst for 30 seconds? Can you talk to that at all?

• 15:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, I don't know if anybody's directly compared it, but my thought would be, so like, these quick bursts, and like, with social media in particular, the reinforcement schedule, like, if we think back to basic psychology and reinforcement, social media is considered an intermittent reinforcement schedule, to where you're getting things that are interesting to you, not consistently, right? Like, if you think about your for you page, or if you're just like, scrolling your timeline, there might be something that's interesting, there might not be something that's interesting, and then you find something that's like, super interesting. So that inconsistency is actually what contributes to the addiction, because you're not exactly sure when you're going to get that next, like,

• 16:05Speaker 03

  super flood of dopamine. So you constantly seek that. Whereas with a film, it's kind of like, this persistent thing that's happening throughout a longer duration of time. So I feel like social media, because it's like, such a short snippet, might actually be more more addictive, I would think, in terms of, like, the burst of dopamine and the schedule, like, that reinforcement schedule.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  You know, and we've been having conversations in the community about people just feeling exhausted, right? Like, it kind of feels like we all have just like, a thousand tabs open in our minds, constantly switching back and forth. So for people who are listening, who just maybe feel exhausted and feel like their brain may be begging for something else, what kinds of things would you suggest?

• 16:47Speaker 03

  I really love that Instagram now has a timer. And I've actually started experimenting with it myself. You can set a limit to how long you're on social media. And I know there's apps that allow you to do that as well, where it'll literally block you from engaging. So I think being mindful about how much time you're actually spending. And I've actually created a completely separate Instagram account, like, one is professional, one is personal. But I've found that on my professional one, it's really highly curated to things that I'm professionally interested in. And I've found that it tends to be a little bit more positive, I guess, overall. And it's not that, like, the people that I'm following

• 17:30Speaker 03

  are always negative. But I find that, like, being intentional about what I'm curating and what I'm consuming is also a piece of that to support my own mental health. And so, yeah, I definitely have two separate accounts. And it's interesting comparing across the two, what sort of content comes up. So that's, I think, another thing. And then I would also say, like, meet people in real life, you know, in 3D, get out there in the real world, and remember that there are people out there, and there's other ways of engaging beyond just social media. And I think, social media has its perks, it can be helpful. I think that that's what society has adjusted to. But I also think that, yeah, like, reading a book, like, you don't always have to read it on your Kindle, or read articles

• 18:13Speaker 03

  online, like, print stuff out, go to the park and read. So remembering that, there's like, the analog, the analog world still exists. It doesn't always have to be a digital thing. And keeping in touch with the analog world is important, too.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  Are there things specifically for people who maybe wants to retrain their attention span, right? Since we are, you know, so used to quick hits, is there a way, I mean, you just mentioned kind of like, reading book, reading things in print, are there other things you would offer for like, retraining that?

• 18:42Speaker 03

  One thing that people do, and I know that I do this when I'm writing, is called the Pomodoro method. And so it's literally setting a goal, but breaking it up into specific fragments. So like, based on the amount of time you want to work. So say, I want to work for one hour, and I'm like, okay, I'll do like, a 20 minute session, get up, take a break, reset my mind, come sit back down and start back again. Because I think that it's really challenging just to sustain your attention. And I find that when I'm trying to focus for extended periods of time without a break, I actually don't even really get that much more done. But if I would have taken that break and like, reset, that opportunity

• 19:26Speaker 03

  to kind of reset, refresh, and then sit back down, actually get more done, maybe even in a shorter period of time. That's one thing that I would recommend as well. So breaking it up, taking breaks to refocus your attention, I don't think we're meant to sustain our attention for hours and hours at a time. So having that opportunity to to divide it up is really important, too.

• 19:49Speaker 00

  So would you say, though, a key to the Pomodoro method is that your reset should not involve like, a quick scroll, right? Like, maybe it's a quick walk, or like, going outside and taking some deep breaths or something like that?

• 20:00Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Yes. We don't want to, we don't want to focus on something that like, grabs our attention and pulls us into something else. It's literally an opportunity for us to clear our minds of what we're actively working on, not to, you know, divert our attention to something else. So you're exactly right, like, taking a walk, taking some breaths, you know, engaging in mindfulness practices, all of that is really helpful. Yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  More from our conversation after the break.

• 20:33Speaker 00

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward, featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions. Each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other? Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeart Radio app,

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  Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 21:24Speaker 04

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by my friend, John Ledge. How does music actually enter your mind?

• 21:46Speaker 05

  I'm not sure why or how the music comes to me, but I think people who love music and write music, our brains are just filled with music.

• 21:55Speaker 04

  Right.

• 21:56Speaker 05

  Like, we have listened to so much music. We've been a part of so much music. I think of the story that I want to tell, the mood that I want to create with the music, start playing chords, see where they lead me.

• 22:07Speaker 04

  Sometimes I'm just not even thinking about music, right? And I hear this little thing and I go, oh, that could be this.

• 22:17Speaker 05

  You know, you just have to be ready for when the inspiration hits.

• 22:20Speaker 04

  And it comes.

• 22:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

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  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  So as you were talking about like your origin story, so to speak, and what really got you interested, especially in the cognitive aging piece, you talked about the disparities that you noticed in how African Americans, like there were higher rates of Alzheimer's. And so a lot of your research actually now looks at racism and sexism and how they intersect in cognitive aging. How do these experiences tend to show up in the brain across time?

• 22:56Speaker 03

  What I focus on is what's called cognitive aging and cognitive functioning. And so that's essentially our thinking skills. So looking at things like attention, memory, processing speed, language functioning, et cetera. And I look at it across a person's life course. And actually, what we've been seeing is that these disparities exist even in midlife. So anywhere from like 40s to 50s, even though oftentimes people are being diagnosed later in life, so in their 60s and 70s, and the like average age of a person having Alzheimer's disease is around 65, these disparities emerge pretty early on in a person's life, which leads us to believe

• 23:39Speaker 03

  that people are kind of put on this trajectory based on the structural experiences that they're subjected to throughout their life course. And so what my research has focused on is looking historically at structural racism. How do we capture those experiences? As well as structural sexism and their intersections? And how does that shape what's happening in contemporary times? So I think it's important to look at like historically, but also present day, because it's pervasive, but the way it manifests changes over time. And so that's been the focus of my work. And what we've seen is that, yes, Black Americans have about 1.5 to two times

• 24:24Speaker 03

  higher risk of developing Alzheimer's disease compared to white Americans. Latinos also experience the disparity as well. And women actually have a higher prevalence of Alzheimer's disease. And so when you look at the intersections, it's actually Black women that have the highest projected prevalence of Alzheimer's disease. And initially, I think people thought it was because women tend to live longer. And Alzheimer's disease is a disorder of aging, but it's actually above and beyond women's ability or women's longer lifespan. And it's above and beyond genetics as well. And so what research has really focused on are the like the social and structural determinants

• 25:08Speaker 03

  of Alzheimer's disease. So the environments that people are living in, aging in, working, et cetera, and how that shapes their risk and contributes to this disparity over time.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  And would have your studies and even just your thoughts led you to believe around like why Black women have the highest rates? And at the top of that list?

• 25:26Speaker 03

  So it's interesting. I think that there's been a lot of examination of the environment that people live in, their neighborhoods and that sort of thing. And Black women actually, even upwardly mobile Black women, despite their socioeconomic status, actually end up disproportionately living in neighborhoods that are considered disadvantaged. And you can look at that in relation to what the demographics are of that neighborhood. So things like education, occupational status, environmental hazards, et cetera. So looking at that surrounding neighborhood environment. So it's not just about the family socioeconomic status. It's the actual like neighborhood

• 26:10Speaker 03

  and like living conditions as well. Smoke exposure. Is there green space for people to walk around and to go to the park? Do they exist in a place where there's like a food desert, so there's not access to healthy foods, et cetera? So there's a number of kind of different intersecting things. And so despite Black women being like upwardly mobile, like having the highest rates of like bachelor's degrees and these number of things, they're disproportionately living in these environments that shape their brain health over time.

• 26:40Speaker 00

  And I'm sure you're familiar with the term weathering. We've talked about that on the podcast, but I'm sure that that has come up in your work as well. Can you talk about the impact of weathering? What that is and how you may be seeing it play out in brain health?

• 26:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, so weathering is a term coined by Arlene Geronimus that is meant to capture the accelerated biological aging that Black women experience compared to women of other racial and ethnic groups. And one of, I believe it was Arlene Geronimus's study or one of the studies looking at telomeres. So telomeres are thought to be an indicator of biological aging. Telomeres are essentially like the end caps of a chromosome. And so as we get older, your telomeres get shorter naturally. And so it's thought to be this indicator of a person's internal sort of biological age. And what looking at this link tells you is how much weathering,

• 27:36Speaker 03

  in addition to just like natural aging, a person experiences. And one of the studies found that in comparison to white women, Black women were about seven and a half years biologically older. So when matched on chronological age, Black women are about seven and a half years biologically older compared to white women. And it's thought to be due to these systems of disadvantage that causes like this wear and tear on Black women's bodies over time. I think that also has implications for cognitive aging as well. And the relationship isn't as straightforward as we thought it would be. So like looking at what predicts this accelerated aging, of course, we know it's systems of disadvantage, but how they're exactly related,

• 28:20Speaker 03

  whether socioeconomic status is also like a buffer. So having higher socioeconomic status could potentially mitigate the impact of this. So people are starting to try to tease apart the different like nuanced relationships to have a better understanding of this overall.

• 28:37Speaker 00

  You know, as you were talking, and one of my questions, and you answered it, was going to be around like, are we seeing higher rates of things like Alzheimer's in women? And when you talked about like the sleep impact on brain health, it made me think about like all the conversations we've been having around like perimenopause and menopause. And I'm thinking around like, is there a connection there? Just given kind of like the hormonal changes on the other changes that tend to impact women at that age, maybe almost right before it would be the onset of something like Alzheimer's?

• 29:06Speaker 03

  Yes, so that actually has been, I think, where the field is focusing its attention now. And interestingly, I don't know that there's really been like a comprehensive longitudinal study that's captured all of the information we would need to have to be able to address this. But what we know is that when women experience menopause, perimenopause, there's like a rapid decrease in estrogen. And estrogen has been found to be supportive of brain health. And so people are thinking that perhaps around this time, in this like rapid deterioration in estrogen and these other sorts of hormones, there may be an association with Alzheimer's disease. Researchers are designing studies

• 29:51Speaker 03

  that are allowing us to get more into women's health history so that we can like longitudinally examine these associations more clearly. Because there's other confounding factors that could potentially impact this. And so having like a really strongly designed study, I think, is really critical. And so that's really where the field, I think, is focusing its efforts as well.

• 30:13Speaker 00

  Can you talk about maybe some other blind spots that you feel like need to be addressed as it relates specifically to Black women in cognitive aging?

• 30:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think, and this is my own personal interest, I think, and this is something that I'm actively working on reframing myself. I think that Black women are often pathologized and discussed in this sort of deficits framework. And that's not to negate the fact that disparities are a real thing and like Black women are disproportionately impacted by it. But Black women also exist in this way that's very healthy. They live long, healthy, full lives. And I think understanding what allows us to live well is also just as important as explaining what's not allowing us to live well. For me, I've been focusing on hopefulness,

• 31:05Speaker 03

  how hopefulness might shape brain health. I've been thinking through Afrofuturism and what it means for Black women to shape the future that they want, what that looks like, and civic engagement. So how that shapes brain health. So I think there are other things to be focused on. Like, we understand that the disparity exists. I think it's important to understand why, but I also think it's equally important to think about how to intervene. And Black women have the answers to that because we have Black women that are doing well, right? So understanding that through a Black woman's lens, I think, is really important. And that's also been a focus of my work.

• 31:45Speaker 00

  So we know that if we aren't necessarily in the room to ask these questions, then other people are not necessarily thinking about this, right? You are bringing your own particular lens, your family lens, your cultural lens to the work that you're doing. Can you talk about kind of just the state of like your field and like, do you feel like there is more need for diversity for people to come at these questions from lots of different angles?

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Absolutely. I think there needs to be more diversity in the field. I think there needs to be more Black women in the field. And I think there needs to be more community engaged work and community-based participatory research. When I think about academia and even my experiences as a graduate student, it feels very siloed and very disconnected from what's actually happening in the real world. And a lot of the times when you're first learning, you're just reading about these statistics and information in a book. You have no concrete hands-on, unless maybe you have a family member or someone that's directly impacted by the thing that you're studying. It feels very distant from like the actual issue at hand.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  And I think the best way for people to learn about an issue is to talk to the people that are directly impacted by it and to allow them to lead what the questions are from a research standpoint and to be involved in the research. And so with some of the community-based research that I'm doing, that's exactly what's happening. It's like, it's a collaboration where they're actually a part of the process as well in guiding what the questions are. And yes, researchers have expertise in the actual research methodology, but I think the people with the lived experiences bring the questions and they also can shape the research methodology as well. So I think that's really where the, the field should be going and not being so like siloed and hierarchical.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  And the other thing, it's really kind of wild. It's like you get these results, you publish them in this journal that nobody ever reads unless you're an academic and like very specifically interested in this topic. And the people that are impacted by it never have access to. It's like behind a paywall or whatever. So I think also thinking about ways to translate the work. First of all, the community should own the results. So like, let's start there. But also thinking about important ways to translate the research in a way that's tangible for the, for a layperson to understand so that they actually can do something with the information is really important. And I think where the field should go as well.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  More from our conversation after the break.

• 34:30Speaker 00

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other? Tune in to find out.

• 35:13Speaker 00

  Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 35:20Speaker 04

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by my friend, John Ledge. What still makes you just sit down at the piano?

• 35:43Speaker 05

  If you sat down at 9:00 AM and then at noon, you had a full song that you recorded and put in your voice recorder or you recorded at your studio, you just created something brand new that didn't exist when you woke up. What a beautiful feeling it is. I'm always excited to write something new. I've been writing for Broadway, which has been a new challenge with new collaborators and amazing performers who are triple threats, who can sing and dance and act and do all these amazing things. And I want to keep feeling that. And so that means not resting on my laurels, going out there and continuing to create something new.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  So I can imagine that there's a young sister somewhere who's going to hear you, Dr. Tanisha, on the podcast and say, oh, my gosh, I want to do what she does, right? And just like you talked about, kind of stumbling into your field, what advice would you give to someone who maybe hears this and thinks like, oh, I want to study something like that? Like, how do I shape my career like that? What advice would you have?

• 36:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think really finding mentors, finding mentors that are doing something, it doesn't have to be the exact thing that you want to do, but doing something that's in the ballpark of what you want to do. And I think diversifying the mentors that you have. So like, maybe the person that helps you with like the research question isn't always the person that's going to help you with what community engagement looks like, isn't going to be the person, maybe if you want to do more clinical work, that isn't going to be the person that informs you about clinical. So having people that can shape these different facets of who you are, who you're hoping to become. And then, yeah, combining and taking, people don't always give you advice that's helpful.

• 37:37Speaker 03

  So taking what you think is meaningful to you and then leaving the rest, rest behind. And I think doing it in that way. I also think it's important for people to get life experience. I know there's like this pressure to just jump straight into graduate school, jump straight into your career. One of the things, going back to social media, we see people's highlight reels and it looks like they're constantly like climbing this ladder of success, whatever that means, right? But I think it's really important to take the time to know who you are, know what you actually care about. And that only comes through time and through experience and sometimes through trial and error. For me, it was a little bit of a windy path and I didn't go into all the details of the

• 38:22Speaker 03

  story, but it took me doing sometimes things I didn't want to do to realize like, I actually don't this, or this doesn't have a lot of meaning to me. And so I don't think that I can do this for the rest of my life. And so it took me having those experiences to realize, okay, well, this is what I want to do. It's like a refinement process over time. And so that's another thing that I would recommend as well.

• 38:47Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for that. So you started offering us lots of great tips around, you know, things that we could do to kind of really take care of our brain health. Are there small kind of daily habits or things that you would suggest for people to kind of slow down any cognitive aging?

• 39:02Speaker 03

  Well, the one thing I will say is that we're all cognitively aging, but I think the thing to, like preventative practices or like daily preventative practices, trying to take walks, just walking, I think is helpful. Trying to do a brisk walk, right? So thinking about the cardiovascular piece of it. I think with the phone, putting your phone on do not disturb after a certain time, right? And really, I don't know, I've been trying to develop specific like rituals around bedtime so that it feels like I can calm my mind down and I'm not feeling the need to like look at my phone. It helps me to transition to sleep a little bit more easily.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  And it also, again, I'm not experiencing that blue light that like impacts the quality of my sleep over time. I also have been trying to be more just like mindful of my diet, grocery shopping and like planning, meal prepping, those sorts of things, I think all can support brain health as well. Yeah. So this is like mindfully navigating throughout the day.

• 40:09Speaker 00

  Some of the things that I hear often, and you didn't mention, but you did mention like forming new, what did you call like new neural pathways can do, is helpful for brain health. So like puzzles and like using like hobbies with your hands or those kinds of things also things we should be looking at?

• 40:24Speaker 03

  Yes. So that's the other thing. So neuroplasticity is supported by novelty. And so for instance, if you're doing this crossword puzzles every day, your brain kind of is already acclimated to that. So it's really about trying new things. And that's actually something that I've been doing too. Like recently I started learning how to sew. I've always had an interest in sewing, so I started taking sewing classes and it actually has challenged, like it's challenged my brain, it's challenged my visual spatial skills, like reading a pattern and translating it to actual fabric and material has been a challenge, but a good one for my brain. So it's about doing things that are new, that maybe you're a little bit outside of

• 41:07Speaker 03

  your box, that stretches your brain to form those new connections and to think in different ways. So developing new hobbies is also really important.

• 41:16Speaker 00

  Dr. Tanisha, is there anything that you would add to our conversation around like digital world and technology that you haven't said because of AI, right? Like, is there any things that kind of keep in mind around like brain health and cognitive aging as it relates to interacting with AI, since it feels like it's everywhere now?

• 41:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's everywhere. I think. It's almost like it's replacing, I won't say it's entirely replacing us, but I think it's, you could write an entire essay using AI without having to think, right? And if we just go back to what I shared about building those new connections, thinking about things in new ways, you kind of eliminate that opportunity by using AI. So where there are moments, I think where AI is a little bit of a shortcut and it might help like our efficiency throughout the day, I also think we should be using it mindfully and thinking about ways that it actually may be interfering with our ability to support our brain health too. So it's really, I think it's nuanced. I think there's a balance that we need to strike.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  And then there's a lot to talk about AI being biased against certain communities. So I think it's a little bit of a like wild frontier and it's moving so quickly that, yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot that we could talk about with that.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned the term Afrofuturism. And we talked about that a little bit on the podcast, but definitely not a conversation that combines Afrofuturism and things like neuroscience and brain health. Can you talk more about like how Afrofuturism impacts your work and informs your work?

• 42:51Speaker 03

  Yes. So as a person who studies structural racism and sexism, I really want to center Black women's visions for the future and what it means to be in a future where that's no longer a factor, where Black women feel safe, where they feel protected and are a part of building that future. And so that's really what my entry point into Afrofuturism was. But so I use it in a lot of the community engaged work that I do. So providing education to elders in the community about what Afrofuturism is, how they are Afrofuturists, how they come from a lineage of Afrofuturists, by nature of just like them making it to the next day, you're an Afrofuturist, like, right?

• 43:36Speaker 03

  You've designed a strategy to make it and to survive into today's society. So that's one thing. And then I also have been thinking about it in relation to supporting brain health. And actually what I found, so it's, it's preliminary results, but I did a 10-week workshop with Black women called Radical Imagination, A Dream Space for Black Women, where they used these Afrofuturistic practices. They learned about what Afrofuturism was. They created art around Afrofuturism. And what we actually explored was the concept of time scarcity. So how Black women's time is disproportionately monopolized to where they don't have time to care for themselves, for their wellbeing, and how that's related to health.

• 44:21Speaker 03

  And so in this Afrofuturistic framework, we actually asked, okay, what if time scarcity wasn't a thing? What if you had unlimited time? Like, what would you do with that? How would you support yourself? How would you support society? So it was really like this future sort of visioning exercise that had the participants thinking about what it would mean to exist in this kind of alternate potential future. And what I found at the, the end of the 10-week series was that the people that participated actually reported higher levels of hopefulness, one, and then hopefulness about their ability to shape the future. And so I think there's research out there that shows being hopeful

• 45:03Speaker 03

  is supportive, obviously of mental health, but also of brain health. And so I think having sort of this Afrofuturistic framework, engaging with elders around what Afrofuturism is, one, shapes hopefulness. But I also think it's a way of getting them to think about how they can be involved in creating the future that they want. So it's not just like a mind exercise or like a thought exercise. It's actually like, what are the, the practical strategies that we can use to build the future that we want? And ideally, it's something that like motivates them to act on it as well. So that's one thing. And then Afrofuturism intersects with our imagination, right? Our ability to think about things. And there's a whole body of research

• 45:48Speaker 03

  that shows that simply imagining something, so like imagining me moving my hand or imagining me reaching out to grab the cup that's sitting beside me, activates the same areas of the brain that would be activated if I actually went and engaged in that action. So the simple act of imagination activates those pathways as well. So I think that there's these really interesting and potentially like unexplored areas that are showing relationships between like the simple act of just believing, having hope, imagining, and our actual brain activity and potentially brain health. So that's something I'm interested in. So I'm interested in it from like a community engaged standpoint,

• 46:32Speaker 03

  but I'm also interested in like the neuropsychology, the neuroscience of it, and how it shapes long-term brain health.

• 46:39Speaker 00

  I love that. That sounds very promising. Now, is the plan to maybe run another 10-week group and then write this up? Or how are you thinking of expanding this work?

• 46:47Speaker 03

  So I wrote up the preliminary results in a paper. So I have like a, a model of how all of these things that I just shared are connected, but I'm also wanting to, so move it from like model to actual action. So like the actual implementation. So if, you know, working with this group of seniors in the community, what's something that we want to change about our neighborhood, right? And if there's something we want to change about our neighborhood, how can we apply this like concept of Afrofuturism, this framework, this hopefulness to make that change? So I want to move from like, let's talk about it to like, actually, how can we intervene to shape the, the future that we want? And so for me, that's really the next step.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  And then another next step would be how, over time, does this impact a person's brain health? So there's the like civic engagement, the community engagement piece, but there's also the, like, how is this supporting beyond your subjective experience of it, which is important, it's definitely an important piece, but how is it supporting your cognitive functioning as well as like your physical brain health?

• 47:53Speaker 00

  Okay. So we will stay tuned for more details about you publishing this model. Thank you for sharing that. So if there was one thing that listeners from this conversation could take away about how to take care of their brains long-term, what would it be?

• 48:06Speaker 03

  The one thing I would say is stay connected, stay moving, and stay mindful. Those are like the three things that I would say. So stay connected to people in person. If you have to, okay, online is fine as well, but ideally in person, stay moving. So getting your exercise in, and then stay mindful. Stay mindful of what you're consuming, stay mindful of what you're eating, stay mindful of the sleep habits, et cetera. Yeah, those are the three main things.

• 48:36Speaker 00

  So if there's somebody who's listening and they feel like, oh, I think I'm too far gone, like I've done irreparable damage to my brain because of the digital stimulation, what would you say to them?

• 48:46Speaker 03

  It's never too late. It's never, ever too late. You can engage in your brain health journey at any point in time. And the fact that you're still here is a testament to that. So you're, yeah, there's never a wrong time to start. And so I encourage, if people are really interested in supporting their brain health, do it now. Yeah, it's never too late.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  And where can we stay connected with you, Dr. Tanisha? Is there a website that you'd like to share and any social media channels?

• 49:13Speaker 03

  Sure. You can find some of the work and some of the writings that I've published at my website, tanishahilljarrett.com. And then you can also find me on Instagram at Black Women Futures. And then you can find me on LinkedIn at Tanisha Hill Jarrett.

• 49:32Speaker 00

  Perfect. We'll be sure to include all of that in our show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I appreciate it.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  Thank you, Dr. Joy. It's been a pleasure.

• 49:40Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  I'm so glad Dr. Hill Jarrett was able to join me for this conversation. To learn more about her and her work, be sure to visit the show notes at therapyforblackgirls.com/session474. And don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions and suggestions for the podcast? Drop us a message at memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at therapyforblackgirls.com/directory. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at @therapyforblackgirl or come on over and join us in our Patreon for exclusive updates,

• 50:27Speaker 00

  behind the scenes content, and much more. Can't wait to see you inside. You can join us at community.therapyforblackgirls.com. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inday Chubu, and Bria Mosley. Editing was done by Denison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.

• 50:54Speaker 00

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 51:24Speaker 06

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