Pod Insights The Why Files: Operation Podcast Project Ancient Arrow | The NSA's Secret War Against Our Future About this episode Three hikers stumbled upon something impossible in the New Mexico desert. Inside a hidden chamber carved into Chaco Canyon's walls, they discovered artifacts that defied everything archaeologists thought they knew about human history. The National Security Agency seized the site within 48 hours. For over two decades, Project Ancient Arrow remained buried in classified files until a series of rockslides revealed the truth. This wasn't just a room—it was an entrance to something far more complex. Twenty-three chambers spiraled through solid rock, each containing technology that shouldn't exist and symbols nobody could translate. When scientists finally cracked the code, they uncovered a message from 750 years in the future. The senders called themselves Wingmakers, and they had a warning about humanity's survival.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovLWwHqjlaM
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Transcript 5,573 words · 10 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:31 AJ Gentile? In 1972, three hikers discovered a hidden room carved into a wall of Chaco Canyon. The New Mexico desert was well over 100 degrees. Inside the cavern, the temperature was a comfortable 72. Artifacts were everywhere: pottery, tools, weapons. Experts dated everything to the 8th century. Every item, except one. A compass-like object covered in symbols nobody recognized, made from an alloy that wouldn't exist for another thousand years. Within 48 hours, the National Security Agency seized the site. They called it "Project Ancient Arrow." The NSA studied the room for months, then sealed it. 21 years later, a caving revealed the truth.
1:15 AJ Gentile? This wasn't just a room, it was an entrance.
1:28 AJ Gentile? For 21 years, the Chaco Canyon Chamber remained sealed. The compass artifact was locked in a vault somewhere in Virginia. Project Ancient Arrow, like so many classified operations, gathered dust in NSA archives. By May 1994, Project Ancient Arrow was all but forgotten. But the mountain had other plans. A series of rock slides shook the canyon. The mountain seemed to be peeling back layers of itself. When the dust settled, park rangers found an opening. Not a hole, a doorway. Perfectly rectangular with sharp edges and right angles. This wasn't erosion, it was carved. The caving revealed a corridor that disappeared deep inside the mountain. The rangers called it in.
2:12 AJ Gentile? Project Ancient Arrow was immediately reactivated. The NSA was on-site within hours.
2:17 Speaker 02 Wow, the NSA moves faster than Uber Eats.
2:23 AJ Gentile? The military cleared the area, and five scientists arrived to take readings and measurements. But these weren't archaeologists. They worked for the ACIO, the Advanced Contact Intelligence Organization, a subsection of the NSA. It operated beyond classified, above top secret, and without congressional oversight. Most senior NSA officials don't know it exists, and those who do, don't acknowledge it. The ACIO likes it this way. Their specialty was technology that shouldn't exist on Earth, and this corridor was exactly their kind of problem. The passage spiraled upward through solid rock. Not carved, melted.
3:04 AJ Gentile? The walls were polished at the atomic level, covered in glowing symbols that seemed part of the stone itself. Twenty-three chambers branched off at regular intervals. The spiral formed a perfect double helix, DNA carved in stone. Every chamber contained artifacts: paintings using pigments nobody could identify, musical instruments that created frequencies humans couldn't hear, star charts drawn from somewhere else in the galaxy. The same symbols from the corridor were in every room. Chamber 23 was different, though. No symbols, no artwork, just one artifact: a small optical disc. It looked...like a CD.
3:45 Speaker 02 Uh, what year was this?
3:47 AJ Gentile? 1994.
3:48 Speaker 02 Uh, probably an AOL disc.
3:49 AJ Gentile? It wasn't an AOL CD.
3:51 Speaker 02 Are you sure? They were everywhere.
3:53 AJ Gentile? It wasn't a CD at all, it just kinda looked like one. And scientists still assumed the disc contained digital information, but when they tried to read it, nothing worked. Lasers failed, electron microscopes showed only a smooth surface. But under certain wavelengths of light, symbols appeared, thousands of them, layered in three-dimensional patterns, the same symbols that covered the walls. The ACIO couldn't decipher it, they sent the disc to Virginia for analysis. After almost two years of analyzing the ancient arrow site, the scientists thought they'd found everything. Then X-rays of Chamber 23 revealed something else. A trapdoor buried under six inches of debris. It covered a shaft dropping straight down 150 feet.
4:37 AJ Gentile? Too narrow for a person, so they lowered cameras instead.
4:40 Speaker 02 Ah, that reminds me. I gotta schedule a colonoscopy.
4:44 AJ Gentile? Okay, that's enough.
4:45 Speaker 02 What? Everyone over 50 should get one.
4:48 AJ Gentile? Thank you for the PSA.
4:50 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, that's right, fellas. Get your PSA checked too, eh?
4:54 AJ Gentile? I've got one paragraph left.
4:56 Speaker 02 Fine, fine, go ahead.
5:00 Speaker 02 Sheesh, what a grouch.
5:04 AJ Gentile? Chamber 24 was massive, three times bigger than any other room. Seven groups of symbols covered the wall in the most complex pattern they'd seen. But there was no way to reach it. The project stalled again. Two years later, another discovery would show that ancient arrow wasn't ancient at all. The discovery had nothing to do with the past. It had to do with the future.
5:30 Speaker 00 Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal. At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan.
6:12 Speaker 00 And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
6:35 AJ Gentile? In the summer of 1996, two college students were hiking near Chaco Canyon. Twenty-four years after the first ancient arrow discovery, two years after rock slides that exposed new chambers. They spotted something metallic catching sunlight. Not buried, not hidden, just sitting on the ground.
6:54 Speaker 02 1996, AOL CDs were still everywhere.
6:58 AJ Gentile? It wasn't an AOL CD.
7:01 Speaker 02 Okay.
7:02 AJ Gentile? The object was about the size of a shoebox and heavy like lead. Its surface showed a pattern of swirled gold and silver that was a three-dimensional map of the exact area where they stood. Strange symbols covered every inch of the object. Not carved or etched, the symbols were part of the metal itself. As the students lifted the object from the sand, both collapsed at exactly the same time, like someone had flipped a switch. They weren't unconscious, they were inside a vision.
7:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, oh, what, did they eat mushrooms off this thing?
7:35 AJ Gentile? No.
7:36 Speaker 02 Oh, it's in the desert, that's right, so they probably ate peyote.
7:41 AJ Gentile? No.
7:41 Speaker 02 Did they lick a frog?
7:42 AJ Gentile? They didn't eat or lick anything. Just touching the box gave them a vision. But it gave them the same vision. A massive chamber system inside a mountain. Twenty-three rooms in a spiral pattern. They could smell cool air and feel smooth stone under their feet. Strange symbols glowed on walls they'd never seen. They can hear footsteps echoing, their own footsteps, walking through chambers that existed somewhere else. When the vision ended, both students were on their knees in the sand, gasping like they'd been underwater. The experience lasted a few seconds, but to them, it felt like hours. They then wrapped the artifact carefully. Neither wanted another experience.
8:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, nothing's worse than a bad trip, am I right?
8:27 AJ Gentile? I don't know what you're talking about.
8:29 Speaker 02 Come on, yes, you do.
8:31 AJ Gentile? Please, please, there are kids watching.
8:33 Speaker 02 Yeah, right, right, sorry, sorry, kids. By bad trip, I just mean a weekend in Portland.
8:41 AJ Gentile? Be nice. Anyway, they brought the shoebox artifact to their archaeology professor. But when he touched it, nothing. No visions, no reaction. Whatever happened to his students didn't happen to him. He noted the unusual metal composition and the unknown symbols. He uploaded the findings to academic databases to see if anyone recognized this artifact. Unfortunately for the professor, somebody did. The internet was still new to most people in 1996. But it wasn't new to the NSA or its secret internal division, the ACIO. Since Ancient Arrow reopened in 1994, the ACIO had been monitoring public and private networks for certain keywords and images.
9:23 AJ Gentile? Unidentifiable symbols, unusual metal compositions, reports of induced visions. The professor's research triggered every alert. Within four hours, federal agents were in his office. They confiscated the artifact and made the professor sign a stack of non-disclosure forms. The agents added a few threats about national security, treason, and prison. Just to be clear, the object went directly to Dr. Jamison Neruda, ACIO's top linguist and technology specialist. The same man who'd been trying to decrypt the optical disc for two years. This artifact would show him what he'd been missing. The symbols weren't a language, they were instructions.
10:08 Speaker 00 Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
10:43 AJ Gentile? The vision artifact sat on the table in Neruda's lab and did nothing. The two students had experienced vivid hallucinations, identical visions of the ancient arrow chambers. But here in ACIO's sterile lab, the artifact was just an unusual metal object covered in symbols. Neruda understood why it didn't work: proximity effect. The artifact needed to be near the ancient arrow site. The location was in this world pattern on its surface. Only about 50 people on the planet know about this location, and he was one of them. So, one puzzle solved. But Neruda was fascinated by something else. The symbols on the artifact matched symbols from the chambers. Not exactly, but close.
11:26 AJ Gentile? Like different dialects of the same language. Then it hit him, and he reached for the disk. The optical disk from Chamber 23 didn't look like much. About the size of a CD, but thicker. Not quite glass, not quite crystal. When ACIO's standard decryption tools failed, Neruda took over. That was almost two years ago. Mathematical sequences, quantum algorithms... Even Zemi, ACIO's quantum computer built with alien technology, couldn't crack this thing. Zemi made the best supercomputers on Earth look like pocket calculators. Still, nothing.
12:01 Speaker 02 Wah wah wah wah wah wah.
12:02 AJ Gentile? What?
12:03 Speaker 02 Alien technology.
12:04 AJ Gentile? Yup. The ACIO had an alliance with an alien race called the Chordium. Their home planet is 15,000 light-years away. Dr. Neruda was fluent in over 30 languages, plus 12 extinct ones. He was an expert in data encryption, compression, storage. He also possessed genius-level knowledge of mathematics, quantum systems, music, philosophy, biology, and cosmology. His IQ had been enhanced through genetic modification. Standard procedure for core ACIO scientists. The modifications raised intelligence by 500 points or more, all courtesy of their alien partners. Neruda repeated himself, this time out loud. Different dialects of the same language.
12:50 AJ Gentile? The symbols on the artifact weren't random. They formed a sequence. When he compared them to the chamber paintings, a pattern emerged. Each painting contained one unique symbol. The artifact showed him what order to arrange the symbols. Neruda input these symbols into Zemi as ancient Sumerian words, spoken in sequence from chamber 1 to 23. Then Zemi roared to life. Eight thousand pages of data flooded the processors. Text, diagrams, star maps, genetic sequences, all with translations in English and 60 other languages. Dr. Neruda had been with ACIO for 15 years. Not only was he aware of alien races on Earth, he spoke five of their languages. He could read four more.
13:35 AJ Gentile? He thought he'd seen everything. He did not see this coming. The creators of the disk called themselves wingmakers. And the wingmakers weren't aliens. They weren't an ancient civilization. They were humans from Earth. And they were sending us a warning from 750 years in the future.
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14:31 Speaker 00 Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals. No kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
15:04 AJ Gentile? According to the DISC, humanity developed time travel in the 20th century, not for exploration or survival. These future humans were on a timeline where Earth gets invaded by synthetic beings called the Animus. The Animus were more than just machines. They were an android race with artificial intelligence, driven by one obsession: to become soul carriers, to achieve immortality. But they lacked organic nervous systems, the very thing needed to carry a soul's higher frequency. So they needed our DNA, not just to reproduce, to evolve. And they didn't choose Earth randomly. We're a genetic library. Our DNA carries something rare in the universe: a full range of emotions,
15:48 AJ Gentile? the key to the human soul. The Animus wanted our source code, the original blueprint of human genetics. And they'd been here before, 300 million years ago, and again about 9,000 years ago. Both times, they found humans too primitive for their needs. But they were scheduled to return in 2011, and this time, they'd find us useful. The timeline was specific. First, infiltration, that appear as friends, advanced beings here to help. They'd work with the United Nations to bring stability to Earth by creating a global governing body.
16:22 Speaker 02 One royal government?
16:23 AJ Gentile? Yep. The group is called the Incognabula.
16:26 Speaker 02 Another word for Illuminati.
16:29 AJ Gentile? Yep, and their plan is to control the world's money supply and natural resources. These would be distributed by the Incanabula, who are android-human hybrids.
16:39 Speaker 02 Anyone check Klaus Schwab for wires?
16:42 AJ Gentile? They would implement a paperless electronic currency that tracks the spending habits of everyone on Earth. This would give the Incanabula insight into individual affairs and allow them to manipulate global events. By 2018, the Incanabula would be running the world. But this future could be avoided. The disk explained how. What we perceive as normal biology is actually a suppressed version of our full genetic potential. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes. The wingmakers claimed we can activate 24. And here's why that mattered. The animus can only harvest from standard human DNA, our current 23 chromosome pairs.
17:23 AJ Gentile? Humans with 24 activated chromosome pairs would be useless, like incompatible software. Seven sites around the world would trigger this activation. It could be done simply through meditation. As more people meditated, dormant DNA would activate. First two pairs, then four, then 12, eventually all 24. And the disk had another solution. Use time travel to stop the animus from ever finding Earth. So humanity had two defenses: one biological and one technological. Dr. Neruda understood the value of both options. But ACIO's leadership was split. Half wanted to use technology, half wanted transformation.
18:06 AJ Gentile? Neruda was caught in the middle, but he knew he'd have to make a choice. And the choice wasn't just about technology versus consciousness, it was about who decides humanity's future.
18:27 AJ Gentile? Within, ACIO operated an even more secretive unit: The Labyrinth Group. Only about 120 people knew it existed. Their leader was known only as "Fifteen." No one used real names at that level. Fifteen had created The Labyrinth Group with one purpose: Develop "Blank Slate Technology," BST. This is time travel that could alter the past, not just observe it.
18:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, finally, they can go back and tell Fox not to cancel Firefly.
18:54 AJ Gentile? Yeah, I think they'd rather use the technology to avoid the alien invasion.
18:57 Speaker 02 Sure, sure, sure, but while you're back there, I'll kill two birds: Aliens and Fox executives.
19:06 AJ Gentile? With the help of the Chordium, The Labyrinth Group had been working on time travel since 1963. The Chordium provided everything: The quantum computers, the genetic modifications that gave ACIO scientists their enhanced abilities. The Chordium also warned about the Animus threat decades before the DISC confirmed it. And The Labyrinth Group had accumulated wealth outside government oversight. It had more money than most small nations, all focused on time travel. Because if you can travel back and change key events, you can prevent the Animus from ever finding Earth. Change the right moment in the past, and the future threat disappears. But now the Wingmakers offered a different solution: Evolution through consciousness instead of technology.
19:47 AJ Gentile? Becoming something the Animus couldn't use, instead of erasing them from a timeline. Two paths: Both claim to save humanity. Fifteen saw them as complementary: Use both. Develop BST while activating dormant DNA: Cover all bases. Dr. Neruda saw it differently. The more he learned about the Wingmakers' philosophy, the more he questioned changing the past. The Wingmakers weren't just sharing technology, they were teaching transformation. For three years, Neruda had translated the Wingmakers' information: The technical data, the philosophical writings, the warnings. With each translation, something changed inside him. The Wingmakers weren't just sharing information, they were selecting their spokesmen: Him.
20:31 AJ Gentile? When he reported this belief to his superiors, the response was immediate: Psychiatric evaluation, security review.
20:41 AJ Gentile? 15 decided Neruda's growing belief in consciousness-based evolution could not be allowed to spread through the ACIO. The solution was simple: give Neruda an MRP, Memory Restructure Procedure. This would erase his memories of the Ancient Arrow Project, standard protocol for personnel who became compromised. Neruda had done these procedures himself. It was routine. Colleagues returned to work with gaps in their memories, confused but compliant. Now it was his turn. The MRP was scheduled for three weeks later, December 15, 1997. He marked it on his calendar.
21:17 Speaker 02 He put his own mind wipe in his calendar?
21:20 AJ Gentile? Yep.
21:21 Speaker 02 Tuesday dentist, Wednesday mind wipe, Thursday yoga. That guy's got ice water in his veins.
21:28 AJ Gentile? He did, but he was not gonna let them take his memories. He had three weeks to come up with a plan.
21:44 AJ Gentile? Dr. Neruda had three weeks before they erased his mind. He spent those weeks watching his colleagues differently. Brilliant minds trapped in a philosophy of control. Every problem required a technological solution. Every threat demanded superior firepower. The idea that humanity might transform itself through consciousness, that seemed impossible. But consciousness was the one thing the atomists couldn't harvest. Synthetic beings needed genetic material, not awareness. The wingmakers understood this. On December 13, 1997, during a routine shift change, Dr. Jamison Neruda walked out of the ACIO facility. No elaborate escape plan, no security breach. He understood their systems well enough
22:27 AJ Gentile? to slip out during a brief surveillance gap. By the time they noticed he was gone, he'd already have destroyed his traceable implants and begun searching for someone willing to hear an impossible story. Two days later, he made contact with a journalist named Sarah. He had a lot of information to share, and less than 12 hours before the next remote viewing sweep would find him.
22:47 Speaker 02 Remote viewing sweep?
22:49 AJ Gentile? Oh, yeah. The ACIO had a team of psychics on staff.
22:52 Speaker 02 Yeah, of course they did.
22:54 AJ Gentile? There's so much more to this story, which is why we'll be revisiting it from time to time. Anyway, Neruda promised to tell Sarah everything about the ACIO, the Labyrinth Group, the Chordium Alliance, humanity's hidden history and potential future, but most importantly, who the wingmakers were and what they really wanted. They weren't time travelers trying to save humanity from invasion. They were teachers. The Animus threat was real, but it served a larger purpose. Crisis forces evolution. The approaching danger would push humanity to activate dormant capabilities, not through technology, through higher consciousness. Then humans would be useless to the Animus. Neruda had 12 hours to convince Sarah. 12 hours to plant the seeds of transformation.
23:38 AJ Gentile? 12 hours before the ACIO found him and took his mind.
23:52 AJ Gentile? Dr. Jameson Neruda was having trouble. Finding someone to hear his story was harder than escaping. Academics wanted credentials. Journalists wanted proof.
24:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, journalists demanding proof. I remember those days.
24:07 AJ Gentile? Journalist Sarah, he never learned her last name, was his fifth attempt. When they met in a diner outside Sacramento, he had 12 hours before the next remote viewing sweep. He gave five long interviews, enough to expose the ACIO, the Labyrinth Group, the Chordium Alliance. But as Neruda began talking, he realized the conspiracy wasn't the real story. The real story was transformation. Neruda explained how the Labyrinth Group approached everything backwards. They saw consciousness as a problem to overcome with better processors. They saw time as something to control rather than understand. The wingmaker suggested defense wasn't about building bigger weapons or rewriting history. It was about becoming unholy. Harvestable through higher consciousness.
24:51 AJ Gentile? Sarah recorded everything: the technical specifications, the philosophical frameworks, the countdown of 2011. But Neruda could see her struggling with the same question everyone asked: Why should anyone believe this? He had no proof. The artifacts remained locked in ACIO vaults. The disk translations existed only in classified systems. His enhanced genetics couldn't be verified without special equipment. All he had were words. And 11 months later, those words appeared online on a Wingmakers website. But the details had changed. The hiker's discovery date shifted. Character names morphed. And the Wingmakers teachings were now available for the low, low price of $17.99.
25:34 Speaker 02 Oh, no.
25:45 AJ Gentile? The man behind the Wingmakers website called himself James. Later, he'd reveal his full identity: James Mahu from the Lyricus Teaching Organization. November 1998, 11 months after Neruda's defection. The Wingmakers website appeared online, anonymous at first. No author, nobody taking credit, just the story of Ancient Arrow, the ACIO, and humanity's potential future, free for anyone to read. The site included Neruda's interviews, renamed Dr. Anderson in this version, and there were pictures of art from the chambers, music, Wingmakers philosophy, all available for free. Then things started changing. December 9, 1998. Wingmakers LLC was created in Minnesota.
26:28 AJ Gentile? The owner, Mark Hempel, based in Adana. A month later, subtle changes appeared on the website. The hiker's discovery date shifted from 1972 to 1996. The chamber count increased from 23 to 24. Dr. Neruda became Dr. Anderson. The changes were small, easy to miss unless you were paying attention. The transformation accelerated in 2001. March brought the first commercial product: $17.99. By the end of the year, what started as a free revelation had become a whole product line: music CDs priced at $108.
27:04 Speaker 02 Oh, $100 for a CD?
27:06 AJ Gentile? Yep.
27:07 Speaker 02 I'm telling you, merch is way too cheap.
27:11 AJ Gentile? No, it isn't.
27:13 AJ Gentile? The websites sold art reproductions, philosophy collections, complete packages with bundled discounts. James finally revealed himself through email interviews. He claimed the identity Mahunahi, a translator for the Lyricus Teaching Organization. Not from outer space, but not quite human either. He described using "sensory bilocation", a technique for gathering information across dimensions. He positioned himself as a translator, not a creator. The Wingmakers' materials were real. He didn't write them, he just made them accessible. But the changes kept coming. The Chordium's home planet moved from 15,000 light-years away to 15 million. Scientific details were updated to match current theories.
27:57 AJ Gentile? New websites popped up: EventTemples.org, Lyricus.org, SovereignIntegral.org. Each site added details to the story, and each offered more products. The original story, Dr. Neruda's, was buried under spiritual teachings and expensive merchandise. Years later, James would describe the Wingmakers' materials with a specific word. Not "history", not "revelation", he called it "mythology". Mark Hempel remained silent. He managed the business side, while James handled mythology. Together, they transformed a conspiracy story into something else. Something less specific, something less verifiable, but something much more profitable.
28:46 AJ Gentile? We've got desert canyons with secret labs, time-traveling humans warning about synthetic invaders, alien alliances, DNA activation, humanity's salvation through consciousness. The Wingmakers' story has it all, and we just scratched the surface. But is any of this true? Well, the New Mexico Cultural Resources Information System contains no record of any ancient arrow site. Over 800 archaeological projects have been documented near Chaco Canyon since 1952. Not one project mentions mysterious chambers. No museum anywhere has a single Wingmaker artifact. No peer-reviewed paper discussed the discovery. The NSA is never acknowledged an advanced contact intelligence organization.
29:29 AJ Gentile? ACIO appears on no government documentation, classified or declassified.
29:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, but if ACIO is real, they cover their tracks.
29:39 AJ Gentile? That's true, but so are the story contradictions. The Wayback Machine shows all the changes to the dates, names, locations. These aren't clarifications, they're rewrites. Then, there's the money. Wingmakers LLC, registered December 1998. Free content transformed into premium products. The Wingmakers' revelation had become a business model. But despite all the problems with the story and all the products for sale, the Wingmakers built devoted following. 25 years later, there are still thousands of followers. They know the story is debunked. They don't care. Still, they report personal transformations, expanded awareness, life changes. Now, is this just a placebo effect or something more?
30:24 AJ Gentile? I don't think it matters. If people are getting value for their money, I don't have a problem with it. That's why when I read that James Mahu was a fraud running a scam, I push back, because a scam really all depends on your point of view. James himself called the material "mythology," not history, not journalism. Mythology. That's an important word, and probably why James chose it. Since before we had written language, we evolved through stories. Our culture, from the very beginning, was built on mythology. Cave paintings taught the next generation how to hunt. Tribal elders told legends that explained seasons. The stories told in religions shaped entire civilizations.
31:06 AJ Gentile? Stories have always pushed humanity forward. Jules Verne wrote about submarines. We built them. Arthur C. Clarke imagined satellites. We launched them. Star Trek showed communicators and video calls, and we use those every day. The Wingmakers might be fiction, but it pointed people toward legitimate research. Epigenetics, consciousness studies, the connection between mind and matter. Thousands took up meditation, studied quantum physics. Why did they do this? Because the Wingmaker's story is powerful. And powerful stories always have a hint of truth. The Chambers never existed. The artifacts were imaginary. The time travel was fantasy. But the Wingmaker's story contains one undeniable truth:
31:50 AJ Gentile? We're capable of more than we know. I believe that's true. I think you do, too. That's why you're here watching this show. You have questions. You have questions about what's hiding in our government, our society, on our planet, in our reality. And now that we've started asking these questions, we'll never stop. So maybe the Wingmakers never existed. But what they started, it's everywhere.
32:21 AJ Gentile? Thank you so much for hanging out with me today. My name is AJ. That's Cyclefish. Me too, Bill. This has been the Y-Files. If you had fun or learned anything, do him a favor, subscribe, comment, like, share. That stuff really helps us out. And like most topics we cover on the channel, today's is recommended by you. So if there's a story you'd like to see or learn more about, go to theyfiles.com/tips. And there's a lot more to the Wingmaker's story. Remember, the Y-Files is also a podcast. Twice a week, I post deep dives into the stories we cover on the channel and also post episodes that wouldn't be allowed on the channel. It's called the Y-Files Operation Podcast, and it's available everywhere. And if you're into podcasts, I'd appreciate a like or a follow, or however that works. Now, if you need more Y-Files in your life, and you might not, I understand if you don't,
33:06 AJ Gentile? but if you do, check out our Discord. Got over 75,000 members, so there's someone on there 24/7. They're into the same weird stuff we are. It's a great community. It's really supportive. It's a lot of fun and it's free to join. Now, if you want to know what's going on with the Y-Files at any given time, check out our production calendar. It's theyfiles.com/cow. There we post our episode schedule, upcoming podcasts, live streams, all that stuff. And special thanks to our patrons who made this channel possible. Every episode of the Y-Files is dedicated to our Patreon members. I couldn't do this without you. And if you'd like to support the channel and keep us going, consider becoming a member on Patreon. For as little as three bucks a month, you get access to perks like videos airing with no commercials, see your name in the credits, access to merch only available to members,
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34:03 Speaker 02 Grab a Haggadish t-shirt, or one of these festival coffee bags and stick your fist in there. Or get one of these creepy U2, spinny U2 dolls, or a hoodie with my face on it, or something else with my face on it. Or grab one of these Haggadish, Turgid Haggadish doll toys.
34:20 AJ Gentile? But if you're gonna buy merch, make sure you become a member on YouTube. YouTube members get 10% off everything in the Y-Files store. We do a new code every month. And if you want to join for one month, get the code and cancel, that's totally fine.
34:32 Speaker 02 I'm not trying to tell anybody about that.
34:35 AJ Gentile? Those are the plugs and that's gonna do it. Until next time, be safe, be kind, and know that you are appreciated.
35:36 Speaker 04 I fear the crab cat and got stuck inside Mel's hole with MKL truck I'm being only too aware Did Stanley Cupid fake the moon landing alone? On a film set, were the shadows people there? The Roswell aliens just fought the smiling man I'm told, and his name was Cole And I can't believe, I'm dancing with the fish Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 And one more zombie beat all through the night
36:16 Speaker 04 All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth And one more zombie beat all through the night
36:41 Speaker 04 The Mothman sightings and the solar stones still come To have got the secret city underground Mysterious number stations, planets circle to Project Stargate And what the dark watchers found In a simulation, don't you worry though The black nights had a lot of jokes And so, I can't believe, I'm dancing with the fish Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 And one more zombie beat all through the night
37:22 Speaker 04 All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth And one more zombie beat all through the night
37:32 Speaker 05 Head to fish on Thursday nights when they change you. And one more summer beat all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. So one more summer beat all through the night.
38:01 Speaker 05 Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance on the dance floor. Because she is a camel. And camels love to dance when the feeling is right on wasting time. Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance.
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Previous The Pentyrch UFO Incident | Hiding the Evidence of Human-Alien Combat Next The Real CIA Vol. 1 | 693 Pages of Forbidden Government Secrets Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated