Pod Insights The Why Files: Operation Podcast The Basement: Dave Paulides | Missing 411 and Cases the Government Won't Let You See About this episode -Head to https://Superpower.com and use code BASEMENT at checkout for $20 off your membership. Unlock your new health intelligence. 100+ biomarkers. Every year. Detect early signs of 1,000+ conditions. #superpowerpod
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David Paulides spent his career as a detective. Then two park rangers knocked on his door and told him something that didn't add up: people are vanishing in our national parks, and nobody's talking about it.
Search dogs that won't track. Hunters who walk back with stories that shouldn't be possible. A bullet that hit nothing.
AJ sits down with the man behind Missing 411 to ask the question the Park Service won't answer — where did they go?
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Transcript 17,623 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:00 AJ Gentile? Today, we're talking with David Palitis. David spent almost 20 years in law enforcement, then two rangers knocked on his door at Yosemite off-duty and told him people were vanishing in the parks, and nobody would talk about it.
1:13 Speaker 03 Oh, you're adorable. Everything's about the money, my sweet son of a human.
1:16 AJ Gentile? I don't think it's about the money.
1:19 Speaker 03 America's national treasure polls a lot better than America's Bermuda Triangle with parking.
1:25 AJ Gentile? We cover a lot of fun stuff in this one. The disappearances, Bigfoot DNA, UFOs, vanishings in the park, all kinds of great stuff. After our talk, I'll come back and break down what I could confirm and what's still up for debate. And there's quite a bit. Let's go down to the basement. So Stacy Arises, I've read that her file was 2,000 pages. Do I have that right?
1:53 Speaker 04 I wish I knew.
1:55 AJ Gentile? I wonder how we know that? Because I tracked that down, and that's when I read that her file is that thick, which is about 10 times more pages than a typical missing person.
2:06 Speaker 04 I would find that hard to believe.
2:09 AJ Gentile? Would you really?
2:10 Speaker 04 I really would. I don't know what they could be doing if he hasn't touched it in 40 years.
2:18 Speaker 04 I don't believe that.
2:19 AJ Gentile? Well speculate on her case. Why? Why hold it for 40 years? And could most of the people in that file are dead?
2:28 Speaker 04 Oh, 100%. I think that there's only a few, few options. They lost it. Or the investigation is so sloppy, they're embarrassed. Or there's a suspect in the case and they dropped the ball on it.
2:43 AJ Gentile? It's one of, it's two or three, I think. Anything, something that makes them look bad is what it is.
2:48 Speaker 04 Must be.
2:51 AJ Gentile? So it's, it's not even disputed that they don't release lists of missing people at the parks. It's not, no one disputes that. They do not. And they say they don't keep track of it, which, which is, that's a lie. So tell the story. I guess a good way to get into the story would be, because we were just talking about George outside. George Knapp reaches out to you and says, they didn't even use your name in the article. I saw this on your show a few days ago. I'm like, Dave's pissed today, what's going on? So what happened? Substack?
3:30 Speaker 04 There was an article that was written in Substack. George sent it to me and said, Dave, you won't believe this. And it outlines the National Park's reluctance to release information on missing people and how much they wanted to charge. Huge article. And my name is nowhere in it.
3:50 AJ Gentile? And it's all your data and research?
3:52 Speaker 04 Yeah.
3:53 AJ Gentile? Like, didn't it come out the day after your Rogan interview comes out?
3:56 Speaker 04 It did.
3:58 AJ Gentile? What, they didn't reach out to you?
4:00 Speaker 04 No.
4:01 AJ Gentile? Why do you think they kept you out of that article?
4:04 Speaker 04 I have no idea. You tell me, please.
4:07 AJ Gentile? I don't know. Because the Bigfoot stuff, I would say, could be controversial, at least in my mind. One thing that's always frustrated me about healthcare is how often you leave an appointment without any real answers. You're told everything looks fine, but you're still left wondering what supplements you should take, how much sleep you actually need, or what your diet should focus on. That's what Superpower fixes. Superpower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab. It's one simple lab test covering more than 100 biomarkers, giving you detailed insights into your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin levels, and even environmental toxins.
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5:34 AJ Gentile? to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to superpower.com and use code BASEMENT for $20 off your membership. That's code BASEMENT. And after you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about Superpower. To be a favor, and if you could, tell them the basement sent you. Help support the show. So you reach out to the BOI, and you say, "I want the list." And they say, "Well, we're going to charge you for it." What happened there?
6:01 Speaker 04 I'd already written a few books. So I was a printed author. There's an exemption in FOIA. If I ask for documentation that they can get, that they're supposed to put it together.
6:18 Speaker 04 Well, right away, they refuse, and they say, "No, your books don't count."
6:25 Speaker 04 I asked George, same thing. He says, "No, that's BS." He goes, "They're just screwing with you." And he goes, "It's probably gonna get worse." He was right. And then I said, "Okay, well..."
6:35 AJ Gentile? Because some of your books are self-published, but some are not.
6:37 Speaker 04 Right.
6:38 AJ Gentile? Some are through publishers.
6:39 Speaker 04 Right.
6:39 AJ Gentile? So you are a published author.
6:41 Speaker 04 Exactly. And, just so people who don't understand, I might as well clear this up right now. I could have all my books published by a big publishing house if I wanted to.
6:53 AJ Gentile? Oh, yes, you could.
6:55 Speaker 04 But...
6:56 AJ Gentile? Don't do that.
6:57 Speaker 04 Don't do it!
6:57 AJ Gentile? Don't do that.
6:59 Speaker 04 Because you will get 12% to 18% of the book. Now, I don't make a lot of money off my books, but it doesn't take a whiz kid to go through the process and understand how to make your own book, go through your own website, and take 100% of those profits.
7:15 AJ Gentile? Right.
7:17 Speaker 04 Which is why I do it. And I don't have the politics involved with a publishing house. I could say whatever I want in my books.
7:24 AJ Gentile? Yeah, I bet there's publishers reaching out every week in your email, like, "Hey, we can get these out there."
7:31 Speaker 04 Correct.
7:32 AJ Gentile? No, you don't need any of that?
7:33 Speaker 04 No. So, I decided that I'm gonna file a Freedom of Information Act under, using all the formalities that are right and correct, and ask them for a list of missing people.
7:45 AJ Gentile? For every park?
7:46 Speaker 04 Every park, their entire system. And, six months later, they come back and they say, "Well, we don't have any lists of missing people."
7:54 AJ Gentile? Six months?
7:55 Speaker 04 Six months. "We don't have any lists of missing people." And, we've already looked and spoke to the management, and if you wanted us to go out and gather that information, we will not acknowledge your exemption. But if you wanted to pay for it, if you want a list from all of the park system, it would be $1.4 million. And if you wanted it just from Yosemite National Park, that would be $34,000.
8:26 AJ Gentile? And that's to justify what the work involved in compiling that list that they have?
8:31 Speaker 04 Correct.
8:33 Speaker 04 So I was on Coast to Coast, I think I was on Norrie's show and I talked about this and within a couple of days, I get a special agent from the Park Service that calls. And he said, "Dave, they are trying to screw you. Let me explain how this works." Each one of our regional offices, this has so many special agents, right? Every special agent has a handful of missing person case files in their desk. Here's what it would take, Dave. Each one of those special agents, maybe it takes them 10 minutes to type on a computer each one of the four or five files: name, date, location, case number.
9:15 AJ Gentile? And this is out of the six districts? Six districts?
9:17 Speaker 04 Each special agent does that. And then in each office, they send that list to their special agent in charge in that office.
9:26 AJ Gentile? Right.
9:26 Speaker 04 They cut and paste that on an Excel spreadsheet.
9:29 AJ Gentile? Right.
9:30 Speaker 04 Dave, maybe we're talking an hour and a half, two hours max. Each one of those special agents in the six jurisdictions sends that to the front office and how long is it going to take them to cut and paste? "Dave, they're absolutely screwing you." That's how I found out about this. And...
9:49 AJ Gentile? And they have the list anyway. This is all just words, "they have it anyway." Because we know for a fact they keep track of who dies in the parks.
9:57 Speaker 04 Hundred percent.
9:58 AJ Gentile? They've been doing that since 1897. They know every number, but they don't track who disappears? No, I don't buy it.
10:05 Speaker 04 Well, they have lists of how much toilet paper is in Yosemite National Park.
10:10 AJ Gentile? Sure.
10:11 Speaker 04 On an inventory list. They have a list on their website of every movie that was made in a national park. And George Knapp said one day, "Dave, they are absolutely lying. They have the list, they don't want you to have it."
10:25 AJ Gentile? So you compiled your own list of Yosemite?
10:27 Speaker 04 Oh yeah, that really got me mad.
10:29 AJ Gentile? Yep.
10:30 Speaker 04 So for the next year and a half, I just did nothing but focus on Yosemite. Wrote a couple of different books that included Yosemite cases.
10:37 AJ Gentile? Yep.
10:38 Speaker 04 And guess what happened?
10:41 Speaker 04 They released a list of missing people from Yosemite.
10:43 AJ Gentile? Hmm.
10:44 Speaker 04 Son of a gun. And what that told me, though...
10:49 AJ Gentile? And how close to that list to your list was theirs?
10:52 Speaker 04 Oh, it was... They missed a couple of really old cases that they probably don't want to even acknowledge, but...
10:59 AJ Gentile? But you had everything.
11:00 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. Yeah. But it also told me that I missed a lot of cases from the other parks, obviously.
11:08 AJ Gentile? Yes, of course.
11:09 Speaker 04 But, yeah.
11:11 AJ Gentile? Because you can't do two years per... Is Yosemite the... I don't want to say dangerous, that's not the right word, but what park swallows the most number of people? Is it Yosemite?
11:24 Speaker 04 Yosemite.
11:24 AJ Gentile? Yeah?
11:25 Speaker 04 Yeah.
11:26 AJ Gentile? Because in looking at Olympia, I think it's Olympia National Park, right?
11:30 Speaker 04 Olympic.
11:31 AJ Gentile? Olympic. I think they're up to something like 500 deaths. So if Yosemite's bigger, a lot of people have died in that park.
11:39 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
11:40 AJ Gentile? How long was your list of missing people from Yosemite?
11:44 Speaker 04 It was longer than theirs. I think it was approaching 70, 80.
11:50 AJ Gentile? You never really speculate on what you think's happening with these people?
11:55 Speaker 04 So there was a case I wrote... This is how confusing it gets. There was a woman that disappeared in Yosemite. And a National Park Service ranger took the report. And it was obvious that she was up on a hillside or on a cliff. And her body was found in a position at the bottom. That the wording used by the park service was "she was launched." Meaning she didn't fall. She was launched. Now, what they thought how she was launched was never made clear, but that was in their report. And it wasn't a missing person case. That's just a death case.
12:40 AJ Gentile? Right.
12:40 Speaker 04 So you could get that. And when I looked at that, it was never made clear how she ended up so far from the base of the cliff. Nobody ever said anything about it. It was just suspicious.
12:56 AJ Gentile? And they're not going to speculate in the case file?
12:57 Speaker 04 No.
12:59 AJ Gentile? They probably wish they never launched.
13:00 Speaker 04 Yes.
13:01 AJ Gentile? Is that a file that the public can get to, or no?
13:03 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah.
13:04 AJ Gentile? Maybe we'll link to it. Well, since your latest film is amazing. I watched it a few nights ago. Washington. It was 411 Washington. That's what we're calling it?
13:16 Speaker 04 Missing 411 Washington State National Park.
13:19 AJ Gentile? It's so good. It's Hollywood slick. I hope you're proud of it. You should be. I want to talk about a couple of cases in the movie. Some of them are really interesting. Jacob Gray is one. It's very touching. But a few cases are great. But that area, everything in your film is focused around Mount Rainier, which has a very interesting history. So maybe you or together, we can go back to December 10th, 1946, Marine Corps transport planes. Can you walk us through that story? Ever notice how every nicotine option makes you choose between
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15:05 Speaker 04 So they had a series of transporters leaving El Toro Marine Base in Southern California, kind of following each other up. And they were going to land at an Air Force base outside of Seattle. And as they got nearer to the location, the weather started to get bad. Couple of the planes landed, couple of them detoured, went to other locations. One of the planes never made it and was lost. They didn't know where it was. They didn't have a clue. And from the date that it went missing until the date that they could even start searching was weeks because the weather stayed so bad. Uh, there were rumors that maybe it landed in the ocean.
15:47 Speaker 04 There were rumors that maybe it went into Idaho. They, they were really lost. And sometime after that, a couple of months, businessman's leaving Idaho. And he's flying in to do business in Washington. Ken Arnold. Mm-hmm. And as, there was a reward for finding the transport. So Arnold is flying up and he says, hey, I'm just gonna fly by Rainier. Because there were some rumors that maybe it crashed there. So as he's approaching Rainier from Baker, he sees these three, four, five odd looking
16:31 Speaker 04 things fly by him. Well, Arnold is a super smart man. And he times when he sees these things going by two points. Mm-hmm. He goes by and does the math. And it's, it's going at speeds that we have nothing in the world that goes that fast. And he described them and they don't really, they don't look like a common disk UFO. They look unusual. Almost, almost like some planes that we have now. Yeah, they kind of look like a delta wing. People have seen that, these pictures. Yeah. And, uh, he eventually lands, tells the story.
17:15 Speaker 04 And that was really the start of the modern day UFO era, right there.
17:20 AJ Gentile? Because Ken described it as moving like it was a saucer skipping across water.
17:25 Speaker 04 Correct.
17:25 AJ Gentile? So it was flying saucers, and that's how it was coined.
17:27 Speaker 04 Exactly.
17:29 AJ Gentile? And it all starts with Ray Neer. He didn't find anything, but people eventually did, right? We know where that transport is now, and the bodies.
17:39 Speaker 04 Correct.
17:40 AJ Gentile? But you can't get to them.
17:43 Speaker 04 You hit a soft spot with me.
17:45 AJ Gentile? It's okay.
17:46 Speaker 04 They walked there. Some national parks people walked in on it, and they confirmed that it had crashed there. And then we brought in some other researchers, and something odd happened there. Why that plane crashed on that mountain is the million dollar question. It's located very high up on a glacier, and the glacier moves, so why hasn't that plane moved over the decades further down? That's one of the questions. The other question is, is that one of the researchers we brought in, Dave, far from the plane, he found a propeller using Google Earth. And talking to experts, that propeller can't get there
18:31 Speaker 04 if the plane hit the glacier straight on, at that location. It's almost like there had to be a mid-air event with something for that propeller to land up so far away.
18:42 AJ Gentile? Because you've got a debris field, I think there's almost three debris fields, because didn't Dave also find a fuselage at some point?
18:49 Speaker 04 Yes.
18:49 AJ Gentile? Because you make a good point about the glacier, that's one of the fastest moving glaciers in the country, so every 50, 100 years, things are moving around. Those bodies of those servicemen are in there, they'll surface, they'll go back under.
19:05 AJ Gentile? And we can't get up there to do anything about that.
19:08 Speaker 04 Well, when we were doing the film, the crew and I, we talked about, what happened to no man left behind?
19:14 AJ Gentile? Right. There's 32 men up there.
19:17 Speaker 04 Yeah. And if they were able to hike in, why couldn't they hike the people out? Or put them on sleds and bring them out? A lot of questions.
19:30 AJ Gentile? Does it feel like a midair collision to you?
19:34 Speaker 04 I'm not the expert on that, but from the people I heard, it sure seems like it hit, something hit it in the air.
19:40 AJ Gentile? You make a compelling case in the film. You know, there's a lot of stuff in there I hadn't heard before. I hadn't seen any of that footage before. I thought that plane was just gone. I didn't know that you found it. But then I started to get angry like, well, if we could see it on Google Earth, we gotta go in there.
19:58 AJ Gentile? Or at least make an effort for those families.
20:02 AJ Gentile? Because I agree, no man left behind. So Mount Rainier becomes the center of a lot of weird stuff. Flying saucers start there.
20:12 AJ Gentile? You said you heard a little bit about the Maury Island incident. That happened up there as well. This is a UFO flies over, drops slag on a fisherman. And this is the first time we get the Men in Black appearing in Seattle. Then we've got a connection to CIA, JFK as a whole thing. But it all starts right here at Rainier. So what is it about that place? It's got all this weird stuff. Is Bigfoot up there too? Were there orbs?
20:42 Speaker 04 So in our movie, American Sasquatch, Man, Myth or Monster? We filmed, there's footage in there at the base of Rainier of a woman that lives there that captured a Bigfoot. It appears it's coming in and out of a portal. And she's had tracks up there. This is right at the base of the park. I mean, probably within two miles. And there's been a series of Bigfoot sightings up there over the years. A lot of it related to orbs and other things.
21:16 AJ Gentile? Her footage was good. And, you know, I'm not a Bigfoot, I'm on the fence. I'm very skeptical of it because of all the hoaxing, but her footage was good.
21:27 AJ Gentile? And you did a great job in the film, by the way, of, and I said this to you before we went on the air, but I'll say it now. That there's a famous piece of footage, it was filmed in IMAX from this Canadian company or whatever, that shows, it looks like a Bigfoot behind a bunch of caribou, and you guys can find this online. But Dave went and got the original print. So when it shows up on the film, I know it's a hoax. And I go, oh, no, Dave, don't fall for this. But he got the original print and you can clearly see that it's, what, a guy on a bike?
21:57 Speaker 04 Yeah, when you look at it under IMAX with the big frames, it's so much easier to see.
22:03 AJ Gentile? You could see everything. It was, it's really stunning.
22:06 Speaker 04 Yeah. We were kind of wondering how the people were going to respond to that.
22:10 AJ Gentile? How did they?
22:10 Speaker 04 People were going to get mad. Ah, I think it's been all positive. I haven't heard anyone really come back and attack us about it.
22:16 AJ Gentile? No, I mean, people are still out there saying it's real.
22:18 Speaker 04 Really?
22:19 AJ Gentile? Yeah. Yeah. They email me.
22:23 Speaker 04 I don't know. I don't know how you could after watching that. It looks like a guy on a bike to me.
22:28 AJ Gentile? Definitely. He's got a hat. He's got a backpack. It's totally clear. Um, is Mount Rainier one of the clusters that you're seeing?
22:37 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
22:38 AJ Gentile? It is?
22:38 Speaker 04 For sure. Rainier has so many. I mean, we ran out of time on that film. It's one of the longer films I've ever made and we covered a lot of cases there, but they're near the end, we just kind of piled on and listed them. But they all kind of follow the same track. I mean, there's no scent trail by the dogs. There's no tracks found. Uh, there's no body. There's no backpack. There's no anything. And it replicates itself time after time after time. And
23:17 Speaker 04 it's all around the mountain.
23:19 AJ Gentile? What I found stunning was how far apart, like the last known sighting, and then we find, you know, half a tent and all this. It's like so spread far apart. Quick question. If the dollar keeps losing purchasing power and there's a pretty strong argument it will, what's your retirement account actually worth in 10 years? The stock market had a decent run last year. Gold did better. Silver did a lot better, up over 125% in the past year alone. Banks like Bank of America are now putting silver price targets at $309 an ounce. Gold projections as high as $6,300. Again, not a guarantee, but not nothing either. I vetted several companies before I'd put my name behind any of them.
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24:42 AJ Gentile? That's goldencrestmetals.com/theyfiles or call 888-949-9172 for your 100% free info kit. Can you tell the, um, I think his name was Jacob Gray? Can you tell his story?
24:56 Speaker 04 Wow, that was a tough story for me to tell.
25:00 AJ Gentile? It was.
25:02 Speaker 04 He was a young man from Santa Cruz, California. I lived in Santa Cruz for a long time. It's a really nice city. And he was a big surfer, swimmer, athlete.
25:14 Speaker 04 And he went up to see his grandmother, who lived in Port Angeles, just outside the park. And he was gonna leave from there and eventually ride across country on a bike.
25:27 Speaker 04 And then he wanted to tour the park at his kind of leisure.
25:33 Speaker 04 Well, one morning, he gets up real early, doesn't tell anybody, just goes to take off and goes into the park. And he...
25:43 Speaker 04 He rides in. Nobody knows exactly why. But he's pretty far into the park and he leaves his bike and disappears. Park service is notified. His dad is a lot like me because if I had heard this, then it was my son, I would have been there within a day. And his dad is there quickly.
26:08 AJ Gentile? His dad is a warrior.
26:09 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
26:10 AJ Gentile? He swam that river.
26:11 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. And the park service tells his dad, "Oh, your son's... the bike's right next to a river. Your son's in the river." And he goes, "What do you mean?" And he goes, "Oh, we kind of hiked the river and we saw some marks on the side of a rock." So Jacob's dad's thinking, "Hey, my son swims in 48 to 54 degree weather every day, just about in Santa Cruz. He lives through huge waves. He swims in ocean water. If he's in that river, he's just going to swim down a little bit and he's going to come out."
26:44 AJ Gentile? Yes, yes.
26:45 Speaker 04 And he's thinking, "Oh, these guys are lying to me." And he says, "Okay, I'll go in the river and I'll go... I'll follow it 10 miles down and I'll search every nook and cranny, but I don't believe he's in that river." He goes, "No, Dad, he's in the river." So the dad says, "Okay." Gets a wetsuit and he goes in the river. And for a couple of days, he just swims it. Told me he found some dead animals and... Says, "No, my son's not in the river." He goes, "He never was in that river." He goes, "I don't know why they're lying to me, but Dave, I knew he wasn't in the river."
27:18 AJ Gentile? Was this the case where they refused the helicopter?
27:21 Speaker 04 They refused helicopters, drones.
27:23 AJ Gentile? Why?
27:24 Speaker 04 Canines.
27:25 AJ Gentile? Because sometimes, I mean, frequently, they allow all that stuff. Why did Jacob not get the same treatment?
27:31 Speaker 04 So just later on in the film, I highlighted a case where a young lady disappeared about eight air miles from Jacob on a different river. They had multiple helicopters, multiple drones, same park, same management. But for Jacob, no. For her, yes. Why?
27:53 Speaker 04 So Jacob's dad was at the premiere. And he never knew about this girl. And he never knew how badly he was screwed over by the park service. And at the end, he came, gave me a big hug and goes, Dave, that was stellar. He goes, why is the park service lying like that? Why are they treating one case of a missing person one way and another 180 degrees different? And applying different rules to different cases? I don't get it. To make a long, long story short, eventually Jacob is found. No, not in a river. Way, way up a mountain.
28:30 AJ Gentile? Up a mountain?
28:31 Speaker 04 Up a mountain.
28:32 AJ Gentile? And this is, what, 15, 16, 18 miles away?
28:35 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. And a trail of clothes going to the top. And what I explained to his dad is that, number one, how did he, why did his bike stay here? Why didn't he just keep riding the bike another four or five miles to the trailhead? Why did he leave it here? And then at the top of the mountain, they said that there was a trail of clothes. So if he was getting hypothermic, all he had to do was hike down the mountain because it'd get a lot warmer quick. But no, he kept going up, way above tree line.
29:12 AJ Gentile? Now, hypothermic people will sometimes take off their clothes. That's a natural reaction. But they normally don't hike up a mountain 12 miles while they do that.
29:20 Speaker 04 No. And obviously, your body will tell you when you start getting cold. A lot of really hypothermic cases, there's no choice. You're confined, you're injured, you're in a valley, there's no way out, and you die that way. He had every option in the world, different. So really, what happened there? That's the real million-dollar question. And if they would have brought in a helicopter and searched, or if they would have brought in a canine to hit that trailhead, they probably would have found him.
29:59 AJ Gentile? Yeah.
30:00 Speaker 04 So I don't understand it at all.
30:05 AJ Gentile? It was a touching part of the film. Didn't you give that bike shop owner a kindness award?
30:09 Speaker 04 Yeah. So when Jacob was staying at his grandma's house, he took a ride one day and he was trying to fix up the bike for the trip across the US. And he rode into this man's cyclical shop, small shop. And he was explaining to this man what he was trying to do. And this is an older Asian man. Very kind person.
30:38 Speaker 04 And he goes, Dave, I was listening to what he needed and things. And I could tell he didn't have a job and he was kind of working off of savings. And I said, hey, I want to take the journey with you. So here, you take these gloves. They fit you good. You use those. And then he put a new back tire on. He goes, no, you're going to roll on my tire. And he goes, well, what do I owe you? What do I owe you? No, no, no, no. This is on me.
31:10 Speaker 04 So every one of my videos, I talk about kindness.
31:14 Speaker 04 And I said, you know, sometimes when you're at the store and a clerk's ringing you up, maybe she's having a really bad day or you go to the post office and you tend to take these people for advantage. Just take advantage of them and don't think what they're doing for us every day. Maybe smile. Hey, how's your day going? What have you been up to? And talk about that in every one of my videos.
31:37 AJ Gentile? I talk about it all the time, too.
31:39 Speaker 04 Something about kindness.
31:41 AJ Gentile? It's not that hard.
31:43 Speaker 04 Not that hard.
31:45 Speaker 04 And what this man did for him was unbelievable. When you really think about it, he would have never known in a million years that he was going to be standing up in front of 1,000 people with me giving him this award. He was crying.
32:03 AJ Gentile? Of course, what a nice moment.
32:05 Speaker 04 And...
32:11 Speaker 04 I don't know. It was a sad, it was a very sad,
32:18 Speaker 04 sad encounter that, the way it all ended, but yeah, you deserve that.
32:25 AJ Gentile? Does it get hard on you sometimes, just living in this world every day? You deal with nothing but pain.
32:31 Speaker 04 Yeah. Sometimes it does, sometimes it does. Every once in a while, I run across a case like that one struck my heart. It reminded me my own, my son. And yeah, I try not to let it get to me. I try to keep it as impersonal as possible, but every once in a while, these cases just hit at my core.
32:58 AJ Gentile? I don't think you think you should be that impersonal though. Sometimes you really help these families just by talking to them. Cause it's like someone's finally listening.
33:07 Speaker 04 Well, I get a lot of, a lot of hate, hate mail. Why are you doing this, you know? You're making this publicity to just push your own podcast and
33:21 Speaker 04 I think, you know, out of all the people I've ever talked to, I've ever written about, I've never had one person
33:28 Speaker 04 get mad at me.
33:29 AJ Gentile? Don't read the comments, don't read, don't read it. Just keep doing what you're doing, it's working fine.
33:36 AJ Gentile? There's one case that really fascinated me. I don't know if it's the same, same park. Gilbert Gilman.
33:42 Speaker 04 Yeah.
33:42 AJ Gentile? And I don't know how he told the story to get all the information in. But maybe I'll let you get started and I'll just, I'll add some color. But this is a very interesting case. Gilbert Gilman, so we'll go 2005, Thunderbird convertible pulls into the park. As in exchange with a ranger, walks out to the park with his camera and that's it. So what about Gilbert?
34:06 Speaker 04 So Gilbert was in army intelligence, spoke six languages, has a Bronze Star. Got into promoting people for political positions. And he was pushing a woman that didn't win for Congress in Washington. She was appointed by the governor to be the head of the public retirement system in Washington. He, he was picked by her to be the assistant director. Super smart guy, uh, single, lived in Washington. Had just purchased this Thunderbird, was real proud of it. Pulls into the park, playing his music loud. Ranger comes up, says, "Hey, do you mind turning the music down?" He goes, "Well, do you least like it?"
34:51 Speaker 04 That's what she said. And she goes, "No, I like it, but could you turn it down?" "Yeah." He's wearing a Hawaiian shirt, Bermuda shorts, and flip flops. Camera around his neck, gets out, walks into Olympic National Park. Pretty busy area where he disappeared. Walked up the trail, that was it. Um, he's supposed to be at a meeting for the retirement system the following day. The director reports him missing. Big search, huge search.
35:22 AJ Gentile? Well, talk about that search because that's a big clue to me. Because Jacob gets nothing, Gilbert gets 5,000 hours of federal search, all kinds of air, everything, ground pounders.
35:36 Speaker 04 Yeah.
35:37 AJ Gentile? That's a big response for just a pet, for an assistant pension fund manager?
35:41 Speaker 04 Huge. But I think everybody knew why he was getting that is because of the political tie-ins that everyone had to this case.
35:49 AJ Gentile? I don't think so. I think it's, I think it's something else.
35:51 Speaker 04 You think so?
35:52 AJ Gentile? Yeah. Goes, "All right." Know a little bit about the intelligence community, as my audience knows. We've got 82nd Airborne, two Bronze Stars, expert trooper. Okay. That's a feeder into a certain system, speaks all these languages. His posts are at embassies, so that to me sounds like he's undercover with state. Three of those languages he speaks are Arabic, Chinese, and Russian. One of his posts is Mongolia. Why Mongolia? Because it's our only listening post that borders on land with Russia and China. He's in Yemen, he's an interrogator as a contractor in Iraq, he's doing all this stuff. So that response to me sounds like that's a guy who knows things, that we got to find out what hap, where'd he go? Was he picked up by agents?
36:37 AJ Gentile? Was something nefarious? Did he fake his death?
36:44 Speaker 04 So in hindsight, the ranger believed that he purposely had the music loud. So that he would be seen by a ranger and acknowledge that he was there.
36:55 AJ Gentile? That's interesting. That wasn't in the film.
36:58 Speaker 04 No.
36:59 AJ Gentile? That's a nice, that's a nice note.
37:01 Speaker 04 Yeah. And she thought, Lustig was her name, she thought it was odd the way he was dressed. It wouldn't be the way that you and I would go hiking, right? He was, he didn't wear hiking shoes, nothing. He just seemed odd.
37:16 AJ Gentile? Especially for a trained ranger.
37:18 Speaker 04 Yeah. So. His girlfriend, who lives in the East Coast, flies out. His mom lives on the East Coast, flies out. Mom's in the 90s, sharp as a tack. So they're out there, they're monitoring the search. Search goes on for a week and a half, two weeks. They're not finding anything. They put divers in the water. They had helicopters in the air. Had everything you could manage. They searched his house, hoping to find some clue. Nothing. So.
37:52 AJ Gentile? Who searched his house?
37:54 Speaker 04 Oh, the special agent from the park service with the parents went to the house. So as, the mom's wealthy. Really wealthy. She had a penthouse apartment in Chicago that he stayed at occasionally and had a room there. And they lived on Park Avenue in New York. That's where she lived. As they're there at the park and this is going on, she gets a call from the management team in Chicago. Says, hey, Mrs. Gilman, just to let you know, a couple FBI agents were here today and they needed to get into your apartment to get some things.
38:39 Speaker 04 And we let them in and they left with some things.
38:43 Speaker 04 She's telling me this story. I says, "Mrs. Gilman, they can't do that." She goes, "No." I said, "No, they ought to have a search warrant." "And number one, your management team has no right to let them in."
38:56 AJ Gentile? Nope.
38:58 Speaker 04 "Oh, really?" "Just a, just a nice innocent lady." I said, "No, no." And she goes, "Well," I said, "did you fini- figure out what they took?" "Yeah." Gilbert, the last time he was there, wrote on a yellow tablet in Arabic. He goes, "I don't, I don't know what he wrote, but I kept it there. They took that." "And then there were two books that he asked me to get for him that were on his nightstand." And she goes, "Dave, I always thought that that was a clue to all this." I said, "Clue?" She goes, "Yeah, clue." So before I interviewed Mrs. Gilman, I interviewed the girlfriend, who had seen Gilbert about a month before he disappeared.
39:42 Speaker 04 And we start talking, and I said, "Well, did he have any ties to the CIA?" She kinda goes, "I don't think I could talk about that." I said, "What do you mean, you can't talk about that? You're under, you're not under a non-disclosure, you're not under a secrecy oath, you can talk about anything." She just... She said that about a week before he disappeared, he had called her. And she said, "I was in the middle of something, and I just couldn't talk, and I had to break away." And he goes, "But, but..." And she said, "You know, I always thought that he was trying, gonna tell me something, but I had to go, and I feel really bad about that."
40:24 Speaker 04 And she was, she was upset. So then I go on, I talk to Mrs. Gilman. And in the end, it's the feeling that this was probably a planned event. And that he went away for some type of governmental issue. And it was all orchestrated by the government.
40:51 Speaker 04 So when I talk to others about this, I said, "Well, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer." "Why was I able to figure this out and the park service didn't?" "Why is he listed as a missing person on the park service if there's something else going on, which we just exposed?" "Why are they lying to the public?" "I don't get it." "Now, if this happened once, okay, so be it." "But then I ask you, AJ, how many times has the park been used as a point to extricate someone from society and put him into service someplace else? And we don't know about it."
41:34 AJ Gentile? No, but we know it happens.
41:36 Speaker 04 Yeah, there you go.
41:42 AJ Gentile? Does your gut say that he's out there somewhere? He's deep, deep undercover.
41:47 Speaker 04 The question I really have is, let's say, the CIA needed him for some reason. What's the need to extricate him from society and make him appear as a missing person versus just take him in and use him? What's that? I don't get it. And I don't understa-- I've talked to other military people and they said, "This makes sense to us, Dave."
42:11 AJ Gentile? No, it's a weird way to do that.
42:13 Speaker 04 Yeah.
42:15 AJ Gentile? What do you think, why do you think he was trying to call attention to himself? To make sure that he was seen?
42:22 Speaker 04 To use the missing International Park as cover.
42:31 AJ Gentile? His mother was more open about his intelligence work. Apparently, they had a bit of a, kind of a code.
42:36 Speaker 04 Yeah.
42:38 AJ Gentile? But his girlfriend, man, she wouldn't say anything.
42:40 Speaker 04 She knows something.
42:41 AJ Gentile? Oh, yeah. I, you know, I was waiting for you to ask and you finally did. I can't, I don't think I can talk about that. It's like, "Well, I know what that means."
42:49 Speaker 04 The other point that I'll make here, and I don't care if Gilbert watched this, and but at the end of the interview with his mom, I said, "You know, there's a decent chance that Gilbert may see this someday. What do you want to tell him?"
43:08 Speaker 04 Please come home. I miss you.
43:12 AJ Gentile? Yep.
43:12 Speaker 04 Come on. How could you do that to your mom?
43:15 AJ Gentile? Yep.
43:17 Speaker 04 How could anybody do that to their family? I couldn't?
43:21 AJ Gentile? No, that's why I kind of lean away from that theory a little bit because I don't feel like he would do that. You know, when someone's pulled out like that for admission, it's usually someone with a little bit of cleaner background, like no one left behind.
43:35 AJ Gentile? To ask questions. You know, a wealthy mom could be a pain. If you're...
43:41 Speaker 04 Maybe.
43:42 AJ Gentile? You know, that could be a pain.
43:45 AJ Gentile? You think he's out there?
43:46 Speaker 04 I do.
43:47 AJ Gentile? I hope you're right.
43:49 Speaker 04 And I say that just because the mom feels that he is, and so does the girlfriend.
43:57 Speaker 04 I think the girlfriend does.
44:01 AJ Gentile? I never talk about this, but
44:04 AJ Gentile? probably my best friend in my whole life was, uh... I'll say pre-agency. And, uh, in great shape. And he was, he was working in Columbia Bogota Embassy and was... He died of a brain aneurysm on a run when he was 25. But, "we," meaning we and the family, couldn't get an autopsy, couldn't see anything. The body came home in a welded stainless steel casket. No further... I have his flag in my office.
44:38 AJ Gentile? It's all very strange. State Department would not cooperate with the family at all. So I continued to tell myself that Pat's out there. That that, all of that was just
44:51 AJ Gentile? staged so he could do that work, but then again, it's you left a lot of us hurting.
44:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
44:59 AJ Gentile? But it's something that happens.
45:03 AJ Gentile? Pat had called me two days earlier and he said, "If something happens to me,
45:08 AJ Gentile? you gotta come get me." I wish I still had that tape.
45:17 AJ Gentile? What else was happening in Washington? That I didn't realize that D.B. Cooper landed out there as well?
45:24 Speaker 04 Yeah.
45:27 AJ Gentile? What is about granite?
45:30 Speaker 04 So when you really get into the minutia about granite, it's an interesting mineral. And it has a lot of properties that don't exist in other rocks and minerals. And just to get to the core of it, where's the most granite in our world? Yosemite. And when I say that granite's involved in a lot of the disappearances and water is, well, what goes through the middle of that big, huge granite field in Yosemite? The Merced River.
46:06 AJ Gentile? What are some of the properties of granite that are interesting?
46:10 Speaker 04 It's conductivity.
46:12 AJ Gentile? It creates electricity.
46:13 Speaker 04 Yeah.
46:14 AJ Gentile? He's electricity.
46:15 Speaker 04 Yeah.
46:15 AJ Gentile? Especially with the river.
46:16 Speaker 04 Yeah.
46:17 AJ Gentile? Magnetic field, a lot of weird stuff.
46:19 Speaker 04 A lot. And I didn't know that when I first started. People a lot smarter than me write to me and say, hey, Dave, you're onto something here. And pay attention to this. And not just Yosemite, but when you get up higher in altitude above tree line in a lot of these places where people disappear, there's a lot of granite boulders. So when you hear, I've heard about this more than once, that orbs are seen in Yosemite a lot. And where do orbs tend to go? Right into the rock. So that's a hard thing to wrap your head around. If there's something inside that orb going into that rock, how does that happen?
47:04 AJ Gentile? They see it at Rainier, they see it at Shasta. It goes right into the side of the rock.
47:07 Speaker 04 Hundred percent.
47:08 AJ Gentile? Like the rock doesn't open.
47:09 Speaker 04 No.
47:10 AJ Gentile? It just goes.
47:13 Speaker 04 How does that happen?
47:15 AJ Gentile? I think you captured orbs in your film during one of the shots.
47:19 Speaker 04 Oh, really?
47:20 AJ Gentile? Unless you pulled that footage. But there was stuff in the sky during one of those shots. Maybe it was during the FLIR test.
47:26 Speaker 04 Hmm, maybe.
47:28 AJ Gentile? I don't know if you remember that from the film, but um, you're a FLIR expert, it's amazing. And as you're shooting, there's stuff moving in the sky, moving all around. I don't know if you remember that.
47:40 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. Now, so that individual is used right now at Skinwalker Ranch on their series during that research. And he called me, he lives in Seattle. Called me, goes, Dave, I want to help you if you can, if I could ever use you. And he has a FLIR device that he developed himself that shows about 10 times more than a normal FLIR would show. And we set up on Rainier and in six hours, I can't count how many things we saw flying in and out of there. And it's hard to, it's hard to wrap your mind around
48:22 Speaker 04 how busy it can be that, and we're not even seeing it. And we can't see it with the naked eye.
48:27 AJ Gentile? Right.
48:32 AJ Gentile? That's, that's one of those claims that kind of connects to Bigfoot for me is when skeptics say, how does it, how does it disappear? Well, if something can somehow shift into ultraviolet or infrared, you wouldn't see it. But it's still there. You just can't see it.
48:53 Speaker 04 No, there was a, there was research done in Pennsylvania where Bigfoot has been seen there so many times. And one of the times, a Bigfoot was seen holding an orb in its hand.
49:10 AJ Gentile? What?
49:11 Speaker 04 Yes. And this was in the proximity of where a UFO was seen hovering above other Bigfoot. So that association between orbs, Bigfoot and UFOs is almost like a weekly occurrence out there in parts of Pennsylvania.
49:32 AJ Gentile? Sounds like that story from earlier where the orb comes down and the creatures come out.
49:36 Speaker 04 Exactly.
49:39 AJ Gentile? If you go back to the native legends, because you like with the hoopa, are the orbs part of those stories too?
49:46 Speaker 04 Yes.
49:48 Speaker 04 Because if you really think about that story on the California Oregon border,
49:54 Speaker 04 that glowing moon could be an orb.
49:57 Speaker 04 Just by the definition, we just don't know.
50:02 AJ Gentile? Yeah, the tribe around Shasta, they are forbidden to go above the tree line because that's the home of the sky people.
50:09 Speaker 04 You ever seen Vanished?
50:11 AJ Gentile? Yes.
50:12 Speaker 04 So that's owned by the History Channel. You can watch it right now on Amazon for a couple bucks. But so they hired me to do an hour and a half special about missing people. We went up onto Shasta and about some missing people. And it's absolutely where that person went. There's no crevices. There's no place to go and.
50:38 AJ Gentile? Well, hold on. Now you're now you're getting me excited. Do you remember any of those cases from Shasta? Because I because I have questions.
50:48 Speaker 04 So the man that disappeared on Shasta, he was up there with a pilot from American Airlines.
50:56 Speaker 04 And another man that owned an import export business from San Francisco. And they had camped. His name was Carl.
51:06 Speaker 04 And they'd camped on the side of Shasta. He didn't feel good that night and they were putting the camp together. And they said, hey, Carl, you take off ahead of us and we'll follow you up.
51:18 AJ Gentile? This is the Carl Landers case.
51:20 Speaker 04 Carl Landers.
51:20 AJ Gentile? Yes.
51:22 Speaker 04 And he's going up and they said, yeah, we saw him climbing up. And then you hit a position where a ranger checks you in before you go up. Well, the ranger wasn't there that day and.
51:37 Speaker 04 They don't know, there were some thinking that somebody saw him making that final jump to the summit, others said they hadn't seen him. So, long story short, the head of search and rescue for the state of California took over that search up in that area. And they put a Cobra helicopter at the summit, over 14,000 feet, and dropped searchers and had them come down like a spider web on the mountain. They did that three times. And that search official said, "Dave, he's not on it. He may be in it, but he's not on it.
52:21 Speaker 04 He's either up there, or he's in there, but he's not on it." And he goes, "I guarantee he's not on it. There's no place to go."
52:29 AJ Gentile? I mean, Landers disappeared basically in plain sight with good visibility in front of two companions.
52:35 Speaker 04 Hundred percent.
52:36 AJ Gentile? And he was, and he was a trained hiker?
52:38 Speaker 04 Hundred percent. Good shape.
52:40 AJ Gentile? Good shape, 69 years old.
52:41 Speaker 04 Yep. Yeah.
52:43 AJ Gentile? Yeah, still, still nothing on him.
52:48 Speaker 04 Very, very few options on that. Very few options about what could have happened. And, and the searcher, he said, "Dave, I'm baffled. I have no idea."
53:02 AJ Gentile? Did you ever pull his report? His case?
53:06 Speaker 04 Well, there's, so, I got unlimited access to the head searcher. And he was, he was as transparent as you could be. So, he would have been the one writing them. And so, that would have been a state issue, not federal. State isn't covered by FOIA, only feds.
53:24 AJ Gentile? Right.
53:25 Speaker 04 So, I never even tried, but anytime I wanted to contact him, I could have.
53:32 AJ Gentile? So that was a long time ago, but just last year, um, I don't know if you looked into the Lesnar Cardenas case.
53:38 Speaker 04 Lesnar Cardenas.
53:39 AJ Gentile? He's driving, he flips his car, calls for help, um, police respond, he's not there. Apparently he hitches a ride home, grabs his hiking gear, goes to a trailhead in Shasta and just says, "That's it." And that's the last we've heard of Cardenas.
53:55 Speaker 04 I hadn't heard that. There is another case on Shasta within the last year involving a younger man, like in his twenties, disappeared on the mountain, too. I did a video about it.
54:08 AJ Gentile? And just nothing?
54:09 Speaker 04 Nothing.
54:13 AJ Gentile? When a case comes across your desk, what makes it a 401 case and what makes it not?
54:17 Speaker 04 Fit in those profile points. Tracking dogs can't find a scent, professional trackers can't find tracks. Point of separation, you and I are hiking together, "Hey, you go that way, I'll go this way," and something happens to one of us. Happens all the time. A weather event, either when the person disappears or when search and rescue starts. Granted, um, if the person is found, nine times out of 10, they have memory loss and they don't remember how they got lost or disappeared.
54:51 AJ Gentile? Those cases are wild, because that's...
54:54 Speaker 04 They are.
54:55 AJ Gentile? What was that one case where the guy heard the bagpipes? Do you remember that one?
54:59 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah, that was an Olympic case, Olympic National Park.
55:03 AJ Gentile? You want to tell that one real fast? He disappeared twice, didn't he?
55:06 Speaker 04 So he gets dropped off by a girlfriend and he's going to hike Olympic. And spends a few days, gets lost. And he's just camping out, wakes up one day and he's looking for, I think, something to drink or something to eat, and he hears bagpipes. And he kept walking towards those bagpipes. So there's a search and rescue team on the mountain looking for somebody else. Those bagpipes drug that man and led him right into the middle of that search party's camp.
55:43 AJ Gentile? Didn't they say he was, like, dirty and crazy and thirsty?
55:48 Speaker 04 Correct. How crazy is that?
55:51 AJ Gentile? And then what happens to him? He just...
55:55 AJ Gentile? Wanders off again?
55:57 Speaker 04 So I forgot who it was, but while he was missing, it was like a father-in-law or stepfather or it wasn't his direct father, but one of those people died. And there was, there was some theory by some that maybe those bagpipes had something to do with a father or father-in-law that died that led him to safety.
56:16 AJ Gentile? Yeah. That's a nice touch.
56:19 Speaker 04 Yeah.
56:21 Speaker 04 Got to admit, it's pretty odd.
56:22 AJ Gentile? Yes.
56:25 AJ Gentile? But I mean, if you're dying of thirst, you're all kinds of crazy things you're going to see and hear.
56:30 Speaker 04 Oh, and no doubt, but to lead you to the middle of the search camp? That's pretty remarkable.
56:39 AJ Gentile? That's, that's a great case. All right, we'll take a quick, a quick break, come back, we'll talk some more 401 and we'll get into some Bigfoot. Right back.
56:50 AJ Gentile? So I've been asked to ask you about one Shasta case. And if you don't remember, you don't, that's fine. Do you remember the Grandma Cappy case?
56:57 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
56:57 AJ Gentile? You do? Okay, thank goodness. Such a weird story.
57:01 Speaker 04 Very weird story. Little boy gets lost.
57:07 Speaker 04 Then he tells a story that he gets taken down underground. And there's this woman.
57:16 Speaker 04 She may, may be, been a robotic type woman because she admitted some kind of sparks and things. And the thing that was very odd about it is that he, he was taken underground and for a little kid to come up with this story is just bizarre. And the way he described this woman was bizarre. I would have ignored it and not given it two cents, except that for a little boy to come up with that story?
57:47 Speaker 04 I don't know if it's possible.
57:49 AJ Gentile? And the way he was found was weird.
57:51 Speaker 04 Yeah.
57:53 AJ Gentile? For you guys that don't know, this little boy is hanging out with his grandmother, Grandma Cappy, and says, "I like you better than the other Grandma Cappy." And mom says, "What?" And he tells this story about being underground with someone who looks like his grandmother, makes him defecate on paper or something like that. It's too weird to make up. Then search results, you can't find him. They searched the whole area and then he just appears out of the brush. And he's fine.
58:20 Speaker 04 And he's found them in a location that was previously searched.
58:24 AJ Gentile? Yes.
58:25 Speaker 04 Which is one of our profile points. And I wish I could have interviewed the child one-on-one, but we didn't get that option. So we have to just kind of listen to what his grandmother said.
58:42 Speaker 04 It's one of a kind. I've never heard of anything similar to that.
58:45 AJ Gentile? No, it's a really weird one. And I think his grandmother was camping there once and woke up with like puncture wounds. I don't know if you remember that part of the story, which was corroborated by a friend of hers. And they thought it was spider bites or something.
59:00 Speaker 04 Yeah.
59:01 AJ Gentile? But I think, I think it sounds like DNA extraction for the, for the androids that are under there. That's a great story.
59:09 Speaker 04 It is.
59:09 AJ Gentile? It's a wild one.
59:13 AJ Gentile? All right, let's talk some Bigfoot.
59:17 AJ Gentile? So you know, I don't like Bigfoot. I don't like, I don't like it.
59:19 Speaker 04 Well, then why are we talking about it?
59:20 AJ Gentile? Because, because if I don't, I'll get, I'll get, I'll get in trouble. When I say I don't like it, that's not what I mean. I want, I want all these stories to be real. I approach them with, as a hopeful skeptic, like Bigfoot, I want it to be real, but there's so much noise, I don't know what to believe. So in, in my mini-doc, I debunked pretty much everything, except Patterson Gimlin film, I couldn't debunk it. And the, the Freeman video, I couldn't debunk that.
59:53 AJ Gentile? Is there any other video?
59:56 Speaker 04 So when I go to a conference, I'm going to give you a list of things to think about. And this is what, this is how I started. And I start off talking about a man named Ron Moorhead, who had the Sierra camp. And it was a, it was a camp with hunters that went to it for decades. And they had these encounters at the camp with what probably was a Bigfoot. And he actually brought a recorder up and recorded the sounds that this thing made in camp. He then turned the recordings over to a University of Wyoming professor.
1:00:33 Speaker 04 And Rodney Curlin, University of Wyoming. And he said that these were not digitalized. They were not pre-recorded.
1:00:45 Speaker 04 They were a lower frequency than what humans could.
1:00:50 Speaker 04 Produce.
1:00:51 AJ Gentile? They're very unsettling. They're creepy.
1:00:54 Speaker 04 They are creepy.
1:00:55 AJ Gentile? Mm-hmm.
1:00:56 Speaker 04 Then they were turned over to a man named Scott Nelson, 25 years Navy cryptolinguist specialist, three-time Navy postgraduate school. He identified it as perfect language. We just don't know what they were saying, but he said, "That is language."
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1:01:42 Speaker 04 Now, there's a show called Expedition Bigfoot, Season 4, Episode 5. They hung microphones out there, and they recorded some things. They turned that over to a professor of linguistics, Dr. Ron Kosper. He stated those sounded like hominid, meaning they were articulated in the mouth. Asked by a producer if he thought Bigfoot produced language, Dr. Kosper said yes. And he said, "Kosper stated that there's reports of Yetis using language."
1:02:15 Speaker 04 Season 3, Episode 9, interviewed with Hank Bernard, a native elder. He stated that they are a tribe of people. They can bend light around them. Mariah Mayer, a good friend of mine, by the way, she and I did a cruise together. She said, "Something ran right by me, but I couldn't see it." We didn't walk through any of this. It's like she walked through a portal, didn't recognize anything. Something runs right by her. She says she doesn't see it. Dr. Rob Alley wrote a book called Raincoast Sasquatch, one of the best books out there about Bigfoot. And he had multiple, multiple reports of Bigfoot swimming amongst the inner islands.
1:02:54 AJ Gentile? Swimming?
1:02:55 Speaker 04 Swimming amongst the inner islands in Alaska. This was a common occurrence in Alaska. Now, apes and gorillas don't like to swim.
1:03:06 Speaker 04 Bigfoot likes to swim.
1:03:08 AJ Gentile? And apes and gorillas can't make language, they don't.
1:03:10 Speaker 04 Obviously not.
1:03:11 AJ Gentile? Right, they don't have the anatomy for it.
1:03:12 Speaker 04 No, so I'm gonna get to that.
1:03:14 AJ Gentile? Okay.
1:03:14 Speaker 04 Don't jump ahead.
1:03:15 AJ Gentile? Sorry, I didn't want to step on the punchline.
1:03:17 Speaker 04 So, in our movie, American Sasquatch, Colin Kelleher, the chief investigator at Skinwalker Ranch, where they alert, where they saw this biped come out of what looked like a portal. Six foot tall, 400 pounds. NASA website 2015 said portals are real. Jonathan Dover.
1:03:40 AJ Gentile? What did NASA say in 20, says portals are real?
1:03:43 Speaker 04 Portals are real, it's on their website.
1:03:45 AJ Gentile? Okay.
1:03:46 Speaker 04 Okay. Jonathan Dover, you ever heard of him?
1:03:49 AJ Gentile? Uh-uh.
1:03:50 Speaker 04 Another guy you would really like. He's a former Navajo Ranger. Uh, he's 30 years in law enforcement, graduated from the federal law enforcement school. Super smart man. Uh, he's Navajo.
1:04:03 Speaker 04 As a Ranger, they were like the fishing game for the Navajo tribe.
1:04:06 AJ Gentile? Mm-hmm.
1:04:06 Speaker 04 He gets called into his chief's office one day, after 20 years, and he and his partner get called in and said, "Hey, you're my new Bigfoot and UFO expert.
1:04:17 Speaker 04 We've had too many of these, you're gonna go investigate and you're gonna be the expert." He goes, "Hey, I don't have any interest in this." He goes, "I don't care, you're gonna go do it." Jonathan went out and for 10 years did nothing but investigate Bigfoot and UFOs. He said, "Dave, I can't tell you the number of times I walked and followed a path of tracks that ended in the middle of nowhere.
1:04:38 Speaker 04 Just suddenly stopped."
1:04:41 Speaker 04 Uh, DNA studies. When I was working for the technology people,
1:04:49 Speaker 04 one of the things they wanted was DNA. So, for, I went on coast to coast.
1:04:54 AJ Gentile? Who wanted DNA?
1:04:56 Speaker 04 The, the people that paid me to go out and do the research.
1:05:00 AJ Gentile? Oh, they wanted you to collect DNA?
1:05:01 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:05:01 AJ Gentile? Not yours, okay.
1:05:02 Speaker 04 Yeah. No, they didn't, they're not getting mine.
1:05:04 AJ Gentile? Mine either, 23andMe, no thank you.
1:05:07 Speaker 04 So we went on coast to coast and we got 14 states, different specimens, two Canadian provinces. When the people set in hair, we need the follicle for the DNA. So when they send in the hair, at first, we sent it to a hair and fiber expert. Now, a lot of people don't understand this, but there's people in the FBI and people on the outside that look at hair and fiber every day and use it for criminal prosecutions. Everybody's hair looks different. I mean, human, to ape, to gorilla, to deer, to elk, everyone is different. Bigfoot hair doesn't look like anything else in the planet.
1:05:46 AJ Gentile? Now, how do you know it's Bigfoot hair?
1:05:49 Speaker 04 If I see, if I'm a witness, and I see the Bigfoot walk over to, and this is exactly how it happened, they walk over to a shed on the property, this is in Hoopa, and they lean over this shed, and they're going through the big plastic bags in the shed. They pick out two bags, they pull back over the shed, at the point where they're pulling back over, right at the corner, it pulled out hair. It pulled out hair.
1:06:16 AJ Gentile? Okay.
1:06:19 Speaker 04 One of our guys went out there, accumulated the hair. The hair was sent to a hair and fiber expert. It's nothing on, that's ever been identified on the planet. This is replicated time after time, but when you look at it under a microscope, it looks like it has scales on the hair. It's very unique looking. I could teach you, AJ, in 10 minutes, how to be a hair and fiber expert and identify Bigfoot hair. Looks like nothing else. These 100, 100-plus samples that we had of just hair, they all look just like that, but they're like nothing else on the planet. It can't be mistaken. So you have the follicle, you can get the DNA, but you can only get mitochondrial DNA,
1:07:03 Speaker 04 meaning from the maternal side, from hair. But we also, in our specimen analysis and collection, we got blood, saliva, tissue.
1:07:11 AJ Gentile? Let me help them understand, so it's hard to collect fraternal DNA, because that only occurs in the nucleus, and it degrades very, very quickly. Mitochondrial DNA, it's all over the cells, there's 2,000 in every cell, and it's very hardy. So, easy to collect the maternal side, fraternal, almost impossible.
1:07:30 Speaker 04 So we did get saliva, blood, fingernail, and tissue.
1:07:35 AJ Gentile? I didn't know you had all of that.
1:07:36 Speaker 04 Yep.
1:07:37 AJ Gentile? Because I'm very aware of the Sykes DNA study in Oxford. I follow all of that stuff, and I lean towards Sykes's. I didn't know you had blood and saliva and tissue.
1:07:48 Speaker 04 So on Sykes's, from these 115 samples from all over North America.
1:07:55 AJ Gentile? Okay.
1:07:55 Speaker 04 So on Sykes, do you know that Dr. Meldrum sent Sykes Bigfoot hair?
1:08:01 AJ Gentile? I didn't know he did.
1:08:02 Speaker 04 He did.
1:08:03 AJ Gentile? I think he just passed, didn't he?
1:08:05 Speaker 04 He did.
1:08:05 AJ Gentile? That's a shame.
1:08:06 Speaker 04 So Dr. Meldrum and I did two different cruises together, and were the speakers on the cruise. I asked him that. I said, "Did you send Sykes hair?" He goes, "Yeah." And I go, "What did Sykes do with it?" He told me, Dave, that it was bear.
1:08:22 AJ Gentile? That's what's in the study. It's American black bear.
1:08:26 Speaker 04 So I'm gonna tell you flat out, it's a lie.
1:08:28 AJ Gentile? That's what Meldrum said?
1:08:29 Speaker 04 Meldrum, so first of all, Dr. Meldrum, smart guy.
1:08:34 AJ Gentile? And he's a tenured professor?
1:08:36 Speaker 04 I could teach you in 10 minutes to identify Bigfoot hair. You mean to tell me that you're trying to tell me that Meldrum sent and mistook black bear hair for Bigfoot? Impossible. You can't do that. I don't believe it. Sykes took all of the DNA samples and never vetted them through a hair and fiber expert? Just went straight to DNA? So...
1:09:00 AJ Gentile? He's a geneticist, that's what he does.
1:09:02 Speaker 04 But wait a minute, that's idiotic. Do you know how much that one sample probably cost him to do at that point? Tens of thousands of dollars. Why would you do that? That makes no sense. That's why I don't believe anything he did.
1:09:19 AJ Gentile? Fair enough. I wanted your reaction.
1:09:22 Speaker 04 Okay, so let's go on.
1:09:23 AJ Gentile? Mm-hmm.
1:09:25 Speaker 04 So we have non-human hair yielding human mitochondrial DNA.
1:09:32 Speaker 04 Non-human error yielding mitochondrial human DNA. Now, that on the maternal side comes back to 12,000 years into the Middle East. Now, we got nuclear DNA, but when we passed it through GenBank, the world receptacle for DNA, 352 billion base pairs when we did it, it had never been categorized in GenBank. It didn't exist. Now, when the movie came out and we interviewed other experts in other arenas, there were experts doing DNA studies on the elongated skulls. Do you know that they couldn't get DNA, nuclear DNA on those skulls either?
1:10:13 AJ Gentile? But they can get mitochondrial DNA.
1:10:17 Speaker 04 Yes.
1:10:18 AJ Gentile? But if you take a contaminated sample and run it through a test like PowerPlex, you're gonna get mitochondrial DNA perfectly, and you're gonna get fraternal DNA that doesn't match anything because it's called an amplification error. So, that's what you would actually expect.
1:10:38 Speaker 04 So, that's exactly what the press tried to push on the public. But we used, there's only like 10 of these in the world at the time, the Louisiana Crime Lab, completely automated system, extracts, analyzes, computes, does everything. And that came back and said, it gave us what was called a Q30 score. That's like a score about how accurate their measurements are. It was in the stratosphere for accuracy. Then the press came back and said, "Well, the reason it says 'human,' they're still thinking it's ape and gorilla, right?"
1:11:19 AJ Gentile? Right.
1:11:20 Speaker 04 "The reason it's human is because it's contaminated." So, they never said this in front of me, but I'll say it in front of you. If my DNA contaminated those things, it's gonna show I'm Greek and Russian. It's not gonna show Middle East. And on the male site, it's gonna show Greek. It's not gonna show nothing nuclear. So, that's impossible for one of us, humans, to contaminate it. And the problem was, is that there was nobody educated to counter these ludicrous things that were being said.
1:11:58 Speaker 04 Now, let's keep going here. This is important.
1:12:03 Speaker 04 There's only one country in the world, A.J., that committed their funds to studying the topic. Do you know who it is? Russians. The Russians spent millions. They got their best scientists in the world to study it. Do you know what the conclusion they came to?
1:12:19 AJ Gentile? What?
1:12:20 Speaker 04 Human. One of their researchers came here to a conference in Colorado, and I was invited to it. I walked into the back room at the conference, and they're holding my two books.
1:12:33 Speaker 04 And he said, "Dave, you're the only one that's told the truth. Everyone else is lying. We know what the truth is, because we've done it in Russia. Now, you're finally telling the truth here."
1:12:42 AJ Gentile? Did the Russians get the nuclear DNA?
1:12:46 Speaker 04 No, they got exactly what I had found. But, you see, they believed that it actually bred with a human.
1:12:57 Speaker 04 And they were trying to, at that time, extract the DNA from bones that were buried like 50, 70 years ago. And they were having a difficult time with it. But they said, "We know you're right, Dave.
1:13:13 Speaker 04 That's coming from the country that did it."
1:13:14 AJ Gentile? Yeah.
1:13:15 Speaker 04 So that's pretty powerful.
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1:13:49 AJ Gentile? Yeah, Russia invests in all that stuff.
1:13:50 Speaker 04 They do. So in 1924, I was doing a review on articles about missing people. In 1924, I found an article in the Oregonian newspaper.
1:14:05 Speaker 04 I almost thawed on my chair thinking, "I've gone to 100 conferences on Bigfoot. I've never seen anyone present this."
1:14:14 Speaker 04 The title of the article on the front page of The Oregonian was, "Big Hairy Indians: Back of the Ape Tail."
1:14:22 Speaker 04 I said, "What?" They called it "The Selitic Tribe." They said that they're covered with hair.
1:14:28 AJ Gentile? I know the tribe.
1:14:30 Speaker 04 Bear and bird language they have. They imitate anything in the woods. They have supernatural powers. They can kill game with hypnotism. Other tribes, the Klamim, Lumi, and the Quinalt have traded with them.
1:14:45 AJ Gentile? I've heard this.
1:14:47 AJ Gentile? That they traded with them. They had a relationship with them.
1:14:50 Speaker 04 Correct.
1:14:51 AJ Gentile? I've heard it.
1:14:52 Speaker 04 Yeah. And...
1:14:54 AJ Gentile? I want to be there, man.
1:14:55 Speaker 04 They said that they're another tribe of us. By the way, the article's in there.
1:15:02 AJ Gentile? Oh, is it?
1:15:03 Speaker 04 The article's in that book.
1:15:05 AJ Gentile? I see a very famous Giant Skeletons article right on the back of the book. I watched one of your videos, it might have been just a few days ago, where you were covering some of the... Sort of connect, the first time I saw anyone connect the giants legend to possibly being Bigfoot.
1:15:22 Speaker 04 Well...
1:15:22 AJ Gentile? And you were very cautious because you didn't attack the Smithsonian like I do.
1:15:28 Speaker 04 Oh, I have. I have.
1:15:29 AJ Gentile? Good. But I thought it was an interesting theory because we've got all these stories, articles in the press, bones being found, being shipped to Smithsonian, giant, all these native legends. Here are the bones. You've got the woman from the Lovelock tribe wearing the orange hair.
1:15:47 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:15:48 AJ Gentile? I mean, the hair is there. Well, I wonder if we can test that.
1:15:53 Speaker 04 So the truth is, is that every time that those giant bones have been found, it goes to an institution, mainly the Smithsonian, and bingo, it's gone. Why is it gone? Now, I'm not saying that all of those giant bones were Bigfoot, but I find it suspicious that all of those specimens are gone. How could that be?
1:16:15 AJ Gentile? Now, they will argue that...
1:16:18 AJ Gentile? That it's sensationalism and all of that, and that's fine. I will give you, I'll give you 95% of it. But we have records from the Smithsonian acknowledging receipt of large bones inside a large coffin as well. So like a giant ossuary, we have their receipt. So what do you mean you don't have it?
1:16:36 Speaker 04 Well, what doesn't make sense to me is when they said, "Well, you know, we're trying to hype this or something." No, no. The articles were written at the time the bones were found. Hype? It was in just a normal newspaper, trying to show the trail of where it went.
1:16:51 AJ Gentile? And there's so many articles.
1:16:56 Speaker 04 Oh, absolutely. No, absolutely. Okay, so that 1924 article, subsequent to that, I found several others that also talked about similar occurrences with that tribe, the Silotics. Then we bring in Harvey Pratt, brings witnesses, draws much more human-looking face than anything related to an ape or gorilla. Now, here's the part you won't hear at other conferences. Apes and gorillas, namely Gigantopithecus, let's talk about that. They don't have large breasts all year, all the time. Only humans have that.
1:17:38 Speaker 04 No wild ape or gorilla hair has ever been found in the wilds of North America. So, all these specimens that have been found, we know what Gigantopithecus DNA looks like, Paranthropus DNA, we know what their hair would look like.
1:17:54 AJ Gentile? We also know they didn't walk upright.
1:17:56 Speaker 04 Absolutely, they did not.
1:17:57 AJ Gentile? They were knuckle walkers.
1:17:58 Speaker 04 That's right. So, that DNA has never been found here.
1:18:02 AJ Gentile? Nope.
1:18:04 Speaker 04 Apes and gorillas do not like water to swim in. There's not one shred of evidence Gigantopithecus or Paranthropus has ever been in North America. No hair, no bones, no sightings. No evidence, just like you said, that they walked upright. Gigantopithecus went extinct 2 million years ago, and they say it was here just because of a piece of a jawbone and a few teeth, and that's it. So, when people say, "Well, Bigfoot is Gigantopithecus, Paranthropus, ape, gorilla," there's not one shred of evidence to prove that. Think about that.
1:18:44 Speaker 04 And I'm not saying that with no facts or evidence. That's 100% fact. Yet, we do have hair that doesn't match anything else in the world. That was seen by people. A Bigfoot going from A to B. We recover, we do the DNA. The evidence is there.
1:19:06 AJ Gentile? Do you still have samples sitting around?
1:19:11 Speaker 04 Samples of?
1:19:12 AJ Gentile? Of hair, tissue, that could be tested with more supervision? I know you don't like the Sykes test. That's fair. He was very specific.
1:19:23 Speaker 04 So, when I first got the samples and was looking for the DNA, you know where I went first? UC Davis. I lived in California.
1:19:30 AJ Gentile? Sure.
1:19:31 Speaker 04 I mean, one of the best scientific centers in the world.
1:19:34 AJ Gentile? Yep.
1:19:35 Speaker 04 You know what they told me? They said, "Hey, we don't want anything to do with Bigfoot."
1:19:41 AJ Gentile? Why not?
1:19:42 Speaker 04 I don't know. I got that from universities time after time after time. It was something that they didn't want to touch. So, I've... Do you know what BFRO is?
1:19:59 AJ Gentile? I do.
1:20:00 Speaker 04 Okay.
1:20:01 AJ Gentile? Bigfoot Research Organization.
1:20:02 Speaker 04 Yeah. Biggest Bigfoot research organization in the world. Great database. So, there was a man named Wally Hersham. Wally was the main benefactor to BFRO and gave them hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars over the years with one edict. Get DNA. If you ask them, they never got any DNA. Again, AJ, I'm going to say, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I was able to get DNA. Scott Carpenter and I got DNA from Great Smoky Mountain National Park. And then, we got DNA when we went on coast to coast. Why didn't they do that?
1:20:44 Speaker 04 So, Wally, when he heard we've got it, he joined our study. He actually helped finance some of the DNA work. Once that DNA was done, he said, "You guys did an excellent job. I know what you did is 100% accurate. You've answered all my questions in the Bigfoot world. I'm done." And he dropped out.
1:21:09 Speaker 04 He died not too long ago. He was a really good guy. And he was trying to just get to the fact of what it was. He says, I know now.
1:21:18 AJ Gentile? He knows?
1:21:19 Speaker 04 He knows.
1:21:21 AJ Gentile? I wonder what happens to Meldrum's work and all of his, everything he has?
1:21:26 Speaker 04 It went to Cliff Barackman.
1:21:28 AJ Gentile? Oh, it did?
1:21:28 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:21:29 AJ Gentile? Is it safe there?
1:21:31 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. Cliff's a good guy.
1:21:34 AJ Gentile? I think that field is gonna, is gonna, uh, is gonna miss Jeffrey Meldrum. I mean, they tried to have him untenured and it didn't take. Like, he's a...
1:21:44 Speaker 04 He was one of the nicest, did you ever get to meet him?
1:21:46 AJ Gentile? No.
1:21:47 Speaker 04 One of the nicest people you would ever meet. I mean, we were, we didn't agree on anything in the Bigfoot world, but we could sit around and talk.
1:21:56 AJ Gentile? He seemed very sincere. What did you disagree with him on?
1:21:59 Speaker 04 Oh, he thought it was an ape-gorilla-based, Paranthropus gigantipithecus.
1:22:03 AJ Gentile? I didn't know that he felt that way.
1:22:05 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
1:22:08 AJ Gentile? Uh, yeah, he's very valuable to the field because he's so credible.
1:22:12 Speaker 04 He broke down so many doors and he had people listen that wouldn't normally listen.
1:22:16 AJ Gentile? Yeah.
1:22:21 AJ Gentile? I would think there'd be more public support for, for the research.
1:22:26 Speaker 04 There's a lot of people out there that do it as a hobby.
1:22:32 Speaker 04 I, I personally believe that there have been organizations within the last three years that have done DNA studies that believe it was an ape or gorilla, that did the study, found out what it was, and then never talked about it again.
1:22:51 AJ Gentile? Hear that from the Smithsonian?
1:22:54 AJ Gentile? Over your research going back 15 years, I feel like you've moved from...
1:23:01 AJ Gentile? Or closer toward the interdimensional quantum orbs side of this story. Have you?
1:23:11 Speaker 04 Oh, definitely.
1:23:12 AJ Gentile? So what do you think is going on there? Because I think all UFO people in the community, researchers, I'll say we, we're moving toward it's some type of spiritual manifestation. Orbs are more frequent now.
1:23:30 Speaker 04 So I've been a MUFON investigator for 17 years.
1:23:34 AJ Gentile? I didn't know that.
1:23:36 Speaker 04 Yeah, I don't actively do any work. I'm too busy doing my own things. But I do have access to all their literature and research. And did you know that many abductees have seen a Bigfoot creature on a craft?
1:23:51 AJ Gentile? I've heard that.
1:23:55 AJ Gentile? Yep.
1:23:56 Speaker 04 So what do you make of that?
1:23:59 AJ Gentile? Yeah, all the missing time, all that.
1:24:03 AJ Gentile? Now, what is the quantum argument? Because I like quantum physics. You know, like you like hockey?
1:24:10 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
1:24:10 AJ Gentile? Yeah, I like quantum physics.
1:24:12 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:24:13 AJ Gentile? How does Bigfoot connect to quantum mechanics?
1:24:17 Speaker 04 So
1:24:20 Speaker 04 how something can be in two places at the same time?
1:24:23 AJ Gentile? Mm-hmm. Entangled.
1:24:25 Speaker 04 Right.
1:24:27 Speaker 04 So one of the things that has happened to the researchers at Skinwalker Ranch, they don't talk about it a lot, but they have gone public with it, the hitchhiker effect.
1:24:37 AJ Gentile? Yep.
1:24:37 Speaker 04 Have you heard about this?
1:24:38 AJ Gentile? The phenomenon follows you.
1:24:41 Speaker 04 It follows you. And it can go home with you.
1:24:47 Speaker 04 And nine times out of 10, it never bothers the researcher, but it will go after the family, friends. And it's almost, it's almost as though it wants to scare them or surprise them at some level.
1:25:04 AJ Gentile? A lot of poltergeist reports like this.
1:25:05 Speaker 04 Yeah, exactly. And I mean, we're talking about world-class physicists that have had this happen to them. So it's real. But that happens at the ranch when they're dealing with UFO issues. It's happened fairly regularly to Bigfoot researchers.
1:25:30 AJ Gentile? Hitchhiker effect.
1:25:31 Speaker 04 Oh, yes.
1:25:31 AJ Gentile? No kidding.
1:25:32 Speaker 04 Oh, yes. When you get down to the bare basics with these guys, everyone in the movie would admit it. That was in my movie. It's all happened to them.
1:25:43 Speaker 04 It's happened to me twice.
1:25:45 AJ Gentile? What happened to you?
1:25:47 Speaker 04 So I was doing the research in California. Moved to Colorado. And I was living in the foothills outside of Morrison, Colorado. Kind of a rural area. Came out to my car one day. And there in kind of the muddy soil right at my car was about a 16 inch track. Perfect. Just one. And it was at a place I couldn't miss it. It was right. I stopped everything. I searched for like 300 yards in every direction. Not another track. Just one.
1:26:21 AJ Gentile? Did you take a picture?
1:26:22 Speaker 04 No.
1:26:25 Speaker 04 I probably should have, but I didn't.
1:26:27 AJ Gentile? Nobody ever takes a picture.
1:26:29 Speaker 04 But so I moved to Montana. And at the time I was living with another lady. And I have a forest all around me. And she went for a hike. And she texts me, she says, you need to come out here right now. Uh oh. Grab my gun, go running back there. She goes, look, Dave. And there on the side of the trail is a 15, 16 inch track. Perfect. Just like my house in Colorado. Perfect. And she goes, what do you make of that? I says, well, let's, let's look. So we spent an hour looking, couldn't find any other track. So then we turn around, start walking back home.
1:27:13 Speaker 04 And I have to go over to this little knoll on the trail. And I swear to you on my, anyone's life, as we go up over the trail, laying right in the middle of the trail is a deer leg.
1:27:26 AJ Gentile? Wow.
1:27:27 Speaker 04 Perfect, right in the middle of the trail.
1:27:30 AJ Gentile? But no deer, just the leg?
1:27:32 Speaker 04 Just the leg.
1:27:35 Speaker 04 It was placed there so we wouldn't miss it. And she goes, oh, they're here, Dave. I go, oh, yeah.
1:27:42 AJ Gentile? That's your bowling ball in the creek moment.
1:27:44 Speaker 04 Yeah, there you go.
1:27:45 AJ Gentile? Let's go home.
1:27:46 Speaker 04 Yeah. So, things like that have happened to us before. We were in Colorado when I was living there. And there was a trail. We always liked to hike up in northern Colorado. And it snowed like six inches that morning. And we were going to take the hike anyhow. And we were out about a mile and a half and in fresh, perfect snow, starting on the hillside to our left, crossing the trail in front of us and stopping like five feet on this side. Perfect, perfect set of tracks. Stops, starts right there where you can see and stops right there where you can see. But that happens all the time.
1:28:27 Speaker 04 Now, the reason I'm leading you on this is that these aren't these creatures there leaving one track. There's something else going on. And I think it has to do with being in multi places at the same time and being, being able to leverage that to send us messages. Messages, I don't know what it means, other than, hey, we're here, we're keeping tracks of you. I don't know.
1:28:54 AJ Gentile? This is like part of the trickster legend, where they leave you just enough to let you know that we're here, but not enough to prove it.
1:29:01 Speaker 04 See, I don't believe that because I, I think that they cooperated with Scott and I and purposely left their DNA for us. Left their hair. Left their tracks.
1:29:12 AJ Gentile? How intelligent do you get the sense they are?
1:29:15 Speaker 04 Way smarter than us.
1:29:16 AJ Gentile? Really?
1:29:17 Speaker 04 Way smarter, yes.
1:29:18 AJ Gentile? Then why dig through garbage for food? Why not open a Denny's? A Bigfoot, a Bigfoot Denny's would be a good idea. See, those are the parts I can't square. You know, if they're hyper intelligent, why, why pluck a chicken?
1:29:38 Speaker 04 What's not intelligent about that?
1:29:40 AJ Gentile? I guess that's how we do it.
1:29:44 Speaker 04 Yeah, we're gonna eat it.
1:29:46 AJ Gentile? Yeah, so there's just parts of the story I can't square, but there are parts that I can't disprove.
1:29:53 Speaker 04 So one of the things I've talked about on my channel before
1:29:57 Speaker 04 is I was at a conference and somebody asked me to go to lunch and they were super smart, so I said, "Okay, I'll go."
1:30:03 Speaker 04 And they said, "Dave, I got a theory for you." You know, this one really made me think.
1:30:08 Speaker 04 "Dave, you've heard of that theory that we're in a simulation?
1:30:15 Speaker 04 Now, put your guard down for a second and think, we really are in a simulation."
1:30:19 AJ Gentile? I think we are.
1:30:21 Speaker 04 And whoever's playing this game with us, they earn a certain amount of points. And once they get enough points, they can put a Bigfoot down and see how you humans down there will react to it.
1:30:38 AJ Gentile? I love this theory. Because that's what you'd do if you're playing SimCity or whatever, if you earn the Bigfoot bonus, let's drop a track.
1:30:47 Speaker 04 Wouldn't you?
1:30:48 AJ Gentile? Yeah. Send Godzilla, whatever.
1:30:51 Speaker 04 Yeah. And then he said, "And then on that other side, we have this ant farm next to us.
1:31:00 Speaker 04 And Earth is the ant farm. And every once in a while,
1:31:07 Speaker 04 the homebody 20 planets away needs some fresh DNA and they pluck some out."
1:31:17 Speaker 04 I've heard that before.
1:31:18 AJ Gentile? Yep.
1:31:20 Speaker 04 What can you say?
1:31:24 AJ Gentile? It's unfalsifiable. It's a great theory.
1:31:30 AJ Gentile? I lean toward simulation theory. Speaking of science and physics, you brought in a couple of, are these missing scientists, right?
1:31:39 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:31:40 AJ Gentile? Which is, they're in the news. And we've got four men here, they're all German scientists, right?
1:31:45 Speaker 04 Yes, sir.
1:31:46 AJ Gentile? What happened to these guys?
1:31:48 Speaker 04 So here's the intriguing part behind this. First of all, I came up with this on my own about four or five years ago. Three out of the four are from Germany. The young man on the far left, he got a special scholarship because of his brilliance, Fulbright scholar, to come to the States and study graduate-level physics. He disappeared in Olympic National Park, January 20th, 1992. He was a genius.
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1:32:49 Speaker 04 Alyov Kross, the second man, was here for a physics conference in Los Angeles at Lake, and he came, went to Lake Arrowhead for the conference. He was a university professor of physics in Germany, 62-years-old. Went on a hike with some people, sponsored by the conference. As they go on the hike, there's like 20 people, he starts to feel ill. This is something I talk about in missing persons cases. If you and I are out together, sometimes, one of us will get sick and say, hey, you go on, I'm gonna wait here. That point of separation. He sits down, there's a guide at the front of the pack, a guide at the back. The guy at the, the guide at the back also doesn't feel good. So him and Kross both sit down.
1:33:34 Speaker 04 Kross says, I feel better. And he takes off, and the other guide says, well, I'll meet up. Kross took off and never was found again. Bingo, gone.
1:33:45 Speaker 04 Rich Reinhard Kirchner, he worked for a company called GSI Corporation. He's a physicist. He was studying heavy ion research. They had an accelerator where they bring in physicists from all over the world. He was here on vacation. He landed in Vancouver, rented a cab over camper, drove down to the little Colorado River Gorge and went for a hike. He had been there the year before. He was by himself, disappeared, never found again. Carl Dish, this missing maids, 65, at the Bird Ice Station in Antarctica. He was an ionospheric physicist, originally from Wisconsin, working for Boulder Labs, the National Bureau of Standards.
1:34:28 Speaker 04 He was walking between buildings there.
1:34:31 AJ Gentile? In Antarctica?
1:34:33 Speaker 04 Antarctica, during a storm. And they have ropes that you hold on to. He'd been there for a long time. He knew the gig. Somehow or another, he got off, off the rope, and he disappeared. Now, the interesting part about that is that there were rumors, and you can look this up, that there were lights in the skies seen, and supposedly, he called into the ice station years later and says, "Hey, I'm alive, I'm someplace else," or something. Weird.
1:35:02 AJ Gentile? Really?
1:35:03 Speaker 04 Now, that's not the only one. Kirchner, when he disappeared, disappeared really in the middle of nowhere, in the desert out there, in the little Colorado River Gorge. There were some sheep herders that, when he disappeared, they saw lights in the sky above his cab over camper. And when the Arizona State Police took over that case, in the report, they, because I have it, it says they saw lights in the skies and thought he was abducted by aliens. I've never seen anything like that.
1:35:40 AJ Gentile? Wow.
1:35:41 Speaker 04 In a police report, ever in my life. It's in the report. So for what it is, now that we talk about linkage, this is the only time I've ever seen confirmed linkage. All of them were physicists, all of them were German.
1:35:59 AJ Gentile? What makes it not a coincidence? Because they're so spread apart.
1:36:03 Speaker 04 How about this? I can't find another physicist in the world that's missing other than those four.
1:36:08 AJ Gentile? That's a good answer. And what do you make of the scientist controversy now?
1:36:16 AJ Gentile? Is it overhyped?
1:36:20 Speaker 04 Well.
1:36:22 Speaker 04 First of all, not all of them are scientists.
1:36:26 Speaker 04 Several of them, one of them was a program manager, McCaslin.
1:36:32 Speaker 04 And a couple of others were just peripheral support people. I think the press is trying to find linkage when there is none.
1:36:40 AJ Gentile? Really?
1:36:41 Speaker 04 Really, I think so. I think a couple of them are real. Couple of them are suicides.
1:36:46 AJ Gentile? I'm with you on most of that. You know, I tend to think the press is a tool of the state.
1:36:53 AJ Gentile? But I think it's overhyped a little bit. I don't talk much about it because I think a couple of those scientists are, would like to be left alone at the moment. So I'm doing that.
1:37:01 Speaker 04 It's very honorable of you.
1:37:05 AJ Gentile? Well, because I've covered so many of these cases of people working on advanced research that just, they get suicidal, they, home invasions, mugged in front of their house, you know, in broad daylight, over and over and over again.
1:37:20 Speaker 04 So, getting back to the German scientists here. I hope you don't mind me saying this, but on my YouTube channel, Can-Am Missing, like Canadian-American, Can-Am Missing Project is mine.
1:37:31 AJ Gentile? Yeah, plug it.
1:37:32 Speaker 04 Half a million followers.
1:37:34 AJ Gentile? Oh, it's going up.
1:37:35 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
1:37:36 AJ Gentile? It's going up.
1:37:37 Speaker 04 So, we talk about Germans disappeared, and they disappear at more of a frequency than normal people. Now, why is that? I get a lot of people that talk about that. And some people say, oh, there's something about the German blood, there's something about Germans going back centuries that it's different. I have no idea if any of that's true, but I'll throw it out there.
1:38:00 AJ Gentile? Well, they're the most common ethnic group in America are German descendants. Could just be that, 30% or so.
1:38:08 Speaker 04 Yeah. But how do you account for only German physicists?
1:38:13 AJ Gentile? I can't, I can't.
1:38:16 AJ Gentile? And, you know, with Kar disch, when you handed me this earlier, I saw the date and I was like, oh, this is a Nazi scientist. And you said, no, he's the only American on there.
1:38:24 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's right.
1:38:27 Speaker 04 But German heritage.
1:38:29 AJ Gentile? Hmm.
1:38:32 AJ Gentile? So no trace of Steve, so Bissert, he was, he was out of Washington.
1:38:38 Speaker 04 He was in the movie. That case is in the movie.
1:38:41 AJ Gentile? That's right. I remember him. So no trace.
1:38:44 Speaker 04 No trace.
1:38:47 Speaker 04 And you got it, you know, I mean, that's 34, 35 years ago, and still nothing's been found of his, which is odd.
1:39:02 Speaker 04 So let's just, let's just think about that. What is, what's the consistency?
1:39:09 Speaker 04 They were by themselves.
1:39:12 Speaker 04 They were in a very, very remote area when they disappeared. How odd is that, that those guys would be in that space at that time and disappear? Considering who they are. I mean, none of them made a living being in that remote space. The, the two guys in the middle, one a professor in Germany, one a physicist at a big corporation in Germany, and they're here and it happens here.
1:39:41 AJ Gentile? Yeah, it's weird with, you know, with a lot of your cases, they're experienced hikers, but there's so many cases where it's like, these men have, never go out for a hike and suddenly you're, you do.
1:39:51 Speaker 04 So Kirchner was, it had been said that he was a hiker and that he had gone to this little Colorado River gorge before. Now, when he disappeared, there were some US Fish and Wildlife people actually down in the water in the gorge doing some studies. Said they never saw anybody come down there. So if he didn't go down in the gorge, where did he go?
1:40:16 AJ Gentile? Have you tried to get these cases yet?
1:40:19 Speaker 04 I do have Kirchner's case.
1:40:20 AJ Gentile? You do?
1:40:20 Speaker 04 I do. Uh, Dish's case, I don't even know if there is a, you know, a case because it was at Antarctica.
1:40:27 AJ Gentile? Yeah.
1:40:28 Speaker 04 Uh, Cross, he would be the LA County Sheriff's. And Bissert's case is National Park Service.
1:40:41 AJ Gentile? Are there any agencies that cooperate with you? Do you have any? Are there any good guys out there?
1:40:47 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. I tell people that in most jurisdictions, the sheriffs are really, really good guys. And the reason for that? We elect them.
1:40:58 AJ Gentile? Right.
1:40:59 Speaker 04 Police chiefs, political appointees. Sheriffs, no. We got them into office. They usually respond. They're usually good. Not everybody, but usually good people.
1:41:14 AJ Gentile? The Bureau of the Interior is infamous for being litigious about its image and yet has not sued you.
1:41:21 Speaker 04 No.
1:41:23 AJ Gentile? I don't think they have issued a public statement about you. Have they? I mean, they know who you are.
1:41:29 Speaker 04 Not that I know of.
1:41:32 AJ Gentile? It's, you know, because it's very hard for the skeptics. It's like, if he's lying, they could just... The OI sues people.
1:41:44 AJ Gentile? You were working with Tim Burdette to try to get to Secretary of the Interior?
1:41:51 Speaker 04 Congressman Burdette, from Tennessee. Absolutely salt-of-the-earth guy. He's actually in our movie. And he tells a Bigfoot story. He's a big believer. He was, he had a fighter pilot tell him, tell him a story at the park right near where he lives, at Great Smoky National Park. Fighter pilots driving through the park and he says, "Bigfoot rock, right in front of our car, in front of my wife and I." And Tim goes, "Dave, this guy wouldn't even lie. Never lie." Anyhow, he'll, he's tried to help me before and trying to get through into the Department of the Interior to get to Burgum, who's the head of it.
1:42:36 Speaker 04 He knocks them down some doors, got me to him, and they wouldn't, wouldn't call me.
1:42:44 AJ Gentile? So you, you got to Burgum?
1:42:46 Speaker 04 No, no, no, no. I got to the Department of the Interior.
1:42:48 AJ Gentile? Yeah.
1:42:49 Speaker 04 And then they stopped returning my calls.
1:42:54 AJ Gentile? So it doesn't matter what kind of administration's in power. It's always Stonewall, no matter who's in charge. It feels like the UFO disclosure story. Doesn't matter who's in charge. You get read into the program and suddenly, I can't release the files.
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1:43:44 AJ Gentile? Is there a case that, uh... That you still kind of think about? Maybe is solvable, maybe bothers you?
1:43:55 Speaker 04 Eris.
1:43:56 AJ Gentile? Stacy Eris does?
1:43:59 AJ Gentile? What is it about her case?
1:44:03 Speaker 04 I've never seen them put up such a fight over any case like that.
1:44:09 AJ Gentile? Did you ever identify Agent Yu?
1:44:11 Speaker 04 Oh, I know who he is, yeah.
1:44:12 AJ Gentile? Oh, you do?
1:44:13 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
1:44:13 AJ Gentile? That's his real name?
1:44:14 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:44:15 AJ Gentile? Okay.
1:44:16 Speaker 04 I mean, it sounds Asian, but he's white.
1:44:18 AJ Gentile? Oh, that's helpful, actually.
1:44:19 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:44:24 AJ Gentile? And you haven't been in touch with him since?
1:44:25 Speaker 04 Nope.
1:44:26 AJ Gentile? Did you file an appeal against that FOIA denial?
1:44:29 Speaker 04 No.
1:44:30 AJ Gentile? Why not?
1:44:32 Speaker 04 I think there's a time to fight and there's a time to just... Go backwards a little bit.
1:44:37 AJ Gentile? That's not your hill to die on?
1:44:39 Speaker 04 No, and I was having... I'm still having success getting other case files from other areas. So, rather than make a huge stink about that that maybe shuts down the whole system, let that dog live for a little bit. Something will come on that case in the future.
1:44:57 AJ Gentile? That's smart. You want to pick your favors.
1:45:00 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:45:05 AJ Gentile? Well, before we get out of here,
1:45:08 AJ Gentile? maybe it's a weird way to close this, but I think it's important. Advice for people going out in the wilderness?
1:45:14 Speaker 04 Great question. So, in fact, I'm gonna do one in the next two weeks. Every spring, I do a video on what to carry in your backpack. And how to get it arranged so that if the worst happened, you'd walk out of there eventually. The number one thing is carry a personal locator beacon. And they're about the size of your phone. And believe it or not, most phones these days actually have that in it. But besides carrying your phone, make sure you carry a charger with it. An extra battery, solar battery, something to make sure that that thing will work in an emergency. There's a new device that just came out within the last year that is just extraordinary.
1:45:59 Speaker 04 It's about the size of a quart-sized milk carton. And what it is, is there's a canister inside. You activate the canister, you point it in the air, and a balloon goes straight up 150 feet.
1:46:13 AJ Gentile? That's great.
1:46:14 Speaker 04 And there's a light in the balloon. And that is your SOS. So if the personal locator beacon didn't work, that balloon is gonna get seen everywhere. And I always tell people, I usually introduce a couple of different bars that I know of to carry in your backpack, water, et cetera. But it's a good question. Personal locator beacon should be carried by anybody, especially if you go off trail. If you go off trail and you break your leg, you're not coming out of there.
1:46:49 AJ Gentile? I've noticed that a lot of the parks, national parks, don't want you to carry your gun there, even if you're licensed to carry.
1:46:58 AJ Gentile? Have you found that?
1:46:59 Speaker 04 It doesn't really matter what they think.
1:47:01 AJ Gentile? I mean, I'm bringing mine anyway.
1:47:02 Speaker 04 Yeah, so the way the law is, is whatever state the park is in, if you could legally carry your gun concealed in that state, then you can carry the gun concealed in the park.
1:47:16 AJ Gentile? I didn't know that.
1:47:17 Speaker 04 Yes, it's a law.
1:47:18 AJ Gentile? Oh.
1:47:19 Speaker 04 It's a law. So, as an example, if you're a Montana resident like me, and you travel to California, and because we have CCW, Ozing, Montana, that are very loose, that doesn't mean I can carry my gun concealed in California.
1:47:35 AJ Gentile? No.
1:47:36 Speaker 04 In the parks. But, could I do it in Idaho? Yes. Could I do it in Wyoming? Yes.
1:47:44 AJ Gentile? Reciprocity.
1:47:45 Speaker 04 Yeah, Washington, Oregon, California, no.
1:47:51 Speaker 04 But I would encourage anybody
1:47:54 Speaker 04 who has the wherewithal, go down to your local rifle or pistol range, get an NRA instructor, get comfortable with a weapon, and carry a weapon when you're hiking, if you can. And always, always, always carry bear spray if there's bears in that area.
1:48:12 AJ Gentile? Good advice.
1:48:15 AJ Gentile? Anything else you want the folks to know, where to find you?
1:48:19 Speaker 04 Missing411.com is my website for Bigfoot and missing people, not that they're related. But, I was talking to you about Jeff Meldrum and I doing the cruise.
1:48:28 AJ Gentile? Yes.
1:48:29 Speaker 04 I actually have a Missing 411 cruise and a Bigfoot cruise all in one, leaving in September for Alaska.
1:48:39 AJ Gentile? Do you promise the cruise comes back?
1:48:41 Speaker 04 I promise the cruise will come back. It's probably, I've done this three times, it's the most beautiful place to go by boat in the world. And, go through my website, Missing411.com, you can find the cruise and all the information about it, but...
1:48:54 AJ Gentile? So it's you and some experts on the cruise?
1:48:56 Speaker 04 Oh yeah.
1:48:57 AJ Gentile? Giving talks and stuff?
1:48:57 Speaker 04 Oh yeah, and, hey, we walk around, we get stopped by people all the time. I'm telling you, if you want access to the smartest, best researchers in the world, that's the place to go.
1:49:08 AJ Gentile? Okay.
1:49:10 Speaker 04 You gonna join us?
1:49:11 AJ Gentile? I'm into it. I love it.
1:49:13 Speaker 04 And lastly, I would say my website for YouTube, our YouTube channel, half a million subscribers. I load a new video on a missing person every other day. Can-Am, like Canadian-American, Can-Am Missing Project.
1:49:29 AJ Gentile? The video is a great, you're a great storyteller as well. So, and also very compassionate. So, a lot of the stories are touching. You're doing important work. David Plies, thanks for coming in.
1:49:41 Speaker 04 Thank you very much.
1:49:43 AJ Gentile? Bye, everybody. That was David Plies. We covered missing 411, the Bigfoot DNA, Skinwalker Ranch, and the cases without a clean ending. So, let me break it down. Here's what we know. David was a cop for almost 20 years in the San Jose APD. That's true. The Stacy Aris case is real. In July of 1981, the 14-year-old walked toward a lake in Yosemite and played to view her father and never came back. One of the biggest searches in park history turned up a single camera lens cap. Kenneth Arnold's 1947 flying saucer sighting happened while he was searching for a crashed marine plane near Mount Rainier. That's also on the record. Now, the bigger claim. David funded a Bigfoot DNA study run by a geneticist named Melba Ketchum. She said the maternal line went back 15,000 years,
1:50:28 AJ Gentile? and the father's DNA matched nothing on record. Well, there's some problems with that study. Her 2013 paper ran in a journal called De Novo that had never published anything before or since. It looks like it was built to print this one study. In fact, the paper was purchased or launched, I think, nine days earlier. Other geneticists also found problems with the study. One lab traced the sample back to a black bear, and no outside lab has been able to reproduce any of these results. Now, David knows the study isn't widely accepted and has rebuttals. But based on my research, we can't rely on that DNA. And there are other problems with the study that you could find online if you want to look into it. But there are no simple answers to the paperwork problem. Stacy Aris vanished 45 years ago.
1:51:14 AJ Gentile? David filed a records request for her file and got denied, under an exemption meant to protect active Criminal investigations. A missing 14-year-old girl from 1981 is somehow still an open criminal case. He asked for a list of everyone missing across the park system. They told him it would cost $1.4 million, or that no list exists. A cop asking for those files shouldn't have to fight this hard. And look, the list exists. I think the government's lying. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. David Politis isn't telling you aliens are abducting people. He never claims anything is paranormal. He lays out the cases and lets you decide. What he wants is the data the government won't release. And that's a cop's instinct, not a believer's.
1:51:59 AJ Gentile? Whether it's something strange in the woods, or a system that won't count its own missing, the real story is the same. We can't get a straight answer from the government. His books and films are at missing411.com. The newest are on Amazon, three are free on Tubi. If A Vanishing in the Wild Story interests you, watch our episode on Kenny Beach. He walked into the Mojave looking for a cave and never came out. It's a great story. Until next time, be safe, be kind, and know that you are appreciated.
1:53:21 Speaker 05 I fear the crackhead and got stuck inside Mel's hole with MKUltra I'm being only too aware Did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon landing alone? On a film set, would the shadows be pulled there? The Roswell aliens just fought the smiling man, I'm told And his name was Cold And I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 And one more summer beat all through the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth
1:54:05 Speaker 05 And one more summer beat all through the night
1:54:27 Speaker 05 The Mothman sightings and the solar storms still come To a Gotham, a secret city underground Mysterious number stations, planets searched for To Project Stargate and what the Dark Watchers found In a simulation, don't you worry though The Black Knight said a lot of jokes Missed so, I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 And one more summer beat all through the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth
1:55:11 Speaker 05 And one more summer beat all through the night Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 And one more summer beat all through the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth And one more summer beat all through the night
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