The Basement: Dan Flores | Ice Age Giants, Camels in America, and Coyote Resilience
The Why Files: Operation Podcast
Hosted by AJ Gentile
- 2h 59m
- Transcript
Summary
Written by a model from the transcript; not yet reviewed.
Historian Dan Flores discusses his 40-year career writing the biographies of North American wild animals, focusing on the remarkable resilience of coyotes and the historical war waged against predators by the federal government. He and the host explore the deep history of the American West, examining Pleistocene footprints at White Sands, the truth behind early American exploration and the Red River expedition, and the recent de-extinction work of Colossal Biosciences. Flores explains how coyotes outsmarted decades of eradication campaigns through a social adaptation called fish infusion, expanding their range across the continent while other species vanished.
- Recognize that coyotes survive intense eradication efforts by breaking into singles and pairs rather than dying off. 1:15:14
- Understand that historic predator eradication programs relied heavily on indiscriminate poison baits like strychnine. 51:27
- Note that pronghorns retain extreme running speeds as an evolutionary adaptation against Pleistocene predators like American cheetahs.
- Acknowledge that colonial market hunting decimated North American wildlife populations long before modern conservation laws took effect. 2:06:22
Chapters
- 0:01Podcast Intro and AI Promotion
The show opens with a brief AI-focused advertisement before introducing the episode’s guest.
- 0:49Introducing Dan Flores, Western Historian
Host announces Dan Flores, a historian who has written extensively on North American wildlife.
- 1:20Coyote’s Historical Significance
Dan explains why coyotes survived the Pleistocene extinction and became a central figure in Native American lore.
- 1:55Dan’s Early Writing Success
Dan recounts his first publication in Sports Afield and the impact it had on his career.
- 7:17Childhood Encounter with a Fox
Dan describes a memorable 13‑year‑old experience spotting a fox and its influence on his interest in animals.
- 10:20Bureau of Biological Survey’s Shift to Killing
Dan explains how the Bureau of Biological Survey transitioned from scientific study to aggressive predator extermination.
- 43:02Hybridization of Coyotes and Wolves
Dan details how coyotes hybridize with eastern and red wolves, forming coy‑wolves, and the implications for conservation.
- 45:59The Murray Brothers and Predator Control
The conversation turns to the Murray brothers’ role in early 20th‑century predator eradication efforts.
- 52:41Poison Bait and Strychnine Use
The hosts discuss the use of strychnine poison baits and the cruelty involved in killing wolves and coyotes.
- 57:24Historical Impact of Predator Eradication
Dan recounts the massive scale of predator killings in the early 1900s and the long‑term effects on wildlife populations.
- 58:25Poison Baiting and Collateral Damage
The discussion turns to the widespread use of poison baits to kill wolves and coyotes, highlighting the unintended deaths of many other species.
- 1:05:21Ecology’s Early Opposition to Eradication
Ecologists like Aldo Leopold and Joseph Grinnell began to argue against mass extermination, insisting that predators should be preserved in national parks.
- 1:07:30The Muri Brothers’ Scientific Studies
The Muri brothers conduct field studies in Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons, concluding that coyotes are largely beneficial and not a threat to wildlife.
- 1:12:00The Failure of the Poison Program
Despite massive funding and millions of coyotes killed, the poison campaigns failed to eliminate the species, which continued to spread across the continent.
- 1:35:54Coyotes’ Adaptive Strategies and Spread
Coyotes’ individualistic behavior, rapid reproduction, and ability to avoid poison allow them to thrive and colonize new areas, including the eastern U.S. and the Darien Gap.
- 1:37:23The Darien Gap and South American Expansion
Coyotes are moving southward, crossing the Panama Canal, and may soon reach the Colombian side of the Darien Gap, potentially becoming the first mammals to bridge North and South America in millions of years.
- 1:41:39Ice Age Footprints and Early Human Migration
The conversation shifts to 23,000‑year‑old footprints showing early humans interacting with megafauna, suggesting coastal migration rather than a land bridge.
- 1:46:48Megafauna Extinction Theories
Debate over whether human hunting, climate change, or disease caused the extinction of large Pleistocene animals, with emphasis on the lack of clear evidence for a global impact.
- 1:54:23Camel and Horse Extinctions in North America
Discussion of why large mammals like horses and camels vanished in North America while surviving elsewhere, touching on pathogen introduction and genetic isolation.
- 1:58:30Pronghorns and Pleistocene Ghosts
The discussion opens with the evolutionary adaptations of pronghorns and their survival through Pleistocene predators.
- 1:59:31Jefferson’s Forgotten Southern Expedition
Narration of Thomas Jefferson’s lesser-known southern expedition, its planning, and its ultimate failure.
- 2:01:06Bison, Eagles, and National Symbolism
The conversation turns to the historical status of bison and bald eagles as national symbols and conservation efforts.
Highlights
- 3:58
First Magazine Salestory
The guest recounts selling his first piece about crows and ravens to Sports Afield as a college junior, receiving a $300 check and an instruction to buy a camera.
- 36:11
Decoding Human Foiblesinsight
The guest explains that Native American coyote stories use trickster plots to mirror human flaws like gluttony, narcissism, and vanity.
- 1:09:03
Mange as Weapondata
The guest details how the state of Montana passed an act in 1905 requiring state veterinarians to infect captured wolves and coyotes with sarcoptic mange.
- 1:33:20
Fish Infusion Adaptationstrategy
The guest explains how coyotes survive high-intensity culling by dispersing into singles and pairs, unlike wolves that stay in vulnerable packs.
- 1:41:48
The guest describes a 23,000-year-old footprint site at White Sands showing a teenager carrying a toddler, interacting with a rearing ground sloth.
- 2:19:10
Jeffersonian Southern Expeditionstory
The guest explains Thomas Jefferson's forgotten Red River expedition, which was twice as expensive as Lewis and Clark but turned back by Spanish troops.
- 2:33:38
De-Extinction via CRISPRstrategy
The guest explains how Colossal Biosciences used DNA extracted from 73,000-year-old dire wolf skulls and CRISPR to engineer modern genetic replicas.
Quotes
“For most of the last century, the federal government tried to erase one animal from the continent with poison, bounties, and money from Congress.”
AJ Gentile · 1:12 “A teenage girl, a toddler on her hip, a ground sloth rearing up when it catches her scent.”
AJ Gentile · 1:39 “Take me back to your, you're a junior in college, you're meeting with your creative writing professor and something ends up in Sports Afield.”
AJ Gentile · 2:07 “But the original check for that piece was $300.”
Unnamed speaker · 4:56 “The reason the coyote was picked is because it was seen as a survivor, and it was a survivor that lived by its wits.”
Unnamed speaker · 39:08 “The Wolves of North America. And it's basically a celebration of how we have wiped wolves off the face of the continent.”
Unnamed speaker · 58:57 “The only thing you can kind of argue is that, and you know, there's a very famous argument in about 2005, that maybe this is a possibility, that as humans arrive, they're bringing new pathogens with them that are infecting some of these animal populations.”
Unnamed speaker · 1:55:09 “10,000 years ago, when they were being pursued, really by fast hunting hyenas, and by American cheetahs.”
Unnamed speaker · 1:58:51 “Everyone's got a hard question about AI. Your job, your kids, where it's going.”
Unnamed speaker · 2:00:17 “Well, bison is the correct scientific name. But of course, I think what you're referring to is the fact that we think most of the animals that we manage to preserve do carry cattle genes.”
Unnamed speaker · 2:01:26
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About this episode
-Discover how to move your IRA or 401k into physical gold and silver — with no taxes or penalties. Get your free portfolio review and free gold & silver guide from GoldenCrest Metals: visit https://GoldenCrestMetals.com/thewhyfiles or call (888) 949-9172 now. -Head to https://superpower.com/basement for $50 off your membership. Get 150+ biomarkers tested every year plus a personalized health plan and on-demand care team. Detect early signs of 1,000+ conditions. #superpowerpod Dan Flores has spent his life chasing one animal: the one this country threw everything at and could not kill. Poison, bounties, half a billion dollars of taxpayer money, and today the coyote is in Central Park and closing in on South America. We get into wolves, mammoths, the footprints at White Sands, and the dire wolves Colossal brought back. Then Dan tells me about a chicken named Chickie. Stay for that one. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Transcript
26,616 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
Topics
- North America
- Louisiana
- Santa Fe
- Dire wolf
- Red River
- Strychnine
- Colossal
- Montana
- Yellowstone
- Bison
Page updated · transcript and summary are machine-generated