Session 105: Hilary Duff

Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Hilary and Pre-Save “mature” out 11/6! https://www.hilaryduff.com/ Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@octopusslover8 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:40Speaker 01

  Hi pussies and welcome to the season finale of Therapuss. Actually, I guess it's, what's it, November now? I guess it's really been almost a year since we started this season. And when I did Therapuss season one, it took off in this way. I like hadn't absolutely no idea would happen. And the same thing kind of happened for season two, which just kept getting bigger and more intense and more fun. And all these moments that were like dreams that I never thought would happen, happened. I mean, in season two, we had Lord, we had Selena Gomez. I mean, we have Hilary Duff tonight. It's just insane. It like really is so insane what this has become.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  And it's really and truly all because of you guys. Like, nobody else made this happen, but you guys. And I'm just so grateful for the community we've built and like this platform you guys have given me. And I cannot wait to do bigger and better things in season three. I'm like sad that this is, that season two is over, but I'm also really, really excited to redo the set. And I always want to be better. I always want to get better at interviewing people. I always want to get better at keeping the conversation light, but also deep. Like, there's so much for me to get better on and I'm so excited to. Have that opportunity in another season.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  It really, really warms my heart that the heart of this show, which is me and my best friends, has never changed. Like, you guys still love the friend episodes, no matter how big the guests get. Like, at the end of the day, I think what your guys' favorite moments from the show are always with my best friends. And it makes me so happy and it makes recording these episodes with them so much fun. And I can't wait to do more of those in season three. I'm just feeling very grateful and very excited to do more in the coming months. Yeah, I don't really know what else to say. I was like, I was out this weekend. I went to the Lakma Gala and I was like looking around and I was like,

• 2:49Speaker 01

  I've never been to something as cool as this before. And all I kept thinking about was this podcast and you guys, and how the only reason I'm there is because of that. And I was just feeling very grateful. And thank you so much to our sponsors of this season. It would not have been the same without you. Thank you, Bumble. Thank you, SeatGeek. Thank you, Booking. Booking dot E-A-. Thank you, Celsius. Thank you, Cozy Earth. I love you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you for believing in me. Thank you for believing in this show. I cannot wait to see what happens next season. And I'm really, really excited for you guys to see the season finale tonight. It is with none other than the queen herself, Hilary Duff. Her new single, Mature, is out November 6th.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  That's this Friday. It is incredible. I can confirm I've heard it. The way I would describe it, it reminds me so much of Metamorphosis, if Metamorphosis grew up 20 years, which it literally did. The chorus is incredible. I mean, when Louise heard it, she almost passed out. She said she felt like she was like transported back in time. But it's like you're transported back in time, but you're also present, if that makes sense, because the content is so different. It's just incredible. I'm so excited for everyone to hear it. And I'm so excited for you guys to see the episode tonight. Hilary is a living icon. We got to talk about the 2000s, Lizzie McGuire, the Lizzie McGuire movie, A Cinderella Story, Raise Your Voice. It was such an incredible conversation and...

• 4:18Speaker 01

  I'm so grateful that she was the season finale. So, thank you, Hillary. Stream mature on November 6th and I'll see you next season. I love you pussies. Enjoy the episode.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Oh my God, I'm so upset. I'm gonna freak out. You already know I had my movie marathon this weekend.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  I really enjoyed watching that.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  That was just the best experience of my life. I was literally, every morning I'd wake up and I would put a new one on. I would put a new one on and I was in bed with my friend Cassidy all weekend.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  What did you order?

• 4:49Speaker 01

  What, like, what do you, like?

• 4:50Speaker 02

  Like, food-wise, like?

• 4:51Speaker 01

  I got pho.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Ooh, okay.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  I had, it was really good and then I all, yeah, I had pho, I think like twice this weekend. And I was really hungover and I was finishing, obviously, the Lizzie McGuire movie. And obviously, the final, well, not the final scene, but the scene came on where what, this is what Dreams Are Made Of, obviously, you perform it. And I looked at Cassidy and it was like the most unity I felt in like maybe 10 years. I was like, this song is actually poetic. I was also really high, but like, it was fantastic. And I really did.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  That's great to do it.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  I did wanna ask you, like, when you were making that in the studio?

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Was I really high?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  No, no. Were you just like, were you like, holy shit, this song is amazing?

• 5:36Speaker 02

  No.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Stop it.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Very much no.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  What?

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely not. I don't even remember recording that song. But I will say, now I love it. And when I was filming the movie, I loved it. It was just, it was like a weird time and it wasn't technically my song. It was a Lizzie McGuire song. So, I think having, like, my music that I was recording, I forget the timeline, to be honest. I mean, I was literally 14 years old.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  I think, yeah, you were young.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  If I was like, hey, Jay.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  What did I do at 14? And I'd be like, I have no idea.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's some very big moments that stand out, obviously. Like, some of the, like, being in Italy for Lizzie McGuire, but then the rest of it filmed in Vancouver. I could like barely remember any of that stuff, so.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  What filmed in Vancouver?

• 6:24Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't. It was like a song for Lizzie McGuire.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  So you didn't think it like represented you? You were like, this is Lizzie?

• 6:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  It's a banger.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  And actually, when I sing it now, I feel a lot of joy. I just think that there was like such a separation back then of like me and my music and Lizzie McGuire. That that song, like, I didn't, I didn't really get to perform that song live, because I didn't own it, maybe.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Oh, I was about to say, because that was, it was under Disney. It was, it was like Lizzie McGuire IP.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  So when you did your tour and you were doing Metamorphosis, you were just doing songs from that album?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  But if I would ever tour again.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Don't play with me.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  I think maybe I would be allowed to manage to sing that song somehow, some way.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  On the floor? You'd have to scrape.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Maybe, you know, just maybe, like hypothetically.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  You would have to scrape me off the floor with like a Zamboni? Like, I, oh my god, if I heard that live, I think I'm not even.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Wait, a Zamboni, does that mean we're like in an arena?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Like, you're in an arena if there's a Zamboni.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  It's a big show.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Would you? You have done arenas.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  I have.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  You have, from Metamorphosis.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  I liked your, your, um, casual cosmopolitan over there.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, it was.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Cosmopolitan. How old? Is that new or old?

• 7:45Speaker 01

  No, it's very old. It's from, well, not very old, but it's from like, I think, 2010.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  And, um, and it, and, uh, my friend Willa gave it to me as a gift.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  I know. It's great.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Off topic.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  No, but you're obviously recording new music now, which I had the pleasure of hearing. Louise, I mean, she started crying.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Wait, what?

• 8:08Speaker 01

  She started crying. She said she felt like she was transported back.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  Stop.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  She's, it's actually phenomenal.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  You're so sweet. Thank you.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Phenomenal.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  You're so sweet. Thank you.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Of course, but it's your first music in 10 years, right?

• 8:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  What made you say like, okay, now this is the moment that I want to do new music?

• 8:27Speaker 02

  You know, it's always been, it was always gonna happen. There's no, there's, there's no way that that was not gonna be a part of my, my story.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  But I think living with the person that I live with, who's my husband, and just being ten years removed from music, and being thirty-eight and just like arriving kind of like where I am in my life. And I, I just felt like I had a lot of, like, I can finally like fill in the blanks. And I'm ready to like fill in those blanks and share with people and connect with them on the level of now. And, and, you know, I've had a twenty-five-plus-year career. And in an, and like I,

• 9:23Speaker 02

  obviously, it's taken a lot of twists and turns and ups and downs and all of those things. But I have this crazy like connection with fans that like I've known since I was nine, ten years old. And, and I just wanna like connect with them again now. And I think that we have gone through a lot of the same things, whether that's complicated relationships, anxiety, raising kids, divorces,

• 9:54Speaker 02

  trying to find yourself in adulthood, family drama. I mean, lots of, lots of topics that, you know, just felt like finally I felt safe enough and comfortable in my own family to step outside and open that part of myself up again. And, and, you know, like, just being comfortable to say no and really not know what the capacity looks like of like, okay, I did used to tour arenas. And I did do these big, giant things when I was younger. And now it might look a little bit different, and that's okay, you know? Which in the past looked a lot like, go work with this songwriter.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Go fly to Sweden and do this thing, because this is what's working for this person. And that, you know, just it felt a lot, it felt messy. And, and...

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Still, there was like big parts of me in there, but I just didn't really know my power yet.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  When you-

• 10:55Speaker 02

  That makes sense.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  That made complete sense.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  That was a very long answer.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  No, but it made complete sense. Like, do you feel like when you were making your first few albums, like Metamorphosis, was that kind of like the path you were on? They were like, "Go work with this person, go work with this person." And like, did you not feel like those encapsulated how you felt in that moment?

• 11:13Speaker 02

  So Metamorphosis is a little bit different because I was very involved in that record. And that was a very big snapshot of like my life in that moment and entering me as a pop star.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Right. How old were you? Fifteen, fourteen?

• 11:32Speaker 02

  I think maybe I was fourteen making the record, turning fifteen.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  And that was a very big, like, me record. And I worked with a lot of the same people, which felt good and felt a little bit more like a creative

• 11:50Speaker 02

  journey that was like all in one house.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean?

• 11:55Speaker 02

  And then, and some of my other records as well, I forget them. I forgot, I forget all the titles.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  One's called Hilary Duff.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  That was self-titled.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  One is called Hilary Duff, colon.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  I'm dead for you right now. You did such good research.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Breathe in, breathe out.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that-

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Most Wanted! Oh, so good, so good. No, it's not even, I didn't even need to do research. Like, I have been, I felt like I'd been living with you in my household since I gained consciousness. You know what I mean? I really, truly, like, I remember watching Lizzie McGuire as a kid, and then I remember watching the Lizzie McGuire movie, and then Cinderella Story, and then, you know, like, everything. Material Girls, everything. Do you have like a favorite?

• 12:43Speaker 02

  I loved Cinderella Story.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  I mean-

• 12:45Speaker 02

  I was like an angsty little pre-teen, like, or no, like, I was fully teenager, I think, filming that movie. So that was just like a good time for me. I felt like, I was like, oh, I'm like filming a cool movie. And, you know, I wasn't like-

• 13:01Speaker 02

  I was like stepping outside of Lizzie McGuire and that felt, that felt exciting and I was starting to do music and so yeah, I think that one.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Were you nervous about stepping outside of Lizzie?

• 13:13Speaker 02

  No, I was so ready. I was so ready. And I, you know, I don't mean to talk about her as like a, I needed to, I needed a break from that, but I really needed a break from her.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  You were 14, 15.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I feel like I was her. I'm not going to pretend that I was like some amazing actress. Like she was me, I was her. It was the same. You know what I mean? We were both like in the same exact element of our lives and time of our lives and, but she just became so famous.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  You weren't, and you didn't expect that at all?

• 13:42Speaker 02

  No, I, I'm such a like grubby little Texas kid that like, I, like, I remember, I'm also a valley rat. Like I grew up in the valley. Once we got to LA from Texas, um, I was like an Oakwood apartment kid.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  You know, eventually we like got a condo and that was a big deal and we weren't, you know, living in the Oakwood apartments anymore. And I was just like, I had like a scooter gang and like, I was just friends with like all the Burbank kids. One weekend, Lizzie McGuire posters like appeared at all the malls and I was like meeting my friends at the mall. And my mom like didn't even think twice about it. And all of a sudden I got mobbed at the mall and.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  And this was after the premiere?

• 14:25Speaker 02

  I think it was like happening that week.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  And someone who worked at the mall stuck me in the janitor closet and was like, call your mom to come and get you. It was crazy.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Were you like, in that moment, were you, were you like, this is so cool? Like I, this is like, I, this is like what I've like been working towards and dreamed of? Or were you like, I am so overwhelmed? What did I sign up for?

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Jake. We haven't spent that much time around each other. I never feel cool.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Shut, shut, stop it. That can't be true. You in the Dodgers hat and a Cinderella story. I mean, my jaw, I'm gagged. I'm sitting there like, there's no one cooler. In the diner, I'm like, there's actually never been anyone cooler. You don't feel cool?

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. I mean, now I love, like, I, I don't want to feel cool now. Like, cool is not.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  You know, you're like past the point of like feeling cool, you know, that's like in a teen, you didn't feel cool as a teenager being like, yeah, I'm Hilary Duff.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I mean, I think I had moments where I had a lot of confidence and then other moments where I was like

• 15:39Speaker 02

  out of body experience, you know?

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Was that one of those out of body experiences?

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, big time. And I honestly didn't, I was just like, Mom, can you come get me? Because there's lots of people at the mall, like, really excited that I'm here. Like, I've always been like shy. I don't, I'm like a hybrid of like shy and very talkative, but like, you know, it's, I think it was just weird to have like so much attention.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  But I understood it too. Like, I'm like, I'm an actor. I know I could assume this was going to happen, but it's not really what I wanted the outcome. I wasn't, it wasn't the desired outcome.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Got it, got it. And then is that the moment where you're like the before, like there was before and then there was after. And was that kind of a temple moment of you where it was like, now this is after and now Lizzie McGuire has premiered and everything has changed? Or did it take some time?

• 16:34Speaker 02

  It was instant. It was really fast.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  And like,

• 16:38Speaker 02

  But I think that's the power of TV and your people's living rooms, you know what I mean?

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Because it was just on all the time.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  And do you? Was like

• 16:45Speaker 02

  I think I remember feeling cool.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Even Stevens was on and like all these other shows that I loved watching and I was like, and there I am.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, but like, I'm shy about it.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Of course, of course.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  I think I felt cool.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  But it's crazy because Lizzie McGuire was only on for two seasons.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  I know.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Did, was there ever talk, did they want to push it more and you were like, I'm, I'm done?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Okay, so this was like always a complicated thing for me to understand as a like younger person is like Disney Channel had a formula that they followed where they just ordered a certain amount of episodes and that was what they did for their shows. That's like they spent this amount of money, they had this amount of an order and they stuck to that formula for all of those shows.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  And I never understood that. Like it was, I mean, I think one year we shot like thirty episodes in one year and maybe the next one was like thirty-five episodes in one year. So that's when I'm like, I'm not like, oh, Lizzie McGuire hated her. I was just like, I had worked like, you know.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  You were young as well.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  I was young and it was just day, day, every day, every day. And I was in every single scene of that show pretty much. I was in the A story and the B story. So I was just like pretty tapped on her. But also it was fun. I loved it. I loved it. I had the best time. But yeah, that was like, I think, and then like Lizzie McGuire broke all of their records for the shows. And I think after that show, they were like, oh, we're changing this. And like the Hannah Montanas came and Wizards of Waverly Place and stuff. And I think maybe they shot more episodes of those.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  They did. I think there was about three or four seasons of those.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Did Selena or Miley or anyone in that generation ever come to you and be like, what was this like for you? Like, did you ever mentor any of the, them or was it just separate, separated?

• 18:33Speaker 02

  It was always like, I, I can't remember exactly, but I know at some point like Selena and Demi both approached me at, at certain things like years and years and years ago. Then they were like, you know, really lovely and really sweet and kind and telling me how much they love me and that kind of conversation. But I was never like, let me show you the way.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Which thank goodness, because it's been so fun to watch all of them pave their way and, and, and watch the journey. It's been like insane. Like what?

• 19:06Speaker 02

  What a ride for all of, all of the Disney people, you know?

• 19:10Speaker 01

  It's crazy though that Disney Channel is not extinct now, but it's not what it was. Like, do your children, like, do they know? Like, what, do they, like, understand, like, how big Disney Channel was? Or is it big for them still? Or are they, like, watching, like, streamers and stuff? Like, what are the kids watching?

• 19:30Speaker 02

  It's so weird. Every night I put them to sleep and I'm like, let me tell you about how big I was and Disney Channel was. The network I was on, it was big, kids. Um, no, they don't know and they don't care at all.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  They're messing out.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm more just like negotiating iPad time and

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  You know, they have like the attention span of a gnat and that's that. No, I'm just kidding. They, they actually, my, my four-year-old Mei Mei loves this Cinderella story. And she's like, you know, can you put the one on where you're the princess? Where you're the girl with the big dress? And I'm like, yeah, but then she only wants to get to the end. And she's like, why do I have to wait so long for it to, to see the dress?

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Oh, she just wants like the rain and the everything?

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  My God. We spoke about this very briefly over DM. Were you not during filming, like with the mask on and Chad Michael Murray is like, who are you? You're like?

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Don't you love it?

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, but aren't you like?

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Isn't it just part of movie history that you love?

• 20:27Speaker 01

  No, yes, but in that moment, were you like?

• 20:29Speaker 02

  Hello?

• 20:30Speaker 01

  He might, like, were you, were you like clocking it in the moment? Like, he, he knows, right? Or were you just like, whatever, like, fuck it?

• 20:37Speaker 02

  I think I was like 16 and I didn't give a shit. I was like, I've got to wear this mask on my face.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  I wasn't really too invested in the creative at that

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  point.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Got it. Got it.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  I'm so sorry if I let you down.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  No, no, it's, it's okay.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Or the wardrobe stylist didn't make the right

• 20:56Speaker 01

  No, you know what? Like, that makes, that's the fun of it. You're watching it and you're like, how does he not know?

• 21:01Speaker 02

  You know?

• 21:01Speaker 01

  But you know, he is part of my favorite trope, and so are you. The unpopular girl works in the diner and the popular boy and the whole popular group comes in and the popular boy shows you attention. And you know what? You have worked in a diner in multiple films.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Oh, wait, what's the other one?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Um, raise your voice. You worked in the family restaurant.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  A fact I did not remember.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  She did, right? She did. Like, you, do you feel like? Do you feel like?

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Maybe I should have worked in a diner.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  No, like, could you? Like, if you had to, like, throw up?

• 21:32Speaker 02

  I think I would crush working in a diner.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  I think you would, too. Because you do a great job, and I understand it's a movie. But, like, I've seen it now in two different, completely worlds.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  This is, this is a little off-topic, but I'm just hoping I find the thread. I, like, one of my husband's, one of the things he complains the most about me is I love to, like, meet a vacation friend. Or, like, we'll go out to dinner, and I'll just, like, start talking to the table next to us. And he's like, "Fuck, Hillary, come on. Why? Why? Like, we get so little time. Why do you have to, like, bring this person?" And whatever. I think if I worked at a diner, I would be, like, social.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  And happy.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  That's the best quality of a diner waiter or waitress, is that you know them.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know the order.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  You know, you're, like, that familiarity.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes. Do you? Okay, so I was also watching Younger, and do you?

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Did you watch all of Younger?

• 22:26Speaker 01

  I watched, like, I watched it when it was on the air. I watched for a few seasons, and then I was in college. And I kind of, like...

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Oh, I'll give it to you. You fell off when you went to college.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  I fell off television in general, in college. I was like, I, like, lost myself completely. But, when, I know.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  I wonder why I would do that if I went to college.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Do you ever wonder, like?

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, what I would have been like in either middle school, high school, or college? Who would I be?

• 22:49Speaker 01

  You didn't even, Lizzie McGuire was your middle school.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  No, like, I was so, that was, that's like a secret when, like, the fact that I got, like, a locker as Lizzie McGuire, like, I felt like it was my own. And I was just like, this is the one I got.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  But you had, like, all your Burbank friends, like, were they all in middle school? Being like, this is what middle school is like? And were you like, "Damn"? Or were you like, "It's cool that I'm Lizzie McGuire"? Or both?

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Combination.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Combo.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  What I was gonna ask about Younger, though, was, did that feel somewhat like a continuation of Lizzie's story in, like, a weird way? Or was it, to you, two separate, entirely, two separate stories?

• 23:26Speaker 02

  To me, it was two separate stories because Kelsey had, like, this confidence that Lizzie never had. And Kelsey was like...

• 23:35Speaker 02

  A little bit more like beast mode with like her career and like driven to like get ahead. And she was like a party animal and like sexually like free. And I don't feel like Lizzie is any of those things.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  But didn't you guys want to make Lizzie like that for the reboot? And they were like, uh-uh. And then like, that's what happened, right?

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Um, yes, I think that there was, there was, um, you know, just disagreements on how far we could take her and what, where she is as, you know, she would have been when we were filming that like 30 or 31. And for me, I was that age, you know? And so I was just like, also felt so deeply connected to her as a character because we were the same. And I was like, oh, man, like, we can't, we can't marry Tyler Moore her. That's not like, I don't know, it was like 2023, like, you know what I mean?

• 24:38Speaker 02

  There's like social media and like, like, we weren't, I wasn't trying to have her like wake up and do like bong rips or anything. But like, she was a normal 30 year old, you know? So there was some things I think they just weren't like totally willing to.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  And do you, did you see her, like, do you think Lizzie and Gordo had like a thing post? Or do you think they stayed friends?

• 25:00Speaker 02

  So I don't think they had a thing post. I think they had like maybe an almost thing post. I know, like, again, like another swing at it that like didn't, yeah, devastating, right? In my mind, this is my story.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  You are Lizzie.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  But I think that there was a thing with someone else that was just very quick.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  And Gordo was like, oh.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  I think maybe there was like a thing with, like, in my mind, I like to think she had like a thing with Ethan Kraft finally.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, you agree? Totally agree.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, just a quick thing, like a, like a, you know.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, and he's always like there to pick up her pieces still like. I know.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  I mean, he.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  It's really fun to play the what ifs like I love to play it out.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  But like, you really don't think ever with Gordo? No, you know what you said? No, I agree. I agree. I agree.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Was there ever conversation about taking Lizzie into high school and you were like?

• 25:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  It was just like junior high, she's done. Wow.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. I don't think that was the demo for the Disney Channel, like high school students.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  And did you, when you were filming the movie?

• 26:05Speaker 02

  So that they had never done that. They had never done a movie.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  And when you were filming that and it came out, because when it came out, it was major. Like, did you expect it to be as big as it was because Lizzie McGuire had been so big? Or were you like still being like, wow, this is crazy?

• 26:21Speaker 02

  I don't really recall, like it all was so big. That's all I remember is like, it was all so big. It was all so like, oh, this has never happened before. Oh, look at this, these numbers or this, you know, it was like all this stuff that like I kind of understood, but didn't really understand. And like, I was also like a selfish teenager.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Right, of course.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  You know, so I, I had other, other things to pay attention to, which I think was probably really healthy. That like my parents or my mom wasn't like, basking in the, yeah, obviously, everybody loves success, right? It was all great for business.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  But, um,

• 27:00Speaker 02

  I still like, I think I was like getting my driver's license and I was really focused on that.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Do you, when did though, like photographers and press start?

• 27:08Speaker 02

  Right around that time.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  So like 2003, they like you were, that's when they started following you around and stuff?

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  And do you remember feeling like, oh, I feel this, this feels weird at one point? And you're feeling like this is getting more intense and this feels weird?

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Um, I just remember having to like deal with paparazzi everywhere I went. So that was weird because my sweet friends, my, my friends would be like my bodyguard. I think part of it was like, there was a tiny, tiny portion that was like, kind of fun and exciting.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  And then it got old really fast, and then we were all like, really sick of it.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  Well, cause like, at first, it's like, ooh, hi, photo, hi, and then it's like, oh no, you've, it's actually, you're waiting outside my house and you're following me everywhere.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there's, there's, um, there's sometimes, there's some paps around, but, um, not like it used to be like, hordes of them. You know, and like, following me around all day long. They love to do it to a pregnant woman, which is like, the worst possible time to wanna be followed around. And, um, you know, just every single location, every single stop you're making throughout the day, they're there. And they're like, driving crazy, and they don't care, and they break all the rules, and they have no respect for you, and...

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  But it has changed a lot.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Or people don't care about me anymore, I don't know which one.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  People care. Do you hear how many people screamed when you came out as Sally with Role Model?

• 28:33Speaker 02

  Yes, I did.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Like, that was, I want to say that was the most talked about crazy Sally. It was, do you agree? People were like, no fucking chance. And it was? What was that like?

• 28:48Speaker 02

  That was so fun. Honestly, I had been listening to his music a lot, and, um, I was just cooking dinner for my kids, honestly. It was like, a normal night at my house. And I tend to not be in touch with my cellphone for like, a few hours during that time. That's like, that's peak craziness at my house, is like, 4:30 to like, 7:30. And my husband calls the home phone, we have a home phone, cause we live in the canyon.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  No way.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, we have like, shitty service.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Oh, you have like, a landline?

• 29:21Speaker 02

  We have a landline, babe.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Oh my god!

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we also have wifi, but...

• 29:25Speaker 01

  No, right.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Just in case, we got that landline.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Wow, so he called the landline?

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he's like, babe, can you please pick up your phone, everyone's trying to reach you, you have to go be Sally tomorrow. And I was like, what? That's exciting. And I was like, I can't, I have too much to do tomorrow. And he was like, no, no, no, you're gonna go do it. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna go do it. And then I just like, moved a bunch of shit around, and...

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Dug my cowboy boots out of my closet and was on a plane like the next morning at 8 a.m. and it was fun. It was very fun. I also like, I'm from Texas.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Right. So it was like, felt full circle almost. Yeah. And do you know I was the first ever Sally?

• 30:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  What?

• 30:09Speaker 01

  Tucker didn't tell you?

• 30:10Speaker 02

  No.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  I was the first ever Sally.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Stop.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Swear. In Houston.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  What?

• 30:16Speaker 01

  No, in Dallas. I'm so sorry. In Dallas, in Dallas. But because I was in Houston the next night, which is why I thought that. But still, close by.

• 30:23Speaker 02

  You were the first Sally?

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  I wanna, I wanna see the footage.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  I'll send it to you.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  I wanna compare our.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Yours is much better, but because I didn't know what to do. But yeah, I was the first Sally.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  That's amazing. Are you guys friends?

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's been on the show. He's great.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Cute.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  But he, there was like, um, there was like, uh, he's been on the show twice. And so there was like a rumor that the song was like written about me.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  As like a, obviously a joke. And I love attention. So I'm like repost, obviously. Like I want to reiterate the rumor. And I was like, oh, my God, you're in Dallas. I'm in Dallas. And he's like, do you want to come out and do something? And Sally was born.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Stop.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  You created it, this movement.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  I know.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  I've never had such a mix of people like, wait, who is Sally? Or, oh, holy fuck, you're gonna be Sally?

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Yes. It's a huge, huge thing.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  That's crazy, though, about concert culture that has changed drastically is bringing out people as like a show. That never used to be a thing, right? Because like, what, what do you think? Like, performing pre-social media versus during social media? Like, what is the difference to you? Obviously, there's like very obvious differences, but like to you, what is the difference?

• 31:37Speaker 02

  I mean, I think it's just a common theme in life now where like everything is filmed and like you're witnessing everything through your camera lens to get it on camera. So you can like, I guess, relive it again, or I don't know what. So you can brag about it or what? Like, that's, you know what I mean?

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  It's not just concerts. It's. Witnessing and like I'm watching my kid do a thing at school and instead of just watching it, I'm like watching it through my screen.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Um, but I think that's, that's the, that's the thing is just to like have it, I guess, or to catch the moment. Like what's the, we're all a lot less present. One thing I'm grateful for is that I don't always have to go to the concert and I can see it on social media.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Got it, got it.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 32:19Speaker 01

  No, for sure.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Like the highlights?

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Yes. Do you want to talk about your single? Cause by, by the time this comes out, it'll be announced.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Mature?

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Where was the inspiration behind that? What was it like creating it?

• 32:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, with Mature, it's, it's a really fun song and I feel like it's myself talking to my younger self about an experience that we had and just reflecting on it and um, being okay with it and having like, you know, a little like tongue in cheek moment with yourself um, and, and like accepting your past and um, like being good with where you landed.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  Does that make sense?

• 33:10Speaker 01

  That makes complete sense.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  It's like you can look back on a situation with more wisdom than you had in the moment.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  And then like, release the feelings that you have towards it. Do you feel like when you write a song, you release everything you have about that situation?

• 33:25Speaker 02

  I don't think I release everything, but I think it feels good to talk about. Like it's just like sitting with a friend, right? Like anytime someone's meeting you where you're at or has had a similar experience, like you feel instantly a little better about yours.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  And that's what music does, right? Like you see yourself or feel yourself in music and that's why you keep listening to it. Cause it sees you and you see it.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Do you have a song in your discography that you recognize really resonates with your fans the most and like you feel very connected to them while performing that song?

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a really good question. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to like dig into my, my disco, my disco, dis-

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Do it for me.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Discography.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Discography. Um, but I might text you later and be like, it's this one.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  Um, there's a song that you might be familiar with. It's called Wake Up.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  Might be familiar?

• 34:26Speaker 02

  Okay. It wasn't a single, so I never know.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Wake Up wasn't a single?

• 34:30Speaker 02

  No babe. That was just for me in the moment of my life and feeling like everywhere I went, I had eyes on me and everyone was like talking about me and whether it was good or bad, it didn't matter. It was just like, performing that song was always like the most fun. I feel like I loved it and the audience was like there with me and I, I, it's not like the most emotional one, but it was always, it always hit.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Did you like touring?

• 34:57Speaker 02

  I really loved touring. I mean, I couldn't wait to get on stage every night and um, especially in the beginning. I mean, I think one of my first shows was in Santa Cruz and it was like at a skate park and it was like 400 kids packed in, standing room only, like crazy. It was so much fun. I had no idea what the fuck I was doing, like 0%. I was like, I don't, I barely know how to sing, but I'm having the time of my life.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  I had like had very little like training, but I had these songs and I was like gonna go for it. So it was just like really scrappy and I remember like just feeling like my eyes were wide open and I was just gonna like do the best I could.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Were you nervous?

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, hell yeah, I was nervous, of course. But then quickly after that, I was like selling out arenas.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  So it was this wild thing and of course I loved it. I had the best time. Um, and then I got a little older and like it became a lot, like it became monotonous and there wasn't so many breaks. Like I would tour and then I would go film a movie and then I would go back to touring and then I would make a record and then I would go film a movie and then it was just like crazy. So I think a- after a while, I really needed a break and I was just like burnt out and I was like tired of having- People on retainer and being responsible for like tons of people's lives to float, you know?

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Right. Do you feel though, when you were on tour? Because obviously when you were in LA or you were in New York, the press would follow you around everywhere. But do you feel like when you were on tour and you were going from state to state, like it was almost like a break from that or not at all?

• 36:39Speaker 02

  I think I'm more excited to do it now with, cause I'm like who I am and I'm, I know what I like and what I, how I enjoy spending my time and you know, I, I wasn't like a formed person yet then. So I just spent a ton of time in my hotel room and in the venue. And I just went from like bus to venue to hotel room to bus venue to hotel, like it wasn't,

• 37:03Speaker 02

  it was really fun and amazing. And then it got really old.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a lot.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  I taught myself how to knit.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  While you were on tour?

• 37:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  I have a lot of grandma like qualities as well. Like I own chickens and I like do sourdough and I taught myself how to like crochet and knit and, you know, there's, there's a lot of like granny things happening. I love to go to bed early.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  What time do you like to go to bed?

• 37:28Speaker 02

  I like to be in bed at like nine fifteen.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Know what? I also feel the same exact way about myself.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  And I put on my TV show, I go right to bed.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I sometimes don't even put on the TV show.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Do you have a show you're watching right now?

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Well, I'm watching a show with Luca right now, which is really fun because now I have a 13 year old son. And so we can watch like more adult things together. Uh, we're watching Wayward.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  Oh, I've heard it's great. Is, do you like it?

• 37:57Speaker 02

  Interesting. Yeah. There's still a lot of questions and I'm almost at the end. So I'm a little ready to like,

• 38:01Speaker 01

  When are they gonna wrap up the questions?

• 38:02Speaker 02

  But Toni Collette is.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Genius.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Speaking of Toni Collette, have you seen Hereditary?

• 38:09Speaker 02

  No.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  I miss a lot of things. Having four kids, I miss a lot of things. Like I'm scared you're gonna ask me what I'm listening to right now.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I won't. Don't worry, don't worry. Do you like horror movies at all, or no?

• 38:21Speaker 02

  No.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  Okay, then you can't watch Hereditary.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  I've told you I'm not old enough.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, right, of course.

• 38:25Speaker 02

  I'm a baby.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Right. But if you ever do find yourself watching Hereditary, ask your husband if he's ever seen it.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  He's, he's...

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Not a horror person either?

• 38:33Speaker 02

  We love murder. Love mystery, love murder. Don't love like, ah, horror.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  Okay, that's Hereditary.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  And in a really twisted way, Raise Your Voice walked, so Hereditary could run.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Wait, what are you saying right now?

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Like, I'm...

• 38:49Speaker 02

  What?

• 38:50Speaker 01

  I'm telling you, and like, you're gonna, and you, if you watch Hereditary,

• 38:54Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  you will understand what I am talking about.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  I was literally watching Raise Your Voice, and I was like, is this Hereditary?

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Wait, she goes to like, a performing arts school and sings and what?

• 39:06Speaker 01

  No, no, no. There's just like, certain things. I can't spoil Hereditary for you.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  But you'll just be like, I'm dead.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Literally. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, Hereditary, same shit.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  I need to watch Raise Your Voice again.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, same shit, I swear. I was like, oh my god, it's Hereditary. I know whoever made Hereditary, watch Raise Your Voice before.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  They were a fan.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Yes, they were a big, big Raise Your Voice fan.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Also, just combined genres.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Okay, alright.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  I, I know it sounds crazy, but like, if you get it, it is like, it's so specific. Whatever.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  I believe you. I believe you.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  Well, you talked about earlier, really enjoying connecting with your fans. Do you feel like,

• 39:53Speaker 01

  acting, connecting with your fans via acting, connecting with your fans via singing, or connecting with your fans in other like, business endeavors? It's all different types of connection for you? And like, which one do you feel like, the strongest with?

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Hmm, well, I have to say music.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:11Speaker 02

  It's, you just, you're so out there, and like, front facing on your, with your words and your terms and your way, and you know, it's just, it's exposure way differently than like, going and filming someone else's script.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  And I think that's why I need, I took such a big break. I wasn't ready, I wasn't like, in a space to like, be sharing like that, you know?

• 40:41Speaker 02

  But it is the best way to connect, I think. And it's the highest compliment, you know, when people are like, oh, your music this, this, or just showing excitement for like what's to come. It's, it really makes me feel good and I can't wait to, to feel that again. It's been a really long time. I've missed everybody. And I'm always greeted with such like kindness, really and truly. Like when Younger got put on Netflix, it had this like whole resurgence and people were so excited to find that show. That show was always like the little engine that could. I felt like people that saw it loved it, but like not too many people knew about it. But it was like this weird, it went on for like seven years, was just a very long running show, you know?

• 41:26Speaker 02

  And people loved it. But when it was finally on Netflix like a year ago or something and everybody thought it was like this new show, it was really fun just to have everyone like fall in love with it over again. And then, you know, the Lizzie of it all is like, it's such a high paying compliment, you know? And it's also something that travels with me in a way that I have to like send a little care to myself because, you know, one of the things that people constantly are like, hey, like, oh my God, you were my entire childhood, you were my entire childhood. And like, it's such a compliment.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  And then also I'm like here as a 38 year old woman and I'm like, it's okay, you're okay. Don't worry about it. Like you've done other things that they like, but that one really stood out and that's fine.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Right, right. Like you're like, well, what about my other stuff?

• 42:19Speaker 02

  A little bit. Sometimes it, sometimes it feels like that. Like you're just like, oh man, am I ever gonna snag them again, you know? But I think that, that, you know, this, this time around with music, finally the pressure's off and I get to just like fully be myself and I don't care.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Cause you're so happy in your life.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did you get sick after the rain scene in A Cinderella Story?

• 42:45Speaker 02

  No.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  But I'm always sick. If you can't tell. Um, I'm, I think I have like a tough exterior shell and I'm like a little, my weakened immune system is like eggshells. But I also have four kids that I'm coming, they're like disgusting little germs.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Kids?

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  They are so germy. It's the craziest thing.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want to hear your take on that, even though you don't have kids, like is I, does it go under like the dog food category?

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Right. So for those that are unaware, Hillary was shocked when I said, I can't have a dog.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Because, no, I'm just shocked by the because I had to fill that in.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Because you know those bags of fucking dog food, it's like a freezer bag of dog food that people keep in their fridge. I think it is so nasty. It bugs me out so much. And like, I understand, like, that is what's best for the dog. And I know I can't give my dog a good life because I cannot have that anywhere near me.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  What about just kibble?

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Well, but so, but obviously there's a reason people aren't feeding their dogs kibble anymore.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  You know, they're feeding them these like.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Human. Wet, like, it's so gross.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  You definitely couldn't ever have a cat.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  It like slops out of the bag in a way I've never seen. And every time I look at it, I'm like, fuck.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Wait, I'm trying to think of like, human food that we would eat that would like slop out of the bag. You don't mess with that either. Like, what would slop? Like macaroni and cheese?

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, like when people put spaghetti in a, a plastic bag and bring it to a picnic? Get out of my face.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Who's doing that? Who's doing that?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  You've never seen someone do that? They like, will be like, okay, I brought spaghetti. And it's in like a plastic bag. You've never, I'm like.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  You are defriended immediately.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  I agree. I agree. I hate picnic food. I hate it. I don't want to go on a picnic.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  First of all, spaghetti is not a picnic food.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  I also think so. I think so too. But there are people that have been like, I brought spaghetti.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  You're like, you brought the one thing you had in your refrigerator to bring an offering.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  I hate potlucks. I hate potlucks.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  I don't want a hodgepodge of what everybody thinks is good.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  What is fun about that?

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Let's pick a cuisine and stick to it.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Okay, I understand your enthusiasm around this, like you don't want to do the tour around the world of food.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I would if it was made by one person. Or like, you know what I mean? Like, when everyone's like, I brought the, no.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  No, and I hate picnics. But you know what this is a perfect segue into?

• 45:17Speaker 02

  Can't wait.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Therapist.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  As you can tell, I get very angry about certain things. What are you therapist about today?

• 45:25Speaker 02

  I'm pretty therapist about my, my post nasal drip situation, my, my cough. But I was thinking about this and I was like, well, I'm pretty pissed about a lot of things. Right now, I'm really pissed about getting gray hairs.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  I don't see a single gray.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  It's happening. It's happening. It's crazy.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  For the first time ever, it's happening?

• 45:47Speaker 02

  Uh, no, like, so when you're pregnant, you go through like lots of hormonal changes really fast, right? So I started to notice like, oh, that's so weird, but I was like, just because I'm pregnant. Well, now I haven't been pregnant for like seventeen, eighteen months. And these little babies are popping up and it's crazy and I'm just not ready. I just don't like feel ready. And it happens. I can't wait for you to call me one day and tell me it happens.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  So I actually found a gray this summer.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  And what did you do? Did you yank it out?

• 46:17Speaker 01

  I freaked the fuck out. I'm 25. I'm literally, I was, I was on vacation. I woke up and I was taking a selfie and I was like, wait, something looked really off.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Really shiny?

• 46:28Speaker 01

  And it was just, and I turned the camera and it was a gray hair.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  It was the craziest thing.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  Did you pull it out?

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Of course, I ripped it out of my hair. It was like a few.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  A few?

• 46:37Speaker 01

  And I was like, it's because I'm so stressed out all the time. I know that's what it is. It must be what it is.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  It's like sabotaging, like nothing about me feels ready for that at all. And like, eventually when I feel like I'm like 45, like I think I'd be down. I'm cool with like having that and being like not, there's not one part of me that ever wants to be 25 again. Like, like, I just, I hope you're having the time of your life, but like I did it, I'm good.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  I, no, no part of me wants to be a different age.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  Did you enjoy your twenties?

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Like, could you imagine you having a baby a year ago?

• 47:12Speaker 01

  No, of course not.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  Um, I think going back to like our previous conversations about like touring and having so much at a young age, right? A lot of excitement, a lot of success, a lot of all those shiny things.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Once that got old, I was like so ready for something to be like tangible in mind. Like, I really was ready to have a baby. And I always knew I wanted to be a young mom. So, as quickly as that like came about and I felt ready for it, I didn't know anyone that had babies. None of my friends had kids. I had to like, one, be me and then go like put myself out there in people, groups of people that I didn't know to like find motherhood friends and like learn about how to be a mom and exist in that like capacity.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  So, and then I also got a divorce in my twenties. So like I had a lot of fun and I had a lot, I felt like I was like trudging or floating. Like, it was like a very weird combination of an experience for my twenties. But yes, I had fun.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  So you said you didn't know any other people that were moms? So like, and I feel like a lot of people don't know, like, not only is having the kid hard and taking care of the kid, but then mentally, how you are is hard as well. Like, did you struggle at all with like not being able to like find other people that were experiencing like having a kid and raising a kid? And what was that like for you?

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, learning how to nurse a baby was like nuts. That's always like, I feel like, um, I feel like

• 48:41Speaker 02

  having a baby, there's always like a cross to bear. Like, and it's, you're gonna like struggle either getting pregnant, staying pregnant, nursing or in like labor or something. There's like gonna be one crazy thing that you didn't expect to happen. For me, it's always nursing. It's just hard. It doesn't come easy to me. It's like this pressure of this thing that you're supposed to be really good at and it's, it's supposed to just all happen and like you feed your baby and it's like no big deal. And it's like, that is not how it goes down. It's like painful, it's uncomfortable.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  Like, I don't know, it was just, it's every single time it was hard for me and it was like this thing I wanted to be really good at. Um, but that was hard and then yeah, finding your place in your friend group again, once your priorities like changed to be your baby. And you know, everybody's still like going out or just doesn't have those like, I mean, there's not much more that's

• 49:41Speaker 02

  a bigger responsibility than taking care of a human life, you know what I mean? It was like this really big thing. So, um, yeah, but that was so long ago. I honestly can't remember the like big moments that were

• 49:55Speaker 02

  that were a struggle, but I know that it was there and it happened, but I found my community and put myself out there and like figured that all out, but um, but then yeah, it was like being single and being a mom and I was still in my twenties.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  Um, which would like gave me this sense of empowerment, but also this sense of like,

• 50:15Speaker 02

  like it's weird to be single and be a mom and be me, you know?

• 50:19Speaker 01

  You just had your fourth kid and do you, when you think about your fourth pregnancy and your first pregnancy, was there certain things like you were so anxious about your first pregnancy? That you were like, oh my God, I can't believe I was so anxious about that or I was so scared to do that or I was like, was there, is there stuff that you learned along the way throughout um, different pregnancies?

• 50:41Speaker 02

  There's just an ease that comes around with each like subsequent one where you're just like, you know this, you know that this thing happens, you know, these feelings, you know, it's temporary. I think that's the biggest thing for me is like, I'm such a, I'm a pretty impatient person. So I want things like this, this, this, this, this, and um, and you can't rush that process. You have no control over it. And so that's like the hard, the hard thing for me. But you just realize after you do it a few times, you're like, oh yeah, this thing happens. My body's gonna change. My,

• 51:20Speaker 02

  this feels like this and you know, it's, you realize it's a blip in like your whole life's journey. It's, it's really like a snapshot in time and it's, and it's quick and it's fleeting and there's like beauty in it and, and you know, also like hardships and.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Bittersweetness.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Do you want to get into the tell me what's wrongs?

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Okay, so do you know what?

• 51:47Speaker 02

  I'm so excited about the tell me what's wrongs.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Really?

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Wait, you know about the tell me what's wrongs?

• 51:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Okay. I've been on three dates with this man from Hinge and he has not complimented me once. He was affectionate in bed, but not when we were talk- not when we're just talking to each other. I want him to compliment me, but I don't want to ask for it. What should I do slash say?

• 52:08Speaker 02

  This is so, I really relate to this because I think that like,

• 52:14Speaker 02

  I don't, I'm not, I don't know if it's like my love language, but like, I don't,

• 52:20Speaker 02

  you gotta be able to like, compliment in person and like face to face in like a normal setting, not just like in a, in a, in a bed setting. You know what I mean? Like,

• 52:29Speaker 01

  I struggle with this as well.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  I feel like if you've had three dates, that's a lot of time with someone, don't you?

• 52:36Speaker 01

  Yes, I completely agree. I really struggle with like looking someone in the eye and being like, you look so good. I like taking myself seriously. Like I get so uncomfortable.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  It's like you have to be in the, the bedroom to like pull or like,

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  I think maybe he's just like awkward. But I think honestly, I think her saying something, like if somebody said that to me, I'd be like, okay, then I feel less awkward.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  I'm curious to know if she's complimenting him. You know what I mean? If she's complimenting him, it opens the door for him to be able to do the same.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Okay, great point.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Right?

• 53:10Speaker 01

  I don't take compliments.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  But also if she's like serious enough about him, then she could just be like,

• 53:15Speaker 02

  hey, like this is something that I kind of need. But also it sucks to ask for what you need. You're like, can't you just read my mind? Don't you just know what I need?

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:23Speaker 02

  I get in this thing with my husband too. I love to tell him, he forgot to tell me he loves me and he's like, what? You're crazy. And I'm like, I said it first today and yesterday and the day before. And he's like, you're absolutely nuts.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Do you remember the first time you guys said I love you?

• 53:36Speaker 02

  Yes, it was at Poché. Have you ever been there?

• 53:38Speaker 01

  I have been to Poché, the salmon.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Salmon's the best.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Best?

• 53:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  And he said, who said it? You said it or he said it?

• 53:44Speaker 02

  He drew it on the table.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Shut up.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I looked down and I was like, huh. I know, he's so cute.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  He's the best.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  He's the best.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  What?

• 53:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, he drew it on the table.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  He drew I Love You in crayon?

• 53:59Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, in crayon.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  I have it, I have it somewhere. I ripped it off the table and brought it with me. I was like, you're coming with me.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  And were you like, I love you too?

• 54:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I could cry.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  I very much loved him too. I was very excited.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Did you get the salmon?

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Always.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  But also, don't sleep on the snapper.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  I've never had it.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to get the snapper, because I get tired of the salmon.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  Okay, I was gonna say, I'm tired of the salmon.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Go with the snapper, babe.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Should we go to Pachet?

• 54:27Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  We don't have to.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  I could tell you I love you for the first time with a crayon.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Would you?

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Okay, cool. I really want that.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  I would love to meet you at Pachet.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Don't play with me.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  But we're drinking some wine.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  I would happily drink some wine.

• 54:41Speaker 02

  You can get flushed, I won't like judge you.

• 54:42Speaker 01

  I'll be a tomato. But yes, I will happily do that. I have been feeling isolated from my life and friends for about a year now, and I want to be more social again. However, I'm so scared and mad that none of my friends checked in on me or even asked to hang out, because I just haven't been a part of any social scene recently. I want new friends, but I'm scared to lose my old ones. What do I do?

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Oof.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Right?

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a lot.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Well, I think that if they were your friends only for social settings, they weren't your friends.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  Which is something I learned in COVID.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  I think this goes back to my theme of like, not wanting to be in my twenties again, because social circles are just more complicated, you know? Friendships are like, a little more fickle, it seems, when you're younger.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  And like, going out and like, I don't know, people's needs are like, at the forefront of their...

• 55:39Speaker 02

  Like, what they want to do is in the forefront, you know? So I don't know how old this person is, but yeah, if no one checked in on you when you were having a season of your life, where you were like, I need to be a little more like insular, then that's not a good friend.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  It's a bad friend.

• 55:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. This is gonna sound so dorky and mom-like, but... Um, our nanny is the cutest. I'm obsessed with her and she's like twenty five and she goes and she'll like join a pickleball group or like you just have to like find some things that you like to do and go like join a group and it will expand your life instead of looking for all the same things in the same places.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  I couldn't agree more. My roommate is a runner and she joined Venice Run Club. Met so many people she loves through running.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  It's just like.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  And then there's like a common.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  Red.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  When I worked in music, I was very passionate about working there and I met so many people like coworkers that became very a huge part of my life and like that was my interest. My job was my interest and that obviously isn't the same for any everyone but like when I had that because I was in school, I was like I had this internship at that became my full-time job, but when I had that outside interest, it became everything to me and I met so many people and we met at my music job and like everything. Yeah. And I think just having that outside interest is crucial. I think it's just harder in college and I feel like she might be in college.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  Right, I know because your your world is like right there in front of you and it's hard to like get out of that.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  It's so hard like so like in college, what I felt was like every it's just like people who psychologists in like high school is they're lying. It's the same shit like everything feels so important in the moment. And so that's why these people are like not speaking to you and they're going out all the time because in the moment that night out to them is the most important thing.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I I think I was trying to say that before where it's like what you want is right in front of you at that time of your life, right? Like just the your one night's plans is everything to you.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  And and and when you zoom out of that, it's so silly, but that's what like growing up is like I I try to tell my son that when when like he has a thing with a friend or whatever, I'm like this feels like everything to you right now. I I want you to know that I'm like honoring that feeling because I understand. But it's just gonna go away next week or like in two weeks, it's gonna be like the next thing and but it just feels so big.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  Do you are there moments that you like look back in your twenties and teens and you're like, oh, my God, in that moment? I thought this was the end and the worst thing to ever happen and now I'm like it doesn't even matter and I wish I could tell myself that. Like, do you have those moments as well?

• 58:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, my gosh, of course. I can't. I mean, if you really wanted to, I could I could pinpoint a few, but yeah, for sure.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  What's one?

• 58:27Speaker 02

  I mean, I think like a really silly one was, I think just because I like grew up in the time of like scandal and like them wanting to like catch you doing something. Everybody wanted to catch me doing something bad. And I remember I was crossing the street with my friend Marco and I was in front of Kitson and it was like when jelly bags were cool, like see-through jelly bags. And a paparazzi took a picture of me and was like, there's a condom in her bag. And I don't know if it was a condom or like a valet ticket. It was a square piece of paper in my bag. And all of a sudden, I got a phone call from my mom and she was like, is there a condom in your bag? And blah, blah, blah. It was like this. And I just remember feeling like, I'm in trouble. I'm caught. I did something bad. And I was just like, a normal aged-

• 59:11Speaker 01

  How old were you?

• 59:12Speaker 02

  I think I was like seventeen or something like, I'm like, I don't know if it was a condom. I think I'm being safe.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  You know what, though? I actually, when I, when, so there's accounts like Getty Image Fan Club, there's like things that post like throwbacks like that. Apparently that was photoshopped.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  Okay, so that's what I'm saying. I can't recall. I just remember getting the phone call from my mom and being like, shit. You know, like I was a normal teenager. Like I did normal things. And so I think that like-

• 59:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  I don't recall at all, but I remember that being a big deal.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Was trusting people hard for you back in that day? Cause like people would like go to the press and stuff. Cause like that's when like tabloids were everything, you know, and like blogs were everything.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Was like, did you have to learn who to trust at like an early age?

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was a few people that I was like, oh, I think that person's not trustworthy.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  Um, I've always had a really good gauge of people. I think it's like a, a little talent that I have. Like I, I have really good friends and I, it doesn't take me long to like figure someone out and, or just like figure out that someone's not for me, you know? So I didn't run in like a huge group of celebs and stuff. And I think that was also very-

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  Good for my health back then.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  I wasn't like spilling out the clubs with like other teen stars and stuff.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Right. Did you ever like?

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  Spill out the club? Sure did.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  Was it fun? Like what was clubbing culture like back then?

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  So fun. No phones. Yeah. Yeah, I remember like a lot of the times people would like run me out the back door because like police would be like coming in.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  It'd be like underage.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  But it was just fun. Like it was way. We used to spend three hours getting ready to go out.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Stop.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  Can you imagine?

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  And we wouldn't go out until like midnight. I know.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  We go out at 8pm now.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  I know, which is dreamy for me if I ever have to go out, but.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Not for me.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  I was so responsible though. If I had like something to do the next day, I would still be up at like 7:30, like tidying my house.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  Like a freak.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  Would like in the day, so like there was no Uber back then. Would you like call a cab or have a DD?

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  Yes. Yes. Call a cab.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  And so the cabs would like wait in the parking lots of like the like Ladue or like. Yeah. Area or whatever the club was.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  And what like?

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you'd have to just like get in the car and it would be like mobs of like.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Paparazzi?

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  And they would, would they like find you back outside as well?

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  Honestly, I might pay a lot of money to have one of those nights and just like try to relive the feeling.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  Was it like I feel like a movie star? I mean, you were a movie star, but.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  No, I think I was like trying to be like.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  Just act normal. Just look normal.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Right. Like even if you were drunk.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  Don't let him catch you in a blink.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Right, right, right. And then would you, was it like sometimes you would go out and then you would wake up the next day and all the tabloids, like you'd walk past a tabloid and you would see yourself?

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Um, not quite that quick turnaround, but like on Perez Hilton or something. Yeah. You could have like a dick drawn on your face or something, you know, by him.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, babe.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  He would draw dicks on people's faces?

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. You don't know this? Do you guys know this? You're all babies.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  Wait, no, I knew he like drew stuff, but I didn't know he was that vulgar.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  And he just didn't, he just ripped it and didn't care?

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Damn. Dude, did you let yourself get like offended by that or were you like, this is fucking stupid?

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  I think it was a it depended on the day.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  Like, sometimes you were like loved and sometimes you weren't.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  I think that this time around, I like a little bit bracing for that element because it's so nice to see the excitement, you know? But I just don't want to put too much weight on it because things change with like the tides so fast. Um, and and everybody has a platform to make a a a statement or a comment and um, so it feels a little unhinged.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  I agree. And what I was gonna ask you, what I was so excited to talk to you about was like, what do you think the difference is? In celebrity culture back then versus now in terms of like?

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  Oh, I have a big one.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  Now you can curate your entire life how you want people to see it. You couldn't do that back then. So now people have like TikTok, Instagram, and you can like curate how exactly what you want people to see and know. And back then, people just assumed and it was like. You did. You didn't get to make up your own narrative like you do now.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  And you can like also quickly respond to things.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  And just be like, no, yes, no.

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Like, was there ever times where you were like wanting to respond to stuff and you just like couldn't because you didn't have the platform to do so? Like, you didn't have like the you didn't have like a blog to be like, this isn't true or like?

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, but people like you still really can't.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Do that now. Like, you can say it, but people are gonna like assume what they want, right? Or like, there's endless like TikTok people.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Digging.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  A journey of whatever, you know?

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  A normal sentence?

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  Exactly correct.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  That just like made my life, by the way, in ways like Ladue. Oh, my God. Like, I could die.

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  Bottle service at Ladue?

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Stop!

• 1:04:41Speaker 02

  Dancing on tables?

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Was it just amazing?

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  The the music was so fun. That's what I used to remember. Oh, my God, like, like, like 50 Cent and like Nelly and like, you know, like. It was like early 2000s. So it was like, like Ashanti.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Right. And once you were in the club, was it kind of like this sacred space? Because there wasn't camera phones and there was nothing. So it was like, we are, we can do whatever we want.

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you'd be like, oh, that's that person's table. That's that person's table. And then like, yeah, it was, it was really funny.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  I think I would pay.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Two million dollars. Two million dollars flat for one night like that. Like, take me back in time. Have me be like.

• 1:05:24Speaker 02

  We're going to Hyde.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Stop. Like, what was it like at the OG location?

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  Okay, I was just at dance class with my daughter.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  And this, I was talking to this old neighbor that I used to have. And she was talking to this friend of hers and she's like, I have to tell you. I was like, you are so familiar to me. I can't get over it. Like, I know I know you from somewhere.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  She was like, I don't. And she was like, I was the head, head, um, server at Hyde. And I was like, I'm dead on the floor. I was like, the original Hyde? And she was like, yes. And I was like, I can't, I can't with you. This is the best.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  And Hyde was like the.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  Hyde was the spot.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  And it was just like, would you, what was the night?

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  It was this big.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was about to say, it was very small, right?

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  It was this big, yes.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  And what nights of the week were you like, Hyde night?

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  I can't really remember, but never a weekend.

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  Obsessed. You know that doesn't happen anymore. We don't, we don't do that anymore.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  I feel like it was Thursday.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  I'm sure it was. And life was more fun.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Wow. How do I kindly tell my friend to shut the fuck up about her new boyfriend? I was hanging out with her and a few of my friends and she was on FaceTime with him the whole time. Oh, she's just excited. I tried to tell her to get off and she just ignored me. That's annoying. Her whole entire personality is her boyfriend now and I don't know what to do. Do I drop her? No. Or tell her to drop her boyfriend? Literally neither.

• 1:06:45Speaker 02

  You can't ask her to make that choice.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Just be like, you are, you have boyfriend goggles on.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  And like, open your eyes, touch grass.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  Right. Touch grass, go ground, take your shoes off.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Take, but I know, the reason I'm so empathetic is because I know that when, when I get a boyfriend, I will be that way.

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  You will.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  Don't you agree? Like it's going to consume me. I know that.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  I feel, I feel for her.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  Cause that sucks and that's annoying and you like, yeah, I feel like you need to just let her, let her be excited and get that like initial stuff out of the way, that initial excitement, you know what I mean?

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  She'll come back to you.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  She'll, oh, they always do.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  But the more annoyed you act, like.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  You're gonna push her away.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  You kind of just have to let your friend do it and just be there for your friend.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  But also you can pull back from your friend a little bit if like, if every time you guys are hanging out, she's just on FaceTime with her boyfriend, I'd be like,

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Right, I'm gonna leave.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  I'll see you later.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  And show her what it's like without you a little and then she'll be like,

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  Ooh!

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  Why are you hanging up with me? And then it's like, well, you're always on the phone with your fucking boyfriend all the time.

• 1:07:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. Be like, I miss you. I think if you come, come like with your heart facing forward and you're just like, I miss you. And like every time we hang out, I don't want to also be hanging out with your boyfriend on FaceTime.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  Let's have some one-on-one time, please. Love you so much. Thank you.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  Have you ever had a friend that you're like, I hate your boyfriend so fucking much? And like, it was like, cause, and you're like, how do I be a good friend to you and still hate your boyfriend?

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  And how do you?

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  One of my best friends. He, he actually came, oh.

• 1:08:23Speaker 02

  He just like hit me that like, this is gonna be it in the world.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  Do you wanna?

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  He came, no, no, he came, he came to a holiday at our house.

• 1:08:32Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  And he had to leave. And as he like left, I like, put my door on the back and I was like, no, absolutely not. No, it's over. It's done. Like, I hate the way he speaks to you. I hate the way he talks to you. You are not, you around him, like, absolutely no. And she was like, she basically like, was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. You're right. You're right. She was like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I was like, whoa, that was just the most insane, crazy. I understand, it's not really happened to me before, but I understand how people could get wrapped in something like super unhealthy.

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  Because of like an initial like spark that feels really good, you know?

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  Wow, yeah.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  But yeah, that has happened and it's strange.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  You handled it well, though. No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  I am, I'm like, very direct.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  Are you the one in the friend group that's like, are you like the mom of the friend group?

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Do you feel like you help take care of everyone else and like, you're the one that they come to with problems?

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  Um, I think that a lot of us hold that space for each other, like to where we could come with problems, but I'm just very direct. So maybe a little bit too much sometimes.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  What's your star sign?

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  I'm a Libra.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  I need like balance.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Right. You're very peaceful. You're non, like you don't fight with people.

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  I don't like to fight with people, but I don't like to like have like a rub with someone or or something and then like not work through it. That drives me crazy. It like infiltrates every aspect of my life.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  So I need to like handle my shit.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  I I fighting with like friends is like actually the worst feeling, I think, of all time.

• 1:10:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Of all time.

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  And the only thing that tops it is a friendship breakup. I think it is. I've never had like a real breakup, so I wouldn't know, but like I I just think they're the worst feelings on planet earth.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, a friendship breakup could like possibly be worse than a breakup breakup.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  Too. I mean, I've never had a breakup breakup, but I'm I think so too.

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Do you?

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  They both suck.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Suck. And then like I suck too sometimes.

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  You know, it's like a mixture of just that. Do you remember like at what age you like looked around your friend group and you were like, okay, I feel stable in my friend group and my friends and my love life and my social life? Do you remember like what when you felt that?

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  Probably right around my 30th birthday. Like my my now husband came back into my life at that time. And I remember looking around the table at my 30th birthday and we were like, we had dated before but broken up and gotten back together and dated and broken up and got back together. And I remember looking around the table at my 30th birthday and being like, like almost wanting to cry, but I was having like, it just like a little private moment of like how grateful I was to see the faces that were there and like all that we had been through. Because a lot of like, it was just a mixture of a, you know, really long standing, deep relationships, like 17 year friendships, 20 year friendships.

• 1:11:35Speaker 02

  And then, you know, and also new faces and like new, new friends. So old and new, whatever. I'm I don't know what I'm trying to say. It just felt really good. And I was like, I'm on a good path. Like, sometimes you have to like friend cleanse. It's okay to edit.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  It's okay.

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. But you feel like a bad person when you're doing it because you're like,

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  I.

• 1:11:53Speaker 02

  Why am I sitting in the seat that I get to go?

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  But also, like, you feel like.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Editing looks like sometimes it will take something like not showing up to like something that they will think is like very important, like, do you know what I mean? Like missing something to like be like the we're, things are gonna be different with us now. Like this is, I don't wanna show up for you in this sense.

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  And you don't show up for them in that sense.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  And you feel like a piece of shit, but it is what you need to do and you know it's what you need to do.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. So the big boy way to have that conversation is to like have the conversation before you just don't show up for them and be like.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  I, I had to, I had to do that once and I was like, one, you just have to eat, you, you have to like, you have to just like own it and be like, I can't show up for you in this capacity right now. It feels overwhelming and blah, blah, blah. Like I need some space and you know, I've had to do it a few times and it's like, I just, I always want my side of the street to be clean. You know what I mean? I don't wanna make someone feel bad.

• 1:12:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:55Speaker 02

  By like my actions, I'd rather have a conversation about it.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  I like really struggle with confrontation like that. I am like the least, I, there are certain people in my life that I can like say how I'm feeling too. There's like two or three people, her being one of them. And when I do say it, like we have these great conversations.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  But I really struggle in other senses.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  Getting there is like painful.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  It's painful, it's painful. It really is hard. I would consider my sister-in-law one of my best friends. My issue is that her and my best friend since high school hate each other. My sister-in-law seems to keep her issues to herself for the most part, but my friend can never hold back from telling me how she feels about her. I love them both so much, but it feels so immature. I am over it. What do I do?

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  I'm so invested in that.

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  Whoa, okay. Her sister-in-law, so married to her brother.

• 1:13:50Speaker 01

  Yes, her, her sister-in-law married to her.

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  Is one of her best friends, but her best friend and her sister-in-law hate each other.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  Hate each other, like from a while ago. Like have you ever seen that movie You Again?

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  Basically, it's about this girl is getting married and her sister-in-law, they've like hated each other since like they were little. And I don't remember how that movie ends or how they get through it, but that's what I'm thinking about while I hear this question.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  I feel like the problem is with the friend.

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Right, cuz the sister-in-law is like, all good on my end.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. She's making it easy for her, which is nice and classy because they're in the same family together. Um, I feel like you gotta talk to your friend and be like, I love you both, like, I want you both in my life, but you're making this really hard for me. Can you find a way?

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  And what if she's like, you don't get it, like?

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  I wonder what it's about.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  Like, what? We need more info.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  If you're seeing this, DM me with more info, like, I will catch it. I need to know.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  Did they date the same person?

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  Like.

• 1:14:50Speaker 02

  But how is her best friend asking her to choose between basically family now?

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  See, that's crazy.

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  That, to me, is super selfish. And I agree with you in the sense that I do feel like it is on the friend. I feel it. It's just like a gut feeling I have where it's like that friend is being selfish. And maybe that, oh my god, it's like giving bridesmaids. Have you seen the movie Bridesmaids?

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  Um, yeah.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, that's what it's giving.

• 1:15:13Speaker 02

  Have I seen Bridesmaids?

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Like, that's what it's giving. It's like, she feels, maybe she feels like she's losing you.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  And that's, and she's holding on to this drama as a way to hold on to you.

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  You can't, you don't need to, like, be best friends with everyone in the group. You just have to be able to be like.

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  Civil.

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  Civil.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  I was diagnosed with OCD at 25. Now that I'm getting the help, I need to manage my OCD. I find myself feeling resentful towards my parents for not helping me when I was younger. I actually feel the same way. Sorry. They always joked and would say things like, you're so OCD, but never took it seriously. I was wondering if this is something you experienced and was hoping for some advice based on your journey with OCD. I have really bad OCD, which is why they're asking that. Did you ever struggle with anything like that, or? My, like, my, were your parents, like, like, oh, like, was therapy normal for you in your family, or was it taboo?

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  Taboo.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  Okay. And did you ever feel resentful, like this person feels, or were you like, that's just how they were, you know, cuz like?

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  Of course. I think every kid feels resentful of their parents. I think you can have the best parents in the world and you feel resentful somehow, some way.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  Which is just like the, the course. You know what I mean? Um, I think that you have to take this one, but also I will just say. It's, it's.

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  Not in defending the parents, but like, that's just the way it was back then. Nobody was having these conversations. There weren't these words to like identify

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  anxiety and these like conditions and not like so much course of action to like deal with them. And it wasn't normal to put your kids in therapy and it wasn't, you know what I mean? So I feel a little bad for the parents, but also bad for the kids because they, they, they need support and they need, honestly, I feel like I sometimes do it with my daughter and I'm like, oh my God, Banks, like you're, like she, she really struggles with her hair and needing her hair to be like perfect and I have to do it like three times a morning and maybe that's like a little form of OCD, I'm not sure, but I need to like figure out my conversation with her around it because I notice that if we don't acknowledge it, it gets bigger and worse.

• 1:17:16Speaker 01

  So that's what happened with me. So the issue with my OCD was that my dad was very against medication and I

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  And you needed it.

• 1:17:24Speaker 01

  I desperately needed it, like desperately, desperately needed it. And I don't have resentment towards that because to him, everyone being on Prozac wasn't normal

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  growing up. That wasn't like, everyone's not on Prozac. Now it's very normal for everyone to be on like antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds because it is very helpful and it's still, we'll still have conversations where he still thinks I shouldn't be on it.

• 1:17:47Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's hard for that generation to think that there's like actual imbalances in their children's brains.

• 1:17:52Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  They don't think it's an imbalance. They think it's a problem.

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  And they think it's like, he would always be like, well, just stop, just stop, just stop, which would obviously lead to me like retreating inwards with it and it getting worse and worse and worse and worse. And I don't have resentment, but yeah, I do wish that I had been able to get on medication earlier. What I like to remind myself in when I feel moments like that is I try to like remind myself what I'm grateful for in my life right now and know that if I didn't have any of that, I wouldn't be here talking to you right now.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  You know, like that's what I remind myself. It's just like little things like that.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  Also, first of all, that was a very sweet thing to say.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  But I also have to say that you and this generation being so forthcoming about their struggles in their life is giving such a

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  Comforting space for people that you know aren't on TV or aren't they're they're they're listening and they're like in the midst of trying to figure out their life and it's it's it's so simple to say but it's them not feeling alone you know what I mean and even just one generation ago it was really tough for people to talk about their problems and their imbalances or whatever it may be so um

• 1:19:12Speaker 02

  I'm really happy that you went through a similar similar struggle as him and you know can talk about it

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  Yeah of course I think it's like it's I feel like with every generation it gets more open so like it was more open than the last but the last was more open than the one before that and I think like in 10 years we're gonna look back at this generation and be like it's crazy that we didn't talk about X Y and Z so I think it's just about like learning and everyone's learning and everyone's I think one thing the phones have been helpful for is like people find these spaces online where they're like oh this other person's feeling the same way as me when I had OCD as a kid the only thing I saw the first thing I ever saw that I was like oh my god I have that do you remember Dr. Drew

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  Yeah

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  I select OCD rehab with Dr. Drew on VH1

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  Oh my god

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  Was the only thing I'd ever seen that I was like oh my god that's what I have and so that was the only way so I give a lot of grace to like my parents and people because no one knew no one knew like what that was and now there's online communities and people on TikTok I learned stuff about OCD on TikTok all the time so I think as time goes on it'll be better and better and better but like you know but for your kids that are growing up now like hopefully they're gonna be so comfortable speaking about whatever

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  Yeah

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  They feel because the world around them is so comfortable speaking about it which is what I hope at least

• 1:20:30Speaker 02

  Same

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  Yeah and it's so good that you're even like you when you're like doing the hair three times and you're like wait like you have that thought that used to never be a thought like when I used to have to like go back and like do things like four times or whatever like my dad would be like what the fuck are you doing

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  Yeah it's hard because your life is busy and you're as a parent you just have endless things to think about like you're you're you're constantly like thinking about how to get through the day and how to get everybody what they need and where they need to be and all the things you know what I mean and then this like bump in the road happens and it's like frustrating but it's gotta be even more frustrating for her

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  Right that's really like amazing that you recognize that Like amazing. Like, really, that's awesome.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  Before I let you go, I do want to talk about your music video, which is your first music video in like 10 years.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  What, so can you tell us anything about that? The process behind it, what's it like?

• 1:21:28Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. Okay, so I worked with an amazing video director. Her name's Lauren Dunn.

• 1:21:37Speaker 02

  And we had a ton of fun. I mean, it was one of those crazy days where you're like guerrilla shooting, where you're just like, oh, my God, there's not a single minute of the day to break.

• 1:21:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:48Speaker 02

  But the concept is like quite simple. And I think when you listen to the song, you'll see the the journey of the two me's meeting, I guess. You know, the girl who kind of had an experience and then me now watching her. And I don't want to say there's like satire involved. It's really just like storytelling and like meeting, meeting yourself, where you landed and kind of like looking back on an experience and like tying a little bow around it and being like, okay. And then there's like butterflies that are big themes in my life since Metamorphosis.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  And there's a little sweet butterfly moment in the video, which I really love because it's just,

• 1:22:41Speaker 02

  I feel like being where I am now, it's really nice to like send love back to yourself, you know, that's gone through whatever it's taken you to get wherever you are.

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  And so I like all those little nods and those little.

• 1:22:59Speaker 02

  Like gifts that you can send back to yourself to be like, hey, like it was cool we got here.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  That is really beautiful. That is really beautiful.

• 1:23:08Speaker 02

  Thank you. I mean, by the way, it's filled with like amazing lighting and glam and dancing and sparkles and all the, all the fun things. Like she did some really cool camera trickery that I don't understand. But you know, the concept was, was just that and I really loved it.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  But I think the idea of sending love to your younger self is something my therapist tells me all the time and I never listened to her. But you saying that just now like really resonated with me.

• 1:23:35Speaker 02

  We're all so busy and I think we're also used to like recovering quickly from anything that happens to us in our lives because life goes by so fast. So to just like nod to it and remember it and like give it a little bit of grace is important. And it could be with like the big things or the small things.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  I'm really excited to see it.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  And I'm really excited for everyone to hear my shirt because it's fucking amazing. And I can't wait to like.

• 1:23:56Speaker 02

  So happy you love it.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  Listen to it on streaming services. It's like, oh, it's so good. I'm like playing the beat drop in my head right now. It's so good.

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  That makes me so happy. Thank you so much.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  I'm sending it to you today so you can just.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  Please listen, just listen to it. Also obsessed with your little Easter egg moment for your birthday post. I caught that. I caught that.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  Justin, did you hear that? He caught that.

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  I caught the Easter egg. So Hillary, what did we learn today?

• 1:24:27Speaker 02

  We learned that I have a cough.

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  We've learned that you have a cough.

• 1:24:30Speaker 02

  A tickle in my throat.

• 1:24:34Speaker 02

  What did you learn today?

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  I learned on the surface level that pop star Hilary Duff is back. And like really, really, really back. And I'm really so excited for everyone to hear the new music and experience what I've been able to experience. And I also learned.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  That talking to you and you being like, I don't remember some of this shit. I was 14, like, and then you being like, do you remember your stuff at 14? It's like, oh, just because what you were doing was different than me, doesn't mean that like we both weren't kids and we both don't have like universal feelings of just like forgetting some shit that happened when we were 15.

• 1:25:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  Like, just because your stuff is more immortalized and like, like, online and in video, it doesn't make it any easier to remember. And I think that's what I learned today.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:32Speaker 02

  You said it nicely. Sometimes I can't quite always figure that out, but you said it nicely.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's what I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense that she doesn't remember what that was like. She was 15. I don't remember my day to day of 15 at all.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  Okay, I learned today that I love having conversations like this. It's so nice to connect. Like, I know we met before, but we don't really know each other that well. And you're just a gem. And it's so like, it's so nice to just have a conversation that takes like lots of trails and it's like, human connection is what this whole experience is about. And so, um, I loved it.

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  You had a good time?

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  I mean, when you went to go P I looked at Louise and I said, this has been a dream come true. Like, this has been so fun.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  Really, truly.

• 1:26:22Speaker 02

  I'm, I was like, so excited to come on.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  I mean, I was so excited to have you. We have to do it again.

• 1:26:29Speaker 02

  I would love to.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:26:30Speaker 02

  Anytime. You're the cutest.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  Love you. I'm gonna write, I love you at Pache.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  We're gonna have a Pache date.

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  We have to have a P- and I'll get the.

• 1:26:37Speaker 02

  Snapper.

• 1:26:38Speaker 01

  Snapper.

• 1:26:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:26:39Speaker 01

  Well, Hillary, thank you for coming on the show.

• 1:26:41Speaker 02

  Anytime.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  Do you want to give a little bye pussies?

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  Bye pussies. Thanks for having me.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  What? This is the finale?

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  You're the season finale. I totally forgot.

• 1:26:50Speaker 02

  That is an honor. I'm dead.

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  This is the season finale.

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  The finale pussies?

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  Yes, this is, this is it. This, what a season. This has been, this has been crazy.

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  Do you get a nice, long break?

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  I get like a few, a few months off. I think I'm gonna take a few months and.

• 1:27:06Speaker 02

  Good for you.

• 1:27:06Speaker 01

  Do my work on other shit and.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  Wish we could go to Ladue.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Don't, seriously, I told you I'd pay $2 million and I meant, and I meant it. You were the most incredible season finale. Like, once we came to the conclusion that you were gonna be the season finale, it was like a puzzle piece fit. And it just has been even more better than I thought it would be. And I thought it was gonna be amazing. And I love you. So, thank you. See you next season, pussies.

• 1:27:46Speaker 03

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