I Have Some Thoughts Minisode | Chadwick Boseman, Malcolm Jamal Warner, Ryan Clark, & Gen Z Financial Struggles

Welcome back to our minisode series, "I Have Some Thoughts." These short episodes are designed to contextualize the pop culture moments we're currently paying attention to through a mental health lens. Pop culture isn't just fun to chat about, it can reveal important information about how we relate, cope, and understand ourselves. Join us each Friday to hear Dr. Joy share her thoughts about the happenings of the week. This week, we're chatting about Chadwick Boseman and Malcolm Jamal Warner's family disputes over their estates, Ryan Clark's departure from ESPN, and Gen Z's difficulty asking to be paid back. Stay Connected​https://click.convertkit-mail.com/27uv20p9mpioh8edr34s8ug63w344hg/58hvh8ug08p6wzc6/dGhlcmFweWZvcmJsYWNrZ2lybHMuY29tb3JibGFja2dpcmxzLmNvbS9wYXRyZW9u Wanna chat more about the pop culture hot topics of the week? Join us inside our Patreon https://community.therapyforblackgirls.com/ community. Is there a topic you'd like covered on the podcast? Submit it at therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out the directory at https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/directory. Make sure to follow us on social media: Instagram: @therapyforblackgirls https://www.instagram.com/therapyforblackgirls Threads: @therapyforblackgirls https://www.threads.com/therapyforblackgirls Our Production Team Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Gabrielle Collins Director of Podcast & Digital Content: Ellice Ellis Producer: Ndeye Thioubou Production Assistant: Bria Mosley See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 1:24Speaker 01

  Hey, y'all. Welcome back to I Have Some Thoughts, our weekly mini-soaps series where we are covering all things pop culture, but of course, from a mental health lens. And I am joined today again by Elise. Hey, Elise.

• 1:36Speaker 03

  Hey, Dr. Joy. How are you?

• 1:38Speaker 01

  I'm good. How are you?

• 1:39Speaker 03

  I'm doing well. I am super excited because the Black Panther casting was announced this week for Black Panther 3. And although the movie is coming out in 2028, I'm just, I'm ecstatic.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Yes, agreed, agreed. I have been very excited. I didn't know that they were necessarily planning on continuing the Black Panther story, but I'm very excited that this is the way we're going. I feel like this is the best way forward, right? Like that still honors who Chadwick was for the character, but also continuing to move the storyline forward.

• 2:13Speaker 03

  Exactly. I also love David Johnson. He was one of the main characters in the first season and second season of Industry, which is one of my favorite TV shows. He also was in the rom-com Ryan Lane and was fabulous in that. So it's very different to see him in this like action movie, a part of this huge franchise, but I do think the casting is excellent. So I'm very excited about that.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Me too. Agreed.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  Okay, so let's get into our first topic today. Recent legal disputes involving the estates of Chadwick Boseman and Malcolm Jamal Warner have put a spotlight on the complicated realities families can face after the loss of a loved one. Last week, Malcolm Jamal Warner's widow filed a lawsuit against his mother claiming she hadn't been paid the 1.2 million owed to her as part of the prenup she signed. A few days after, Chadwick Boseman's brother filed to sue Chadwick's widow claiming that she failed to properly distribute Chadwick's remaining assets. In Chadwick's case specifically, he didn't have a will in place at the time of his passing. While the cases involve different legal circumstances,

• 3:26Speaker 03

  they've definitely sparked a broader conversation about how grief can become intertwined with conflict over money, decision-making, and how to honor a loved one's memory. And I've been thinking about how can having difficult conversations now become one final act of love for the people we care about? And I know we actually have an episode about this. So session 393 is about estate planning and about what to do with your assets and how to plan for the future when you are gone. But my question for you, Dr. Joy, is what emotional barriers can keep families from planning for a crisis with wills, with estate planning, or with end-of-life wishes?

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I'm glad you brought up this session because that's definitely what I thought about. The conversation I had with Attorney Griffin just about all of the ways that sometimes we are negligent in making sure that we are preparing ourselves to leave this place, right? And preparing our families. And I do think it is one last act of love to kind of make sure that your affairs are in order. But as we talked about in that episode, it can be really difficult for lots of different reasons. I think the main one, though, is that we just don't do well with these kinds of conversations, right? Like death, end-of-life kinds of things. Nobody wants to talk about that. And of course, it's very difficult. You know, you don't want to even think about what happens to your kids and your loved ones after you're gone.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  But it is a natural part of life, right? Like that is one thing we can all be certain of is that we will leave at some point. And I think it is just so difficult to have these conversations that it often feels much easier to just avoid it and not think about, because of course, you won't be there, right? And so I think we don't always think about like the consequences like we're seeing in these cases that can happen if things are not in order. I also think that just historically, finances and estates and all of those things are really difficult to talk about with families. It often introduces different kinds of power dynamics. Do you get into comparison kinds of things? You know, there may even be some paranoia involved in, you know, like kind of disclosing maybe how much you have.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  And so I think that there are those kinds of things that make these kinds of conversations difficult as well. But it is necessary. It is a necessary part of kind of family planning and thinking about what happens in life for your loved ones after you're no longer here.

• 5:49Speaker 03

  Thank you for that. I think something you said that really resonated with me is that like, it is easier to just avoid talking about it. Like it is weird whether you're talking to your parents and saying like, hey, you guys aren't going to be here one day. Or you're talking about yourself like, I'm not going to be here one day. What are the words that you maybe have told yourself, your family members, your kids about death that doesn't fear monger them, but helps them accept that this is the natural part of life?

• 6:19Speaker 01

  I am guilty of this myself, right? Like my husband and I have been dragging our feet in doing this, but it is on like the top of our to-do list. Like I already have the lawyer picked out and everything because it is important, right? But it feels so uncomfortable to think about like my baby's being here without me, right? And like, what does that do to them? Like it, you do get, at least for myself, like I get caught in the sadness and the trauma of it all, right? Like just thinking about it, but also wanting them to be okay. And there are things that I want them to have for their lives regardless of whether I'm here or not. And I know that that is an important part of those things happening. And also, I think when we do see public cases like this, it also is a very sobering reminder to us that are still here that, hey,

• 7:02Speaker 01

  this is an unfortunate kind of thing that can happen if the proper paperwork is not put into place. Right now, unfortunately, sometimes we see even when there is a will, there can be contesting and, you know, like there is also still family fallout sometimes. But I think you are, you put yourself and your family in a far better place to be able to kind of navigate those difficult kinds of things when you do have things put in place. And I think we see some of this fallout after somebody has passed because it is a grief reaction, right? So you, maybe it feels less comfortable to say like, I'm angry at this person for passing, but instead I'm going to like act out with my brother and fight over family assets

• 7:43Speaker 01

  because that feels more comfortable, even if it is still like a difficult situation. Sometimes those kinds of things are easier to express than I feel really sad and heartbroken that mom or dad is gone.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  Okay, moving right along. Last week, ESPN analyst Ryan Clark was abruptly let go during a commercial break after 12 years at ESPN. He spoke out about the situation on an episode of the Pivot Podcast and became really emotional as he shared the pressure he felt to tone himself down to match what media executives wanted from him. Clark shared that he knew he couldn't be too black. Despite trying to adjust, he was still fired. And he often wondered whether things would have turned out differently had he made himself more palatable. Now, many don't agree that is why he was let go, but it does open a broader conversation on navigating corporate spaces while black and showing up authentically at work.

• 8:41Speaker 03

  Talk to me about how code switching and this self-monitoring can maybe have a toll on someone over time.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, work is difficult just because it's work, right? Like even if you love what you do, it's work, right? Like it is a sometimes grueling part of our like lived experience. And so I think when you lay on top of that, this pressure to code switch and like to feel like you need to adjust and morph who you are to fit into this place where you spend so many hours, it is taxing, I think, both physically and mentally. And I think people who are not people of color, Black people specifically, don't always understand like the additional burden that it is to not just come to work, but to also feel like you have to put on a certain mask or armor to just be in these spaces.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  And I think, you know, unfortunately, what we see from this, this very public example is that you can do all of the contorting and code switching and, you know, managing and massaging your image and your words, and it's still not be enough, right? It just does not matter. And if you find yourself in spaces where you are feeling that pressure, the sad truth is that it does not matter sometimes, right? Like people will have their view and their perspective of who you are, and no amount of you contorting yourself will matter because they've already developed the story they want to tell about who you are. And so I think it is a reminder for us that sometimes we can do all of that stuff and it not be enough.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  And so again, I understand we got to keep the lights on, like we have responsibilities. And so unfortunately, we will sometimes find ourselves in corporate spaces where we have to do some of this kind of playing the game. But I think it's important to know that it is like a role that you're playing and not let that become like your identity and not do so much kind of playing the game and contorting yourself that you don't even recognize who you are outside of the office.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  How does someone begin to, I don't want to say like draw harder boundaries, but start to take so much kind of personal stake out of the person who they are when they show up at work, even if it is the work they enjoy? Because I could go to happy hour after work, you can be a part of an ERG, you can, you know, do fun volunteer things on the weekend, but still feel like I am performing the self and not being me. How does one start to kind of draw those lines and make that separation?

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm really glad that you asked that because I think all of the things that you've named are really important, right? Like making sure that your life feels full outside of the office is one way to kind of add a barrier there, add a bit of a buffer to, okay, I gotta go do these things, but these are the things that actually make my life, right? Like my life is not entirely made up of work. These are the things that really help me to feel restored and fulfilled. So I do think that that is an important piece of this is making sure that your life outside of the workspace feels very fulfilling. But I also think you have to think about like, what kinds of things feel okay for you to kind of maybe bend on and what kinds of things do not, right? Because at the end of the day, you have to go home with yourself and to yourself.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  And so there are some things that may just feel like completely not non-negotiable to you, right? So, you know, when you are calling into question your integrity, your values, like the kinds of things that are really important to you, those things I think are not things that you want to kind of put a performance on, right? But if it is like, oh, I'm somebody who's really private and I don't really want to socialize in the break room during lunch, right? Could you do a little bending there, right? Because we know a lot of times black people will get this, this comment on their performance reports that they seem aloof or they're not a real team player, right? And so sometimes you can get around some of that by just offering up things that aren't really important to you, right? So I will typically tell people to have one or two kinds of things that you talk about

• 12:37Speaker 01

  with people at work that really don't matter to you, right? So maybe that is like the kinds of TV shows that you're watching or the sports that you're involved in or the sports that your kids play or, you know, like things that feel important and can connect you to other people, but they are not like central to who you are. So sometimes volunteering those kinds of things, you know, can make it seem like you're more of a team player than maybe, you're still not sharing anything really private about you, but you are kind of playing the game. And so looking at those kinds of things that aren't really central to your identity as places to negotiate, I think is a place where you can look at how you can draw some boundaries there.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  I love that. I love that. Sometimes you do have to fake it till you make it.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Exactly. More from our conversation after the break. A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward?

• 14:02Speaker 01

  How do we best show up for each other? Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 14:13Speaker 04

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by Miguel.

• 14:31Speaker 05

  My small experience with the discrepancy in the business of music made me angry in the best way and I wanted to, I wanted to finish. So I started really like leaning into my therapy, trying to get down to like what matters now. Somewhere, Miguelito felt like he didn't have a place to say how he felt and music was the place that I went to, to say how I felt.

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  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  Okay, so last one is, you know, I'm being a little bit of a generation traitor, but Gen Z is going broke because they're afraid to ask their friends to pay them back. A new report from Zelle found that many Gen Z adults are going into debt, not because of what they're spending on themselves, but because they're covering expenses for friends and family and struggling to ask for the money back. Whether it's concert tickets, vacations, dinners, or group outings, 76% of Gen Z respondents say that they fronted the cost and weren't fully reimbursed. Nearly half reported falling into debt as a result, with many saying they avoid bringing

• 15:46Speaker 03

  it up because money conversations feel too awkward or uncomfortable. And the trend has been given a name of payment avoidance. Why is asking for what we're owed so uncomfortable, specifically financially?

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it kind of feels related in some ways to our first topic, right? Talking about like estate planning, but on a very different level. I think what we are often seeing with Gen Z and, you know, even people younger is that there is a lot of anxiety around certain kinds of conversations. Some of that I feel like is developmental, but some of that I worry is becoming a more consistent kind of pattern that we really do want to get a handle on, right? And so what we're talking about is assertiveness, right? Like the ability to assert your needs and trust that people can take your needs seriously and that you can get your needs met, right? And so often we are worried that, you know, you'll get some kind of like nasty reaction or that people will, you know, maybe be judgmental because you ask a certain question.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  But the truth is, if, if there's an understanding that I'm like paying for this upfront and then everybody's gonna pay me back, then that should be the expectation in the group, right? And so you asking for the expectations to be met that we've all kind of shared, I think is okay. Now, I do think you have to be careful not being the one to kind of volunteer your card or like volunteer to kind of upfront money, especially if there has been a history of people not paying you back. But if there is an expectation that you will be paid back, then I think it is something that is a muscle that you have to flex, that you have to practice, just like any other skill we learn is, this feels a little awkward to ask, but you know, you didn't pay me back for the Beyonce tickets, like, when can I get my money?

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Now, I have also seen though, and you have to have a lot of trust in the group to do this, I have also seen groups kind of have a shared account for things like this, right? So like maybe you have a shared checking account that like the friend group uses when y'all go out to eat or when you're ready for concert tickets, so that it's almost like you are already kind of front-loading the money and then maybe the most responsible person in the group, you know, kind of is the one that has a card, but you all have access. That could be another way to kind of get at some of this without maybe some of the difficult conversations. But I do think, again, navigating difficult conversations are just a part of us being human and being adults. And so the sooner that you can practice having what could be an awkward conversation, the

• 18:16Speaker 01

  better off you will be.

• 18:18Speaker 03

  Do you think there is some type of correlation between like intimacy and the ability to have financial conversations? Like what does it cost us when we avoid those even outside of just our wallets?

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I, I think that the financial conversation piece is just like emblematic of the other part of the relationship, because if it's difficult to talk about finances, what else are you avoiding talking about, right? So I think this is just like one small part, you know, like, are you also comfortable talking about like maybe even bigger issues that also really establish intimacy in a relationship, right? And I think navigating difficult conversations actually deepens intimacy in relationships because you realize that maybe we can have a little bit of disagreement or maybe I can bring up something awkward to you and then we're okay, right? And so I think when we avoid difficult conversations, we also really take away our ability to strengthen

• 19:16Speaker 01

  that muscle because we don't realize, hey, I can do this difficult thing and I'm still okay and the relationship even got stronger. Now we can bring up even more difficult things between one another. And so I do think it can be an example of like intimacy being difficult because you're afraid of the response, right? Like you're afraid that people will judge you or maybe see you differently because you asked this difficult thing, when the truth is that in strong relationships, you can ask difficult awkward things and the relationship continues and it doesn't mean people have like a soured attitude about who you are.

• 19:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, thank you for that. I think that's a perfect piece of advice or note to end on, like have a difficult conversation today.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Yes, what's that thing that you have been avoiding? Let's get some practice in making, having those difficult conversations. Well, thanks, Elise. Those were great topics. Always excited to hear what we're going to be chatting about every week. And if there are things happening in your circles that you want us to weigh in on, please share those topics with us. You can do that at therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox. And until next time, take good care of yourself.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  Bye, y'all.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 23:05Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.