Pod Insights The Why Files: Operation Podcast The Seventh Experiment: Lacerta Reveals the Truth of our Creation About this episode In December 1999, Sweden's most notorious UFO skeptic sat down for an interview that would challenge everything he believed. Ole K. had spent his career exposing hoaxes and debunking paranormal claims. The being who called herself Lacerta revealed an underground civilization that had existed alongside humanity for millions of years. She explained humanity's true origins as a series of genetic experiments and warned of the imminent return of our creators. From the mysteries of Derinkuyu to the truth about the dinosaurs' extinction, this story connects ancient mysteries to modern questions about human consciousness and evolution.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:32 AJ Gentile? On December 16, 1999, three things happened in Ol' K's office. His pencil levitated, his coffee froze solid, and the woman sitting across from him wasn't human. Ol' K had built his career debunking every alien story, every paranormal claim, every supernatural sighting. He'd seen every trick. He knew every technique. His articles had ruined careers and earned him a reputation as a tough professional skeptic. But now his pencil was floating above his desk. The being across from him called herself Lacerta. She told him how humanity was created and how it would end. And she could prove it. The world's most notorious UFO skeptic was about to understand why some stories can't be debunked.
1:24 AJ Gentile? Ol' K arrived early to set up his equipment. One camera, one tape recorder. That's all Lacerta allowed. Every hoaxer had rules. He didn't argue. He figured he'd be out in an hour. The story was obviously fake. Lacerta claimed to be from a race of beings living deep within the Earth.
1:40 Speaker 02 Ah, lizard.
1:41 AJ Gentile? Some say they're shape-shifters. They don't change shape. They change the way the human brain sees them.
1:45 Speaker 02 Lizard.
1:46 AJ Gentile? They're highly evolved and intelligent with extremely advanced technology. They are...
1:51 Speaker 02 Lizard.
1:52 AJ Gentile? Reptilians.
1:52 Speaker 02 Lizard people.
1:57 AJ Gentile? The Lacerta- files appeared online in the early 2000s. They're transcripts of two interviews, one from 1999 and one from 2000. A journalist known as Ol' K spoke with a female reptilian who calls herself Lacerta when she's with humans. Apparently, we can't pronounce her real name. And mispronouncing someone's name in her culture is offensive.
2:17 Speaker 02 Ah, this sounds like a millennial, is it, people? Uh, how old is she? Is she on TikTok?
2:22 AJ Gentile? She's 28 years old.
2:23 Speaker 02 Checks out.
2:24 AJ Gentile? She was around 5'5" and humanoid. Her skin was pale green with brown dots, and her eyes were larger than human eyes with vertical slits for pupils. And when she blinked, a transparent membrane slid sideways across her eyes. Her species is called the Tern. They lived beneath the earth for millions of years in vast cities carved from solid rock. I link to the full text, and you'll want to read it. But here's what matters. Lacerta knew things. Things about ancient cultures, quantum mechanics, computer science. She said humans didn't evolve. We were engineered by aliens who needed slaves.
2:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, new naki.
3:00 AJ Gentile? Right, they have many names.
3:05 Speaker 03 The beings you call the Elahem, we knew them as the Illagim. They needed workers. They found primitive apes and began their experiments. But you aren't the first attempt. You're the seventh.
3:18 Speaker 02 Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait, what? Humans are version seven?
3:21 AJ Gentile? Well, each version was an experiment. Create, test, destroy, then start again. The Illagim left Earth before finishing version seven. Now they're coming back to fix their mistake.
3:36 AJ Gentile? Lacerta's story began not with her species, but with ours. She said human evolution is a lie. We were created by aliens called the Illagim. They come from the star system we call Aldabarren.
3:47 Speaker 02 Oh, I, I, I thought the Death Star blew up, Aldabarren.
3:50 AJ Gentile? Aldabarren.
3:51 Speaker 02 What'd I say?
3:54 AJ Gentile? The Illagim arrived on Earth 1.5 million years ago to mine copper. This would require a large labor force. So they altered a primitive ape's genetics and created a new species to do the work. Version one was promising, but flawed. So they wiped it out and started again. And again. Lacerta says the evidence of these earlier versions is all around us. Archaeologists say the Great Pyramid of Giza was built around 2,500 B.C.
4:20 Speaker 02 Big news, it's way older than that.
4:22 AJ Gentile? Well, Lacerta agrees. The Egyptians didn't build the pyramids, they found them. The Great Pyramid was built 75,000 years ago by the fifth version of humanity. The underwater ruins near Bimini were built 16,000 years ago by the sixth version. Perfect angles cut into massive stone blocks using techniques we only mastered in the last century. The Illium accelerated our evolution. Look at our timeline. Two million years to improve a spear, then in a few thousand years, riding, electricity, landing a man on the moon.
4:54 Speaker 02 Well, that never happened. But you monkeys got to orbit. I'll get you there.
4:58 AJ Gentile? Fine. My point is, we went from hunter-gatherers to a spacefaring species in a fraction of the time it took to go from Homo habilis to Homo erectus.
5:07 Speaker 02 Yeah.
5:08 AJ Gentile? Stop it. Our DNA contains genes that don't match our ancestors. Dr. James Gates found error-correcting code embedded in human DNA, proof we were engineered and not evolved. Now, this is not a new concept. Almost every ancient culture tells the same creation story. Beings of light arrived in massive ships. They created humans, gave them knowledge, not from kindness. They needed intelligent slaves. But not too intelligent. That's why the destroyed versions five and six. Millions died because they asked too many questions.
5:39 Speaker 02 How'd they whack a whole planet?
5:41 AJ Gentile? Earthquakes, volcanoes, sometimes floods.
5:44 Speaker 02 Ah, younger, driest flood.
5:47 AJ Gentile? That was the last reset. Every culture has a flood myth because it happened. Laserta expects the Illium to return and finish their work, and we have no way to stop them. We don't have the technology to fight, and there's nowhere to hide. We can't go underground. Underground belongs to the lizard.
6:37 AJ Gentile? The Darren Cuyu Underground City in Turkey is a puzzle. Eighteen levels deep, almost 300 feet below the surface. It has a ventilation system, a freshwater system. Acoustic chambers are tuned to specific frequencies. It was allegedly built with Bronze Age technology, but the truth is, nobody knows who built it or when.
6:56 Speaker 02 Darren Cuyu linked down in the old wash tub.
6:59 AJ Gentile? According to La Serta, Darren Cuyu isn't an ancient human city. It's an entrance to the Turan Civilization, a vast network of cities underground. Their main settlements are 14,000 feet below the earth's surface. And each city is about a mile and a half wide, carved into solid bedrock. At the center is the column, a 700-foot tower. It regulates climate, generates artificial sunlight, and manages the airflow.
7:24 Speaker 02 Oh, it's like a lizard, Alexa.
7:26 AJ Gentile? I guess so, yeah.
7:27 Speaker 02 Hey, Alexa!
7:28 AJ Gentile? No, no, don't do that.
7:29 Speaker 02 Hey, Alexa, write a dirty limerick about the crab kit.
7:33 AJ Gentile? Why did you do that? We have kids watching.
7:35 Speaker 02 Here, the crab kit.
7:38 AJ Gentile? The Hypogeeum in Malta has similar mysteries. Discovered in 1902, this underground structure also features unusual acoustic properties. How the huge stones were cut is still debated.
7:48 Speaker 02 Giants of Malta linked down in the old givel goblet.
7:53 AJ Gentile? Cave systems in China reveal extensive tunnels. South American myths describe vast underground networks. Geological surveys have detected hollow spaces deep beneath the surface, but our technology can't reach them. There is one place underground that our technology can reach that's raised a few questions. Geologists studying the Çikçulub Impact crater in the Yucatán Peninsula found layers of rock transformed by intense heat and pressure, but not from above, from below. According to La Serta, these aren't random formations. They're scars, evidence of a war. A war for copper.
8:35 AJ Gentile? We know what killed the dinosaurs. An asteroid hit the Yucatan Peninsula about 66 million years ago. The impact left iridium in the geological record. But La Serta says we have it backwards. The iridium wasn't from space. It was fallout from a nuclear weapon that used copper as fuel.
8:51 Speaker 02 Uh, what's so fancy about copper?
8:53 AJ Gentile? When copper undergoes nuclear fusion under specific conditions, it creates elements that shouldn't exist.
9:01 Speaker 03 Copper is a very important material. If you induce a high electromagnetic field in the right angle, you produce an overcrossing of fluctuating fields. The fusion of copper with other elements in such a magnetic radiation field chamber can produce a force field of special nature that is very useful for various technological tasks.
9:22 Speaker 02 Oh, thanks, that clears it up. Uh, what is she talking about? I don't speak lizard.
9:27 AJ Gentile? She said copper can produce energy fields that can manipulate gravity, space, and time. UFOs use this for propulsion. The craft creates a field oppositely aligned with the Earth's magnetic field.
9:39 Speaker 02 I also know you speak lizard.
9:41 AJ Gentile? When the same poles from two magnets are close to each other, they create a repelling field. UFOs use copper fusion to create a field that pushes against the Earth's magnetic field. This is how they fly.
9:51 Speaker 02 Ah, it actually makes sense.
9:55 AJ Gentile? But the magnetic field of the Earth is constantly moving. The UFOs have to adjust their alignment, and this is hard to do. Sometimes they fail. That's what happened to Roswell in 1947. Two ships crashed. According to La Serta, two alien species discovered Earth at the same time millions of years ago. Humanoids from Procyon arrived first. They built copper mines in Antarctica and Asia, and their ships filled the skies. Then another species arrived, reptilians with their own copper fusion technology. And they wanted Earth's copper. The Procyons refused to share.
10:29 AJ Gentile? The war lasted months. The Procyons were winning until the reptilians deployed their ultimate weapon: a copper fusion bomb. It detonated in Yucatan. They expected it to kill all surface life while preserving mineral deposits, but something went wrong. Earth's seawater triggered a chain reaction, and the nuclear winter lasted 200 years. And most dinosaurs died, but some escaped underground. One species, an advanced Iguanodon, evolved into the Tern: Lacerta's ancestors. Before the extinction event, the Iguanodons were evolving to walk on two legs, and they were evolving an opposable thumb.
11:07 Speaker 03 Your human scientists today see the iridium concentration in the ground as an evidence for an asteroid impact that killed the dinosaurs. That is not true. But how should you know that?
11:20 AJ Gentile? Modern militaries are trying to recreate copper fusion technology, but Lacerta says they're following blueprints they don't understand. The process requires a deeper knowledge, not just of physics, but of biology. Because the real power of copper fusion isn't just about manipulating matter, it's about manipulating human consciousness.
11:47 AJ Gentile? During the second interview with Ol' K, Lacerta demonstrated the Tern's psychic abilities. First, telekinesis. Lacerta held out her hand. His hot coffee froze instantly. A pencil rose from the table. Ol' K was stunned.
12:03 Speaker 03 This isn't magic, it's biology. We are able to use telepathy and telekinesis from our birth. The structure of our brain is a little bit different and more active than yours, especially when we are in sunlight. When we are on the surface and we meet human beings, we are able to touch their mind and induce them via telepathy the command, "See us as one of your kind." And the weak human mind will accept this order without refusing, and they will see us, despite our reptilian look, as normal humans.
12:35 Speaker 02 Well, like lizard people could be anywhere. Look at our humanity.
12:38 AJ Gentile? It could be.
12:41 Speaker 04 What the most important thing in our lives is. Before we have come to this world in general. Not only on New Year's Eve, but basically everything.
12:52 Speaker 02 I knew it! Daddy Illuminati!
12:55 AJ Gentile? The turn are not the Illuminati.
12:57 Speaker 02 Okay, ugh!
12:58 AJ Gentile? Different reptilians are.
12:59 Speaker 02 Ah!
13:00 AJ Gentile? Lacerta's people avoid humans. But another reptilian race controls Earth. If you know David Icke's work, her story confirms a lot of it. Icke said that a race of shapeshifting reptilians from the Draco star system has infiltrated the world's power structures.
13:16 Speaker 05 Say that the people that actually live on the island are part of this. There are people... There's a network on the island that are...
13:22 Speaker 06 Big time. I mean, the island itself is a beautiful place. And if you pick up the higher levels, the vibrational levels of it, it's a very pleasant place to be. But my goodness me, there is a network of Freemasons, Satanists, and pedophiles that run this island.
13:38 Speaker 05 And this is...
13:39 Speaker 06 They run its government.
13:40 Speaker 05 The government, everything.
13:41 AJ Gentile? They're disguised as leaders in finance, media, and politics. They manipulate global events, steering us toward a one-world government.
13:48 Speaker 02 This is common knowledge.
13:50 AJ Gentile? Icke says they operate from the moon, an artificial base built by ancient aliens.
13:55 Speaker 02 Hollow moon linked down in your ventile box.
13:57 AJ Gentile? The moon broadcasts frequencies that create negative emotions. The reptilians feed on this.
14:02 Speaker 02 Humans are lizard people lunch episode. Link down in your, uh... I got nothing.
14:07 AJ Gentile? Yeah, I've covered bits and pieces of Icke's work here and there, but he needs his own episode. He has a lot of interesting theories.
14:14 Speaker 02 Fix!
14:14 AJ Gentile? Now, if you want to see that, let me know. All right, where we at?
14:17 Speaker 02 Uh, the lizard lady was throwing pencils around and manipulating you weak-minded humans.
14:22 AJ Gentile? Right. Old K sees Lacerta's true form only because she allows it. She normally appears as an attractive brunette.
14:29 Speaker 02 Oh, what, nobody wants to appear as a chunky ginger?
14:32 AJ Gentile? Be nice.
14:34 AJ Gentile? Lacerta says that humans have these same abilities, but the Illigim suppress them. And some governments are aware of this. The Pentagon's ESP research wasn't just about human psychics. They studied sites where magnetic field fluctuations altered children's brainwaves. The classified report concluded the Illigim left something in human DNA. And whatever it is, it's waking up.
15:04 AJ Gentile? Earth's magnetic north pole is moving faster than ever recorded, about 35 miles per year. The world magnetic model can't keep up, and scientists don't fully understand why. Lacerta says these disturbances are part of the Illogym's plan. They built triggers into human DNA, programming that activates under specific conditions. The shifting magnetic field affects human consciousness.
15:27 Speaker 03 The Illogym didn't just want workers. They wanted weapons. Living weapons that would evolve exactly as planned. Your rapid technological advancement wasn't an accident. It was programmed into your DNA.
15:42 AJ Gentile? Three alien species are coming for Earth. One needs human genetics, another wants hydrogen from our oceans, and the third wants copper for weapons. The Illogym engineered us to defeat them all.
15:55 Speaker 03 Your creators didn't just give you intelligence. They gave you aggression, territorial instincts, hack mentality. They built you to fight. The seventh version wasn't their final creation. It was their first successful prototype.
16:10 AJ Gentile? So the Illogym aren't coming to destroy humanity. They're coming to complete what they started. The question isn't whether we'll survive, it's whether we'll still be human when they're done.
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16:59 AJ Gentile? When the Lasertophiles landed on the web in the early 2000s, it got people's attention. Dinosaurs killed by alien wars, humans engineered by ancient astronauts, underground reptilian cities, magnetic fields controlling human consciousness. It's an incredible story and has a lot of supporters. But is it true? Let's separate fact from speculation. Darren Cuyu exists. It's an underground city in Turkey, extending roughly 280 feet below the surface. Its ventilation system still fascinates engineers. Some say the stonework shows signs of advanced technology, but most experts believe that people were just really talented. The multihypogeenium is famous for its acoustic properties. Chambers are tuned to 110 Hz, and nobody knows why. The site's stonework is also very precise.
17:44 AJ Gentile? While no mainstream evidence suggests it's beyond Neolithic capabilities, the skill involved is still impressive. But geological surveys confirm vast cave networks winding deep beneath the Earth's surface. And this brings out the hollow Earth theories. Now until we can see with our own eyes, all we can do is guess. Deep-sea monitoring stations record unexplained sounds like the vloop. Experts say they're icequakes or marine life. Maybe, but parts of the ocean are too deep to reach, for now. The Çikçulum Crater marked an asteroid impact that killed dinosaurs, and most scientists agree. But there are some who say that the heat and pressure came from below. Scientists laugh at those people. But honestly, the asteroid-killing-the-dinosaur theory is pretty new. When I was a kid, people got laughed at for believing this.
18:27 AJ Gentile? It wasn't until the early 1990s that the crater was found. So as always, the only thing separating a conspiracy from the truth is time. Our own evolution raises questions, too. It took early humans hundreds of thousands of years to refine stone tools, then suddenly agriculture, written language, advanced technology. Anthropologists say, once we learned to write, technology could accelerate because now we had a way of passing information along. I'm open-minded about the ancient advanced civilization theory, but I'm not a full believer. Still, I'll watch and read anything that Graham Hancock puts out. Earth's magnetic pole moves between 25 and 35 miles per year, the fastest rate ever recorded. It's definitely happening. Now, I don't think aliens caused it, but if you want nightmares about pole shifts,
19:12 AJ Gentile? watch our episode on the Adam and Eve story.
19:14 Speaker 02 Adam and Eve nightmare fuel link down in your honey hole.
19:17 AJ Gentile? Now, read the transcripts. It's either scientific genius or nonsense, and I'm not smart enough to tell. It's full of terms like "quantum technology for bubble-walking in the Omniverse" and "reptilian parathomus matter interaction."
19:30 Speaker 02 Who wrote this thing, Terrence Howard?
19:32 AJ Gentile? Please don't say that. He watches this channel. Now, the biggest problem with the Lasertophiles story is that old K's identity has never been confirmed. He's called K after Tommy Lee Jones's character from "The Men in Black."
19:43 Speaker 02 Here come the men in black, the galaxy defenders.
19:48 AJ Gentile? True or not, "The Lasertophiles" is a fun read. Now, so far, there's no documented proof of contact with non-human intelligence. Every year, we get teased about disclosure, but I won't hold my breath. I think we've had contact, but I don't think they're gonna tell us. And you've heard me say that I don't think UFOs are from another planet. If you look at the ancient structures underground, the patterns in our history, the anomalies in our DNA, the evidence doesn't point to something from another world. It points to something that never left.
20:23 AJ Gentile? Thank you so much for hanging out today. My name is AJ. That's Hecklefish.
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21:58 Speaker 02 Grab a Hiccupy T-shirt, or one of these comfy mugs that you can stick your fist in, whether you're an alien, a reptilian, and you got a mitt, or a paw, or a hoof, you can go ahead and stick it in there. We're not here to judge you. Or buy one of these creepy Fudo dolls that maybe has some magic attached to it, or get a hoodie, or stuff my face on it, or grab one of these squeezy animal stuffed talking headless toy dolls.
22:20 AJ Gentile? Those are the plugs, and that's gonna do it. Until next time, be safe, be kind, know that you are appreciated.
23:21 Speaker 05 I fear the crackhead and got stuck inside Mel's hole with MKL truck Being only too aware Did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon landing alone? On a film set, were the shadows people there? The Roswell aliens just fought the smiling man, I'm told And his name was Cold And I can't believe, I'm dancing with the fish Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 And one more love will be all through the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth
24:05 Speaker 05 And one more love will be all through the night
24:27 Speaker 05 The Mothman sightings and the solar storms still come To have got the secret city underground Mysterious number stations, planets circle to Project Stargate And what the dark watchers found In a simulation, don't you worry though The Black Knight said a lot and told me so And I can't believe, I'm dancing with the fish Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 And one more love will be all through the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth
25:11 Speaker 05 And one more love will be all through the night Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 And one more love will be all through the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth And one more love will be all through the night
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