The Basement: Travis Taylor | Black Holes, UFOs & Skinwalker Ranch

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30AJ Gentile?

  Today, we're talking with Dr. Travis Taylor. He's written 25 science fiction novels. He holds five advanced degrees and wrote the textbooks on rocket science, laser science, and quantum field theory. He fueled a rocket with moonshine on National Geographic and spent 35 years on classified defense projects. Somehow, one guy did all that.

• 0:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, moonshine is the only fuel the government can't trace. That wasn't a stunt. That was tradecraft.

• 0:56AJ Gentile?

  When the government needed a scientist for a real UFO task force, they picked the redneck rocket scientist. Eight years later, he's still the lead scientist at Skid Walker Ranch. You've seen him on the show. Today, we're covering what he pulled out of that mesa and why a drone swarm fell out of the sky at 3,000 feet. Actually, 3,271 feet. All of them. I kind of wanted to tell you why, but you need to be surprised as I was. We also talked about his paper arguing that our universe sits inside a black hole, which means our entire universe is just a tiny black hole in somebody else's sky. The math works.

• 1:40AJ Gentile?

  Oh, a tribal leader called him to say the sky people are taking him inside that mesa at Skid Walker Ranch, but he refuses to remember. And he was like, fine. Then, two days later, a remote viewer told him the same thing.

• 1:54Speaker 03

  He goes inside the mesa and refuses to remember it? I spent 15 years trying to forget my second wife. This man has a gift.

• 2:03AJ Gentile?

  After a conversation, I'll come back and break down the talk. Let's go down to the basement.

• 2:13AJ Gentile?

  Dr. Travis Taylor, welcome to the basement.

• 2:15Speaker 04

  Thanks, man. You left out black belt martial artist.

• 2:19AJ Gentile?

  Did I?

• 2:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, scuba diver, pilot, you know, all that stuff.

• 2:23AJ Gentile?

  What system did you train in?

• 2:24Speaker 04

  Well, I've trained in two systems. Shinigami, which was American Taekwondo, and then White Tiger Kempo.

• 2:31AJ Gentile?

  I'm a Kempo myself.

• 2:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:32AJ Gentile?

  Four different systems.

• 2:33Speaker 04

  Wow, cool.

• 2:34AJ Gentile?

  Yep. That's great. Love to meet a Kempo guy. There's not a lot of us around.

• 2:38Speaker 04

  In 2000, I was the Alabama state champion in fighting.

• 2:42AJ Gentile?

  No kidding.

• 2:43Speaker 04

  In open fighting, yeah.

• 2:44AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 2:45Speaker 04

  That was a long time ago.

• 2:46AJ Gentile?

  Long time ago. My first black belt, I got from Nick Sirianni, who got his from Ed. And my fourth black belt, I got from Larry Tatum, who got his from Ed.

• 2:54Speaker 04

  Oh, nice.

• 2:55AJ Gentile?

  So it's great lineage. So I want to start with an apology. So last night, I'm talking to my wife Jen, and she's like, so are you ready for tomorrow? I said, I don't know, man. I don't know if I can keep up with Dr. Taylor. He's done so much. And she said, well, he emailed you. He's a fan of the show. I said, what? And two years ago, you sent me an email, and I never saw it. So I apologize for that. Some of it says it's about all the stuff I got wrong. I am that Travis Taylor, chief scientist at the UAP TF. 35 years DOD, ICA, NASA. I co-own a company now with Jay Stratton and Lou Alizondo, longtime friend, colleagues of Hal, but off kit, green, et cetera. By the way, you say if you believe in remote viewing or not, you should add a caveat that it's been scientifically proven

• 3:40AJ Gentile?

  and you think you understand the mechanism for how it works. Loved your episode on the aviary, but folks always get Hal wrong. Bigelow's work at Skid Walker that has or hasn't been found there. Modern UAP work is misunderstood. Big Art Bell fan, you were the first to analyze Art's parts back in the day with Art and Linda a few times. Wrote you back. So we're going to get to all that today. And then this morning, I get because I wrote you back, thank you for all that. You only come through Vegas before going to China Lake, NTS, and somewhere else. I guess we know where that is. Never stop to smell the strippers. We can fix that tonight. Can't wait to meet you, straighten you out in some nonsense you've been told. Dude, I can talk about anything. Nonsense.

• 4:25AJ Gentile?

  I want to get to all that today. All the stuff I got wrong. Because you were there for all of it, man.

• 4:30Speaker 04

  Well, if I wasn't there for all of it, I know the people who were firsthand. And so maybe I can help you put the pieces together.

• 4:37AJ Gentile?

  I'd like that. Everyone starts with Skid Walker with you, but I got to do this for me. I want to start with the universe in a black hole. Is that the paper you're working on?

• 4:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, so.

• 4:50AJ Gentile?

  For your next PhD, you need another one of those.

• 4:52Speaker 04

  Well, so, you know, a lot of people ask me why so many degrees, why all this, why I do all these different things. For the longest, I was trying to get in the astronaut program. And, you know, you look at, it's like Story Musgrave, for example. That guy's got umpteen master's degrees. He jumps out of planes at, you know, 30,000 feet and all sorts of things, you know, test pilot, all that stuff. And so I thought, well, if you got to compete with those guys, you really, you got to bring your A-game. And also, my goal, when I was a kid, I was about 10 years old. My dad, who was a master toolmaker, he brought me a book. It was a beat-up paperback book. And he said, son, I've been reading this. I think you would really enjoy it.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  Why don't you read it, and then we'll talk about it? And it was Eric Von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods.

• 5:41AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 5:42Speaker 04

  And so I read it, absorbed it, read it again, bent pages on it so that we could come back and talk about it. And my dad and I sensed that time for, you know, 48 years ago. We still, to this day, we discuss new ideas that we've discovered, say, in some religious text or theological book or even just a poem, somewhere written in history. And we say, well, that sounds a lot like that they're describing technology, you know, not and that's what got me into understanding the universe from the ancient alien sort of perspective. Giorgio Suclis liked to say ancient astronaut theory.

• 6:25Speaker 04

  I keep explaining to him, a theory has a much larger acceptance. This is a hypothesis.

• 6:31AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 6:31Speaker 04

  It is an ancient astronaut hypothesis. But that's okay. You know, he's not a scientist. He's a researcher. And I applaud everything that the guys have done, even if sometimes they go off in weird rabbit holes and lead you down a path that isn't the right answer. That's okay. That's how you learn, right? There's a, and the other reason, so not to skew too far. There was a, when it came out that I had been the chief scientist of the UAP task force, there was a guy who wrote a article in, I think it was the Washington Post. It said government, it says something like critics mystified or baffled by the government's choice of guy who believes in paranormal

• 7:16Speaker 04

  for the UAP task force chief scientist. I've never once said I believe in anything paranormal. I don't even like the word paranormal. Because if it's paranormal, paranormal means not within the universe. And if it's within the universe or if it's not within the universe, then how are we seeing it and studying it? Right? It's something that's happening. It's some, I don't believe in the word fringe because there's no such thing as fringe science. Science is science. If it's an unknown, you got to study it. But in that article, it even, the guy even went so far as to say his alleged education.

• 7:48AJ Gentile?

  Alleged?

• 7:49Speaker 04

  Alleged education.

• 7:50AJ Gentile?

  He didn't do his homework, man.

• 7:51Speaker 04

  And I'm like, you going to take pictures of my diplomas on my wall in my study at home? Or I'm sure my mom's got pictures of graduations. Not like other folks who claim they have master's degrees from somewhere and they can't even prove they went there. Not to get into that, but my point, my point about that is that, yeah, he didn't do his homework for a reason. And that's where there's somebody, there's an active source of people, whether it's an act of general conspiracy just culturally or there's officially something being driven to discredit anybody who's asking questions.

• 8:34Speaker 04

  For example, you know, Michael Shermer's a smart guy. He's a really smart guy. But his answer is always the skeptical answer from the start. And that's actually a violation of the scientific method.

• 8:47AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I think he's getting his directives from somewhere.

• 8:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I think that's the point. And that's what I'm going to, and I wanted to make a point about something. That's why I brought that up.

• 8:56AJ Gentile?

  There's a billboard near Wall Street that's been counting up the national debt since 1989. Seven digits back then. 14 now. We just crossed $39 trillion. And every few weeks, another trillion gets added. The 30-year Treasury is sitting near 5% right now, which means that the bond market itself is telling you it doesn't trust Washington to handle this. Historically speaking, there's only one way out of debt this size, and that's you inflate the currency and devalue what you owe. You want to know who's not waiting around to see where this goes? Foreign central banks. They're dumping dollars and buying gold at the fastest pace in decades. Real assets win in debt devaluation. Golden Crest metals can show you where to save into physical gold and silver,

• 9:40AJ Gentile?

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• 10:13Speaker 04

  I'll give you a real simple example so that you can use to explain to anybody. Let's say we have the videos have come out and somebody says, well, we believe we can show the why invoke UFOs. This could just be some phenomena airplane light glinting off of it, you know, as, as Will Smith said, light reflecting from Venus, right? Well, that's fine. That is a possible solution. It's not the only solution. What's the square root of four?

• 10:44AJ Gentile?

  Right, two?

• 10:45Speaker 04

  No, it's not. Square root of four is plus or minus two.

• 10:49AJ Gentile?

  That's true.

• 10:51Speaker 04

  Think about that because minus two times minus two.

• 10:53AJ Gentile?

  That's true.

• 10:54Speaker 04

  Is still four. There are two solutions to that question and either one are equally valid. So is it light reflecting off of swamp gas from Venus or whatever, you know, or could it be something else? If it is a solution, a viable solution, it is still a possibility that has to be investigated. And so that's why I wonder why there's something saying, well, don't look at that set of solutions. It's never minus two. It's always two.

• 11:24AJ Gentile?

  Right. That's the Collins Group.

• 11:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I, I, I, we call, we don't call, we don't know who they are, but within the task force, we called them the antibodies.

• 11:34AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 11:35Speaker 04

  And we would run into the antibodies often and we, just for asking questions, right? And, and the, when we became the official UAP task force, the National Defense Authority Authorization Act, NDA, of 2019 and 2020, gave us authority to be briefed at all classifications.

• 11:58AJ Gentile?

  At all.

• 11:59Speaker 04

  All classifications. So, and they didn't have to, they didn't have to brief us in and say, this is the technology, how it works, but if we asked them, was this you, they had to tell us by law, and it said that there's a felony if they didn't. And we had, we had multiple star officers tell us that they would commit the felony before telling us.

• 12:19AJ Gentile?

  Of course. Of course they would.

• 12:21Speaker 04

  So that to me, that is, they're admitting that they're going to break the law.

• 12:26AJ Gentile?

  It's treason.

• 12:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. Sorry, I got us off on a tangent.

• 12:30AJ Gentile?

  No, that's okay.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  But that's why, that's why I, I've tried to learn everything I possibly can, uh, since I was 17 years old, to get behind that door, to see these things, understand these things. And, and, and number one, what if we need to be doing something? We don't have an Avengers initiative.

• 12:46AJ Gentile?

  Right. That's true. That's on my list is when you were 17, how you worked on SDI, but black holes.

• 12:54Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:55AJ Gentile?

  Um, archapathria, it said universes of black hole in the seventies. We've got Poplowski in the 2010s. So this is not new, but your paper, I think, says our universe could fit into like five to 10 solar masses.

• 13:12Speaker 04

  Yes. So, uh, the, the paper that I, it's really weird how it came about. I was actually working on a simulation hypothesis presentation for a conference. I forget which conference it was. And I was looking at world maps of video games.

• 13:27AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 13:28Speaker 04

  Like say Minecraft, you got the square world map or, you know, whatever, and, and how they worked. And I realized that since you couldn't go, they weren't like the old Atari in Asteroids where you go off this side and you come back on this side, right? Uh, you know, that, that's actually a sphere. People don't realize that. But I was looking at the world map and I realized you can't go outside the boundaries of that. And so the video game itself has an event horizon. Okay. That hit my, and at the same time, I pulled a picture that was made by a cosmology group. You can, anybody can go find it. It's a circle that shows sort of a logarithmic plot across time and space to the edge of our universe.

• 14:11Speaker 04

  And it's a big circle and shows we're somewhere near the middle and you get, and then you got the giant galaxies that, when they were beginning to form and all this out at the edge of time, when the big bang allegedly occurred. And there's nothing beyond that circle that you can see. And I looked at it and said, well, this is exactly the same world map as in Minecraft. There's an event horizon.

• 14:29AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 14:30Speaker 04

  On our world map that we can't see beyond. And I said, the only thing that I know of like that, that has an event horizon that traps all the information on the inside of it is a black hole. And then I realized, well, Stephen Hawking, uh, actually, uh, wrote, wrote a paper, uh, with the guy named Beckenstein, uh, that black holes actually do emit a certain amount of radiation, but it's so tiny that, uh, the amount of radiation, it's such a long wavelength and so low energy, we can't build detectors to detect it. So it'll be decades before anybody can prove or disprove Hawking's concept, his hypothesis. But it matches with the math and everything. It's probably true. It's just, we can't prove it for a long time till we get better at building instruments.

• 15:15Speaker 04

  Uh, but I realized, I said, well, if there's energy leaking out of this black hole, well, then, uh, that energy is a signature of what's inside it. And so you know how you can take, um, your radio dial in your car back in the old days when you could turn it, you could see all the numbers there? That's the frequency spectrum of all the transmissions your radio can do, right? At, in time, it sends a signal, but across the frequencies, you can see all these spots on the dial. Well, I thought, now what if the signal, if we look at its spectrum, if it tells us all the information that's inside, uh, coming from the inside of the black hole?

• 15:55Speaker 04

  And when I did, uh, certain types of math, it let me reproduce what we see as modern cosmology running backwards, uh, from the outside looking in. So in other words, we believe, we have models of our universe, right? Going this way, expanding outward, uh, from the big bang. Well, in a black hole, if you look at it from the outside in, time's reversed and it would be falling inward. And I thought, well, now that's an interesting corollary. And so I used all the, the math from Hawking and everything and, and I, and I ran a bunch and it took me a lot, it's such long Python code that it took me forever. I had to vibe code a lot of it with the, you know, chat GPT because I'm not a supercomputer

• 16:39Speaker 04

  hacker, you know? But you have to always go back and make sure the math is right because, you know, AI will, will give you fake stuff.

• 16:45AJ Gentile?

  It will.

• 16:46Speaker 04

  Um, but anyway, so once I ran the models over and over and over and convinced myself that the code was right, it showed that any, any black hole between five and 10 solar masses should have similar cosmology as our, our universe, which suggests, now I'm not saying it proves it, but it suggests that we live in a black hole that's about somewhere between five and 10 solar masses. And my model stopped somewhere about 7.2 solar masses.

• 17:14AJ Gentile?

  So Poplowski said that, that we would inherit the characteristics and spin of our parent black hole, but what I can't square is the source child radius.

• 17:23Speaker 04

  Well, so, uh, the source child radius is always something you see from the outside.

• 17:28AJ Gentile?

  Oh.

• 17:29Speaker 04

  That's the event horizon. So that's, we don't, we can't go past it. We, we can't get out that.

• 17:35AJ Gentile?

  Well, explain source child for, for the folks listening.

• 17:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, uh, if you, uh, take a, a amount of mass and you squish it as, as small as you can make it, there is a radius around it, spherically, uh, make, makes a, you know, a virtual sphere, say a geometric sphere around it. And at that radius is, is the race where light can't even escape the gravitational attraction. Even light will fall in right there. So there's no way, unless maybe you have a warp drive that you could escape or quantum tunneling.

• 18:06AJ Gentile?

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• 18:50AJ Gentile?

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• 19:11Speaker 04

  And so the interesting parallel though, AJ, when I was doing this was it led back to my simulation hypothesis presentation because, uh, like Elon Musk has said that he believed, that he doesn't believe there's any chance that we're in the prime universe, that we're in a nested simulation.

• 19:30AJ Gentile?

  One in billions.

• 19:31Speaker 04

  A simulation within simulation within simulation. Well, look across our cosmology, how many black holes there are. And within our universe, we see black holes everywhere, right? And, uh, and if we're in a black hole, that means that there are black holes in our black hole. And those black holes probably have black holes in those black holes. And those black holes will have holes in those black holes and it's turtles all the way down and all the way up.

• 19:56AJ Gentile?

  So could our universe be a black hole in someone else's sky?

• 19:58Speaker 04

  Yes. That's, that's the point. It's turtles all the way down and all the way up.

• 20:03AJ Gentile?

  Do you know Lee Smolin's work at all?

• 20:05Speaker 04

  That name sounds really familiar. I'm not sure.

• 20:08AJ Gentile?

  His theory is cosmological natural selection where if the universe is a black hole, it's always looking for ways to just create more of them. It's almost like the anthropic principle, but on the black hole level.

• 20:18Speaker 04

  Wow. Yeah, well, that's, I mean, that gives it sort of a, a purpose, an intent, like, like the Genesis device.

• 20:24AJ Gentile?

  It almost sounds intentional.

• 20:26Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, so.

• 20:29Speaker 04

  If you want to talk about intent.

• 20:30AJ Gentile?

  Let's do it. We'll get the skinwalker.

• 20:33Speaker 04

  I, I've, we got time. So I did a, um, this is really interesting. There are two things and one of them I won't talk about, but there are two things that I've got. Chat GPT to bring up a warning banner and says it won't, don't go any further on it. And then why this one is so odd. I wanted to prove, I wanted to go through the probability that evolution could occur.

• 20:52AJ Gentile?

  It wouldn't let you do this?

• 20:53Speaker 04

  I got to the model. So I started, we started creating a model. It's called a heuristic model, basically the probability of this and then the probability of that. It's basically like the Drake equation.

• 21:02AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 21:02Speaker 04

  But for evolution, right? But I just kept getting it more and more complex and more and more complex and more and more complex. Until we got to the point where I said, now, uh, now run the probabilities of this. And, uh, and, and it, and it ran the probabilities and showed that it, there's no way within, uh, many, uh, like hundreds, it's like a hundred to a hundred to a hundred to a hundred orders of magnitude. That the universe had to be that old for it to have happened. And I said, then the only way it could have happened was through engineering intent. That someone changed something in the model. And then a banner come up and said, this is getting into, uh, theological, uh, uh, discrediting or something.

• 21:46Speaker 04

  And, and it, and it said, we can't discuss this any further.

• 21:49AJ Gentile?

  Now, hold on, change something in the model. Epoch transitions is a thing.

• 21:54Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:55AJ Gentile?

  So it, Chat GPT doesn't know that?

• 21:57Speaker 04

  Well, but see, that's, that's not, uh, that the, the epoch, uh, changes the, from the radiation dominant to the matter dominant to the dark matter dominant, all that. Um, which is actually interesting in my black hole paper. It, that's actually is a, an effect.

• 22:13AJ Gentile?

  It is?

• 22:13Speaker 04

  Yes, it actually should have happened according, and so, uh, but, uh, something, somebody changed something in the matrix, right? And, uh, well, Chat GPT won't, doesn't want to accept, the AI doesn't want to accept. Uh, and I've tried it with Grok too, and with, and with deep seeking all, so it's not just, I'm not picking on OpenAI, you know, all of them.

• 22:33AJ Gentile?

  You tried it with like Kimmy and?

• 22:34Speaker 04

  I, I've, I've tried it with Claude. I have, I haven't, I've tried it with Claude, DeepSeek, uh, Grok and, uh, ChatGPT. And, um, uh, they all come with the same answer that it's impossible.

• 22:46Speaker 04

  That something, somebody had to change, had to make some glitch, change something, right? Uh, for it to go down this path because there's so many infinite bifurcations for the probability. And you know, that's, you know, it, it doesn't violate your religion in any way, right? I mean, anybody's religion, they say God, God created people. Well, or whatever the universe. Well, this is how he did it.

• 23:09AJ Gentile?

  Right. Simulation theory and religion is the same thing.

• 23:12Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's, I can't tell people all the time, if I'm going to create a universe, am I going to go get a cauldron? And start putting in like, you know, witches brew stuff and hope it blows up and creates the thing I want? Or am I going to get in an environment where I can control everything? Which is a computer simulation environment where I can create a physics engine? And have Mario jump as high as he can jump and run his, stand on one toenail at the edge of a, of a, of a cliff, you know, do whatever. And I can control that. And if I don't like the way it's working, I can hit the pause button and change a subroutine here or there.

• 23:45AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 23:45Speaker 04

  And start it back up.

• 23:46AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 23:47Speaker 04

  That sounds a lot like the epochs that we just talked about.

• 23:49AJ Gentile?

  It sure does. I bring up all the time on this show is, uh, Philip K. Dick's talk in Metz and seventy seven.

• 23:55Speaker 04

  That is one of the greatest, every, every, they should make every person in high school watch that speech.

• 24:01AJ Gentile?

  Agreed.

• 24:01Speaker 04

  Philip K. Dick's speech is the most powerful speech by a man who spent his life writing art. Where you're making stories, science fiction stories. And, uh, you know, people, Blade Runner, for everybody knows what Blade Runner is, right? Uh, but Philip K. Dick, uh, his stories. When you hear that speech and he, he's telling you, they aren't stories.

• 24:24AJ Gentile?

  It's not science fiction.

• 24:25Speaker 04

  They're my memories.

• 24:26AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 24:26Speaker 04

  Of an alternate reality that for some reason I can still remember and everybody else has forgotten.

• 24:31AJ Gentile?

  You see the faces in the crowd?

• 24:32Speaker 04

  Oh, you, they're like, and what, what's great though, because it's in, in, in Paris or wherever it is, it's in French, right?

• 24:38AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 24:38Speaker 04

  And, and you hear the translator going, and then you, then you hear the, oh, the murmuring, everything.

• 24:44AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 24:44Speaker 04

  It, that is, that is one of the most fascinating speeches in the history of mankind, I think.

• 24:50AJ Gentile?

  Yeah. He talks about man in the high castle. He said, I just remembered this, that the Axis won the war.

• 24:55Speaker 04

  When he talks about the lady that, that comes to visit him.

• 24:58AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 24:59Speaker 04

  That is bizarre and fantastic at the same time.

• 25:02AJ Gentile?

  Yeah. And I believe him.

• 25:04Speaker 04

  I, I don't think he had any reason to bring it up.

• 25:05AJ Gentile?

  Nope.

• 25:06Speaker 04

  Unless it was some kind of weird, bizarre, you know, hallucinogenic trip that he'd been on or something, but, uh, I, I don't, he didn't, his writing didn't portray that.

• 25:15AJ Gentile?

  No, it didn't.

• 25:16Speaker 04

  It was very matter of fact.

• 25:19AJ Gentile?

  Absolutely was.

• 25:19Speaker 04

  And, and, and for that speech, he believed, you could see, unless he's the best actor in the world. Unless he's like, you know, George C. Scott or something, right? That he believed every word he was saying. And I, I think everybody should watch that speech because it's just unbelievable and fantastic.

• 25:35AJ Gentile?

  Totally agree. How does your, um, your black hole theory and your thoughts of simulation dovetail into your study of the Gnostic texts?

• 25:44Speaker 04

  Well, I think they're one and the same.

• 25:47Speaker 04

  I think the Gnostic text and not just the Gnostic text, but, uh, other ancient texts, the, the Mahabharata, Bhagavad Gita, uh, uh, various other, uh, Taoist, uh, texts. I think they're all telling us the same stories. Uh, but the Gnostic texts specifically spell it out in great detail. Uh, you know, the Apocrypha of John, the book of Philip, uh, they, they, they talk specifically about, uh, the universe before, uh, this all-loving being. Uh, and then he creates sort of a, a companion being who gets bored out there in the infinite and creates a shadow universe.

• 26:27AJ Gentile?

  So that's Sophia getting bored.

• 26:29Speaker 04

  Sophia.

• 26:29AJ Gentile?

  Wisdom.

• 26:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:30AJ Gentile?

  Getting bored.

• 26:31Speaker 04

  Yeah. So Sophia is, you know, according to the Gnostic, you know, text, uh, is, I guess that we call, we, we use Sophia, I guess, because we think she's female or there's a female aspect to it, feminine aspect, but she's an explorer and goes through all of the heavens, which is called, it's called the Pleroma in the Gnostic text. And she gets bored, so she creates a place to go and have adventures in, I guess. Um, but when she creates this dark realm out of the shadows, so the, uh, matter is apparently the shadow of the light beings of the Pleroma. And when she creates it, this other being appears and, and it's real vague to me how the Gnostic texts, or at least I interpret it, did she cause this being, this dark being to occur?

• 27:17Speaker 04

  Or did it just manifest? And it's, and it's called, uh, the name is like Yalda Bouth, uh, also referred to as the Demiurge. And the Demiurge is the god of the shadow world and believes he is the only, the god, right?

• 27:30AJ Gentile?

  But he's not.

• 27:31Speaker 04

  Yeah. But he's also a petty god, right? He, uh, because he, he doesn't want anyone to think that they're more powerful than him or whatever. And he creates these demons, the Archons to, uh, uh, to, basically like agents to do jobs, right? For him. Uh, and I find it really interesting because, uh, it sounds just like in the books of Enoch. Uh, where the all high has all these other deities, these, these angels or, uh, archangels or whatever to, to do certain jobs, like one of them controls the weather, one of them controls this, one of them. That sounds just like in a, in a video game simulation architecture. You have subroutines and agents to do all these different things, right?

• 28:11AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 28:12Speaker 04

  And, uh, I think the, the Gnostic, then the, in the Gnostic text, uh, uh, the, the interesting part to me is uh, how Sophia saw these beings that, uh, the Demiurge was creating out of the shadow of the matter. And they didn't have a spark of life. So she splits herself into infinite pieces, goes into this dark universe and puts a piece of her in all the beings, basically the soul. And in Apocrypha of John, the Last Supper is a completely different Last Supper than the one I was taught in Sunday school.

• 28:44AJ Gentile?

  In what way?

• 28:45Speaker 04

  Well, so Jesus doesn't come there and tell them that he's there to save all of the sins of mankind.

• 28:52AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 28:54Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, he, what, what happens is he tells the apostles that he is from the Pleroma.

• 29:01Speaker 04

  And to get back, you have to go through the Monad or become one with the Monad, whatever that means, right? It's a doorway, is it a, you know, your, your pineal gland, you know, whatever, I don't know. Uh, but he, but he says that, uh, the only way to get there is to be true to yourself and within, you don't need to go to a church. He actually tells them.

• 29:20AJ Gentile?

  Right. God is, God isn't there.

• 29:21Speaker 04

  God is not in that church. It's in you. Yes. And he says, I'm here to return, basically his mother, Sophia, all the sparks of her back to the Pleroma. And that's completely different than what I was told in Sunday school.

• 29:35AJ Gentile?

  Yeah. They buried it for a reason.

• 29:37Speaker 04

  I, well, that leads me to think at that point that the stories that Paul, uh, rewrote the Bible, uh, basically on his business purposes.

• 29:48AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 29:48Speaker 04

  Uh, is, is probably true. Because he wrote it in a way that you have to come to the church. You have to sacrifice for the church. You have to be submissive to the church. And that puts the church, what? Oh, in control.

• 30:02AJ Gentile?

  In control.

• 30:03Speaker 04

  Right? When, when Jesus, according to the Gnostic texts, said, the church isn't in control of anything. You are in control. You have to reflect inward and be in control of yourself. And, and that is completely opposite to the story that most of the religions are telling us.

• 30:18AJ Gentile?

  Right. Remember when, um, the full Bible was found in Ethiopia all those years ago?

• 30:23Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 30:23AJ Gentile?

  And they said, and, and he said, what, what is all this? And they said, that's the Bible. He said, there's too many books here. Book of Enoch, Philip is in there, all this stuff. They're like, no, this is the Bible. In three sixty seven, they took all, they threw all this away.

• 30:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:34AJ Gentile?

  Buried it. And now this is the Bible.

• 30:37Speaker 04

  Well, I want to know who those people were in, in the three sixties, three sixty four, three sixty seven. There was, there was a, the, like, three or four years where they sat there and said, well, this book we, we, we use, this book we won't use. Why?

• 30:48AJ Gentile?

  Why?

• 30:48Speaker 04

  Why? Why would they say, take out, for example, Jesus telling, uh, the apostles in, in the, uh, book Apocrypha of John, how to see the, the, the Demiurge's Archons, right? He, it's written, now, this is really interesting. Uh, and it's actually become an interesting experiment for Skinwalker Ranch, which I know we're going to get to.

• 31:07AJ Gentile?

  We're going to get to.

• 31:08Speaker 04

  Uh, but he tells them that you can see the Archons through your peripheral vision.

• 31:14AJ Gentile?

  Oh.

• 31:15Speaker 04

  And the interesting thing about that is he actually explains it. He says, because your eyes can see different light in your peripheral vision than straight on. He said, don't turn to look at them or you won't see them.

• 31:30Speaker 04

  And we now know that your peripheral vision can see further into the infrared than the center part of your eye. And how did he know that? Whoever wrote, even if it's a fictional story, written, you know, 2,000 years ago, how did he know 2,000 years ago? Number one, about infrared light.

• 31:49AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 31:50Speaker 04

  And number two, that your eyes work better for infrared light with your peripheral vision. So, somebody knew something to tell this story, whether it's real or not. And that, to me, is at least enough evidence that somebody knew something that the rest of the world did not know. How?

• 32:08AJ Gentile?

  How? You hire a shark as your lifeguard. Technically, he's watching the water, just not for the reason you'd hope. There's a reason you wouldn't hire a shark to keep you safe in the ocean, just like there's a reason why Morgan & Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. Here's the truth behind the name. Founder John Morgan started this firm after his brother Tim was catastrophically injured as a teenager working at Disney World. Tim's case got mishandled, and John walked away knowing the system was rigged against families who couldn't fight back. So, he built something better. For over 35 years, Morgan & Morgan has fought for the people, going up against powerful companies who'd rather your case just quietly disappear. Compassion, transparency, no upfront fees. Hiring them is like hiring an army for battle.

• 32:51AJ Gentile?

  Over 1,000 lawyers, 100 offices, all 50 states, making sure your file never vanishes. That's part of how they've recovered more than $30 billion for their clients. Not all law firms are the same. Hire the wrong one, and you may be beat before you even start. If you're ever injured, you can check out Morgan & Morgan, and their fee is free unless they win. For more information, you can go to forthepeople.com/y. So, if we're, if our universe is inside this veil, do you think there's other universes like ours with their own veils? With their own...

• 33:27Speaker 04

  You ever played video games on a server?

• 33:30AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 33:31Speaker 04

  Well, and you go to the lobby?

• 33:33AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 33:34Speaker 04

  Uh, like, you know, uh, Roblox, for example. There's 14 doors, right? You can go in this door, and you play that Titanic game. Or you can go in this door, and it's some kind of parkour game. Or you can play this game, and it's a, uh, player versus player game, right? Well, if you heard the story of, uh, Vishnu, right? The, uh, from the Hindu texts. Vishnu, uh, as Vishnu would breathe, exhale, or sweat, each little bead of moisture would become a new universe. And Vishnu would then, uh, take on different avatars in these different universes and have adventures.

• 34:11AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 34:12Speaker 04

  Sounds a lot like that lobby we were just talking about.

• 34:14AJ Gentile?

  It does.

• 34:15Speaker 04

  But I always wondered if Vishnu is just the ga- game console.

• 34:17AJ Gentile?

  Wow, it sounds like it.

• 34:19Speaker 04

  Right?

• 34:20AJ Gentile?

  So, that would mean that, that all these universes is really all the same spark, right?

• 34:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:26AJ Gentile?

  It's all the same source.

• 34:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, so who made it?

• 34:28AJ Gentile?

  I don't know. Who made it?

• 34:30Speaker 04

  Where is it?

• 34:31AJ Gentile?

  Where is it? Yeah, if there's the edge of the universe, there's gotta be something else out there, but you could ask theologians and physicists, and you get weird answers, man.

• 34:39Speaker 04

  Well, because it, it, it sort of violates their sense of sensibility, like, uh, the ancient one told Doctor Strange in, uh, in Doctor Strange, right? Uh, is that if, if, if a spell, uh, upsets your senses, then call it an algorithm, right?

• 34:56AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 34:57Speaker 04

  We, we, we put too much emphasis on, "It sounds like something that offends me." Right? Well, science isn't offensive. Science is just there. I mean, it's just a thing. It's why there's no such thing as fringe science, right? There's no- nowhere in the scientific method is the word fringe. Uh, nowhere in the, nowhere, and this is, I, I will get up on anybody's soapbox and beat it with a hammer.

• 35:18AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 35:19Speaker 04

  Nowhere does it say anything about extraordinary evidence. Never in the scientific method is the word extraordinary evidence used. The Carl Sagan did a huge disservice to humanity by making that statement.

• 35:31AJ Gentile?

  He did.

• 35:32Speaker 04

  That, uh, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. No. Extraordinary recl- extraordinary claims require you to follow the scientific method. Any evidence is evidence in the scientific method that must be analyzed. And when you, uh, do all, add all the evidence together, do all the analysis, that's when you can maybe, uh, support or discredit the claim, the extraordinary claim. Has nothing to do with extraordinary evidence. It sounds to me like, uh, people say he had a, a change of heart or something at some point, like they got to him.

• 36:04AJ Gentile?

  I think so. Um, because he was a, he was a UFO believer, and then he wasn't.

• 36:10Speaker 04

  You read that book that he wrote with the Russian guy, uh, on, um, I forget the name of the book, but it's, it was before, way before Cosmos.

• 36:16AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:17Speaker 04

  And it was basically studying the Drake equation, and about the lot, possibility of life and everything, and they're all like, "Well, yeah, there's, it's gotta be, everywhere." Right? And then suddenly, "Oh, no, I don't think there's life out there. It is, uh, it's probably not, and there's no UFOs." And you can watch even speeches that he did, where he said, "Uh, UFOs should be investigated." And then, "Oh, nah, there's nothing to it." Right? So, it does sound like a lot of the conspiracy stuff that we hear, right? That somebody got to him.

• 36:41AJ Gentile?

  It does.

• 36:42Speaker 04

  Maybe, maybe they offered him something. Well, one way or the other, if I hear scientists use that statement, I always, number one, do a knee-jerk reaction and say, "Who taught you that? Where did that come from? That's not the scientific method. Go back and read the scientific method." And, and, uh, and so it, I, I absolutely, I, you know, I might make extraordinary claims because I'm from the South. We speak in, uh, uh, we, we, we speak in, in, uh, hyperbole and euphemisms and all sorts of, uh, exaggerations, right? But I, I never say it as a, "It's the fact," right? Or it's the thing, it's a, you know, I may say, "Holy crap, what is that?"

• 37:26Speaker 04

  But, uh, uh, then I might say, "Oh, well, it was just one of these." But then I might say, "Wow, it's one of those."

• 37:31AJ Gentile?

  Has your doctoral committee seen your paper yet?

• 37:35Speaker 04

  Uh, no, the, uh, one, one of my advisors has. The entire committee has not.

• 37:40AJ Gentile?

  And what do they, what does he think?

• 37:42Speaker 04

  He said it was abo- he said it was above him, actually.

• 37:44AJ Gentile?

  Really?

• 37:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:46AJ Gentile?

  I can't wait to read it.

• 37:49Speaker 04

  Uh, I'll send you a copy of it. It's, it's a lot of, uh, it's a lot of, you know, quantum field theory and general relativity kinda, uh, and thermodynamics thrown together. It's a lot of graduate-level math, but that's the way most scientific papers are. It's, it's all math, and unless you understand the math, it, it doesn't mean a lot to you. I always, uh, my first PhD, uh, committee chairman, he told me, he took me to, uh, before I did my final defense, took me to an elementary school and had me present my work to the third graders. And he said, "If you can't explain it to a third grader, you don't understand it."

• 38:24AJ Gentile?

  That makes a lot of sense to me.

• 38:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, and so, think about this, if, if, if the phenomena is a strange effect in a, just a weird mathematical formula, how in the hell do you explain that to a third grader? You have to really, really, really think about it, and really try to understand what it really means, you know, effectively, to explain it that way. And, uh, so, are we in a black hole? So, I'm not the first person to say it, like you said. But I think that if you do the math, you can narrow down on what kind of black hole we live in. And what's interesting is black holes outside of that five to 10 solar masses, they got different physics in their universes.

• 39:08AJ Gentile?

  Different physics.

• 39:09Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 39:10AJ Gentile?

  To different constants.

• 39:11Speaker 04

  A different, yes, different cosmology completely. So, who, what kind of things are going on in those big black holes or smaller black holes? So, every black hole isn't gonna create a universe like ours, just those in that certain mass range. And so, I find that really intriguing. It creates a, an infinite, uh, sort of possibility of, of types of physics and beings that could occur.

• 39:35AJ Gentile?

  It does. Um, I don't know if you are aware of the Jade project from last year, James Webb?

• 39:41Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 39:42AJ Gentile?

  They found that, they looked at all the, the, like, the far-field galaxies, and 2/3 of them are spinning the same way, and it shouldn't work like that.

• 39:49Speaker 04

  Right.

• 39:50AJ Gentile?

  Why?

• 39:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a good question, why? So, you know, you, you actually, I've been thinking about that, actually, and you said something a few minutes ago that could possibly explain it. That, uh, the black hole, if there are black holes created within it, it should have, uh, some chiralty, or it will, if it has spin on the outside?

• 40:13AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 40:14Speaker 04

  Then that should translate somehow to the inside.

• 40:16AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 40:17Speaker 04

  Well, what if our black hole was spinning with a certain angular momentum that's causing the majority of the galaxies in our black hole to spin in a certain way?

• 40:27AJ Gentile?

  That's why I brought it up because there's a lot of these studies that seem to point to your paper.

• 40:31Speaker 04

  I'm excited about it. I really think there's something to it. I mean, I'm not saying that it's a Nobel Prize winning kind of stuff, but I think it's something unique and new that we can actually, if we start finding a way to peer into, we can actually get information inside a black hole now, right? And I find that intriguing. Now, I did something fun. I created a model black hole in IBM's quantum computer, the one called FES. And then I created a wormhole. And I put one end outside the black hole and one end inside the black hole.

• 41:11AJ Gentile?

  Oh, that's a lot of math.

• 41:13Speaker 04

  It was hard to write the code, too, and didn't work in the computer. Now, I'm not saying I actually built these. They weren't real black holes, but it was a simulation of a black hole in the quantum computer. And I could actually send entangled photons from within the black hole to the outside, and I could send information from within the black hole.

• 41:33AJ Gentile?

  And they would stay entangled?

• 41:34Speaker 04

  And they would stay entangled. Now, that's just, it's an interesting simulation until I can figure out a way to do more with it, right? But it's, you think about these things, we don't know how the universe works. We don't know how everything, so if you say you can't do something like, I was gonna make this point earlier about when I was talking about the square root of four, Shermer has always said that you can't go faster than the speed of light. You can't do these things. Oh, and to say that these UFOs and these videos, if they were going at the speed that we're saying they're going, they would make sonic booms and all these, rip the air apart and all, set the air on fire, all this stuff. Well, that's one solution.

• 42:17Speaker 04

  But if you understand the physics of warp theory and general relativity, there was a paper written in 1999 that is called, the paper's actually called "A View From The Bridge", because they were trying to see if Captain Kirk could actually get information from inside the warp bubble. And what they found was that information can't penetrate the front or the back of the bubble. That it creates an impenetrable information barrier, and so anything would just move around it without interacting with it. So if there's a warp bubble moving through our atmosphere, the atmosphere's just gonna move out of the way. It's not gonna need to make a sonic boom. It's not gonna rip the air apart. The air's just gonna act like it's not there.

• 42:56AJ Gentile?

  Right. It's almost like a micro-universe.

• 42:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's exactly it. It's a pocket universe, what I call it.

• 43:00AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 43:00Speaker 04

  Yeah. And so the question there is, does Shermer not know general relativity at all? I'm sure he's a smart guy.

• 43:08AJ Gentile?

  He knows.

• 43:09Speaker 04

  So, and I know Abby Loeb does, and they're buddies. I mean, so why do they say things like that? Why do they say things like that? Just to say, well, that can't happen. If that was there, it would rip the air apart, set the atmosphere on fire. Or, or, what if it was a warp bubble?

• 43:28AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 43:29Speaker 04

  And it was following the laws of physics as we understand them?

• 43:32AJ Gentile?

  We see it happen in water, too.

• 43:33Speaker 04

  Yes. Oh, there was a, you know, there was a project that DARPA did back in the 80s called Warp, Project Warp Theory, or Warp Drive, Project Warp Drive. And it was, they basically made a submarine that looked like a narwhal, and the big nose out on the submarine had little pockets, little bubbles in, I mean, holes in it, and they would put out nitrogen gas and create bubbles, air bubbles, little bitty air bubbles that would go around, create a warp bubble of bubbles around the submarine, so it would reduce the density of the water.

• 44:07AJ Gentile?

  That's right, the cavitation project. I remember this.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  And so it could go faster

• 44:11AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 44:11Speaker 04

  than a submarine in water could go, it would go faster than the speed of sound in water, right, potentially, which is a warp bubble, but a warp in the water, in hydrodynamics, not in, you know, spacetime dynamics. But, so what? I mean, that's a neat idea. It's the same idea, it's just doing it in a different way. We don't know how to create those little bubbles yet, you know, to do a real warp drive.

• 44:37AJ Gentile?

  Why do you think they're keeping it from us?

• 44:39Speaker 04

  I don't know who they are.

• 44:42AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, it always comes down to who they are.

• 44:45Speaker 04

  Yeah. And so, I, you know, even if, we put in the, I don't think it made it. I think there were some antibodies that edited out the first report that the UAP task force did back in like 21 or 2, I forget the year. We had a page in there that said, "It's either us in a classified project that for some reason didn't reveal itself to us," right, which we rated as very low probability because we had access, right? It's a near peer, you know, China or Russia, but our intelligence network hasn't given us any information that it was that. It's Mother Nature doing something new that we've never seen before, which is possible

• 45:29Speaker 04

  for some of them, but not for all of them, right? The ones that look like actual things is unlikely to be ball lightning, right? And then there's an oligarch or a group of oligarchs that are outside of, working outside of the law or outside of any control, which would require a lot of coordination and a lot of resources, which a lot of them have, right? Or it was something else. And we didn't even say aliens, angels, demons. We left that alone. We just said it was something else. And that whole list of things got removed from the report. And I, why? Why would you even, because we were just showing that, we were saying there

• 46:12Speaker 04

  are all these possible solutions. It's like, square root of four is two and minus two, right? That's all we were saying.

• 46:19AJ Gentile?

  Who has the authority to do that?

• 46:20Speaker 04

  That's the question, right?

• 46:23AJ Gentile?

  It's Pentagon.

• 46:24Speaker 04

  Well, so Jay Stratton was a two-star admiral equivalent civilian Dyson, Defense Intelligence Senior Leader, right? Two-star equivalent. I was a GS-15 equivalent. And we had, so there was another, another sort of partner that was working for what is now Space Force. It wasn't Space Force then, but, and he was a one-star equivalent. So we had some muscle.

• 46:49AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 46:50Speaker 04

  And we had, you know, the senior members of the CIC and HIPSE on board. I mean, Rubio was our biggest fan.

• 46:57AJ Gentile?

  Yep. Those are the committees.

• 46:59Speaker 04

  Yeah. And so I don't understand who would have the power over them to keep us from, you know, putting certain things in the report.

• 47:10AJ Gentile?

  But there's always, there's an answer to that. Like, who called you, Marco? Because someone made a call. We just need to trace where those calls end, but we can never get there.

• 47:23Speaker 04

  Well, you know, Representative Burchett just told me that. Tim is a great guy from Knoxville, Tennessee.

• 47:31AJ Gentile?

  He's a hecklefish fan.

• 47:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a good guy, man. So funny, he invited Jay Stratton and I to go to his house and brief him on all this. And so we drove up to Knoxville from Huntsville, Alabama. Jay moved to Huntsville after we started hanging out together. He liked it, but anyway, we drove up to see Congressman Burchett, and he comes out on the front porch and cut off blue jean shorts.

• 47:59AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no. And his daisy dukes?

• 48:01Speaker 04

  Cowboy boots, right? He's got his firearm on his side and a Tennessee Vols golf shirt, right? And he comes out and he takes us in the house, shows us all of his World War II firearms that his dad had got him or what, got out when he was there, whatever. But anyway, and we briefed him, and he said that when you get there, you're there, you have all these great intentions or whatever, and you get there and realize that there's, he said, "They will not let you do anything." And we were like, well, who's "they"? And he says, "The system."

• 48:35AJ Gentile?

  Hmm.

• 48:36Speaker 04

  And I don't know if he actually knows if there's a "they" to the system.

• 48:43AJ Gentile?

  I don't think he knows.

• 48:44Speaker 04

  I don't think he does. I think it's basically, everybody says, "Oh, you can't do that. You can't tell anybody. You can't do this. You can't do that." And I think they just accept it, right? Our elected officials can't even do what we've elected them to do because of whatever this "they" or this "system" is. And that's probably what, you know, we call the deep state or administrative state, all these different things that gets in the political realm. And I'm not talking about politics. I'm just talking about, in general, humanity wanting to know what their leaders are doing for them.

• 49:23AJ Gentile?

  Humanity's the problem because whether it's Burchett or somebody else, you get a phone call that says, "Do you want to know about aliens? Do you want to get re-elected?"

• 49:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, I suspect that's right.

• 49:31AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 49:32Speaker 04

  I have a feeling that that's exactly right. I mean, I had, I had pushback when Jay invited me to be on the UAP task force.

• 49:42AJ Gentile?

  Pushback from?

• 49:43Speaker 04

  So my boss was a one-star equivalent for the Army, so he would've been a one-star general equivalent. Now, I had done some work for the three-star that was over him before, but in a way that he didn't actually know my name. He just knew that there was somebody under him doing work, right? But Jay called, I had to actually literally call my boss and say, at the Army, and say, "We need Travis for the inter-agency task force." It wasn't called UAP task force yet.

• 50:13AJ Gentile?

  This is pre-Aero?

• 50:15Speaker 04

  Oh, wait, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jay and I retired, and then Aero became.

• 50:19AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 50:20Speaker 04

  All right. So we retired because we realized we couldn't get anywhere.

• 50:26AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 50:26Speaker 04

  Right? And we kept getting doors shut in our face. So anyway, my boss was like, "Well, why do you need Travis? You know, why do you need him?" And he said, he's, and so Jay told, it's funny, Jay's exact words to him was, "Because Travis is the only guy that can understand the physics and knows how to build shit." That's exactly what he told him. Because, you know, I grew up building stuff and

• 50:52AJ Gentile?

  We all watched it on TV.

• 50:54Speaker 04

  And our goal was to figure out if there was a heritage, a legacy, reverse engineering program, and to get into it and see why there was no progress.

• 51:10Speaker 04

  And, and, and, and, cause here's the thing, I, I briefed all the way up to the White House. If there is a legacy program, who's doing the work? Because I know all, I don't necessarily know personally, all of the physicists and engineers that should be working on, but I know who they are. And I know that they're not, because I see what they are doing.

• 51:29AJ Gentile?

  You know that they're not?

• 51:30Speaker 04

  Yes. And I see what they are doing. And that's when, um, Dave Grush kinda came along. So, let me, let me, uh, you know, I'm probably getting ahead of you, but.

• 51:41AJ Gentile?

  You are, but it's, it's fun.

• 51:43Speaker 04

  Uh, so, uh, so Jay and that other person who still didn't want his name out because he just didn't want the publicity. He's retired since, but he just didn't want to get involved, right? Uh, but he, the guy that was in the space group and then Jay and myself, and there was one other, um, uh, CIA scientist that was, uh, kind of in the top group that would hang out, you know, together afterwards. We, we called it, uh, um, Jay called it whiskey and cigars, cause he'd do a, a virtual meeting and we'd all meet like every Friday evening and, and talk about what we'd done. Uh, but, so the, the space guy, uh, he was, he had Dave Grush on contract. Dave Grush was not a civil servant.

• 52:28Speaker 04

  He was a contractor, right? And he said, well, we need somebody, uh, um, that can go and we'll get them to do interviews, cause we don't have time to do all that. Cause we had just set up, Jay and I just got approval from the NASA administrator, that we were gonna get every living astronaut in a skiff and have them, um, debrief with us and, and they were to be told from the administrator to tell us anything they know. Right? And then COVID hit and we didn't get to do that, but there's a whole nother aspect to that.

• 52:59AJ Gentile?

  Well, who would have been alive then? Just Buzz, right?

• 53:01Speaker 04

  Uh, well, you have, uh, uh, the Apollo, of the Apollo guys, you got, you had Buzz and, uh, then, then, then you would get into the space shuttle guys.

• 53:10AJ Gentile?

  Oh, okay. Yeah.

• 53:11Speaker 04

  And, and, uh, so you still had, uh, uh, uh, there, there were still several of the.

• 53:19AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 53:19Speaker 04

  Space shuttle, uh, Musgrave's still alive, you know, and I don't know if John Young, Robert Cribbin are probably still alive. I, I don't know. I'd have to go look that up.

• 53:28AJ Gentile?

  What about Mark Kelly? Would he have been on your list?

• 53:30Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. We, so every living astronaut, every astronaut that was alive, we had, we were go, we had a plan, we had a schedule. And we were gonna get them to fly, then we had budget to fly them to the skiff in DC and we were gonna meet with them for a week, have them come in and, and debrief with us. So at the same time, we had the space guy said, well, I got a guy on contract already doing some analysis for me. He's pretty good. Uh, I'm gonna get him to start interviewing anybody that, that thinks they know anything about the legacy programs in a skiff. And, uh, and, and so that's what Dave Grush started doing, just started interviewing people.

• 54:04AJ Gentile?

  So he wasn't Air Force intelligence?

• 54:06Speaker 04

  No. Now, now, so he was active duty Air Force for some time in his career.

• 54:11AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 54:11Speaker 04

  And, and I think he was in Air Force intelligence in that timeframe, right? Uh, but I, I mean, he wasn't high, I mean, he wasn't like a general or something. He was, he was, he was a, just a, you know, a, a normal career guy, right? Well, when he, when he got out of the Air Force, he started doing contractor, he's a physics major. I mean, he, he knows, he's, I think he has a, he, he has, I know he has a bachelor's, he may have a master's in physics. He's, he's a sharp guy. Um, uh, so anyway, uh, and Dave was doing like signals analysis or image analysis or something for the space team. And so we put him to work doing that. And he started getting people telling him just all kinds of stuff.

• 54:53Speaker 04

  And so we, we, we gave him to tell it, debrief us on it, whatever. And then, uh, he got a job offer to go to, um, NGA as a civil servant. Uh, National Geospatial Agency. And, uh, um, so, but he was still, uh, also partially under control from the other leader of the UAP task force. And while I was at NGA as a civil servant, uh, he was asking some of these people the questions. And somebody didn't like it. And they had the inspector general start investigating him. And that's, that kinda brings everybody up to the date of the stories that Dave has told.

• 55:33Speaker 04

  Uh, but what I, I just wanted to, to, and I, I wanna be clear about something. I think people don't understand the way he tells it is that, uh,

• 55:43Speaker 04

  to my knowledge, he's never seen anything with his own eyes.

• 55:47AJ Gentile?

  That's, that's what I understand.

• 55:48Speaker 04

  And the way he has, and, and under, you know, discussions with me in, in a skiff, I've known Dave for a long time. Uh, it's, yeah, this guy told me this, right? And he's the guy that worked on it, he says, and then, so then our goal was to get those people to say these things under oath. But we, getting them to say it under oath is the hard thing. And so that's, I think that's why Dave would at least went and said it under oath that, hey, these guys told me these things. And, uh, I, I want people to understand that's, that's the problem we have. We can't get anyone who's got their hands on it to, uh, come forward and say, uh, yeah, I've got it. Here it is. You know, come help us.

• 56:28AJ Gentile?

  Cause the whistleblower protection doesn't seem to have any teeth.

• 56:32Speaker 04

  Uh, I don't think whistleblower protection in general never has any teeth, right? I mean, uh, look at the, uh, I forget the guy's name. He was a CIA agent that blew the whistle on, uh, torture going on at Guantanamo. He spent like five years in prison.

• 56:48AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 56:48Speaker 04

  I don't think he got the whistleblower protection he was wanting.

• 56:51AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 56:52Speaker 04

  So, there's a lot of that, you know, and so I think they're scared to death.

• 56:58AJ Gentile?

  But you believe that there's a legacy program?

• 57:02Speaker 04

  Excuse me. Yeah. You know, is there a legacy program?

• 57:06AJ Gentile?

  Cause I've had a few guys in here who would know and they all say no. But I don't know.

• 57:11Speaker 04

  Well, I, I used to think no. Uh, until I started, um, really being a part of the community, you know, I, I didn't believe that Rob, I believe that, uh, up until probably I went to Skinwalker Ranch, that, uh, Roswell was most likely a classified program that went awry. And then when I started digging into it and looking in it from internal classifications and re, reading all the, uh, documentation and all, and now, uh, the fact that this fourth tranche of, uh, emails and things have been released from the government and they show clearly that Twining actually said that they, uh, that they were a phenomena.

• 57:52AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 57:53Speaker 04

  Um, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm convinced that something was going on.

• 57:58AJ Gentile?

  He said it for one day.

• 58:00Speaker 04

  Yeah. For one day.

• 58:02AJ Gentile?

  For one day, he said it.

• 58:03Speaker 04

  Well, so when I was doing the Tesla files, that's a, another interesting thing. Um, uh, we found a document through a Freedom of Information Act request, that Franklin Roosevelt had written a letter directly to Nikola Tesla in 1942 before he died, asking Nikola Tesla how his secret war effort was going.

• 58:26AJ Gentile?

  You found that document?

• 58:27Speaker 04

  Yes. And we released it on the Tesla files. Uh, and we had, had a copy of that document from the FOIA request. How was his secret war effort going? And everybody thought he was just on top of the hotel, uh, New Yorker playing with pigeons.

• 58:41AJ Gentile?

  Pigeons, no.

• 58:42Speaker 04

  No.

• 58:43AJ Gentile?

  So, I mean, there's that conspiracy theory that I believe is when he died, 60 boxes get taken out of room 3327 and only 40 come back.

• 58:51Speaker 04

  Uh, it was more than that.

• 58:52AJ Gentile?

  More than that. And that's John Trump.

• 58:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. It was, it was, it was Donald Trump's uncle.

• 58:58AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 58:58Speaker 04

  Right? And, uh, it's really interesting. He was in charge, he was, so it was Trump, which is also, he's one of the guys that shows up in the MJ12 conspiracy theories too.

• 59:07AJ Gentile?

  He does.

• 59:08Speaker 04

  Right? But so, here's the thing. Um, we went to the Hotel New Yorker.

• 59:14AJ Gentile?

  You went, you went there?

• 59:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:15AJ Gentile?

  I gotta watch the show.

• 59:16Speaker 04

  Uh, to investigate what was going on there. And I've, I had this, the building engineer, uh, come talk to me about the design of the building and show me all the infrastructure that was built back in the, uh, so Tesla quit being public in 1927. You know when they started designing the Hotel New Yorker?

• 59:34AJ Gentile?

  When?

• 59:35Speaker 04

  1927. Go figure.

• 59:37AJ Gentile?

  Go figure.

• 59:37Speaker 04

  Right? And so we, we go and we look and they had three ginormous, um, um, generators, the biggest that existed, put in the basement of that building to power the building.

• 59:54AJ Gentile?

  I read the same thing.

• 59:55Speaker 04

  But I saw them with my own eyes.

• 59:57AJ Gentile?

  You did?

• 59:57Speaker 04

  Yes. The generators, one of the generators would have been enough to power all of New York at the time.

• 1:00:03AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:00:04Speaker 04

  And they had three of them. And um, then I was uh, um, I was running the stairwell during a break, uh, just as my workout. It was a forty story building. I'm like, man, it's gonna be a hell of a workout, right? And I get to the fortieth floor and it keeps going. So I go up a floor and I get to a welded shut door. Welded shut now. And I go back down, uh, the next morning and I talk to engineers. What's up on the forty first floor? No, not on the forty first floor. Well, there's a door up there that's welded shut. He said, show me. So we took elevator and walked over there and I've been the engineer for this building for a decade. I've never realized this door was here. And uh, so well, how do we get to the other side of it? We went and found blueprints that were older.

• 1:00:49Speaker 04

  And they showed there was something there and there was a corridor. And to get in there, we found there was a switchboard up there on the forty first floor. That, you know, like old school where they, those ladies would be there putting, plugging in the movies. You always see them plugging in wires, you know, to make phone calls. There was a switchboard and it was about this far from a, from the main wall that you could barely squeeze behind and get through. And when you get on the other side, there was a laboratory.

• 1:01:16AJ Gentile?

  No shit.

• 1:01:17Speaker 04

  On the four, forty first floor. And there was a filing cabinet in there that had blueprints from the early nineteen hundreds in it. And we found, uh, and I, I got to looking around the room and there was a, um, a, a metal pipe about that big around. And we went to every floor and traced and it went all the way down into the sub-basement into the earth. And, uh, in the Warden Cliff Tower that Tesla built.

• 1:01:43AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:44Speaker 04

  They drove steel pipes into the ground deep and he called them earth grippers.

• 1:01:48AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:01:48Speaker 04

  Right? And, and when I started looking, um, there was a certain height that Tesla had calculated in some of his notes, but the building was about fifty feet short of that height. And we go up on the very top of the building. There's like an overlook and there's a pole, kinda like a flagpole on top. And I said, what's there? Oh, he said, there, there used to be a ball up there.

• 1:02:10AJ Gentile?

  Ah, just like Warden Cliff.

• 1:02:11Speaker 04

  Just like on Warden Cliff. And so, and this was, and he was there in, in nineteen forty-two when he died. And there was that memo that said, how is your secret war effort going from Roosevelt himself? So what was he doing at the Hotel New Yorker? I think it was a, uh, a, a, a system to either collect energy, uh, or to detect energy. And it may have been a means of over the horizon communications to our, our Navy.

• 1:02:43AJ Gentile?

  We know he was working on all that stuff.

• 1:02:45Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, and, and could it have been something else? You know, he talked about the, he talked about the, we did find that there was a, a number of, that we found a memo from, I forget who, who it was. Uh, it was one of the generals at the time of having all of the boxes from the Office of Foreign Properties.

• 1:03:07AJ Gentile?

  Alien properties.

• 1:03:08Speaker 04

  Alien properties. That's it. Alien properties. It's been a while. Yeah. It was like twenty sixteen, I think, when I did this. So the, uh, the Office of Alien Properties that pertain to death, uh, Tesla's death ray to be sent to Wright-Patt Field.

• 1:03:20AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 1:03:21Speaker 04

  Uh, Wright Field at the time, but, but, but we found that memo. It says that.

• 1:03:24AJ Gentile?

  Where Blue Book was, I think, spun up at that time in Wright-Patt, wasn't it?

• 1:03:28Speaker 04

  Well, that would have been a little before Blue Book, cause that was in the forties. Uh, and Blue Book would have been in the late fifties.

• 1:03:34AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:03:35Speaker 04

  Uh, so, uh, I mean, they would have been, had the, had the legacy of it, certainly.

• 1:03:39AJ Gentile?

  Something was there.

• 1:03:40Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, and so all of this stuff, we see now from investigating that we don't know what our history is. We don't know what's happened. And, and we don't have anyone who's documented it and, and it's been compartmentalized in a way that nobody will ever know. So.

• 1:03:58AJ Gentile?

  Alien property is supposed to have a chain of custody with all that stuff.

• 1:04:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:00AJ Gentile?

  And alien just means foreigner.

• 1:04:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. The, the, the, the reason why was cause his next of kin was a Serbian.

• 1:04:07AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm. And his nephew.

• 1:04:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, and so they.

• 1:04:10AJ Gentile?

  His nephew said, where's the rest of the stuff?

• 1:04:11Speaker 04

  Yeah. So we went to Serbia.

• 1:04:14AJ Gentile?

  You did?

• 1:04:14Speaker 04

  Yes. To the, to the, uh, Tesla, uh, Institute, whatever it's called.

• 1:04:19AJ Gentile?

  It's still there?

• 1:04:20Speaker 04

  And, uh, we had permission from the State Department where I had worked it for us to get to see Tesla's notes that they have in the vault there. And, cause I was wanting to see, I was gonna try and rebuild one of his experiments. And of the death ray, honestly, and, and transmission of, of power. And they bring out this book. They got the white gloves on and, uh, and they get, open up the vault and they're wearing the bunny suit. And then they come out and they set it down and said, so this is the first page. And they turned over one page. And they said, so you can see this is, these are Tesla's documents. And I could see through the paper that the drawing on the next page was the drawing I really needed to see.

• 1:04:59Speaker 04

  And I said, well, can you turn the page? And the, the, the curator, basically like the Hawass of Serbia, where, you know.

• 1:05:06AJ Gentile?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:05:07Speaker 04

  He comes in, no.

• 1:05:08AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 1:05:09Speaker 04

  And I said, why are we, why not? And he said, uh, he says, you don't have a research visa. You, you're here on a, uh, uh, I don't know, a tour, a work visa or something. I forget what our visas were. And, and, and our, and our producer came around, what? Now, we, we have permission. We're supposed, we, the State Department worked all this out. What are you talking about? He says, you don't have research visa. You can't. And they, and they, and they literally ran us out of the museum at that point when we want, when he saw that I was wanting to look at that next, next document.

• 1:05:37AJ Gentile?

  Did you call the embassy and said, I need a research visa?

• 1:05:39Speaker 04

  We, we did everything like that and they would never, the Serbian museum there would never let us come back in to see the Tesla files.

• 1:05:47AJ Gentile?

  No, they wouldn't.

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  How about that?

• 1:05:49AJ Gentile?

  I believe it.

• 1:05:49Speaker 04

  And, and so that's the kinda stuff. Who told him that? Who did? Why did they not want me to see, you know, a hundred year old document almost, right? Seventies or whatever. It's, it's old. Uh, so why would they not want me to see that? That's, that's so bizarre to me. Uh, and, and, and so that's that kinda crap that I've seen over and over throughout my career now, and especially since I was on the UAP Task Force. That leads me to think there is a heritage program or a legacy program. Uh, but I don't think, I think it's so disjointed and disconnected. We don't know who's in charge of it. We don't know where the information is, the documents are, and it may not even be in the government.

• 1:06:31AJ Gentile?

  I don't think it is.

• 1:06:32Speaker 04

  I don't think it, I think it's likely, uh, yeah, you know, Spielberg may have got it partly right with how he handled it in his new movie, right? You know, there was a, some like Lockheed Martin type or Northrop Grumman or whatever. I'm not gonna say I've heard it was one of those.

• 1:06:47AJ Gentile?

  I mean, we heard Hal say in Age of Disclosure that they would just send that stuff to the contractors because FOIA can't penetrate.

• 1:06:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, so now here is the, um, the illegal part that, that we've, having been a civil servant for twenty-eight years and having to do, uh, federal acquisition regulation, uh, contracts and stuff. I'm very aware of what's legal and illegal here. I'm not a lawyer. I mean, I, but I'm saying, I know what I would have gotten in trouble for.

• 1:07:16AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:07:17Speaker 04

  Um, so what happens, let's just do a hypothetical that some government team recovers, uh, an alien artifact. They release a call for proposals, um, to the people who have the right clearances, cause they're classified proposals, right? Calls and, uh, say, okay, propose for this. And, and they award somebody, some contractor, contractor X, uh, a contract to work on this thing. Soon as they deliver the prod, the, the, the device or, or whatever artifact as government furnished equipment, GFE, in the contract, they'll say that. This is GFE.

• 1:07:59Speaker 04

  Then it's in the hands, they're, they're the curators of it, but, uh, it's still the government's property. At that point, the government cancels the contract. And says, we're gonna abandon in place, and this is an official legal term used in the federal acquisition regulations. The government can abandon in place anything that they've left at a contractor facility. And the contractor can then do anything they want to with it. They can throw it in the dumpster if they want. They can give it to their grandma. It doesn't matter. It's theirs. The government says, ah, I don't wanna do this anymore.

• 1:08:29AJ Gentile?

  This is how it works.

• 1:08:30Speaker 04

  And it's legal to abandon in place. But then suddenly, uh, that same contractor X bids on, oh, let's say, uh, F twenty-two contract or a F thirty-five contract or a future combat systems contract. And they get a seventy billion dollar contract for ten years. Then this guy who was the government employee retires. And guess what? He suddenly got a job with seven figures, uh, working for one of these contractors.

• 1:09:01AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:09:02Speaker 04

  Now that's what the whistleblowers told us. And, and that scenario we've seen happen without being alien stuff. We've just seen it happen.

• 1:09:11AJ Gentile?

  We all see it.

• 1:09:11Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, uh, uh, so I'm convinced that that has happened since the forties. I'm convinced of it. And I think, uh, Howard Hughes even, even said basically that that was what was happening.

• 1:09:24AJ Gentile?

  He did. He talked about anti-gravity ships and stuff.

• 1:09:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, man, I don't know. Is there a legacy program? I can't prove it. But, um, I've seen so many doors slammed in my face or, uh, or had so many people tell me not to look at that or talk about that or, or, you know, you, you, your career will be ended if you, people think you're a nut, those kinda things. Why? Why? What, what's, what's driving them? And what's driving them to push so hard? I mean, since I've been on, um, at Skinwalker, the, the, some of the antibody press has really kinda, like this guy talking about my alleged education, for example.

• 1:10:06AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:06Speaker 04

  You know, some people read that and probably believe that I made it up, right? And he, and all he would have had to done was do his homework.

• 1:10:14AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, that's Operation Mockingbird still, still in action.

• 1:10:16Speaker 04

  That's exactly it. You got it. And, and so who is behind that? That is the big thing that bothers me the most. Cause I spent my life since I was seventeen years old as a civil servant, serving the country that I believe in. And then I get to this point and I see that there's something else going on that, you know, we're not in control of what we think we're in control of.

• 1:10:40AJ Gentile?

  Well, let's take a quick break. We'll talk more about that later. But when we come back, I wanna talk a little bit of quantum mechanics, if you don't mind.

• 1:10:46Speaker 04

  I can always talk about quantum mechanics.

• 1:10:48AJ Gentile?

  Be right back. Okay. So you worked at US Army Space and Missile Defense Command.

• 1:10:55AJ Gentile?

  Principal Scientist of Quantum Entanglement and Space Technologies Lab. What does the Army want to do? What's the Army mess around with quantum mechanics for?

• 1:11:04Speaker 04

  Well, um, many reasons. One is are there sensors that would use new, new methods of quantum physics that would give you more information on battle assessment, battlefield awareness and so on. Uh, the other would be communications. If you can do quantum entanglement encrypted communications. And what I was specifically working on, uh, as my main project at the time was to create a satellite, uh, experiment that would use quantum encrypted communications so that no one could eavesdrop or spoof or jam the comms to the battle groups on the ground.

• 1:11:45AJ Gentile?

  Didn't China just do this?

• 1:11:47Speaker 04

  Well, you're thinking, you're thinking of the, uh, it's spelled Misha. So I think they pronounce it something like Mosa or something like that. I don't understand Chinese spelling and pronunciations, but you're talking about that, that, that experiment where yes, they did a, what's called a QKD, quantum key distribution experiment where they flew a satellite in 2016, 2017 timeframe, uh, and they encrypted a video transmission with their, uh, quantum key and, uh, and, and did it from one point on one part of, uh, the globe to another part, which was, uh, really impressive and exciting. There are a lot of people who tried to debunk it and say that they didn't really achieve it, but I was on one of the teams to, uh, look at what they did and, and as far as I could tell, it was functional and it's really interesting.

• 1:12:32Speaker 04

  Uh, not tooting my own horn, but, but myself and, and one of my first mentors, uh, Dr. Francisco J. Duarte, Frank Duarte, he and I wrote a paper in 2015 that Laser Focus World, uh, nominated as one of the top 10 papers of the year. Uh, and we showed, we showed that quantum communications would be, uh, the key for encrypted satellite communications. And then within a year, the Chinese did it. And, uh, so at least we thought of it.

• 1:13:01AJ Gentile?

  But they did it?

• 1:13:03Speaker 04

  But they went and did it. So, uh, but my, my, uh, lab was, um, a hybrid lab between University of Alabama Huntsville and the Army Space and Missile Defense Command to get smart, young folks in there, working on it, hands on building the experiment, building the space hardware. And, uh, we'd, we'd already flown one project on the, uh, International Space Station for 28 months. And our second mission was to fly the quantum, uh, communications package. And, um, we got the first, uh, prototype built and then politics changed within the Army and some group said, well, we're the only group in the Army that's supposed to be doing that.

• 1:13:47Speaker 04

  So they pulled our funding and put it there and, uh, we, we sort of limped along. Um, but I also, that was about the time that I got pulled into the UAP task force. And so my focus was sort of reoriented.

• 1:14:01AJ Gentile?

  Well, I understand how the quantum encryption would work, but why would entangle it be necessary?

• 1:14:07Speaker 04

  So that way you can, uh, over large distances, create your key on both ends.

• 1:14:16AJ Gentile?

  Oh, that's right.

• 1:14:19Speaker 04

  So you have your entangled photons, right? Flipping up or down. And if you measure over here, whatever it is, you know what the other one is supposed to be. And so what happens is you, this, this person gets a key, entangles it, sends it over to the other person. And then they send through a regular comms channel, I use this basis, this, this measurement tool to measure it. And so then they take that measurement tool and do some, you know, adjustment to it, measure, and whatever they get then, it tells them what their key was. And so if they don't have both of those, the actual entangled piece and the classical comm piece, then you can't get the key. You can't open the door. And so it's a, it's perfect, uh, encryption.

• 1:15:02AJ Gentile?

  And it's not breakable?

• 1:15:03Speaker 04

  Well, there are some quantum hacks that have been discovered since, but it's not, I don't think it's really been done in application.

• 1:15:11AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:15:12Speaker 04

  It's theoretically possible.

• 1:15:13AJ Gentile?

  In theory, you should be able to break it, I guess instantly, right?

• 1:15:16Speaker 04

  Uh, well, well, but if you do break it, the other guy knows that you broke it. So if, if anybody eavesdrops on you, you know that you've been eavesdropped on. And so that's useful as well, right?

• 1:15:26AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:27Speaker 04

  And so that's what we were working on and, um, it was, it was an exciting project. Uh, it was hard. Uh, I mean, it's one of those things that, you know, nobody had done yet. So I mean, it's other than the Chinese, uh, but nobody had done it in this country yet. And then the problem was, the problem with this country is, uh, for the research funds, you got so many people fighting and stabbing each other in the back over getting something done that we're our own worst enemy in that regard. Instead of, uh, saying, oh, these guys have done great work. We should go look at what they've done and maybe we can get funding to do something similar or whatever. Instead of, we better kill them and get their funding. That's how it works in this country. I mean, it really does. And, uh, our, our scientific community, uh, publication community, it's all, uh, big Spanish Inquisition.

• 1:16:12Speaker 04

  It's just a mess.

• 1:16:13AJ Gentile?

  Were you studying quantum field theory and then decided to just write the textbook yourself?

• 1:16:19Speaker 04

  Uh, that's, that is exactly what I did.

• 1:16:21AJ Gentile?

  What, what, what was wrong with, with the syllabus that you had to write your own textbook as a student?

• 1:16:28Speaker 04

  Well, so, uh, what happened was, uh, I noticed that quantum field theory was on the catalog for the University of Alabama Huntsville Physics Department, but it was never offered. And I went to the dean and said, well, why, why is it not offered? You know, I've been studying, I'd want to take a official course in it. And he said, well, um, we don't have anybody that wants to teach it. And he said, I could, but I don't have time. And I said, well, uh, tell you what, uh, I'll, let me see if I can create a syllabus for you and, and write the course. And so I started putting the coursework together. I got several other textbooks, looking at them like, uh, read like stereo instructions, you know, instead of trying to explain it in a way that a student can understand it.

• 1:17:11Speaker 04

  And so to teach myself, you know, quantum field theory, uh, I had, I mean, I had to learn it well enough that I could teach it to somebody else, right? Explain it to the third grader, so to speak.

• 1:17:21AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:17:22Speaker 04

  Uh, which is, that's a hard one to do.

• 1:17:24AJ Gentile?

  Yes, it is. Who did you study to put that together?

• 1:17:27Speaker 04

  Uh, so there are, there's several books. Uh, the, the two main sets of books that I used were, uh, a book by Klauber and then one by Lancaster and Blundell. There was like, something like, uh, quantum physics for gifted amateur and one, uh, student friendly, uh, quantum field theory or something like that. And then, then I, there was the, the standard textbooks that people have used and, and I looked at what, uh, I found MIT coursework online and, and just everywhere, everywhere I could find information, I'd read, I'd say, I'd read everything about this particular piece of it and be like, I don't understand what they were telling me there. This one I kind of understand. I don't, then I figured out after, you know, putting it all together, a, a way to understand it. And so I said, well, I kind of done all this work.

• 1:18:12Speaker 04

  It might as well be a book. And so I contacted the publisher who, who published my, uh, rocket science book. And, uh, they said, we would love to have a quantum field theory book, uh, first graduate course in that? Yeah, we'd love to do that. And so I spent the next year putting that book together.

• 1:18:27AJ Gentile?

  Did anyone take your course?

• 1:18:29Speaker 04

  Uh, well, I haven't taught it.

• 1:18:30AJ Gentile?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:18:31Speaker 04

  The book just came out, you know, six months ago.

• 1:18:34AJ Gentile?

  Oh, it did?

• 1:18:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:36AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:18:37Speaker 04

  Yeah. So I just finished it, not, you know, not long ago. And I've already found a couple of errors in it. So I'm going to have to do a, uh, an updated edition or something to fix it. But that's usually what happens, you know, with textbooks, you teach a class in it and the students find where you made a mistake.

• 1:18:47AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:18:48Speaker 04

  And so I'm hoping that somebody adopts it and they'll get notes from professors saying, well, there's an error here. There's, you know, that's happened with my rocket science book too, so.

• 1:18:57AJ Gentile?

  Yeah. I get emails from fans and scientists saying all the things I got wrong.

• 1:19:00Speaker 04

  I heard, I've heard about that.

• 1:19:02AJ Gentile?

  Were you, um, working on decoherence when you were in the lab?

• 1:19:08Speaker 04

  So, um, a little bit. Uh, one of the things that we were really interested in, that I, me specifically, was how, how do we know or how does it know to decohere? What, what is the thing that triggers what is called the collapse of the wave function in quantum physics? And, uh, there are a lot of people that debate it. There, there are people still think that, or want to argue with you that, uh, no, it's just statistics and, and there never was this live and dead cat in the box. Uh, but we've done experiments that suggest that it is, uh, a superposition of two states at once. The cat's alive and dead in the box at the same time, but for how long? So you know, Penrose, uh, Roger Penrose.

• 1:19:52AJ Gentile?

  This is what I was getting at.

• 1:19:53Speaker 04

  Uh, has a, a theory called quantum gravity and it's not really tying gravity to quantum physics. It's just what he called it. Uh, that based on how much mass an object has is how long it can stay in this superposition of unknown states, right? Like the cat's alive and dead. But since the cat is so heavy, it's like, you know, billions of a second or something, a nanosecond or, or even less, that it could be in flux. But an electron, for example, whose mass is tiny, like 10 to the minus 31 kilograms or something, uh, that's so small, you can't even imagine, so many zeros, you know, uh, that it can stay in that, in that flux for almost forever unless something interacts with it.

• 1:20:37Speaker 04

  And, uh, so where is the middle ground where there are big things, big enough things that you can watch and see it happen? And I think, uh, there were some experiments done with, uh, uh, micron sized, you know, millionth of a meter sized nano tubes, like carbon filaments.

• 1:20:53AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:20:53Speaker 04

  Like the size of a human hair, something like that, under certain field conditions. And they've been able to see it perform at both states at once, meaning it's that the cat is alive and dead in the box. It's just a little bitty box.

• 1:21:04AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:21:05Speaker 04

  And a very cooperative cat. I've always said, I don't know how Schrödinger was going to get that cat in the box in the first place. Now a cat will jump into a box if you leave it there open.

• 1:21:13AJ Gentile?

  Right. But you can't put it in there.

• 1:21:15Speaker 04

  But you can't put it in there. Cats do what they want to do.

• 1:21:19Speaker 04

  So.

• 1:21:20AJ Gentile?

  So, Tegmark says that, uh, decoherence is almost instant in warm, wet environment.

• 1:21:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:21:26AJ Gentile?

  That's not really true, is it?

• 1:21:27Speaker 04

  Though, well, that's the warm, squishy brain, uh, idea. So what you're getting at is quantum consciousness, right? And, and Penrose and Hammerhalls.

• 1:21:34AJ Gentile?

  Even before we get there, I'm thinking about birds' eyes and quantum tunneling through olfactory senses, even before we get to consciousness.

• 1:21:41Speaker 04

  Well, uh, one of the things that, that, uh, led me down this path was, uh, my first child was born in, uh, 2004. And when my wife was pregnant, I remember watching all these videos about, well, at this stage, the baby grows, this happens and this happens. And I go, how the hell do they know? What, why does it do that? And, and it's, nobody knows why these things are happening. They just, it's just been, they've watched them so lo- so long, they say, this is what usually happens. It's just observation, it's not knowledge.

• 1:22:15AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:22:15Speaker 04

  And, and what's triggering these things to happen? And how does it know? And, and the things happen in ways that seem faster than they should be able to happen.

• 1:22:22AJ Gentile?

  They still don't really know.

• 1:22:23Speaker 04

  No, they don't have any idea. No. And, and so now I think, well, if you get a splinter in your finger, the immune response happens immediately. And it's much faster than the ion channel to travel from your arm up to your brain and back down your brain and back to say, send stuff there, right? So, could it be through a quantum connection? Through an interaction? And that's what led me to start studying Penrose and Hammerov's orchestrated objective reduction and the, and the warm, squishy brain thing, right? And, you know, there, for, you know, people who haven't really paid attention to that, the idea is that there are these proteins in your brain. And there's more of these proteins in your brain than there are grains of sand on the

• 1:23:07Speaker 04

  beach or stars in the universe.

• 1:23:09AJ Gentile?

  Tryptophan?

• 1:23:10Speaker 04

  Uh, no, they're called tubulins.

• 1:23:11AJ Gentile?

  Oh, the microtubes?

• 1:23:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:12AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:23:13Speaker 04

  And, and the protein, uh, the tubulin protein.

• 1:23:15AJ Gentile?

  Oh, it's the, tryptophan's the amino acid in those.

• 1:23:17Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:23:18AJ Gentile?

  Okay. Go ahead.

• 1:23:18Speaker 04

  Uh, so Penrose and Hammeroff, uh, hypothe- hypothesized that, uh, these tubulins can trap an electron like the cat in the box, right? And, and so that protein becomes what's called a qubit, a quantum processor.

• 1:23:33AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:23:34Speaker 04

  And that's what we're building right now at Google, at IBM, you know, that, these quantum qubit processors. And, and where the programs that we've built quantum computers physically, there are tens to hundreds of qubit processors. There are like 10 to the 20 or so of them in your brain. And so, does it matter if they decohere quickly? This is where Tegmark didn't pay attention to engineering.

• 1:24:04AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:24:05Speaker 04

  So even if they do decohere, uh, so quickly, there's 10 to the 20-something of them.

• 1:24:10AJ Gentile?

  That's, that's a good point.

• 1:24:11Speaker 04

  And they could be decohering, but they could be reinforced, uh, by the next one not being decohered yet, and so on.

• 1:24:17AJ Gentile?

  Tryptophan does reinforce these.

• 1:24:19Speaker 04

  Uh, well, and there's other, uh, so here's the, the, the thought about that. Is there architecture in your brain to do error reduction? That's why you would, you know what? When you do error reduction in compute, in computing, uh, processing, you add extra processors.

• 1:24:35AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:24:36Speaker 04

  Guess what? There are 10 to the 20-something of these processors in your brain. And, and so I believe that that's, uh, that, that your brain is a quantum computer, whether it was organically grown, designed by, uh, you know, the Anunnaki or whatever you want, I don't care, uh, but that's what's happening. And, and it's led, it led me to write a book, uh, in the early 2000s called The Science Behind the Secret. And I was watching, my wife and I were watching these, it's when The Secret came out, it was all popular, no one, and there was people on Oprah talking about it.

• 1:25:09AJ Gentile?

  We all read it.

• 1:25:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, we all read it. And, and, and they started talking about, well, you know, it's like electromagnet, uh, electromagnetism. And I'm like, well, that, that's not right, like electromagnetism, because in, in, in magnets and electricity, like things repel each other. And you're saying like things stay. And so the only thing that does that, that I know of is quantum physics. Cause in quantum, uh, quantum wave functions will, uh, have constructive interference if the wave functions are similar, and they'll be destructive if they're dissimilar. So like things would stay and unlike things would go away. And that started leading me to think, well, what they're saying in The Secret isn't, they're not physicists, they're like self-help people, philosophers, whatever. They don't understand what they're saying, but they're saying it right.

• 1:25:51AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:25:52Speaker 04

  And so I started, uh, looking at the, uh, quantum physics of the human brain and how the universe works. And it led me down this path of looking into ancient texts, uh, even more so than just for, uh, things like from ancient astronaut hypothesis, right? More than, deeper than Van Danekin, you know, more of the William Henry sort of direction.

• 1:26:12AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:26:12Speaker 04

  And, uh, and, and it led me into really wanting to understand quantum physics at a level, uh, of, of is there an observer effect that are we influencing every experiment, everything that happens? And, and here's the thing that gets me is, how do I have dreams of people I don't know?

• 1:26:34Speaker 04

  In detail?

• 1:26:36AJ Gentile?

  We all do.

• 1:26:37Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's, it's so.

• 1:26:38AJ Gentile?

  And, but you know them in the dream.

• 1:26:40Speaker 04

  Yes. And I know these environments in the dream that I've never been to. Is it, is, am I that good at making up stuff? Or is my brain in, uh, idle mode and the noise floor is brought down because all my other systems are shut down? And I'm, uh, connecting like a, uh, a quantum, uh, transceiver to other quantum transmissions that are happening, uh, and, and I'm decoding it. And I'm, I'm like playing that game. I'm part of that reality for a minute. And I, that leads me down the path that because we don't understand dreams, because we don't understand things like DMT, uh, because we don't understand that, uh, when

• 1:27:24Speaker 04

  people are hallucinating, that their brain function actually goes into a coma-like state instead of hyperactive, um, that leads me to think that we're doing something more on the lines of detecting quantum information, because you gotta, it's very sensitive to noise, right? And so if you brought the noise down, then you're seeing things that aren't usually there or detecting things that aren't usually there, or having experiences you don't usually experience, it suggests to me, that sounds like quantum physics.

• 1:27:53AJ Gentile?

  Well, you brought up DMT. So we've got microtubules that are loaded with tryptophan, which turns into tryptamine, add two methyl groups, and now you've got DMT. And it's, your brain is full of these amino acids. It's just, can't be an accident.

• 1:28:06Speaker 04

  No, it can't be an accident. It can't, that, that, that sounds like, um, it's the best video game system ever created, right?

• 1:28:14AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:28:14Speaker 04

  Uh, I mean, it's better than Neuralink.

• 1:28:17AJ Gentile?

  You ever do DMT?

• 1:28:18Speaker 04

  No, I, I don't, I've, I've, I've had a security clearance since, since I was 17.

• 1:28:22AJ Gentile?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:28:23Speaker 04

  And been susceptible to drug tests, uh, and, and lie detector, polygraphs, uh, for a very long time. And, uh, so the only advice that I have is, is occasional alcohol.

• 1:28:35AJ Gentile?

  Fair enough. I broke my clearance, but it's, it's a weird world when you go into the DMT world, because it feels so real.

• 1:28:41Speaker 04

  I've had a lot of, uh, so, uh, as you can imagine, uh, doing this kind of thing, there, there are cameramen and sound guys and people who've been in the entertainment industry, and they don't have such rules and regulations. And they tell me many stories. And, and it's what's really interesting to me is how the, uh, Hiwaska and, uh, and the DMT stories, they all say the same thing.

• 1:29:05AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:05Speaker 04

  They see the same creatures. They have the same experience. Why? Right?

• 1:29:10AJ Gentile?

  I don't know. I've seen the mantis being.

• 1:29:11Speaker 04

  Really?

• 1:29:12AJ Gentile?

  I don't know why.

• 1:29:13Speaker 04

  And, and I don't think it's because you were front-loaded.

• 1:29:15AJ Gentile?

  Nope. It didn't feel like it.

• 1:29:17Speaker 04

  Uh, it, it seems to me more like, uh, like that looking from a peripheral vision to see things that you can't normally see.

• 1:29:25AJ Gentile?

  That's a good segue into Skinwalker, because we have to talk about it. When you got to the ranch, you were there to debunk it, weren't you?

• 1:29:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, man, when I got there, I knew it was gonna be like, uh, Scooby-Doo, man.

• 1:29:35AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:35Speaker 04

  I was, I was gonna get there and it's old man Withers, you know? And, and, and he'd got away with it, weren't for these meddling kids, but, uh.

• 1:29:43AJ Gentile?

  You find Withers yet?

• 1:29:44Speaker 04

  No, no, I, I've been there for eight years and have yet to find old man Withers. In fact, I'm more, more confused today than I, than I was before I went, you know, after eight years.

• 1:29:54AJ Gentile?

  What was that first experiment, that first reading? That made you go, wait a minute?

• 1:29:58Speaker 04

  So, I, I mean, I'd literally been there 30 minutes to an hour, um.

• 1:30:02AJ Gentile?

  That's it?

• 1:30:02Speaker 04

  Yep. My, uh, first time to visit, Brandon Fugel, the owner, flew me in on his helicopter. We landed, uh, at the helipad, we got out and had lunch, and then walked up to the top of the mesa where they'd just put out a new, uh, sensor. They were gonna show me the sensor. And I, and we, and I carried a, a spectrum analyzer with me as we went. And, uh, the other scientist there had one with him, Eric Bard. Um, and we were there up on top of the mesa, we'd just got there, and then suddenly my spectrum analyzer pegged out in the microwaves. And, and I mean pegged out, like, not, not popping popcorn on the inside, but if you were popping popcorn and held your microwave detector right by the door, that's how much microwaves I was detecting coming from everywhere.

• 1:30:47AJ Gentile?

  Wow. And what was the frequency?

• 1:30:49Speaker 04

  It was around 1.6 gigahertz. And, and that's, you know, that's right where GPS is, that's where space to, uh, ground.

• 1:30:57AJ Gentile?

  GPS is 1575 and Iridium is 161.

• 1:30:59Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:31:00AJ Gentile?

  That's a busy frequency.

• 1:31:01Speaker 04

  That is a very busy, it's all space to ground, ground to space kind of stuff.

• 1:31:04AJ Gentile?

  And it was pegged?

• 1:31:05Speaker 04

  Pegged. And it was coming out of the ground.

• 1:31:09AJ Gentile?

  What is it?

• 1:31:10Speaker 04

  I don't know. I mean, I looked for it. I was like, I was like scratching my head, running around crazy, like a, you know, a chicken with his head cut off, not understanding what's going on. I was literally like a cockroach in a microwave, running around.

• 1:31:22AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:23Speaker 04

  I was running, like trying to figure out what was going on.

• 1:31:25AJ Gentile?

  Well, you drilled, you dug? What did you, what's down there?

• 1:31:28Speaker 04

  Don't know. We, so we, uh, we drilled in a spot where, um, ground penetrating radar told us there was some big anomaly in, in there. And, um, when we, we hit something and we put pressure against it, uh, eight thousand pounds of pressure against it for like minutes, many minutes. And you'd think the drill bit would have got hot, didn't it? It cooled off, which is odd. The friction would have been enormous unless it were frictionless.

• 1:31:53AJ Gentile?

  Odd? Impossible.

• 1:31:55Speaker 04

  Impossible, right, right. Unless it were frictionless or something. Uh, but what we found in the spoils pile, when we pulled, uh, pulled the drill bit out, uh, were these pieces of metallic, uh, fragments and they were ceramic like. And when we went and had them analyzed, they were, uh, they had been centered and built in a blast furnace in a way that, uh, the, the experts in the material, in the, uh, metal, uh, metallurgy lab said were like tiles on the space shuttle that, uh, are used for reentry. Or they're on Starship now, right? They use the same kind of tiles.

• 1:32:36Speaker 04

  Um, it's not the exact chemical makeup, but were built or manufactured in the same way. So there was something manufactured inside this mesa. And it was, this was three hundred and seventy-seven feet in and seventy-eight, seventy-five feet, I think, down.

• 1:32:49AJ Gentile?

  Was this an alloy?

• 1:32:51Speaker 04

  Uh, it's a mixture. It was a compound of something.

• 1:32:53AJ Gentile?

  It was a compound. So it was made?

• 1:32:54Speaker 04

  It was made, yes.

• 1:32:56AJ Gentile?

  What was, what were the metals? What were the components?

• 1:32:58Speaker 04

  Uh, well, so it had a little bit of, uh, aluminum in it. And what's really interesting is it had a mixture of fifty percent aluminum and fifty percent iron in some of the metal fragments, which we don't do that. We don't mix fifty-fifty aluminum and iron.

• 1:33:11AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 1:33:11Speaker 04

  Why? What is, what is that? Where'd that come from? And then the ceramic like fragments had, uh, all sorts of materials in it, like, uh, uh, there was some thorium, there was, uh, there was, uh...

• 1:33:23AJ Gentile?

  So that's radioactive?

• 1:33:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was very low level. It was very, very, very low level. It was, uh, uh, what else was in it? There was, of course, there was a lot of carbon. There, there was a little bit of aluminum. There was, it was almost like, uh, um, aluminum, uh, cutting blades. It was almost that kind of material. Or I originally tasted, it was kind of like a brake pad, you know?

• 1:33:45AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:33:46Speaker 04

  And I thought, somebody's buried a car down in there, right? But it wasn't exactly a brake pad, right? It was more like, uh, uh, it was hard on the outside and, and more fragile on the inside. Uh, and we took it and put it in an electron microscope at, uh, University, uh, uh, Utah Valley University in the physics department there. And when we hit it with electron beams, it would open up. And when we turned electron beams off, it would close back up in exactly the same configuration. It did it every time.

• 1:34:12AJ Gentile?

  Like, like self-healing metal?

• 1:34:13Speaker 04

  Well, that's what we thought it was. We thought we were blowing holes in it first and it was, and it was healing itself. But it, uh, it appeared to be more like an umbrella, that it was opening and closing. Or a pom-pom, when you put it in a, uh, static electric field, how it, or your hair will stand up and then it will go back down. It seemed more like that. Uh, I, but it, we're, we're still doing a lot more experimentation on that to figure that out. And some of the metal fragments we found were in layers. It had the iron and aluminum mixture as the middle, the Oreo part. And then the cookie part was on one side was almost pure tellurium. And the other side was almost pure europium. And that's really similar to how we build solar panels.

• 1:34:55AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:34:56Speaker 04

  And that's really odd also, you know? How did that get inside this mesa, you know, thirty-something? At, at, at the maximum, the, the maximum height or closest to the surface that our holes got to was thirty-eight feet down. But, uh, the materials, we believe, came out around seventy-eight feet, seventy-five feet down and three hundred and seventy-something feet in.

• 1:35:17AJ Gentile?

  How big is this object according to the GPR?

• 1:35:20Speaker 04

  Um, well, it's, it's like two, twenty meters wide. And, and it could be as much as, you know, fifty meters. It's like a cigar shape.

• 1:35:31AJ Gentile?

  It's cigar shaped?

• 1:35:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, it looks, it, what, I'll tell you what it looks like. And there are smaller pieces all around it. It, it literally looks like, uh, like an airplane crash debris field. It literally looks like something crashed into the mesa and there's pieces spread out in, in there. Uh, I mean, and here's the most bizarre thing. Um, we were looking at the material, uh, the metal fragment and, and from the elemental analysis of it, uh, the night we found it, we using the equipment we had on the ranch. And, uh, I said, well, it's not a meteor fragment. And, um, the Eric Bard said, well, the only thing that's missing to be a meteor would be to have some nickel in it. The next morning...

• 1:36:12AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 1:36:14Speaker 04

  The archaeologist pulled out of the same spot, three hundred and seventy-something feet in, seventy-something feet down, a nineteen sixty-four nickel.

• 1:36:25AJ Gentile?

  What is going on in that ranch, man?

• 1:36:27Speaker 04

  How can a nineteen sixty-four nickel get inside the mesa?

• 1:36:29AJ Gentile?

  It can't.

• 1:36:30Speaker 04

  Well, so we went, uh, so, and that's, it freaked me out, right? Our archaeologist said, well, that means there was a dig here. So what do you mean? He said, oh, it's standard, uh, protocol. Archaeologists are trained that when you finish a dig, you drop a coin from that year in the dig. So future archaeologists will know there was a dig here. And he said, I'll bet you anything, there was a dig here in nineteen sixty-four. So I went and got, uh, me and, and, uh, the other guys, we went and got every publicly available, um, aerial photograph of the property all the way from nineteen thirty-five. And what's interesting is from nineteen sixty-three to nineteen sixty-eight, the, uh, sixty-three is the last one and then sixty-nine is the next one.

• 1:37:11Speaker 04

  There are no images from sixty-four to sixty-eight that are available publicly. None. Zero.

• 1:37:17AJ Gentile?

  I don't like it, man.

• 1:37:18Speaker 04

  None.

• 1:37:20AJ Gentile?

  Can't be.

• 1:37:21Speaker 04

  And, and, and so it's, it's really bizarre that, uh, that, that something happened there and, and it's been, it's been covered. And we wonder, there's this mythos of people say bad things happen to you if you dig on Skinwalker Ranch. Makes me wonder if it was more of a non-disclosure agreement saying, bad things will happen to you if you dig on Skinwalker Ranch.

• 1:37:41AJ Gentile?

  It sounds like it. Um, I mean, we were talking earlier, I said, I don't really watch the show because I thought it was like another Oak Island thing. And you're like, no, man, it's all real, what we're doing there.

• 1:37:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:37:50AJ Gentile?

  What did you find on the ranch that, that compelled you to go to Washington and get in the skiff?

• 1:37:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, well, that first day when, um, uh, I started detecting these microwaves, they were, they were at levels that would be in violation of FCC regulations, right?

• 1:38:09AJ Gentile?

  Oh, I guess it's to jam the satellites?

• 1:38:11Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:38:12AJ Gentile?

  Oh, so that...

• 1:38:13Speaker 04

  And I was like, this is, somebody's doing something nefarious, is what I thought. I thought, is it Russians? Is it Chinese? Is it some kid doing something stupid?

• 1:38:21AJ Gentile?

  Think about the battlefield disruption, if you could do that.

• 1:38:23Speaker 04

  Oh, Lord, yeah. And none of our GPS stuff would work.

• 1:38:26AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:38:26Speaker 04

  So I'm thinking, oh, somebody's jamming GPS and, and why?

• 1:38:29AJ Gentile?

  No guidance, no ordinance?

• 1:38:31Speaker 04

  Well, think about airplanes landing at an airport.

• 1:38:33AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:38:33Speaker 04

  It really was kind of freaking me out. So I went to my, uh, uh, I had a security clearance, you know, my day job was still with the army. And I went and told our security guys, I said, well, I don't know what to do with that. Uh, let me see, let me call around, see who you need to talk to. And they kept handing me off up the food chain. And at the same time, one of our other guys, uh, that was there with me that day, uh, one of the scientists on the team, he had contacted some contacts and they kept doing the same, going up, trying to figure where, and eventually we got handed off to, well, you need to have a meeting with these people in the Pentagon. And so, all right, so I flew up to the Pentagon and briefed them on all the data. We were going to skiff. And these two guys come in and, uh, I noticed that one of them had a copy of, uh, my Alien Invasion book, which is a serious book I wrote in, uh, two thousand and three,

• 1:39:17Speaker 04

  uh, with, uh, one of my mentors in the intelligence community, Dr. Bob Bone. We were at a three-letter organization meeting and, uh...

• 1:39:25AJ Gentile?

  This is a serious book called Alien Invasion?

• 1:39:26Speaker 04

  Yes. It's a, it's a textbook on how we would defend the planet and what we should be doing to prepare.

• 1:39:30AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:39:31Speaker 04

  Uh, so...

• 1:39:32AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:33Speaker 04

  We were in...

• 1:39:33AJ Gentile?

  We need that.

• 1:39:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, we were in this meeting, it's after, you know, two years after nine eleven, we're in deep in Operation Anticon, all that stuff's going on. And so this is a top secret meeting on how to come up with clever ways to understand asymmetric warfare and all this stuff, right? You know, we were on the high side. Of course, the, the Iraqis and the Afghans and all those were on the low side. So we're, uh, we're in this meeting and, uh, this three-star general makes this comment, like, wow, we need to put ourselves in our enemy's shoes and walk a mile in them so we can understand how to think like them. And I laughed. And, um, and at this time, I was...

• 1:40:08AJ Gentile?

  You laughed out loud?

• 1:40:09Speaker 04

  Out loud, yes, yeah. At this time, I was like a GS-14 equivalent and, um, uh, and this was a three-star and, and, and he kind of harumph, you know, and, and my boss, uh, my mentor just, he said, he's like, oh, what, what's, I know what's coming now. But our boss was a, uh, a one-star equivalent in the three-letter organization. And, uh, and he kind of looked at me like, I don't know if you should say anything, but did you have something to say? I said, well, sir, uh, our poor people have X-boxes and, and two TVs and a car in the driveway. And they have hundred-dollar shoes. It's unlikely that they'll ever be able to understand these, these people that we're fighting because they have a completely different world they live in.

• 1:40:53Speaker 04

  The only way Americans would ever be on the low side of asymmetric war was if we were invaded by aliens. I was doing a typical southern thing, explaining by exaggeration.

• 1:41:04Speaker 04

  Well, the general just kinda rolled his eyes and moved on. So after the meeting, or at a break in the meeting, we're in the, in the, in the break room and I'm getting a soft drink or whatever and, um, and, and the three-letter boss comes up to me, three-letter organization boss comes up to me and he says, "What would we do if we were invaded by aliens?"

• 1:41:24AJ Gentile?

  That's my next question.

• 1:41:25Speaker 04

  And, and, uh, and I said, "We'd probably die."

• 1:41:28AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 1:41:29Speaker 04

  And he said, "Well, do we have a plan?" And I'd say, "Well, I think you would know more about that than I..." And he said, "Well, why don't you two look?" And he just talked to me and my mentor and said, "Why don't you two look and see what you can come up with?" And so we spent the next year studying warfare, warfare models, uh, intelligence models, technologies, and it led us to, uh, we kinda threw together this book on all the things that we'd studied. And of course, we briefed it at other levels, but we, uh, but we asked, we said, "Can we publish this as a, as a book?" And they were, "Sure, we don't care." You know, and, uh, and, uh, so we did, and it's interesting, on the cover of the book, uh, the first version of it, uh, the chief scientist of the, uh, NRO actually put on there that, uh, it was, it was fascinating.

• 1:42:12Speaker 04

  So, um, in, anyway, we, um, uh, so I'm in, moved back, moved back to where we were with the Skinwalker story. So I'm in this room in the Pentagon and this guy's got a copy of my book. And it's got some post-it notes in it. And after a bit, he asks everybody else to leave but me. And he says, "Uh, I'm Jay Stratton. I'm the director of, uh, the government's present UFO program." And I was at Skinwalker Ranch in 2009, or whatever year it was, I think it was 2009. And, uh, he said, "I'm, I'm aware of what's going on out there and, uh, I'd like for you to come work for us on the UAP Task Force." It wasn't called that. It's called, at the time, it's called the Interagency, Interagency Task Force.

• 1:42:56Speaker 04

  And it was, uh, that's just how we referred to it. There was no official title for it. But it was official and funded. It just didn't have an official title. I think for a purpose, right?

• 1:43:06AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:43:07Speaker 04

  If they give it a title, then they have to worry about explaining it to somebody.

• 1:43:10AJ Gentile?

  Right. ATIP was not an official title, right?

• 1:43:12Speaker 04

  Uh, ATIP was never an official title. So what it was, OSAT was actually a contract.

• 1:43:17AJ Gentile?

  Right. That's Bigelow's program.

• 1:43:18Speaker 04

  Yep. And what it was, they actually released a call for proposals. And Bigelow Aerospace was the only company that responded to the proposal. So, I mean, they awarded a contract.

• 1:43:27AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:43:28Speaker 04

  And, uh, then when, uh, so the interesting thing about that, and, and, uh, the, the award, original award was for 20-something million dollars. But, uh, some people in the Pentagon found out about what was going on, didn't like it, and, and pulled about half of the money. And I think Bigelow, I don't, I mean, rightfully so, got pissed, you know, they didn't get all the money that he was supposed to get. And, um, so what, what you got from the end results of that was just a final report written by Eric Davis and how put off or whatever, and none of the details of the findings. Everybody thinks Bigelow still has something hidden away somewhere here in Vegas at his facility, you know?

• 1:44:07Speaker 04

  Um, I, I, whether that's the case or not, uh, I, it doesn't matter. I mean, what the government got was what they got.

• 1:44:15AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:44:15Speaker 04

  And, um,

• 1:44:16AJ Gentile?

  I don't think he's hiding anything.

• 1:44:18Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't, I don't think Bigelow's hiding anything at all. In fact, uh, when we've talked to him, um, he doesn't have any desire to go back to the property. Uh, he, he thinks it, it was not beneficial to him and his family, right? And, uh, uh, and, and by the end of it, they were so perplexed as to what the hell was going on, that I think they just kinda gave up. And, uh, while they weren't, while he was happy to get rid of it, at the same time, he's still curious, I think. I think him and, well, I know him and Jay still talk, uh, a lot. Uh, and I think him and Brandon talk occasionally as well. Brandon Fugel, the new owner of the property.

• 1:44:53AJ Gentile?

  Well, I think Bob wants to know what's going on. He just doesn't want to pay for it.

• 1:44:55Speaker 04

  Well, I, I get the impression that, uh, he became a billionaire by not wasting his money.

• 1:45:02AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:45:03Speaker 04

  And when I talked to the, his team members of the time, they didn't have a lot of funds and a lot of resources, right? I mean, they, they would get stuff when they needed it, but it, uh, and here's the other thing. In the nineties and early 2000s when they did this, the technology that we're using today would have cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars. And we're paying 50 bucks or a hundred bucks for something. That's such a really exquisite piece of equipment now. So just due to, you know, more potential, uh, the new, the research we're doing out there now is, is way better funded, it's way better documented. I mean, we've got better equipment, just cause technology and improvement, right?

• 1:45:40AJ Gentile?

  Before we get back to the ranch, can you tell me what's an alien invasion? What's our strategy? What are our tactics?

• 1:45:45Speaker 04

  So, um, I created a model, well, first is to be prepared. That was our first thing, was basically the Boy Scout motto, be prepared, right? And, and we're not.

• 1:45:53AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 1:45:54Speaker 04

  Uh, we're not, we don't, we, when we talked to people within the, the services and the agencies, they all said, "We treat it like any other invasion and, and do reconnaissance and then decide on a tactical plan." They had no strategic plan, right, for this. It's all gonna be, we'll treat it just like any other warfare. But it's not gonna be like any other warfare. If they can travel from here to there, they're, they're gonna have le- levels of technologies that, uh, will look like magic and we're gonna have to think about that. And we even actually came up with scenarios that were religious invasions, uh, uh, political invasions, uh, you know, magic, you know, things like that, that we wouldn't really, or time invasions. Uh, one of the things that,

• 1:46:36AJ Gentile?

  Time invasions.

• 1:46:37Speaker 04

  Yeah. It was, think about, think about it like this. Uh, I use Independence Day as a perfect example. They, people don't think about what was going on in, in Independence Day. They say, "Well, that ship crashed here in the 50s or whatever, and we, we hadn't reverse engineered much on it." Well, did it crash here in the 50s for the aliens? If that mothership was approaching it and slowing down from near the speed of light, and they sent the scout ship out there, uh, it could have been five minutes onboard the ship.

• 1:47:06AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:47:06Speaker 04

  Right? And, uh, and they could have been, they, they, they could have known that and been, done something to prepare us in a way that would embed weaknesses into our systems, right? Uh, so we're not thinking about any strategic, uh, plans like that. And so I created from what's called Lanchester's Laws. It's where every video game engine, every, every combat model, everything is based on. And they were created in 1917 and Enrico Fermi should have known better when he, when he did his stupid Fermi's paradox thing.

• 1:47:38AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:38Speaker 04

  We could talk about that, but that, it's just stupid. Um, anyway.

• 1:47:42AJ Gentile?

  You think his paradox is stupid? Like where, where are the aliens?

• 1:47:44Speaker 04

  Yeah. That's the dumbest thing, because he based it on, uh, exponential growth model.

• 1:47:49AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:49Speaker 04

  And there was no known species period in history that's ever grown that way. And with, especially with no competition, et cetera. And, uh, and the way predator-prey species work was known very well, and it was created a set of laws called Lanchester's Laws in 1917. And that's, like I said, uh, Lanchester was given money by the War Department to study predator and prey, uh, models to create models for warfare. And it worked very well. Otherwise, Call of Duty wouldn't work the way it does.

• 1:48:22AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:48:22Speaker 04

  Right? Fortnite wouldn't work the way it does. All these things wouldn't work the way they do. And, um, so, um, anyway, if Fermi would have known that, he would have realized his question was using math that didn't fit the, the, the model, right? It was, he said, "Well, I'm gonna apply this math that we know doesn't fit any known species and say, 'Well, then all the species in the universe have already overrun us by now.'" Well, but that's not the same model. It's, it's, it's, it's really bad science. It's really bad science. And for a Nobel Prize-winning Manhattan Project physicist to have done that, I call that the, uh, famous scientist phenomenon.

• 1:49:02AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:49:03Speaker 04

  Just because he was famous, everybody believes it, right? And I, I refer to it as Fermi's blunder. I don't refer to it as Fermi's paradox.

• 1:49:10AJ Gentile?

  Right. There's no such thing as elephants. Why not? I've never seen one.

• 1:49:12Speaker 04

  That's right. I've never seen one. And hey, uh, people think that reindeer can't fly. Uh, have you ever seen them not? I mean, have you, just because you haven't seen them, it doesn't mean they can't. They just choose not to when you're there, right? So, uh, that's, that, that's that square root of four thing again, right? So, um, uh, where were we going with this?

• 1:49:31AJ Gentile?

  Lanchester.

• 1:49:32Speaker 04

  Lanche- oh, yeah. So, so I created a model, uh, in detail on a modern invasion scenario. They accounted for everything, mobile forces, ground forces, air forces, artillery, uh, blue on blue, which is, you know, you know, self, uh, infliction. And, uh, uh, everything I could think of embedded in the model, and then started running scenarios of invasions. And I would give the invading force force multipliers.

• 1:49:59AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:00Speaker 04

  Uh, like, for example, it would take 10 hits of, of, of a 565 round, you know, before it would penetrate. And they have armor or force fields or whatever.

• 1:50:09AJ Gentile?

  Is the Call of Duty bullet sponge?

• 1:50:11Speaker 04

  Pretty much. Yeah. Uh, and, and so I would, I would give them, uh, speed, uh, maybe their mobile forces were three times faster. I tried all sorts of different scenarios and, uh, and basically in no scenario, uh, did we win. And I did something like 100 to 200 different scenarios. And the only one that we, that I did find a solution where we would win, it was really interesting. I said, "Well, let's try Independence Day. All of them at once. They come here and they invade us. And let's say that they can get reinforcements back from their home world, say, every 20 years." And, uh, to some amount of reinforcements. I gave them numbers, right? If they started with some number, say they had 100 to start with, and they could get 10 every 10, whatever it was.

• 1:50:56Speaker 04

  Um, and the invasion starts, they pretty much wipe out 90% of the population in the first, you know, day. But now here's the scenario.

• 1:51:09Speaker 04

  Every human being of the age fourteen or older, which is, I just guess that's the age old enough to carry a weapon.

• 1:51:15AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:16Speaker 04

  Was carrying a weapon, or in some form or fashion, supporting the war effort. Every female of fertile age was pregnant with triplets.

• 1:51:26AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:51:27Speaker 04

  Uh, and at that-

• 1:51:29AJ Gentile?

  This is the way we went?

• 1:51:30Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:51:31AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:51:32Speaker 04

  And at that point, uh, the population starts in cycles increasing-

• 1:51:35AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:51:36Speaker 04

  -to a point where we, uh, we had a resistance, basically, uh, uh, an asymmetric situation. And after about forty years, it became too expensive for the aliens, and they would either completely be attrited, or give up and leave. And when I got to looking at the model, I realized I just recreated the Soviet-Afghan War.

• 1:51:58AJ Gentile?

  Yes. In the seventies, yes.

• 1:52:01Speaker 04

  And, and that's exactly what happened, right? Now, the only thing different is, uh, the Afghanis did have a, a symmetric, uh, organization feeding technologies to them.

• 1:52:11AJ Gentile?

  They did.

• 1:52:12Speaker 04

  Uh, you know, we gave them, you know, anti-aircraft, uh-

• 1:52:15AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:16Speaker 04

  -weapons and stuff, but, uh, or anti-helicopter, mostly. But, uh, that, that was the only scenario where we, is if we create a, you know, a resistance movement, we, we repopulate as fast as possible. And so I was thinking, you know, fertility drugs, whatever, uh-

• 1:52:32AJ Gentile?

  Was it America only, or the whole world?

• 1:52:34Speaker 04

  This was the whole world.

• 1:52:35AJ Gentile?

  The whole world?

• 1:52:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:37AJ Gentile?

  So that, that has to happen, too.

• 1:52:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:39AJ Gentile?

  Everybody's gotta get, get in line.

• 1:52:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, so, the onslaught at the beginning would, would just remove, you know, government lines.

• 1:52:44AJ Gentile?

  That's true.

• 1:52:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's just, it's, it's Terminator at that point.

• 1:52:47AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:49AJ Gentile?

  I gotta read this. It's kinda dark.

• 1:52:51Speaker 04

  It's, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it reads very, it's, it was, it was written like a textbook, it was dry, it wa- but it, but it, it, it is to say, alright, somebody needs to look at this and realize we're not doing it. You know, one of the things that, um, that Jay and I had planned to do, and I, it's one of my plans, I, I've written about, I've talked about, that the first thing you have to do to create a real team, uh, is they have to have a common nomenclature. And so, for the first month, two months, I would have the entire team watching every science fiction movie, reading every comic book, watching every cartoon, eh, cause, I'll give you a perfect example. Um, John Ringo, bestselling military science fiction writer, and I, uh, co-authored a book called Von Neumann's War.

• 1:53:35Speaker 04

  Uh, it's a science fiction, uh, basically of Von Neumann probes came here, and we started defending against them. Well, I had one of the, they, they did this in the book, they had a team where they, they got together and they spent, like, two weeks cramming on every sci-fi thing they could, and somebody realized that in the second season of Justice League Unlimited, there was an episode called Dark Heart. And Dark Heart was a Von Neumann probe generating device crashed on Earth, and started creating Von Neumann probes, replicators, going everywhere. And they were eating everything and reproducing themselves. And the entire Justice League couldn't defeat these things, it was Superman and all of them, you know?

• 1:54:18Speaker 04

  And, uh, it took the, the atom, Ray Park, Dr. Park, to, uh, uh, uh, realize he had to go down in nanoscale and find their, their main processor chip that had the program to replicate, and turn it off. But, uh, spoiler, I guess. Uh, but, I had the nomenclature to be able to tell, tell people, hey, what if it's the Dark Heart scenario, and we need to figure out if there's something like what they, how they did that? You know, or, or what if, and, not to, you know, throw rocks at a Steven Spielberg movie, but if you ever saw the, uh, the mini-series he did that made Dakota Fanning famous, uh, Taken?

• 1:54:54AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:54:55Speaker 04

  And if you watched Disclosure Day, they're the same plot.

• 1:54:57AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:54:58Speaker 04

  Did you notice that?

• 1:55:00AJ Gentile?

  Of course!

• 1:55:01Speaker 04

  It was the same plot, uh, everything-

• 1:55:02AJ Gentile?

  I didn't love that movie.

• 1:55:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, it, it, I was, I was hoping for, for, it was, it was not bad, it was a, it was a movie.

• 1:55:08AJ Gentile?

  It was a Spielberg movie.

• 1:55:09Speaker 04

  Yeah. Uh, uh, it, it was, but, but my, my point was, I just used a previous nomenclature to tell you what this scenario was. And now I don't have to go and, and figure out a way to explain it to everybody. Right? We have a common language that we can speak. I, I could say, oh, you remember that episode of Stargate SG-1?

• 1:55:29AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:55:30Speaker 04

  Right? Where they did this or that? Or you remember, uh, we had a conversation earlier-

• 1:55:33AJ Gentile?

  Star Trek.

• 1:55:34Speaker 04

  Where I brought up Star Trek: Next Generation, the episode of the threes, right?

• 1:55:37AJ Gentile?

  Right, I get it now.

• 1:55:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, and so, that's, that's our common nomenclature. And I wonder if we've been doing that by accident or on purpose.

• 1:55:46AJ Gentile?

  That's interesting.

• 1:55:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:55:52AJ Gentile?

  I hope so.

• 1:55:53Speaker 04

  I hope so, too.

• 1:55:54AJ Gentile?

  Uh, speaking of your books, your first book, I think, was about a physicist who does something and gets, like, the, the government angry, or the Cabal or something like that? Was that warp drive?

• 1:56:07Speaker 04

  So, uh, warp speed.

• 1:56:09AJ Gentile?

  Warp speed.

• 1:56:10Speaker 04

  Well, it was a little, it's a little, eh, it, so it was about the first group of, uh, scientists that, uh, that build a warp drive demonstrator.

• 1:56:21AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:56:22Speaker 04

  And they, um, they go to, it's the Space Shuttle era, so this was written in 2000. Uh, and they go up to do the experiment on the shuttle, and, um, unbeknownst to them, of course, there are some bad guys who realize that a warp drive would be a much better than a nuclear weapon.

• 1:56:39AJ Gentile?

  Sure would.

• 1:56:40Speaker 04

  If you slammed it into the, uh, slammed an object into the planet at, you know, speeder, the speed of light, you, you know, you'd crack the planet in half-

• 1:56:47AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:48Speaker 04

  -or whatever. Uh, you know, I don't know why people would want a weapon that would do that, unless you're planning on fighting a whole planet, but, um, and so, there was a lot of, uh, mayhem that ensued with that, and it turned out, uh, the sequel to that, actually, I, I went more into what that cabal was, and it didn't have anything to do with gray aliens from Zeta Reticula.

• 1:57:09AJ Gentile?

  Well, you eventually, you spent a lot of time in the intelligence community, so what did that, that author get right?

• 1:57:15Speaker 04

  Uh, what, what did I get right in that story?

• 1:57:19AJ Gentile?

  What did you get right?

• 1:57:20Speaker 04

  What did I get right?

• 1:57:21AJ Gentile?

  Then over your career, you're like, well, shit, I wrote about that ten years ago.

• 1:57:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, you know, I had to, um, uh, before I could release those, the, the first ones, I was heavy into the, the IC stuff, and they had to pre-read it and, and, and do Dopser's, what they call it now, you know?

• 1:57:37AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:38Speaker 04

  To say it's, uh, you can release it to the public. And then after, I, I started being more prolific, I wrote about four or five science fiction novels all at once, it, it comes and goes in surges, right? And, and so the review team was like, we're not gonna keep doing these, you know if it's classified or not, don't put it in there, uh, if you do, you'll get in trouble.

• 1:57:54AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:57:55Speaker 04

  I mean, it's basically, and so they, they said, we're not reviewing your science fiction stuff anymore, it's science fiction. Uh, and so, but I've always done my best to make it hard science, uh, as true to possible as it could be, uh, with as few magic wands as possible. Uh, of course, there has to be a magic wand that, you know, we haven't invented yet, or, or it's not as much fun. Uh, I mean, would Raiders of the Lost Ark be as awesome if the Ark didn't do what it did at the end?

• 1:58:22AJ Gentile?

  No, you needed the faces to melt.

• 1:58:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, you have to.

• 1:58:24AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:58:25Speaker 04

  Uh, so, uh, that, that's kinda the way they are, but I, I, I got, I did things like with security clearances and, and, and, oh, you couldn't carry a cellphone. Like, that's one of the things that kills me about Stargate SG-1, is, uh, they get a lot of it right, but you'll see them in the, in, in the facility with their cellphones.

• 1:58:46AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:47Speaker 04

  And I'm like, there, there's a lockbox right outside the door, that you know there's no cellphones in there, unless they had some kind of alien technology that allowed them to have super-secret cellphones that, that could do that. But, there, there, there are a lot of little things like that that get on my nerves when I see that.

• 1:59:04AJ Gentile?

  How close was your warp drive to, like, the Alba Carey drive?

• 1:59:07Speaker 04

  Well, so it was basically an Alcubierre, uh-

• 1:59:09AJ Gentile?

  Was it?

• 1:59:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:59:11AJ Gentile?

  So, so explain how that works.

• 1:59:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, uh, in 1994, Miguel Alcubierre wrote a, a paper called something like, uh, hyper-fast travel within general relativity. And the, uh, the paper showed that if you created a, basically, a, a dip in space in front of you and a bump in space behind you, that, uh, that spacetime itself would push your spacecraft. Not, you wouldn't need propulsion, uh, you know, exhaust or anything, it would just, spacetime would move it.

• 1:59:44AJ Gentile?

  You'd just fall.

• 1:59:45Speaker 04

  Yep. And keep falling.

• 1:59:47AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:48Speaker 04

  Right? And you could make it fall as fast as you want to, arbitrarily fast speeds, he said. But the problem with his paper is he showed that it took basically all the matter in the universe, uh, energy-wise, to create that. But immediately, but it, uh, so, but that's okay. He showed that it was doable within the, the, the theory of physics as we understand it, our standard model. And, uh, then that says, okay, then if he can do it this way, are there other ways to do it that makes it, you know, actually engineering-able? Uh, engineer-able, I guess. Uh, in, anyway, so immediately before, he'd wrote it 94, before 2000, there were, I'm gonna say a hundred papers written, where they'd kept incrementally getting his theory

• 2:00:32Speaker 04

  better, the idea better, that, uh, okay, we could, and it got down to say, oh, the mass of a star, uh, then, oh, wait, the, the mass of a planet. Now, and, uh, you know, I recently had a paper published about a year ago in, uh, Journal British in Planetary, uh, Society, uh, that showed that if you made layers of material, uh, and you had the warp field in the material, that you could get to almost no, uh, exotic, uh, matter requirement, and, and, and it's not the matter, the mass of a star, or the mass of a galaxy, you could get down to you, actual numbers that we could actually engineer.

• 2:01:10AJ Gentile?

  I think I read this paper, is this about the electromagnetic field through the, through the wave guides of the, of the metal?

• 2:01:17Speaker 04

  It's similar, uh, that was one of the papers, there's a paper like that that I use as a reference.

• 2:01:21AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:01:22Speaker 04

  But, uh, I'll send you a copy of it, uh, it, it actually shows that, uh, the idea is you can modify Einstein's equations in the material.

• 2:01:32AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:01:33Speaker 04

  Right? So it's like, you don't change the speed of light in the air, you change the speed of light in the material that is the hull of your spaceship. Which really, I got the idea from some of the whistleblower, uh, statements on how they, number one, also from the original Art's parts, and I can't talk about the stuff without talking about Art Bell.

• 2:01:52AJ Gentile?

  Uh, he's, he's on my list.

• 2:01:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, uh, back in the 90s, I was a master's degree student in physics at the time, working for the army in a, in a directed energy weapons laboratory, and I heard Linda Howe talking about the parts that she had received, or that Art had received, and that she was investigating, uh, that allegedly came from the Roswell crash. And so I emailed Linda Howe and said, I'm a scientist with the army, I have a laboratory, my boss has said, okay, I could use the lab at, you know, after work hours.

• 2:02:24AJ Gentile?

  Well, hang on, if we're gonna talk about this, let's set it up, so, so someone calls Art Bell and says, I've got this stuff, and he says, if it's real, send it to me, and they did, and then Art sends it to you?

• 2:02:33Speaker 04

  Yes. After I emailed and said, I'm a scientist for the army, I'd love to.

• 2:02:37AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:02:38Speaker 04

  And he said, and so Art and Linda Howe said, okay, uh, we're gonna send it to you, and you do what you can do. And so they sent me all the information, then the letter, a copy of the letter that the guy had sent to Art Bell, and so I got the parts and I started investigating them, they were really interesting, they were layers of, uh, of a magnesium zinc alloy, uh, between, and between those, there's like, one Oreo cookie on top of another, and the, and the double stuff was, uh, pure bismuth.

• 2:03:05AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:03:06Speaker 04

  And, uh, and it was really thin, like, uh, I think it was like, uh, four microns or something like that, really, really, really thin. And they were stacked together, and there were tins of layers, and they weren't delaminating, they weren't peeling apart. And, uh, every attempt that I did, and I, anybody that I know, and I even know that some folks at the Skunk Works tried to reproduce them, and they could never reproduce the material without them pulling apart, and I, I know that even at the Skunk Works, they destroyed a million dollar piece of equipment trying to reproduce the parts. And, and so, since, no, since we never could reproduce the parts, number one tells me, somebody spent a lot of money, or got really lucky if it was a hoax, trying to do it. And then my other thought was, okay, it was for something.

• 2:03:47Speaker 04

  Well, in the letter, it says, if you get it in a million volt static electric field and expose it to certain frequencies, that it'll do things. So I built a million volt, uh, static field generator, and, uh, then I, uh, put the materials in there, and, and I found that when I hit it with a particular frequency, and I don't remember exactly, I have to look, it was around 30 to 40 megahertz, I know, that's interesting that number comes up.

• 2:04:11AJ Gentile?

  It is.

• 2:04:12Speaker 04

  Right? It's around 30 to 40 megahertz that, uh, it, it, every single time, once it was charged up to a million volts, and I would hit it with that, the object would either move directly towards the antenna, or directly away from the antenna. And I, and it was repeatable. And...

• 2:04:28AJ Gentile?

  Is there video of this?

• 2:04:30Speaker 04

  There was, I, I videoed it all and sent to Linda, she's got it, I think it's on her website, actually.

• 2:04:35AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:04:36Speaker 04

  Um, this was in the 90s, man.

• 2:04:38AJ Gentile?

  I would think the military would wanna talk to you about this.

• 2:04:41Speaker 04

  Well, they never did.

• 2:04:42AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:04:43Speaker 04

  And then, uh, when I got on the UAP Task Force, I realized that, uh, the parts that Tom DeLonge had, uh, were the same parts.

• 2:04:52AJ Gentile?

  The same exact parts?

• 2:04:55Speaker 04

  Same exact parts, that I'd sent back to Linda Howe when I was done with them.

• 2:04:58AJ Gentile?

  Tom got Art's parts?

• 2:04:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:05:00AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 2:05:01Speaker 04

  And, uh, and, uh, so, his team were, were looking at it, and there was a guy that was working, uh, so somehow they were, you know, Tom and Jay knew each other through, uh, circles, and so Jay was very aware of the research, and had me connect with him, and I told him what I had seen, and they tried it, and they said they had seen, I think, the, uh, similar things, and nobody had still been able to reproduce them, and this is 20 years later, right? So in 20 something years, and see, I never had any funding to look at it, I mean, I just did it on my own spare time after hours in the lab. And, uh, and so Jay and I were gonna do more with it at this point, we were supposed to get funding, uh, for the UAP Task Force to look into these things.

• 2:05:45Speaker 04

  So my point about Art's parts is, I'm not saying they're alien, I don't know what they are, but whoever made them had some purpose for them.

• 2:05:55AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:05:56Speaker 04

  And if it was a hoax, it was a dang expensive or, or clever hoax, because we haven't been able to reproduce those same materials in the same way and keep them from falling apart.

• 2:06:08AJ Gentile?

  You can't organize bismuth at the micron level?

• 2:06:12Speaker 04

  Well, so, they were, the way we reproduced them was vacuum vapor deposition.

• 2:06:16AJ Gentile?

  Uh-huh.

• 2:06:17Speaker 04

  But it, it peeled, peeled off every time. Uh, and, and so I, I don't know how this was put together, and it's really interesting to me, there's a, there's a sort of a random jaggedness to the interface between the bismuth and the metal part. And, uh, Howe put off, and Eric Davis, uh, they suggested that it was some sort of fractal pattern that enabled it. And, uh, so I got to looking into it, and if it is a fractal pattern, then perhaps what it's doing is creating, uh, points where cohesion can actually hap, where it can, stickiness, right? Like vanderwolds between the, the points that are close to each other?

• 2:07:02AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:07:03Speaker 04

  Uh, and maybe that's what's helping hold it together, but that's just a hypothesis, and again, there's no, not been any money really spent to reproduce these things or, or reverse engineer them. Uh, the same problem happened with the Kona Blue thing, right? Uh, that, you know, that's where, uh, Howe was supposed to get some parts to work on, and...

• 2:07:24AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:07:25Speaker 04

  And, uh, got right up to the end, and then some people had it crushed, and didn't let, didn't give them the parts.

• 2:07:28AJ Gentile?

  That's right, Kona Blue with a K, if you guys wanna look that up. How close was that, that sandwich technique to what you found on the ranch?

• 2:07:35Speaker 04

  So, when I first saw the metal flakes that had the aluminum, iron, uh, coated with the tellurium and europium?

• 2:07:44AJ Gentile?

  You said coated?

• 2:07:45Speaker 04

  Well, so it's like, uh, the center substrate is a, it's maybe a tenth of a millimeter of aluminum iron, uh, alloy, and then on the to, on one side, well, top or bottom, I don't know what's up, but on one side, uh, it was almost pure tellurium, and on the other side, it was almost pure europium.

• 2:08:02AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:08:03Speaker 04

  Which is clearly manufactured.

• 2:08:05AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:08:06Speaker 04

  But why, I don't know. Um, and so that, just because it was layered like that is, is the one thing that I thought was interesting, uh, that was similar. It looked like, visibly, it looked very similar to the Art's parts material.

• 2:08:20AJ Gentile?

  Would that stuff conduct electricity?

• 2:08:22Speaker 04

  Oh, oh yeah, the aluminum iron mixture? Or are you talking about Art's parts stuff?

• 2:08:27AJ Gentile?

  No, the stuff you found on the ranch, it would conduct.

• 2:08:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, uh, and I tell you what, the, the ceramic that we found, it was really interesting because it was, uh, it was paramagnetic, if not superconducting, at room temperature.

• 2:08:39AJ Gentile?

  At room temperature?

• 2:08:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, we could hold it over a magnet, and it would jump away from the magnet. And this is a ceramic-like material. We put it in a, a ni, liquid nitrogen bath, and it would never cool down. So, and I mean, it continually boiled off at a high rate, the, the liquid nitrogen.

• 2:08:57AJ Gentile?

  So it's energetic ceramic?

• 2:08:59Speaker 04

  Uh, it's doing something that's not letting itself cool down. That's all I, that's all I know. We let it set for an hour and the liquid nitrogen had to continually refuel and the liquid nitrogen was boiling off at a rate faster than standard liquid nitrogen boil off.

• 2:09:13AJ Gentile?

  Are you guys just standing around like, I don't know. I don't know what, what it's doing.

• 2:09:15Speaker 04

  That's exactly what we're doing. We're standing there going, what the hell's going on? And I've never seen anything like this in a while. Now, now the really weird thing, we need to reproduce this many times before I'll really stand up and down and say there's something to it. But I took a, uh, we call them dollys on Rocket City rednecks because they wouldn't let us say Sharpie on TV. But I took, but I took a dolly and I put a dot on one side of the ceramic material. And then I put it in a mettler balance and I held a magnet above the, the thing. And I, and I tested many times to make sure I was, I found the range where I wasn't affecting the balance. And I held a magnet over it and got the weight. Then I just flipped over the material and did, repeated the experiment. One side was always heavier than the other.

• 2:09:59AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 2:10:00Speaker 04

  And then we did that like 20 times that day. We had the materials in the lab. And, and it was, uh, the average over the 20 times was always the side, one side was always heavier than the other. And it was the same side. It was always heavier than the other.

• 2:10:16AJ Gentile?

  I don't know if this is the right term, but have you ever heard of flux pinning?

• 2:10:18Speaker 04

  Yes. In fact, that came up.

• 2:10:21AJ Gentile?

  It did?

• 2:10:21Speaker 04

  That came up in, yes.

• 2:10:22AJ Gentile?

  Do you have to explain that? That's crazy. This came up flux. Okay.

• 2:10:26Speaker 04

  So the idea, so that's basically the Meisner effect, right? So if you take a, a, a superconductor and, um, you put it, whenever it becomes superconducting. The, and you typically see this in the videos, they'll pour the liquid nitrogen over the little ceramic block and then it'll start floating.

• 2:10:44AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:10:45Speaker 04

  Well, so as soon as it becomes superconducting, it, it sets itself up, up interior wise. That it is mapped, mapping out the magnetic field it's exposed to currently. Now, if you change that magnetic field, the superconductor had already pinned the flux inside the superconductor in a way that it will always oppose any changes. So that the magnetic field stays the same inside the superconductor. So that's why if you touch it, it'll spin itself back to the orientation where the magnetic field was. That's why you can thump them and they'll just sit there and spin forever. Cause it's trying to get itself back to where the magnetic field is, the way it was when it first became a superconductor.

• 2:11:23AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:11:24Speaker 04

  And so we thought about this, well, is it possible that this is room temperature Meisner effect that we're seeing happen? And, uh, it, but we, we were hoping that we would see other superconducting properties. Uh, and we haven't seen, but what we do see is something that it's paramagnetic like, which is light, superconducting like it's, it's like there's, there's almost superconducting. And it's, it's kind of what we call paramag, paramagnetic. And, um, so this is one of the most baffling that, so this is another one of the things we can't explain is coming out of Skinwalker Ranch.

• 2:11:59AJ Gentile?

  Let's say a quick break. When we come back, I want to know what can shut off a drone at 3,000 feet.

• 2:12:02Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, absolutely.

• 2:12:06AJ Gentile?

  So seven years of instruments have sketched out something on that property where GPS doesn't work. And what is going on with the drones? What can shut off a drone at exactly the same height?

• 2:12:15Speaker 04

  That's, that's really bizarre and, and how? Because the drone comms are encrypted. And, uh, so if you're talking about the, uh, experiment that we actually just showed this past week, I think.

• 2:12:27AJ Gentile?

  The 3271.

• 2:12:28Speaker 04

  Yeah. So we got up to just over 3,000 feet. We, it's really interesting. Over the years, we've, uh, flown weather balloons, helicopters, rockets, drones, all sorts of things. Well, uh, drones can't go higher than 400 feet without a special permit.

• 2:12:40AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:12:41Speaker 04

  Uh, but we've, we've flown all the way up to 10,000 feet above sea level, a little bit higher, maybe 11,000. Uh, because, uh, we've, we've measured anomalies there with instruments and, and the, the weather balloon we launched there went up to 70,000 feet. And we measured stuff all the way up through to about 20,000 feet. There were high electromagnetic fields that were surging on a perfectly clear day. And the instruments acted like they had gone through an electrical storm.

• 2:13:09AJ Gentile?

  And this happening up in the atmosphere?

• 2:13:10Speaker 04

  All the way from the surface upwards in that one spot over the property. And what's really weird is we've launched balloons before and, uh, air currents will take them and they'll go, you know, miles and miles and miles. But, uh, we, we had, uh, one day where we launched a balloon there and it went straight up and came straight down and landed on the property.

• 2:13:28AJ Gentile?

  That shouldn't happen.

• 2:13:29Speaker 04

  No, it shouldn't happen. No, it can't, that can't happen. Are you kidding? I've done a lot of high altitude balloon launches with instruments on them and I find them in the next state, you know, I don't, I don't find it. If, if you find them at all, right?

• 2:13:40AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:40Speaker 04

  And so we flew one that had a, um, tracker on it. And when it got to 5,000 feet, it vanished. The tracker quit working. Uh, the balloon went away. We literally sat there watching it and then none of us could see it anymore.

• 2:13:52AJ Gentile?

  Um, did it ever show up?

• 2:13:54Speaker 04

  Nobody ever found it. Nobody ever found it. And we never found the, and it had a tracker on it. Tracker just went away. Um, and, and so the, we've, we hit a, so a few years back, we had an anomaly where rockets kept messing up around 30 feet above the launch pad in this one spot.

• 2:14:11AJ Gentile?

  30 feet?

• 2:14:12Speaker 04

  Around 30 feet. And, uh, in fact, we had a big one. We spent a lot of money on building. It had a lot of instruments in it and at 31 feet it exploded. And, uh, so we were doing an experiment with a high-speed camera and a rocket in the same spot. And there was a flash of light and then the rocket exploded at 31 feet. And then in the high-speed infrared camera, there was an appearance of an object overhead that was tens of meters across. And when I, when it, it looked like Galactus's helmet in, in the video. I mean, it has a, like a, it had a thing like this or, but then we found it in another camera. That was 90 degrees off. So it was orthogonal and it looked exactly the same. So it's, uh, it suggests geometric symmetry, like a sombrero.

• 2:14:56AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:56Speaker 04

  Right? Uh, that's kind of what I'm thinking is like a sombrero.

• 2:14:59AJ Gentile?

  So it wasn't exactly opposed. It was an angle. So it had to be.

• 2:15:02Speaker 04

  It had to be symmetric or if you look at something that's in another dimension.

• 2:15:06AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:07Speaker 04

  It always will look the same.

• 2:15:08AJ Gentile?

  Right. It's like a hypercube.

• 2:15:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. And so it was, uh, the tesseract, right?

• 2:15:12AJ Gentile?

  Or tesseract.

• 2:15:13Speaker 04

  So it was one of those things that made, that, you know, I said for fun, uh, but, but what we have, the data, what we have was when we hit this thing at 31 feet, the rocket exploded. Um, there was a flash of light and the object that we captured, whatever it was, we couldn't see with the naked eye, but in the infrared, it was sitting there over our heads at 31 feet. We refer to it as the blob because it looks kind of like a blob. So we, hey, this is weird. We found a Navajo sand painting. That looks just like what we saw in the infrared, uh, which I find really odd, right?

• 2:15:44AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:45Speaker 04

  What a coincidence. But anyway, so, uh, we've continually seen anomalies and large energetic anomalies in this location. And so we put a terrestrial laser scanner, LiDAR system there to map out and see if we can see anything in there. And what came back and has been repeated 20, 30 different times now with multiple instruments. That there is some sort of bubble, uh, that's 2,000 feet in radius that is, uh, expanded over the property. It shows up every time in these terrestrial laser scans. And we've used more than one instrument and more than one brand of instrument and it shows up. And we've measured now with the drones flying through this area where the bubble is.

• 2:16:28Speaker 04

  Uh, their five gigahertz communication signal is completely cut off while they're in a 120 foot thickness region where we estimate the bubble is, according to the LiDAR. Uh, so we were like, well, let's go up to the top of it, that 2,000 foot spot. That's what we were trying to get to. And, and when the, uh, also when the balloon had gone up and we got measurements, there was a big hit on electromagnetic energy at 3,200 feet. So we were like, well, maybe there's something at their 200 feet. And then there was another one at 5,000.

• 2:16:58AJ Gentile?

  Same frequency?

• 2:16:59Speaker 04

  Uh, well, with the balloon, it was broad, it was broad spectrum instrument. It was a bucket. Uh, so that was the drones that could, told us the five gigahertz thing because they, they have two comm frequencies that are encrypted. One's around five gigahertz, five point something gigahertz and one's at, uh, uh, like 2.45 or something, right? And, um, it's interesting.

• 2:17:18AJ Gentile?

  But it's strange that we've got interference at all these frequencies that we use.

• 2:17:22Speaker 04

  Yes, I know. That, it, it sounds, sounds sort of designed, doesn't it?

• 2:17:27AJ Gentile?

  It does.

• 2:17:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. So we were hoping to get the drones up to 5,000 feet because a lot of people think we're just doing a, a drone light show because these guys are like super light show guys. The sky elements, they, they did the Wolverine and Deadpool thing at, at Comic Con, you know?

• 2:17:41AJ Gentile?

  I think they're in Guinness.

• 2:17:42Speaker 04

  Yes, they're the most drones at one time. Yeah. Right. Well, uh, but what people don't understand to do those shows, they have the most precise. Uh, navigation systems on those drones in sequence than any other system on the planet, right?

• 2:17:56AJ Gentile?

  I don't know how they do it.

• 2:17:57Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's, it's fantastic.

• 2:17:58AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:59Speaker 04

  And, uh, and on, and there's something like, uh, 61 or something like that, instruments on each one of these little drones. They're measuring everything from magnetic fields to electric fields to, to, uh, inertia changes to, uh, gravitational. They're measuring everything. So they actually are exquisite scientific instruments.

• 2:18:19AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:18:20Speaker 04

  The lights is just a benefit.

• 2:18:21AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:18:21Speaker 04

  And you can see it visually and track them with cameras as well. So, uh, we designed an experiment. We were going to take, uh, a bunch of them, uh, like a hundred of them all the way up to 5,000 feet. And nobody had ever flown, uh, swarmed that high. They had to get special, uh, FCC and FAA, uh, uh, waivers to do it. And so they were doing the test flights first with just four of them. And they got four of them up to, uh, and it's really interesting because while this experiment was going on, I had COVID. And, and so I had to stay in my, in my Jeep, uh, with instruments and stay a long way away and just watch it from a distance and just kind of be a spotter, right?

• 2:19:01Speaker 04

  And I felt like crap, but, uh, so as the drones were going up, everything looked normal and they were chasing them with, uh, one of those drones they race with. They call them a FPV, first person viewer drone.

• 2:19:12AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:19:13Speaker 04

  And, uh, so it was going around like 50 mile an hour, zipping around them as it going up. And it gets to a point where something just literally pushed the FPV drone away. And the guy said, I've never seen anything like that. And we've got that captured on, you see it here and then suddenly boom, it's just like something reached out and grabbed it and just slung it. And I mean, it's like, you know, superhero kind of looking stuff, you know? And then the drones go a few more feet up and you see the lights start blinking. And then they do a quick jump to the southwest and then something just turned them off and they fell straight down. And they fell from 3,200, uh, I think it was 3217 or something like that, 3,200 feet, give or take. And, um.

• 2:19:54AJ Gentile?

  Did they fall all the way down, crashed?

• 2:19:56Speaker 04

  Crashed straight down. And I'm, I'm in the field, you know, uh, just outside the bubble of 2,000 feet away yelling, guys, take cover. They're falling right on top of you. What the hell's going on? Is everybody okay? Somebody say something. And I know they're ducking under cars and stuff. They don't have time to talk to me on radio. But, um, uh, and, and so they looked through the software and something.

• 2:20:17Speaker 04

  Encoded into the drones while they were flying, a subroutine that was a kill command.

• 2:20:24AJ Gentile?

  No way. So this wasn't like interference?

• 2:20:28Speaker 04

  No, something literally told them to turn themselves off. But, but here's the thing. They didn't tell them to turn them off. It was a kill command. It literally said, the subroutine was literally, the guys said, we've never seen it. We didn't code this. We don't know what it is. It's a kill command. I said, what do you mean kill command? He says, it means to kill itself. It's gonna crash itself into the ground. As fast as it can, from 3,000 feet. And, um, so they repeated with a new set of drones. And when they got to that, the exact same thing happened again.

• 2:20:59AJ Gentile?

  Subroutine.

• 2:21:00Speaker 04

  Yep. And so this is where they said, okay, uh, we're not doing this again tonight.

• 2:21:05AJ Gentile?

  This is expensive.

• 2:21:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, those drones are like, uh, uh, they told us, cause, uh, three years before, we had what we called Droneageddon. Um, and, uh, so they were gonna fly a thousand drones. 600 of them at the triangle and 400 in the east field. So one's inside the bubble, one's outside the bubble. We didn't know about the bubble yet. Uh, but we had an anomaly out there and anomaly in here and we wanted to see if they were connected. And so the idea was, we thought the anomalies were localized. We're gonna create a cylinder on each end. And surround the cylinder, uh, to surround the spot where the anomaly is with a cylinder of them. And then fire a rocket up through the middle. So if someone's gonna get out of the way, you'll see the drones move.

• 2:21:42AJ Gentile?

  That's a great idea.

• 2:21:43Speaker 04

  That was, that was our experiment plan. And we're doing that simultaneously on each end. Well, the drones, they practiced off property and they were accurate to within a microsecond. Okay. They bring them on property and, uh, they could only get of the 600 that was launched fine the day before or somewhere else. They only get 400 of them to go up. And when the 400 got up, they launched seven seconds later than they were supposed to, then ours went up. Ours got up and on my end, they created the cylinder and started going around the anomaly. And then on the other end, as theirs get up to, they got to about, uh, 30 something feet. And then they started going crazy and they jumped to 70 something feet and started falling out of the sky.

• 2:22:26Speaker 04

  But they weren't just falling, they were physically chasing people.

• 2:22:30AJ Gentile?

  What?

• 2:22:31Speaker 04

  One of the guys literally took his leather jacket off and was beating them, uh, off of, off of camera guys. And, um, and on my end, we hear, we hear over the radio, it's raining drones down here. Everybody get in your effing cars. Just get, get in your cars. And on my end, our cylinder formed. But when they got there and the cylinder was 300 feet tall. Now these drones are like a five pound brick. Okay. So their battery, they're like all battery, right? So you imagine dropping a five pound battery from 300 feet. If it hits you in the head, it, you know, you're not walking away from that.

• 2:23:01AJ Gentile?

  Nope.

• 2:23:02Speaker 04

  And so we're out there, the cylinder's up and, uh, there's, uh, the action camera guy, me and another guy dragging. We're there about to launch the rocket and suddenly we hear thud. And we turn and look and the camera guy puts his camera light down on the ground and there's one of the drones between us. And we look up and there's another one coming right. And we're like, holy crap. Everybody, we just scatter, you know? And, uh, we, we get up there and the drones are just, they start chasing us. The cylinder's following us. And they even had a fence. So we had a safety procedure. If something goes wrong, we were to run to the southwest. Cause the drones were geo-fenced off with the GPS. It could not go there. Well, they didn't care about that geo-fence. They kept chasing us and dropping drones at us like bombs.

• 2:23:40Speaker 04

  Uh, and, um, that, that continued for a good five, 10 minutes, something like that before all the drones finally got on the ground. And, uh, they lost, um, we added up, they lost something like a million dollars.

• 2:23:54AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:23:54Speaker 04

  In that experiment. And the company was like, I think they do, you know, one every day somewhere in the world. And they're making so much money. I think it was to them, they just kinda smiled and said, well, we learned something. And we're like, yeah, you learned you lost a million dollars with the drones. But, um,

• 2:24:10Speaker 04

  so they ruggedized them for the next year and so on. And they keep bringing them back better ones. But something still keeps affecting them. And this was, you know, three generations from Droneageddon. And these drones still, when they got to this spot at 4,000 feet, something managed to get inside them, change the code and force them to kill themselves.

• 2:24:27AJ Gentile?

  Could they do another iteration to prevent the code change?

• 2:24:30Speaker 04

  Well, I would say stay tuned on that.

• 2:24:33AJ Gentile?

  Something tells me it doesn't matter what they do.

• 2:24:36Speaker 04

  I, I, you know, it's so funny to me that there, of course, the skeptics and, and things in the toxic verse out there. Started saying, well, you guys could just program the drones to do all that. And I'm like, yeah, for a million dollars. Have you seen what a documentary series budget actually is? It's not that.

• 2:24:52AJ Gentile?

  No, it's not.

• 2:24:53Speaker 04

  Not for one episode. That's basically, that's, that's basically our entire engineering budget for a whole season.

• 2:24:59AJ Gentile?

  So it sounds like there's, there's something there that is sentient? That doesn't want, I mean?

• 2:25:05Speaker 04

  Well, so, uh, the Bigelow guys left us with a narrative. In fact, I think it was Colonel Alexander that actually made up the words. Or it could have been Kelleher, but I've heard Alexander say it, of a, uh, precognitive sentient intelligence.

• 2:25:20AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, that's his.

• 2:25:21Speaker 04

  Right? And, uh, that's what they said they think the ranch is.

• 2:25:27Speaker 04

  I don't know, but precognitive, that means it can, it knows what we're gonna do ahead of time?

• 2:25:31AJ Gentile?

  Well, I asked him, does that mean that the future is written and it can see it? Or does, can it detect your intent? And he's like, we don't know.

• 2:25:38Speaker 04

  We believe, and this is purely from belief with our personal experiences. Anytime we've done something on the fly, we've surprised whatever it is.

• 2:25:48AJ Gentile?

  That's interesting.

• 2:25:49Speaker 04

  Uh, because we found the blob, that first rocket night where we hit whatever it was over the triangle and we saw it in the cameras. We were supposed to do a different experiment. And something fell through at the last minute and we didn't have anything to do, but we had the crew and we're like, well, we gotta do something. And I said, well, let's just go to the, we got this high-speed camera guy. Let's just take it out to the triangle and shoot a bunch of rockets and just see if anything happens. And we did and something happened. And that was like, literally we thought of it in like 10 minutes, went and set up and started doing it. And, uh, and, and we've seemed to, you know, maybe sneak up on whatever it is, uh, when we do things like that. And so we believe, uh, when we add an intent to something we're about to do, that's when we get a response from the property.

• 2:26:35Speaker 04

  It either hides itself or it makes itself visible for us to, to notice. If it wants us to do something or don't want it. I know it sounds stupid, crazy, whatever. I remember laughing at the guys the first day I met them when they said the ranch will respond to me. They said it responds to different people in different ways. And I laughed and said, it's just a piece of property. It's dirt. How's it gonna respond?

• 2:26:54AJ Gentile?

  Every skeptic comes back with the same story. Like something's going on, man. I don't know what it is.

• 2:26:58Speaker 04

  I was as skeptical as they could be when I went out there, man. And I, I, I've been out there, this will be my eighth year and I still, I know there's some, I'm, I'm not, uh, people say, are you an experiencer or whatever? Say, no, I'm not an experiencer. I'm a knower. I know that whatever's there is something. I just don't know what the hell it is.

• 2:27:17AJ Gentile?

  Is it, is there other properties like this around the world?

• 2:27:19Speaker 04

  So I believe there are. We, uh, did a brief foray into some other places because we're planning some, maybe some future experiments. Uh, maybe in Dulce, New Mexico.

• 2:27:30AJ Gentile?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:27:30Speaker 04

  Out at Secret Mountain.

• 2:27:32AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:27:32Speaker 04

  Uh, out at, uh, uh, Mount Shasta.

• 2:27:35AJ Gentile?

  Yep. These are all the places.

• 2:27:37Speaker 04

  Mount Wilson, perhaps, you know, uh, there, there are some places. There's a place in upstate New York too. And I don't, I don't remember exactly what it's called, but we've had a lot of people reporting phenomena back to us from there. Uh, somewhere, it's wilderness, you know, in upstate New York.

• 2:27:51AJ Gentile?

  All the native tribes have stories about these places.

• 2:27:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, you know, upstate New, New York would have been like, what, the Mohicans probably?

• 2:27:57AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:27:58Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, uh, any of, any of that, but, uh, I, that's an interesting point you bring that up because the, the Aboriginal species of the, of the locale seem to somehow be more in tuned or connected to whatever is going on. The Navajo and the Ute really, really are connected. They, like, uh, the Navajo don't even like to talk about the place. You know, they'll, they'll even, they'll turn away and look away from it if they, they, you know, get close to it sometimes.

• 2:28:30AJ Gentile?

  Yeah. Mount Shasta, the tribes don't go above the tree line because that's, that's the dwelling of the sky people. You don't go there.

• 2:28:36Speaker 04

  So, you know, that's, what, how do you, what do you do with stories like that? You know? I, I had a, I was at work one day. This is before I retired, this is before I, uh, started just working from home as a consultant. I was working for a company called Radiance, right after I quit the government. And, um, I got a phone call. And this lady says, um, uh, this Dr. Taylor said, yeah. And she said, I'm the, the eldest female of such and such tribe. And I don't wanna say who it is, cause I don't wanna get anybody, you know, into trouble or whatever. I don't know if you'd get them in trouble, you know, they didn't give me permission to, to talk about them.

• 2:29:10AJ Gentile?

  Fair enough.

• 2:29:10Speaker 04

  So, uh, but she said, uh, uh, and we've been debating on talking to you for a couple of years now. And we finally took a vote and decided that we needed to reach out. I said, yeah, you and about a million other people, lady. And she said, no, I really am who I, who I say I am. So this is my name. Go on the internet and look me up and find a phone number to contact me and then you'll know. I said, yeah, that's fair enough. So she hung up. And, uh, I look up, uh, this tribe and I see the elders and there's this, this lady's name and a phone number for her. You know, for the tribal center or whatever. So I called there and said, hey, this may sound weird, but, uh, this lady said, so, Dr. Taylor said, yeah. She said, hang on. And they transferred me and then the lady picked up the phone. It was, it literally was her. And I said, oh, okay. So you got my attention now.

• 2:29:56AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:29:56Speaker 04

  Right? And she said, so they told us that they bring you inside the mesa all the time, but you refuse to remember it.

• 2:30:07AJ Gentile?

  Oh, it just gave me chills.

• 2:30:08Speaker 04

  And I said, what?

• 2:30:09AJ Gentile?

  What is she talking?

• 2:30:10Speaker 04

  And, and I said, who is they? She said, you know who they are. I said, no. I don't know. I don't have any idea what you're talking about, lady. And she said, they told us uh, that they are bringing you in to show you what's going on at the property at Skinwalker Ranch and, and that you refused to remember it. And I said, what? You said I can't remember it? She said, no, they said you refused to remember it. And we wanted you to know. We felt like you needed to know this. And I was like, oh, okay. Who are they? She said, the sky people.

• 2:30:43AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 2:30:43Speaker 04

  And, and, and so then I, I like, okay, thank you, ma'am. Thanks. I'll, I'll keep that in under advisement. What do you do with something like that? I don't know. Well, so this is all, this is linked to something that we just talked about. So, uh, I was, while I was working at this same place within days of this phone call, uh, Jay and I had hooked up with some people who had a private black ops kind of group that if we found something that was down somewhere, they were going to try to get to it before somebody else could. And, um, so they had, um, hired this remote viewer that she's supposed to be like,

• 2:31:23Speaker 04

  like the remote viewer presently. And you know, Paul Smith verified it. So I'm like, okay, Paul says she's real. She's real. And, um, uh, so, um, she called me and she said, uh, Dr. Taylor, are you, um, um, do you realize that, uh, they've taken you and you, and you don't know it? I said, no. I'm not getting into this abduction stuff again.

• 2:31:50AJ Gentile?

  This is after the call with the?

• 2:31:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:31:51AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:31:52Speaker 04

  And she said, and I said, what are you talking about? She said, oh, it was years ago. She said, I can see it. They're showing me now. I'm like, oh, you're talking to them now. And she said, yes. And you know, this is one of those things where remote viewing is real and I understand the physics, the science of that, that we've measured it. We know it's real from statistical variation and stuff, but.

• 2:32:09AJ Gentile?

  Well, after the story, I want you to explain how that works.

• 2:32:11Speaker 04

  But, okay, but, but, but when you take it this far.

• 2:32:16AJ Gentile?

  So you're saying it works, but, but you don't want any part of it?

• 2:32:19Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no, no, no. When you take it to the point where I'm, I'm physically telepathically talking to aliens right now. That, that's where I'm like, well, how do you prove that? And, and I can't, you know, this is, comes down to campfire stories. And, and that's one of the things I always try to avoid.

• 2:32:33AJ Gentile?

  Physicists don't like unfalsifiable.

• 2:32:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, it's, it's not proper falsifiable. So what do you do? So, um, she says, yeah, they, they said you were young. I'm going to guess 15, 16 is what I'm seeing in the images and you were in the desert. And they took you and, uh, you didn't remember it. I said, lady, I've never, I live in Alabama. Everything's green as far as I can see. And, um, and so I didn't think anything else further about it. And then we sent a team to, um, a place in Arizona called Secret Mountain. Um, and, and there's, uh, uh, some natives there kept saying that they had seen, um, UFOs flying into the mountain, pretty much like at Skinwalker Ranch.

• 2:33:15AJ Gentile?

  And Shasta.

• 2:33:15Speaker 04

  And, and, and, and they go there and, uh, and they, and I'm looking at what some of the footage that they're showing, some of the film or video, uh, and, and I'm saying, that looks familiar to me. Where, where, where is this? Where did you guys, where did you guys stay? And they say, we stayed in a little town. There's one little town there. It's called Holbrook, Arizona. And I went, Holbrook, Arizona. When I was 16.

• 2:33:37AJ Gentile?

  No way.

• 2:33:38Speaker 04

  My brother was in the air force and was stationed in Holbrook, Arizona. And I went and stayed two weeks uh, in Arizona with my brother and his, his apartment. He, he stayed at, if you want to call it that, it was like a little quadplex that four, four townhomes of one that were all air force guys living in, up on top of a big sand dune effectively. And the, and the base was two trailers and two radars and a chain link fence. And, and there was like, I think a high school and that was it. There may have been a 7-Eleven or something there. And, uh, and I stayed there for two weeks. And all I did was, uh, either go and play, when they did PT, they played softball every day. I would go play softball with them, hang out with my brother. Otherwise I'd sit and watch TV during the day or read books.

• 2:34:21Speaker 04

  And, and that's the only time I'd ever been to a desert before I went to, to Utah. But I was 16 when I went there.

• 2:34:29AJ Gentile?

  Just like she said.

• 2:34:30Speaker 04

  Just like the lady said. And when, the fact that those stories came to me at the, almost within a week of each other.

• 2:34:37AJ Gentile?

  They're, they're that close?

• 2:34:38Speaker 04

  Yes. And, and all, and all this, it was, it, it's one of those things that shakes you. You're like, I don't believe it, but at the same time I'm like,

• 2:34:47AJ Gentile?

  How could she guess that?

• 2:34:48Speaker 04

  Yeah. How would, how would she guess that? That's the thing. And, cause I hadn't thought about that. And I just wiped it out of my mind about even, I didn't even really thought about it much.

• 2:34:55AJ Gentile?

  And you don't remember anything happening?

• 2:34:57Speaker 04

  Of course, no, I don't know. I don't remember anything. I don't, being at the ranch now, weird crap happens all the time, but I, I have crazy, I had night terrors for the first three years I was there. Never slept at all.

• 2:35:07AJ Gentile?

  At the ranch?

• 2:35:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, at the ranch. Uh, it was, it was terrible. So I'd wake up screaming and it was, it was, it was, it was wild. Uh, but I think my brain got numb to it after three or four years. And I, I still have them occasionally when there, but mostly I've gotten to where I can kind of sleep there. So it's, it's, it's unusual. I think it has to do with the microwaves that we keep measuring. I think it's messing up my REM sleep. But, um.

• 2:35:31AJ Gentile?

  Well, you said that you hooked up EEGs to some folks and saw some weird activity in the brain, right?

• 2:35:35Speaker 04

  Yes, we've done that many times. Um, uh, and in fact, uh, we've seen, uh, what is typical fight or flight responses happening. That's obvious when you see it. But we've seen, um, other types of influences on the brainwaves that you would be like in a sensory deprivation tank instead, when you're not. And so I find that really interesting. And I wonder about that because we've had people as close as you and I, where somebody's pointing at something and saying it's right there. Don't you see it? And others are like, man, we're not seeing it. Or we've had somebody, I was literally sitting at a table about just a little bigger than this. There's about six or eight of us around the table and a guy sitting between me and one of the other guys just collapsed into seizures. And, uh, we took him to the emergency room and he had looked like he, they say it looked like he'd been exposed to microwaves.

• 2:36:21Speaker 04

  And he did, and he, his memory was basically wiped of about four hours of the day. And he had like his eye swelled up and was like bloodshot. We've had that happen to cows.

• 2:36:31AJ Gentile?

  What happened to your finger?

• 2:36:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, um, that, that happened right after, um, it's funny. I'd always, uh, told the guys the first few weeks I was out there that I thought they were all batshit crazy. And, um,

• 2:36:46AJ Gentile?

  Oops.

• 2:36:46Speaker 04

  We were, we were at Homestead too, and, um, we're looking around, we got a ground pen, we got a guy pushing one of those lawnmower looking ground penetrating radars around. And the one scientist is over there with him. And I'm over behind Homestead too. There's this, uh, cistern behind us. So basically a water tank that they used to make, you know, in, in the houses. And so, um, I'm like, well, there could be radon gas or something down in there. I want to check it. I'm going to pull this lid back and, and hold my, my gamma ray detector down there. And, um, so I, I pulled on the thing. It was pretty heavy and the camera guy was standing like right over me looking down as I was holding my gamma ray detector over the hole. And I was, uh, sitting in such a way, like one knee on the ground and one hand on one knee.

• 2:37:29Speaker 04

  And, um, suddenly my gamma ray detector goes off. Nobody, there's all, there's people around me, but, and as soon as my gamma ray detector went off, all the cameras and all the sound equipment and all the cell phones turned themselves off. Now, one Android phone was, uh, of all the crew was working. And the director of photography was sharp enough. He grabbed it, started filming with that and told everybody else to be working on the dang cameras.

• 2:37:57AJ Gentile?

  So, so they went down and wouldn't come back up?

• 2:37:59Speaker 04

  Would not come back up. Like something fried them. Like they burned out all the, all the batteries immediately went dead. And, um, um, so, uh, they're changing batteries, swapping out units, the little doohickeys that have the transmitters on there. They're changing all those things out. And, uh, and in frantic, you know, trying to get the cameras up and running. And while the director of photography is filming with the, uh, uh, the, the one Android that was working. And, um, and so I'm sitting here looking at my gamma ray detector and the dose, dose rate is pretty high. And I'm doing numbers in my head. And I'm, and I'm thinking, it's like, it's like that scene in Fat Boy, uh, Fat Man and Little Boy where, uh, John Cusack's character is calculating that he's about to die. That's what I'm doing in my head. I'm going, and one of the other physicists coming over says, he looks at it and says, that's a pretty big dose, man.

• 2:38:44AJ Gentile?

  That's a big dose.

• 2:38:45Speaker 04

  And I'm like, God, that's, that's, that's a bigger dose than, um, than, and it ain't going to kill me, but it ain't a good dose. So, so I, I need to, uh, then they got about this time. So.

• 2:38:55AJ Gentile?

  How about how many X-rays were the?

• 2:38:58Speaker 04

  Well, I'll get to that.

• 2:38:59AJ Gentile?

  Okay, okay.

• 2:39:00Speaker 04

  So we're sitting here on the, they're, they've got cameras on tailgate of the truck. They're, they're trying to figure them out and they get one working and camera guy's got one up finally. And, uh, so the director starts asking me questions. He said, what's going on? What was happening? I said, well, here's what we're going to do. I want you to get everybody here and get them back to the command center. I'm going to go, I'm going to take all my clothes off outside of my trailer and, uh, then I'm going to take a shower. And while I'm doing that, I want you to get someone and go to the beer store and come back with a case of beer. And they started laughing. And I said, no, I'm serious. I got to start urinating as soon as possible. This is standard, uh, a buddy of mine was a, was a sub dude. Actually his, his handle is sub dude. And, uh, he, he told, we've talked about, I, I've written a bunch of science fiction stories where people got exposed or whatever.

• 2:39:44Speaker 04

  And we've, I've walked through what the protocol is that the Navy uses on the subs.

• 2:39:48AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:39:48Speaker 04

  And that's the first thing they have them do is sit down and start drinking diuretics. Right? And I'm like, well, you know, they could go to the pharmacy and get a diuretic, but what fun is that?

• 2:39:56AJ Gentile?

  Right. Coors Light?

• 2:39:58Speaker 04

  Yeah. So I had to go get me a case of Coors Light. And I said, so I'm going to sit out and I'm going, I'm going, then I'm going to start drinking that because I've got to start, you know, peeing as soon as possible. And they said, well, what about iodine? So it was too late for that. I'd already been exposed.

• 2:40:10AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:40:10Speaker 04

  I needed that beforehand. And, um, so and they're like, you're being, you're being serious now. I said, yes, I'm being serious. Uh, and so we go back and the guy, one of the other physicists that was there that year, he also had a medical physics degree and he ran, uh, chemotherapy and, and radiation therapy treatments at a hospital. And he and I were sitting there doing numbers and I've got my doctor, my, my general practitioner on my phone, I'm texting him and he's texting an oncologist and we're all doing math in our, over the phone in our heads and everything. And he says, dude, you just had your lifetime of CAT scans in about 30 seconds. And, uh, and, and it wasn't, and my, and what's really weird is everybody around me, none of them, there, no, no dose rate, no gamma ray detectors went off, just mine.

• 2:40:55Speaker 04

  And they were as close, one of the guys was as close as me and you are now.

• 2:40:59AJ Gentile?

  Was it from the hole?

• 2:41:00Speaker 04

  Don't know where, don't know where it came from, but, but going back to that, we had a, a Navy team come in the next day, a contractor come in the next day and checking. There was nothing anywhere. And, um, so.

• 2:41:13Speaker 04

  After overnight, I drink all the beer. I get up next morning and when I urinate, it's the color of this laptop right here. It's like, it's like, it's like black coffee.

• 2:41:21AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 2:41:22Speaker 04

  And I text my, uh, my GP again and he says, uh, that's probably dead cells that you're, that you're passing.

• 2:41:30AJ Gentile?

  You didn't tell your wife any of this?

• 2:41:31Speaker 04

  Uh, no, no. Uh, and then, uh, so then I started getting flu-like symptoms.

• 2:41:37AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 2:41:38Speaker 04

  Which is all classic symptoms, right?

• 2:41:39AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:41:40Speaker 04

  And that lasted for a good thirty-six hours. And I was like, well, I'm gonna go home, spend the weekend at home and try to recuperate and see how I feel. And, um, I get to Salt Lake City Airport, and I'm sitting there and I order a beer and some chicken wings at, um, at whatever restaurant it was. And the waiter looks at me and says, "Did you get in a fight?" Or, and I said, "What are you talking about?" And he said, "Well, what's, what's that on your head?" And I'm like, "What's on my head?" And, and, and I noted, and I got to think about it, I'd been scratching my knee and the top of my foot was burning. And then I looked at my hand and there was a burn mark on my hand right here. And so I get my phone, I turn around and look and I had a big burn mark right here. And so the way I was sitting,

• 2:42:22Speaker 04

  looking over, that you could draw a straight line through my head, through my hand, through my knee and through my foot.

• 2:42:28AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 2:42:28Speaker 04

  To where those burn marks were. And, uh, and when I drew the line upwards, it would've gone right through the camera guy that was looking over my shoulder.

• 2:42:35AJ Gentile?

  This is like a death ray.

• 2:42:36Speaker 04

  Uh, that don't exist.

• 2:42:38AJ Gentile?

  That does not exist.

• 2:42:41Speaker 04

  So, um, I, uh, I, I, I got better, you know, I got, everything was fine and I had, uh, various tests done to make sure there's not any, like, leukemia markers or anything, you know?

• 2:42:52AJ Gentile?

  Was it radiation burn?

• 2:42:53Speaker 04

  Uh, well, according to two different doctors, it wa- it appeared to be effects of radiation exposure. Uh, one other doctor said he didn't know what the hell it was. Uh, and then, when, uh, my finger started hurting, uh, it grew, started expanding like this, growing outward. And I'm like, "What in the crap is that? I'm too old for arthritis, I mean, too young for arthritis and I don't know what's going on." And, uh, uh, so I called Kit Green and, um, he said, "Yep, that sounds like classical radiation exposure. Here's what I want you to do." He hooked me up with an orthopedist, a surgeon. They went in, x-rayed it and everything, and they set me up for surgery. And so they opened that up and, and,

• 2:43:37Speaker 04

  and, and there was, there were two osteophites. They're like, basically bone growths growing out. And from the x-ray, I could calculate their sizes and they were the exact right size to be microwave, uh, antennas. Is that not crazy?

• 2:43:50AJ Gentile?

  It's crazy.

• 2:43:51Speaker 04

  That is crazy. Well, they shaved them off and then sewed me back up and they sent out the pieces off for analysis. There was no trace of any pathogen, uh, at all. No pathogen. And, uh, so Kit said, "That's typical of radiation exposure." So that, that, that's not a virus or arthritis or anything else that could cause that. No bacterial infection. If it's, and it comes back pathogen clear, then it's most likely that it was radiation exposure. And so that was that fun adventure. Um, and, and what it was, who knows? I, I, I don't know. But, but so when I came out of, uh, the, going back to when I walked back out of the, the, from behind there and was sitting on that tailgate, my friend Dragon

• 2:44:36Speaker 04

  and the other guys come down and they look at me and say, "What's going on, dude?" And I looked at him and said, "Well, I guess I'm finally batshit crazy." And that's when I really, that day, I really started understanding that this was not made up stuff. It was something to this property.

• 2:44:50AJ Gentile?

  And, but you keep going back?

• 2:44:53Speaker 04

  Well, so there's a reason I keep going back. Uh, I hope to someday dig out of the ranch a Green Lantern ring.

• 2:45:03Speaker 04

  But seriously, what if, uh, there's something there? What if, you know, I firmly believe that fortune favors the bold and, and, and the fortune might be to learn something that we don't know. And, uh, I've already learned a lot of things, made myself get so much better at physics and engineering just from being out there.

• 2:45:21AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:45:21Speaker 04

  Uh, but, um, what if we pull something out of the mesa that is, you know, not of this world or, or maybe it's an ancient artifact from an ancient civilization or who knows what. But what if there's something there? What if it's even some new, uh, Mother Nature phenomena that we, that we've never seen before? Either way, it would be worth it. It's, it's worth uncovering whatever that is.

• 2:45:45AJ Gentile?

  I'm glad you were out there. I wouldn't go. So, you and Jay are in a band called Hitchhiker.

• 2:45:49Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Hitchhiker Effect.

• 2:45:51AJ Gentile?

  Have you experienced Hitchhiker Effect?

• 2:45:53Speaker 04

  Yes, I have. Uh, and I have, have documentation of it. Now, Jay, Jay's experienced it a lot, but his is a lot worse than mine, but, um...

• 2:46:01AJ Gentile?

  What happened?

• 2:46:03Speaker 04

  I'll let him talk about that.

• 2:46:04AJ Gentile?

  Not me, to you.

• 2:46:05Speaker 04

  For me. So, the really weird thing, and it's pretty, uh, grow, it's funny, I had some debunkers try to, uh, I don't know, this is part of, I think, why they think I believe in paranormal, but I'm not saying that nothing, anything's paranormal. So, uh, we have, uh, laying hens, chickens, at my house. I've got, you know, seventeen acres in Alabama. It's a, in the middle of wilderness. It's, it's, you know, green Alabama, the beautiful, right? And, uh, so, uh, at the time, I had a, um, a coop that I had rigged an automatic door with a computer to run it, and it had a sensor on it, that thirty minutes, uh, after sunup, uh, it would open and, uh, thirty minutes after sundown, it would close to keep, you

• 2:46:49Speaker 04

  know, raccoons and foxes out of the, out of the hen house. And, uh, it ran on basically like a little Arduino board. I'm sure there's people, makers out there know exactly what I'm talking about.

• 2:46:59AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:46:59Speaker 04

  And it had an actuator, uh, that would just open and close the little, just a little metal aluminum plate door. And it had an electrical eye that went across the door, so if there was a chicken standing in it, it would shut it off. Right? And the door actually went like, blzzzz.

• 2:47:15AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:47:15Speaker 04

  It literally takes a minute for the thing to close.

• 2:47:17AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:47:18Speaker 04

  Right? So, there's no way something's gonna stand there and, and you'll get caught in it. So, I'm at work and my wife calls me and says, um, uh, "Hey, there's a hen that's caught in the door. Uh, could you come home?" And she, she didn't wanna deal with it, you know?

• 2:47:33AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:47:34Speaker 04

  So I, I went home and it, they basically had guillotined this poor chicken. And I'm like, "Why in the hell could that happen?"

• 2:47:42AJ Gentile?

  Chicken was dead.

• 2:47:42Speaker 04

  It was, it was cut in half.

• 2:47:44AJ Gentile?

  Cut in half.

• 2:47:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I, uh, it's, it's so weird of a nitpick. I said, I said something like this at a, at a con, it was cut in half. One of the idiot, you know, Twitterverse people, you know? So, "Well, he's lying about that because it didn't, uh, you can look at, clearly look at the picture and its head's still there." Well, the guillotine is clo- the door's closed and the head's hanging on this side and the other part of the body's on the other side. I mean, that's how toxic the, the people are out there about this stuff, right?

• 2:48:10AJ Gentile?

  People are warriors. We don't...

• 2:48:11Speaker 04

  I know, right?

• 2:48:12AJ Gentile?

  We don't think about it.

• 2:48:12Speaker 04

  Keyboard warrior, exactly. Right? They got Cheeto stains on their fingers and, so, anyway, um...

• 2:48:17AJ Gentile?

  But did that motor have enough torque to do that?

• 2:48:20Speaker 04

  Uh, it had enough torque. Well, it could, it could've, but the chicken would have to stay there.

• 2:48:25AJ Gentile?

  Right. It's not gonna stay there.

• 2:48:29Speaker 04

  So, um, so I get the board and I look at it, uh, and it's, it's got all the data recorded and it happened at, uh, exactly, um, it was, it was two, it was one thirty-three Alabama time, right? If I remember the timer. I could've, it could, could be remembering, but it was around that, right? And, um, um, and so I look at what happened and it looked like, uh, something overloaded the battery. It got like, supercharged. And, uh, then the, the eye was triggered for safety and it didn't shut off the thing and it burned out the main computer drive. And so it's like something EMP'd the chicken house. And,

• 2:49:14Speaker 04

  and, and convinced the chicken at one, uh, thirty-three in the morning.

• 2:49:20AJ Gentile?

  Would it supposed to be closed?

• 2:49:21Speaker 04

  Well, would it supposed to be closed, right? So it opened it, then closed it, right?

• 2:49:24AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:49:25Speaker 04

  But, again, if you ever, if you've ever had chickens, once they get on a roost, they don't move. There could be a snake killing them.

• 2:49:32AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:49:33Speaker 04

  They're gonna sit there until the sun comes up.

• 2:49:34AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:49:35Speaker 04

  So something made this chicken get up in the middle of the night and go, let the door open, go stand in the doorway, and then let the doorway kill it.

• 2:49:42AJ Gentile?

  Don't eat that chicken.

• 2:49:43Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, I, well, yeah, I didn't. But, uh, so, I'm like, I, so I called the, uh, Eric Bard, the principal investigator at the ranch, and I said, "Eric, did anything happen last night at the ranch?" He said, "I don't know, man. I was, I was off with a, on a date with my wife and, and I was driving back from, uh, Vernal, which is like forty-minute, thirty-minute drive or something to the ranch. Uh, I was driving back and that, that damn Jeep that we have out there, it just, it just, everything on the dashboard lit up and every instrument in it blew up. And I was stranded on the side of the road."

• 2:50:16AJ Gentile?

  What time?

• 2:50:16Speaker 04

  And that's, that's exactly what our next question was. And he said, and he said, "It was, uh, twelve-thirty something."

• 2:50:23AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 2:50:23Speaker 04

  And, and they're on mountain time, which is exactly the same time. So there were simultaneous events that happened that fry electromagnetic EMP type effect that fried his Jeep and fried my chicken coop. And I noticed that, uh, the wifi in the house had also reset itself at that time.

• 2:50:42AJ Gentile?

  It did?

• 2:50:42Speaker 04

  Yeah. Uh, when I went back and looked through the logs. So, there was an EMP type effect.

• 2:50:48AJ Gentile?

  That's two and five megahertz.

• 2:50:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's right. And, and so, and powerful enough that it, that it blew out my Arduino board, right? And, and caused, and messed with a chicken. I don't know. What did it do to the chicken? I don't understand that one at all. So, that is one of the strangest, weirdest things that happened. I can't explain it. Uh, I'd had chickens for, before that and after that, never, never seen anything like that. Uh, I've had other events, very similar, uh, like that, that things just keep blowing up, uh, uh, like that, like they're being fried or whatever. So I've safeguarded everything, I, I hope, not on wood. Now that I've said it, it'll probably happen soon as I get home, it'll happen. Um, but that kinda stuff happens a lot.

• 2:51:30AJ Gentile?

  Do you think that it doesn't want you there or is it just mischief?

• 2:51:34Speaker 04

  You know, the, um, the previous owners of the property, the farmers that lived there, said they believe it was some kind of trickster.

• 2:51:41AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:42Speaker 04

  Right? Um, to what end? Yeah. You know, but I've always said that we may never understand alien motivations, because it's just that, alien.

• 2:51:53AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:51:54Speaker 04

  And, uh, we may never, we might be invaded and never know why. Right? And, uh, whatever's going on here could have some motivation that doesn't make any sense to us.

• 2:52:03AJ Gentile?

  That's true.

• 2:52:03Speaker 04

  It could be AI motivation. We may never understand what AI's motivation is, right? Uh, heck, I, uh, I've got a teenager. I don't know what his motivations are, right? So it's, it's one of those things that, um, but why? Right? And that's one of the reasons that I keep going back is, uh, I do fear that could I be bringing it back with me? Uh, a lot of people have had some detrimental things that have been there and they'll never get anywhere near the place again.

• 2:52:30AJ Gentile?

  Well, Colonel Alexander said his wife was not pleased.

• 2:52:34Speaker 04

  Yeah. There, we, well, we had one guy, like I said, that he, he told us flat out. Uh, and he was actually one of the Nimitz group guys that we had to visit us.

• 2:52:43AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:52:43Speaker 04

  And, uh, he came out and he was affected so much that, uh, he told us he would never, ever come back again.

• 2:52:50AJ Gentile?

  Did he say what happened to him?

• 2:52:51Speaker 04

  We watched it. We, we got it on, he started having seizures on the ground.

• 2:52:54AJ Gentile?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:52:55Speaker 04

  We, we went and put him in a Faraday cage and it helped a little bit, but we eventually evacuated him and sent him to emergency room.

• 2:53:01AJ Gentile?

  It's not funny.

• 2:53:03Speaker 04

  No, it's not. It's just, well, it's, it's, it's not funny, ha, ha. It's funny, right? Yes. It's, it's unbelievable. It is what it is. That's why I tell you, uh, that's why I think people, I can understand people think we're making it up because it's bizarre.

• 2:53:17AJ Gentile?

  I haven't watched the show because I thought y'all were making it up.

• 2:53:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, uh, we're not. There's not a single thing that we're making. Everything is as we're seeing it. Now, like I said, we may get some things wrong and we always come back and say, oh, well, we thought this was something, but it was just a bug or it was a, you know, snow, snow goose or whatever. But, uh, uh, we, we always are honest about those things. And, and that's the, the thing that I want, you know, to make clear is if we find something, this is disclosure, man. Unless somebody comes and shuts us down in a way that we can't get it out, it's getting out.

• 2:53:49AJ Gentile?

  How far back does the weird stuff go?

• 2:53:51Speaker 04

  Well, the one, uh, so every owner that's been there has said something about it, you know, there, and like I said, there's a petroglyph on the property that's a thousand years old.

• 2:54:00AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:01Speaker 04

  That's a warning that evil is beyond this thing. And they even show a portal in the sky.

• 2:54:06AJ Gentile?

  They do?

• 2:54:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:54:07AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no. That's where your balloon went.

• 2:54:10Speaker 04

  Uh, maybe. That's, well, exactly where they draw it. So there's a drawing of the mesa and then there's the star patterns and exactly where this little spot is, is right where the balloon disappeared. Uh, that's, that's interesting that you bring that up. That's, that's a good, a good analysis.

• 2:54:24AJ Gentile?

  Where did the, uh, the remote viewer, did she give you any more details when you were 16? Where you went, what you saw, what happened?

• 2:54:30Speaker 04

  Uh, she said that they, uh, just, just took me and tried to show me something, but I didn't, I, I, I wouldn't remember it.

• 2:54:38AJ Gentile?

  And you still won't?

• 2:54:39Speaker 04

  And I still won't apparently because I don't.

• 2:54:40AJ Gentile?

  What, do you believe her?

• 2:54:42Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:54:43AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:54:43Speaker 04

  I, I, I, I don't know what to think about. But why would, why would, why is whatever it is that she can do, trigger her, her brain to, to see something fantastic or, you know, that like that's that, like that, right? Um, I mean, I, I would understand if, if it was just someone that was trying to get like publicity, like a spoon bending, a huckster or something.

• 2:55:11AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:55:11Speaker 04

  Um, and I don't mean all spoon benders or hucksters. I just mean like some, uh, uh, uh, you know, a, a rain, uh, a rain con man, you know, a rainmaker, uh,

• 2:55:20AJ Gentile?

  A stubble bine.

• 2:55:21Speaker 04

  Snake, snake oil salesman, right? Uh, but she's not that because she's not getting paid for that. She, she finds like, um, kidnapped children and things like that and works with police.

• 2:55:31AJ Gentile?

  She's also seeing through time.

• 2:55:33Speaker 04

  Well, yeah. And that's, she's, she's seeing that, that she's saying that they were showing her this. And, uh, and that, and that they were telling her where to go to get, to send the team to get a UFO and all these kinds of things. Uh, we thought we had one at one point, but they kept giving us, oh, well, the rebels there won't let us in the property or they, they need a million dollars before they'll do that or whatever. And we're like, yeah, that sounds right. Uh, they sent us video and it looked like, uh, they'd built some kind of prop, you know, and, uh, it was one of those things. So we've, I've never had anything like that pan out, right? Uh, but now the remote viewing part.

• 2:56:12AJ Gentile?

  Yeah. You said you could explain the mechanism.

• 2:56:14Speaker 04

  Well, I have a hypothesis. The, uh, think about it like, uh,

• 2:56:21Speaker 04

  for those who aren't familiar with remote viewing, it's been used officially since the seventies in the Stargate program. Hal Putoff, Russell Targ and those guys did a detailed scientific evaluation of it and showed that it was statistically better than guessing.

• 2:56:38AJ Gentile?

  Pat Price was a miracle.

• 2:56:39Speaker 04

  Pat Price was apparently the, him and, uh, uh, Joe McMonigal.

• 2:56:44AJ Gentile?

  And Ingo Swan.

• 2:56:45Speaker 04

  And Ingo Swan were the, they were the best, right? And, and McMonigal still says stuff to Jay. Jay talks to him, you know? Um, but, but how, how would something like that work? Well, if you look at how they do it. So we had Paul Smith, we've had remote viewers come out to the property and do, and they've told us some fantastic, amazing things and we've discovered, we found exactly what they said, right where they said it was going to be or whatever.

• 2:57:09AJ Gentile?

  Like what?

• 2:57:09Speaker 04

  Uh, well, so let me give you one example since I can't spoil it.

• 2:57:15AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:57:15Speaker 04

  Um, uh, and, but the thing about, I was about to say though, is that the network doesn't believe that the public believes it. So they won't let us, they don't want us to air it.

• 2:57:23AJ Gentile?

  Why?

• 2:57:24Speaker 04

  They don't believe in remote viewing. The network for some reason doesn't, doesn't like remote viewing, I don't think. Um,

• 2:57:29AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:57:29Speaker 04

  Which, but to me it's,

• 2:57:31AJ Gentile?

  CIA didn't mind it.

• 2:57:31Speaker 04

  That's what I thought. That's why I keep telling them. They said, well, and, and they, they also don't, I don't think they, I don't think they grasp it or get it or something, you know, and I've, I've tried to explain it, but it is a hard concept for a lot of people to accept because it seems like magic.

• 2:57:43AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:57:44Speaker 04

  Well, the way it works, so we thought we were going to trip Paul Smith up. Uh, uh, we took the date that I was exposed to radiation and wrote it down and put it in an envelope, put a serial number on that envelope, put the envelope in a drawer and then told Paul the serial number. Then he took that serial number and gave it through a friend without telling him where it came from to two of his students that he said were his prized students. Different, different states, you know, one, I think was New York and one was out Midwest somewhere. And they, they both came back with drawings and Paul did a drawing himself. And in, and the drawing that they drew, uh, was a Feynman diagram

• 2:58:28Speaker 04

  for pair production of an electron positron collision.

• 2:58:33AJ Gentile?

  What?

• 2:58:34Speaker 04

  I kid you not. All right. So you say, well, what, what does that mean? Well, so after I was exposed to radiation, we had this Navy contractor team come out and they put a radiation spectrum analyzer in that exact spot where I was exposed to radiation. They found the spectrum of the radiation I was exposed to. And there was a peak, uh, that occurred over a week. The most number of hits they got was at 511 KEV. 511 KEV is the, uh, gamma ray that's created when an electron, anti-electron or positron collide with each other and they create, uh, 511 KEV gamma rays.

• 2:59:12AJ Gentile?

  That's what they found. That's the annihilation.

• 2:59:14Speaker 04

  That's the annihilation.

• 2:59:15AJ Gentile?

  They found that?

• 2:59:16Speaker 04

  That's, that's what they found there behind, uh, that, why? Where did they, where did they, where did the positron and electron come from?

• 2:59:22AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:59:23Speaker 04

  And where did, why have we got a pair, uh, pair annihilation, uh, gamma rays? You know, so what I'm talking about here is, you know how in Star Trek, they used a matter, antimatter chamber to create the warp, uh, energy? Well, we got a matter, antimatter collision happening on the property at Skinwalker Ranch for no dang reason. Well, but these remote viewers drew the date that we told them and the, and the GPS coordinates. And all they saw was a serial number. They didn't know anything where it came from. They didn't know anybody, but they drew the Feynman diagram for electron positron collision and the gamma rays.

• 2:59:58AJ Gentile?

  There's no way they knew about antimatter. There's no way.

• 3:00:01Speaker 04

  No way. No. Well, one of them, I asked him, one of them was an art major or something. And one of them, one of them was like a, a data processor or something. But they were taking, you know, remote viewing school from Paul.

• 3:00:11AJ Gentile?

  When you saw that diagram, did you know what it was?

• 3:00:14Speaker 04

  Soon as I saw it, I said, I looked at it and said, that's a Feynman diagram. And then the other physicist looked at it and said, he turned it around and said, you're right. That is a Feynman diagram. And we're like, what the hell? And that, when I saw that, I was like, I, you're not, you're not going to convince me anymore that remote viewing is, is, is made up, is magic or whatever. It's, it's, it's a real phenomenon. Now, what is it and how's it work? Well, what did he do? He took, we took, um, a piece of data and we gave it an address.

• 3:00:50Speaker 04

  And it stored away on the memory stack somewhere.

• 3:00:54AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:00:55Speaker 04

  And then we gave the memory stack location to these people. And all they did was they know how to look at the memory stack and read what's stored there.

• 3:01:04AJ Gentile?

  That's a great way to describe it.

• 3:01:07Speaker 04

  And that is another piece of simulation hypothesis or some sort of mechanism that the universe is created through software or a matrix-like environment that would suggest that these people have understood, they now understand how to read certain locations in the memory stack.

• 3:01:28AJ Gentile?

  I hadn't considered that, but that makes a lot of sense. They can see the code.

• 3:01:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:01:33AJ Gentile?

  They can access the memory.

• 3:01:35Speaker 04

  And you know where, and also that also explains quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement is nothing more than the inventory. So think about Minecraft Steve, right? He mines a diamond over here at position X, Y, Z, and T, time one. He picks the diamond up, he plops it into his inventory. It's up there in some location and that you can pick up the inventory, it's in this block right here.

• 3:01:59AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:02:00Speaker 04

  Then he walks around the world map and goes to some other position and time. And he reaches up into his inventory and magically plops it down, and there it is. Where did that, where was it all that time? You say, what was in his inventory? What is his inventory? It's the memory.

• 3:02:15AJ Gentile?

  It's the memory.

• 3:02:15Speaker 04

  And what I just explained to you is how quantum teleportation works. Quantum teleportation, if you draw a diagram for how Minecraft Steve moves items with his inventory, it looks exactly like quantum teleportation moving information from point A to point B.

• 3:02:33AJ Gentile?

  Doesn't it move it instantly?

• 3:02:34Speaker 04

  It moves it non-locally.

• 3:02:36AJ Gentile?

  Non-locally.

• 3:02:36Speaker 04

  You still have to send a classical signal to tell them how to make the measurements and things. And where is the non, that's the big thing is nobody understands where the non-local place is.

• 3:02:46AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 3:02:47Speaker 04

  It's the memory stack.

• 3:02:48AJ Gentile?

  Right. It's everywhere.

• 3:02:49Speaker 04

  It's everywhere. It's the Akashic Record.

• 3:02:51AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 3:02:53Speaker 04

  Where is that stored?

• 3:02:54AJ Gentile?

  It's everywhere.

• 3:02:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:02:55AJ Gentile?

  It's like the morphic field, morphic resonance.

• 3:02:57Speaker 04

  Right. So whatever the holographic universe that we are living in, that information, the information universe, whatever it is, that information is stored everywhere, somewhere, somehow. And so these people that have, they didn't find a back door, they just understood how to read what's there.

• 3:03:19AJ Gentile?

  Doesn't that make the secret work as well?

• 3:03:20Speaker 04

  Absolutely. I think it's all the same thing. I think they're all manifestations of the same concept.

• 3:03:25AJ Gentile?

  Monroe Institute.

• 3:03:26Speaker 04

  Yep. All of it.

• 3:03:27AJ Gentile?

  All of it. Makes sense to me, too.

• 3:03:32AJ Gentile?

  Um, let's talk about Jay Stratten for a second. He's got a book coming out.

• 3:03:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:03:36AJ Gentile?

  And he recently said that about disclosure, like it's already happened, but there's a lot more coming. Do you know what he means?

• 3:03:42Speaker 04

  Well, Jay and I talk all the time. I mean, we're in a band together.

• 3:03:47AJ Gentile?

  Is he a good guitar player?

• 3:03:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's a good guitar player. Jay's pretty, Jay is awesome, man. He's an amazing person.

• 3:03:53AJ Gentile?

  And you sing?

• 3:03:53Speaker 04

  Yeah. I play, I play on some of the songs, I write some of the songs, but I'm the lead vocalist.

• 3:04:01AJ Gentile?

  Alright, so that's Hitchhiker on Spotify this week, right?

• 3:04:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, man. Spotify, it's Hitchhiker Effect.

• 3:04:06AJ Gentile?

  Hitchhiker Effect, okay.

• 3:04:07Speaker 04

  Um, so, um,

• 3:04:11Speaker 04

  yeah, Jay was, so for people who don't know who Jay Stratten is, Jay Stratten was the director of the UAP Task Force, but before that, uh, he and Jim Lekatsky, Dr. Lekatsky, were the two people working for DIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, at the time. Uh, and they had noticed a bunch of people reporting weird things, pilots and so on. And they thought, well, somebody should be looking into this. And no, I don't think anybody is. And so they started investigating. And they came up with the idea to create the, uh, create OSAP, which is like Advanced Weapons Something Systems Program. I don't know what all it stands for.

• 3:04:55Speaker 04

  Um, and that was actually a contract. It was a proposal. And they let out a call for proposals that any contractors could bid on, that had, that could get security clearances uh, to bid on, to investigate what they were calling range foulers at the time. A range fowler would be, they had a test range, they were flying, doing experience, like Top Gun kind of stuff.

• 3:05:17AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:05:18Speaker 04

  And pilots would see something that shouldn't be there, so it's not safe. So they needed to find out what they were. Was it enemy drones? You know, what was it? And Bigelow Aerospace was the only company that bid on the proposal. Now, let me, if you've been in, if you've been in the defense intelligence industry at all, you know that any opportunity that someone in the government releases to give you money, there are 30 companies that go after it.

• 3:05:46AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:05:47Speaker 04

  So why did nobody respond to this, except for Bigelow Aerospace?

• 3:05:51AJ Gentile?

  And that was endorsed by Harry Reid at the time.

• 3:05:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Harry, and so what happened? Um, Lekatsky and Jay went to, um, Harry Reid and Anoye, and there was one other senator that was, he was a Republican. I can't remember his name, but there were three of them. They were, so somehow they briefed them, and they were like, well, we could put in a plus up on the next bill to get you some seed money to get started on this, and then you guys can go through the standard channels to start a program. Right? And that's, there's nothing odd about that. I'm telling you, that's how everything works in government programs.

• 3:06:29AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:06:29Speaker 04

  Every time. Every, I mean, it's unusual if it happens a different way. And, uh, so they are set, they're getting going and, um, Bigelow had an interest already in, um, Skinwalker Ranch. He'd already bought the place and had been funding the NIDS guys, uh, was it National Institute for Discovery Science or something like that? To go out, that was Eric Davis and Hal Putoff, to go out there and Kelleher.

• 3:06:55AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:06:56Speaker 04

  To investigate for whatever the weird stuff was. And I think Bigelow was more interested in the, what you would call paranormal things, supernatural or whatever. I think because there was, uh, there was a death or something in his family that he was really affected by. And he was wanting maybe to try to do, uh, reach out to the afterlife or something.

• 3:07:15AJ Gentile?

  He's into a lot of near-death experience and after-death experience.

• 3:07:19Speaker 04

  Yeah. So I think that was what was driving him more.

• 3:07:21AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:07:22Speaker 04

  But something had happened uh, on Skinwalker Ranch that led Bigelow to tell Lekatsky and Jay Stratten that if you want to see a nuts and bolts spacecraft, UFO, you need to go to Skinwalker Ranch. And Jay tells that story like, I mean, almost word for word like that, that Bigelow told them, if you want to see a UFO, you gotta go to Skinwalker Ranch. And so Jay said, okay. So him and Lekatsky, you know, packed up and went to Skinwalker Ranch. And it was, Jay said it was like the first week he was there, he saw what he calls a dart. A triangular shaped craft that flew over the property, I think.

• 3:08:02Speaker 04

  Uh, but, but, but worse, they had an event happen in what we now call Jay's Tree, uh, which is, it turns out, is right, I mean, we put, we put post out to mark where the terrestrial laser scanner said this bubble phenomenon is. And Jay's Tree is right by where we put post number five. And so, uh, they were walking, and as they got closer and closer to this tree, all of them were overcome with fear and couldn't walk any further and turned around and left. And it's right at that, I mean, it's literally right where the terrestrial laser scanner tells us the edge of this bubble is.

• 3:08:39AJ Gentile?

  Is it a hard edge or is it kind of fade off?

• 3:08:41Speaker 04

  Well, so what the drones told us this year in an experiment was that it's potentially at least a five gigahertz, 120 foot thick.

• 3:08:49AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 3:08:50Speaker 04

  Uh, I know, right? And you can hear it on AM, if you tune your car to a station, because it cuts right across the driveway as you come in. Uh, you can hear it as you drive the car through, the radio crackle.

• 3:09:03AJ Gentile?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 3:09:03Speaker 04

  And it could be placebo effect, but I, uh, the distance from my trailer to the gate is, and back is a one-mile run. And I'll often do a one-mile run in the morning or whatever, and I run right through the bubble out and in back. And, um, and I swear I feel sinus pressure every time when I go through there. But it could be purely placebo, right? I'm too front-loaded to, to believe myself on that one, or to trust that measurement. Uh, so anyway, Jay and, um, Lekatsky, uh, continued with the OSAP program until such time as, uh, someone in the Pentagon uh, thought they were looking for ooga booga stuff at Skinwalker Ranch and went and had the program funds killed.

• 3:09:48Speaker 04

  Didn't have the program killed, they just pulled the funds, which kills a program.

• 3:09:51AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:09:51Speaker 04

  That's how you do it. Uh, and even though Harry Reid, and Harry Reid couldn't fight it apparently, you know, uh, uh, but and that's why I'm convinced if Bigelow had more, I wouldn't give it to the government either, because they paid him half of what they told him they was gonna pay him. I'd been giving the government the finger, basically, right? Um, so, but I don't believe that he's got something squirrel, he's got a UFO squirrel away. And when he talked, when we've talked to him, he said, no, I never, we never dug up a UFO, we never saw anything like that, you know?

• 3:10:19AJ Gentile?

  I don't think he does.

• 3:10:20Speaker 04

  No, I'm convinced he, I'm convinced that he doesn't, and I believe that he and Jay have such a rapport that he would have told Jay that if he did. And, uh, now they did have a lot of sightings. And, uh, we do have, uh, he did give us that data of like dates and times and and descriptions of the experiences and so on.

• 3:10:40AJ Gentile?

  And nuts and bolts sightings?

• 3:10:42Speaker 04

  Uh, well, they were things in the sky, you know, nothing landed and came out and said, take me to your leader.

• 3:10:46AJ Gentile?

  But not an orb?

• 3:10:47Speaker 04

  I think they were mostly like orb-like.

• 3:10:49AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:10:51AJ Gentile?

  It's interesting that you said Anoye because remember his famous speech about there's a cabal with its own air force, its own military that answers to no law? Is that, is he talking about like the Collins Group?

• 3:11:03Speaker 04

  I wonder, I've, I've, I've thought that too. That I, and, and so where is this air force? Where is this? Where are these people? And how are they hiding it in plain sight from us?

• 3:11:13AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:11:14Speaker 04

  It's, to me, that's fascinating, but it sounds a lot like, like a legacy program that, that's not being brought into the open.

• 3:11:23AJ Gentile?

  Why did Ronald Reagan talk about a space force that there's 3,000 people on craft? Remember that weird slip?

• 3:11:31Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And what, you, what, what is all the stuff that's in the, uh, what was it? The Snowden leaks and the WikiLeaks and all that different stuff? Well, and the, uh, Gary, the British guy, Gary, uh?

• 3:11:46AJ Gentile?

  Gary McKinnon.

• 3:11:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, him. He, you know, the, the files he found.

• 3:11:49AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:50Speaker 04

  What is all that? Right? You know, it's got names of ships and manifests and all that.

• 3:11:54AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, officers.

• 3:11:55Speaker 04

  And, and they weren't Navy ships that existed, so what were they?

• 3:11:58AJ Gentile?

  You know, I love this story, but it just, how do you launch stuff without anybody knowing? How do you keep that kind of secret? It seems like impossible to me.

• 3:12:06Speaker 04

  Well, is it? If, if we launched a rocket right now out of Vandenberg?

• 3:12:13AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:12:14Speaker 04

  What would you think about it?

• 3:12:15AJ Gentile?

  Satellite going up.

• 3:12:16Speaker 04

  Another satellite going up.

• 3:12:17AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:12:18Speaker 04

  If we launched something out of the Cape or out of, out at Texas at the new space ports out there, that's Elon doing something else, right? No, I wasn't thinking anything about it. And for years, they were launching top secret satellites on, you know, Titans and stuff out of Vandenberg and about a Kodiak and wherever else. So, uh, why, why, we never thought anything about it? Who knows what they put up?

• 3:12:39AJ Gentile?

  Could there be a shipyard up there?

• 3:12:42Speaker 04

  I think, I think now you couldn't hide it as easily because there's enough commercial uh, radars and all that. And just like with the whole moon thing, Elon's going whether we want him to or not.

• 3:12:54AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:12:55Speaker 04

  So he's gonna know if he don't already, right? Uh, and, and I, and I think, uh, that's, that's, that's one of the things that we'll, we'll find out very soon. I think disclosure has to happen simply because they, they can't keep up with the technology progression, whoever they are. Uh, you know, sooner or later, regular civilians are gonna be able to go and hike on the moon.

• 3:13:17AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, that's coming soon. That's probably in our lifetimes.

• 3:13:19Speaker 04

  That, I think that is in our lifetimes. Uh, so I'm, uh, I'm, I'm really hopeful that, uh, we'll get to the bottom of some of these things, you know? And then Hecklefish will be able to go and, and see that there, that Apollo 11 did actually happen and there, there are remnants of us landing on the moon and we walked on the moon in 1969 and, and early seventies.

• 3:13:40AJ Gentile?

  You don't like that conspiracy theory.

• 3:13:41Speaker 04

  Well, my dad was part of building the thing, man.

• 3:13:44AJ Gentile?

  Oh, that's right.

• 3:13:45Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, and I've been part of experiments where we bounced lasers off of systems that they left there on the moon.

• 3:13:51AJ Gentile?

  That's true.

• 3:13:52Speaker 04

  So, so.

• 3:13:53AJ Gentile?

  You can see the tracks.

• 3:13:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, there's something there. I mean.

• 3:13:56AJ Gentile?

  Do you think there's something weird on the other side?

• 3:13:58Speaker 04

  Uh.

• 3:13:59AJ Gentile?

  Like, do you believe Carl Wolf's story and all that?

• 3:14:01Speaker 04

  Well, I don't know what to think about that. I've heard the, uh, the airbrushed photos, things, and I, and you know, I'm, I'm one of the guys who found, uh, one of the, the three lights in one of the Apollo 17, uh, limb photos that, uh, was just released from the government. I'm the guy who found that.

• 3:14:17AJ Gentile?

  I didn't know that.

• 3:14:19Speaker 04

  And, uh, and, and that we don't know what that is. And I went to the limb in Huntsville and crawled all around that thing and looked at, tried to figure out if there's a way that this external camera was seeing blue lights somehow on, and, and the, the official debunking is, oh, well, the, the actual film had holes in it and when they scanned it, blue lights came through the holes. And I'm like, well, I looked at hundreds of canisters and if that were the case, all of that, all those films would have like holes in it like that? And this was the only one? Uh, and I had AI run it and it found three others, uh, in, in the, uh, in the photo.

• 3:14:53AJ Gentile?

  There are blue lights on the, on the moon. That's a fact. That's.

• 3:14:56Speaker 04

  Well, there was a triangle with three blue light.

• 3:14:57AJ Gentile?

  It was a triangle?

• 3:14:58Speaker 04

  It was a black, it was a black triangle with, with, with perfect, uh, with, with the apex lights typical from the stories, right?

• 3:15:04AJ Gentile?

  Could you get a sense of how big it was?

• 3:15:06Speaker 04

  No way of knowing how far away it was.

• 3:15:08AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:15:09Speaker 04

  Right? Cause it's just one camera.

• 3:15:11AJ Gentile?

  I'm trying to match it to what you saw over the ranch.

• 3:15:12Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah.

• 3:15:14AJ Gentile?

  There's no way to tell.

• 3:15:15Speaker 04

  No way to tell, right? But they, this is in the NASA archives. You, anybody can go look for it and find it. Uh, I, I, I can even tell you what, if, unless they've changed the archive, I'll tell you exactly which canister it was in. And we presented this to the White House. We presented it to the, the appropriate committees in Congress, to NASA. NASA said, yes, this is, this is, it's real, our, it is our image. It is there. We don't know what that is either. Then, uh, half the people in the room immediately started trying to say, oh, maybe it's meteorites and, and, you know, coming in, in perfect, you know, triangle, you know, like, and all this. Uh, and, and then the other half was like, we, we need to look, we don't know what that is. And, uh, so my thoughts are that if I, I, what I was doing wasn't looking for UFOs.

• 3:15:57Speaker 04

  I was working on a, a project where my, my second PhD was using craters on the moon as dishes for large, very large communications antennas.

• 3:16:07AJ Gentile?

  That's fascinating.

• 3:16:09Speaker 04

  Because a meteor crater is already parabolic by physics.

• 3:16:12AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 3:16:13Speaker 04

  And the lunar regolith is 11% reflective in the microwaves and, uh, and in RF. And so I was calculating using some of these 50 kilometer wide, uh, you know, craters as antennas. And so I was looking for better, uh, pictures to see if I could figure out how smooth it was, so I could calculate the error that would be put into the signal. And, uh, and while I was looking for better pictures in the Apollo and I looked in lunar conus orbit or all that stuff, I found this one picture in there and I was like, what is that? That's not supposed to be there. And I call, I sent it to Jay and Jay looked at it and said, what is that? I said, I don't know. So I started doing analysis on it and, um, and I did all sorts of, to make sure, number

• 3:16:57Speaker 04

  one, it wasn't an airbrushed image. It was a real image. The, the, it did say this was a scan of a photo, which is what it was, because it was a 35 millimeter camera on the outside of the limb. And then since, uh, NASA has taken all the photos and, and digitized them.

• 3:17:12AJ Gentile?

  Was 17 Edgar Mitchell's mission?

• 3:17:15Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 3:17:16AJ Gentile?

  It sounds like he was.

• 3:17:18Speaker 04

  No, that was, that was Conrad and Schmidt.

• 3:17:21AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 3:17:22Speaker 04

  So, um, uh, but who knows? There may be, I haven't looked, I only looked through handfuls, but if I found an anomaly in, say, a hundred out of a million, the odds are there's a lot more anomalies in, in some of those.

• 3:17:38AJ Gentile?

  I bet there are.

• 3:17:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:17:40AJ Gentile?

  Before we go, um, you wanted to set the, you wanted to set me straight about Hal and about some of the things I got wrong.

• 3:17:46Speaker 04

  Oh, well, so I, I just wanted to set, set you straight that, um, none of these guys, Jay, Hal, Eric Davis, uh, none of us, none, I mean, of course, we'd be telling you this if we were.

• 3:18:04AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:18:05Speaker 04

  But, uh.

• 3:18:06AJ Gentile?

  The aviary.

• 3:18:07Speaker 04

  Yeah. None of, none of the ones that you're talking about in the aviary, except for maybe Kit, because Kit often tells me stuff that, he says, well, I can't tell you that. And then I'm like, well, why can't you tell? He said, well, because they, I can't, he's still worried about, uh, whatever programs he worked on and, and when it, and it's not by nefarious reasons, it's, it's from, don't want to go to prison reason, right? Uh, but Hal.

• 3:18:29AJ Gentile?

  He's a blue jay.

• 3:18:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. None, none of, none of the guys that, uh, from that particular group have a nefarious bone in their body. Uh, most of them are, they're, they're extremely American patriotic, but, uh, they also are extremely want to get to the bottom of whatever all this is. And I don't think other than the threat of prison, right? Violating some, some NDA they signed, uh, they would be giving us false information.

• 3:19:02AJ Gentile?

  What's your take on Richard Doty, who worked with Hal and Benowitz and all that?

• 3:19:07Speaker 04

  So.

• 3:19:08AJ Gentile?

  The Condor, the Falcon.

• 3:19:09Speaker 04

  Richard Doty's been caught in so many misdirections that, uh, I wouldn't trust anything he says just because of that. Because even if he was doing it under orders.

• 3:19:18AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:19:19Speaker 04

  It's still, you don't know if he's telling you something that was under orders to be a lie or not.

• 3:19:24AJ Gentile?

  You don't.

• 3:19:25Speaker 04

  And so that to me is, uh, that's like trying to study randomness to find more randomness.

• 3:19:29AJ Gentile?

  It's very frustrating.

• 3:19:31Speaker 04

  Yeah. So I, I don't, I, that's just a source that I don't, I don't even consider a source because of, of that purpose, right? Because of that reason. Um, Lou, I don't, Lou is, um...

• 3:19:45Speaker 04

  He has a different approach to the history of, of, uh, OSAP and ATIP. Uh, ATIP was never a real program. ATIP was the name they used internally. And Jay often says, he wished he'd never put the word threat in there because it

• 3:19:59AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:19:59Speaker 04

  made people think it was an alien threat or something, but it wasn't what he meant. He meant, was it a threat to our airspace and, you know, but, uh,

• 3:20:06AJ Gentile?

  I've been hard on Lou. Have I been unfair?

• 3:20:08Speaker 04

  No, uh, yeah, I mean, everybody's, we're grownups, right? We're big boys and if you can't take it, you know, you should go cry to your mama or something, right? Whatever. It's, this is a toxic universe.

• 3:20:20AJ Gentile?

  It is.

• 3:20:21Speaker 04

  But, um, but so what Lou, I can tell you what Lou did, but I, but now it's possible too, that Lou was read into some program I wasn't read into. And there's always a chance, and I don't have anything bad to say about Lou, right? But what I, what I'll tell you that I know is Lou was, um, what, he was doing whatever his day job was, and he had a program that, uh, had a top secret, uh, SCI caveat for it, but the program wasn't active. And so there was nothing under that clearance. And Jay and Lakatsky, after OSAP, needed a place to park classified things. And they knew Lou and they called Lou and Lou said, uh, and they said, hey, Lou, could

• 3:21:04Speaker 04

  we use your caveat to park, uh, our classified stuff in? We'll write rewrite the class guide and so it'll fit to yours and we'll, we'll just mark it as your classification and you, you'll monitor the security for it. And Lou, and they agreed to it. And, and to my knowledge, that was all, that happened with ATIP, right? And it wasn't like a big program and, and while there was no official director, so it gets kind of, in nomenclature gets thrown around that Lou was the director of this or that. Now Lou was the owner of that top secret caveat. And I don't know, I mean, to my knowledge, there was anything other than like videos and things put in it.

• 3:21:46AJ Gentile?

  Well, the big problem with Lou is the Pentagon got kinda cagey and started kinda twisting the narrative a little bit where they're like, no, he was never the director of anything, which is true. And Lou, but Lou's like, hang on.

• 3:21:58Speaker 04

  They did the same thing with me. They, they said, uh, well, he worked with, he was never the chief, official chief scientist. And, and Jay said, never official, well, he introduced him to the council of the White House as the chief scientist of the UAP Task Force.

• 3:22:12AJ Gentile?

  But it wasn't on your business card.

• 3:22:13Speaker 04

  Well, whoa, that's another interesting point. So, uh, you know, Greenwald, uh, does the Black Vault or whatever.

• 3:22:20AJ Gentile?

  Yep, John.

• 3:22:20Speaker 04

  So John, interestingly enough, John was a producer writer on, uh, Rock City Rednecks.

• 3:22:26AJ Gentile?

  I didn't know that.

• 3:22:26Speaker 04

  So I know John. And, uh, so I've reached out to him a few times when he's gotten things wrong or whatever, or, or

• 3:22:33AJ Gentile?

  Oh, him too?

• 3:22:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, him too, right. Uh, and so try to like get him straight. But anyway, um, so John apparently did a FOIA request for any emails from me and Jay to each other.

• 3:22:45Speaker 04

  And the government's response is there are no emails between me and Jay. Me and Jay emailed each other for years, right? Which is, this is the most bizarre thing to me. And some of them were like, hey, how's it going today? Oh, it's cold up here today. I hate Maryland, or you know, something like that. Uh, and, uh, and why would they not at least release? And one email to show him, to just let him back off or whatever, but instead all it does is fuel a conspiracy thought.

• 3:23:10AJ Gentile?

  Right. So they said, we don't have them, or did they pull that classic, classification?

• 3:23:14Speaker 04

  They said they looked and didn't find any.

• 3:23:18AJ Gentile?

  I hope he appealed that.

• 3:23:19Speaker 04

  He did, and they basically can, uh, so every, he's been after it since like 22. And they've been responding to him constantly and the fight, basically gave him a final, don't call us anymore response. And he just posted on, uh, X a few days ago. I saw it and I was like, me and Jay were looking at it, said, well, how did, we couldn't believe it. It was, not that we care. I mean, uh, I mean, there's nothing in the emails he's gonna get other than just us talking about, uh, we're gonna meet and, and well, if we talked about anything, it was on a hamburger or in a skiff. So, I mean, there's not gonna be anything in the emails you could get.

• 3:23:48AJ Gentile?

  And you don't violate clearance by saying, yeah, we did email.

• 3:23:51Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 3:23:52AJ Gentile?

  You could say that.

• 3:23:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. That, that's so weird. I, I, I don't understand. See those, there are those kinds of things that make no sense.

• 3:24:01AJ Gentile?

  This is why people get angry at a lot of you guys. And it's not really your fault.

• 3:24:05Speaker 04

  It's not my fault. I didn't tell them not to do it. I mean, I'm sitting here right now telling you, I did email Jay Stratton. And, and, and it's nothing illegal about that. There's nothing, nothing to be classified about that. I mean, I've emailed you.

• 3:24:17AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:24:18Speaker 04

  So, I mean, that is so just bizarre. And, and so who is driving that and why? I think it's just to stir the dad gum pot.

• 3:24:29AJ Gentile?

  It's like, just like Richard Doty's, just to get us fighting and distract us while Lockheed and Raytheon are doing their thing or whatever's going on.

• 3:24:36Speaker 04

  I, I think you might be right about that. And, and, uh, it might be somebody like a Richard Doty's in there that it's their day job just to make things look, they're playing the trickster god part, right?

• 3:24:46AJ Gentile?

  Yep. Is there anything you want folks to know before we say goodbye?

• 3:24:50Speaker 04

  Uh, well, you know, uh, we just finished, I think, uh, the last couple of episodes, Skinwalker Ranch, season seven are almost done this year. Uh, we are headed back out to do season eight. Uh, and hopefully even more crazy stuff will happen and we'll catch it and you'll get to see it. Uh, my, uh, I don't know, I've lost count this time, 26th, 27th science fiction novel just hit the bookstores.

• 3:25:16AJ Gentile?

  Oh, it did?

• 3:25:17Speaker 04

  It's called Apogee.

• 3:25:18AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 3:25:18Speaker 04

  It is the sequel to a book called Ballistic, which my publisher said was the best book ever wrote. So we'll see. Um, but, uh, I think you'd find it interesting. There's a lot of simulation hypothesis, a lot of the Minecraft Vishnu stuff in it that we've talked about.

• 3:25:33AJ Gentile?

  I'll check it out.

• 3:25:34Speaker 04

  Um,

• 3:25:35AJ Gentile?

  Hitchhiker Effect is on Spotify.

• 3:25:37Speaker 04

  I was just about to say, and, and so Jay Stratton and I, along with Micah Hanks and Micah's brother, uh, Caleb Hanks, uh, John Nieberger, Jim Kelgaard and Rob Nelson, we have a band called The Hitchhiker Effect. And, uh, we play hard rock, uh, a lot of like sort of Guns N' Roses, Metallica flair with a little bit of a southern bit thrown in, you know, I'm, I'm, can't, can't leave my Skinner roots. But, uh, uh, two singles are on Spotify now. One's called The Tether and one is called I Bet They Rock and Roll. And, uh, they're available. So, hope you enjoy it. And we're gonna be playing live at PhenomCon in Vernal on, uh, whenever PhenomCon is, like the second week of, of September.

• 3:26:19AJ Gentile?

  Okay. That's worth checking out.

• 3:26:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. So come see us. But, uh, more than that, this has been a lot of fun. Uh, as always, it's great to speak with someone knowledgeable about all these things and, and realize that you're not, you're not an army of one and you're not by yourself and other people have been looking into it as well. And everybody else is just as frustrated and just as interested as we are. And I, and I will tell you that, uh, we don't worry about someone coming to a podium and telling you that disclosure has happened, right? Disclosure's happening right now around us all the time. You watch Skinwalker Ranch, you'll see we're disclosing whatever we can find so that you can see it.

• 3:27:00AJ Gentile?

  Dr. Travis Taylor, this has been a joy. I hope to, uh, that you come back and see us.

• 3:27:03Speaker 04

  Anytime, man.

• 3:27:04AJ Gentile?

  Appreciate you.

• 3:27:05Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 3:27:05AJ Gentile?

  Bye, everybody. That was Dr. Travis Taylor. He spent part of this conversation angry at a reporter who wrote the words his alleged education. So let's start there. He's got two PhDs, three masters. He's working on his third PhD in his 50s on theoretical physics. So that's all true. He'll also tell you the chief scientist title was never official and that's not a thing a resume pad or volunteer. Now that moon photo was interesting. Travis was looking for craters smooth enough to use as a radio telescope, which is a cool idea in its own, but he found three blue lights in a triangle in an Apollo 17 frame. And the Pentagon put that frame in the UAP files that they just released in May and they admitted, nobody knows what that is. Now what about the drilling at Skinwalker?

• 3:27:50AJ Gentile?

  That blew my mind as you saw. So they're like, what did he say? 70 feet, 370, whatever it was, they're drilling into the mesa and they can't get through this metal. They get some shavings of it and it looks manufactured. It's in layers, like arts parts. And then somebody jokes that the only thing missing to make this a meteorite is nickel. Well, they didn't find any nickel in the metal, but they pulled out a 1964 nickel out of the same hole. The boring explanation is the true one. Archaeologists bury a dated coin so the next crew knows the site's been dug. So Travis pulled every public aerial photo of the property. 1963 is there. 1969 is there. There's nothing in between. Now, I don't know what's in that mesa.

• 3:28:35AJ Gentile?

  I don't know what's in that hole. It sounds like a spaceship. I don't know, but I want it to be something. Travis's new novel is Apogee, the sequel to Ballistic. And if you're into hard sci-fi like I am, the books are really good. There's a reason they're bestsellers. His band with Jay Stratton, his Hitchhiker Effect, I haven't heard it yet, but I can't vouch for it, but I'm not gonna miss it. He says it's like Guns N' Roses meets Leonard Skinner. I don't know what that sounds like, but I'm down to try it. Everything I mentioned is linked below. Until next time, be safe, be kind, and know that you are appreciated.

• 3:29:36Speaker 05

  ...as well as music, songs singing like I should.

• 3:29:43Speaker 05

  But then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth, my friends. And it never ends, no, it never ends.

• 3:30:02Speaker 05

  I fear the crap cat and got stuck inside Mel's home with them cow trucks. I'm being only too aware. Did Stanley Cuprid fake the moon landing alone on a film set? Were the shadows people there?

• 3:30:21Speaker 05

  The Roswell aliens just fought the smiling man, I'm told. And his name was Cold. And I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2. And the weapons on my feet all through the night.

• 3:30:42Speaker 05

  All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. So the weapons on my feet all through the night.

• 3:31:08Speaker 05

  The Mothman sightings and the solar storms still come. To have got the secret city underground. Mysterious number stations, planets circle to Project Stargate. And what the dark watchers found.

• 3:31:27Speaker 05

  In a simulation, don't you worry though. The black neck said a lot of tone to me. So I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2. And the weapons on my feet all through the night.

• 3:31:48Speaker 05

  All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. So the weapons on my feet all through the night. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2. And the weapons on my feet all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. So the weapons on my feet all through the night.

• 3:32:27Speaker 05

  Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance on the dance floor. Because she is a camel. And camels love to dance when the feeling is right on wasting time. Girlie loves to dance.

• 3:33:00Speaker 00

  Mr. Monopoly here. Miss me? Monopoly is back at McDonald's with millions of prizes. A 2027 Jeep Cherokee, a Carnival Cruise vacation, gift cards from DoorDash and Best Buy. Feel the play in the McDonald's app. Get your bag.

• 3:33:18Speaker 01

  No purchase necessary. 50 U.S. and D.C. Age 18+. See playatmcd.com for rules and playatmcd.com/amoe for info and playing without purchase by mail by November 2. Chance card game ends November 8th. Game ends November 22, 2026. See rules for prize details. Monopoly is a registered trademark of Hasbro.

• 3:33:34Speaker 01

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