‘The Pitt’ S2E7 and an ‘Industry’ S4 Mailbag. Plus, Trailers for ‘The Mandalorian and Grogu’ and ‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3.

Chris and Andy talk about the new trailers for ‘The Mandalorian and Grogu’ (7:07) and ‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3 (12:56). Then they open up the mailbag to read through some listener questions and concerns about this latest season of ‘Industry’ as a whole (25:11). Later, they discuss Season 2, Episode 7 of ‘The Pitt’ (42:01). Drivers wanted. Learn more at http://vw.com Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Additional Video Supervision: Jamie Yukich and Donald LoBianco Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I'm pro-football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit MDDAllies.com to watch my story.

• 0:25Speaker 01

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• 0:37Speaker 02

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• 1:24Speaker 02

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

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• 2:22Speaker 03

  Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more, or visit tremfyaradio.com.

• 2:36Speaker 04

  I need support staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk now.

• 2:41Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me in the studio, going analog, it's Andy Greenwald.

• 2:54Andy Greenwald?

  We have a lot to talk about.

• 2:54Chris Ryan?

  We have so much to talk about. I'm in a great mood. It's great to be back with you and Kai here at Spotify, where we make podcasts. I hope you're listening to us on Spotify. You can email us at [email protected]. Some great emails about industry. I'm still sort of sorting through them because a lot of them are comments more than questions.

• 3:13Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, like my dad at a film festival.

• 3:16Chris Ryan?

  And you can follow us on the Instagram at thewatchpod underscore, and you can watch us here on Spotify or on YouTube at the Ringer-TV channel.

• 3:25Andy Greenwald?

  So we're gonna do pit, we're gonna do some trailers, we're gonna do some industry talk. I mean, we got some stuff at the top.

• 3:31Chris Ryan?

  We got stuff at the top. I'm feeling great. I was, you know what was happening today on the way in? First of all, I just, I don't know why, I'm just in a good mood. Second of all-

• 3:38Andy Greenwald?

  I'm gonna interrogate this in front of you.

• 3:40Chris Ryan?

  I was, do you ever, when you're driving, you get into the flow state, and you're like, I'm him, I'm Ryan Gosling in Drive. And I was listening to, I know this guy's canceled, kind of, but I was listening to Sun Kill Moon.

• 3:52Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 3:53Chris Ryan?

  And you know that song Gentle Moon that was in Fry at Lights when Street and Riggs go to New York? I was listening to that, and I was like, there is no road. You know what I mean?

• 4:03Andy Greenwald?

  I interviewed that guy in a Austin motel 26 years ago during South by Southwest, and I, I don't know if I emerged alive. Like, that may have been, that was a weird-

• 4:13Chris Ryan?

  This has all been a dream since then.

• 4:15Andy Greenwald?

  Honestly?

• 4:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you're still in that motel room.

• 4:17Andy Greenwald?

  I could wake up in that bathtub without a kidney, but with a haunting acoustic melody playing in my head.

• 4:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but at least Trump wouldn't be president, right?

• 4:23Andy Greenwald?

  Fair.

• 4:23Chris Ryan?

  In this dream that you're having in the Austin motel.

• 4:25Andy Greenwald?

  Oh my god, can you imagine? It's like, that was that James Franco Hulu series about the Stephen King, the time travel to stop the Kennedy assassination, but it's all to stop Obama from making fun of him at the White House Correspondents' Dinner.

• 4:36Chris Ryan?

  No!

• 4:36Andy Greenwald?

  No jokes!

• 4:40Chris Ryan?

  And then we'd be fine. We would be.

• 4:42Andy Greenwald?

  Fine. I wanna, you hate shit like this, but we gotta talk about it. Monday?

• 4:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:48Andy Greenwald?

  President's Day.

• 4:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:49Andy Greenwald?

  You took the day off.

• 4:50Chris Ryan?

  I didn't.

• 4:50Andy Greenwald?

  I worked. Health reasons.

• 4:52Chris Ryan?

  I did multiple pods that day.

• 4:54Andy Greenwald?

  DNP.

• 4:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:55Andy Greenwald?

  Coach's decision, you're the coach.

• 4:57Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 4:57Andy Greenwald?

  I just wanna like, put on the record what you missed, because would, you know, people like to pull back the curtain a little bit, and people don't know that, that there are torrential rainstorms in Southern California this week.

• 5:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:07Andy Greenwald?

  And after we wrapped our, our podcast, Spotify flooded.

• 5:12Chris Ryan?

  Well, I mean, there was some flooding.

• 5:14Andy Greenwald?

  Some flooding. Okay, management.

• 5:16Chris Ryan?

  It's not like in Crimson Tide when we lose Rick Schroder. You know what I mean? It's like, it was, you guys had some water on the ground and you had some complications about which door to get out of.

• 5:25Andy Greenwald?

  Here's the thing that I wanna talk about, and Kaya, feel free to jump in. First of all, you know, crises reveal character.

• 5:31Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 5:31Andy Greenwald?

  That's something I've said since the White House Correspondents Dinner in 2012, or whenever that was. And I do think we lacked your head-on-a-swivel, let's-get-this-done leadership. Cause I think, as we've discussed, every time we talk about a dystopian zombie show, we all agree you do great.

• 5:47Chris Ryan?

  I started to wonder about that.

• 5:49Andy Greenwald?

  Really?

• 5:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:49Andy Greenwald?

  What about you in the flow state?

• 5:51Chris Ryan?

  Well, that's like when I'm listening to Gentle Moon.

• 5:53Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, so you just put the little AirPods in, crank up Red House Painters?

• 5:58Chris Ryan?

  Like Baby Driver.

• 5:59Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 6:01Andy Greenwald?

  And then get us all out of here.

• 6:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:03Andy Greenwald?

  Because what was insane about being here was that the, the courtyard was raging waters. It was like, you know, it was shin-deep. Is that fair?

• 6:12Chris Ryan?

  Um, yeah, come on, dude, relax.

• 6:14Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not saying I was, I'm not, my point is not that we were in danger. You're misunderstanding. You weren't here. Okay?

• 6:21Chris Ryan?

  I saw your, your content you made about it, though, where you were taking pictures and sending them to me.

• 6:25Andy Greenwald?

  Just to you, though.

• 6:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:26Andy Greenwald?

  That's a private feed.

• 6:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:28Andy Greenwald?

  My point wasn't that it was-

• 6:29Chris Ryan?

  You were gatekeeping that footage.

• 6:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, okay. My point wasn't that it was dangerous. My point was, no one would let us leave, and then at one point, we were like, there are unflooded streets out these doors. And the gentlemen who work here said, well, these are emergency doors. And I was like, aha.

• 6:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but it wasn't an emergency. If it was just like, if it was like, truly waves of water coming, I'm sure he would be like-

• 6:50Andy Greenwald?

  Then we'd be allowed to leave?

• 6:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. But it was probably like, ankle shin-deep. What, what was it?

• 6:55Andy Greenwald?

  Look at this boot looking. Unbelievable. Thank God I was wearing boots, cause I got out of here. Kaya, did you, you, you were calm, cool, collected? Well, I wasn't really providing a lot of solutions to you.

• 7:05Chris Ryan?

  Either I was kind of just like, I don't know, Andy, you're gonna have to wait it out. You like to get out of here when this is over.

• 7:10Andy Greenwald?

  But she also said, I misunderstood you. You said you're gonna have to wait it out. And I waited my way to the parking lot. That was what happened.

• 7:17Chris Ryan?

  I was like, I have a meeting. I'm sorry, I can't help you. And then five minutes later, I got a video of Andy splashing through some puddles.

• 7:25Andy Greenwald?

  I did share the, I shared with Kaya too, by separate channels. Cause I didn't want, you know, I don't want the streams to cross.

• 7:30Chris Ryan?

  You and I, we text about Fred again and underworld in the streets. And you and Kaya talk about rain. Do you want to talk about any of the trailers that have dropped this week before we get into? The pit and other stuff?

• 7:40Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I do.

• 7:41Chris Ryan?

  I mean, there's some, there's some interesting stuff. I'm trying to think if there was any like, news and news aside from.

• 7:45Andy Greenwald?

  You don't want to talk about the streets and underworld?

• 7:47Chris Ryan?

  I mean, Fred again had a, like a four night residency at Ali Pally.

• 7:52Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't know about this guy. I don't understand. I thought he was like.

• 7:54Chris Ryan?

  That guy is mad popular.

• 7:55Andy Greenwald?

  I thought he was like Rufus Du Soul, these other acts that I don't understand that play Hollywood.

• 7:58Chris Ryan?

  You never saw the video of Fred again making a beat in front of Zane Lowe?

• 8:02Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 8:03Chris Ryan?

  When he's like.

• 8:04Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, do it.

• 8:05Chris Ryan?

  And Zane Lowe is just like, god damn. It's like, it's very funny.

• 8:07Andy Greenwald?

  One of my favorite things in my now three to four hours of knowing about Fred again, was that he grew up like, he grew up in the Wilshire countryside next to Brian Eno.

• 8:18Chris Ryan?

  Do you, do you check someone's biography as soon as you come into contact with them to like, start placing their education, their background?

• 8:26Andy Greenwald?

  That's why I don't drop Sun Kill Moon references anymore. I, I was born with receipts. Okay? I mean, it might be, must be fun to shoot from the hip all the time, but.

• 8:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Uh, anyway, I was, I was, when I got back from the, from dinner last night, I come, I came across this.

• 8:44Andy Greenwald?

  But so, so Fred again, who is a big deal that I knew nothing about.

• 8:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, huge, huge. Real big with the kids. Real big, real big with everybody. I mean, I think, I think it expands beyond generations.

• 8:52Andy Greenwald?

  Well, it does now.

• 8:52Chris Ryan?

  And he had a residency in London at the Alexandra Palace, the Ali Pally. And, um, had Mike Skinner, AKA The Streets, performing with him. And he had. Uh, The Streets was like kinda doing his rap over Born Slippy, which is the iconic anthem of Trainspotting from Underworld.

• 9:13Andy Greenwald?

  Darren Emerson comes out, drops the, drops the heavenly keys.

• 9:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:16Andy Greenwald?

  And then Mike Skinner came out and did the verse from We Become Heroes.

• 9:19Chris Ryan?

  And then Carl came out.

• 9:21Andy Greenwald?

  Carl came out.

• 9:21Chris Ryan?

  And did.

• 9:22Andy Greenwald?

  And finished them.

• 9:22Chris Ryan?

  Born Slippy, and when the beat dropped on Born Slippy, it was like, yeah.

• 9:26Andy Greenwald?

  That's why, that's what I.

• 9:27Chris Ryan?

  John Wick, make it end now.

• 9:29Andy Greenwald?

  Everyone within seven years of us in either direction, just check on them today. They probably need a hug. That was very, very meaningful.

• 9:37Chris Ryan?

  Okay, let's start with The Mandalorian and Grogu.

• 9:42Andy Greenwald?

  You love talking about this movie.

• 9:44Chris Ryan?

  Well.

• 9:44Andy Greenwald?

  You're gonna zag.

• 9:45Chris Ryan?

  Still don't know what it's about.

• 9:46Andy Greenwald?

  Well, it appears to be about some beloved cartoon characters making the leap to live action.

• 9:51Chris Ryan?

  That's not what a movie can be about. Interesting that.

• 9:54Andy Greenwald?

  Where have you been the last five years?

• 9:56Chris Ryan?

  Interesting that this trailer drops.

• 9:57Andy Greenwald?

  Hmm.

• 9:58Chris Ryan?

  And this is the week that Steven Soderbergh decided to break his silence about The Hunt for Ben Solo.

• 10:03Andy Greenwald?

  Did he? Wait, I didn't.

• 10:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, cuz he's doing a residency.

• 10:06Andy Greenwald?

  Did Fred again bring him out? Wait, Fred again just brought out all your heroes. Taylor Sheridan comes out to read the scripts from Lion is Season Three.

• 10:15Chris Ryan?

  But you see how Turo comes out, he's like, we are in the land of wolves now!

• 10:19Andy Greenwald?

  Then Bill comes out to reiterate that they're doing Sicario to rewatchables. How many people are backstage? It's like a clown car.

• 10:26Chris Ryan?

  Um, I thought it was, it was, I doubt it was in any way tied to it.

• 10:30Andy Greenwald?

  Wait, so what did Soderbergh say?

• 10:31Chris Ryan?

  Soderbergh is doing a sort of artist in residency at the Nighthawk Cinema in New York, where he's presenting, I think, like 10 or 11 movies that have shaped him as a filmmaker. Uh, he did an interview, uh, can't remember where it was, um, about talking about that. And then at the end of the interview, he kinda got into the Ben Solo stuff. And, you know, usually I would describe him as candid, but incredibly.

• 10:57Chris Ryan?

  Abled, incredibly able at like deflecting and kind of being like, oh, it's not that big of a deal and blah, blah, blah. He was like, no, I wasted two years of my life on it. And we were a go, like, this was a go picture. And they canceled it without being like, what's the budget? Like, he's like, I'm pissed. And me and Adam and Rebecca Blunt, who I think is Joel Zasner, right? That's the pen name.

• 11:19Andy Greenwald?

  That's such a sick pen name.

• 11:22Chris Ryan?

  I, I think it's cool that he and his wife have all these different pseudonyms for the different jobs they do on his movies. In any case, he was just like,

• 11:30Andy Greenwald?

  It's what keeps it spicy.

• 11:31Chris Ryan?

  I'm salty that I had made the movie in my head.

• 11:33Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 11:34Chris Ryan?

  We were like, we were getting going.

• 11:37Andy Greenwald?

  He says nearly three years. Time inflation.

• 11:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. But I mean, the thing is, Steven sort of were quote unquote wasting three years of his life. He made nine movies in that time.

• 11:45Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. And he watched every season of Below Deck again and blogged about it.

• 11:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. So I thought it was interesting that his comments about Ben Solo came out the same week the Mandalorian and Grogu, because it's almost like, you know, the, the road is diverging into two paths.

• 12:00Andy Greenwald?

  Hmm.

• 12:01Chris Ryan?

  And, and we have taken the one where it's a lot of creatures jumping around.

• 12:06Andy Greenwald?

  Baby Greedo is our future.

• 12:08Chris Ryan?

  Is he in this?

• 12:09Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 12:10Chris Ryan?

  I did not read a frame by frame breakdown of this. I did not, Baby Greedo?

• 12:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 12:14Chris Ryan?

  The same guy?

• 12:15Andy Greenwald?

  We don't know. Maybe it's, maybe it's Grogu. You know what I mean? Like, I, we, we have to learn. We as a people have to get better. And we can't just assume just because there's a little version of something that it's a baby of the other one.

• 12:28Chris Ryan?

  Well, that was my mistake initially with Grogu, right? We were all like, it's Yoda. This is his origin.

• 12:33Andy Greenwald?

  That was my mistake with Austin Butler, too. I was like, he's a movie star. Not sure about that yet.

• 12:38Chris Ryan?

  You don't think so?

• 12:39Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not sure.

• 12:40Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 12:41Andy Greenwald?

  I, I didn't mean to like do a drive by. We don't know yet.

• 12:43Chris Ryan?

  We get a little bit more of.

• 12:47Andy Greenwald?

  Look at, look at, you're being, you're like that dude on CNN right now. Just asking questions.

• 12:52Chris Ryan?

  What dude?

• 12:52Andy Greenwald?

  Scott Jennings.

• 12:54Chris Ryan?

  I am not being like Scott Jennings.

• 12:55Andy Greenwald?

  You're just like sitting back. You started this fire. Disney released this new trailer because of you.

• 13:01Chris Ryan?

  Well, I think that in the same way that I was concerned that they felt the need to do a send up of the Budweiser Clydesdale's commercial.

• 13:09Andy Greenwald?

  They did, yeah.

• 13:09Chris Ryan?

  During the Super Bowl, I'm equally concerned that they were like, oh shit, we better show Pedro Pascal. Like a lot.

• 13:17Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, yeah.

• 13:19Chris Ryan?

  Like, cause, cause maybe nobody wants to see this movie.

• 13:22Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Chris Ryan?

  For real.

• 13:22Andy Greenwald?

  It's so much, can you imagine like in, like in broadcast news, like someone running up to Kathy Kennedy's office and just putting out a piece of paper on her desk?

• 13:30Chris Ryan?

  And she's not there.

• 13:30Andy Greenwald?

  And she's not there, the desk is empty, and Dave Filoni is sitting like in the chair in the corner. You know what I mean?

• 13:36Chris Ryan?

  I think I know what you mean.

• 13:38Andy Greenwald?

  And, and the piece of paper just has like Eddington's box office numbers. They're like, get me that face. Get me that face.

• 13:44Chris Ryan?

  Get me the mayor from Eddington.

• 13:46Andy Greenwald?

  Put him in this movie.

• 13:47Chris Ryan?

  Did you see Eddington?

• 13:48Andy Greenwald?

  No, that's on my list, though. I mean, pre-Oscar's list, not that it was nominated, but.

• 13:52Chris Ryan?

  Um, so yeah, I just think that, I still don't know what this movie's about, but I think from my understanding, the young people of, the very young people out there are very excited about this. And I, I support them.

• 14:06Andy Greenwald?

  Kaya?

• 14:07Chris Ryan?

  Not Kaya's age.

• 14:08Andy Greenwald?

  No, but Kaya knows about Fred again.

• 14:09Chris Ryan?

  Single digits.

• 14:10Andy Greenwald?

  What are the kids saying about, about Mando and Grogu? Use some slang, too. Say low key.

• 14:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:16Andy Greenwald?

  Say orafarming.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Kids are, kids are, fuck.

• 14:22Andy Greenwald?

  This is so exciting. Kai, clip this.

• 14:24Speaker 03

  I'm trying to figure, how do I work, how do I work looks maxing? Kids are, kids are Grogu maxing.

• 14:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, they're Grogu maxing.

• 14:32Andy Greenwald?

  They're Muppet maxing in this trailer.

• 14:33Chris Ryan?

  Any other takes on Mandalorian?

• 14:35Andy Greenwald?

  I don't know. Let, let, we should get like Matt Bellany on, like I just, like genuinely.

• 14:39Chris Ryan?

  Matt Bellany, we should do a pod with Matt Bellany.

• 14:41Andy Greenwald?

  I agree.

• 14:42Chris Ryan?

  Matt Bellany is down.

• 14:44Andy Greenwald?

  But only about his appearance on the studio.

• 14:46Chris Ryan?

  No, I want to talk to Matt about all the ins and outs, man.

• 14:48Andy Greenwald?

  I do, too. His Ted Sarandos interview was fascinating that he just did. But I, I like, I guess this hasn't hit tracking yet.

• 14:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I guess not.

• 14:57Andy Greenwald?

  But they just keep dumping more creature slop into this, and I don't understand the purpose.

• 15:03Chris Ryan?

  I think the purpose is to get children to come see it, and if enough kids, if enough parents have to take their kids.

• 15:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 15:08Chris Ryan?

  To this movie, it's gonna be successful. If it's like dudes who still haven't gotten over Lottie and Andor, probably not.

• 15:15Andy Greenwald?

  It's true.

• 15:15Chris Ryan?

  For them.

• 15:16Andy Greenwald?

  For what it's worth, when this new trailer aired, my children sat up straight on the couch and they were like, that's the guy who had leg surgery in Materialist. Let's go!

• 15:24Chris Ryan?

  That's a good line.

• 15:25Andy Greenwald?

  Thanks.

• 15:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Another parallel that I'll draw here is that it's the week of the season finale of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms.

• 15:32Andy Greenwald?

  Already?

• 15:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:34Andy Greenwald?

  I know, but I wasn't trying to like, you got worried for a second. No, that's a bummer. I enjoyed it.

• 15:40Chris Ryan?

  You sounded some reservations about the last episode. I could never tell really where you're going and when you're buying and selling shows.

• 15:46Andy Greenwald?

  I love the show.

• 15:46Chris Ryan?

  Okay, we've got the last episode of that, but today I saw the new trailer for the third season. It's a teaser really for House of the Dragon.

• 15:56Andy Greenwald?

  And you didn't gatekeep it. You sent it to me.

• 15:57Chris Ryan?

  Right away. You know, James Norton joins the series this season.

• 16:02Andy Greenwald?

  Saw him.

• 16:03Chris Ryan?

  You saw him in the trailer.

• 16:05Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 16:05Chris Ryan?

  I thought you meant like-

• 16:06Andy Greenwald?

  No, I did the Leo on the couch thing.

• 16:07Chris Ryan?

  At the Delta One Lounge or something like that.

• 16:09Andy Greenwald?

  Well, it's possible with me.

• 16:11Chris Ryan?

  And I was struck by the, how different it feels, how different it feels.

• 16:16Andy Greenwald?

  From what we've gotten used to the last few weeks, yes.

• 16:17Chris Ryan?

  Hearing Matt Smith be like, "Today you turn into king, you're really gonna be the queen now."

• 16:24Andy Greenwald?

  That's quite a transition. But, you know.

• 16:26Chris Ryan?

  That's not what I mean.

• 16:27Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 16:28Chris Ryan?

  I just, I'll have to adjust to get back into House of the Dragon mindset, you know, of flying, big flying beasts and, and literally Game of Thrones rather than the kind of more street level and more character-driven stuff that we've been watching. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean that House of the Dragon can't kind of correct course from where it was, and I think adding some cast members will at least be interesting, if not a saving grace. Anything you took away from this?

• 16:58Andy Greenwald?

  I am not eager to get back to this world. Not Westeros generally, but this version of Westeros. It's been a long time, so I don't really remember.

• 17:07Chris Ryan?

  Forgot about, I think I forgot what's happening on the show.

• 17:11Andy Greenwald?

  It was weird that in updating us, like, they showed us a lot of the main cast, they showed us some new cast, but my favorite dynamic character from season two, the weirwood tree, that had about 50% of the screen time with Matt Smith, like, what happened? Maybe the fire, like, that's what happens to that wood? I do remember a lot of those scenes.

• 17:30Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, we'll see.

• 17:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:31Andy Greenwald?

  Like, weirdly, enough time has passed that now when they showed Fabian Frankel, I was like, that's my guy.

• 17:37Chris Ryan?

  I know.

• 17:37Andy Greenwald?

  Cross-o.

• 17:38Chris Ryan?

  We're so fucking down for-

• 17:40Andy Greenwald?

  I've 180'd on him. I'm mostly excited for him.

• 17:45Andy Greenwald?

  I guess the most charitable response to something that's a teaser, so we don't know anything yet, is that they have had enough time now, both making the show and reacting to the making of the show, to know what they are doing and have a couple reps now. And infamously, season two ended on the cusp of the big battle that people were excited about.

• 18:06Chris Ryan?

  Everybody's marching off. So I would imagine season three begins with it unless it's like some throw clearing before we get to it.

• 18:12Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, and, you know, did Casey confirm it? But I think the sense is that four seasons is it for the show.

• 18:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think he said, like, I leave that up to the creators, but with something that's as expensive as this. And, you know, there's a finite amount of story. They're moving through it.

• 18:27Andy Greenwald?

  What's crazy to me is how quickly high-quality TV can change one's perspective and opinion about things. Because I did pick up just some headlines and some chatter with Ira Parker, who's the showrunner of Night of the Seven Kingdoms. People were asking him about, I mean, they're shooting season two now, but asking about potential seasons that could outpace the novellas.

• 18:47Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 18:48Andy Greenwald?

  And I know diverging from George R.R. Martin's sacred texts is controversial. And now the strict Scalia-esque reading of that is now back in fashion.

• 18:58Chris Ryan?

  Although, Ira Parker's credit, like, there's several things in this season of Night of the Seven Kingdoms that are either mentioned briefly as text or not in the books at all. And he's kind of, not embellished, but had a flourish. So I don't, this is the problem, is that Martin's working pretty closely on Night of the Seven Kingdoms and has talked about how he has ideas for several more novellas than have actually been published. That's where you start to get into late period of Game, late period Game of Thrones, when it's like, well, we have the blueprint, but we don't have the actual working documents.

• 19:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 19:30Chris Ryan?

  I would hope that with something that's as compact as this, they're able to kind of, you know, I don't even know if there needs to be 10 seasons of this.

• 19:40Andy Greenwald?

  All I was gonna say was, that made me excited. If they could, if they could make this a regular occurrence, Dunkin' Egg having adventures, fixed location adventures for a couple of years, what a delightful addition to the HBO programming slate that would be.

• 19:58Chris Ryan?

  You know, one of the things that was interesting about the Stoderberg Ben Solo idea was one of the few franchise ideas that actually was going forward, unless of course it was like Ben Solo actually in a hotel room with Sun Kill Moon in 2002.

• 20:14Andy Greenwald?

  Hunching the wall like a narrative story.

• 20:15Chris Ryan?

  Everything is a dream, but it was basically this, you know, it was going to continue to push that, that franchise forward rather than doing prequels and historical lookbacks. And Thrones is kind of creeping up on that precipice as well, where I think they could continue to do great historical moments in the history of the realm, but it seems to be very little interest on the Martin side in having a Arya or Jon Snow show.

• 20:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 20:44Chris Ryan?

  Or whatever happens after this.

• 20:48Chris Ryan?

  But I, you know, I wonder how many, how many of these, like, you know, can you do the, I don't know, not the Blackfire Rebellion, because it's in, it's in Night of the Seven Kingdoms, how many like historical events in Game of Thrones can you do before anybody is like, hey, could we like see what happened after Daenerys?

• 21:06Andy Greenwald?

  I think that, but that's also, my only response to that good observation is that's one of the other reasons why Night of the Seven Kingdoms is such, is such a success. Because it's, it is going historical, but it's also going kind of sideways and in a different lane.

• 21:21Chris Ryan?

  Well, it just feels different.

• 21:23Andy Greenwald?

  At a different speed.

• 21:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:23Andy Greenwald?

  And that is as significant as anything else, I think, when you're trying to mine IP for multiple seasons and multiple years across multiple corporate regimes.

• 21:33Andy Greenwald?

  I'm sure one of the most fascinating things that we could ever get access to probably would be the

• 21:41Andy Greenwald?

  Game of Thrones development history of 2020 until present day of just like how many pitches they've heard, what directions they've gone, because I would imagine they've actively engaged on almost all of them.

• 21:52Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I'm sure.

• 21:52Andy Greenwald?

  Including ones that would not necessarily, may ultimately push the story forward with characters we know, but might just be like, yeah, we're in Essos now.

• 22:01Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 22:02Andy Greenwald?

  We're telling that story.

• 22:03Chris Ryan?

  We gotta get out of this Snow Lannister or, you know, Stark Lannister Targaryen triangle.

• 22:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, it's cool, but I think the other lesson, hopefully, you know, this is just wish casting, the lesson that I hope these people learn is that it is very much about the people you empower to tell the stories as much as it is the stories that you choose to pursue.

• 22:22Chris Ryan?

  I had two more things for you in news. Did you have anything for news headlines?

• 22:26Andy Greenwald?

  Well, these trailers.

• 22:27Chris Ryan?

  Uh, it's not, this isn't a headline. This is more of a personal observation and a cry in the dark. Zero Zero Zero, one of my most beloved shows of the decade so far. Something that we talked about a fair amount during the pandemic when we were recording from our living rooms and stuff and from our offices. And I had Andrea Riseborough on the show to talk to her about the series. It's an example of a time when Prime Video, Amazon's TV's philosophy was kind of like, let's give this filmmaker and a ton of money and see what happens. And, you know, you got things like Too Old to Die Young and some

• 23:08Chris Ryan?

  of the Soloway stuff. Zero Zero Zero is definitely my favorite thing to come out of Amazon Prime's early days and it is now no longer available on Amazon Prime.

• 23:17Andy Greenwald?

  No, how did you find out?

• 23:19Chris Ryan?

  I was looking for it the other day because I was, I was gonna be talking about-

• 23:22Andy Greenwald?

  Because Eyes Wide Shut ended and you were like, let's keep the mood going?

• 23:25Chris Ryan?

  Sean and I on the big picture are talking about Crime 101, the movie, and also stuff that's been influenced by Heat. And I was like, oh, I wonder how many TV shows I could come up with that could be credibly- Influenced by Heat and 000 was at the top of my mind because of the way that some of the gun battles work. So I was like, oh, you just fire up some vampiros and it's not there. It's gone.

• 23:46Andy Greenwald?

  That's a bummer.

• 23:47Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Too Old to Die Young incredibly still on the surface, even though it was never, ever promoted by, by anybody at Amazon. But it just goes to show you, man. I mean, the more, the more streaming services we get, there are still things falling through the cracks.

• 24:00Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:00Chris Ryan?

  Um, so I, I got, I got 000 on Blu-ray.

• 24:03Andy Greenwald?

  Did you?

• 24:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I don't know. This is not a conversation you probably are like dying to have. It's just like, this sucks that like these, this is gonna happen. Um, that we're, especially if we get the merger one way or the other towards Netflix or Paramount. I wonder how many, how many series this is gonna happen to.

• 24:20Andy Greenwald?

  M- most of them, I think, other than the like, the, the, the prizes that get kicked around.

• 24:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:27Andy Greenwald?

  Speaking of Heat, which is, doesn't get a lot of airtime across the Ringer property.

• 24:31Chris Ryan?

  It's still sort of a cult thing.

• 24:33Andy Greenwald?

  You, I thought you had a good conversation with Bill about Miami Vice.

• 24:36Chris Ryan?

  Oh, the other day?

• 24:37Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, on the bucket. You, you did a great mailbag appearance.

• 24:39Chris Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 24:40Andy Greenwald?

  It was really good.

• 24:40Chris Ryan?

  I really appreciate that.

• 24:42Andy Greenwald?

  I thought, I thought it was really entertaining. I thought you had some very good points.

• 24:44Chris Ryan?

  About Miami Vice?

• 24:45Andy Greenwald?

  Well, about Michael Mann's filmography.

• 24:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:47Andy Greenwald?

  And how across all of them, there is a man looking out over an expansive water.

• 24:52Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 24:52Andy Greenwald?

  From his weirdly expensive house.

• 24:54Chris Ryan?

  Sparsely modern living room. Yeah.

• 24:55Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, it was a really good point. Um, it did make me think, and I know we have some industry questions, but I, I feel like there's more, there's, there's more meat on the mailbag bone for us.

• 25:05Chris Ryan?

  You and me?

• 25:05Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 25:06Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 25:06Andy Greenwald?

  Cause I feel like we, we do them often like when there's a holiday or we're pre-recording and recently, especially with the email address, we've gotten really good questions.

• 25:14Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 25:14Andy Greenwald?

  But the questions we do tend to fall into one of two categories, like what are the best shows of prestige TV and what ranking? Or what books do you guys reading?

• 25:23Chris Ryan?

  You know what?

• 25:23Andy Greenwald?

  And I feel like we could do, I'm not saying we're gonna turn into like-

• 25:25Chris Ryan?

  Sometimes when you see your students and they're not achieving, you gotta look at the teachers.

• 25:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. It's not the questions. It's us.

• 25:30Chris Ryan?

  Our industry responses were quite good, cause you and I, which we probably should disagree more, but what can we do about that?

• 25:39Andy Greenwald?

  We're just buddies.

• 25:40Chris Ryan?

  There's some slight- It's like disagreement about where this season of industry is at.

• 25:44Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Chris Ryan?

  And we asked kind of, we asked our listenership to weigh in on where they were at. We got a lot of finance bros.

• 25:54Andy Greenwald?

  Oh boy.

• 25:54Chris Ryan?

  Writing in and just being like the EBITDA, you know, like.

• 25:57Andy Greenwald?

  I'm sorry?

• 25:57Chris Ryan?

  The EBITDA and like, like the valuations of things. But generally speaking, I think it's like 50 50, pretty split. It's like most, there's a contingent of people who kind of are still really, really, really, really vibing with the show and kind of thinking about it somewhat in the way I am. And then there's a healthy, a healthy group of people who are like, I don't know if this Russia thing works for me. And I don't know if I can track Harper's character arc.

• 26:22Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 26:22Chris Ryan?

  Anymore. And I kind of miss kids at their first job going out at night.

• 26:27Andy Greenwald?

  Sure.

• 26:28Chris Ryan?

  As if it was ever that innocent. But yeah, some really great questions.

• 26:32Andy Greenwald?

  It was a great segue. I was just gonna say we should do more like life advice segments.

• 26:36Chris Ryan?

  Just you and me giving life advice to other people.

• 26:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, because we, we got it. I mean, not for nothing, we nailed it.

• 26:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I'm just a dude who gets overwhelmed by two inches of water.

• 26:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. Well, no, I got out and I'd like to teach others. What is the value of me surviving if I can't lift up others?

• 26:53Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 26:55Andy Greenwald?

  A rising tide.

• 26:56Chris Ryan?

  Very Noah's Ark of you. What's going on?

• 26:58Andy Greenwald?

  That's what it was like out there. Are you crazy? They needed two of every kind of podcaster and all we had was white men in glasses. So.

• 27:07Chris Ryan?

  Oh, Greenwald.

• 27:08Andy Greenwald?

  It's tough.

• 27:10Chris Ryan?

  This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. It can be hard to do your own thing when everyone else is following everyone else. But that's what some of the best films are about. An outcast striving to make their own way in the world. And this is your sign to be that outcast. From us, from VW, from the other outcasts out there, take a chance. Make the most of every day and don't be afraid to veer off course every now and then. Because if you don't do it now, then when? Learn more at VW.com.

• 27:41Chris Ryan?

  These emails are relatively long. They're longer than usually we get for our mailbag, but I think I'll try to throw some out there. These are Industry Season 4 emails. So if you haven't watched Industry Season 4, I definitely would skip.

• 27:54Andy Greenwald?

  I also, just in context, and not just to gas you up, but I also enjoyed hearing you talk to Bill about Industry because it was a helpful reminder that as the show's audience has grown, the segments of audience has diversified as well, so that there are like a portfolio, if you will. That it was interesting just to hear his perspective of like what he likes about it and what he was saying about what other people in the parts of the country might like about it.

• 28:18Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 28:19Andy Greenwald?

  And that it is, it is interesting to note that like as a show becomes more successful, the fanbase is no longer unified. It's not like one face of the fandom that likes the show because of vibes, or because of finance, or because of ketamine.

• 28:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:37Andy Greenwald?

  Like that there are, that there's different, there's different ways to engage with the show.

• 28:40Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I mean, there's plenty of people I'm sure who watch it because it sounds really good and people look cool on it. And I don't mean that in a bad way because I watch some shows that are like that, but it's really nice to watch these people sort of move in and out of beautiful spaces as Nathan McKay music plays.

• 28:55Andy Greenwald?

  The other awesome thing about it that I think speaks to something that we've have long been passionate about is that the opportunity that Sunday Nights on HBO gives to creators who are ready, talented, and willing to take it is still unmatched.

• 29:07Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 29:08Andy Greenwald?

  In the sense that the show has a week-to-week stature and pride of place that allows and like encourages conversation. And so there are people watching Industry this season who maybe haven't watched previous seasons, who maybe aren't liking the season or have different opinions about the season, but because it feels significant and it's cumulative and it does not, as we've been saying in ways both praising and criticizing, it does not shy away from the moment, that makes it feel a certain kind of way, a certain kind of special.

• 29:40Chris Ryan?

  Uh, here's an email from Will. Longtime listener, first-time writer, and once-an-investment banker here. After hearing Andy express possibly for the first time a few reservations about Industry on the most recent I wanted to write in and share a few thoughts of my own. For context, I usually avoid shows and movies about the world of finance because they tend to simultaneously hit too close to home and turn me into a pet ant about little inaccuracies. Succession was the rare exception, and when it came to industry, rave reviews of earlier seasons convinced me to give it a try. Despite some obvious artistic liberties, the first season did manage to hook me, especially after Harper's Wrong Way Cable Sterling Dollar pair trade with Aubrey. I kind of remember that.

• 30:20Andy Greenwald?

  Like the hairs in the back of my neck stood up, even though I don't remember anything about it.

• 30:24Chris Ryan?

  The way the writers had her escalating each batshit crazy move with the neither even crazier one was completely outrageous, yet also elegantly plotted and true feeling to her character. And I, just as me talking, I think ultimately, this is where I net out with any show about a very specific discipline, which is that I do not care if it is true, I care if it feels true.

• 30:44Andy Greenwald?

  Absolutely.

• 30:45Chris Ryan?

  I don't really go to industry to be like, is this how people trade currencies? I'm going to industry to feel like it feels real. As the show evolved, I stuck with it despite feeling its realism and believability fading with each season. But season four really jumped the shark for me. First, while the show was never particularly concerned with versumilitude, it felt to me like the creators became progressively less interested in that aspect to the point where key plot points were based on things that made no sense. And then he goes into a lot of stuff about Eevee, EBITDA, multiple, Bill Adler's ouster,

• 31:19Chris Ryan?

  like a bunch of stuff about Harper and Petra's fund being up 600 million and then shorting Pier Point, etc. We can ask Mickey and Conrad about that. As it relates to season four, I agree with Andy that the writers are trying to stuff too much plot into eight episodes and in the process creating clunkiness and telling not showing character. Behaviors that don't make much sense. For example, I understand that for plot tension reasons, the Tony Day turn and Eric Sol's sacrifice are two big dramatic turning points in season four, episode six. But while dramatically impactful, neither made much sense to me. If tender stock was down 30%, the market has clearly lost faith in the narrative that management, including the CEO and CFO, have been weaving. So why would a lower ranking employee going on TV to defend that very same narrative? Have any ability to assuage those doubts and turn the stock around.

• 32:04Chris Ryan?

  So that kind of stuff.

• 32:05Andy Greenwald?

  But your point, I think, is a really important one to make. We are not interested, I think we share this and we encourage other people to engage with art this way, too. It's like, we don't go to a gallery, we don't go to a painting, a gallery filled with paintings to look for photographs. We're going to see emotion, artistic sensibility, artistic decision making, and to see what can be communicated in non-direct, non-reproductions of life.

• 32:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:33Andy Greenwald?

  And I have, as someone who proudly sits here before you, volunteering to give you life advice, who knows nothing about financial anything. Any criticism I have about industry this season, none of it has anything to do with losing the third rail of verisimilitude.

• 32:48Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 32:50Andy Greenwald?

  If anything, I think it speaks to a happy marriage between Mickey and Conrad's changing interests, which is good for creators to stay curious and to chase what interests them more, as well as the necessities of an ongoing TV show where it is, if the beginning, maybe it's about characters feeding the narrative and feeding the plot, later it becomes bending the story and bending the situations to feed the characters.

• 33:15Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 33:15Andy Greenwald?

  So that all, that all works, that's fine for me. And I think one of the things that they've done really well from the beginning is, like you said, communicating what matters on an emotional level about those moments and scoring them appropriately, directing them, editing them appropriately as well.

• 33:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I'll always use the Moneyball example as what we're talking about here, where the adaptation of Michael Lewis's book, The Brad Pitt Film, feels true, even though I know

• 33:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 33:43Chris Ryan?

  that the pitching staff of The Oakland A's had a lot to do with their success that season and are never mentioned in the movie.

• 33:50Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 33:50Chris Ryan?

  Except for Chad, what's his face, who does the submarine?

• 33:54Andy Greenwald?

  The funky submarine arm. No, and there's Ricardo Rincon.

• 33:58Andy Greenwald?

  Wasn't he a relief pitcher?

• 33:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, he was. Did they get him?

• 34:01Andy Greenwald?

  That's the trade. That's the trade.

• 34:02Chris Ryan?

  But it's not Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder and Barry Zito.

• 34:04Andy Greenwald?

  I just have very few opportunities to prove that I've re-watched films. You know what I mean? So I just wanted to drop that.

• 34:10Chris Ryan?

  And they had a good closer that year, too. It wasn't Keith Folk, but it was like...

• 34:13Andy Greenwald?

  Is that later? Why are we doing this?

• 34:16Chris Ryan?

  I don't know. Sorry.

• 34:17Andy Greenwald?

  Will is gonna write back in and be like, "Some notes about your mangling. As a longtime fan of Rettisery League Baseball, you are disgusting."

• 34:26Chris Ryan?

  Greetings from Caracas.

• 34:27Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, wait. Last thing.

• 34:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I'm sorry.

• 34:29Andy Greenwald?

  No, not about baseball. We're gonna talk about The Pit in a minute. The Pit is rightfully praised for its accuracy about emergency room medicine. And we have often gotten... We've got... We get messages, but also clearly the culture understands that people who work in the medical profession are by and large fans of The Pit because they're like, "I've never seen this level of accuracy before." They could all be gaslighting me. Every single thing that they say on The Pit when they need a trauma room could be lies.

• 35:00Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 35:00Andy Greenwald?

  It could be gibberish.

• 35:01Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 35:02Andy Greenwald?

  And the show would still work. And I think that's an important test. Like, the reason that the show is exceptional, to me, is very little to do with the fact that they can spout differential diagnoses for almost any circumstance.

• 35:13Chris Ryan?

  Right. Well, let's get into another email here from Oscar from Caracas, Venezuela.

• 35:18Andy Greenwald?

  Oscar, close the laptop. Lot going on.

• 35:21Chris Ryan?

  "I just wanted to say, season four of Industry is quickly becoming one of my favorite seasons of television. I agree that it is not flawless, but something being not perfect is usually a sign of greatness in the sense that it shows more raw identity and intent, rather than meticulous restraint."

• 35:35Andy Greenwald?

  I agree with you, Oscar.

• 35:36Chris Ryan?

  That's... Put that on my tombstone.

• 35:39Andy Greenwald?

  Also, why are you dying?

• 35:43Andy Greenwald?

  Not just your core belief system.

• 35:45Chris Ryan?

  "I disagree with Andy regarding episode six in the sense that it is much, quote, 'in-character' for the series to progress that way. They do not waste time in overexplaining what you already can know because you understand the characters based on previous seasons and the not-dynamics between each other." For example, Harper's reaction to Eric's statements on CNN. "I always got the sense that Harper had doubts about Eric's..." Abilities because she doubts everyone's ability in front of her own. Furthermore, I agree with Chris regarding the bleakness of Rishi and Eric's return. Nevertheless, I just found the whole sending off for Eric to be really emotional. One of my favorite sequences this season is their conversation throughout the episode where Sweet Pea and Quabena go to Accra. It provides a lot of context as to why they feel towards each other at all.

• 36:29Chris Ryan?

  I admit the FSB side of things is a risk taken that feels off putting. But is that not a reason why we love Mickey and Conrad? Sorry for the rant. Don't turn on industry. I'm not turning on industry.

• 36:39Andy Greenwald?

  No, I mean.

• 36:40Chris Ryan?

  And that FSB shit is real, man. Read about it.

• 36:45Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, I thought blink twice.

• 36:48Chris Ryan?

  No, just, they get up to some nasty work, man.

• 36:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, yeah, they're they're low key winning, as my daughter would say.

• 36:57Andy Greenwald?

  About Animal Crossing or something. Look, I just praised how how the experience and the engagement. Afforded to industry by the week to week thing. This point that Oscar brings up very well is what makes this a challenge because. And in addition to the fact that like nuance in 2026 and on podcasts is hard like. I love this show and I love this project and I will always choose exactly how he described it like running towards risk and. Making potentially making wild mistakes, much like Harper, over conservative. Television making, particularly when you have the bully pulpit that these guys have. The fact that to my mind so far, there have been stumbles.

• 37:41Andy Greenwald?

  Ultimately makes me more affectionate.

• 37:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 37:44Andy Greenwald?

  About the project.

• 37:44Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 37:46Andy Greenwald?

  But it's been a challenge because we are in the middle of something quite audacious with the season, not the middle. We're now rounding third.

• 37:52Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 37:53Andy Greenwald?

  In the Moneyball sense of things, so we'll see.

• 37:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, to speak to your will see, I'll end on this email from Jake.

• 37:59Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 37:59Chris Ryan?

  I started my career as an M and A lawyer at a magic circle firm in London and have enjoyed watching industry since day one.

• 38:05Andy Greenwald?

  I'm Googling magic circle firm.

• 38:06Chris Ryan?

  I am somewhat surprised to hear some pushback from Andy and Chris about the direction of the season.

• 38:12Andy Greenwald?

  Do you know what that it? Magic circle firms are an elite group of five London headquartered law firms. They're renowned for high stakes corporate banking and M and A work. That's a cool name.

• 38:21Chris Ryan?

  That is a cool name.

• 38:21Andy Greenwald?

  Magic Circle.

• 38:22Chris Ryan?

  To me, this is the best homage to Michael Mann I have seen since Tenet. No one in Miami Vice or collateral talks like a real person. And frankly, very few people in finance talk like real people either.

• 38:31Andy Greenwald?

  True.

• 38:32Chris Ryan?

  In each case, the players are professionals carrying degrees of hollowness that are necessary for survival.

• 38:38Andy Greenwald?

  Hmm.

• 38:38Chris Ryan?

  Much like any espionage tale, Mann's protagonists know that standing on principle often means certain death. The dramatic tension for us as viewers is witnessing when they choose to take that stand and suffer the consequences, e.g., Eric on CNN. I would be curious to know what each of you think the show needs to accomplish in the next two episodes. You continually express admiration at the risk taking on an episode to episode basis, but it sounds like you need something more grounding. Is that a through line emotional arc, character growth, or something else? Happy, blah, blah, blah, and thanks for making your podcast.

• 39:11Andy Greenwald?

  So before we answer the question, I would like to digress slightly.

• 39:14Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 39:15Andy Greenwald?

  And say that as perhaps American podcasts, two biggest fans of Tony Gilroy. I love people who talk like this. And we know Mickey and Conrad love Tony, the person and the screenwriter. And it's a great, it's a great style to chase and to pursue. I think that my criticism of some of the language this season is related to my criticism of the real estate problem. In this show's history, in the first few seasons, there was a more equitable, it felt anyway, equitable split between work hours and nightlife hours. Now, obviously, the core tenet of the show is that everything is everything all the time.

• 39:57Andy Greenwald?

  But often, the excesses of adrenaline during the day would be equaled with the excesses of drugs and alcohol at night, which would lead to a different kind of intimacy and honesty that would then feel even more raw in the harsh glare of the trading floor in the next morning. And I felt like there was a balance created between the types of conversations people would have in suits and out of suits. Earlier this season, there was a scene at In Somerset.

• 40:22Chris Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 40:23Andy Greenwald?

  I believe it's a Henry's party, but I may be conflating events. But there is a Harper and Yasmin scene where they are talking.

• 40:32Chris Ryan?

  Oh, they're being really snippy with each other.

• 40:34Andy Greenwald?

  Well, no, they're being snippy often, but they're being a little more intimate and like they are friends. And yeah, they're being a little snippy with each other, but they're being, it's from a place of peacefulness between them as opposed to where the season was inevitably going. And I think Yaz is chopping up lines or something, which makes it tonally consistent with the previous three seasons.

• 40:49Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 40:51Andy Greenwald?

  As the story has ramped up this season, we've lost a lot of those scenes. And so now, whenever characters speak to each other, they are wearing their power suits and they are speaking

• 41:02Andy Greenwald?

  in their Tony Gilroy monologues to each other. And for me, that throws off the balance.

• 41:07Chris Ryan?

  Sure. So for you, the answer would probably be feeling like that, hey, we took the masks off intimacy coming back in the last couple of episodes to make you feel a little bit closer to the characters.

• 41:21Andy Greenwald?

  And for what it's worth, like, everything we're talking about is the project, which is why I'm always trying to be careful about how we criticize or even discuss it. The fascinating aspect of Rob and what made him so essential in the balance of the show was that when the drugs came out and when the alcohol started pouring, he became more vulnerable and more honest. And that kind of made him more at risk. Because the other characters just became heightened versions of themselves to a different degree. But he was always leading with his bleeding heart. And that character and that, that energy is, is gone now.

• 41:56Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, so just, you, you just notice it. But like, the point you made so well the other day when we were talking about the episode is like, there is no division anymore because Eric is living where he is working. This is a like, forest, not trees, brilliant iteration of the show. It's where it was always going. It's, it's not just defensible, it's an excellent. Idea.

• 42:17Chris Ryan?

  I saw.

• 42:18Andy Greenwald?

  But but execution is where I'm starting to get tripped up.

• 42:21Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 42:21Andy Greenwald?

  You can you can defend and not just defend, you can make really strong arguments in favor of every decision, which is the sign of a quality program.

• 42:27Chris Ryan?

  There's a fan edit floating around, basically, you know, like when people make their own montage and and stuff like that of mixtapes of of of television shows or movies. And there's one that's basically Eric's speech from the first episode of the series.

• 42:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 42:43Chris Ryan?

  And he talks about how.

• 42:44Andy Greenwald?

  With a baseball bat or is that later?

• 42:45Chris Ryan?

  Can't remember if he has a baseball bat. I think it's like when he's doing the actual like, welcome to Pier Point speech. And he's talking about how half of you will not be here when we get to the end. And then it kind of goes through all the people who have been vaporized by this business or, you know, from death to choosing to go do something else, to being exiled to America, to being, you know, where Eric is now. And now Eric is one of the half of the people that he is talking about. And I don't know, I think as long as the show keeps its nerve when it comes to stuff like that and it. I think the problem I have when shows or movies or anything dabbles in the real like

• 43:26Chris Ryan?

  Michael Mann shit like that is that they don't have the guts to follow through. And then at the end, it'll be like, no, actually, he just needed to like, kind of connect with his trauma and now he's fine. It's like, that's not how this works. These people aren't fine. Like, that's why they are the way they are in the first place is because they're not fine and they don't get fixed within the 45 minutes to an hour of a television show or two hours of a movie. So as long as it holds its nerve, I'm I'm down.

• 43:53Andy Greenwald?

  It's gonna hold its nerve. The show, I mean, shows become. Main characters are often avatars of the spirit of the show and the show is Harper. And the show doesn't give a fuck.

• 44:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 44:03Andy Greenwald?

  And the show is not going to be filled by your by the numbers, trauma, or your. I'm trying to think like what happened, like what was Don Draper's weakness was that he was going to get found out. Well, Harper got found out early on.

• 44:15Chris Ryan?

  Like midway through the first season.

• 44:16Andy Greenwald?

  Didn't matter.

• 44:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. But then it turns into a long term trading of secrets and lies between these people.

• 44:23Andy Greenwald?

  What undid Tony Soprano? He had weird dreams.

• 44:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 44:27Andy Greenwald?

  Harper doesn't dream, man. She doesn't even sleep. So not worth.

• 44:48Chris Ryan?

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• 45:00Chris Ryan?

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• 45:44Chris Ryan?

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• 46:12Andy Greenwald?

  Great.

• 46:13Chris Ryan?

  Let's do the pit.

• 46:15Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 46:15Chris Ryan?

  Uh, this will be for the, what is this? 2pm?

• 46:19Andy Greenwald?

  1pm.

• 46:20Chris Ryan?

  Look, man, it doesn't really matter.

• 46:21Andy Greenwald?

  2, oh, see, I come in with the episode number.

• 46:23Chris Ryan?

  Do you know what it is? You know what time it is? It's fucking Jack Abbott time. Cause we scream ACAB, except for Jack Abbott. You know what I'm saying?

• 46:32Andy Greenwald?

  All cops are beautiful doctors.

• 46:34Chris Ryan?

  This guy, on his time off.

• 46:37Andy Greenwald?

  This is so funny.

• 46:38Chris Ryan?

  Is doing field medicine for SWAT teams.

• 46:41Andy Greenwald?

  My guy comes in in full camo drip with a gunshot impact wound from stopped by his vest that he attempts to self-surgery.

• 46:52Andy Greenwald?

  This reminds me of when you show up for the watch, having done four other podcasts in your free time.

• 46:56Chris Ryan?

  I just need to say that this show jumped up a notch when he showed up. Like, it is the absolute, it's the example of, um, you know how like Trent Dilfer once said about quarterbacks? There are thermostat guys and thermometer guys?

• 47:11Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 47:11Chris Ryan?

  So that you have to... Some change the temperature, some read the temperature.

• 47:15Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 47:16Chris Ryan?

  This is what he's talking about.

• 47:17Andy Greenwald?

  Which one, which one is he?

• 47:19Chris Ryan?

  Thermostat.

• 47:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, wait.

• 47:20Chris Ryan?

  Thermostat comes in, you change the temperature.

• 47:22Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, he changes the temperature.

• 47:23Chris Ryan?

  Some people react, some people proact, you know, or whatever. It's like...

• 47:28Andy Greenwald?

  Which one, which one are, which one are we?

• 47:30Chris Ryan?

  I think you're, you're more reactive. I think you really feed off of my energy. Yeah.

• 47:34Andy Greenwald?

  I do. It's 100% true.

• 47:36Chris Ryan?

  Jack Abbott was a necessary shot in the arm in a show where there are lots of shots. And I thought he was fantastic, but I'm almost skipping the lead here. Because this show knows what it has in Catherine Lannasa. There's been, the first few weeks of this season, obviously, like a lot of memes about Baby Jane Doe. And, you know, Dana's perhaps losing the, the, the hold on the Pittsburgh accent. There's, well, there's been some talk about, about whether, where that accent is going.

• 48:09Andy Greenwald?

  I don't, by the way, it's 1:00 PM. I, I don't, yeah, we don't need to dwell on that. I don't think she's ever done a Pittsburgh accent. She's doing Delco.

• 48:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, uh, she's extraordinary in this episode. Um, and this is why this show is more than just like a really cool piece of ER karaoke. And like a great kind of, the dignity it bestows on almost every single person who comes onto that screen is kind of... I can't really think of too many other television shows that I've seen do this.

• 48:38Andy Greenwald?

  The genius, like absolute god-tier artistry of this show is not where we thought it was going to be. The headlines about the pit before it premiered was, this is going to be an ER slash broadcast-style medical show, done for the prestige era in real time. And everyone, us included, understood that to mean it'll be gorier, it'll be more intense, and it will do more formalist trickery because it's given itself this almost painterly challenge of real-time storytelling.

• 49:12Andy Greenwald?

  Sure, it did all that, and that wasn't even a stress for it. The incredible achievement of this show is really coming into focus this season in the way that in the midst of the chaos, it finds pockets of space for absolutely reverent, and as you said, deeply respectful recreations of actual medical emergencies. The fact that in episode seven of season two, there was enough space, and they had enough confidence to take the space, to have Dana show us what it means to be an emergency response for sexual trauma nurse.

• 49:50Chris Ryan?

  Yes, a sane.

• 49:51Andy Greenwald?

  I got the letters wrong. But most shows don't have time for that. Slower paced shows don't have the time for that.

• 49:59Chris Ryan?

  The pit probably shouldn't because of the way a typical, I don't even know what a typical episode is anymore, but finish your point. I didn't mean to cut you off there.

• 50:06Andy Greenwald?

  No, you did. That's the point. It finds these pockets of air to do these stories and to do them well. We joke about how there are moments where, you know, essentially the characters like turn to the camera and deliver Act Blue emails to us, which, you know, guilty, can't spam them all. But nothing about the representation of this traumatic event and how it plays out with people like Dana, it felt canned or forced or declarative. It was just living. And in the midst of an episode in which, as you said, Jack Abbott comes in in camo and is just like,

• 50:49Andy Greenwald?

  "You're gonna make it, buddy. We've just found the hole in your trachea." It's a miracle.

• 50:54Chris Ryan?

  Obviously, it's a very like raw and volatile moment. You know, this character, Alana, is a rape victim. And Dana, and I believe Emma is the first day nurse.

• 51:08Andy Greenwald?

  You said it's sane. It's sexual assault nurse examiner. And when they first say sane, I thought they were saying saint, which also works.

• 51:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and you know, it's strange to be like, this is really savvy storytelling about something like this. But the fact that you bring along the first day nurse allows Dana.

• 51:27Chris Ryan?

  A to say, you should sign up to be one of these because we need one and we need more of these nurses in hospitals. Two, it allows her to walk the nurse through it step by step.

• 51:39Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, like the audience.

• 51:40Chris Ryan?

  So there's basically a double VO. It's like Dana's explaining to the victim, here's what I'm going to be doing, here's what I'm going to be doing. And then she can turn to the nurse and be like, here's how we save this sample for collection later. And here's like why the chain of evidence needs to be strict because of X, Y, and Z. And it's a just absolutely extraordinary piece of television. It's very hard to watch. It's very, but I think it's sensitive and it's straightforward and it doesn't adorn it with music and it doesn't have unnecessary like banter or anything like that. Like it is what it is. And I, I thought it was just a great, a great act of television making in this episode. And Lenas is fantastic in it.

• 52:24Andy Greenwald?

  Something I believe in my bones is that good storytelling isn't complicated. It's fucking hard.

• 52:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 52:31Andy Greenwald?

  But it's not complicated. And as obvious as it seems now that we're enjoying the fruits of this decision, someone in this creative team and in this writer's room had to walk in one day at the Warner Brothers lot and was like, well, the way to give Dana more screen time is to do what we did in season one with the doctors and she needs a resident. And now all of those avenues of storytelling and of teaching are now available to this character. And that gives us different ways into these rooms and different ways to, the beauty of the show and why I never get tired of talking about it is because we can praise it for the storytelling and the drama and the performances, but we can also break down the X's and O's.

• 53:15Andy Greenwald?

  And that when you give more story to the nursing staff, everyone else gets a breather. Everyone else can move more naturally between rooms.

• 53:22Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah, when Perla and Princess and Dana are rolling around, yeah.

• 53:24Andy Greenwald?

  When you, when you spread the offense like that.

• 53:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 53:27Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, that's, that's the Sean Mannian method, I believe.

• 53:30Chris Ryan?

  This, I think, will stand as like where the season turned. If I express some reservations about.

• 53:37Chris Ryan?

  You know, what a, what an average temperature episode of The Pit felt like. I always, I always enjoy watching this show. It was really more of a just like, we're, what, what does this show do when it's not Apocalypse Now at this place? And I don't have to worry about that anymore because obviously the episode ends with this cyber attack or like a, at least a feared one.

• 54:01Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 54:01Chris Ryan?

  And before we get there, I did want to talk a little bit about Al Hashimi, Dr. Al Hashimi, who's another person that we've been kind of not concerned trolling about, but just kind of concerned about like, you know, it's been six hours. We're going to get another wrinkle to this person other than them walking in and saying generative AI all the time. What did you think of the hints of something going on with her as the young man who is sort of arrested and or brought in after being tased in his school library? He's developing, I don't know if schizophrenia, bipolar disorder.

• 54:37Andy Greenwald?

  He's presenting some concerning mental illness.

• 54:39Chris Ryan?

  And as I believe, was it Javadi talks about that with the parents of this kid? Al Hashimi seems to have a moment.

• 54:48Andy Greenwald?

  A panic.

• 54:49Chris Ryan?

  A panic, goes into a bathroom and calls her neurologist.

• 54:52Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 54:53Chris Ryan?

  Uh, we don't really know what's going on there, but what did you think of adding a layer to her?

• 54:58Andy Greenwald?

  Dude, also, if an attending ER physician has to do the press two to make an appointment menu with doctors, we are cooked. Like that made that's, that stressed me out more than anything. Someone give her a real life person to talk to. I mean, it was troubling for the character clearly, but promising for the storytelling and of a piece with the other thing that these guys just seem to be just preternaturally gifted at, which is anticipating audience temperature and reaction. There was a period of time, like the, the, the dawning of like fan internet, when like television without pity existed. And that was like the, the early message board where people talked about TV

• 55:43Andy Greenwald?

  in a different way, um, in terms of being like fans, but also critical and also talking about the craft. And there was a real dividing line. And this is like in the early, like 2004, five, six, seven, eight of people, so pre Grantland even, but. Some creators engaged with it and some people didn't. But probably everyone looked.

• 56:02Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 56:02Andy Greenwald?

  And you could probably do a forensic examination of some of the TV from that era and be like, they got too deep in the boards because things became reactive. You know, like what Lost did to Nikki and Paolo is an example of reading the audience reaction to it and just hitting the ejector seat on whatever plan you have in a kind of vengeful way. What the pit is doing at such an advanced level is it just seems to understand like the electorate.

• 56:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:31Andy Greenwald?

  Last week was our breaking point with Al Hishimi. This week we get depth. One thing that I've noticed in the pit fandom is that the past two weeks seems to have been a breaking point with super fans with Santos. There's a lot of fan anger, hatred, like of this character. She's so mean, she's so whatever. This is the episode where they cleared a little space for her to show those Broadway chops.

• 56:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:59Andy Greenwald?

  And sing. And that knowledge of like when to drop a little bit more to draw you back in is masterful.

• 57:07Chris Ryan?

  I fully disagree with any.

• 57:09Andy Greenwald?

  I don't agree with the criticism, but please give me the.

• 57:11Chris Ryan?

  I just think that that character is different than she was in the first season.

• 57:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 57:15Chris Ryan?

  I think that her stresses and her attitude in this season are rooted primarily in her mixed feelings about Langdon being back and avoiding him. And, you know, the pressure that she's feeling to finish this, the second year of her residency or whatever year of the residency that she's now worried about having to redo if she falls behind too much on her paperwork. And she's sort of being used as an example of the bureaucratic and clerical pressures that doctors are under outside of, outside of, of, of, of the actual day to day job that they have to do. I think it's pretty interesting that she and a couple of these doctors, I believe,

• 57:58Chris Ryan?

  would be now having to choose what to do with their jobs. So I.

• 58:02Andy Greenwald?

  That came up with Javadi.

• 58:03Chris Ryan?

  It did make me wonder. Whether we'll have some cast turnover.

• 58:07Andy Greenwald?

  It's inevitable.

• 58:07Chris Ryan?

  Practically speaking, we probably should, yes.

• 58:10Andy Greenwald?

  They did a rather, rather large time jump. So they are now, these, these are all in, into their second years, basically. They could do a shorter time jump to keep them in their current places. They could inevitably.

• 58:23Chris Ryan?

  July 6th.

• 58:26Andy Greenwald?

  Robbie's just rumbling away on his motorcycle. Just know while he's sitting the season out. I inevitably, some of these young pups will be like, emergency medicine is my calling.

• 58:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:38Andy Greenwald?

  But I think you're right that some won't. Some might move upstairs to other departments and then we might expand the aperture of the show to them coming in and out. You know, the show won't really go upstairs that often.

• 58:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it seems like it's very dedicated to staying within the emergency department and the ambulance bay of the emergency department.

• 58:53Andy Greenwald?

  Sometimes the roof.

• 58:54Chris Ryan?

  Sometimes the roof. I mean, it's essentially, if a doctor goes somewhere, it opens it up to following them, but for the most part, it seems like it shoots.

• 59:03Andy Greenwald?

  You were saying before about industry having the courage of its convictions. I mean, the pit is designed to be forward-thinking and nimble and also backwards-looking and comfortable.

• 59:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:15Andy Greenwald?

  There could be a breaking point when it will have to make tough decisions about fan favorites or about, you know, losing people to gain people that may be controversial. And that, but that's all, that's all in the future. In the, in the meantime, making those kinds of future decisions part of the story, it's important.

• 59:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:33Andy Greenwald?

  And so like, for example, we learned this week that Javadi has a fun dad.

• 59:37Chris Ryan?

  Fun dad.

• 59:38Andy Greenwald?

  Really like that plotline. That like, I just felt like that was really, really a cool choice. Fun dad likes, what does he like? Pickleball and whiskey?

• 59:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:47Andy Greenwald?

  Great. Great. He has like a fun handshake with his daughter.

• 59:50Chris Ryan?

  And the mom's like, give up pickleball or, you know.

• 59:52Andy Greenwald?

  Give up both?

• 59:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:54Andy Greenwald?

  She's tough.

• 59:55Chris Ryan?

  Have you noticed, um, I saw you were speaking of pit fandom. They're very attentive. Uh, the fandom is very detail oriented.

• 1:00:03Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not trying to straw man the fandom that like, if I go on the Reddit website, it's all pit stuff now to me and it's all like fucking Santos.

• 1:00:09Chris Ryan?

  It's not, this is not the way I watch this show, which is like looking for clues and threads and mysteries. I, I, you know, there's a couple of things that I've, I've noticed that they have, you know, this helmet thing with, with, uh.

• 1:00:21Andy Greenwald?

  With Robbie.

• 1:00:22Chris Ryan?

  With Robbie has come up a bunch. The Al Hashimi thing with her talking to her neurologist. A couple of people have pointed out that she has done very little hands-on doctoring.

• 1:00:34Andy Greenwald?

  It's true.

• 1:00:35Chris Ryan?

  So like.

• 1:00:35Andy Greenwald?

  She says, do you need help in here a lot?

• 1:00:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Robbie and Abbott are often like, I'm shoving a Nerf ball into this guy's abdomen to like, keep it inflated. She's like, I instruct others.

• 1:00:46Andy Greenwald?

  She's quite clean.

• 1:00:47Chris Ryan?

  But I don't know, I don't know whether that's worth noting in relationship to whatever she's talking about to her neurologist.

• 1:00:54Andy Greenwald?

  That's like a soccer thing, right? He keeps a clean jersey. No, no, it's a clean sheet.

• 1:00:59Chris Ryan?

  Clean sheet, meaning.

• 1:01:00Andy Greenwald?

  And baseball is the, baseball is who you want to get.

• 1:01:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you want to get dirty.

• 1:01:02Andy Greenwald?

  You slide a little bit.

• 1:01:03Chris Ryan?

  Charlie Hustle.

• 1:01:04Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 1:01:04Chris Ryan?

  Uh, just, just saying, that's out there. It's floating out there.

• 1:01:07Andy Greenwald?

  So what, what, where do we think that's going?

• 1:01:09Chris Ryan?

  That she could have a neurological problem that's affecting her hands.

• 1:01:13Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, wow, I didn't see that coming at all.

• 1:01:16Chris Ryan?

  That's a guess. This is just, I, I, I am nothing, I'm just a conduit.

• 1:01:20Andy Greenwald?

  What kind of doctor are you?

• 1:01:21Chris Ryan?

  I go out, I get the information, I bring it to you and I share it with everybody else. And I take no responsibility for the information.

• 1:01:26Andy Greenwald?

  Well, you fit right in on the internet. This is, you, you, you found the perfect medium for your particular set of skills.

• 1:01:32Chris Ryan?

  I really have.

• 1:01:33Andy Greenwald?

  It is amazing.

• 1:01:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:34Andy Greenwald?

  We still all talk about that. All of us, the old gang from New York. When a man.

• 1:01:39Chris Ryan?

  Chris got in a microphone to start talking about driving and listening to Gentle Moon.

• 1:01:43Andy Greenwald?

  Which you did before there was a microphone.

• 1:01:45Chris Ryan?

  I did.

• 1:01:45Andy Greenwald?

  So when a man meets the moment, you can't front on it.

• 1:01:47Chris Ryan?

  Any other pit news?

• 1:01:49Andy Greenwald?

  Langdon, Robbie, you know.

• 1:01:52Chris Ryan?

  Up on the roof.

• 1:01:53Andy Greenwald?

  It's a weird moment to shout at each other. They should get a podcast, you know, work it out the way modern men do. I don't think Robbie's wrong. You know, I, I, I think that we, we.

• 1:02:03Chris Ryan?

  They may have wanted to try and make that decision before Langdon came back, but obviously.

• 1:02:07Andy Greenwald?

  But also he thought he was on the way out and he, and, and his, it was interesting to see Robbie's coaching style not work for all players anymore.

• 1:02:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Andy Greenwald?

  You know, cause he was, Langdon was freezing up. Some people, maybe it's new school, like Gen Z's sensitive snowflake stuff, but you want to be lifted up. You don't want to be put on the spot like that.

• 1:02:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I guess we can wrap it up there.

• 1:02:30Andy Greenwald?

  I, I guess. Any couple other things just to throw out to you?

• 1:02:32Chris Ryan?

  Please, please.

• 1:02:34Andy Greenwald?

  Santos lingering on some scarring on her leg?

• 1:02:37Chris Ryan?

  Yes, she's cutting, a cutter.

• 1:02:38Andy Greenwald?

  Cutting perhaps? We don't really know the full story there. The Chekhov's deaf patient stressing me out.

• 1:02:49Andy Greenwald?

  Speaking of Santos, like, I feel like-

• 1:02:52Chris Ryan?

  Not a great match between patient and doctor, I don't think. Like Santos is being kind of beleaguered and needing to move through some stuff.

• 1:03:00Andy Greenwald?

  Also, the speed with which a lot of things get done, once you actually enter the ER, you know, you're out in triage or waiting for a long time, but then, once you get in, usually they got a free up the beds and she's really seems to have an unlimited stay.

• 1:03:11Chris Ryan?

  Well, this is the crazy thing about this season is they've got several people-

• 1:03:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 1:03:14Chris Ryan?

  -who are kind of squatting, you know, they've got Digby, the homeless guy, they've got Roxy, the terminal cancer patient-

• 1:03:22Andy Greenwald?

  Who doesn't want to leave.

• 1:03:23Chris Ryan?

  And they had the prisoner, who was gonna get fed, but is, I think, going up to another bed.

• 1:03:28Andy Greenwald?

  Do you have any takes on Roxy?

• 1:03:31Chris Ryan?

  I'll be honest, it's a kind of like a hard thing for me to watch. It's not my, like, preferred storyline. You know, this is another plotline where I'm like, what's also happening here? That I think I will also, that I think what is actually happening is exactly what we're watching.

• 1:03:45Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 1:03:45Chris Ryan?

  But I'm like, why is she keep trying to not go home?

• 1:03:48Andy Greenwald?

  That's the thing about the show.

• 1:03:49Chris Ryan?

  That's TV brain.

• 1:03:50Andy Greenwald?

  No, but it's, again, they have that brain.

• 1:03:52Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:53Andy Greenwald?

  So this storyline could be exactly what it appears to be. That her husband is too solicitous, too kind, has given up too much of himself, and she has hit her breaking point-

• 1:04:04Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:04:04Andy Greenwald?

  -where she does not want to be treated this way, or to be in a mausoleum of her own home, or whatever the case may be. Or, and they know it as well as we do, is there something ominous lurking?

• 1:04:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, I think the reason why I'm even like wandering off into what's wrong with Aleshimi and what did the husband do, is because the opening few episodes did have a couple of zags of like, you think this guy's sick, but it's actually his wife.

• 1:04:29Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, remember that?

• 1:04:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, so it's like, it'll play around with that, but I think, once we get into the real fire of going analog, which this episode ends with like the-

• 1:04:40Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, that's nuts. The CEO shows up, Trent Norris. CEO Trent Norris. Some people are born to be CEOs.

• 1:04:47Chris Ryan?

  That's true.

• 1:04:48Andy Greenwald?

  Wearing his little pink shorts.

• 1:04:50Chris Ryan?

  Yes, because he was at a July 4th party.

• 1:04:51Andy Greenwald?

  Didn't wanna, we don't know that. That just could be what he wears.

• 1:04:55Chris Ryan?

  I think the idea is that he has been ripped from his grill.

• 1:04:59Andy Greenwald?

  Disagree. I think he is a fun CEO.

• 1:05:01Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:01Andy Greenwald?

  And he always dresses in bright colors and shorts.

• 1:05:04Chris Ryan?

  Mr. Kaiser Permanente. He's always wearing a orange shirt.

• 1:05:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, when Pac Roche was CEO of the Sixers and he's just like, I'm like you.

• 1:05:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:05:10Andy Greenwald?

  I wear shorts.

• 1:05:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, see you guys at TGA Fridays.

• 1:05:12Andy Greenwald?

  It'll be fun. Yeah, that was wild. That was a, so here we go. Not that we weren't already going.

• 1:05:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Thank God they have Jack Abbott on the fucking, on the clock now. The night shift came in early, brother.

• 1:05:25Andy Greenwald?

  What, before we go, and you could punt this the next week if you want, but like, what would be the craziest off-hours thing for you to choose to do? And honestly, I think you'd do it because you just admitted on this podcast that in your downtime, you fired up a rewatch of 000. But this dude is a night-shifted, emergency-room doctor who, in order to chill out during the day, goes on SWAT team raids.

• 1:05:50Chris Ryan?

  Do you know what it would be, honestly?

• 1:05:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, talk about it.

• 1:05:52Chris Ryan?

  If I took down scores? If during my off-hours, I was actually really about this life and was robbing banks?

• 1:05:59Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 1:05:59Chris Ryan?

  And then I came back in and potted about movies I like that rob, where banks get robbed.

• 1:06:04Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, someone just sold that idea. Why didn't you keep that?

• 1:06:08Chris Ryan?

  Bat podcaster?

• 1:06:09Andy Greenwald?

  No, the like, the rewatchables-esque podcaster who then commits crimes inspired by the lifestyle of the criminals in the movies that he has unusual insight into. You wanna, you wanna go half on that?

• 1:06:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you go half, I get a piece.

• 1:06:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, you can get a touch. You can get a taste. Can I get your life rights? Because travel baseball, I just pre-sold that to Amazon Prime.

• 1:06:33Chris Ryan?

  Travel baseball, Sicario.

• 1:06:36Andy Greenwald?

  Where a 15-year-old catcher, in his downtime.

• 1:06:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:42Andy Greenwald?

  In flip-flops.

• 1:06:44Chris Ryan?

  Is Josh Brolin from Sicario.

• 1:06:45Andy Greenwald?

  Is also Josh Brolin from Sicario.

• 1:06:47Chris Ryan?

  Uh, gotta wrap it up there.

• 1:06:49Andy Greenwald?

  I guess so.

• 1:06:50Chris Ryan?

  Thanks to Kai McMullin. Thanks to Kai, uh, thanks to everybody. We'll be back on Monday, season finale of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms and the penultimate episode of Industry.

• 1:06:59Andy Greenwald?

  I mean.

• 1:07:00Chris Ryan?

  Some fun guests coming up. Shorzy's back. I am going to make you watch the first episode of the new season of Shorzy. It is the funniest thing I have seen since Eastbound and Down.

• 1:07:09Andy Greenwald?

  That's big words. I'm always willing to do things you suggest.

• 1:07:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:14Andy Greenwald?

  Do you want to follow up?

• 1:07:15Chris Ryan?

  I am always willing to do things you suggest, except watch animated films.

• 1:07:19Andy Greenwald?

  There it is. Just to leave people on a cliffhanger.

• 1:07:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:23Andy Greenwald?

  You think it's still drizzling out there?

• 1:07:24Chris Ryan?

  Yes, I do. I don't think we're gonna get, I don't think we're gonna walk out into brilliant sunshine.

• 1:07:29Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. Wish us luck. This might be our last pod. Hope you brought your snorkel.

• 1:07:42Chris Ryan?

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