Pod Insights Therapy for Black Girls I Have Some Thoughts Minisode | 10 years of Insecure, Drake & The White House, James Charles, Cheyenne Bryant About this episode Welcome to our new minisode series, "I Have Some Thoughts." These short episodes are designed to contextualize the pop culture moments we're currently paying attention to through a mental health lens. Pop culture isn't just fun to chat about, it can reveal important information about how we relate, cope, and understand ourselves. Join us each Friday to hear Dr. Joy share her thoughts about the happenings of the week.
This week, we're chatting about the 10 year anniversary of Insecure, the White House using Drake's Iceman cover art, James Charles' lack of empathy, and the need for credentials as a mental health professional.
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Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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2:20 Speaker 01 Hey y'all, we are back with another I Have Some Thoughts mini-sode, where we are talking about some of the pop culture things that you may be talking about, paying attention to, but from a mental health lens. And I am here this week with Elise, who many of you have heard on the podcast before. She is our Director of Podcasting and Digital Content. Hey, Elise.
2:39 Speaker 06 Hey, Dr. Joy. I'm so excited for this week's rundown. We have a lot to talk about.
2:45 Speaker 01 All right, where do we start?
2:46 Speaker 06 So I'm gonna kick it off with a topic that is very near and dear to me. This year, we are celebrating 10 years of Insecure. And woo, am I excited. Insecure came out, I was a freshman in college. I think I had recently moved into, it wasn't even my first month. So I have a lot of kind of formative memories tied to Insecure. And so now that we're 10 years after the show's premiere, Issa Rae and Prentice Penny, who's Insecure's showrunner, have launched the rewatch podcast Block Party. So, you know, the Block CC, where they'll be discussing behind the scenes anecdotes and spilling on what it took to bring the show to life. We talked about the show on this podcast.
3:30 Speaker 06 It was definitely still going on when I first joined. And from like through conversations with you, conversations with our audience, we know that the show has connected with so many Black women in so many aspects of life. It sparked many conversations about dating, career, and family life. And so much of what the show discussed just seemed to resonate with people, I think more than a lot of shows have over the past couple of years. I want to start with, where were you when you first saw Insecure?
4:01 Speaker 01 Ooh, 2016. So I was the mom of a three-year-old and a newborn, probably. So I was deep in the trenches of figuring out my life with kids. And I don't remember exactly what month it premiered. And I don't remember exactly where I was when I saw the premiere, but I do remember being very excited about it. It was something that had like a lot of like promo and like it seemed like just a really, really good. Show that talked about like a lot of the topics that were of interest to me and like the team and the community and one that we hadn't like seen in a while.
4:32 Speaker 06 Why do you think the show struck a note with so many people? Both when you think about like a greater community of Black women and Black people, but also I think internally for our team where, you know, I think we sit at the intersection of mental health and entertainment.
4:46 Speaker 01 Hmm. So one, like I said, I think it was the kind of show that we hadn't seen in a while. Like to me, Insecure is in the lineage of like a Living Single, Girlfriends, just regular Black people living their lives kind of thing. And I think we were all very like hungry and thirsty for that kind of content. And, you know, many of us were also fans of Awkward Black Girl on YouTube. And so I think we were fascinated and just captivated by Issa's hilarious like timing and like just, you know, the stories that she was bringing forth. And so I think we were very excited to see this as the next step in her career. And I don't think it disappointed. But I do think there were so many topics and conversations
5:27 Speaker 01 and life experiences that were introduced by Insecure that really just resonated with people. And we really kind of saw ourselves in our life experiences on screen.
5:36 Speaker 06 I don't know if you've rewatched it recently, or if you've thought about any of the themes, but do you think the show will still hit the same way 10 years later?
5:47 Speaker 01 Oh, absolutely. So just like Living Single episodes still hit for me, however many years later that has been, I think Insecure will have that same kind of staying power. Insecure tends to be one of my, if I'm like traveling for work or something like that and there's like nothing on, it will be the thing that I will put on in the background. So I haven't done like an intentional kind of rewatch, but it is a comfort show for me for sure. But I do think I revisit the content just kind of generally in my thinking, like in the things that we talk about on the podcast and the kinds of things that we share on social media. I feel like just recently, there was an episode I did kind of after the show ended where Issa had talked about what would it look like if you actually
6:30 Speaker 01 went after the things you wanted in your life? And I did, I think, a whole solo episode on. And I think I just talked about it on my Thresh channel recently as well. So I think I revisit the content in those ways, even though I may not be sitting down to do a full rewatch. But I have seen lots of people talk about doing rewatches. So I think it was brilliant that they are doing a rewatch podcast. Because 10 years feels like a good, okay, let's kind of talk about what was going on and hear some of the stuff that y'all didn't know. So I think that that will just also encourage people to rewatch as well. So I'm very excited to check out the podcast and maybe even do a rewatch now that we are getting more behind the scenes content. Have you revisited?
7:07 Speaker 06 I definitely revisit it often. I think there are just so many singular episodes that are just great episodes of television. Living here in LA, I also just love to see LA pictured in that way, but also think about like the Easter eggs of places that I've visited, that I haven't visited, that are no longer here. And I think it's very nostalgic in that way. I do have one more question, so I'm going a little bit off script. You might not be able to give us a yes or no answer, but do you think Molly was a good friend?
7:41 Speaker 06 You know, I'm missing.
7:41 Speaker 01 Not a conversation from left field. Oh gosh, I don't know that Molly was a bad friend. I think that there were some very complicated dynamics in the relationship between Molly and Issa, which is why that last season was so like powerful and like really ran up the numbers, right? I can't think of any other content on screen where we saw like a friendship breakup and those dynamics play out. I think there was just a lot of messiness to Molly, right? But I think she was human and I think that that is what really translated for people that you either were very mad at Molly because of, oh, she's not a good friend.
8:19 Speaker 01 Or you resonated with maybe some parts of yourself that you were not proud to admit that you then saw in Molly and realized like, oh, this may be something I need to work on for myself. So I don't know that she was a bad friend, but I do think that there were some complicated dynamics for sure.
8:32 Speaker 06 I'm very curious as we're. Approaching the 10 year anniversary, like specifically, I think it is in September or something like that, but it does seem like in Zygai, so when I read Essence or The Cut, there are a lot of conversations being had about female friendships. And so I'm curious through an editorial lens, how people, writers, critics will explore that. Because I think we're hearing a lot about like, friends falling out, or like, you know, it may not even be worth it to call out somebody's behavior. It's kind of hard for people to change. And there are a lot of different opinions, but I think that a lot of them can be explored through Issa and Molly's relationship.
9:11 Speaker 01 Absolutely, completely agree. I mean, I wrote about it in Sisterhood Heel. So it is, there are no shortage of amounts of content and like, topics to discuss from what we got from Molly and Issa.
9:21 Speaker 06 Absolutely. So moving right along, over the weekend, Drake released not one, not two, but three albums. So Iceman, Habiti, and Maid of Honor. The White House faced backlash after posting an edited version of Drake's Iceman album artwork with MAGA imagery attached to it. Many people online criticized the administration for turning political messaging into meme content and using pop culture aesthetics to soften or market like a serious issue. And I think the, you know, one of the core tensions here is what happens when serious issues are packaged as memes. And so my question for you is how does turning politics and like
10:02 Speaker 06 heavy, serious political topics into internet humor, impact people's emotional connection to real world issues?
10:10 Speaker 01 Hmm. So I saw that the glove was used. What was the message used from the White House when they shared it?
10:16 Speaker 06 Well, I think that the, what Drake is doing with his hands on the album, whether intentional or not, is a white nationalist signal. And then Iceman, which again, it's like, was he aware of these themes or not? It could be like ICE. So, you know, like the homeland security of it all, man. And so Trump basically used that in his favor, which I find just really interesting. But it's also weird when you see that level of subversion in like meme culture used by our administration.
10:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I definitely think it is something that you have to be careful about. And I think especially given this political climate, like you would have to be extra like aware of like the sensitivity that people have to so many of these like traumatic and horrific legislation that has come out. I mean, but why would this administration do that? Because that is the name of their game, right? And so I don't consider them to be like a responsible or engaged holistically kind of administration. So I'm not surprised that they use it in this way. But it does feel particularly disgusting, given Drake is a popular hip hop culture. And so many of the like the legislation and the policies that have come out of this administration are kind of fly in the face of like the history of hip hop and like the people who consider
11:35 Speaker 01 themselves consumers and the history of hip hop. So I think that that is particularly nasty. I do think, though, in different times and with different maybe administrations, there is a way to use pop culture and memes to like politically engage with people who are very like chronically online, so to speak, right? Like, I think we saw a lot of this with Kamala HQ and even with Joe Biden's presidency. Like, I feel like there were a lot of like young people on those campaigns who were really responsible for like clipping some of his content and like really rallying and helping people to get excited about politics in a different way. And those are not people that maybe you would have reached by just like having them tune into the debate, right?
12:19 Speaker 01 And so I do think that there is a way to use these kinds of things responsibly and ethically. I don't trust that this administration is doing any of that. But I'm also a little surprised, though maybe not, that there's nobody on like Drake's team who like paid attention to like how this might have been used, right? Even if he was not aware, like, you know, where the AR, the marketing people, like, did anybody think about, oh, this could be misinterpreted in this way? And this may not be like the attention we want for the album? I am curious about why that might have been missed.
12:50 Speaker 06 Yeah, I am curious about that as well. But I do also think In recent years, and you know, I think we've seen this throughout music and throughout music marketing, but a lot of times people, like the controversy works in their favor. And so I'm, not to be accusatory, but I'm almost questioning like, well, were they aware of it? And we're just like, well, this would bring more attention to the album anyway.
13:14 Speaker 01 Very possible, very possible. You bring up an excellent point, right? Cause all attention is good attention when you're trying to like get streamed and get downloads, right? So you're very right. Like they may have seen it and been like, yep, that's exactly the, the level that we want to pull.
13:27 Speaker 06 Okay. Our next topic is, we're going to talk about Spirit Airlines, which we did a few weeks ago, but now we have an influencer who's in the mix. So James Charles went viral after calling a laid off Spirit Airlines worker lazy for asking for financial support after losing her job during the airline collapse. He later apologized, but the interaction, I think sparked a broader conversation around influencer, their wealth, empathy, and disconnects around class that are happening online. And I'm curious, how can privilege impact someone's ability to empathize with instability or the way people survive and the stresses around that?
14:09 Speaker 01 Hmm. Yeah. I think it makes it so that you don't have the same sense of reality. There's a perspective taking that I think becomes slimmer when you reach certain levels of privilege, right? And definitely socioeconomic or you know, wealth will prevent you from like some of the modern kinds of concerns of people getting laid off or not sure how they're gonna, you know, feed their kids tomorrow. But so I think that that is kind of like inherent to the system of privilege is that you are in a different kind of stratosphere. And so the concern is that people who are not in that same level don't actually register for you in the same ways. This does feel particularly callous to me because if it was the case that he was not going to help this person, like why not just ignore it
14:53 Speaker 01 or send her a message and say, sorry, I can't help right now. I think the callousness is not necessarily about the not helping. It's about like then making content out of it because what motivates that part? Right? That feels, okay, that was particularly insensitive. Like even if it wasn't something that you could help with or that you wanted to help with, was the video that he made about it, an attempt to keep other people away from asking? Like, I'm just very curious around like the motivation for why she's already down on her luck and like needing assistance and now you have punched down to like make a video that you share with your humongous platform?
15:29 Speaker 06 And it definitely does feel like hustle culture. And right now, and over, I think, the past 10 years, a collective focus on entrepreneurship have really shaped the way we judge people who are experiencing hardship. We see influencers who have this narrative of being self-made. We see a lot of people who have been able to elevate their situation through working for themselves. But when, you know, and I think that does influence how we talk about and how we judge people who may be laid off or having a bad work situation. It does seem like you should be working harder, you could work for yourself. Talk to me about your thoughts on that.
16:09 Speaker 01 Hmm, well, shout out to my friend and guest on the podcast, Dr. Keehalman. Her book is called No One Is Self-Made, because none of us have done any of the things that we've done by ourselves, right? None of us just woke up, I mean, well, maybe it's some privilege, but if you are somebody who has built something, you didn't likely build it yourself. Like, there's a whole team of people involved. And I think there has been so much glorification of entrepreneurship in making people feel like it's just like an easy thing to just put up a shingle and like sell stuff online or offer some kind of service. And it honestly is not. But even if it's easy to make some sales, it's not like all that it's cracked up to be in terms of the impact on your mental health and like all the ways that you have to think differently about business structure and taxes.
16:52 Speaker 01 And there's a whole world involved in entrepreneurship that I don't think rises to the top when we have these conversations about how easy it is to just make money for yourself. And I don't think we are doing people any fairness when we leave out those more difficult parts, more stressful parts, and make it seem as if you can just make money online. It honestly is not that easy.
17:15 Speaker 06 Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you for that.
17:19 Speaker 01 More from our conversation after the break. A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each
18:02 Speaker 01 other? Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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19:14 Speaker 06 So Dr. Cheyenne Bryant, who you may have seen on Cam Newton's podcast and just in these internet streets, has faced intense online scrutiny after people questioned the legitimacy of her doctorate degree. And the situation has raised concerns about trust and expertise within wellness, mental health spaces. And I'm curious, how has social media blurred the line between mental health influence, influencers, and actual clinical care and people with expertise, degrees, credentials?
19:45 Speaker 01 Hmm, I think it has gotten very blurry. And I think some of it is the responsibility of the person themselves, but I do think that there is some shared responsibility with the platforms, because we know that things that are more controversial, things that are more do this now and this will happen, like those are the kinds of things that raise to the top in terms of algorithms, right? And so those are the kinds of things that get pushed out more. And so when you are operating ethically, like people who are licensed clinicians do, you're likely not making those kinds of statements like, oh, try this and this will improve your life in 30 days, because it's unethical and we could lose our licenses for saying those kinds of things, right? And so that means that we maybe are not seen
20:30 Speaker 01 in algorithms as much. But I do think, I think that there is a lane for people to share all kinds of different things online, right? So if you are somebody who has struggled with a mental health concern, like it is perfectly fine for you to share your experience and you know, other people may likely be helped by hearing that other people face similar kinds of things. I think the blurriness comes when you are using that or something else as expertise that like credentials you to then help somebody to do something else. Because lived experience is not all that is needed to like help somebody who has a mental health concern. And you know, I think a lot of the things that are happening with
21:10 Speaker 01 Dr. Bryant is that people are not sure that there actually is an advanced degree, even though she is calling herself doctor, right? And so, you know, I think that there are some honorary doctorates that have been bestowed and I guess that maybe gives you permission to call yourself doctor. But I think when you look at the like, the advice and like the kinds of things she's saying on these platforms. People will look at the doctor title and her, you know, she's kind of couching herself as like a life coach and a psychology expert. But the general public will see that doctor title and then assume like, oh, this means that this is a licensed professional. Or this means that like she has some expertise to talk about these things and that is not always the case.
21:53 Speaker 01 Right? I mean, that may not be the case here. And so I think it does damage to the public's trust of mental health professionals. When people are not honest about their credentials, because that is something that really kind of helps us to keep the integrity of the field and allows people to share some deeply personal things because there is a licensing body that we report to. Right now, the licensing boards are not foolproof. You know, like there's definitely room for improvement for sure. But right now it is a system that we have to at least do some service in terms of protecting the public from people who do not have goodwill. Who have not done the representative training and supervision and like all the things that are required to make sure that you are a good steward of the profession.
22:38 Speaker 01 So I think that that kind of confusion really damages the public trust.
22:43 Speaker 06 I'm really glad that you mentioned licensing boards not, they're not perfect. Because I do think a lot of pushback that people start to talk about the perils of therapy and, you know, alternative medicine has always been popular, whether you're thinking about like supplements, whether you're thinking about like other healing modalities. Or just access to care outside of your traditional patient therapist relationship. When people push back or even say like, I don't need therapy. I can just talk to a friend. I can talk to God. I can talk to my husband. How do you hold that tension of like we do on the show, we talk to a wide range of people, but also like prioritizing clinical expertise.
23:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, and I don't think that there's anything wrong with like seeking out the the avenue that feels like the best fit for you. Like therapy is not going to be the answer for everybody, nor like you mentioned, is it accessible and affordable, like relevant for everybody? But I do think that there should still be some guidelines that you're using for any kind of provider that you are working with, right? So maybe it is not therapist, a therapist, but who is this person reporting to? What kind of work have they done so that they are qualified to actually speak to you about these kinds of concerns? You know, like there still should be some vetting, even if it is not working with a licensed mental health professional in the more traditional sense.
24:07 Speaker 06 And my last question is, why can confidence and certainty and what we call looking put together sometimes feel more trustworthy than actual expertise?
24:18 Speaker 01 Oh, this is such a good one. And I think, you know, some of this is, I think, the ways that the algorithms operate, right? Because again, if you get online and talk with confidence and really seem as if you know what you are talking about, people are typically like attracted to that, right? It makes you feel credible, right? There's all this research that talks about like what actually builds credibility. But I do think it's important to have some substance to back that up. But I think for people who have figured out, this is why we see a new documentary on Hulu and Netflix every other month about like some cult or some scam that has been successful, because people who do not mean you well also know this research, right? And so if you get online and talk with confidence and you look put together, it doesn't really
25:01 Speaker 01 matter whether you know what you're talking about or whether you actually can help, people will buy into it. And so I think it's really important for us as consumers to be wise about who we are paying our money to, who we are accepting mental health advice from, right? Like it's just, there is no barrier on who can open up their phone and film content to share with you and the ideas of wellness, right? Like there is no gatekeeping there, like anybody can do it. And so even if something sounds good to you, it is important for you to vet who that information is coming from, what kind of board do they report to? Who are the other people who have been helped by this person? Where are they getting this research from? Like what is the basis for the information they are sharing with you? I think that that is still really important.
25:48 Speaker 06 Well, thank you so much for your perspective. I always have questions. The team has questions. You have questions, so I'm glad we could take a couple of minutes to unpack these. We will see you all next week.
26:00 Speaker 01 Yes, and if there are things that you are paying attention to, watching in the pop culture zeitgeist that we haven't touched on, definitely send those to us at therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox.
26:16 Speaker 01 A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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27:44 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed humor.
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