506: Nick Nichols—Folds of Honor

What does it really feel like to fly into combat knowing you may not come home? Colonel Nick Nichols https://partners.foldsofhonor.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2023/04/Col-Nick-Bio.pdf knows the answer. A 30-year Air Force veteran, F-16 pilot, and seven-time combat veteran, Nick now leads Folds of Honor https://bit.ly/TWIHIxFoldsOfHonor, providing scholarships to the families of fallen and disabled service members and first responders. Nick joins Mike to pull back the curtain on life in the cockpit, what deployment is really like, and the unlikely path that led him from the cockpit of an F-16 to a new mission with Folds of Honor. Then he tells Mike a deeply personal account of the one combat mission that still haunts him to this day Many thanks to our excellent sponsors BuildFreedom.us https://bit.ly/TWIHIxBuildFreedom—The best place to find a six-figure, AI-proof job. Build your future. Rebuild America. American-Giant.com/Mike https://bit.ly/AGxTWIHI—American Giant makes clothes that last, and they make them 100% in America. Use code MIKE to get 20% off your order. American Giant—American Made. ZipRecruiter.com/Rowe https://bit.ly/TWIHIxZipRecruiter—The recruiting site that really is the smartest way to hire. Post a job for FREE and find a qualified candidate in 24 hours. Chapter.com/MikeRowe https://bit.ly/TWIHIxChapter—Chapter compares every Medicare plan nationwide to recommend the right coverage for you. Call them at 804-CHAPTER or visit chapter.com/mikerowe https://bit.ly/TWIHIxChapter to get free, unbiased Medicare help. Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and standalone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan's contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your options.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Mike Rowe?

  Mike Rowe here. It's The Way I Heard It. Man, do I like talking to people who are doing exactly what they were put on the planet to do, Chuck. You know what I'm talking about?

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah.

• 0:14Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. Well, right now, I'm talking about a retired Colonel from the Air Force named Nick Nichols. And aside from the fact that he's stuck with the same name twice, he's done some pretty great things for our country. He's flown dozens of missions, gosh, over 100 missions.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 0:33Mike Rowe?

  And, um, yes, he was in Iraq. Yes, he was in Afghanistan. Yes, he's been shot at a lot. And yes, he's shot back quite a bit with extraordinary consequences. And, um, so on the human side, you know, what do you do after nearly 30 years of flying an F-18 into harm's way?

• 0:54Speaker 01

  16.

• 0:55Mike Rowe?

  16.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  F-16.

• 0:57Mike Rowe?

  One of those Fs.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  One of those teens.

• 0:59Mike Rowe?

  You know, it's funny, too. One of the things you'll learn in listening to Nick is that it's not like you can pick which aircraft you want to fly. You don't even really know until you've gone through the entire thing. You could wind up on an A-10 Warthog. You could find up flying a Stratotanker. You could find up, wind up in, what was it, a 16? An F-16?

• 1:20Speaker 01

  F-16, yeah, yeah. That's the same one that the, um, what's the elite group? The, um, Thunderbirds.

• 1:27Mike Rowe?

  Thunderbirds.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  The Thunderbirds are F-16s, yeah.

• 1:29Mike Rowe?

  Now, the Blue Angels, they were Navy.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  That's correct.

• 1:32Mike Rowe?

  I think they flew 18s.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Could be.

• 1:34Mike Rowe?

  You should Google it. While you do that, I'll, I'll tell you why I want you to meet Nick Nichols. I mean, if it was nothing but a conversation about his extraordinary resume, that would more than justify your time. But after he did all that, Nick went on to run a foundation or help run a foundation called Folds of Honor. Folds of Honor, you may have heard me talk about before because they are, well, they're MicroWorks on, on steroids. They have a slightly different mission at Folds. They help with scholarships, primarily the sons and daughters and spouses of first responders and service people who

• 2:15Mike Rowe?

  don't make it home. And, uh, they are huge, man. It was like tens of thousands, over 70,000 scholarships have been awarded, something like 240 million dollars.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're getting it done.

• 2:29Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. And, um, Nick called me about a year ago. We have a mutual friend named John Rich, who, uh, we'll discuss momentarily. But, um, Nick was getting a little frustrated because in spite of the extraordinary number of people he was able to assist through this foundation, the number of people who were entering the trades were not quite where he wanted.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:55Mike Rowe?

  So he just wanted to talk about ways that our two foundations might combine forces to help make a more persuasive case for the opportunities that are in the trades. Obviously, I said yes. Uh, we've been chatting and now it's happening.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  And I just want to say, he's kind of a cool dude, isn't he?

• 3:12Mike Rowe?

  You know, I mean, full disclosure, I was kind of expecting, um, you know, a kind of comfortably retired Air Force guy, you know?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  A little buttoned up, you know?

• 3:22Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, maybe put on an extra 10 pounds or maybe more. And it's just kind of enjoying his retirement.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  He's ripped. He looks like he could drive up in a VW bus, you know, and say, "Hey, man, you want to stay on the beach for a couple of days?"

• 3:36Mike Rowe?

  I was not going to go there, but I wouldn't be shocked. Yeah, he's got kind of a bohemian feel about him. He's all tatted up the way you would expect, but he's just, you know, he's about to turn 60 and he looks fantastic. And he runs a ranch in Tulsa and he hunts and he gathers. And he's an emissary for the armed forces, but he is also in love with this foundation and he should be.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 4:05Mike Rowe?

  So he's doing what he's supposed to do. And our conversation touches on a lot of stuff. And I think you're going to love getting to know him. And more importantly, I think you're going to love his foundation, which I hope you'll check out and support. It's called Folds of Honor. This guy, he's called Colonel Nick Nichols. You'll meet him right after this. So some of you may have heard, I went to Congress 16 years ago to testify before a House Subcommittee. And then again, a year later, to testify before a Senate Subcommittee about the need to reinvigorate the skilled trades with some kind of national effort that would make a more persuasive case for a lot of good jobs out there that didn't

• 4:48Mike Rowe?

  require a four-year degree. Well, 15 years later, I finally heard back from the government. And I am delighted to tell you about a program called BuildFreedom.us. This is the national PR campaign that MicroWorks has been talking about for a decade and a half now. And it's focused on 300,000 or 400,000 excellent jobs in the defense industrial base. These are the electricians and the plumbers and the steam fitters and the pipe fitters and the CNC operators and the shipbuilders and so forth. But in this case, all of those trades are focused on building out our national infrastructure through the defense industrial

• 5:33Mike Rowe?

  base. So people who are building our autonomous weapons, our planes, our ships, it's only a matter of national security. And it's a very big deal. And on a personal level, it's really been very gratifying. Build Freedom donated $10 million to MicroWorks. The money's available right now for you if you want to pursue a skill that's in demand and work in the defense industrial base. I think it's an opportunity of a lifetime. Go to BuildFreedom.us, see what's available, and then apply for a scholarship from MicroWorks. The money's there. Burning a hole in my pocket. Go get some. BuildFreedom.us. Colonel.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 6:15Mike Rowe?

  What an honor, man. Thank you for making the trip.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Oh, brother. I, uh, I've been so excited about this day for a long time now.

• 6:23Mike Rowe?

  Oh, come on.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  So thank you. I have. I have. I mean, I have followed your work for years and stuff. And just, you know, from the initial conversations that we had, just a mutual respect that we have for the love of our veterans and our country. And you know what? Just, you know, a couple of guys wanting to do good.

• 6:40Mike Rowe?

  And let's not forget country music.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, John Rich. John Rich.

• 6:45Mike Rowe?

  You know, it's so crazy. Did you know this, Chuck?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  No, I, there's a connection with John Rich?

• 6:49Mike Rowe?

  There's a connection to everything, all the time, everywhere. Um, but increasingly, like the longer I live, the more surprised I am by the seeming randomness of the people that bring me to the people that I'm so enthused to, to meet and know. And this, you and I are sitting here because John Rich interviewed me years ago on a show called The Pursuit.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:16Mike Rowe?

  That he used to host. And during that interview, I burst into song for no particular reason. And he laughed and said, "We ought to write a song together for the holidays." And during the commercial break, he went into the bathroom and wrote the chorus to a song that went to number one later that year called "Santa Claus Got a Dirty Job." And I swear, three weeks later, I was in Nashville and we recorded the thing with the Oak Ridge Boys.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 7:49Mike Rowe?

  And we kind of have stayed in touch ever since. And he told me about Folds of Honor. And he's been, I was going to say your guy, but I don't know if that's a fair way to, what is he, an ambassador, a spokesman?

• 8:01Speaker 01

  He is everything. I mean, he is such a champion for everything that we do at the foundation, from giving back through Redneck Riviera, not only, you know, the whiskey, but the restaurant and just being a champion for everything for us. He's unbelievable.

• 8:14Mike Rowe?

  When did you meet him? How did that happen?

• 8:16Speaker 01

  So I met, this is a funny story. So the first time I met John Rich, he was hosting a, this was during COVID. He was hosting like a little concert thing at his house.

• 8:25Mike Rowe?

  Like with the bar?

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:28Mike Rowe?

  That whole setup?

• 8:29Speaker 01

  That whole second floor thing, which is like, like, you know, you're in a rock star's house. When you go in there, you go like, okay, you could have a whole concert in there. But I didn't get to talk to him much during that, but it was in the evening. So we're up, have you been up on his rooftop?

• 8:43Mike Rowe?

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  It's got like actual grass on the rooftop?

• 8:46Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, because why wouldn't you put grass on your roof?

• 8:48Speaker 01

  I mean, it makes sense to me. Um, so we're up there and it's me, John Rich, Dan Rooney, our CEO and founder, and Clint Black. And, uh, we're just up there hanging out, drinking whiskey. And, uh, and I'm being somewhat interrogated about my knowledge of UFOs.

• 9:07Mike Rowe?

  Well, you did have a front row seat.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  I did.

• 9:10Mike Rowe?

  Buzzing around in a, what were you, an F-35 at that point?

• 9:13Speaker 01

  I was, I flew F-16s my whole career. And, and so he was not, JR was not having it that I didn't know anything about UFOs. I'm like, brother, I would tell you. Like, I have never seen one in my time. I might have seen one, but I didn't recognize it as one. And I got to know him there and ever since. And he's just one of these guys, like, I was talking to him earlier today. In fact, he told me to tell you hi. And he called me up and he's got another initiative he's thinking about for the foundation and just always a champion for everything that we're doing.

• 9:40Mike Rowe?

  Well, during that conversation with the whiskey and the UFOs, as you guys are, I'm sure, just triangulating all sorts of things that you're in violent agreement upon.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 9:51Mike Rowe?

  What do you tell him about Folds of Honor that makes him say, you know, I'd throw in with that?

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. So I think, you know, I think the, the attractive thing about the foundation is this, is that we focus on the family. There, there's many wonderful veteran and first responder causes out there and our veterans and our first responders should be taken care of. But the fact that we focused on the family and specifically on education and that education piece, obviously, we know that education in and of itself is not a means to an end. It's what people can go on and do.

• 10:26Mike Rowe?

  But to be clear, we're talking about families that are broken. We're talking about men and women who don't come home.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And the thing with JR, where it probably where he and I really, really connected, because I'm third generation Air Force, my dad was a fighter pilot Vietnam era. And so I'm one of the-

• 10:45Mike Rowe?

  Vietnam.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Vietnam.

• 10:46Mike Rowe?

  F-4s, F-100s?

• 10:48Speaker 01

  So he flew both, F-100s and F-4s, two tours in Vietnam. But I was also, I was one of those kids that got the knock on the door. My dad was killed when I was 15. So I lived the other side of this, right? I lived, you know, working 40 hours a week on a loading dock, putting myself through school and everything else. And so the passion piece for me is, you know, wanting to be there for these families and stuff, because that's a lonely place as a kid, right? After a while. And that connects with him, right? He sees that and-

• 11:17Mike Rowe?

  He not only sees it, he writes about it.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  He does.

• 11:19Mike Rowe?

  And then he sings about it. That's the thing about music, man, that has always just, I don't have anything new to say about music, obviously, but he's channeled so much of what he thinks and how he feels and what he truly believes into deceptively simple songs-

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:38Mike Rowe?

  -that resonate in profound ways with a lot of people.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And he's just, he is what you see on TV or a video. He is, that's what you get.

• 11:49Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  When you walk into his house, you know, that, that, that same evening, like, he, he let us stay at the house, right? And anytime you're doing these events and stuff like that, you never get to eat. So it's about 1:30 in the morning, I am starving to death. So I'm literally trying to eat and eat my way into his kitchen. I just want an apple or a carrot or something. I walk in and at the same time, he walks in and flips on the light and goes, Colonel, you hungry? And I go, and I go, yes, sir. And he goes, I got some leftover Indian food here. Sit down, I'll heat it up for you. And so we just sat there for an hour and ate and talked and talked about guns and knives and all kinds of cool stuff.

• 12:24Mike Rowe?

  So my version of that is, there's no concert in this place. I filmed an episode of Dirty Jobs that day. He reached out, like apropos of nothing. Mike Rowe, you don't know me, I'm John Rich, I play music. I heard you're in town. If you're bored, why don't you come over to the house? My guess is we probably agree on a bunch of stuff. My partner, Mary, was with me, who you just met. And I was like, hey, man, let's take it, let's, let's go meet John Rich. So we walk into this room and there's John, and he's got his guitar. And, you know, we get the tour. And then he shows me his whiskey, which of course is dedicated to his grandmother.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:03Mike Rowe?

  Now, I had just launched that stuff dedicated to my granddad. So we're literally comparing labels and realizing we've got the same basic story and we're trying to do the same basic thing, only he's doing it with a guitar and I'm just mouthing off to whoever points a camera at me. Well, we start drinking his whiskey and of course, it's red solo cups and ice, you know? And we're just there, just going through it, laughing, and then we start talking about sad songs. And he starts playing the saddest songs he's ever heard and I start singing the saddest songs I'd ever heard. And we just had a sad song sing off and then the whiskey was gone. And then somehow or another, we wound up down at his bar in Music Row or wherever that

• 13:48Mike Rowe?

  is. And then it got blurry.

• 13:53Mike Rowe?

  The end.

• 13:56Mike Rowe?

  But anyway, that is just to say that at the root of everything you're doing is just humanity and song and hope.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Oh, a hundred percent.

• 14:07Mike Rowe?

  All the normal stuff.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, you know, to, I think each and every day, you know, I wake up, you know, I'm early riser, right? And, you know, I've been in the military this long, as long as I was, like, you got your routines and all of that.

• 14:19Mike Rowe?

  How long, 20?

• 14:20Speaker 01

  I was in just under 30 years.

• 14:23Mike Rowe?

  Air Force, obviously.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Air Force, yes. And huge privilege to do what I did for 30 years and kind of a rare bird being able to do it that long and, and stay in the jet the entire timeframe and stuff, too. That was always-

• 14:34Mike Rowe?

  So Iran and Afghanistan?

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Iraq and Afghanistan, yes. And so most of my time was in Iraq. So did six tours in Iraq and one tour in Afghanistan.

• 14:43Mike Rowe?

  I said Iran because it's obviously on my mind.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 14:45Mike Rowe?

  Can't pick up the papers.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 14:47Mike Rowe?

  Where's your mind go when you look at those headlines and you read about what's going on and just whether it's the technical changes or just the geopolitical stuff? I mean, is this, how weird is it to have spent so much time in country and then to not be there for this?

• 15:06Speaker 01

  It's tough, right? And, because a lot of guys I served with, younger guys are still in, they're in the fight. And of course, you know, the, you never get the warrior out of you and you want to be there for it. But, you know, the best thing that I know that I can do now is, you know, this amazing platform that I've been given through the Folds of Honor Foundation, just to be able to sit kind of as a goalkeeper for these families and for these veterans on the other side of this and hoping for the best, you know? And that's the new fight for me, right? That's, that's what gets me up and gives me purpose every day.

• 15:40Mike Rowe?

  I was astonished when I dug in. I knew about you because I know John. And John, of course, always said, just, it's the best thing I've ever done and I just, I'm so proud of the association. But you've awarded, is it 270, 280 million dollars in scholarships at this point?

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. So with our current class, the 25, 26 school year, so 73,000 scholarships out the door, 240 million.

• 16:08Mike Rowe?

  240.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 16:12Mike Rowe?

  Is there a bigger initiative in the country for vets than yours?

• 16:17Speaker 01

  In the education piece, there's not. There's not. We're it. There's some wonderful, smaller nonprofits out there that are, you know, doing God's work with this and, and we salute them, we appreciate them, we cheer everybody on. You know, we're done, we don't consider ourselves to be in a competition here. But we fortunately have, you know, we've made some really good decisions. We've grown and we're, we're not growing for the sake of growing, we're growing for the need. And, you know, if you take a look at, you know, this current school year, you know, we were able to put 11,000 scholarships out the door. But there were 7,700 qualified applicants that we could not fund.

• 16:52Mike Rowe?

  And, and tell me again specifically what makes an applicant qualified?

• 16:57Speaker 01

  So we fund scholarships to the spouses and kids of either military members or first responders who have either been killed or disabled. Okay? And so we look at some needs based stuff, but we're really focusing on the sacrifice of that military member, that first responder. So obviously, if you have given your life in service of this country, in service of your community, you immediately go to the top of the list in what we do.

• 17:19Mike Rowe?

  Do you know this person specifically?

• 17:20Speaker 01

  I do know this person.

• 17:21Mike Rowe?

  Who's this?

• 17:22Speaker 01

  She is, the name is going to escape me right now, but she is one of the most beautiful human beings that you will ever meet in your entire life. And, you know, what's interesting about these families, Mike, is this, they appreciate the scholarships, right? And a lot of these families would tell you, like, we wouldn't be able to do what we're doing, we wouldn't be able to achieve our educational dreams if it weren't for the support of the foundation. But more important than that, if she was sitting here right now, she would tell you, thank you that I'm still seen, thank you that I'm still heard, and thank you that you didn't forget.

• 17:56Mike Rowe?

  Is that the biggest unifying thing that you see in these families? This, this fear of being forgotten, overlooked, just like this in the wake of a colossal loss, to still be around to see how life goes on everywhere else. It just must be befuddling.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  It is, and I think the cruelest thing that we can do to anybody is showing difference. I mean, it is like, it's the most dismissive thing in the world. And, you know, and after this country with, you know, 20 plus years in the global war on terrorism and, you know, how many 18, 19 year old young men gave their lives and, you know, just name the area in Iraq and Afghanistan. But to provide these families with some hope that there's actually Americans out there who don't forget and we do care, you know, we're going to do something tangible behind it. We're going to come along and make sure that your spouse, your son, your daughter, whoever it might be, whatever they want to achieve in life, let's do it. And the beautiful thing about this is, is like some of these kids' stories will just

• 19:05Speaker 01

  blow your mind. I mean, it is like, like what they have gone on to do. There's this, and I won't mention her name, but a young lady, who's a graduate now. Her father was severely injured in, in a parachute jump and he's bedridden. Okay. And he is not going to make it. He's bedridden for a year. So every evening she sits by his bedside and plays guitar and sings. And that's what she does. She goes on to get her music therapy degree. Guess where she works? Same hospital where her dad died.

• 19:39Mike Rowe?

  Good grief.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the, again, like I said before, you know, education isn't a means in and of itself. She saw something, you know, the most tragic thing. Of course, this little girl loves her daddy. Okay. And would trade that scholarship in a heartbeat to have her dad back. But the next best thing that she could do was turn that into something positive, something beautiful, something that, you know what? I'm going to turn this tragedy and I'm going to be there for other families who are just like me.

• 20:15Mike Rowe?

  The deal is not all that complicated. If you think about it, you show up, you put in the hours, you do the job right, and then you come back and do it again tomorrow for 40 years or so. After that, you're promised a few things like Medicare. Well, this is the time to look at your coverage for the coming year and make sure it's still working for you. Problem is, nobody makes that particularly easy because there are dozens of plans out there, benefits that change every year, different doctors, different prescriptions, different costs, and a lot of people are making a lot of money off all the confusion. That's why I'm super happy to welcome Chapter as a sponsor of this podcast.

• 20:57Mike Rowe?

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• 21:41Mike Rowe?

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• 22:01Mike Rowe?

  No pressure, John Rich, but here's your next song.

• 22:06Mike Rowe?

  Hashtag just saying.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 22:10Mike Rowe?

  Look at these sponsors. Everybody loves you. Everybody loves what you're doing. How many of those did you get? How do you, how do you run that? Not to get too in the weeds, but you know, foundations are mysterious to a lot of people.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 22:26Mike Rowe?

  You know, most people don't realize, for instance, that running one is really no different and in some ways more challenging than running a for-profit business.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  For sure. For sure.

• 22:38Mike Rowe?

  And so how do you spend most of your time? I'm thinking fundraising is probably a chunk, but internal managing, outreach. What's your day like when you're fully immersed?

• 22:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully immersed for me, you know, three years ago, the answer would have been different. You know, we were in a growth spurt and I was building a lot of the team, bringing in, and I'm very thankful now that I've been fortunate, some good leaders have come along, got a lot of, you know, folks in, heading up departments that are super solid. And so not as much time and attention needed in the day-to-day aspect of stuff. And my energy can more be focused on, you know, being here with, you know, in situations like this with you and talking about all the goodness. And then, you know, with corporate partners, it's interesting. We bring something, I want to say it's completely unique to the Folds of Honor Foundation, but I think it's pretty unique and that is, we provide a unifying message, right?

• 23:35Speaker 01

  And, you know, nothing for us is red and blue. It's all a red, white and blue issue. At the end of the day, we're all Americans. We can disagree politically, we can disagree about the war in Iran or whatever it might be, but nothing good happens in this nation. If you're not free, you're not safe. And we owe a debt to these families and...

• 23:53Mike Rowe?

  You can't disagree with that.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  You can't. You can't, you can't turn your back on that. You can't walk away from that because at the end of the day, all of these companies, and they know this, they have profited because they live in the land of the free. And you can't live in the land of the free and not be taken back by what it cost us to get where we are. I mean, we were birthed in violence. Okay. And, you know, as long as we stand for freedom, there's going to be a need for foundations like the Folds of Honor to come behind and take care of these families. And especially on the military side, less than half of 1% have ever served this nation, right? That half of 1% are why we are here right now. And for our first responders, 240 million times a year, 911 is dialed. Okay.

• 24:37Mike Rowe?

  Say it again.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  240 million times a year, 911 is dialed. Unbelievable. So you're talking a response every six seconds, coming to your worst moment. They're not worried about your political views or your religion or the color of your skin or any of these things. They're coming at your worst moment to rescue you. And they might be some of the most underrepresented, fought-for community in the U.S. right now and stuff. I mean, go all the way back to COVID timeframe and defund the police and everything else that was going on. And not a political statement there, but at the end of the day, like these men and women who are serving their communities, they're somebody's husband, they're somebody's mom, they're somebody's dad.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  These are real people and trying to do a job that honestly, in many respects, might be harder than in the military.

• 25:29Mike Rowe?

  Why'd you reach out to me?

• 25:32Speaker 01

  I reached out to you for several reasons.

• 25:35Mike Rowe?

  And let me preface it by saying, I, MicroWorks has grown. I'm very proud of what we've done, but in terms of scale, I, I'm a pimple on your, on your butt, right? We'll do 10 million this year. It's be our biggest year ever, but you know, we're only in this one lane. Your scholarships go wide.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  They do, but you do something and you have a platform that we do not. So we're having conversations with some of our big corporate partners. Okay. And these big corporate partners are going, hey Colonel, we want to support trade school only. And they're writing big checks for this. And it wasn't even the kids in trade school for the foundation was less than 1%. And that was tough, you know, because we're literally receiving more money than we can spend. And I started taking a look at like our website, our marketing. And, you know, when people think scholarships, what do you think they automatically think of? College and university, right? I mean, that's, that's the only place.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  And I'm like, we have to change this. And then I started doing the research on, okay, well, it's something like every five now retiring, there's maybe one replacing them and...

• 26:53Mike Rowe?

  1.8. It's closer to two, but yeah, the math doesn't work.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Which is scary, right? I mean, you're talking about something that you, you talk about a new pandemic. I mean, I don't know how many years it's going to be, but you know, once the roads can't be fixed and nobody's picking up the trash because there's no diesel mechanics to fix the trucks, I mean, you jump down those rabbit holes all day long. And so for us, I'm looking at it just going, hey, we still want to send these families to school, but let's solve some problems for the country at the same time. And then, you know, me and my corporate, head of corporate development, she and I were sitting around talking and she goes, hey, do you remember Mike Rowe did that song with John Rich? And I'm like, oh my God, they did, they did that song.

• 27:33Mike Rowe?

  You're kidding.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  No, no. So I text, I text JR and I said, hey, I said, I, I think I have a good idea. I would really like to be introduced to Mike Rowe. And I said, would you do that for me? And he goes, you know, and he's like, 100% Colonel. He goes, you just stand by. Well, and the funny thing was, I'm like, then I get a text back. He goes, hey, he goes, I need you to send a selfie video explaining what you want. And I'm reading the text and I'm sitting there and I'm just like, he's effing with me right now. I'm like, like there's like, I'm like, I'm like, okay. And so I'm like, all right, I got to stage this thing right. Like, you know, so, you know, I got a little ranch in Oklahoma, so I get out there. I didn't want you thinking I was some suit or something like that. So I'm like...

• 28:16Mike Rowe?

  Tulsa, right?

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Tulsa. So I film it, you know, I've got my tractor, my skid steer, my barn and chicken coop and all the other stuff in the background and stuff. And like I, I'm just going to go for it. I mean, I know no shame and I'll do anything for these families and stuff, but she hit me back right away.

• 28:32Mike Rowe?

  Uh huh.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so that, that felt good.

• 28:34Mike Rowe?

  Well, the truth is, John called me and started to explain what he thought you might want. And, you know, we got halfway through it and I'm like, this would be easier if I just...

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Heard from me.

• 28:45Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. And she's like, I'll do it. I'll do it, Mac. Hang on. Anyway, so then if I'm doing the math right, and you've got less than 1% of the people who have applied and who qualify for your help, and you've helped 77,000, so maybe, what, 7,000 have gone into the trades?

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Maybe, if that.

• 29:06Mike Rowe?

  Or is that 10? That's 10%.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  That's 10%. So it would be, you know, we're having, we have a record year this year. So I think we have close to like 8,000 qualified applicants for the trades, which is exciting and stuff. And that, and that's a, when I say trades, it's a pretty wide berth there.

• 29:22Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  But I think that, you know, I guess the, the narrative in the country and stuff like that, it's starting to shift a little bit now. I think kids are taking a little bit more of a look at this. But golly, we gotta change the narrative in the country. The schools gotta change the narrative.

• 29:39Mike Rowe?

  So you and I are gonna, I hate to throw the P word around, it's overused, but we're gonna kind of partner on a message in favor of the skilled trades. You're gonna help us with some of the donor money that's coming in that's earmarked for the trades.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 29:57Mike Rowe?

  And we're gonna help, I'm gonna start screaming more about what Folds of Honor is doing broadly. Chuck, can you put up MicroWorks for a sec? I don't know if you've been there recently, but I want to show you. We're, we're constantly tweaking our message and our site because, you know, the AI thing, it's so enormous and people, like not a day goes by where somebody doesn't call me, some reporter, somebody's trying to do a story and they're trying to figure out where the jobs are and nobody's got a crystal ball. But in general, there's just this sense that the biggest opportunities that are gonna come around in this $10 trillion infrastructure are gonna be those.

• 30:42Mike Rowe?

  They're gonna be AI-proof, six-figure jobs.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  100%.

• 30:46Mike Rowe?

  And that is as simple as I can distill it, you know? It's as simple as I can still. That's not to say that all jobs start with six figures, but we've had 3,500 people come through so far. And many of them, that's where they are and you get there quick. So I need to combine this sensibility with the site you just showed me. And then, yeah, you know, we should take a couple of days, go to New York, hit the shows, stir up some trouble.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Oh, 100%. And again, it's just, it's, it's changing the narrative in the country, right? And, you know, I was talking to somebody about this the other day. I'm a huge college football fan, right? I mean, I love college sports, you know, Saturday, college game day, all the other things. And if you think about all these kids in high school that are, you know, like juniors and seniors and they're looking at that, it's sexy, it's cool, right? And my guys is Disneyland, okay? That is not reality, right? And like on the backside of that thing, the goal is work, right? Raise a family, live the American dream, all these other things.

• 31:51Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  A lot has changed, okay? And, you know, what was there at one point, you know, likely AI is replacing that. But, you know, at the end of the day, AI is not gonna fix a water leak in your house, okay? They're not gonna come in and put a new condenser in your HVAC. That stuff just isn't gonna happen. And.

• 32:12Mike Rowe?

  Not in our life.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 32:14Mike Rowe?

  Not in the near term. I, I gotta say, I, I don't wanna bet against Elon Musk. And when Elon Musk talks about optimists, you know, performing kidney transplants in two and a half, three years, when he talks about the fact that most Americans will have healthcare in three years, he says, as good as the president currently has, thanks to these robots. A, I can't conceive of it. B, who am I to argue? So I don't really know how it's all gonna spin out, but man, in the short term, I know we're right about this. And did you hear, we were talking offline,

• 32:59Mike Rowe?

  but, you know, Michael Bloomberg the other day literally said, "Look, if you're halfway through college and you're majoring in graphic arts or you're majoring, he had like five or six majors, he's like, "Stop, get out, cut your losses. You're studying the wrong thing. That's not gonna help you. You can still get a broad-based liberal background, that's still valuable, but you shouldn't pay for it to that extent. And what you should learn is something that's in demand now."

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Oh, 100%. And, you know, at the end of the day, I think that, you know, you're probably not thinking about it when you're 21, 22 years old. You know, I just turned 59, obviously be 60 next year. The meaning of like freedom is financial freedom, okay? The ability to own a home and, you know, someday, you know, retire and retire with dignity. And the trades can get them there. I mean, it wasn't too long ago, I had this kid out because I can't fix an HVAC system and like in my barn, mini-split, just, it wasn't working.

• 33:59Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  This kid comes out, he's probably 20 years old, right? Runs his own business and stuff. So I always talk to him. And I'm like going, "All right, hey, why did you pick this?" and stuff. He goes, "Well," he goes, "I don't wanna go to college." I go, "Fair." And I'm like, "But why did you pick this?" He goes, "I just, I always liked working on stuff." And he goes, "Man, I got my own truck." He goes, "I can set my own hours." And he goes, "And quite honestly," he goes, "I can charge you whatever I want to." And I'm like, "That," I go, "That's fair," right? Because I can't do what you do, okay? And so he comes out, great kid, an hour, he's got things fixed, very fair price and all the other things. But I'm looking at him and just the, I'm like a little bit envious almost, just the freedom that he has, right? He, he drives away from there. It's like, you know what?

• 34:43Speaker 01

  My business, my office is in this truck and wherever I show up next.

• 34:52Mike Rowe?

  Please join me in thanking my good friends over at American Giant for continuing to prove that high-quality clothing can still be made in these United States for a fair price. American Giant's been doing that very thing now for over 15 years. So clearly, they know what they're doing. And what are they doing exactly? I'll tell you, they're sourcing locally grown cotton and they're building their factories in towns across the country where they can find and hire a local labor force that cares about making a quality product. It's simple. It's not easy, but it is simple. Consequently, when you buy a piece of clothing from American Giant, you're not just buying a sweatshirt or a T-shirt or another pair of jeans, you're investing in a local supply chain. I also want to thank them for putting the MicroWorks logo

• 35:37Mike Rowe?

  on a very limited line of tees and sweatshirts and donating the proceeds to my foundation. We're using that money right now to fund our next round of work ethic scholarships, and I appreciate that. Check out the high-quality staples, hoodies, T-shirts, denim, all built to be worn year after year at American-giant.com/mike. It's quality you can feel and a true American success story that you can be proud to support. Use code MIKE, get 20% off your first order at American-giant.com/mike.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  American Giant, American-made. American Giant, American-made.

• 36:22Mike Rowe?

  My job, at least in this world, is to make sure that kid's story gets told. It's good that you just told it, but the next, you know, he should be on a billboard. He should be interviewed. That interview should be blasted out through all the normal channels. There really is no, if you look at what an influencer is today, what do they do? They go, "Hey, check it out, America. Look what I'm wearing. Look what he's singing. Look what funny thing just happened. Look at these people scaring other people," which I have to admit, I love watching. I could suck down the rabbit hole. But if you can do that, you can just as easily say,

• 37:04Mike Rowe?

  "Get a load of this kid. 20 years old, charges what he wants, works when he feels like it."

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 37:09Mike Rowe?

  He just drove out to a barn, fixed an HVAC unit for a guy that spent nearly 30 years on our behalf getting shot at and shooting back. And he can't do what he's doing.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  No. You know, some of the, you know, the unspoken heroes in the military, you know, I had the privilege my last four years, I mean, I was still flying the jet, but I was the maintenance group commander, okay? And so like every, I mean, these, you know, these are the folks working on an F-16. It's like maintaining a NASCAR. I mean, it is super high maintenance, all the other things, but the level of brilliance and passion with this team was unbelievable. And trust me, my wife will remind me, the irony does not escape me that I was the, the head of the maintenance group, right? Because, you know, I didn't even know where the oil went, all right? And, but watching the pride that these men and women took

• 38:02Speaker 01

  in being able to get these airplanes ready on a zero-fail mission to get things out the door, you know, to serve the cause of this country was probably one of the most rewarding things that I was ever able to do in the military and, and lead them and stuff. And I'm like, you know what? I just need to step back and keep all the BS off of them and let them do what they do. Because they're, they were unbelievable. I mean, they're just unreal.

• 38:28Mike Rowe?

  What is the typical relationship between a fighter pilot and the maintenance crew? Like what didn't I see in Top Gun? What isn't portrayed in most films that, you know, you only have so much time, you're gonna tell your narrative and you're gonna find your hero and you're gonna find your villain? But what are we missing?

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it'd be funny to have somebody from maintenance come on here because they would love to tell you a bunch of stories about fighter pilots because we're really good at breaking stuff. But I think on my end as a fighter pilot, the unbelievable amount of trust that I had in them that I'm getting ready to, you know, strap my ass to a rocket, hurl myself into the night with, you know, 2,000 pounds of explosive ordinance, you know, 15,000 pounds of JP-8 in a single engine by myself. And I need, I have trust that all the things that you guys do.

• 39:19Mike Rowe?

  Just giving goosebumps, man. That's great.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  In between, everything is gonna bring me home and they always did. Especially, you know, with the crew chief and the crew chiefs are the guys that you see out in front of the airplane that, you know, I mean, doing all your checks and all that stuff and they're doing all the cool hand signals and everything else. And Top Gun kind of made those guys famous and appropriately so. That's a special relationship, right? And the last thing that they would do as you're, as we're pulling out of the chocks. And I mean, we're getting ready to, you know, light all five stages of afterburner, go down the runway and stuff. The last thing that they do is they hit you with a sharp salute and tap the wingtip. It's so cool. It's a, that's a special trust relationship and I just love those men and women for what they did.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  I mean, they're covered in JPA and oil and all the other things and stuff and truly the unsung heroes.

• 40:12Mike Rowe?

  Were you on a carriers?

• 40:14Speaker 01

  No, so no carriers for the air force, right? Thank God. I like a good-

• 40:17Mike Rowe?

  That's all Navy, right?

• 40:18Speaker 01

  That's all Navy Marines. So I like me a nice 10, 12,000 foot runway, Mike and stuff, you know?

• 40:24Mike Rowe?

  I mean, there must've been occasions though, in the history of things when, you know, fog of war, some air force pilot somewhere needs to land on a carrier for some reason.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe back in like, you know, World War II timeframe and stuff like that. Like I think we'd rip the landing gear off the F-16. We tried to put it on an aircraft carrier.

• 40:44Mike Rowe?

  Somebody should make that, that'd be a great scene in a movie. Like for, you know, a guy like you with all that experience to suddenly have to land. Cause that's a whole different set of muscles.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  A whole different ballgame. I mean, and it was, uh, I was never jealous of the, like the Navy and Marine Corps pilots in country, like even though like we were living in Iraq and Afghanistan, so getting shelled every night and stuff like that, they still had to go back at night and land on a pitching-

• 41:09Mike Rowe?

  In the dark.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Boat deck. I'm going-

• 41:11Mike Rowe?

  It's doing this.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I said, I'll, I'll take getting shot at. That seems safer.

• 41:15Mike Rowe?

  Oh God, I did a couple of days on the Stennis. Probably 10 years ago now. And, uh, you know, they let me wear every color shirt. They let me touch everything. They showed us everything. It was like the golden ticket and I had the docent of all guides and they literally let me do every, even took off at the end in a, in a jet, which was amazing.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 41:43Mike Rowe?

  But the camaraderie that you see below decks among that group of people who are tending, right? It's, I've never seen it accurately portrayed on the big or the small screen. I've seen everything from the fighter pilot's perspective, but I haven't seen enough of that. Even, okay, you're better still in your world. We did a, a segment at Hutchinson.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:14Mike Rowe?

  KC 135R, those Stratotankers. And it was the same thing, those tank rats. Oh yeah, that's on the, uh, that's on the Stennis. That was a good one. Yeah, they, they literally let me just fucking do everything. It was ridiculous.

• 42:33Mike Rowe?

  It's so loud, Nick, at night. Like when they're doing these touch and goes.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:38Mike Rowe?

  Like my bunk was right under the runway, which of course they did on purpose, just to keep me up all night.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 42:43Mike Rowe?

  Bastards. But it's just so, look at that.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  Well, just the dynamics and the orchestration of everything and the timing and what has to happen and when it has to happen.

• 42:57Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  I don't know what any of the color means on the, on the boat there.

• 43:01Mike Rowe?

  Well, it's pretty strict, you know? I mean, it's, everything's codified and you know, if you're wearing this color, you're doing one specific thing and yikes. See if you can find the Hutch thing. There's probably something on YouTube from Dirty Jobs.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  The Hutch?

• 43:16Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. Uh, KC 135 Stratotankers, tank racks, Dirty Jobs. That should come up somewhere, but yeah, man, crawling up in the wings of those things. And they let us swap out a, a bladder.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Oh, a fuel bladder.

• 43:33Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. Like a fuel cell. I thought in those, I just thought it was a giant bladder that held the fuel, but it's actually in the wings. It filled like every square inch is filled with the most combustible fluid there is. You gotta be so careful, like no, no sparks, no static electricity.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  No, nothing. And you know, and if it wasn't for, you know, uh, my brothers and sisters over there in the KC 135s and the KC 10s and everything else. I mean, we're not going to war by ourselves in an F-16. I mean, they're like, so when we would leave, I mean, we're with the tankers all the way from, you know, the US all the way until we get into theater, whether that was Iraq or Afghanistan.

• 44:16Mike Rowe?

  What's the longest flight you've taken courtesy of multiple refuelings along the way?

• 44:22Speaker 01

  My longest was 14 hours in a single seat.

• 44:26Mike Rowe?

  In a single seat?

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, just sit there for 14 hours and think about not going to the bathroom.

• 44:32Mike Rowe?

  I mean, how do you think about not going to the bathroom when you're going to the bathroom?

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 44:37Mike Rowe?

  Do you guys have like, are you equipped with a stadium pal or something or?

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So we, we had these bags that were affectionately called piddle packs and they had this substance in there. I didn't know what it was, but you know, after you used it, it turned into some sort of like yellow gel and stuff. Probably not good for you, um, but that was how you did that, right? And, uh, if anything else needed to happen, you were just S O L, literally. Yeah, I just, that can't happen.

• 45:08Mike Rowe?

  I asked an astronaut the same question, you know, how they were dealing with it on the space station. It's elaborate. I mean, you basically crapping in zero gravity is really just a whole, it's, you know? And again, not in Top Gun. We don't see Tom Cruise figuring out, you know?

• 45:27Speaker 01

  No.

• 45:27Mike Rowe?

  We were just just like, we're just gonna gloss over that. We're gonna gloss over the maintenance.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:31Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's definitely a sexy aspect to being a fighter pilot and stuff, but that's 10% of the job. I mean, the 90% of it just probably isn't that sexy.

• 45:42Mike Rowe?

  How and when do you know what you're going to be flying? Like if you could, I, you're probably sick of telling your own story, but I'm curious about how you, what the education looked like, what the prep looked like and how you wind up in an F-16 as opposed to a 135.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Right? So, um, for me, you know, the passion for me from a time I was a little kid, that is the only thing I ever wanted to go do. I wanted to go be an AD, right? I mean, he's my hero. I want to go be a fighter pilot. That's all I could ever even think about. I was an okay student, okay? I mean, it wasn't tearing it up in high school or anything else. Sure wasn't tearing it up in college by any stretch of the imagination.

• 46:25Mike Rowe?

  What's that mean? What's your GPA?

• 46:27Speaker 01

  So I had like a 3.2 GPA. So I, I mean, I wasn't like miserable or anything else and stuff.

• 46:33Mike Rowe?

  Solid C plus, be modest.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you know? And, um, but I mean, that was always, that was the target, right? So I was in Air Force ROTC in college, did all that, graduated, married and then, um, and then up to, uh, Ballast State University.

• 46:48Mike Rowe?

  Deave all those.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like Harvard, but different. And, uh, um, you know, way in South Georgia.

• 46:56Mike Rowe?

  Sure.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so you, you hear the Florida, Georgia line, that's it, right? And it's where rednecks come from. Um, and, uh, so graduated from there, ended up being a great school, great ROTC program and stuff. And then, um, I get selected, the base I wanted to go to was Euro Nato Joint Jet Pilot Training. That was at Shepherd Air Force Base in Step 2. That was the fighter pilot track. Okay? So I ended up being one of 63 guys in Air Force ROTC all across the nation. They got selected, uh, to go to this. And Mike, I remember, so mind you, I graduated from college with a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice, yes. Why Criminal Justice? And I go, because that degree had no math, okay? Is why I picked it.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  And so I'm showing up and I remember, you know, and I'm, I'm a, I'm 22 years old, brand new married, right? I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm meeting all these guys and, uh, and stuff. And they're all talking about, well, you know, I just finished up my master's degree at MIT and I had 2,000 hours in this and all the other things and stuff. And we get back to our little hotel room and I look at my wife, I go, I think I'm, I don't think I'm supposed to be here. And-

• 48:09Mike Rowe?

  You got in the wrong line, honey.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  I got in the wrong line. Uh, but the one thing that I could always count on with myself, I was like going, yeah, there's always gonna be somebody smarter, better looking, stronger, all the things and stuff like that. Uh, but you're damn sure not gonna outwork me. Okay? And that was what I put my mind to. And what I recognized, um, and some of my fighter pilot bros might disagree with this in Step 2, um, being a good fighter pilot was more of an art than it was a science. Okay? Is learning the environment, how the jet feels, how the jet sounds and all these other things. Once I learned that, um, the level of competence I had and everything else, and it just, it just didn't matter. And you know, a lot of those guys with the, with the pedigrees and all the other things, they didn't, they didn't make it.

• 48:58Mike Rowe?

  I'd like to talk about initiative if I could for just a moment. Here at MicroWorks, we value it a great deal. In fact, it's the most important quality we look for in our work ethic scholarship applicants. But everybody wants it. I'm talking about the, uh, the quality in a lift driver that inspires him or her to carry your bags to the door without even asking, or the grocery clerk who shows you where an item is on the shelves, or a doctor who personally calls you to explain your test results. If you're hiring, you want to encourage initiative because it's invaluable. And ZipRecruiter has a way to allow a candidate to tell you in their own words, why they're interested in your job, not just why they're qualified, but why they're interested.

• 49:43Mike Rowe?

  This is a way that allows the best candidates to distinguish themselves from the competition and a great way for you to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were. Right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/row. ZipRecruiter is the number one hiring site in large part because of this new initiative that shows you the most interested, qualified candidates first. So you meet the right people faster. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within one day. Try it for free. ZipRecruiter.com/row. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Sooner meet your match at ZipRecruiter. Try it free.

• 50:32Mike Rowe?

  Huh. Too much science, not enough art, not enough feel.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Not enough feel, maybe a little bit of arrogance walking into it. Um, I was as, I didn't need to be humbled. I mean, I was scared to death walking in there because I'm, you know, you're looking at it from my perspective. Like it wasn't just, that's what I wanted to go do. Um, but this heavy responsibility of carrying on the family name. Right?

• 50:53Mike Rowe?

  Cause you're third generation.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Third generation and you know, old man was, you know, Vietnam war hero, you know, silver star, purple hearts, you know, I just, all these things and stuff. And to be honest with you, uh, Mike, again, as a brand new, you know, newlywed and stuff, I didn't have backup plan. I'm like, it was, that was it. Like, I didn't have like, hey, this didn't work out, you know, I, you know, there's job at the mill or whatever. No, nothing. I mean, there was, I had nothing and.

• 51:21Mike Rowe?

  What'd your granddad do?

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Uh, so my granddad on my mom's side was a pilot. And then my granddad on my dad's side, who's his adoptive, uh, dad was a navigator in the air force.

• 51:34Mike Rowe?

  So always, always in the air with you guys.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Always in the air and uh, it's kind of neat. Like, you know, uh, pretty much every male above me, like in the family tree and stuff, served in some capacity. Uh, just recently lost my uncle who was a, uh, uh, Gulf War one, uh, vet, army ranger and stuff. And so, uh, you know, proud, proudly serve, uh, super cool.

• 51:58Mike Rowe?

  Sidebar, but that's, oh God, that's gotta be 18, 19 years ago. And that, forgive me, that little girl just kicked my ass. That hole, I just don't know how I'm going to fit through that hole. If you're not watching folks and just listening, we're looking up into the wing of a KC 135, a Strato tanker. And I got oxygen hooked up to me. That is one of the most uncomfortable, inhospitable environments. And I'd never seen it portrayed anywhere ever. But these guys, these tank rats, they just crawl

• 52:39Mike Rowe?

  around and bend their bodies into, it's just unspeakable positions and do things out of sight, out of mind, that build and protect freedom every day. And we just, we just fricking don't know.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 52:58Mike Rowe?

  Nobody knows.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  No. And like, it's funny you're bringing up the fuels guys, cause I remember, uh, again, back when I was the maintenance group commander, I was with our fuels guy. And they're like, oh, hey, let's, let's show you what we do. And I'm like, okay, great. And like, okay, that's the big airplane. F-16 is not a big airplane. And they were showing me this area, you know, in one of our fuel bladders and stuff. And the guy looks at me, goes, I'll be right back. And he's, I'm like, you're going in there? He goes, sir, I have to, because we have to inspect all these areas and stuff like that. And I go, you know what? I thought this job was the worst job, but you win. You went hands down. But just the, the amount of like, like, I just like, it's making me claustrophobic, just sitting there looking at that. Like, you might as well go cave diving or something.

• 53:39Mike Rowe?

  Now that, no.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  No. Uh-uh.

• 53:43Mike Rowe?

  No, that, that's the craziest thing you can do underwater. And anytime there's a platform over your head, it is just the risk profile goes off the page and the actuarials just go, well, look, we're not, we're not going to insure you.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:59Mike Rowe?

  At all. You know, Andy Stumpf?

• 54:02Speaker 01

  I do know Andy. Yeah.

• 54:03Mike Rowe?

  No kidding?

• 54:03Speaker 01

  I do. Yeah. Yeah.

• 54:05Mike Rowe?

  He, he sat there yesterday.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Oh, did he really?

• 54:08Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. Yeah. He flew in from Montana.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Well, I'm definitely washing my shirt now.

• 54:12Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. You got a little Gene Simmons and a little Andy Stumpf on you. A lot of DNA in that chair. But no, he, um, you know, that knucklehead, wing suits, base jumping.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. No.

• 54:25Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. After we talked, Chuck, I Googled and looked around to.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:30Mike Rowe?

  It is hands down the most dangerous thing you can do for fun.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. He's unbelievable. I mean, obviously, you know, American hero and, and uh, so I know several tier one guys and uh, and stuff. And we'll, you know, we're always sitting around swapping stories and everything. I always lose, right? Like we're, we're talking about like, we were sitting around and I was talking about like in my, like my contact was bothering me or something like that. And, you know, I was like, man, I gotta get this thing out of my eye. Then one of my buddies, tier one operator goes, oh man. He goes, that's sort of like, you know, when I was in Afghanistan and we were going in this building and a IED blew up. And you know, the building came down on top of me and my eyeball was hanging out of my eye socket. I go, that is not at all, at all the same, but thanks for one upping me on the story.

• 55:14Mike Rowe?

  Here's some Visine. Here, here. It'll be fine. Yeah. You know, I had a science teacher who told me he got into science because when he was a kid, he was walking home and these guys were playing like paddle ball against the wall. And the ball came off at a crazy angle and hit this kid in the side of the face, right on the very edge of his eye. Hard, hard enough to knock his eye out of the socket and landed on his cheek.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Oh geez.

• 55:46Mike Rowe?

  And a paramedic who just happened to be in the area ran over and put the guy's eye back in. The optic nerve was still attached, took him to the hospital, just fixed him up, just fine. So yet you, you just never know what moment, like what inciting incident is going to send, Mr. Newberry was his name. He was like, I was so amazed that you could actually still see out of your eye when it's out of its socket.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 56:15Mike Rowe?

  I mean, it's like, that's a, that's a kick. You pick it up and turn it around and look behind your head. He goes, I, I have no choice. I have to become a scientist. And he did.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  That's unreal.

• 56:24Mike Rowe?

  That's, you know.

• 56:27Mike Rowe?

  What was your inciting incident? Like was, I mean, aside from the fact that you come to this, you know, genetically, was there a moment where you knew that you were abs, like, like the die was cast, you had to do it?

• 56:43Speaker 01

  I did. I think, um, I think, you know, like through high school and college and stuff, I'm like, you know, as mindful that this is the thing and stuff. I think it was probably, uh, my first combat tour that, I mean, solidified everything for me. Because you know, as a young fighter pilot, man, you're just, I mean, you're full of piss and vinegar and stuff like that. And you have, like, never been to war, have no idea what you're talking about and stuff. And so this is all the way back in 96. So this is after the first Gulf War. Okay. So we have set up no fly zones in both southern and northern Iraq. And I'm deploying from, um, stationed in Japan at Masawa airbase, and we're deploying from Japan to go to Saudi to, uh, enforce the southern no fly zone.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  As we are en route, uh, getting there, uh, the Cobart tower bombings happen. Okay. And I don't know if everybody remembers this. I believe it was 19 airmen, uh, who lost their lives that day. And, uh, it was a truck pulled up, fence perimeter, run to way, lights off the, you know, cacks off the IED. And, um, you know, drops to the face of the building and, uh, several airmen are dead. And so we hear about this as we're en route. And I remember when we get there, um, you know, out of respect, you know, wanted to go over and see where this happened and stuff. Not, you know, not for some just, you know, sick reason or anything like that. It really felt like a term of respect.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  And I remember as we were going over there, Mike, I looked down and there was bloody footprints on the ground. And it hit me right away. I go, that's American blood on foreign soil. Those airmen just, you know, a couple of weeks ago were, you know, cutting up, talking about going back home and everything else. And now they paid the ultimate sacrifice for this country. And it kind of flips a switch in me. And that switch was it about me. Okay. You know, my job during the entire war in Iraq and Afghanistan, uh, was to make sure that 18, 19 year old kid with a rifle came home. That's it. I mean, I was there as air cover. I was there to do whatever I could do so they could come home and stuff.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  And that, I remember it was kind of a seminal moment in my life where I just went, okay, what you're doing is way bigger than you. Yeah. You may think you're cool fighter pilot, all this other stuff happened and everything else, but this is the real mission now.

• 59:04Mike Rowe?

  So interesting. You think about fighter pilots as aggressor and right, the tip of the spear, but you're saying basically your job was to protect.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  It was to protect. So, you know, but the, you know, my mission for over 20 years, uh, you know, either going to Iraq or Afghanistan was close air support. So, you know, we'd be assigned an area of responsibility. We would check in with, you know, it could be army, marine corps, it could be Delta guys, could be Navy SEALs, no matter who it is. And my job was to provide air cover for them and kill bad guys who were trying to kill them.

• 59:42Mike Rowe?

  So is what I read about the whole like the cat and mouse games that unfolded in those no-fly zones during that period, that was, that's really a thing?

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was real, you know, so every once in a while, an Iraqi MiG would poke their nose across the no-fly zone and then of course, I mean, it was just like the, you know, Song of the Valkyrie coming, you know, at them and stuff. They quickly turn around and, and go back in and, and stuff. And they would take, not from their aircraft, but they would take potshots at us with, you know, anti-aircraft artillery and unguided service air missiles and on occasion and stuff like that.

• 1:00:20Mike Rowe?

  Worrisome?

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Uh, not really. I mean, you're

• 1:00:23Mike Rowe?

  It's annoying to be shot at as a, as a rule.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  It is, but it wasn't, you know, I would never compare it to, you know, brothers and sisters in like Vietnam and stuff we're dealing with or anything like that. It was mostly indirect fire that, you know, wasn't radar guided or anything like that, pretty easy to avoid and everything else. And then unfortunately for them, they go, oh, okay, well, there's your SAM site and bye. And so we'd make the SAM sites go away or the AAA site go away after that. It's almost like, it sounds sick, but you're like, okay, shoot at us so we know where you are. Okay, there you are.

• 1:00:55Mike Rowe?

  How satisfying is that?

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  It's pretty satisfying, right? You know, and, uh, not, you know, you take killing seriously, right? You want to do the job the right way and everything else, but you chose to shoot at me. I wasn't shooting at you. Uh, we're here enforcing the no-fly zone. If you just hang out there and be quiet, y'all will leave you alone. Uh, but you just, you know, shot a massive SA whatever at me. And so we're gonna make that go away now.

• 1:01:23Mike Rowe?

  And for that, you must die.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  For that, you must die.

• 1:01:25Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, the most satisfying stuff, I'll be perfectly honest with you, was when, you know, it was true close air support, all the stuff after nine 11 and was making, was being there to, the satisfaction of getting guys out of bad situations, right? You know, so we were literally the angels in the air, uh, coming in, flying close air support, you know, doing stuff like, you know, dropping bombs, shooting the gun danger close to these guys and stuff like that. And just the, the level of trust and respect that they had for us, uh, was endearing. And, uh, and then, you know, the amount of love and respect that we had back towards them and stuff, just, you know, making sure that they could come home. And, I mean, even during the rough times, like, you know, uh, Iraq oh five oh

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  seven, you know, during the height of the surge in Fallujah and that type of stuff, lost a lot of Marines and everything else. In fact, you know, we were stationed in country and I mean, you were hearing the helicopters on a nightly basis and that was never a good thing.

• 1:02:21Mike Rowe?

  You remember, uh, Keating?

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:25Mike Rowe?

  Clint Romesche. You know his book?

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  No, I don't.

• 1:02:28Mike Rowe?

  Red Platoon.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:30Mike Rowe?

  He was awarded the Medal of Honor for that. He went back in there and got his buddies out who, you know, had died, uh, in it. But it's just such a, there's just so many stories. I couldn't even begin to, I'm just around the periphery of it. You must be so tired on the one hand of answering questions about that 30-year run. I'm just sitting here trying to ask you something that you haven't been asked before, but how about this? Oh, there's Clint's story. Yeah.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  Medal of Honor recipient.

• 1:03:08Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  That's on my reading list now.

• 1:03:10Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, he's great. And like so many of those guys, awkward. You know what I mean?

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:20Mike Rowe?

  Like I asked Andy about this the other day too, you know, he's got five Bronze Stars or whatever. It's awkward, you know, they don't quite know where to put that or how to talk about it after the fact. And they're honored and it's flattering, but I, you know, maybe the guilt of making it back.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  You know, I think that's, maybe that's part of it and stuff. I mean, I think for a lot of us, for me, um, you know, the best thing that I can do for my brother and sisters who, you know, who did make it back home, um, was to not forget that I did make it back home and to live each and every day, uh, in honor and worthy of that sacrifice, if you will, you know, kind of an earning kind of thing, like you heard at the end of Saving Private Ryan, right? Um, but I think it's not, it's so much, um, there's a certain level of value in, you know, whether you were a tier one operator or fighter pilot, you know, you got, you know, the folks who are at the tip of the spear, right? The ones who are fighting the fight. There's a certain nobility in silence and not wanting to be

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  the, uh, you know, the hey, look at me, pat me on the back, you know, whatever it might be, right? But what I've learned is that this country, after 20-plus years of global war on terrorism, has become completely desensitized to war, right? And it's too easy to send those people because they're not going.

• 1:04:43Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  And when you hear these stories, you hear about the, you know, the battle for Fallujah, you hear all of these things, all of the heroism, the horrible circumstances in which they were existing in these countries and in a modern military and stuff. I'm like, I'm like, people need to know that shit. I mean, you need to, you need to hear it. You may not like hearing it and stuff like that, but you need, you need to hear it. And so, um, so it's a little bit of a pivot, right? And, you know, I'm, I'm thankful that, you know, guys like an Andy Stumpf or any of these folks will, you know, come out and start, and start talking about it because the country needs to hear it. This isn't just something that you watched on occasion on CNN or Fox or something like that. These are real 18,

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  19, 20-year-old kids, okay? Who, oh, by the way, they're not being pulled out of the rich universities and all the other things. These are kids who are looking for something else in life and, you know, let's say, hey, I'm gonna go fight for my country. And, uh, man, it would just be a huge disservice to them if we didn't tell these stories.

• 1:05:44Mike Rowe?

  Well, look, that's, it's a great point. And I, I wish I had, had thought to articulate it that well yesterday with Andy, because we were talking about his podcast and he wanted to know what I thought about the whole ecosystem of, you know, what I call Podcast Landia. It's so noisy right now. And is there room? Yeah, there is room. And it's imperative that guys like that fill it. I mean, Sean Ryan too.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:06:10Mike Rowe?

  Right? Um, I finally got a chance to meet him, did his show a couple of weeks ago.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  Oh, good for you.

• 1:06:15Mike Rowe?

  Guy gave me a, gave me a Sig Sour as a gift with a frickin' suppressor on it.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:06:23Mike Rowe?

  That's 17 clip. I mean, like, it's not even legal in this state. I don't even know how I'm gonna get it here. I'll talk to you offline about this, but

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Too late.

• 1:06:31Mike Rowe?

  Too late now. No, it's, um,

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  I'll keep it for you in Oklahoma.

• 1:06:35Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, right. I'll just, I'll just run out to Tulsa every time I need some last minute assistance. But he, um, it struck me too, the fact that guys like that can now have a platform.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:52Mike Rowe?

  And invite other men and women in who have been there and done it, who, look, I don't know what they have to say, but I know they need to have a seat at the table. And I know we need to pay attention way more than we are because you, as you said, it's less than a half a percent.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:07:12Mike Rowe?

  Of this population is 100% responsible for every good thing we have. And a lot of them are, are jacked up and broken and wounded in ways we can't see and trying to figure out what's next. Cause boot camp does a pretty great job, but we have no reverse boot camp, really.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  Now, can you imagine, like, it's, and I've talked to some of my, you know, tier one buddies and, and just, you know, uh, and I'm certainly not comparing myself to them by any stretch of the imagination, but it's like, you get to the point where, you know, you're retiring or, you know, you're at, you're into service or whatever, you don't want to re-up or anything and stuff. And it's sort of like a, okay, pat on the butt, out the front gate and good luck, right? And that is the wrong answer. Okay? And, uh, and we're seeing that now, right? You know, we still have, what is it? You know, 19 to 21 veterans a day committing suicide and stuff. And, um, it is, uh, it's an epidemic and, um, it's not been addressed properly.

• 1:08:18Mike Rowe?

  How does Folds of Honor handle that?

• 1:08:24Mike Rowe?

  I mean, is part of your mission somehow touching that?

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  So, yes, I mean, so if, you know, if it is a, you know, veteran or first responder, you know, who have, you know, who have committed suicide, we consider that the combat loss, right? And stuff in those families are going to be taken care of, but that's not enough. And so one that we have partnered, and I'll keep the partner's name silent because they want to be, but we have a mental health initiative. And so, so mental health care 24/7 access is available to all our military and first responder families at zero cost. Okay? So they can pick up the phone anytime of day, and that includes any member of their family, right? It's a, it's a start. Okay? It's not, is it complete? Probably not. You

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  know, we're learning more and more as things go by and stuff. And, you know, certainly, you're not going to sit here and, you know, speak ill of the VA or anything else. But, you know, the initiatives thus far aren't solving the problem.

• 1:09:26Mike Rowe?

  There's room to improve.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. Yep.

• 1:09:29Mike Rowe?

  On a fairly exponential.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:31Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. All right. We'll circle back to that. Let's get back to you for a minute. Do F-16s, F-35s, do they get shot in combat today and survive? Historically, you see dogfights and you see planes taking all this flak and they're still flying. But given the ordinance and the nature of it today, what's survivable?

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Golly, it's, you know, for an F-16, obviously a motor hit, you know, single engine, you're done. You know, massive fuel leak, probably not going to make it back. Those type of things. Obviously it hits the cockpit, hits the pilot, those type of areas. So my brother's in the A-10, you know, they could probably take a lot more damage. Oh, no, they could take a lot more damage.

• 1:10:17Mike Rowe?

  Is that the Warthog?

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  It's the Warthog, right? Yeah. Those guys, and, you know, incredible at what they did in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unbelievable close air support asset and stuff and could take a beating, right? More so than we could. We can get somewhere a lot faster than they can. But yeah, you know, survivability, I would say that it's not like an F-16 or an F-35, F-18, anything like that. Not, you know, wouldn't call it a fragile piece of machinery and stuff like that. But, you know, there's only so many bullet holes you can take and then, you know, you're going to start leaking fuel, something electric isn't going to work anymore. And then, you know, you kind of got to give the jet back to the taxpayers at that point. Ejected.

• 1:10:56Mike Rowe?

  As is.

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  As is. Sorry, guys.

• 1:10:58Mike Rowe?

  Have you ejected?

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  I have not. I've been very close, but I have, I did not. I got plenty of bros who did. And listening to their experience was something I never wanted to do, which is why when my tier one buddies are always giving me a hard time, like, hey, man, come do a tandem jump with me. I'm like, no.

• 1:11:15Mike Rowe?

  What is tier one exactly? How does one qualify?

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  So think tier one guys, think like, you know, Delta guys, SEAL Team Six guys, tier one. Yeah. So these were, you know, the guys on the, you know, the president's call list kind of guys. Yeah. You know, the elite of the elite.

• 1:11:34Mike Rowe?

  Where are you? We like tier two-ish?

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  Eight or nine.

• 1:11:38Mike Rowe?

  How many tiers are there?

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Well, when we say tier one operators, I don't think there's a tier two, tier three. You're just talking about these guys who are at the pinnacle of the game, you know, and stuff. And so, and really applies to, you know, these hard work and guys over in, you know, Delta and the SEAL teams.

• 1:11:57Mike Rowe?

  How many missions did you fly?

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  So I ended up with the point, well, not necessarily you want to hit, but sort of the celebratory point for a fighter pilot is your 100th mission. So I ended up flying 104 combat missions throughout my career, which was, I don't even know that, you know, and it was in, that happened in my last tour, which was in Afghanistan in 2013 and stuff. You kind of hit that mark and sort of unremarkable at the time and stuff. But then you can kind of look back on it and it's sort of like, it's just like, okay, check that. And, you know, it's like, little anticlimactic kind of thing. And, you know, the bigger point is I got to come home.

• 1:12:40Mike Rowe?

  We asked AI some questions.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  This is why I don't Google myself, Mike. I don't want to know what the interwebs say about me.

• 1:12:49Mike Rowe?

  No, it's not about you. It's just, you know, it's me being lazy going, you know, what has he probably not been asked? Let's see. You've spent years helping families after tragedy. What's the most hopeful thing you've learned about people when they're at their lowest point?

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  I think that probably the most hopeful thing is, is it, it doesn't take a whole lot to reach your hand out and go, let me help. And, you know, when you're willing to do that, it can transform somebody's life and stuff. I mean, even just the simplest things and stuff to just, you know, just smiling at somebody and saying hi, you know, and as opposed to having your head down and, and doing your thing and stuff. And, and you can, you know, I don't know how to measure that, honestly. It's just being a good person, you know, and just like, hey, I, there's, I have a platform. I can do something here, right? I can like, I can't help all of them, but man, I can help that one. I can make

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  a change there. You never know what a kind word, a small gesture, you know, tipping the stressed out waitress just a little bit more where that might go.

• 1:14:04Mike Rowe?

  What's a sacrifice military families make that never shows up in movies, books or speeches?

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  I think it's the financial sacrifice. That's the tough one, right?

• 1:14:13Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  And nobody gets in this business because you're going to get rich being in the military by any stretch of the imagination. If that's your goal, you need to go do something else because you're not going to get it done there. You know, a lot of dual income families, you know, the, the service member gone all the time and stuff too. Tough on mom, you know, daycare, all those things and stuff. But so I think there's, there's a significant, you know, financial burden that occurs that, that probably isn't talked about a whole lot. I mean, all the salaries, everything else, they're all, you know, there for the public to see. But yeah, you know, it's, I'm not sitting here advocating for C-suite salaries or, or anything like that. But just, you know, the understanding that, you know,

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  hey, like, nobody's, nobody's in it for the money. Okay?

• 1:15:02Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, there's some nice benefits and those type of things, and those things should be in place. But there can be a significant financial burden there.

• 1:15:10Mike Rowe?

  Well, the words you used before that I think is kind of important is dignity.

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:16Mike Rowe?

  It's the dignity of, of work in general. And this comes up a lot in my world because, you know, a lot of the country thinks about a dignified job through the lens of the circumstances of the work. So it's dignified if, you know, it's, if, if the conditions are comfortable, if you get a decent lunch break, maybe you got some nice perks, maybe, you know, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, I think the people who really know, dignified work is work that benefits someone else.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:15:51Mike Rowe?

  And that's first responder one of one. And that's the guts of a, of a volunteer military. You have to be there. I guess you don't have to, but by and large, you know that the risk you're assuming will benefit others.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And, you know, and I think, and of course I can't, you know, my, my oldest daughter was a firefighter. So, you know, I can somewhat relate to my first responder families and stuff. But I think on the military side, you know, what was, what was neat for us is this, is that none of it for us was ever about like, you know, asking the questions like, why are we here? You know, and like, and all the things, right?

• 1:16:38Mike Rowe?

  You know why you're there.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, we know. Like all the geopolitical whatever and the politics associated with going to war, which are always, which there always is. You know, the focus again was so like myopic and so simple and stuff like that too. And it sounds a little bit cliche, but the only thing that I cared about was them.

• 1:16:56Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it. I mean, like you get there, you get in theater, you go, okay, we're back again. You know, you're breathing the air again, the smells, the sights, the sounds and, and all those other things. And it just flips that switch in you and stuff. And none of that other stuff matters. But there was a kind of a beautiful simplicity in it, in the sense that I am here again, and I know I've said this earlier, is that that kid's coming home today. Like whatever I do while I'm here, that kid's coming home.

• 1:17:26Mike Rowe?

  If that feels that good, tell me if I'm wrong, but it's probably because it went the other way more than once. And you know what it feels when you couldn't save them?

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. A hundred percent. And, you know, those are the times where you walk away from it. And I'm, I'm happy to share one story in particular, but where you go, you know what? I did everything right and I still failed.

• 1:17:57Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, that, share that one because that kind of guilt is the kind that breaks my heart because you did everything you could do.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:05Mike Rowe?

  And it doesn't matter.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter, right?

• 1:18:08Mike Rowe?

  You gotta, I don't know how you shake it off, but tell me the story.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, so there's, you know, nothing in Iraq or Afghanistan was a cookie cutter, right? You know, every situation, every time we went kinetic, you know, that kinetic means, you know, some type of ordinance is coming off the airplane.

• 1:18:24Mike Rowe?

  Game on.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  It was game on, right? And things get complicated quick. You know, comms get screwed up. Somebody didn't get the right crypto that day or whatever. I mean, there's a million of one things that can go wrong and stuff. And then it's just sort of like, you know, was it, you know, Mike Tyson who said, everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the face, right?

• 1:18:42Mike Rowe?

  How do you say it, Chuck, exactly?

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Game plan until you get punched in the faith. That was way better than the way I said it. Thank you, Chuck.

• 1:18:51Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  And so, um, 2013, uh, Afghanistan, right? And, uh, we, uh, you know, it was, let me, uh, I don't want to make this too long, but let me back up just a little bit. Um, so this is, uh, my now seventh combat deployment, right? And, um, the, and I'd kind of told my wife that number six was last one and stuff. I was getting towards it, you know, a few years of retirement and stuff like that, but.

• 1:19:20Mike Rowe?

  So 13, that's Southern Afghanistan. That's Helmand.

• 1:19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was in the Helmand province. Yeah. And that's where we ended up, you know, but I remember like, one of the things that I like to share with people is this, is like, and probably here's another unwritten story, right? And, uh, you never left at convenient times in the military, right? So I had to be out at the base at, you know, one o'clock in the morning. Okay. Uh, middle of the night, thunderstorms, and we're getting ready to fly, you know, 12 F16s across the Atlantic Ocean at night. And so the picture now is me in my living room. Okay. I'm there with my wife and my three kids and my oldest at the time, Hannah is 19 and they go all the way down to about six years old. And, uh, so you're doing all the things, man. You're, you

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  know, you're, you know, trying to stay strong for them, um, hugging, kissing, doing all the things that you do and stuff like that. And one of the commitments, uh, that my wife and I have, uh, and who is like literally the strongest person I know, um, been, you know, together 37 years now and stuff. And I can remember like it never asked her if it was okay. It just always was, right? And stuff. And I remember, you know, grabbing my A bags and stuff and, you know, going out to the driveway and tossing all my shit in the back of the truck and stuff and, and sitting there for that brief moment, you know, in my

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  truck with my head against the steering wheel, like everything that you care about is in that house right now and you're leaving anyways and stuff. And, um, then you flip a switch, dude, and you're just like going, okay. Um, you never forget about your family and stuff like that. Um, and, you know, we can talk about tattoos and stuff later on, but, you know, in every warrior, there's a black wolf and a white wolf, right? And, uh, the black ones you feed me and go to war. And, uh, you gotta be game on, man. And because the best thing that I could do to guarantee that I came home was to feed that one. When I come home, we'll feed the white wolf, the one that's love and compassion and being a good dad and

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  a good husband and all those other things. And so, um, and we could compartmentalize that pretty quick. So by the time I get to the base, it's game on. Okay. Let's get the jet loaded. Let's go. Let's rock and roll. And, uh, you know, a couple of days later, we're in Afghanistan and the day after I get there, up early in the next morning and boom, we're off on our first combat mission, right?

• 1:21:51Mike Rowe?

  Here's a crazy idea. What if there was an academy out there that paid students to learn instead of the other way around? Specifically, men and women who want to work in the skilled trades. And what if this academy not only paid for your training, but also covered all the expenses associated with your training, like travel and food and lodging? And finally, what if this academy guaranteed you a job at the end of the training period? Well, that's exactly what's happening at America's Workforce Academy by Meta. This is a five-week, highly immersive, pre-apprenticeship program that gets you all the necessary certifications you'll need to start a career in the skilled trades immediately. I'm talking about AI-proof, six-figure

• 1:22:36Mike Rowe?

  jobs, helping to build out the new infrastructure that our economy is depending on. Electricians, plumbers, HVAC techs, welders, fiber optic technicians, these jobs, they are all in demand like never before. And again, every graduate of America's Workforce Academy is guaranteed a job on a Meta website. I first announced this program a few months ago and I have been watching the response ever since. It's extraordinary. This is a nationwide, unprecedented fast track to a long-term career in a skilled trade. If you or your spouse or your kid or your grandkid are looking for a straight path into a career with no cost at all, check

• 1:23:19Mike Rowe?

  out the opportunities for yourself at meta.com slash America's Workforce Academy. That's meta.com slash America's Workforce Academy. This is a small thing, Nick, but you've got to be jet lagged. You're probably hungry. You're, I mean, I know how I feel when I fly 14 hours for a vacation, you know?

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  You don't even know where your hooch is or the chow hall is at this point. Yeah. You're just, so you're just, you're just rolling with it. Like.

• 1:23:49Mike Rowe?

  So bananas.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Caffeine and nicotine are beautiful things sometimes, right? And so, uh, you know, I'm, you know, I'm one of the older guys in the squadron and experienced guys. I got a young wingman with me and stuff. And so we take off missions, Helmand Province. Okay. We're supporting a bunch of special ops guys. Uh, and if you remember from historically, that's where the drug trade ran through. That's where the opioid trade was going through and all that stuff. And so, uh, we were out there combating that. Uh, so we check in, get into our area of responsibility, check in with the JTAC. And for the viewers out there, JTAC is a Joint Terminal Attack Controller. These are the guys that are embedded with, you know, special forces, Rangers, Army, Marine Corps. They're the guys that talk to me in the jet

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  and clear us to drop hot. Okay. So they're keeping track of friendly forces, enemy forces. Check in with this guy. Call sign is widow one, W I D O W one. And, um, we check in, um, me and my wingman are both at a point where one of us needs to leave and go air refuel. We'd never left the AOR without an airplane above it. So I kick him out, uh, to go air refuel. So he's going to do that. Um, I get eyes on where the friendlies are. Um, and they're holed up in like this little hut on the ground, you know, in the middle of the Helmand Province and stuff. And there's some other structures around it, but it's not like this huge built up city area or anything like that.

• 1:25:12Mike Rowe?

  You're in a squadron at this point? You got other planes up there with you?

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  As far as fighters, I'm it.

• 1:25:19Mike Rowe?

  You're it.

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  I'm the only game in town. And, uh, except there's reconnaissance aircraft around and there's other assets in, you know, airborne in the area and stuff, not in the area, but in the country and stuff. But they're all doing something similar to what I'm doing right now. But as far as this one is concerned, I'm, I'm the only game in town. Uh, check in with widow one, get eyes on, looking at it. And, you know, in the F-16 and with most fighter jets, you're looking through the world through a targeting pod. Okay. So imagine a big photo lens on the airplane to put it simple. And we're looking at what's going on the ground and that is what we use to, you know, uh, track targets, drop bombs off of, do everything, right? And so I've got a very good view of what's going on. Um, I

• 1:26:04Speaker 01

  hear my, I remember I hear my wingman check out, go to a different frequency. I look back down at my targeting pod and next thing I see is RPGs hitting both sides of the buildings and stuff. And you, boom. Okay. Of course, the radio starts blowing up. All these things start happening. And as that is going on, of course, now I'm talking widow one. Um, you know, I don't, I see the direction that these things go, but I can't see the enemy, right? I'm up at 15, 20,000 feet at this point. So I'm going to need a talk on, he can't see him either. Right? Every time he's keying the mic now, you're hearing da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. You know, hearing shooting, hearing ricocheting bullets coming off, um, and stuff. And, you know, and my job there, again, want to make sure everybody comes

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  home. You're the old guy in the fight. You're, you're the calm. You're the collective. You're talking like this right here. You're keeping, you know, the energy level or the panic level down. And, you know, this kid was unbelievable on the radio, right? So this goes on for, I don't know how many minutes, you know? And, um, and I'm sitting there. I'm like going, I can do shit. Like, I'm just like, they're getting shot at. Um, at this point, um, we're up to two KIA's, okay, killed in action. Uh, this has gone from now a, you know, combat mission to a rescue mission at this point. And now I need to get helos in, right? I've got a, you know, and I can't bring them in, um, with, you know, in an active firefight like this and stuff and.

• 1:27:32Mike Rowe?

  Not to gloss over it, Nick, but the, I'm trying to imagine the frustration. You're, you're 15,000 feet in the air. The guys that you're there to protect are, you can't, you can't do anything for them, but there's a radio guy who's keeping you up to speed on.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  As best he can, right? You know, and, and again, it's, it's the fog of war, right? And you're sitting there. I mean, you can imagine all the, the, you know, the noises, the sounds and everything else. I've never been in his situation. Uh, so certainly can be sympathetic to it and just like going, okay, this is like, obviously he is in sensory overload right now. And yeah, it's frustrating, right? I want to be able to like, oh my God, there is the bad guys. Hey, I've got them. Let me put, you know, uh, 500 pounds of Triton all on top of their head right now. And I can make this go away very quickly, but that wasn't the case. Um, couple more guys get shot, you know, within, in the context of two KIA's, you know, the level of, you know, panic is going up on the radio. Came in like, uh, you know,

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  we could do what was called a show of force. Okay. So I'm up at 15,000 feet and one thing that F-16 is really, really good at is making a whole lot of noise and I need these guys to understand, and I'm talking about the enemy forces at this point, that this fight is no longer fair.

• 1:28:49Mike Rowe?

  So afterburners low.

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. So I dropped from 15,000 feet, do a combat descent down below 500 feet and just making as much noise as I can, popping off flares, doing all the things and stuff. And it, and it suppresses enough, right?

• 1:29:02Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:03Speaker 01

  And stuff still don't have eyes on them, still don't have this stuff going on. And then we are able to start, uh, you know, it's comfortable enough to start getting helos in, you know, for, um, you know, to evac these guys out and stuff like that. And I'm talking to Widow One and as I'm talking to him, every time he key the mic, um, I could hear that his breathing was labored, right? And just kind of that, kind of like raspy something. Um, but at the end of the day, he died while he was talking to me on the radio. And it was.

• 1:29:36Mike Rowe?

  He'd been hit.

• 1:29:37Speaker 01

  He'd been hit.

• 1:29:38Mike Rowe?

  Before, while he was talking.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  Yes. And I didn't know that and stuff. And so, so he died, you know, and then you're thinking about it and it was like, the story isn't about me, it's about them, but it's the processing of that, which is where we were going with this whole thing.

• 1:29:53Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. Where do you put that?

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  So, you know, at the time, um, it's in a box, man. And you shove it off the side because, you know, for that day, I mean, that was hour one, probably an eight hour mission. Okay. Day one, right? And, um, there was going to be a lot more of those days that just kept rolling. And I remember, um, you know, we came back, we landed, of course, we always debrief and stuff. Okay. That was completely food barred. What happened? All the things and stuff. And, you know, I debrief with the guys on the ground, all that stuff. And we correlate stuff and, you know, ultimately at the end of the day, it was, um, you know what? Sometimes the enemy gets the boat and shit happens. And it just, that's the way

• 1:30:34Speaker 01

  things ended up, right? And I remember like, and I'm like, I'm fine at this point, right? And so we go back to our hooches and, you know, in 2013, they had, you know, uh, things set up enough to where you could like get a wifi signal and stuff like that. And, and, um, I was like, hey, I'm gonna, you know, give my wife a call, give Carrie a call and stuff. And so I FaceTimed her and as soon as I saw her face, I'm like, I made a mistake. I lose, I lose it.

• 1:31:03Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. You're not ready to talk to her.

• 1:31:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:31:05Mike Rowe?

  Cause you know, there's going to be a knock on a door.

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:31:08Mike Rowe?

  For that kid.

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And at that moment in time, I wasn't, you know, this hardened combat fighter pilot anymore. I was that 15 year old kid who got the knock on the door. And then, you know, the thinking about her getting that knock on the door, thinking about my kids growing up without a dad and those.

• 1:31:26Mike Rowe?

  You were, you're the 15 year old kid, cause your dad died.

• 1:31:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:30Mike Rowe?

  And I'm sorry, I didn't ask you about that. Was he killed in combat or just civilian tragedy?

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was, we'll go with civilian tragedy, right? You know? And so here's, you know, a guy, like I said, two tours to Vietnam, you know, my eyes 10 feet tall and, and bulletproof and stuff. And then, you know, you wake up the next day, he's not there anymore, right? And, uh, tough. And so that came out in that moment, right? And, uh, in a, like the point where you're like, you can't talk kind of thing and stuff. And Carrie just looked at me. She goes, bad day? And I go, yeah. And, uh, couldn't tell her what happened or any of those other things and stuff like that. And then you just kind of put that stuff in a box and you move on and, you know, go to the next mission and the next mission

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  and, uh, and stuff like that. And it, it was, you know, I don't want to like overdramatize this thing or anything else. I'm fine, um, and everything, but it was just, it was just that, it was that moment in time where like going, okay, we're, you know, at the end of the day, we're still human beings.

• 1:32:32Mike Rowe?

  Dude, what do you mean? You're not overdramatizing it, but you had to put some of it on her. And what a woman she is.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:41Mike Rowe?

  Cause she takes it 5,000 miles away.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:32:45Mike Rowe?

  And goes, all right. And now she gets to go to bed thinking about you on the other side of the world, not in your right head.

• 1:32:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that was unfair to her, right? And not my finest moment, uh, bunny stretch of the imagination, but she trusted me enough. You know, one of the things that I always talked to her about was this, it was like going, I was like, even when things go bad, I'm like going, I mean, we are so prepared when we show up. I mean, it is like that jet is muscle memory for me and stuff like, I mean, it is just like, just know, we're really, really good at what we do. And that makes up for that, right? That makes up when, you know, for the emotion, the anger, the whatever other stuff is happening at that time.

• 1:33:26Mike Rowe?

  It's almost like a singularity, you know, when I see like a really good operator on a front end loader.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:34Mike Rowe?

  You know, they're not thinking about what that lever does. There's no conscious, it's just machine, man, blend. Yeah. I mean, you made the point earlier, that's the, you can't put that in the paycheck, but that's an absolute perk.

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  It is. Yeah.

• 1:33:53Mike Rowe?

  That's why you do it.

• 1:33:54Speaker 01

  It's why you do it, right? Yeah. That's one of those days that you chalk up and you just go, okay, um, it's war and bad things happen to really good people. And, um, uh, today my best wasn't good enough. And you move on and you learn from it and you get better.

• 1:34:11Mike Rowe?

  Here's a question you probably can't answer, but do you think you'd be sitting here now? Running the foundation you're running? Had that kid not checked out under those circumstances on that day?

• 1:34:26Speaker 01

  Played a big part, right? Um, certainly because again, um, yeah, cause you're, you're going through, you know what's happening, right? In the background and you're like going, okay, somebody in headquarters getting notified and, you know, they're putting a team together to go knock on mom's door, wife's door, sister, whoever, right? And that's a new beginning, new sad beginning for that family, right? That wasn't, uh, when they wrote the script of their life, that wouldn't, that wasn't that chapter. And, uh, so a new chapter got introduced to them.

• 1:34:59Mike Rowe?

  I'm sorry to take you back there, man.

• 1:35:02Speaker 01

  No, it's, it's okay. Like, well, if we don't, like I said before, be a hypocrite. Like if we don't tell the stories, like, you know, that kid, Widow One, that day, that kid gave his life for his country. Okay. Um, he's a hero. Uh, he was there fighting a war he didn't start. Okay. Um, but raised his right hand in service of his country. And, um, we need to be proud of him for what he did and how he fought.

• 1:35:26Mike Rowe?

  Yes. And we can all honor that. But I was looking for a reason as to why you specifically are running what I think is one of the finest foundations in the country. And, you know, whatever other string of events.

• 1:35:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:48Mike Rowe?

  Led there. I just think it's a heck of a thing, you know, your granddad, your dad would be awfully proud.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 1:35:55Mike Rowe?

  I mean, come on, are you kidding, man? It's a phenomenal, in my view, and I don't know you well enough to say it, but you know, what, what could you possibly be doing right now that's more meaningful?

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  Nothing. Um, there just isn't, right? And, you know, as you, you're like balance, like life and stuff like that and everything else. Like my wife would give me a hard time and like, you know, hey, you know, like when I retire one day, she was like, you're not, you're not hanging out here all day. You need to figure something else out, boy. Uh, kind of thing. But it's, uh, I think here's, here's what's neat. So a little, a little bit of a fun background here. So, or you know, our CEO and founder, Dan Rooney, um, also fighter pilot, right? So he and I, we went to war together. I mean, I knew him before he started the foundation.

• 1:36:43Mike Rowe?

  Really?

• 1:36:44Speaker 01

  So, oh yeah, way back in the day. And, uh, and stuff was, you know, on the periphery in the early years as he was starting the folds and all that stuff, you know, such a noble effort to go from, you know, starting it above his garage in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, almost 20 years ago to, you know, the numbers that I quoted earlier just is unbelievable. It's a, it's a massive success story, uh, for the good of the country. You know, the thing that draws me to it the most is, you know, when you come out of the military, just having a sense of purpose, right? You know, you go from wearing the uniform one day and remember like my last day in the military, you know, November 13th or October 13th, 2018, right? And you do all the things at one time, right? Like last time I flew the F-16, right?

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  And it is like, it's tough. And I remember, uh, you know, sitting there in my office at the house and I was looking up on the wall and it was my dad's burial flag, right? And I went, huh, I took it out. And so, uh, took it with me on my last flight, which was super special, right? And stuff. And, uh, but I remember like you go through that and then, you know, I remember getting out of the jet and of course my wife is waiting for me right there. And there's all the pomp and circumstances and all, uh, circumstance and all the things, you know, we have a change of command, you know, I was head of the maintenance group, I give a change of command and everything else. And then you wake up on Monday morning,

• 1:38:05Speaker 01

  you're like, shit, now what? You know what I mean? You're just like going.

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  It's weird, you know, because you're like, it's the only thing I've known for almost thirty, thirty years now. And thank God, you know, I had a place that folds to go to, right? And stuff. And it was weird. I'm like, you know, transitioning into, you know, civilian life and stuff, although you're in a, you know, kind of a military context and you're helping these families and stuff like that. But I was talking to my wife, I was like, what do civilians wear to work? You know, like, how do they dress? And I mean, it was weird, right? Because I've been wearing a uniform my entire life.

• 1:38:40Mike Rowe?

  You're a jockey without a horse.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. But it quickly, you know, I, like I do with most things, I just pour myself into it, right? Let's go figure it out. And it's been an honor and a privilege to, you know, be able to put in a small way, my fingerprints on the organization and thankful that, you know, Dan and Jackie Rooney have trusted me to do that. That's a big deal. I don't, I don't take that lightly at all.

• 1:39:06Mike Rowe?

  Obviously.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  But the biggest gift in this whole thing is just these families I get to meet. I mean, is on, they're unbelievable. I mean, they're on, I mean, they become like my extended family and these, you know, these young recipients become like, you know, my adopted kids and stuff. And it's, it's fun. And being able to meet, meet tragedy with hope, man.

• 1:39:29Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:32Speaker 03

  Can I jump in here for a second?

• 1:39:33Mike Rowe?

  I can't stop you.

• 1:39:34Speaker 03

  Thanks. Colonel, I just want to say thank you so much for sharing that story.

• 1:39:37Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:39:38Speaker 03

  About, you know, combat and the, and the guy who didn't come back. And it just reminded me of something that Andy Stumpf said that I think was beautiful, which was that combat is when you're making impossible decisions, split second, with limited information and unbelievable circumstances, and then you have the rest of your life to think about it.

• 1:39:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:39:58Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. In this chapter of my life and stuff, you know, it is like, you can, you can grab moments of reflection and think about, you know, all of those type of things and stuff. But the comfort that I see in all of that is that, you know, is continuing to be around a group of people that care that that happened. You know what I mean? And don't just like, hey, that was just a, a point in history and stuff like that. Like, no, no, no, no. These were all, you know, you can fill in the blank with any number of names there. And it matters, you know, and, you know, and I agree with Andy, like, you can rewind in your head, all the things. And he has, you know, he has way more to say

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  on that than, than I do, just, you know, being respectful of our jobs that we did. But it's both heavy and comforting at the same time, in a weird way, right? You know, you just sit there and like, we're not gonna not go to war again. I mean, it's gonna happen and stuff. And, you know, and good men and women are gonna go raise their right hand and they're gonna give their lives and stuff. And so, let's keep talking about it.

• 1:41:02Mike Rowe?

  Just a few more quick thoughts.

• 1:41:04Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:41:04Mike Rowe?

  Before I let you go. I, do you dream about it, flying still? Like, I just can't imagine, like, when I said a jockey without a, without a horse, like, can you imagine riding Secretariat for the last time?

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:41:17Mike Rowe?

  You know, you know, you'll never, ever, ever sit on anything like that. You'll just, so I just wonder, just in terms of the feeling, where does that go?

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think, you know, it was funny, it was probably six months ago, a bunch of, you know, us old retired firefighters got together for lunch and beers and stuff like that. And we were sitting around and just going.

• 1:41:37Mike Rowe?

  Fly on the wall there, dude. How much fun, how much fun would that be to crash?

• 1:41:42Speaker 01

  It's fun. It is really fun to get together with your old bros and stuff like that. And we're all sitting around, that was the topic of conversation, like, do you still dream about it? And we're like, and all of us do. And we, and, you know, I've been retired for eight years now. Some guy's been retired for 15 years. Like, it doesn't leave you. And I'm like going, I think I could still get in and started and like take off in it. Like, I'm, like, I'm confident I could do that. I wouldn't send me to war in it right now. But I'm confident that I could go do that. But like, sometimes you'll have like such realistic dreams. Like, you wake up, you know, like, there's dreams where you wake up and like, for the first 30 seconds, like, oh, that actually happened. Then you quickly realize, no, that, you used to be cool.

• 1:42:20Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, that ship sailed.

• 1:42:22Speaker 01

  That's gone. Yeah.

• 1:42:26Mike Rowe?

  Greatest slash most important war movie for you that either got it right, or just inspired something in you?

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  Boy, I gotta go with Saving Private Ryan. You know, you can't get past the beach scene. And I, like, the first however many minutes of the movie, there's no words spoken. And just unbelievable, because you're like, it's almost like, that didn't really happen, right? But it did. And like, just putting yourself in the mindset of being in that boat.

• 1:43:07Mike Rowe?

  One of those Higgins.

• 1:43:08Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. And then just the ramp coming open. And then the first 10 guys are mowed down.

• 1:43:14Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:15Speaker 01

  You know, or they're drowning, or, or whatever.

• 1:43:17Mike Rowe?

  Over the side.

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  Over the side.

• 1:43:18Mike Rowe?

  Oh, it's 20 feet. Oh, I'm wearing 80 pounds of crap.

• 1:43:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. And whatever is happening, you know, and I remember, and I think I alluded to this earlier, was like, you know, at the very, very end of the movie, when Private Ryan was sitting there at the grave of the captain, and, am I a good man?

• 1:43:36Mike Rowe?

  It's, it's the most important scene. That was gonna be my, that scene, and I don't even know who the actor is, Chuck. See if you can figure that out. But when it dissolves from his eyes.

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:43:47Mike Rowe?

  And now he's the old man.

• 1:43:49Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:43:50Mike Rowe?

  And he just wants to know if he earned it.

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. And where Tom Hanks said, earn this.

• 1:43:55Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, that stuff is heavy. And I mean, it's just like, you know, it's one of those movies where it just like, like, gets you to the depths of your soul. And stuff where you walk away from that and go, I'm gonna carry that one with me for a little while. But that's the one that like, in a very realistic, historic way, like, super resonates with me.

• 1:44:14Mike Rowe?

  Well, look, I'm no shrink. But if I, if I were, I'd say, well, that's your widow one.

• 1:44:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, 100%.

• 1:44:20Mike Rowe?

  You've been earning it ever since.

• 1:44:22Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:44:22Mike Rowe?

  You know, or at least looking for a way to try.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:25Mike Rowe?

  You know, it's been a real privilege for me in my ridiculous business, both on Dirty Jobs, where I got a chance to highlight most of the branches in some way, shape, or form. But later, on some of these other shows, finding guys who are trying to crack the post-traumatic stress code, and doing different things to try and break the pattern, or change the trajectory. And that cohort, when I think of them as a group, Steve Hots, Black Forge, Black Horse Forge, down in Fredericksburg, he's got, he came back broken, couple jumps

• 1:45:09Mike Rowe?

  went sideways, compressed spine, lost his vision in one eye, back to the one eye thing. What a weird theme that is. But it's kind of a leitmotif in this conversation. But he, he was right close to punching his own ticket and, you know, found that old forge in his garage and fired it up and started making knives.

• 1:45:28Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:45:28Mike Rowe?

  Just one after the next, and found, founded compressed time, in a way, and just took him out of all that other stuff. And so he called some buddies who he, he knew was struggling. And they started making knives. And now it's like, like, over 10,000, close to 20,000 people, that's the guy.

• 1:45:48Speaker 01

  That's the face.

• 1:45:49Speaker 03

  Harrison Young is his name.

• 1:45:50Mike Rowe?

  Harrison Young. He's great. Yeah. Did he earn it? But I think my friend Steve is asking a similar question down there. You know, he, he's trying to fix himself. And now, like, he has zero suicides, after the tens of thousands of people coming through here. It's not a panacea for everyone, but it's, there's so many ways, I think, to make sense of a moment, that Tom Hanks moment, the widow one moment. And there's so many thousands of people who have had so many moments that have not yet been resolved. To Andy's point, you know, you're gonna make a decision with not nearly enough input. And

• 1:46:35Mike Rowe?

  then you get to second guess.

• 1:46:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:46:37Mike Rowe?

  Everything to your last breath. Enjoy your life.

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  That's right. Right? And, you know, it's, it's sort of a, you know, yeah, welcome to the club kind of moment, right? You know, those things, yeah, like we talked about before, like, you know, they, we, you can let it be too heavy and all the other things and stuff too. But, you know, like, and, you know, Andy's a great guy. And so, but he's putting his time and effort in the right places, right? And doing the right things by people and stuff. And, you know, similar to what we do at the folds. And I mean, he's been involved with us for a long time now and stuff. I mean, they did all the triple seven jumps and stuff. Did he talk to you guys about that? And, you know, they, Seven Continents in seven days and stuff?

• 1:47:16Mike Rowe?

  I had to wring it out of him. He was, yeah, he, you know.

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  He lost a very good friend.

• 1:47:21Mike Rowe?

  Oh, yeah. You know, he lost his best friend in a dive. And yeah, 8,500 jumps, and then the whole wingsuit thing. And then, yeah, we talked a lot about risk and, you know, the awkwardness of another Bronze Star, and not quite sure how to think about it or what to do with it. And he's, he's awesome.

• 1:47:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:43Mike Rowe?

  He's awesome. And Cleared Hot, like I said, is a podcast I hope more people, people listen to. And look, in the interest of landing this plane, if you'll pardon the metaphor, I really want to encourage everybody to at least go to Folds of Honor. Look at the site. Get smart about what they're doing and what they've done. By no means is it, is it the only solution. There's so many great causes. And there's so many decent people doing their best to move the needle in the right direction. But in the scholarship world, nobody's doing it like you guys are. So.

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:48:22Mike Rowe?

  Thank you. Thank your sponsors. Thank the people listening who are gonna go over there and help. It does help. And folks, keep your eyes out. I don't know when or where, but you and I are gonna pop up someplace together.

• 1:48:35Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 1:48:36Mike Rowe?

  We're gonna tell a story about folds and micro works and the skilled trades. Because the government is, has finally come around. And they're gonna do their campaign to reinvigorate the trades. And everybody from Facebook, to Caterpillar, to Lowe's, to Home Depot, they got the memo. So.

• 1:48:56Speaker 01

  They did.

• 1:48:56Mike Rowe?

  I'm personally very gratified and super excited to see where all this goes. But. I just think it's super cool that this happened because our friend John Rich wrote a song in a bathroom that I recorded with him.

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  I love it. I love it. And, you know, hey, I brought a gift. Okay, so hey, one quick thing before we go. Think I can reach across the table here. I won't explain it on the air, but this is, it took me forever to, you know, get a personal coin and stuff like that because it's so not in my DNA. And one of our board members finally said, I'm gonna pay for all of them. Get your coin designed and stuff. So we can talk about off air what the, what the symbols and everything mean on here, but it goes with a handshake.

• 1:49:33Mike Rowe?

  I'll take it.

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  Thanks, brother. I appreciate you having me on. And this has been been a huge, huge moment for me.

• 1:49:40Mike Rowe?

  Great things to come.

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:49:42Mike Rowe?

  Keep the, keep the dirty side down, as I tell all my favorite pilots.

• 1:49:47Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:49:49Mike Rowe?

  Adios.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  This episode is over now. I hope it was worthwhile. Sorry it went on so long, but if it made you smile, then share your satisfaction in the way that people do. Take some time to go online and leave us a review. I hate to ask, I hate to beg, I hate to be a nudge, but in this world, the advertisers really like to judge.

• 1:50:33Speaker 02

  You don't need to write a bunch, just a line or two. All you've got to do is leave a quick five star review. Not more. All you've got to do is leave a quick five star review. And not three. All you've got to do is leave a quick five star review. Definitely not two. All you've got to do is leave a quick five star review. We need five. All you've got to do is leave a quick. Even if you hated it. Five. Especially if you hated it. Review. Thank you.

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