436: Garry Ridge—Any Dumbass Can Do It

Once named one of Inc. magazine's 10 most admired CEOs, Garry led WD-40 for 25 years. At that time, his leadership and positive corporate culture grew WD-40 into one of the world's most recognized and well-loved brands. In this episode, Garry discusses how he achieved this and why he detailed it in his book, Any Dumbass Can Do It https://www.amazon.com/dp/1637746296/?bestFormat=true&k=any%20dumbass%20can%20do%20it&ref_=nb_sb_ss_w_scx-ent-pd-bk-d_de_k0_1_16&crid=1ZKO71V8GRC2Q&sprefix=any%20dumbass%20can%20.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Mike Rowe?

  Hey guys, it's Mike Rowe. This is The Way I Heard It, episode number...oh, right, we don't do that anymore, do we?

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Well, you know, we could, but...

• 0:09Mike Rowe?

  400-something, at least.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, yeah, whatever. It's an episode with a number.

• 0:15Mike Rowe?

  Good. Thank you, Chuck.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Undisclosed, at this moment.

• 0:18Mike Rowe?

  I'll tell you what matters, is the name. The name of the episode is fantastic. It's called "Any Dumbass Can Do It." And it could apply to podcasting, it could apply to hosting, it could apply to virtually everything, but in this case, it applies to running a company.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 0:34Mike Rowe?

  Gary Ridge is the author of a terrific book of the same title. He's very Australian, as he will prove shortly. And we've just had a great conversation about his extraordinary impact and run over at a little company called WD-40.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:53Mike Rowe?

  I mean, the company itself, you could talk for hours about. They've got just a couple of products, they totally dominate the market, but the employee satisfaction and engagement levels...

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Very high, very high.

• 1:07Mike Rowe?

  Suspiciously high.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:10Mike Rowe?

  Like, it's hard to believe what these guys have done to build a culture in like 16 different countries, 600-700 employees. They are a family. And it's just, I just wish I could do that here with you and Mary and Jade, and I wish I, I just wish I were a better leader, Chuck.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  It would be great if you were, Mike, but I think, I think it's fair to say, too, that this was a very slick conversation.

• 1:36Mike Rowe?

  Ooh, really?

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Do you think?

• 1:38Mike Rowe?

  You're just trying to do a lubricant joke around WD-40?

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was trying to do a lubricant joke.

• 1:43Mike Rowe?

  See, this is why we have no cohesion here at MicroWorks. People still think they can handle the jokes, when they can't, and I have no choice but to shout them down.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:53Mike Rowe?

  Uh, it, I hesitate to say, um, this was written for other CEOs because I think the book has a lot of stuff in it that can apply to just about anyone, but I'll tell you what's, what's for sure. It's fun to talk to an Australian.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Right? I love listening to an Australian talk.

• 2:12Mike Rowe?

  And it's not just the accent. There, no, there's an enthusiasm, uh, among the Aussies. There's a, just like Hemingway used to say, you know, live all the way up. They're well traveled.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:25Mike Rowe?

  They're passionate.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26Mike Rowe?

  You know, and, um, they have a lot to say, but, uh, this guy beyond that has been there and done it. Uh, his book will be out by the time you listen to this. You should check it out. Any dumbass can do it. It's funny. He's funny. A couple of laughs and dare I say Chuck, uh, some, some pearls of wisdom for those who pay attention.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, indeed.

• 2:49Mike Rowe?

  And when it comes to paying attention, trust me, any dumbass can do it. Hopefully you'll help me prove that right after this.

• 3:01Mike Rowe?

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• 3:43Mike Rowe?

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• 4:28Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm rolling.

• 4:32Mike Rowe?

  You're welcome.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  There you go. Thank you. That's it.

• 4:36Mike Rowe?

  Just so you know.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  It's real.

• 4:38Mike Rowe?

  Gary Ridge Suit of Armor, if it comes up, and it will.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 4:44Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, I mean, that is, that the instant gratification of Google is intoxicating.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Now, did you spell armor with U or not?

• 4:56Mike Rowe?

  What am I, English?

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Just kidding.

• 4:58Mike Rowe?

  British? Armor.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Wait, I mean, they do that, do it that way in Australia as well, don't they?

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Armor. I used to always get in trouble spelling armor all.

• 5:10Mike Rowe?

  An under armor?

• 5:11Speaker 02

  An under armor. And tire.

• 5:15Mike Rowe?

  Why, why did you guys wage war on, on the letter R?

• 5:19Speaker 02

  I have no idea.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  What, what, how did that happen?

• 5:23Speaker 02

  I don't know. Well, you know, we're convicts. We were sent there by the best judges in England, you know?

• 5:28Mike Rowe?

  This is Gary Ridge, by the way, former CEO of WD-40 and my guest for as long as he'll stay here. And we're just talking, but clearly you're Australian.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  I am.

• 5:37Mike Rowe?

  And the Australians have a moratorium on R. And yet, your name, Gary.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  Has two Rs.

• 5:41Mike Rowe?

  Has two Rs. You're the only Gary I know with two Rs. Please explain.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  I think I was named after a pub. There was a pub in Australia called The Gary Owen, and my name is Gary Owen Ridge. And my dad was born in 1907. My mum was born in 1914. So mum lived, she was 99 years and nine months old. But one day I was driving through a suburb of Sydney, not far from where I lived, and I see a pub called The Gary Owen. And I went to my dad and I said, "Did you drink beer there, Dad?" And he said, "I might have had a, you know, a schooner there occasionally." And I said, "Was I named after that pub?" And he denied it, Mike, but who knows?

• 6:18Mike Rowe?

  Isn't Gary Owen? A famous melody, a song?

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Not that I'm aware of.

• 6:26Mike Rowe?

  Wasn't Chuck, I hate to ask you so early on to do actual work, but I think Gary Owen is associated with the Seventh Cavalry. And I think specifically with Custer's Last Stand. I don't know why I think that, but it would be great to know if I'm simply hallucinating.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Let's see.

• 6:47Mike Rowe?

  What part, where exactly is home in Australia?

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Sydney. I grew up in Sydney, Australia.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Little suburb called Five Dock, which was about seven or eight miles from the center of Sydney. Went to Des Moines Boys High School, which was a great lot of fun.

• 7:03Mike Rowe?

  I love Sydney. I've been there twice. Reminds me of San Francisco, where I lived for a while. I think they're sister cities, in fact.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  They are. It's, we were talking earlier, you know, I live in San Diego now. San Diego is a lot like Perth, which is on the western side of Australia because it has the desert on the east. But Sydney is a little like San Francisco. It's a little like San Diego. It's the sweetest city in the South Seas, Mike.

• 7:29Mike Rowe?

  It's, it's so funny the way we, oh Chuck, was I right?

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:33Mike Rowe?

  Southern Cavalry?

• 7:33Speaker 01

  It's Seventh Cavalry Regiment of the United States Army, which adopted the Irish tune, Gary Owen, as its official marching song.

• 7:41Mike Rowe?

  Play it. Play it, but find a video and play that thing. I want to hear it. It's, it's like a, now it's haunting me, like a, like a splinter in my mind.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  My gosh, something you learn every day. I'm a song now.

• 7:53Mike Rowe?

  Well, I mean, is this, you're clearly a man who has traveled and seen some things, done some things. Does it all, like, is your mind a cluttered desktop or a neatly ordered filing cabinet?

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm a mess. I love the word discombobulated. And I think my mind is discombobulated. But then, as I write in the book, there's a airport that has a recombobulation zone.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  So I think I'm discombobulated and recombobulated, but.

• 8:27Mike Rowe?

  You mentioned a book. It's called Any Dumbass Can Do It. You apparently have written it. Your name is on the front of it. I've read the synopsis that your publisher sent. So I'm not going to pretend, because a lot of guys will do that. They'll read it and then they'll act. I will read it, but I haven't yet. And, I mean, I just, I don't think I've seen the word.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Any dumbass can read it.

• 8:50Mike Rowe?

  But I don't think I I'm just trying to think of all the books I've seen with dumbass in the title. Uh, now, is this just self-deprecating? Or is it revelatory? Do you mean that? What's a?

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do mean it, Mike. I I think, you know, if I want to be serious for a moment, um, which only for a moment.

• 9:08Mike Rowe?

  I mean, if it goes on too long, he'll cue the music again.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  And then we'll be done with the Irish pub. That's it. Sure. Um, I truly believe that business has a responsibility and an opportunity to make a positive difference in the world. And I know you believe that, too, the way the way you support trades and, you know, young people and whatever. And, you know, in my 25 years that I was given the opportunity, and I'm so grateful for that opportunity to lead a company, I really learned that it's really about the people. And if we can Aristotle said, pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work. And if we can put pleasure in a job, we're going to bring perfection to the work. And I think it's the job of businesses these days to build cultures where people go home happy.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  Because happy people create happy families, happy families create happy communities, happy communities create a happy world, and we need a happy world. And if you look at some of the latest research, you know, Gallup came out in January, 31% of people who go to work every day in the US are engaged, which means 69% are disengaged. And the biggest proportion of people who are disengaged are under 35, the young people. And leaders are creating these toxic cultures that people hate going to work. You know, I created someone called Alec the soul-sucking CEO.

• 10:30Mike Rowe?

  He's in here.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  He's in there. Um, so I wrote the book because I after having that opportunity at WD40, I think I thought I can pay it forward now by sharing the things that we learned over time that build a great culture. And at the company, you know, we had and they still have very, very high employee engagement. 98% of the people say they love to tell people they work at the company. And we're not sexy. It's it's oil in a can, right?

• 10:59Mike Rowe?

  Well, I love the company, uh, for reasons that you and I have discussed offline, and we'll get into that as well. But since you invoked Aristotle, I think he also said that the, um, The definition of a tragedy is that moment in the narrative when the protagonist comes face to face with the inescapable truth of his own self. And, you know, I realize that's a bit highfalutin', but I remember it word for word because to me, it's so poetic and poignant and grand but common. And when you just think of, you know, you just hit me with some percentages, thirty-one and sixty-nine, they're not big numbers in and of themselves, but you're talking about

• 11:43Mike Rowe?

  many, many millions of people.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Many, millions of people.

• 11:46Mike Rowe?

  And if you've got sixty-nine percent of people walking around fundamentally disengaged with their work, then these people are about to come face to face with the inescapable tragedy of their own identity, and that sucks.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  It sucks. I mean, and we don't have to have that environment. I mean, you can change that. You know, in business and in life, there's, I think there's three things that are really important. The first one is, do I belong? Do I feel like and am I treated like I belong? Do I matter? Am I treated like I matter? And is what I do seen as being valuable? And thirdly, am I allowed to make choices? So can I make a choice in what I do? And if you have an organization where people belong, and they feel like they belong, where they matter and they know they matter, and they're able to make choices, then you create

• 12:41Speaker 02

  a culture where people feel, rightly so, that they're valued.

• 12:46Mike Rowe?

  Is there a difference between belonging and feeling like you belong?

• 12:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:50Mike Rowe?

  What?

• 12:51Speaker 02

  The way you're treated. I mean, you know, if you think about, do I feel like I belong? It's how you are treated within an organization, you know? How many times do people in organizations ask, Mike, how are you today? What's on your mind? Is there anything getting in your way? How can I help you? Or are they talking about, you know, why didn't you meet your sales target? And do I really care about what's going on in your home? I mean...

• 13:17Mike Rowe?

  You know, that's a really interesting point. I, I think sometimes we do more harm than good when we ask somebody how they're doing insincerely.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 13:28Mike Rowe?

  And because you hear it all of the time. And you know, when somebody says, hey, how are you? That they don't really give a tinker's damn. And if you're really having a bad day and you've got some heavy stuff and you say, hey, I'm glad you asked. And then you sit them down and 10 minutes later, they're just going, my God. What have I done? So you have to, you have to really care. Like, you really have to give a damn if you ask somebody how they're doing.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that was something that became really interestingly clear to me when I moved from Australia to here back in 1994. Um, I'd go through a checkout and someone would say, have a nice day. And I think to myself, why do you care? You know, do you really care if I have a nice day? I, no, it was just that automatic reply.

• 14:14Mike Rowe?

  It's time to make sounds.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Yes. So I think authenticity, Mike, is so important in that in an organization, you, you have to show that you really care. And that's where vulnerability comes into play. That's where, um, you know, taking the time to really understand people.

• 14:31Mike Rowe?

  Well, with regard to authenticity, um, one of the things that did stick with me as I did the cursory research to create the illusion that I read your book was, um, the satisfaction rate, the engagement among your employees during lockdowns versus other big organizations was so stark. You'll remember the exact numbers, I'm sure, but you were in the mid to high 90s.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  93%.

• 15:00Mike Rowe?

  Okay. While the average organization was like flirting with single digits, it seemed.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, certainly, you know, not in high past 30.

• 15:12Mike Rowe?

  So how the hell did you do that? You, you are now an international organization, right? You've got people suddenly working from home. How did you navigate that? And I, I'm asking for a friend. I have a tiny organization here, you know? And we, we're just trying to figure out, you know?

• 15:34Mike Rowe?

  Is it a bad trade? You know, what you lose from being together? You know, what you gain from not spending two hours in traffic every day like poor Chuck has to do? Is it a, is it a fair trade? Is it a good trade? How do you navigate that?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Well, I think there's a couple of things. We maintained a very high engagement level during the lockdown because we went in with a very high engagement level. So, you know, you can't sprinkle fairy dust on an organization and, and, and change culture. I have a friend of mine, yeah, his name's Charlie Malouf. He owns a, a chain of Ashley furniture stores out in North Carolina.

• 16:14Mike Rowe?

  What a story, what a company that is.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, you should talk to him one day.

• 16:18Mike Rowe?

  Oh, sure.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Um, and he says, you know, culture is not a microwavable event. It takes a crock pot approach. And that is so true. So we maintained high levels because we went in with high levels. And I'll, I'll tell you a story around that is we were, it was January 2021, right? So we've been one year into this thing that we're in. There is no sign yet really of a vaccination or a solution. So the world is topsy turvy, you know, we'd, we'd get in of a morning and we'd be, you know, virtual and we'd be checking which country are we, is actually open today. So I, I said, I wanna, I wanna be sure that we haven't been draining our cultural equity in the last year.

• 17:01Mike Rowe?

  Let me, let me just jump in real quick so people understand. How many employers are we talking about and how many countries?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  16 countries, probably in our leadership group and the execution group, probably six or 700 people.

• 17:14Mike Rowe?

  Okay, it's a chunk.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, um, I said, let's go out and do a, you know, a poll survey to see if we have, our levels have remained where they were in March 2020, when we took the last serious poll survey. So we went out and did a check in and the numbers came back and they were pretty much equal, which gave me some satisfaction that all that we've been doing in this past year had kept us together. You know, we were doing fun things. We'd have a, a virtual comedian. Come in, our French team would do virtual cooking classes for the whole organisation. We were doing stuff, we'd have a virtual happy hour on a Friday afternoon, all of this stuff. Still wasn't as good as being together, but we were there. One number came back that really blew me away.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  And it was the answer to a question, I am excited about my place in the company and the future. And it came back at ninety seven percent of our people positively said that. Which was higher than it was in twenty twenty. And I said, this cannot be real. You know, people, don't they realise what's going on in the world? Go back and check it. So we went back and checked it, came back, it was real. I said, we got to find out why. So we went out and we asked the question, why? And it was a very beautiful answer we got, Mike. It said, I feel safe. I feel safe. We are living our just cause. And our just cause openly stated was a group of people that come together to protect and feed each other.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  And we were protecting each other and we were feeding each other because day one of Covid. We said, we have three objectives and the number one objective is the safety and the wellbeing of our people. The number two objective is to service our customers and our end users the best we can. And number three was to preserve the underbody of our business so that when this was over, we will thrive.

• 19:07Mike Rowe?

  But nowhere in there is any mention of the product.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  No, because the culture is not the product, the culture is the people.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  So it's all about the people.

• 19:23Mike Rowe?

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• 20:45Mike Rowe?

  It's almost as though, if I can reach for a metaphor here, that your product fundamentally a lubricant

• 20:55Mike Rowe?

  applies to your people, to the culture. I mean, creating the right lubrication, creating, you know, to to reduce the friction, maybe.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:04Mike Rowe?

  I don't know. I'm not.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Friction, reduce friction and increase flow. We we use that a lot. You know, our purpose statement, you know, when I asked people, what do you think the purpose of of our company is, right? If I ask someone now, when I'm, even though I'm not there, I'm out speaking on the, on the, you know, around the world about culture and someone will say, W40's purpose, stop a squeak. You know, stop moisture. I said, well, that's what it does. But here was our purpose statement. We existed to create positive lasting memories, solving problems in factories, homes and workshops around the world. We solved problems and we created opportunities. We're in the memories business. Our second value at the company was we exist to create positive lasting memories.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  So we could ask that question all the time. What positive lasting memory did that behavior create? What positive lasting memory did our new delivery system deliver to our end users? What positive lasting memory did we create for the community, for the tradespeople that we service? So it was always on top of mind that that's why we're in business. So. You know, don't get your purpose mixed up with your product. Your purpose is a little different.

• 22:16Mike Rowe?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  And that's why we had that strong ethos within the organization.

• 22:23Mike Rowe?

  For whom did you write the book?

• 22:26Speaker 02

  I wrote it for the leaders that are out there that can make a difference in the world if they're brave enough to do it. And why I say brave is that building a great culture in an organization is simple. It's not easy and time is not your friend. When I was a young lad back in Australia in my high school science class. My science teacher gave me a Petri dish, Mike, and they said, what we're going to do is we're going to grow culture in this Petri dish. And the science teacher said, what's important is the ingredients that you put in the dish and how are you going to take care of those ingredients as the owner of that Petri dish to grow the best culture you can?

• 23:08Speaker 02

  So if you know the ingredients to put into the dish as a leader to build a great culture and you're brave enough to reward and applaud the good ingredients or the good behavior and brave enough to treat the toxins, you will build a great culture over time. But it takes time. Consistency is so important.

• 23:28Mike Rowe?

  How many, I mean, you were at WD 40 for 25 years.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Thirty five years, 25 years as CEO.

• 23:36Mike Rowe?

  Now, is that the kind of time you're talking about to create the kind of results that are potentially there? I mean, do you need that long? Because most CEOs don't, don't make it 25 years.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  No, they don't.

• 23:50Mike Rowe?

  They don't make it 10.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  No, no, I think that you have to start the process. It probably took us three to five years to gain the momentum of what we're all about. You know, when I, the story behind how this came about, if you're interested, is that, you know, in 1997, I became CEO. For some reason, the board of directors of a US public company thought this, you know, dumb ass from Australia might be okay. And I knew with the help of those around me how to make the brand aware and make it easy to buy for people around the world who needed it. It just took time to do that.

• 24:29Mike Rowe?

  Was something broken at that point or was there merely room for improvement?

• 24:33Speaker 02

  There was room for expansion. Ninety, eighty five percent of our revenue was in the US.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  When I left, sixty five percent of our revenue was outside the US.

• 24:43Mike Rowe?

  Hmm.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Because we knew there were lots of places around the world to go. So, you know, we opened these seventeen offices and built the brand. So I think we knew over time how to build a brand. But what was clear to me was the sun was never gonna set on that can now. Because it was gonna be somewhere around the world at any time during the day, we would be doing something. And I didn't want people based in Barcelona or Beijing or wherever having to quack up the hierarchy to get some answer back in San Diego. But I didn't know how to do it. So I'm flying on a Qantas seven forty seven from Los Angeles to Sydney. It's nineteen ninety eight. And as you do when you travel, you take stuff to read. And I read something that was attributed to the Dalai Lama. Our purpose in life is to make people happy. If we can't make them happy, at least don't hurt them.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  I thought, wow, that's pretty cool.

• 25:31Mike Rowe?

  Hippocratic oath.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  And then I read the quote from Aristotle. Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work. I thought, that's pretty cool. I wonder how you could build that. I still didn't know how. I got back to San Diego and I was reading something in the Union Tribune. And it was about a master's degree in leadership at the University of San Diego that was put together by Dr. Ken Blanchard, the One Minute Manager and the University of San Diego.

• 25:56Mike Rowe?

  Did you, you, you wrote a book with Ken?

• 25:59Speaker 02

  I did, and he wrote the foreword to my new book.

• 26:01Mike Rowe?

  What was the book with Ken?

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Uh, it's called Helping People Win at Work.

• 26:05Mike Rowe?

  Ah.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  And the byline is, don't mark my paper, help me get an A. That's.

• 26:09Mike Rowe?

  It's great.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  Ken's eighty five, eighty six.

• 26:12Mike Rowe?

  He's terrific, by the way.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  He lives close to me. We are very, very dear friends. I love him so much. Um, we talk more than often and.

• 26:21Mike Rowe?

  He lives near you in Australia?

• 26:23Speaker 02

  No, in San Diego.

• 26:24Mike Rowe?

  Oh, okay.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Fifteen minutes away, um, so. But I was just, I was at his eighty fifth birthday and it's just, I, I'd love that guy to death. Um, anyhow, I listened to him and he said, most leadership is about getting people in the head. We gotta get people in the heart. And that's what this program's all about. So here I am, I'm the CEO of a US public company, two years and I went back to school. I went and did a master's degree in leadership. Ken was one of my, my professors and I learned the essence of servant leadership. And I started to implement it in the company. And that was where it all started. And from then we gained the momentum of, you know. Now, back then. What I talked about, people, their eyes rolled, you know.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  You're drinking too much of Ken Blanchard's Kool-Aid, you know. I remember going to board meetings and I'd be talking about culture. And they'd be going, what is this culture thing about? Now, today, culture is a big topic. But, you know, we were, we were early beginners on it. But it was really about, and that's where I learnt that it's not about me. It's, it's about how do we bring the best out of other people? You know, we changed the name of manager in the company to coach. Why? Well, the word manager in some dictionaries means manipulator. So I come to you and say, good morning, Mike, I'm gonna manage you. How do you feel? No, what am I here to do? I'm here to coach you.

• 27:50Mike Rowe?

  Hmm.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  And if you think about great coaches. Do you, have you ever seen a great coach run onto the field and actually take the ball and try and score? No.

• 27:59Mike Rowe?

  Never seen him accept an award.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  And they never go to the podium to pick up the prize, right? But what do bad leaders do? They micromanage, they run onto the field, they wanna take the ball. When something great happens, they're up there taking the prize. If things go wrong, it's your fault. If things go right, it's my fault. And the other thing that's so important, great coaches spend a lot of time in the stinky locker room. And that's where you really build psychological safety and trust. You get to know your people.

• 28:27Mike Rowe?

  Well, that was the third thing you said. You have to have, like, for, for real engagement, I think. You, you, the people need to believe, know that they can move the needle.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:37Mike Rowe?

  And that they'll, and the only way you do that is leave them alone.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  And, and coach them to play their best game. So, you know, you have to redirect play occasionally.

• 28:46Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  But, you know, if you wanna go on there and play the game all yourself, you'll just become exhausted and you'll never get a team that wins, so.

• 28:54Mike Rowe?

  I mean, do you feel that, that, that something fundamental has changed in, in the broader culture and the broader society? And I say that because I, it, it just sounds like there, there's so many bad habits that so many CEOs have employed for so long. That something must have existed that allowed them to get away with it. You know, maybe it was, maybe recruiting was easier. Maybe there was just a more of a baked in understanding of, well, this is what employee does, this is what employer does. But. It feels like something fundamental shifted and maybe it was during the lockdowns. Maybe it was when people came back in after having some time away that they realized

• 29:37Mike Rowe?

  that something really fundamental was was missing that went beyond the right, just the job of it. And it's a bad job of articulating it, but it's.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  No, I know where you're coming from, and I think certainly COVID for all of us was a smack up the side of the head around a lot of things. But I wrote an article around COVID time. They were talking about the great resignation. It wasn't a great resignation, it was the great escape.

• 30:01Mike Rowe?

  Great escape, yeah.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  People were escaping toxic cultures. They said, I've had enough. And again, you know, you, you, you and I could probably sit here and write a really good strategic plan about launching something, you know, you've spent so much of your life in marketing and what you do. And we take that strategic plan along to some smart professor and say, mark this up. They said, great strategic plan, Mike, 70 out of 100. But if only 20% of the people who go to work every day are passionately executing against that plan, 20 times 70 is 1,400. But if 80% of the people are executing, 20, 80 times 70 is 5,600. So duh, why don't you get it?

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Now, I think a lot of it is short term thinking, you know, CEOs these days are pressured by, what are you going to do for me in the next 90 days? If it isn't working, who are you going to lay off? Wait a minute, you're going to let your brain drain, go out the door? You've spent all this time developing these people? Why do you? Now, in my 25 years at WD40 company, we never laid anybody off at any time.

• 31:09Mike Rowe?

  Never?

• 31:10Speaker 02

  Never. Now, we did share some people with competitors if they weren't really wanting to be with us, but in any economic time, we never laid anyone off because we said it was our people that were the asset, that the will of the people was so important to drive our strategy.

• 31:27Mike Rowe?

  Well, then, how, how do you hire? What do you look for in an individual? Right? I mean, because these ideal employees that you're talking about, they don't, they don't come out fully formed. They need to be coached. So what's the, what's the bare minimum, where's the benchmark for a good hire?

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Hmm. Uh. If you were to go on our website and I know what I don't know what it says now. Cause I haven't looked lately, but when I was there and I think it says exactly the same. If you went on to our careers page, the first thing that pops up at you is here are our values at WD forty company. And here's what they mean to us. If you can't align with these, don't even. Uh. Apply because you won't fit. You will get voted off the island.

• 32:11Mike Rowe?

  So are you allowed to do that? I mean, I do the same. Mine's hanging on the wall there. It's called a sweat pledge.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 32:19Mike Rowe?

  Right? Now, if you're going to apply for a scholarship for my foundation.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 32:24Mike Rowe?

  Well, we can still be friends if you don't agree with this, but I I I can't help you.

• 32:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 32:31Mike Rowe?

  But I've it. It. It feels like so many CEOs today or so many companies are under so much pressure. You can't really have that conversation.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  Sure you can. Why not?

• 32:40Mike Rowe?

  Well, because.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  But you but you can test it. Like, let's say our first value is we value his their first value WD forty comes is we value doing the right thing. So what does that look like? Or the second one was we value creating positive lasting memories in all of our relationships. That was the second one. So someone comes in to the organization and they visit the the front desk, who the person there that we call the. Um, uh, the, the, the, the, the person of first impression and they don't treat them with respect. Do you think they're going to create positive lasting memories?

• 33:12Mike Rowe?

  I don't I.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  And there it is. It says it's a special place.

• 33:15Mike Rowe?

  Well, it says it, right? But how do I know it's not bullshit? Like to our earlier point, have a nice day. Hey, how you doing? Uh, it's easy to say the words. It's easy to write the words. It's easy to take actors or maybe your real employees. I'm guessing those are your real employees.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  All employees.

• 33:34Mike Rowe?

  Let's let's see him again. Okay.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  They're real people, each one of them. I know each one of their names.

• 33:39Mike Rowe?

  Are they really that happy? Like, what what what's happening here? These guys look like they just hit the greatest lottery of all time.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  Ninety eight percent of our people say they love to tell people they love at the company from the reason from our surveys. Ninety eight percent of our people say, I love to tell people I work at WD forty company. Ninety seven percent of them say, I respect my coach. Now their coach is their manager. Most people leave organizations because they hate their boss. And why we asked, when we asked them, why do you respect your coach? Answer was always very similar. Because the coach is here to help me step into the best version of my personal self. They're here, they care about me, they want me to do my best job and they're willing to help me grow.

• 34:23Mike Rowe?

  How important is it for an employee? Or what do you call them? Caretakers of the brand or something like that?

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Well, I used to call them tribe members.

• 34:33Mike Rowe?

  Really?

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:34Mike Rowe?

  I'm sure you can get away with that in Australia. You start calling people tribal over here, there's gonna be Eldepe.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  But it depends. Tribe goes back thousands of years. I'm not talking about any indigenous group. I'm talking about human behavior.

• 34:50Mike Rowe?

  Ah, okay.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  I'm not wanting to tread on anybody's indigenous background. But Ugg the caveman was a tribal person. You know, books have been written about the power of tribes or clans. So let's call them, let's be Scottish, let's call them a clan if you like.

• 35:07Mike Rowe?

  Fine.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  But the number one responsibility of a tribal leader is to be a learner and a teacher. That's the number one responsibility. That was our, now, you know, that was me when I was there. What they call themselves now, I don't know.

• 35:22Mike Rowe?

  Hmm, okay, then maybe, maybe what I'm getting at, because my recent conversation with Gene Simmons is still on my mind. He, he, he doesn't want to be called a Democrat or a Republican. He wants to be called an American. That's his, that's how he thinks of his, his tribe. Now, that requires assimilation.

• 35:41Mike Rowe?

  The kind of culture you're describing at a specific company, in this case WD-40. My question is, does it? Are you hiring people who need to assimilate? Or do you just look for people who are already lined up so squarely with your values? That there's really no friction?

• 36:03Mike Rowe?

  What if, say, five years ago, some big oil company offered a promotion that gave you a chance to lock in the price of gasoline at $2.50 a gallon for the rest of your life? Would you have taken that deal? Or what if a nationwide grocery store had given you an opportunity to lock in the price of ground beef at, say, $2 a pound for as long as you live? Would you have taken that deal? Yeah, me too. Unfortunately, those deals were never on the table, but this one is. Today, as in right now, for a very, very limited time, Pure Talk is offering every American the opportunity to purchase unlimited talk, text, and data, along with a 30 gig hotspot,

• 36:48Mike Rowe?

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• 37:31Speaker 02

  Well, of course, there's friction. You know, I... I'm neither an American or Australian. I'm a human. I have a heart. I care. And that's what we were about at WD-40, is we care. I don't care whether you're... what color you are, what side of the streets you walk on. But, you know, I'm a human, and it comes down to that part of it. You know, life's a gift. Don't send it back unwrapped. You know, we have too much to do here. So if we treat people with respect and dignity, and whoever they are, that's who they are. I mean, I'm a human. I'm...

• 38:07Mike Rowe?

  I heard you say something once. Um, because I actually did do some research. I'm not that blasé about my guests. You said, uh...

• 38:20Mike Rowe?

  What would you do if you weren't afraid?

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:24Mike Rowe?

  And since you've mentioned fear three times already and bravery twice, drill down on that for a second.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:32Mike Rowe?

  And get closer to the microphone because it looks like you're going to say something really important.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:36Mike Rowe?

  I want to make sure everybody hears.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  And in fact, that comes from a friend of mine, Tracy Fenton. She has an organization called World Blue. And it's a wonderful question to ask is, what would you do if you weren't afraid? Now, what would you do? And fear is this disabling emotion that you have. And you have to think about it because in most circumstances, it's the fear that stops us from doing anything. So it's a great question to ask. Now, sometimes the answer is something that you don't want to accept. You know, it's like, I can't do that. I can't. But it's a great question to ask. What are you afraid of and what would you do if you weren't afraid?

• 39:12Mike Rowe?

  It's a bit passive aggressive, right? I mean, it presupposes you're afraid. I mean, are you still beating your wife? presupposes the beatings have been ongoing. But I like it anyway. In spite of it's, right? Because it does. It does force you to think a little differently about the difference between, say, worry, which is adjacent to fear and concern, right? Which is adjacent to responsibility.

• 39:45Mike Rowe?

  But either of those things can tip. And when you're afraid, well, that's adjacent to paralyzed.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Yes, that we talk about the deer in the middle of the road. You know, Mike, fundamentally, I believe we are just these basic human beings bumbling our way down this pathway of life, right? And in the bushes are these thieves. And they're the thieves of anger and greed and, you know, and they come out and they grab us off this path and they take us into the bush. And for a minute there, we think, oh, well, maybe I feel okay here. But if you stay in that bush, you will never, ever get to your destination. So we have to pull ourselves out of there and get back on the path. So the question we need to ask ourselves all the time is, am I being the person I want to be right now?

• 40:38Speaker 02

  And who is that person?

• 40:41Speaker 02

  And why that's so important is that you could be in a meeting or some sort of gathering or something with someone and it ends and let's say you leave and you're a little agitated and now I'm coming to see you. Don't I owe you my best self, not my leftover self from the last interaction? So as a CEO, as a leader, you've got to have that discipline to say, I need to center myself to be my best self because I owe it to the person that I'm now going to interact with because I'm not, I don't want to take my leftover self to Mike. I want to take my best self.

• 41:15Mike Rowe?

  That's interesting, you know, I, because I've heard the argument also posed that you, it's not that you owe the other person, although you do, it's that you owe yourself.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  True.

• 41:26Mike Rowe?

  First.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  True.

• 41:27Mike Rowe?

  You know, I remember an essay, I think Tom Wolfe wrote it, where he, it was a rumination on, uh, not why some people are good and some people are bad. It was why, it was the different reasons why good people do good things. It's pretty nuanced, but I, I thought it was great. He said that, um, you know, today, if a good parent is in a store and their kid steals a candy bar and they see it happen, they take their kid to the side, they walk up to the manager, tell them what you did and then you, then you have this teachable moment.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, learning moment.

• 42:07Mike Rowe?

  Right? You, you have a learning moment and you say to the kid, look, this is wrong because if everybody did what you were doing, the merchant would go out of business and it's not fair, right? And you'd make the case and that's what good people do. A hundred years ago, same exact scenario, it's just whap on the side of the head and it's like, hey man, you do that, you go to hell. You understand? You are, you are robbing from yourself. You are compromising your own soul, the future of the essence of you. You just, you just gave a piece of that away. I, I'm, I'm interested in that and, and, and the way our motivation might have evolved

• 42:50Mike Rowe?

  over time through the lens of why, why do the good thing? The answer today feels a little different to me.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, you know, I.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  I think back, you know, my mom and I, there's a chapter in the book and I think you you mentioned it before, even the Queen sits down to pee.

• 43:10Mike Rowe?

  It's one of my, it's one of my very favorite chapters.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  And my mom, um, you know, in Australia, we have a thing called the tall poppy syndrome.

• 43:17Mike Rowe?

  In New Zealand.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  As well.

• 43:19Mike Rowe?

  Phil Keegan told me all about that, the host of The Amazing Race.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 43:23Mike Rowe?

  I love that. Explain it again.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you get too big for your boots and, you know, people knock you down and, but they do it in a way that's caring, sharing and loving. Oh, yeah, of course.

• 43:32Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, it's nice when that machete just glides through your stem.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  But, you know, I think that, you know, what mom used to tell me was, you know, don't overthink that you're the biggest and best in the world because you're really here to help those that you have the opportunity to help. And, and I think that was really important. And, you know, as I said, my mom lived till she was 99 years and nine months old, three months away from getting a, a letter from the Queen. Maybe she would have told us she sat down to pee at that time, I'm not sure. But, you know, I, I think that, you know, in life, it's, it's, you can choose, you can choose to do good or you can choose not to do good. And leadership is, is tough because you've got to have a heart of gold,

• 44:18Speaker 02

  but you've got to have a backbone of steel as well. It's a balance between being tough-minded and tender-hearted. And if you go to either end of that spectrum, you're not a very good leader. A really tough-minded leader doesn't care about their people. It's all about me, me, me. That's Alec, the soul-sucking CEO. The tender-hearted one has, isn't brave enough to, you know, have that, that conversation because they're protecting their own comfort zone at the expense of someone else's development. But if, as a good leader, as a, as, if you go into a conversation with, I mean you no harm, you know, I'm here to help you, you know, step into the best version of yourself and here's why. And you prove that through your actions over time. You build trust and you build that trust with the people you

• 45:03Speaker 02

  have the privilege to lead. And that's important.

• 45:06Mike Rowe?

  What, what kind of competition do you guys have on a practical level? What other companies are out there with a very competitive product at a competitive price making your life difficult?

• 45:20Speaker 02

  Well, you know, we're in the consumer business, so we're competing against, you know, razor blades and whatever else is out there, because it's shelf space that we're after. But if you really mean product, yeah, there's, there's lots of products out there, but Mike, I spend a lot of my time making sure you don't know the name of them.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  So I guess, well, I'm not gonna.

• 45:41Mike Rowe?

  Well, the reason I ask is that I, I just wonder if you, if you run an organization that is essentially in a, in a knife fight, in a phone booth, where your margins are so skinny, like, well, like razor blades, right? That, that's a, you know, I don't know, like, if I need WD-40, I'm not going down a rabbit hole to see if there's a better option. I know there's not.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Why?

• 46:08Mike Rowe?

  Well, in part, because I'm fascinated by the company in a way that presupposes this conversation. I, I think Norman Lawson's story is really interesting and the way, you know, it came out of the old Rocket Company, and I just like the history of your company, and I like the way innovation informed it. And then I really admire the way some smart marketing people spun that into something golden. And I wonder now, if, if because all those things went that well, you have a special advantage to spend this much time making websites with genuinely happy people and, and writing books like this and talking about all this?

• 46:50Mike Rowe?

  Is it, is it because you were able to so dominate the space that you were able to focus on this? Or is it because you focused on your people and then dominated the space as a result?

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Will of the people times the strategy. It's not an either or, it's a both and. And if you were to ask our end users at WD-40, why do they buy WD-40? You're an honest product, you do what you say you're gonna do, and you're easily available. And, you know, that's one of the strengths of the WD-40 brand. We never positioned the product. Is it an automotive product? Is it a hardware product? Right. Is it a marine product? Is it a household product? Is it an industrial product? Is it used in trades? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. In Walmart, you can buy it in four different departments. Why? Because we never said this is an automotive lubricant. So here's the the essence.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Do you need me is the first question to ask in any new market. I have a story in there that I love. Back in the eighties, when I was based in Australia, I was responsible for taking WD forty into mainland China. Back then, the only way to get into mainland China was from Hong Kong and to by train into Canton. And there was no currency and whatever. But anyhow, I ended up at an automotive trade show. And I had some samples of WD forty and WD forty was built basically on here's my product. Please try it if you like it, please buy it. So the the Chinese word for sample is yangping. And the Chinese word for lubricant is lunwa.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  So here I am in a at a trade show, an automotive trade show, sampling artisans and tradesmen with my lubricant. Yangping lunwa, yangping lunwa, yangping lunwa. I'm in the in the hallways of this trade show. Nobody's paying any attention to me. I thought, ask my Chinese mates, is my pronunciation. They say, no, you're okay. Mike, I look out of the corner of my eye and over there I see a line of people lined up at what looked like a Toyota Motor stand. And they are all walking away with a little brown paper bag with a handle on it. And they're lined up to get it. What the hell is in that bag? They don't want my WD forty, but there's something in that bag they want. So I go over, I look in the bag.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  There's nothing in the bag.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  What's going on? So here's the learning moment. That bag was something that they needed. It was the size of bag that they take down to their local store to bring rice back in. They had a value. So my big learning moment is, well, there was a need. So why don't they need my product? So we do a little huddle and we work out that they don't need a lubricant. They got dirty diesel oil that solves that problem. But what they do need is an anti-rust oil. Because rust and corrosion is something that is getting in the way of them doing their work. So we immediately change the communication, just not saying, here is a lubricant sample, but here is a sample of anti-rust oil.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  Within minutes, we had to have security guards on the stand to stop pushing us over to get that product. Same product, different message.

• 50:12Mike Rowe?

  Different need.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Different need. So if you identify the need, number one, do you need me? Second thing, do you know me? How do I make you aware of me being able to solve your problem? And then can you buy me? How can I make it easy for you to buy my product? And that was really the essence and still is of WD-40 around the world is we are ubiquitous. We are available in so many different places. We're a distribution-driven product. And if the automotive buyer says he doesn't want us, that's okay. We'll go over and sell to the other guy. And in fact, in San Diego, it all started that way. They used to start to sell the product out of the back of their car. And they'd go to the auto shops and their pricing didn't work.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  So they went to the hardware stores and sold it there. Or they went to the sporting goods stores and sold it there. So again, it was that determination of making it easy to buy.

• 51:05Mike Rowe?

  So interesting. You know, I guess you have to choose early on if you're going to, to your point. What's the question? What's the need? And so, you know, Apple would have a different answer than.

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:16Mike Rowe?

  Than Netflix. Two very successful companies, but.

• 51:21Mike Rowe?

  Neither have your name recognition.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  Well, Apple probably does, but.

• 51:24Mike Rowe?

  I bet it's close.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:27Mike Rowe?

  But I, but I bet you there's more cans at WD-40 now.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Well, we're in the US, we're in eight out of 10 households. We're in more, more houses than Coca-Cola. It's just that.

• 51:36Mike Rowe?

  Then you're in more houses than Apple.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Probably, but our consumption, of course, isn't that high.

• 51:42Mike Rowe?

  It's like stepping on gum with you guys, man.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Well, then use some WD-40, take the gum off. It removes gum from the bottom of your sole of your shoes. That's true.

• 51:55Mike Rowe?

  Here's a crazy idea. What if there was an academy out there that paid students to learn instead of the other way around? Specifically, men and women who want to work in the skilled trades. And what if this academy not only paid for your training, but also covered all the expenses associated with your training, like travel and food and lodging? And finally, what if this academy guaranteed you a job at the end of the training period? Well, that's exactly what's happening at America's Workforce Academy by Meta. This is a five-week, highly immersive, pre-apprenticeship program that gets you all the necessary certifications you'll need to start a career in the skilled trades immediately. I'm talking about AI-proof, six-figure jobs,

• 52:40Mike Rowe?

  helping to build out the new infrastructure that our economy is depending on. Electricians, plumbers, HVAC techs, welders, fiber optic technicians. These jobs, they are all in demand like never before. And again, every graduate of America's Workforce Academy is guaranteed a job on a Meta website. I first announced this program a few months ago, and I have been watching the response ever since. It's extraordinary. This is a nationwide, unprecedented fast track to a long-term career in a skilled trade. If you or your spouse or your kid or your grandkid are looking for a straight path into a career with no cost at all,

• 53:22Mike Rowe?

  check out the opportunities for yourself at meta.com/americasworkforceacademy. That's meta.com/americasworkforceacademy.

• 53:34Mike Rowe?

  Just how all purpose did the big brains in the old days know this was like, did they understand what Lawson and his team had invented?

• 53:44Speaker 02

  Probably not, probably not. You know, back in the year 2000, we had, we ran a really interesting program. We wanted, we went out and we asked our end users, we were searching for the 2000 most popular uses of WD-40. So we did a sweepstakes or communication, and this was, you know, back then, that sort of media was not big time. Anyhow, we actually started a fan club, a WD-40 fan club. We had 130,000 members of the fan club, but we had had over 200,000 entries in the United States of people telling us their most favored use for WD-40, which is now on the website. There's a list of the 2,000 identified uses for that blue and yellow can given to us

• 54:29Speaker 02

  by our end users.

• 54:30Mike Rowe?

  So then I'm starting to see some corollaries. You write about the importance of keeping your employees engaged, but that's an example of keeping your customers.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 54:44Mike Rowe?

  Engaged.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:46Mike Rowe?

  So is there a difference in the way you think about it, or does one necessarily just lead to the next?

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Well, if you think about the second value that was in place at WD-40, we exist to create positive lasting memories in all of our relationships. That relationship is with our end users, those we have the privilege to serve, with our employees, those that work for us, with our communities that that give us the right to be there, with the with the environment that allows us to do, and even with our competitors. You know, Simon Sinek has a great.

• 55:14Mike Rowe?

  He's pretty great, man.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  He is. He's a, he's a great guy. I've known Simon for 15 years. We met at a, at a conference we were both speaking at, and I, he gave me an award, and I'm privileged, I think, to call him a friend, but.

• 55:30Mike Rowe?

  What was the award? And get close to the mic when you say it, because you're gonna brag now.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 55:34Mike Rowe?

  I mean, and believe me, if this gets tall poppyish, Chuck pops up.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  I know.

• 55:38Mike Rowe?

  And down you go.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  It was a, an achievement award. It's actually on my website, and he gives out one a year to people he thinks who make a difference, I guess. So it was pretty cool of him. But he talks about not competitors, but worthy rivals.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  And I think that's so important because if you look at the people that you're competing against as a competitor, you're playing behind the game. But if you look at them as a worthy rival, you're playing in front of the game.

• 56:05Mike Rowe?

  That's, that's why I asked about your competition. Iron sharpens iron, right?

• 56:09Speaker 02

  Right. So, you know, we are, you know, like our delivery systems that we developed. I mean, we developed those because we listened to our end users who told us that we would be more valuable to them if we could do certain things. And we listened to them and we took it to them. And I remember when we first brought out that, you know, easy reach delivery system, I was still, you know, in full time employment with the company.

• 56:35Mike Rowe?

  Where's the can? I know you brought one.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  It was here a minute ago.

• 56:39Mike Rowe?

  Where's the, oh, I'm sorry. It's right here. I, I took it. This is what he's talking about.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's it.

• 56:44Mike Rowe?

  It's just, it's basically, I mean, a layman would call it a nozzle.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  That's it. But you, that, that was millions of dollars worth of investment to actually get that to where it is now. You know, one of the things that's interesting about it, we had to make sure, we had to make sure that the product didn't leak out of the, the, the tube.

• 57:04Mike Rowe?

  Right.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  At the, as it went along, you see how it's, and the, the tube idea came from the microphone that you see on, uh, on, on headsets.

• 57:15Mike Rowe?

  Sure.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  So, but anyhow, um, you know, again, we listened to our end users, but as Simon says, you've got these worthy rivals that keep you in front of the game, which is so important.

• 57:25Mike Rowe?

  Well, you know,

• 57:28Mike Rowe?

  the reason Dirty Jobs has been on the air for 22 years, there are a couple of things that happened and I, I'm not a marketer instinctively. I'm fascinated by it.

• 57:38Speaker 02

  You can sell pencils, you are a marketer.

• 57:39Mike Rowe?

  Well, I mean, look, yes, I can tell a story.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:42Mike Rowe?

  But I didn't know at the time how important it was going to be.

• 57:49Mike Rowe?

  Uh, to ask viewers to program the show. And after I ran out of the ideas that I had for the initial run, um, you know, I started inviting people to go to the website and let me know. If you know, somebody's got a dirty job, blah, blah, blah. And then I started to read their letters on the air and thank them. And then we tens of thousands of suggestions.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:14Mike Rowe?

  So the show was essentially programmed by the people who watched it. It was also really hosted by the people who watched it because I showed up not knowing anything and let the expert be the expert, right? That mattered. And then, of course, the behind the scenes cameras that we used. All those things mattered. And I, I wasn't thinking really at the time, like, I wanted that behind the scenes camera because it made my life easier. But what it also did was it showed the viewer, oh, warts and all.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:46Mike Rowe?

  And so they, it, it really elevated trust. So there's a lot of stuff in this book that, that translates like outside of your industry.

• 58:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 58:56Mike Rowe?

  And I guess maybe that's just a long way of setting you up, uh, to ask the question. I'm like, I ask, who's this for? Is it for other CEOs? Or would you think about the knowledge, the insights, the learning moments in the book? Uh, can they apply to TV hosts?

• 59:15Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 59:16Mike Rowe?

  Or garbage men or anyone?

• 59:18Speaker 02

  You know, I, I think the essence of the book is that servant leadership is a key to longevity in life. We're here to serve others. That success is simple, but it's not easy. It takes work. And that, you know, culture is truly a competitive advantage. And, um, I, you know, I, I think that I've just completed my 25 year apprenticeship in leadership. And now I want to share my learning moments around that, which I think is so important. So that's why I wrote the book. I, I want the world to be a better place. And I think there's some learning in there that can help do that.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  Uh, if we can get a hundred people to just act a little differently, it'd be a nice thing.

• 1:00:04Mike Rowe?

  You ever been to Cooper, Pete?

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:00:07Mike Rowe?

  Really?

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  I have never been to Cooperpede.

• 1:00:10Mike Rowe?

  Been to Adelaide?

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  Absolutely. In fact, going to Adelaide again in August.

• 1:00:15Mike Rowe?

  Hmm.

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Mike Rowe?

  Well, all you have to do is drive about three hours north.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  North, yeah.

• 1:00:19Mike Rowe?

  On the road to Cooperpede, which really I don't recommend it. It's a, it's an absolute crucible of disasters. I actually, I, I stopped and, and wrote a song on the way because there was so much exotic roadkill.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:00:36Mike Rowe?

  And I thought they deserved to, you know.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Being recognized?

• 1:00:39Mike Rowe?

  Something.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:40Mike Rowe?

  I mean, we, we all just want to be recognized.

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:00:42Mike Rowe?

  That's what Dirty Jobs was about and that's what good leadership is about and. So where do you go from here? Do you go back to Australia, back to San Diego? Where's home now?

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  San Diego's home. I have a daughter in Australia.

• 1:00:55Mike Rowe?

  Why do you still have the accent then? You're over here.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, when I go back to Australia, that's not what my mates say. I tell you, they give me a hard time.

• 1:01:02Mike Rowe?

  Do they?

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  You know, Australia is my homeland, you know, it's my country. Where I live is where I am right now and. I have a son that lives here with a couple of grandkids and I have a daughter that's there with a couple of grandkids and. You know, we have other family here and I have a place in Hawaii that, in Kauai. Um, which maybe we'll end up there eventually because it's only 10 hours from Sydney and five hours from.

• 1:01:27Mike Rowe?

  It's a great place to stop on the way home?

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, but no, and, and you know, I, I really. One of my dear friends is Marshall Goldsmith and Marshall was the number one executive coach in the world and. He wrote a great book called What Got You Here Won't Get You There. He was coached to Alan Mulally from Ford and, you know, whatever and. And Marshall gave me some really good advice as I was getting ready to refire. I haven't retired, I refired.

• 1:01:54Mike Rowe?

  No, that's clever.

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  And he said, Gary, don't float into a void. And I said, what do you mean by that, Marshall? And it's the last chapter in the book. And I think it's really important for people. Who are going through seasons in life. He said, you've been the CEO of a US public company for 25 years. It is actually you. And unless you decide how you're going to pay it forward after that. On September 1, when you are not the CEO anymore, don't wake up without a purpose. Because you will not know what to do next. And I said, you're right, Marshall.

• 1:02:26Mike Rowe?

  What, what was the quote again? Don't go into the void?

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  Don't float into a void.

• 1:02:30Mike Rowe?

  Don't float into the void. That's terrific.

• 1:02:34Mike Rowe?

  Can I tell you two super quick CEO stories?

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  I'd love it.

• 1:02:37Mike Rowe?

  So, John Hendrix is my favorite, or, well, he's certainly in the top two. He invented the Discovery Channel. And he did it basically from his garage and twisted like John Malone's arm and got some satellite transponder space and then licensed some documentaries from Australia and just started beaming them down. He had no money. He mortgaged his house. He did the whole thing. And his whole brand was built on a, like to your earlier point about like, who are you? Like, what is the point? Distill it, right? His was satisfy curiosity. My second was, I did a few hundred commercials back in the day for Ford.

• 1:03:19Mike Rowe?

  And Alan Mulally, since you invoked his name, had taken over around the same time they hired me. And I'd been there about a year and, of course, everything went to hell and, oh, God, the collapse. And you'll remember the, all the CEOs sitting there before Congress. And I was home watching this. And this is the first time, really, I got agitated and in a positive way. Like, this is the first time I said to myself, with the possible exception of John Hendrix, I want to work for this man. And the fact that I already was didn't matter. But when he sat there, Gary, and they went down the, like, these

• 1:04:02Mike Rowe?

  guys, they literally were kissing the ring, right? Like, they had to give their salaries back in order for the government to bail their companies out at Chrysler and GM and so forth. And so they kept the dollar in salary and so forth. And they finally got to Alan and he said, no, I'm gonna go ahead and keep my salary. You go ahead and keep your money. If the Ford Motor Company can't make it on its own, we don't deserve to make it.

• 1:04:30Mike Rowe?

  Now, I'm a, I'm not a sentimentalist, I'm a little cynical, truth be told. But that hit me like a ton of bricks, man. And I wanted to work for that guy when I heard that, and I was so glad that I sort of was.

• 1:04:47Mike Rowe?

  But my business partner, Mary, reached out and said, "Look, we're all in with this company right now." Because I'd never been around a company that bet on itself and its own people at that moment in time to that degree. And, you know, they're not WD-40, but there is, you talk about values and you talk about character.

• 1:05:07Mike Rowe?

  You never know where you're gonna find them.

• 1:05:08Speaker 02

  You know, and I've had the privilege and honor of being in the presence of Alan many times because he's a dear friend of Marshall's. And his byline is, "Love 'em up. Love your people up."

• 1:05:21Mike Rowe?

  It's so true, man.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  And one of the great leaders of all times, and I've learned so much from Alan.

• 1:05:28Mike Rowe?

  All he did was save aerospace and then save the automotive sector.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 1:05:33Mike Rowe?

  I was giving a talk, a keynote speech, to 100,000 Boy Scouts on the occasion of their 100th anniversary. And I was about to go onstage, and I just had a meeting with Alan. We had dinner, it was terrific, and I remember that he had been a Boy Scout. He had mentioned it to me. And I just called him real quick, and I said, "Hey, I'm gonna go talk to 100,000 Boy Scouts right now." You know, "Do you have a message for them?" And he said, "By a Ford."

• 1:06:06Mike Rowe?

  And I laughed, and I said, "No, seriously, is that a message?" And he said, "Well, I mean, there's so many ways to go." And I said, "Well, let me ask it like this. I'm going out with the message, a scout is clean but not afraid to get dirty." And he said, Mike, that's that's one of the smartest things I've ever heard. And my chest puffed up. It was such a compliment.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:30Mike Rowe?

  I guess really the place to land the plane here is just to say you, you, you, you really don't know what your words will do.

• 1:06:37Mike Rowe?

  Right?

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  So true.

• 1:06:38Mike Rowe?

  Because you don't know who's listening and you don't know who needs to hear what, when. So you write your book and you give your speeches and you say your thing. And then you hope it lands.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, um, again, I really believe in what I said to you earlier. Life's a gift. Don't send it back unwrapped. And, you know, if we can't make a difference in the world, you know, Ken Blanchard and, and often says, you know, it's, it's that eighty, ninety year old you and, and who, who, who will remember you and why? So, you know, be a little kinder, be a little gentler and have a heart of gold and a backbone of steel, but make a difference in the world.

• 1:07:14Mike Rowe?

  He's got two Rs in his name, but don't hold it against him. It's Gary Ridge. He talks funny too, but I think he's got a lot of great things to say. I love the title. Any dumb ass can do it. And I love what's between the covers as well. Congratulations.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you for letting me come and share it with you today. And the other thing I'm, I'm really grateful for is my co-writer Martha Finney. She's a huge fan of yours.

• 1:07:35Mike Rowe?

  Who is she?

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, um, she, she was, just did a wonderful job in helping me with this. So.

• 1:07:42Mike Rowe?

  Well, Martha Finney's got great taste. Let's send her a picture when we're done here.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  Absolutely. She would love that.

• 1:07:47Mike Rowe?

  And a, and a bill.

• 1:07:50Mike Rowe?

  We'll cover the picture with, with WD-40. It'll be a one of a kind. Thank you again, Gary Ridge. I appreciate it.

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 1:07:57Mike Rowe?

  If you leave some stars, could you make it five? And before you go, could you please subscribe?

• 1:08:03Speaker 03

  If you leave some stars, could you make it five? And before you go, could you please subscribe? If you leave some stars, could you make it five? And before you go.

• 1:08:30Speaker 04

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